The School of Greatness - 17 Top 16 Characteristics of Greatness with Don Yaeger

Episode Date: May 9, 2013

What does it take to achieve greatness? Don Yaeger has been mentored by legendary coaches like John Wooden. He's interviewed hundreds of the top champions in the world and even lived with athletes to learn exactly what makes them amazing. Through his years of experience with these legends, he's discovered 16 common characteristics of greatness. […]

This is episode number 17 with Mr. Don Yeager. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Hey, all you beautiful greats out there.

Thanks so much for tuning in today and listening to this episode. It's going to be a fantastic one because I've got my good friend, Mr. Don Yeager on. And yes, Don is a true champion. And before I introduce our fantastic guest today, I want to do the quote of the day. I said I was going to start doing the quote every time we do a new episode. So I've got a cool quote today that I like. And it's from Muhammad Ali, a man that's known for greatness.

He said, I hated every minute of training, but I said, don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion. Now, this is perfect for me because I am one week away from the national championship tournament for team handball. And for those who've been checking in on me on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, I've been posting pictures and talking about this.

I moved to New York City a couple years ago, about a year and a half ago, to learn a new sport, an Olympic sport called team handball. And now I've got an opportunity to compete in the national championships. I'm on the USA national team, but I'll tell you what, practicing on the weekends and late nights on the weekdays is not fun. It's never been a lot of fun having to sacrifice giving up a lot of your free time to do something you really want to do. But the journey is fun, and it's given me an amazing opportunity to achieve my dreams and go after my dreams. So I am pumped. I'm super pumped. It's in Reno next week, three-day tournament, hopefully bringing home the national championship

for New York City team handball. Big shout out to my teammates. And we've got a great guest today. I am super pumped. He is in the house today with me. His name is Mr. Don Yeager. He's got a book out called Greatness, The 16 Characteristics of True Champions. And he is going to unleash something about greatness that you probably didn't even think about. He's going to tell you his definition and tell you

some of his top 16 characteristics of what it means to achieve greatness. Now, Don Yeager is an amazing individual, awesome guy, and just an inspiration to me. I've known him for a couple years, mostly just we've had a phone interaction and email interaction, but finally get to see him in the flesh today, super pumped. And for those that do not know who Don Yeager is,

he is a seven-time New York Times bestselling author. Now, that's seven different books. In my mind, getting one book as a New York Times bestseller would be pretty cool, but he's done it seven different times, and he's going to talk a little bit about what he's done to achieve that. He was also a longtime associate editor for Sports Illustrated. He's been on Oprah. He's been everywhere.

He hangs out with the top athletes in the world. He interviews them. He writes books with them. So he gets to dive in behind the mindset of what the greatest champions of our time, how they think, how they act, how they live, how they breathe, what they eat, who they hang out with. And he's going to share exactly what it takes to be great on this episode today. So I am super pumped because he's an awesome guy. He's going to share with you some great1, whichever one you want to say. He says, thanks for the inspiration. I enjoy your work.

Great people become great by hard work and applying correct principles. Thank you for introducing me to great people and allowing me to learn from them. I appreciate it, Dan, for that. You are correct. I think that when you have mentors, people that can teach you some things, that's the way you're going to become great. And you're going to learn some great things about that from our guest today, Mr. Don Yeager. I'm super pumped about that.

Also, everyone, keep posting on Instagram or on Twitter or on Facebook where you are listening to these episodes all over the world. We had, who did I see today on Instagram? In front of the Sydney Opera House, I saw Ralph Cooey. I think the last name you say is Cooey. Ralph Cooey posted a pic saying he was listening to the episodes while he was in front of the Sydney Opera House. Pretty cool. Someone else was in the gym today, I saw on Instagram, and tagged me and said they were listening to it while they were working out, getting pumped up. Someone else was in the car. So go ahead and post a picture of where you are listening to this in the world. Tag me on Instagram or on Twitter and say hi. I would love to see what you guys are up to. And with that, guys, let's jump into this week's episode with my good friend, Mr. Don Yeager. How's it going, Don? I am exceptional,

Louis. Thank you very much for having me. Now, Don just flew in from Florida, right? Yeah. You're from Florida. You're here speaking at UCLA. We were going to do this podcast over Skype or the phone the other day, but then I realized you were flying here, and I was like, let's just meet up in person. Right. Awesome.

