The School of Greatness - 303 Jason Wachob on Creating a Wealth of Wellness in Your Life

Episode Date: March 15, 2016

"I do not believe in a one-size-fits-all approach to health and wellness." - Jason Wachob If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/303

This is episode number 303 with founder of mindbodygreen.com, Jason Wacom. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome, everyone, to this episode number 303.

Thank you so much for being here. I am so pumped because I just, I feel like I have like the luckiest life because I get to sit across like I have like the luckiest life because I get to sit across the table from just brilliant minds and pick their brain and learn about their mistakes and their success stories. And I get to share them with all of you. This is a favorite part of my day is when I get to make these connections. I get to grow myself personally and then I get to share with all of you what I learned

along the way. And I just feel so blessed and grateful that you guys continue to show myself personally, and then I get to share with all of you what I learn along the way. And I just feel so blessed and grateful that you guys continue to show up and listen and support this podcast. It means the world to me. And I just, I feel like such a blessed human being. So thank you for spreading the message. Again, we are in 303 episodes now, and it just keeps getting better. in 303 episodes now, and it just keeps getting better.

Each week, I meet new, amazing people, and I continue to feel like the luckiest guy alive. So thank you for being a part of this journey with me. And our guest today, his name is Jason Wacub. He is the founder and CEO of MindBodyGreen.com, which is a huge health and wellness site that gets over 12 million unique visitors a month, has held over 4,000 contributors. It's really the authority in the health and wellness space online. And he's been featured in the New York Times, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, and Vogue, and all over the place.

He has a BA in history from Columbia University where he played varsity basketball for four years there. And in his book, Wealth, How I Learned to Build a Life, Not a Resume, is out right now. And we cover a lot of things about his experiences and where he came from and where he is now, including how he shifted from earning $800,000 a year as a trader on Wall Street to starting his own business with MindBodyGreen and why he left that lucrative job on Wall Street to doing MindBodyGreen. Working in a company where you are passionate about and really how to come from passion and skill and not just focus on the

money up front and why that's important. The importance of company culture. I don't care if you have a company of hundreds of employees or three employees. The importance of building that and Jason talks about how he's done it. Also, establishing a trustworthy brand. How to build and establish a trustworthy brand and what it's like to work with your wife or partner in your relationship in business. He covers how he handles this working with his wife in his company as well.

This and so much more on today's episode. Thank you guys for being here. All the show notes, the full video interview back at lewishouse.com slash 303. And without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one, the only Jason Wacub. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about our guest. His name is Jason Wacub. He's got a new book out called Wealth. Make sure to check it out right now. It's Wealth, How I Learned to Build a Life, Not a Resume. Thanks so much for being here. I appreciate it.

Thanks so much for having me, Lewis. It's an honor. Pumped to have you. I was in your office, MindBodyGreen office, probably eight months ago or something, talking about my books. Now you're here talking about your book. I'm going to place it here so people can see it in the video as well. You got this new book out. I'm curious, what inspired you to write this book in the first place?

I'm 41. Two years ago, my 39th birthday, I woke up in the morning and I decided I wanted to write a blog post. I wrote a blog post, 39 life lessons i've learned in 39 years stream of consciousness consciousness just sort of happened uh posted incredibly well went viral and uh a couple days later a literary agent wrote to the general inbox of my buddy green and said you know read your blog posts i think there's a book here uh you know love to talk to you and so i never wrote back i thought like yeah this isn't a book it's a blog i'm not naive to this stuff i got enough going on uh i don't have time for this so never wrote back and then a couple weeks later she sent a package to the office with a letter saying here's a book you should read this book i think your book could be in similar structure

and format and take a look at it and so i was traveling the next day actually going to ohio uh-huh and i read the book on a flight and i after i read the book i was like holy cow i think i can write a book wow okay and then sign with her and that was it so the blog post i never really intended to write a book and it just happened what was the book she gave you it It was Regina Brett, God Never Blinks. Okay. Like 50 life lessons from 50 something – Similar type of book. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And supposedly like a great bestseller written from a woman in Ohio, wrote like a daily column. Wow. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So that was like, okay, let's do this. Yeah.

Yeah. Never met with another agent and just started writing. Okay. Now you played basketball at Columbia, right? Columbia University. Yes, sir. For how many years? Four years.

Four years. And you got injured too, right? You had a career injury? Lots of injuries that I'm still walking around with. I'm in one piece. Exactly. But did you have an injury that ended everything for you? No.

It was a number of little things. I had a third-degree ankle sprain, which has still screwed up my right ankle for life dislocated shoulders uh started to develop back pain but didn't realize how bad it was until it really hit me later on in life which were also six what six seven yeah pretty tall yeah so i walked out of that feeling pretty good that i could i I was in one piece. Yes. I do yoga now. I'm retired.

Yes, a professional yogi. Yes. Yeah. Okay. What do you think was the biggest lesson you learned from your sports experience? God, so much. You know, I talk about this a lot at work. I think I learned more from playing basketball in college than I ever did in school.

