The Sabrina Zohar Show - 62: Love/social media addiction and what’s happening in the brain during rejection with Neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank!

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

On this weeks episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina is joined by Neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank! Sabrina and Britt chat about love and social media addiction, the addiction cycle and what happens in your brain during rejection! Snag Britts workbook HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. And welcome to another episode of Do the Work podcast. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. I am so excited to have somebody on for part two, somebody very, very near and dear to me. And honestly, somebody who has shed so much light on how the brain works, growth, and just I've learned so much from her. And so I'm so excited to welcome Britt Frank back on to the podcast. Britt is seriously like one of my favorite human beings. She's just incredible.

and she is a wealth of knowledge. Her new workbook, The Science of Stuck. So I'm a big fan of her book, The Science of Stuck, and her new workbook comes out. And, like, guys, I got a preview of it. This thing is jam packed with some of the best tools and reframes that I have personally ever seen in this field. So, like, I am beyond excited for this to come out.

Link and show notes, if you want to snag your order, pre-order, and support Brett. I could not encourage this site enough. And tomorrow's her birthday. So, yay, let's support. and love. I'm just so excited. Today, you guys, we're talking about addiction cycles, not drug and alcohol addiction cycles, though it is very similar parts of the brain, but the love addiction, social media addiction, and what's happening in your brain throughout it all and what happens

in your brain through rejection. So Britt is bestowing so much wisdom onto us, and I am so excited. So guys, before we get started to the episode, I just wanted to again, just thank you guys. I've been struggling the last few weeks personally just with my own mental health and with my own own self-limiting beliefs and my own reaffirmations of bullshit thinking and having you guys there and just the support has meant the world. So like if you guys think that it's that you're benefiting from this, it's also me. I benefit and I grow and I learn and I get my cup filled every fucking time I interact with you guys and do this and I'm I'm grateful. You know, I understand. I know there's some audio issues and the video is delayed and the fucking website is a month behind and the course is

taking a minute longer and the bonus content's delayed. All of those to say that I still am here putting one foot in front of the other. Every day I'm a fucking human, just like you guys who has issues, who has hiccups, who has setbacks, and who has their own limiting beliefs. So part of doing this work isn't that you're going to be perfect. It doesn't exist. What it means, though, is that you're learning tools to be able to handle this and so that the baby with the bathwater doesn't all go out the window. So I just wanted to share that and normalize that like it's totally okay to feel sad and bummed some days and to struggle. Like, you're a human. And so I just want to make sure that we are making space for that. So, all right, I'll shut my leg, fucking mouth for now. But as always,

thank you guys. Please do not forget to rate the show. Please, please, please, if you go to Spotify, three dots at the top, or if you go to Apple and you scroll to the bottom, I hear radio, Dizer, wherever you're listening, truly, that is the only way I can grow is by listening to the entirety of the episode, sharing it with a friend and just rating it. So luckily, all fun free shit. And guys, don't forget to follow along on the socials. Tick-Tac, Sabrina. so hard if TikTok shows my content. You just never know these days. And on Do the Work Podcast on Insta, again, all the links are on the show notes. But that way, you can also ask questions. So I ask you guys questions on social on Do the Work podcast so you can chime in.

And that way can answer things for you. So I'm really excited. Thank you guys for everything. Thank you for everyone who's been here along the journey from the beginning. You're fucking awesome. And to everybody new, welcome or wherever you're along the way, you're now part of this family. And we're just so grateful to have you. So without further ado, let's get right on into it. Oh my God, Britt, we are in person. We are live. I'm so excited to have you in the studio. You're real.

You're like a human beyond a square. It's so good to see you in person. You too, dude. I'm so excited. Today we've got, I mean, obviously part two. You're the one of the first, like the few people took beyond for a part two. So I'm so excited. That's how much I loved our part one.

It was so fun. It was so good. So today I think something that is really, really important for us to talk about is addiction in different ways. Not just the traditional like drug addict, alcohol, things like that, which like absolutely we will talk about. But I think like the addiction cycles in relationships and dating. And I think I kind of just wanted to like, well, first off, let's dive in for you to introduce yourself to anybody who doesn't know you.

But before we dive in, I am just super curious and excited to like hear your history with working with different addictions and like how you see them manifest in different ways. So of course I have no hot mess history of being a love addict or a sex addict or a drug addict or train wreck. I'm just a clinician with a shiny degree in letters after my name. No, I was a train wreck. All of the addictions. It's like pick one. When people say, how long have you been sober? I'm like, I don't count days because I was addicted to so many different things. And so I came to the therapy world out of the advertising production world like through my own recovery. It was not like, let me help people, even though that's great. It was, oh my God, this is so fascinating. Like this is so interesting. I just think

Everyone should know everything about all of this. But it's fascinating because the addiction world is very specific. And people think if I'm not shooting heroin on the street, I am not one of those people. But we all have brains. And our brains are all filled with chemicals. And it is amazing how the addiction thing can creep in, even to people who don't identify as addicts. But yeah, I'm a therapist and a recovering mess of a human. And I wrote a book about being stuck and how to get unstuck.

and that's me. I love that. By the way, I refer that, but the science is stuck all the fucking time. Thanks. Because I love that you took something so complex,

like neuroscience, by the way, I don't know about you. I've been nerding the fuck out on it. I'm loving like the amygdala and how that starts to fire on, the prefrontal cortex. Like the just, and I would love if you can like give me

just anything more on this because I'm like hungry for it. But I agree with you. Like starting, I mean, for me, I guess now in hindsight, I didn't realize that I was a sex addict.

In a way, not like the obvious where I was like, I had to get laid. Otherwise, I'd fuck any stranger. I use that as a way of connecting with people. And that's how, like, I mean, I look back on my New York days. I'm like, I actually thought about this the other day. I was like, I had sex with three people in one day. Like early 20s. Anybody out there that's going to shame me, you can go fuck yourself. This is me being vulnerable and honest about when I was 21 living in New York, like having a great time being so anxious and so fucked up mentally. I didn't

know which way was up and down and right. But yeah. But I'd love to talk about like, can we just talk about the process of the addiction more than just like drugs and alcohol. Yeah. And our brain is like a little drug dealer. Now, I'm a big advocate of our brains are on our side. Everything that our brains do is in service of us being alive. Like brains are not wired for happiness, health, and love. They're wired for don't die. Yeah. That's it. It's a binary. If you're not dead, your brain's like, yay, good. Whatever you're doing, keep going. Like, yeah, you're stalking someone's social media and you're staying up all night and you're dating bad people and you're answering the, hey, you up text. Your brain's like, great, you're not dead. Let's keep doing the thing. And so when people are like, I'm not an addict,

I'm like, yeah, but what are you doing? Are you doing things you don't want to be doing? Are you doing them despite negative consequences? And are you continuing to do them more and more? That is the definition of addiction. Now, I've had people push back and send me very angry messages, you're invalidating people with real addiction. I'm like, I smoked crystal meth out of a fucking light bulb. So no, I'm not invalidating the real drug addicts. I'm saying people are suffering. The reason our industry exists and why dating is such a shit show is because no one is factoring in the brain science of addiction into the process. Why am I doing the thing? It's like, that's addiction. No, no, no, no, no, but I love him.

