The School of Greatness - 33 How The Hidden Power of Words Inspire, Empower and Create Change with Mignon Fogarty

Episode Date: October 7, 2013

Ever wonder what the hidden power of words are? My next guest would cringe at the sight of the grammar on this blog as I often confuse Whom with Who, and Affect with Effect. For me, it's always been about the passion behind my words, not the grammar or structure (that may also be my […]

This is episode number 33 with the grammar girl, Mignon Fogarty. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. What's up, all the greats out there?

Thanks so much for tuning in today, wherever you are in the world. And please continue to post pictures on Instagram or on Twitter and Facebook of where you're watching the show. I keep getting so many cool photos tagged with me and hashtag school of greatness on Instagram that they inspire me to come just visit you. Some beautiful places all around the world. A lot of people working out on the treadmill, taking a hike, all different places, driving in the car to work, whatever it may be. I appreciate you guys. Keep on posting those pictures and I love you for it. I'm in New York this week. I've been hanging out with some good friends of mine, some very inspiring business minds and influential people. And it's just such a blessing to one, be able to travel to New York City back and forth

from LA and just have the opportunity to travel in general. I just feel so grateful and blessed to have that opportunity. Number two, I just feel so grateful that I have quality people in my life. And I continue to encourage you to break away from the negative people that are creating a cancer in your life and start surrounding yourself with positive, inspiring, dedicatedly moving in the right direction of people taking action. Those are the people that are going to help you and support you in achieving your dreams. It's not the people that are constantly taking you down, pulling you down from the dream you have, the desire you have, the passion you have. So I encourage you to,

again, find people that inspire you, that you aspire to be like, the qualities you like in them that you want to have in yourself. Surround yourself with those people. I'm going to be doing an episode shortly in the near future on finding mentors and also masterminds. I keep getting a ton of requests on both of those topics. So make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you can get notified when those both come out. But today I've got an amazing guest and it's actually someone that I was aware of probably like five years ago, early on when I just got started. Before podcasting was even big, Grammar Girl was taking over the iTunes podcasting world. Mignon Forgity started this and I remember listening to it. I'll give you guys a little secret. I remember listening to Grammar Girl because one, I nearly flunked out of high school English and have, you know, always strive to have better grammar and increase my vocabulary. I feel like, you know,

my siblings have always had better grammar and a larger vocabulary than myself. So I've always tried to improve that. So I've always tried to improve that. And I remember early on listening to Grammar Girl, one, because it was fun and it was quick. And she had a very magnetic voice and a very mesmerizing voice in my mind. And I really appreciated the way she taught grammar and the use of words. And in this episode, you're going to learn some cool stuff. We have a really interesting conversation and I even stump her on a few questions that takes her a little bit to actually reply to. But I ask her a lot of cool questions and she covers some amazing things. One, we talk about her podcast in general and how she started and launched this huge podcast

network. She's a New York Times bestselling author. But I really want to dive into this episode and ask her questions like, how do words impact people's emotions, decisions, feelings, and actions? And she gives some great insights on that. I also go on the topic of how can someone increase their vocabulary without feeling like it's schoolwork or hard work? So how can we really increase our vocabulary that will build trust and inspire and move people in the direction that we want them to be moved in through the use of words? So with that, I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed connecting with Mignon. Now let the class begin. Hello everyone. Thanks again for tuning into the School of Greatness. I've got a new friend on that I actually met about five years ago, briefly about 10 minutes and we just reconnected. It's Mignon Fogarty and she just reminded me of how to say her name and it's

exactly a great tie-in for what she does every single day which is teaching people about grammar and about how to remember things with words and vocabulary and using grammar the right way and she's described it as it's like filet m, because I was going to make it mignon with a G, but it's silent. So thanks so much for coming on. Thank you, Lewis. It's so funny that you pointed that out, because I've been using that little trick to help people learn how to pronounce my name for years and years.

And I never made the connection that it's also what I do in my podcast, is give people little tricks to remember things. Exactly. I was just watching an interview of yours about your book launch from a while ago. And you were giving a trick about a word. I think it started with a V. I can't even remember. It was like, I don't even, I can't even pronounce some of the words that you say.

Oh, verisimilitude? Yeah. And I was like, you gave the guy a trick about it or something. You told him something about how to remember it or what it was about. And that's exactly what you did with your first name. So very interesting. You're natural. So what I want to know, you're a New York Times bestselling author.

