The School of Greatness - 205 How to Run a Business While Being an Olympic Athlete with Nick Symmonds

Episode Date: July 22, 2015

"There is only one thing it takes to be successful: perseverance." - Nick Symmonds If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at http://lewishowes.com/205.

This is episode number 205 with Olympian and USA National Champion, Nick Simmons. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Very excited about our guest today.

His name is Nick Simmons, and I just got wind of him and learned about him a few weeks ago when I was watching the USA Outdoor National Championships where he won the 800 meter. And it was incredible to watch him start in last place and come from behind in the last 150 meters. And I actually found out that I actually competed with him 10 years ago at the National Championships, Division III National Championships in 2005 where I was competing as a decathlete. And he was competing in the distance events. He is a seven-time NCAA champion at Willamette University Division III school. He's a six-time USA outdoor champion at the 800, two-time world champion finalist, 2012 and 2008 Olympic team member,

third fastest American ever in the 800-meter dash. He's broken many other records. He's an incredible guy. And one quick fact about him, he is 99.9% faster than the entire population. Pretty cool. He loves all things outdoors, hiking, mountain climbing, fishing, hunting. He grew up in Boise, Idaho, and we had an incredible conversation talking about what it means to be one of the best in the world, what it means visually, mentally, emotionally, physically to give 110% at one vision, one goal for decades, and how to stay consistent over that time and continue to get better. Even when the doubt creeps in, when age creeps in, when your body starts to wear down,

how do you stay consistent and how do you live your life at such a high level to achieve that? Also talking about some of the entrepreneurial things that he does as an athlete, seeing as on the USA team, no one really gets paid anything. So how he's been able to build his own brand

and make a full-time living through creative entrepreneurial ways. I'm very excited about this episode. Make sure to head back to lewishouse.com slash 205 to get the full details about how you can connect with Nick over on Twitter and Instagram and everywhere online. Also about his companies that he's involved with, his sponsors, and all that other good stuff. So make sure to check him out. Follow his journey. Again, share this with your friends if you enjoy it over at lewishouse.com slash 205. And without

further ado, let's dive into this with the one and only Nick Simmons. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about today's guest. I just become aware of him about a few weeks ago when he won, I believe it was the national championships, the USA national championships in Oregon in the 800 meter. And we've got Nick Simmons on. How's it going, Nick? I'm good, guys. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I'm very excited. And before I dive into your fun facts, I got to see if we might have actually competed on the same track a decade ago. Really? Now, I'm trying to see if we're in the same time. You were born in 1983, correct? That's correct. I was born in 83. And my senior year, I decided to go back.

I was a football player. And my senior year, my whole career, I wanted to be an All-American athlete. I played Division III football. I broke a world record one year, and I didn't make it that year. I was like, you know what? I can't do it in a team sport because we weren't good enough. We didn't win enough games for me to really get that credibility. I said, you know what?

I'm going to try the decathlon and see if I can be an All-American. I trained for six months in the decathlon, and I went to a Division III school. And I was at the – Which school were you at? I was at Principia College, a very small school in Illinois. Okay. And in 2005 – And I would imagine that your senior year, you would have been in Wisconsin-Oscar for nationals? It was actually in Waverly, Iowa.

So I don't know if that was the same year you were there. But did you go train there? It was a long time ago, yeah. So I was class of 2006, so I think we were probably right around the same time. Okay, cool. So 2005, I was at the national championships. You won that year, I think. Because you won every year.

Yeah, I did. So you were at that meet in Waverly, Iowa, your junior year, I think. Because you won every year. Yeah, I did. So you were at that. It was 8 and 15. Yeah, so you were at that meet in Waverly, Iowa, your junior year, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So were you class of 2005 then? Yeah. I was 2005, and I vaguely remember seeing that race in the 800

and seeing you just demolish people. And I think you might have broken a record or something. I loved going to a D3 school. It was cool, right? Yeah, you went to Willamette, right? Where is that? Yeah, Willamette. We say it's Willamette, damn it.

Willamette, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious now. So we've actually probably run into each other at that event, or we were within like 20 yards of each other at one point. So it was cool to kind of like track back and see when, you know, that you went to a D3 school and that we competed together.

Well, if you were a decathlete, you were a real athlete. I just run around in circles. But decathletes, I always had the utmost respect for because you have to be good at 10 different events. It's not an easy thing to do. Well, that's the reason why I did it because I wasn't great at any one event. So that for me was the only way I could make All-American because I was good at high jump and I was good at the 100 and things like that. But I was not All-American or national championship class. So for me, I put it all together and just grinded it out and made it happen.

Nice, man. Congrats. What a great story. Thanks, man. But you've got a great story. And you were one of the top high school athletes in the 800 and the 1500. And you decided to go D3. And I'm curious, why did you decide to do that? that were super competitive with states like Florida or Texas or California. So D1 coaches were looking at me, but they all said,

hey, you can walk on our team. We'd love to have you. But for me, I really wanted to be a student athlete, and I wanted the student part to come first, and I wanted to have the full college experience. So rather than being an indentured servant at a D1 program, like a lot of coaches were asking for, I thought, why don't I go to a D3 school where I can have a job and major in chemistry, which is what I wanted to study and run when I feel like it and not run when I don't. So I was a part of a fraternity as well, the Sigma Chi.

And I really feel that, you know, choosing D3 allowed me to have that, that real true college experience. And I, you know, at the time there were some frustrations, you know, with the athletics, but ultimately it allowed me to practice winning and save my legs for my post-collegiate career. Wow. So do you think if you had went to a D1 school, you would have been too burnt out to continue training for the last 10 years? You know, it's so funny. It's hard.

I think about that sometimes. No. If I'd gone to a D1 school, maybe I'd have gotten burnt out, or maybe I would have accelerated at a faster rate and signed a bigger deal out of college. I think you can torment yourself with the what ifs. All I know is that I'm 31 now. I've made two Olympic teams. I'm just so ecstatic with the way my life has turned out so far.

