The School of Greatness - 308 Tracy McMillan on Why Relationships Are Meant to Trigger Us

Episode Date: March 28, 2016

"There is only one relationship - the one you have with yourself." - Tracy McMillan If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/308

Episode number 308 with Tracy McMillan. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. If you want to go fast, go alone.

If you want to go far, go together. That's an African proverb and one of the quotes that I post in the School of Greatness book. If you guys haven't gotten the book yet, make sure to get a copy of the New York Times bestseller that sold over 50,000 copies around the world. And that is all about the chapter on building a winning team and relationships. Again, we were born to connect, to relate, to come together, to create things. We weren't born to be alone by ourselves. And this is a topic about building relationships and building team with a partner today. And our guest is Tracy McMillan.

She is a relationship expert, author, television writer, and matchmaker on, and was a matchmaker on NBC's Ready for Love. She is known for the 2011 viral blog post, Why You're Not Married, which for two years was the most viewed article on Huffington Post and is the fourth most read post of all time. She also won the 2010 Writers Guild of America Awards for the dramatic series For Mad Men. And she's a TEDx speaker as well. And in this episode, we dive in, we cover a lot of messy things, actually. But some of the good stuff is how to build awareness in all of your relationships, not just your intimate ones,

but in all of them. What American women and men both tend to lack in their relationships. Why getting triggered by your partner isn't that bad of a thing after all, and the difference between raising kids with someone and being married to them. We talk about all of that and so much more in this episode, number 308, with the one, the only, Tracy McMillan. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast podcast i'm very excited about our guest tracy mcmillan thanks so much for being here i appreciate it you're a relationship expert coach

you're an author with a new book coming out you're a writer for tv and media personality what do you enjoy doing the most of all the hats you wear? That's cool. You know what I love? I love talking one-on-one with someone about their relationships and I would do that for free and I do do it for free. Oh, absolutely. You don't charge for it? No, I don't. In fact, some people will be like, I want to inquire about your relationship coaching. I'm like, oh, I do that for free. I make money as a writer and a television writer. I share about experiences in relationships for free. So people just call you and get coaching from you all the time?

Yeah. Is your phone constantly blowing up? Well, this is how I started. So the way I started was I didn't set out to become a relationship expert. I always joke that I'm the jailhouse lawyer of relationship experts. I've done so much work on my own case that now I can help you with yours. So it's well known that I've been married and divorced three times. So I've had a lot of experiences in relationships, things that I did wrong, and then having to sort of put Humpty Dumpty back together again. So I had a lot to

learn. I had a really crazy childhood and that made me be a really crazy adult I had a lot to learn. Um, you know, I had a really crazy childhood and that made me be a really crazy adult who had a lot to learn about loving, um, you know, getting grounded anyway, without going too deeply into that. As I started to work through my own stuff, I would share it with people that I was working with. Um, I worked for many years, 16 years in television news. Now, a newsroom is a place with like 100 people in it. And you're working, but you're also there's lots of time to hang out and talk. And I would always be in some conversation with one of the girls in the newsroom about what was going on in her relationship or what was going on in my relationship. what was going on in my relationship. And over the years, I became this person who really kind of had a lot of good insights. And it's not even advice. Like people will say, oh, I want your

advice. I'm like, I don't really give advice. What I give is like, you tell me a little bit about your situation. And then I'll tell you either an experience I've had with that, or maybe some concepts, things I've learned. And I've done tons of reading and I've been in therapy since I was like five. So I have a lot to draw on and I sort of have a gift for applying things to whatever's going on in your life. And pretty soon people would call me and say, Hey, can I have my friend talk to you? Cause like she really needs your help. And I'd be like, sure. So then her friend would call me, like when you're commuting or whatever. And the next thing I knew, I had a lot of people that I was helping.

And I helped people get married. And it just kind of became a thing that I did. And then I wrote Why You're Not Married. So meanwhile, I'm becoming a television writer. I wrote Why You're Not Married, this piece that went in the Huffington Post and it blew up. It became the all-time most viewed for maybe almost three years. It was the number one of all time. And really that was just all of my life experience and wisdom sort of compressed into 1200 very sassy words right right yeah apparently now never in my wildest dreams did i imagine that that was going to happen well

you wrote the book after that yes and then i wrote the book after that really it was just me i'm a writer so that's what i do it's just me writing a piece, and I'm kind of making myself laugh and going, ha, ha, ha, yes, that's it, yes. And then it turns out, yes, apparently. So after the second marriage, how did you say to yourself, let's try this a third time and get this to work? Did you not learn all the lessons in the first two and previous relationships, which were probably a number before that?

And I don't think most people do. It depends on who you are. So I got married once in the 80s, once in the 90s, and once in the 00s. So it's really, it sounds like I've been married a lot, and I have, but it's really over a 30-year period. It's like different lifetimes. Exactly. So I got married once when I was 19. Then I got married 13 years later.

Lifetimes. Exactly. So I got married once when I was 19. Then I got married 13 years later. So I had every reason to believe that marriage was going to be okay. Like there was a lot of years in between that first marriage and the second one. Now in my second marriage, I was pregnant. So that helps.

