The Sabrina Zohar Show - 8: Intuition vs anxiety, calming your nervous system and learning to trust yourself with Masha Kay!

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

This week Sabrina is joined by Masha Kay to talk all things nervous system pt 2! They go over differentiating intuition vs anxiety, calming your nervous system and ways to self sooth and learning to trust yourself!  Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad-free episodes and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Dont forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on instagram and Sabrina on Tik tok! Video now available on YOUTUBE!  Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am the host of Do the Work podcast. I am so excited to have you guys back for another amazing episode. And we are doing part two of our episode with Ms. Masha Kay. Masha is here today to talk to us about intuition first gut, calming your nervous system and learning to trust yourself. So without further ado, let's get into this episode. Okay, we're back for another episode of Do the Work podcast. So excited to have you back, Masha. Thank you for coming back for part two. I am so excited. Part one was so much fun. but we have so much more to talk about. We needed to do a part too, and I'm so honored to be here.

I think the best bet is you just start and tell us who you are, reintroduce yourself for the folks that maybe didn't hear episode five. Hint, hint, hint, go listen to episode five. And yeah, tell us what you do. Yeah, so my name is Masha Kay. I'm a nervous system and breathwork coach, and that doesn't really mean a lot to somebody who doesn't know what the nervous system is.

But basically, I help people learn to regulate their nervous system, learn to optimize their well-being, and reconnect with who they are in order to be able to make sustainable changes in their lives because the reality is the reason we're not making progress or changing in our relationship, in our careers is because of the nervous system. The nervous system stops us because its job is to keep us safe. And so when we learn to regulate our nervous system, when we learn to connect with ourselves on a very deep level and trust ourselves, then the work of moving forward on your goals becomes that much easier. And so I help

with that whole journey. To clarify, because I've always taken it as the nervous system is kind of so you have your attachment styles. And I've always taken it as that your nervous system is responding to whatever attachment style that you deal with and manifesting your behavior from that. Am I correct on that? Kind of. Yeah. So the reality, like your attachment style is basically how your nervous system learn to keep you safe as a child. Okay. So our nervous system's job is to keep us safe. And so in early childhood, any experience that happens to us, our nervous system kind of takes note and is like, wait, if this happened in childhood, it's probably going to keep happening. Now, that's not true now, but in the wild, right, if there was a tiger jumping out at you at age three, it's going to

keep jumping out of you for the rest of your life. So you better develop a survival mechanism to protect you from that tiger. So when things happen in our childhood that are painful or uncomfortable, our nervous system remembers and develops different survival mechanisms to help us move forward. And so attachment is how we learn to survive, basically, in relationship. When our needs are not getting met, physical, mental, or emotional, our nervous system takes note. And it's like, okay, what would be the best way to make sure our needs still get met? Anxious attachment is your nervous system saying, like, hey, your primary caregiver isn't around consistently. So the best way for you to get your needs met is for you to get really loud and become hypervigilant. And that works. If a baby's

always crying and nagging, right? It will, its needs will get. met a little bit more than if it just stayed quiet, right? And so your nervous system learns that, and then it continues that. And we call this blueprint of relationship attachment. Okay. Now, an interesting question, because, like, for instance, my brother and I, same, I mean, on paper, same childhood, same parents, but wildly different attachment styles. I'm incredibly anxious and textbook. He's very avoidant, and he retreated in that way. How do you see that manifesting in this situation? Yeah. So this is really interesting. One of, the people that I love most in this world, Dr. Gabor Mate, he talks about this and he says,

no two children grew up in the same family. Right? So you don't know what it's like to have you as a sister. Your brother doesn't know what it's like, you know, in reverse, your parents, although they love you guys equally, never treat kids exactly equally, right? There's age gaps. There's different experiences. And so because of that, it does come out very different. And often we play off one another. So often with siblings, you will see one is anxious, one is avoidant, right? Because the way the avoidant responded to the anxious is like, oh, their emotions are really big. That overwhelms me. So they protect themselves almost from their siblings or their parents by taking on the opposite attachment. So we kind of play off that way in relationship in general, which is why in partnership

then we often have that different dynamic as well. We're playing off one another. And then we're attracting what's familiar. So if you were anxious and your parents, were avoidant or your brother was avoidant, you might now attract avoidance because that actually feels familiar to your nervous system. Right. And it's an age-old thing of like, I married my father, I married my mother. I married, you know, like it's so creepy. All the guys I date all look like my brother. They're all tall, dark, handsome, like, you know, athletic, thin. And it's like, uh, it's, I guess maybe Oedipus. Maybe I don't fucking know. But I think probably the number one question I get just even in the world of what we're doing is how do I know? How do I differentiate? Is this

anxiety or is it my gut? Because when I've talked to my therapist and has worked through this, at least in relationships, specifically, the way that I identify personally is that your gut reaction is actually quite a calm reaction. It's not because it's not coming from childhood traumas. It's not coming from a space of whatever you had as far as experiences. Like I equated to, if you walked by a dark alley, you're not going to start going up in arms and feeling this. Your gut is saying you're not fucking walking down that because you know better. versus when you're anxious, you've got the narrative that starts to play, you've got that familiarity, and you have those core beliefs that you are trying to reaffirm. And that's really, at least for me,

when I'm working with the dating sphere of like, how are you able to differentiate between your anxiety and intuition when it comes to dating? But I'd love to hear your thought process on the nervous system and how you feel you can tell the difference between the two. Yes. And so this is like a really interesting topic. And I think there's a little bit of overlap, like it's nuanced, right? Because I would actually say when you're walking by, dark alley, your survival instinct is kicking it as well. Your nervous system is like, wait, dark alley, you know, shady, something looks uncomfortable. Your nervous system is remembering that and now is getting activated, right? It's a cue of danger. Which, and I totally agree. And I think

