The School of Greatness - 219 How a Huge Vision Becomes Reality with Bryan Johnson

Episode Date: August 26, 2015

"I wanted to build a company with a soul." - Bryan Johnson If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at http://lewishowes.com/219.

This is episode number 219 with Brian Johnson. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone to today's episode.

We have a fantastic guest on today. His name is Brian Johnson and he lived in Ecuador for two years in his early 20s and became inspired to devote his life to improving the lives of others. In January 2007, he founded a company called Braintree, which was twice named one of the fastest growing companies in America by Inc. Magazine. Then in 2013, eBay and PayPal bought Braintree for $800 million in cash. $800 million in cash. In October 2014, he launched the OS Fund, which is investing in world-changing technologies that promise to rewrite the operating systems of life. He's an outdoor enthusiast, pilot, children's book author, and has climbed some of the tallest

mountains in the world. He's a father, an all-around incredible human being. I'm very excited to let you guys dive into the mind of Brian Johnson because he went through some struggles in his early companies. Actually, one of his first companies was very successful, then two major failures, and then came back and launched Braintree and sold it for $800 million. So this is a great story that you're going to want to listen to.

And Brian shares some fascinating things about how to grow a company, how to come back after a lot of adversity and essentially failure of not having companies succeed at all and come back and do something incredible. And now all the things he's doing and all the things he's up to is fascinating to me. I think you're going to love this episode. I think you're going to love this episode. I think you're going to love this interview. Make sure to spread the word about this episode using the link lewishouse.com slash 219. Share it out on Twitter, Facebook, and everywhere online. And our sponsor for today, before we get into this episode, is the School of Greatness book. That's right. My book is sponsoring the show.

What did you think about that? And I'm excited, guys. This is coming out October 27th. We've had thousands of preorders so far. If you haven't picked up a copy yet, make sure to buy a preorder copy today. Go to Amazon. Go to BarnesandNoble.com. Go to GreatnessBook.com.

You can learn more about the book there. Buy a few copies for your friends. Get the word out. Greatness is coming October 27th. Get ready. Until then, we've got some incredible episodes coming up, including this one. So get ready, put your seatbelt on, and let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, Brian Johnson. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about today's guest.

His name is Brian Johnson. He is the founder of a company called Braintree, which eventually sold for $800 million to PayPal and eBay. And he is also an outdoor adventurer, enthusiast. He climbs mountains, goes in active volcanoes. He does Arctic dog sledding. He's a pilot and an author of children books, among many other things, and also an incredible human being. So I want to welcome you, Brian, to the podcast. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'm very excited because you're a man who's had incredible success in your life, let's say in the financial sense, in the entrepreneur world.

And a lot of my listeners want to learn about how to get to the next level. So I'd love to dive into all these things about your life and specifically how you built your business, how you even came up with the idea in the first place, created a culture of positive energy so people wanted to stay around and support the vision you had. But it all had to come from somewhere. And how did you even get to that place in the first point? Were you always successful in every venture that you created or were there challenges along the way? No. I think the biggest turning point I had in my life was I was 21 years old. I just returned from a two-year volunteer stint in Ecuador and I was there

living among people shackled by extreme poverty. And I came back to the States and just the experience had just changed the way I understood the world and myself. And I determined that I wanted to spend my life trying to improve the lives of others. Having a job didn't make sense to me. And working until the age of 65 and retiring, that just didn't make sense. And so I decided that I was going to build a business and retire by the age of 30. And then with abundance of time and resources, go out and try to be useful in the world. And I committed to family and friends that that was my path, and I went about doing it. But yeah, I mean, there were certainly quite a lot of failures and discouragement and difficult times along the way, I mean, to say the least.

Okay. So did you retire by 30 then, or when did that happen where you could retire? I was 35. Is that when you sold Braintree? Yes. Okay. So you didn't complete the vision by 30, but you did it by 35, and it sounds like 800 million still. A pretty good success.

So congrats on making that happen, even though it's five years late. So after 21, when you're coming back, how did you know you were going to be a great entrepreneur? How did you know that you were going to be able to do this essentially on your own as opposed to going and finding a job? I guess I knew. I opened up a spreadsheet one day and I started doing the math. What would it take to accumulate enough money to basically be able to never work again? What was that for you? Well, so I came up with this number 7 million. I don't even remember how I came to the number,

but I thought 7 million should be adequate. If I had that, I could go out and I could spend time being useful in the world. I wouldn't have to go to a job or something like that. I thought, how would I ever accumulate that much money working at a job? I'd have to take some particular path, like become a lawyer and become a partner in the firm or get an investment in banking or something that has

a larger payoff because I didn't really have any skills. I didn't have anything I was really good at. And so that's why I decided to become an entrepreneur. You could make an enormous amount of money in a short period of time. And so I burned the boat. I mean, there was no other option for me. I knew I couldn't get a job. I wasn't going to trade 60 minutes of my time for $8.75 in college. It just seemed ludicrous to me. And so I just didn't see any other way to live life. And so it just wasn't an option.

