The School of Greatness - 1010 Healing, Forgiveness & Finding Freedom w/Holocaust Survivor Dr. Edith Eger

Episode Date: September 23, 2020

“I’m not a victim. I was victimized. It’s not my identity. It’s what was done to me.”Dr. Edith Eger is a Holocaust survivor, clinical psychologist, and author of the book, "The Gift: 12 Lessons to Save Your Life." In this powerful interview, Dr. Edith discusses why she felt like her Nazi guards were more imprisoned than she was, what forgiveness truly means, how to free your mind from the shackles of the past, and so much more.For more: https://lewishowes.com/1010Read Dr. Edith Eger’s new book, “The Gift”

This is episode number 1010 with Holocaust survivor turned clinical psychologist, Dr. Edith Eager. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. In his book, Night, Elie Wiesel wrote, Human suffering anywhere concerns men and women everywhere. And psychotherapist Viktor Frankl wrote,

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. Wiesel and Frankl were both Holocaust survivors who made it their missions to bring peace and healing to the world. And my guest today shares the same purpose. Edith Eger was 16 years old when her family was uprooted from their home in Hungary and sent to Auschwitz concentration camp. There, Edith lost her parents and almost her life, but as she says today, she never lost hope, even in her darkest moments. years young. Dr. Edie is a respected clinical psychologist in San Diego and the author of the books, The Choice and Now The Gift, 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. Her latest work weaves profound clinical and philosophical insights with gripping stories of survival and healing. There are not many Holocaust survivors remaining. And while this conversation was incredibly difficult at times,

it is so incredibly powerful. Edie is a true inspiration, and we could all use her advice on coming to terms with trauma, freeing your mind from the shackles of your past, and choosing to live a loving, positive life, no matter what circumstances are happening around you. In this episode, we discuss why Edie felt like her Nazi guards were more mentally imprisoned than she was,

the difference between being victimized and being a victim, what forgiveness truly means, how Edie has overcome survivor's guilt after so many years, why the opposite of depression is expression, the steps to healing from trauma, and so much more. This has to be one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. And if you feel inspired and supported and uplifted in any way, then make sure to share this with a friend or someone who you think could really use this during this time, someone

that could be inspired and uplifted as well. And coming up in just a moment is Dr. Edith Eager. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. I'm very honored for our guest today, Dr. Edith Eager, who is an Auschwitz survivor and practicing clinical psychologist, author of The Choice, and a new incredible book called The Gift, 12 Lessons to Save Your Life. And I'm so grateful that you are here. So thank you for joining me. I thank you so much to be your grandma today. Exactly.

But also helping people to give birth to the true self because, you know, it is so much easier just to be yourself rather than acting. And that's what happens with age. I'm off stage the same as on stage that I hope to give you the true self and the experiences I had in life that made me the survivor and not the victim of anything or anyone anymore. Yeah. You're one of the few thriving survivors of the Holocaust. And you talk about in your book, the gift that the actual experience for you was a gift. How can you view such a traumatic experience for you with a lot of pain and loss as any sort of a gift at all? How is that even possible? Experience like Auschwitz was viewed very differently by many

people. Some people entered Auschwitz and were so angry that they started to hit the guards and they were shot right in front of me and then there were others who ran into the ward wires and they were electrocuted so you know the stress studies by the hand cellier tells us that anything stressful that comes to us. You have two automatic responses. You either fight or flee, but none of those worked in Auschwitz. So I call Auschwitz a classroom and a discovery. Discover my inner resources. How I was able to turn the experience to discover how I looked at the gods, that they were more in prison than I was, that they were brainwashed. And if you like to read the book by Max Weber, it's called Capitalism and the Protestant Ethics, referring to the Jewish people as a pariah. And if you read Plato, he's going to tell

you that the power of suggestion means that you think of a lie. It has to be a big one. And then you repeat it, repeat it until people believe it. And I think this is very important for people to question authority and not just to fight or flee, but learn how to flow in a situation and discover the inner resources that is the gift. To turn hatred into pity,

to be able to look at the guards and knowing that I could actually pray for them. And I had my freedom within me that they could throw me in a gas chamber any minute. I had no control over that. They would torture me and beat me, but they could never, ever murder my spirit. And that's what I bring you today. That spiritual, wonderful, loving, forgiving person that is not having time to be against, but to be for something, for life, and for uniting, for empowering each other with our differences, that you can be you, you can like your own music,

