The Sabrina Zohar Show - 87: Performance Anxiety and Navigating Mental Health With Victoria Garrick Browne

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Join Sabrina as she delves into a powerful conversation with Victoria Garrick Browne, a former college athlete turned mental health advocate and podcast host. Victoria shares her journey of struggling with mental health during her athletic career, including how she initially ignored her feelings and gaslit herself to push through. It wasn't until a teammate encouraged her to seek counseling that she began to understand and address her depression. They discuss the importance of authenticity and the challenges of maintaining mental health, emphasizing that it is a continuous effort. Sabrina and Victoria talk about how they have learned to navigate touchy or triggering topics with their partners in a way that leads to supportive conversations. Diving into practicality, Victoria shares advice for improving mental health that she found helpful. This includes establishing healthy boundaries and routines. Both Sabrina and Victoria highlight the significance of understanding and supporting your partner, and taking the time to help them support you. Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course HERE! Get Ad free and 2 Bonus episodes a month HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A.Z & associates LLC in any capacity Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar, and I am your host. Yay, we're here for another week. I'm so excited to have you guys back. Happy summer. We're in the midst of it all. It's getting hot as shit, but I'm so here for it as a Florida girl.

I love it. And yay, okay, babes, this week we have a special guest here. We have Victoria Garrick Brown. I'm so excited to have her. She is such an amazing, amazing woman, and she's a mental health advocacy. and I was on her podcast, The Real Pod, a couple of weeks ago or maybe about a month ago at this time. I'm just so excited. And we talk kind of like all things, mental health and her journey of being like a high-performing

athlete and the anxiety that's associated with that. You know, I think we always, we think it just comes out and dating and it manifests in that way. And like, she had her own experiences with anxiety and forming a relationship and how to communicate that with your partner and things like that. So I'm excited. I'm going to start to like mix it up a little bit and start. I want to have some guests on here where we could talk about more than just like the same four topics of like, it's a situation chip and ghosting. It's like, let's evolve and have

some fun together in the content. So I'm excited. Let me know. You could DM if you have any episodes, like ideas, if you have any guests. Like, let me know if there's ever anything. Obviously, you know, for everybody to enjoy and not just super specific. But I'm excited, guys, you know, the Sabrina Zohar show. It's new. It's here. It's fresh. And it's still the same show. We're just going to have more fun. Yay. And guys, don't forget, please, please, don't forget to rate the show. Leave a five-star review wherever you think if it's worth it. And if you don't, that's okay. Just please we ask for kind language in the way that you describe whatever your grievances are. The internet's a weird place these days.

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And I think we're going to start doing call-in. So stay tuned, babes. But for now, just the Ask Me Anything is in the bonus content and the ad-free listening on every single episode ever made from here on out and in the past. Guys, follow along on YouTube, Sabrina underscore Zohar, follow along on the Instagram, the Sabrinazohar show and Sabrina. Sohar. Pretty much obnoxiously, my name, anywhere that you can find me on TikTok, Instagram, or YouTube. And thank you guys again for everything. If you need the course that's available.

It's out next week. We have a very special course coming out with Britt Frank. And I'm so so excited by the time you guys listen to this or the next week. So it'll be out and moving on. but it's a breakup course and it's here to help but for now we have the foundation course it's here if you need it none of these have to be bought together they can all be enjoyed separately or together whatever you guys need we're trying to support you guys where you're at and do whatever we can to meet you where you are so that you guys invest in yourselves as well and have something that

you can tangibly come back to and utilize and that actually works you know based on neuroscience and all that fun shit so guys again thank you thank you for everything love you to the moon and back and without further ado let's get right on into it shall we Hello, Victoria. Welcome to the Sabrina Zohar show. I am so excited to have you. I'm so excited to be here. We just hit it off when you came on RealPod. I couldn't wait for our part two. I just love talking to you. Me too. And I'm so excited because on RealPod, so if anybody's listening has not listened, you need to go listen. We talked a lot about the dating and the courtship and stuff. And now we get to talk about you, which is what I'm excited about. And not just to hear more about you, but also like the journey that you went through and the experience that you've had because I don't know about you, girl, but like I've learned. having this podcast, like that's, I think, truly what helps us kind of heal and come together is understanding that we're not alone and that other people have gone through experiences. So I'm so excited. But for anybody who doesn't know who you are or anything, could you

please just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you and your own words? First of all, it's an honor to be here. I am so excited to be on your show. So thanks for having me. And I feel like the reason I love it so much is it's so important for people to be working on themselves and trying to grow and develop and develop more self-awareness and just become like our highest potential functioning type of human being. And we don't see enough of that. It's like there's a lot of humor out there and there's a lot of like they call it brain rot these days. And it's fun and there's a time and place for it. Like don't get me wrong. I love watching Love Island because that's just what I need sometimes. But also I think it's important like if we're

going to be consuming content, can we consume content that's actually going to make. an impact on our lives and who we are in our relationships. So I love what you do. And a little bit about me for anyone who's not familiar with my work or what I do. So my name is Victoria and I am, oh my gosh, I'm a full-time content creator. I have my own podcast called RealPod. I'm a former college athlete. I'm a founder of a nonprofit, the hidden opponent. And I'd say how I got started in this business and with the work I do now was because I was an athlete my whole life and I played Division one volleyball at USC, so fight on if there's any Trojans out there. And while it was an incredible experience and I wouldn't change it for the world, it was also really intense. And it was a high

pressure environment and there was a lot on my shoulders. And it was difficult for me. And it was, you know, the first time in my life and the hardest time in my life that I struggled with my own mental health. And that manifested in performance, anxiety, depression. I struggled with an disorder and it wasn't going through that that my eyes were open to this issue amongst athletes everywhere that wasn't really talked about because athletes are looked at as, you know, these strong competitors, don't show weakness, don't cry, push, you know, keep going. We have the Olympics coming up, right? You're looking at a type of person who was just never taught to accept that they could struggle or they could show any weakness. So, you know, once I realized

