The Sabrina Zohar Show - 73: Confidence In Dating And How To Show Up Authentically With Lisa Bilyeu

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

Sabrina and Lisa Bilyeu delve into the topic of navigating people-pleasing. Lisa's life experiences, which led to her business venture and her latest book, Radical Confidence, are a testament to the fact that finding the confidence to voice your needs and wants is a journey that can start at any point in life. It's not about waiting for confidence to come first, but about taking action despite the fear. Lisa's journey is a powerful reminder that the discovery of confidence often involves confronting failure and addressing the source of fear through action. Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Guys, welcome back to another week of Do the Work podcast. I am so, so excited to have you guys. And this week we have probably one of my favorite human beings out there. Lisa Bill Yu, she is on the podcast. She has a new book that just came out. And I am just so, so excited to have her. And for you guys to meet Lisa, if you don't know her already, so Lisa, welcome to do the work podcast.

Hi, I did. Since I met you, I've been so damn excited to be on your show now as well. That, yeah, I'm so excited. Let's go. Yay. Well, for anyone who doesn't know who you are, Can you just, I always like when the guests are able to talk about themselves for a little bit, can you just share with our audience like, what makes you so amazing and who the fuck are you so that they can now start to follow you as well? Oh, shit.

Well, so do you want like the resume version or do you want the emotional version? The real version, the you, who the, you can add in your amazing accolades, but like who the fuck are you? All right. I love this question. So I was brought up with Orthodox in a very traditional family and I thought all along the way that I'd end up. being a housewife with kids because I was told that since I was a child. My grandmother would come running to try and nurture me if I'd fallen on the floor and scraped to my knee. She'd be the first that would come and in her big, sick Greek accent. She'd go, oh, it's okay. You're going to be okay

by the time you'll get married. So it's like every message I ever got from any of my family members was as a woman, all you had to think about is just get to marriage. Like, make it to marriage and you're good. And so even in battling my dad over having a career, and going to university and studying filmmaking, I would battle him and we battled for like two weeks because I wanted to be a movie maker. And my dad was pressure on me as like, you should go into academics.

Now, what's funny is he just wanted me to get into academics until I got married. And then it was like, once you get the degree, then it's the husband and then you quit everything and you stay at home. Now, there's nothing wrong with that if you actually want that. But if you don't want it, it is important to recognize when you get trapped

by belief system that actually isn't yours. And that's what ended up happening to me, where I was brought up with so many messages through multiple means that by the time I ended up going to college, leaving and getting married, I then ended up slipping into the thing that I never wanted, which was to be the stay-at-home wife and support my husband. And that was because all along the way, I was getting so much validation from being a great wife. I was getting the pads in the back for being the great wife. And so even though I didn't want it, I then became, I found myself almost competing between what my heart wanted. then how do I make everyone else proud? But I don't want to bullshit you. I actually want to admit that when you make other people proud,

it makes you feel good. That's what people pleasing is such a problem because you do things to please people. And when you please them, they give you the pat on the back that makes you feel great. So people pleasing is a two-way street, right? It isn't you just doing it for them? You actually get something out of it.

So once you're able to call yourself on it and recognize your behavior, then hopefully you can make a change. sadly it took me over eight and a half years to make that change. And so I got stuck in what I call purgatory the mundane, where my life was just mundane enough. I never hit rock bottom. And as you probably know,

so many people that you know interact with successful people. It's like so many people make the change once they've hit rock bottom because they think, well, I've got nothing else to lose. But what about the millions and millions and millions and millions of people that don't hit rock bottom where their life is just mundane enough? And so that's where I found myself. I didn't make a change. I didn't speak up.

I didn't say what I needed. I didn't speak my needs or my wants or my dreams to my own husband because of all these traps I had basically fallen into my doing, no one else's, but I did fall into the traps. And then the identity piece really held me there. And then because I didn't hit rock bottom, I didn't make a change. So I was that living a life that didn't suit me, that didn't fill me up for over eight and a half years.

And it wasn't until I basically snapped and I told my husband, we need to stop chasing money. We actually need to live a life. That feels amazing. And that's when we made a pivot and my husband came home and said, hey, I've got a great idea. I want to build a protein bar company. And hey, we're going to put our house up for collateral. So that was really the start to that said protein bar company ended up being, you know, grown at 57,000 percent.

And we went from zero to a billion dollars in five years. I, first of all, I am so excited about this conversation because out the gate, it's like, that is, thank you for sharing that. That is such a beautiful story and so relatable because like I, first of all, congratulations, of course. Like you guys did something. You set out for a goal and you're like, hey, this may work and may not, but like we're going to go for it. But I think it's so, so powerful and it's something that I think, because I wanted to talk about like your new book, radical confidence. And it's like, so I want to talk about confidence and how we can grow it. And so many of our listeners are dating and, you know, kind of trying to navigate these waters.

And it's like, it doesn't matter. Just obviously, you've been with your husband for, what, over 20 years. And it's like, that doesn't mean that you didn't still also battle your own shit and have your own thoughts. And like, I can say personally as well, like, I grew up in a household where it was very similar. Like, you're, you are good. If you're a good girl, if you go to school and do this. And like, remember, you know, it was very conflicting. Like, don't ever rely on a man.

You can be self-sufficient. But no, you have to get married. Come on. you have to have kids and you have to be with a husband and it's like, wait a minute, who am I? Like, and I think we lose ourselves in that. And so I actually, that kind of leads me into really like one of the first questions, like, how were you able, like losing yourself again, not really knowing who you were,

what did you implement or try or things that you liked that you didn't like to find yourself again? Because I know confidence can feel so scary. Like I ask people questions and the number one thing was like, how do I even start? And I would love to hear like, you know, obviously you didn't have that rock bottom. But how did you start on this journey of finding your voice so that you could speak up even to your own husband to tell him what your needs and wants were in a different way? Yeah, dude, here's the thing with confidence is that we all think that we need it to get started. And so you also, I would say first of all, fill in the blank, right? Like, I want confidence so that when?

Or like, I want confidence so I can do what. It's the what that matters, not the confidence. So you need to identify what you're scared to do and what you feel like. Because let's face it, confidence is almost like people think it's the magic bullet. They think, once I have the confidence, then I can do all these amazing things. But my homie, it's the freaking opposite, is that you have to take the action in order to build the competence, in order to build the confidence. The confidence is the byproduct of taking action.

