The School of Greatness - 136 Health, Happiness, and Organic Living with the Food Babe Vani Hari

Episode Date: February 9, 2015

"Once you know what's in your food you can't unlearn it." - Vani Hari AKA The Food Babe If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at www.lewishowes.com/136.

This is episode number 136 with Food Babe, Bani Hari. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Thanks everyone for joining me today on this episode.

Very pumped to bring on my good friend, Vani Hari. We had a great sit down here in New York City, and she has an amazing book that's coming out right now. If you're listening to it, the day this is launched, it's coming out like the day after in this whole week. So it's called The Food Babe Way. So make sure to check it out. We'll be talking about it throughout this entire episode and asking her lots of different questions about the chemicals that are in our foods, what really is healthy for us, how you can start shifting some of the things to have a healthier

lifestyle in the way you're eating. And also, we talk about her approach to building such a massive following with quitting her job and taking this on over the last couple of years. Also, how you can make a change in your life if something is upsetting you or you believe something is not right in the world, how you can really take it on and make a real difference in the lives of millions of people. Very excited about this. I hope you enjoy this one. Make sure to stick around to the end for some more goodies and updates. But let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only Vani Hari.

Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited. I've got my good friend, Bonnie Hari. How's it going? Good. How are you doing, Louis? Doing great. We're in New York City.

Yes. And we originally met in Los Angeles, right? Through, I think Derek introduced us, Derek Halpern. Yeah. But, you know, I feel like I've known you for a really long time. Another life. And when I first saw you online, I was like, I have known him for another life or something. Why do you feel like that? I don't know. There's something about you. And how weird is it? The first time we went to dinner, we hung out after dinner and went and investigated together. We did. I mean, if that's not like a kindred spirit, I don't know what is.

Right, right. Yeah. We went to Starbucks. We walked down the street in West Hollywood and went to Starbucks. And you were doing like a campaign right then about Starbucks because they were using ingredients in like a caramel latte or something. Yeah. And their frappuccino, they're using caramel color level four, which is crazy because

this coffee, why are you coloring it with artificial dye, right? Right, right. Well, this artificial dye, according to all of these different consumer health organizations, have found that it has a small cancer risk associated with it. So it doesn't make sense for Starbucks to use this ingredient. And they can obviously color it normal. And you know what was really crazy is that in the UK, when they sell pumpkin spice lattes or their frappuccinos, they don't use this chemical there. Why not? Because their citizens in other countries use the precautionary principle.

And so they don't allow those type of chemicals to be used. Wow. Is it not government regulated here or why are we allowed to use them here and not in the UK? Well, we all know that the government here is heavily influenced by industry. And just like the banking industry, well, the food industry is also heavily influencing government in Washington. Is that because there's a lot of money being donated or why are they influenced? Well, that is a big question. What's the theory? The theory is, is that unfortunately our government officials need money to run for office.

And so a lot of times they're co-opted by these big industry, industries like the banking industry and food industry. And so it's, and it's really funny that, you know, the people who used to work in the food industry also are working in the government now. Like the deputy commissioner of the FDA, Michael Taylor, used to work for Monsanto. So, you know, you see all these like revolving doors happening where they go in industry and then they get in the government and they go back to industry. And so like they're all these like really incestuous relationships and it's really not good for the public. Sure, sure. Okay, cool. Well, you talk

a lot about this in your new book, which is called The Food Babe Way. And it's how to break free from the hidden toxins in your food and lose weight, look years younger and get healthier in just 21 days. You've got a lot of information in here. And I want to talk about first how you got involved in this whole food investigative journalism reporting, changing the world in the first place. So you used to work in corporate America as a consultant. Is that right? Or where did you work? That's right. I was a consultant. So right out of school, got an amazing job working for a big six consulting firm, Accenture. In Charlotte? Yeah, in Charlotte.

But they put me on the road. So it was the financial services office, and they put me on the road. And I traveled all over the United States working at different banks, basically. And when I majored in computer science, I never thought I would be working in banks. I thought I would be selling software or developing things. But instead, I would be working in banks. I thought I would be like selling software or developing things or, you know, but instead I was working in big banks. And what I really quickly realized is my skill set was actually working with the management teams. So I worked with C-level executives to help them change aspects about a company. So they wanted to merge with a new company. I helped them with that transition. Or they wanted to change an organizational structure. I helped them with that. And so that's really where my skill

sets were. And so for 13 years, I was a management consultant. And it wasn't until I finally realized that fighting for a better food system needs me more than the corporation. Why did you realize that? Was it something with your health? Were you not feeling good or what was happening? Well, the reason I started foodbabe.com, and believe me, I wasn't going to call it foodbabe.com. I wanted to call it eathealthyliveforever.com. It's a good name too. Yeah. My husband, who's the technologist in the family, thought that was a really stupid name and nobody would remember it.

And so he said, well, what about Food Babe? And I thought to myself, like, what? No, I'm not calling myself the Food Babe. And, you know, most of my life, I look nothing like a babe. And Louis, I'll send you the before picture so you can use it. I mean, it's absolutely crazy. the before picture so you can use it. But I mean, it's absolutely crazy. My mom just recently dropped off a bunch of old photos and trophies and other things from my old room at home because she was just sick of it being there. And I'm 35 now. God, I'm telling everyone how old I am. But

my son was still back home. So she finally dropped it all off. And I was looking through pictures and I couldn't believe some of the pictures I found about the way I looked and that I haven't seen in so many years. Because I remember when I was in my 20s, when I had a big health crisis, I remember throwing out a lot of pictures because I just didn't want to see myself that way anymore. I had gained 30 pounds. I looked really bad. I had eczema all over my face. And so when I looked back at these pictures that my mom dug up and found and was in this box, I showed them to my husband who's actually never seen me like that.

