The Sabrina Zohar Show - 59: How to flirt, approach people in public, and build your confidence in dating with flirt coach Benjamin Camras!

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina is joined by flirt coach Benjamin Camras to chat about flirting dos and donts, how to approach people on the apps and in the wild, and how to build your confidence in dating! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruitflies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen, these little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohart and I am your host. Oh, my babies, tomorrow. Tomorrow's the day. Well, tomorrow if you're listening to this when it launches on February 13th in general in life, you guys will know, but tomorrow's Valentine's Day. Oh, man. Boy, oh boy, do I remember last year when Tech guy didn't do a fucking thing. And this year, we've got an entire night planned because, babes, that's called communication. Not everyone's going to do what you want. Not everyone's going to act how you're.

you want and that doesn't mean that we have to walk away from people. That just means that we can give them a bit of the bit of the doubt and have a conversation. But I'm so excited. I have Benjamin the flirt coach. I love Benjamin. He is such a doll. He's so sweet. So adorable. My gay Libra. But I'm excited because I think a lot of you guys ask about flirting and confidence and how to approach people. And I was like, fuck it. Let's have some fun. Let's make this light an area. It didn't need to just be me. We have our gay Libra. Mr. Ben. And he's going to be on giving his tools, tips, tricks. And I think he's just so fantastic, such a breath of fresh air. So definitely go follow and check them out. But guys, I'm just so excited. And I hope this year that you're able to have a fantastic Valentine's Day,

whether it's with somebody or not, it doesn't fucking matter. Because, you know, my mama brought up a good point. I remember she said this to me February 2022. And she was right. She said, Zab, this could be your last time alone. This could be your last Valentine's Day alone. So why don't you make it as a lovely and amazing as you possibly can for yourself? Which was awesome. It's true. It's like, this could be the last V day you have alone. So enjoy it. Watch your favorite movie, eat your favorite fucking foods. Do what you want to do. Whether you're with someone or not, it doesn't fucking matter. This day is fucking contrived anyways. Every day, celebrate each other. Right. But listen, if you have somebody, enjoy it. Happy Valentine's Day, Babes. So guys, I'm so excited.

The course is coming soon. I'm a little behind. Mama's writing a book too. There are so many things happening. I'm so delayed. But, and quick announcement, I did cut off intro sessions doing one-on-one just because, frankly speaking, I don't have the bandwidth. So right now, the only way to work with me is either to get a four-pack because I really want to work with people more consistently, not just one-offs because it's not as much done can get done. Or I have literally one spot left for the program. I had two. Somebody just booked it up for the unlimited. So there's one left. The next opening won't be probably until May or April. If I open it again, we'll see. So yeah, I'm excited. If you guys need anything, link in show notes. You can find anything that you need there.

And as always, guys, thank you for everything. Don't forget to rate the show. Please, please, rate the show. It takes two seconds wherever you're at on Amazon. I heart radio, Google, Dizer. especially Spotify and Apple. Apple's at the bottom. Spotify, there's three dots at the top. You click those and that's all you got to do. It's just rated five stars if you think it's worth it. And we move on with our day. And don't forget to follow on the socials because, you know, we all know TikTok doesn't follow or show half the stuff. So follow along on Insta. Everything's in the show notes that you guys might need. All right, babes, without further ado, let's get right on into it. This episode is brought to you by software. Babes, that's my clothing line. So software is sustainably

produced right here in L.A. So we call it, if we say from thought to thread. So literally everything is done. Nothing comes from overseas whatsoever. Our hang tags, our fabric, our cut and sew, our dye houses, our packaging, our fulfillment center. Everything happens within 10 miles in L.A. So the stuff is very tailored. It's very fitted. We wanted to make something that feels like a hug. And it started when my mom went to the doctor with a headache and they found six brain aneurysms. I corroded the top half of her vessel. And her positivity and her mindfulness is what kept her going. And when she, I got a photo of her with two thumbs up in the hospital bed after a successful surgery, after three months of failed surgeries, and I started software the next day. And it's just my heart and soul. And it's something that I love.

And we have our new color, our Heatherd Gray. And I'm just so excited. I hope you guys. So if you use the code do the work at wearsoftware.com, you get 20% off your first order. Oh, fucking amazing on anything, including sale items. So again, that's wheresoftware.com. And the code is do the work. Guys, I can't wait to get you. Oh, so cozy. Hi, Benjamin. I am so fucking excited to have my favorite flirt coach Undo The Work. So welcome to the pod.

Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here and talk all things flirting. Me too. Can you give, for anybody who doesn't know you in our audience, can you give a little bit background of who you are, what you do, and how you got started and everything? Definitely. My name is Benjamin.

I'm the flirt coach and the gay Libra that has probably hopefully come across your FYP on TikTok or flirt talk. your feed on flirtstagram. And I am just so thrilled to be here. I had a whole career before I went into coaching. I was a city planner and was just like, I have to do something where I really want to follow my passion and really follow this creative drive that I have and just be able to work with people as someone that's been a lifelong introvert, lots of social anxiety. Not that they're exclusive together, but for me they definitely were. And flirting was always really challenging for me. So I'm really happy to be in a position now just to help people work through it and ultimately make connection

because that's that's what it's all about. What I love is that you have a personal experience about this because it's like, of course, we have so many people that's like, yeah, you can read a book and figure it out. But I actually think a lot, a big issue that was, you know, like on Insta, when we asked the questions and stuff, that a lot of people struggled with like, I don't know how to flirt. I'm shy. And so I'm excited to hear like your journey as well. But I kind of wanted to start off. Like, I think a lot of people even ask like, what is flirting? You know, like, just how. highbrow, like, well, how do you flirt? What is flirting?

And I was like, I want to hear your thoughts on that. Because I'll tell you, me personally, I'm an incredibly flirty, flirty person and I don't need to be. So I was like, I wanted to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, there's kind of like two takes to it. There's sort of the juicier answer, which is like getting someone's attention. Like for me, I'm going to be flirting with guys. And that tends to be a lot of the people I work with.