So if you don't take action, you can't get to the confidence. But you have to get started. So A, I need people to understand that confidence isn't the magic pill to get started. it will come eventually. Cool. Okay, if you know that, now you have to know what your North Star is. What is the thing that you want to build confidence in? And so for me, I said, I am going to make a change in my life. Like I will tell my husband that I'm unhappy once I have the confidence. I will go for that career that I'm really excited about when I have enough money. I'm going to go after and be confident and approach a guy in a bar when I have.

the confidence, right? What's the when? What's that when? Now ask yourself what would happen if that when never came. Yeah. How are you going to show up? If you want the finances to do the X, Y and Z, but you're saying, I want the confidence first. Well, what if that never came? Are you going to be stuck? What does your life look like in a year? What does it look like in five years? And what does it look like in 10 years? If you're okay with never taking action and you paint that picture, right? That's the life that you're happy, you're satisfied. But if you say in a year I want this and five years I want this and 10 years I want this, how are you actually going to get there? I could not agree more. I think we're so conditioned to think like when this happens, then I'll be happy. And so it's,

okay, well, then this needs to happen for me to be happy. And it's like, I at least learn personally, like in my journey, I think a lot of people look like, I could look at you now and be like, Lisa, how are you so fucking confident? And it's like, you're confident because you tried things. It didn't work. And then when you did, it did work. And you start to realize, I think really where it comes down to is like that trust within yourself of knowing that like, you know, I'm confident to know that no matter what happens, I will be okay because I can figure this out. So thus, if I'm going to enter into dating, like, yeah, might be a little nervous or when I'm starting a business, all of those different variables. It's normal to feel an emotion. But then I think my question to you is like, when people are

feeling that, you know, just that fear, that scarcity of like, I'm scared, I'm scared, I'm scared. How can they push through? Or is there anything like that worked for you? I know everybody kind of is their thing. But like when that fear starts to take over and you just feel like there's nothing I can do and I just can't do this, what, how did you push through those really tough times and like those darker moments of, fuck, can I actually do this? Yeah, the fear makes you really believe something about yourself that I think isn't true. And so I give voice to the fear, so it's got nowhere to hide. So let's say, for instance, right, the kind of story where I'd left off was my husband comes home and he's like, we're going to start a new protein bar company.

Oh, and by the way, we're going to put the house up for collateral. It's like, this house was my, I thought, oh my God, this is what I'm going to bring up my children and you want to gamble it away. Like, that's how I kind of thought about it. And so thinking through, okay, well, how do we handle this situation where we got this conflict? I'm really fearful that I'm going to lose my house. And so my instinct was to say, no, we can't do that. Now, instead of just jump into the response, right, which is a no, it's there to protect you. I get it. But instead of jumping to that, start to actually say what you're worried about. And so that's what I started to do with Tom? I was like, okay, well, and he's like, well, what are you actually worried about? I was like,

well, we're going to be homeless and we're not going to have any food and we're going to starve to death. And he's like, okay, well, is that actually true? And so I actually started to process that all the fear I had was actually the fear that my Greek father had growing up in a tiny mountain in Cyprus where he didn't actually have food. And he actually did have to worry about a roof over it. Now that gets passed down through generations as well. So as a kid, as I'm sitting there eating, right? I'm first world country. I'm brought up in London and I'm sitting there with abundance of food and my dad's telling me I have to eat every single thing off my plate because there are people starving in the world. So you can understand where the fear came from that,

oh my God, I'm going to starve to death. But it isn't true. So once I started to give voice to the fear of I'm going to lose my house, I'm going to be homeless, and I'm going to starve to death. I was like, okay, I actually ask yourself, Lee, that is this fear true or not from what you know about yourself in the world? So I just took one at a time. I was like, okay, am I actually going to be homeless? Now, the truth is that I had friends and family that could help me. Now, I would have to sleep on their couch maybe, which would suck, but the fear that I had was fake. It wasn't real. So once I processed that, I said, okay, you can sleep on someone's couch. Is that sleeping on someone's couch? Is that a good situation that you can be comfortable living with, knowing that you've gone

for your dream and your husband's also gone for his dream? The answer was yes. So I then immediately knocked down that fear and gave it a voice and then gave it a rebuttal. I was almost like a lawyer in the courtroom, right? Like I was like fighting myself. And so then the other thing of the starving to death. Okay, are you actually going to starve to death leader? Again, once I processed it, the answer was no. So let's even take it into dating, right? It was like, oh my God, I'm not confident. What if they reject me? What if they reject you? Actually go through that process of being rejected. What does it look like? Does that cripple you for life? No. It's a story you're telling yourself. So once you give yourself the voice and you pay the fear attention, you can then really

actually figure out, is it true? Is it false? Is it a belief system that you have? And then you can proceed in accordance. So once I started to actually give voice to the fear, I then really actually the truth was I could get another house, but I couldn't get another husband. I couldn't get another tom. And so once I processed the fear and realized that, it was such an easy decision for me to make because so what if I lost my house? That actually didn't mean anything. But telling my husband that I don't believe in him, mean something to him. Telling my husband that I'm not willing to take a chance on someone who I know he's ambitious. I married an ambitious man. I'm attracted to. I'm attracted to to ambition. I find drive very sexy. So part of what I was attracted to and why I married him is now

the thing that I'm going to hold against him. Like, what the fuck? No, that doesn't sit well. So I just said, you know who he was. You know he married him. Just because you got a ring on the finger doesn't mean he's going to change. You love that he's ambitious. What do you tell you think ambition means? Ambition means going for things when you've got no proof or evidence that it can be done. And so I just, once I worked through the fear, once I processed it, once I realized the consequences of me saying no was to show my husband that I didn't believe in him, once I knew that who cares about a house, what I actually care about is supporting my husband, it became an easy decision to make. So you can see where I take something that I'm utterly fearful of was going to shut my husband down that could have caused a problem in our relationship for the rest of our lives because he could have built contempt over me saying no and holding him back. I then processed my sear, I worked through it, I vocalized it, then we worked together on the path. So then because of that, he was able to go, I hear you, babe, let's do this together.