That helps you go, I really should get married right now. And I'm a kind of a traditional person. And my kid's dad is a traditional person. So it made all the sense in the world that we were going to get married. And then my third marriage was 10 years after that. I got married, let's see, one was in 1996. And then I got married in 2004. So like eight years after that. And why did each one of them not work for you

or the other person? Well, it's not even that they didn't work for me. It's just that, okay, well, that's a big question. So first of all, I was 17 when I met my first husband, I was not mature on the outside. I was sort of like a M and M on the outside. I appeared to be very grown up for my age. I was wise beyond my years. I was a foster child. I lived in like 24 foster homes. I'd seen so much life by the time I was 17. My father was in prison for many, many years. I'd seen a lot. And so I had a wisdom sort of beyond my years. And yet on the inside, developmentally, I really was very, very young. And so a lot of it, looking back, is that I really needed to finish growing up.

And so there was, and actually in that marriage, I did finish growing up. I came in, I met him when I was 17. We broke up when I was 22. And by the time it ended, I was like, it was almost like, oh, I see. We're not, we don't have kids. We've been together five years. We should really just let this go. Call it a success because it is. I'm sort of a grown up now and I'll take it from here. And it wasn't that I set out to do that.

It's that that's what it turned out to be. And I think this happens to a lot of people. It's like you, I simply got married where a lot of girls would have just lived, lived with the guy. Um, but because I had a lot of, I was very security oriented because I'd been a foster child. Marriage was something that was very important to me because I wanted to be secure. So when I left that relationship, I consider that relationship to be a success. Right, right. You know?

And why was your dad in jail? He's a drug dealer. His first conviction was like for a check forgery. He was like a hustler, sort of grifter. And then he got out of prison in 1972. He became a drug dealer. He went back in 73. He was sort of that guy who gets out for vacations. He would come out. He took me back. And then he would go back in. Yeah. How many times did he go back in? He, oh gosh, these are complicated questions. Let's see. He went went in in 68 got out in 72 went back in 73

got out in 78 went back in 78 got out in 82 and by that time i was i was 18 and i was like okay i'm done wow when i was 14 i was like i don't want to go to prison anymore yeah it's a bummer and i don't want to go and um so when he got out of prison, I remember he called me and he said, can I come to your high school graduation? And I was like, I really rather you didn't. Wow. So did he show up or not? I actually, I kind of think he might have, but I don't know. You know, we've never even had the conversation.

But it wouldn't be, he, my dad really cared about me. He sent cards for every holiday, every Easter, every birthday. He called me every two weeks without fail. He was there from over there, you know? So he loved me. I knew that. And that was actually a great gift. Like looking back, I can see, wow, my dad could have just given up on me and just said, oh, forget it. It's too late. He still was there even when he wasn't there. Even now. Like, he calls me every two weeks, even now. That's right. Is he in jail still? No, he got out.

So he went, he was out for 10 years, and then he went back. And that's where we developed our relationship between the ages of 18 and 28. And he came to visit me a couple times in college, but mostly it was over the phone. You know, he was there. I remember he came to visit me when I was in my first job. Sure. And, you know, then he went back and he, that time he got a 23 year sentence and he served 19 years and he just got out like a year and a half ago.

Oh, that's tough. And he's 80 now. Well, my brother went to jail for four and a half years. Sentenced to six to 25 for drugs as well. Sick state or federal? Because state sucks and federal is okay. I don't even remember. I was eight to 12, but we would go every weekend and visit him.

Where was it? In Ohio. I'm not sure. Yeah, that's a big deal. It was pretty, I mean, it was like a huge prison. I know. It's intense. It's like full on getting through the metal detectors.

That's my life growing up. So I can relate to you there. So why didn't the second one work out? Oh, that's a good question too. And what's the biggest lesson you learned in that marriage? Well, you know what? Here's the thing. I'll tell you the biggest lesson I learned in my second marriage.

And as a traditionalist, I'm shocked that you even got divorced. Well, here's the thing I understand. You can't, well, let me tell you what I learned. I learned that you can honor a marriage vow without actually being married, right? Like, I should not have married him just because I was pregnant. But being that we're going to co-parent, I'm going to be the best co-parent in the world. I'm going to love, honor, and cherish my child's father. But that doesn't mean I have to be married to him.

So there's a way to commit to that other person and honor what he is. But the marriage is something else. That's like a spiritual relationship. So where my kid's father is one of the most important people in my life. He's like my, he's somewhere between a brother and a dear cousin. You know what I mean? It's like, I talk to him pretty much every day. Even now we have a college freshman, we check in every day. Like he's the first person I would call over the years if anything happened in my life, good, bad. You know, if I got a new job, I call him. Why? Because it's going to affect him. But also because we're in a family.

So I also consider that marriage to be a success. It just wasn't supposed to be he and I in a house, you know, it's like the commitment is there. But I mean, really, what are we talking about? We're talking about a sexual relationship. That's something else. And I feel like there is a world that we're getting to where people could understand you can be in a family, but I still had so much more to learn on my life journey. I still didn't have the maturity to be able to commit to someone for a lifetime, anytime while I still had eggs. Some people could be, they would, let's say you were raised in a different way than me and you had hit all your developmental milestones.