So what was the first thing you did then? I mean, so you said, okay, I'm going to make $7 million and I'm going to figure this thing out. Did you have mentors? Did you have partners? Or were you just like, I'm going to go start selling something? What was that first thing? Well, so I went and bought a cell phone from this guy at the mall one day. I'd found him in the Yellow Pages and I knew he'd give me a cheap phone. I bargained over the phone with him. And so we met up, and he said, hey, you look energetic, and you seem like you're smart. So why don't you come sell phones for me? I'll pay you $40 per activation. And I thought, perfect.

You're right. If I do $40, if I do two activations per hour, and I work 10 hours a week, I'm on the path to making $40,000 a year. And I thought, that's ideal because I can now pay my way through college. I can focus on my studies. And so I did that for two days. On the second day, I reported this woman who had two screaming children. I had this thought.

If I'm selling phones for him, why can't others sell for me? I literally left the conversation and I ran home. Two solid days figuring out the industry, who sold phones, how I could sell for others, how people could sell it for me, all that kind of stuff. I launched my business two days later.

I was on my path. I started my first company. I built out a network of college students to sell phones for me, and I paid my way through college. It was a profitable business. It was a good business. I had time to do well enough in school, but that was my first entry point into entrepreneurship. to do well enough in school. But that was my first entry point into entrepreneurship.

So how did you even come up with the idea that you could do it on your own? You're 20 or 21 right then. How did you even think that, oh, I can do this on my own? I mean, who does that? Who just says, I'm going to do it on my own? Honestly, it didn't occur to me that I couldn't. Maybe that was a problem, but I never had a doubt. I thought I'll just figure it out on the fly.

Interesting. Where do you think that mentality came from? Did you have parents that really instilled that in you or was that just an innate feeling you had? Yeah, I mean, growing up, my parents trusted us enormously. We grew up in Utah and we lived just 45 minutes south of Salt Lake. We had a bunch of fields around us and we went out and did our own thing all the time. And we were trusted to make good decisions. Now, we didn't make good decisions all the time. We were quite mischievous. But yeah, I mean, I just grew up running my own show and running my own world. And my parents trusted me to do so. And I gained

the confidence that I could. And so I think it's probably just instilled in how they dealt with me as I grew up. What other type of environment did they create for you? And how many siblings did you have? Three brothers and one sister. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I have a big family as well. What was the environment you think they created that cultivated this for you? Was it just this trust or was it this encouragement? Did they teach you constantly new things or was it just go figure it out? Well, so one time I was – I love dogs. I was down at my stepdad's shop and there was a stray dog and I was going to go home and get some dog food for him.

So I put him in the front seat of this truck. I was, I think, 14 at the time, and I was driving along before I got my license. And my stepdad was cool with it. So I got in the truck. I was driving down the road. He came over and licked me in the face, and I accidentally put my hand on the wheel and turned too far left. By the time I looked up, I ran over this railroad sign and drove the truck into the ditch. And so I walked back to my dad's shop. I said, hey, I just drove the truck into the ditch. so i walked back to my dad's shop i said hey i just drove

the truck into the ditch i ran over a railroad sign and as so typical of him he just said all right let's get the truck and pull it out like he wasn't mad he didn't berate me he didn't say why'd you do that he just pulled me out and so we got down there we pulled it out and then the sheriff drives by says hey how you doing good go there i get their friends the local community and then he goes to drive away and he looks at the railroad sign and he says, did you run over that? I said, yeah. And so he ended up giving me a ticket for no insurance, no license. I had to do community service and pay the cost of the railroad sign.

But I never got a talking to from my parents. They just let it go. They knew I understood that I made a mistake and that I could manage myself. They knew I understood that I made a mistake and that I could manage myself. But they just dealt with us so well as we went through our teenage years and older in exploring the world. That's amazing. That's great that they didn't make you feel wrong or bad about it. You already knew you were wrong and bad for what you did.

What's your fondest memory about your parents growing up? We loved each other. We, we loved hanging out. I mean, for example, in high school, my mom to keep an eye on her mischievous boy, she was substitute teach, which was funny. And I'd walk down the hallway with my arm around her and she gave high fives to my friends. I was proud of my mom. I love my mom and And everyone loved her. And we just were a really tight family.