the difference though is your gut is telling you if you walk down the alley, that's when the anxiety starts to spew because a lot of times I think our gut will say it. And then our nervous system is like, cool, she's not listening. And it feels like it then it starts to compensate. Exactly. So it's like a little bit of both and you're right. It like starts as one and turns into the, other, absolutely. And so the way I think about it, very similar to how you were thinking about, like one, yes, absolutely, your instinct, your intuition, gut or intuition, I kind of will use those interchangeably. Gut and intuition is going to be very neutral. Yeah. It's going to be very calm. It's going to be very grounded. If you're into spirituality, when we talk about the higher

self-consciousness, it's that very level energy. Your intuition is going to be very similarly. Now, let's look at it from a nervous system standpoint. If you are activated, if your nervous system is dysregulated. You cannot access your intuition. Once you go into a survival state, now we have two different survival states. One is very activated and mobilized. One is shut down. Doesn't matter which one you're in. Once you go into that state, you completely lose connection to your intuition. That parts of your brain start turning off, you do not have access to that, right? Survival instinct has taken over. It works much faster than your prefrontal cortex. So that is not available to you. So what I always say to people is if you're trying to think about a relation,

be like, is this right for me or is this not or a job, right? I talk about both those things a lot. I always say to people, if you are dysregulated, you're not going to find that answer. So the work is get regulated. Regulate your nervous system. Come back to a grounded place. And once you're in a grounded place, we could start doing the work of like pulling things apart, identifying things, right?

What is a need? What is a boundary? What do I really want? You feel more connected to your desires. You feel connected to your body. Your body's sending a lot of messages, right? Like, why do we say intuition is in our gut? there's certain sensations.

When you're in a survival reaction response, you don't feel that you are completely disconnected from that. So the number one step is always, what actions can you take to get to a more regulated place because your judgment will be clouded? Like that person might not be right for you. Right. And you might be having that dysregulation.

Both might be happening, but to really understand if they're not right for you, you first need to deal with the dysregulation. Right. And then you could address it. Both could be true, but you cannot make that call. Right.

when you're dysregulated. Yeah, I was reading something the other day in like a psychology magazine of like, if you're in the ruminating thoughts, you're not in your front cortex, which is decision making, which is why, at least when I'm giving advice to you guys of like how to manage your anxiety,

the first thing I always tell everybody is like, ground yourself. Get yourself back to where you are, calm, your nervous system because you're not making any decisions, which kind of think I'd go into that overthinking component of like, when I'm in that dysregulated space, nothing makes sense. There is no, like, law.

There is no, like, logic. That goes out the brain. Anxious brain is, I need to hold on to as many core beliefs. I need to hold on to as much of the shit thinking and I need to hold on to as much of what's familiar for me because that's what I know. So I'm going to keep perpetuating that because that's what saved me up until now. Me hyper-focusing on the fear of the future and being abandoned and all that, that got us to where we are through childhood into adulthood.

But now what it's about is, one, identifying where you learned all of this behavior. That I think is like the most fucking important aspect of that interstate. child work, but then, too, learning how to self-soothe, which is what I want to ask you next, but learning how to self-soothe in those moments that you can come back to equilibrium and then make decisions from a more informed, secure space, as opposed to in dysregulation. Yes, and I agree with you, except one thing I would change is those two steps reverse the order. We first need to regulate our nervous systems back to our more grounded, regulated, I call it ventral, when talking about polyvagal theory, to a more ventral place. And then once you're in that

place, your prefrontal cortex turns on, because whenever we go into survival, prefrontal cortex turns off. Right? So once that prefrontal cortex is back on, then pulling things apart, talking things out, then those things become powerful, like including even therapy, right? But when we're dysregulated, talking using logic is pointless, which is why if you try to talk to someone when they're in dysregulation, you can give them all the answers, all the logic. It's not going to help. Just like a child. If a child is dysregulated and emotional, you could explain the situation. them 40 times, but they won't hear you. Right? And so that's why we first need to kind of develop some kind of toolkit to get regulated

before we go into analyzing, thinking, and intellectualizing. And that's the mistake I think everyone makes. No, I'm with you on that. I think maybe I said it wrong, but I think 100%. The first step is grounding yourself to getting yourself back to the present moment so that you can tap into those tools, whether it's meditation, like we'll talk about some self-soothing tools. That's number one. Number one is just reminding yourself where you are not going into the thoughts and not continuing to perpetuate them and sitting sitting.

in the rumination, and then it's figuring out your toolbox. Then, only then, can you then tackle anything further. And I think that's a lot of what happens on social media and, like, in this world, right? Like, I'm sure you see it where people come here disregulated and they're asking for answers from this dysregulated place and they're trying to intellectualize and analyze from a disregulated place. And they're just going in circles and like, I need more information. I need more books, more, more, more, but more will not resolve the dysregulation. You can't think or intellectualize your way out of dysregulation, it is of the body. You need to change your physiological state. And I think people are really missing that and they're going in circles. And that's actually

destroying their level of self-trust because they're like, I can't trust myself. My brain doesn't work. You know, some people will say to me like, I have to have multiple personalities because I say one thing than the other. And I'm like, you know, you don't have multiple personalities by no means. That's not what bipolar means. I've had people ask me that because they feel so different when they're dysregulated and regulated. And that's what's actually happening. When you're disregulated, you are literally a very different person. You have a completely different lens on the world. Your story about the world always follows the state of your nervous system. A lot of people when I talk about anxiety, they'll be like, that's borderline personality disorder. I'm like, first of all,

you're not a doctor to being diagnosing that. You need to be diagnosed with that in hand. And that's why Masha and I will never diagnose other people. We're not doctors. That's not our job. Our job, though, is to understand where you are, meet you where you are, and give you the tools to help. So when it comes to tools, what are some things that you work on with clients? Like, how does self-soothing look, at least for what you do? And then I can also share some of my techniques after. Yeah. So I'm going to talk a little bit about the nervous system, like explaining what I teach. So I always educate, I always start no matter what I'm working on with a client, matter what kind of goals, you know, relationship, career, whatever it may be, personal life.

