The School of Greatness - 184 How to Become a Better Man with Bill Phillips

Episode Date: June 3, 2015

"I don't want to live like I'm dying." - Bill Phillips If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at lewishowes.com/podcast/bill-phillips/

This is episode number 184 with editor-in-chief of Men's Health, Bill Phillips. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. This episode is with the one and only Bill Phillips, and I'm very excited to introduce you guys to Bill. He is the editor-in-chief for Men's Health, which is the world's largest men's magazine.

And during his time as the brand's online editor, Phillips quadrupled traffic from 2.5 million to a record 10 million monthly uniques. The site has been nominated for three Digital National Magazine awards under his leadership. And he is also the author of The Better Man Project, And he's also the author of The Better Man Project, which is a 352-page handbook for men that delivers 35 key life improvement projects plus thousands of easy, useful tips, recipes, workouts, and world-class science-based advice to upgrade your diet, fitness, health, relationships, career, and much, much more. I'm very excited about this because I got to meet Bill recently at the Rodale headquarters where he works with Men's Health and just had a great time connecting with him. And when we did this interview, I had a lot more fun diving into a lot of the stories that he's talked about from how he's come up with the most inspiring stories for Men's Health through his own health concerns and

issues that he's faced and how he's tackled all these things. The book is incredible. We're going to be talking more about that here in a second, but let's go ahead and dive in with the one and only Bill Phillips. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about today's guest because he is a legend in the health industry. His name is Bill Phillips, and he's the editor-in-chief of arguably the largest men's health publication, which is called Men's Health. And thanks so much for coming on today. Thank you, Lewis. And not arguably.

I think we are the biggest men's magazine brand in the world. In the world. Okay. In the whole world. And how is that, that's all by subscribers or by readers or how does that calculate? You know, by pretty much every metric.

There's readers, subscribers, newsstand sales, advertising revenue, international footprint. By every measure, we're bigger than any of the competition. So if you're in the fitness world and you want to get on a cover of a magazine, men's health is like the Holy grail then. It is. Yes. And you know, what's interesting is that, you know, for men's health has been around

for 27 years and for the first, you know, 2020 probably we didn't really, uh, do celebrities on the cover. We mostly were doing models. And then we kind of moved to a celebrity cover, athletes, actors. But then last year, we decided, you know what? Like Men's Health has always been a magazine about the readers, for the reader, it's about the reader. And, you know, these guys we put on the cover, yes, they can teach our readers a lot, but so could readers. Readers can teach each other a lot. So we launched a cover contest last year called The Search for the Ultimate Men's Health Guy. And last November, we put our very first reader ever on our cover. And that gentleman was Noah Galloway, who I bet some of your listeners know.

He's sort of become a bit famous. He just finished third on Dancing with the Stars. He's the new face of Kenneth Cole Mankind. So, you know, he's gone on to do great things. And do you think because I remember seeing that cover and do you think because he was on the cover, it helped him get to the next level in his career, getting on Dancing with the Stars and the modeling jobs, things like that? No doubt. I mean, Noah's story is amazing. He served our country in Iraq. He was in a Humvee accident. His Humvee was blown up by an IED and he lost an arm and a leg.

And when you look at Noah and he has a prosthetic leg and he doesn't have a left arm and you can see what he went through and immediately you want to know his story. But what's really interesting about Noah's story and what really, really sold me on making Noah the ultimate men's health guy is he wrote in his essay that he came back, he went home to Alabama, and he became really depressed. He was not treating his body well. He was drinking. He would go days without leaving the house. And about five years after he got home, one day he looked in the mirror and for the first time he saw not what he'd lost,

but what he had left. And what he had left, he wasn't treating well at all. And that's really for us where his story sort of began for our readers because Noah, he joined the gym and he went at 2 a.m. because he was too embarrassed to go when other people were there. And he worked his body back into shape. And it's the transformative power of fitness.

There's just nothing like it. If you can change your body, you think you can do anything. And Noah is proof of that. And I think that's why his story resonates so well with everyone. Wow. It's kind of like understanding the cards that you were dealt, And Noah is proof of that. And I think that's why his story resonates so well with everyone. Wow. It's kind of like understanding the cards that you were dealt, not wishing you had a pair of aces, but doing what you can with the pair of twos, I guess. And that's what we try to do every day, right?

And sometimes you don't get twos or you don't get aces, but you play your twos and you come back the next day and hope you have some better cards. Exactly. And it's all about becoming a better man. And I'm excited to talk about the book that you have, which is called The Better Man Project. And it sounds like it's a perfect fit with the story of Noah, right? That's his name, Noah? Noah Galloway. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So why did you decide to write this book, The Better Man Project? And is this your first book? This is my first book. There is, I should say, another Bill Phillips out there in the fitness industry. He's written Body for Life. I'm sure your listeners know that Bill. And I'm just like him, except he's a little fitter and richer. I've met Bill. He's a nice guy. I've met Bill. He's a nice guy.