and I can like my music that you call supermarket music. I like the big band because I was liberated by the 71st Infantry and I learned in 1945 how to dance the boogie woogie. All right. We'll have to dance when I meet you in person. Yeah. So you can have your music and I can have my music and we can agree to disagree and we can just empower each other with our differences at all times. I have so many things I want to ask you about how you were able to have compassion and understanding and pity on the guards when you're in a moment of stress and chaos and fear for your life every day. And I would love to ask some of these practical questions later in this interview, but I'm curious if you could educate my audience and listeners about a little bit about your story of how you even got into the camps and the whole process of your life before then to when you got there, what that was like. Well, I was born into a Jewish family,

and my parents had two beautiful girls, Magda, who's still alive, and Clara, who was a brilliant violinist. And my parents wanted a son, and I came along, so I was really a runt and my sister sang songs about me because I was cross-eyed that I'm ugly and puny. And my mother one day told me very seriously, I'm glad that you have brains because you have no looks. for people today to really see what messages they carry with them in their own head so they can really recognize that you can rewrite your script. I'm not here to be angry at my mom, but I became a very erudite teenager. I read The Interpretation of Dreams by Freud. I read The Interpretation of Dreams by Freud. I had my book club and I had my boyfriend. And we worked together and we had our plans. How are we going to work as a team?

And how are we going to get married? And that was, of course, all interrupted. And that was, of course, all interrupted. I think it's important to say that, unfortunately, we still have genocide as we speak, but never in a history of mankind such a scientific and systematic annihilation of people existed. Annihilation of people existed by 15 highly educated people called the Final Solution. When they celebrated in the evening that they are now able to find a way to put 30,000 Jews in the oven in one day. And I'm part of that Final solution of Eichmann. You see, we have a Nazi in every one of us. Find Hitler in you and find the Mother Teresa and the kindness and the goodness. It's all there. I think God, you know, we are planted here in this earth and the way we water our plant.

That's why I tell young people, don't spoke pot because it'sate Kid, that the best power is brain power. Wax off, wax on. Isn't it wonderful? Oh, the way he doesn't want to do it and goes. Yeah. you learn in Auschwitz, that somehow you create your inner world because during the day, I didn't know what will happen next. That's why we are so unhappy now because we don't know what's going to happen next. When I stood four o'clock in the morning, we didn't know how the day is going to be. We didn't know when we take a shower whether gas is going to come out or water is going to come out.

So that is really that uncertainty that we are experiencing now. Because when you're angry, you give your power away. Wow. There are lots of emotions under the anger. There is a lot of pain under the anger. And what we do with anger, we either vent it or suppress it. I like to dissolve it. Mm. to dissolve it. See, once you're angry, you also are experiencing anxiety and most of all, a lot of fear. Anger is not a primary emotion. When I'm angry at you, you don't suffer. I do.

I'm very selective who's going to get my anger. I'm hearing you say we need to express our emotions, but what if anger is an emotion that we want to express? We can't suppress it. So how do we express an emotion? Everything is energy. Anger is energy in motion. Yeah. Energy is something that you have to look at, that you look at your expectation and then you look at reality. You see, maybe you have to look at again whether your expectations are realistic or unrealistic. And love is not what you feel, it's what you do, that you commit yourself to someone else i had my sister in auschwitz

all we had was each other there so we had to move beyond the me me me and commit ourselves to each other and form a family of inmates if you were just for the me, me, me, you didn't make it. In your book, you have a great message that your mom shared with you before, right when you were taken away. Yeah, what did she share with you? When we were put on a cattle car, my boyfriend said to me, I will never forget your eyes and your hands. So in Auschwitz, I would say to myself, if I survive today and then tomorrow, I'm going to be free. And I would ask everybody to tell me about my hands, about my eyes. And my mom told me in the car, she heard me and she said, we don't know where we're going. We don't know what's waiting for us. Just remember, no one can take away from you

what you put in your own mind. And that's exactly what happened. Everything was taken away from me and I still had my mind and my sister. Was your boyfriend taken away at that point with you as well or did he? My boyfriend was taken away in another wagon and he was shot a day before liberation. liberation. So when I came home, the first thing I did, look for him. And I was told by someone who saw him being shot a day before liberation. Isn't it amazing? It was. And when I was liberated and I was in a hospital and I was put in a cast and I could hardly breathe. But when I got up in the morning, I didn't say what. I said, what for? I had nothing to get up for. And this is that existential vacuum that also Viktor Frankl mentions when you have no meaning in your life. I had no purpose in my life. My parents were not coming home. Reality hit me

and I was very suicidal after I was liberated. And I know when God told me, if you're going to die, you're not going to be able to experience the life that is ahead of you. You got to be for life and for survival and for becoming a doctor now and being a member of the healing arts profession. Yeah. If you love what you learn in these School of Greatness interviews, then I think you should take a minute to check out my next sponsor. And if you haven't already taken a masterclass, then what are you waiting for? Masterclass gives you exclusive access to a wide range of online courses taught by the best of the best. You can learn style from Queer Eye's Tan France,