So I'm just very appreciative for everything that I've had so far. It's amazing. So I'm just very appreciative for everything that I've had so far. It's amazing. So you graduated in 2006. So you made the next Olympics in 2008 and 2012. Is that correct? That's correct. That's amazing. So did you know when you graduated in 06 from a D3 school that, you know,

really the next year was kind of like the qualifying year. So 2007, I believe, was the qualifying year. Did you think that you had a chance? Were you on par in the top? Did they only take three athletes from America, or what did they take? Yeah, so in each event, America takes three athletes. So I knew when I graduated that I'd have to find a way to be top three in America in either the 8th or the 15th. And fortunately, I think it was the day before, right after graduation, I went to the U.S. Championships.

And I went in ranked maybe 30th. 30th. You know, through some smart, 30th. But through some smart racing and quality tactics, I set a huge personal best at my first U.S. Championships and came out of that ranked second. Holy crap. And so that's kind of what launched my career. I graduated with a degree in chemistry and i was on pace to go off to medical school but i decided to table that for a couple years to really

put all my energy into training for the 2008 olympic games and that second place finish kind of validated everything that i was doing i just thought to myself if i can just stay here i don't even need to improve i just have to be consistent over the next two years then i'll achieve my dream of being a u.s olympian and i was actually able to improve and finished first at the U S Olympic trials in 2008 to make my first Olympic team. And then, you know, when you do what,

when you made one, you want to come back for more. I only made a semifinals in Beijing. So I had a new goal of training for four more years and making the finals in London, which was, which is what I was able to do. I finished fifth in London,

but again, to be that close to metal, you want to come back for more. Two people. I know. I'm a decade older and I'm still doing it, but my goal now is to make the 2016 Olympic team and finally get that medal that saluted me. And you just won the national championships in Oregon, correct? That's correct. Yeah, my sixth U.S. title. And is that the qualifier or is next year, or what's the qualifier for the Olympic

team? So that was the qualifier for this year's World Championships, which will take place in August in Beijing, China. I'll have to go through the same process next year to make it 2016 Olympic team. So every year you have to try out again for Team USA. It's a rigorous process where they take the top

32 athletes or so and narrow them down to their three that they'll actually ultimately select for the team. And it all comes down to one race. It's not like... One race, man. Yeah, it's unforgiving. You have to show up on the day and you have to perform. Otherwise, you wait for more years. I remember I interviewed Brian Clay, who's

a decathlon gold medalist. Oh, I know Brian well, yeah. Yeah, and he, you know, the last Olympic trials, he didn't qualify during the Olympic trials. I think he got injured or he slipped or he missed one of his marks on something, and he didn't even get in top three or didn't even finish the two-day event. The trials, yeah.

It's heartbreaking because you could be the best all year, but if you don't show up on that day, you don't go to the Olympics. Oh, I mean, you might be the best in the world. You could be the world record holder, but if something don't show up on that day, you don't go to the Olympics. Oh, I mean, you, you might be the best in the world. You could be the world record holder, but if you, something happens, you get tripped or you're food poisoning or something, something out of your control. Again, you wait four more years for another chance at it.

So it's really cruel and brutal, but it is, but it's the only fair way to do it in a country like the United States. So we have so many great athletes, you know, there might be 10 or 15, 20 in an event that all deserve a chance to go. You have to find a fair way to select that team. As cruel as it is, this is the way we've decided to select it, and I think it is pretty fair. It's fair, yeah.

And it gives the underdogs a chance. It gives people who may not have a chance to say, hey, if I show up today and I'm strategic like you've been many times, then maybe I can come from behind and make it on the team. Maybe I can get third or something. So I'm curious now, what is your mindset approach when you go into a big race? Does it differ from race to race or do you have the exact same approach? Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, especially now at 31, I'm appreciating that even more is that there's only so many efforts that you have in your body. I can only, we call it going to the well, you know, digging so deep and finding that extra little bit of adrenaline or that little bit extra energy or soul that you can burn up there. You can only call on that so many times. So, you know, if I'm in an exhibition race or a race that's really more training oriented than in a championship setting, you know, I can race at 95% effort. But I know that when it comes to a championship race, you know, U.S. championships or a World League or Olympics, that's when I save everything I got. And I'll, you know, bleed to win one of those.

So an exhibition race, you'll go at 95% and you'll still win at that race? Or do you just not really? Not necessarily. No, sometimes I get my butt kicked. Okay. But if it's a race that I think I can win without expending too much energy, you know, coming from small schools, from Boise, Idaho, for the Lambda, I learned to get through some races expending as little energy as possible

because when you're a small school, when you're basically a big fish in a small pond, it breaks you pretty hard. So there might be weekends back in college where I'd run four or five times in a weekend. So I learned to expend as little energy as possible and ultimately become a great championship runner and really save those few efforts that you can call upon

for your A plus 100% efforts for when they really, really matter. great championship runner and really saved those, those few efforts that you can call upon, um, you know, for your a plus a hundred percent efforts for when they really, really matter. So, you know, case in point was the 2015 season. I hadn't won a single race all year and people had kind of ripped me off and said that I was too old to win us titles anymore. But when I got to the U S championships, um, you know, the increased level of focus, the increased level of professionalism, and just knowing that my body had been waiting all year to find out what it

really had, um, you know, had in my legs, I was able to call upon that one more time and ultimately win my sixth title. That's crazy, man. Yeah. I remember I just watched the, uh, the race again before we got on the call and I, you started out from the back of the pack and you, you know, after the first lap, I think you were in fourth or something. And then, or maybe it was in the last 300 you you know after the first lap i think you're in fourth or something and then or maybe it was in the last 300 you're in fourth and then the last hundred you just crept around the corner and passed three more guys and one by like three yards or something is pretty inspired

i mean how does that make you feel when you're in the back of the pack almost the whole time um yeah a little bit panicked to be honest you're like 10 15 yards behind the front and people the front. And people watching, you probably thought I was injured, but, uh, no, I, I've always, I always say you kind of got to play the cards you're dealt. And I don't have the same kind of top end speed that some of my competitors do. So instead of running huge positives, differentials, um, you know, some athletes will go out and run their first lap four or five seconds faster than their second lap. My laps need to be much closer together. four or five seconds faster in their second lap.