He's a great guy. Yeah, absolutely. This is my first book. Why I wanted to write it, it was a few things that came together. I've been at Men's Health for 12 years now. When I came here, it was sort of a two-year experiment. I came from popular science. I was a technology writer. I wanted to do more general interest, immense general interest. And so for me, I was thinking of men's health as, you know, a stepping stone to something, you know, bigger and better. What I didn't realize until I got here was that, you know, men's health is truly a stepping stone to a bigger and better life. And, you know, I tell the story,

you know, when I have two daughters, they're 12 and 9. And when the younger one was probably like 5 or 6, she came across my corporate ID card, which was the original one I got when I got here in 2003. And she said, she looked at it, she's like, is that you, daddy? And I was like, yeah, that's me. She didn't recognize me. And the reason is, you know, I was probably 15, 20 pounds heavier. You know, I had a bad haircut. I had, you know, I was wearing glasses.

And these days I'm thinner and fitter and I wear contacts and I have a decent haircut and my clothes fit. And, you know, and I didn't, there was no, like, that all just happened. Like, it wasn't like, you know, like it just happened. It wasn't like it orchestrated. It wasn't like I read something and said, okay, let me go off and try that. It just seeps into your consciousness. Men's Health is a magazine that on every page, every page has something that can improve your life.

And you do one little thing, and then that opens you up for the next little thing and the next little thing. And before you know it, you've become a different person, a better person. And, you know, what I, what I wanted to do with this book was sort of like try to capture all that information, all those, those tips and all the advice that we've given and talk to our experts, our advisory board and collect their thoughts and try to like create the definitive guide to being a better man and, you know, defined as you want to define it for yourself personally. You know, if that means, you know,

fitter and stronger, that's in there. If that means living healthier, living longer, that's in there. If it's being a better dad or a better, you know, husband or boyfriend, that's in there. So I tried to hit the entirety of the spectrum in terms of how men want to improve. And one of the former editors of this magazine used to say, we don't have problems, we have story ideas. And that statement really captures just the wide ranging editorial sort of philosophy of men's health. We're here to improve any aspect of a guy's life, and nothing is off-limits. What do you mean by story ideas?

Well, in other words, as an editor here, if I have a problem, that's also a story idea for the magazine because other men are having that problem too. And, you know, some of the best journalism that we've ever done at this magazine, the, the stuff that's won awards for us,

national magazine awards for us, they've been, um, they've been personal stories written by editors on staff of, of something they've, they've gone through. Um, because it's where,

you know, it's where the passion comes from and, you know, where there's passion, you know, there's, there's great journalism and, you know, so, so yeah, anything, anything that any of us is going through, uh, is fair game to, to write about in the magazine. Gotcha. Interesting.

Now I want to, you know, you talk about the, the, the seven biggest killers of men and talking about having an all-star health team, which I want to cover here in a second. But I'm curious, how did a nerdy, glasses-wearing, unfit guy go from popular science to men's health? How did they decide to choose you, not being a specific health, let's say, guru at the time, to running a health-focused magazine? Well, it is pretty interesting. I was hired as the managing editor back in the day. So the managing editor, even though I was the executive editor at Popular Science, an executive editor anywhere,

an executive editor is somebody who runs the day-to-day editorial operations of the magazine. The managing editor is somebody who plays a support role and really makes sure that everything gets out on time, that it's on budget, that everything's correct, we don't miss our press dates, that sort of thing. So they hired me for a role that didn't require health or fitness expertise. And that was fine.

I was really good at that aspect of my job. And what I needed to do and what I knew I would do when I got here was prove to them, once I learned the magazine, prove to them that I did have journalistic chops in the areas that they cover. And so what's interesting too is we have a long history here of really trying to play to people's strengths. So I had a lot of background. I mean, there was obviously medical science at Popular Science. We did a lot of technology.

I brought some of that into men's health for the first time. So we do an annual tech guide, and we do it sort of unlike anybody else does technology. And that was something I brought with me from PopSci. But yeah, so that was in 2003. I've been here 12 years. I was promoted

to editor-in-chief about two and a half years ago. So it took me nine, ten years to get to the level I needed to be at to run the brand. And it's been a great journey. I've learned a lot. It's an incredible team here.

I've had great mentors and, you know, so here I am. And were you guys the biggest men's health publication when you started or did that happen when you were there? No, you know, I think we probably were, I don't know, some of our competitors like GQ, we probably were, I don't know, some of our competitors like GQ were probably about the same size back when I started. But under the former editor-in-chief, we grew.

We've been growing. Every year we would grow bigger and bigger. The industry, obviously, magazine industry, has gone through a lot of change over the past five years. Newsstand sales just across the board have been hurt just because of the smartphone. We're competing with the device in people's pocket these days. And obviously the economy has hurt advertising in terms of

industry-wide. But magazines are alive and well. People are still buying them. Advertisers, they still want to be part of men's health because we've never been more relevant. There's not going to be a time when 1.8 million men in this country are like, you know what, I'm sick of that. I'm sick of being healthy. I'm still feeling good about myself.

I wish I could be a little fatter. Nobody's ever going to say that. So, like, we will remain relevant. We've never been more relevant. And I think that the brand's growth trajectory will continue. And as we get into more digital stuff and events and actually actual physical gyms, you know, our footprint is going to expand in different ways, not just in terms of a print product.

What do you think has been the key to your growth over the years in maintaining that? I think, you know, we, I think our singular focus on the reader is like our secret. I mean, you know, there's no ego in our magazine. There's no me in our secret. I mean, you know, there's no ego in our magazine. There's no me in our magazine. Like every page of that magazine is trying to serve the reader. We put them first. And because that is the culture here and the philosophy here, I mean, we're very sort of, we're very like service-driven publication. We're very customer service-driven publication. You publication. I try to read and answer every reader email. I don't always succeed.

