The School of Greatness - 318 Michael Hyatt on Leaving the Drift & Getting Back Your Life

Episode Date: April 20, 2016

"When you get clear on the what, the how starts showing up." - Michael Hyatt If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at http://lewishowes.com/318

This is episode number 318 with New York Times best-selling author Michael Hyatt. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone to this special episode with my dear friend, Michael Hyatt.

I just got back from San Diego where I was giving a speech at the Social Media Marketing World Conference and had a great time connecting with so many people I've known for years in the online marketing social media space. And it was just a lot of fun to catch up. I feel like it's a high school reunion every time I go back there. And I got a chance to sit down with Michael Hyatt. He's a New York Times bestselling author. He's the former chairman and CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishers,

and he has a blog that gets over a million unique visitors a month. And he's also an expert in the field of social media. His blog is ranked by Google in the top one half percent of all blogs with more than one million page views a month. And Forbes Magazine named him one of the top 10 online marketing experts to follow and one of the top 50 social media influencers. And Michael is one of those guys that just spews integrity, and everything he creates is of the highest value. And some of the things we covered today in this episode are what the drift is and why so many of us get caught in it,

the three questions to ask yourself to live an intentional life. Why Michael puts himself as the number two priority in his life over everything else. And how your priorities can give you courage with every decision you make. We cover that and so much more in this episode, number 318, with the one, the only, Michael Hyatt. Welcome back. I'm one of the School of Greatness podcasts. Very excited I got my good friend, Michael Hyatt. Good to see you.

Good to see you, buddy. Very excited. New York Times bestselling author. And got a new book out called Living Forward, A Proven Plan to Stop Drifting and Get the Life You Want. We'll have it all linked up here in the show notes and also on the YouTube channel below. Make sure to check out this book. We're here in San Diego.

We're at a social media conference. When did I first meet you? Probably like four years ago, right? Yeah, it was probably about four years ago. Then, of course, you came to Nashville and stayed in my home. Yes. Got to meet my family. That was amazing. That was amazing. I've came to Nashville and stayed in my home. Yes. Got to meet my family. That was amazing.

That was amazing. And I've been to Nashville twice with you, right? Oh, wow. We did a Nashville Mafia. Which was a blast. Which I have the photo in my studio, which was awesome. And I came back and did your podcast for my book, so I appreciate you having me on there. You've got to come back again so we can do another Nashville media meetup.

I'd love to. Maybe next year when my book comes out, we'll do it again. Okay, good. I'll host you. And when's your next book coming out? You don't know yet. Probably about a year and a half. Yeah, so around the same time.

Yeah, good. Okay, perfect. So Michael is an incredible leader in the online space, but you're also a publisher. You had a publishing company for a number of years, right? Yeah, well, I spent my entire career practically in the book publishing world. Most recently as the chairman and CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishers. But I left that in 2011 to go stake my claim in speaking and online marketing and all that, something I'd always dreamed of doing. And I'm loving it. Five years, just past my five-year

anniversary. You've blown up. You wrote a book called Platform, right? Yes, that's right. And your audience has just blown up. Your blog is, I don't know, probably one of the top blogs in the leadership space. You're getting, what, half a million visitors a month, something around there? Yep, about half a million. You've got a huge online marketing course called Platform University, correct? Right. And you just do an incredible job.

Thank you. If anyone wants to learn how to become a leader in this space, follow Michael Hyatt. Now, you've got this book out called Living Forward, and you break it down with asking three questions, right? I do. And what are those three questions? Okay. Before we do that? Yes. Can we talk about the drift? Because this sets the whole thing up. A lot of people are in the drift. A lot of people are in the drift. A lot of people. And what is the drift? Okay. So my wife, Gail, we've been married for 38 years. In fact, she's flying in tonight. Can't wait to see her. Yes. But after we'd been married about 10 years, we decided to go on a vacation in Hawaii and celebrate our anniversary, except we were pretty much broke. Right. So cashing all the airline miles. We got

there, we rented a car, got a hotel, but we didn't really have any money left over for entertainment. Yes. But we decided to go snorkeling because the lessons were free. So we took our lessons. They took us out on the reef. Have you ever snorkeled in Hawaii? Yes, but not like far out there. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it exploded.

Yes, it's insane. So I saw an eel when I was doing it, and I kind of got scared, so I haven't been out That would freak me out. I saw a little eel hissing at me, so I was like, I want to go back. Well, we found out we could rent snorkeling gear for like $10 for the whole week. So we said, okay, cool. So next morning, we went to the lagoon that was adjacent to our hotel. The water was crystal clear, totally calm.

There was a nether soul out there. It was really early in the morning. And we started paddling around. And it was like swimming in an aquarium. You know, all the fish, multicolored fish, the seaweed swaying in the sunlight. And we were just totally captivated. Finally, after about 45 minutes, I decided to look up. I went, oh, my gosh.

We had drifted, got caught in a riptide. And we were so far out to sea. Thankfully, we were together. We were so far out that the hotel looked like a postage stamp in the distance. Scared me to death. Like a mile away or something? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's far away.

Yeah, far away. And Gail lifted up her head. She screamed. She said, what are we going to do? We had a boogie board, thankfully. I said, we're going to swim like crazy and try to get back. And I didn't even know you're not supposed to swim against a riptide. Fortunately, I think it had gone out by that time.