My laps need to be much closer together. So I ultimately, um, end up trying to run pretty even splits, but, uh, it's funny. It looks like I'm, it looks like everyone else is slowing down and I'm just accelerating,

but really I'm, I'm just not decelerating. You're just staying the same pace as everyone else. Yeah, exactly. But it usually puts me in the dead last, uh, after the first lap.

And then I have a lot of work to do to get around people. So Jason pointed at the 2015 championships. I think I was probably like you said in six or seven with 300 to go. And it kind of peered around the corner and shook my head knowing how much work I had to do. But if I just take it one step at a time and say, you know, move from seven to six here and then move from six to fifth here. And, and ultimately in the 800, I feel that if I can be on the leader's shoulder with a hundred meters to go, seventh to sixth here and then move from sixth to fifth here and and ultimately in the 800 i feel

that if i can be on the leader's shoulder with 100 meters to go then the then the real race actually begins and you can see the finish line of the crowds on their feet cheering you and um that's when the adrenaline just really peaks in your system and you find the superhuman strength that can carry you you know down that last 100 meters even when every fiber of your body is telling you to stop. And it's much harder to sustain that top end speed. If you go the first lap, right, it's much harder to keep it all the way through the last 200. If you've already put your maximum energy in the first lap and a half. So it seems. Yeah. And if you look at most splits, the athletes are actually slowing down every single 200 slightly. So it's not uncommon for your fastest 200 to be your first 200 and

your slowest 200 to be your last. It's just about, you know, trying to maintain form and propelling yourself forward despite the fact that lactic acid and fatigue is just gripping your muscles. How much of a mental game is it for you before the race, whether it be the night before, the morning before warming up? Are you talking to the other competitors? Are you not talking to them? Are you in your own zone? Do you get in their head some way or do you just focus on your own game? You know, everyone's a little different,

but certainly the mental aspect of it's huge. Having done this for, again, almost two decades now, I've learned what works for me. And for me to perform my best, two decades now, I've learned what works for me. And for me to perform my best, it's almost tricking myself into thinking that it's no big deal. And even before an Olympic final, for example, I do everything I can to take my mind off the race, whether that's watching crappy TV or reading a good book or just chatting with

my family. I want to think about the race as little as possible because it just gets your heart going. And that adrenaline is something that you need to save for the race as little as possible because it just gets your heart going. And that adrenaline is something that you need to save for the race. So I try to keep my mind off it as much as possible. About an hour or two before I start warming up, I'll allow myself to do some visualization exercises and really imagine myself in that race and imagine different scenarios taking place and how I would respond to them. And then, you know, once you start warming up, you can really, really start, you know,

allow yourself to embrace that sense of competition coming, you know, that fight or flight, you kind of embrace the fight a little bit more. But again, I know a lot of athletes, especially young athletes that beat themselves before the races even started by, by wasting that energy. I have done that so many times in high school where we would get ready for like a state championship in basketball or football, big playoff game. And I would hype myself up for the whole day in school, like wasting all my energy where the game came around.

I had nothing left to give and I was exhausted. Yeah. I know it happened. And it happens more often than not. Yeah. That's tough. It's kind of like, you know,

when you see, you've seen bolt, it's like, he's just playing around. He's just like so relaxed. Um, and then he's able to turn it on. If you look at the starting line of an Olympic final like that, you've got Bolt who's clowning around and for him that works so well because it allows him to just let his body do what it does. You know, he's just letting his mind get out of the way. Whereas for other athletes, you'll see them extremely serious and extremely focused on the line and they had, they need to

do that as part of their preparation. So it's funny how, how different every athlete is. And you just really have to find what works best for you. When did you, was there ever a big mistake where you extended too much of your energy where you realized, okay, I've actually got to just not think about the race at all until an hour before? Yeah, when I was younger, I had a real hard time channeling my energy and saving it for when it counted. And it's gotten better and better as I've aged and put things in perspective. And there are actually situations now where I'll be getting ready to race and I won't have any nervous energy or any adrenaline.

And I have to kind of like remind myself how big, how important it is. I have to hype myself up now. And I'll be listening to, you know, music that will pump me up and chewing on some run gum and getting myself fully caffeinated and trying to amp myself up for the, for the fight. Cause at this point I've seen so much and I know how, how important or unimportant certain events are, but sometimes you need that. I mean, I know I need that adrenaline to perform

my very best. So it's a lot about just channeling your energy and being the best athlete that you can be on that day. It's like a dance. It's like you got to know how much energy, when to bring it out of yourself. It's like you really got to dance with it so you don't expend too much. I mean, again, like a quarter of a second could be a tenth of a second. You could lose it all. You know, it could be the difference between. I mean, most of our races, yeah, making the team or not is separated by less than a quarter of a second. It's an unforgiving sport in that way.

But if you are one of the athletes that has learned how to really control your energy and meter it out through rounds and in the race, that can definitely be a huge advantage. What's your favorite race? Event or actual competition? The event, yes. Definitely 800. I do have a love for the miles because most people don't really know what an 800 meter is, but they say, oh, well, what's your fastest mile? And so even though my 142.8, 800 times is much more competitive than my mile best, if I say I've run 356 for the mile, that seems to register with people a little bit more. Right, right.

Man, that's insane. 356 for 1600? For 1609 meters, actually, a full mile. Oh, my gosh. 356. Yeah. That's insane, right. Man, that's insane. 356 for 1,600? For 1,609 meters, actually, a full mile. Oh, my gosh. 356. That's insane, man. I ran in the decathlon in the 1,500, I think, my best. Again, this is after two days.