We were honest with each other. What do we do if we lose the house? How does he see the house versus I see the house? I see it as a nest. He sees it as a nest egg. So understanding even the differences of how we saw it actually brought us closer together. So I know that was a really long answer, but I just. I really think that the fear that is holding your back is there to protect you.

I get it. But don't let it take over your decision making, which will eventually hold you back from the dreams that you want. And what you're going to do is blink 10 years later and go, I don't know why I don't have this. I don't understand this. I can't believe this. It's because of decisions that you made blindly,

not realizing why you were making them. That was so beautifully said. As you were going, I'm like, my head is just bobbing left and right, because it's so fucking true. Like in any journey, whether it's dating, professional, personal, like, I think there's that common misconception of like, no, no, my life is good in everywhere else besides here. Like, it's just in dating that I lack the confidence. And it's like, no, that's just what you think.

That's just the perception that you have, but it's not actually accurate. Like, that plays over into many parts of your life. And what you pretty much described was like my entire process as well of challenging that fear. There's more to life than finding the perfect car. But finding the perfect car can help you get the most out of life. Like the SUV that handles everything from drop off to off road, and the car that hulls groceries and hockey teams, or the van that's gone from just practical to practically family.

Whatever you want, wherever you're going, start your search at ototrater.ca, Canada's car marketplace. Because anytime I get scared, it's like when I started my business, Like all of my fears of like, oh, God, it's like, okay, you're going to put yourself out there. And it's like, then you start to spiral. Like, but what if? What if? What if?

What if? And it's like, okay, I love that. I used to do that same practice of, okay, what am I scared of? Like, what is the main fear here that's that I feel like is keeping me back? So like, if we're going to be rejected, like, oh, I'm going to be rejected. So what's so scary about that? Like, what is, can we lift the veil? Because I always equate it to like when you're a kid and you see the shadow in your closet and

you're so scared. And then you find out it's like this tiny little thing. And it's like, oh. Oh, so that wasn't actually what I thought it was. And by even just facing that fear. And it's like, yeah, maybe that fear will lead you into, I'm scared. Like when I started my company, when I had started, I have a clothing company called software. And so when I started software, my biggest fear was like, not that, you know, I kept saying, oh, well, what if the company closes?

And I remember my mom going, okay, so what if the company closes? Like, and I'm saying, but I'm going to be on my own. And I remember the same thing. My partner looked at me and he's like, when have you ever been homeless? He was like, one of you ever not had food? He was like, God, the universe, whatever you believe in that's bigger than you, if you believe in that, we'll always have your back. Like you said, you have friends, you got family, you know, you go on that first date. Okay, so they didn't like you.

So if we look at it saying, well, but my self-worth, but then who I am, it's like, well, that's what we need to explore. That's a period of opportunity to say, okay, well, that's a difference here. If you're scared, like for me, I was scared of myself worth and all those things. When I really got down to it, what was my biggest fear in all of that that I wasn't confident in? I was scared. It's almost 40, and I was like, I'm going to disappoint my father. I'm going to be a failure to him. And that, to me, was my biggest fear. Now, I looked at it as kind of like what you did. It's like, okay, I could sit back idle and say, but what makes me who I am is that I am driven, that I do go after what I want, that I say,

you know, I moved to New York when I was 19 and I had like $100 in my bank account and you're just like, you know what, I'll figure it out. That naivete is a beautiful thing to it. And I think sometimes as far as at least with dating is concerned, we get so in our heads because we're so terrified of this big old monster that when we actually just strip it away, it's really just like core beliefs that we need to work through that we're just actually scared of facing. Yeah, so true. And the rejection piece is such a big part of it. And so even with that, it's like, okay, I'm afraid to get, I'm scared to get rejected. Okay, that's real. Like, you shouldn't dismiss that.

That isn't silly. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. but now ask yourself, okay, why do you give the power away to someone you only known for one date, right? And so I then would process that to be like, okay, I actually don't want to give my power, right? So what do I need to do to change it? And this goes, how do you build your own validation within yourself so that no one else can actually penetrate how you feel about yourself? And so everyone wants to be validated. Everyone wants to go on a first day and that person just ball head over heels for you. So it isn't a, you know, oh my God, I can't believe it. No, no, own up to that would feel amazing, but no way is it healthy for me to allow someone that I don't know or really anybody, even someone you know very well, to dictate how you feel about yourself, about your self-worth, about how you and where you get your validation. And so what I would do is I would start to pivot. I would start to say, where can I build my self-worth and my validation that has nothing to do

with anybody else except for me. That way, when you go on a day or you put yourself out there and you get rejected and it stings, you can then go back to the tools that you've already developed. So for me, for instance, working out and the gym is a powerful place for me to show up and say, Lisa, this is you against you. No one else dictates whether you show up or not. You either pick up this five pound weight or you don't. You either get into the gym regularly eat the right things to get to be able to pick up 15 pounds to then to be able to pick up 20 pounds or not. It is up to you. And so you better believe every day that I show up in the gym because I want to.

I've just validated myself that I'm the person that says I'm going to do something and I do it. I'm the person that said that I want to do 50 pushups and I started with two and now I can do 40. That's been two years of me showing up consistently going from two pushups to 40. But I don't stop because I motivate myself to keep going. So you can imagine now when I get proud of myself that I've done something like that, when I meet someone that whether it's a date, whether it's a boss, whether it's a friend,

that they end up invalidating you, I don't take it to heart because when I feel the sting, of course I still feel the sting, I still feel the hurt, I'm not invincible, I still have the feelings, I just go then back to is this feeling true? Am I actually useless? Am I, you know, fill in the blank, whatever story you, am I worthless, whatever story you want to tell yourself? But then I go back to asking myself the question and then I have evidence that proves otherwise. So if I say, Lisa, see, I knew you weren't worth anything, then I go back to, is that actually true?