I got you, but that's also addiction. Our brains are very, very crafty. But they're not out to get us. They're trying to help us. And they're really not very, I heard someone say, Michelle Masters, she's like, your brain has like the operating software of whenever you were six. Whatever year you were six years old, that's like a phone that has not updated since that year. So no wonder everything is going to shit.

And it's so funny because, like, the one thing, so it's funny. One, I did a video yesterday about like a PEP talk. And it was the same thing of like me just sharing my experience. And I had an email, DM, same thing of like, you're so disconnected from your audience. I'm sorry that your dog died, but like some of us have real people that have died. And it sounds like you're so insensitive and you're so disconnected from reality. You just up and left and moved. Well, some of us can't, would do that financially.

And I just sat there and I was like, okay, this, obviously this person's like going through their own thing right now. And that's when you have to remove yourself and just be like, I blocked. I was like, there's no point in engaging in this. Like if you're going to attack some person because you don't know our circumstances and our situations, it's fine. But the one thing that I get probably more often than not is like, I had a great childhood. No, this isn't come. I learned this behavior when I was 25 dating a narcissist and that's it. And it's like, now non-clinician, I'm like, all right, you know, here I am.

Can we talk clinically from the goddamn brain like how this actually gets formed when you're a child? I'm going to get into so much trouble for saying this and so are you. but I can back it up and I will back it up. So if you had a great childhood and your parents were awesome, I'm really happy for you. Like, good. Good. That's awesome. And I'm not trying to hunt for traumas that never happens.

Right. However, all parents are human and all humans mess shit up. If you had a great childhood and you are dating the same sociopathic narcissist over and over, some things got missed. People who grew up securely attached do not. not attract or retain or stay in relationships with toxic people. It does not happen. So I didn't even realize I had a bad childhood until I looked at my dating history. Like, wait a second, there's something not adding up here. But it's not about let's demonize your parents. Like,

I'm sure they were great. I'm sure they did the best they could. But your dating history is pointing towards a wound. Right. And that wound did happen in childhood. Sorry, it's not like I was fine. And then at 18, suddenly I decided to start dating crazy. There are no crazy people, disclaimer. I started to date crazy making gaslighting type of people. It's like, can we just deal with the impact of your childhood without going into, but the impulse to defend our families is also a neurologically hardwired thing. So we have to undo that first.

Can we talk about like, because when we think about addiction, like I'm all so interested in, yes, okay, we have human behavior, things like that. but what's actually going on like in the brain. So like when addiction takes place, like I know social media, that's a huge point of contention for a lot of people is like the, you know, I mean,

I can't stop looking at my exista. I can't stop looking at their stuff. And it's like, what's literally happening? And no one really knows with absolute certainty what's happening. We have our best guesses. But every, and social media is so much information.

And we know it's engineered to keep our attention. Like anywhere we're paying attention, someone is making money. And social media, obviously, you're getting these little pings of dopamine, of brain chemicals that are going, yes, please, more that. Yes, please, more that.

But people don't realize that even looking at something that is upsetting to you is also generating dopamine. So it's sort of like when I was doing speed, speed does not feel good after a while. But like you keep doing it because your brain is saying, we had that, we need that, give us more of that. which is why we do things that are bad for us. So a question, because I actually heard somebody say the other day and I was like, oh,

and they were like dopamine doesn't come with like, you know, the dopamine rush of getting a text. They're like, it doesn't come when you actually get the text. It's the anticipatory, like waiting for it, which makes sense as to why when you're, it's like when I smoked cigarettes. I hated smoking a cigarette. The actual act of it, I was like, but I couldn't wait to get that little stick in between my fingers. And like the anticipation of it. Now, okay, so like if we're aware of this, like, I'm pretty much trying to help people.

out there that are really fucking struggling with this social media component of dating because let's be honest like she'll have me that has fucked dating you know like you but one of my clients the other day just Friday she texts me and she's like I did the stupid mistake of looking at their profile I saw he has a new girl now I'm completely

and how can we help these people? By understanding that there is a very well defined cycle of addiction you're not like people are like why am I doing this because there's a it's documented there are textbooks there are flow charts. We didn't make this up. Like this is not just, here's like idea on how you should live your life

and manage your social media. Like on the addiction cycle, what you're talking about with the anticipation, that's called the ritualizing phase. So that's when you're getting ready to go on the date. You're packing the cigarettes. You know, for me, it's like I'm about to get my drugs from someplace. And once you're in the

ritual, I'm getting ready to do the thing, you're fucked. The door of opportunity to not do the thing is now closed. So you ritualize and then you act out, whatever that looks like. I looked at the thing. I made the call. I slept with the person. Then the shame bomb hits you. Right. And then you either vow never to do it again or whatever. And then you get back to, okay, I'm fine right now. Then you get triggered. Then you ritualized. Then you act out. Then the shame.

Then back to baseline. The time to make the changes is not when you're midstream. You have to make the changes. Right after the shame bomb hits is a good time. And then when you're at neutral before the trigger hits is also a good time. But once you're on the cycle, it's like you're on the ride. And we have to, no shame. That's just how brain's brain. So you have to sort of, I call it following my drunk friends around the bar exercise. Like once you're on that ride and you know it, it's like, okay, I'm just going to try to minimize the damage until I'm off this particular cycle. Yeah.

And then I'll try again. I love your, like, I remember where I'll never forget when you told me changed your inner monologue into an inner dialogue. I love your little like cues and little things following your friend at the bar. I know it. I've done it. I've done it. We've all done it. One thing that was huge for me was I loved DBT personally. Like that was just my modality, my way of therapy, IFS as well. But like DBT when I had my one therapist, like she really sticks out. And she would always think a future you. Think a future you. How are you going to feel? And like I think that's kind of where I was in the cycle at that neutral spot was going, wait a minute.

Okay. If I look at this profile, what's going to happen? I knew. And like that's like self-awareness. Like we all, we start to piece it all together, like the layers of everything we're teaching. It's like, hey, are you even aware of what you're doing? First step. Second step. Can you identify what you're doing? Hey, I feel shitty. And so like, I remember even Masha, and this must be the brain.