Of course. Or about being an entrepreneur or CEO. Really? Yeah. Things – I think little things like you take for granted like showing up on time. Of course, yeah. Can't show up late at practice. Right, work ethic, passion.

You can't turn it on and off. My coach would always get on us. If you were dogging it in practice, you can't just go through the motions and practice and turn it on the game. You've got to play hard all the time. I think I learned a lot about losing how you handle losing when i got to columbia we were terrible uh we lost a lot right and uh you know my coach armand hill who i talk about in the book who's now with the clippers uh you know he would get on us he'd say listen a couple things guys like one like losing says a lot about your character like how do you handle losing

can you rise above it do you blame people very easy to blame other people when you're losing do you get used to it do you become complacent you know you can't it's got to upset you but how do you react you do you react uh as a team do you grow stronger together uh and leaving columbia we actually started to win felt good about that became pretty decent and just you know I think learned a lot about how you handle adversity and losing very easy

when you're winning when things are going great but how you react to adversity dealing with losing it's interesting because I don't know if you watch UFC at all I do not I don't usually watch it but Conor McGregor is fascinating to watch him talk and fight and just how he positioned himself as a branding. It's incredible for me.

I watched his last fight where he lost, where he hasn't lost in three years or something. He talks so much about how he's going to win every time. The way he handled it was incredible yeah like the way he was like i'm going to learn from this i'm going to take it like a man and uh my competitor was incredible and big props to him and this is just going to make me stronger yeah i was like that's a great way to look at as opposed to uh well i jumped up to weight class he jumped up to weight class as opposed i jumped up to weight classes excuse, excuse. He was like, nope, he beat me. I want to learn from a good letter.

Accountability. That's it. And it was shocking, but I guess it shouldn't be a surprise to see that. But that's it. A lot of people, especially entrepreneurs, will blame things or they'll blame whatever else is happening on. You got to let it sting, take the lesson and move on. That's it. Yeah.

Who was the most influential person in your life growing up? God, a lot of them. You know, I don't know if there's one, you know, my mother, deeply influential. Parents divorced when I was young. You know, my mother was everything. You know, I think I never, you know know something i definitely don't take for granted is this idea you know as a kid my mother was a type of parent who who led me to believe i could accomplish anything you know if you work hard you can do it everything's possible and uh you know

something you don't realize as a kid but like that's really powerful not everyone has that and i think uh you know i became an eternal optimist uh she she mentally trained me to be an optimist whether I knew it or not. And it's something a lot of people don't have. And so she was deeply influential. I'd say her and then various coaches along the way. I think you always learn more from the bad ones than the good ones sometimes. Oh, my gosh. I had some horrible coaches.

I had some really bad. One of my college football coaches, the first one, he just constantly yelled at me, constantly swore at me, constantly like broke me down. And I was just like, this is not working for me. Yeah. You're not getting the best out of me by doing this. There's some coaches that know how to talk to each person on a team in a way that's going to resonate to get them to be their best. Whereas this coach just talks the same way to everyone. Yep.

For some people, it might work, but I think an effective leader learns how to communicate to each person and understand where they're at. No one-size-fits-all approach to anything in life. Exactly. So what was the most important lesson you learned from your mom? Was it to be positive? I think it's something I talk a lot about in the book and it's a big part of my life is having a gratitude practice. And this idea, you know, I remember as a kid, like, you know, complaining about something. You know, I thought, you know, someone over here had it better than we did. And my mother, you know, spoke of the parable, the boy with no shoes cried until he met the boy with no feet.

Right. And this idea of really being grateful for what you have, a really important lesson. There's, you know, especially in life, I'm a type A, you're a type A, you know, we're used to, you know, you're working hard, you're kicking ass, you're taking names, you have goals, you're used to reaching them. But it's also this idea of balancing that with just being grateful for what you have. You know, it's very easy to get lost in that. And I think there's always someone who has more, whether it's money or I always say a perceived better relationship. Because I think with relationships, everyone always thinks someone has a better relationship. You know, better abs,

better, bigger home. And I think it's very easy to get caught up in that. So how do you balance that? Like if you're a person who's really passionate, who has goals, who works hard, how do you passion that with this idea of just being grateful? I think it's a balance. And I think we all struggle with it. And so I learned a lot about that, like this idea of pushing versus pulling and being thankful.

Sure. Do you have a ritual routine every single day that yes with gratitude but everything else like you said yoga what is that yes so literally i wake up and i repeat thank you thank you over and over my head mentally silently i just have done it for years uh you know i i just do it with it before before my my feet touch the ground. I repeat thank you over and over. I literally have it on our wall at home. I have a gratitude mural from our friend Peter Tunney, the artist. Gratitude with two Ts. He says gratitude is an attitude. Have that at our office at work. So I see that the first thing in the morning, I repeat thank you and thank you over and over. And then I

brush my teeth and I meditate for 20 minutes. Then I'm off to the day. Off to the office. Yeah, because it's one of those things you don't want to, especially living in the city, you don't want to wake up and next thing you know, you're running late and you're catching the subway and someone bumps you. Then you know, asshole, I missed the train. I'm late. Then 9 a.m., it's like mentally you're in a different space. Your day is ruined.