But it is incredibly important that readers have that personal connection with the magazine. It's their magazine. It's not my magazine. So I'm here to serve them. So I feel like it's my duty to get them the information they're seeking. That's not my magazine. So I'm here to serve them. So I feel like it's my duty to get them the information they're seeking. That's cool. Yeah. I'm

a nerdy. I nerd out on this stuff with the business, the marketing, the growth. So it's always interesting to see how things continue to grow to me and what makes them successful. So thanks for sharing some of the magazine stuff. But I want to talk more about the

seven biggest killers of men because I started reading about this. And I realized if we can eliminate these seven killers, we could really become better versions of ourselves in all areas of our health and lives. So can you talk about what these seven big killers are or maybe what the biggest is? maybe what the biggest is? Well, you know, it's heart disease, cancer, stroke are what are the big three, the man killers that you hear about. You know, it does vary by age. So, you know, actually among young guys, it's accidents, you know. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's, you know, up until I think, you know, your early 40s, you're most likely to die by accident, a car accident, doing something silly on a jet ski. So that is fundamentally the biggest thing that kills young guys.

And the most sinister accident-causing thing we have in our possession right now is our phones. If you are texting while driving, you're four times more likely to die than if you just put your phone down and drive. And so that's the tether we need to break. And obviously, driving under the influence is huge. And most people think immediately, well, that's if my blood alcohol level is 0.08 or 0.01 depending on the state. But they've done studies where your reaction time slows like 20% after one drink.

You know, it's, it's just, yeah, it's just, it's, so it's, you know, and, and we've all, we all have a drink and then get in our cars and we think we're fine. Because we're not at that, at that 0.08 level. But the reality is just one drink makes us a worse driver. So, you know, those are the, those are the two biggest things that, that, that cause accidents. You know, and then also among young So, you know, those are the two biggest things that cause accidents. You know, and then also among young guys, you know, sadly is the number two, actually, I think up until age 35 is suicide. And, you know, so those two categories are extremely preventable.

And, you know, a magazine like Men's Health, the book, The Better Man Project, these are tools I think guys can use to kind of like get this information to get help if they're depressed because these are all preventable deaths. Sure, and a lot of the things for me, when I think about being preventable, I think about having a team around us and a supporting staff or a supporting crew. And you talk about building an all-star healthcare team. And so I want to

talk more about that. But for me, I talk to all my entrepreneurs who listen to the show, you've got to have a business coach. As an athlete, there was never a time that I went into a competition without having a coach there by my side, either as an individual athlete or with a team. So why would I go into life, into relationships, into business, into, you know, my health without a coach and a supporting staff as well? So why do you think we should have an all-star healthcare team? And is this realistic for the average man? Yeah. So let's talk about that for a little bit. Let's unpack that. I think, you know, the first member of your all-star health team, you know, and the one that you have to be in touch with the most is yourself.

You know, you know your body better than anyone. You know, so just like knowing how you feel, being in tune with how you feel and being aware of anything that changes is the primary thing that, you know, will keep you healthy, you know. And when you know yourself, you know how you feel after you eat, you know, a number four from McDonald's

and you know how you feel when you have a salad. And that difference, and if you're, you know, in tune with that difference, you're going to make better food choices. You know, if you had a crappy day at work and, you know, you go work out for 40 minutes, 30 minutes, you're going to walk out of there like, you know, so satisfied and feeling so good about yourself. You know, it's the natural stress reliever. It's the natural mood lifter. And if you remember that, and you will, the next time you have a crappy day or feel bad

about yourself, you're going to think, oh, I know the cure for that. Let me go do some pushups. Let me go do some planks. So that's the primary thing. And then I think it's important, we always hear about the primary care physician, and I do think it is important for guys to have a primary physician.

I think it's important for guys to have a relationship with that person so that the physician sort of has an idea of, you know, a baseline of, you know, who you are, what your family history is, so that when you do go in and talk to them about things that they have some background that are not kind of flying blind, you're not filling them in on everything that, you know, has ever happened in your family or in your life. So I think, you know, that's somewhat critical. Obviously, you know, you need to have a dentist.

I think as a guy gets older, you need to have a cardiologist or a urologist and then even older still a cardiologist. I think, you know, it's interesting if you think about like the most, you know, biggest cause of death among men is heart disease. And it is, yeah, and it is, I mean, just across the board, right? So, but it is not, it's not something we really go like, we go out of our way to like. Check up on. Check up on, do preventative steps, get a stress test. Like we don't seek out cardiologists and have some of these tests. And, you know, at some point after age 50,

especially if you have a family history, it's really, really important that you have a cardiologist, your primary care physician can refer you and just have some of these tests or at least have a conversation. Because, you know, especially if there's a family history there, because it's just, you know, unfortunately, I forget this precise stat, but the first symptom of a heart attack for, I think, a third of people who have them is instant death. So, you know, you don't want to play't want to, you don't want to play around with that one.