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That's masterclass.com slash greatness for 15% off Masterclass. I can't even imagine what it would have been like to try to put yourself back together and find meaning and find purpose, especially at 17 years old. I think you were at that time, 17, 18. 17 when I was liberated. Yeah. 16 when I entered Auschwitz, yes. How do you start to approach finding meaning, finding purpose, when all purpose has been lost, almost all family has been lost and taken from you?

Yeah, it's not about lost and found. It's really discovery. Discovering something that no one can take away from you. And that is a discovery. And I hope that people are listening and they can also find a time out to discover that even though many, many things didn't happen their way, and they could have killed themselves, because it's easier to die than to live. And yet you didn't. So I hope you can congratulate yourself. And because we go through the valley of the shadow of death, but we don't camp there. We don't set up household there. I'm not a victim. I was victimized. It's not my identity. It's what was comes to me who was sexually abused, I also became a diplomat in sexology many, many years ago. But if they tell me, I don't know what to tell you, Edie, because I was sexually abused, but you were in Auschwitz. And my answer is, you were more in prison than I was because I knew the enemy. What was the enemy?

If you were touched inappropriately by a father or an uncle or somebody in the family and you keep that secret, the opposite of depression is expression. What comes out of your body doesn't make you ill. What stays in there does. That's why when people tell me many years, write a book, write a book, and I would say, I have nothing to say. I have nothing to say. So I encourage people, you have a lot to say. Write a book. You're going to feel much better because my book is now at the table of my great-grandsons, and I have seven of those.

Wow. Isn't that wonderful? It's inspiring. Yeah, it's amazing. Never give up. Never, ever give up. I love that. You're an inspiration. And you, you know, I experienced sexual abuse when I was five years old by a man that I didn't know. He was the son of a babysitter that I went to. And it took me 25 years until I started to express.

And for 25 years, I suppressed and depressed the emotions of that trauma and that story in my mind and I was so ashamed that if anyone knew this about me no one would love me or accept me as a human being it was a story I continue to tell myself I love you for sharing that because shame is awful yeah everything has to do with addiction has to go back to shame and really look at that shame that you end up, unfortunately, even blaming you for something you never did. And unfortunately, I see that many perpetrators were also abused themselves. So we got to really look at everything from generation to generation, to the mother-son relationship. See, I hold you beautifully as a mother, but your father has a different relationship with you.

Your father has a different relationship with you because when you're a little boy, you look at your father and you make a decision that you want to be just like him or you want to be everything he's not. So when you grow up, you may become this wonderful person in your profession and you give up the need for your father's approval but when you say i'm never gonna be like my father then you want to prove something and if you want to prove something you're still a prisoner oh man that rings true to me because for most of my life i was trying to prove people wrong i was trying to prove the the kids who picked on me wrong, the person who sexually abused me. And it was never fulfilling. I would prove them wrong by achieving or accomplishing, and then I would feel unfulfilled and angrier after the fact. You win the battle and you lose the war. That's how I felt for so many years until seven years ago, I started to

express and open up and start the healing journey. Thank you. Thank you. And it's like everything started to shift where I was like, I no longer want to prove people wrong, but I want to lift others up and help others heal. And I'm curious, it took me 25 years from my traumatic experience until I was able to face it and address it internally and start talking about it openly to heal how long did it take for you to start facing the trauma that was inside of you from this experience and and what was that process like when you started one thing I say that I never forget what happened, it's my cherished wound, but I don't overcome it. I come to terms with it.