It was like a 454 or something like that. Good running, though. Yeah, it's still a good running. That's slow for 1,500 compared to what you're doing with another 100 meters. That's crazy, man. 356. That's hard for, I mean, that's slow for a 1500 compared to what you're doing with another 100 meters. That's crazy, man. 356. That's crazy. But 142 is insane.

What is that? One of the, in the U.S. record books, is that top three? It's the third fastest time. Yeah, third fastest time ever by an American. What's the record? The record is 142.6 by Johnny Gray. And you're 142, what are you? Nine.

Oh, my goodness. I'm close. Oh, my gosh. It's so close. Is that the goal, to beat that eventually? Yeah, I'd like to. I ran my 142.95 at the London Olympic Finals. If that's the perfect hit, it's just saying, hey, there's so much on the line and bringing your best product at the very highest stage of the game. I don't

know that I can call upon an effort like that in any other situation. So if I'm ever going to get that record, I feel like it has to be in the Olympic final in Rio next year. That's crazy, man. So if you can walk us through the visualization process you had with the recent national championships if you can remember what it was yeah 10 minutes before the race and then um and even the night before do you do any visualization the night before the morning over is it well it's funny yeah i do i do work with a sports psychologist and a lot of it just about staying out of my own way and so you know when self-doubt creeps in we just try to like squash it

because I don't think there's a more toxic thing in this entire world than self-doubt. And we do everything to just kind of wrap my mind around getting outside the self-doubt spiral. So, you know, as I was coming into this US championship, I think I only had the 15th fastest time and that wouldn't even put me in the finals, you know. And so we were just talking about how over the last nine, ten years,

my body's always found a way to get through the championships rounds better than anyone else. And I don't know if it's just the way that my body's built or the way that my mind handles it or the way that the rounds prepare my body, but I always find myself feeling better in the third of three rounds. We actually run three-round series. So the third race in four days, I feel better than the first one.

So it's kind of unusual, actually. Most athletes kind of feel worse and worse through the rounds. So I kind of just shook my head and I said, I'm not going to doubt myself or my competitors for that matter, but just know that I will feel better throughout the rounds. And, and maybe I, and I thought maybe I would even set a season best three each round. And that's ultimately what I ended up doing.

I had to run my fastest time of the season through each round to keep advancing and ultimately winning. Oh my goodness. And what was the final time? I won it in one 44, five. Wow. Yeah. Two seconds off.

It was a second and a half off my personal best, but more importantly, it was almost a two-second best from the time that I had run to qualify for it. It was really a case of bringing an A-plus product when it counts.

At this point, like I said, I've only got so many efforts, so I'm glad I was able to call upon it at the U S championship. Uh, and now I've got it now that I qualified for the world championships in Beijing, I've got to, you know, again, regroup and save that, that energy. So when it counts out there. Sure. And so walk me through, what does your sports psychologist say, you know, before you, the meet or what's the process that you go through specifically in your mind or physically? For me, you know, I'm one of those athletes where I kind of just got to let my body do

what it does and get my brain out of the way. So a lot of it's just, you know, talking about... Do you have a mantra or do you have like a saying that you say to yourself or anything like that? You know, my new mantra has been don't worry about anything unless, you know, there's something to actually worry about because I'm kind of a warrior by nature. And I just kind of realized that, you know, nine times out of ten, I'll spend all this energy worrying about something. And the issue ultimately resolves itself without any of my input or any of my actions.

And it's so funny that I spend all this energy worrying about something when the situation is going to resolve itself. So I no longer, I do everything I can now not to worry about the issues until a serious problem is actually, you know, on my plate. And then I'll, then I'll worry about it and I'll address it. But, uh, I think that that's, uh, especially if you're a warrior like myself or someone that extends energy, um, you know, fretting about things. And that's a, that's really powerful to not to just kind of let it go and say, this isn't it. This, this could turn into a problem, but right now it's not, and I'm not going to expend energy worrying about it. And how do you handle a loss? Depends on the loss.

I mean, there are some more than others. If I lose in an exhibition race, I kind of just shrug it off. I say, all right, that's me at 95%, but I know what I can do at a hundred percent. When I lost in London and ran one 42, nine for fifth place, that one 42, nine would win an Olympic gold medal in every single Olympic games, except Athens. It would have taken silver.

That was a hard loss to swallow because I really, I got done with that race and I sat down and looked at my legs and I said, that is the fastest I can run. That is the greatest product that I have ever, ever brought. And it still wasn't good enough. And the fact that it would have been good enough in every other Olympic Games just made it that much worse. And to be honest, I had to take about two or three months off after that to regroup

and learn to love running again. It just seems so cruel and unfair. But that's the sport, you know, and you get, you have some amazing highs and some amazing lows, but at the end of the day, you're living this lifestyle that lets you see the world and, and you really connect with your body and just, you know, I don't think there's a better way that you could spend a day than just working out and hanging out with your friends and eating whatever you want to and traveling the world. So I feel very blessed. That's pretty cool.

Okay, so it took you a few months to get back into it. Was your body, you know, broken down as well, or was it more mentally, emotionally broken down? Yeah, I think more Nancy was emotionally. I was in great shape, but just the thought of going out and training, you know, we run about anywhere from 8 to 10 miles a day. And you have to really want something to put your body through that day in and day out. And I, you know, after the London, I just thought,

why am I doing this? Like I could be out having fun. Like all my other friends, I could be living a carefree life and going out and drinking and traveling and doing whatever I want. And instead of going to bed at nine 30 to wake up and run 10 miles. And for two or three months I did, I'd live that lifestyle. Just kind of goofed around and hiked a lot, fished a lot, drank a lot of beers. But then you get to a point where you miss that focus, being accountable and being responsible for something.

I'm responsible for my training. It's almost like a child. It's not even close, but it is this thing thing this living thing that you have to take care of and manage every single day and it's not just a nine-to-five this is a lifestyle this is a way of life that you have to every single day be conscious about taking care of and did i hear you you got started in track and field for a girl uh yeah i got started in running for a girl so i was a soccer player growing up and uh i remember remember one summer day we were at the pool and these two girls that I thought were very cute, but I had a specific crush on one of them. They said they just signed up for the cross country team. And I laughed at them. I said, why would anybody want to run for fun?

