The Sabrina Zohar Show - 43: When and how to define the relationship, “what are we” conversation and milestones in dating!

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina talks solo about when and how to define the relationship, “what are we” conversation and milestones in dating! She answers questions like: Timeline to date before committing? Insecure in relationship vs single? How to figure out which to pick when dating multiple people? and so much more! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Please support our sponsors! Want to shop Softwear? Get 20% off your first order with code- DOTHEWORK Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room. Running a business means moving in many directions all the time. TD's new small business banking accounts are built for how your business moves. It's how we're making banking more human. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Do the Work Podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohar, and I am your host. I'm so excited to be back for another solo, my babes.

Yay! I love it, I love it. And yeah, I mean, just this week, I think you guys ask about this all the fucking time. Like, what are we? How do you define the relationship? How do you have the what are we conversation? What are milestones? When should I have these conversations? So I'm here to clear it all up.

I'm here to give you some love. I'm here to give you some tough love. And a little bit of a pep talk, if you will. So I hope you guys like today's episode. I hope for anybody, this is the day after the live event. I hope anybody who came, God, thank you, thank you. I'm praying that we're going to be able to do a lot of live events next year. but the only way I'll be able to do that is if you guys rate the fucking podcast.

Please fucking rate the podcast. The amount of you that listen that do not rate, I can tell, I can do math. I love you guys. You know I love you. But if you want me to come to your city, this is the only way I can is by sharing it with your friends so that we can assemble the girls and the boys and get the teams out and leaving a review so I can give on the podcast. Because if I can't, then people won't sponsor or take, you know, even a look.

So if you're on Apple, go to the bottom. You can leave a review. And if you're on Spotify, you just press three dots. You can auto download the episodes, it really help. everything just helps me get higher and higher on the ratings, and that's the only way I'll be able to bring you guys more episodes. So, as always, if you guys need anything, link in the show notes, please support the sponsors. We've got open, we've got article, we've got miracle brand. We've got some incredible people. We have software my own brand. And it's just going to be an

amazing show. And I'm so excited for you guys to have this week's episode. And as always, if you need anything, link in show notes. You can always contact me. I'm always here for you guys. So without further ado, let's get right on into it. And also, don't forget, if you don't follow Do the work podcast and Instagram, I put in question boxes there. And a lot of the questions you guys asked are used on the podcast. So if you want to be able to ask a question and have it answered, you could pop it in there. Don't forget to follow. All right. Love you guys. And without further ado, let's get right on into it. Part two. This time we're actually going to get into it. This episode is brought to you by software. That's right. That's my clothing company, babes.

I started softer after my mom got six. She went to the doctor with a headache. And they found six brain aneurysms that corroded the top half of her vessel. And I almost lost my mom in 2017. And I started the company the day after her successful surgery because I wanted to give back. I wanted to do something I cared about. I created a fabric that was nothing like the market had. It's cozy. It's comfortable. It's sustainably made.

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And you use the code do the work. you get 20% off your first purchase. And I am just so excited for you guys to get, get, oh, so cozy with me and match in a beautiful software set. Hi, friends. We are here for another week. And by the time this comes out, we would have been done with the live podcast event in L.A.

And I just, oh, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. And I hope to have so many more, so many more to come. Doing live events and getting into the community is one of my passions. So I'm really, really hopeful to be able to come and visit more of you guys in other cities. But until then, today we are talking about when and how to define the relationship, how to have the what are we conversation and milestones in dating. Because I think it's super important to talk about a lot of things and kind of go over this because I think a lot of you guys ask

constantly like, when do I have the what are we conversation? How should I have it? How do I do? So I've got an entire list of questions that you guys wrote in and I am going to fucking tackle this today. And I'm so excited. As always, guys, I just want to thank everybody so much for the love and support. you haven't already, I am begging you to please leave a review and rate the podcast. You just have to click on Spotify, the three dots and rate the show. Please leave five stars if you think it's worth that. And on Apple, you just scroll all the way to the bottom and you can leave a review. And please don't leave a one-star review just because you don't like the speed at which I speak. It's really fucked and it really hurts our podcast. So, but other than that, I'm always here for honest

feedback and I want to make sure you guys are supported. So I appreciate that. And yeah, like I always, if you need anything, you could work with me one-on-one or ask me a question. Tech Eye and our doing dating up audits. We're creating some courses. The podcast is going to be videos soon. So many fun things upcoming and I'm excited. So let's dive into it, shall we? So when and how to define the relationship and the what argument conversation? So I'm going to start off by saying, overall, I don't have specific hard fast timelines. I'm not like, okay, it's been exactly two months, which means this needs to happen. Because at the end of the day, like there are milestones in dating, but everyone's going to have different milestones.