So right, how do you get his attention? How do you sort of catch his eye kind of thing? Maybe you want to get the number. Talk to your crush. Get a first date kind of thing. So there's sort of that. aspect, but then it's like where do you actually start if you're feeling anxiety or nerves, if you're lacking confidence? And so I approach flirting as being all about connection. It's an

authentic in the moment expression of yourself. You're allowing someone to see who you are in that moment on that day, however you're feeling and just make a connection with them. So when you start from the place of connection, I hope it can then become a more empowering process. I love that actually because as you were talking and as you said it, I was like, no, he's right. That's exactly because, like, I was talking to my tech guy about it yesterday when we were coming up with the questions for the episode and stuff. And I was like, you know, I asked him, I'm like, do you struggle to flirt? And he's like, well, you know, he's a little bit more rigid. So he's like, I think people take me literally.

And I was like, see, I don't. And he was like, yeah, that's, he's like, I know that about you. Since I was like, no joke in high school, people would always think I was flirting with them. And I was like, no, I'm just trying to connect with you, you know? And it's like, like, like, like, for me, how do I flirt? I'm like, if I see somebody like, I'm just, I'm a talker, you know, I'm somebody that will just start a conversation. So it's like, if I saw somebody out, like when I was single and I lived in

Venice, Mama took her swing all the fucking time because yeah, what was I going to lose, right? Like, oh, you don't like me? Who gives a shit? At least I tried. And so it's like, I've had guys like I think one one standout was like I was at, I was at a like this is I think how not to do it in my opinion. Um, I was at I was ordering lunch like at an outdoor, you know, like kind of cafe and I saw this like too like I was in, this is in Venice. So like this guy stuck out and I was like you're, you're from New York. Like I could already tell. And he was literally standing there just staring at me. And so like every time I turned around, it was just dead stare. And I was like, oh, this is just a little awkward. So I thought

he was maybe waiting for somebody. And like, I guess he had tried to get my attention. I didn't hear him. So I leave headphones in. I'm walking down the street. I feel someone touch me. That's when I'm like, and like, I turned around in like a defense of like, what the fuck. Yeah. I just see him. And he's like, hey, you know, like, I just saw you. You're really beautiful. I'd love to get your number. And I remember just staying there. And I was like, um, in my head. I'm like, I don't know who you are. Like, this is just really weird. And so I like, I gave him my number. And like, of course, nothing ever fucking came out of it. Like it was, you know, it was one of those moments.

But I was like, okay, that's how not to do it. I wanted to hear kind of your thoughts of like the fine line between flirting and creepy. Sure. Let's, yeah, I mean, we could break down that example for sure. It's, I mean, right away, like, I would never advocate for going for physical touch to get someone's attention or if they, like, like, he tried to make the eye contact or something like that. There's other ways to do it with body language and nonverbal flirting skills.

And of course, just using your voice before you. advance, like even just tapping you on the shoulder from behind. But already, like, to me, this isn't a flirt on his behalf because he's coming into this interaction with you wanting one thing. He's not trying to make a connection. He's not trying to ask you any questions, even give you a compliment, sort of pick up the vibe. What's the energy? He's like, number and then what did he want after that? Perhaps a date. Like, that's all he was focused on. So in that way, your interaction, like this interaction between the two of you was very engineered to a specific result or outcome.

So right away, to me, it's not a flirt. And then not trying to just sort of interact you, interact with you with any permission or consent, just like coming right up from behind. Like, ooh, yeah, I mean, that's, that would give me creepy vibes too. Have you ever had a moment where you think, man, someone should really do something about this?

Then you realize maybe that someone is you. Well, with the help of GoFundMe, you can change someone's life. You could start a go-fund me to help a friend pay for school, fund that new community space, or help a local kid finally get to that national competition. I've seen this myself. Last year, a friend of mine launched a go-fund me to help with medical bills after an unexpected surgery. It was incredible how fast the support rolled in.

People want to help. They just need a way to do it. And Go-fund me makes it easy. So do you have a dream, a person, or a cause in your life that could use some support? don't wait for someone else to bring change. You can be the one who makes a difference. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people.

Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com. That's gofundme.com. Gofundme.com. Right. Yeah, I was like, I remember leaving and just being like, yeah, he was cute and I was like, you're lucky, you're cute. Because if you weren't, I was fucking freaked out. I know.

And it's like, I really, I'm actually kind of holding on to the connection part because I think that's really the biggest aspect of this. Now, can you share a little bit more about your journey of feeling like that anxiety or insecurity or whatever, like, you know, whatever you kind of the introvert, the shy? Because I think a lot of people are kind of asking like, how do I, how do you like move past that or work through that? And I'd love to hear your journey. Sure. Yeah, I'll definitely talk more about that. So for me, it was like, it really started from this place of, like, I've been a natural, a natural, a natural flow.

So even though I'm an introvert, like I'm able to go out there and talk to people because I'm very good at giving attention and giving energy. It's this, it's like the duality of the flirt where you like you can give it. But then when it comes back to you, I find sometimes that's when people start to get anxious. That's when they start to overthink. It's like they give someone a compliment or put themselves out there. And then when it gets turned around, they're like, ooh, I don't know how to receive this attention or energy. And that was very much me like really struggling with this giving and receiving. but then also with the flirt being an in the moment connection,

like for a long time with my anxiety, that's what I was capable of. Like I could flirt in the moment and make that in the moment connection, but anything that required consistently, consistency, longevity, reliability, that's when I would start to break down, like how to keep it going past the initial flirt. So for a long time,

that was how I was able to cultivate connection in my life and just be able to meet people and have conversations because it would be in the moment, just out running errands or at the grocery store or something, you're at the gym. It's just an in the moment conversation making that connection, having a flirt, and then it's done. I didn't try and move it any like advance it past that. But then after a while it was like why I'm still craving more. I'm wanting more. I'm wanting the long-term connection to really have friends and people in my life and going on dates that I can truly

get to know someone beyond just, hey, how are you? Like, what do we have? in common, your cute kind of thing. So the flirt for me served a purpose for a long time of being able to hold connection in my life, but then being able to extend that and have relationships with people, that's where it started to evolve for me. And so I'm really happy to be able to talk about the flirt as being all about connection, but then how can you use the flirt to really extend and have long-term connections too? Totally.