When I would get super dysregulated, the first thing I would do is go for my phone and look at Insta. And what was I doing? Validation. I needed to know, okay, well, I'm feeling low about myself. So let me go there. Ooh, yay, I have followers. I'm okay. So I even understood.

wait a minute, I'm doing this for my own, like, I was in my own cycle of addiction, constantly checking. This morning was the first morning I didn't grab my phone and look at social. Well done. Thank you. How you feel? Do you feel twitchy? Do you feel twitchy? I feel a little twitchy. I looked for like, I posted my video, but I made a rule. I was like, I am not, like, and that was for me. And I think for a lot of people listening, it's like, listen, man, are you going to the gym? Are you eating well? It's like, those are all, that's what I actually wanted to talk to you about, like, discipline. discipline with when it comes to the brain because I posted something yesterday of like real growth is like discipline. Someone was like, can you explain this further? Because I don't really understand.

Yeah. And discipline has such a bad connotation. It's like discipline does not mean beat the shit out of yourself and yell at yourself. Discipline is not about intensity. It's about consistency. And with the change process, especially with this, I want to check social media and I'm going to stock my people or whatever. Our brains don't like big. Our brains hate big. Which is why. you try to make a big change, you can't, you feel like crap, and then you repeat, repeat, repeat. So discipline is not, I'm going to make the big change. Discipline is I'm going to do something so small, it feels stupid. Like, not a baby step.

I'm talking, make it so, if you're going to go online and social media stalk someone, yeah, fine. Social media stalk them, but time yourself. Right. Time yourself. I put a boundary around it. Yeah. But time yourself for a real.

I'm going to do it for two minutes. you're not and I know you're not and you know you're not. If you're planning on stalking someone for half an hour, set your timer for 29 minutes. And the first time you do it for 29 minutes. And then the second time you do it for 26 minutes. And like with smoking, it's don't quit. Like smoke what you're going to smoke, but your last cigarette of the day put out before you get to the very end. Yeah. Little, I call the micro yeses. Our brains like small. It's like trying to shove a teabone steak down the throat of a toddler. Like you can't digest that. So, So if we want to be disciplined, we have to know how our brains handle data is small.

It's so funny because as you were talking about that, I'm like, okay, how did I quit all of my stuff? There's like, 2016, it was one of those moments where like, I will never forget. I like woke up and I like, or I remember I was like sitting on the couch with my ex. Lovely guy. Like what this guy was a Kendall, like tall, athletic, blonde, beautiful, successful. Everything that you, just not my person. And he was very like, I got into a relationship with him because I just wanted to. to be in a relationship. And it was one of those moments, you know, like, you look over and I remember

just looking at him and I just said, this isn't working. And he was like, you're right. Like we just both. And I think we like, we cried, you know, like he cleared out the house and we cried. The next day we were fine. Like I remember we were texting. He was really close with my dog when he was alive and like we ended up remaining friends. But anyways, my point being was at that moment, I remember just sitting there and I remember just looking down and I was like 30 pounds heavier than I am, like super out of weight or super out of shape, sad, depressed on medication. I was on effects are well Butrin, depocote, clonopin, Xanax. All the same time.

The well, butbutrin and the effects are different times. Wow. But I was on three at all times, one antidepressant, one anti-anxiety, and one mood stabilizer. Mind you, I'm not bipolar. Like, I've been, I've never had this diagnosis in my life since. But I had the wrong person. And again, let me disclaimer, anybody on medication, you do what you need to do. This is my personal experience.

And I am just sharing to, if it doesn't work for you, maybe talk to a doctor. That's all I'm saying here. But for me, I talked to my doctor and I said, I'm done. And I unbeknownst me quit a cold turkey. Didn't know you weren't supposed to. Yeah, I could have died. Now we find out. Never been back on again.

Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. That was me being. I just didn't know. I just thought cool. So I cut smoking. I cut that literally one day and I went paleo and I started working out.

Talk about big changes. My brain like couldn't. But you know what I realized just now as we were talking, I was like, huh, I shamed myself into this. I shamed changed myself. That's why it wasn't sustainable. That's why for so long I wasn't happy. But because I was, listen, as you were talking about those little changes and I was like, okay, what I did was not really sustainable for the average person.

That's why people can quit smoking cold turkey. But is there ever like can you like use shame, I guess, into like changing yourself? And then like, how can we reverse that so that you don't fucking shame yourself because it's not helping anybody? So shame is a very effective behavior. modifier modifier. I joined a fundamentalist cult. I am aware of the power of shame to change behavior. I love your life. Yeah, good times. 10 out of 10, don't recommend. But shame will change behavior, but shame will not change how your brain is wired in a healthy, sustainable way. So even if you quit the drugs, even, and I did, there was a time where no drugs, no boys, no nothing. And I was really not,

I wasn't even there. I was in like this dissociative. haze. So if you're just focusing on don't do the thing, yeah, you can beat yourself into that. But then what? Like if the point of all of the work that we do is to be happy, forget about happiness, just to not feel like we're being puppeteered by our addictions and compulsions. Shame doesn't get that job done. Yeah. Ever. And the question. So like if you are, so let's say we're not the person that is feeling this addiction. So like for anybody with the social media thing, like you now have confines of how you can restrict your social media intake, like set time. I think of future you.

Regulate your nervous system. Like, I think the biggest thing that I see is people don't stop to be like, how are you feeling when you're doing this? And you're just like, oh, wow, yeah, my heart is in my stomach. It's like, yeah, you're not regulated. Brain and nervous system. They're not here to help you grow. So now we know that.

But I think, wow, I'm like completely blank. I had such a great question for you. And I was like, where was I? I go into my own land and I'm like, what was I going to ask? Well, what you were just saying about the dysregulation? Thank you. And here's where brain science gets strange. Brains are freaking weird.

Like we become addicted to dysregulation is the problem. So like I go, let's say I go online and I'm looking at people that I'm comparing myself to and people that I've dated and people who are killing it that I'm jealous of. Now I'm dysregulated. But the dysregulation, like think of your brain like a little drug dealer. When you're disregulated, your little drug dealer is going to hand you a bunch of cortisol and adrenaline and it's going to shoot through your body. But then you become addicted to your stress for.

And so now we've got a double whammy. But again, it's like once you know this, that's the first step of change. If you don't know this, you're screwed. And it's not your fault. If you don't know this, we become addicted to dysregulation, which is why when you sit down to meditate and you have a panic episode, when you stop doing the thing and you get all twitchy, it's because you're now addicted to dysregulation. withdrawals in its own way. It's a real thing. The withdrawal process is not a metaphor. It's real. So there's a whole thing called post-acute withdrawal syndrome. Pause. Pause.

I was just say, yes, that was my, thank you. Yeah. And people don't know whether it's heroin, whether it's meth, whether it's the guy that you've been seeing for five seconds, it doesn't matter. Post-acute withdrawal is going to last about three weeks. And so if you do not know that you have to withdraw off of the dysfunctional stress hormones, if you don't, it's like making a good change feels like shit. And so quitting the person, not swiping all freaking night, not eating the bad whatever,

not smoking the whatever, you have to go through detox and withdrawal. And that is the first order of business. But we set ourselves up to fail. Assume for three weeks you're going to feel like shit. Right. What's the plan? You're not going to eat vegetables and make kale smoothies and go work out. I mean, maybe you will.