No, because you said you were going to do something yesterday and you showed up for yourself. You're damn proud of that. So I just keep like rinse and repeating that idea of where can I build validation in any error of my life, whether it was, you know, I get emotionally triggered and my emotional trigger gets from, I go from zero to 60 in three seconds. And now my emotional trigger is from zero to 60 in, let's say, a week. Oh, wow, I can be proud of myself. I don't beat myself up that I still get emotionally triggered. I just say, I went from being the person that was emotionally triggered in two seconds to now going a week that I am able to sustain not being triggered. So I do that in every

aspect of my life so that I can make sure my self-worth is built on myself and no one else. That is, thank you for saying that. Thank you for, because like, this is why I'm so happy that you and I could have this conversation because I knew that it was going to be real and authentic because it's like we see so much of like, we see so much of the finished product, right? Of like, oh, well, Lisa has a husband and she's got this successful company. Okay, well, she always had that, right? And it's like, no.

I love using the gym as an equate, as an example, same thing of like just your healing journey. I could sit here and intellectualize all day what it means to be confident. Okay, I talk like this and my intonation is. like this. It's the same as like when I was studying about like going to the gym, I had never stepped into the gym by myself. Do you think I was going to be able to go in deadlift? Like I could read about this all day. I could, okay, flat back and engage the hips and doing all this until my ass gets in there and I took my back out and I was like, my scoliosis flared up. And all that meant to me was it wasn't, you know, could the pendulum a swung of like, oh, one bad day, I'm a

fucking failure and I knew it. And it's like that, all that does is reaffirm your core belief. That's it. And I love that you've been brought up challenging that. Okay, what facts do I have to back this up? What facts do I have to back up that because this didn't work out, now I'm a useless piece of shit? Well, that doesn't, I have nothing. If I'm in the court of law and I'm about to give you a million dollars, you need to prove

that, though, you got nothing, right? What are some contrary beliefs? Well, I'm new at this. And I'm the same. Like, I love when it comes to building confidence, micro-yeses. You want to get to, like, your goal, 50 push-ups. I'm still a goal of mine. And it's like, that's the goal, right? And so you know, okay, well, I'm not going to wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden I can do 50 pushups. But what I can do is every day I can show up for myself. So maybe that one day is even just knowing how to put my hands. And that's it. And then maybe the next day is going on my knees and putting my hands. Okay. And then the next day is trying half of one. It's about that slow progress so that every day, like you said, you show up and you reaffirm to yourself. But see, I show up for myself. Because I find, you know, at least for me, I can speak.

personally like I was never validated as a child like it was never a like you know hey I can totally understand how you feel you know your father didn't just call you a stupid piece of shit because you are he called you that because of his own issues no instead I had that volatility and then no parents there no one there to say you have every right to feel that instead it was when you got upset then you got hit so not only was it you're not allowed to feel this then you get it punished for feeling it and then all of a sudden you're you know then I'm an adult saying anybody just tell me am I allowed to this? Can anybody just tell me? And it's interesting because something that I found, which I don't know, obviously you never, like, had a, didn't have the dating experiences, but maybe even in business,

you felt this. Like, I remember when I first used to start dating, I had no fucking confidence. Like, you have the false confidence of like, oh, everyone tells me I look pretty because I was the ugly duckling in middle school and high school, graduated high school, lost a ton of weight, like really figured out it to take care of myself, came into myself, figured out my style. And then all of a sudden And it was, well, that imposter syndrome, I'm like, no, no, you guys see, like, I don't see what you're seeing. And I remember, like, for about 10 plus years in my dating experience, always, you know, you have your screenshots and you're sending it to every one of your friends. And I'm asking everybody like, okay, what does this mean? And da-da-da.

And when I realized what had shifted in me was when my now, Ryan, my partner now, when we started dating, I remember like a month in, I realized I was like, oh, my God, I haven't sent a screenshot of his messages. I haven't asked anybody for like, hey, what do you? think. I was like, instead, I built the confidence in myself to say, no, I know what's right and wrong here. Like, I know when someone says something. And like, let me just preface, for anybody that needs to contact a friend, I'm not saying you have to be on this hill and die alone. But it was understanding that was a huge growth moment for me of saying, wait, I don't need to ask everyone permission to tell me who I am and to tell me that, hey, what that person said was rude and disrespectful, because I trust myself enough to know what you just said was rude and disrespectful.

Oh, girl, that's so strong. We do that so much. We'll turn to other people to validate how we feel or how we perceive something. Instead of saying, hang on a minute, this came across disrespectful. I, you know, and no, look, actually, as I'm saying this, that's super freaking powerful and I love it. And at the same time, I'm going to play devil's advocate. And I also do, like, the other side. So I do exactly what you just said.

I freaking love it. But also, I'm very aware that I can get emotional. I'm very aware that I have a cycle and that I can be sensitive. So on moments where I'm worried that I'm sensitive, I go to a trusted party and get their opinion. But I don't act or make a decision based on someone else's opinion. It's almost just like, I just need to test the waters because I don't want to be responsive or respond in a way that is overdramatic that the next day, I feel badly that I've acted like that because I was like, oh my God, I can't believe that I said that.

I would, you know, like you just get emotionally triggered or you're sensitive or something's happening. You haven't slept. You haven't eaten. Like all these things actually make a difference to how you should. show up, how you feel about yourself, because if you don't sleep, if you're eating crap, if you're always searching to your point of your friends to validate or to give you feedback, you can imagine that in a situation where you, that you walk into, of course, you're not

going to have the confidence. Your hormones are all over the place. You don't trust yourself and you're waiting for someone else to tell you how to feel. So to your point of how do you start to learn those things? How do you start to actually adapt and figure things out yourself? Like I kind of say, like trust your gut, but you have to train your gut. Like, It has to be a trade, like everything that we've been talking about is almost like, don't just start it. You have to trust that it's a training process. And sorry, I just wanted to say that I freaking love that. But also the other side of it is that trust yourself, but then sometimes be aware enough when you can't actually trust yourself.

100%. 100%. And that's why it's like, nothing I like to say is black and white. Because it's like there is that nuance. There is that gray area. And that's why it's like, it's totally okay on your journey. But like you said, you said the one thing that we need to. pinpoint, a trusted source. Somebody that is, you know, somebody that you're like, I know that you're not

projecting onto me. Like for years, I went to my mom and like, I love that woman to the moon and back, but like she projected a lot of her stuff onto me, a lot of her fears and insecurities. And it wasn't until I had a therapist that I trusted because I was like, wait a minute, you're challenging me in ways that like I haven't thought about this. And then you start to just see things a little differently and having somebody because there's so much power in holding space for somebody and validating. And even sometimes, like, I'll even talk of like a one-on-one with the client and like even just saying, you have every right to feel that. They'll break down crying and they're like, wait, I am. And it's like, yeah, it's okay for someone to say that.