You could do that. Right. I was not in a position to do that. And many other people are not in positions to do that. So the question then becomes, how do I be the best mother, the best ex-wife, you know, and to really honor that relationship without stopping my life to fake it for the next 50 years? Because life is too long and too short paradoxically to do that

you have to live in your authentic self and i knew that authentically that wasn't like that wasn't our true relationship husband and wife okay parent was our true relationship and sometimes you enter into a relationship like a contract a situation, not knowing what it really is. Right. Interesting. You find out after, you know. Sure. I'm not here to say people are, there's only one way to do it.

Mm-mm. I think they're, it's about finding out who you are. It's about being authentic and being loving in that. Yeah. You know? Okay. Yeah. So the third marriage, what was the biggest lesson you learned

and why did it not work out? Well, the third marriage, I mean, hindsight is so awesome. Hindsight is so awesome. Well, my third marriage was a person who I was like, this is it. Now this is what I've been looking for. This is the one. This is the marriage. This is the life partner. this is it. Now, this is what I've been looking for. This is the one. This is it. This is the life partner.

This is it. Now, when you're me and you have this crazy childhood and you find it, buckle up. Right? Sure, sure. Buckle up. Like I always say, if your dad came home every night at 6 o'clock and had dinner and was faithful and wonderful and attuned and loved your mom and never cheated, go ahead. Go to Vegas.

Elope on your first date. It'll be fine. Because your template, your inner template for what constitutes it is very different from someone whose dad was a lying, cheating criminal. Right. So it for me me, is... Yeah. Whoa.

It, for my friend, my best friend growing up, whose dad is a super good person, totally different story. So you've got to know who you are. That's the key to relationships, is to know who you are. And who I am is a person with a lot of unresolved childhood stuff.

So when I met him him all that means like the higher the intensity of the himness or the itness the more unconscious material is going to come to the surface it all came up all yours it all came up yeah now i don't again this is why i also consider that marriage to be a success did it come up because you didn't want to sabotage it because he was that great? No, it came up because he was designed. It is the person who's best going to unlock all the click, click, click, click, click, click. It's like all the tumblers fall into place. The safe opens and boom, here comes your stuff.

The avalanche. Yeah. Interesting. So the beauty of it is. I feel bad for that guy. No, he was a match. He had just as much of his own stuff going on.

It's always a match. Gotcha. He was just a match. There's no victims. Sure, sure. You know, there's no victims. But there must have been explosive. Yeah, it was intense.

A lot of tension and drama and emotions, right? It was intense. Yeah, it was intense. Interesting. But it was intense in exactly the way I needed it to be intense.

And I'm presuming it was intense for him in exactly the same way. We're friendly. He calls me twice a year to check in. He comments on my Facebook posts. You know? Sure, sure. Like, it's, you know why? Because I don't blame him.

There's no blame. I get it. He was exactly what I needed to get exactly where I was going, which was to really start to resolve some of the deeper things that I'd never tapped into. Because, like, my first two husbands were people who on paper were perfect. Perfect. They were, like, from good families and they were nice people. Well, I kind of needed somebody who was a little bit more of a mess because that was what was going to take me where I needed to go. And I just hope that whoever's listening, like, this is just something that you catch.

This awareness is just something you catch. It's not something that you can really explain because it's not precisely logical. It's more creative than that. Like, life is creative. And the way you interact with it is going to determine what you get out of it. So I could have this third marriage. Another person might have had that third marriage and they'd be like, oh, he cheated on me after nine months and I'm totally a victim. And this is terrible what happened to me.

And that girl learns nothing. Or you could go, okay, now time out. Let's see how this fits into my deepest beliefs about me. What do I get to examine from what just came up for me? How do I look at my part in this and what I did to get me here? What I created. Yes. Exactly. Why did I attract this? I created this. Okay. Taking a deep breath. And now we're going to dive in to what's going on with me. And when I did it that way I've never had to be in that relationship again. Interesting.

And there was actually nothing wrong with that relationship. It was sort of perfect. Right, okay. So then you bless it and then it becomes beautiful. And it becomes like life is beautiful, even the gnarly stuff. So where are you headed now? Well, let's see.

That you're willing to share. What are you looking to create? Well, I'm in a relationship now. Yeah. As I said, when I got into the relationship I'm in now, I really was very clear on who I am. I'm at that place in life. I'm in middle age. Who are you? Well, I'm at that place in life. I'm in middle age. I'm, um, well, I know I'm here in

relationships. I'm here to love more and better. Like I'm here to practice loving. So it's not about like the other person and like, does it fit? Does it check off on my list? Like, it's not about that. It's about how do I practice being a loving person? And then I have a big spiritual life. So the way I do things is I don't consult my ego for what it thinks I should be doing today. I don't go, well, what does me think? You know, I say, hey, universe, you know, creative intelligence, show me what you want me to do today and I'll do it. Show me how you want me to love. And so that process that I used to do at the end of a relationship, I now do day by day.

I'm looking for how do I love more and better, you know? And then I say to the God, I call it God sometimes, if you don't want me here, take it away. Right. And I'll let it go. Right. You know? If you want me here, give me the power to like be loving here. Okay.