How important is family history and understanding it? You know, it's, it's, it's so important. And yeah, no family history. I mean, so, listen, you know, my, I have a family history. One of the other inspirations for this book was on my dad's side, there's a long history across generations of strokes. And, you know, my dad passed away in 2000. He was 59. He was very young. Yeah.

So he, in his mid-50s, he'd had a small stroke. It was minor, but it threw his balance off. It threw his vision off. And honestly, he couldn't do the things that he loved to do, so he became really, really down. And so here was this guy who had looked forward to retiring. Oh, I would say for two decades, he ran a small general store in Western Pennsylvania and worked 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

and saved enough money to put me and my two sisters through college. And when I graduated from college, he would have been 51. A year or two later, he sold the store and retired. And his plans, he had a big list of what he was going to do. He was going to go to Australia with my mom and he was going to buy a Lexus because he always wanted a Lexus. And a couple years passed and I would call,

Dad, what are you doing? Sitting on the couch. Are you reading? No. Are you watching TV? No. What are you doing? He literally was sitting at home doing next to nothing. And it was because he'd had like,

he was having these minor strokes, one or two, and they were changing, literally changing his sort of brain chemistry. And he was becoming very depressed. And, you know, both of his uncles kind of went through this in their 50s and 60s. His mother, at the time when my dad passed away, his mother was in a nursing home.

She had had a stroke in her early 60s and she was in her 80s then, but she had no quality of life. She didn't really even know anybody. So I saw this happening to my dad in 2000. Actually, it was 1999. It was late 1999. He met one weekend.

My wife's parents, we were just dating then. We had just gotten engaged. Came to visit my sister. My parents came down. And so my parents and my wife's parents got to meet for the first time. That was on a Saturday. The next day, my dad and mom went back to their place in Western PA, and he went out to get the mail, and he was walking up the steps with the mail.

And, you know, we don't know exactly what happened, but he somehow fell backward down the steps, hit his head, and had massive brain damage. Oh, man. Life fluttered him to Pittsburgh. You know, I was living in New York with my, you know, now wife and fiance. You know, my sister called, told me, you know, it didn't look good to get out there as quickly as I could. And, and, you know, he passed away two days later. And, you was three, three and a half years before Men's Health called.

So I knew of this family history. And one of the things I wanted to do, not long after I started at Men's Health, was figure out what that was about and if it was something that I need to worry about. And I wrote a story in 2005 called Hunting My Father's Killer, which was nominated for a National Magazine Award. I was speaking earlier about some of the best journalism we do.

You know, it's personal. And in his autopsy report, the pathologist had written all these things that he noticed in my dad's brain. And he wrote – there was a statement at the bottom that said, these symptoms are – I forget the exact word. But these things are symptoms of but not diagnostic of cataclyl, the word cataclyl. So they were in, like this disease called cataclyl, but not a diagnosis of cataclyl. And I was like, well, what the hell is cataclyl? When I saw that, I was like, what is that?

Well, so that launched me into this search, hunting my father's killer, which is this cataclyl disease. Well, what I found was cataclyl is actually a fairly rare genetic disorder that causes blood vessels to kind of like get very brittle and can

kind of constrict a little bit. And when that happens, like, you know, it can lead to tiny little bleeds in the brain or even blockages in the brain. And that leads to sort of a dementia. And that's what my dad's uncles have had. They kind of like slowly went downhill. His mom slowly went downhill over 10, 20 years

because of these little bleeds. My dad, unfortunately, fell and hit his head and caused massive bleeds, and that's how he died. I mean, he might have been with us still if it weren't for that. But this disease kills in a very sort of sinister way, and it just kind of slowly takes your personality away and slowly takes your life away.

But what was interesting when I was researching the story is, you know, at the time my dad died, there was not a test for it. When I wrote the story, there is a test for it. And so, you know, I wrestled with like, do I want to be tested? Because there's basically 50% chance I could have this. There's no cure.

Been talking to the experts, you know, they pointed out that, you know, I had, you know, aunts that lived into their 90s and 100s and then had a stroke. You know, I had uncles who lived just as long and then they might have had a stroke. So, you know, one aunt in particular was an avid swimmer her whole life, and she died when she was like 98 or something like that. And they were like, to me, they were like, that's what's missing in the genetic testing. It's like, yeah, you might have a 50% chance of having this someday,

but nobody can tell you how long you'll live if you eat well and stay healthy and exercise. Because that's really what's going to decide, you know, in the end, if this thing gets you. So that sort of, you know, that redoubled my resolve to stay fit, stay healthier, you know, suck everything, all the knowledge I can out of all the experts we talk to about everybody I work with. Because there is, something's going to get us all. And in my family, this might be the boogeyman.

So what can I do to distance myself from that boogeyman? And that's how I think every day. Right, it's so fascinating. So did you end up taking the test? No, I didn't take the test. You know, it's interesting. I might still take the test someday. In my family, and this is something geneticists wrestle with. In my family, I've had a couple cousins take the test. Neither of my sisters nor I have decided to do it. And the reason is there's no like quote unquote cure. So if you know you have it, then it's like you're wrestling with this inner demon all your life of like, when's it going to happen?

When am I going to, you know, would that be more stressful? But then the other side, if you realize you didn't have it, would that create peace of mind? Right. And that is exactly the conundrum that I think about every day. That's a challenge. But it's a challenge. So, you know, I don't want to live like I'm dying.