The issue comes when it's always, you know, I can't make a move because I need you to tell me it's okay. I can't. Then it's like, well, then we're just leading you up to a codependent relationship and nobody wants that. But one thing that I think this also leads us into, which is a chapter in your book about like, no one's coming to fucking save you. And I think when we're talking about building confidence, we need to realize and come back to Earth of like Disney lied to us. There is no, like, I was, I don't know about you. I was listening to the other day to like Backstreet Boys because I, that's how I reconnected

with my little me. I didn't always write to send you that. Oh, I love it so much. And like, Instinct and Backstreet Boys, like I put that channel on. And as I was listening to it, I was like, oh, my God. No wonder we're all, you know, that a generation. I was like, first we grew up with like Disney telling us that a prince is coming and that a night coming so it's like, oh, so I just have to be helpless. I don't want to do that. Then we watch

all these rom-coms of like, how to lose a guy in 10 days. You could be your worst version, but someone's going to love you. Okay, so then that means, oh, I don't need to worry. It's like so many conflicting messages. Then I'm listening to these songs from back in the day of like, I'll do anything for love and I'll walk through fire until you're like, wait a minute. So at the end of the day, I'm sitting here saying, well, who's going to come get me? Because I thought for years someone was going to come save me until we have to realize, like, you have to save yourself. And I wanted to ask, like, did you ever have that? Because, like, you know, you made your husband young.

Did you ever hold on to those fantasies and, like, did that ever crash? Or were you somebody that, like, didn't really, like, have those? Oh, God. For over a decade, I thought he was still going to save me, even once we got married. So, a thousand percent, I was definitely brought up on that idea that the prince comes and kisses the girl. And that's when she comes alive. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's Verdey,

Roja or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habaniero, more like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. You know, and here's the weird thing is it felt beautiful. It wasn't like I was like, I was like, I can't freaking believe that I have to have it. at the time growing up with the messages, they made it sound wonderful.

It was like, you just lie there and someone comes to rescue you and your whole life is perfect. Like, it actually sounds like a dream come true. But it isn't reality. And so if you live in a place subconsciously, because it's not like you're sitting and going, I am the sleeping beauty that is waiting for in a castle, right? It is very abstract. It's the underlying notion that you think of in the small little decisions that you make every single day. And so while I didn't actually articulate that, I realized that I was doing that with

my husband, so we get married. And I still thought his job was to save me. His job was to make me happy. And so because I thought of it is his job, I turned to him to make me happy. And if he was in a bad mood, then it put me in a bad mood. And so you can see how this actually ends up being very negative and becomes a very almost like toxic dynamic. Now, luckily we didn't get to that point, but only because I think that we both started to realize how much our mental state rubbed off on the other person. And so it came to a point where for me, I just had so many health issues. So we built Quest. It was growing amazingly. We were doing very well. I was turning to him still of just being basically my hero. And there was one day my health was so, so bad that I was always trying to show up, didn't tell anyone.

Like the person you see today was not who the Lisa used to be. I was the one that people can't see that you're weakly, so you can't tell anyone that you've got health issues. You can't look weak. You can't look and, you know, like all these stories I was telling myself because of the idea that I thought women have to be silent, always show up for people and just keep crushing it. So the last thing I wanted was for anyone to know that I was weak

or having any massive health issues. So I have this photo shoot one day and I'm not telling anybody. I'm telling you I couldn't stand up for longer than five minutes at a time. My gut was that bad. I could only eat five ingredients for almost a year. And salt is an ingredient. My hair was falling out and my nails were brittle and I'm like, I was like 20 pounds lighter than I am now. Just to give a context of how sick I was. I still wasn't telling people. I was embarrassed and ashamed because we owned Quest and it was like the biggest nutrition company in the world. And so I just thought, well, I can't have health issues. So I'm just setting the stage. So I'm really sick. I've got a photo shoe and I don't tell anyone. I show up. I'm on set. I'm makeup. Everything. and my gut starts going crazy. I mean, I'm talking crippling agony. So I don't want to say anything to anybody

because, of course, I don't want to look weak. So I'm like, hey, guys, just bear with me. I just had to go do something. Like, I'll be back in a bit. And so I just disappear. I run upstairs and I fall to the floor. On my knees clutching my gut with agony. And in that moment, I turned to my husband,

like I always did. I need him to come and help me. Now, we have a wall in the bill you household because we're very busy, so we have rules. And so the rule is if we need each other, we can call one and we're allowed to ignore each other. We can call a second time, and we're actually about to ignore each other.

But if I've ignored you or you've ignored me for two times and you call a stare time, it actually means it's an emergency. So if that means that Tom's in the middle of interviewing the president of the United States or whoever, and I call three times, he's got to say, I'm so sorry, I've got to go and my wife's calling. Those are just facts.

Those are the rules that we have. So I'm on the floor. I'm in agony. I pick up my phone. Ring number one, he ignores it. Ring number two, he doesn't answer. So I'm like, all right, cool. This is our rule number three.

I know he's got me. Rule number three, I call him the third time. He still doesn't answer. And so now here I am on the floor, flutching my guts in agony and I don't have my savior. And so in that moment, I was telling myself, Lisa, what are he going to do? Like, I need my husband.

I need my husband. And I kept repeating, I need my husband in my head. And in that moment, girl, I realized you don't need him. You want him, but you don't need him. You're the hero of your own life to get the fuck up. And that moment that I told myself that with other compassion, but absolute command, I bloody got back up and I took deep breath and I went downstairs and I finished the photo shoot. And that moment taught me.

that I have the ability to show up for myself. Now, here's the nuance again to that story. I still really want my husband, and I'm still okay with saying that to him. And there's a difference between the need and the ones, and even telling you that story now, I don't know where my husband is, he might actually be right offset hearing it.