All right. And what is this? How does someone marry themselves and what does that mean? Well, marrying yourself is basically where you commit to yourself. So what is committing to yourself? Let's say, let's take my relationship history, for example. It's a great, most people would have a hard time marrying that. They'd be like, whoa, or they would judge themselves. They would be like, I can't love you, Tracy. You've made too many mistakes. Like some version of the short,

the short way to say it is I suck. Right. What's wrong with me? Instead of going, it's okay, sweetheart. Everyone makes mistakes. It is all right. That's marrying yourself where you love yourself. You stand by you. You commit to you no matter what you've done, no matter what has happened. And then as you have that relationship with yourself, now I'm in a place because I have that relationship with myself.

Now I'm in a place where I could have that relationship with myself, now I'm in a place where I could have that relationship with someone else. Right. Because essentially, whatever you've got going on inside, that's what you're going to do out there in the world. There is only one relationship, the one you're having with yourself. Right. And then you just replicate that in traffic. Sure, everywhere. At work.

Our triggers show up or whatever. Yeah. So how do we improve that relationship with ourselves? What are some things we can do every single day as a reminder to make it better every day? Well, I think the first thing is to learn to observe. Observe yourself. And then it has to be that you just observe it without the judgment. So I have a few different, I use a lot of visualizing to help myself um observe without

judging observe feelings observe all these things so without that observation that that sort of distance it's just too much reacting you know people just react so first you have to learn to observe yourself then you have to learn to be okay with what you see. Accepting what you see? Yeah. Just being okay with it. Like, that's okay. Okay. That's okay. And then maybe there's parts where you're like, oof, I don't know if I can be okay with that. That's okay too. It's okay to not be okay with that, but I'm willing to be okay. So then the next part is being willing. Just like, am I willing? I don't have to know how I'm going to solve a problem in me. I just have to be willing to have a new experience. So to me, as I'm going through my day, little by little, I'm practicing observing. I'm practicing

accepting. I'm practicing willingness. Little by little. Everywhere where I feel like I'm stuck or. Sure. Sure. Yeah. What about forgiveness? Oh, huge. And, and making and marrying ourselves. Yeah.

You know, I could make the assumption that someone who's been divorced three times. Right. Hard for them to forgive themselves. Potentially. I'm not saying that. Divorced once. Right. The shame, the guilt, or whatever.

Like, really, think about it. There's not one life experience that a person who was being hard on themselves couldn't, I didn't get that job. Like, you idiot. You know what I mean? What's the self-talk? The self-talk has to be kind and loving, you know? And that's where the observation comes in because

people are saying so much stuff to themselves without even knowing they're saying it yeah so how does someone forgive themselves every day then well i feel like forgiveness the key to forgiveness is i always talk about like you have to change your story so for example I have these parents who, well, it wasn't so great, you know. My mom was a prostitute and an alcoholic and she abandoned me. And my dad was a criminal, you know. You were in foster care. Yeah, I was in foster care. It wasn't that awesome.

So I could be mad at them. So one story goes, I got born and, like, they messed me up and, like, F them. That's the non-forgiveness story. The forgiveness story is, I got born. I took a look around. I said, I can do better than this. And then the universe got me out of there and put me over here. Now over here, it wasn't great, but over here, the back there was worse. You know what I mean? So forgiveness is where I go, oh, I can forgive these people.

They were just human beings making mistakes, just like I've made mistakes. Their mistakes were big, but really, it was kind of okay. I was okay. Yeah, okay.

Why? Because I am okay. Here I am, you know? I know. I love it. What should someone be asking themselves when evaluating their relationships, whether it be an intimate relationship, a friendship, a family relationship, if it's serving them to the highest power or if it's supporting them to be their best self as well? Right. Obviously, you said the only relationship is the one we have with ourselves.

Right. It really doesn't matter what other people do or say. Kind of. If we have our relationship solid and we marry ourselves every day is what I'm hearing you say. Yeah. But I also think that we're here to connect and be in relationship with other human beings. Yeah.

So how do we know that when we are connecting, how do we evaluate that? What questions should we be asking ourselves to know that it's the best community we're in? Well, again, this is where I engage with faith. And I engage with a higher power. Because I'm down here on the human plane. It is not Google satellite view. It's not Google Earth. You're not way up here in your life going

having a crystal ball knowing everything so for me you know on in one way you want to note how you feel but then in another way it's like there's not one relationship on this planet that doesn't that feels good all the time because when you're coming up against your own material it doesn't, that feels good all the time. Because when you're coming up against your own material, it doesn't feel good. So you have to be willing to not feel good. A lot of the time. Yeah. Sometimes, a lot of the time, you know, it's more like sometimes you don't feel good a lot of the time. Sometimes you feel good most of the time. It's like, you just have to roll with it. So how do I, I was on the phone with a girl yesterday who...

And she's like, well, how do I know if this relationship is right for me? I'm like, I wouldn't think so much in those terms. I would say, what am I here to learn today? What is this relationship teaching me today? What is it asking me to look at in myself? Why don't I just look at that? Right now. Right this second.