Yeah. But we swam hard for 45 minutes, maybe an hour, pulled ourselves up on the beach, collapsed, and we'd never been snorkeling again until last fall. I mean, such a scary experience. It's scary. But this is how most people live their lives. They don't wake up in the morning and say, hey, I think I'm going to stop taking care of myself, start eating junk food, get really sick, and maybe if I'm lucky, I'll have a heart attack.

myself, start eating junk food, get really sick, and maybe if I'm lucky, I'll have a heart attack. Or they don't walk away after getting married and say, I think I'll stop dating my spouse, stop connecting, and end up separated or divorced. That doesn't happen. They drift to that end because they don't have an intention to do anything different. You see it in careers, you see it in health, you see it in marriage, You see it in parenting. And so if this book has a villain, it's the drift. Because living with intention, creating a life plan is the exact opposite. And probably 2% of the people in the world don't fall into the drift. They're living intentionally. They're creating their outcomes.

But the main thing is that people never drift to a destination they would have chosen. What do you mean? I mean, you're going to somewhere you don't want to be. You're going to go someplace you don't want to be. Yeah. You're going to find yourself. You're not going to land in success when you're drifting. I mean, it might happen, but it's very unlikely.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, even the ones at the top 1% who are intentional can sometimes be in the drift for a week or a month. Totally. Get off track.

I mean, it happens to me. Yeah. It happens to all of us. You know, where I just, I mean, just recently, I just went through the book promotion here. And so for six weeks, that was all I was doing. You were in the drift while you were promoting to not be in the drift. Exactly. I mean, so, you know, I wasn't working out like I normally do.

You're having junk food a little bit here and there. I'm traveling like crazy. Yep. Yeah. So, you know, you just have to get back and dial it back in and swim for the shore and get more intentional. Exactly. Interesting.

Okay. So for those that are in the drift already, is it too late for them? Absolutely not. Okay. Yeah. That's the cool thing. Yeah. So there's at any point along the way you can get intentional.

And what Daniel and I advocate in the book is creating a life plan. Now, I don't know how much experience you've had creating strategic plans, but in the corporate world where I came from- That's all you do, huh? I mean, we'd go off for a three-day retreat with 70 people. We'd create this huge strategic plan notebook, and it would have timelines and resort lists and Gantt chance and all that stuff. We'd bring it home, put it on the shelf, never look at it again. Right. So that's not what we're talking about.

Right. So with a life plan, you're talking about a brief, simple document that you create. You can't outsource it, but it's only about 12 to 15 pages long. Right. But it covers every area of your life, and it really talks about what you envision for a better future. What are the destinations that you want to visit? What does perfect health look like for you?

What does a great relationship with a significant other look like? What does your career or your business look like? And so we take you through that process in the book, and that's where the three questions come in. Amazing. Okay, so what are the three questions? What's the first one? I thought you'd ask that. Thank you.

The first one is, how do you want to be remembered? Now, here's why this is such a powerful question. Stephen Covey said, start with the end in mind. Well, this is like the ultimate of that. This is like the last moment. The last moment. So we invite you to act as if you were an invisible guest at your own funeral. So there on the front row are your loved ones, you know, your family, behind them are your friends, behind them maybe your colleagues, people you work with, contractors, employees, whatever. And what would they say if they were asked to step up to the mic and give a eulogy? Now, for most people, it's a little scary because probably the people that mean the most to them, they just kind of know that maybe they really haven't been relating to them in the way they want to. And there's a gap between what they would like for that person to say and what they would really say.

And so for a lot of people, in fact, the gal we met in the lobby, Sherry, started crying when she was telling me about it. Because she said it was a very emotional experience for her. But here's the good news. You're not dead yet. So what you can do is you can begin to influence those conversations today. Steve Jobs said two years before he died, this was almost prophetic. Yeah. He said, death is the single best tool I've ever found for making the important decisions in life. Wow. Because he knew he was going to die. He did. Right. He did. And so we take you through these legacy statements where

you create these legacy statements in terms of how you want to be remembered by the people that are most significant to you. And it's a powerful, powerful exercise that's designed to do one thing, give you clarity about what's really important. Yeah. Because you can begin to inform those conversations now. There's always conversations at a funeral. You're talking about the deceased. You're talking about what they meant to you, what was the legacy of their life. And sometimes we think legacy is for somebody like Margaret Thatcher or Abraham Lincoln have a legacy and Bill Clinton will have a legacy. But the truth is all of us are going to have a

legacy. The only question is, is it going to be a good one or a bad one? What's the mark that we're going to leave in the world? So back in 2005, my father-in-law died. He was an Air Force colonel, had lived an incredible life, left behind this great legacy and his five children, including my wife, who was the youngest. And he and I were very close. He meant the world to me. And so he had this full military funeral where the jets were flying over and 21 gun salute, all that stuff. I don't think they do that anymore.

It's emotional. It was very emotional. The flag on the thing and everything. Yes, presented it to my mother-in-law. So then fast forward to at the end of the funeral, we go back to my house, all the relatives there, all the friends, and we're hauling out these photo albums. And we're just telling these stories. You know, we're laughing, we're crying, crying we're talking about what he meant to us and it dawned on me we can begin to engineer those conversations today yeah by being intentional in the relationships

that matter most and so that first question is really powerful how do you want to be remembered go to the end of your life, get clarity, because the truth is we're not going to live forever. That's kind of it. Technology can't advance that. Well, you know, hopefully we're going to live longer, but probably not forever.

Yeah. Maybe in like a couple thousand years someone will figure out a way to make us live a few hundred years. Forever. Yeah, forever. Who knows? Anything's possible in my mind.

Interesting. So what's your answer to the first question? Well, my answer to the first question? Well, my answer to the first question, because I've written down these series of legacy statements, and I'll just tell you a few of these. Like, I talked about Gail. Here's what I said about her. Here's how I want to be remembered. I want Gail to remember how I loved her, understood her, pursued her, and helped her accomplish her dreams. I want her to remember specific times that we shared together,

times we laughed, times we cried, times we spent discussing things that were important to both of us, and times we just held one another and watched the sunset. Here's another one. This is one for my followers, because you and I have followers in social media, and I actually wrote a legacy statement about those. So I said, I want them to remember my transparency, authenticity, and generosity. I want them to remember how I exceeded their expectations and gave them compelling, life-changing content and resources. Most of all, I want them to see in me a model of a life worth emulating. Wow. It's pretty powerful. So just trying to get clear on what the end game is here. So that's the first question. I love it. Okay. So question one, get clear on the ends.

