The Sabrina Zohar Show - 54: The Neuroscience of imposter syndrome, ruminating/spiraling thoughts, closure and more with Alexis Fernandez!

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina is joined by Neuroscientist and host of Do you f*cking mind Alexis Fernandez to talk about the neuroscience of imposter syndrome, ruminating/spiraling thoughts, closure and so much more!! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina and I am your host. Guys, I am amped for today. First of all, bonus episode. We love bonus episodes. And I'm committed to every month in this year in the month of, in the month of you, in the year of 2024 to give you guys an extra bonus episode every month. Now, do you want more?

Don't worry, babes. We're going to give it because the new year is bringing courses, which I'm going to have ready for Valentine's Day. so for everybody we're going to be able to support you. And also going to be doing bonus content with Tech Guy. And so we're going to have a subscription where you could add free and two to four bonus episodes a month where we're going to have like live call-ins and live profile reads and answering Q&As and listening to stories and doing all that fun and getting like some real one-on-one with me and tech guy to help you guys. So I'm amped for all of that.

So stay tuned. So on today's very, very amazing bonus episode. We have Alexis Fernandez. And so she is a total babe. she's a neuroscientist, as well as the host of Do You Fucking Mind, the podcast, which I obviously love that name. And we got right into it, y'all. We got into like the neuroscience of self-love imposter syndrome, how your mind and brain actually impacts your life and your love life, spiraling, rumination, closure, and all the things that happen to your brain when all of these things are happening. Because I think we want to all pretend like we're snowflakes, but when we understand like the actual brain and human psychology and how this works, then you can start to understand people.

better including yourself. So guys, as always, thank you for everything. Please don't forget to rate the show. Please, please, please. If you're on Spotify, there's three dots at the top, click it, and that's it. If you're on Apple or anywhere else, you can just leave a review. It's the only way I can grow. It's how we can get better guests. I am gunning and manifesting for some biggies this year, so I need your help. Just share it with your friends, listening to it to the end, supporting our sponsors. Like, all of these things are always that you can help. And so for that, I'm so grateful. Thank you guys for supporting the sponsors. And thank you for helping me keep this show for you guys for free. And without further ado, let's get right the fuck on into it. Love you guys.

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Hi, Alexis. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good and I'm so, so excited to have you here. And I just can't wait to introduce the audience to you because when I found you, I was like, fuck yes. And my favorite part is when I posted that you were going to be on, the amount of people saying,

this is my dream collab. Oh my God, you guys together. I was like, I'm here for yourself. So for anyone who doesn't know who you are, can you introduce yourself who you are, what you do, and just give us a little bit more about your background? Yeah. So my name's Alexis Fernandez. I have a podcast called Do You Fucking Mind? And it's all around psychology, neuroscience, mindset. and I actually started the podcast because I love being on a stage, like get me on a stage. I love to talk. And I also have a passion for science.

And I thought I wanted to be an actor growing up. I was like, I'm going to be an act when I was a teenager. And it was like, this was my dream. And then it was like destroyed my soul slowly, like chipped away. And while I was doing acting, I was studying at uni. I just thought, I want to be stimulated. that I love to learn. And so I went to uni and I kind of just fell into doing psychology. And in the first semester, there was this guest lecturer who was talking about the brain and neuroscience and neuroanatomy

and plasticity. And I was fixated. I was like, this is unbelievable. So after that, I was like sprinting down to the lecturer before he left him like, this is what I want to do. I love it so much. And he was like, yeah, change your major to cognitive neuroscience. So there's still a lot of psychology in it, but it's very heavy science-based. So I did that. Then I spent a few years. Then I thought, oh, fuck it. After you graduate from uni,

you can't do much with an undergraduate degree in science or in psychology. There's always like postgraduate studies. And I wasn't about that at the time. I still really wanted to like pursue acting. And I was a Pilates instructor. And I was kind of honestly like a bit of a gypsy through all my 20s. And then I was always pulled to study the brain again. So I went and did my master's.

in neuroscience, years later, like there was a five-year gap or a six-year gap in between, did the masters. And that's where I had already given up acting by that point. And that's what I thought, hey, every time I talk about the brain, I get so excited. I need to funnel this energy into something. And so I thought, I'll start a podcast because I can teach what I'm learning. And when you teach someone what you're learning, it actually helps consolidate the information better. So that's like a fun fact that if you ever want to know if you're learning something, teach it to someone else. If you can't do it, you haven't learned it. So I thought if I can teach people, I'm consolidating the information and I'm loving it and I'm on a stage. I've got a microphone.

I thought it just combines. It's the hobby that I need. And it just blew up because everyone, we were talking about topics that relates to everyone. We all have a brain. We can all do things to help with our brain health. Our relationship with our self is by far the most important one wherever I'm going to have. And that starts with your relationship with your brain. So I think everyone related, everyone kind of took everything on board and shared it. And it was all word of mouth. So thanks to everyone who shared it. So that's how I started with the podcast. Yeah. That's awesome. And I love that. You and I are very similar like for anyone who can't see. I was like fan-girling. Because I was the same. Like I started my journey when I was 18. I moved to New York

being like, I'm going to be an actor, thinking that I was going to be fulfilled by playing another part. and the kind of same thing of like, just put me in front of people. And then when I started software and I gave up kind of same thing with the acting dream. It was like, yes, this isn't for me. Got into entrepreneurship and I was like, okay, this feels more. It's an alignment. And it's amazing how like every experience that we've had has brought us to where we are now, where I'm sure you can relate.