You've already messed up. Yeah. So what happened with you after basketball and after Columbia? What did you go through before Mind, Body, and Green? Sure. So keep in mind I graduated in 1998. So back then, there weren't really startups. There was no entrepreneurs.

It didn't really exist in that sense. There weren't blogs, really, or websites. No, there was nothing. I remember when we just got email, I'll call me. What is this? We can email professors and tell them we're going to turn the paper in late? This is fantastic. And so back then, guys either went to Wall Street.

They maybe became a lawyer if they had grades or if they had an aptitude for science maybe they went to med school uh i didn't have grades and i didn't come for money and so i was like i'll go to wall street i need to make some money here pay off my school loans like i saw money as freedom as money was something i always wanted uh so became a trader and uh you know learn pretty quickly in my second year made eight hundred pretty quickly. My second year, made $800,000, which second year. Second year? Yeah. 25-year-old kid making $800,000.

That's pretty good. It was good. This was in 2000. Wow. And so saw the NASDAQ go from like $1,800 to $5,000. I saw it go back down too. But at any rate. You were living like a king

yes i was living in a small apartment in chelsea i didn't spend money on anything wow i spent i spent a lot of money on food and restaurants and a lot of a lot of booze you're probably stacking the money then saving a lot of drinking and going out okay so maybe not saving you blew a lot of it. I did. It lasted a long time though. That's good. And so learned very quickly, you know,

here was something I always wanted to make money and then boom, I have this, you know, I remember it was my second month I made like $280,000. Huge month.

280 grand in a month. Yeah. Second month working. I still have yet to... Second month working. No, no, no, no, no, no. Second month and second... It was the second month i still have i still have yet to second month working no no no no second month and second it was the second month of uh that year yeah oh wow where i made that 800 um and so at the same time my relationship was falling apart and so i was a mess i was miserable and it was such a contrast it's like okay on one hand i always wanted to make money i worked hard

and it was finally you know arriving so to speak paid off all my college debt you know bought my mom a car all this great stuff and then on the other hand like this relationship which i thought was the relationship was falling apart and i was a mess and i'm like this money buys happiness thing it's just not there i would have given anything at that moment to go back just to making what i was making and have this relationship be intact wow and so it was a big eye-opener you know like i'm not happy um and so that happened and you know i did like trading it was a great experience you know felt it was like playing sports again every day was a game i like the competitive nature it was it was great but the guys involved or something yeah it was all like a lot of great people uh and then 9-11 happened a couple years later and then i was

sort of done like i had one foot out the door at that moment i just you know felt the yearning for to do something else you know i thought that i wasn't really creating value in the world i was just making money and and like i started leaving work early you know read about people you know starting businesses that uh they were passionate about and this idea of life and work becoming one. And that wasn't me. I was checked out. I was already out the door. And so I decided that I needed to move on.

What do you think are the building blocks of wealth? Wow. You know, I think that wealth is a blend of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, and environmental well-being. And so, you know, I think the way I see true wellness, it's this blend. I don't think it's just, you know, self-help. I don't think it's just fitness or just nutrition or just the environment or just business. I think all these things are interconnected uh becoming our best self and so i sort of leave like the building

box i think as we touched on i don't think there's any i don't think there's a one-size-fits-all approach to anything and so i think that each individual has to decide, you know, which elements are important to them, where they're lacking, where they're not, and decide, you know, where they need to make change in their life. In a lot of ways, you know, I think wealth is the book that I wish I had 15 years ago when I was going through this, where I would just go to Barnes and Noble and just read anything I could read on becoming a better person, a healthier person. And, you know, I think that was important to me when I did this. Yeah.

How do we reach people who aren't in this space? Right, right. So how did Mind Body Green come about then? Sure. So I left Wall Street, became an entrepreneur, had some things that didn't work. The cliche is true. You learn more from the failures. And so I was running an organic chocolate chip cookie company that was in every Whole Foods in the country. Sounds amazing.

Yes and no. Cookies were fantastic. The business of making cookies was hard, huh? The business, and it's the only business, the natural products business, where what you invoice is not what you get paid. Right. Right. Yeah. That's hilarious. It's fascinating.

And you don't get paid for six months. Oh, God. Net 30 is like net 90. Oh, my goodness. It's tough business. So I was running that business and doing a lot of flying that year. I flew almost 150,000 miles domestic. I'm 6'7".

That's misery. It is. You have a back problem just from that year. Well, yeah. So my back got really bad. So I had two extruded discs pressing on my sciatic nerve. So L4, L5, S1. I could see you speaking.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'm 6'4", and I know the pain of flying just at 6'4", so I can only imagine. I'm already against the thing, you know, if I'm a flight coach. Luckily, you know, I've got so many points that I get upgraded almost every time now. I do that all the time now. I don't wait. It's just not worth it. I'd rather spend an extra $500 than be in pain and miserable.

Yeah. So that was me. For a year. Could not walk. Oh, my gosh. So excruciating static on my right leg. Could not walk. And then when you're going to meetings on these trips, you're probably not fully present.