I don't want, and this is why my story kind of ends with this decision not to get tested. And, you know, like, I don't want to be looking over my shoulder. You know, I just don't. I want to live my life. I want to live it as fully and completely and as passionately and as energetically as I can. And I just kind of know myself too.

Like, you know, you don't want that in the back of your mind. Like, what was that? Did something just happen to my body? Is this a headache or is this something worse? You know what I mean? I just don't want that in the back of my mind. And the reality is I also, if

I'm free and clear, I don't want to backslide and do whatever I want. That doesn't mean I can start drinking a bottle of wine. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. But, you know, I have two little girls and they deserve the right to know, you know, if this exists in our family so they can make their own decision. So there is going to be a time when I'm going to have to decide whether to do it or not.

And, you know, certainly if there's, if there's, you know, some sort of treatment that is showing promise, I think that would be the time that you would do it. Because if you then know you have it and can get it treated, then that's a whole different decision, you know. But just like, you know, people who have Huntington's disease in their family,

which is 100% fatal, often very young, are often advised, those people, to not be tested for it. Because then that's all, it's sort of like a death sentence in their own mind and that's just not how people want to live. Yeah, and one side of the, you know, what should we be testing for? Because, you know, my entire life I've, a lot of the times I don't want to go to the doctor to get checkups or do anything. Cause I'm like, I just don't want to know if anything's wrong, you know? But on the other side of things, like if you allow something, you know, so you have like a skin

issue or something and you allow it to continue to get worse and worse, then, you know, it could really cause some harm long-term if you don't get it checked out. And if you don't get, you know, you know, if there, because maybe there are some preventative things you could do or some things to reverse it. So when do you know what to test for that's going to serve you and what not to test for, I guess? Well, I think, you know, if you're having symptoms, any sort of symptoms, then you should have it checked out. I mean, you know, the reality is, you know, treatment has come so far.

I mean, skin cancer, when caught early, especially, you know, basal cell, which is the most common one, you know, it's almost 100% curable. And, you know, you don't want that to turn into melanoma, which decreases your odds tremendously. And the screening tests that any dermatologist can do for you today, they're so good and the biopsies are so quick that they can tell you right away if there's something

that you should be worried about. I mean, I think, you know, another one like colon cancer, for example. Colon cancer has such a family history tie-in. If you have a mom or a dad who's had it, chances are you're going to get it. Chances are. But, you know,

you don't get colon cancer unless there are polyps. And polyps take a decade to turn into cancer. So if you have a family history, it makes sense then, go get a colonoscopy, get the polyps taken out. And we have a contributing editor whose mom died very, very young from colon cancer. And he started getting colonoscopies in his late 30s.

And he goes every two years. And every time he goes, they take two or three or four of them out. Like they grow back so quickly. What he's doing though is literally saving his life. Absolutely, 100%. This would kill him if he weren't getting it looked at.

Another one of my editors here has had probably 12 basal cell carcinomas taken off of his face and body. That's a slow-growing cancer and it may or may not get him in the end, but the reality is he's cancer-free because

he took the time to go get that suspicious mole checked. I think if you have any symptoms go, anything looks mole checked. So, you know, I think if you're, if you're, if you have any symptoms go, you know, anything looks, looks weird on your skin, go. Like there's just so many things that so many screenings now that, you know, can really, really get ahead, get you, get ahead of the cancer and get it out of you before something, you know,

goes really, really wrong. Do you, do you recommend trying home remedies first or just go right to the doctor? You know, I think it depends on what it is. Sure. You don't need to go to the doctor to get a wart taken off. Right, right, right. There's plenty of home remedies

that will take care of that. Sure. But I just don't think there's a lot of downside going to the doctor. I just, you know, even your dentist, yeah, you're like, why do I need clean teeth? You know, my teeth are fine, et cetera. Yeah, but your dentist is also going to fill your neck and fill inside your mouth for any sort of bumps or, you know, any sort of lymphomas that you might otherwise not, you know, know about. And, you know, we did a feature about five years

ago. It was called Men's Health Saved My Life. And it literally was, it was readers who, who told us just, and we, we noticed these emails coming in over a period of months, you know, and it was a guy who read about, you know, um, the symptoms of a heart attack. And then when he had one, he knew what it was and he got to the doctor right away. And it was like stories like that or just something they read and they thought, God, I better get this checked out. And sure enough, you know, we motivated them to get help and it quite literally saved their life. So, you know, like when in doubt, you just have to go. It's a pain. I get, you know, who wants to go? But it could save your

life. It literally could save your life. And what you feel like an idiot if you don't go and it turns out it was something that was really preventable. Yeah, exactly. What are the symptoms of a heart attack? Well, you know, any sort of numbness, particularly on one side, obviously chest pain. I should start there, right? But any sort of, you know, numbness, you know, on one side or the other is a symptom, you know, change of vision, headache can even be a symptom, fatigue, you know, so the big one is the chest pain and then the numbness too. Those are the two things that you should run to your ER if you have that. Okay. Now, depression and low self-esteem, in my mind, aren't typically things that are discussed about among men. What are some suggestions for men struggling with depression or low self-esteem?