And that's awesome for you. But like most people need to cave to burrow. and to do comfort-seeking behaviors that aren't the thing. It's called harm reduction. Like if you're trying to stop this thing, what's the next worst thing that will keep you from doing this thing? For three weeks, you've got to stay in this zone because you're not going to get to health and happiness and love and light. From addiction, we have to go one step down and then another step down. Otherwise, our brains are going to fight us.

And can we talk because, like, obviously we know the, like, when it comes to, I know we had talked about, like, I get emails every day of like, how do I date somebody that's, like in recovery or addicted. Like I don't want to spend too long on that because I have so many other questions to ask you. Yeah. What is your advice if anybody is dealing with somebody? Like obviously if they're not getting help, you and I both know like what the answer is there. But if they're getting help, like I mean, at least for me, like my brother was a drug addict like in high school. And so I went through my mom doing N.A.

and Al-Anon and having to go through all the meetings and like my brother going, he, like my brother went to the wilderness program. Like all those fucking, yeah, all those dokey series that you watch. He went on that. He went on that for three months and then he went to a school that he's doing a documentary on how abusive the school. The school got shut down because how, and like, don't get me wrong. It saved his life. Sure. Because he needed that.

But then now I see how he behaves in his adult life and you're like, it shows. You know what I mean? Like so if we're not talking about just like the, if we're talking about, sorry, dating somebody who's in that traditional stance, I've always been in the school if that like recovery comes first. But like, how do you actually date somebody that is going through recovery like that? It's so interesting that we separate, like the people who are in active recovery, how do I date them? How do you date anybody? Because everybody has something. Not everyone has a chemical addiction, but everyone has shit.

So we, I think, and I, I'll speak for myself, I got so focused on what they were into. They're in recovery. They live with their parents. They were, you know, they had this thing as a child. They, whatever. Forget about what's going on with them. It's what is the impact of their choices. on you, what are you tolerating? What are you comfortable with? Because if we outsource the I can date

someone if they're in this particular zone, and that's it. There are people who've been in recovery for 20 years who are assholes. There are people who've been in recovery for six months who are wonderful, lovely people. So it's not just if they're in recovery, what do I do? It's what are you tolerating? What are you willing to deal with? And yes, recovery comes first. And this is what I'm about to say is so not and not romantic, but it's truth. In any relationship, you come first. Right. My marriage vows to my husband now. We said, this is not sexy or romantic, but for us, it was real and it meant a lot. Here were our vows. I choose me. I choose you. Then I choose us. And if that is not the order of operations, you're screwed. I love that. Yeah, we had fun with those. I do. Well, because like he's, it's the same

as like when I get a message of like, this guy's doing this. And it's like, so that you don't have to allow that though. Like, I think what I've really started to see, one thing I've, it's become like very crystallized is, and I get it. When I see the like, I don't have any choice and I feel like I'm beholden to this and you're, what I start to see is I'm like, when you're six, yeah, you're right. Your parents say something to you and they walk out. You're going, I don't know what to do. I can't speak up to them. I can't tell them no. I can't say this. I'm now here. What do I do? My parents just left me. I'm alone in a house. It's like, yeah, when you're six years old, you're fucked. I, and I experience When I was a kid, I can't tell you how many times I'd come home alone.

How many times at 7, 8, 9, I would come home going and there's no one there. It's like, yeah, you're helpless. You can't speak up to your parents and be like, hey, you know, when I came home from work, I didn't appreciate. Or when I came home from school, I didn't appreciate that you weren't here. No, because what's your parent going to do? My dad would have fucking hit me and been like, you ungrateful piece of shit. I was out working.

I'm not going to get anything. But then you're an adult. And I'll see this behavior of like, this guy did this. And I'm like, okay, so I'm sorry, you know you could just like walk out, right? And I think there's that it's regression is what that is. And we don't realize that our brains don't do time the way we do time. Like logically, I am this age and I have a credit card and car keys and a phone and I can tell you to fuck off and I can walk out the door. But we don't. Why? Is it because we're all just stupid and lazy and crazy? No, it's because our brains will shrink down to the age of our original wounding. So if you were six years old feeling like you can. couldn't say anything, in a relationship, your brain is going to go to that six-year-old state. So these brain states, this is what I love about the neuroscience. It's so fun.

It's why you can feel like, I can't, I don't want to upset them. Anytime as adults where we're afraid of getting in trouble, we are no longer in our, like, how old are you feeling right now is a question? I didn't learn to ask until I became a therapist. Yes. But a really good question for anyone, whether you're on social media or obsessing, is how old do you feel right now? I asked that to my sister. We had a huge fight and she was like, Sabrina, I don't have any issues with you now, from childhood. Everything is for now. And I remember

I was just like, okay, like, you know, don't fucking therapies me. And I was like, okay, okay, cool. And I remember just all I simply asked her, like a few minutes later was, how old do you feel right now? And she's like, I feel like I'm fucking 15 again. And I was like, there it is. And I knew. And I said, and then she just broke down. And like, we were able to talk and everything. But it's true. Yesterday I experienced that. I went down to tell Ryan, damn it, I keep saying his name. All right. Everybody knows his name. was fucking Ryan. It's not tech guy anymore. Like cats out of the bag. We've been together for too long. And it was the same. I went down and he was making eggs. And the first thing I noticed was,

oh, they're running. You know, and I was like, they're a little too runny for me. And then what happened in my thought? My mom's voice came in. Sabrina, don't say anything. This man just made you brunch. Be a good. Don't be rude. Just shut your mouth. Because my mom will say that. And I love hell. And I love her. Like, she came recently. And she was like, no, no, come on. Just don't, don't upset him. And I looked at her. And I was like, whoa, good girl. I was like, look at that dynamic. And, she even stopped herself. She was like, oh my God. Conditioned went right back to that. But it was so true. Like I stopped in that moment and I was like, and I didn't say anything. And then after he saw it,

and he was like, how was the egg cooked? And I was like, you know, it's funny. I didn't want to say anything. And I was like, where did I go? My dad, don't say anything because you're disrespectful. You ungrateful little. Fuck, how dare you say that you don't like the way I made something? We're all grownups. When we're all grownups, you can very respectfully request more cook on the egg. Yeah. Hey, can you just, I even told him, can you leave it on for another minute. He was like, yeah, no worries. Right. Done. Done. I created this whole entire thing. But I want to ask you now, if people are doing this, like, what is a, what is a step that they could take? First step for the brain. Not just woo-woo, like affirmations and write it on your

mirror. It's like, what can they actually do? You know me. I'm all about tools to genuinely start to see changes if you keep coming from that place of a child. When we regress, the first impulse we have, because as kids, we have no, we don't even have a fully cooked brain yet. So as kids, we want to reach out for a caregiver. If there is none presence, then we generally dissociate because kids can't really fight because they'll lose and they can't really flee because there's nowhere to go. So the first thing that we have to do in relationships is take ownership that no one is coming to save us, which really pissed me off.