I always start with educating them about their nervous system. We call it befriending. Befriend your nerve, get to know your unique nervous system because it is. Our nervous systems are very unique because of our trauma, because of our lived experiences. Like, that's kind of like the really cool, like, mind-blowing thing about the nervous system is your nervous system is perfectly customized to your lived experience. It is literally more to your, right? So cool.

It's so freaking cool. It's so freaking brilliant if you really think about it. Like, you had these pains and traumas in your nervous system formed around them to protect you. And all your responses are not random and fucked up. They are all perfectly customized to really painful, difficult things that happen and your nervous system trying to protect you from them. Like your nervous system is not broken. It is just working really fucking well. Like that's kind of our biggest problem.

Our nervous system was really fucking well and it's not designed for the modern world. No. And that's why a lot of, like to put this into kind of the dating perspective, which I think a lot of people need the bridge gap. It's that's why when I say so for instance, you didn't get the text that you want. For when you were a child, it was normal because you had, you had fear of abandonment and your body told you that you need to anticipate other people's needs. and protect yourself. So thus you go into, okay, well, I know what's going to happen so I can anticipate it because that is your caregiver and you are understanding that. The problem is that as you get into the real fucking world and you start dating, that's not your mama and that's not your father.

These people are not the people that did that to you. So you consistently project how you handled those situations onto them, which is where I constantly go into if you start freaking out because you haven't gotten the text message. Have you noticed for those on here that you do the same behavior with people. It's never different. It's the same fucking thing over and over. And that's why at one point my mom used to stop me and go, you realize it's the same guy, just a different face, just add a different name because you are treating everybody as if they are the people that caused you that anxiety and those triggers. But what you're not understanding is you have to learn to differentiate that and soothe within yourself to be able to see the situation differently because those

are not the same people. 100%. Right. Your nervous system projects the past onto the present. And when you're disregulated, you almost can't tell the difference. And so what's Sabrina saying, you're absolutely right, which is you need to kind of remind yourself, like, wait, this isn't my mom, this isn't my dad. And I have way more control in this situation than I did back then, right? But to come back to your question, because I know I didn't answer it of like, okay, how do you regulate? So back to this idea of like, okay, your nervous system is really brilliant. It's customized to your lived experience. There's nothing broken about. I don't care what diagnosis you have. Your nervous system is not broken. Is functioning exactly it was designed to do. Right. Fixing it. There's no

fixing it. We're not fixing it whatsoever because it wasn't broken. You're not broken. Like, that is a core belief that I work with. You are not broken and you need to work on remembering that, right? So once we understand that, we start thinking, okay, what does your unique nervous system look like? And how does it move through the different states? Now, a tiny bit of education on the nervous system. So our nervous systems have three distinct states. Okay. Right? We have a state of regulation of safety. Right? And we could talk about what that looks like. I know that was one of the questions we wanted to talk about. We have a state of safety when we feel grounded. We feel present in our bodies, the prefrontal cortex is online. Our body is functioning optimally. All the organ

systems of the body, which are connected through your nervous system are functioning optimally, right? Your metabolism, all the things. Your immune system, your productive organs. That only happens when you're regulated, by the way. So you know you're living in a dysregulated way, consistently living in survival. I can bet you have gut issues. I can bet you have anxiety, like all of that. That's, again, it's not broken. You're nervous to meant to do that. It's just not meant to live in that. Right. And that's why now we have all these. chronic health issues, right? Again, away from the point. So that's a regulated state. And now we have two states of dysregulation. I promise this is really important to regulating. We have two states of

dysregulation. One is what we call fighter flight. I call it sympathetic because it's a little more. It's when your body mobilizes to keep you safe. So if you're calm and fine, you're walking in the wild and you hear something in the bushes, you hear a threat, right? Your nervous system is going to mobilize preparing to fight or run from the tiger. So what's going to happen? Your breath is going to speed up. your heart rate speeds up. There's a lot of blood flow to muscles. Your vision becomes very narrow, right? All of this, literally, your saliva changes. Everything changes to help you mobilize. Your immune system turns off, metabolism, anything that's not necessary. Like, it's so brilliant. Your body's mobilizing to simply fight or run. Yeah. Right. So that's sympathetic. That's one state of

dysregulation. Now, the second state is if that same tiger catches you, what's going to happen is you're actually going to play dead. Right? You're going to become immobilized, shut down. And what's What's happening is all that survival energy didn't go away. It gets shoved down. And the hope is, A, maybe if I play dead, the tiger will drop me and I could get away and all that energy is ready to be used. Right. Or if the tiger is going to eat me, then I don't want to feel pain. So when we're in this immobilized state, think depression, we are numb. We are disconnected from our bodies, disconnected from emotions. It's why people describe traumas. I was out of my body. Literally, your body's preparing for death. It's trying to protect you. And it becomes immobilized and shut down. So that's a second state of survival, right? And so anxiety might fall more into the first. Depression, lack of motivation, hopelessness is falling more into the second. Would you have any correlation between avoidance and anxious? Like, would maybe one, I'm sure this kind of person I ask this. Yes, they're very interconnected.