And they giggled and they invited me out. And so just to spend time with them, I decided to sign up for the cross country team as well. And I absolutely hated practice, but I love that they were co-ed. And I think at the time I was 13 or 14, I loved spending time with these girls and the guys on the team. I loved running with them too.

So I think that sense of camaraderie and that sense of being part of a team and just the fun times that we had. I had a really great high school coach by a guy named Tom Shanahan that made it fun and made kids want to come out and run the fun times that we had. I had a really great high school coach by a guy named Tom Shanahan that made it fun and made kids want to come out and run for fun. That's kind of what kept me coming back for more, even though I'd shake out my head and be like,

we should be out playing soccer or doing something other than running intervals in the hot, hot air. Yeah, it's pretty boring. I'm curious now, if you would have never had that crush on those girls, would you be an Olympian? Yeah, I think that I always thought about that. You know, like running was going to find me one way or another. And if it wasn't to go out to be with these girls, it would have been, you know, watching my sister on track and field and wanting to see what I could do. I've always been kind of a curious guy and I wanted to do everything.

So when I was growing up, I played three sports every season. I'm not even joking. It was always soccer, ice hockey, hunting, fishing, golfing. You know, I did every single sport. So at some point I was going to run. And my body, as crazy as it sounds, it was born to run the half mile. It's just what it does. I can't run a mile real well.

I mean, I can run it okay, but not on a world-class level. And I can't run much for 400. I can barely run a K or a 6. My body is made to run exactly 800 meters. Not 801, not 799, but 800 meters. And it's really astounding, you know, at this level, how dialed in your body becomes. And, you know, you take another guy and we might look exactly the same, but he is born to run a mile or 400, for example. And there's something about the way that your ligaments and tendons connect with your bones and the way your heart and your lungs pump your blood.

And it just all dials in for one specific event. And that's one of the things I love about track and field is I almost feel like there's an event for everybody because there are so many events. And they're built for so many different body types. I'm on a Team USA, and I'm sitting there having dinner with a guy who's 300 pounds, 6'7", and a thrower. And then you look to your left, and there's a girl, and she might weigh 100 pounds, and she's a marathoner. And you just laugh at how cool that team is, how diverse it is, and how all-inclusive it

is. There really is an event for everybody. And how do you define yourself as an athlete or something else? I primarily define myself as a businessman and I love entrepreneurial business. And when I think about my job as a runner, I don't think about myself as a professional athlete so much as I think about myself as an entertainer and a marketer. So my business is really entertainment and marketing. And I actually wrote a book. My book's titled Life Outside the Oval Office. And that's really talking about how I approach my job.

So, you know, we call the track an oval and that's my office. So outside the Oval Office is how I run my business. And it's approaching it from this mindset that I'm an entertainer and a businessman where I've said I've never once been paid to run. Even though I'm a professional've said I've never once been paid to run. Even though I'm a professional runner, I've never once been paid to run. My salary comes from my sponsors.

You know, Brooks Running is my chief sponsor. They provide me with apparel and shoes and the living stipend. And my job is to market their products. You know, Soleus Timing is my watch partner. You know, Soleus Timing is my watch partner. And when I'm racing in an exhibition event, I'm marketing the, you know, whatever's on my bid. Exactly, the company that sponsored the event. So in that sense, you know, really what I do is marketing.

Interesting. Now, when you win events, is there any prize money on any of these? Oftentimes, yeah. So you'll make some money if you win. The way we make the majority of our income is there's three different revenue streams. One is through sponsors. The other one is through prize money that you can earn at certain events. And then the other one is something we call appearance fees.

So if you've built your brand up big enough that you have a good following and you'll build seats, then sometimes new directors will actually give you money just to show up and race, and they can use your name in their marketing. But unless you're saying Bolt, not many people are getting an appearance fee. No, not many people get appearance fees. You know, Bolt pulls down six figures every time he steps on the track just in appearance fees alone. So that's a guy that fills seats. There are some smaller meets that I can command an appearance fee for,

but the vast majority of my income comes from sponsors. That's how most Americans are. This has been a big issue for me in the past. Most of my foreign competitors get support from their government. A lot of support. It's called being hard in some countries. You get

monthly stipends to live off of. One of my friends had an apartment bought for him and his family by the country. The U S government doesn't give us almost anything. I mean, very, very minimal support.

So all of all, if you're, if you're watching team USA, those athletes, they only get to where they're at through corporate sponsorships. So again, no, that's why I'll always shout out my sponsor.

I would not be a professional runner without Brooks Running today. They are the ones that get me to U.S. Championships healthy. They're the ones that give me these great shoes to train in. And ultimately, they're the ones that allow me to go home every night

and know that all I have to do is wake up to train. I can train 100% of my energy knowing that they're going to support me wake up and train. I can train 100% of my energy knowing that they're going to support me. Amazing. Yeah. I'm currently on the USA National handball team and there is essentially negative funding for us. So I've been on the team for a number of years and I pay all my travel to get to training camp. I pay for all my gear. They'll give us some jerseys every now and then and a couple of practice shorts or whatever, but I pay for my shoes. I pay for all my gear, you know, they'll give us some like jerseys every now and then, and a couple of practice shorts or whatever, but I pay for my shoes.

I pay for everything. And it's, uh, you know, it's expensive. It's really expensive to live that lifestyle, to be in that dream and just to play. And that's, that's why it's so appalling is, is every four years or every two years, I guess you watch, you know, you're on your U S Olympic team and we've got some great athletes that are out there winning medals for our country. And many of them live, they live below the poverty line and they operate in the red each year so

that they can go out, you know, and, and live their dreams. But, but they're, they're part of this $5 billion entity that has the Olympic games, $5 billion exchanging hands.