Wow. And he couldn't believe it. And it was just, it's just shocking. But anyway, so going back to the name Food Babe, never thought of myself that way. So I'd even call a blog that was just very, like, I was just, like, very nervous about it. But I ended up calling my friends and my really good girlfriends and saying, hey, what do you think about this name for a blog? Because they're really the ones that wanted me to share this information. They wanted to know my recipes and what I'd done to transform my life.

And they knew that I was uncovering all this stuff about the food industry that I would tell them in tidbits when we'd go out to eat or we'd be out shopping or we'd be out traveling together. And they were like, well, why don't, we kind of came up with this together, why don't we teach people to become a food bait? Teach people to become food baits, right? So for the first year and a half of the blog, I never had my photo on the top header. I had these three cartoon characters. One was working out. I never saw that. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, one was working out. One was like carrying a tray of something. And another one was drinking a martini, which has nothing to do with health, really. But anyways, I blogged about working out. I blogged about what I was eating. And I blogged about my travel because that was really one of my great passions still to this day. It's one of my great passions.

I love to see the world. You know, I've been to all seven continents with my husband. Wow, that's cool. Yeah. And so whenever, you know, it's funny, like we were both consultants. And so anytime that, you know, we would save a little money, we would go travel with it. We wouldn't buy a fancy car or a fancy place to live or anything like that. We always used the money to go with experience. And so we always picked a different place every single year. And so anyways, I love, love traveling.

And so wrote about that. And actually one of my first blog posts is how to eat healthy on the road because I'd figured out the tips, right? I had taught, like basically taught myself, you know, how do you be on the road 50 weeks out of the year or 40 weeks out of the year when you're traveling out of your home, away from your kitchen, away from your routine? How do you maintain your weight? How do you eat healthy? How do you avoid all the toxins that I discovered in food? And I started to teach myself these habits. And that's really what spawned everybody's asking questions around me. Like, why are you asking the server about MSG in your soup? Or why are you bringing in your lemon with you in your bag

for the morning? And they were asking these questions. And so I wanted to teach them. I wanted to tell them how. And I tell you, at first I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know anything about blogging. I didn't know that there were other bloggers like me out there that were writing about this kind of stuff. I didn't know that there's this huge online community, these people who are changing the world online like yourself. And it was a really eye-opening experience because all I had been taught most of my life was, you know, you get a great job, you have a 401k, you have a health insurance plan, and then you retire. You make a lot of money. Make six big years.

And I had gotten to that. And I tell you, it wasn't fulfilling at all. And your health wasn't fulfilled either. No. My health was so horrible in that job early on that it really spawned this awakening that, you know what, I'm not going to let any boss, any job get in my way. You know, when I went on the road initially right out of college, I was working close to 80 hours a week, sometimes working the night shift. We had this project in it. This is kind of boring, but I'm just going to tell you what it is. But we had this project where we had to convert 27 different banks into one bank. And so back then when you like, let's say you lived in Georgia and you wanted to deposit a

check in Tennessee, you couldn't do that back then, which is unheard of now. Like you think, what? You can't do that? But back then, and this is over 12 years ago, you couldn't do that, but back then and this is over 12 years ago You couldn't do that So we were converting those banks and there's just tons of work and it was ended up being the project of the year But it almost killed me Wow So what were the things you were eating during this 80 hour work week? Like what were the foods with the fast food and I ate everything I'm talking. Okay every morning I would have a huge coffee. Okay. I never drank coffee like that much in college, but I tell you this job made me drink coffee. I had this huge

cup of coffee. Did you put sugar and cream and milk? Oh, 10 packets of sugar. No way. Yes. Every morning? Almost. I mean, I remember always counting them and when I'd have to like order out, like, can you make sure there's 10 packets of sugar? I mean, this is crazy, right? out. Like, can you make sure there's 10 packets of sugar? I mean, this is crazy, right? So that was for breakfast. Yeah. Along with a big blueberry muffin from the little coffee shop that I would go to, right? Or the Starbucks. And then I would have, for lunch, I'd have whatever they catered in. And every day was different. So one day would be this huge Italian spread. I mean, I'm talking chicken Parmesan and a huge thing of dessert tray,

like with tiramisu and like, I mean, the most richest food. But you're like, you're working like a dog and they want to work you hard. They want you to build the client. So you're working through lunch. So you're grabbing, going, you're eating while you're working. You're not even,

there's no mindfulness going on whatsoever. And then at dinner, since we were on the expense account, a lot of times our bosses would take us out and we would go to big steakhouses. And, you dinner, since we were on the expense account, a lot of times our bosses would take us out and we would go to big steakhouses. And I don't eat beef because I just gave that up a long time ago, but I would get the huge lobster tail with the big bowl of butter and I would eat all of that butter. And the butter is not bad for you. It's just that amount was kind of insane. And all of the bread and the butter. So good.

Yes. And then the big cheesecake at the end of the night. I mean that amount was kind of insane. And all of the bread and the butter. Yes. And then the big cheesecake at the end of the night. I mean, this is a typical day. And then when I was working night shift, because there's nothing open, there's a Krispy Kreme nearby. Oh, don't even give me a start on the Krispy Kreme. I could eat six of those in like two minutes. And it wasn't like I was an overeater or I like a problem with eating or anything. I was just eating to get full so that I could get back to work. It wasn't even like, it just was, I was really eating what people were putting in front of me and I really wasn't taking control of that. So how was your health during this time? Like what was happening? What was coming up for you? Was it like, were you just low energy or did you actually see physical, uh, you know,

Were you just low energy or did you actually see physical, you know, things happening to your body? Well, I noticed that my face started getting bigger, right? I took this. Gluten face. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it's called. Like marshmallow man face. It was.