You've written a number of books about grammar and creative writing and things like that. And what I want to know is, what is your obsession with words and grammar? creative writing and things like that. And what I want to know is what is your obsession with words and grammar? I think, you know, my obsession is I love words and grammar and I think they're fascinating. So, you know, part of it is, and I couldn't tell you why, but I've always loved writing when I was, you know, five, my mom took me to the library for little poetry classes. And when I was in high school, I was the editor inin-chief of my paper and I wanted to be a journalist. So, I mean, I've always loved words and writing, but I think I would say even more so my passion is helping people. I am just pathologically helpful and writing is what I can help people with best.

It's interesting because if you become obsessed with words and writing, you'd think that you'd want to become an English teacher at a high school or college or something like that, but you took a non-traditional route, correct? Right. I mean, I was working as a writer and editor for years before I started the Grammar Girl podcast, and I helped my clients with their writing. So I wrote for magazines and things like that, but I also did a lot of editing, which is helping people with their writing. So I wrote for magazines and things like that. But I also did a lot of editing, which is helping people with their writing. And then when I was looking for a topic to podcast about, because I loved podcasting in general, and it just seemed like

writing was a really good fit at the time. Now, when did you launch the podcast? It was like back in 2007 or something or what? Yeah, it was, I believe it was in the summer of 2006. I know I just celebrated my seven-year anniversary. So I believe it was July of 2006 when I started Grammar Girl. I did a science podcast for a few months before that. So 2006-ish, I started podcasting. I mean, you're kind of a pioneer because really it wasn't even that big back then. It was kind of like it kind of hit a trend for a while, but then it stopped.

And then now it's back, right? Yeah. Well, the real pioneers are people who were podcasting before iTunes started offering podcasts. And I am not one of those true pioneers. I started listening to podcasts in around 2005 when they became available on iTunes. So I started listening immediately when they became available on iTunes, but there were actually a lot of people podcasting before that and they're the real pioneers, but I'm definitely in that early, early phase. But you've been doing it for seven plus years now.

And that's, I mean, it seems like everyone's starting to come out now. I mean, even the celebrities and the, um, the comedians and the talk show hosts, they have their own podcasts now, like last year, this year, but you started seven years ago. That's a pretty, that's a pretty good insight. That's been the true, the big change from the beginning, you know, the, it first, it was the independence like me, and then a lot of the big networks got involved. So then ESPN and CNN and NPR were all podcasting, and all the independents complained about, oh, these big companies horning in on our area. I always thought it was great because it exposed more people to podcasting. But then in the last couple of years, it's been more celebrities and especially the comedians starting their own shows. It's really interesting to see who joins the mix every few years.

Right. Now, what's your – a couple of things. One is you took this nontraditional path where most people who are obsessed with words and grammar and writing would do some type of news job or teaching at a school. And you decided not to do that. And you learned how to monetize and build a you know a business around that you work from home correct right and i love it yeah work from home you work your own hours you do a podcast you create some books you do some speaking and you live a nice life right yeah no it's wonderful um you know it would be hard to create this job from scratch you You know, if you said you wanted to do this, it'd be hard to go do it. I kind of fell into it and have taken opportunities as they arise. podcast then I realized well this is an opportunity so you know I had worked in Silicon Valley during the dot-com days so I knew all about startups and I knew that this could be

a bigger business so then I started the quick and dirty tips podcast network I'm the founder of that and we have 14 or 15 shows now all different topics not just writing. There's parenting and money and health and nutrition and fitness. So it's a big network of podcasts. And I founded that and then partnered with Macmillan Publishers to really grow that. And they now do the day-to-day operations. Now, it's interesting. I'm actually remembering that my many ex-girlfriends ago, back six, seven years ago, showed me. I was into podcasting. She was listening to podcasts and things like that.

And I never really got into it. I could never really listen. But she told me about two podcasts at checkout. And one was Coffee Break Spanish. And maybe it was five years ago. I can't remember. But one was Coffee Break Spanish because I wanted to learn Spanish. So for a while, I was listening to those. And then I remember also that I hadn't

graduated college yet. I finally had my degree, but I didn't graduate college yet because I left early to go pursue football. And I was always horrible in English and almost did not pass high school, believe it or not, because I almost flunked English. And so I remember thinking, I want to start learning. I want to improve my vocabulary. And I remember she said, you got to check out Grammar Girl. And I was like, this is pretty cool. So you were one of the first podcasts that I actually listened to. My attention span only lasted me a couple months with yours and the coffee break Spanish, but I remember specifically your magnetic voice and it was like, it was mesmerizing. And there,

I loved your format because you know, the mostly were guys that I'd heard that were doing podcasts or whatever. And you were like this crisp, like the, the production value was so clean and clear back then. I remember it. And you were just like magnetic and mesmerizing. It was like, you know, these little, they were like 10 minutes long. It wasn't

like too crazy. So it was like perfect for me to like figure out one or two little quick things and then go on about my day. And, uh, I just really appreciate what you've created. So thank you for that memory. Thank you. Well, the production value is really important to me and the format is too. So I just love those comments. You know, back then it was, it was a bunch of, most podcasts back then were a couple of friends talking in their living room or their basement about something they were excited about, which is fine. But I've always, like, I'm impatient.