And the athletes get absolutely none of it. And that's so wrong. And I'm going, I've, I've fought it before and I'm going to none of it. And that's so wrong. And I'm going, I've, I've fought it before and I'm going to continue fighting it, but it's, it's just so appalling that the IOC and all of the sponsors and the vendors all make so much money and the athletes walk away with nothing. Why is it still that model? Why do they still do that? Because there are so many athletes that,

that are willing to do it for free, and it's a shame. Or it's because they have great funding from their countries. But again, Americans, we get almost nothing from our country. So I feel that that model is outdated, and I intend to change it. I intend to do everything that I can to change that. You've been very outspoken your whole career about this and about sponsorships. that. You've been very outspoken your whole career about this and about sponsorships. And I think even one time I read that you had an eBay auction for a sponsor to have not a permanent tattoo, but a temporary tattoo on your shoulder. Is that right? Yeah. In 2012, to protest the fact that

USOC and IOC were going to make me cover up my. Um, I actually auctioned off my left shoulder, two square inches of real estate space there at advertising space on eBay, partially just to see what kind of interest there'd be. And partially because it thought it'd be a fun way to interact with my fans. Uh, but, but mainly as a form of protest, cause I'm in the auction, I said, I'm going to have to take over this advertisement during the U S trials and during the Olympic games. And then people were appalled that I had to do that. But ultimately, I ended up partnering with a company that won the auction and received a check for $11,100 from Hanson Dodge Creative, which is a marketing PR firm based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

And it was just such a classic example that when you take a risk and aim to do the right thing, such good things can happen to you. And this was such a fortuitous moment when they won the bid because I ended up, we ended up creating, you know, tens of thousands of dollars worth of content that benefited them and benefited me and raised a lot of awareness about the plight of the average Olympian. And it was just a really, really fun way to interact with the media and interact with my fans and ultimately raise this issue that the IOC is getting rich on the labor of what I call indentured servants. They are indebted to us. We are the ones putting on a show.

You couldn't have a show without the athletes. And it's unforgivable to not compensate the athletes for their hard work. I agree. And what happened when you had that temporary tattoo on did they still have to cover it up what didn't i hear that yeah so at both the u.s olympic trials and the games i had to put tape over it that was that was their answer just put tape over it if it doesn't match up to what their strict rules wow and that actually got more pictures or sorry that actually got more press, right? So if you look at pictures or, sorry? That actually got more press because people were like, what's under the tape? Yeah. Everyone's like, why is this kid running around with a piece of duct tape on his shoulder?

Which allowed me to plug Hanson Dodge every time they asked me that. Sure, sure. And I'm very seriously contemplating doing the same thing in 2016. So if you follow me on social media, I'm at Nick Simmons on Twitter, at Nick Simmons on Instagram. And come January, I might be back on eBay. We'll have to see. Wow.

Maybe I'll sponsor it for my book launch that comes out later this year. Perfect. Yeah. That's incredible. Now, I also saw that you're pretty vocal against anti-gay laws, especially in Moscow during the 2013 World Championships. Can you talk about your dedication for the silver medal that you won? Yeah, well, I just remember probably around the late 2000s, this idea of gay marriage suddenly started creeping into pop culture

and everyone was talking about it. And it just seemed like such a no-brainer to me. How are you going to give two Americans certain rights and not two other Americans? And I think to a lot of people in my generation, it just didn't make sense. It was so clear that everyone gets the same rights. And so I was pretty vocal about that here on U.S. Soil.

And it had a lot of support in both communities, the gay and the straight community. And a lot of my followers that identified as gay, they said, what are you going to do when you go to Moscow for the world championships? Because Moscow had recently passed some pretty harsh legislation that was very unkind to people

who identified as gay or transgendered or anything, really. And I said, you know, my job out here is to win a medal. And I guess that wasn't a good answer, but it was the answer I needed to give at the time. I needed to be focused on my job, which was to win a medal. But once I'd won the medal, I wanted to make it mean more than just me selfishly running and seeing how fast I could be.

I wanted to utilize that platform to get a message across. And so I dedicated that silver medal to my gay and lesbian friends who were fighting challenges, you know, domestically and abroad. And I guess I was the first athlete to kind of renounce those new laws on U.S. soil. And the fact that this was six months before Sochi caught a lot of attention in the media. So again, I was just just felt like it was something that needed to be said and was happy to play a very, very small role in bringing that awareness to the public.

And then when SCOTUS passed the new law or the new amendment that said that, you know, equal rights for everybody in the U.S. and for marriage equality. I mean, what a great day for America. It was just so, so awesome. But you got to remember, there are still dozens of countries throughout the world where it is punishable by death to be homosexual. And it's just it's just unbelievable. And so even though we are making big steps here in the U.S., there's a lot of battles that's going to be fought throughout the world for equality. What's your words of wisdom to maybe a young athlete who's, you know, maybe they're in track and field, maybe not, but they don't have the prototypical build or body like, you know, a lot of the athletes that you compete against.

you know, some of the, a lot of the athletes that you compete against, and maybe they're not sure about, you know, what the right sport or event for them, or if they're even great or if they have a potential to be great. What's some advice you have for a young athlete who's uncertainty? Yeah. I just start by saying from the very first day I started playing sports, people told me I was too small or now they say I'm too big or I'm too short or I'm too white. Uh, I had every single sport I've ever attempted. I've been to something that doesn't allow me to be good at it. And in track and field, you know, D1 coaches used to say,

you know, I just can't take that risk on a, on a short stocky white kid from Idaho. You know, I, I, you know, I just took that as such so offensive, you know, it's like, you never know what an athlete is capable of. And most certainly the athlete themselves doesn't even know what they're capable of. So my, my, my two big things are try everything because I promised that everybody's good at something and you don't even know what it is. I didn't start running until kind of later in life, but it wasn't until I realized that I wasn't going to be a pro hockey player or I wasn't going to be a pro soccer player, or I wasn't start running until kind of later in life, but it wasn't until I realized that I wasn't going to be a pro hockey player or I wasn't going to be a pro soccer player or I wasn't going to be a pro golfer. I had to eliminate all those. And then all of a sudden I found running and, or it found me finally.