That's right. Okay. Question two. Question two is what matters most to you? Now, most of us know what's important to our spouse or our significant other. We know what's important to our boss if we have a job. We may know what's important to our shareholders if we're running a company or what's important to our society. But this is a question about what's important to you. Because the myth is we can kind of do it all. Well, we can do anything we want. We just can't do everything we want. So we have to make decisions. And the truth is our lives, where you're at right today and where I'm at today, is in large part a result of all the decisions that we made along the way and our priorities. So in this exercise, what Daniel and I help you do is identify the major life accounts.

And we refer to them almost like a bank account. You know, like you've got a relationship if you're married with your spouse. And that's like a bank account that can be overdrawn, you know, or you can have a surplus in it, or you could be kind of spending what you're bringing in. Same thing with your health. Same thing if you're bringing in. Same thing with your health. Same thing if you're a parent. Same thing with your job. Same thing with your career, your finances, all that.

So all these life accounts, how do they stack up? What's the priority? So for me, you know, this is just, I'm a person of faith, so God comes number one. But number two is kind of a surprise to people because I put myself number two. Then comes Gail, my wife. Then my kids. Then my job's like number five. So the reason I put myself so high on the list is it's like when you, I just flew in today into San Diego.

Put your mask on first. Put your mask on first. That's it. That's exactly right. Yeah. I always tell people, you know, the most important person in the world is yourself. Yeah. Exactly right.

Yeah. I always tell people, you know, the most important person in the world is yourself. Yeah. And if you're neglecting all of your needs first and giving to everyone else but not to you, then you're not going to be able to serve more people. Well, that's the key, what you just said, Lewis, because to me the essence of leadership is service. Yes. I want to serve my wife. I want to serve my kids and my sons-in-law and my grandkids.

I want to serve the people that work for me. Yeah. But if I'm sick, I can't do that. You can't do anything. Yeah me. But if I'm sick, I can't do that. If my marriage is blowing up, I can't do that. If my business is in trouble or I'm financially spinning out of control, I can't do that. So these priorities are really important to identify. Now, it really helps in kind of the warp and woof of life when you have to make some really tough decisions. Another example. In 2009, I was the CEO of Thomas Nelson. We were in the middle of the recession. It was brutal. Thomas Nelson is a publishing company? It's a publishing company. At the time, it was the seventh largest publishing company in the U.S. It was acquired by Harper

Collins, now a division of Harper Collins. We were in the middle of the recession. It was hand-to-hand combat. We were working like crazy, just trying to keep the ship afloat. And I was tired. I was wrung out. I wasn't spending as much time with my wife as I know I needed to or with my family. And so I told the board, I said, I've got to have a vacation, guys. Otherwise, I'm just going to burn out. They said, great, do it.

So we decided we're going to go to Colorado, deep in the Rockies, and just unplug and unwind. And we love Colorado. Did you go snowboarding or skiing, or were you just more hanging out, hiking? Yeah. At this time, it was the winter. Okay. So we were at a friend's cabin really deep in the woods.

Sure, sure. But we kind of like fantasized about this for weeks and weeks and weeks. So we were flying to Denver. We were going to drive up into the mountains, and we had to stop in Dallas, change planes. Yeah. And I made the mistake of checking my email. There was a message from the chairman of my board and he said, Hey, change of plans. I need you back in Nashville on Monday. He said, we're coming in. He said, we've got some issues that we need to resolve. I mean, my heart saw, and I just thought, so I handed my phone to Gail and I let her read

it. And of course she was crestfallen also. But to her credit, she said, honey, look, I know this is tough. You do whatever you need to do. I'll totally support it. I mean, she's always been like that. She was great. So I remember my priorities, you know, me, then Gail, and then the kids. And then the job. And then the job. Yeah. So I took a deep breath. It wasn't easy.

But my priorities gave me courage. That's the key thing. And clarity. Clarity and courage. And when you have that, you can say no to the non-essentials so that you can say yes to what's most important. Yes. So I wrote back to the chairman and I said,

hey, I understand. I really wish you'd postpone this meeting. I said, if you can't, my team will be there to assist you. I'm going to Colorado as we discussed. See you when I get back. So I left. So I got back. I didn't check my email, but I got back from the end of that trip. And I checked with my CFO when I got back. I said, hey, did the guys come in? They came in from New York. And he said, yeah. I said, what was the meeting about? He said, I don't know, but we totally could have handled it by email.

Oh, my gosh. It was like a nothing meeting. No big deal. Yeah, yeah. No big deal. And I almost scuttled a much-needed vacation. But see, when we have priorities, we can distinguish between the urgent and the important. And sometimes the urgent shows up like it's important, but it rarely is.

But you've got to get clear on your priorities. So we literally, in the life plan, have you come up with your life accounts and then arrange them in order. And they'll change based on the seasons in your life. Sure, sure. Right? So even if you're 20 or when you're 30, it's going to be different potentially. So it's a living document.

It's a living document. You're going to tweak it for the rest of your life. I was even working on mine today coming out. Yeah. There you go. I like it. Okay. So the second question, again, to recap, it's more about getting clear on the plan.