Like without the acting experience, how could we properly enunciate? How could we articulate? How would we be able to on the spot come up with something? My improv classes. And I think just sharing, right? Just sharing that experience. experience alone shows that like to a lot of people, they could look at your life or my life and say, what a waste. And it's like, well, no, I look at it as what an incredible experience that brought

me to where I'm at because had I not gone through all that, maybe you wouldn't have been as comfortable grabbing a mic or maybe, you know, things like that. But I actually, that is really interesting though. I thought, thank you for giving me that snippet that if you teach somebody something, you'll actually learn. Love that. I really want to know just kind of high, neuroscience, obviously studying the brain. But I was curious, what was something that you learned when you were in school about the brain or something? That was shocking to you. That's actually somewhere I'd love to start. What was something where you're like, no, shit? I think the thing that's the most shocking is that, or the most surprising probably, is there's certain people in the world,

and we've all met them, whether we know it or not, but who can literally create massive change, massive transformation for themselves overnight, right? So for a lot of people, it's this massive slog. I've got to make this change. I've got to chip away at it. I've got to try. Oh, I've regressed. And it's just this huge journey. But at the end of the day, regardless of how it's done, massive, massive, massive change can be created in your brain. And you're able to redirect where your attention, focus, energy goes within your brain. Because whether you want to call at rewiring or plasticity. The point is that you are changing from what you used to do to what you can now do. You can create, you can become a completely different person with how you behave,

how you respond, how you react, your instincts can change. And you can do this through changing your thoughts, but also through behavioral interventions. And I always speak about, This is why it's so important to understand your brain because I always speak about how physical things you can do, not just thoughts, but physical things in your day can actually completely change how your brain operates, including like exercise, how you, the timing of the sun in your eyes morning versus evening, meditation, alone time. There's all these physical interventions that you can do that already will elevate your life exponentially. And I just found that really, really cool because I think a lot of people, will think that they're in a position where they're never going to be able to change. But change is so possible. Change is actually inevitable. The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen Tiguan.

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I was just like trying to find something. And I saw like journal prompts from like a year two plus ago where I was like, I can't do it. And I just thought everything that I was reading was very glass half empty. Very, I'm not good enough. And I can't do it. no one's ever going to listen to me. No, no, no, no, no, no, the woe is me.

And the reason I had kind of looked at it is because recently the other day, someone had asked me, somebody literally asked me, they're like, is that glass full or empty? And I said, it's half full. And it hit me. And I stopped and I was like, did the bitch just say that? I was like, did that came out of my mouth? I was like, did I, am I seeing things positively?

And it hit me in that moment where I was like, change is possible. Now, it took me years. I'm not the type of person that overnight. But once I, it's, I kind of look at it as like a wrinkle. Once I started to make a new wrinkle in my brain of like, hey, what about this thought? All of a sudden my brain was like, well, wait a minute. Can we entertain this thought? Okay, if we start to entertain this thought, can we create a thought?

So I'd love to know, I think, for people that are maybe new to all of this, like you said, the people that really genuinely believe, like, I can't do that and how you could do it? I can't. How do you get started in that? Like, what are your tips or tricks on that? So the best thing that I have when it comes to getting started with changing a thought, changing a belief, whatever it is, is you want to look at where you need to go from here to your ultimate goal as a ladder with multiple rungs in it. I think where a lot of people fall back on when it

comes to goal setting and even when it comes to affirmations, when people want, because I've got a love-hate relationship with affirmations, I think they're really good when they're done properly. But I think if you're someone who has this like really ingrained negative belief about yourself and your abilities and very limited on what you think you can do. someone's telling you to have an affirmation of money comes to me easily. I'm rich. And you're like, fuck that I am not. I'm struggling. I've struggled my whole life. Then you're like, I'm a liar. I'm a liar. This doesn't feel right. And it's really, it's quite a frustrating feeling. When affirmations really are based around a feeling that's going to make you feel better,

that's the point of it. So I say, okay, let's strip it right back. And what is a statement that you can say to yourself that is neutral and believable? Because if you're starting from a position where you're saying, let's say, I always get rejected. Let's say that's your belief. I always get rejected. Excuse me. So this then starts to change how you interact with people. You are going to approach people completely differently based on the belief. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, even though you don't want it to be. Because you're thinking, this person's going to reject me, I'm going to have my walls up. I'm going to, and you're nervous around them, your true essence this can not shine through. So you're like this boring, nervous person because you think they're

going to reject you. So you've got this belief. So instead of thinking everybody loves me, everyone's attracted to me, which doesn't feel right, you can start to neutralize that thought and say comments like, this person doesn't know me yet. It could be, it could be anything. You know, so that's pretty neutral. That doesn't, it's not exciting, it's not negative. This person doesn't know me. This person has, I'm a clean slate right now. There's a clean slate. So you could start approaching it this way. Everyone who's around here is probably not thinking anything about me right now. So you start to new and then you think, okay, yeah, it's true. It's true. People that are walking down the straight probably aren't having comments in their head about me. They're not really thinking

about me. They've got their own shit going on. Just like you probably don't think about every person you make. And then the next, so you're at that more neutral place. Then the next position is, it's possible for me to have a good connection with somebody. It's possible. You know, I've got a friend here. We have a great time talking. I had a great conversation with the barista today. And then so you think, okay, yep, and then it's, you'll be amazed at how many small positive interactions you start having with people. Then you take it up and you just go up the rungs until you really are magnetic and people are, you know, attract energy. Yeah. 100%.

And you said that beautifully. Because like I, I know for sure, like when I was dating in my New York years, like, my 20s, I had that mindset of like, I'm never going to find anybody and nobody's going to like me and every guy's going to leave me. And it was like, and oh, you know, I don't want to waste my time. And I need to know. And it's like, and what happened? I showed up differently. I didn't date. Like, I'll never forget this one guy that I dated beginning of last year, 2022.

I keep forgetting we're in 2024. So every time I say last year, you're like, didn't you have a boyfriend then? Yeah. Yes, I did. No, but when I was single, that there was this one guy and I'll never forget, that was the first time I said about. And this was like right after I'd set a boundary with my dad for the first time ever, my brain going, what fuck is she doing? I can't, my nervous system.