that there was this big issue and I was actually now in my life, someone who was suffering in the middle of that, it's what really led me to want to speak up about what I had gone through, about my own story. And I honestly was just at a place where I kind of was so depressed. I was like nothing matters right now other than like being seen. And I never thought I'm going to build this brand. I'm going to keep speaking. I'm going to found this nonprofit. I literally was just at a place in my life where everything seemed so meaningless except talking about the big, scary, dark questions in life. And I started by giving a TEDx talk at school. And, you know, one thing led to another snowball effect. And, you know, I'm so grateful to be here. It was like sort of following my heart and

my passion. And since then, I've been able to evolve it into a variety of different things. And I'd say the premise of everything is realness and authenticity. You know, the TEDx talk was really vulnerable. It was the most vulnerable thing I'd ever done in my life up until that point. And I carried that with me on social media. I said, I'm not going to Photoshop use FaceTune. I'm not going to filter. I don't even swipe right for Paris. So if you're on my accounts, you're not even going to see the Paris filter because that is how Adam and I am about trying to portray authenticity and realness online. And so my podcast, RealPod, is all about that and interviewing people and hearing about their real stories and their real struggles. Oh, dude, I'm so excited to have you on because you're a breath of fresh air.

Like, this is what we need. It's so funny, did you see the new documentary sprint? No. What is it? It's on Netflix. So it's about these, it's about, I think like the sprinters. Okay, let me preface for anybody listening. I apologize in advance for the way I talk about sports and athletes and athleticism. I am a turd if you put me out on the street. Like, I am not, I am not somebody that should ever be active except for like lifting a weight and putting it back down. So I'm going to apologize in advance for all of the botching that's going to happen with the way I talk about being an athlete. But it's the, they were the pre-qualifiers, like the world, the champions before the Olympics. So it followed the journey of like, I think five or ten of these Olympic sprinters that are about to go and advance into the Olympics.

Oh my gosh, I need to watch this. Oh, you're going to. It was so interesting because especially for me, like not having a connection to the world of sports. But what I loved about it was not, oh, yeah, look how fast everybody. is. Look how amazing they are. It's like, cool, that was, that was nice to have. What I loved was the emphasis that they put on their mental health to see, like one of these girls who, you know, we look at it as like, like, like, these athletes are put on this pedestal, like, oh, you know, Kobe's of the world and the LeBron's, like, oh, these people are like gods and they don't feel.

But what we also don't see is like the ridicule, the backlash, the trolling, like the negativity that they get on top of being an athlete, I would imagine as a child, you have a lot of pressure around you of like performing and doing well and that's where that perfectionism and like working hard goes. And it was actually really lovely to see them be humans and to say like, yeah, this really hurts me. And when someone says this, I feel this because I just don't think it's like normalized enough. And I was curious like when did you know because obviously you're young, right? You're in college. So all of this is new.

When did you know like, hey, I think there's something going on like something isn't right? Or like was that like what was your journey to realizing like fuck I think I need to do something about my mental health. Well, when you don't pay attention to the mental health conversation because you think you're invincible, I mean, I definitely was like, oh, I am a high performer. I'm a perfectionist. I'm a leader. I'm just like, I'm that girl. So why would I listen at assembly in high school when they're talking about social anxiety or depression? Because I didn't associate with that being something I could be because of the stigma of mental health, which says this is weakness. You know, this isn't.

something you want to have. So as someone who's wanting to be, quote, successful, whatever that means, I didn't even want to entertain the fact that I could be in that sort of position. I was looking at it completely wrong. And so, you know, I say that all to say it was really hard for me to detect. I wasn't like, oh, this is performance anxiety. Like I can't sleep at night. My hands are shaking and I'm on the verge of tears before playing a game on a team I've always dreamed of playing on and I don't want to do it. You know, I told myself, oh my gosh, you maybe aren't good enough to be on this team. If you tell anyone you feel this way, they're not going to trust you. Your coach isn't going to play you.

Like, I just gaslit the shit out of myself. And I would pull any sports quote, any motivational video to tell myself, like, bury it, suppress it, like toughen up, get out there. Like, this is what you have to push through. If you can ignore this, if you cannot let this get you, then that's what it takes to be great. That's what I had thought. So it was hard for me to detect at first. Eventually, I had struggled with that kind of back and forth and that performance anxiety throughout my freshman season and summer that when I came back for my second year of college, I was just depressed. I was so low. I was numb. I just kind of had so much feeling in jitteriness and high functioning anxiety that now I was just like, I don't feel a thing. And in that state, I was just, not myself, not social, not wanting to go anywhere. It was spring break. My friends went to

Cabo. I went home to my parents' couch to cry and sleep. Like, I just wasn't myself. And in that state, you know, it was like opening up to a teammate and she said she saw a counselor. And I was like, okay, like I guess if you go, I can go. And then that was hard, you know, walking into the therapy lounge waiting room and checking your, on a skill of one to five, have you had this, this, that. And it's like, oh my God, I'm hovering over my body. Like, I am that person in a movie who's lost it, you know, because of the stigma of mental health. That's what I was telling myself. So it was gradual. It was just this gradual breaking down of my spirit and my joy and just the nature of who I was as a person, which led me to then seek help. And then I do feel inclined

to add this part because I've been kind of really vocal about the. anti-stigma for mental health. But in going to therapy, I of course learned that it is harder and it takes more strength to own up to something you're struggling with, to talk about that with another person, to have the courage to want to work on that and be different. My mindset totally did a 180 and I thought, oh my gosh, working on your mental health, talking about this, fighting for this is actually the strongest, bravest, most admirable thing a person can do. So that's what then kind of gave me the fire to go and advocate for mental health issues. Oh, God, I fucking love that.

And I think what I love about your story as well is like anybody listening, it doesn't mean that you have to be in college, working, you know, being an athlete to feel what you're feeling. I think, I mean, if we even look back at the last 10 years, mental health has become so normalized in the best way possible. But like anything, the pendulum swings, right? We have all of this amazing conversation around. Like even my mom, she's like, oh, my God, I would have killed to have anybody tell me what a narcissist was when I was married to your father. She's like, no one spoke about this, which with also comes like the pendulum swings, right? It's like with the good also comes the, oh, we've overused it.

But nonetheless, so fucking excited that people are talking about it and seeing this. And now, is this something that like while you were going through this, were you ever, like, did you ever talk to your family members about this? Like, how did that impact? because we'll get to Max and your relationship in a minute, but really just for you and your family, like how were you able to get through this? Did you have that as a support system?