And my princess parts were really bratty about that. Like super bitchy braddy. My how to lose a guy in 10 days mind is not happy about this right now. I mean, truly. Right. But we have to stop. and the first order of business when you're feeling not your current age

and the way to tell if you're not feeling your current age is are you out of, not out of regulation, that word has gotten so weaponized. Do you still feel in control of your choices? Like are you crying and losing your shit because the eggs are running or like do you notice that you're having feelings? Disengage like step one.

Do not try to interface with your partner when you are regressing unless you are like a ninja and they're a ninja and you can talk about it. get away and then ask yourself how old am I right now. And then it's what was my core need? What was the need there? What was the fear there? And then talk to that part of yourself.

Yeah. Like we peep. And again, I didn't learn this until I learned it. But like we all have voices in our heads. We all have multiple parts. I always say we all have multiple personalities. Imagine if they could all get along.

That's not the same as dissociation and dissociative identity disorder. Not talking about that. I'm talking about the little six-year-old that feels scared that the partner's going to leave. So she's going to block the door. This is what I used to do. And have tantrums. And no, don't leave me. Don't leave me.

My job is to parent that child. It's not yours. And if you need help, fine. Like, you can have friends help you with this. You can have, if you have access, therapists help you with this. Not everyone does. But the first order of business is ask yourself, how old do I feel? What does that child need?

And then in any way you have available to you, try to meet. neat. And what I love what you're doing there is like you're also firing on prefront to cortex, getting that logic going. Somebody's been studying neuroscience. But like it's true because I think that that has been a game changer for me to stop. Even in the moments of like he can, we're, he's a bit of a ninja. He can tell when I'm shutting down and he'll instantly be like, babe, what's going on? And then that prompts me to be like, right, Sabrina, you can speak to this person. You can communicate. And how I, same thing. I'm like, that's okay. Like you're not a child. You're not in this house anymore. And it's It's like I think what most people need to really understand is like this takes a lot of

it takes a lot of you saying wait a minute, I'm in control of my brain. My brain doesn't control me. My brain works for me. Like it's an employee and when it goes rogue, things tend to go sideways. But a lot of times we amp up our stress response and our brain gets a little agitated because we think we have to fight it. Like my brain works for me. That's why the term amygdala hijack, which everyone uses.

Everyone uses that. I'm like, hijack sort of implies that there are terrorists and bad things are happening. Amygdala hijack happens because your brain thinks you're about to die.

So it comes in with a blow torch to light a birthday candle. It's like, that's too big of a tool for this job. So if we can start with, my brain is not trying to kill me. It's not trying to sabotage me. It's trying to help me.

It's not doing a very good job. My job is to rewire it. But we don't start this process on like the level 10 things like relationships and addictions. We have to start with stupid stuff. Like in the morning, I just want to lay around and eat donuts and not do anything. I'm not going to go on a five mile run. Maybe I'll put my shoes by the door.

And then tomorrow maybe I'll put the left one on. And then the next day, maybe I'll put the right one on. Everyone says the same thing. How am I supposed to do anything if I'm making changes this small? This is stupid. I'm like, no, that's brain science. You have to either you're with it or you're against it. Exactly.

I can either, because I like what you're, what you're saying here is I think for a lot of people listening, it feels overwhelming of like, I'm here. How the fuck am I going to get to where you are? And it's like, okay, prime example, 2016, that was me, putting one foot, one shoe on. Me too. Me doing the, I remember getting the sweat app and doing it in my apartment and doing like a hit workout and being like, I can't do this. Like, I'm so out of shape. So I said, okay, fine, I'll do yoga. Like finding things, I started 10 minutes, then I went to 15, then I went to 20. And I think the one thing, especially for our anxious folks listening. We have people of all walks of life, but specifically the anxious folks need to understand

it's a process and it's going to take time. And for the anxiety of I'm a fear of the future and all this, it's like, I think that what you're saying is like, you need to start to learn one to trust yourself, one to rebuild a relationship with yourself. You have to show up for yourself in different ways. That's why I even started reading every night for 10 minutes. Your book started me on that, when you sent it to me. I was like, this is my promise to myself. And so now I'm like on a Brunei brabook. Like I just keep expanding and trying different books and things like that. that tech guy now every night. He's like, I want to join that. And now he started to do it. And it's like because it's not that me reading for 10 minutes every night has changed my life. That act of doing

that one thing isn't going to be what, but what that did was I started to trust myself. I started to make routines. I started to put myself first. I started to change the way that I started to see things. I was learning new things. I love what you said about keeping promises to yourself because this is how kids get all messed up and this is how we fix this in our brains now. When you break a promise to yourself, you mess up the attachment. And we all talk about attachment with other people, but like we actually need to build secure attachment with ourselves. And the way you build secure attachment with yourself is to keep promises.

But if you're making promises that are too big, like New Year's resolutions, I'm going to eat all the health and do all the workouts. Make a promise you can keep. That's why I advocate for making, forget 10 minutes, 30 seconds, do one jumping jack, if that's what it takes. read three sentences on a page if that's what it takes. I always tell people if you want to read, put a book in the bathroom. You're going to be in there for a few minutes anyway.

So you can habit stack, which is a James Clear thing. Oh, I love that, which is great. But make promises small. So I'm not going to look at my ex's social media. Like, yeah, you are. Yeah, you are. So don't break that promise. Maybe after you're done with your addiction cycle, then you call a friend and out yourself.

Maybe after you're done with your six-hour binge-a-thon of whatever, then you go for a walk. but we have to start with being honest with ourselves about our shit. Right. Without shame. It's just what's true. It's not going to be from you have never lifted a weight before to now. You're going to be beating Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's like that I always equate.

I always compare things back to the gym because it really is. It's like I'm half the time motivated. My muscles hurt. Like yesterday I worked out and I was like, I didn't want to do that. Like midway through, I was like, can I just stop? And I was like, okay, you could. There's no one here that's going to tell you anything otherwise. And I was like, but it's a promise I made to myself that I was going to get back into it.

And so same thing. I used to be able to lift for over an hour in the gym, two hours sometimes. Like I was, oh my God. I was, my ass was growing. I was deadlifting 200 pounds. Like I was fucking crushing it when I lived in Venice. Clem died. My whole world changed.

I moved to San Diego. You don't have the gym as much anymore. It's a different gym. It's a different time. You're single. I'm not single anymore. So I was going to the gym for different reasons. My life, things changed.