We enjoyed each other's company. We loved hanging out together. And so I think they did a really good job of fostering great relationships between us. If you could give any piece of advice to parents out there listening right now about the biggest lesson you learned about yourself growing up as a kid. What would you share with parents on how to cultivate great children? So I think what they did with me and what I try to do with my children is I try to be relevant in their lives. And so if my 12-year-old would come home from school and if I say, how's your day? The response is good. But if I know stuff going on in his world, if I know his friends and the girlfriends, I know what he's studying at school, I know the social intricacies of the drama happening between who got in a fight and how it happened and what he's concerned about personally, his insecurities or his hopes and dreams, I can really dig in deep.

And so I try really hard to be integrated into my children's lives, so I really am truly relevant. So when he comes home, I can say, hey, so what's the deal between Sam and Kelly? Do they get in a fight again? Are they still struggling over the Xbox One game on who's going to play Minecraft? I can be relevant. And so I just say understand them. And I think by doing so, you can connect on these deeper levels and have a meaningful role in their life, not just as a parent. have a meaningful role in their life, not just as a parent.

What would you say is the superpower that you developed in the first 30 years of your life with all the experiences you created that helped you get to where you are? What is that superpower thing that you have that maybe other people don't have as much of? I wouldn't attribute it to a superpower. I would just say that I'm very proud that the people that I got to work with in the companies that we built, that we had the mutual tenaciousness to continue in the darkest and most challenging times. And it wasn't my individual effort. It was a group and we all built each other up and we helped each other through. But it's a lesson of who you associate with and those closest to you are extremely important because very few of us are strong enough to stand on our own.

And I think that I was very fortunate to have people around me who were strong enough to get us through those difficult times to get us to the end where I think it was a good outcome. Yeah, that's cool. So you had this success with the cell phone company where you were selling phones, making money in college that paid you through college, but then your next two companies failed pretty big. And I'm curious, what was that experience like going from a success in college to then failing with your next two big ideas? And then how did you stay confident in moving forward in the next big win? Yeah, I mean I think failed is right. And failed miserably is probably more correct.

So, I mean once I had a profitable business, I penciled out what the potential was, and it just wasn't enough. And at that point, I mean, $7 million was my initial idea, but it wasn't a big enough number now. My ambitions were growing in time. And so with three other co-founders, I started a voice over IP company when people were making phone calls over the internet instead of through the traditional telephone lines. And it was the predecessor to Skype and Vonage. And I think the retrospective on that company is we did absolutely everything wrong. It was the wrong team, wrong product, wrong technology. We had good intentions, and we are capable people generally, but we just were not the right fit for that company.

We'd raised $420,000 from angel investors and an $80,000 loan, which we personally guaranteed. And we built the product. We got some revenue. We went for a second round of funding, and that was when 9-11 happened, and the market dried up. But I don't think we really could

or should have raised any more money. We just didn't have what it took to build a company. So that failed. Then on the hills of that, my older brother, who was a partner in the previous company, he and I started a real estate development company with a real estate developer in the area where he and I were raising money and running operations to the company. And he was doing the real estate development. We launched a $50 million real estate project that took us

basically two years to launch. And Fannie Mae was our equity investor with $3 million. and Fannie Mae was our equity investor with $3 million. And the project stalled in phase one because we didn't have adequate storage space in the units. And so empty nesters showed up to buy, and sales were not as fast as we'd hoped, and the bank had some concerns. And so another group came in and bought us out, and so we both were left with nothing. But, I mean, that was actually, honestly honestly one of the best things that ever happened to me because during those years of building the real estate company, we had no income. And I had a child at home at the time, and I needed money to pay the mortgage and buy food. And I applied for dozens and dozens of jobs.

Nobody would even give me a call back. No one. I mean I think they just sniffed me. They smelled that I was probably unhirable and I was going to leave anyways. I read the paper one day, and I saw they listed out the 50 richest people in Utah. And I thought, that's it.

So I emailed them and I said, hey, I'm young, I'm ambitious, I'm resourceful. I'll do whatever you want me to do. I'll be a right-hand man. I just need a part-time gig while I'm building my companies. I thought, don't get it. No one responded. And so at that point, I was totally desperate to make ends meet. And I needed to find this part-time job. And so I found this job in monster.com that

advertised selling credit card processing door-to-door. And basically, if you could fog and mirror, you were hired. And so I started selling for this company company and within a year, I became the company's number one salesperson. I broke all their sales records by simply using honesty and transparency and good support and I found the industry that I would build Braintree in. It was a remarkable discovery. Wow, okay.