As you say, I have a really short attention span, maybe like you do. And I could not listen to hour-long podcasts. I still don't. They're too long. And so the 10-minute format and just get to the point and don't waste my time was very important to me. And I think that's one of the reasons, you know, that the podcast caught on is it was just useful. And, you know, I hope it sounded good. And it's funny, people either love my voice or hate it. So, you know, I'm glad to hear you

are one of the people who love it, but mesmerizing. That's what I thought it was. So, um, now one of the things now you let us share download numbers. Do you know how many downloads you've had since the beginning of time? Oh, since the beginning of time, it's, it's more than 45 million. Holy cow. Yeah. It's a lot. Cause I, there was a time when we migrated from one stats system to another and, and we lost a bunch of the early data, but I know, I know it's more than 45 million. Wow. So what about monthly? What's the kind of the average right now? Gosh, you know, I. I don't watch it so much lately. I watch our web stats much more closely, and I know I get about almost 2 million page views a month on my website. Wow.

Off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you actually what my podcast downloads are. That's amazing. But you've got almost 900 reviews, and they're basically all five-star. Everyone loves you. 45 million, that's such a huge number. That's really impressive. You've got to be in the top quarter, 1% of downloads for podcasts, right? Yeah.

What's interesting, the thing that makes Grammar Girl different is the content is so evergreen. So I get a lot of downloads of my old shows still, whereas most podcasters, you know, it's their new show that gets all the downloads, but I still get, I know it's between like three and 5,000 a month for a lot of my older shows. And that really adds to the download numbers over, especially over time, you know, cause as my archive grows and grows, each of those shows gets a lot of downloads. Cause people will subscribe now and they'll just go back and start listening to the first ones, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. So when did you realize that, one, you could do this non-traditionally, that this podcast was actually popular and you could monetize it and didn't have to work a job, but you could just do what you loved every day from your home? Yeah, I think it was about seven or eight months after I started. So, you know, I knew the numbers were big and people were excited and it could be a business and a network. But way back then, podcast advertising had not come together as a solid, reliable business model. You know,

we get an ad occasionally, but nothing reliable. And so it was actually when I got my book deal with Macmillan that I was able to quit my day job. So a lot of people think of me as a successful podcaster. And I mean, that's true. But it was really the books, especially in the beginning, that let me devote my time to the podcast, which is a great platform for the books. But it all sort of works together. Right. let me devote my time to the podcast, which is a great platform for the books, but you know, it all sort of works together. Right. Now would you say the podcast really sold the book? Like that you could see from your listeners that they were going out and buying the book when you were launching? Oh God, yes.

Really? Yeah. I really, I'm certain it was my podcast listeners who put my book on the New York Times bestseller list. I mean, when I launched, you know, I think I'd been doing the podcast maybe two, two and a half years when my first book came out and everyone was so excited and supportive. It was fabulous. And, you know, you know, what matters for the list is selling a lot of books in one week. And I know my podcast listeners rushed out and bought it and ran it up there. So it was great. I remain grateful to this day. Did you have a big website then or is it more just the podcast? Cause you didn't really have a big audience or a Facebook fan page then it was, it was pretty much the podcast, right?

No. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't way back then, you know, I wasn't really on Twitter. It wasn't on Facebook, at least not big like I am now. And the website has only become a big part of the business in the last three or four years. So yeah, it was really mostly the podcast. That was your sole audience was the podcast then? Well, I had a big email newsletter list by then. But yeah, mostly the podcast.

You would promote it out through there, but mostly through the podcast. Yeah. Interesting. That's amazing. So from podcast to New York Times bestseller that's pretty powerful yeah in a couple short years beyond my wildest dreams i mean you know as someone who loved words i'd always thought about writing a book but never had a really clear idea and you know i'll be the first to admit that it's not fair that it happens this way but you know mcmillan came to me and

wanted me to write a book because of my platform. So I didn't even have to do a pitch. I just sort of fell in my lap. Amazing. I worked very hard to make it work after that, but I was in the right place at the right time. I remember specifically, I believe it was Blog World. I guess not too specifically, but I remember it being an event,

a conference where you were doing doing like your book just came out or was just about to come out and you were doing a signing and that's where i met you yeah and uh i bought your book and i remember reading it and really enjoying it so i'm uh i'm sure it's still getting sales today but uh if if anyone's listening make sure to go check out that book because it was pretty powerful for me then. So you've done a lot of amazing things since then and you've kind of taken off. You've gotten all these great opportunities because really you took a lot of action early on and you were consistent. Now, how many episodes were you doing a week at that time? I do one a week.