Yes. Focus on that. Not worrying about like five years from now, is it going to work out or what happens if this happens in the future? And not even focusing on the relationship, focusing on myself and what I'm here to look at. Okay. And then see what happens as I start to look at myself and focus on what I'm learning and practicing what I need to practice. Cause there's always a lesson. There's always a practice, spiritual practice, a growth that's trying to happen. So as I focus on that growth, what I found is that the relationship tends to find an equilibrium, you know, and then if it's supposed to go away, it will just go away and it will easily go away with ease and grace. If it's supposed to stay, it will stay and And I will somehow make it through that

tough day or that tough week or whatever it is. So I sort of take the focus off. Is this the right person for me? Yeah. That's not the right question. Interesting. I don't think it's the right question. I think that leads us to swap out people. Right. And there I still am. And putting it on other

people, not on ourselves. Saying, I haven't found the right fit yet or whatever. Yeah, totally. Keep swapping around. Yeah. Keep going from guy to guy or girl to girl. And like, I'm that person who, I always joke that I'm that person who I could be lying. If I did that and just did what came naturally to me, I would be lying on my deathbed holding the hand of my new boyfriend.

Because I'm just going to. That you met like six months prior. Yeah. Because I'm just going to... That you met like six months prior. Yeah. Because I'm just going to keep swapping out for the next person. Not everybody's like that, but I know that I am. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's about knowing yourself. Interesting.

You know? I like that. I like that. What's the importance of humor during all the challenging, messy times, frustrating, triggering times that come up for you. To me, it's everything. Like, I think everything's funny. Okay.

It's all funny. There's a humorous aspect to everything because... Why do you think people put so much weight on these situations that come up for them in relationships or he or she did, said this? Yeah. Why do you think there's so much weight? Usually, to me, it's like some unresolved childhood thing. Mm-hmm.

Like, basically, there's a saying,? Yeah, usually to me it's like some unresolved childhood thing. Like basically there's a saying, if I'm hysterical, it's historical. So if I'm having a big, giant reaction to something, it's old. There's a reason. It's old. It's from history. It's from mommy, daddy, toddler. I don't know when, but it's old. Because you're reacting based on a fear or a trigger or something that caused that in the past.

It's so much bigger, yes. Than the moment. Exactly. If the reaction is super big to like a very small thing, chances are it's related to something in the past, like something old. So how does someone be aware of that? Let's say we're in a relationship and you freak out for some reason about something. How can I then work with my partner in that moment to not react and be like, you crazy woman?

Exactly. Which would be a trigger for me in my past to do the same thing. How can someone be trained to... That's hard. That is really hard work. Be calm and loving and humorous, but not offensive. Exactly. That's hard. That is really hard work. Be calm and loving and humorous, but not offensive. Exactly. That's the key.

Well, I think the first thing is to know is that if we were really into each other when we first met, chances are the stuff that triggers me is going to interlock with the stuff that triggers you. So we just got to know. We're going to spend a whole probably year or maybe more just crashing into each other. Yeah. Just crashing into each other. Like I'm going to have one of my big reactions.

That's going to trigger some really old stuff for you. And then that's going to trigger really old stuff for me. And then do, do, do, do, do. Then it's time to roll up your sleeves and get to work in the relationship.

So that's like maybe, you know, somewhere between, let's say you have your first fight about six months in somewhere in there the honeymoon wears off somewhere between a year and 18 months it's like you know and this is all chemical there's like all these neurotransmitters that are happening and for the first six to 18 months that gradually drop off and then things start to get real and so then these triggers will happen and if you know that's coming, then it's like, I mean, I recommend therapy for everybody, you know, and if it's too intense to

do therapy together, then you do it on your own. And they say, you know, you bring your problems to your therapy and your, um, whatever you're doing to like grow as a human and you bring the solutions to the relationship. So then as you work through these and you stay committed one day at a time, you're staying committed, staying committed. And then as these things little by little, you'll start to see, they'll start to like, you'll get a little bit of space in there where I have a reaction. And this time you're able to be not triggered. Yeah.

More compassionate. Yeah. Well, and just be detached. Like, oh, that's Tracy and her dad thing again. Right. And I don't have to take a personal list. Yeah. But that, I don't think anybody should be surprised when that takes a couple years.

Right. Especially if you haven't been trained or you don't have the tools on how to handle those emotions because it can be very messy. And our egos can get in the way and mess things up even more. And now, exactly. And at times, people will choose a partner who doesn't trigger them that much. That's another solution. But a lot of times, those relationships aren't as rich because being...

Triggered. ...is really an opportunity to resolve a bunch of stuff. It's like a really rich place. What happens if after two years, you're not being triggered anymore by your partner does that mean you should just go on the next one or it's not rich anymore different people have different again this is where you got to know who you are like some people i want a certain amount of intensity i know that yeah i want like a dynamic whoa operating yes i that's what I need. Now, I've had them quite a relationship, and that doesn't fit me as well.

It's not as spicy. It's just that I'm interested in, it's like some people are interested in the black diamond ski run, and other people, and there's no right or wrong. One for green. It's just about what's right for you, and are you a match with your partner? no right or wrong. It's just about what's right for you. And are you a match with your partner? You know, I think sometimes people pick before they become aware, they pick their shadow, you know, they pick their unowned, you know, the part of themselves that they have disowned. So there'll be one really quiet person and one really intense person. Um, but I do think is as you know yourself better and you sort of take back all the parts of yourself that are in your peripheral vision, because I think when you're young, you have a tendency to put a lot of stuff and it's back here and it'll show up as the outside world.