Everyone's going to have different timing that these milestones hit, and everyone's going to have different experiences in dating. But overall, kind of the way I look at this is like, in the perfect world, there is no such thing as a bullshit talking stage. So let's like spare ourselves some time and stop wasting time with people who are wasting our time. If you are talking to somebody for two, three, four, five, six, seven weeks, and you've never met and this is all just,

we're quote unquote, getting to know each other. You're wasting your fucking time because you're not, actually getting to know somebody via text. You all know I'm going to die on this hill. You're not getting to know somebody via text. You get to know somebody by spending time with them in person. Then that kind of comes into the, okay, well, how much time do I spend with somebody before I establish that I want a relationship with them? Again, subjective. But overall, I would ask you this question. How long does it take for you to get to know somebody? It takes time. And I think for most of my anxious attachers, that's the biggest struggle is, well, how long is it's going to take and what's going on?

And I need to know an answer and I need to have, I don't want to make sure that I'm not going to be abandoned. And I think a lot of the times people lead into the what are we conversation by anxiety, by saying, I want to quell my anxiety. I want to make sure this person's not going to leave. I want to make sure that this person's going to stay. I don't want to be, I don't want to keep dating. All the narrative that we all know happened.

So let's not like try to pretend as if this is anything fucking new that I'm telling you guys. But I think that is something that I want you guys to start kind of sitting in. So like when this anxiety starts to come up of like, what are we and where are we going? It's like, okay, so here's some guidelines. So let's say you have a first date with somebody. On that first date, if you are asking questions of depth, like, hey, so how's your last relationship and wanted to teach you about yourself, understanding who this person is, getting to know them. Hey, do you have the time and the bandwidth for a relationship? Is that something that you can actually handle right now? What kind of relationship would work for

you? What would make sense for you? Things like that. You're just getting to know this person. Do you want marriage and kids? It doesn't have to be a fucking boop, boop, boop, boop, like a bullet of questions, but it's important to understand where somebody is, what their bandwidth is, and if they can even have a relationship with you. Because realistically speaking, like, when I met Tech Guy, we dated, we saw each other twice week every single week. He actually asked me to be exclusive. I wasn't ready to do that.

I wasn't ready to even have that conversation because for me, I was like, I barely know this guy. Like, we've had some fun. We had great sex. Like, that was the extent of the relationship that I knew from him. So for me, when he kind of approached me about it, I was. I was like, okay, cool, like we're having this conversation, but it wasn't like I was dying for an answer because I had released control of the outcome.

So when I started to date him, I wasn't looking at it like, oh, my God, but he's going to abandon me and I haven't heard from him and he hasn't called me. It was just very like, okay, hey, we're going to see what happens. I'm building a life. I live my life. I love my life. I'm building new friends. I'm building a new career.

I was just excited about what was to come. And so I think that's like to start. It's like, I think when we're talking about dating and getting into it, I want you to enter in with a healthy and positive mindset of, I don't know what's going to happen. This could be an incredible relationship or this could be somebody that I just meet for one or two times and I never see them again. By not attaching to the outcome, which was last week's episode, was that last week? No, the week before, I don't even fucking remember what day it is, that Masha and I went over.

That way, you're at least understanding what your intentions are entering in. And so to me, I think when you're kind of dating somebody, it's important to know your own priorities, your own non-negotiables, your own boundaries, what is it, what kind of relationship do you want? So if you're saying, I want one of depth and I want my ride or die and I want that person that's going to be by my side, it's like, okay, so what does that mean? It's going to take you time to establish if this person can do those things, right? You have to see, so somebody actually had asked the question, do you believe in seasonal dating? It's like the four seasons of dating. I think it's actually quite brilliant because the whole point of it is that you see people in

different environments. And so I think when you're first starting to date, one of the questions was at what point in dating should you start thinking about defining the relationship. So I think when you first enter into the dating world, what's important to look out of here is making sure I know what it is that I want. I know what my intentions are and I'm very clear about that. Great. Once that's the baseline, then it's about not, I don't give a fuck how you, how they see you. I could give a shit what someone's opinion of me is. Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and sit. Play. Post. Taste.

View and enjoy. Via Rail, love the way. Someone's opinion of me is none of my business. Realistically speaking, so for me, after a date, I would always ask, how did I feel when I was with this person? Did I feel seen, heard and understood? Did I feel there was reciprocity? Did I feel this person asking questions about me?

Were they curious? When I asked questions to them, were they giving me answers back? So I think before we can even talk about exclusivity and things like that and what are we going, where is this going and what's happening, we need to establish off the bat how you feel with this person. And I think that's the biggest kind of issue I see is so many people are so concerned with, well, what do they think and what do they want and how do they feel? Nobody has ever stopped. Not nobody. I take that back. A lot of people haven't stopped to say, well, how do I feel? What's coming up for me? Because if we stop and kind of touch base with ourselves, then like I had done,

you go, you know what, actually, I've never like gone away with this person. I've never met this person. I've never met one of their friends. I know nothing about them outside of this. And I actually asked tech guy, I said, what's your best advice for people that are looking to define the relationship? And he said, make sure you know how this person is in different environments. Do not go on the same date twice. So don't just keep having dinner dates with this person.