So this is why the nervous system attachment, right? So someone who is more anxious leans more towards the sympathetic. They're living in that like everything feels threatening and I need to look for solutions and answers because the tiger's right around the corner. I might need to fight. I might need to run. Someone who leans avoidant when they get overwhelmed, they often go very dorsal. That's what it's called shutdown. It's called dorsal. So they withdraw. They feel hopeless. Like this is pointless. This isn't even going to work. What's the point of this relationship, right? If we're talking the context of relationship, that's exactly it. They keep themselves safe by, A, self-regulating, but B, they get a little more shut down and hopeless and withdraw on.

Like, there's no point of this. Whereas the anxious, they attach, it's like, I need to figure something out. I need to hold on to someone and I need other people. Okay. So now that's, we have this understanding of these two different survival states, the tools that you're going to use to regulate will be very different depending on which state you're in. And I think this is what people get wrong. They think all regulation tools are awesome. But each of us will have a unique set of tools that work for a unique nervous system in different times. When you're more in that sympathetic energy, and I think people that you're listening to, you might lean a little bit more towards that, like when we're thinking anxiety. What I want you to think is that in that state, you have too much mobilizing energy.

your body is prepared to fight a tiger or run from a tiger and you're just trying to sit there calm. Right. Right. There is too much mobilizing energy in your body, which feels like anxiety. Like, oh, why do I feel so uneasy? Why? And we start trying to do. Some people start trying to clean.

Some people start sending a bunch of text messages. Right? It's like your nervous system wants to do something. And so the way we deal with that dysregulation has to be, what is a safe way for me to discharge this energy? Physically move this energy out of my body. which needs to be step one. Something for people to remember is anxiety is energy. It is energy and that's why.

Moralizing, whatever. Yeah, it's like we're giving the tools of, exactly, instead of reverting to the safe space of I need to co-regulate with someone. So if they just tell me everything's okay, my nervous system will be okay. It's about, well, know how do you self-regulate? Because when you lean more anxious,

you've got to learn how to self-regulate. Exactly. You need to self-regulate. And the tools you use, so for example, here meditation is not always effective for people. Meditation actually works best when we're regulated. when we're dorsal, it could withdraw us even further and kind of like feel out of our bodies. And when we're sympathetic, it might feel really unsafe to sit down and close your eyes. So for a lot of people, that increase a lot of anxiety happens, right?

And so what we want to do in sympathetic is this is going to sound silly, but this is what animals do in the wild. Guys, did you ever think about why animals don't get traumatized? Because they know how to move that energy out of their body. So if you've ever seen an animal like a dog or a bird that's just been like there was a threat, like a bird that flew into a window or a dog that something happened to. What do they do afterwards? They go and they shake their body to release that energy, right? And so we could do that as human beings. We could get up, dance, jump, go for a walk, physically move that energy out of your body.

There's types of breathwork that are more activating. There are really good. So we were talking about like breath of fire at that point is like moving the energy out of your body using music, using movement using going outside, but you want to think like a safe discharge. You could scream into a pillow. That works too. Punch a pillow. I don't give a shit. Exactly.

But it's actually physically moving the energy out of your body. It is not intellectualizing. If you try to think your way out, you will just go in circles. And actually, that might spiral you into that dorsal state where you eventually just shut down. Yeah, which is why, like, my first suggestion would be like, I don't do with them anxious. I'm like, put your fucking phone down. Stop staring at what's causing you the anxiety.

Go for a walk. I'm like, I don't care if you hit yourself in the head. I don't care if you have to do something to remind yourself where you are right now, but you've got to move it. That's why I'm like, go work out, go do yoga, go do something to where you feel, okay, I'm not ruminating on the same thought process. For me personally, anxiety, or anxiety, anxiety, hi, 40 and slip. Meditation helped with my anxiety, but that was also because I cultivated a meditation practice.

It wasn't like, I've never done this before, so let me just sit down and breathe in and out and go for 20 minutes. But it was because it's something I have worked in my toolbox that helped me in those moments to say it's time for us to separate between the thoughts and the emotion, stop attaching to the thoughts. But I think like you said, it's a great point of you do that when you're regulated. So if you go outside, you go for a walk, you feel like, okay, I'm not feeling that as much. Then I think you, correct me if I'm wrong, then I think it's a safer space when you're brought down to say, okay, now it's time for me to just allow myself to be with my thoughts but not attached to

them. 100%. Exactly. And so yes, at that point when you feel a little bit more regulated, you can start to think about, okay, which of my needs are not being met? Right. What am I really looking for here? Where is this really coming from? Is this really about this person or is this, you know, some stuff from my childhood coming up? Like, once you're regulated, you can do that. That's the good place to like get support, like talking kind of support, right?

That could be really, really helpful. But that's sympathetic and you're so right, like going for a walk, working out. But if that feels too hard, because it is, I think the hardest part is catching, oh, I'm dysregulated. So that's why, like, with all my clients, honestly, for the first month, we just work. on identifying what is dysregulation because it could be very gradual. And sometimes people catch it when it's almost too late when it's like bordering a panic attack. It's very hard to come back from but if you learn to like identify it early, you could take steps. So first it's like getting clear on what am I dysregulated? And secondly, it's they do something really small. So sometimes I'll tell

people like take a deep breath. Like I was just showing the physiological breath. It's a really, really simple where you inhale two times through your nose and then you exhale with a nice big sigh. So sighing actually literally helps move that mobilizing energy out of your body. Oh, you should hear me in every yoga class. I'm like, and people make fun of me and I'm like, I'm getting it out. But that's what you need to do. That's what we should all do. I've learned it.

Yes, I've learned it. 100%. And I think, too, like, I think a good point about what all of these things that Masha is bringing up is like, everyone's different. Everybody is going to have. We have to build that different toolkit. Everyone's going to have. So, like, we can give you 3,000 different things, but you have to try it to see.