Yeah, you know, this is an interesting one, too. You know, I could sit here and say the easiest cure for depression is exercise. And it is true. Studies have shown that even 20, 30 minutes of exercise will boost your mood. But that'll fix it temporarily. I think that'll treat the symptoms. But ultimately, you need to get, you need to talk to somebody. You know, whether it be, you know,

and you can start with a friend, you can start with a parent, you can start with a girlfriend, a wife. But like that, you know, depression is not a problem that's going to fix itself. It's not something you're going to talk yourself out of. You know, and there's a difference between sort of, you know, if you're clinically depressed and you have suicidal thoughts,

I mean, that's, you know, versus the bad day, the kind of, you know, quote unquote depression. I mean, obviously those are different things. But you do need, you need to talk to somebody. Obviously the medications for depression are very, very good and they do work. They absolutely do work and there's no shame

in asking for help. I think that's really ultimately with guys, with men. I think you and I both could probably attest to it. There's something about ourselves that we're too embarrassed to share with others. It holds us back.

We don't want to seek help. We don't want to tell our spouse about it or our significant other. So we hide layers of ourself from everyone. And it's important to know that this doesn't mean you're broken. If you are depressed know that like, this isn't, doesn't mean you're broken. Like if you are depressed or have low self-esteem, it doesn't mean you're broken. If you have erectile dysfunction or, you know, which is another one guys are afraid of, it doesn't mean you're broken. These are, these are medical issues that can be treated and can be fixed.

And, you know, you, you can't, you can't just will them away. You can't just like pretend they don't exist. There's no shame in asking for help. And I was at a doctor, I was at Johns Hopkins about a year ago, and I love that facility. It's such a great institution. And I got to meet with a bunch of different doctors. I was in the liver center, the pancreatic center, radiology, and a few others. But I

met this guy, this doctor who runs what they call the Men's Vitality Center at Johns Hopkins. And I was asking him, I was like, men's vitality, what's that mean? He's like, it's sexual health. It is the place people come to when they're worried about the quality of their erections or, you know, whether they're pleasing their partner or, and he's like, we call it men's vitality

because it's not, men are afraid of that. They're not afraid to say to their spouse, yeah, I have an appointment over at the men's vitality center because it's positive. It's like, oh, you're going to be more vital?

Fantastic. He doesn't want that, right? Right, right. So it's like even, even, you like even the medical institutions are kind of coming around to like coaxing men. Come on in. It's okay. But the thing he said to me is, and he's like, there's nothing you can tell me about how your body's working that I haven't heard before. And men just have to get over that fear.

Just like I have, my older daughter is going to be a teenager this year. She's in middle school. And there are those days when, you know, she comes home and gets off the bus and she wants to sit in her room. And I know something's not right. And I know it's something probably that happened at school. And she doesn't want to talk about it.

And I always say to her, it's like, we've lived through this. We've been through this too, like, honey, like we, there's nothing you can say that is going to be something we can't relate to. And, and as a, as a, as a guy going to, to see your doctor, there's nothing you can say that he hasn't dealt with before and hasn't heard before. You don't have to feel ashamed about it. Yeah. You do not have to feel ashamed to it. You do not have to feel ashamed to it. Especially something like depression, which is

really takes not just the joy out of life, but it can also kill you. Even if you don't, some people obviously decide to take their own lives, but it'll kill you in other ways too. The research around happy people, I think happy people,

generally happy people live on average seven years longer than generally unhappy people. And that's just brain chemistry at work there. And that can be switched with the right treatments. What do you think is the most important thing to focus on or the most important factor when it comes to men's health the most important factor when it comes to men's health i think it's a really good question lewis you know because there's there's a lot of them there's a lot of factors yeah is it the emotional side of things is it the uh you know the exercises the you know what is it you know it all i feel like it all works in concert.

And I think the most important thing is to take a step, to take one step. Whether that step is having a conversation about something you're upset with, with your significant other, or have a hard conversation with an employee or your boss. you know, significant other or have a hard conversation with an employee or your boss. You know, but I think doing something to fix, you know, an aspect of your life you're not happy with today will lead to more steps tomorrow. And I think it's that first step. I think, you know, it's one of the sort of things I say in the book is that, you know, like we all sort of know like the man we aspire to be. Like, it's like I can, you know, I can look at a thick guy on the cover and say,

ah, I wish I was that guy. Or I can see, you know, the super cool guy who's holding court, you know, at the, you know, at the bar or in front of, in a public speaking situation. Or I can see the guy with the cool house and the Porsche in the driveway, or, you know, the awesome family and the beautiful wife. Like however you define success, like we can see like what we would like to be,

but we can't see all the steps between who we are today and that guy who we wish we could be more like. And, you know, so as a result, we don't take any steps. But what men's health has taught me is you just need one step. And I talk about my corporate ID card when I was 20 pounds heavier and didn't look like myself. I didn't come in to work that day and say, crap, I need to change everything.

I went to our fitness director, Adam Campbell, and I said, this is actually kind of funny. I did say, I think I need a personal trainer. And he said, no, you need five minutes. You need five minutes. And I was like, no, I got to lose the swing. He's like, listen, I'll give you a five minute workout. You do that in your basement.