I'm like, can't keep her safe. And I remember standing up for myself and telling this guy to get the fuck out of my house. And I was like, I am done. And my friend looking at me after and she's like, I've never seen this out of you. You're dating differently. And what started to happen was I took it less by changing how I showed up. I started to receive differently because then I started to have so many better experiences of people saying, well, thank you for being honest. Really appreciate it all the best instead of getting ghosted and getting, you know, the rejection and feeling all of those things.

And really, I think where that all started for me was similar to what you were. saying, I'll never forget my therapist when she said, how are you? And I said, I'm okay. And she looked at me, she goes, I'll take that. I'm okay with okay. It's good. We're kind of like you said, we're neutral. And I think my issue with the affirmations and the, like you said, I think in the right hands of like, I'm capable of doing this. Great. That's an affirmation I can speak to myself of like, I'm capable and I can get this done. But like you said, a part of me has to believe that I'm actually capable of doing this. And I think what happens with the affirmations is I'm like, No, no, no. This doesn't mean you stand in front of your mirror and say, I'm a badass bitch and fucking put a face mask on and that's all you need to do.

Because your brain and your nervous system are going to be like, nah, she's full of shit. So I think it's important for us to normalize that starting with something small can be really impactful like you said, but over time as we start. Now, question for you. Is it true? Does it take 63 days for a, I think like a new pattern and habit to be formed? Can we dissect that a little bit more of like so people have an understanding of like timeline? So it actually is completely dependent on the individual. It's dependent on what it is that you're doing. Because all our brains are different. And I'm not going to stand to you and say that it's just as easy for absolutely everyone.

They're going to be people with much, a very different upbringing. Because you could have had an upbringing where you were primed to really love yourself and really believe that people in general are good. And then you could have the absolute opposite. So if you're from a lower starting position, of course it's going to be a different journey than for somebody else. Is change possible for everyone? Yes, it is. And so I do understand that we're all at a different starting point, for sure. And then, of course, things can knock you around. Like, you could

have started great than had a really traumatic relationship where someone was just absolutely awful and then you drop down. Then you've got to look at what is it that you're trying to change. If it's something that's so different to your lifestyle, that's where it becomes really, really difficult. So I think for a lot of people, when you're looking at change, you've got to ask yourself, does this fit into my lifestyle? And if it doesn't, am I willing to not have that thing, or am I willing to alter my lifestyle? So an example, a really like, like random example would be, let's say you are extremely social. You love a late night. You socializing. You love a cocktail with your friends. This is just, that brings you so much happiness. Then you decide, I'm going to get

into competitive bodybuilding. Good luck because that doesn't fit into your lifestyle and it's possible. But if you're someone who's a home body that doesn't drink alcohol, doesn't really like to have a late night, doesn't like to socialise, and you say, I want to get into competitive bodybuilding, your starting position is so much easier. So do you know what I mean about like? Of course it's possible for both people, but you've also got to say, yeah, that looks like a good idea. But does this fit into my lifestyle? And if it doesn't, is the goal that needs to change? or does my lifestyle need to change? And I think when you can identify that thing,

then it becomes a lot easier to then start making that permanent change. This is why a lot of people can't adhere to diets, for example. It's because it doesn't, it's not sustainable long term. A lot of things that we do for ourselves is not sustainable long term. So you've got to ask yourself, what can I do to make this thing long term? And that's why it's so good to always start small. You need to make something so doable that it would be reduced. ridiculous not to do it. So for example, if you want to say, I want to start waking up at 5am,

but you normally wake up at 7 a.m. just wake up at 6.50 a.m. If you can do that for five days straight, then you can do 6.40 a.m. And then, you know, obviously you can try at 5am, but obviously the people who set these goals, they're the ones that keep attempting and it fails, it fails, it fails, it fails, it fails. You don't have to change your goal, but you've got to change how you get to your goal. You have to look at your track record and think, I've set this same goal for the last five years in a row. Every new year, every birthday, every milestone event, I'm like, this is what I'm doing now. And then I look back and I've just not done it. It's not that you're not capable. It's that the parameters that you've set for yourself are just unrealistic. So I love

setting huge goals for myself, but I have to break it down into things that I think, okay, this is very likely for me to adhere to. This is very possible for me to actually follow through with this thing. So you do bite size pieces, bite size pieces. And it sounds so. boring, but that is how you do it because your brain is being primed, primed, the brain loves repetition. When you can repeat something enough times, the brain's like, oh, right, that's what you want. Now put it into your subconscious mind. I'll now, I'll now outsource this job to the subconscious mind. So if you're always thinking, I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm going to fail, I always trip up, I'm a failure, then your brain's like, oh, right,

So that's what we need to think. Okay, cool. That's now the job of the subconscious mind. Your brain's not against you. It just does what you do enough times automatically. 100%. You said that really well. Well, and it's like it brings me back to like the brain and the nervous system aren't designed to help you grow. They're designed to keep you safe. And it's like, so if I make a goal that is so outrageous and my brain is going, this bitch can't do it. And then my nervous system is like, absolutely not, ma'am. You have never even seen a healthy love and yet you think you're getting Ryan Reynolds. So it's like, what did I need to start with? I can show up on a date as myself.

You know, it's like, I didn't need to go so heavily. Or like when I started going to the gym, I was such a lazy sack of shit. I was a six-year-old let loose in a grocery store. I, my sister's like, you know, she was the spin instructor that was pregnant. The day she gave birth and she had a 15-minute birth, no joke, a 15 or 20-minute birth, pop the kid out, went right back to teaching and like, that was her. I was the person that the minute I lifted a weight, I was like, eh, and I hurt myself or whatever. So like, you said, I was starting at a different point.