So instead of beating myself up and saying, oh, God, I was like, okay, you've lost a little bit of muscle. Muscle memory will come back. Let's start with 10 minutes at the gym. And so now I've been doing 10 minutes and I went to 15, 20. So now I'm at a 20 minute. Yeah. 30 minutes seems scary to me. Even though I know my body can handle it, but after 20 minutes yesterday, I'm going to

peak. Even my whoop was like, you weren't 100%. I'm like, man, you really haven't worked out. But like that's okay. It's like I had a laugh about saying it's okay. I am going to get back on the bandwagon just because you fall off. Doesn't mean that you're fuck. That's it.

Oh, I'm fucked. Just because you ate the Twinkie or you had the soda at dinner. It's like you could just pick back up and make yourself that commitment of, okay, I'll at least do a walk. Right. And often the reason we don't is because of this very insidious addiction cycle, right? And I love the gym metaphor too. No one expects leg day to feel good. No. It's like we know that's going to hurt. But people think when I break up with someone who's bad for me, I'm going to feel great. Or set a boundary. I should just feel great. Yes. Setting boundaries and making healthy relationship

choices feels worse than leg day. 100%. It's psychological leg day. It's terrible. It's going to burn, you're going to feel like you're dying, you're going to want to quit. And if you don't know that, then it's, oh my God, why do I keep doing the same thing? Because brain. Like, you don't even need to know, because your brain is braining. I actually wanted to talk. You made a statement that I was like, we need to talk about this. A good one. Oh, yeah. No, don't worry. The love addiction cycle that you were saying, you think you want a relationship. But you're actually either like was more avoidant than you. And someone said, they're like, wait, isn't that the anxious thing? Can we talk about the love addiction cycle?

Because I get this every day. I want a relationship and I'm so ready and they're not and they're not and they're not. And I'm like, you are not ready for this. Because if you were actually ready, you'd be walking the fuck away from this and going to people that are. If either more that you stay in this unavailable shit. So, Britt, talk to us more about that. I'm going to get so many angry DMs. Okay.

All right. Same. I can't fucking wait. Hold my beer. Here we go. So this blew my mind when I learned this as a clinician. and in recovery. I used to think that like the sex addict was of intimacy avoidance and the love addict all they wanted was to be loved and like, yes, we all need to. On paper, yeah. On paper. But we forget

that our brains have lots of different systems and our logic. I want a relation. And I said the same thing. I would have been diagnosed with what I was what's called borderline personality disorder. Same. 20 years of that. Yeah. I get it. That's a whole other topic if we want to do a part three. I was going to say, yeah, because I've never, we've never talked about that. That's a thing. Coming back for that. As a love addict, I would have gone. I would have taken punches.

I want a relationship. I want to be loved. I want intimacy. I'm ready. I'm so here for this. Same partner over and over. Because a love addicts, the last thing that's actually what they want is intimacy because it's the scariest thing.

Oh, yeah. So it's why can't I find a relationship. I'm ready. But I wasn't. I wasn't lying. Like, yes, I want it. wanted to be, but I have like this whole other region of my brain that's saying, no, fuck that. Because if you look at my partners, if I was really available and ready, I wouldn't be choosing

unavailable people. The sex addict's greatest fear is not intimacy. The sex addict's greatest fear is abandonments. The love addict's greatest fear is intimacy. It really is kind of like a wait, wait, what? Yeah. But just look at your choice of partners. If everyone you're dating is unavailable, what is the comments?

And again, no shame. It's like, let's just look at what's true. If you keep picking the same person, you have a wound. It's not that there's anything wrong with you. It's like you have a wound. Yeah, it's probably about childhood. It doesn't matter what your parents meant or how hard they worked or how much they loved you. It's like they missed a few things.

Like, can that just be okay? It's like having a giant gash in your arm and having flies. And it's like, well, if you don't handle the wound, you're just going to keep getting the shit. And it's not going to heal. It's so gross. It's true. It's true. But it's like, so true.

But it's like kind of that. I was the same for so long. I remember my sister, because she's been married for, that bitch met her husband at 18, like 19. You know, they were kids. Wow. They've been together for 20 plus years. And they're like, very in love.

And you're just like, okay, well, hey, not all this have that. You know, so I grew up, thank God, truthfully, thank God I had them as a couple because if I didn't have them as what healthy, like what love looked like, genuinely, I never would have understood. But I remember probably like beginning of 2022, my sister had a sat sit down with me. And she was like, you're the common denominator. Like, I'm sorry. And I remember being like, you just don't get me.

Yeah. You have no idea. You've never fucking dated, Jamie. Have you ever been ghosted? You have no. No, granted, that's valid. Like when she would give me certain things, I'm like, Jamie, you've never, Have you ever gone on a date and have a guy never call you again after hooking up?

Like, no, you met your partner early. You had two partners ever in your life. That ship sailed for me a long time ago. Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many years ago. And like I said, you Andrew Tates out there that want to fucking come at me. Good luck. I've got a boyfriend.

I'm happy and our sex life is great. But nonetheless, I think, you know, for so long I kept, you know, you try to think, especially somebody anxious of like, you just don't get me. You just don't understand. Put me on the island. Until I started to realize, like, once I actually like, I, so in 2022, I told my dad off. I stood up to the big bad wolf. Literally, the one person I was terrified all of my life actually leaving me.

I am the one that was like, fuck you. I'm done with this. I changed the way I dated after that. I was no longer scared. What are you scared of losing when you lose the one person? that represents all of this. But it was true. Like I would shame myself at first for having these boundaries.

And people would say, well, blah, blah. And it's like, well, wait a minute. It worked. Like having these boundaries and setting that up doesn't mean that just because it doesn't work out that you're like, oh, that's it. You're fucked. It's like, no, that just means that it's, you got to keep doing it because for 32 years I was doing something that wasn't working.

Well, if I'm going to try something new, it's going to be really weird and uncomfortable. But, yeah, when I saw the guys that were avoided, yeah, just because they text me every day. but they weren't there when my dog died. Huh. Yeah. I was good. I had no issues of being like, you know what,

I'm good. I'm going to walk away from this. Because why was I going to try to get blood from a stone? If I'm emotionally available and I know how I feel, you acting up is going to be a huge turnoff to me. Which comes down to like worthiness,

which is like a real bummer. Like I'm sorry, but people that are connect, not everybody feels their inherent sense of worth and value every second of the day. But people who are connected to their sense of worth, birth, don't tolerate that kind of shit.

They just don't. And I did for years and years and years because there's a part of your brain, like the easy way, I'm a, I love metaphors. If you're buying a new car, like let's say you want to buy like a Toyota, you're going to see Toyotas everywhere. If you're buying a new house, you're going to see for sale signs everywhere. It's not that all of this shit just suddenly appeared. It's that your brain, like you programmed it.

I want a car. Now I'm going to look for it. Like our brains need to be told what to look for. If you're dating the same person, you're dating the same person. it's because your brain got programmed that this is what's familiar. So when, and again, I was really horrified to discover when I changed the programming and I started dating healthy people, I had the most, I had to do a lot of therapy to tolerate the physical discomfort of dating healthy people. Especially someone that likes you and you're like, what do you mean you like me? Like what's wrong with you?