And then after two dates, being like, oh, my God, they're amazing and they're incredible. And I want to be their girlfriend or boyfriend. And I have to lock this down. It's like, no, what you're doing then is just running after a fantasy because you don't know who the fuck this person is just because you've gone to dinner with them. I, okay, we all know I love 90 Day Fiancee. Have you guys not watched that? Have we watched it yet?

Because then you'll start to understand what I mean by like, you only know somebody via FaceTime and text and a couple of dinners to a certain extent. Then that's what the show, that's why I love the show so much. The people will go and be like, I don't understand. Who is this person? All I said was this. It's like, oh, you mean, how were they when they got triggered? How were they when they got dysregulated?

Like, were they controlling? Were they immature? Were they? How were they? So all of these things need to be thought about before you start to even consider if you want a relationship with this person. So you can see what I mean by understanding yourself is the first step to me of defining the relationship so that you can check in with yourself to say, what is it that I want with this person? Because then I would start to say, what do you know about this person to validate that? So if you're saying, oh, I want a relationship with them and it's been two dates.

What the fuck do you know about this person? You mean all the shiny things that they want you to see about themselves? But if I were to say, well, are they thoughtful, compassionate, empathetic? Do they, are they selfless? Are they a team? Then you would, well, how are you going to fucking answer that? By saying, well, what? We had a couple of dates.

So off the bat, I think for me, above the like seven to 10 date range is when I would start to say that you can really start to figure out what kind of connection you guys have. Because it's less about a specific timeline and more about the depth of the connection. You know? Like, if you're thinking about this person, you're investing emotional energy, it's, it's, It's the time that's when you can start to realize, huh, yeah. I've been kind of dating multiple people and I kind of keep coming back to this person because I really enjoy myself with them.

I really enjoy what they have to offer. They're incredibly secure. I feel really seen hurt and understood. I feel really accepted. Okay. This is somebody that I want to explore. Great. But I think that's like the missing link here so often is it's just jumping into like, I get

emails of like, we went on two dates and the person asked me to be exclusive. Oh my God. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? You don't know this person. And then we can't be so shocked when it's like, it didn't work out or they were this or they were that. It's like no shit.

Because if you, that's like buying a house without an inspection or sight unseen. You start lifting the fucking veil. You start getting into the walls and realizing there's termites and there's the roofing that needs to be redone and the floors are awful because outside it looks shiny and new, but you don't know what's happening inside. So that's kind of my first thing. So when it comes to the what are we conversation, the biggest thing to remember. the biggest thing to remember is you are not asking permission from somebody.

So I get this all the time of like, should I wait for the guy to make the move? Should I wait for them to say anything? And usually where that comes from is I'm like, oh, are you scared of rejection? Are you scared to hear the truth? Because like Case Kenny said, you'll get what you want or you'll get what you need. You'll get what you want, which is them in the relationship, or you'll get what you need, which is clarity. This is how we avoid situationships.

Because if you're, let's call it here, if you're so scared, whoever is listening, If that person is so scared to speak up and say how they feel and have a conversation of like, hey, I like you. I've really been enjoying this. Like we're having a great time. You know, how are you feeling? If you're scared to do that, good luck having a relationship. Because a relationship is one giant conversation.

That is essentially what a relationship is. And what happens? We need to have tough conversations. And like, I eat my tongue. I bite my tongue all the time. But I also eat my shit and my word all the time. Like even just before this, I had a shitty call before I came out to record and, tech guy just got in the crossfires. I got angry. I was upset about something. Definitely

shouldn't have been as upset about it. And he came in and he was like, hey, what's going on? And he said, how can I support you? And I said, you know what? I was misdirected. I apologize. I did not mean to put that on to you. That's on me. So it's having those eating humble pie and saying, I'm not perfect. It's not all about me. I need to communicate. So we need to start communicating with the people that we date so that you can actually see if this person could be a partner for you and could be somebody for you. So that's like kind of off the bat. My bigger thing here is I don't, I want you to omit from your vocabulary. What are we? Where are we going? Where are things going? Because a part of this is like I do, I have the unlimited texting and I got a lot of clients that I work with individually.

And I almost all of them have this in common where it's like maybe three or four dates in, anywhere between like three to five to seven dates. And there's this like fucking panic of like, well, I need to know what's going on and I need to know where this is going and I need to know I'm sure you're going to make sure I'm not wasting my time and it's like when you're living in that anxiety because you're coming from that space of a little child that needs to be reassured, not an adult. What happens is you miss out on the magic of dating. You're missing out on this experience of what you're learning from this person. You're missing out on all of these moments that you can learn about yourself because you're so focused on the outcome and I have to make it, I don't want to be abandoned.

You don't get fucking abandoned in your adult life. Can I just, let's just call it what it is. You're not getting abandoned. You're not, when you're, the fear of quote unquote rejection, the fear of a deep rooted fear of being judged for who you are. But how could you be judged by who you for who you are, by somebody that you want on one or two dates with? That, you know, like I had a client right in.