It's the first place I gained weight, I tell you, is my face. But so my face started getting bigger. is my face. But so my face started getting bigger and it was really, really, really horrible because I remember taking a passport photo and you know, passports stay good for like over 10 years. It's like taking up the whole square. It's like two to the edge. Yeah. And, and so I thankfully lost that passport. I don't have it. I don't have it. I lost it on a trip. So I was like, thank goodness I don't have that photo anymore. But yeah, it was actually a horrible photo. It was really bad.

But anyways, I gained weight, felt horrible. I remember my mood really changing, like just not feeling happy about life, you know? And one night I was home. I'd just eaten a Chick-fil-A sandwich, no joke. Why is Chick-fil-A so good? I'll tell you that later. And I had a terrible pain in my side. And I called my parents to help, like called my brother first,

and then called my parents to come take me to the emergency room. And the first doctor who saw me said nothing was wrong. I mean, I was in so much pain and said nothing was wrong. We think one of your ovaries is moving. It's no big deal. Take some Advil and go home. Like literally sent me home. So thankfully, my parents just didn't feel right about what was going on and asked me to see another doctor the next morning.

Went straight to my normal doctor. He said that I had appendicitis, was pretty much 100% sure, and that I would need to have emergency surgery immediately. So I was rolled into the emergency room like an hour later. You had surgery. And had surgery. And it was the night, it was so crazy. And you might identify with this since you're single and stuff. But it was a night where I was supposed to go to this party where it's like this huge gala. Everyone dresses up. It's December. It's the holidays. And you donate gifts to kids and everyone like mingles and has a good time. And I really wanted to meet a guy. Right. And

I just remember like waking up from my surgery and knowing that like my friends, some of them were there at that party. I mean, some of them knew that what was happening to me and they were at the hospital, so they missed the party. But just knowing that like, whoa, I'm in my early twenties. I am out of shape. I look like this. I just had my appendix taken out. This is not how I want to live. And I just remember while I was recovering for the next couple of weeks, while everybody else is going out shopping for the holidays and having more parties, I couldn't get up out of bed because it hurts so bad. And my body was so inflamed that it took me longer than typical people to recover from appendicitis surgery or an appendectomy.

So what was happening during this recovery time where you're like, okay, enough is enough? Like, I need to shift something? Or were you still eating bad food? I started to read and I started to remember this information I learned in high school. In high school, I was a top-tiered ranked debater. I was number one in the state three years in a row, got recruited to college to be on one of the top debate teams. I ended up quitting because I listened to advice of people around me that said, you know, you're not going to get a job debating. You need to get something practical, a practical degree. So I listened to them. But one of the year's topic was health care. And health care, I used that information. And you had to debate affirmative and negative of the year's topic.

So it was to determine whether the United States should have a comprehensive health care policy. Interesting. And I just remember how screwed up the health care system was. And I was using that information to win debate rounds, but I wasn't using it for my own health. And it was that kind of like, I started thinking like, oh my gosh, remember that information about the food? Like just started asking questions about how do I get healthy? What are the best foods to put in my body to get back to a healthy body? And I didn't really back to a healthy body? And I didn't really know what a healthy body was, which is really screwed up.

I was like a zombie. I grew up on industrial processed food. My mom and dad did not know how to cook American food because they're both from India. And so they really used the health of Betty Crocker at McDonald's so that we could fit in. And so I had health ailments my full life. I was always on prescription drugs, so I didn't know what life could even be like. You just thought it was normal, that it was something else while you were on drugs. Right. I had no idea it was food. But I

tell you, as soon as I started cleaning up my food, the weight came off, the allergies went away, the asthma went away, the eczema went away. My skin became clear. Skin I never thought I'd have. Right. And you lost the marshmallow face. I did. I lost that face. And I tell you, one of my aunts to this day still can't believe my transformation. She says to my cousin all the time, she says, yeah, I think she had work done. It just doesn't make sense. She says to my cousin all the time, she says, yeah, I think she had work done. It just doesn't make sense. She doesn't look at anything like she did when she was younger.

And I tell you, I didn't have any work done. It was pure just paying attention to my food and making sure that I wasn't eating the chemical garbage the food industry was putting into our food. And I decided to take back control. And that is what created this beast called Food Babe. And I tell you, in this passion, you know, a year before I started the blog, my mother-in-law died of cancer. And when you spend a whole week in a hospital room saying goodbye to someone that you love so much, and I tell you,

my mother-in-law wasn't like the typical mother-in-law that you hear about. She was like my own mother. I mean, she's just a remarkable woman. And seeing her courage and seeing her fight that whole week and being there was the scariest thing I've ever witnessed in my whole life. And so that happened a year before. And then my own dad got diagnosed with cancer. And so my passion for getting this information out just grew stronger. Yeah. And these were food-related cancer? I mean, we don't know, right? We don't know how. Probably not a big effect.

Right. But my dad, I tell you, has not lived a very healthy life. With the food he's putting in his system. Yeah. Yeah. And he's been my biggest challenge. And I tell you, your he's putting in his system. Yeah, yeah. And he's been my biggest challenge. And I tell you, your family's always the biggest challenge. Yeah, exactly. But so I started Food Babe. This was only a couple years ago. Yeah.