So I'm glad we got to hang out in my apartment studio. And for those that don't know Don, we connected probably about two, three years ago, wouldn't you say? Yep. All right, and you actually emailed me when we first connected, right? I did, absolutely. Very fascinated by what you do.

I appreciate it. And I remember getting an email from you and being extremely excited because I went to your website and I saw that you'd written like four New York Times bestsellers at that time, I think. Now you've written six or seven? Seven New York Times. I don't know anyone else who's written four New York Times bestsellers at that time, I think. Now you've written six or seven?

Seven. Seven New York Times. I don't know anyone else who's written seven New York Times bestsellers. Actually, I got a really nice letter from the book editor at the New York Times who actually told me that fewer than 50 people in the history of the New York Times list have written seven on the nonfiction list. So it's kind of a pretty awesome – I don't know who the others are, but I'm sure there are a lot of really extraordinary people in there. And then there's me. 50 is still a lot of people.

I would not think that many people have done it. Seven New York Times bestsellers. It's pretty impressive. You also worked at, you were the associate editor at Sports Illustrated for a number of years, correct? I was, absolutely, 12 years. And you were in newspapers and media before then, right? Absolutely, right.

So you've had an amazing career. And what inspired you, after working at Sports Illustrated, to then go into the book world and start interviewing these amazing athletes? You did Walter Payton's, but you lived with him for a while, right? I lived with Walter for the last 10 weeks of his life, yeah. That's amazing. So I had actually written three books before I went to work at Sports Illustrated. In fact, it was one of those books that I think caught Sports Illustrated's attention.

There's not that many writers for Sports Illustrated in the whole world, so to be able to join their staff and to be a full-time employee and to actually get a chance to participate in that community, which was really incredible, right? That's just some of the best, most amazing writers I've ever been in in my life was a great gift. Yeah. The best sports writers in the world, basically, right? They really are. And so, anyway, I had done three books before I got to SI full-time.

And then I joined the staff, was there 12 years. And during that time, wrote a handful of other books. And then five years ago, got a chance to retire and do an early buyout. And I was smitten with the idea of writing one or two books a year if I could. Right. Helping incredible people tell their stories. And then I wanted, as you know, to get out and get the chance to speak more and more often to mostly corporate events. Right, right, right.

Now, what was the first story you thought about writing about? Was there an athlete that really inspired you that you wanted to share their story? Or was that Walter or was it someone else? Well, Walter. Yeah, Walter was my first kind of really interesting breakout book when it came to that. I was already at Sports Illustrated. I had met him a few years earlier, and he was ill. He knew that he was going to die.

I did not, and nor did the public. He had been taken from the organ donor list, and he needed a new liver. He would take it from the list because the disease in his liver progressed to the stage that a new liver would no longer save him. So he was looking to hire a writer, and he interviewed several. Didn't really click, apparently, with those he interviewed. And then one day I was on Oprah, and I was in Chicago to be on Oprah. And the next day when he saw me on Oprah, he kind of remembered our interaction.

But beyond that, he also just saw, I guess, something in me that he liked. And it was enough that he said, would you come be the guy? And so I flew to Chicago and spent much of that last 10 weeks of his life with him, which was really incredible. Did you know he was going to pass away eventually? He told me that first day that I was there. He said, look, I invited you here because it's over. I don't know what that... In fact, there's this long pause because I didn't know how to react. He's my hero. He was 46 years

old. He was amazing. He looks at me and he says, I'm no longer on the list. I had this long pause. I didn't know what to say. Walter, ultimately, he looked at me and he goes, I hope you can ride fast. He was just trying to make me laugh because he knew I was in this awkward state. That was just Walter. He wanted to make you feel comfortable

in his presence. I did. I jumped in with both feet. Basically, moved to Chicago and stayed at his home. With him four or five hours a day, basically moved to Chicago and stayed at his home. With him four or five hours a day, basically? Yeah, as much time, however long he was lucid every day,

I was spending time with him. And it was really, it was incredible. I mean, it was, he believed in me in ways I wasn't sure I believed in me at the time. Sure. Gave me an opportunity that was a game changer. I mean, to this day, I have athletes who say to me that part of the reason they want to talk to me about telling their story is because they worship Walter. And if Walter trusted me, then they could trust me.

Amazing. Amazing. It's amazing how sometimes one interaction like that can really help turn the trajectory. It's part of your career, basically, right? Yeah. It can change the trajectory of your life. Now, did you know he only had 10 weeks? Or was it kind of like… No, we had no idea.