And I think that kind of plays into like triggers. It's like identifying, and it's also too, like when you're dating, if you know certain things trigger you, then please kindly stop fucking doing those. Like if you see that dating a specific kind of person is constantly triggering you because that person said they don't want a relationship or they're not ready for anything, but yet you keep going back. You keep triggering yourself and bringing yourself back to what's familiar. So it's identifying that and then also putting your big girl pants on to walk away from

those situations because otherwise you're going to live in a constant state of dysregulation while you're trying to understand the other person, but you're taking it off yourself and you're not actually getting anything done. You both are just, that's the avoid an anxious trap, I feel. You both just keep perpetuating the same behavior because it's familiar. Yeah, and yes, absolutely.

But I will say there's a little bit of like nuance to this that I see with clients a lot, which is absolutely. Part of regulating, like sometimes people just talk a lot about like physical things you can do and tools you can use to regulate. And I think that's really important, but that's only part of the work.

You really do have to look at your life and identify what are the tigers, quote, unquote, in my life that I need to get rid of. Like real tigers, maybe it's my relationship. Maybe it's a job because those things are bringing this chronic dysregulation and you have to get rid of them. And I think that's exactly what you're talking about. However, there is like nuance to the triggers, right? Because triggers are basically cues of danger to our nervous system. And a lot of times are things that are genuinely dangerous, like people who aren't really there and supporting us, people who aren't emotionally available, right? obvious trigger. That's a trigger for most people, as it should be. However, a lot of us also have

triggers that are coming from our childhood that are no longer needed or valid and actually holding us back. And so that's what I was talking about where it's like learning to regulate your nervous system opens all of these doors. For example, for a lot of my clients, you know, I can give a work example of or like a life example where for a lot of clients, they're constantly in that sympathetic fight or flight and literally relaxing on vacations. Don't feel. That. That choice. It's foreign. Exactly. They are triggered by rest.

They are triggered by being in a regulated state. So we need to work through that, right? You're not going to avoid vacations and live in sympathetic. You need to learn to not be as triggered, regulate your nervous, to show your nervous system. This thing is safe. It's not actually dangerous. Even in relationships, though. And like, you know where I'm probably going with them.

I was just going to say, please tell me you're going to go where I think you're going to go. Exactly. A lot of us, when we grew up with what's familiar is emotionally unavailable men, let's use that example, right? emotionally available men don't feel safe to our nervous system and they trigger the fuck out of our nervous system. Love doesn't feel safe. Like those kind of things don't feel safe to us. Totally. And that's why a lot of people, oh, healthy is boring. It's like, no, it's consistent. It's not boring. You just don't feel triggered all the time, which is what we're seeking a calm nervous system. And I think also, too, the triggers, I think that could be misconstrued. It's like the texting even, for instance, of like, that guy didn't text me all day.

And it's like, so you're getting triggered by the perception of abandonment, but you're not, you're seeing it through a very cloudy lens. You're seeing it to me through that childhood lens, as opposed to through the adult that understands that that's not a, that's not a longer a threat. Just because somebody didn't text you to reassure you, that is not a trigger to start going all up in arms. What that is, that is the prime example of that's deeper shit. That is something else is there. This isn't the person's behavior because something so minute should not set you off. And then that also goes back into so you want other people to regulate you? instead of you figuring out because that's my number one,

like one of my biggest non-negotiables with tech guy and like I've told you this is the fact that he can manage his emotions. That's really fucking hot to me that even when he's dysregulated or when he's feeling those things, he doesn't take it out on me. He understands how to differentiate between the triggers of what's going on and then his relationship. Yes, 100%.

And that is emotional maturity, right? And you're absolutely right with triggers. This is kind of, when I say I help people learn to regulate their nervous system, This is really what it is like the deeper stuff, which is understanding what are your triggers and then going deeper into what are they? So there's the surface level trigger of, oh, he doesn't text me right away. That's like the tangible action that triggers you. But what's really important to understand once you're regulated in a safe space to think about what is the narrative for me? Oh, the subtext.

What is the subtext? What is the ped line, right? Because it's kind of like, you know that experience that like you're at dinner with someone, someone picks up their phone and we all feel it. You feel it. but each of our stories will be different, right? Me and you might be like, oh, I hate when someone picks up their phone at dinner, but for me, it might be, I feel disrespected.

For you, it might be, I'm abandoned. Exactly. Like, my dad used to do that when you're kids, and I feel like you're not, or I'm not being heard. I'm not being listened to. It's a different experience for everybody, but thus it's still manifesting itself. Exactly.

And so once we understand what's deeper, we can really look at it, like, wait a second. Am I actually not being respected here? Or is this something like personal that I really need to work through? And once we understand that, And then we get regulated. We could come back to thinking about, okay, is there a boundary I need to set around this?

Or is this really not that big a deal? This is really something that's mine and I'm willing and able to work through it. Yeah, which is also sometimes like when I get the tough love and when I say get a grip, I don't mean it to be a dick. I mean it to be a get your, gain control of your thought process because you are spiraling. When you start, not you, the proverbial you, but when we work with clients and I'm sure you've seen this too, where we start to see the spiral. And it's like, when I say get a grip, it's like you need to understand.

that you are in the now. You are here. You're not living from that, you keep coming from that emotional age of the child, which is constantly reaffirming that nervous system that he, this is right. See, I'm right. I knew I was right. That guy didn't text me and you look for, you look for evidence to reaffirm your shit as opposed to, no, I'm doing it again. I am causing this as opposed to he didn't text me. And then you start acting differently and then you reaffirmed yourself. See, I knew it. That was my, I was right. 100%. And the only thing I would say differently, you're 100% about reconfirming that same pattern, right? When you give into it, you are strengthening that pattern.