She's like, the guy asked me to be exclusive after one date and I ended it like, was that okay? And I'm like, yeah, no, what you did was stand up for yourself. I was like, you didn't have to end. Like, you know, she obviously said because he didn't want to hear anything of it. And it's like, yeah, but that's okay for you to say, well, that doesn't work for me. Just because somebody is interested in you doesn't mean that they have the right intentions. You want to know how to fucking avoid a love bomber? Stop, slow it the fuck down. Get to know this person

authentically before you jump into, I want them to be my partner. Because then also you're going to freak the fuck out of somebody that's more secure that's going, whoa, I don't know this person. Because you can tell when it comes from anxiety. You can feel that. So I think when it comes to like, when is the right time? I actually asked tech guy. I was like, listen, you're more avoidance. right? I was like, what's a good time? And he said, think about setting and setting the set. It's a lot of sets. And he was like, think about it. You want to make sure that this person's in the right headspace and environment. So like, you're not going to want to have the what are we conversation right after you have sex because you have all these chemicals and hormones and oxytocin and things

running through. You don't want to do it then in a moment where after the person goes, oh my God, wait, what was I thinking? I was just so caught up in the moment. You want to have somebody with a clear fucking mind. And so it's like, I had another client. She, the guy had asked her for something and they were like wasted at a friend's party. And I was like, hmm, we were doing our one-on-one. And she was like, yeah, I don't know that was the best time. And I was like, yeah, you think?

Like, you were around a bunch of friends. The guy kind of felt pressured. He said yes. And they like woke up the next morning and it was like a whole to do. And it's like, I don't want you to get into that. Do not have this conversation inebriated. Do not have this conversation like intimately after sex. Have it when you're out to dinner.

when it's a beautiful night, when it's a nice setting, and it's really about called the reveal. It's called the reveal. And what does that mean? You are telling this person what it is that you want and seeing if what you want matches what they want. There's a creator I love on Insta, and he always says, it's like the bus driver. The bus driver's not asking you where you're going when you get on the bus. The bus driver's telling you, we're going here. If you want to come great.

And if you don't get the fuck off my bus. So let's look at it the same way. You are not asking for permission from somebody to decide. kind of relationship that you want. But if you don't know what it is that you want, you don't know what it is that you need, then that's why you're not going to be able to ask for it. It's because if you're so far from it, you don't know what it is that you even need or want. So the next question I got, which was really interesting, was what if the person you're dating

says they're not interested in defining the relationship? And now this is a great question. Because now, let's see. So the way that you're going to do this, how you even have this conversation, how you broach this fucking conversation. Remember always asking for consent. Hey, can I share something with you? Yeah, what's up? Yeah, what's up? If it's a guy. And it's just, you know, I've really, like, kind of what tech I did to me. I've done this many a times. I've been like, listen, I've been really enjoying our time. I really enjoy getting to know you. You're great. I'm having a good time.

I don't want to date anybody else. I'd love to delete the apps and really just focus on you and see if we have anything here. See how, like, simple that could be of just being straight to the point. I think what most people are is they're scared of hearing the response. They're scared of hearing the answer. Now, there's a difference between someone saying, I don't know if I want a relationship overall, very different than someone saying, like what I said to tech guy, which was, I'm not ready to do that yet. Now, let's also specify, there is a very big difference between becoming exclusive in dating and then becoming someone's boyfriend or girlfriend. Now, I'll explain what that means. Exclusive in dating just means, like, when you start dating,

that first month or two, you're dating other people. Like, unless you live, if you live in a major city, you are dating significantly more people than obviously people that are living in smaller town. So if you're living in a smaller town, you and I both know as well, yes, of course, it's going to, it's going to be more limited. But more often than not, people on dating apps are dating multiple people. And I had one client, she got upset with a guy because after their first date, he was like, I have another date. Like I'm, she asked him, she's like, are you seeing other people? He's like, yeah, I don't really know you. And she was like, well, I don't want that. I want someone that's sure about me. And it's like, what the fuck? Like, this person literally has no idea who you are,

you want him to be sure about you? Like, you see what I mean by like, the pinch doesn't match the ouch in that regard? So it's like, okay, that to me, I would be running the other way. But like when tech guy asked me to like go exclusive, I was like, okay, yeah. I was like, all right, cool. What does that mean? And he was like, that just means that we're going to delete hinge and not date other people

so that we can actually see if we have a shot here. Okay, cool. Because at the end of the day, after we had dated for like almost two months or like a month and a half, I was like, yeah, listen, I'm ready to like not date other people and really just focus on this. That didn't mean I was his girlfriend. Because what the girlfriend title is is, what are we doing this weekend? Starting to think about future plans and incorporating each other.

Hey, do you want to come to this wedding with me? My friend is a birthday this weekend. Let's go together. When you're someone's partner, you're creating a partnership. So if somebody just asks to be exclusive, what you're telling this person is, I just want to date you and see if we have something here without outside buzz. Without other people, without other women or men, without other shit in the, the shit hitting the fucking rearview mirror.