You're not fully healthy. No, your back's bad. You can't. It's everything. It's everything. Wow. So I went to a doctor. He did an MRI, an x-ray, and said, you have these extruded discs.

You need back surgery. Not negotiable. So I'm like, okay, let me get a second opinion. Yeah, I would too. So I got a second opinion. He said the same thing. Back surgery, maybe a cortisone shot will help. I tried that, didn't do anything.

And he said, maybe some yoga or therapy could help, but you still need surgery. So I was like, okay, I'll try yoga. I'll see what happens. So I started doing some really light yoga, 10, 15 minutes in the morning, at night. really light yoga you know 10 15 minutes in the morning at night uh started to explore like stress sleep nutrition the environment all these things affected health and so this is all happening simultaneously and while you're starting to feel better yeah so i'm starting to feel better and then over the course of weeks you know starting to walk better the pain is moving up the leg which is always a thing with back pain like the further south it goes the worse the further north it goes right right uh and then over the course of months

i'm fine so i've never gotten surgery no surgery totally fine to yoga practice sleep nutrition nutrition you know i was a guy who you know i looked great at the time but i was a mess like fast food everywhere i i so i ate so much steak and i still eat meat but not a lot of it uh i I ate so much steak at the Palm Steakhouse on the west side of Manhattan that my caricature is on the wall. Wow. One year. So it's like Adam Sandler, Joe Namath and me. No way. Yeah.

Wow. That's how much steak. So my idea of health was steak and like 10 martinis. Oh my gosh. And so started eating more plants, like started to look at like the power of spirituality and the environment and all these things were interconnected. And I was like, whoa, everyone's got this thing wrong. Like my mind was blown because this happened to me. And the other thing, like a spiritual level, you know, I started, I found out about the chakra system.

And I read something like the root chakra, the lower back is associated with like money worries. And like I was broke at the time and getting engaged i had no money to buy the ring i'm like oh my god this stuff all makes sense it's not crazy well it's like one of those things where you say things like out there a new age then when it hits home you're like holy shit there's what else is what you know and you can't get enough of it and uh and i was like everyone's got health wrong everyone every print magazine's about vanity and weight loss. And it's this lifestyle. It's mind, body, green.

No one's talking about this. We're like the normal people, like me. And then launched the site and the rest is history. Wow. What year was this? So 2007, we had the idea for the site. I found my co-founders, Tim and Carver. And we were both doing like different things. And it was in beta, like a side gig.

And then 2009 is when we officially launched. Really? Yeah, September of 2009. So we've been at this for a while. Started with a blog post today. At this for a while, but also not that long at the same time. You know, if you look at it, it's like,

you know, you've been at, what is it, seven years now you've been at it? But you've built an incredible business. You've got how many employees now? 33, I think. 33 employees plus many more contributors, I'm assuming. Yeah, 4,000. 4,000 contributing writers.

Yeah. Amazing. And how much content are you putting out every day now? I think we do 12 to 14 pieces a day. Gotcha. You do events. You've got courses. You've got to expand many different things now.

And how do you feel over the last seven years by constantly living this practice, sharing this information, making other people better? Sure. How does it feel? It's awesome. I love what I do. You know, I think, you know, energetically from a people perspective, you know, I think you are a combination of the five people you hang out with most. of people you hang out with most and in the past you know five or six years i've gotten to meet like some of the most amazing awesome people like yourself and health and wellness like doing amazing things and you meet these people ritual and yeah we're friends and we hang out and like

you just can't help but like feel the energy and be inspired like it's just it's like you know someone over here it's like you're writing another book and he's doing this. It's like, what are you doing? It's like, awesome. It's just you can't versus like in some environments with friends, it's like, what are you doing? How are you going to make money? Or what is that? It's just a different conversation. So, like I'm continually inspired and fulfilled by the community, which is just awesome.

So, it's been great. And then growing a business has been fun and great and challenging and all that stuff. I think one thing personally I definitely have to be careful of is I love what I do so much. And my wife works with me. I work a lot. Could be 100.47. So it's like I've had moments from like all this wellness is making me sick.

That's hilarious. I've got to find time for myself. It's great if I'm you know helping people change their lives but i gotta also take care of myself make sure you continue to do your yoga practice right meditation yoga you know going to the gym i've evolved and i will continue to evolve but like something you never want to i think a lot of people in wellness have that problem too it's like they love what they do and they work so much but it's like what happened to my practice yeah right whatever that may be.

Interesting. Yeah, I'll find myself. You know, there's certain things that my way of being is consistent with gratitude and acknowledgement and support and appreciation. But sometimes I won't meditate every day. It's like, although I talk about the importance and the value of it all the time on here and I'm bringing on meditation experts. And sometimes I'll just do it at night and I won't do it in the morning. And it's like, well, I need to make sure that I continue to follow through on what we're talking about. It's easy to slip out of any of these things.