And I think if anybody, for anybody who's listening, like here's a thing. when it comes to the flirting, because somebody asked, like, how do I make sure it works? And it's like, well, that's the point of this. There is no guarantee that this is going to work. Like, I'm, I remembering like when I went to Gold's gym, oh, mama would flirt all the time. Like, I would take. Because there was so, oh, my God, they were like, I was in Venice. They were crawling from the fucking walls.

Yeah. And I would, for me, like, I want to hear your do's and don'ts for sure. When I, I always had, like, I never complimented someone in their physical because I, for me, I don't like when someone comes up, like, oh, you're beautiful. it's like, no shit, that's why you're coming up and fucking talking to me. Like, I'm assuming you're attracted to me. So like for me, I always picked something about them. So like, I remember like for an example, I was at the gym and I was like, okay, like the gym is a weird place. Like you want to be really cognizant of the way that you flirt at the gym. So I remember there was like, total babe. I would see him all the time. And oh, God, I have so many examples. But this one specifically, he was at the bike next to me. And I remember he was biking. Now in my head, I'm like, okay, what can I pick about this? person. That's not how attractive he is. It's not how muscular he is. Like all of those things. Like I'm not, wow, you bike really fast. I don't fucking know. But I saw he had tattoos. And I was like, okay, so I have tattoos. So I poked him and I said, hey, can I just ask you? I'm new here.

Where'd you get those tattoos from? I'm looking for a new artist. And then he took his headphone off. I disarmed him. He was like, oh, I go here. And I was like, oh, no way. And then he said, he's like, well, where are you from? And it allowed us, 25 minutes later, now here's the funny part. It took him 25 minutes to drop me and my girlfriend. And so the minute I And I was like, all right. Here's the thing. He was being flirty. So it was like, it was hard to read.

But that's when I was like, you know what? I got off the bike and I was like, hey, so great to meet you. Like I totally brushed it off. And I was like, cool. Thank you so much for the artist. It was great to have connected. We talked about stuff. And like you said, it was a connection.

We were having a genuine and authentic conversation. Whether it worked out or not, I don't know. But I'd love to hear what are your like stand out do's and don't. Best practice is not because it's like, Lord knows I had my own, but I don't know if I was doing it right or. wrong. Yeah. So some definite dues and yeah, you definitely touched on on this is to go into it with no expectations. Because when you go into the flirt with expectations, you're wanting to have a specific result or outcome, like getting the number or whatever it is. Well, then automatically you're

engineering the flirt to move towards this specific result that you're looking for. And then you can get into the realm of overthinking, like what am I going to say next? You're trying to replay what the other person has said and like think all the way through it. You're like breaking it all down. And then you're really missing the point of the flirt, which is all about connection. So going into it with no expectations, do your best to just stay in the present moment and just get to know somebody. Like I talk about bringing BFE into the flirt, big flirt energy. And I get this like this variation of this question in common a lot, little like, is it a flirt? Is it not? Like what's a different? Small talk, conversation, banter versus flirting. Like, well, if it's,

got all the elements of the flirt, and I've got this whole flirt framework framework that I work with, then it's a flirt. And some people may disagree and be like, well, I don't know. I don't think so. But I'm like, it's okay to label something a flirt, whether it's with someone you don't know. It could even be platonically. Certainly when you're dating or in relationships, there can be romantic flirting. There's a whole variation. But just when it comes back to making that connection, like that's what the flirt is all about. So going into it with no expectations, respecting people's boundaries as well. I'm always a fan of doing some nonverbal flirting first, trying to get their attention with eye contact, body language, smiling is great. If eye contact is not your favorite thing or you're just not super good at that, don't feel

comfortable with that. Using like waving or something like that or just somehow getting someone's attention is going to be a great way to do it just to start to build that trust a little bit so you're not just advancing on someone right away. And then I love when the flirt is also an intuitively driven process. That's part of my flirt framework. One of the questions I get is like, okay, well, what do I say? Sort of like, how do I flirt? What are the words I'm going to use?

And I could give you a pickup line. Like, I could give you an opener. But then when you're in it, I can't have the conversation for you. And so I want people to just to feel more and more connected to their intuition so they can really feel their way through the flirt rather than. thinking their way through the flirt. So those are kind of a few doze and don'ts. I think I mixed them all up together there for just how to feel your way through the flirt.

I love that, though, because I think like you're saying, the ultimate, the end goal here is like showing up authentically. Like if you're going to show up and try to flirt with somebody, it's like, like for me, I will just, like, I'll give you an example even like, this is what comes off as flirty. It's like, you know, you're at a restaurant and the waiter comes by the other night. You know, I was at dinner and she's pregnant. And I just looked her and I was like, do we know boy or girl? And she's just like, and it's like, and like my partner, you know, tech guy's looking

me and he's like, oh, can you just shut the fuck up? Like, you have to be so got. Like everybody, you're so fucking nice. And it's like that's where I could totally understand how like when I was single and, you know, you're talking to somebody. But like I was very cognizant about those types of things, you know, like I knew, listen, if you're talking to somebody, somebody out at a coffee shop or on the street or something like that comes up and approaches you.

You're like, okay, there's obviously something here. So I need to be cognizant. I'm not a fan of doing, because I was going to ask you, like, if you receive a flirt, I'm not a fan of doing the, like, I have a boyfriend when it's like, I don't have a boyfriend. You know what I mean? But how do you handle, like, what is your advice if you're on the receiving end of a flirt that you're like, I don't want this or I don't know what to do? Like, what do you have any recommendations on that side?

Because it can feel uncomfortable. Yeah. I mean, one place to start is like you, just because someone flirts with you doesn't mean you have to be in the space to receive that or go along with it. So sort of assessing your own energy with it. And then if you have a little bit of time, if you got some capacity, sort of indulge the flirt, look to make a connection, right? It doesn't, not always working with that assumption that it's something romantic. Like, can you just sort of be in the moment with it?