And I just started writing about things I was really passionate about. And I started to realize I had a knack of asking questions nobody was asking before. Mike, what were some of the questions? Well, no one had really asked Chipotle, I guess publicly online, what's in your food? You say your food's with integrity, but what's actually in your food? What are the ingredients? No one had done that. Do some of these companies not show ingredients?

I thought they have to show ingredients, don't they? Well, they don't. Or do they hide them? Or it's like really hard to find? They don't. Actually, you know, they don't. Or do they hide them? Or it's like really hard to find? They don't. Actually, you know, they don't. Not all of them do. And so there's big, huge companies like Papa John's who don't release their ingredients

online. However, their competitors like Domino's and Pizza Hut do. Okay. And Chipotle back then, when I started asking the questions, didn't. Right. And thankfully, because of my investigations, they started labeling their ingredients GMO or not. Wow. They started removing some of the bad ingredients, and they're getting rid of the majority of bad ingredients I wrote about, the ones that were very controversial.

When I realized someone as large as Chipotle or Chick-fil-A or Kraft or any of these big companies were listening to someone like me, I knew I could no longer stay at that job. And you started this at the other job that you were doing, right? For a year and a half. And then it started to pick up. And I remember when I first heard about you, it was something about Kraft. Like you basically changed the whole thing that Kraft does now. And I want to talk about that in a second.

But I also saw, I remember you doing a video, like eating a yoga mat and talking about some word that I can't pronounce. And then later, seeing like three months later, seeing Subway come out with a commercial saying they no longer have that ingredient because you were specifically talking about it. And I thought to myself, wow, if one person can create enough of a conversation so that a large company like a Subway or a Kraft or a Chipotle or a Chick-fil-A listens and takes action to change something, I said, that is really powerful. And you've worked in kind of solving a lot of the issues with Kraft, Subway, Chipotle,

Chick-fil-A, and Starbucks and having them change their ingredients. And what was the thing with Kraft? What actually happened? Well, one of the things I realized as soon as I quit my job, which was the scariest thing ever, by the way, because I wasn't, this was a pure passion project. So I didn't know how to sustain myself when I quit my job. And I was in the house and I was sitting here and I'm living in the condo surrounded by the banks that I used to work with in downtown Charlotte and going, oh my God, I have no boss, I have no job, and I'm a food activist now. Wow, this is crazy. I cannot believe I'm doing this. You know, when you're working on a passion project, you know, and you're also

working in the corporate world, you're not putting your hundred percent effort into it, even though it's like kind of taking over your world and your thought and you're sitting at work and you're thinking about your next investigation instead of what you're supposed to be doing. Like that started to happen, but I was still like straddling these two jobs, right? You had to take the leap. Right. And then when you put your 100% focus in something, wow, the doors just start opening. And so the first thing I started to investigate was how food in Europe is healthier than the United States. What has happened is Europe has been regulated on a precautionary principle that these chemicals are considered guilty before they're innocent. Here in the United States, they're innocent until proven guilty. And so in Europe,

there are several chemicals that are either banned or not used or have warning labels. And one of those chemicals is artificial food dyes, yellow five, yellow six, red 40. They don't use any of them there. Or they're labeled specifically with a warning. Well, they label them with a warning. Okay. So they are banned in certain countries. But in the UK, they have a requirement that you have to put a warning label on it

that says may cause adverse effects in activity and attention in children. Kind of like cigarettes, basically. A warning on a cigarette box. Right. But it's a warning on a box of candy or a box of mac and cheese. Like if you were to import a box of mac and cheese from the United States to the UK and sold it in a specialty store, it would have to have that warning. But you know what Kraft did to try to get away without putting that warning?

They reformulated their product without yellow five and yellow six and used real ingredients, paprika and beta carotene, for European citizens, but not for us. Why not? So they found out that there was this health issue associated with especially children. Who's the biggest population of mac and cheese eaters in this country? Children. Children. And to say, you know what, instead of putting that warning label on the box, we're just going to reformulate for them and we're not going to do it for all of these

millions of people in the United States is immoral and unethical. So why do they do that? Because it's a lot more expensive to put the natural ingredients in, I'm assuming. It is a little bit more cost, but in the long run, it's not that much. These corporations are making billions of dollars collectively. So it's really unfortunate that these companies have gone unregulated like this, and it's up for us consumers to hold them accountable. Sure, because if we keep buying, they'll keep selling it to us. That's right. That's right. And so I started a petition and...

Against Kraft. Yes. To remove these artificial food dyes. And I tell you, it was... So you weren't saying don't make mac and cheese anymore. No, no, no. Don't sell us this. You were saying take these specific ingredients out that other countries don't have in their

foods. We should be able to eat junk food without the risk of hyperactivity or cancer because some of these artificial food dyes are contaminated with carcinogens. We should be able to have things without them harming us. And so I tell you, that period of time really changed me because what I realized quickly, the petition got over 200,000 signatures in a week. Amazing. So you posted on your site or online with the petition. Right.

And on change.org. I actually used change.org back then. And they were an amazing partner. And they really helped carry the message. And they really helped guide me, too. I'm like, what do you do? How do you do a petition? And how do you do all these things?

And now, actually, I'm teaching some of those principles in this book. Like, how do you start your own petition? Interesting. Okay. That's really cool. Yeah, there's an appendix in the back. Very cool. In the back of the book.