Or were you really just like struggling internally alone? I definitely had my parents as a support system. I love them so much and they were always there for me and I'm so grateful for that and for the relationship I still have with them today. I do think it was just hard for them to really understand because, you know, as a parent, they're like, wait, you know, you're playing division one volleyball.

Like this is everything you've ever wanted. Like we've watched you work hard at sports since you could first walk, right? You know, so I think for them, they were just confused. Like on paper, this is everything you ever wanted. And it was. But, you know, once you are at quote cloud nine, like it takes, it takes a lot to stay there and to maintain that. And so, you know, of course I was open with them.

I don't think they, they knew what. what they could based on just like when they would see me. And my mom has memories of I came to visit you and you were just, you know, you broke down crying and then you just were sleeping the whole weekend and we didn't do anything. We had plans to do. Like my mom, I remember, would look at me on this one trip and it was like I was pale and I had, I was breaking out just because I was so depressed and stressed. And she was just like, I remember she said something like, I'm going to walk into the coach's room right now and you're off the team. You are coming home. And I was like, no, you can't i need to stay you know so so they they did the best they could but you know they didn't i was away

it's college it's something else here now something new from exclusively on paramount plus it's the series stephen king calls scary as hell everything here is impossible but it's also real sci-fi vision calls it the best show streaming right now we're running out of time and we still don't know the rules Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From Binge All Episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. This might be a loaded question, but I am curious. After, because right, hindsight, so 20-20,

after, like, once you started to really, like, understand your mental health and involved, was it, one, did you lose the passion and love you had for volleyball? And then second of all, did you ever even have the passion and love, or do you think it was fueled by something else? Like, I'm just curious to hear that experience on your end. It's a great question. I totally had the passion and love. Like, I love sports and specifically volleyball so, so much.

What I think it was was I was an 18-year-old who didn't have the coping skills, the tools in place, the vocabulary, the awareness to recognize when I was struggling and what I needed on the other side of that. I always think and joke now, put me in. I would love to go back into my 18 year old self, play on that team, like in that environment. Like, and I know I could do it because I know how to protect my mental health. I know how to do my mindset exercises. I know how to catch myself when I'm spiraling and creating a story that doesn't actually exist.

Like I've learned so much that, you know, now I could do it. But you're just young. You're a kid. You don't have the tools. You don't know. And unless you literally have. have people grabbing your shoulders and saying, it's okay not to be okay. And if you're not okay, here's what we can do to help you. Like, it's very hard to connect those dots. So I think it was just,

I was constantly playing catch up. But I will say, I learned so much. I had an awakening. I had an experience that while it was really difficult for me led me to be here today. I think when we're in those times in life where we're struggling and we don't understand and we're really suffering, we're also awakening at the same time. So I would never want to be. want to go back and have everything be picture perfect and have someone grab me my freshman year and say, hear all the answers to your problems because that's not life and that's not how we get better and we grow. So even now when I'm in tough situations in life and I'm struggling with my mental health or I'm feeling funky, I'm like, okay, we're on the brink of change or growth or

transformation. I love that. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I think it's so refreshing to have. Like I try to spin it of like these bad moments. Like hindsight is so 20-20. Like you said, that famous saying, like, youth is wasted on the young. If I, oh my goodness, if I could go back to 20 year old me and be like, bitch, sit down. Let's have a talk. Like, I wish. I wish more than anything that I could like recapture a little bit of that time and like maybe. But to your point, that situation, like all, we are a sum of all of our parts, right?

And so like wherever we're at now, it's a cumulative effect of all the things that have happened prior to create this version of us. And kind of similar to your story, like it's the same thing when I got by now, everybody knows about it on the show. like when I got that fucking cease and desist. In that moment, your life crumbles. Like, talk about a tiger. Like, I thought everything was over. But then I knew in that pain and in those moments, wait a minute, in the past, like, I literally have to stop myself and be like, in the past, when you've had really bad things happen

to you, like when your ex is broken up with you, when you've been left on the floor, when my dog died, when my company was sent home from Shark Tank, when all of those, quote, unquote, like, terrible bad things happened, we kind of see this as like, that's it, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. We kind of lose hope and oh my God, what else can I take? And for me, it's taken a practice, kind of cue to what you said earlier, but like it's taken a practice to now see it as, wait a minute, how can I level up? Right? Like that window of tolerance to me, I'm like, great, we're making it larger because if I can handle getting a really scary letter from a lawyer that's threatening my business and make it through, figure it out, come out the other side,

wow, look at the confidence that we've just built within ourselves and look at the story that we get to add to kind of like our cloth. Right. One of my favorite, I love that so much, one of my favorite quotes from a book I read called A New Earth by Eckart Tolle, which I feel like your community and you would just, yep, like eat up and love so much. I'm literally so obsessed with that book. I did a book club podcast on it called So Much to Say with my best friend. But one of my favorite parts was he said something to the effect of how do you know this is the experience. This is the experience you're supposed to be having because it's the one you're having at this moment. Basically just like whatever's happening in your life is what you're supposed to be experiencing.

And who knows? Like, you know, you could look back and this could be actually the best thing that happened to your business that opened up the name and there's no limit and now it's based on you. And who knows? Like, you know, so I just think we have to believe that we can get something from everything. I don't believe that everything happens for a reason, but I do believe you get something from everything. I'm glad you made that clarification because I'm with you. When people have like, oh, it all happens for a reason, you're like, sometimes there really isn't, right? Like, sometimes

there really isn't a reason that like that person has a shitty fucking life and lives in poverty while other people are born with a silver spoon. But what we can look at it is like, it's such an empowering way to look at this as like, okay, what's next? Right? Like, what else you got for me? I'm not asking for more. Don't get me wrong, universe. Like, we're good. But like my one friend always says, just like, let it burn. Like, it's okay. Don't be so scared to hold on to something because when we let it burn, like you said, look at the life that you've created when you let the life that you thought you were going to have burned down. And that's the same with breakups with dealing with heartbreak. Like how many, I mean, I know, which I want to talk about

Max, you know, for a lot of people listening, we've dealt with heartbreak after heartbreak or disappointment after disappointment. And after a while, you just start to wonder, like, when the fuck is this going to like let up? Have you heard the prophecy by Taylor Swift? I feel like It's off of, it's okay for not a Swifty. It's off the new album Torture Poets Department. It's called Prophecy. And it's literally a song about like when you just keep getting fucked over by men. And you're like, who do I have to speak to to to change the prophecy to write in that I will meet my soulmate?