But if you're really just not there for it, like, exit the flirt. You know, it's totally okay. You're not letting someone down or rejecting them. You don't even know each other. It's just like, does this person want your number or something? They're trying to give you a compliment. Be like, oh, I got to go, right? I've got an appointment.

I'm looking at my phone. I'm looking at my watch. Like, it's okay to sort of be in that space of just moving on from the flirt if you're just not there for it. That's something I've, yeah, like people pleasing tendencies all the way. I just feel like I've got to be there. I've got to stick it out. I don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

But being in the flirt when you don't really want to be, like that could also have the same outcome of hurting someone's feelings when you're just intending to be nice. So if you're just not feeling it, exit the flirt, the best way you know how. There's no kind of like perfect way. Totally. I agree. I think, yeah, I'm always like being, you know, I don't want to hurt people. Like you said that the people pleaser of us. Oh, no, let people easy. Yeah. Says them down easy. And it's like, listen, I'm not saying that you need to be like a bull in a China shop. Like, hi, I'm not interested. It's like, yeah. But yeah, you can, like, oh, hey, well, it was great to me, you know, and like, I got to go. He always hated like, oh, God,

when I'd see guys like especially walking Clem and their dog would interact with my dog. I remember there's this one guy and like he kept to ask, like, I remember he had asked me for my number the first time and I was like, I don't really like give my number out to people that I meet on the street. Like I'm not really comfortable. And then he like every time I saw him, it was almost like at first, for the first few times he kept trying to get my attention. And then like I saw him in a coffee shop, you know, you like do the wave and he's like, remind me your name again. And I was just like, you know my fucking name. And I was just like, it's all good. Dude. I was like, hey, it's don't worry about it.

I was like, it's clear we're not friends. And like, I kind of walked away. And I was like, all right, we got to be able to differentiate between like, listen, like you said, it's not a rejection. Like if you were making an advancement and somebody is not into you, welcome to dating. That's, yeah. And this is like, yes, that's it. I wanted to know more about your framework. Like, because you mentioned it, like your flirty framework.

Like can you show more about like when you're working with somebody? They're like, there are people here that have like never flirted. they don't know what they're talking about. Like, can we start somebody from the beginning of like, how do you normally like help folks with this? Because I think a lot of people need the fucking help. Sure. Yeah, I'd love to talk about the flirt framework.

So it's an acronym. Like if you can just imagine the word flirt, we'll start with the F is framing the conversation. And it's all about being in the present moment. That's what framing the conversation is. Because I, you know, if someone is feeling anxious, right, they're starting to future pace and sort of like already assume, right, this person is not going to be interested or it's not going to go well. You're bringing your story and experience into the flirt or, yeah, some past experience.

Like, it just didn't go well. I want you to be in the present moment as much as possible. And then with the L of the flirt, we talked about this is the lack of expectations. So you can just really focus on who was in front of you, making that connection and not jump to a conclusion of how the flirt is going to go or even like you're not attaching to that outcome that you want. Just be in the moment and see how it is. And because this is something I've very much learned from you. You could be flirting with someone and be like, ooh, actually, right? Like you, you flirt and you date to have an experience and figure it out. Is this someone that I'm even perhaps compatible with? Is there energy there? And you may find when you're in the flirt, you're like, oh, yeah, this was really,

this one really is not for me. But if you have the expectation that it's going to go a certain way or like you think they're super attractive and like you want to get that date well, then you're like sort of going along with it, even if you may not want to. So going into it, lack of expectations, the I is all about intention and intuition. Sort of what is the intention behind the flirt? Why are you flirting? What, like, what's the point for you? What purpose does this serve?

Do you even want to or do you feel like you have to? Sort of what is the intention and the energy you're bringing into the flirt? And then over time with practice, having that being a more intuitively driven process, so you can get out of the realm of overthinking, right, the monkey mind and just really be in it and experience it for who you are in that moment based on who is in front of you. not every flirt is going to be the same, so you can really feel your way through it. R is all about relating and connecting to another person, just right what the flirt is all about. And then the T is, I brought this one in, this is one of my favorite aspects of the flirt.

And this is what really separates it from small talk, banter, just sort of like party conversation, anything like that. The T is tension, it's excitement, it's anticipation, it's momentum. It's all about the vibes and the energy behind the flirt. And this is what really separates it from any other form of conversation and communication. When you're in the flirt, it doesn't matter. Romantic, platonic, someone you know, someone you're just getting to know. There's an energy.

Like you start to feel alive. You start to feel warm even. Your heart starts to race a little bit. You're feeling excited, maybe even a little bit nervous. This is the energy of the flirt. And what keeps it going is building that tension, that excitement. you're like, it's a ping pong match now. What are they going to say next?

Oh my God. Now, what am I going to say next? Like you're excited. You're just viving. It's the energy. And that's what really makes the flirt a flirt is, is the T, the tension behind it. So that's how I like to break down the flirt. So if someone's like, well, am I flirting?

Like, were they flirting with me? I don't know. Does it check all the boxes to me? Then it's a flirt. I, you know what I love, I think, about the way that you struck like the breakdown because it's funny. I've never, like I love that, first of all, you've focus on the flirt because for so long, I don't think I ever did. You know what I mean? Like,

I don't think we give enough importance to like how important this is. But I also think like, as you broke it down, I literally was in like feeling in the moment of like just thinking back on past days. Obviously, I've been with my partner for a while. But like, like thinking back on those moments that you just know you're flirting. And I was like, oh my God, yeah, he's completely right. Like that tension, that moment that, oh my God, are we like, is it going to end with me getting your number? Is this going to end with us fucking? Is this going to end with you again? Like, well, like, well, That's going to happen. And I think that's the excitement that like, and I get it.

Like we've all been there. Like when you flirting with someone and then you leave and you're like, oh, you know, like somebody asked a question. Like I saw a guy. We matched eyes. Like how do you approach and flirt? And it's like, I know.