So what happened with these 200,000 names? Did you say, here, Kraft, like, look at this? Or what was the next step? Well, they continued to be really basically sending us PR, can I say bullshit on this program? Sure, sure. PR bullshit to us. And actually, the story of what happened when I went to go deliver those petitions to their headquarters is the first introduction chapter in this book.

Wow. And it's gut-wrenching. Okay. You know, I don't hold back on how I felt when that was happening. And the really unfortunate thing with Kraft is that they weren't really willing to hear all of these consumers. Now this petition has close to 400,000 signatures still to this day. They're starting to slowly take out the artificial food dyes. They've taken it out for kids' products, and they've taken it out for their deluxe products. And I think they're going to eventually get rid of the rest.

Sure. It's just going to take them some time. But, you know, what's really the most critical point of that petition, what it taught me, is that there are thousands of people really being affected by these issues. Thousands of parents sent me letters. Their kid's asthma went away. Their kid's eczema went away. Their kid's activity improved at school.

Their kid's got off their ADHD medication. Their autism lessened. The symptoms of autism. Personal letters from parents. I actually took those with me, printed them all out. It was a stack this big. Took them with

me to Dr. Oz, the show. And waved them in the air on camera at Kraft. And what happened? Well, that's when I had to go deliver those letters and that petition. And when I was carrying those boxes of signatures, I mean, I really felt the weight of those parents and those children that have been affected by artificial food dyes. And it still remains a problem today and a problem that I'm going to continue to fight for. Wow. That's incredible. What do you feel like has been the biggest challenge with all these companies that you've

been addressing with the artificial ingredients or the ingredients that are healthy? What do you feel like has been the biggest challenge so far? Which company has been the biggest challenge to work with? And which one has been the most enjoyable, I guess, if you been the biggest challenge to work with which you know and which one has been the most enjoyable I guess if you could say that to work with or has been actually willing to listen to you and take your counsel and say okay we do want to make changes what are some suggestions so let's let's start with the positive so a few years ago there was something in my fridge that I had no idea what was in it.

And it was a bottle of Newcastle beer. Everything else, I knew what was in it. But the Newcastle beer had no ingredient list. And I was like, why doesn't it have an ingredient list? And knowing what I knew about the food industry and how GMOs have infiltrated everything. What's GMO stand for, just so people know? A genetically modified organism. Okay.

And have just been... Where scientists have created an ingredient to then go into the food. That's right. It's a new species of plant, basically. That we designed. That's right. It's not from nature. This is in a laboratory.

They inject either DNA or insecticide or some other type of concoction and put it into a seed and then grow that as new. Amazing. Okay. And the problem isn't so much that technology. It's not even about that. It's about the fact that they're paired with an increase in pesticides. So the chemical companies who have developed those seeds are the same chemical companies selling the pesticides. So it's a pesticide issue.

It's really not about biotechnology. It's really about the pesticides. And the pesticides is what is really causing a huge environmental impact in the rise in cancer rates. If you look at the President's Cancer Panel, who independently looks at cancer rates, has said that 41% of us are destined to have cancer. Some of those reasons can be related back to these environmental toxins. With pesticides is one of them. So if it says GMO, does that mean it has pesticides

attached to a GMO? So is the GMO bad or does it just depend? Well, I mean, it is creating new proteins that have never before existed. So it's different for your body to digest and it may react in certain ways. There are certain studies that show different things. And what's really concerning to me is that there's no mandatory safety testing on GMO crops in this country before they're introduced. All the other countries around the world, they have this. They require it or they label it, right?

They either say, no, you can't sell this here or you can't grow this here, or we have to label it so consumers have to know. Or warning, this may cause certain issues. But here in the United States, these companies are spending millions of dollars to prevent their name from being on there. They don't want us to know that genetically modified foods. Think about it. The Super Bowl is happening, right?

It's around this time of year. And think about all of the companies that spend millions of dollars to put their name right there front and center. The biotech companies and the chemical companies are trying to take their name away from this. They're trying to hide this from us. So you've got to wonder, why are they trying to hide so much? I'm interested to know. Cigarettes, they have a big tax on them.

I believe here in New York they have a big tax on them to buy cigarettes. And also they have a big warning label. And a lot of them have people with cancer on them. It says, you will, you know, cigarettes cause death even maybe. I'm not even sure exactly what they say, but there's big warnings on them. But people still do it. Do you think if those warnings were on our food labels in the U.S. that we would still eat it? Just like people are addicted to cigarettes?

Well, the GMO label is not even a warning label. It's just a transparency label just to know what you're buying. I mean, it's like how you know that you're drinking orange juice from concentrate. We should know if our food's genetically engineered. And so when these same food companies did this in Europe, they're still selling food there. It's just labeled there. So consumers should know. So you're more educated.

Yeah, absolutely. So it's not, you know, this is a smart business decision for companies, especially to give them this information. But I tell you, there's something funny going on if they want to hide it so bad. So that's your first kind of, when you start to investigate, you kind of wonder, well, what's going on here? And when you look deeper into some of the studies that have been done, they're very alarming and very concerning.

And now we're seeing the main ingredient Roundup, which has glyphosate in it, in human breast milk, which is a huge toxin. I mean, linked to autoimmune disorders, cancers, all sorts of things. So this is a huge issue. But going back to that Newcastle beer. Tell me about it. I had no idea what was in it. So I was like, why doesn't beer, alcohol, wine, liquor, why doesn't any of it have ingredient labels? Why can't I know what makes this raspberry flavored vodka or this beer? And so I started to investigate because it was the one thing that was in my fridge that I wasn't personally drinking. My husband was drinking. I care about his health and was looking into what

was in there. And I remember going, it took me over a year, almost maybe a little bit less or a little bit over a year to quiz the beer companies enough to even write an article about what I found out about the beer industry. And what I found out was shocking. Most of it had GMO corn added to it. So it's not the basic ingredients of beer, malt, barley, etc. yeast and water. It had caramel coloring added to it so they could use a different kind of malt. Just like Starbucks.