And so I encourage everybody to try everything because you're every, everybody is an athlete and everybody is going to be good at something. You just don't know what it is. It may be badminton. It may be curling. It may be some sport that you never even heard of yet, but there are so many great opportunities out there in sports, such a wonderful way to learn about life and to learn about yourself. I think you've got to try them on and ultimately one is going to choose you. What's been the greatest moment, most proud moment for you over the last two decades? Boy, those are tough questions. You know, graduating from college was a big one for me simply because I didn't love college.

I wanted to drop out pretty much every day of the four years that I spent in college. I saw college as getting in the way of some of the other things that I wanted to do in life. And, um, the fact that I was able to persevere and see it through, I'm just proud of myself for finishing what I started. Um, you know, running has been easy running with something that, that I wanted to do. It's something that I did for free for four years in college and, and, uh, was willing to make so many sacrifices because I wanted to do it so bad and want to see how good I could get. So making my first Olympic team is a very, very proud moment, but it doesn't have the same sense of perseverance and sacrifice that maybe graduating from college did. So those are my two proudest accomplishments, making my first Olympic team and graduating college, but for two very different

reasons. At the end of your track career and professional racing career, what would you want people to say about you and what would you want people to say about you? And what would you want to have accomplished that you haven't accomplished yet? Well, I'd like to be remembered as one of the most consistent competitors. And no matter what, I would like people to say when Nick Simmons showed up to a championship race, whether he was ranked one or last coming in, you always knew he was a threat. And I think I've done a good job of that.

I'd also like to be remembered probably more importantly than as a good competitor, as a consistent competitor, as a guy who fought for the rights of his fellow athletes. I just feel that the athletes are absolutely bullied and tread upon, and we're operating under the rules and guidelines of governing bodies that take almost every single dollar and leave very little left for the athletes. And even long after I'm done competing, I'm going to continue to fight for the rights of athletes because the way that the business model is set up right now is so unfair and so unkind and unhelpful for athletes. It's wrong, and I'm going to do everything I can to change it.

That's powerful, yeah. It reminds me a lot of UFC. The athletes in UFC don't really make much, and it's all dictated based on the sponsorships that the UFC get or whatever. A couple of my friends who are in there say it's a grind and a struggle and they pretty much own everything about you. It's tough, man. It's real tough. I'm glad to hear that you're going to be the one leading the charge for many years to come.

I'll do what I can. What do you see yourself doing after you're complete, whenever that is? That's a great question. It's funny. People have been asking me, what are you going to do when you're done running, you know, for the better part of a decade now? And I kind of always was this athlete that wanted to have this seamless transition between professional running life and after running life.

And as an entrepreneur, I was presented with a pretty unique opportunity to partner with my coach, who's a fellow entrepreneur and create a company recently. And this company is called run gum. And what we do is we we've manufactured gun that has, that's fortified with caffeine, towering and B vitamins, which are all shown to have performance enhancing effects on endurance

athletes. And this company we launched in October 14, uh, and it's just taken off. And it's been fun to grow this business with my coach. And I know that this business needs my attention. And as it grows, it's going to need my attention more and more. But RunGum's been in business for nine months. We've sold a lot of gum.

You can buy it online at RunGum.com. You can follow us on social media at RunGum. But that's what I see myself doing as entrepreneurial business and in particular growing our company RunGum. Nice. Yeah. I see I'm on the website right now is a big picture of you flexing your muscles after a win. Yeah. I think that's the national championships. That was the win of the US championship. Yeah. And the fact that I was covered in RunGum chat too certainly helped. I like it. Very cool. I'll have to try some out with my next run. I run about three to three and a half miles a few times a week just to try to keep my body in shape. So I get exhausted from

that. So I'll have to get some on my next. Man, you need some RunGum. So essentially, everything that's in an energy drink is in that packet of gum. Wow. So caffeine, taurine, and B vitamins. The advantage here is that you don't have to digest anything. So it hits you five times faster for sublingual absorption without any heavy or acidic liquid in your stomach. So if you're an endurance athlete or even if you're just someone on the go in the afternoons, someone that needs a little boost, run gum is your answer. Yeah, because if you've got to drink a recovery drink or a Powerade or whatever it is, you've got all this extra weight in your stomach. It's sloshing around.

If you're pushing too hard, you might have to throw it up. You can't really consume that much during that endurance race. You've got to take little sips, right? When I need my energy, usually it's to perform on the track or in an endurance athletic competition. I don't want anything in my stomach, but I need those stimulants to perform at my best. So that was the idea behind Run Gum is let's take the stimulants that we love in energy drinks or energy shots and let's get them into the system in a way that's quicker and more effective than through digestion.

So people who are caffeine addicts like myself love it. It's a little bit different caffeine boost than what you're used to. Whereas if you're sipping on an energy drink or coffee, you kind of slowly dial up that caffeine jolt. If you're too run dumb, you're going to go zero to a hundred in a couple minutes. So it really is that kick in the pants to get you out the door and get your run in bring you to that level of amp energy that allows you to tap into the best athlete that you can be and make the most out of your workout. Sure, yeah. I've got a couple questions left for you before we wrap up. One is, what are you most grateful for recently?

Recently? The thing I'm most grateful for recently is my relationship with Brooks. I had been partnered with Nike for about, I guess it was close to eight years. And, you know, I'm always grateful for what Nike did. They took a chance on a little Division III guy coming out of school. And they set me up in Eugene, Oregon, which had been my home for seven or eight years. And I really loved being a part of the team that Oregon Track Club believed they set up down there. But I knew that, oh, I felt that my career was really coming to an end or my relationship with Nike was coming to an end.