And when I started to go, I wasn't looking going, I'm going to have J-Lo ass. That was my goal. The plan, though, the J-Lo ass that I wanted, okay, how I was doing it of binging, okay, well, that's not helping, starving myself, that's not helping. But you know what it'll help. Okay. So if I know that to get the J-Loass, I need to deadlift 500 pounds, whatever, I'm just throwing weights out.

I need to deadlift 200 pounds. I need to hip-thrust and do all that. So what I'm going to start with, just doing the move without a weight. Just to make sure that my body understands how it needs to move. And like you said, repetition. I keep doing that. I add weight. I add weight. I add weight. Eventually, we get to our goal, but like healing, like the brain,

you have to rip some muscles. We have to go through some discomfort to get us there. And I think that kind of segues me right into like, you know, a lot of the listeners, myself included, very anxious. And I think when we think about creating a neural pathway, like it's so ingrained in that deep childhood, you know, like the core beliefs. Like you said, if somebody had a really secure upbringing, well, yeah, they're probably not going to struggle with dating as much as somebody who has always been told that they're a piece of shit and they are not worth anything. Good luck. So I think for that type of like, that kind of the ruminating, the spiraling thoughts, I'd love, because I know prefrontal cortex and then you go into anxious brain,

you kind of lose it, but can we talk brain now of spiraling, anxious thought, ruminating, like what's happening in your brain? Okay, so this is really interesting. So with them, okay, this is, oh, I could like to talk about. I know, there's so much. It's um, label. Brain is, you've got this, the old primitive brain, and then the further you move out in the brain to the very outer layers is the newer and more modern part of the brain. So at the very surface of the brain, you've got something called the neocortex, which is where all the really high functioning, higher, you know, processing goes down. In the very, very center of the brain is all survival things, breathing heart rate, all of that in the brain stem, all of that. That's very primitive. That's pretty much what every mammal has. all our emotions and especially our fear-based centers is in the middle area of the brain. It's called the amygdala and the limbic system and all of that. And this is all to do with emotions, flight, fright, freeze, bone, all of that. When you are feeling anxious or stressed, that part of the brain is absolutely taking over.

It's basically trying to protect you. It's trying to guard you. It's trying to get you to basically limit the amount of, you know, potential, you know, like threats, basically. When you're really relaxed, the prefrontal cortex part of the brain, which is your, you know, executive function, your higher order thinking, all of that, that part of the brain becomes really active. The really interesting thing is, the more stressed you are, the less those two brain

centers can communicate with each other. Because the point is, how do I get them talking to each other? because in order to calm down, you need your quote unquote logic, your logical brain, which is the prefrontal cortex that new part of the brain to talk to the emotional centers of the brain. If you are highly stressed and unaware of, you know, like I can talk myself down, I'm not being present or whatever. If you're highly stressed, you're not having that communication. They're not talking to each other at all. And this is where ruminating, spiraling, predicting other people's thoughts, you know, your mind reading, all of that goes down.

There's something, and I can't remember who coined to this term as psychologist, but it's called name it to tame it. And the simple act of naming your emotion, whatever it is, fear, anxiety, and then understanding when that emotion started or where it came from, that simple act switches on the logical part of your, the prefrontal cortex and it gets it just that alone just gets it talking to your amygdala, gets it talking to your emotional centers. And it just, just shedding light starts to calm it down. It's kind of like you can't have darkness when there's light present. It's kind of that kind of thing.

It just can't grow anymore. So you just stagnate it and you've just shed a light on it. Another thing that really, really helps to connect these two centres together is, of course, exercises like breathing, meditation is huge to increase the connectivity between those two regions, like massive exercise, unbelievable to get those two centres talking to each other. They say that running is really good for that. I don't know if it's superior to the other kinds, but if anyone here who listens runs, we all know the feeling of the run is high, which is this like sense of calm throughout the whole brain and euphoria. But anything that you

can do that starts getting these two brain regions talking is going to stop the spiraling and the ruminating in that moment. And the more you do it, the shorter these ruminating moments become and they become smaller and smaller. Because what people need to understand, what highly anxious people need to understand is that anxiety occurs in every single human being unless you don't have an amygdala, which is terrible because you need to have fear in your life. So everyone has it. So it's not about eliminating anxiety. It's not about eliminating these emotions. It's about reducing them to a very manageable level. Because even the people that you think, fuck, that person's killing it. They never get stressed. They never, they get these emotions. They

It just handled them in the moment, you know? I'm sure you get this all the time. Like, how do you do it? Or like, I get some people and they're like, you're so secure. Were you ever anxious? And I'm like, you don't. The reason I know your thoughts is because I had those thoughts. I was that girl that was, it like, it almost kind of scares me.

When I get triggered, where my brain will turn off, like how it goes from really logical. This all makes sense. I'm here having a full conversation. And I try to compare it of like, okay, if a tiger walked up, do you think you're still? You think your brain's still going to be like, hey, she's still hungry. Don't forget. She's up. Oh, your brain's going to be like, I got to keep her safe.

I got to keep her safe. And understanding, like, it's so fun because you know, like, you learn these tools and techniques and stuff. But then when hearing you be like, hey, so this has actually been scientifically studied, it's like, oh, sweet. So like actually sitting and trying to name your emotion, there's a reason that we do that. It's not just woo-woo. But I do have a question.

I've been told, and I'm curious from the brain, obviously, a nervous system in the brain are two different things. but meditation. Because I've always been told when you're dysregulated, when you're in that ruminating and spiraling, that it's not good to meditate because you can't focus. But I'd love to know is that, like, should you regulate first and then try to meditate?