Does that make sense? Sure. Yeah. The more you get to know yourself and you do the self-work of marrying yourself, knowing yourself, owning your negative traits, they tend to show up less. And you're more okay. You just got to know who you are and have the relationship that fits kind of how you like to live. Some people like to live in a big city. Some people like the country. It's just right. like to live. Some people like to live in a big city. Some people like the country.

It's just right. Uh, in general, in America, what do you think women need to have more of? It's a great question. I think, I mean, I would say in general, this is not, yeah, I do think it comes down to the self love piece and. We need to have more self-love. And like, what is self-love? It's not, I'll tell you what it's not. It's not, I'm so fabulous. It's not. It's not ego driven. Yeah. It's not external.

Self-love is where you are taking such good care of yourself. And I mean mean emotional care. Because there's a lot of responsibility that goes along with that. I think it's easy for women to think, I'm going to marry a guy who's going to love me. I'm going to marry a guy who's going to give me a house. I'm going to marry a guy who, without thinking, I'm going to love me. Love yourself like you want a man to love you.

Do for yourself what you want a man to do for you. Like consider yourself the person, like it's an honor to do that for me. And I'm not looking for a man to do that. That is the number one thing that's going to make your relationships go on a whole other plane. Because I think it's very easy. We're taught it's not just Cinderella and Prince Charming. It's really about like you want somebody to take care of you. And I put that in quotes. Take care of you instead of taking care of yourself. Yeah. Why do you think so many women don't take care of you. And I put that in quotes. Take care of you. Instead of taking care of yourself.

Yeah. Why do you think so many women don't take care of themselves? Because I see this a lot. You know, I see a lot of women. I'm like, just go get a massage once in a while. Just go take some time to like relax or go read a book by the beach or whatever. I feel like a lot of women aren't doing that. Why do you think that is?

Well, I think there's two reasons. One is that self-worth. We don't feel like we lot of women aren't doing that. Why do you think that is? Well, I think there's two reasons. One is that self-worth. We don't feel like we're worth it. And number two, maybe we believe that it's more valuable coming from someone else. Like if you don't value yourself, you think, well, so what if I like me? What matters is if he likes me or if they like me. But you have to make you so valuable to you that when you take care of you, it feels good. And you're like, this feels so good.

Like, you know, I wanted a house. That was my big dream because I was a foster child. Like, you know, I'm obsessed with real estate. I love real estate. Like other people love the Yankees. You know, I'm like, I always know all the houses and I go to open houses and I read the house ads and I'm like into houses. But I really believed that a man was the only way I was going to get a house. I did not believe I was going to do that for myself. And of course, I mean, it's a long story. I could write a whole book about that. But essentially, I mean, I'll tell you a little story. So when I married my third husband, we started looking for a house. And we looked at this house. It was the

world's cutest house. We put an offer on it and we didn't get it. Well, all hell broke loose and we broke up like nine months later. Wow. And five years passed. And because I get the listings every day, I saw that house came back on the market. Somebody else got the house. I saw the house came back. I'm like, oh, there's that house.

Oh my God. And my friend's like, you should go look at it just for fun. So I went and looked at it. And the long and the short of it, now I live in that house. Wow. It almost makes me want to cry it's amazing and I bought that house by myself because in the in between after that husband and I broke up that was like the beginning of my okay I'm gonna take care of me and I wrote this script that I didn't know anything was going to happen with it. And it

got me an agent. I started writing television. I sold a book. Like all these things started to happen in my life. After I came to that place, after that third husband cheated and then laughed, I was like, Tracy, I love you. It doesn't matter if he left. It doesn't matter if he's dating a 20-year-old. It doesn't matter. You are worthy. So as I practiced that one day at a time, practice, practice, practice, I took all these actions in line with somebody who feels like she's worthy. I finished the thing. I sat down and wrote every day. I did these things. And things started to happen. And i remember i was on united states of tara i was a television writer i'd been writing tv for probably i guess like two and a half years

and this house comes back on the market and i bought that house by myself with my own money and there's not a day that goes by that i don't sit in my home and go, I love my house. Like I take out the garbage and I'll be like, I'll see that my house is all lit up. And I'm like, like, sometimes I just want to go back in the house, get some more garbage and take it out. So I can go, Oh, my house, because that's what it feels like when you take care of yourself, when you are loving yourself, it feels super good. And when you start to make relationships

from that place, they are entirely different relationships. So if I could say anything to American women, it's really about knowing the most important relationship you're having is with yourself and that anything you want a man or a job or an outfit to do for you, you really can do. Yeah. I love that. That's a great answer.

And I asked the question to our mutual friend, Matt Hussey, and, or someone asked the question, we were doing a Periscope live. It was like, what's the best way to like, how do you find the man of your dreams type of question? Right. Like how do you find the man of your dreams type of question, right? Like, how do you find the one or whatever? And he said something that I'd never heard before. He said, create a list of all the things you want from this man and then go be those things. Yeah. I was like, oh, that just hit the heart, right?