So you're unhirable by the 50 wealthiest people in Utah and they wouldn't reply to you. You were desperate. You were broke. You had no money coming in. And then you took a job that probably wasn't the most life-fulfilling job,

selling credit card, what was it, credit card accounts? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Processing, yeah, yeah. So it's probably not your first choice, but it was probably profitable at the same time when you were successful at it. And you realized that in that process, you could do it better, just like you could do it better with the cell phone selling, I'm assuming, right? Yes, yes.

Okay. So you started Braintree with this foundation of being honest, real, and open, and having the best support. And what did you notice when you first launched it? Was it a challenge to get it started? Were you raising money? Did you do it all on your own? What happened? Yeah. So this was the first... Well, I did the cell phone startup on my own. And then I had partners for the second one and partners for the third one. And then I did sales on my own. And this time I wanted to go it alone again. So I started a company on my own, and I bootstrapped it from day one. I bootstrapped for nearly five years, which was fantastic. But with Braintree, I guess the observation of the industry was it was broken.

The technology was a decade behind. It was old. It was boring. No one really paid attention to it. And it's just this gem just sitting there. It was boring. No one really paid attention to it. And it's just this gem just sitting there.

And I think oftentimes entrepreneurs look for the sexy, cool industries that are great to brag at at cocktail parties or whatever. And oftentimes overlook these really boring industries which have enormous potential but not many people play in them. And so I started Braintree because I thought that we could deliver a better solution than what was happening out there. And I guess the other thing is I wanted, I didn't just want to build a company to make money. I wanted to build an exceptional company, one with a soul. And so I set up three goals for the company. One is that we would become the payments provider of choice for engineers. Two, that our employees would say it was the best company they'd ever worked for.

And three, that our customers would write us love letters. And I figured that if we got those three things done, that everything else would fall into place, and that was true. That's cool. So people wrote you love letters. We did. That was our desire. If any interaction, whether it be email or phone

or whether somebody is using the documentation to code to our APIs, to integrate their software with our software. Anything. I wanted them to walk away and say, wow, unbelievable. They really get it. They care. They're all over it. So we just wanted to be an exceptional shop.

Now, how many employees did it end lived up to the standard that you wanted the company to have? Yeah, it was a combination of a bunch of things. But I think, one, we set the tone internally that we wanted the very best people, that we just didn't have a safety net internally. If someone wasn't up to par with what they were supposed to do, we didn't have a training program to help them. We didn't have another department to shift them. We just said, go out and be awesome. And we want people to the very top, if you refer someone for this position, I will pay you $5,000 because my first assumption was, if you're reading the job ad, you're probably not the person I want to hire, which was, I mean, all irony aside, I was a guy looking on that job ad a while back myself. But the most exceptional people are typically satisfied with their job. And so then I would list out, please do not apply if. And we'd

try to list out characteristics that weren't consistent with our environment that we'd do, please do apply if. But the goal was we wanted the very best people to jump out of their chairs and say, yes, this is it. This is where I want to work. And so we tried to build on that culture where everyone felt that they were working with someone who was just as exceptional as them. That's amazing. And how many employees did you end up having? I believe it was around 150 or so at the time of acquisition. Okay, wow.

What was the biggest challenge running a company of 150 employees for you when previously it looks like you were running smaller companies than that? Was there a challenge when you scaled it to that level or was it fine for you? No, it was perpetually a challenge. I mean, constantly a challenge. So I learned a couple of lessons I thought were useful. One is that everybody always has a pebble in their shoe. Everyone's always upset about something, a relationship, a process, a job responsibility, like whatever. And so I did these weekly town hall meetings where we'd get together and I didn't want to talk about, I mean, I'd do a quick company update, but then I just wanted to spend time talking about how people felt about the company, what was bothering them, what were they excited about.

And I would just let this awkward silence sit and I would invite, because I knew what the scuttlebutt was. I knew what people were worried was. I knew what people were worried about. I knew what people were talking about in the hush whispers. But we'd finally get it out on the table, and we'd talk about really honest, true stuff. And it was like group therapy. And we got it on the table, and we established this culture of true transparency. And it just set the tone for how we could weather the challenges together because we inevitably had so many challenges. But our ability to maintain an honest relationship was really the glue that allowed us to weather it and go through all the challenges that you inevitably do growing a company to that size.