You thought maybe he had six months to a year, potentially. Yeah. I mean, I thought, based upon what he had shared with me, that he probably had three to five months, you know, and did not expect it to happen as quickly as it did. Wow. So. It's crazy. The really kind of interesting thing about it was he was such an amazing guy,

and he had a daughter, Brittany, who was 13 at the time. She's on your speaker reel. Yeah, she's so amazing. She's getting married this summer. Wow. Just got an invitation to her wedding and all excited about getting a chance to go there. But, you know, at the time there were many things that Walter wanted to share with her that he couldn't because she was 13. And he just couldn't say it.

So, interestingly, it became this relationship where he would say them to me, knowing at the right and appropriate time I would say them to her. So I've had this wonderful relationship with both of his children over the years. I was just with both of them actually a couple of weeks ago in Chicago. And I love their family. I love what they stand for. I love what they're all about. And Walter was incredible. And it was on a million levels, it was one of the great gifts ever given to me in my life.

Amazing. That's amazing. Now, you've interviewed hundreds of athletes, I'm assuming, right? Throughout writing and through books and things like that. Who was the most inspiring athlete you've ever interviewed or written about? Inspiring? Maybe it would, I don't know if i would say athlete uh but athlete slash coach john wooden um had the chance to work with coach wooden for the last 12 years of his life and while

he was uh he actually became a mentor we actually entered into a relationship where every other month for 12 years i flew out here to southern california to spend the day learning from coach and he won the what 12 national, what, 12 national championships? He won 10 national championships in 12 years. Unbelievable. And anyway, in those years, all those hours of time sitting there interviewing, talking, learning, mentoring, I mean, John Wood just inspired me to do things

that I didn't believe I was capable of either. So that's the amazing thing about finding the right people in your life, and that was really one of Coach Wooden's most important lessons, is that you will, he used to say to me, he said, you will never outperform your inner circle. You want to know what your capacity for greatness is, what your capacity for success is? Look at the people you have around you,

because you'll never outperform them. And if you want to achieve at a higher level, your inner circle yeah it's interesting and um it really is a it's a great challenge i i find myself all the time thinking about my circle who's in it who who should be in it whether or not some people maybe need to have a different spot in the uh in the circle so what do you do if you've been you know had friends you've had in the circle. So what do you do if you've had friends you've had in the circle for years that you're like, okay, this no longer is serving me or helping me become a better person? Cut that relationship off?

No, you don't necessarily have to cut people off because some of the people, for example, that I had to make decisions on related to my circle are family members, right? And you can't get rid of a family member, right? Let's be honest. But what I would do is I just realized, you know what, rather than the amount of time I was allotting every week to conversation,

maybe it's half that. Cut it back. And what happens with that other time? I'm finding people, you know, that are, you just, you have to govern who you put in that circle. And it's one of those places where your decision-making will impact you greatly. Coach Wooden one day said to me, you show me your friends, and I'll show you your future. Oh, my gosh. What a quote.

Oh, yeah. You think about that, and you start thinking about your friends, right? Wow. That's impressive. Didn't he have the pyramid of success? He did. Triangle of success? He built the pyramid of success? He did. Triangle of success? He built the pyramid of success in 1914.

Oh, my gosh. And he, for many years, just would go on to be able to share it with, excuse me, 1934. But he would go on and he would share this pyramid of success with people for many years. And I love it because you and I talk about greatness a lot. I mean, the top block on his pyramid was everything is built around getting to what he called competitive greatness. And competitive greatness is your ability to be your very best when your best is needed. That's awesome, right? very best when your best is needed.

That's awesome. Everything we do should be about, you know, whether it's preparation or friendships or, you know, or development of skill sets or whatever. Everything should be built about getting us to the place where we're there to do our very best when our best is

needed. When it matters. Yeah. When the pressure's on, five seconds left. Yeah. Yeah. When the pressure's on, five seconds left. Yeah. Yeah. Or when the business meeting requires us to suddenly change the trajectory because it's going south and we can all feel it. Yep. And who's going to step in and be your very

best when that moment's needed? Exactly. The great ones have that capacity. What was his book called again? Well, he had several of them. I wrote one with him called A Game Plan for Life. Didn't he have one that was like a blue book or something? Yeah, he did, Wooden on Leadership. Yeah.

And really, really incredible. Now, you wrote a book with him. I wrote a book with him. Have you thought about writing a book like Lessons from Wooden? No, no. That could be interesting. 12 years working with him? Yeah.