Because I hear these women are like, I have all these things on this list. I want them to be funny and sexy and make a lot of money and this and this and this and have a career. But they're broke and they're miserable and they're like this and this. And I'm like, how do you expect to have that when you're not being that? Yeah, totally. And I'm like, that was a great message. Yeah, you have to be it. You have to be everything you want.

You've got to be it first and then you're going to create it. So what do you think is something that all men should have more of? Self-love. So I heard self-worth or self-love. I think it's the same thing. Same thing. Men need the same thing. Because, you know, it's not like, I had a friend once who felt like, women are gold diggers and they all just want.

Well, if you're a man with self-worth, that gold digger woman is not attractive to you. No, you're not even looking at her. You're not even looking at her. You're not even looking at her. You're noticing there's like... But the truth was is that he was into big boobs. Right. And like the Goldberger girls are not dumb. They're like, I want to go buy some big boobs.

Because you know what I mean? The triathlons. Yeah. Because the Goldberger girl is a match for the big boob loving man. the gold digger girl is a match for the big boob loving man it's like if the if a man treats a woman like an object he's gonna find a woman who's gonna treat him like an object and treats herself like an object and treats herself like an object yeah and treats him like an object because men can be objectified to get what i want to get what i want exactly and like when a woman is just like this is what you see a lot on the bachelor like you see a lot of like objectification the girls objectify themselves and then they objectify the man and they're like i'm gonna

get that thing there's no friendship there's no loving it's it's about it's acquisition yeah it's about acquisition so men have to really come from a place of self-love as well, or they are going to open. It's like when people are like, men love bitches. I'm like, no. That's like saying women love bad boys. Yes. Women with low self-esteem love bad boys. Men with low self-esteem love bitches.

But if you love yourself. You're not going to put up with that. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. You're just like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm not a match for that. And frankly, people know what they're looking for we're mammals that's what i'm always saying we're mammals so people know on a very unconscious animal level what you're about in that quick yes they just sit across from you and they're like okay this person i can

do my game on that that person I cannot. You know what I mean? Subconsciously. Yeah. We are supercomputers. Interesting. What's your definition of love? Yeah, well, I have so many.

Love to me, like the biggest definition is it's like that pervasive force that is everywhere. And that when you tune into it, you're in it. And it, it's not, it can be extrapolated in any direction. It could be in your work. It could be, you know, walking down the street. It could be in a love relationship, like a sexual relationship. It could be between parent and child. So there's just like this thing that is there and it's, it's always there. It's everywhere. And you can tune into it or not. So when you tune into that, you're in love.

Right. So, and then from there comes what we think of as like romantic love or romantic love is to me, it's service it's like it's like i'm here to help you become more you for me to become more me and to walk a path with you right and just like in my relationship we talk a lot about sitting on the end of the bed for the other person you know like i just sometimes you just need a friend. It's just somebody to sit on the end of the bed. It's like a witness. Yeah.

What do you think is some things that men and women can do every single day to increase their self-worth, self-love, care? What's like a ritual they could do,

a practice that's like every day if you do these two, three, four things, it's just automatically going to happen. You're going to increase it. Well, something simple that doesn't take a lot of money or, four things, it's just automatically going to happen. You're going to increase it. Well, that's a good question.

Something simple that doesn't take a lot of money or, you know, just something that people could do every single morning, every single night and day to increase. Well, I think you can do affirmations. I do a lot of affirmations. I think, again, you go back to the observation part where that's basically meditation, where you sit still and you observe. It could be in traffic.

It could be moving through your day. You observe what's going on in your mind. And once you start to see what's going on in your mind, then when you're having negative thoughts, you counter those negative thoughts. You don't just let them sit there. And you don't, like, chase them around. And I look at it like I have visuals visuals like i said i one of them is like the old school video game you know like asteroids and then the thing comes on the screen you got to shoot it off the second you see it you don't like let it sit there and watch it going back and forth because it's going to start letting off all sorts of other little rockets, you know, and pretty soon you're inundated with like rockets

and it's like, so, um, I think that when you see those kinds of thoughts that you, you start to identify what kinds of thoughts you're having all the time and you start to see the themes, you know, people have themes. And once you start seeing that stuff, you counter it. Like, for example, whenever I say I don't have something, well, not yet. Now I changed it. Until now. You know, like, let's say it's like, or I'm willing. So a lot of it is just changing my thinking. That's free.

And that's something you can start to do. In our language. In our language, yes. And I'm really disciplined in the stuff I say. I'm very disciplined. I do not speak on things I don't want. Like if it's like, well, I'm never going to get that. Or a great job.

It's like, well, I'm willing to get that great job. Because so much of it is about my willingness, what's happening in here. Final few questions for you. This has been great. Before I ask those, where should people learn more about you and connect with you? And you've got a new book out. What's it called? I have a new book out on Tuesday, March 8th.

It's called Multiple Listings. It's a novel. It's my first novel. It's sort of based on, it's like inspired by my life, but it's not an autobiography. It's not a memoir at all. It's essentially about a guy who gets out of jail after 17 years and shows up on his grown daughter's doorstep. And she's got a teenage son. And then from there, it's really a story about forgiveness.