That's right. So the first question is, how do you want to be remembered? Yep. The second question is, what's most important to you? Yes. The third question is, how do you get from where you are to where you want to be in every area of your life? So that's the game plan. That's the game plan. Yes. Okay. And this is where it gets really fun. So we break it into three parts. So we help you get really clear on what we call an envisioned

future statement for each category. I'll give you an example here in a minute. Then we help you look at your current reality. Because once you kind of envision the future and get really clear on where you want to go, now it's time to be brutally honest. You've got to admit where you are. Yeah. Then the next question you ask is, what are the specific commitments you're willing to make that will take you from where you are to where you want to be?

And we keep it really simple. We don't come up with this complicated plan that you're all going to figure out because that's not usually how things show up. Usually you get just enough light to take the next step. And as you take those things open up and you get clearer on the path, but for these people that think they've got to get totally clear before they're going to take a step or before they're going to start, you know, they're going to be disappointed. You know, that's pretty much just an excuse for not getting started. Right, right. Okay. Interesting. So how do you set it up for

people to create this? Okay. So let me give you, so again, we really believe that writing is important, even if you're not a writer, because somebody once said, I can't find the source of this, but thoughts disentangle themselves passing over the lips and through pencil tips. Interesting. So there's something about our thinking that when we have to write it, we get clarity for ourselves. And so, for example, here's another example with my health. I love this one.

And again, this is my envisioned future. It's not present reality. Sure, sure. Okay, I'm moving toward it. Okay, so I say I'm lean and strong, possessing vibrant health and extraordinary fitness. And notice we write it in the present tense because there's power in that, like you're already there. Yes.

Okay? And I said my heart is strong and healthy. My arteries are supple and clear of obstructions. My autoimmune system is in excellent condition. I'm disease, infection, and allergy resistant. I have more than enough energy to accomplish the tasks I undertake. This is because I control my mental focus, work out six days a week, choose healthy foods, take supplements as needed, and get adequate rest.

So that's my envision future statement just for my health account. Okay? So I have great clarity about what I want in my health. And I've got a similar kind of statement for my business. Relationships. Yep. Everything. Amazing. Okay. And so then you've got a similar kind of statement for my business. Yep. Everything. Amazing.

Okay. And so then you've got to kind of go back from that and say, okay, that's the future. Great. I'm excited about that. You know, whoot. But where are you today? You know, maybe you're a couch potato and you haven't worked out in six years. And, you know, you've got to start where you are.

Yeah. But getting clear on the future is important. And a lot of people bail on that. They don't give themselves permission to dream. In the book, we give you permission to dream. Why do people not give themselves permission, you think? I think people go to how before they go to what. How am I going to do this? How would I even achieve that?

You see this in business, right? You see people, they say, you try to get them to dream about their business. They go, well, I couldn't do that. I'm not good in front of a camera. Or I couldn't do that because I don't have the capital to invest in it. Forget the how. When you get clear on the what, the how starts showing up. Wow.

So vision before strategy every time, all the time. What would you say is your vision for your business right now, moving forward? Well, it's a big vision okay what is that so uh financially we want to do 100 million dollars but we want to do it in a highly profitable way with 100 employees wow and really as an online training company continuing to do the stuff that that we're doing yeah amazing by when it's's probably a 10-year plan. 10-year plan. Yeah. I believe it. I mean, in what, four years or five years when you guys started in 2001?

No, 2011. 2011. 2011, you've already grown. Five years. Yeah, we're almost at eight figures now. It's amazing. It's great. So we've doubled every year since we started. It's amazing.

So, knock on wood. What do you think has been the key to that in five years doing that? You know, I think a lot of it is just hiring really great people. I think if you don't think you need a team, your dream's not big enough. And so for me, what I love about having a team is that it allows me to get more and more focused on what only I do well. Because like when I began, I didn't do everything. You did it all. And I was a handicapped CEO.

I didn't know anything. So I'm trying to find the FedEx box, and I'm trying to book my own travel, and I'm trying to do all this stuff. Taking me 30 minutes doing this and that. Totally inefficient. It's just not my gifting. Today, because of all these people helping me, I'm able to focus on the three things that I do best, which is create content, deliver the content, and be the visionary for the company, kind

of create the picture for the future. And if it's not that, I don't get involved. Somebody else does it. And also building relationships probably, right? Yeah, building relationships is key too. Okay, interesting. And what do you think people try to just do too much? They don't focus on their core three or four things that they do well?

Yeah. Well, I think what happens to a lot of guys is they kind of see the dream and become a successful solopreneur. Yeah. But they choke when it comes time to hire people because it's too much risk. That's interesting because I'm building my team out right now. We've got about 10 people, half here in L.A. and half around the country. And it's a challenge bringing new people on to the mix and the training and then, you know, just connecting as you grow. How did you learn?

I guess you were a CEO of a bigger company already. But if you're a solopreneur and you're trying to grow into having five people on your team or 10 people, how do you learn that skill to manage the team? Yeah, well, part of it is get all the education you can, you know, read the books, read John Maxwell on leadership, you know, get all the training you possibly can, uh, be humble and honest, you know, hire a coach. I mean, I'll tell you, I really believe in coaches. Yeah. I think you can go further faster with a coach. You can avoid making your own mistakes by learning on somebody else's mistakes. Yeah. And so that's, that's one of the key things. I believe in a coach too. I use a coach for a lot of my speeches before every speech I call my coach.

And I just feel like I get so grounded and clear on the intention of what I want to create. And objective feedback. Yes. And I feel like, man, I always think after the speech, wow, I did a really solid job. And if I didn't have the coaching beforehand, I don't think I would have done as well. Yeah, because you don't see things that the coach can see. I'll give you a good example. When I was the CEO of Thomas Nelson, I had this great executive coach by the name of Eileen.

Brilliant. She gave me some of the best stuff I've ever learned. So one time she's sitting in a financial review meeting where all the divisional managers are coming and they're presenting their numbers for the last month, how they did. So at the break, she calls me aside. She said, can I talk to you for a minute?