I mean, really, I kind of wrapped a lot of that up in that, because the book that we did together was really around mentoring. Gotcha. Because he was a mentor to me. Sure. And so the first half of the book was a look at the mentors of his life, people who had made him who he was, and the back half were people whose lives he had changed by mentoring them. So you start getting that concept.

You start thinking about the pay it forward nature of mentoring, of true mentoring, right? Right. And I learned a lot about mentoring because I used to think it was showing up at a school and, you know, taking a volunteer arrangement. But that's not really mentoring. I mean, it's nice, and that is nice, and that's a good program. But mentoring is really about living a good life.

If you live a good life, people will notice. Yeah. Not one-on-one mentoring, but mentoring to the masses. You don't have to. Right. Right. And there's a commercial that's been on TV for a couple of years that I've always loved. And I think of Coach Wooden every time I see it, where you watch a guy's getting off a bus,

and he's getting ready to step into traffic, and somebody pulls him back. And then later that day, that guy who notices somebody in a wheelchair trying to get across a curve. If you realize what life is about, it's about a series of paid forward opportunities. And mentoring is the ultimate one. Now, how important is mentoring to achieving greatness? I don't think you can achieve greatness without mentors and without the willingness to mentor others again i think great i think there's a two-way street there yeah like you have to say um who is it that's gonna you know who's

who's collective experience and and uh and mind am i going to tap into and then who am i going to give to sure Sure, sure. Yeah, mentoring has been a big part of my success as an athlete and in business. After I retired, I had no clue what I was doing. But I reached out to a few key people who became mentors and that's really helped shape my business mindset and my attitude towards business. So without mentors, for me, I know I'd be pretty screwed.

And you know, that's really neat. You said something really important there that almost gets passed over sometimes when you say it, because it's so casual. You reached out to them. They're not coming to me. Bottom line is, yeah. And most of us want a mentoring relationship or we long for one, but we don't do what we have to do. And it's our job. If we want to learn from somebody, it's our job to ask. Yeah.

And if the mentor says, I want to mentor you, that's probably actually not going to get the best result. Even if the mentee is like, okay, cool, let's do this. I think the mentee has to really approach the mentor. And in my job, when we had this relationship with Coach Wooden, was every time I showed up, I had to come well-prepared. He used to say to me, the first time you come in and you're not well-prepared, the first time you come in and what you really want are autographs or pictures, it's the last time you get invited. So my job is, you know, if I knew that, so I had to come up with a lesson plan.

Every time I showed, I had to come up with a plan of what I intended to learn that day. And then it was my job, my job to ask him questions and draw from him the expertise of an amazing lifetime. It's not his job to teach you everything you knew and just say, here's what you should do. Right. I had to draw it out. Seek it out. Which meant that every time I had to think, what would be some really, what's something, some nugget that I want to learn? Sure. Could it be, hey, coach, how do you keep the 13th guy on your roster, the guy that's never going to play? Right.

How do you keep that guy engaged every day? Motivated. How do you keep him motivated and encouraging? And how do you keep him from becoming a cancer when he knows he's never going to play? And so to do that, I would prepare myself by going through his rosters and identifying the 13th guy on every team so that I could ask him specifically, hey, how did you, forgive me for doing this, but how did you do that with old Lewis?

Right, right, right. I mean, old Lewis. If I was playing for UCLA basketball, I'd be 13. Old Lewis at the end of the bench house. How did you keep him engaged? Right. So I could ask him specifically and he could tell me about activities and exercises and things that he would do.

That allowed these conversations to become enormously personal and meaningful. Let's switch on to athletes. You've interviewed some great athletes. Who is one of the most inspiring athletes? I know there are a lot of people that kind of go different. Michael Jordan, every time I get a chance to kind of be with him and in conversation with him, he to me is his ability

to mentally change the game is inspiring to me. Yes, he had physical gifts, but he wasn't the first player chosen in the draft. He didn't make his high school team as a sophomore. I mean, there's a million stories out there, and Jordan points to all of them as what he calls logs on his fire, things that he holds on to.

And we all have them. Heck, I mean, I don't know about you. I have a little editorial that hangs on my computer. This editorial was written 20 years ago by a newspaper in Las Vegas that was criticizing me for a project I had written. It was wrong, and it bothered me for the longest time. But today I hold on to it. It's a log on my fire. It reminds me that for all that I – you can look and you can go, wow, what a graced life you've lived. No, I've had moments.