That's why I continue to have these conversations. If you probably weren't doing Mind, Mud, and Green, it might be easier for you to slip out of the practice of everything. Oh, yeah. If I weren't doing Mind, Mud, and green, I'd be doing yoga all day. I'd be doing meditation. Well, and then you could go the other way too. Yeah. You know, but it's that balance.

Yeah. What's been the most inspiring thing that's happened for you since starting the site? Wow. You know, I think the people, I think, you know, meeting so many people who are, you know, have healed themselves. Like people like Chris Carr, Joe Cross, Terry Walls. I could go on and on. Joe Cross is the juice guy, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Phenomenal. That's where I first met you, I think. Where I first saw you there. Yes. I didn't actually talk to you. The first sighting. The first sighting. I was like, I first saw you there. Yes. I didn't actually talk to you there. The first sighting. The first sighting. I was like, there's another giant in the room.

I can see him. Too funny. You know, just meeting people who have risen from an insurmountable circumstance. That's just always so fulfilling. And some of the letters, emails we get from people, they've changed their lives like that's you know it's like you see things like that it's like this is why we're doing what we're doing i just love that what's been the biggest challenge for you over the last six seven years got hiring scaling managing you know it's one thing when we first started out when it's like five people in our office where it's like do we

want to do this yes no can No. Can we do it? When do you think we can do it? Okay. Done. Versus setting a meeting, setting an agenda. Structure. Structure. Scaling.

Rules. Headcount. HR. Process. Organizations start to form where I have reports and they have reports. So cultures develop within many cultures and how are they all aligned with the culture I want and what type of people work out. People who are good employees from maybe 1 to 10

aren't great from 30 to 50 and then 50 to 100. How do we get tighter in the interview process? What are the things we look for? Now we have data of people who have succeeded and who haven't. So it's like what are the things, what are the questions we ask? What are the things we look for like now we have data people have succeeded and who haven't so it's like what are the things what are the questions we ask like what are the qualities we look for what are the questions we ask and how do we make sure we get the right people because we could have the greatest mission the greatest product the greatest everything but if we don't have the right people not going to succeed and so how do we find and i think we're getting quite good at that.

And then managing is something I think no one inherently is a great manager. It's something you have to work at and learn. And so that's been fun and challenging. And it's fun and challenging. What's the mission for you right now? I think it's this idea of helping people live their best life. to me it's through this lifestyle mind body green i think it's you know my money green by design it's it's it's it's one word not three it's all connected and you know i think just just having someone living living their best life when it's just self-help focus sort of misses the other components

it's this blend once again mental, emotional, and environmental well-being. So starting with that broad mission and then giving people the best content, then people helping them live that way. So it's online courses. You read an article about meditation. You want to learn meditation, we got a class. You want to experience, you know, connect with community. You know, we do events. Someday we'll probably do products, but things to help you live better.

So I give you the tools. If you want to become a better person, we want to be able to give you everything. How do you build a culture that isn't focused on business growth, but more the things that you're teaching people to live every single day? You're teaching and put out content about lifestyle and health and wellness, but you've got to pay bills. You need both. And I'm sure their salaries aren't cheap for everyone that you have on your team. So how do you lead in a way that gets people to step up

and be productive every single day so that they're bringing back 2 to 10x whatever you're paying them, but also to make sure that they're living a healthy life. Sure. So something we've learned in the hiring process, I go back to basketball coaches used to always say you can't teach height. You can't, no. So I think for us in hiring and culture, you can't teach. You can get a little faster, but you can't get a little bit taller.

No. So what I say is you can't teach passion and work ethic. So how do we find people who are really passionate about what we're doing? And then how do you find people who work hard? If you don't, either you work hard or you don't. You're lazy or you work hard. Right. And maybe as a kid you can come out of that. But as an adult, either have it or don't. You're lazy or you work hard. Right. And maybe as a kid you can come out of that, but

as an adult, you know, either have it or you don't. So I think for us it starts with, you know, hiring people who fit that profile. You know, then you talk about like, do they have a certain skill set? Can they do the job? But like, are they passionate? If you get people who are passionate and work hard, I'd take that any day over the week for

someone who's got a great skill set who's lazy and is a pain paying the ass. It's like the guy on the basketball team that just always dove on the floor for the loose ball. Yeah. And always was there for the rebound and always took the charge. It's like you'll take him on your team all day long. Yep. Yep.

Any coach would take that player. Yeah. And so it's finding that. And then my job, I'm steering the ship. Are we going the right way? – are we going the right way? Is the ship going the right way? Is the plan sound? Do we have the right people on the ship? And then making sure we're going where we need to go.

Right. How much of the success of the site do you credit towards your team? A lot of it. You know, I think you're only good as your team and the community. And I think we have a team of 33 people. Everything we do depends on them. You can't operate a business if the CEO is gone and the wheels fall off the wagon. And then also the larger community.

Miami-Dade Green, I i think is the center of content community and commerce and largely community driven we have 4 000 contributors who write for us a lot of the best contributors are some of my best friends or people we go out to dinner with we hang out we do courses with them so they're a big part of this like how do we you know how do we shine a light on people who are who are doing great things how do we create revenue opportunities for them like that's important how do we give back like you people who are doing great things? How do we create revenue opportunities for them? That's important. How do we give back?