There is a difference. So when you say I overcame, I'm going to tell you that you just don't allow it to control your life anymore so you have your cherished wound and i have mine in our hearts yeah but don't try to overcome just make a decision that you're not gonna give another inch and what you do give up is revenge because forgiveness is not you forgiving him for what he did to you. You're forgiving yourself and you give yourself a gift not to carry that animal, that perpetrator, that you let him go. Letting go is really the definition of love in my vocabulary the definition of love to me is the ability to let go to release but don't run from it

don't fight it face it and when the feelings come up, invite it in. It's okay to, there is no forgiveness without rage. You got to, you got to, you got to feel that rage. Don't be afraid to rage. Don't have a drink to calm down. No, scream it out. The opposite of depression is expression. And you're not revolving, you're evolving. Just like a butterfly, we go through the metamorphosis and then we shed

the chrysalis so we can fly freely like a butterfly. I love butterflies. I am full of butterflies all over my house. I love that. How long did it take for you to start to truly face it and embrace that trauma? Was it quickly after? Was it years or decades? I worked with two paraplegics, both Vietnam veterans. And one of them was in a fetal position, seeking revenge and angry and cursing country and God and the other one said to me you know doc I am sitting in a wheelchair and I'm so grateful that my God gave me a second chance in life I can see my children's eyes much closer and the flowers I can reach much easier. And I am wearing a white coat. And it says, Dr. Eager, Department of Psychiatry. And I feel like a biggest imposter because I kept my secret for at least 20 years. Never told anyone I was in Auschwitz.

Really? You didn't tell anyone? No, because I wanted to be you. I wanted to be a Yankee dude or dandy. I wanted to speak English without an accent. I spent three years at the university trying to get rid of my accent. Look how far I have gotten. And then I decided to go back to Auschwitz because I realized I could not get them further than I have gone myself. What year did you go back to Auschwitz? Sometimes in the 70s. So 30 years after you were there? Yes. Roughly 25 years? Yes, you know I'd graduated with honors

cum laude and I never showed up for my graduation because I didn't forgive myself that I survived. Wow. See I didn't need a Hitler, I had one in me. You didn't go to graduation because you didn't feel like you deserved it? Because I had survivor's guilt that I survived and they didn't. And why should you be celebrating? Exactly. Wow. Exactly. So I think that we are our own own mind and the key is in your pocket. You know, it's interesting, Edie. My brother went to prison when I was eight years old for four and a half years. He sold drugs to an undercover cop and went to prison back in the 1990s. The war on drugs was a big thing.

prisons back in the 1990s when the war on drugs was a big thing. And growing up in a small town in Ohio, I didn't know anyone else who had went to prison as an eight-year-old. And so it was a traumatic experience for myself, our entire family, that this happened to one of our family members. And I remember going to the prison almost every weekend to visit him. There was visiting hours and we could go and see. Good for you. Since then.

So I've been to a. To see you the healer. You show up. I try to do my best. You show up. Yeah. I have been to a prison here in near Los Angeles a few times as well to work with inmates to help them take off,

take off the masks that hold them back the emotional mass you change their lives i do i'm doing my part the best and i when i was there i realized that some of these men who are have a life sentence in prison who are not going to get out have found have found peace and healing within. And they are in a prison for life, but they have found a way to create peace in their mind and not be in a prison. And yet there are some of us in the outside world who have certain freedoms physically, but mentally we're in a concentration camp or a prison like you mentioned. Why do you think we put ourselves in a mental

prison i think some of us do not think that we deserve so when it's good it's bad they don't even know how to really enjoy something they i call these people yes but yes but yes but and I say give me the but I give you an end yes and you know I clean up people's English that yes and furthermore you know and it's not why me but what now I can only touch you now what advice would you give to someone who is experiencing some type of traumatic event, no matter, and not to compare trauma, but when someone goes through a breakup or a loss of expectations, which might be traumatic or a near death or a death in the family or any type of event, abuse emotionally, sexually, physically, what advice would you have for them from the

moment they have that trauma on what they should be doing next what steps i think the work that i do has to do with three things grieving feeling and healing You cannot heal what you don't feel. Don't medicate grief, ever. It's not clinical depression. You know, when I teach at a medical school, that's the first thing I say. Please don't medicate grief. It's a natural reaction to a loss. Yeah.

Grieving, feeling, healing. And healing and healing. And it's a lifelong process. And grieving has to do with acknowledging that you expected one thing and you got another and you were told one thing and then it didn't happen yeah and it didn't happen how do we learn to grieve better so that we don't shame ourselves for grieving or shame ourselves for not being more positive when something traumatic happens what What's a good process that we do? Oh, just cry.

Crying is healing because what comes out of your body doesn't make you ill. What stays in there does. So what we do with anger, we either vent it, suppress it. I like you to dissolve it. Anger is not a dirty word. It's okay. It's okay.