I just want to focus on you. That, you do that after like a month, month and a half. But again, if you're seeing each other consistently, if you're seeing each other twice a week and you're really getting to know this person and you're like, fuck, this guy is fucking awesome or man, this girl's great. I don't want to see anyone else. I'm happy to delete the apps. Then you date for another two or three months to then establish, okay, we've been dating

for four or five months. Let's be in a relationship together. If somebody, after like a month, if somebody says, listen, I are like you, I just want to kind I don't know if that I'm ready to get exclusive. Get curious and be like, okay, well, what's coming up for you? Is it that you just want to date other people? Because if you're unsure about me, you know, two months in, I don't know that I want to continue.

But if it's somebody after a couple of weeks, it's like, yeah, I'm not ready to fucking delete the apps yet. Like, I just met you. It's like, let's, the pinch has to match the out here. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa. is like playing Russian roulette with a flame thrower.

Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. So I'm always a big proponent of getting curious before making assumptions. Because I think so often we're so quick to jump into, you know, oh, they must just not like me and they want to keep fucking other people. And it's like, no, I didn't, I didn't want to fuck other people. That's not why I told tech guy I wasn't ready.

I wasn't ready because I didn't want to get into another relationship that was going to be a dead end with somebody that I wasn't really like into. And I wanted to make sure that I saw him around a couple of his friends. I wanted to see him around some of my friends. And so it's really important to understand those are milestones as well. And so somebody had actually asked, what do you consider the anniversary? For me, I consider it the first date. But that's just me. Because I don't remember the day we became exclusive, but I remember the day we met.

And I'm like, cool, let's just celebrate that. So TechEye and I have her one year anniversary. And I'm like, but it's the day that we met because that's what started this journey. That's to me kind of how I do it. You could do whatever the fuck you want. But I think when it comes to just overall a timeline for this, I want you to make sure that you genuinely like this person for who they are and not for who you want them to be. I want you to make sure that you've seen this person in different environment, dating it for different seasons. That's kind of the point.

I've now been with TechEye for a year. I've seen him throughout a lot of fun. fucking things. I've seen him with the world practically ending. I've seen him when I hurt myself. I've seen him how he is when he's with my family. I've been around his. Now is the time where it's like, yeah, okay, we're fucking like, we're in this. But it even took me five months to become his girlfriend because I was like, I don't know you. I want you to open up. That was very different than I don't know if I want a relationship in general. I knew I wanted a relationship. I just wanted to make sure I wanted one with him. So I think that's super important. And I think somebody had asked,

how do you figure out what to pick when dating multiple people? And I think at the end of the day, it's about understanding is this person, what are your boundaries and non-negotiables? Because if you're dating multiple people, like, I was dating multiple people and so was tech guy. And the reason we kept kind of coming back to each other was we were like, we were just really liked each other. And it was the type of thing where I was like, no, I'm having fun. I leave feeling secure versus other guys where I was like, they're not being consistent. They're not being reciprocal. This person's like, we had one date and then he would take like, and then all of a sudden it was like all these excuses and then some mental health stuff. And I was just like, yeah, unsubscribe. I don't want a

project. I want a partner. I want somebody that is doing the work on themselves while I'm doing the work on myself and we come together. We create and we co-create and we co-create a beautiful relationship. I don't need somebody that is so far off and so fucking unhealthy and super toxic still like, I'm not interested in that shit. Go do your thing. Go find somebody else. That doesn't work for me. I don't need it. And so when you're kind of trying to figure out like between people, start getting in touch with your body and your feelings. What do you like about this person? How do you feel when you're with them?

How do you feel around their friends and family? Do you feel they're consistent? That you see what I mean by like, you see how it's going to take time to figure all this stuff out? You're in no fucking rush. You're in no rush. Obviously, listen, when it comes to sleeping with somebody, yeah, of course you can have the conversation of like,

well, first of all, you should be using condoms. I don't know why it's like kids have like a temper tantrum about kids, people, men have like a temper tantrum about using them. but fucking use protection if you are dating somebody, okay? First off, second of all, if you've been sleeping together for like, if you more than just once, you know, if like if you've slept together like two or three times and this person wants to keep seeing you,

of course you can say, listen, I just want to make sure if we're sleeping with other people that you're using protection or that we're just sleeping with each other. I'm not asking for you to be my boyfriend, but for safety reasons. I just want to make sure that like if we're going to sleep with other people, please just use protection because I want to make sure I keep myself safe as well. But there are no guarantees. Nobody can guarantee that anything is going to happen just because you say that.

You know what I mean? But it's like, be safe. So that is kind of my thing there. Now, how do you progress from exclusivity to a relationship? It's the same way you get to exclusivity. You spend time with this person, have conversations with this person. Hey, I really like you. This has been so great.

You're fucking awesome. And I just excited to see what happens. Hey, thanks so much for last night. That was awesome. This has been really great. I'm really enjoying things with you. I'm super excited to see where we go. Have conversations often.