And it's like, I get that. Why is healthy equal boring? It's like, you have to retrain your system. Or the first time someone sets a healthy boundary. I remember the first time my husband, bless his heart, was just very calmly and very, like, adults was like, okay, I'm not really available for this conversation. I love you. And I'm going to go and I'll be back in a few hours. I'm like, you know, how dare you have a boundary? Now, I had done enough therapy that I didn't chase at that point. But making new programming decisions when it comes to our partners before it feels great is going to feel like you're dying. That's why, like, when I say sit in the discomfort, I'm like. Yes. Like I get so many people and they're like, what does it mean? It's like, what that means is this. When I started dating tech guy and he gave me the boundary of when I said, I want to text more.

And he said, this is not a sign of my disinterest. I'm not interested in that. I want a real relationship in person. I'm not interested. He was like, I work in tech nine hours a day. The last thing I want to do is have a mini phone in my hand. He said, this is me just setting a boundary. That doesn't work for you.

I respect it. But I would genuinely love to get to know you in person. So me on the other side of this being like, wait a minute. So my core belief is, see, he hasn't text me. He hasn't like me. well no that was just discredited he said this is not a sign of my disinterest i actually really like you okay you're setting a boundary so you're telling me no okay well that's weird for me and i i sat there and i was like yeah i could have done the like fuck you you piece of shit like i want what i want what and fuck but instead

i was like you know what this guy's making some valid points i was like let me sit in my discomfort for what's coming up for me to grow a little bit of a resistance to this because then that's when all of these things started to change where i was like huh for 20 years of dating i thought texting meant this. And now you're showing me it doesn't. And it's like, yeah, I had to completely reprogram my entire fucking way of being. Or realize that that's not compatible. And again, compatibility does not sound sexy, but I'm not a texter at all. Like I, I hate texting. And frankly, because I'm a therapist at the end of the day, I don't like talking. I've spent all damn day doing this. Holding space for you and talking about emotions. Yeah. Now, if I was with somebody

who wanted to talk at the end of the day and text all day, that doesn't mean that's really. That's wrong. It's just not compatible. And if I dated that person and I did, it's like, why are we fighting all of the time? It's like they're not necessarily wrong. It's just you two are not compatible. I want to be compatible, but I really like him. That's great. But if you're a textor and you're a constant contact person and he's not, that's not ever going to work. And compatibility, frankly, trumps attraction and chemistry and all that other stuff. Like I need to be. with someone who at the end of the day is going to leave me low. Totally. And like for me, for me challenging the texting thing, I was like, wait a minute, I only wanted him to text

me a ton. And that's why I challenged people with this. I was like, it's not because I wanted to be in constant communication with my partner. And if I'm not, it was like, no, I thought he was going to leave me. I thought it was going to be abandoned. I kept thinking, if he texts me, he likes me. And that was that very linear black and white, this equals this, without having any nuance of, because you read it on social media. I saw fucking video the other day. A dude was like, if a guy doesn't text you for a day, he doesn't care about you. You could be dying on the side of the road.

He doesn't give a shit about you. He's not even reaching out. And it's like, and the comments, hundreds of comments of like, you're right. And like, I did a video back at that.

I made a video the other day of unrealistic expectations anxious people have with avoidance. I don't know if you saw it. I didn't post it on social. It went viral on TikTok. The funny thing was, it got crazy engagement,

tons and tons of likes. The comments, though. That's why I made a video the next day be crying being like you trolls are pieces of shit. People attacking me going crazy. And I'm like, let me guess because I said you were unrealistic. Because I said, you are the one with a problem because I called you out on saying, no, it's not okay that you need someone to text you 30 times in an hour to tell you how much they like you. And I've seen the comments and I've seen the trolls that you get. And it's really, really hard for people. I'll speak for myself. It was really hard for

me to sit with the, I have to take. Now, there's a degree of when bad things, happened to you, you are being victimized. I've been sexually assaulted. I've had a lot of bad things happen. I am not victim blaming. But there's a point at which I need to say, what are my choices that I am I making? What am I tolerating? And we can't control other people. There's a big difference between victimized because something happened, a T, a big trauma that has happened to you, sexual abuse, things like that, versus you asking somebody to text you 30 times a day. Like, there's a very big difference between that. And it's just funny because, like, I find especially with the anxious folk, anytime I call them out, it's like, you get this crazy backlash. And then usually a few

months later, I'll get a DM of like, at first I hated you. And then when I finally stopped and listened, I realized, oh my God, she's right. The defenses, and I'm not excusing it because it's horrible, I've gotten it too, is this because me focusing on they need to do this and what's wrong with them? That's my brain saying if you don't obsess about them, you're going to die. So when someone comes at them with, no, actually, this is a you thing. Their brain is going, she's trying to kill you. Our brains are brilliant and beautiful and sometimes very stupid and literal. Like, to them, that feels like you are actually threatening their life.

Yeah. So, like, which again, is not a good reason to send inappropriate DMs to people. Or comments. Exactly. But it is, it's like a death threat. That's wild. I actually didn't realize. Like, that's what I mean.

It's so fascinating when you start to understand the brain. And what that does for me allows me to have more compassion for people. Yes. Because if I've always been saying this, if I can have compassion for other people, I can have more compassion for myself. And I think that's the biggest thing is like people like that that go and attack on the internet. It's like, like I had one girl and she attacked. And I even said it was like the amount of judgment.

I remember she commented on a video of me and Ryan on Instagram completely off because on TikTok, I said that I think a man doing 50, 50, like you splitting your expenses with somebody is not the end of the world. Like you can both take care of yourself. I don't need someone to pay for me. And she comments on that of like, You say you're an expert. You have a small one-bedroom apartment clearly rented. And I was like, and I like asterisk.

I was like, three-bedroom home, but thank you so much. And she's like, clearly rented with a guy that looks a little fruity. And it's like, okay, so now you're making all these. I said, so you judge me and my home. You judge my partner who has a beautiful dick and a beautiful body and we know how to work it. And trust me, he's not into men. Very into me. So all of these various.

So you just come out of the gate judging. All of this, all the spewing and all this. And I sat and I sat and I was like, okay, princess, you want somebody to come and take care of And all I said back to her was, it's funny that you can judge somebody so heavily without, I said, I'm hopeful that you can have a little bit of compassion for other people because if this is how you speak to yourself, no wonder you're in this position that you're in. It's really bad. And I love the compassion, but also intolerant. Like, I'm big on compassionate intolerance. Yeah. You know, like, I get that that person is having a moment, but that doesn't mean

that there's tolerance for it. Right. It's like, you can call it out and be like, hey, I get you're going through. It's the same thing when you're dating somebody. Yes. Somebody's going through stuff. It's like, Masha always says, explanation or excuse. I can say, hey, okay, listen, Brits going through this thing right now. This is causing a lot. So she's removing herself a little bit. Okay. That makes sense to me.