So do you recommend any company with 1,000 employees or five employees do a town hall meeting? Did you do it once a week? And do you recommend that anyone should do this? Well, I mean, there's a certain size. I can't speak from experience once you get to 1,000 or 2,000 or 5,000. But I will say that one of the biggest government agencies that works on keeping the country secure came in and toured the company one time. And they had this problem where they called it the Steve problem. And there was this guy within the organization, Steve, that was a real jerk. He was rude to people, and he stomped on them, and he pushed people down on his way up. And he kept on getting promoted. And so a whole bunch

of people like little Steve's popped up. Everybody wanted to be like Steve because that was the type of personality people wanted. They saw that was what was getting rewarded. And so I'd spend a lot of time telling stories about people inside of Braintree who went above and beyond the call of duty and who got people to write them love letters because they were so exceptional in what they did. I think storytelling is a big part of identifying people who truly exemplified it and keeping that as the key metric for what kind of culture you want to build. I mean it's the narratives you create. It's the stories you tell, and it's repeating that again and again and again to reinforce who you are, what you stand for. I think those things can be done at all levels because you set the tone on what is desirable and undesirable behaviors.

Right. undesirable, un-desirable behaviors. Right. What do you think the key building blocks for any entrepreneur listening to just get to the next level and build a thriving business for themselves, whether they're trying to make a million dollars a year or 800 million, what do you think are the necessary foundations, those building blocks to get to that next level? foundations, those building blocks to get to that next level. So I'm writing this article right now that basically says why I am skeptical of advice.

So don't give us any. So the irony, I'll give some advice by saying not give advice. So this image comes to mind when I think of advice. And it's this person walking through a minefield. And the other side of the field is the promised land, like whatever that person desires. In my case, it was retirement by 30, so I could go out and be useful in the world. And on each side of the field are people who are yelling to this person, like serpentine, go left, go right, jump up and down. There's an endless amount of advice in the world, people who would offer up context. And I guess my advice to people is that everyone has to make their own decisions based upon their unique context. That anything I say is baked into all my personal experience in life, so much of which is not in there.

And so I think it's important to include people's data points, but I think it's even more important to trust yourself and identify what drives you and how you get to your destination. I think oftentimes people lean on others too much, and they don't build the confidence they need to do on their own. I'd say you can do it. You've got the wherewithal. Do it. I 100% agree. I think it's definitely like a dance. For me, as an athlete, I've always grown up with great coaches guiding and facilitating, essentially, you to

become a champion in your sport. And so when you're used to having a coach that analyzes and assesses and gives you feedback and it supports you to get into that next level, sometimes it's hard to do it on your own and you're constantly looking for that feedback and support. But I definitely believe, but I also believe you can't achieve anything great on your own, that it takes a team. So I think it's like an interesting dance of finding that inner wisdom and trusting your gut and your instincts and taking action, making mistakes, but also having good support and feedback as well. I agree. My favorite advisor was Chuck. I didn't have any

investors, no co-founders. I had one advisor for two years when I first started Braintree, Chuck Templeton, who started OpenTable. And he was so good. I would call him when I had a problem. And he could get up to speed within two or three minutes of context. And then all he'd do would be to ask me questions. And he would never give me advice. He would never poke in.

He just simply would say, I know you have the answer. Let me help you find it. And within 10, 15 minutes, I'd be done. I'd be off the call. But he was so good at knowing what questions to ask. And so I've tried to copy him in terms of when I deal with people.

I just ask questions and let them figure it out on their own. What type of questions are you looking to ask? And what are you listening for to make sure you ask those questions? I'm basically trying to find their blind spots, the assumptions they're baking into their process. So I guess at Braintree, I use this example all the time, the monkey story, which is one of my favorites. There's five monkeys in a room. There's a ladder that goes up to a basket of bananas. One monkey tries to go up to get the bananas, and it gets sprayed with cold water as do the other monkeys.

And so every time a monkey tries to climb up the ladder to get the bananas, they all get sprayed with cold water. And so they learn this behavior. And so they pull out one monkey, put a new monkey in. The new monkey tries to go up and grab the bananas. And, of course, they all get sprayed by cold water. So the monkeys try to grab any new monkey who tries to go up the ladder to get the bananas. And they learn this behavior. So finally you have five new monkeys in the cage, none of which have ever been sprayed by cold water.

But every time a monkey tries to go up the ladder, they grab them and pull them back. And so the moral of the story was don't be a monkey. And so in questioning people, we do so many things in life that we have no idea why we do them. And when we can't solve problems, it's because we've packed into that so much stuff. And so someone with a clear sheet of paper can identify those things. So I try to focus in on what are you missing in your thought process that would change how you would tackle this problem. I love that. Just so I can get back to the town hall meeting, is there any questions that you would open the town hall meeting with? Would you say, hey, what's not working or what are you not happy with or what's upsetting you?