I said, sure. She said, can I talk to you for a minute? I said, sure. She said, are you pissed off? And I said, no. She said, well, you might want to tell your face. And I said, what are you talking about? And she said, you never smile. She said, it's intimidating. And when people are intimidating,

they're not going to be forthcoming. They're going to be hiding stuff. And there's just not going to be the trust you need. She said, you've going to be forthcoming. They're going to be hiding stuff. And there's just not going to be the trust you need. She said, you've got to smile. Wow. And now you smile all the time. And now I smile all the time. You have a great smile. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Okay. But that's the kind of thing you get by having a coach. But I do think that the place that

people get stuck as business developers or business owners is it is some risk hiring somebody. Am I going to hire the right person? Am I going to be able to cover the overhead? I don't want to build overhead too big too fast. And all that I get is an art. But almost every time I've hired somebody else, if I've done the timing right and I've really thought through the plan, my income has gone up. It pays off. Because I can keep getting more narrow in my focus

and really stay in my unique ability. That's interesting. What would you say are like two or three things you do every single week with your team or every month that is essential in creating better unity and moving things forward? Yeah, well, a couple things. One is that I meet with my team once a week.

So my direct team. No, just my direct reports. Okay. And then all of them are meeting with their direct reports. Sure, sure. So we've installed in our company something called the four disciplines of execution. You familiar with that? No.

Dude. Tell me. It's the bomb. Yeah. They call it 4DX, the four disciplines of execution. So you come up with, in each department, your wildly important goals, your WIGs. And everything is built around that. And they talk about the difference between lead measures and lag measures.

So there's leading measures that tell you, kind of predict the future. But when you get your financial statements that tell you what happened last month, that's a lag measure. It's already happened. You can't influence it. But a lead measure that's telling you, for example, how many leads you're generating or how your conversion is, that's a lead measure. And you want to focus on that. But the book is fantastic. So we have those meetings in the company every week with all the employees.

I meet with what I call my executive team. I mean, it's not that big. But once a month, I go through the financial statements. And I really want everybody to be good at financial management so we stay out of trouble. And we're looking, for example, at a 16-week cash flow, what the future is. So if we can spot problems in advance, we can fix them. Keep the ox out of the ditch that way. I love it. I love it. Are you meeting with the team at all? Are you guys on a group call as well?

Yeah. Well, I mean, there's just a lot of interaction. I mean, I especially interact with our content team all day. And we're in Slack, you know, so all over that. We do meet as an entire company once a quarter. And I do training on that, leadership training. We also go through the financials because every person in our company gets a bonus based on the performance of the company. Really? Yeah. So the whole company knows everything that you're making, everything that's coming in. Exactly. Because their bonus

is pegged to that. We don't have any caps on the bonuses. So as high as the company can make money, they can continue to make bonus. That's great. That's great. And why do you keep writing books? You've written eight books now, is that right? Yeah. Why do you continue to write them? And why do you keep writing books? You've written eight books now? Yeah. Why do you continue to write them? What's the value in writing books in your mind?

I don't. Lead generation. Well, actually, it's a couple things. That's a main thing, but it also establishes your authority. I mean, you've seen this with your own book. Yeah, it's been a game changer. Total game changer. There's nothing that credentials you in this culture. Not a PhD.

Not a hit movie. I mean, that's going to come and go. But you write a book, and all of a sudden, you're somebody. People really respect that. Now, are you still someone today when everyone's writing a book and everyone's self-publishing? Totally. There's still a mystique about that. Really?

Yeah. Huh. Yep. Okay. And so for me, I've got the next five books mapped out that I want to do. Really? Yeah. And right now we're, I'm just telling you before we started, we're about to go shop a three-book deal.

Three-book deal, yep. So my plan is to release, and this will be, the first one won't be out for 18 months, but to release a new book every year. Why every year? Is that too much? Because I've got a lot of books I want to write. Wow. Okay. More than that would definitely be too much, and that's kind of borderline too much. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Can you say what

they are? The ideas? Yeah. So my next book is going to be a book around goal setting. I've got that course, Five Days to Your Best Year Ever. And so I'm doing a book called Life Score. You came up with a test called that too, right? Yeah. So we did an assessment that just blew up. And so people want to know what their number is. Interesting. And then how do you move the number? So that's going to be the next book. Then I'm doing a book on productivity after that.

I'm doing a course on productivity this summer. Wow. And the tentative title on that's called Free Time. We're not going to try to help you do more. We're going to try to help you do less so you can live more. Right. Right? I like that.

And then the third book is going to be a book, the working title on it's called The Intentional Leader, but it's just a book on leadership. Interesting. Going to John Maxwell. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. Doesn't he have a book called Intentional Living? He does. Yeah. So Intentional Leadership. But my company has been called Intentional Leadership. Right, right, right. Long before his book. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's great. Who do you look up to the most? Or who do you watch like pretty closely that you're like, wow, they're just doing a great job with what they're doing in this space? Other than you? Other than me, yeah, yeah.

Well, John Maxwell on leadership is just amazing. He's crushing. He's a good friend. And I published him in Thomas Nelson for more than a decade. But I look to a guy, I think Pat Flynn is killing it. I just love the consistent quality of the content. His book, Will It Fly? Incredible. You read that? Yeah. I skimmed it, yeah. I bought 10 copies of it and gave it to all the guys at Mastermind.

That's great. But yeah, I mean, Tony Robbins. Tony constantly inspires me. What about someone not in this space? Just someone in general who's like building a brand. Maybe it's not an online brand, but just building a brand that you're like, wow, they're just doing a great job. Maybe it's a celebrity or politician or someone in a different space. You're like, man. I can't think of one. Can't think of one?