We've all been there where you leave and you're like, dang it. Like especially when I lived in New York and you'd see someone on the train. Oh, the amount of songs I could write about that of like. Yeah. Or like the train doors close and you're like, oh, the misconnection. Yeah, there it is. You're like, please, will you read it online?

Right. I think it's true. Like I really love that your whole focus here is not about like, how do you get them? It's like, well, that's ridiculous. We can't force that. But really what I love that you're focusing on is how do you empower yourself to show up authentically and at least just put your dick on the table and be like, well, this is who I am. If you like me, great. And if you don't, at least I know you don't like me for me.

Right. Yes. That's it. That's the blur. I have a question for you. Now, we obviously this is flirting in IRL. So let's talk digitally. And we all know for anyone who listens to me and know of how I feel about the texting thing.

Yeah. But I also am like, here's the thing. I am not Pollyanna, grandma where I'm like, you know, oh, don't ever text anybody. Like there was a, the Daily Mail, like did that. They posted a thing being like, this dating coach says never to text and never to respond. And I was like, I've never said that. Yeah. I was like, no one ever said that.

I was like, I'm not a fucking idiot. I'm not living under a rock. Like, would you too? I was like, but you and I. But you and I both know that, like, you can't build a relationship via text. So, but let's talk about digital in general. So somebody asked, how do I slide into the DMs? DM sliding, the social media flirt.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Like, I know about tapping on the window, like liking a bunch of stuff. Yeah. But can you walk us through a few ways of non-in-person flirting? Definitely. Yeah. So if we want to focus on social media, I'll kind of just use Instagram as the example here. I, so I made a video once about.

the five levels of flirting on social media. And so they're sort of the first level, which is like, you got to follow them. That's really, that's step one. Step two is going to be, okay, we're liking a few things. We're watching stories. We're maybe reacting. They're starting to get notifications or if you're reacting to a story, maybe they're getting a DM at that point.

Okay. So maybe they're becoming aware of us. Well, then it's like, now we're going to move to can you perhaps slide into their DMs a little bit? And then how can you do that? One way I like is whether they're aware of you or not, just coming up with a compliment is a great way to sort of get the conversation going in the DMs. Could you send them a post that they've already made? Like, wow, like I really love this post that you said or oh, I'd love to, or were they on a trip or something?

I'd love to know more about this, like been following you or somehow just ingratiating the conversation a little bit, warming them up with a compliment if they're not like maybe they haven't followed back yet or haven't started watching your stuff. So one way to slide into the DMs. Another way is like responding directly to something on their stories. So instead of just sending that reaction, maybe that comes to their DMs, can you actually like type out a response that goes directly to their DMs? If you're not ready to sort of slide in directly just yet, attaching a message to a story is a great way to do it. And so now you have their attention. You're on their radar. And then when you're when you're in the DMs, like if you're wanting to flirt, then large.

And in many ways, it's going to be the same way as if you're in person. The big difference being that it's not that true back and forth that you're in the moment, right? You have some time to think. And then the other person, where are they with their response times, right? Are they busy? How big of priority was this? It's sort of like, that's where it can sometimes fall apart just with digital communication.

But now you're in the DMs. And so that's sort of working up the levels of the flirt. If you're looking to get into the DMs, follow first, right? start to get their attention a little bit and then make that move, right? Just put yourself out there. What do you have to lose? One thing I will say, don't, one don't on this, because I'm with you on all the dues. The one don't I've learned is like, I did this.

That's why. Like, I love a, like, I love a response of a story. Like, I just think it's, especially if they post stories. Like, I was, I don't know if you watch a 90 day fiance or if that's my trash. No, I watch. Okay. Are you watching the single life? Oh, no.

So one of the couples on there, it's. Jamal, which is the son of one. Remember the woman that went to Soldier Boy? She was with him. Her son. Her son ended up sliding into the DM of one of the other women, the Tim's X, whatever. So it was like, they're on the show. And she had a photo.

And she even said, he said, like, how did you know I liked you? And she was like, you DM me, it's the eyes for me. And so then she, and then the minute she got it and he was like, you knew I liked you. She's like, the second I got it, I knew you were flirting with me. And so I was like, that's a great, like, throw it out there. Because I've had it or I'll say something like that. Like, you know, super like, I never really do this, but I just wanted to say you're super handsome or something like that. And it's like, they might not answer.

All right. What are you going to do? Like, he moves off your life. One flirt lesson I learned, which was not right, was there's just really gorgeous guy that lived in Venice. And I would see him all the time. We'd always play eyes. So I assumed he liked me because I'm living in my own fucking la la la land. And I saw that he had a new product coming out.

He was creating like a recipe or some shit like that. Okay. And I'd beamed about that. So then he was messaging me about. about his like new product that was coming out. Yeah, yeah. Then when I tried to segue into like, oh, we should like go grab a drink or something,

that was it. He kind of left me on red and I was like, yeah. Like if somebody messaged me about business and then like I've had it before, well, they'll admit like, hey, so what size should I buy in software? And I'll be like, oh, get a medium. Great. And then all of a sudden they start flirting and I'm like, you didn't care about my product.

Yeah, then I always get. That's a very good point. I've, yeah, I've been in those positions before where I'll get DMs and it seems like someone interested in coaching or in collaborating. And then, right, I'm like, I'm working towards finding that solution, right? What's going to be best for you? Are we a good fit kind of thing? And then it's like, well, when push comes to shove, I just, and then here comes the flirt. And I'm like, okay, now I feel like the bait and switch kind of thing. Like, you don't have to lead with what you think is going to

get someone's attention because, yeah, he like, he thought he, you were talking business. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like, and I think what, because the bait and switch, I think that at that point it happens is like it feels disingenuous because you're like, oh, you know, it's one thing if I'm like genuinely asking. But like for me, I remember the one time it worked was I saw the guy all around the neighborhood. I realized he was a huge influencer. And I went right forward. I DMed him saying, oh, you're the, so you're the one I saw on Abbott Kinney the other day. Nice to put a name to the face. And then he wrote back and he was like, I knew you looked familiar. And then we just, we ended up going on a date. Like nothing ends up transpired from it because he was a fuck boy and he's

still single. But nonetheless, like sometimes even just something is something is Simple was like, you know, obviously if it's not creep like this guy was an influencer, it wasn't hard to find him. But like if there's somebody, I would imagine that like we also don't want to do this if somebody like is super private. You know, like if somebody has from like 2020 and they have an update of the profile, you don't want to DM them like, hey, I just saw you because you're like, how the fuck did you find me? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good. That's a good point. This is really for someone that is going to be more active. Like they're at least posting with some regularity. They're in the stories. Like you know they're on the app. They're using it. For sure. And now can I ask, so this was some Insta questions. Flirting via text. So now we're going just via text, creative ways to build connection.