Any choice we make is either strengthening an existing pattern or breaking an existing pattern and creating a new one, right? And like what you described is exactly that. You are strengthening, reconfirming that false narrative. However, and you know this, you can't think your way out of it. Like so when we tell people like, come on, get a grip, they can't because they're dysregulated. No. And that's kind of like what I help people realize.

They're like, why do I know what I should do? but in the moment I don't do it. What's wrong with me? And why do I keep falling into the same trap? And it's like what I find helps people like get a sense of, I don't know, a sense of like self-compassion maybe. And like self-acceptance is realizing like, wait a second, I literally don't have the ability to catch myself in that moment.

Like my prefrontal cortex is not a line. I can't think my way out. It's not that something is broken. It's that my nervous system has taken over. And so if I could just learn to shift that a little bit, then I could apply. all this knowledge that I'm learning. Because I think, like, so many people that I talk to

and you probably have the same experience, they know so much. They read so many books. They listen so many people. And then the struggle to actually take action on it. And I think it does give a certain level of understanding where you're like, wait, it's not that I don't know enough or need more information.

I am just struggling to regulate in that moment. If I was regulated, I would be able to use all this amazing information, wisdom that I've accumulated throughout my life. Yeah, but it starts somewhere. There's an awareness that has to be cultivated. When I say get a grip, there is an awareness where otherwise you'll spiral for days. You could go, you could dance all the way through this to fucking China. And if you don't at least cultivate to start somewhere of I'm doing it again, that's where I, like for me, at least in my journey throughout this whole thing, I used to be so dysregulated most of the time that it was hard for people to be around me because they felt my constant state of dysregulation.

They felt it. You could feel the energy and my sister would even say, I can't be next to you. It's too much. She learned that though in childhood She learned that there's no patience For what she's going through Because my dad would always walk out Well I didn't know this

I didn't know this for years I didn't understand So it was the same dynamics being played over and over again But as I started to cultivate an awareness I did have to start telling myself Dude you need to get a grip of yourself Because I knew very well What the narrative I was repleting

It was the same fucking thing I have been experiencing for years Totally 100% But there's different levels of your healing journey There's something else here now. Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus. It's the series Stephen King calls Scary as Hell.

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and I get that all the time of like, I know what to do, but why can't I do it? So what would your suggestion be to those people? If you know what to do but you can't do it, chances are it is the dysregulation. You are just not in control and you know all the information when you come back. Damn it, I know what I'm supposed to do.

Yeah. But I didn't do it, right? And so my suggestion, I bet like this is where you started too, like that's where you're talking about the awareness, is having awareness of wait a second, I think my nervous is, is dysregulated. That's what I always tell people. Number one, if you could just start

identifying what dysregulation feels like in your body, what each of those two dysregulated states feel like. And you could start calling that out. A second, you call it out to yourself, you're kind of separating from it. You're like, wait a second. This is dysregulation. And I know if this is dysregulation, I need to address this dysregulation before I address the situation, right? And so that awareness comes before action. And then once people build that awareness, and even if they keep falling into the same pattern for a while. If you keep having that awareness of, oh, this is dysregulation and this regulation just made me do X, Y, and Z, which I always do.

And you do that four or five times. You're like, the seven time, the 10th time, you're going to be like, wait, this is dysregulation and I'm about to do X, Y, and Z again, what could I do slightly differently? Can I take a breath? And so then it becomes these gradual tools, very, very small things we start doing to start coming into our bodies. And in that process, we're like learning slowly to take control of ourselves. Yeah, because I think ultimately too, I think that's why, like, a lot of my videos resonate with people is because I am that voice when they're, because I get so many people like, you've stopped me from spiraling. I am that, hey, you're doing it again because it's a lot of, you know, the behavior. You've become very comfortable with that behavior. And I think this is what, like, I've told you this. Like, this is what I love about your content versus like a lot of stuff in this world is you are calling people out and like, wait, this is your stuff. And you need to take care of that within yourself. And then we could look at.

to the relationship of what's happening there, right? But don't go pointing fingers at them before you've really turned the awareness inward. And I think a lot of people in this world are kind of like, because it's an easy sell or talking about the other person. And that's what everyone wants to hear because it's easier than taking responsibility and looking at yourself. And so I think you are that like, wait, bring awareness to what's happening for you, what's happening for you.

And when you hear that enough, hopefully you could pause enough to be like, wait, it's me. And then the next question is going to be, okay, what do I do to regulate myself? how do I stop consuming content and actually go and regulate myself? Like Sabrina just told me to do that. How do I go and regulate? Actually do it. Yeah, instead of watching more videos. You know what I mean?

I'm perpetuating it and continuing going. Thank you. And I appreciate that. But I think that's sometimes why I'll be very harsh. And which I love about your content is very educational. You're explaining to people, this is why there's nothing wrong with you. I am here to explain you the science behind what you're feeling. And then I'm here to go, and now it's implemented.

it. So it's a really great tag team, which is why Masha has so much success with her clients and vice versa. And I have so much success with people that I work on because it's just different ways of, I think a lot of the times, we're talking the same language. We're talking about the same shit. And we're doing very similar things. Absolutely. Just manifesting. So really quick, because I know we're getting. So let's go do a little right lightning round. Okay. I'd like to. And you know what, fuck it. We'll do a third part. We'll do a part three. We can always keep going. But for part two. Okay. So here, really quick, how do you tell you are regulated in healing? Yes, okay. I would start with thinking about what does dysregulation feel like for you.