No. Sorry. That's okay. It's okay. What is the biggest challenge for you right now in your business? I think the biggest challenge is to not overcommit on my time because I've got so much stuff I want to do. So many opportunities, right?

There are. And I think that scarcity shows up for me in kind of a funky way, and it's like there's not enough time. So I've got to do it all this year. Yeah. And my team keeps saying, there's plenty of time. Yeah. Slow it down.

Let's just really focus. And the thing I don't want to do either, I want to build a company that doesn't swallow people whole. What do you mean? Yeah, they have a life. So I want for my people, I mean, I think my success is measured not in how big my company gets, but whether I create an environment for the people that are working in it so they can have work-life balance. They can realize their own dreams, their dreams of their family, their dreams for their own careers. And if I can't help them do that, I want to help them move on to someplace else that can do that. That's good.

Who was the most influential person in your life growing up? Strangely, my dad. Yeah, and he went through a really dark period when he was really drinking a lot and alcoholic. It influenced me kind of in two ways. I mean, early on, like when I was in grade school, my dad was my constant companion. We fished, we played baseball, built model airplanes, all that. But then as life started coming at him, and I didn't know this at the time,

but he was really suffering from this severe war injury that he got in the Korean War. And I remember at one point in my life, I looked at him when he was passed out, and I said, I will never be like that. And that became the driving force of my life. And I overcorrected. He was in of my life. And I overcorrected. He was in the drift, right? I overcorrected and became driven. And I think that's why I'm so committed in this book to living a designed life.

You know, you can drift, you can be driven, or you can design. And I think living a designed life is so critical. By the way, one thing I didn't finish on this. All this takes to create a life plan is just a day, to set a day aside is so critical. By the way, one thing I didn't finish on this. All this takes to create a life plan is just a day, to set a day aside and do it. And that's really what we recommend. We walk you through the whole day to do it. But if you think about the fact

that the average person spends five hours shopping on the internet to buy a car, that doesn't include the negotiation or the test drives, but just to buy the car. The average bride spends 21 days planning a wedding. At least, probably, right? I know. I have five daughters, as you know. Oh, I know. Four of them are married. So I've been through this four times. Oh my gosh. That's like a year

of your life. Just a wedding planning problem. Oh my gosh. Unbelievable. But to spend a day thinking through what it is you want out of life doesn't seem like a lot to ask. No, it's not much at all. So we walk you through that. I like that. I like that. What would you say is the biggest lesson your dad taught you? I think the biggest lesson my dad continues to teach me this.

He's 82. He's in good health. He's the most positively optimistic person I've ever met. Even though he suffers from chronic pain. But we go over there typically to his house and my mom's house once a week. And I mean, they're just, they don't complain, even though they could. They're just positive and upbeat. I remember there were times when I was going through some business crisis or something, I didn't know who to call. So I called my dad and said, dad, here's the situation. And my dad said, well, son, I don't understand anything about that,

but here's what I do know. You're going to do fine. So do you just hang in there? You're going to do fine. You've got what it takes. And to hear that from your father is one of the best gifts you can ever get. It's pretty powerful. Wow. What about when you were a CEO of a publishing company? What was the biggest lesson you learned through that process of being a CEO? Well, I think a lot of things. I mean, I think that when I became a CEO, I really did wonder if I had what it took. I had 650 employees. Oh, my gosh. We were doing a quarter of a billion a year.

Wow. A lot of pressure. And, you know, you kind of have to put on the face of confidence, like, you know what you're doing. But you go home at night, and in the darkness of the night, you're thinking, it's only a matter of time before they figure out. I don't know what I'm doing. But, you know, I've spoken to CEOs all over the world.

All CEOs feel that way. Really? Yeah, the ones that don't are the ones you need to worry about. But most people that are in positions of significant leadership have that kind of self-doubt. But the good thing about it is it keeps you humble. Yeah. And it keeps you hungry. And it keeps you alert.

And so after a while, I learned to embrace it. You know, just go, you know what? This is good. This is kind of how my body's set up. It's kind of like when I do public speaking now and I always get nervous before I speak. Do you get nervous? go, you know what? This is good. This is kind of how my body set up. It's kind of like when I do public speaking now and I always get nervous before I speak. Do you get nervous? Yeah. Sometimes. Less, less nervous now than I used to. Yeah. I've been, the book tour, it really helped me get over a lot of it because I just did a speech after speech after speech.

So I kind of felt like, okay, I got a lot of the nerves out, but if I don't speak for a few months and I get a big speech again, it's like, ooh, I forget what this is like. Yeah. And so, you know, I just, I kind of had this mantra that I rehearsed to myself before I go up on stage. In fact, I got several of them, but one of them is just, this is my body's way of preparing me for peak performance. Feeling the nerves. Yeah, feeling the nerves.

I'm just like, I've learned to embrace it and just go, oh. Get ready. That thing's showing up again. Yeah. And so now I kind of reinterpret it as being excited. Occasionally, that didn't work. But most of the time it does. Okay.

And what about from the last five years? What's the biggest lesson going on your own, not having this big company behind you, but starting kind of from scratch and a new phase of your life? What's the thing you've learned? I think that there's always more. There's always another level you can go to. Because I really thought, I remember when I first started,

I thought if I can just get my company to a million dollars a year. And then you hit that mountain and you realize, oh my gosh, there's a whole mountain range. Right, right. And then it was five million

and then whatever. But I just think that realizing that there's always another level. And there's always another level for me to grow. And that's, I remember having this conversation with somebody, I won't mention her name, but you and I both know her. And she said, when is enough enough? And I said, well, first of all, that's a great question.