Right, right, right. We all have. Yeah. And the truly great ones use those moments to do something special. And Michael Jordan is, to me, as incredible as anybody. How often do you get to spend time with him? About eight or nine times a year. Really?

Yeah. Where? Just golf tournaments. I mean, I was just with him? About eight or nine times a year. Really? Yeah. Where? Just golf tournaments. I mean, I was just with him a couple of weeks ago in Las Vegas at his event. And, you know, working on a book with him right now because of his power and his passion for Make-A-Wish, the Make-A-Wish Foundation. So, yeah, I would say he's a guy that I find extraordinarily inspiring. Now, why is he the best basketball player arguably that's ever lived? Well, there was the combination of, you know, his ability to be his best when his best was needed, right?

But there was also that he had a mental strength and an ability to, I mean, as almost all great athletes do, an ability to intimidate others just by his presence. And there's something about that. I mean, you know, and we all know those people. We know those people who walk in the room and everybody takes notice. Right, right. Michael Jordan was that guy. And I enjoy trying to get inside the mind of people like that,

trying to understand what makes people like that tick. Now, how do athletes or anyone in business or life get to the point of becoming their best when their best is needed? What does someone do to achieve that, to learn those lessons, those skills? Well, first, I think the first thing that's important, and you said it there too, is that these are learnable skills, right? Most, you know, a lot of people love to think, oh, well, that just was all natural. No, it wasn't.

I'm sorry. You know what? You know, natural does happen to a degree, and there is skill set. I can't play in the NBA, though I'd love to. I'm not going to play in the NBA. My skill set won't allow it. So that's not going to happen. But beyond that, you know, there are a lot.

I mean, what people have done with their skill set is what's so impressive. So it's an understanding of preparation. It's an understanding of what you have to do, you know, and controlling what you can control. So many people are focused on what they can't control. They're bent out of shape about a referee or a call or this or that. Focus on what you can control. That's one of the most important characteristics.

Secondly, I think you look at it and most great winners that I would answer that question by saying they at some stage learned how to hate losing when they love winning. Expected to win. Winning didn't give them the thrill. Sometimes it gives other people. Losing. Losing hurts.

They hated losing more than they liked to win. They hate losing more than they love winning. How do you learn to do that? Remember learnable. We're more than they love winning. And how do you learn to do that? Remember, learnable. We're going to talk about learning here. How do you learn to do that? You take excuses off the table. See, because if you can make an excuse every time something doesn't go your way,

and by the way, you'll never learn from that. Because it's not your fault. Oh, it's the ref's fault. It's his fault. It's the other teammates' fault. Right, yeah. You blame it on somebody. As long as you blame it on somebody, you will not learn.

Jordan, again, great example. He and I were in this conversation about this subject. He had a great line. He said, a loss is not a failure until you make an excuse. And when you make an excuse, and suddenly, you know, guess what? You've just taken yourself right out of a loss is not a failure until you make an excuse. So what is it if it's not a failure? It's a learning experience?

It's a learning experience. Absolutely. A loss is a learning experience until you make an excuse. And then when you make an excuse, oh, by the way, then you've lost any value in it. Wow. This is amazing. Well, Jordan's lost a ton. That's one of my favorite quotes from him.

I've missed more than 3,000 shots. You've seen it. We've all read it. That's great. And he said from him. I missed more than 3,000 shots. You've seen it. We've all read it. That's great. And he said, I've succeeded because I failed. And that's exactly right. So the truly great ones get that. Now, there have to be some people that have the same mindset and probably better athletes than Jordan out there.

I mean, LeBron James is probably a better athlete. Absolutely. He's certainly more physically gifted. More physically gifted. Maybe he's not a better basketball player, but he's a better athlete. Absolutely. He's certainly more physically gifted. More physically gifted. Maybe he's not a better basketball player, but he's a better athlete. Do you think athleticism can beat – amazing athleticism can beat great athleticism with an average mindset? I understand your question. And I think sometimes, but not over the long haul.

Not over the long haul. I think if you are – Over seven game series are over seven game series or over a lifetime, basically, right? I mean, if you were to be, you know, if you were to have amazing athletics, amazing skill set in anything, in anything, but you're not willing to do the little things, the hard work, the preparation, the pieces that kind of grow to allowing you to be successful. If you're not willing to do those little things,

then at a certain stage, someone will figure out your skill. People always do. You get in your head, you won't be strong enough mentally or whatever it may be. Yeah, people figure out your skill. Interesting. So what is the difference between one and two then, the best in the world from the second best in the world? Well, from a practical standpoint, it can be nothing.