Giving back community, I think, means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I think community is in our DNA. It started when I was going through this. I didn't say, okay, how do we get community? Let's go get it. Where do we get some of that? I'd say I was smart enough to know I didn't know everything. I started asking questions and meeting people.

And next thing you know, they were blogging and meet more people. And then they started blogging. And it's this very authentic thing. And so they're a big part of this too. And it's been fun. Like Rich Roll, you mentioned. It's like I met Rich in 2010. I've known him for six years.

I've watched him grow and us grow. Before his book? Yeah, before his book. My wife, Colleen, went to Stanford and read about Rich in Stanford Magazine magazine wow i was like we should talk to this guy he's cool i'm like he's just another stanford swimmer he's for and she's like she did an interview with him my wife i was like this guy's awesome and you know seeing him grow and then us grow and then we collaborate and we both grow together like that stuff's just that's really awesome what's it like working with your wife it's good you know our problem is we actually work well together we don't sit next to each other

she's the chief brand officer and and one of the founding partner you know we work very differently we don't sit next to each other our problem is we're so passionate about what we do like this is work and life are really one um we have trouble turning it off we don't have kids yet hopefully we'll have kids this year um next year and so it's just the the phrase last work comment happens a lot with us what it was i mean let's like last work i got last word comment one last thing i have to say before you go to bed. It's hard for us to shut off because we just love what we do.

We're growing and so we're constantly thinking about it. I guess what else would you talk about if it wasn't work? I know. We joke that like, what did we talk about before we were together? Before My Money Green. We did all these other things. My back pain. But it's a great problem. We've gotten better a little

bit about that separation yeah it's great though like i think when you're you know i think passion values and work are aligned it's like magical like i it's pretty sweet i love it yeah what else do you look for right i mean what else is there i had the other thing where you just make the money make the money and then walked out and you were done and i just it wasn't for me what's your biggest fear you've got this big site sure thousands of contributors sure credibility sure sure name yeah all that stuff you know uh credible you know there's this great line uh you know it takes years to build trust seconds to lose in a lifetime to regain our brand our community our trust is everything so like it's you know how do we how do we you know be careful about that how do we cultivate that how do we grow and also at

scale like we've got 10 to 12 million unique visitors a month like we have serious scale like we've got 33 employees so like how do we how do we guard that how do we nurture that how do we grow that but also at scale i can do it but i can't do it for everyone or I could do it. So how does every employee like think the same way about the brand and what we're doing? And that's something we're really focused on. So what is your biggest fear then? That's why – so how do we maintain the DNA? I think that's every startup's fear.

How do you maintain that trust, that culture, the relationshipsna you know i think that's every every startup sphere you know how do you maintain that trust that culture the relationships you know as you grow how do you lose that you don't want to wake up someday and go in the office and be like what the hell happened like why are we doing this over here and who's that guy over there and right who ordered pizza like we don't you know what are we doing with pizza you know not that like that's a bad thing. Sure, pizza is fine every once in a while. But how do you maintain that? How does everyone as a culture grow in a way that I think is authentic to my metagreen? How does that drill down and also be sustainable, become a business and get great people? And so that's like a big thing.

How do you do that? You have to – and you can't micromanage that how do you set up the infrastructure how do you find the right people and then plug them in and build those pillars that strong foundation because if you're you know we want to build a skyscraper we want to do big things like the foundation's not set pillars aren't there sure you're gonna be patching up things you're gonna you're just never gonna be able to build it'll take you know so what's the biggest lesson you learned about yourself from writing this book uh it's a good question you know i i shared a lot i uh i tend not to do that in person maybe unless i really know you uh but what are two or three things that would shock people that you

wrote about in there that you shared you know god i was talking with uh amanda chantal bacon from moon juice today and uh she read the book and she was saying she was like i just kept on like thinking of you as this idea of like a a traitor playboy like getting smashed every night with women she's like i couldn't picture you as that or like you know doing stupid crap in high school and cheating and drug eating all that stuff um but i wanted to share that you know i think within within the world we live in today we're social media in a lot of ways is driven by Instagram. We're in a culture where people project perfection.

And that's nice, but, you know, no one's perfect. I wanted to show I'm a normal guy like a lot of people. You know, yeah, sure, I'm 6'7", but I'm a normal guy. Like I'm a normal guy that, you know, if you walked into a bar, you'd have a conversation with. Maybe we'd have a drink, a laugh, or what have you. And so I really wanted to to let people know who i was uh because i do think it's a problem when you know in this age of social media we're constantly only showing the good and perfection and and no one's perfect i'm far from perfect and i think shooting shooting for perfection is is dangerous and i think you know

it's this idea once again of what's the lifestyle, like what works for you. Like no one's perfect. Like I talk about, you know, just in diet in terms of like, yeah, sugar is toxic. Sugar is terrible. Sugar is a devil. But you know what? Sometimes I want a good donut. And that's okay.