Because I'm like literally she's like, I'm begging you. I'm on my knees. Who do I speak to? So I just made me think of that song. I'm a Swifty. Which is, and not to mention too. Like, well, and look at her to be the perfect example. It's like she went through shitty.

situation and it's like, and look who she landed. I'm like, you know what? It would all be worth it to have what she has. And it's like, we have to look at it. Otherwise, it's like, listen, you don't have to look at it that way. You could fucking drive yourself insane and just go into a spiral if you want. But we also get to choose the way that we see things. We get to choose what side of the coin that we're going to be accepting. And so to me, and I was curious, actually, because you mentioned earlier your mindset, you said, I do my mindset exercises or activities. Can you share a little bit more of like, what have, I love to learn what people have learned along the way that's helped them. Like, what are tools that you implement that you actually find have been beneficial?

I guess, first I'll start conceptually. I think what can be really game changing for people is just recognizing that the thoughts in your mind are telling you a story. And it's a story based on the things you've perceived in your life that you've been told and also a lot of your insecurities. For example, you know, if you're telling yourself, oh my God, and I'll make a relationship based because I know that's a big theme on this pod. You know, if it's, oh my gosh, I ruin every relationship. I'm way too vulnerable at the start. No one's ever going to love me. I'm not meant to

be with someone. Maybe I'm meant to be alone. Like you're spinning a story that's that you're actually taking us fact, which is always shocking. Like we were like, that's the truth. And then if I'm spinning that story, of course I'm going to be down. I'm going to go on that next date and I'm not going to feel confident. I'm going to feel really pessimistic. And then I'm to look for one thing that's going to ruin the date and say, yep, I knew it, I knew it. This is always how it goes for me. This is nothing factually has happened other than you've created this story. And someone might be thinking, no, but the other dates didn't work out. So I'm basing it on evidence. But you're creating a lot of judgment and you're adding color to facts. What are the

facts? I'm not marrying these people I've been on dates with. There could be a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with who you are as to why those didn't work out. So don't fill in the blanks. When it comes to anxiety, you're always filling the blinks in. Oh, this must have happened because of this. Don't fill in the blanks. Don't make assumptions. You don't know. So instead, can we spend a different story? Those didn't work out for, like if you're going to tell one, tell a good one. Those didn't work out for a reason. I'm destined for something better. I'm still growing and evolving and it's all going to work out. And I know that if I keep following my heart and I listen to myself and I show up and I and I give it my all that it is going to work out.

You know, and someone might be thinking, oh, that's exhausting. I've tried that. I don't want to do that anymore. Okay. Then let's stop telling stories. Let's just wake up. Let's take 10 deep breaths. Let's journal five things we're grateful for.

And let's try to meet every moment where it is and not have any expectations. So that's like high level. Like just a lot of work I've done to kind of think about my thought process and and how do adjust it. And then as far as like tangible things, you know, I do think, you know, a few things I could list off if you're wanting to improve your mental health this week. Don't bring your phone in your bedroom. Charge it in your office. Charge it in your kitchen. Do not bring your phone in your bedroom. You know, after six o'clock at night, can we stop scrolling social media? If you want to watch a show, that's fine. If you want to FaceTime a friend, that's fine. Why are we spending three

hours every night consuming the very best parts of other people's lives and then turning our phone off in and feeling like absolute shit. Like, don't bring your phone in your bedroom. Another thing is, you know, the morning, it really, like, sets the tone for your day. And this morning, every other Thursday, I go to therapy. But before therapy, I go to a workout class. So it's like I wake up to my alarm and I don't check social media and I don't check emails. So I'm already deciding, like, I'm going to be present.

I'm going to be in this moment. I don't need to know what's going on in the world or who needs me. We can deal with that at 9 o'clock. you know, so I'm going to wake up, take a deep breath. I'm going to have my breakfast or my AG1, which I love. I'm going to get in the car. I'm going to listen to music or a meditation. I'm going to do my workout.

I'm going to shower. I'm going to go to therapy and talk about myself and what I need. And then I'm going to come home and open my computer and, you know, do the things I need to do. And if you're a mom or you have kids or you start work earlier, you know, there are ways that you can have maybe it's five minutes, even to give yourself five minutes when you wake up in the morning instead of just springing out a bed? Can you lay there and take five deep breaths and give yourself affirmations? Like, I'm doing my best. I deserve joy and happiness. I'm going to listen to my intuition. Can you take five minutes to give yourself a moment before you start? So, you know, really seeing like what is it that I need in

my life? What kind of life do I want to have? What's prohibiting me from having that? And what are the changes I can make? I love that because what you're doing is you're empowering yourself to make choice, right? Like you're saying, I get to choose how many times I've woken up in the morning and like, you'll get a shitty email or something or a text or something that totally sets you up. But then by the end of the day, it's a great day or vice versa, right? Because that's the beauty of in these moments life can change. And one thing that I want to highlight that what you'd said was like, it's okay. Like I think this is part, this is a huge part, at least for my growth that was really massive for me, was being able to hold two conflicting truths, right? Like, so if you're

going out there and you're saying like when I was dating or even like in my career now, like, I was up for a TV show. I was supposed to be doing something for too hot to handle. And I was like losing my mind. I was so excited. And then I didn't get it. And I remember just being like, okay, I like something better is coming.

Right. And it's like that's the cognitive. Oh, somebody breaks up with you. And it's like, that's the one side of the coin. The other side that we need to also normalize. And I'm hoping that we can is that you can also feel upset. It didn't work out. You're allowed.

I think that's that misconception of like, oh, just it's fine. there's better for me, like that toxic positivity that you see it all the fucking time like I do. Well, you're not viking high enough. And it's like, how about we stop shaming people? And instead, we're like, hey, you really want, like when I really wanted that fucking show, I went in there, guns blazing. I did my Joe Dispenza meditation. I was seeing it.

It's the same. Anytime. And like it didn't work out. You're allowed to be bummed that the guy that you were dating or the girl or the person that them that you were with did not work out. It's okay to feel bummed. It's okay to say, man, that really sucks. But I can also still hold the other conflicting truth that that's okay, that just wasn't for me.