Let me do it for a week. Let me know how that feels. And it felt great. And you know what? As soon as I did five minutes of exercise, I wanted to do 10, 15, and 20. And that's where my personal transformation started with those five minutes that he told me I needed. And I also, there's another guy here at the office, Peter Moore,

who's the number two here now. And I was- I think I met Peter, right? Yeah, I think you did. And it's funny because I was talking to him about sort of like my diet and I was in the cafeteria around the same time and I would get my coffee and I'd put my four sugars in. And he was like, he's like, you know, the ladder to leanness.

That's what you need to adopt. The ladder to leanness. It's like, well, what is that? He's like, all right, three and a half sugars tomorrow. And do that for a couple of days. Then go three. Then go two and a half. Then go two.

Before you know it, you won't want sugar in your coffee. And you know what? You know, probably within a couple of weeks, I didn't want sugar in my coffee. Interesting. I've never put sugar in my coffee since. I used to drink three Cokes a day. I haven't had a Coke. I think I've treated myself once or twice in the 12 years since.

Wow. But I can remember a time sitting, you know, in front of the TV at night after my daughter, my oldest daughter was in bed before we had our other one. And, and my, my, my snack before bed was Coke and, and Oreos. And it's like, like, I can't fathom that. I can't fathom. What's the snack now? Um.

Apples and almond butter? Yeah, you know what? It's like, I, I honestly, I like I honestly I don't really snack at night you know after dinner it's pretty much I do enjoy a nice glass of wine at night with my wife and again that's another

tradition that is relatively new because you know when I got this job promoted to editor in chief in the fall of 2012, I'd worked my whole career to achieve the editor-in-chief spot at a major magazine. This is what I wanted. This is what I dreamt at since I was a college student in the School of English at Penn State. in the School of English at Penn State.

And I was prepared, I thought, on a lot of different levels, but it still was just such a dramatic change in terms of like... Really? In terms of like the weight of the world is on your shoulders, it feels like when you first start. It's like you've been entrusted with this multi-million dollar brand, the biggest men's magazine brand on the planet. I'm the fourth editor-in-chief in its history. Legends have had this seat, right?

No pressure. No pressure, right? And oh, by the way, the economy is on a downturn. So what are you going to do to turn it around? Yeah, and the print industry is in trouble. It's dead. And everybody in the world now suddenly needs your time and your focus and your attention.

It has a question for you. And so I was used to sort of leaving work. I mean, I've always sort of been sort of plugged in to work with a smartphone or whatever 24-7, as they say. But this was a whole different level where I would get in at 7.30 and leave at 6.30, and I still had 100 things to do. And I wasn't used to that. I wasn't used to letting people down by not giving them an answer.

I wasn't used to not deciding on something right away because I really wanted to think it through. Those were things I'd never done before. I made my name and my reputation was, he's smart, he's decisive, he's good at what he does. And suddenly, I was not decisive because I had so many things to decide and it was nerve-wracking because so much seemed to be at stake.

And so I was never leaving my job. Even if I got in my car and drove home, I wasn't paying any attention to my kids or my wife. And if I was, I was faking it because in my mind, I was still at work and I was trying to solve all these vexing problems that I'd never faced before. And it was a bit of a dark time for my wife and my relationship because we, you know, just a few short months we had grown, we grew apart. And coming into, you know, 2013, that January, as a couple months into this job, we both recognized that, you know, this was not, this is not the life we wanted to

live. This was not a track that was sustainable. We needed to make time for ourselves and to connect as a couple. And one of the things we did, you know, it seems incredibly simple, was just, okay, when the kids are in bed, we're together, no TV, no phones, we'll enjoy a glass of wine together and we'll talk and catch up on our day. And maybe read or something like that. And so instead of every night, which was get the kids to bed

and then I was back on email and she was whatever, watching TV or playing an iPad game or planning the next day's school lunches or whatever. Immediately, that instant changed. You know, all the lights were off, kids were in bed, we were in our bedroom, and just connecting, just being together, just spending time together.

And immediately, it felt better. And so, you know, that was over two years ago, and that's still the so, you know, that was over two years ago and that's still the tradition, you know, because that might be the only hour we get to the top that day. And, you know, both my kids are in a million activities. They're crazy travel soccer players. So like we really don't, weekends are often taking them, you know, one girl to one soccer game another girl to another soccer game and we don't really get a ton of time together

as a family so we try to capitalize on it as much as we can and that simple change just turning off the TV and putting the smartphones out of the bedroom and I think the glass of wine was key too Louis, I do let you relax a little

it is and we both look forward to that moment every day still key too, Lewis, I do. Right, sure. Let you relax a little. It is. And we both look forward to that moment every day still. That's cool. You know, it's a small change that made me a better man. And I write about that in the book too, because it's a small thing. But some small things can have big results. Sure. You reminded me of the show House of Cards, where they have a cigarette at the end of

every night and talk about how they're taking over the world together. It's probably a little healthier with a glass of wine. It's always red. Yeah. We want to get the antioxidants. There you go. I like it. Well, I got a couple of questions left for you. This has been great so far, and there's a lot more in the book that we'll talk about here in a second, but a few questions left. One of the things is, what are you most grateful for recently? You know, I am so grateful for, oh God, you know, I'm so lucky, Lewis. I do, it's a cliche to say I'm the luckiest man alive, but I feel that. You know, my kids are amazing. My kids are amazing. My wife has sacrificed her career so I could have mine.