Really understanding dysregulation first is kind of where I start, but what does regulated feel like? Actually, I want to answer the second part. She said regulated or healing, right? That's what the question we got. You know your healing when you notice there's more flexibility in your nervous system. We're not actually looking to be perfectly regulated all the time. That is not the goal with nervous system regulation. There is nothing wrong with you going into that sympathetic fight or flight state or even shutting down. those are completely normal. It's having flexibility. So you know your healing where the intensity,

duration, and frequency of that anxiety or of the behaviors that are not serving you starts to decrease. When that's intensity, duration frequency. When that starts to change,

you know you are healing. It is never going to be overnight. It is an ongoing journey. And so if you just notice like, oh, I'm anxious, but it's like it used to be a few hours and now it's like 30 minutes and I could like slowly pull myself out.

That's amazing. That means you're building flexibility. it means you're gaining control of your nervous system. That is what we are working towards. That is what we're learning to do. That is the goal. Well, it's like, when you start to see, like, I knew for me, the things that used to trigger me, stop triggering me as much.

Like, when I wouldn't get the text, I even would look and I'm like, oh, wow, I'm proud of you. You didn't even care because I got control over. And I also, I mean, from, I think when you're really talking about the healing stuff, it's like, I also started to reparent. The reparenting thing was, like, really big for me because I think a lot of the times, like, I've talked to so many therapists and it's like about the emotional age that you keep coming from. And that is why your nervous system is so dysregulated,

because you keep coming from that same space. And when you start to grow into, no, I'm here now to take care of me. And when I started to reparent my little child and let her know, you're no longer, this, not everybody's dad. Not everybody's dad and the threat and Joe leaving you and all of your family members abandoning you. That is no longer the case. I am here now and I am saving you. And I started to trust myself more. Yes, 100%. And I actually incorporate inner child and parts work into all of my work for that exact reason. Same. Same. Because I think it's so important.

So the nervous system is kind of like, oh, okay, I'm kind of pulling out of it and looking at it from a scientific lens. Which gives a little bit space to be less judgmental of yourself, basically. Like, I find that to be the first step. And then to bring in more compassion of way, I became this way for a very good reason. And that little child, that little girl still lives within me.

And it's not about getting rid of her and her bad behaviors. it's about having compassion for them. And then showing up for that little girl differently, parenting her in a way she didn't get parented through action. Right? And like this is where both of us like totally agree. It's about taking consistent action. And that action starts really small.

But over time it builds, it snowballs. There's like exponential growth. It might be for that little girl right now, I just take a breath. I tell her you don't need that text message. You just need to like show up for yourself. That might be step one. And then you might get to the point.

You're like, wait, this text message doesn't even bother me. And you're, like, connecting with that little child and noticing how safe she feels, right? And so it's just like this gradual process, but you're 100% right. That, like, compassion that comes from parts work and inner child work. That is where the healing happens. That is the healing. Almost every fucking client that I work with, to date, every time we'll start talking, the first thing I'll say is, well, let me know.

What happened to you up until about that age eight? Because I know from zero to seven is the egocentric phase. So whatever happens then is everything is about you. So, like, your parents are divorced. Oh, it's because of me. I wasn't good enough. and I caused them the divorce, things like that. Like fucking clockwork, every single client will say something

and you're like, there it is. And here you are acting this out over and over and over and over. And like you always say, it's not the big tease. Trauma can be perception of the experience. It could be my mom worked all the time and just wasn't there to meet my emotional needs. It doesn't mean she did anything wrong. As an adult, you can understand,

hey, my parents are the best they could and you can rationalize it and you can calm your own nervous system because you're a grown-ass adult. But the child, the reason that emotional age keeps happening doesn't understand. They're looking at it going, but they keep leaving me. Why do they keep leaving me? Because you don't get it.

So reparenting that and her child comes with that as well of, but you're safe now because I am here for you and we're no longer stuck there. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing rocha. Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids,

ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. 100%. And, like, honestly, all the actions we take when we're coaching and healing and doing the work, right,

is to reparent that inner child. That's basically every action you take, what the goal is to show that child that there is another way and show them we have other tools now. We don't need to do it that way. And I'm going to be here for you. That's all the action.

That's where the transformation happens in taking these gradual actions to show up for this child from this very understanding and compassionate place. Yeah, because I had an awesome client the other day and she's like, I know all this. But why can't I?

And I was like, have you talked to little you? And it was a mind blow. She was like, oh my God. And all the dog. And she's been reaching out to me being like, it's fucking working. And it's like, I know it is. Because she thinks she's running the show

and you have to let her know she no longer needs to. I'm okay. You no longer have to be in dysregulation. I'm here now. And I think it's a beautiful relationship you build with yourself. That's my favorite practice. 100%. And like the way I connected to the regulation now,

tying these two together is when you're dysregulated, a protective or wounded part has taken over. Yes. And it is driving your car. I always use the analogy of the car. Like who's driving it? Is it your higher authentic self? Or is it one of the protective or wounded parts?

And when we're disregulated, one of those parts like sits in the driver's seat and starts using this old coping mechanism that worked in the past. And our job is to kind of make that child feel safe and buckle them back in. And let them know, like, you are safe. I'm going to drive.

You don't need to be driving. Because for years, the kid took over. And that's exactly. There was no adult driving. Right. And it's like, and that's where you show up to save yourself. That's why I was saying,

no one's going to do this for you. That relationship, you think if he just text me, I'll be okay. You're kidding yourself. You are letting the little girl drive. You are letting her still fucking take over as opposed to, you're right, I need to be a grown-ass adult, and I need to now take control of this. And this is where that self-trust piece comes in.

I know we didn't talk about that. We said we would. But this is the self-trust piece, right? It's like you think that someone outside of you is going to save you or some achievement outside of you is going to fill that void. And all of this work is about realizing, like, the only person who could fill that void is you, that pain, that trauma that happened to you, you don't need another person to heal that.