There's better out there for me because I believe in my gut I am actually fucking worth it and deserving of it as opposed to, well, there we go. That proves. All it does when we say I knew it is that proved my core belief that you're right. I wasn't deserving of that. Yeah, no, 100%. And I'm definitely not a fan of not feeling our emotions or toxic positivity. like if you are sad, be sad. I do think, though, if you're sad on day eight, nine, 10, like, okay, what is it helping at this point? It helps in the beginning. You got to feel, you got to let,

you got to let your emotions rise, you got to let them come out because they will find a way out, whether it is tomorrow or six years from now or not in a great way. So feel your feelings, be sad. Don't try to fix it. And then when you're ready, can we step into more of a power stance on like, okay, what's my way up from here? 100%. It's like when people say, oh, I'm so hung up on this guy or this girl and, oh, we broke up like a year ago and I can't get over them and I cry all the time. And I'm like, what's the narrative you're telling yourself about this person?

Because you're not making them real. You're creating that like them not choosing me means I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. And we're so hung up. It's like, listen, you can be sad that a relationship ends. But I can also be like, cool, but it's, that's just not my person. and like I'm not going to hold on to somebody that doesn't want me, versus, which brings me kind of into Mrs. Married over here, right?

So you are married, you've been married for a minute, but I'd love to hear, okay, so you've been through this entire journey, similar, I can totally relate, but you also formed a relationship at that time. Like, what was that like meeting Max and having him in your life? I would love to hear, like, what was that early stage for you? Because if I'm not wrong, you friend zoned him. But really like what was that, she says as she blushes, what was that trajectory like while you were going through your mental health stuff and then letting somebody in? Because we have that fallacy of I have to be healed in order to be in a relationship, which is such bullshit. But I'd love to hear your journey of it. Ooh, I have a good story about that. So remind me about the Prince Charming. We'll call it the Prince Charming effect. That's not real. So I met Max my very first weekend at USC. I was a freshman.

He, I always joke that I don't even know what grade he was because he was like, he came a year. He graduated high school early to play in the football team. Then he redshirted. Then he transferred. I mean, who knows. But I think he was two grade years older than me. But yeah, we met. And I always thought he was funny.

I thought he was really cute. I thought he was a great time. Like I loved being around him. And like if I went to a party and he was there, like, you know, I always wanted to be around him. I thought he was great energy. But I had a toxic, shitty high school relationship that had ended. so I really wanted my funds freshman year at USC. Like I wanted to meet boys.

I wanted to develop my little roster that the girls were telling me. Yeah, I get a roster. You have like five, six, seven. You could text it one time. I was like, a roster. What is that? You know, it was like so exciting. Like accumulating all my little Sims.

And then I, so I just, you know, I did friends on him. He definitely was like, would have wanted to date me way sooner. And then it wasn't until like a year. later that summer that, I mean, how much of the story do you want? I mean, I want this. But question, did he know that you, did you know, I apologize, did you know that he wanted to date you or you were oblivious for the whole time, not knowing? No, I knew. Like, I mean, come on. When you walk in somewhere and they run right up to you, what do you want? Can I get you something? Oh, they text you. It was so great to see you. Like, they do everything they're supposed to do. But it's almost like, no, it's too good. Like,

I was in a place where you want like the guy that treats you like shit and doesn't. You don't know if they like you or not, right? Like Max was always husband material. So I just, it was just too, it was too perfect and I wanted, I didn't want that yet. I wanted my heartbroken by some other boys, which, why, why? But we need that. We need that to then be ready to receive the true love and the healthy relationship. So long story short, you know, a year later, I realized lights go off.

Oh my gosh. Max Brown. Like, he's amazing. have I been doing? Oh my God. What if he doesn't like me anymore? So then I kind of had to like pursue him and like flirt and get him to know like, hey, I'm interested again. Because I don't think he would have like asked me out because I had kind of, yeah, rejected him a few times. So I kind of initiated that new hangout a year later. And then it was like from that moment on we kissed that night. And it was just the whole butterflies, fireworks, everything. And then we've been together ever since that night. And it's been, um, eight years. So, uh, as far as it goes with my mental health, I would say, like, Max was this amazing outlet in the beginning. Like, I almost used to say to him, I don't think you understand how depressed I am because when I'm with you, it's like the only time I'm not. So he was like my outlet to feeling better and feeling happy. And I remember one time I visited him at Pittsburgh when he had transferred schools.

And we were having dinner. And I just like started crying. And I was like, I'm like really depressed. And it's weird because like I want I want you to know that. also when I'm with you, I don't want to feel that way. So I'm like trying to be happy and be with you. But I think what what he saw a lot more of was probably my body image and food insecurities, especially I had a binge eating disorder, which is where you restrict heavily and then you binge everything back and you just do that yo-yo cycle. And I remember when I like finally had to open up to him about that just because we were

getting closer and it felt like that was something that I wanted him to know. And I remember we were like laying in the dark, you know, that made me feel a little safer at night. Like no eye contact. Can't see my facial expression. Just kind of cuddling and me kind of saying like, I don't even remember. But like I struggle with food and like I feel really insecure sometimes and just kind of like opening up because I remember times we'd be on dates. And one time we were sharing like a little pint of Ben and Jerry's from the gas station and we're watching a movie. And all. And all. all I'm thinking about is like I wish he would leave so I could just devour the whole pint. You know, it's like, I can't eat too much because I want to be cute and like,

so I'm going to have a little little spoonful. Oh, I'm full. I'm full from dinner. No, I'm not. I would eat six of these, boy, if you weren't here. So I'm like, you know, there were moments like that where I felt like he wasn't privy to me and I wanted to get close. So when I opened up to him, he's so supportive, you know, he doesn't, he didn't really understand. He's a guy who never had body image issues or felt the body image. pressure, a lot of women do. But he was really supportive. I would say like that has been, if I think about a way that our relationship has grown in all the time we've been together, it's been the way that Max has learned to show up for me in the way that I need it.