Do not be scared about showing interest. I think a lot of people are scared because I want to be rejected. It's like, okay, so you think just keeping it inside is going to help you? You know that a relationship takes vulnerability, openness, receptivity. There takes a lot. It takes a lot to be in a healthy and secure relationship. So let's not hide from that. Let's start that in the beginning so that you can make sure that this is somebody that can

actually show up for you in the ways that you want to be shown up for. otherwise if you're emotionally unavailable, well, have fun. And it's like, and I think actually somebody had asked the other day of like, how do I stop giving them girlfriend treatment when we're just dating? And I'm like, you know what that means? That sounds like you're a people pleaser. It sounds like you're trying to do everything. It's like girlfriend treat, what the fuck are you talking about?

You're not, why are you, you don't need to be buying people shit. Why are you introducing them to friends and family? You don't need to bend over backwards. But like making somebody dinner or hosting them at your home, that's not girlfriend treatment. That's part of dating. And I think what I really get is like, trust yourself. If you feel you're being taken advantage from somebody and that you're giving more before they've earned it, then fucking pull back.

See how they show up for you as well, as opposed to you always trying to show up for them. And that's what I did with tech guy. I was super strict. I'm like, no, I want to make sure that we're both into this. I don't want to run after somebody. I'm not interested in that. I'm just not. And it's like, what is going slow look like?

We've talked about this on a few episodes. Going slow when you're dating to make sure that this is, the right person for you looks like not expediting stages of the relationship quicker than they need to be. So like milestones in a relationship. A first date. Yay! Mark that in your calendar. So you remember the night and where you went. And if it comes out into anything. But above that, the next milestone is like defining the relation, like when you have the, hey, I just want to be exclusive. I want to delete the apps. And then the next one after that, hey, I don't want to date anybody else. I want you to be my boyfriend or girlfriend. And then after that it could just be when you meet friends and family. Oh, man, that was a big milestone. That's huge. You met my mom. or you met my siblings, you met my dad, you met my best friend.

Those are all things to celebrate and those are all things not to take lightly. Because no, it's not expected. It's not owed. It's not any of that shit. But those are important. That's kind of like the milestones to look at. You know? And I think like when a lot of people like I think when it comes to even understanding like

defining the relationship versus anxiety with these milestones, I don't want, again, the different. between the two here ultimately is that defining the relationship is you saying, I like this person, I've seen this person in different environments, and I want to make the commitment because I don't want to date other people. I don't want to see what else is out there versus anxiety is I'm tired of dating. What if I never meet anybody else? Oh my God, but he's so hot. Oh my God, but she's so pretty. Oh my God. The anxiety comes with a narrative. The anxiety comes with a body reaction. The anxiety comes with fear of abandonment or all of this, but I'm not good enough.

And what if you found another girl and what if they're going to dump me? It's like you're so focused on what that. You're so scared and focused on the feeling you're trying to avoid that you overlook the beauty of dating. You overlook the courtship phase. You overlook the fact that you could build a beautiful connection with somebody and see if there's something here to pursue and enjoy this. Because guess what?

You're not going to get this back. You don't get the early stages back. That's the honeymoon phase. And if you're dating somebody, And you are fucking knee-deep in inconsistency. If you're having issues in the first two months, like issues, like this person doesn't call me, this person doesn't want to see me. Why are they ignoring me?

Bitch, what the fuck are you still dating this person for? Welcome to honeymoon phase. That doesn't mean that just because a person doesn't text you, you should drop them. I'm not fucking saying that. But if you're constantly begging to be seen, begging to have your needs met, begging for somebody to listen to you,

breadcrumbs, not trusting the other person, instead of focusing so hard and like, well, why aren't they defining the relationship? It's like, why don't we look at every other red flag that's been overlooked here? Because getting into a relationship isn't the ultimate goal of dating. Well, it could be, but it shouldn't be. The ultimate goal is, of course, you want to find a partner, but you also want to find yourself. You want to make sure that you find the right partner, not just a partner. And I can tell you that from personal experience.

Oh, I sure can. I, when I was like, fucking 2015, 2016, I just wanted a boyfriend. Actually, for the first few years of my New York life, I didn't care who it was with. I just wanted a boyfriend. And I, like my ex, it was an awesome, amazing human being. Not for me, though. Like, not at all for me. Great guys.