Yes, just like Starbucks. And it had artificial dyes added to it. It had different types of propylene glycol added to it, which is a derivative of antifreeze. There was things that vegan and vegetarian people would be concerned about. Isinglass, which is produced from a fish swim bladder. Carrageenan, which is linked to intestinal inflammation. So all of these things were in beer that I had no idea what was in it. Because it wasn't on the label. It wasn't on the label. So I felt like this needed to change. That blog post, when I wrote it,

went so crazy viral. Millions of people saw it. And I realized that people are really fed up with this. And so I reached out to Anheuser-Busch and Miller Coors. And at first, they wouldn't respond back to me. They gave me the basic mumbo jumbo, sorry, we're not going to release our ingredients. We're not going to tell you because it's proprietary information. But as soon as I did a petition and got close to, I think, 40,000 signatures overnight, they responded. And the first to respond was Anheuser-Busch. And they were, when you ask who was really nice to work with, they were incredible to work with. Wow.

They emailed me right away. And I told this whole story on the blog. So if you look at old blog posts, you can read this story. But they emailed me right away, and they invited me to their headquarters. In St. Louis? Yes. And to learn about their processes. Interesting.

And look at their ingredients and meet their head brewmasters. So, you know, I went and did that on my own diamond dollar. You know, it wasn't consulting or anything like that. I went there, and I met with them, and I've been trying to convince them to develop an organic beer that isn't contaminated with any GMO ingredients. That's interesting. Very cool. Okay. Well, are they taking any ingredients out or are they doing anything different or is

it still the same thing? Are they labeling it? Dr. Well, they are posting all of their ingredients online now. They've slowly started adding all the beers on there. I think they're almost all the way up there. So if you go to tapintoyourbeer.com, I think that's their website, you can see what's in their beer. And some of the things are really bizarre, like high fructose corn syrup in my beer?

I had no idea. I mean, think about all the people who read packages and avoid high fructose corn syrup, and they had no idea that they were drinking it in beer. Now they do. So there are arguments that even organic food is contaminated from rain and the soil. So can you speak about what organic actually means, and is it actually healthy for you if it can be contaminated still without these other, you know, pesticides or things controlling the food? Yeah. So let's just start with defining

organic food. Organic food is grown without growth hormone that's linked to cancer. It's talked about in my book. It's one of the sickening 15. Yes. It's grown without antibiotics, another sickening 15. It's grown without artificial ingredients. The 15 ingredients that wreck havoc on your weight, beauty, and health. That's what you're talking about, the sickening 15. Yes, yes.

So we want to make sure you don't have those. Right. Well, let's just talk about antibiotics for just a second here. So there's this groundbreaking study that Martin Blaser talks about in his book called Missing Microbes that shows that when we have overexposure to antibiotics, whether it's in our water or in our air, or it's given to us, you know, as a child, the overuse of it, like when we don't need it, or sometimes it's passed through meat or dairy, you know, they test for it, but sometimes it's passed. They found that to be the case. We can actually start to change our metabolism for the worse. So we start to gain weight. And

in his book, his research is just groundbreaking when it comes to this. And actually our metabolism starts to change and our gut bacteria starts to change to the point where we can't metabolize fat as much. And so when we have, what did you say? When we put what in our foods? Antibiotics. Antibiotics, yes. Yes, there are some pesticides on organic food, but it's not the really super toxic ones. That's crazy.

And then the other thing that I love about organic food is it prohibits a slew of those artificial ingredients. The azodicarbonamide that was in Subway bread, you can't use that in organic food. Artificial food dyes that were in craft that's linked to hyperactivity in children, can't use that in organic food. So when you buy USDA organic food, you're mostly getting real unadulterated food. The fact that we have to call it organic is kind of sad if you think about it. Because everything should be organic. Right. So when you choose organic food, you're automatically eliminating your exposure to all of those potential toxins. But also, you start to promote the reduction of pesticides in our environment

as a whole. And that has a tremendous impact on our farmland, on the farmer's health, on the children's health, on our water health. You talk about how soil can be contaminated. It can, but I tell you, if majority of our farms were organic, that wouldn't happen as much. Interesting. Man. Okay, here's a question for you. To get a sense of worst case scenario, if you had to make a decision, would you rather eat the non-organic piece of produce or eat healthy packaged food?

Would it be organic packaged food? healthy packaged food? Would it be organic packaged food or what is it? Healthy packaged food or a non-organic piece of like produce, something available. I'd probably eat real food. Real food. Yeah. Because anytime something gets into a package, it's been processed. The nutrients have been diminished. Even if it's not organic. Yeah still eat it. Right. If somebody were to give me, let's say, an apple, a non-organic apple versus a healthy choice frozen meal, I'd eat the apple. Or packaged good. Yeah. I always tend to go towards whole real food versus packaged processed.

Healthy processed. Because as soon as it's in the plastic, it's in the paper. It's already got a strike against it. Oh, and there's a whole chapter in here dedicated to what happens to food that's not even the stuff that is on the label, the stuff that's not labeled that happens to food, that gets in our food and in our bodies. That's really important for people to understand.