I used to have a time in life where I would think he's not my first phone call when I'm struggling. I don't even know if he's my second or my third because it's like, how is someone going to beat my mom, my two best friends, like, and he's a guy. But I didn't like that. I'm like, you're my partner in life. Like I want you to be the person I call and we had to kind of go through. Like, why is it this way? And of course it's like, you know, he wants to fix. Guys want to fix. They're like, oh, she's being mean. Well, then do X, Y, Z. And I'm like, no, just agree and tell me she's mean. Like, you know, I want you to just validate. So I had to learn to communicate, hey, I just want you to listen and I want you to validate. And he had to know when it was time to offer advice and guidance

and when it was time to just listen. And we've made so many great improvements in that department. Of course, there's a million ways I've grown in change to be better for him. But we're focusing on me today. But he, yeah, recently I had been struggling with body image again with, you know, the rise of OZempick and all the weight loss drugs. It's, it is difficult. It is difficult that there now is a quote magic injection that will make you lose all this weight. That's very hard for the eating disorder girlies. So, you know, I was struggling and just feeling more insecure and I opened up to him and I felt like he just showed up perfectly and it was beautiful and I felt so close to him. And I talk about that on an episode of Real Pod called I've been struggling where I just kind of

go over like that conversation and it was really just, I felt like I had no, he didn't judge me at all. He just listened. He really did nothing. And that's exactly what I needed. But you know what? You said one thing that I've held on to that it was perfectly said. And it's exactly what I want people to fucking hear. He learned how to support me in the ways that I need. Learned is the key fucking word here. Because I think we have this massive, and I'm so glad you share the story because there's such a common misconception like, oh, well, I, like I had a, I don't know if you're familiar with Julian Menino. And she, her insta, is the secure relationship. I think it's a secure partnership or the secure relationship.

And we were talking about it. And she was like, I said, what is something that really annoys you about what you see with all the content? And she was like this villainizing of the avoidant and how the da-da. And she was like that, you know, we need to learn how to love each other. And I was like, that has been something that I'm so passionate about for people to get. It's like, you didn't meet Max where everything he did was perfect.

I didn't meet Ryan, tech guy, as everyone knows him, as like, oh, he came out the gate and everything was amazing. It's like, no, no, no, no. But cumulity over time, like, how did you get closer? You were vulnerable. You saw how he showed up for you. It was a safe space for you to also say, hey, here's how I'd love you to show up for me further. And then when he does it, like, one thing I've learned with Ryan as well is like when the

cease and desist thing happened, he let me crumble and he just sat next to me. And like the way he supported me, like you said, wasn't anything spectacular. It's not like, oh, he did the X, Y, and Z. He wanted to fix. Of course. The first thing that comes in is, like, let me make my partner better. And he realized not to. And after the next morning, I came down to him and I said, can I share something with you? And he was like, what's up? And I said, last night was perfect.

I said, how you supported me was exactly what I need. That's exactly how I need you to show up for me. And I said, did that feel sustainable for you? He was like, yeah, that was totally great for me. And I was like, perfect. Now he shows up for me in those ways because we've told them, hey, here's what I need from you. And then they do it. To me, because like, did Max, did you ever see, like, is he somebody who's just more of a secure attachment or does he have anxiety, avoidance? Like, yeah. He's so securely attached. I actually was going to chime in by saying here's one thing, big thing I've had to work on because

I think it's important. You know, I do think there's a lot of people who are like, okay, here are my boundaries and my needs and I've learned all this stuff and I need people to be picture perfect for me. And it's like, no, no, no. Like you have to change and you have to work on yourself. So, you know, he was very securely attached. And like I said, I had a toxic relationship in high school. So I was like, oh my gosh, we need to send these long, long text messages.

You know, we're going to get in these stupid fights. And then we're going to make up. And like, we're going to have, that's what it's going to be. And he was like, what are you talking about? Like, I hurt your feelings? I'm so sorry. You know, and I was like, what? Like, I was almost like, that's not fun.

I want to fight with you. So I had to learn, you know, Max is not responsible for regulating my emotions. If I have a bad day or I get in a fight with someone or, you know, something doesn't go my way at work. Like I can't come. And then I come home. This is what would happen. This probably happens with people. You have a shitty day for whatever reason.

Your partner comes home and they're like, hey. And you're like, hi. And they're like, I'm just going to make dinner. Do you want anything? And you're like, no. And then they like make dinner. And then they sit down. And then you're like, I can't believe you like didn't like, of course I want to eat.

Like you didn't make me anything. Whatever. You start a fight now. this person has objectively done nothing wrong, but you're already feeling sad. You're already feeling down that what you're doing, and we saw this on a love is blind, is you're picking a fight to then get someone to validate you and be like, no, I care about you, of course. Like, what you're trying to do is get to this end zone of like them telling you, like, how much they like you and that they need you.

And I think now in a mature relationship, you know, and having done a lot of work, I would say to Max, like, hi, like, just didn't have the best day. Like, if I'm feeling cranky or not talkative, it doesn't have anything to do with you. I'm just, I'm not in a good place. Yeah. Perfect. And then as a good partner, he'll probably say, okay, well, baby, I'm here for you and I love you and you're amazing and give me a kiss.

And there's the love I needed anyways. And we avoided a whole fight. I've, and it's so funny you say that. I've had to tell Ryan before, like, we'll have something. and I literally, I remember it because he's very pragmatic and practical. And so he needs to understand it. And I remember the one way I got to him was we had, it was something very minute like that. We're like, I said something that hurt me.

And I was like, just fucking validate it. Like, that's all I'm at. I'm just want to, I just need to vent for a second and tell you that this troll in the internet hurt my goddamn feelings. And after like 45 minutes of like, because he got, it was like something happened. He got defensive. And it was like, and I finally stopped him. And I said, if you said what you just said to me now, 45 minutes ago, we would have saved 40 minutes. And he stopped.

And he was like, whoa, that it just clicked for him. And he was like, I see what you mean now. And I was like, it's not, I don't need to be right. It's not about I'm sorry or you're right. It's not about saying that. It's sometimes just we cannot, we can't fucking read people's minds. But it's also about like, I ask for what it is that I like, hey, I'm really struggling right now. Can I share this with you?