But, you know, certainly in terms of material things, I don't need any more stuff. You probably don't either. Yeah. You've got a great home. Yeah, I've got a great home and I've got, you know, all the toys. I'm going to get bored with that stuff. That doesn't really challenge me anymore. But I tell you what really does challenge me and why it'll never be enough, no matter how big my company gets is because I like what has to happen

to me in order to grow to that next level. Yeah. Because I have to develop new capabilities, new intellectual capabilities, new emotional stamina, whatever it is. But that's why I keep pressing for the next level. I love that. I love that. That's why I hate, by the way, the word retirement. What are you going to do when you retire? That's what I understand.

I mean, what do people do when they retire? Die. I don't get this. Most of them die within five years after they retire. Really? Do you know Dan Sullivan? The coach? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm in Dan's strategic coach program. Phenomenal program, by the way. That's what I hear. And Dan is 71 years old. Dan has a 25-year plan for his life. Wow.

And one of his basic principles that I love is he says, you've got to create a future that's bigger than your past. Now, think about the people you know. There's people that you and I both know that their past is bigger than their future. Yeah. It's like they're still living in the glory days. You know, probably people we went to high school with. A lot of former pro athletes.

Yes. Live in the past of like what they did 10 years ago. That's right. And they never create something powerful moving forward. And it's just a matter of time before they die. Wow. But if you can reverse that

and say, no, I'm going to create a future that's always bigger than my past. And how can I do that? Because the truth is, we're not dead yet,

so I still think we have a purpose here. Yeah. Interesting. In fact, I think if we're not dead, we probably haven't fulfilled the purpose for which

we were created. Wow. Okay. So you're always trying to create something bigger. Yep. And by bigger, I don which we were created. Wow. Okay. So you're always trying to create something bigger. Yep. And by bigger, I don't mean more money. Deeper impact.

Deeper impact. More reach. More significance. More creativity for yourself as well, probably. Yep. Exactly. Interesting. What's something you really want to learn over the next five to ten years that you haven't learned yet?

that you haven't learned yet? I just want to become a better and better content developer and develop my skills there in speaking and delivering video and all that. I mean, every time I see something that somebody else has done that's really great, you're like, I want to do that. I've got to, wow. Like I just deconstructed.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I think that's a never-ending quest. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. Okay. Okay, so it's the last day. Actually, yeah, I think that's a never-ending quest. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. Okay. Okay, so it's the last day. Actually, no, it's not the last day. You're actually the invisible guest at your funeral. Better yet, your father comes back and is at your funeral 50 how many years from now,

and he's about to go up to the mic and say something. What do you want him to say? Ugh. And how many people are there? I hope a lot. So what does he walk up and say? What would you love for him to say? You know, my dad tells me this a lot.

But what I'd like him to say is he was proud of me, that he felt like he was amazed that I realized my potential, that he's proud of me for loving Gail, my wife, for all these years, for being committed to my family, for making an impact in the world, that I was a good steward of what I've been given. You know, that I was a good steward of what I'd been given. That's really what I'm looking for. You know, that I leave nothing on the field. That I played full out, that I died with my boots on, and that I gave it everything. That's cool.

You're going to make me cry. I like that, yeah. What about your daughter? What would your daughter say, or one of your daughters? You know, it's kind of interesting because one of the uh, Gail did for me about eight years ago is that she had all of my daughters record about a five minute thing for me. Oh my God. I'd be like in tears probably. Five daughters. They all, she did this. She did it. She had my five daughters. Oh, my gosh. She had a couple of my grandkids. She had my best friends.

Oh, my gosh. And then she took my favorite music, and so she'd have one of them say something, play a song. So then she sent me out into the woods. Oh, you're like in tears. And I was like, for three hours. Oh, my gosh. I was just, I should play one of them for you sometime. I mean, I was just in tears.

Oh, my gosh. What was this for? A birthday or Father's Day? It was when I turned 50. and 40 sometime. I mean, I was just in tears. Oh, my gosh. What was this for? A birthday or Father's Day? It was when I turned 50. Wow. Amazing. And I just, occasionally, I'll just still listen to it and just cry like a baby. Oh, my gosh.

But I think, I mean, you asked what the girls would say or what one of my daughters would say. I think there's one thing I learned as a dad of daughters, and I don't mean this in a sexist kind of way, but as it turns out, girls like to talk. And I spend a lot of time listening. And I think it really honed my skills as a listener. And so I can remember when one of my daughters, she just broke up with her boyfriend. And, I mean, they had been together in Switzerland at this school, and they had been in a really meaningful relationship. It's tough. And so he broke the relationship, and she came home.

And I just held her hand, and she just cried. And I just think just being with her, I didn't say anything. But I can tell you, these various times when I would sit with my daughters and they would pour out their heart, and I didn't say anything. But I can tell you, these various times when I would sit with my daughters and they would pour out their heart, and I wouldn't say anything. And they'd get up and give me a big hug, and they'd say, Dad, that was so awesome. Thanks for your counsel. And I'm like, I didn't say anything.

Wow. What are you really listening for when you're listening to someone? I'm listening for their heart. Because here's what I can do if I'm not careful. I can go into CEO fix it mode. Coaching. Yeah. Like, okay, I got to figure it out. You need to take these three steps. And I mean, they throw things at me when I start that. Sure. And, and Gail's really helped me with that too. I remember one time I started doing that with her when I came home from the office and she said, she got really mad, pointed her finger at me and she said, let me just tell you something. You may be the CEO of

Thomas Nelson, but you're not the CEO here. Wow. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, yes, ma'am. I love that. What's something, final few questions. What's something that you're really proud of that you haven't really talked about much? Well, maybe not a lot of people know about. about? Wow. Well, I don't like to talk about this, but I do like giving. I think that's part of my responsibility as somebody who has means is to be a philanthropist. And so, again, it's not something I talk about. I've never been asked that direct question. But yeah, that's important to me, to give to causes that are really meaningful. Sure. And do you give a certain percentage every year, or is it more just when you feel... I keep trying to up it.