It's a story about love. It's about healing and families. Cool. You've got another book called Why You're Not Married Yet. Why You're Not Married Yet. That's sort of comedic self-help. It's basically if you like what I'm saying now, you will love that book because it's just this conversation in a book. Real talk.

Yeah, real talk. And it's funny. And I talk a lot about the mistakes I've made. And it's helpful for people. Cool. And then I wrote a memoir called I Love You and I'm Leaving You Anyway. And I've made and it's helpful for people. Cool. And then I wrote a memoir called I Love You and I'm Leaving You Anyway. And that's really the story of my life. I love it.

And where should we follow you? Where do you hang out the most on social media? I'm probably the most on Twitter. Okay. I live tweet The Bachelor at Tracy McMillan. Yep. But I have a great Facebook page that I post. You know, I do different things in each space.

Sure, sure. On Facebook, you can find me there. I post things that I find interesting and I share my little wisdom. Awesome, awesome. So we'll have it all linked up here. Make sure to follow Tracy over there. Final few questions. What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

You know what? I'm grateful for everything in my life. I feel, I was just saying this last night, I, nothing is missing from my life. This is the beauty of being 51. Like life is, people are like, getting old sucks. I'm like, that's not true. That is not true. There is not one thing missing from my life.

Not one thing. That's great. I have work that I love. I have a grown kid who's thriving i mean even if if i didn't have a grown kid do you know what i mean even if i didn't have work that i love there is a sense of like peace in here that i'm good and why am i good because i know why i'm here like i'm here to be of service i'm here here to, like, share experience and, like, just light up my little corner of the universe. And it's just, I don't know, I feel useful.

There's not one thing missing. And I have my little house. You know? That's awesome. I love it. Perfect. Yeah. It's many, many years from now.

And everything you've written on TV and said, and all your books, they've all been erased. Okay. And you have everyone you love. Hopefully it's not your 10th husband by your side, but everyone you love is all there. You're a piece. And they say, we don't have anything else to remember you by because it's been erased. Okay.

But we have a piece of paper. You have to write down three truths, three things that you know to be true about life and the world that we will take and use as lessons for our lives, for the world to see. What would you write down as those three truths? Oh my gosh. You know, I'm a writer, so I would want to think about that. Think about that in traffic. In the moment. I would say the first thing I would say that just the first thing that came to my mind is that you keep what you give away so what that means is whatever you give to the world whatever you believe whatever you're putting out there that's what you're going to experience that's what you're going to experience so you really do determine your own experience in that way.

People don't think that. They think that something stuff's happening to them. So I would say you keep what you give away. I would say love is all there is. Love is all there is. There really isn't anything else. All the other stuff is just sort of temporary. You could focus on it if you want to, but you don't have to. There's something bigger

than every bad thing. Something bigger than that. And you see people in the world who know that, who practice that. Tragedies happen to them and then they rise above it. They make it mean something. And I guess that would be the last thing I would say is like, make meaning out of life. That's what it's about. Try to find meaning. Give meaning. Think about meaning. What do I want this to mean? What do I want to be about? Sure.

Those are great truths. Thanks for sharing that. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Tracy, for showing up in an open, loving, vulnerable, creative, fun way in this interview, but also for consistently doing the work and being there for free to so many people that call you and reach out to your feedback and support because you've gone through a lot in life from childhood stuff to multiple marriages. You've got a lot to share.

And I think it's incredible that you continue to step up to support others in giving your knowledge away. Thank you. I want to acknowledge others in giving your knowledge away. Thank you. I just want to acknowledge you for the work you do. Thank you. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness? Oh, I want to say, like, the places where, and this is something I say, and it's like the places where you have your biggest challenges are the places where you have the most to

give. And I feel like greatness is stepping into that. It's like allowing that. And what that means is that you have to accept where your biggest challenges are. And it takes greatness to lean into your challenges. You could spend a lifetime on the run from whatever is hardest for you, whatever is most difficult. You could just bury yourself

in drugs or alcohol or work or whatever, but it takes greatness to lean into that. Because from that is where your real gift is that you have to give the world. You know, Tracy,

thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. It was really great to be here. There you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tracy. If you did, make sure to send a message over on Twitter and tag me on Instagram, letting me know what you thought about this.

Also, tweet Tracy McMillan. You can check out all of the show notes of how to connect with her, her new book, and all that good stuff, including watching the full video interview over at lewishouse.com slash 308. Also, if you haven't subscribed to the YouTube channel yet, make sure to go to YouTube slash Lewis House. We've got a ton of great content, video interviews, inspirational messages. We're releasing videos three days a week, and it's going to continue to get bigger and better. So make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll have everything linked up at the show notes at lewishouse.com slash 308. If you enjoyed this, make sure to share with your friends over on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,

and all the places online that you like to hang out. And if this is your first time listening to a School of Greatness podcast, then please subscribe over on iTunes, Stitcher, or SoundCloud and let me know what you think. I appreciate you guys. I love you very much. And to close it out with the quote that we used in the beginning of this episode, if you want to go fast, go alone.

If you want to go far, go together. If you want to go far, go together. You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.