You know, I mean, literally you look at Olympic events, right, where the difference between first and second is such a – Tenth of a second or hundredth of a second. One one-thousandth of a second. I mean, you know, sometimes the difference between the two of them and sometimes the difference between first and fourth is, you know, one-tenth of a second, right? And so you either win the gold or you win nothing,

and it's that fraction, right? And it could have just been that day. Yeah, or it could have just been whatever, again, or no excuses, right? Or you could say it could have just been that I didn't do what I should have done. Right. So I think the difference between the first and second on a less practical standpoint. Over time. Over time is a commitment, an understanding that you've got to do common things uncommonly well.

That's what most people don't want to do, the common things, right? They don't want to do the things that make you successful in any business. If you're an insurance salesperson, you know that if you make a certain number of phone calls every week, you have a better chance of success than if you make half that many phone calls every week. The truly great ones make the number, right? They are committed to the common things, phone calls. And they're consistent, right? And they're consistent. They do uncommonly well, right? They are committed to the common things, phone calls.

And they're consistent, right? And they're consistent. They do uncommonly well, right? And that to me is a real, I think has a huge difference between one and two. Interesting. A recent book,

I don't know if it's your last book, but one it's called, I think 16 Characteristics of Greatness, right? Yeah. I've spent the last 25 years kind of asking these great winners a single question, which is if you could pick a characteristic, something that separated you from your peer or competitor, something that allowed you to go from good to great and stay there,

what would that characteristic be? And so what this book is, it's kind of a collection of the most, the answers that come up most often. Sixteen common themes. When those great winners are asked that question. Interesting. Well, number one is, we just talked about it, hate to lose, more than you love to win. Number two is they understand they're only as good as their inner circle,

that they'll never outperform their inner circle unless Coach Wooden. And they're really not in order. I mean, I don't want anyone to think. But number one is the answer that comes up most often. But it's not that number 16 is the answer that comes up least. It's just that they all play into how they live, how they think, how they work, how they prepare. It's a total package.

It's not just one thing. You've got to do all the different things right in order to achieve greatness. And you've got to be very disciplined. Yeah. I say all the time that to me, the one thing about greatness, and I don't know about you as you use the phrase, but the one thing that's interesting to me is that sometimes it's harder to define greatness than to achieve it, right? So it really comes down to my definition of greatness as I write in my book and yours might be different than mine. But as mine goes, one of the most important things is your ability to be well-rounded. You may be able to win 14

major golf tournaments in your lifetime but if the rest of your life is a disaster, then you're a good golfer. You're a great golfer, right? Or you're still a good golfer? I think you're a good golfer. But you're not a great – because, again, I reserve great for someone that's got the package. All around in life. Right.

I like that definition. So I look at people – I mean, I've met a few. I've met a few in my lifetime who have been so extraordinary in one thing that most people would, if you just wanted to focus on that gift, you'd go, wow, that's incredible. But then you meet them and you spend time with them and you realize that they're a train wreck in so many other parts of their life that the greatness is not really the phrase you'd use. For anything else in their life. At least for me right

interesting now you're not referring to someone specific right now are you um i know i mean just well golfing yeah i was clearly referring to uh to tiger woods but you know i think you consider him a good golfer then i think tiger's a good golfer yeah not a great golfer you know again i use the word great sure a great great to me has has a has a more well-rounded um you know has more well-rounded approach to it i think uh you know so i and i guess so i'm not actually defining great golfer i'm thinking great person great great um i'm thinking greatness and i don't and i don't put Tiger in that category. He's not that. And you know what?

One day he might be. One of my favorite quotes of all time is, you know, every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. There you go. So I'm real careful. I don't sit in judgment of people based upon a history. Right. I do want to judge them on what they're doing today. The steps they're taking.

The steps they're taking to it. We should all have a future. Yeah. And we've all made mistakes and messed up. Trust me. I've been there, baby. I get it. Yeah, exactly.

I did an episode previously where, and I've mentioned this a few times, where I've been trying to figure out what's more powerful for athletes, to believe fully in themselves or to believe in their faith or God, and which one gives them the upper the upper hand I guess when they're competing so we talk about I've talked about the power of belief before I had David Anderson out here who played wider seer for the Houston Texans and he's also caught for Tim Tebow a bunch of times and he said it was amazing to see you know the power of his belief in his faith and there's guys, who would I think of like

Metta World Peace maybe or someone like that in the past where all they talk about is themselves. They're very self-centered and egotistical and think that they have the gift. Either way, I heard this in some interview at some point that the best have a belief in something.