It's how long you're going to hold on to it. But don't deny it. Don't run from it. How do we express anger in a relationship from a lost expectation in a healthier way where it's more dissolved as opposed to you did this and you did this and you were wrong. And because some people might interpret that and say, well, I'm just expressing my anger like Dr. Edie told me to, but how do we communicate anger where we don't suppress it, but we get it out in a loving, healthier way? When in English language, someone says you, you're going to be dumped on. Just remember,

you're going to be dumped on. Now you think of me. I'm on your shoulder and say to yourself, and say to yourself, the longer they talk, the more relaxed I become. You take the negative stimuli, immediately turn it into positive. Yeah. I am practicing my low frustration tolerance level. Okay. How do I? I'm not a shrink.

I'm a stretch. You stretch your comfort zone. That's what I learned in Auschwitz, to stretch the comfort zone. Only children blame. how old you are. You can be 20, 40, or 80. You did this to me. You made me angry. Try to make me angry, and I'm going to tell you I'm very selective who's going to ever get my anger. Do you feel anger today, and how do you personally express it? If someone says they're going to do something, but they let you down, if you don't see something in the world that's happening that's unjust, how do you express this where it's not that thing having power over you, but you expressing your feelings? What you can really do with another person, you let them know what their behavior, what

effect their behavior has on you and how you feel and what would you like instead. You go to solution. Not defensiveness. And then you learn to negotiate and compromise. If you're not willing to negotiate and compromise, don't get married. That's good advice. Yeah, because there is no such thing as truth. There is my truth and your truth.

And all relationship is going to have compromise and negotiation. truth. And all relationship is going to have compromise and negotiation. I think that we can really have a relationship that is based on commonalities. See, look at Romeo and Juliet. We marry people we don't know. Most marriages are based on faulty expectations there is a gap between expectation and reality and then you have to look at expectation whether you are realistic or unrealistic you cannot give me what you don't have see sometimes we women think that he's going to be giving me everything and anything at any time. And there is no such one person. We're limited. I can give you in my limited capacity. And that's why it's good to ask for what you want and let the other person know what's in it for them and you make a deal. If you do this, I'll give you that.

If you wash the dishes, we'll have more time together. so that the other person really would like to give of themselves rather than waiting for someone else to make you happy. Nobody will make you happy. You make yourself happy because self-love is self-care. It's not narcissistic. Narcissistic people don't like themselves. Do you love yourself? I want you to get up in the morning and look in the mirror and say,

Luis, I love you. I honor you. There'll never be another you. That's exciting to me. Very exciting that you're one of a kind diamond in a rough. Yes. Yeah. You have a lot to look forward to.

Yeah. You were victimized. Remember, it's not who you are. And I'm so sorry. And yet, I'm so grateful that I'm talking to a brilliant interviewer who is sharing himself with me. That's really a gift to me. I appreciate that. I'm going to really cherish this interview because you put yourself into it.

And that's what it's all about. I appreciate that. Thank you. And I want to follow up to the conversation we were having about happiness just now. When we expect someone else to bring us happiness in a relationship, what does that do to us? And how do we learn to love ourselves and find happiness, whether the other person brings us joy or not, in your opinion? Beautiful. Dependency breeds depression. If I wait for you to make me happy, I'm never going to be happy. And what is happy? Who is happy now with all this turmoil

and when children are being taken away from their parents, when we have all these millions of people who are unfortunately falling into that terrible COVID-19, you know, I mean, what is, you know, it's such a general word. I don't really know how I want to use that word. Am I happy? Well, I'm cheerful. I do the best I can. But I don't know this word happy.

It's very general. You mentioned about Auschwitz as the best classroom for you. For me, yes. As the best classroom. My best education. You know, there is an EQ and an IQ. Thank God I have both. Because I did graduate with cum laude. But the work I do

has to do from one survivor to another. And together, we're going to be stronger. So I hold your precious hand and be going to revisit the places where you've been. And you're going to tell it to me as if it would happen now. See, when I would work with you, I would ask you to be five years old. So you can really feel that feeling that you're powerless. And you don't even think that there is something wrong with it either. Because anybody who touches you and it feels good you know we build that way but it's very important not to suppress and keep that secret secrets are really unfortunately

running in families and that's not good at all yeah i hope this is a time out when people can share and get it out. What comes out to your body will never make you ill. What stays in there does. Maybe you can run groups for men. Yeah. And you can meet and recognize just how much you have in common. The man's brain is very different from our, you know, the hemisphere, the left and right hemisphere is different in a male than a female.