We weren't, like, actually compatible. And after the first date, we spent the night and we were inseparable ever since. And what happened was, it wasn't that there was like, yeah, of course, there were definitely red flags I overlooked. like he was an alcoholic, but not like a bad one, not like a fucking raging one, but like he had a, you could see he had a problem and I don't drink. So it was an issue. But what really happened was I didn't give time to see if this person was actually compatible with me. I was just so enamored with like, oh my God, but there's a boyfriend. Yay, I have a boyfriend. Yay, somebody chose me. Yay, I'm not going to be abandoned. And the reason that it never worked is because the reason I never felt

fulfilled was because I wasn't actually being with this person because they fulfilled me. I was with this person because they chose me. I don't want you guys to to get into a relationship with somebody because they choose you. That's implied if you're going to get into a relationship. I want you to get into a relationship with somebody because you're like, fuck, this is the person I've been waiting for. And I asked tech guy, I said, what made you think you wanted to be with me? And he was like, you're the woman I was waiting for you. He was like, I knew I had not met anybody like you and I had been looking for you for a long time. And same. Same. I knew when I heard the reason I kept dating him was because I would see those glimmers of he's super fucking rigid and very avoidant and shuts down

and keeps everything inside. And when we were dating, I started to see those glimmers. And I saw him around his friends. And I was like, they're really funny. This is why it's important. He met my friends after about two months. After two months, he met like one of my good friends. And I think he didn't meet another friend of mine until like a month after that. I knew his roommate was his best friend at the time. And then I didn't meet his friends until like a month or two after. So it was a total of like three months. But I don't want you to start like, like, people ask all the time of like, oh, well, you know, like, what do I do? Like, do I invite this person to like a big party of mine? And it's like, if you don't have clearly defined relationship here, why are you inviting somebody

just to have to go, never mind to your friends? When they're like, oh my God, well, who's that? Is it the guy you're seeing or the girl you're seeing? It's like, listen, if you don't care what your friends think, if you don't care about explaining that, then sure, if I can invite them, I don't give a shit. But if you're like, if this is a big work event and this is going to be a bunch of your clients, like when I used to have events and I was dating a guy, I was really embarrassed when it didn't work out. And my friends would be like, oh, my God, what happened to the guy from last time? I'd be like, oh, you know, another avoidant.

And it's like, no. Instead, what I wanted to do is like, I didn't invite tech guy to anything about mine until March. We had been together for five months and like, we had already been in a relationship. Prior to that, I was like, you don't get to come to any of my event. You don't get to come to any of my shit. You guys noticed I didn't start bringing him into my content until like a few months ago because I wanted to make sure that this was somebody I really wanted to be with.

And so if that could be any fucking takeaway, And it doesn't matter guy or girl who asks. I don't, I'm tired of this. It's stop waiting for other people to dictate your life. So if you like a guy and you want clarity, fucking get clarity. If you like a girl and you want to get clarity, get clarity.

Love is love. I'm tired of this. Well, the man has to do the asking. All right, bitch, what if they're two women dating? What if they're two men dating? No, when you feel something, say something. When you feel something, talk about it. Stop.

Dr. Stan said, perfectly last week. Our memory is going to be our worst enemy because we forget what happened. So in those moments, talk about it. Be honest with your partner. Hey, I don't appreciate that. I'm tired. I'm exhausted. And that was really dismissive of you. I don't appreciate that. Versus I'm going to hold it inside and I'm going to keep it in and I'm not going to say anything because I'm scared. What if I, what if I ruined something? What if I asked for exclusivity too soon and I ruin it? I'm sorry. What are you ruining? What is that? What are you ruining somebody that is going to tell you what it is that you need to hear because you don't ruin a

real connection like i said tech i wasn't that he when i said no i didn't say no i never want to date you again i just said i want to keep dating you before we make these decisions so that's what i mean by you don't ruin a real connection what you ruin is bullshit by speaking up and setting a boundary if that doesn't work for you so i don't want you to be scared of what's going to happen if i open up i want you to honor that you have feelings and you have emotions and you want to talk to somebody. But there's a but here. I also want you to check in with yourself to make sure that this isn't coming from anxiety and that this is coming from an authentic place. I want you to make sure that this is coming from a space of no, I've sat with this. I like this person. I can list out a thousand reasons I like them.

I had a client today. And we were talking, we were talking. This guy was a fucking raging narcissist by the sounds of it, but I was like, listen, I'm not going to, I'm not going to diagnose you about him. And when I finally kept saying, what do you like about him? And she would say, no, no, my needs are being met. And I said, really, which ones are they? She just started to realize, she's like, oh, I guess not. And as we started talking, she was like, fuck, I guess not. And it's like, yeah, because you were disconnected from yourself. You're so focused on him choosing you. You don't realize that you do even choose this person. What about how you feel? What about what you want? Have we ever thought about that?

because then once you're in a relationship, guess what? Guess what starts then, the real work? The real work starts when you get into a relationship, not up into the dating. I think there's a fucking common misconception that once I get into a relationship, everything's going to be great. And I'll be fine and my anxiety's going to go away. Baby, get ready to be triggered, left, right, and fucking center. Get ready to go, oh my God.

Oh, my God. I really thought I was further along. I was talking to my friend the other day. Got into a relationship and he was like, bitch, I thought I healed. and he was like, fuck. The minute I started dating this girl, he was like, all of my skeletons are in the closet. It's like, there's nothing wrong with that.

That doesn't mean that you haven't healed. What that means is a relationship will trigger you. That's why I'm saying, be sure you know who you're getting into a relationship with before you get into a fucking relationship with this person. And if you're going to do it out of anxiety, good fucking luck with this relationship then, because you're doing yourself a disservice.