Even that story now breaks his heart because he wants to come and help me. He wants to come and rescue me. And we talk through it. And the difference is, I was like, babe, I want you to be by my side. I just don't want to be in a position where I feel like I need you by my side because you're going to go through your issues.

You're going to have your problem. You're going to have your bad days. And then I'm going to be here for when you wants me. But if we see each other as our saviors, now it becomes a very difficult dynamic. And so since then, that really, that lesson of my health, I have echoed into every area of my life. And I just tell myself, repeat myself over and over. again when I point my finger and say I've got a goal and I'm not there yet I just say well Lisa this is all

on you no one's coming to save you no one's coming to like get you there apart from you either you put in the work or you don't do the work right you either do the work or you don't do the work it is all up to you and to be honest I've got to say that is the most empowering thing I can ever tell anybody because now it is up to you you don't have to use excuses or way for other people to show up You literally have the ability and capability to say, I either show up today or I don't. I either save myself today or I don't. And your partner can be there to facilitate your empowerment, can help boost it, which is for sure I turn to my husband to help boost that.

But I don't rely on it. They're not there as a catalyst. They're here to help it. Now, in the wrong relationship, they can be the opposite. You can do all that work and they can still be the anchor around your, the ankle around your ankle that pulls you down deep, deep into the ocean. That's what a partner can do for you. They can lift you up or they can pull you down, but it's your job to do the work.

Oh, I love that story. It hits so close to home because I had a similar experience, but I unfortunately, I never had a Tom. I didn't have a partner that was loving and caring, but it was something similar where like I was in clutching pain and I was crying and I was telling my partner, I was like, please, please take me to the hospital. and it's like etched in my mind. He stepped over me and turned around and said,

get the fuck over it. You're not the only one who's felt pain. I have a meeting. And I remember calling my sister crying and I was like, Jamie, please, please, please. And she was like, I'm getting you an Uber right now. Like you're getting to the hospital. Come to ECU. And then his mom called me after,

how dare you interrupt his meeting? And that was that moment in that literally where I was like, oh my God, I'm alone here. Like this person, exactly to your point, he could have lifted me up, but that motherfucker brought me. as far down as he physically could. And in that moment, and I've had a few of those.

And like, I want to also normalize these moments that'll happen. You may have a few. Like I, my brother-in-law said that to me when I was 18. He was like, you just want someone to save you. He was like, you and your sister. You just want someone to come and get you from all the shit you dealt with. And it wasn't until I did my inner child work where I remember like seeing my little me.

And when I turned her, I said, why are you so sad? Where are you stuck? And she looked at me and she said, you fucking abandoned me. And it literally was like a wave over me. I was like, oh my God, I have to save myself. And I remember just in my vision, I looked down and I had a key. And it was like such a powerful moment because I was like, oh, my God, I have to get you out of here. And I worked through that and I would go.

And that was my journey. You know, everyone's going to have their own experiences. But like I would go back and I would say, I'm here to save you. It's time to go. And then, you know, having that like a year ago, losing my dog and being like, oh, my God, who am I? Just having like, and I think that's kind of the beautiful aspects of life as well is like, we think we have everything and then you lose it or then you don't have it like you didn't have

Tom in that moment and you're like oh my god it's just me and in that moment like when the building burned down and you're just standing in those ashes it's like that's when the phoenix rises in my opinion that's when you find yourself and say i can't like i relied on my dog for fucking years clem was my rock i was fine if clem was fine right you know oh nope everything's okay as long as I have my one constant. And like, to some people, it's, oh, come on, and get over it's a dog. To me, that was my life. That was my security blanket.

After everything I had gone through in my childhood and every apartment I left New York and every, you know, you just, that's the only thing I had with me every single time. And when he died, I literally lost myself. Like I, you could have taken everything besides my mother and I would have been okay besides that. And in that moment was when I had to realize, like, and I remember my mom said it, she was like, you put way too much pressure on that poor dog to save you. that wasn't his job. And I was like, oh my God, it's true. Like I put so much pressure on this

external factor to come and get me without ever realizing like we have all the tools that we need to save ourselves. But the hardest part is finding like those parts of you that need you because it's hard to look back on those moments and say, oh my God, there's a little girl in there that's scared and fearful and no one's coming to get her. Yeah, God. And my heart breaks for you, that that's what happened that he just steps over you. But, you know, like, I think it's Tony Robbins that said, you know, how do you make the best out of the worst situation? And I really do remind myself of those sorts of things where it's like, okay, I've just seen your colours. Because it is easy.

It is so easy to have an amazing relationship when you're both in good moods, when everything is going well. But how does someone handle something when shit hits the fan? And you are to your knees. Does the person help you up? Do they sit on the floor with you or do they kick you? right? And so me and my husband decided, we just said, we're the people that pull each other up. Like, I don't actually want him coming and sitting next to me. I want him to pull me up. And the same thing is like, do you reach out the hand? And so, but what if the hand isn't there? How do you then

still get up? So I think it can be two things, right? It can be number one is seeing how they handle it. So my husband, the fact that even today, it breaks his heart when I tell that story, means that he really wants to be there for me, right? And so that's a little beautiful thing to But then also the other side is that I'm proud of myself that I was able to maneuver that and I had the strength within myself. And I say this to my stuff. I know that you thought it's about you and that you weren't there for me. But for me, this is about me and the beauty that I found the strength in myself to be able to get back up. And that doesn't mean that I'm not going to turn to you because that's where it's like as a powerful,

strong, confident woman. I don't want to pretend that I don't turn to my husband. I absolutely do. And I think it's important that you do turn to your partner when you need them. And then the answer is how do they show up when you do? Do they kick you or do they give you the hand? But those are opportunities. Those are moments that allow you to really see the truth of how your partner is going to show up for you. I will scream this from the rooftops. Anybody who's dating right now, you want to be confident within yourself, then it's a being, it's knowing that like, it's okay if somebody walks out. It's okay if you guys have an argument and that person's disrespectful and you hold a boundary and say, well, I'm not going to put up with that.