That's why men want to understand everything. I want to feel something and I come to the feelings. I don't ask, how can I help you ever? I say, how can I be useful to you? Because I'm not doing it for you. I'm doing it with you. So should I stop asking, how can I support you and say, how can I be useful? How can I be useful to you?

And how can I be useful? Yeah, how can I be useful to you? And how can I help you? It's like Humpty Dumpty, I'm going to put you back together again. There is no such thing. I'm not Humpty Dumpty. And I cannot do anything with you unless you're willing. That's a very good word. Willing to be willing to revisit the places where you've been. But I'm there with you now.

You're not there. You're here with me. You're safe with me. I provide the atmosphere. I had a 14-year-old young boy who was a member of David Koresh in Texas. So he came to me and said, I'm a boot boy. You know, I know nothing about boots, but I looked at his boots and I acknowledged it. And then he got up and he put his elbow on my desk and said, hey doc, it's time for America to be white again. I'm going to kill all the Jews.

Wow. Using the N-word, all the Muskins and all the Chincos. See, if I would have reacted, I would have dragged that boy into the corner. I would have stepped on him and tell him, how dare you talk to me like that? Because I saw my mother going to the gas chamber. But you know, I spoke to God in Auschwitz, my spirit, my Tinkerbell, my spirit. Because people don't come to me, they're sent to me. And the most obnoxious person is your best teacher. So I asked God, what is the meaning of this? And God told me, find the bigot in you. And I said, it's impossible. I came to America penniless. I worked in a factory in 1949.

They gave me seven cents a dozen to cut off boxer shorts. I became the breadwinner because my husband ended up in a hospital. But when I went to the bathroom, one of them said colored. And I didn't realize that in America, we have prejudice. Prejudice means to prejudge. And so I tell God, it's impossible. You see, I'm not a prejudice because I came to America and I joined the NAACP and I marched with Martin Luther King.

It didn't do any good to me. God said, find the bigot in you. And not until I created the environment for that 14-year-old young boy who lost all his freedom to this David Koresh joining the white supremacy neo-Nazi group. And I said, tell me more. And he never knew because I created the loving environment of the mother he never had. And so this is it, you know, creating the environment for anyone that you are with, that they can truly trust you and put even their lives in your hand.

But it was very difficult in Auschwitz to put your life into the Nazis' hands. So, you know, you have to be selective. And I think you can now create the young people in America to be for something, to be for uniting, to be good role models. And I think you're a wonderful role model. Thank you. So I hope that this is your calling.

This is not my job, because if you have a job, you want to make the most amount of money with the least amount of work, right? But your calling, I never look at the clock. I don't do this 45-minute hour, and I don't see one person after another. I give as much time, time, time. That's what love is. T-I-M-E. It's a four-letter wonderful word. But you need time with you.

See what your head is telling you. Your body talks to you all the time and the body never lies. I guarantee you. What was your body telling you in Auschwitz? Did you feel like you had any hope at all? Was all hope gone? To turn hatred into pity.

How did you have that wisdom at 16? I think I had a loving God. I called him Tinkerbell, the free spirit, that I still had a choice. Do you think that's what kept you alive during that time? That kept me totally alive because they took my blood a lot. And I asked one time, why are you taking my blood? And he spoke to me in German that I'm taking your blood to aid the German soldiers so we can win the war and take over the world, especially America. I didn't yank my arm away, of course. I wouldn't be here telling you.

But I said to myself, you stupid idiot. I was a coming ballerina. With my blood, you're never going to win the war. So I had my humor within me, not sarcasm or cynicism, Not sarcasm or cynicism, but kind of philosophical humor that I still had my spirit telling myself that I know better. My blood is not going to ever help you to win the war. So you see, again, the choice, the choice. What are some of the greatest lessons you learned during that year? Some of the mental practices you discovered yourself or maybe that you witnessed from a friend or someone who was

in there with you? With me was a lovely girl from Yugoslavia and we were both very proud nationalists. I was a very proud Hungarian and she was a very proud member of Yugoslavia. And she told me that we're going to be liberated by Christmas. And Christmas came, and we were not liberated. She died the next day. Don't set yourself up to something that has to happen. Have as many choices as possible. That taught me tremendous amount how not to think black and white, all or nothing. Look at all the options.

The more choices you have, the less you feel like a victim. It's a very good question. You ask very good questions. Thank you. Thank you. You're a great interviewer. Thank you. How do you create multiple choices when all of your choices are taken away in theory?