Can your brain bypass that? Like, you know how it is. Sometimes you're so in your thoughts that just trying to sit with it feels like you're going to go insane. I'd love people to have a tool or be able to actually do this to where they can handle it. Yeah, so I agree with that as well. I think if you're in an extremely heightened state, meditating sometimes it's just not the thing for you in that moment.

Meditating is a tool that you should be doing on a daily basis and then it will help you with these moments when they arise. But when you're in this crazy state, now some people can do it, but a lot of people can't, especially if they're not used to meditating. And it's very, it almost puts you in this state where you're hyper fixating on that thing because you're trying not to. And then this idea of like, I'm trying not to think about it. but because I'm trying not to think about it now, think about it all. And it's very overwhelming. So what I recommend that people do when they're in that really heightened state is switch to a distracting task that is very neutral.

Social media is not it. Okay, that is not a neutral, you know, something that's going to just distract you, but not incite any kind of emotion whatsoever. And I remember when I went through like this awful breakup that I thought would destroy my soul, I probably spent, I can't tell you how many hours playing Sudoku and Solitaire because it would use up enough of my attention that it took the edge off. I would still feel like my heart rate would go down and I'm there just doing a puzzle. I'm like, okay, the nine goes here.

And it was amazing that just switching yourself to a, like, you could do a puzzle, but it's a task that requires focus, concentration, but it's not so difficult that it's annoying and it also has, there's no emotion behind it. So watching a movie, watching social media, engaging, that is too, you can incite way too many emotions. So neutralize, neutralize, neutralize, and it has to be semi-distracting as well. So I think little games like that are really, really good. And yeah, for me, that was my tool to like take the edge of my pain and it worked almost every single time. Didn't take the pain away completely, but I was able to be like, okay now I can function so much better now. I can now go and do that task. I can now leave the

house. I can start working without walking into work crying. So it's these little tools that you do. And then once you've talked yourself of that emotional ledge, then it's a lot easier to then think, okay, now I can do some breathing things to regulate. You know, now you can take a few deep breaths, shake it out. Another really good tool is to physically move your body because your body interprets a lot of emotions in the same way. Like your physical symptoms for anxiety is the same as excitement. So really good thing that you can do. Or the same as like when you're exhausted after a workout,

sometimes that feeling could feel like, you know, so if I've got all this energy, anxious energy, 100% I'm doing burpees, star jumps, jumping up and down. And you actually shake off that energy. If you pay attention to animals in the wild, if they're gearing up to have a fight and the fight doesn't happen, The animal, the bird, the whatever is shaking, shaking, shaking all that energy off. We have to do the same thing.

You have to physically shake it off because if you have like this wave of anxiety and then you just sit there in stillness, it's horrible. That energy is not going anywhere, but staying in you, you know? Oh, yeah. Well, this is where you have energy and motion, emotions. Now, let me preface. If you're going to do jumping, please wear your goddamn sneakers because that's how I broke my butt.

I was literally, yes, I was recording a video to show what to do when you're anxious, do the shakes, literally shake it out. and I was wearing socks and I had heard I had like in Pilates I heard my foot like making noise and I was like huh but it felt fine so I was like okay I'm fine literally a hop off the floor by a foot you know like not even just jumping and it's on fucking video I break my foot I fall to the floor and I scream and to this day my partner he's like when are we posting it and I'm like fuck you okay we're not posting this how to break your foot exactly when you're regular and I was like we're not doing that but the point being is like I'll do that sometimes even just like I need to move my energy and I'll punch the air. Like, you know, you get a troll on the internet that's a fucking asshole. And I'm like, I pretend I'm fighting them or doing something. And I love even just like naming or sometimes I'll even stop and I'll be like, the tree is green in front of me just to bring myself back to the moment I'm in.

You made a comment about like when you were going through the breakup. And I think I think what a lot of people struggle with it. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on is like the narrative. You know, just that that narrative that plays. Like my brother calls them the screw tapes, like the book. or whatever. But I'd love to learn a little bit more brain-wise. Like, obviously, we know when you're triggered, you're just regulated, things like that.

But I think for a lot of people, they just have this narrative that plays and those core beliefs that come over and over again. And it's like above what we talked about, is there anything, especially after a breakup or when people are dealing with things to be able to take control over the narrative? Like, is it naming it? Like, what can we do about that? Yeah, there's a lot that you can do because obviously when you go through a breakup, especially when you had no control over the situation and it's not at all what you wanted.

Because it's very different when you, when you, sorry, when you instigate the breakup, a big part of you understands that it's the right thing that needs to be done. And so it's a very different process, still painful, but very different to the rug was ripped underneath you. The love of your life has just left you and there's nothing you can do about it. No matter what you do, say you could beg, play, then never want you back. that position is like the ultimate feeling of powerlessness and that is one of the worst emotions you can feel almost worse than fear like powerlessness makes you just you have no

motivation you have no drive you have there's nothing that you don't even want to get out of bed like you're just so you're so sad and you have no control over the situation another thing is that we go through this feeling of abandonment it's someone that you love and this person you believe loved you. So the first thing you've got to do is, it's number one is have a moment to grieve and mourn and be kind to yourself because you are going through these really horrible emotions and they're real, you know, feeling genuinely abandoned by the love of your life is a real feeling and it's not something that you just want to a lot of people, you know, they'll do all these band-aid things. They'll, you know, get under someone to get over someone, that kind of thing,

which never worked for me. And I tried. It just didn't work. And, you know, I was like, I hung my whole hat up a long time ago, but yes, I tried that too. Yeah, right. Like, you get that a go. And maybe it's exciting in the moment, but it doesn't really, you know, you're not getting to the bottom of it. So I think one of the things you've got to look at is acknowledge that you have this lack of control and that that is what it actually is because a lot of people then will start