Yeah. So I love, I get this question a lot with the long distance relationship. Like it kind of ties in together. And so when you're texting, like, yeah, it's digital communication. But think about all the ways you can communicate digitally. I love voice notes, like voice memos, a great way. I always talk about like no affiliation, but the app Marco Polo. a free version. It's right, you can send videos back and forth. So if you're not a

textor, you just don't want to be typing and you want to do more video, but you don't want to send like, you know, always be on FaceTime or something. Marco Polo, great option. Another one I really love is to play some kind of digital game. The example I usually use is like words with friend or something, words with friends. I used to play that all the time with my grandma. But like you're in like you're taking turns. And so maybe you're not always communicating like, hey, how are you kind of thing and sending messages, but you're connecting, you're interacting with one another. And then you can put in the chat of that game like, oh, that was a great move, right? I can't believe you scored so many points. You got me there

kind of thing. So thinking about all the ways that you can flirt and connect and communicate digitally, right? It's not just about the texting. There are so many ways to do it. Can you send social media posts, podcast, memes, pictures, selfies, right? If someone is more visual, And then learning about how the person you're flirting with likes to communicate. And really just exploring that and having a conversation about it can also be a great way to flirt as you learn more about somebody. I do love that. I'm a big, I'm a video girl. Voice notes sometimes, obviously, I don't want to impede.

Like, I know some people like my partner would shoot me in the face if I did that. But a video, I used to do that all the time, especially for me on the apps. And I didn't really know them. Like, if I, like, I remember once like this guide, we had mess. We were making plans. And he was like, what are you up to today? And I like sent a video and I was like, I am here, blah, blah. And he even messaged me back and he was like, that actually made me feel a lot more connected to you.

He's like, thanks for letting me put a name to the face. Because then when we met, it wasn't, oh, God, is she boring? He was like, I remember him even saying he was like, that video helped me get more excited about our date because I saw your personality. Yeah. When you might not be able to. So I'm huge. I'm big on that. I actually love.

I love the video too. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, because you can get the nuance. You can get the facial expressions. You can get the energy. And it's more, you know, as opposed to like putting in the thought behind the text, then you're like, okay, am I going to hit send?

Am I going to edit that? Like change something? Record the video and just go with it. It's sort of like you can really be in the moment with it. Especially when you're a sarcastic asshole like me who I could say something and a text and you could be like, what the fuck? Yeah, I can miss context for sure for two for sure. Exactly.

It's like, oh, right. So now another question that I'm loving a lot of the questions people had asked on social, red flags to watch out for when someone is over. overly flirty. Hmm. Yeah, red flags, when someone is just, like, it's not, not being able to take no for an answer kind of thing. Like when someone is just like in your space, in your face, like you are trying to exit

the flirt, like sort of politely let them down or sort of like set that boundary for yourself and they're just not hearing you. They're not accepting it. Like that's, oh, God, big red flag. And then when someone is coming on initially, kind of too strong. Back to the example, you use like,

you know, I try and be careful with this language of too much. Like, I don't want people to feel like they're too much, but there is such a thing as going from zero to 100 very fast.

Like you've never met someone, never had a conversation or interaction with them. And you're like, what's your number? Like, what's your social? Like, let's slow it down a little bit.

Like, to me, it's like, well, are they just like super direct? And that's sort of, sort of the only way they know how to flirt. maybe, but start to build that connection a little bit first because then I'm like, well, are they

interested in getting to know me or do they just want something from me? That's when I get to be a little bit skeptical about that style of flirting. And then like another sort of red flag is like the kind of like if you're in a party or more of a social situation, it's sort of like the group mentality kind of thing. Like if it's a one to many, like you see. You see. like I like it to be more a one to one. And so like how it's like if you're at a party and sort of like the person is coming up to flirt with you kind of thing. And then like they're sort of always going back to their friends, maybe to get hyped up. But then it can be like in your mind, what are they talking about?

Like are they talking about me kind of thing? Maybe that puts you sort of on guard a little bit. So just doing your best to make it just a one on one connection. That's something maybe not quite a red flag, but something that I look for in the flirt. can I just like age myself for a second? As you said, like at a party and I was like, I don't remember the last time I went to a party. Like when was the last time I went to like a social gathering where I met?

New York opposite. I miss those days of like, going to a house party and seeing the guy across the room and you're like, who the fuck is that? Who is that? That's who I'm hanging out with tonight. It's like I will, I'm like, I will, the first thing I do is I'm like, is he single?

Like I'll find out and I'm like, who is this? And it's like, then you just kind of meander around. But one thing, as I asked you the question, the first thing that came to mind for me was, I remember being with a friend and she was on, I think it's like a second or third date. Like it wasn't, it was very early on.

So much of the future planning shit. Our kids would be so good looking. And I was like, uh-uh, motherfuckerucker. Nah, nah, I was like,

you don't fucking know this girl. You have no. Oh, we know, I want to get you this for Christmas. And I'm like, it's February. Oh my God.

You know what I mean? I was like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Too much of that of like, oh, we should do this. Oh,

you've been to Spain. oh, well, I love, we should go to Spain. You're like, I don't even know if I'm going to get coffee with you. Yeah, that's some love bombing energy right there. Yeah, especially second or third date, even, no. No. For Christmas in February? No.