Were there a set of questions or did you just open the floor? I opened the floor and I would prompt. I would say, what's on your minds? What's bothering you? Again, I knew what was going on. I'd heard it. And so I would sometimes tease small things. But, I mean, for example, I encourage people to criticize me.

Because if it was cool to criticize me, it was okay to bring up just about everything else. And so... And they didn't get fired when they criticized you? No. I mean, I applauded them. I openly congratulated them and told them I really appreciated it. I would take responsibility for the things I messed up.

And I tried to set the culture that no one was above reproach and no one was above any responsibility. They were safe in expressing whatever they wanted to express. That's really powerful leadership, I think. That's cool that you set that example. What about your current mentors? Do you have any current mentors that you lean onto for guidance or that you're inspired by? I just have this great group of friends that I get with that are fellow entrepreneurs working on hard things. And our communication, it's like – I guess I would say with a person off the street, we may have like a 56K connection in our ability to understand each other. With these other entrepreneurs, it's like a gig.

and our ability to understand each other with these other entrepreneurs, it's like a gig. We just understand each other so well and so fast, and we have the same underlying life experiences that allow us to communicate at such an effective layer. And that is the only advice I do give to people, really, is that surround yourself by exceptional people, people who, when you walk away, you've got a spring in your step, and you feel like you just have to go out and work harder. You want to do more, be more. And so I'd say that probably is the – when I'm with these people, I feel that way. And that's the way I want others to feel when they're with me.

And so I would say that that's probably it. What about your daily practices and engaged and have passion and energy when you're around the most inspiring, wealthy, successful entrepreneurs in the world? I mean, what do you do to stay sharp every day? Yeah, I love two things. I love reading. I read voraciously. Secondly, I love to find people that I can ask questions of for hours and just figure out how they understand the world, how they came to certain conclusions, what they're studying and what they know, what they're exploring. I'm just fascinated by knowledge and understanding. I want to hear how other people exist.

And so those two are probably, I think, the most rewarding in terms of knowledge acquisition. That's cool. What do you believe you've been avoiding in your life to get you to the next level of whatever level that is, whether that's relationships or your next venture that you're working on now or your health? Is there anything you've been avoiding to get to whatever the next level is and what is that? That's a great question. get to whatever the next level is, and what is that? That's a great question. I think over the past couple years, I've become much more introspective around my own shortcomings and issues and problems and whatever comes from childhood.

And I think I was oblivious to it before, thinking that somehow I was unscathed by life. to it before, thinking that somehow I was unscathed by life. But as I look at myself closely, I think I've found a lot of value in deep examination and being comfortable with the inherent chaos that it means to be human. That somehow we think when we look at someone across the table that their life is put together and that they're okay and that only we, only I am filling this overwhelming chaos in my life with all the things that feel disjointed and out of my control and that concern me. I think just getting to that point where I'm okay with that element of chaos in my life and I'm okay being human and everyone else is the same as me and that I can relate with them on that level, I think it's been probably the most liberating thing for me and was probably the biggest thing

that held me back for the longest time. Do you have a daily practice about being aware of what you've been avoiding or the things holding you back? Is there anything that you do to practice self-awareness? Do you have a meditation practice or is it just kind of come and go whenever you're recognizing it? No, I do try to meditate daily. I also journal daily. So I love to write. And when I write, ideas come out of my brain that don't come out in the form of words,

which I've always thought was interesting. Right. Okay. What's, you know, you've, in the financial entrepreneur world, there's not really much farther you can go. I mean, $800 million, I million, I don't know how much more money you need to make to really retire. It sounds like you've achieved that goal. So what does someone at your level do for the rest of your life? What's the vision that you

have now once you've fulfilled this financial retirement dream? You've done it. What's the vision now? How do you see yourself impacting the world? At 21, I had this raw desire to go out and improve people's lives, but I really didn't know what that meant. And so in college, I looked at the normal opportunities like the United Nations Model Council or working in Africa or all the endeavors you typically see in a college-type environment. And none of them really spoke to me. And so while I was building my companies over the next decade or so, I thought about this almost daily. And I spent an enormous amount of time studying science and technology and wondering about where the human race was going. And that was specifically focused on the technologies that we had at our disposal.

And I think the uniqueness of our time and place in the history of humanity is that we have these incredibly powerful tools of creation. For example, like computer software and biology and artificial intelligence, virtual reality, robotics. We can literally program any kind of world we can imagine. For example, we just in the past couple of decades kind of world we can imagine. I mean, for example, like we just in the past couple of decades have proven that we can program biology. So your biology, I'm biology, the world runs on biology. We can program that. And it's a stunning revelation. And so the most pressing question in my mind is what kind of world are we going to build? And as I contemplated this, I set up a fund called the OS Fund, and I allocated $100 million of my personal capital to invest in entrepreneurs and scientists who are working on humanity's most vexing challenges and greatest opportunities focused on these types of tools.