to fixate. They'll try and get control by following their ex on Instagram, watching all their story. And that's their version of regaining some. level of control. I need to stalk my ex. I need to say what they're doing. Who's their day? You tell your friends, oh, that person's blocked me. Can you now follow this? Which is the perfect recipe to create a sad situation to a very anxious situation. So you've got to, if someone, if you've broken up, number one is don't try and find control in areas where you never actually will get control. Never do that to yourself because you will just bring on more anxiety. Control comes in

the things that only have to do with you. The only things you can really control in your life are anything that directly involves yourself, your actions, your habits, your routines, your behaviours, all of that. So what I recommend is, yeah, try not to obviously control anything that's going on there. You've got to remove all of that. And another big thing that happens is we fall into this need for closure,

which is a huge trick that we play on ourselves because I did this to myself. This was like my downfall when I had the breakup because I was in this relationship for three and a half years. I believed he was the love of my life. Now I'm like, I need to write him a thank you card, like a thrill. But at the time, it was so horrible. And he, one day, and we didn't have a big argument, nothing.

He was amazing. He treated me so well. And one day he's like, I just, I don't want to be with you. I'm done. I don't love you, how I should. I'm done. And we never spoke again. It was like, it was like a death.

It was so horrible. I just could not wrap my head around it. And my main thing, the thing that I told myself again and again, and I'd tell everyone, I was almost sick of my own voice, but was I didn't get closure. I need an answer. Why? What did I do wrong? So I'll know how to do it.

And I had all these, I need closure. I need closure. And because I was so fixated on closure, I wasn't paying attention to like, what do I need to heal right now? What do I need for myself so I can feel good? Everything was about him and getting closure. And then I realized, really, there's nothing he can really say that. can make and change what happened, you know? So I'm the only one that can actually give myself

the closure here, really, because someone can give you all the reasons and then you're going to look for more reasons and then you're going to think of this, then you're going to think of that. Then you think, well, like if they say, it's because you did this. Then you're going to go insane being like, well, what would have happened if I never did that thing and what? You just go insane. At the end of the day, you're just two people doing the best you can existing in this world. So whether you get the closure or not, it's not going to change the outcome. So you have to think the only person who can give me closure is me. Take the power back. Why are you giving the power of your healing to the person that caused your heartbreak? It's crazy. You know, so take the power back. And the more

you take these little moments of, I'm taking the power back here, I'm taking it. You don't feel completely disempowered. You don't feel hopeless. And you start being like, okay, I've got some hope here. I just did that for myself. I just feel a little. And then before you know it, you start to build yourself back up again without needing them. You're doing it for yourself. 100%. I remember when I went through my major breakup, implementing routines, doing things, showing up for myself every single day, 10 minutes for myself. That was how I started. Small, 10 minutes. That's what I'm like, okay, you want to reconnect yourself? Read 10 pages of a book. Just do something. And I think you're 100%. The closure thing, it just drives me insane. Because typically like any time,

if I work with anybody or I talk to anybody, the first thing, when they come to me with why, I'm like, I'm not them. Shut it down. Like, stop asking me, why did they do this? Here's my thing. What about that felt familiar? I always bring it back. Why did they do this? What about it? It felt comfortable for you. Why'd you allow it? Okay, you don't have an answer for that either, right? So it's like us asking why. And I'm with you. I'm a big proponent of you create your own closure. Because if somebody broke it off with me and I don't understand why, what I am going to understand is, well, they've made a decision not to be with me. So I don't want to pursue people that are unavailable. I don't want to pursue people that don't want to be with me. I don't want to pursue people that don't want to be with me. I don't want to pursue people. So if somebody has broken it off with me, maybe I can't understand their why, because I don't understand their traumas. I don't understand what's going on. Maybe they met somebody else. It doesn't really matter. What matters is this person doesn't want to be with me. Great, that's all I needed to know. That was the information that I needed to gather from them. And I think oftentimes, like you said, closure, what it does is it takes you further away from you and further away from the actual issue and it helps you deflect and focus on somebody else's issues because, hey, if I can

focus on them, well, then maybe I'll be fixed in a return. But the whole issue is, you're not broken, so there's nothing to fix. But on the contrary, if you could turn it back, like I have one of my clients and I love him to pieces. And after we'll talk, all he ever says is, I'm just really confused. I'm just still super confused. And I think when I hear that, and somebody actually asked this question, so it's kind of segueing into it is like, you don't trust yourself. You know, you don't trust. Like, if you're really confused, it's like, what's confusing about this? Like, we've gone over it. You know the information. You were confused because it's not what you want. Your is like, no, I'm confused. And that kind of reminds me the closure thing. But I think somebody

had asked this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. How do you trust your brain or your thoughts when you are in a sad state? So when you are confused or you are this or body image, I look like a, I look like shit or whatever, how can you trust your brain if you say, but no, I'll be okay, you know, or like it'll all right. What are things or tools or ways that people can grow to start trusting themselves a little bit more, especially their brain? Well, you pretty much, like when you said that, is that how people can grow to trust themselves. Everything when it comes to starting to trust yourself is doing things in your life that equal growth.

When you start doing, and it's got to be for you, okay, you've got to do something that is for yourself where you are growing. And it doesn't have to be this philanthropic, crazy, it can be something super basic. But anything where you can achieve growth and you notice yourself start to evolve is unbelievable in how you then begin to trust yourself because it's it all ties into this relationship with yourself and self-love and all of that but if you're in a situation where for example here's an example if you are in a situation where someone's broken your heart your friends are all you know hitting all these milestones that you're not hitting it kind of feels like you're here and the

world is passing you by and that's what I hear a lot a lot of people who are either heartbroken or they don't know what to do with their careers or they don't they're stuck they're like everyone's passing me by and I'm falling behind. And what I always think and what I always say to people is that's because your change is inevitable. Everyone's going to evolve and change and evolve and change. The same as why you don't understand why someone broke up with you. Most of the time, it's because we can't get into someone's head. No one thinks the way we think. We don't think how anyone else thinks. They're going through their own shit. And a lot of the time, it's a very personal decision to leave someone a lot of the time because they were with you for long enough. They obviously liked you

at some point, they've changed. So they've evolved onto the next thing. So when you're unsure about yourself, you've got to ask yourself, how am I actually evolving? And am I? Because if I'm in this uncomfortable position, it's not because I'm not good enough. It's because I'm ready to evolve into the next stage. If I feel uncomfortable, if I feel like, oh, I'm not happy with this, or oh, I'm confused. It's because it's me getting pushed into what needs to be the next stage of my life. So my dad says this thing to me and it's so brilliant. And he said it once when I was like, do I travel overseas? I'm still so heartbroken.