I just need to vent. Great. I'm telling somebody a roadmap of like, cool, just sit your fucking ass down and let me talk. But I agree with you. So often we see we're like, because it's what you're describing is like, protest behavior of like I feel a connection I need that connection I need someone to validate and when we don't so we start to do protest behavior having the temper tantrums having the no fine shutting down dismissive getting cold stonewalling whatever yes anxious people do that as well and I love that what you

described was such a healthy and secure partnership and let you earned you work towards earned security you didn't just come out the fucking womb like that it can be worked towards but like you said you have to do the no pun intended you got to do the work in order to get there yeah And I think, too, something people need to talk more about is reasonable needs because there will also be people who are like, no, I need a text every day. I need a FaceTime every night. I need every night for us to spend an hour together. That's not a reasonable need. That is not like a reasonable request for someone.

So I also like think it's important to remind people too. You can't just say, well, I need this and then it's period end of sentence. Like it's okay if your partner does check yourself and say, is this reasonable? like this is an expectation I, like I'm not able to meet. Like, I'm showing you, I love you in all these other ways. You know, we need to meet in the middle. Oh, I mean, you know me. I'm like, that's the hill I'll die on of no, no, no, no.

It's not a need. Like, or, you know, Masha and I talk about this all the time of like boundaries being used incorrectly of like, well, my boundary is that he's not allowed to follow any women on social media. And if he does, and I'm going to, and it's like, that's not a boundary. That's an ultimatum and that's control. That means that you're insecure and you're telling your partner what they can and can't do. Somebody actually asked me. I'd like to get to a couple of insta questions that people asked.

Someone asked me, what was your favorite boundary that you set? And I was like, interesting. Okay, I'm curious to ask. Yeah, that's a cute one. I would say the most obvious one that comes to mind is the boundary I have around food, which is basically that, you know, I've communicated with Max in order for me to feel safe, having a healthy relationship with food in this relationship and around you, which is most of the time, I need to know that you're not going to judge me or make comments about what I eat. Even if we have a big dinner and I go back to the snack cabinet six times, even if I, you know, whatever it is, I just need to know that you're not going to judge me or make comments because that is like a big trigger for me. And so he said, perfect, great. And he

doesn't make those comments. And sometimes I will start to get in my head like, oh my God, Max probably is thinking I'm eating a lot tonight or whatever. And so then I'll say to him, I won't just let this balloon build until it exposed. I'll say, babe, this is really weird, but I don't know why I'm just super in my head that like you're looking at what I'm eating and you're thinking about it. I know you haven't been. You've done nothing wrong. I'm just letting you know that that like anxious voice is rising. And he's like, oh my God, that's so funny. Like no, of course, like I haven't thought a thing. And we reaffirm the boundary. And I think it's important too to acknowledge like, because you could be having thoughts of like, oh, do I trust my partner? Am I worried about this?

But when you bring it to them, you know, preface it with, hey, you've done nothing wrong. this is my own insecurity and anxious voice. I'm just communicating it because I want us to be able to openly share our feelings. But how weird is it that when you went out the other night, I was nervous and jealous and you can have like a team talk, you know? One thing I want to say about your thing about following girls. I would just say like I agree like making rules is we're not babysitting each other. But if you're dating someone who wants to follow 50 bikini models, is that the man's for you? It's not the man's for me.

Like, you know, so it just, I agree. Like, I'm like, you can't make rules. And then if the people are like, oh, but then he's doing it. I'm like, is that the guy you want to raise your kids? Like, 100%. That's, well, you're giving yourself a choice, right? It's like, it's not about you have to change otherwise. It's like, no, no, but you also get to choose that this doesn't work for me.

Like, it's the same is like when I date like guys that worked at nightlife. I'm like, I don't drink and I don't go out past eight o'clock. It's not that I need you to change. It's not like, oh, well, you're no longer allowed to do that. It's like, no, this isn't a connection for me that I want to pursue because, yeah, I don't want to date the guy that's going to a strip club at two in the morning with his friends when I'm potentially home with kids. Like, that would not work for me. And so I'm with you on all of that. And I think even the boundary that you set.

And I think what I want people to also really learn from this is like, it is so hot and sexy to share with your partner things that upset you. And especially like, I'll do that with Ryan. Like he said something once he just went. I asked him to do something. I said, like, do you want to go do this tomorrow night? You just went now. and walked off. And it's like, okay, there's nothing wrong with that, right? And that's a trigger, right? A trigger is a neutral action or inaction that like, to you, if someone just went no and you're like, okay, and you just go back to work for me, all of a sudden I got wildly disregulated. I started going in my head and I was like, see, he doesn't like you don't want to be with you. And I even stopped and I was like, can I share something with you babe? And he was like, yeah, what's up? And I said, you did not do anything wrong here. Like you probably was like, you didn't do anything wrong. I said, but when you said that, fuck, it made me feel really disregulated. Then when I started to kind of assess, I realized like, that reminds to me with my dad. My dad was super dismissive and go and walk off. And I was like, and it's not that

you did anything wrong. I said, but moving forward, next time, could you just let me not interested? Then I'll know, it's just not something that you want to do. And he was like, absolutely, thank you for telling me. He's like, I would have no idea that bothered you if you didn't tell me. And I think so often we're in that mindset of like, I'm a child. I can't express my needs. If I tell them, then they're going to shun me. And it's like, you're not dating your parents. It's really sexy to tell a partner what's going on. And I used to think everything needs to be solved now. I was a big sense of urgency, big fix, fix, fix, big want everything good all the time. And one of the things that has been amazing for me to grow, especially like in this relationship,

is we don't have to solve everything now. And it's very hard for me when I feel myself dysregulated and angry or frustrated or stubborn to say the right thing or be the person I want to be. So, you know, instead of, it can be really hard to take a deep breath and like think clearly. So I might just be like, I'm feeling. Like I just have so many thoughts and I think I need like some time to calm down and then let's finish it tonight. I'm going to go get our groceries. I love you. Give you a kiss and we'll talk about this when I get home. We do that a lot. And then by the time 40 minutes goes by, you come home and

you're like, oh my God, I think about this so much more clearly. Like, you know, when you're triggered or your ego is wounded, it comes like very viciously to the forefront and it doesn't allow your true higher yourself to speak. So I think it's also powerful to, you know, take time, sleep on it, talk about it later and not try to solve everything in the heat of the moment. Yeah, it's like that bullshit of like, don't go to bed angry. And it's like, well, sometimes you will. And it's okay that you, it doesn't need to be forced to that like, people should change that to just like, don't go to a bed without a kiss and I love you. Because like, you know, we can be angry and I can just like, I love you and give him a kiss. And like, we can go to bed and talk about it tomorrow. Because I love you. My love for you didn't