In Europe, we used to ask, is it good for the Jews? But you can ask yourself, is this the best I can do? And chances are, that's not the only thing that you can do, that there are other choices that you're willing to maybe settle for something different. Hopefully that you are realistic, but not idealistic. Realistic, not idealistic. Idealistic because when the idealists don't find what they're looking for, they become sarcastic, cynical. Hungarians are very sarcastic, very cynical. In your book, the book is amazing, and I want everyone to get it,

but you talk about 12 imprisoning beliefs. Yes. And I don't want to go into all 12, but can you share one or two that really stand out for you? And then I want to talk about a couple of tools that you use that I like. Are you evolving or re-evolving? My daughter calls it edism. And I had someone who went to a marathon and somehow in the middle, she stopped.

And she thought she's not going to be able to make it. But then she ran to my office and said dr. eager I did it I did it I said what you told me to say yes I am yes I can yes I will so you're gonna find that somewhere the other thing I told you that there is no forgiveness without rage. You got to go through that rage and see whether you are ready to forgive. Because it's not up to me to forgive you. It's up to me to be actually able to be for myself. able to be for myself and for myself needs to be free that I give myself a gift. See, I don't have any godly powers to forgive you or anyone else, but I do what's humanly possible and then hand

it over. So that would be a good one. Forgiveness would be very, very important. The other is to, how do you find hope in hopelessness? I think that's very important. Very, very, very important. That's very challenging. I'm looking over and seeing, you know, don't cover garlic with chocolate. Don't put paprika on whipped cream. You know, it's just see how you can find balance between working, loving, and playing.

You have a tool or an exercise where you say create a chart. Exactly. I love your exercise on forgiveness where you ask the person to write two letters to someone who hurts you. Exactly. Can you share what those two letters are? Yeah, well, the first letter is all the rage that you have. Get it out. Get it out. Yes, yeah, you can, because you're not going to, just get it out.

Scream it out, you SOB, use whatever you can do. How could you do this to me? And just get it all out, okay? And because once it's out, you're gonna feel better. That's why the opposite of depression is expression. You're gonna feel better. You see, you get the vomit out. And then you write the love letter then you like what you are for rather than what you're against and so that's why two letter is

better than one letter but the one letter is very essential to get rid of the poison that is in your mind so write a anger letter of the things that they did to hurt you or upset you or let you down, get it all out, and then write a love letter where you're finding things to appreciate about what you're learning from that experience. And it's okay to be disappointed as long as you don't allow it to lead it to discouragement. And it's okay to be angry as long as it to lead it to discouragement. And it's okay to be angry as long as it doesn't lead to resentment. What happens when we hold on to resentment?

It's eating us up. It's not a sign of self-love. It's self-hate. Wow. Self-love does not include resentment. No. Wow. That's a powerful distinction.

It's okay to be angry, but how long you gonna hold on? It's up to you because you're hurting you. You have to be a good mommy to you. And good mommies don't criticize. Good mommies don't say yes, but. You're very handsome, but you're fat, but you're pimply. No yes, but. Yes, and. You're one of a kind, beautiful God's child.

And you were planted here as a seed. If I don't water my flowers in my backyard in this heat it's gonna die what do you use for water did you have a good breakfast did you have your protein shake or or did you have a donut with a with a coke i've got a few final questions for you i'm i'm really inspired by this conversation, and I hope we can do this in person in the future. What was it like for you when you finally learned to forgive the Nazis and the people that killed your parents and your friends and your community? What was that like for you, the feeling of forgiveness? I have a feeling that the forgiveness with me at 16 started in Auschwitz.

Just remember when we were evacuated and go from one place to another, and I was used carrying ammunition on top of a train for the Nazis so they wouldn't bomb, but they bombed anyway. So we went from one place to another and we ended up in April somewhere near Austria and we were put in a German village and we were told that if we dare to leave the premises, we were put into a kind of a community hall upstairs. If you dare to leave the premises, you're going to be shut right away. But my sister told me, if you don't get some food, I'm going to die. See, she was more hungry than I was. I was skinnier, but I was a gymnast. I was a gymnast. So I didn't care about that. I went outside and I saw some carrots in the next garden. I had no respect for other people's property. I was still a gymnast and I jumped and I stole the carrots. Can you picture me do that? And I'm climbing the wall and i meet the god with a gun wow what happened

i never held a gun in my life and i heard the clicking three times and i began to pray not for me and somehow there was an eye contact and he turned his gun around and pushed me inside but I had the carrots. I give the carrots to Magda. The following morning he comes and says, who dared to break the rules? And I'm thinking, who knows?