I don't know what I'm doing with my life. And he said, Lexus, you have to chase change. Don't let change chase you. And it's so true because a lot of people sit in this place where all these horrible things are happening to them, things that they can't control. They got fired. They're this. They're that.

And because they're not, they don't feel like they can take a leap of faith or they can risk something, change is chasing them. And they feel stuck and the world is passing them by. So you've got to flip the narrative and you've got to think, okay, what am I going to do to create some change in my life? What am I going to do? This is why people cut their hair after a breakup. I'm all for it because you know what I? It's like, you're drawing a line in the sand and you're like, I am changing. And it's brilliant. It's so good. the psychology of cutting your hair after, I love it. And change your style. Start doing things superficially. And when you're okay with the superficial things, they're like, I can start doing that internally as well. You know, change your routine, change where you work out. Change. Start to create

all these changes in your life for yourself where you're noticing growth, when you're noticing improvement, where you're noticing, you know, an evolution of the self. And you'll be so much surer of yourself. Because when you fixate on things that are superficial, like how I look, how this person traded me, how this, how that, it's all outside of you. Again, it's things you can't control. Whereas the number one thing that you can control and that will always feel good is something you can earn. And that's growth. That's something you can learn. Focus on things you can earn because if you get something that's given to you, you know, you can't, you don't want to buy it, borrow it, steal it. Like if you earn something, it can never be taken away.

And that's where you start to build up who you are. And you can do that as far as emotional intelligence, as far as like the book smart, as far as studying something, as far as experiences, anything. But earn it. And that's where you'll stop relying on people for things and you'll start to gravitate to people for connection instead. And that's where you start improving your relationships. is 100%. And that kind of leads us into like the last thing I even wanted to talk, imposter syndrome,

because it's like, I know personally, everything I've done, and I'm not like super woo-woo. So when I say certain things, you know what it kind of hurts you to say it, but like I outgrew my container. Okay.

That's it. Like I outgrew the space that I was in. And every time I've leveled up or I've tried or I've done anything. And like you said it earlier, any person that's out there in the world experiences anxiety. And so like when people look at me like, how did you grow into what you've grown? And it's like, I was a girl that had nothing.

I was a girl scared to put myself out there, to do all of these things to create a TikTok, to create a podcast, to create a clothing line, to create all of these things. I was fucking terrified. But I knew if I stay in the same space, I'm just going to keep taking up the same space that I've been taking.

But if I try to push myself to do something unique, would I fail? I could. Or I could flop. I don't see it as a failure because at least I fucking tried. Yeah, but still you and you'll stay. Exactly. And it's like I think people even now, they'll look at me and say, oh, well, you must be, everything's great. You have your partner and you have your career. It's like, and do you think I'm not scared about what tomorrow's going to bring? And do you think that I'm not always worried about today was good, but what about tomorrow? And it's like, but what I personally had to learn about at least imposter syndrome for myself was one that everybody goes through it. That when I got into my, and it's not just career. When I got into my relationship, I was fucking terrified. I had never been in a healthy or secure relationship. I've never been able to express myself and to articulate things. And, and, to share things. But what happened was I tried. And my body, I trusted myself because I've done so

much work on myself to come back home to myself, to listen, to understand, to be in my body, to know what's going on, to learn and to evolve and to also drop my fucking ego. Because I know as well as you do, you could be teaching me. You have taught me a thousand things in this conversation. Maybe I knew, maybe I didn't. It doesn't really matter. But I am humble enough to say, hey, this is new for me. I'd love to learn more. Can you share versus so ego of, well, I share. should know this and oh, I should be doing that. And so I think I would love to kind of talk a little bit about imposter syndrome. Maybe it's the same fucking tools. But I think for anybody out there that like you had to you're going into something new, trying something different, experimenting with something,

how can people feel a little bit more supported? Because I know not everyone's going to be me. And me is the, I'm a glutton for punishment. And I grew up with a father that always told me I'm not shit and always humbled me down. And my family always telling me that you got you got to work, you got to work. So for me to be arrogance, not fucking possible because I'm my own worst enemy. But I think for a lot of people,

they worry, I don't want to become a narcissist. I don't want to be arrogant. I don't want to be all that. But it's like, how can you, I guess, how can you be comfortable

with the ebs and flows? How can you be cognizant that going into something new is going to require you to get new skills to learn? When I went to the gym, I was fucking terrified of being in the gym at gold

with all these big bodybuilders until I came in and I learned how to do it and then I was showing them up. Like, obviously, I wasn't lifting what they were lifting, but you know what I'm saying. So I think we all experience it, but I'd love to kind of hear any last bit of thoughts

or anything that maybe is coming to mind as far as imposter syndrome, I think because I think in dating it really is a big part. People that were super anxious coming insecure could feel foreign. How can we support people like that? Or how can they support themselves? Totally.