No. It's like, then at that point I'm like, no, then that's when I'm like, are we connecting or are you just attaching to me? Because this doesn't feel like a true connection. So, yeah, I, the one thing, okay, here's another question that I thought was really good. How to keep it flirty and avoid friend vibes? Yeah. Yeah, this is, this is a question I get a lot.

Okay, I want to answer this one with, so I made up another thing. Awesome. Which is the five dimensions of the flirt. So the flirt happens in five dimensions. There's the intellectual dimension, the emotional dimension, the energetic dimension, the spiritual dimension, and the physical dimension. To get out of the friend zone and to avoid the friend vibes, you have got to flirt in the physical dimension. there has got to be some type of chemistry, some type of physical attraction there.

The other person has got to know that like, hey, I think you're cute, beautiful, pretty handsome, whatever, whoever you're flirting with, you've got to flirt in the physical dimension. If someone is not flirting with you in that way, they have either friends own you or they're being like very tepid, sort of trepidious about it, they're unsure. But either way, they're not willing to go there with you and meet you where you're at. So there's a little bit of mismatch with the flirt energy you're both bringing. So to avoid that friend zone, there's got to be some flirting in the physical dimension. There's got to be some of that chemistry there.

100%. I asked tech guy yesterday. I was like, we were talking about our first date. And he was like, I knew you wanted to fuck me. And I was like, how'd you go? And he was like, when we were in the car going back, he was like, you kept touching my leg. And he was like, you were very subtle. He was like, it wasn't like overly.

And he was like, but every time he was like, you would touch my shoulder. you touched my leg and he was like, I knew that you were kind of gearing up. And then like when we got there, it was like, my flirt was like, I laid on his bed. And I was just like, oh, you know, he was like, do you want to go to dinner? Because we went to drop off the dog, get changed and leave. And I said, you know, I was like, why don't we just like hang out for a minute? You were like, I knew at that point. Like that was it.

Yeah. I'm not saying everyone is still like, listen, I fucked my boyfriend on the first date. Not saying that you have to do that. But I agree with you. Even just like I tell anybody, if you're unsure about how you feel about somebody on a date, I don't care. Let's see if your arm. touch, do you move away?

You know, like, like you said, bringing into the physical, like my friend, she got a date. The legs touch and she's like, I kept moving my leg and I was like, that's it. Like there was something off and sure enough, she like wasn't feeling it. Yeah. So I really love that tip of like bringing into the physical, even something subtle of touching someone's shoulder. Yes.

Yes. It can be a very, yeah, even with just with words, with compliments kind of thing with your language or yeah, very just sort of even P. Yeah, PG physical touch. Yeah, arm top of shoulder, sort of the top of. of the knee kind of thing, like some very, like the likely safe spaces just to sort of build that trust around physical touch, right? And then how does the other person respond? If they move away, if they're not reciprocating, well, they're not feeling it for some reason.

100%. It's like body language, like you said, like those even just the nonverbal cues, but like body language is it, it's funny because like for so long I didn't take like pay attention to people's body language until I was remembering this one guy that I dated right before tech guy and, I remember us being out and having this really like in-depth conversation and me being like, oh, my God. But then when I thought back, because in the next day, he ended it. And I was like, I'm so confused. Then when I thought back, I'll never forget, he was sitting kind of cornered up with his arms crossed, really guarded.

And I was super open. I was facing him and talking to him. And he hid me the next day. And I was like, oh, my God, I didn't even realize how uncomfortable he was. Like, I didn't pay attention to the fact that, like, he was just kind of closed off. And like even what we were trying to kiss, like you could just see. I was like there was just kind of something missing there. Yeah.

Body language is fascinating. People can just act or interact subconsciously through their body language and sort of just where they're at on any given day. It's yeah, body language is, it's interesting. Yeah, I went on a date not too long ago with this guy. And like, I'm like, I'm going to have my shirt open a little bit. That's just what I'm going to do on a date. And like he was like looking at the chest.

when I would talk, he would make eye contact, and then his eyes would always go back down to my lips kind of thing. And then sure enough, he like alluded that he wanted to kiss me. And I was like, okay, we've got some physical energy in the flirt here. And yes, I kissed them after the day. Yeah. I love a kiss. I love a first day kiss. Oh, me too, me too.

For anybody that's not into it, like, that's mine. That's your prerogative. Yeah. I love a good end of night kiss where you're like, you. But I love that. Even like you said, a big thing I noticed was like, anytime I wanted a guy to kiss me, I was always playing with my lips or licking them. Yep.

Yep. Every time, it's like if somebody's constantly playing with their mouth and staring at you while they're doing it. Yes. Sure enough, I could almost put my money on it. That person wants you to do something. Yeah, same. 99.9% of the time.

And like, I have no shame. I would do that like where I'd look at them and I'd be like, I really want to fucking kiss you right now. You know, like, and I had one guy and he was like, he was like, fucking do it. And I remember I was like, God, this is hot. And we just like, yeah, it was really. This was the guy that I said it was DMs and had a one date. Like, it was really hot.

It was sexy. like didn't pan out. And it was like because it just didn't work out. But it was like, nonetheless, I enjoyed my fucking night. Yeah. That's what matters. And sometimes it can be just that. A fun first date. A fun night. Um, yeah, no harm, no foul kind of thing. You don't know until until you try. 100%. Now, my last question from that people asked, what I have for you is obviously if you're, you're in the LGBTQ community. So how do you flirt about the gender? Because like, I know my partner. The gays love him. Oh my God. They love him. And I'm like, their heart is brunt. every time this beautiful man, like says no, but I'm like, what would you suggest, obviously,

being in this world? Like, what do you have to suggest for women or men? It's, uh, this one, it's so, so tricky. Um, and I'm always a little bit hesitant to answer this because sexuality and gender is really fluid, depending on where you live. I give you're in a bigger city or what state you live in. It's so, it's so variable. And then also, I'm always just really aware of where someone is that with their own story, like maybe they haven't fully accepted who they are or they're not out yet, or they're still exploring it. And so putting someone on the spot in that way, someone, like, if you, like, if you ask, like, I'm out there with it and I'm totally cool with it, you want to ask me no big deal. But if, like, even, I don't know, 10 years ago, it may have been a different

story. And so I'm always always thinking about where is someone at and how can you find that out if maybe they're not ready to tell that information. So like some like sort of subtle clues might be with clothing, clothing and aesthetic and style. Like, are they wearing perhaps jewelry? Do you see the pride pen or a trans flag or something like that? Something that might give you a clue. Do they have a tattoo? Something like that, even a bumper sticker on their car. Could be anything. Is there, are there some subtle clues that you could pick up on? And then just starting to open it up into a conversation. One way, like, if you're really trying to figure out, is share part of your story first, first, like about where you're at. Like, oh, my God, I went on this first day with a guy the other day.