And so we've made quite a few investments, and it ranges from genomics to artificial intelligence to space. And it ranges from genomics to artificial intelligence to space. But I really think there's an enormous opportunity for humanity to do amazing things, to build what we can imagine. And I'd like to try to play a role in that for a positive outcome. What do you want to see us build the most in the next 10 to 20 years? What do you want to see us as humans create for ourselves in the future? Well, for example, one company, Human Longevity, I'm invested in. They're trying to radically extend healthy human life, trying to make 120 the new 60.

Or a company called Ginkgo Bioworks is trying to make biology an even more predictable, making the predictability of biological programming a reality. So, for example, instead of growing acres and acres and acres of fields of rose petals, you can produce the same oil in a lab just by designing an organism that's better on the environment, that produces a more economical output. So just things like that that basically would allow us to live longer, healthier lives, enable us to solve some bigger challenges around the environment and how we produce materials. Other companies, for example, in space exploration,

one company's long-term vision is to try to mine an asteroid. So on an asteroid, you have precious metals and you also have water. So you could build a 7-Eleven in space for refueling. Wow. That's crazy. Okay. It sounds like you're up

to some big things. I love this. If you could extend your life 100 years beyond its expected lifespan, would you want to do that? Unquestionably. Why?

There's an infinite supply of knowledge and skills to acquire that I find the greatest happiness when I'm learning and when I'm doing. What about when you're being? Yeah, I suppose that's something I should probably get better at because we are human beings. Yeah. It's a funny topic though, because for example, human life extension is a very controversial thing, and I didn't realize this initially. I mean, if I were to ask someone the question, do you want to live tomorrow? Yes.

Do you want to live next week? Yes. Next month? Yes. Five years from now? Yes. Okay, at what point in time are you going to wake up and say, I just don't want to live? Well, I mean, maybe if someone's really decrepit and old, but I mean, people, I think most people enjoy living.

But when we bring up this topic of do you want to extend healthy life to 120, people say, well, there's already too many of us on the earth. 70 years is totally adequate to live. People break down in society. So I mean I think it's a great point and it's a really viable conversation that we just fundamentally have disagreement on what is good and what is desirable, which I think is all the more relevant as we're playing with these really powerful technologies that allow us to create radically different worlds than what we're seeing today. That's interesting. Who's the oldest person to live right now? Do you know? I don't.

The number 123 sticks in my mind, but that's a guess. That's crazy. It's crazy how long we've been able to extend our lifespan in the last 50 years just with all the health practices we're following. What do you believe is the main components of extending life naturally? This company I've invested in, one of the biggest breakthroughs we had in our longevity was a couple hundred years ago with germ theory when we figured out bacteria cause infection. And then we made vaccinations and sterilization, and that basically extended healthy human life, I believe, from mid-40s to mid-70s. It was a radical extension. And that is now backfiring on us a little bit because now we have superbugs, and so we've used too many antibiotics and whatnot. But this company is using the power of genomics, our genome, and machine learning to figure out how we can actually work with our own biology to cure age-related diseases and either slow or reverse the aging process.

So I think that we will create natural biological tools that will have the potential of radically extending our lives. I love this. I've got a few questions left for you that I want to ask. I want to make sure we respect our time. This has been powerful so far. But before I ask those questions, what is the main place that we should be connecting

with you online or that you want us to stay up to date with? Where can we find you the best? Primarily on Twitter. I'm at Brian underscore Johnson with a Y. Okay. Awesome. And make sure to check out Brian's site as well. I'll have this all linked up in the show notes for you guys, but check out everything he's doing. It's extraordinary. A few final questions, Brian, and I really appreciate your time and your wisdom here. If you could have, you know, let's say you're 200 years old. It's the last day for you.

And you get to leave behind three books to the world. That would be the books that you say everyone needs to read these? What would those three books be? I would say Ernest Shackleton's Voyage, Endurance. So the book, I think, is called Endurance, Shackleton's Epic Voyage. And it's a trans-imperial Antarctic explorer. And the book is of value to me because it teaches – it tells the story of one of the most audacious adventures ever undertaken and the tenaciousness that they maintained in surviving. in surviving.