change. But you know, you're right. Like we might not be able to solve this if we just got in the fight at 11 and we both have to wake up early tomorrow. Right. It's like when you're dysregulated, like I love that. You took space. And it's like that that was huge for me as an anxious girl to learn how to go instead of going from feeling to fucked, right? Like from up, I felt this. That's it. It's all hell in a handbasket. I have to react. Now I get so often people be like, wow, you're so patient. And I'm like, that was not an adjective that would be describing me five years ago. And it's like you learn the patience because if I don't have it for you, how the fuck. can I have it for me? And again, it's like avoidance are not bad people for saying,

hey, I need to take some space. It's like space is not a bad thing. Maybe all of us in our red-brained, oh my God, everything. It's like, we need the dust to settle so I could see clearly and not start a fucking fight with my partner. That means nothing. So, okay, a couple more questions I want to ask you from Insta that specifically people wanted you. Okay, so how did you find your identity post-college? When you were no longer the athlete and now you were Victoria. Yes, this is a question I get a lot from athletes because your whole life you've been the volleyball player, the basketball star, the soccer girl. And it's hard when you're not doing those things to question, okay, who am I? What makes me special? And what I love to say is, although the thing you are doing is different, you're not

kicking a soccer ball, you're not hitting a volleyball, you're not showing up to practice, the person that you are and the qualities that made you amazing and successful and an incredible high performer, you still have. You still work well in a group setting. You still push yourself. You still set goals and you try to reach them. You're still ambitious and hard. You're still ambitious and working, you know, you still thrive in adversity and difficult moments. So I would just say, maybe even make a list of all the qualities and the skills that have made you a successful athlete or whatever this former identity was and then realize that those are things you can apply to that next thing you do in life. I love that. And it's so true because it's like, how we always think,

that's why even like when I had, when Clem died, that's when I realized like, I don't want to be anything besides myself. Because when you identify with like, I'm only okay. I have this, right? Like, I'm only okay if I'm a baseball player, a basketball, whatever, right? A volleyball player. Then when you, if you potentially lose that, like, that's a big part of the healing game as well as being okay with like, I might lose that, right? Like, it's the same. Ryan and I will have conversations all the time of like, hey, are we still good? If not, that's okay, let's talk about like, do we want to continue our relationship or not? We're not breaking up. It's not like, oh, we're being dramatic. It's that we both are adults to go, it doesn't

mean that it has to last forever. It's okay if it doesn't, but let's just be okay with the fact that that's an opportunity, that's a possibility versus I put my entire fucking identity into something and then I've lost myself when I don't have it anymore. So, okay, last question. What do you consider is the most important experience you've had to gain self-confidence? I would say it was probably the moment that I changed everything about my social media. And this was one of those divine times where it was like, I can't snap. Max always makes fun of me.

It doesn't come out. But it was one of those moments. where I had a total flip in my life. And it was, you know, I had done years of face tuning my body and making my waist smaller and my skin smoother, my teeth whiter, and my butt bigger, all those things. And long story, long, long story short, I was on a vacation taking a bikini photo and I was about to post it. And it was my older brother. And he said, why do you want to post that? And I said, you know, what do you mean? Because it's a good picture. And he's like, no, but why do you want to post it? And I thought for a little bit and then said, because it's going to get lots of likes and comments.

It's a good pick. And he said, why do you want lots of likes and comments? And he really made me sit there. And I was like, because it makes me feel good. And it was like the quickest, most impromptu therapy session I'd ever had about, wow, I'm seeking so much validation based on image. This is why I'm so insecure. And literally the next day I posted a no filter photo of my yaya.

I'm Greeks, my grandma. And I use the hashtag real post. And that was the start of my authentic. candid online social media presence. I still do hashtag real post today. I posted one over 4th of July about having lots of social anxiety. And yeah, that was a big moment in my self-confidence journey of, hey, like, stop doing all this fake stuff to get people to like you and tell you're pretty and all these things when you're actually just so insecure. And then the next day, I had so much confidence to change that. And I've literally kept it going ever since. It's been, I don't know how many years.

No, actually, it's so funny. I have something similar, a friend of mine, I was posting all these photos. and she was like, what are you posting those for? And I was like, just again, she was like, I challenge you this. Post something when you have something to say. And it was like a year where I would not, unless I had something I authentically wanted to share it, then I wouldn't post. And I was like, man, it was such a nice change because you're like, wow, it got me out of the dopamine seeking reward brain and went into the like, how could I step into me

part? It's such a, I love that. And look at you now. I'm sure that friend's like, I mean, you have so much that you say and you help people and that you talk about. And it's like, can we even think about the times we posted something that like didn't have substance or value? Like, I can't. It's wild.

But then it's hard. You go the other way. And I'm like, what if I just want to post like the farmer's market? Like, can I do that? Like, can I just have. And sometimes I'll be like, sometimes you just need to take a break. And that's the post. And you're like, but that's okay.

Because it's like, it's authentic and it's real. Which is why I love you and your content so fucking much is because you are about let's show the authenticity. Let's show who we really are. because at the end of the day, when I lift the veil, you're going to see it. It's not like it's going to be a surprise. So, dude, thank you so much for being on and sharing so much wisdom, so much vulnerability. It's such a refreshing conversation. And I'm just so grateful to have you part of the family now.

Thanks so much, Sabrina. I was an honor to be here. And thanks to everyone for listening to this episode. I so appreciate it. I hope they check out you on RealPod. We had so much fun. And yeah, it was an honor. So thanks, babe.

Of course. And where can people find you? It'll be in the show notes, but plug it a little bit. Yes, they can find me on Instagram and TikTok just at Victoria Brown. And then my podcast is called RealPod. And Sabrina was on recently, so you can find that. And then the episode I talked about, about Max and I's big body image conversation is titled, I've been struggling.

Very dramatic. I love it. Everything will be linked, so nobody will have to find too far. But go check out Victoria. Go check out the RealPod. And keep fucking doing what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you.