Okay. Tell me about your name because your name really means voice. Isn't that right? Bonnie means voice. Tell me about your name, because your name really means voice. Isn't that right? Bonnie means voice. I find it fitting that your name is now coming to fruition over the last few years with you using your voice and with something you're passionate about. Do you find that interesting? Do you feel like this was what you were born for, or do you feel like it's just coincidence? Gosh, that's a deep question.

What's really interesting is that most of my life I hated my name because no one could pronounce it correctly. Am I pronouncing it correctly? Yes. God, we've known each other for this long. Hopefully I'm saying it right. By the way, for the last couple of years. No, you know, no one's been able to pronounce it. And I didn't really grow to love it until I started to really find myself and find my voice.

And it just, you know, my mom, my mom likes to say she planned this all out, of course, right? But I tell you, I think I'm just, I count my blessings every single day that I've been able to find my calling in life. Like why I was put on this earth to try to make a difference. And I hope other people find it too. And in one of the things that I realized very quickly is there's no way if I wasn't taking care of my body and feeling really great and being healthy, that I would have had enough brain power or enough energy to even take on what I'm doing. And even go from someone who was working all day to doing this at night and doing this on the weekends to now doing it full-time all the time and working more than I've ever worked in my life,

harder than I've ever worked in my life. I mean, the last year writing this book, oh, my gosh. I know. And it's just I know I would never be able to do that if I wasn't taking care of myself. And so when I think about teaching the principles in the Food Babe way to everyone out there, I'm really hoping that they get so healthy and so strong in their own body that they figure out what their true calling is. Because I really do think that you should think about what you want to leave, what impact you want to leave on the world. And I tell you,

working in that cubicle and working for those C-level executives at the bank, I wasn't leaving my impact on the world. Now I'm really leaving an impact on the world. I'm trying to get the world healthier, trying to wake up everyone's eyes about what's in our food so that they start to ask questions. I'm not trying to take anybody's food away. I'm just trying to make it the healthiest it can be and still taste amazing and still be the junk food but just without the toxins. And, you know, the Food babe way is not about deprivation. You know, you've eaten with me.

You know I love dessert. I can take you to some dessert. It's about the right ingredients in the junk food or the bad food for you, knowing that you're not putting the worst ingredients in there. Right. That's right. And there's a way to live and not expose yourself to that. And I taught myself the principles and I can't imagine not everyone knowing what I know.

And that's what is in this book. And I tell you, it really shocked me when I started to do some of the investigative material, the new investigative material that's in this book, like finding out what's in the Olive Garden breadsticks, endless breadsticks, pasta, and salad. You know, finding out what's actually in there. My parents' favorite lunch to have on the weekends, you know. It's devastating to find out the truth about what's in this food. But I tell you, once you know that, you can't unlearn it. And that's what I really hope for everyone who reads this book,

is that once you know what's in your food, you can't unlearn it. And that's what I really hope for everyone who reads this book, is that once you know what's in your food, you can't unlearn it. Do you feel that mastering your health and what you put in your body is the first step to being able to then find your voice if you don't have it yet, and then to be able to have the energy to move towards it? I absolutely think that, because I think it all has to do with self-confidence too. Like I tell you, I didn't has to do with self-confidence too. Like I tell you, I didn't have a lot of self-confidence looking the way I looked back in the day. Marshmallow face wasn't confident? It really wasn't.

It wasn't who I was. You know, I feel when I look back at that time, I feel like I was in an alien body. I was like a zombie walking through life. And to think I spent more than half of my life like that, it kills me. And I can't just sit back and watch others not realize their full potential. Because I tell you, I'm not living a life of deprivation. I eat and I love food and I eat all amazing types of things. And but I also feel so good and have so much energy that I'm able to do so much more with my life, but it's about living that long and like really, truly like

having a quality of life, not being hooked up to machines, not being in a nursing home, being able to do that. Not having cancer. Yeah. Not having cancer. And if I can do whatever I can to prevent that, I really want to try. I know it's not 100% preventable because it can be anything. We don't have the answers. But when we know that some of these things can be linked to it, it makes sense to review. Yeah, it's about setting yourself up to win to the best of your ability, making sure you're understanding, you're educated,

you're putting in the ingredients that matter, that we know about at least, and setting yourself up to win. So I've got a couple questions left for you, Bonnie. And the first one is about your approach in getting your voice out there and your message out there. And sometimes I'll share your information on my Facebook page, and I'll have a friend from college say some really nasty things about you. Like they'll say, I can't believe you're posting about her or promoting her information she's the

way she goes about things is negative and this and that and also really nasty things to say and I'm like whoa I'm really taken back because I know you and we're friends and do you feel like and I know you have a lot of people that are against your message and your mission you have a lot of people that are against your message and your mission. You have this huge food babe army that's for you and that supports you and that signs these petitions, but then there are a few people that aren't so supportive. Why do you think these people are not supportive? And do you think there is an approach that you could take, slightly different, to gain their support of you? Or do you think that you don't need their support?

Well, I think the reason why there is so much talk about the food babe, right? They really want to make it about me as opposed to the message. The message, yeah. Trying to take down the messenger. Right. They do. They want to make it about me as opposed to the message. The message, yeah. Trying to take down the messenger. Right. They do. They want to attack the messenger. And, you know, the thing is I'm not bringing up too many new things.

Yeah, I investigate it differently. I find out new things about certain food companies. But the research behind the chemicals is clear. It's from Consumers Union. It's from the Environmental Working Group. It's from the Center of Science and Public Interest. I stand on the shoulders of these experts basically shouting out loud in a consumer-focused way, relating it back to products so that it's not just some weird chemical that they're talking about. It's an actual product.