Because, like, there's a very big difference between, like, what I'm willing to allow and accept is contingent upon how I feel about myself. How do I see me? Because, like, I had my partner that literally walked over me and was just so volatile to me. He was my father. It was the same because I was so low within myself. I didn't genuinely believe that somebody could show up for me. Once I showed up for myself And once like

When you got yourself back up And you went back on that shoot It's like then the next time that happens You have one new confirmation in your brain of But I've done this No, but I've done that and I'm okay Oh, okay, so I don't always need Tom And it just neuroplasticity

That's the way our fucking brain works But our brain is not designed to do that on its own Your brain's not going to do that and say Lisa you're an adult You can do this get up girl No your brain's like Sorry girl you're going to die Like that's it I got to keep you safe

This bitch's dead You don't have your husband. And it's like its job is to see you saying she's hurting, we need to keep her safe. Versus now, like, even with my partner, like a lot of people ask like, how did you get a partner like this? And I want to know how? I was confident that I knew what it was right for me. And I was confident to walk away from people that I knew weren't. Because the guy I dated before my partner, super avoidant.

Like I was just talking to my friend about it. And she was like, she met him. And she was like, he was a great frontier. Great at pretending like the relationship was going somewhere. and, you know, in that moment, being able to say just enough to when, like, in hindsight, you're like, wait, but did you actually, like, valid, you know what? It's fine. In the moment, you're just like, cool, I'll go with this.

And we ended it because he took no accountability and was blaming me for, like, something that was very much not my fault. And I remember just looking at him and it's like, it was like a month and a half. And I said, I'm not doing this. I was like, I'm the fuck out of here. And he was like, whoa, I didn't mean that we should break up. And I was like, no, you may not have meant that. I was like, but I know that I deserve better than this bullshit.

And I met my partner five days later. And I'm not saying that to everybody's trajectory, but I just mean that like I ate shit for five years being single between that last partner and my now partner because I knew one I had to find myself and two I had to build the confidence and I had to figure out who I was. But that also goes with like then there's that imposter syndrome of like you might not always know like you know when you start your career and stuff I didn't expect that this was going to happen. But what I did know was being in touch with myself and knowing that I validate my own experience like we're bringing this so full circle of the important. aspects of everything that's why people need to read the book, because you have these chaptered out in such a beautiful way of understanding that like validating your experiences, trying new things, facing those fears, bringing them to the surface, knowing what it is that you want and deserve will then be the reason you're confident enough to walk away from the people that don't give that to you. Because I believed that I was worth it and I believed that it existed. I just knew it wasn't going to happen overnight. But I showed up as that and confidently

knowing that this is who I wanted to be and this is what I wanted to attract, I wasn't scared of being too much or somebody telling me that they're going to walk away. Good, go find less than. Then I'm not for you. Because if you don't stand for something, you fucking fall for everything.

Dude, I love that so much. That was so strong. And when you think about there being, what, 7.5 billion people in the world or anything, and you have one person that rejects you. It's like, no, you're not going to be if you want a cup of tea. You don't like everybody. So why do you think, like, literally,

I got rejected the other day. It was something really. really silly and stupid and it was, it was, God, do I want to tell this story? Anyway, it doesn't matter. It was something, it was something tiny and stupid. And I was like, oh my God, I feel rejected. And I was like, Lisa, you don't even know them. They were coming to work for you and you feel rejected. And I was like, oh yeah. Like I had to remind myself that not everyone's going to love you. You're not going to love everybody. And so when you meet someone that does reject you, like, yeah, it's about you. But that is about you.

It's okay, right? Because you know, it's like it's not you. Yes, it is you. It's like if you were slightly different, you have a different personality. If you look different, different height, like whatever, fill in the blank, maybe they'd like you, but you're not. So now what are you going to do about it? Don't freaking mold yourself to be liked to get that validation. That's the piece, right? And so for me, it was about building that confidence and validation to your point before you even get into the relationship so that you can put those barriers up. You know your value. you, you know your worth. And so when someone comes to challenge it, you're able to say, nope, sorry, that doesn't jive with me. The problem is if you get into a relationship before you've

done that work, before you actually have the confidence, before you believe in yourself, and if you're going to try and get to the guy, quote unquote, then now you're adapting yourself to them and you morph. And so what happens as they change, their mood changes, what they're looking for. Now you're morphing and morphing and morphing and morphing, and before you know it, you don't even recognize yourself. But if you do the groundwork, you can put up, look, everything's going to be, not everything, but something's going to be negotiable, right? When I met my husband, I'd gotten out of a very toxic relationship of four years. And so I went from like the age of 15, very insecure. You said the story earlier. I was the same.

I was like the, I was bullied for my looks. I had the head brace that goes all the way around the head. Yep. Same. I had the elastics in the mouth. Oh my God. It was like the tradition, the unibrow. If you watch my big fat week wedding, that little girl, that was me. Literally, that was me. And so I didn't have the confidence growing up because of all these things. And then I can't actually lost my train of thought. Where was I going with that story? Oh, and then you've, so I then found somebody, sorry, yes.

I found somebody early on that then finally validated me. It was my first boyfriend. So for four years, I felt validation from him because I wasn't getting it anywhere else. So you can imagine when he cheats on me, when he verbally abuses me, I just keep going back. Of course. That's all you know. So I, and you know, thank you for saying that. That's why I actually love, I hate to match their energy or do that. I'm like, but why do I need to change who I am so that other people are more comfortable? Like if someone's acting in a way that doesn't align with me, confidence would say, okay, well, then this doesn't align with me. Like, if I'm secure in who I am

and I know, okay, well, you told me that we were going to have plans and then I never heard from you, but then you text me. It's like, that doesn't work for me. I'm not going to match their energy and say, oh, well, then I'm just not going to text and I'm going to play this game and I'm going to spend, I'm going to take four hours to respond because you took four hours. It's like, no, instead I could just get really turned off and say, well, it just doesn't work for me. I don't need to create a narrative. It doesn't have to be a story.

It could just be, no, thank you. That doesn't work. I know what I like and I know what I need. And when you don't have the confidence, just like, oh, what do you need? What do you like? And so you keep adapting to them versus coming back to yourself. And that's what I think like just toxic relationships can really do to you, is it just kind of wears you over time.

and it does feel like you've just blinked and you don't recognize yourself. And so if you manage to get out of one, you need that space to really figure out who you are, what you love, what you don't like, what your values are, what your future looks like, what drives you, what encourages you, what gets you excited, what puts you down, what makes you feel badly. So that, right now, I did that work. And then so by the time I met my husband, I was very clear on my non-negotiables. And so when I first met him, I was like, all right, here are my non-negotiables. You never get to cheered on me, you never get to hit me.