Versus Brits going through a lot, but she's cheating me like shit, it's okay. Right. Because she's having a hard time. And that's the, well, they had trauma and that and I did this. He had trauma and that's why he cheats on me. And I'm a good person. So I should be compassionate. It's like, no, you're a people, please.

Yeah. And I love addicts and a sex addict. Compassion is not a synonym for permission. I can have compassion without giving permission. I love that. So intolerance and compassion can very, very happily coexist together. But yeah, the anxious, like, I need to be texted all day. I have dated some very toxic, and I'll say the word as a clinician in its true sense, narcissistic people.

Guess what? They text all damn day. You're going to get good morning, beautiful, good night, sweet dreams. How'd you sleep? Thinking about you. So the frequency of texting needs some nuance. It's not a be all end all. Sometimes it means nothing.

It's easy to send texts. You can automate a text. Yes. Ryan did that. He was like, oh, by the way, he like sent it. And I was like, did you just schedule a text? He's like, yeah, I can schedule. And I was like, oh, my God, you could schedule a good morning text?

Yeah. And that's why people are like, he only texts me once a day. It's like, so this isn't about the text. Again, this is nothing to do. That's for like a whole other fucking topic. But I'd be curious to see what happened. We know the dopamine and all that stuff. The last question I did have for you is,

how somebody asked how can you identify like sex addict love addicts like how can you identify that early in dating is there anything oh boy you're gonna hate this answer like what does it matter what we call them what's the impact of their behavior on you how's your nervous system responding are you okay with what's happening and then i'm fine no you're not like let's get real like really truly honestly are you okay with what's showing up in this relationship do you feel at any moment like the walls are going to come caving in. Do you feel insecure? Do you feel sick to your stomach? Do you feel? I think everyone that has ever dated an unhealthy person could be like CIA level spy. Like I was a hacker, a spire. I knew how to do all of. If that is what's happening in your system is this

impulse to snoop that tells you a lot about the safety in this relationship. So I don't care if they're a narcissist or a sex addict or whatever. It's forget about what's going on with them. How are you? Right. How you do? When? That's, I think, when people ask, like, how can I see this in the early stages? And I'm like, I try to get away from doing that of like three signs of this because it's like, yeah, but here's a thing. This person could be, there's very obvious things like love bombing and manipulation and gaslighting. Like, those are very like, hey, if somebody says that it's like, that somebody, you know, somebody calls you with their soulmate after one date. It's like, exactly. Like that we already know,

that is, that's not healthy. That's like, okay, I don't care if you're a narcissist. I don't care if you're insecure. I don't care anything. That doesn't work for me. But I think, I think we need to stop trying to diagnose. If I get one more fucking like my dismissive avoidant did this. And I'm like, my narc did this or I. And it's like we're so used to self-identification because I think it gives us that sense of control. Which is not a thing. And here's the problem.

Real intimacy is defined like this. I define it like this. Consistency over time. Yes. So you need a full cycle of the earth around the sun to give you all of the data. that you need to then make an informed decision. So when you've been dating for three weeks, how do I know?

Intimacy is consistency over time. But you don't have the time logged. You need to log the miles before you can make the decision. Because over time, over the holidays, over the summer, during the busy season at work, during sports ball season, whatever their thing is, you need to see how they respond. You get hurt. Something happens.

You lose your job. Exactly. Family members, whatever. It's like, you know, three dates. They're amazing. It's like, you don't have enough time. I've seen your videos and you're so right. Like, if you have this huge story about a person with six hours of exposure to them,

you don't have the Miles log to make an informed decision. The amount of, oh my God, I did it. I could write movies about the projections I would have on some of these guys. Like, literally, I remember one, like, you go on. Like, I remember I dated one of the guys that started Joe in the Juice. Very sweet man. Not for me. Like, the minute, it's so funny.

Because before, what did I do? he's super successful and he's really, oh, he's tattooed and he's handsome and he's all of these things. I created this projection of him. The minute he showed up on the date, he was shorter than me. And I instantly was like not attracted to him in that way, but I was like, it's fine. You know, like, I can overlook that. We kept on the date, not a personality that I would go for it. There was nothing wrong with this guy.

There's nothing wrong with me. We were not at all. We had a great night. Don't get me wrong. We had fun. But he was not as bubbly. I created this version of him. Then I was devastated after when we didn't see each other again.

I kept trying to see him. And I think even he was kind of like, we didn't jive. Like, why are we pretending like we had this incredible night when like it was okay? Like we had fun. But like we went to a bar. We didn't really talk. There was music going on. There was a live show.

So like the reality was like that fun that we had was because of just being there. It wasn't because he and I were sitting alone on the beach talking about for six hours. But I created this entire. And then your brain drug dealer gave you a little jolt of this is who this is. And then your brain went more please. More please. And then when you don't hear from them, logically we know it wasn't a thing. but your brain drug dealer is going, uh-huh, you need all of this or you're going to die.

I like the way you put that is like, it's literally, and it feels like that because I think some people are like, I can't not. And you're like, you literally feel like you're going to die. Yeah. Now, here's the big thing. It's like, if you feel like, it's like when I used to do ice baths, you're like, no, I can't do this. It's like, just do it for a second. And then you'll see you're like, oh, I'm still breathing. Right. Which is hard. Because the only way to know you won't die by not doing something is to not do it and then see that you don't die. Exactly. But plan for a really, really unpleasant couple of days. You know, like, it's going to suck before it doesn't.

And we all, myself included, want to skip over the it sucks stage. But like one of the stages of change is this sucks. Discomfort. I hate this. Discomfort and growth. Like that's it. You will not. You don't grow muscles.

You don't grow your anything if it's not uncomfortable for you. Right. Because brain. Ah, man. This was. Okay. We're definitely, definitely going to do a part three on. more because we have so much more to talk about. DeBrain.

Rit, thank you for joining me. What new stuff? You have a book coming out. I do. Talk to me. What's upcoming for you? Yeah, this was so fun, by the way. The Getting Unstuck Workbook comes out in June.

I'm so excited about it. And it's really fun. And there's a ton of exercises. I can't wait. And if like this type of work isn't your jam, I put a ton of different types of things. And it's really fun. And I love it. And I'm working on a new book about parts and all the different voices in our heads.

And that'll be out next year. Sweet. All right. Well, I'll have everything in the show notes as well. I'll put your, the science of stuck is in the Amazon store if anybody wants to get it. It's one of my favorite books. I've gotten a lot of clients on it. I just like I said, I like the way that you take something so complex and make it digestible to be like, oh, I get what she's saying. So, Britt, thank you for joining. Thank you for sharing. And thank you for being on Do The Work Podcasts first live in studio recording. Thanks so much for having me.