It's the, you know, it's the Dannon or the, or the Yoplait or the, you know, whatever, the yogurt in your fridge and what's in that, you know? So people are like, oh, well, I have that brand. So let me go check and dah, dah, dah, dah, and let me find out, you know? And so it's a way to really, you know, resonate with the average person who doesn't have time to research all these different chemicals. And, you know, some people are not going to like my approach. I understand that. But I also know that my approach has had a tremendous impact.

And it's starting to wake up food companies for the better. The amount of food companies that changed last year was insane. And they're doing commercials talking about the changes they're making, which I thought was insane. Yeah. I mean, the fact that McDonald's had to hire the guy from Mythbusters to talk about the ingredients in their food in a very open way is a huge change in transparency. I mean, it's still unfortunate that in the United States, McDonald's French fries has

19 ingredients here and only four in the UK. I mean, those other 15- It's just potato. What else could it be? Right, right. But those other 15 ingredients we really don't need. Right. But, you know, things are changing. And unfortunately, there's certain people that want the status quo to stay the same. They're threatened by this message of change. They feel threatened maybe in their work. And I don't know about your friend

specifically. He could be a food scientist or someone who's developing these chemicals or could be employed by one of these food companies. I haven't talked to him in a long time, but I just saw a comment. Or he could have been influenced by some of the factions online that really are working to try to destroy my name and destroy my character. And, you know, the thing is, is I'm a normal everyday person. I'm a citizen journalist speaking out, you know, who is he supporting? Is he saying that the food industry is right for using certain ingredients here and not in other countries for hiding certain facts about their food. No one can argue with that. And that's what's so encouraging for me is that when I think about the work that I'm doing, I know I'm on the right side of the debate. There are two sides to the debate.

Yeah, they're the people that want the status quo to stay the same. And then there are people that want change. I'm on the change side. And I'm leading the Food Babe Army that way to change the food industry for the better because we have to change it. The astronomical rates of cancer, heart disease, autoimmune disorders, ADHD, autism, neurological disorders is through the roof. Learning disorders, all sorts of things, yeah. It's through the roof. We have to do something, and that's all I'm asking. And if the people who speak out against me, if they just use some of that energy, some of that time, and maybe work for positive change, that would really be a good message

to have. I just think about some of the people who spend all day fighting me and writing nasty things about me. And I just think about, like, you know, the food industry has spent so much time and money on these inventions and the science to make their bottom line richer. What if they use that energy and attention and that science to make us healthier? And when we look at these inventions, they aren't making us healthier. healthier. And when we look at these inventions, they aren't making us healthier. There are brand new chemical substances that have been introduced into the food supply very recently, in the last

30 years. I mean, think about it. Congress, when they gave the FDA authority to regulate food additives, there was only 800. Now there's 10,000. And the FDA has admitted they don't know the amount of chemicals the American public is being exposed to. And they know that they can't safeguard us. They admitted this. So we have a huge issue. We need to speak up. How does someone join the Food Babe Army then?

It's easy. What do they do? Come over to foodbabe.com. Sign up for email updates. You're indoctrinated into the Food Babe Army. I'll give you all the resources. I'll send you my top post right away so that you can get up to speed and just start learning about the food industry. And I think this information is really going to change the world. I really feel that way. And Mark Hyman in this book, Dr. Mark Hyman, who's a dear friend. I really feel that way. And Mark Hyman in this book, Dr. Mark Hyman,

who's a dear friend. Who wrote the foreword. Who wrote the foreword. In the foreword, he says, if everyone were to follow the Food Babe Way eating plan, the food industry as we know it would crumble. Because they wouldn't be able to, because people wouldn't be buying those foods, so they wouldn't be able to survive. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So, yeah. So sign up for the newsletter, join the Food Babe Army. Two. Yeah. So, yeah. So, sign up with the newsletter. Join the Food Baby Army.

Two final questions. Before I ask you the last couple questions, I want to acknowledge you for your voice, Fonny, and for risk-taking. You are one of the biggest risk-takers I know, and I know lots of risky entrepreneurs who take risks in business, but you are risking something much bigger. And I acknowledge you for having the courage to use your voice in a positive way and continue to have the courage every day with people attacking you. I think it's really powerful what you're up to. And I want to acknowledge you for that. So thank you. What are you most grateful for recently in your life? Oh, this is an easy one.

So I get asked a lot, you know, what is the biggest accomplishment you've had, you know? And they expect me to say like a food company, like, oh, I got Chick-fil-A to go antibiotic for you, or I did this or I did that, or the Food Babe Army got this company to do that. It's not even about that. And I tell you, we said it earlier, that your family is the hardest to change. And recently, my brother, who was really resistant to my message, was very skeptical of my message in my way of life, has started to make some changes, some positive changes, some of the habits in the food-based way.

And he's lost weight, looks so good, looks better than I've ever seen him and literally just knocked my socks off last time I saw him. And seeing him so healthy and vibrant and happy has been like, I don't know, I'm speechless about it. No, that's really cool. Very cool. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? Letting go of fear so you can be who you really need to be. Honey, honey. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate you. Make sure everyone checks out the Food Bay Way and I'll have it all linked up over on my website. So thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, Willis. Thanks so much for checking out and listening to this episode.

If this is your first time on the School of Greatness podcast, thank you so much for being here. It really means a lot to me. In every episode, it seems like we gain new individuals listening from all over the world, and I'm just so grateful and blessed and thankful. A couple things you can do. Make sure to check out lewishouse.com slash 136

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