Another person can't heal that. They can't rewrite history. but you could, when you build that relationship with yourself, and then that little child learns to trust you. Yeah, yeah. They could trust that you're going to show up, that you're not going to let men take advantage of them, that you're not going to allow, you know,

people who aren't right for you into your life or to exhaust yourself. That's when magic starts happening. Yeah. When you have that deep trust with yourself, which is really a deep trust with all your parts, that you are going to show up, that you are there for them. I remember when my therapist a few years ago told me

and she was like, I want you to start looking at people as children. And she was like, once you do, you have a lot more compassion for every person. You know there's a show about this. Have you seen the Carrie Washington show? Oh, no. Is that what it's about, though? It's called on prison.

And she basically has this inner child that keeps coming up. And not to ruin the ending, but in the ending, she realizes she hasn't been taking care of this inner child. And they have been, like, she was friends with the inner child, but she wasn't making the inner child feel safe. Right. And that was, I think, that sounds like a next time. It's really cool to like watch it in a movie.

and they show it. It's cool that they're incorporating this. Yeah, and I think that's going to be another episode, a podcast episode of like the inner child work. But I think personally, what I've noticed is like the true, the true feeling begins there because I think it's a lot of band-aids, but when you need serious surgery, you can't just keep putting band-aids on it

and expect that it's going to heal itself. And those band-aids are given to you by other people. 100%. And I think it's like, but it's interesting, right, in all our work in nervous system regulation work and dating world, a lot of people are giving a lot of band-dates. A lot of things that you just do in the moment. And I think both of us are kind of,

kind of not about that. Like, sure, I teach you techniques and tools for regulating, but we need to do this inner work of reparenting your inner child, understanding yourself, connecting with yourself and your body. Otherwise, it's all a band-aid. And 100%. You can't live that way. No.

You're not going to see the results that you're looking for. It's not going to be sustainable. And the biggest thing for me, I think we'll end on this note, was I think, showing myself compassion and explaining to the little me, like, it wasn't your fault. You didn't do anything to do. You didn't deserve this. you didn't do anything.

You were not a bad child. Because that's what my dad always used to say. You were bad kids. And for so long, I'd blame myself. And now, after doing the work and talking to little me, I had to reaffirm to her, you are beautiful as you are. And I accept you for who you are. And look at what we've built because I have you.

And that's where the self-trust started to happen. And then as you, and, you know, maybe this would be part three. But as we started to build boundaries and as you start to implement them, and as you start to prioritize yourself in a relationship, you start to trust yourself more. A hundred. I love how you said that. It's about building that relationship

with these other parts and showing these other parts that you understand them. You thank them for their service and how they've showed up for you. And now you're here and you're going to keep showing up and you're going to keep letting them feel safe

and you're going to unburden them of that role that they should have never had to take on, but they did. Which is where the guilt comes in with a lot of people, why can't I do better? It's almost like they're mad at the little them

for not understanding when it's like you have to think about it. A child is screaming. Doesn't listen to anybody, but it's parents. Everyone's coming up, shush, shush, shush. But then the parents come up and calm it. That's you. And only you can come up and calm you because the child doesn't trust anybody. Doesn't know anybody. And that guilt, and you're so right. Like I see this all the time and why people say so stuck. Honestly, the number one reason I see people staying stuck is because they struggle with compassion. They read about compassion. They intellectualize compassion. But real compassion is having

love understanding and honestly, like, respecting and, almost saying thank you and gratitude for the younger, wounded protective parts. When you could say, like, I know I don't like this behavior and I know I want to change this behavior and I will. I'm going to work on it. But right now, I could understand where this behavior is coming from. Oh, yeah. And I know how this behavior has served me and I know where it came from.

And I could just give myself a little bit of love and understanding. Yeah. Even if I'm going to actively try to change that behavior, we're not forcing that change. We're going to have acceptance, love and compassion. And once you give that to your inner child, you know what happens? They stop acting out. Like every child that you've ever known, why do kids act out? Because they want attention.

They want attention. They want love. And most of us, the way we treat our inner child is honestly the way we were treated by our parents, which is ignored, just, dismissed. Yeah. Right? And so we don't, often in sessions, people are like, my parents did this and this and this. And I'm like, I hate to break it.

You're doing the same thing to your inner child. You keep self-abandoning. You keep telling me how bad you are and all of these things. Like, it's not exactly what you're. parents you say to you? Yeah. And you're like, yeah. Exactly. How would you talk to a kid? Exactly. How would you show yourself? And like you said, we'll end on that. It's like, how do you thank yourself for, thank you for doing what you needed to do when you thought I needed you, but I got this from here. Yep. Exactly. Well, what a fucking awesome episode. What an awesome episode.

That wasn't even scripted. Thank you guys again. So, Masha, where can people find you? Yes. You guys can find me on Instagram at Masha K-M-A-S-H-A-K-A-Y. That's, It's Instagram and on TikTok. I'm at Coach Masha K. So same spelling, M-A-S-H-A-K-A-Y. You could find me there. And if you're interested in working with me, last time I offered the same thing.

So I want to share the same offer is I'm really excited to be able to offer a discount on a one-on-one introductory session. And so I think Sabrina will give you guys the link. The code is Sabrina. And for that, you will get a one-on-one session with me for only $97. Awesome. Yeah. So I will link all this in the show notes. You'll have her Instagram and her TikTok and then that that. And guys, if you need anything, either Masha or myself or here, it really depends on, you know, I think like you said, we do a lot of the same work but in different ways. So if you want to book a session with Masha, book a fucking session. If you need me, you can book a session with me one on one. Listen to next week's podcast and always know that you are here. You are supported. You are loved and you are beautiful as you are. And there's nothing broken. We're just healing. So on that note, we love you to everybody. And we'll see you next week.