I work at a company that promotes health and wellness, is trying to improve the world, and wants its employees to have healthy, happy, full lives. I have a boss who supports risk-taking and Maria Rojdel herself, who owns the company, and that family, they support risk-taking. I'll go off the rails and they'll let me do it so I can learn the lesson. And I learned the lesson and I immediately come back on the rails.

And it's such a healthy work environment. And the team I have around me are just incredibly supportive come back on the rails. And it's such a healthy work environment. And the team I have around me are just incredibly supportive and just open and honest with me. Nobody yeses me. I think it's important as a leader that you have people around you that tell you when your ideas are stupid.

Because we all have stupid ideas. I think that we don't recognize them sometimes and it's important to have people that you empower to be truthful with you. You can still say, no, I'm doing it my way. But I don't want people around me to just say, that's a great idea when I know it's not. Because the creative process is, for me, the most exciting part of this job.

If I could sit, outside my office we have, outside my office, we have couches and some leather chairs and that's where the team gathers to brainstorm things. If I could do that 10 hours a day, that's what I would do because we come up with the best ideas of sitting around talking with each other and the team is just really creative. They've

embraced that process. So like, you know, I'm just, I'm grateful for this life I've led. I'm grateful to my mom and dad who worked so hard in a little tiny store that sold penny candy in newspapers, you know, so that me and my sisters could go to college, which nobody in our family had done.

So like, you know, it's the love and support of, of everybody in my life that has led me to this spot. And it's never lost on me that, you know, this wasn't my doing. Like I, I, I benefited from the support and help of others. And all I, all I want to do is make sure that I can give some of that back to them. Right. That's very powerful. Thanks for sharing that. So let's imagine for a moment, for whatever reason today, everything you've ever created got deleted and every magazine you ever wrote in was gone and your book is no longer around and everything is gone that you've written about. And I ask you a question, what are the three things you know to be true about life and everything you've learned?

What would those three truths be about life, everything you've learned up till today? Well, okay, so the first truth is that I would say everything that actually matters to me, I would still have. And, you know,

that is my two kids and my wife really ultimately strip everything away. They're the only things that matter. That's from a family perspective. From a professional perspective, you know, I'm a big believer that talent always rises. And so, you know, anytime I've ever been passed over for a promotion, for example, or I didn't get a job that I really wanted,

and I remember one guy, an art director at Popular Science, told me this once because I was, I think I was trying to get the executive editor spot and I didn't get it the first time and somebody else got it. He said, Bill, it doesn't matter. You still have your talent. And so talent always rises.

So if you're good at what you do, you will find your way because nobody can take that away from me. The fact that I can write and edit and I'm a creative guy, nobody can take that. That can't be deleted. That's inside me. So no matter what would happen professionally,

I would create something new. And I can create it from scratch because that's what I have within me. That's my gift. And the third thing, what is the third thing? I don't know. thing, what is the third thing? I don't know. The third thing is I think that, you know, everything is an opportunity. I do, I'm optimistic that way. So I would probably mourn that deletion for about, you know, an hour or two. And then I would start, and then I would start seeing, I would start seeing as an opportunity. And because, you know, I could create something on my own

and maybe start my own company. And maybe I'd make even more money. Maybe I'd touch even more lives. And I would immediately move to that more positive place. I really don't have much time for negativity in my life. I don't sort of tolerate it, um, from my staff or my kids, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a useless exercise. And so, so when I go, when I go negative, it's really quick and then I'm out and, uh, and you know,

I'm more focused on taking the steps forward, not looking behind me. Sure. I love it. A quick thing I want to read about your book. You say here that any successful journey starts by taking the first step and it's often the hardest. The Better Man Project opens with a collection of easy self-tests toself plans inside, each leading you to the destination of your choice. Lose 10 pounds, find your abs, lower your blood pressure, dodge diabetes, be more attractive, beat back pain, fix your posture, simplify your life, save $10,000, be a better dad, and much more. So again, make sure everyone checks out The Better Man Project. If you want to learn about any of those things, I highly recommend it. I'm looking at it right now and it reads like a

magazine and it looks like a magazine inside. It's really cool how everything, you can flip to any page and learn something interesting. And I want to take a moment, Bill, to acknowledge you for the 12 years of your dedication in bettering yourself at Men's Health to learn about all these personal things that have happened to you and share with the results on how to become better for all of us men out there in the world. So I really appreciate your wisdom, your expertise, your constant battle of becoming better yourself and sharing that with the world. It's making a huge impact. Thank you, Lewis. It's a huge pleasure to talk to you. I'm a huge fan of yours as well. I appreciate it. And I have one final question and it's what is your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness

is trying to be better today than you were yesterday. And that's all I aspire to do every day when I wake up is just make it a little better than yesterday. And you know what? There are going to be days that aren't as good as yesterday

and it sets you back. But if you just try to take one more step every day, you will achieve greatness. Bill Phillips, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you. And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, make sure to head back to the show notes to get all the links and information we talked about from this episode at lewishouse.com slash 184. Again, big thanks to Bill. Make sure to check out his book, follow him online, and stay connected with him and

his journey at Men's Health. Thank you guys again for coming on. Make sure to connect with Bill online. Check out Men's Health. Check out the Better Man Project. And the episode is lewishouse.com slash 184. Share it with your friends. Share it with a guy friend who you think would like this and you guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you. Thank you.