I love donuts. You know, that's okay. And so it's just, you know, I want to show people it's okay. So even though you're promoting mind, body, green. Yeah, we're not perfect. You're not raw vegan. No, and I've tried. I've been vegan.

I've been paleo. I've been vegetarian. Like, yes, I believe in a plant-based diet like where I am today. Like I eat mostly plants. But like every once in a while, I'll have meat. I'll have, you know, I just, I'm a human. I'll have meat. I'll have salad.

You know, I just, I'm a human. And I think perfection, unless you've got a health, you know, some health issues, like lifestyle is the only thing that lasts and you got to find what works for you. Exactly. Yeah. What's your vision for the next five, six years? You've been around six years, seven years now. Yeah. So it's come a long way.

Yeah. It's evolved in many different, you probably didn't know you're going to have courses or events. Maybe you did. No. But what do you see happening in twice the amount of time sure sure uh how much how much traffic you get how many posts you're putting out what are you guys creating well that's a little two things so i'll talk about so on the macro level i think more of what we do so like more content better content a lot more courses. We're going to start to do trainings. Really exciting.

Become more of a platform to help awesome people like get their word out, have more of a conversation, which I think, you know, once again, community. How do we support community? Create revenue for community. Events. We love events. Connect with people. Like that's really important. Once again, sort of gets lost in this day and age.

And I think we'll do product at some point like not to just do product but like you got to give people the tools you know media is just one way of giving people tools to help themselves better but if there are products that can also go along with that that probably makes sense for us what type of product would you love to have you know i'd love to do you know a yoga mat you know work with someone awesome on do, you know, a yoga mat. You know, work with someone awesome on that. Or, you know, it's like one of the first questions I always get from a guy who, you know, starts starting yoga. Some of my older guy friends are, like, starting to, you know, feel the case of the 40s, so to speak. You know, like, I'm going to go to yoga.

What match should I get? So it would be great to collaborate with someone on that. Sure, sure. And so I think we want to do more of everything and also stay true to the mission. Like, we're never going to do anything just to do it. You know, what's the purpose? And then, you know, traffic, uniques, all that stuff. I actually think we're in an interesting time in media.

I think it's evolving. We're in the age of platforms. Metrics are changing so it used to be uniques or sort of everything uniques are still important you still need scale but like got instagram you got snapchat you got facebook whole platform platforms and so you talk to different people in different ways on different platforms and what the platforms are doing too is they're creating ways for you to live on their platform that are unique to that platform so they don't have to go back to you so yeah to survive and to thrive in this new environment you need massive massive scale or you need a really

strong brand ideally both so like where we're going like i think our brand's really strong it can live on platforms where people remember it they know the content and they come back to our site um and that's where we're so i think media is like at this interesting you either like are going to go really go big right or just try to like carve out your niche and still have like a great business and mission driven and so that's what's and like the middle is falling out that's what i'm seeing with me and talk to a lot of smart people about that. Like,

where are you going to do? You're going to invest in all these platforms, right? It's, it's not cheap. Yeah. A lot of time. Or are you going to carve out something and build your audience authentically

and serve them? And it's hard to do, hard to do both. So we're, we're, we're going to go over here. Yeah. Who are,

who are a couple of brands or sites that really are inspiring you that you're like wow these guys are just doing it well doing it right and they're just accelerating because of that you know i look at everything i think on the uh i look at everyone to be honest like i don't know if i'm like blown away by anyone i see people carving out where they're going some people i look at like. To be honest, I don't know if I'm like blown away by anyone. I see people carving out where they're going. Some people I look at like, okay, they're going for the massive scale. I see others where I'm like, you're kind of going to be left in the middle. And I see others starting to like carve out their niche.

You know, I go back to sports metaphors with a great job. I went in and coached UCLA, you you know famously like was never a big scout so to speak he always said he was aware he did a little scouting but didn't spend a lot of time on scouting and he said if we just need to focus on what we do and if we focus on what we do and we execute we will win and that's how i sort of look at it like i'm aware but like i said everyone internally we just need to focus on our plan and our strategy and execution and if we do we'll be successful we're going to be successful and it's not about winning or losing either it's like how do we become the best we can be of course yeah i love that what's something people don't

know about you that you wish they knew more of you uh you know i think it goes back to this idea of balance where you know i am i'm in the middle of the wellness world. Like I know all the best doctor, the heart of it, you know, know all the best doctors, the nutritionists, the yogis, you know it. And, you know, my buddy Green's driving a large part of this conversation. And, but I also, I really believe in balance. Unless you have, you know, as I mentioned, serious health issues, I believe in balance. I believe in finding a lifestyle. I do not believe in this one-size-fits-all approach to health and wellness. Like, I think it's insane.