And I don't want you to do that. So I think what's really important here is to get in touch with yourself before you have conversations with people, to make sure that you are in touch with you and you know what it is that you want to need so that you can feel fulfilled in this entire relationship. And not six months later like, again, 90-day fiancé. There's this one couple and she's in the Philippines and he's this like American dude. And she's so anxious. It actually makes me uncomfortable like hearing her. I'm like, I'm starting to get like overheated and little like upset by this.

And she was so focused on him choosing her that then she all of a sudden started to get to know him. And she's like, he's lazy. He doesn't do anything around the house, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, you started to get to know this person. You so badly wanted them to choose you because she was so scared of being abandoned. It had nothing to do with him. She then, she was unhappy. Why do you think so many people when they rush into shit?

Why do you think divorce has happened so fucking often? It's because people aren't genuinely getting to know this person half the time. They're just going, oh, well, there's somebody here. At least don't have to be alone, right? Grandma Lucy used to say this. Better to be alone than in bad company. I'd so much rather be alone. I'd so much rather tell somebody how I feel and them tell me,

I'm sorry, I don't feel that, than me kid myself and get into a situation ship because I'm scared to fucking ask. I'm scared to open up. I'm scared to tell this person because I'm scared I'm going to lose them. You're not losing mom or dad. This is some schmo you don't even know. So let's take them off the pedestal and start seeing that.

So, guys, I hope that that was helpful. I hope I was able to clarify a lot of. things about the how to have this. Remember, it's the reveal. You're just saying, hey, this is how I feel about you, and this is what I want. And you're seeing if it matches. It's okay if they say no. Inquire. Do you mean you don't want a relationship with me or you don't want one in general? Let's get curious as opposed to shutting down and being taking it personally and feeling so rejected. It's like, God, breakups usually have nothing to do with us. Sometimes they do, of course. Sometimes some people are just fucking off their rocker. But a lot of the times it's how we get triggered by

other people. Less than there's some, because oftentimes it could be, you have to remember, if you dated somebody and they're saying, hey, your anxiety is a lot for me. They're not saying you're a lot for me. Your anxiety could be a lot for them. Or, hey, I like this, you like that. How is that personal against you? That just means that you guys aren't compatible.

So let's start like removing that. Let's remove the fear. And if you're scared to open up and you're scared to have a conversation with somebody, sit with that. What are you so scared of? You're going to lose them? Okay. So what's so different than before you met them?

Because you were good before them. you'll be good after. Again, when you face your fucking fears and say, I'm not scared of being abandoned. I'm not scared of being abandoned because I'm not being abandoned. You know what's, when it's scarier, you self-abandoning. You self-abandoning what it is that you want need and desire for somebody else because you want to make them more comfortable and you don't want to rock the boat. No, babes. So I want you to make sure that if you're dating somebody, and listen, if you've been dating someone for six months and they're still saying that they don't want to be exclusive or they don't want a relationship, you're getting played. Then I would say, what the fuck are you guys

talking about every other day. I'm sorry, six, eight, ten months and this person doesn't want to commit to you or they want to still fuck other people, take the rose-colored glasses off. So let's find a balance here. It's not going to be after two dates that you're going to be exclusive with this person, but it also shouldn't be six months later that you guys start to have these conversations. So just being cognizant of timelines, I think will be very helpful. But also, you know what I want you guys to be cognizant of?

Are you having a good time? Are you enjoying getting to know this person? Are you living your fucking life? Because it's normal to feel anxious. It's normal to feel a little like, oh, what's going to happen? I don't know. Yeah, because you're a fucking human. That's normal.

But it doesn't need to dictate your life and it doesn't need to take over. It's okay. If they break up with you or they don't want to be with you or you say, it's okay, you will meet other people. Let me ask you a question. Is this the first heartbreak you've ever had? Is this the only person you've ever been into? I'm going to go ahead and probably say,

probably not. So that's kind of, that's kind of my point here is like, you're not going to miss what's for you and you're going to meet other people. There are going to be plenty of other connections you can explore.

So do not rush into it. Do not fucking after two dates to ask somebody to be your girlfriend. Just enjoy the fucking journey and listen to your gut. If it comes out one night, great, go with the conversation. But I want you guys to also

get really excited about what's to come. Because if it's not this person, don't worry. You'll find somebody else. You'll meet somebody else. There's castles for the car. Baby, there's almost 9 million, 9 billion people. What am I talking about? 9 billion fucking people.

All right. So one on emotionally unavailable guy or girl isn't for you. It's okay, baby. You'll meet other people. So I love you guys. I love you. Thank you for everything. And until next week, guys, like I always say,

if you need anything, link in bio. and not a link in bio good morning it's the podcast not tic-tok well it is tic-tok but not the podcast you know i'm saying um is uh the lincoln show notes if you need anything if you want to work with me you want to ask me any questions anything is all there and i love you guys so much and thank you for another incredible week