And so the message to me, the moral of the story for me is that we can dare to do audacious things, and we can be bold in our endeavors, and that when we inevitably encounter difficulties and heartbreak and setback, that we can overcome them with with perseverance and then two i'd probably say a good man a book written by mark shriver by his dad sarge shriver who served in i think both the johnson and kennedy administrations and he was a a driving force behind the peace corps it's his son is writing a letter to his father about what a good man it basically it's a love letter to his father about what a remarkable human being he was to his children, to his friends, his coworkers. Professionally, it's such a touching book about what a powerful force a good human being can have in this world. And it's a reminder to me of what I would like to contribute to the

world. I wonder what my children will say about me. Will I have added value in their life? Will I have been meaningful? Was I there when they needed me? And I think third, Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. And I think what I like about that book is the driving principle of my life is that we literally have the ability to author our existence. And that's very true for entrepreneurs. We can start whatever companies we want, hire whatever people we desire, the culture we create, the product we build. We can literally author our own world. In fact, I have a mural in my office. I commissioned a graffiti artist to paint it and

gandalf is on one side and harry potter's on the other and they're pointing their staff and their wand in the middle with this exploding energy and there's this open book with a pen and above it is the word dream written in graffiti and i use these characters because they resonate with my children but the idea is that jr tolkien and J.K. Rowling used the tools of words to literally create worlds out of nothing that we've all inhabited. And the Ishuas have the power to do it. And Viktor Frankl's book is a reminder that we can author our world, even when we think the most dire circumstances would be superimposed upon us. We have that power. And so the three of them combined would compel me to pursue audacious

things, to author my own existence, and to try to be an acceptable human being to all those around me. That is a great response. I love that. Thank you for those three books. I'm going to have to check out your painting as well in your office sometime next time I'm in New York, I'm going to have to come sneak in and check it out. That sounds incredible. What are you most grateful for in your life recently? I'd say the opportunity to work on hard things. I crave hard work. I crave hard problems. And I'm just grateful that I get a shot at working on things that I find meaningful. And even if I fell, I feel fulfilled and motivated and energized by the opportunity to try to do something meaningful. And if you could, and again, you're 200 years old right now. And if you could leave behind three truths, three things you know to be true about the world where everything you've ever created has been erased and removed from time, but you got to leave behind these three truths, what would you write down on a piece of paper and give to the world?

and give to the world. Author your existence, care without restraint, and pursue with audaciousness the boldest idea you can conceive. Those are three powerful truths. Thanks for sharing that. I've got one final question for you, Brian. Before I do,

I want to acknowledge you for a moment. I want to acknowledge you for a moment. I want to acknowledge you for your passion and your relentless pursuit of chasing the hard things down and giving of your time and energy. You are one of the biggest humble servants there is by going after these hard things that no one else really wants to tackle. Maybe just a handful of people are tackling, and you're putting yourself in challenging situations on a day-to-day basis to strive to learn more, to get better, so that you can impact the world in a powerful, meaningful way.

So I acknowledge you for everything you're up to, and it's been a pleasure to connect. I have one final question for you and I want to make sure everyone goes back and, and follows Brian on Twitter and everywhere else online because he's up to amazing things. Uh, the final question is what's your definition of greatness?

Whatever one wants to assign to it. I don't, I don't believe there's, I don't believe there's a single answer to that. I believe it's created in everyone's minds and lives. Okay. Do you have your definition? I know the things that make me happy and bring me fulfillment,

but those are not things I'd want to superimpose on someone else and suggest to them that that's the metric by which they would be happy and fulfilled. Okay. We'll leave it at that. Brian Johnson, I appreciate you so much for coming on, my man. This has been a pleasure. It's been a gift. And I'm so inspired by your vision and your message. And I hope to connect with you in person soon, my friend. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you. There you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I thoroughly enjoyed it. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you. There you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Brian was a pleasure having him on and learning about his triumphs, his struggles, and everything in between. And his vision for the future inspires me to become better at what I'm currently doing in my life. So big thank you to Brian for coming on. Make sure to spread the message about Brian and about this episode using the link lewishouse.com slash 219. You can get all the show notes, all the information about Brian there back at lewishouse.com slash 219. Again, make sure to share this with your friends as I know they'll be inspired to hear this. But again, thank you everyone for being here.

This has been one of the most exciting things I've ever done in my life is getting to spend time with these incredible human beings, learn about what it takes to be great from them, and then share it with all of you. And it's because of all of you listening right now that this is possible. So from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you. I appreciate you. So from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you. I appreciate you.

I appreciate you trusting me with your time because I know there are thousands of podcasts out there and you decide to spend your time on this podcast. And it really means a lot to me. And it makes me just hungrier to make this better and find inspiring people for you to keep wanting to come back. So thank you guys from the bottom of my heart. I love you. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.