He may kill all of us. I better go. And I'm thinking, who knows? He may kill all of us. I better go. And I'm crawling to him. I can't even walk. I'm crawling. And I said, it was me. German people are starving. He gives me a little loaf of bread.

I wish I could find that man. He said, you must have been hungry to do what you did. There were good people. I met the diamond in that garbage place. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? It's unbelievable. I'm telling you that if I could meet that man today, I mean, I cannot tell you. I don't know how old he was and I don't know if he's still alive, but please, if ever anybody can hear that story, I want to see that man. What would you say to him? He would have killed me

because he was told to kill. I would tell him that I want to thank him for my life. Because we never knew any minute we were told every day in Auschwitz that the only way we'll get out of here is a corpse. So when people tell you anything, all you have to do is put an eye in front of it. You this, you that. Just put an eye that they're talking about themselves. What was the greatest lesson the Nazis taught you? How to not allow anybody to poison me.

How not to allow anybody to brainwash. And how to question authority and never adhere blindly to authority. Yes, taught me everything I practice today has to do to be for life and for freedom. Freedom is my word. Freedom from the concentration camp that is in your own mind. And what does freedom mean to you? Freedom means to be my true self, to be God's precious, loving seed that was planted here for me to give to the world what can happen when good people do bad things i want to make sure everyone gets your book they can get the book called the gift 12 lessons to save your life i've got two quick questions if that's okay for you.

Sure. And before I ask the questions, I just want to acknowledge you, Edie, for being an incredible gift to myself and to the world, the work you continue to do to serve, to inspire the world, and to really showcase your story and your teaching and your lessons and your wisdom. Well, I'd like to say that I march with Martin Luther King, and I too have a dream that we can unite,

that we can empower each other with our differences. I don't give up on that, so I'm hoping that your interview with me will be with someone who is an ambassador for peace and goodwill. Yeah, of course. I'm all for it. I don't have time to hate because if I would hate, I would still be a hostage or a prisoner of the past. I don't live in Auschwitz. I don't live in the past. I'd like to maybe emphasize that one person can make a difference like Gandhi.

He took the whole British Empire down to their knees without any bloodshed. I'm on the same mission with you. All right. We'll work together. I hope that you let them know that you have someone here who has been through it and

able to somehow turn tragedy into victory of how we can look at anything in life, not a problem but a challenge, not a crisis but a transition. I'm all for it. That's what I'm here to do. This question I ask everyone is at the end called the three truths.

And I would like you to imagine that you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish and you continue to live a very long, healthy life, accomplishing more, writing more books, helping people. But I'd like you to imagine that on your last day, everything you've ever created has to go with you to the next place. So all of your work, ever created has to go with you to the next place. So all of your work, your books, your interviews, they go with you to the next place. And you get to leave behind, though, three lessons that you know to be true about your entire life. The lessons that you would leave behind, if this is all we would have to remember you by, what would you say are those three key lessons that you'd want to leave behind? Love, joy, and passion for life and purpose. I love that. And what would you say, this is my final question, what would you say is your

definition of greatness? Just to be your one-of-a-kind, unique, authentic person that will never ever was in a million years before or after you. That's really something to wow about. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Edith, I really appreciate your time. I appreciate you very much, Louis. It's been a pleasure. It's been a joy.

Your book's amazing. My producer, Ben, who's listening. Keep on, keep on, keep on. Yeah, of course. And hopefully we can meet in person soon and do another one in the future. There will never be another you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Rita.

Much love to you. Thank you so, so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, make sure to subscribe to the School of Greatness on Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating and review and share this. The best way that you can inspire and impact other people is by sharing this message so they can be inspired and impacted as well. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this show, or you can share the link lewishouse.com slash 1010 to send them directly to this episode. If you want inspirational messages from me every single week,

just text me right now the word podcast to 614-350-3960. And I'm going to send you a text message that will inspire you and motivate you every single week. And I want to close with a quote from Edie herself in her book, The Gift, where she said, Hope isn't a distraction from Edie herself in her book, The Gift, where she said, hope isn't a distraction from darkness. It's a confrontation with darkness. If you felt any type of trauma, darkness, loneliness, or pain in your life, then you know how powerful her words are. And I highly recommend you check out her book and read it for yourself and if you know the pain that you felt in your past just know that other people are

feeling that as well the best way you can support them is by being kind by being loving by being non-judgmental by finding ways to lift them up and I want to remind you today that if no one has told you lately you are loved you matter and you are worthy. I'm so grateful for you and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.