And I thought that meant that my career was coming to an end. When I started speaking with the people up at Brooks Running and visiting Seattle and learning about the company they call themselves the Run Happy Running Company, I found this new, renewed sense of passion for running and the lifestyle. And I really, truly contemplated retirement once my contract with Nike expired. expired. But having moved up here to Seattle recently and worked with the men and women at Brooks running, it's truly given me two or three, maybe more years of competitive running that I didn't think I had in myself. That's great. That's awesome. I'm curious about relationships and the drive. How is it being in relationships or how is it having a girlfriend or being in a relationship while you're so competitive and focused on one vision? Are you able to really connect with someone or be in relationships over the last decade

or is it more tabled so you can put all of your energy into this vision? That's a really great question. And it's been, it's one that's been really tough for me. I think that to be the best athlete you can be is a selfish endeavor. And I've also thought that I don't want to aspire to be a selfish boyfriend or selfish husband. So for me, personal relationships have kind of been tabled while I was really focusing on being the best athlete I could be. And I've tried to make a few relationships work. And ultimately, no one wants to feel

second and you know, to, to someone's career. So that's been really hard for me, but it also provides this like really cool way to look at it or approach the sport that I've made sacrifices. But when I do decide to retire, there's all these other aspects of life that I can really turn myself into. And I think that running is, has taught me a lot of lessons about sacrifice and about dedicating oneself to a person or to a goal or to a cause. And I like to think that I could be a really great boyfriend or husband and know what it takes to make something.

Her relationship's a lot of work and I know how to work hard. I think I could be a very, very good partner to somebody, but I don't think I can be that person until I'm done running. Wow. Do you think it's possible for other people to give 100% to the sport at the level that you do or any sport and have a successful marriage or relationship? I think that everybody's different. And some people find that, um, having the, the, the, the, the, not only say distraction,

but having the multiple interests allow them to maybe have the support that they need or, or have a distraction that they need from, from their primary objective, you know, whether that's running or, or if the primary objective is their marriage, maybe they're running,

maybe they compliment each other, you know, better than they just, they do distract from each other. But for me personally, exactly. It depends on your partner. It depends on who you are and, they do distract from each other. But for me personally, exactly. It depends on your partner. It depends on who you are and, and how you guys work together.

I just knew that for me personally, I needed to be selfish and I was very selfish in my twenties. And now in my early thirties, I've been very selfish and doing whatever it takes to be the very best athlete I can be. And I have to be honest, I do look forward to the day that I can be a little bit less selfish and actually focus on putting someone else's needs first. That's cool. Wow.

That's awesome. If at the end of the day that everything that you said, everything you've done, people came down to asking you this question, what are the three things that you've learned, the three things you know to be true about life from all of your experiences, and you could leave people with three things, three truths. What would that be? Oh, that's good. Yeah, I like it. All right. And I consider myself a fairly introspective spiritual person. So I think about these things a lot. First of all, family's everything. I have a really great family. My

parents are still together. My sister's about to get married. Um, I'm very close with all of them and family, it's everything. Um, no matter what, when, and then family's not just blood either, you know, my, my coach, Sam LaPre and all his kids, they're all family as well. And you know, when in good times and in bad, I think we turn to our family to celebrate or to get through the tough times. And so that's the number one thing that comes to my mind. The second one is that there's literally only one thing it takes to be successful, and that's perseverance. Every single successful person I know in every single walk of life has one common characteristic, and that's that they persevere.

Because no matter what, you will always have obstacles. You will always have challenges. And the people that rise and overcome those, that persevere through anything that gets thrown their way, they are the ones that are truly successful. And the third one, well, as an athlete, I'm just going to go ahead and plug athleticism, but exercise every single day. And I'm not saying that you need to go around 10 miles like I do, but there's something about exercising that just enhances every single aspect of your life. of your life, food tastes better, just walking around or sitting or every single interaction that you have with the world around you is enhanced through being active. And maybe your exercise is yoga. Maybe it's walking a little bit each day, swimming.

I don't, I always tell people it doesn't matter what you do, but get out and be active and love this vessel that you've been given, this vessel that you've been given this, this body that you've been given, uh, and just, you know, cherish the opportunity to, to interact with your world and, and really, um, you know, really get out there and live life to the fullest. I love those. Thanks for those three. Um, yeah.

Final question before I ask, I want to take a moment with all of my guests. I acknowledge them at the end for what opens up for me from the interview. So Nick, I want to acknowledge you for your tenacious consistency, your hustle, your commitment over the years. I think the last decade specifically after college, I know how hard it is to stay in shape and to stay committed to a vision with that physical aspect every single day. And I don't think people understand how hard you actually work. And I probably don't even understand it, but I can get a sense of it that you are just so committed to your vision to being the best physical specimen that you can be. physical specimen that you can be. And the 800 and the mile are some of the most grueling. It literally makes you feel like you want to die sometimes when you run those events at the level that you're running them. So I want to acknowledge you for your commitment,

for your courage to speak out, which could potentially make you lose sponsorships, could potentially make you not be able to race. Maybe they'll ban you. So I want to acknowledge you for that courage that you consistently have to speak out even with the platform that you have. And I would acknowledge you for being a creative entrepreneur during this journey because a lot of athletes don't look about how they can make something on the side or build something on the side. And then after they're done, they have nothing and they live off the glory days. So I acknowledge you for your, your courage, your wisdom, your, uh, tenacious commitment and, uh, for being an incredible human being. Thanks so much, man. Yeah. And my final question is, what's your definition of greatness? Uh, what's my definition of greatness? Purpose, honestly. I used to think that it was happiness. And happiness is fleeting. It comes and goes. It's something to strive for. But having a sense of purpose is probably the most important definition of greatness. And I was unable to

learn that lesson until I got injured last year and lost my sense of purpose. And whether your purpose is to wake up in the morning and be the best athlete you can be or be the best husband you can be or the best father, everybody needs to have that sense of purpose. And I'm grateful to have my sense of purpose back as an entrepreneur, as a brother and a son and as a runner. Nick Simmons, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom, my man. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Great questions. And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Again, if you did like it, make sure to head back to our show notes at lewishouse.com slash 205. Share this with your friends. If you have any athlete friends

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