And so, again, I'm just being honest and I want to set you up for success. It wasn't like a threat. It wasn't like, if you do this, I'm leaving you. It's like, look, to set our relationship up for success, let me tell you the things that I'm not okay with. And the reason why is because I really want us to be very clear and communicate what is a deal breaker or not. And if you don't know my deal breakers, then you may think accidentally down the road

that maybe she'll forgive me. and I'm just going to be honest with you. If you cheat on me, I will never forgive you. I find out at 1205, my bags are packed at 1206 and I'm out of the door at 1207. I'm not even going to give you space to explain. And I just want to be honest with you. So now that we're clear, let's move on. But I was always, like, it was important for me to be honest because, again, zero shame.

No, like everyone needs to live the life that they want and there's zero judgment. I just knew me. I could never forgive him. And so I needed to be honest with him about that. And again, I just set him up for success because I'd done the internal work. I knew what I wanted. I knew what I was okay with. I knew what boundary that I wouldn't be okay with and that if he crossed it,

that it would be a non-negotiable. And then I had my negotiable things where I was like, look, I really want this, but it isn't, it's not a must. Let's talk about it. Let's talk through it. And then you start to adapt. But knowing your preferences, knowing what your desires are, knowing what your wants are, being able to be comfortable to speak

those out loud. And if you're not comfortable speaking those out loud, you shouldn't be in a relationship. Oh, that, that I will, I will, 15th behind you on that. Like, I, I, boundaries and non-negotiables are how you don't lose yourself. Boundaries, like, I know that with my partner. I'm very similar. Like, I was like, when we even moved in, I was like, I'm going to tell you right now, here's some ground rules. If, like, when we were talking about moving in, I was like, it's not an ultimatum. Like, you don't want to do this. That's totally cool. I will fuck off. I was like, but I'll tell you right now, I grew up in a household where I had to walk on eggshells. It was always inconsistent. And I was like, the

person I go to bed to is the person I want to wake up to. If you're having a bad day, just say, hey, I'm at 10%. I'm not in the mood. Let me know. I was like, but you cannot just decide that you're going to have this whole thing in your head and then scream at me because I did something that you don't like. And it's been reiterated and we have talked about it. And I come very confidently when he acts up like, we had that yesterday. He said something and I looked at him and I was like, we are not, this is not happening in this house. I was like, I'm telling you right now. I said, never will I accept the way you spoke to me and how you snapped at me. And he just looked at me and was like, you're right.

That was really fucking inappropriate. I am so sorry. I need to learn how to communicate. I have this on my list to talk to my therapist. And I was like, cool, just clarifying to you the boundaries. And what that does is you actually then feel closer to your partner when you are able to communicate like that versus when you have no confidence. And it's, oh, I don't want to say anything.

I'm scared. I'm going to walk the boat. I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared of. Losing somebody you never fucking had. I'd much rather say what I have and have a partner that's amazing that's standing next to me because he loves my conviction versus me.

Let me just be what you want today and see if this is going to work because it didn't work with my dad when I was a kid. So what makes me think it's going to work in this relationship? There's something else here now. Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus, it's the series Stephen King calls Scarious Hell. Everything here is impossible, but it's also real. Sci-fi vision calls it the best show streaming right now.

We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules. Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. Yeah, dude. And then let's be honest, there's no other feeling more alone than not being seen when you're in a relationship. I could not agree more. Lisa, this was one of my favorite conversations.

Thank you for being such a light. And honestly, also just being so honest about your journey. And I think that transparency allows. people like me and anybody to be able to say, oh, wait, okay, so it's not unattainable. Everybody started where I'm at. It just means I need to put in the work and I need to be patient with myself. I don't know about you. It took me eight years to get to where I'm at right now, and I can't wait in another eight years to turn, God willing, to turn around and see this. So I'm just, thank you for being so vulnerable and thank you for writing such an incredible

book and just for sharing the messages that you do. I'll do. Thank you for having me. And yeah, I mean, I've been doing the work for 10 years and I always think of it as ever going. You know, like, I plan to live till I'm 100 and I don't say that as a joke. I actually plan to. So I'm trying to figure out right now how I work on my hormones and my brain and like I take this stuff very seriously. But in order to do that, I really do want to keep growing. So when you think about it, I'm 44, I still got so many years to keep growing and doing the work. And I just think of myself as I'm never going to be done. And that's actually very empowering to me because when I fall on my face and I fail at something that I've tried,

whether it's trying to build confidence in an area that I don't have the confidence. If I keep failing, I just keep telling myself, but you've got, I think it's Lisa Nichols that said, you've got one more get up. And it's like every time I fall, just ask yourself, do I have one more get up? And if you say yes, then you can just keep going time and time again. And so I plan to do that for the next 60 years at least. I love that. I do that in the gym when I'm like, you can do one more.

And it's like, that just helps you to be like, yes, I can. I'm so excited. And for everybody, you got to go get Lisa's book. It's going to be linked in the show notes. Lisa, where can people find you if they want to listen more? I know you have your podcast, Women of Impact. Just if you could do a little plug really quick before you head off. Yeah, absolutely.

So if you want to hear you on my show, they can go to Women of Impact and listen to on podcast or YouTube, whether you're listening to this. And if you want to get my book, Radical Confidence, we do go deeper onto everything that we just spoken about. I'm very tactical with stories around the tactics so that people can really embrace the reality of what certain things take. But, look, confidence. is never one and done. It's like a muscle. It's a, you know, like a skill set. You have to keep

working out. You have to keep refining it. And so don't be yourself up when you find yourself that you don't have the confidence. Just grab my book, Radical Confidence. And it'll be your blueprint to be able to keep coming back to whenever you're trying anything new and you want the confidence. So whether that's relationships, dating. I talk about all of that, how I brought my confidence in my relationship and then how we built Quest to Impact Theory. So yeah, that's radical confidence where books are sold. Awesome. Thank you again so much. I'm so excited to continue our chat soon.