Whether it's their faith in themselves, they believe so strong in that that you can't break it. Do you feel like that's true? Absolutely. It's actually on my little list of characteristics of great winners. It's at the very top. It's near the very top.

But I actually believe that it's your ability to have a sense of a higher power. I don't think it's… Really? Yeah. So I think it's your ability to have a sense of a higher power. I don't think it's. Really? Yeah. So I don't. I think it's innate. If you have all these other things working, a sense of self-confidence will come with that, right? Because you have a peace.

There's a peace that comes with. And from peace grows self-confidence. But I will tell you that to me, when I look at those who i would put in this category extraordinary great people faith not always worn on their sleeve like tim tebow you know but faith in a higher power and then that'd be my faith that'd be religion that'd be that'd be what i believe right but they believe something out there is bigger than them, right? Right, right.

And I think that's important. It's created them as, yes. Right, has a role in their lives that's bigger than they are. Interesting. Because I think if, you know, if we become too self-absorbed, if we're too,

if that self-confidence becomes self-absorption, we believe we're the center of the universe. You know what? It doesn't take long for that to crash down around you. You may be able to get to the top, but it's not going to stay at the top. It's not sustainable. Again, back to my definition of greatness.

It's about sustainability. It's about being able to get someplace, stay someplace, where most people can't even get there. What do you think is the biggest thing holding people back from greatness? Is it doubt or fear, or is it something else? I think the greatest thing holding most people back from greatness is it doubt or fear or is it something else i honestly i think the greatest thing holding

most people back from fear or from from greatness is their ability to um to to understand that it that it's available to them that they're that it's capable they don't know it's available most people believe that that's reserved for somebody else right they have a belief that they have a sense that they are, that somehow they're not worthy, you know? And I say this as a guy who thinks about that all the time, right? I think about it all the time. I struggle with worthiness all the time. I look all the time at what I get to do and I think, man, am I really deserving of this? I'm hanging out with Michael Jordan every other month. I'm doing, you know, coaching. You know, you're sitting there going, am I worthy? And so I get it.

I get totally that it's a struggle for most people because I struggle with it. Sure. And each and every time I do that, I have to go back to an understanding that this was made available to me because I did other things right. Right. Just keep doing the other things right,

and it will continue to be available to me. So how does someone get over that fear, that concern that I'm not good enough? Just as I do, right? Just as I do. Say to yourself, make it a point to yourself. You know what? I'm here because I did things to get me here. Right.

To stay here, I got to continue to do those things. And what if they haven't even gotten above average? You know what? But see, to me, greatness is also one of those things that it's different for each of us. Yeah. Right? It's true. My greatness is different than Michael Jordan's.

It's true. Mine's different from yours. Right. But if we're working toward it, and I also, again, a lot of this sounds so ethereal, which is kind of crazy because I'm not an ethereal kind of guy. I want to see something. I want to reach out and try to grab it, right? I want to hold a trophy when it's over. But to me, this understanding of greatness, it's not really attainable.

You'll never really get there because if you do, it's over. It's the pursuit of it. It's the pursuit of it. It's the journey. Right. Vince Lombardi once said that, you know, greatness is not attainable. You'll never really get there because if you do, it's over. It's the pursuit of it. It's Vince Lombardi once said that. Greatness is not attainable, but in the pursuit of it, you can achieve excellence. That's great. I'm about that. I'm about the pursuit of greatness in the hopes of excellence. Interesting. Now, have you ever thought about being a coach? No. No? No.

No? No. I work with my four-year-old son's t-ball team, and that's about as much as I can work on right there. No, I can't imagine. No? Of all those lessons you've learned, you don't think you could make a great team out of it?

I don't know. I don't know. It's not one of those places I've let myself wonder. I mean, I do, you know, for me, it's really kind of more corporate coaching now. I mean, I do end up with a lot of corporate relationships where companies engage me to do more than a keynote. I mean, to actually stay involved and do monthly webinars. You and I were talking about that yesterday. You know, kind of bringing on some other lessons.