Yeah. Yeah, so I've started at 10% and have just continued to raise that. Do you feel like the more you give financially, the more you earn? Totally. Yeah. No, I don't do it for that reason. Right. But it's just a cause, right?

But it's just a, it is a kind of an interesting thing that happens. Right. Every really, you know, Tony Robbins, he said that when he does that, he always makes more. Yeah, he always makes more. And a lot of people say that like the key to actually generating wealth is giving wealth away. So. Yeah, I mean, my own philosophy is you just, you know, again, I'm a person of faith.

I just think. Yeah. God is extravagant in what he's given to us and he's constantly giving. And so I want to be that kind of person that's constantly giving and, you know, mostly behind the scenes. But I just, I love the thought of that. If you could have one word tattooed on your forehead that was reversed, you saw in the mirror in the morning or every time you were in the mirror, you had to get a tattoo, what would the word be? Or phrase? Yeah.

Well, it's kind of cliche because of everything we've been talking about, but it's be intentional. You know, design your future. But I think just be intentional. That's cool. I like that. Okay, this is the last couple questions. Again, since you brought the whole funeral into this, since your last day,

and you're about to pass. This is 50, 60 years from now. You're about to pass. Everyone's there. They're all happy and joyful moment. And every book you've ever written is erased. All this stuff is deleted. They've created your courses, everything. And your great, great, great grandson or granddaughter comes and says, we have a piece of paper. You just write down the three things that you know to be true

about your life and your experience. The most important things. We can't have access to any more of your books. We don't know the life plan. We don't know all these things, but what are the three most important things? And that's all we'll remember you by from these three things. What would you say? No pressure. No pressure. Yeah, yeah. Sorry.

Well, this is something I've said before, but I want to say it. It's not – it's this. You're not as smart as you think you are, but you have more potential than you can possibly imagine. So I think it's really important to stay humble and be an aggressive learner. That's probably the second thing, if it's not encapsulated in the first one, is just commit yourself to lifelong learning. I think that's the thing I saw in my father that was so impressive. My dad's always been the kind of guy.

He joined the Marine Corps when he was 17, didn't finish high school, except by GED while he was in the military. But he's always been an incredibly aggressive learner. So if he decided he wanted to learn something, he'd go buy all the books and just start pouring through them. And I saw him do that time and time again. So I think be an aggressive learner.

And I'd say the third thing is, make it your life goal to love well the people that matter most. Because at the end of the day, I mean, that's what people are going to be. They're right. That's it. That's it. So nobody says, you know, everybody points this out. Nobody says, gee, I wish I'd spent more time at work. Yeah. Or I wish I'd written one more book. Or made more money. Or made more money. Can't take it with you.

No, you can't. Yeah, I love that. That's good. Three truths. What are you most grateful for in your life recently? I just think the privilege of living at this time, at this moment, where we have things like the Internet. It's amazing. living at this time, at this moment, where we have things like the internet, where we can build these businesses, have the kind of freedom to create,

kind of create the life, design the kind of lives we want. I just think it's the most amazing time. And I wonder, will they be saying this 100, 200 years from now? Probably. But it's just, I just feel so grateful for that. That's cool. Before I ask the final question, I want to make sure everyone goes and gets the book, Living Forward.

And you go to michaelhyatt.com to get all the information there. Subscribe to your newsletter. Where are you hanging out the most online for people to connect with you personally? Probably Facebook today. Yeah, facebook.com forward slash Michael Hyatt. There you go. Awesome. And before I ask the final question,

I want to acknowledge you, Michael, for your incredible intentional leadership. Because again, I've told you this many times before that you are like the top person, I think, when I think of integrity and being intentional and grounded. And you're such a symbol of inspiration, I believe, for me and for so many people. I mean, just the person, Sherry, who we met in the lobby here, you know, just so many people love what you're doing. It's because you live such a great life and you're a great example for the rest of us. I want to acknowledge you for your constant ability to learn, to grow, and to give unselfishly to so many people. So I acknowledge that. I appreciate that. Thank you. Of course. Final question is what's your definition of greatness? Um, my definition of greatness is somebody

who makes a huge contribution in the lives of others. Somebody who actually stands for the greatness of other people and somebody who's persistent and won't give greatness of other people. And somebody who's persistent and won't give up on other people until that greatness is manifest in them. And I think all of us need somebody like that. Somebody who will stand for that when we're in a dark place. When we're

wondering if we've got what it takes. But somebody that can stand for us and say, you know what? I believe in you, Lewis. I'm standing for you. All right. know what? I believe in you, Lewis. I'm standing for you. All right. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Great to be with you. There you have it guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you found it helpful, please let me know and tweet me at Lewis house and at Michael Hyatt to let Michael know what you thought of this interview as well. You can share it over on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, and post it out.

The show notes and full video interview is back at lewishouse.com slash 318. I am off to St. Louis today to speak at my alma mater, Principia College and Principia High School. I'm very excited to go back to St. Louis where I spent a number of years there in high school and really developed myself as a young man growing up in my teen years there and in my early college years. You know, I learned so many things while being in St. Louis and going to Principia and so I'm really excited to go back to check out the campus to see some of the old professors that had to put up with me with never showing up to class and always wanted to just go play sports but I'm really excited to

give back and to help a community that really helped me in my years when I was struggling and trying to figure things out so I'm very excited to be in St. Louis again thank you guys so much for being here make sure to share the show notes at lewishouse.com and you know what time it is it's time to go out there and do something great Outro Music