I'm 6'7", 41, probably like 225 pounds, which I don't weigh myself anymore. I'm taking a guess. What is good for me? It's insane to think would be good for like a 5'2", 18-year-old female gymnast. Right. You know, and I think this idea that, you know, in the wellness world, it's very dogmatic where it's like you got to be this or you got to be that or you got to do that. I think it's not great for a lot of people who are new to this

and so i think i'd love for more people to know that like it's okay like balance is good like strive for making improvements in your life that makes sense and it's a lifestyle because if it's not a lifestyle like if you're just gonna go all in and then you can't maintain it sure you're gonna fall apart that's true and you know i want people to like i'm not this insane i get questions like are you vegan are you paleo i'm like no like i believe in i believe in those things but like i am a conscious omnivore even though i believe in the power of plants and eat more vegetables and i think that's like the joke like that would be the best sell the worst selling book of all time just eat vegetables

and that's the diet if you stick to that you're going to be okay uh so which people knew more I joke like that would be the best – the worst selling book of all time, just eat vegetables. That's the diet. If you stick to that, you're going to be okay. So I wish people knew more about that. Like I believe in balance. You know, I am not just some guy who juices and know, extremely blessed, works hard, have great people around me, but I'm a normal guy. And I do what I can. I find a lifestyle that works for me. Right.

And so, you know, here it is. Like, the guy is the CEO of, you know, one of the – probably the media company that's driving the health and wellness revolution, but like, this is, I'm normal. I'm not nuts. Right, right. Exactly. I love it. It's okay.

Yeah. I love it. Final few questions. Sure. What are you most grateful for in your life recently? Oh, man. Like my family, my mother, my wife, my team at MindBodyGreen, like my health, all the little things you just never want to take for granted.

For sure. This is a three truths question. I don't know if you heard my podcast ever. Yes. You have? Okay. So, so last day you have a piece of paper and a pen to write three truths. Your book is gone.

MindBodyGreen is gone. Where'd it go? It's deleted. It's erased from time. Everything's gone. Where'd it go? It's deleted. It's erased from time.

Everything's gone. But it's many, many years from now, and you get to write down your three lessons, the three things you know to be true about everything you've learned in life. This is the message you give to the world since they can't read anything you've ever put out there before. What would you write down as those three truths? Gratitude is the key to happiness i would say the key to success is the combination of belief and passion and i would say that true love only comes along when you are 100%, when you are in love with yourself and know who you are. Those are good.

I like those. Those are good. Lewis Howes approved. I approve that. I like that one. Before I ask the final question, make sure to go get Wealth, How I Learned to Build a Life, not a resume. Go pick it up right now. You can get it in bookstores and Amazon and everywhere online.

Also, go to mindbodygreen.com. Subscribe. Become a part of the community. You guys have a lot of great content. I check it out all the time, so make sure to go there. Where should we follow you specifically if we want to connect or say hi? I'm on Twitter and Instagram, at Jason Wacob, W-A-C-H-O-B. There you go.

Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Jason, for being here and for showing up and for having awareness because I think that it's so easy for people to get caught up in wanting to make money and be driven to make money. And the awareness you had with your health, with your back, with noticing that, hey, this isn't really serving my higher purpose right now. And shifting, leaving a successful financial job and going into the unknown. Yeah. It took 10 years. Yeah.

That's the other thing. These transitions can take a while. Right. But now you're serving the world in a major way. Yes. So that awareness, that noticing that you had that presence has impacted millions of people around the world. So I want to acknowledge you for your commitment, your dedication, your passion for this because you're serving so many people in the process. Thank you so much. Of course.

And the final question is what's your definition of greatness? I think greatness is feeling great. Well, let me think about that because I could go a couple of different ways with this now that I'm starting to think about it. I think greatness is, I'm going to go back to gratitude. I think greatness is waking up every morning and feeling grateful for what you have and grateful for the world you live in. And trying to do whatever you can during the day to be the best person you can possibly be, even in the smallest moments. And I think true greatness in that definition is quite hard because we all have, you know, it's easy, I think, to focus on big things like greatness is doing, you know,

X or Y and doing that. But I think it's the moments throughout the day where we all lose ourselves and we all, you know, are upset in the line at Trader Joe's or Whole Foods. But I think it's that idea of, you know, I think life in general success and greatness is made up of the smaller moments

and really focusing on trying to get through them and be the best you can be and it's hard and we all have moments, myself included so I think greatness is, and you'll never really get there, which is the beauty of it Awesome, Jason thanks so much for so much louis appreciate it thank you

thank you again guys so much for being here and this is episode number 303 with jason if you enjoyed this episode make sure to tag us both on instagram and twitter and Facebook and share this with your friends. The link is lewishouse.com slash 303. The full video interview, the photos from today's interview, the resources, all that stuff, where you can get Jason's new book is at lewishouse.com slash 303. And please leave a comment on the blog

or on the YouTube video and let me know what you thought of this interview. I really appreciate you guys. Again, I feel like the luckiest guy in the world and it means so much that you continue to show up, you're present, you listen. So many of you post photos of you running on the treadmill and say, I work out longer now and harder

because I listen to the podcast and I just get in the zone and I get inspired. So for me, that's awesome. If you can get some great knowledge and information and work on your body at the same time with working out and listening to this, then that's a double bonus. So I appreciate you guys. I love you guys. And I hope you continue to spread the message of greatness.

It's all about becoming the best version of ourselves and then making others better around us. That's what this is about. That's what it is to be great. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា Thank you.