Like, you know, someone that you kind of have a little bit of rapport with, something that you know a little bit. And so you're sharing a bit of your story and then inviting the other person to then be a part of your story with you. And so in that way, it becomes a little bit more inclusive. But at the end of the day, like, if someone is not ready to share that information with you, it's just they just may not be ready. So I know, like, it's fully, I totally get it. Like, I want, I see a guy that's cute or something. I want to flirt with him. What team does he play on?

Like, is he on my team? I just want to fucking know. Like, is he gay or not? Well, I don't know. Either way, you can still flirt. Like, you can still flirt because you're going into it without the expectations just in the moment looking to make that connection. And as long as you say focused on that, their sexuality, their gender identification is, it will reveal itself if it's meant to reveal itself in time. So I hope that was a helpful answer.

One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room. Running a business means moving in many directions all the time. TD's new small business banking accounts are built for how your business moves. It's how we're making banking more human. I actually, no, I love that you even brought about, like, sharing your story. Like, it reminds me of when I was talking about the guy at the gym with the bike. Like, the reason he told me at a girlfriend was because I mentioned to him, like,

yeah, you know, I'd gone on a date with this guy. Like, I brought up that I was single. And so then, and at first, and then he, like, eventually was like, oh yeah my girlfriend and I was like got it there it is we weren't offering this information nope but because I'm kind of the same like if there's a guy that approaches me like I had a guy the other day approached me on the street and he was like I just wanted to tell you you're really beautiful and I was like wow thank you so much yeah and then then he and like he walked away and I just I didn't need to be like I have a boyfriend it was just right it was just an innocent like he

also had guys that will stop and they're like you're really beautiful can I take you out and I'm like I'm sorry I have a boyfriend I actually had one guy I'll never forget he was like wow really do you. And I remember just looking at him and I was like, go fuck yourself. Seriously, get out of here with that. Yeah. I was like, yikes, rejection much. So that's why I was like, no, no, no. We don't need to be catty. We don't need to be anything like that. If you're going to, listen, I have respect. If you're going to put yourself out there, I have so much respect for you. I lose the respect when you act like a fucking child because it didn't go your way. Yeah. Yes. Expectations. Oh, Benjamin. Thank you so much for being with us. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited.

I wanted to see last question before we kind of think. Okay. Any advice that you have for anybody that is struggling and feeling discouraged in the flirting and the dating, like anything that you can share to like just give a little pep talk because I love your pet talks. Sure. So, I mean, I can so relate to this and just no matter where you're coming from with the flirt, with your experience, your story, sort of wherever you're at, one thing that can really help

is just starting to microflirt. I love this so much. And this is what I used to do. So it's your outrunning errands. You hold the door for someone and then you just offer someone a compliment, like, love your jacket kind of thing. Or I do this all the time when I'm working at my shifts at Trader Joe's. I'm at the checkout line. And I'm just sort of like working with observations is a great way to microflirt.

If you're just unsure what to say, where are you? What is around you? What can you observe? So, what are we making for dinner tonight, right? Are they wearing a logo, an emblem, a sports hat or whatever? Like, can you ask them a question about that? So just looking to make those in the moment micro flirting type of connection. if you're starting to build up your confidence to asking someone on a date or sliding into the DMs

or you want to talk to your crush or someone you think is cute is going to be at a party later or something like that. It's like it's okay if you're not there just yet. It all comes with experience and practice. And over time, you'll get there. It's just all about bringing the energy of the flirt into as many connections as you would like. I love the observation thing. I used to do that with a whoop all the time at the gym. Oh, you have a whoop. Like, do you like the new. one like even if because even if the whole point of it was like they don't know that I'm flirting because if they're doing like when a guy does that like uh yeah and then puts his headphone on I'm like thanks just wanted to know I fuck off I'm like cool you have made it so clear that you're

not interested yeah totally cool and it's like sometimes we have to take up we have to pick up on those cues and not attack ourselves just like hey what you can do you try you thought they flirted you tried it didn't work out no part of the taking a risk is part of it putting yourself out there and the more you practice that, yeah, like the sting of rejection or being let down, it's like if you're not, depending on where you're at, yeah, it's going to hurt at least a little bit, but you're going to become more resilient to it over time. It's not about that you will never be rejected again or let down again, but you'll become more resilient to that experience and like, hey, I put myself out there. I tried. I'm not at least an hour later,

a day later overthinking and playing through the situation, right? Fully in my delulu of like what could have happened. Let's get cleared. let's get answers and just put ourselves out there and give it a try. I love it. Thank you so much for bestowing your wisdom. Where can people find you? I'll have everything in the show notes, but regardless. This, well, thank you so much, Sabrina. I just adore you.

And I'm a fan of the pod and a fan of you. And this was so freaking cool. So thank you so much for just allow me to be here and giving me the opportunity. I'm all up on flirt talk and flirtstagram at Benjamin Cameras. Those are my socials. I'd love to see you on there. A great place to start is downloading my free Flirt Styles quiz and Confidence Guide.

All free. Take the quiz. Find your Flirt Style. Download the Confidence Guide, which is linked at the end of that quiz. And that's a great place to start. And I'd love to see everyone, yeah, on the socials. Flort Friday every Friday,

if you want to ask me a question and join me on live on Flirtstagram. Oh, I love that. Okay, perfect. And I'll link everything so that people can find you wherever. Sweet. Hey, thank you so much for coming on, Benjamin. Thank you so much. Thank you.