So my coaching is more on the corporate side than on athletic this is just as useful um interesting now what um who's the one athlete that you'd like to write for or about if you haven't yet the person you want to meet someone someone's story that's exceptional. Derek Jeter. I'm fascinated by his ability to play at the highest level in the highest media market in the United States, in the world. That much pressure. That much pressure to consistently be not just a top flight athlete, but a pretty extraordinary human being by all accounts. I know who knows him. I've interviewed him a couple of times,

but not in anything other than small group settings. So I marvel at him. I marvel at his ability to do that. And again, to just consistently consistently um do it and without uh without anybody being able to kind of be merc be smirch's character which to me you know i'm not even a yankees guy i don't but again i'm not a big fan of any team i really enjoy people i root for i root for people yeah and um and derek cheater's one of those guys i'll always root for. I hope he comes back, and I hope he's healthy, and I hope he gets to end it on his terms.

Sure. Because you and I both know that in athletics, that doesn't happen often enough. Right. We only got a few minutes left, but what's your thoughts on Kobe and his injury? Do you think he's able to come back and achieve the same level of greatness, or is he kind of –

I think that injury at his age is really difficult, and I think – and you just – you hate that it happened in the most common of moves. Just landing. Right. Whatever happened. Just a takeoff. I mean, he was just literally making a quick jab step to the basket. Boom, gone.

I mean, our bodies fail us. I understand that, baby. Wow. Crazy. Well, baby. Wow. Crazy. Well, what's next for you then? What do you got going on? So I'm finishing this book with the Make-A-Wish Foundation, which is really incredible,

sitting out with the top 25 athletes who grant wishes to children. Wow. It's been incredible. Michael Phelps, Tony Hawk. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. You get to interview All these guys

Everyone I'm sitting down One by one And talking to them About what wish They granted Most affected them What wish they granted

Most changed them Which is really incredible Book comes out this fall It's called Wish Granted And it's really awesome Every dollar in the book Goes to the Make-A-Wish Foundation

Wow And so it's a big Big deal Really exciting That'll be number eight In your time. I hope so. I hope so.

I would hate to think that it doesn't make it because it should. Wow. And then I've just agreed to do my first big non-sports book which is with Stephen R. Covey. His family invited me to write his autobiography. So very excited by that.

Looking forward to telling the life story of one of the most amazing non-sportsmen I've ever gotten a chance to meet. That's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, right? Yeah, Tim. Which is… 41 million books that guy sold. He understands. He's a brand.

That seems like it's a perfect fit for you with your greatness book and writing that. He was a big fan of Coach Wood, so I think they had a lot to do with why I got this chance. I actually got to hear him speak one time on a Tony Robbins event back when I was 16 in St. Louis, he spoke and very inspiring, very powerful message. Absolutely.

Completely. That's very cool. Where can people find you online? Don? Uh, www.donyeager.com. D O N Y A E G E R.com. And, uh, youy-a-e-g-e-r dot com I'm not as linked

or as Twitter savvy or Facebook loved as you but I'm trying. You're using it. I see you out there. You've got a great newsletter that I read every time you send it out. Thank you. Make sure to sign up for Don's newsletter. We actually, if they go to that website, we actually do

I've been collecting great quotes as you've heard me use a few of them here Make sure to sign up for Don's newsletter. We actually, if they go to that website, we actually do. I've been collecting great quotes, as you've heard me use a few of them here. And so I send out a quote every morning to, I don't know how many. There's several thousand people that get it every morning, which is kind of neat. It's a great way to kind of stay involved with a community of people that kind of are looking for a little inspiration. So if any of your listeners are there, I'd love to share a quote with them every day. Go sign up with Don's site and check them out. Look for his new books and I appreciate you, Don.

Thanks so much, dude. Thank you. And there you guys have it. I hope you enjoyed this episode with my good man, Mr. Don Yeager, and make sure to please head over to schoolofgreatness.com

to check out all the different show notes. I'm going to be linking up all the things we talked about here today. You'll be able to check out Don's site. You'll be able to connect with him on Twitter and Facebook and all that other good stuff, and even go see him speak. I encourage you to go check him out and hear him speak in person. Very inspirational guy. And you're going to hear about him for a long time coming. I'm sure you're going to see even a few more, maybe five or ten more books that he's going to write, which will be New York Times bestsellers. With that, guys, if you enjoyed this episode, again, please share this on Facebook, on Twitter. Tag it on Instagram, whatever you want to do.

Schoolofgreatness.com. Leave us your honest reviews over on iTunes, and maybe we'll give you a quick shout out for the review of the week. With that, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode, and remember to make sure and do something great. I began to recognize. That's when we uncover love That's when we uncover