So when you're feeling imposter syndrome, and I think like most, I mean, sure there's some that don't, but most people do feel this in some way, shape or form, very often about like, career people feel it, but then you can of course feel it in every area of your life. You know, confidence is a huge one. And I think for me, one of the really good ways to get around imposter syndrome is you've got to look at the people who you think are doing it right, who you think, because when we experience imposter syndrome, it's based on a comparison to something,

to some benchmark, right? It's not this arbitrary feeling out of the blue. You're basing it on a benchmark. You're either trying to be as good as your peers or you're trying to get to this level, you know, as a podcast or as a TikToker, you know, and so when you start to feel imposter syndrome, it's because there's a sense of comparison going on. And I think that comparison can be used as a very good tool if you acknowledge it and do something about it. A lot of the time we'll compare ourselves to other people and because we're not hitting the mark or we think, wait a minute, they're doing way better than me, but I've succeeded a bit more so I shouldn't be here. So I'm a fraud. So and then, you know, so it, but it's all around comparison. So when you can identify who are

you comparing yourself to number one. And then the next thing is, how can I create some form of connection instead of competition with these people that I'm comparing myself to? So, for example, this is an example that I've used on my podcast before. If you're someone who you're dating this new guy, You're a woman dating a guy and he's got some girlfriends. And this is really common. People get really jealous of the new guys' girlfriends. They're like, I'm really jealous at these girls. They're this, they're that or whatever.

You can feel this animosity because you've not made a connection. The moment you start to reach out to these girls and say, hey, I really like that outfit. Hey, this is cool. You'll be amazed at how not everyone, because there's going to be assholes and that's just life, but you'll be amazed how in general people will take the olive branch and they will strengthen that connection. It's amazing. Sometimes I'll

look at someone and I'll be like, oh, like when I used to be a Pilate's instructor, like the coolest, hottest trainer would come in. And instead of being like, she's my competition, I'd be like, hey, let's, you know, let's do this, let's do that. Let's film a workout together. Let's whatever. And before we knew, we were like great mates and we were collaborating, collaborating, collaborating. The same goes for in my career. If there's podcasters that I'm like, oh, wow, that's so, you know, I'll try and collaborate with them. You know, it's any person in your life that you deem a competition, ask yourself, can I turn this around into a collaboration? And not as in like a professional collaboration where I'm talking about, can you bring your

minds together? Can you have a connection in some way, shape, or form? Can you turn this stranger into a friend? And even if you can't access them because they're too high up and there's no way of contacting this person, what can you learn about this person that makes them more human for you to be like, oh, like I'm learning so much about you on a human level. At the end of the day, we're all humans. We all have emotions, the same emotions that you're having. And when you can see them for that, you're able to celebrate other people's wins without taking away from your wins.

You're able to, you know, that's one of the best things that I've learned instead of being like, it's me or you that's going to win, but we both can't win, to then realizing that's not the case at all, at all. And ironically, the more you celebrate other people's successes and wins, the more I win. I used to look at it the other way around, maybe because we were enacting and auditioned, like one person gets the roles. Maybe it's because of that, I don't know. But in general, now I look at it as when I'm feeling, and I've had bouts of imposter

syndrome in my podcasting career, and when I feel that, I think, wait, wait, wait, like strip it back. Why am I feeling this? Who am I comparing myself to? Where is that coming from? Are they even like me? No, they're completely different. So instead of, why can't I just appreciate what this person has to offer, learn from them,

but I'm not like them anyway. So I've got to lean into what I do. do, you know, and that's, I hope that answered your question, but that's kind of how I would approach these feelings of imposter syndrome. Totally. I mean, my mom has always said that. She's like, I don't want you to feel jealous because jealousy implies that you don't think that you could do it. If you think you're jealous, I'm jealous of her. Well, so I don't think that you could do what she's doing. Oh, well, okay. Well, of course I can. And so my mom's like, you can be envious. She's like, you could be inspired. I want you to be inspired by somebody. Wow, look how incredible. But it's

kind of, it's really interesting. It's true. Like, when I started the podcast, I, I, the reason I think I didn't have a lot of imposter syndrome was because I didn't really look at anybody else. I really stayed in my own lane and I was like, all right, bitch, you got the mic, fucking record. You know, like, you look at other people just to say, okay, this is how they market, got it. Oh, this is the website they use. Okay, cool. I can inspiration. I'm utilizing that.

And it's true. Like when I would reach out to certain people and be like, hey, would love to collapse. Some people are so open arms and other people, hmm, because you're like, oh, you're insecure. You see. The old me would have gone into, what did I do wrong? Am I not? Do they not like me? instead, it's like, are you threat?

Do you not? Do you not see that we can build a longer table, not a higher fence? And so I love that. I wish we had more time and I would dive into jealousy and stuff. But for now, I'm just so excited. Alexis, thank you so fucking much for coming on the podcast, for sharing so much wisdom. I can't wait for us to swap.

This is what we talk about collaboration. I know, I know. Exactly. And when I saw your TikTok, I was like, oh, my God, this is unbelievable. I love it so much. I'm excited. I can't wait. So for anybody, how can they find you?

Everything will be in the show notes. in general, but how can people find you, work with you, listen to you, all the fun stuff? Yeah. So my podcast is, do your fucking mind? You can listen to it wherever you get your podcast. My Instagram handle is at Alexis Predes, P-R-E-Z. It's like a mix of my surnames. And what else? Got a website? You got a book? I've got a book. So my book is, I've got two books. I've got B-B-Bold and the neuroscience of self-love. Yes. And are they on Amazon and the States? That's a very good question. I've had a few people struggle to get copies of it.

But we are looking at like bumping up distribution in the US. So sweet. So when this episode comes out very soon in the next few days, but I will work with you directly to get links for anybody because obviously we have people all around the world, but just specifically for anyone in the States, I add to the Amazon group. But nonetheless, Alexis, thank you so much.

I can't wait for us to continue to grow to keep doing more. And I'm just so grateful for you being on the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I loved that talk.