For one quarter, I did two a week, but it was just too much to keep up. But once a week, I don't think I've missed a week ever. I mean, there have been rare occasion where I've done a rerun if something, emergency came up. But it comes out every Thursday night for seven years. And to me, I think it's important to be reliable because I know for the podcast I listen to, I look forward to them and I'm disappointed if they don't come out when they normally do. So I don't want to disappoint people.

Interesting. Now, and I know how tough it is to get it out weekly because that's what I've been doing. And I've been thinking about twice a week, but maybe I'll think, you know, I'll think again based on your reaction there. But what is different about you than everyone else who's a writer and passionate about grammar? Because there's, you're not the only one, there's thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who are passionate about writing in English and grammar. And what is different about you to be so successful in

creating this different way of being a successful entrepreneurial writer and teacher, as opposed to going to, you know, teaching at a school and making 45,000 a year type of mindset, what is different about you than everyone else? Is it the consistency? Is it your, you're just unwillingness to stick with the norm? Is it your creativity? What is it? stick with the norm? Is it your creativity? What is it? That's a really good question. I mean, part of it, I think, is that it's my full-time job to be out there promoting grammar and Grammar Girl as a way to learn about grammar. So, a lot of people have a job and maybe write about language on the side. They have a blog or maybe even a podcast or something, but I do it full time. So I'm able to be everywhere that people are. So I don't just

have a blog, but I have a podcast and an email newsletter and I'm on Twitter and I'm on Facebook and occasionally on YouTube and Instagram. And I answer every, almost every day, I answer people's questions on social media. And I do radio interviews and podcasts. I mean, it's all I do. And so, I think that's a big part of the success. You know, there are a lot of people who do it part-time, but I think just the sheer number of hours I put in is at least part of it. And then, I think just the sheer number of hours I put in is at least part of it. And then more so when I started than now, but when I started, I felt like a lot of the advice out there was really snarky and condescending. And I wanted to be different. I wanted to be friendly and helpful and unintimidating because, I mean, you talk about like back when you listened for a while,

I mean, you talk about like back when you listened for a while, you felt like you needed to improve and you wanted to put a better face out to the world with your language. And so if that's what you're looking to do, you don't appreciate advice that makes you feel stupid because you don't know something. And I don't care if people get confused about affect and effect. I'm never going to say, how could you not know that? It's so easy. I want to help you remember, and I'm going to give you a fun memory trick if I can, and I'm going to be friendly about it. And I think that's a big difference from what was out there six or seven years ago. More people are friendly now, I think, but back then, especially it was much more intimidating. I'll speak for myself that, you know, going to English class was so intimidating

because I didn't know a thing. And so I always felt stupid, right? It was just like, I didn't, and so it didn't make me want to work harder because everything verified that I was wrong and stupid. And then listening to you definitely just made it, you just, again, your voice, like the flow, the structure, you like the way you giggle sometimes, whatever it was, made me feel relaxed about learning and open-minded to remember. And that's what I think is so powerful about what you've created is your ability to connect with people and make it fun and enjoyable as opposed to opening up this huge textbook that just is frustrating because you can't remember a thing and you don't have the attention to remember. So, again, that's pretty cool. What's like two or three of the most common tips that you give for people, whether it's affect and effect, or what is the most common ways of learning,

like little tricks that you have? Yeah, so affect and effect are a big thing that people have trouble remembering because they mean something similar and they sound so similar. I have a bunch of different memory tricks, but the simplest one is, I just think of a big black raven, like a bird. And that's because

raven has the letters A-V-E-N in the spelling, and that stands for affect, verb, effect, noun, because affect with an A is usually a verb and effect with an E is usually a noun. So if you think of the raven, you can remember that little mnemonic and then sort of piece it out yourself as you're trying to fit which word into that sentence um people also want to know about who versus whom and it's funny because you know it's like nobody wants to use whom really it's kind of snooty right it's like it sounds snooty even if you use it properly it sounds snooty but everyone knows there's a time when you're supposed to use it and they don't know when it is and they feel insecure about it. So people, even though they don't like whom, they want to know when they're supposed to use it. him, H-I-M. So if you're trying to figure out who or whom should we invite to the party,

you rephrase it and say, well, we should invite him to the party. And so because it's him and not he, then you know you should use whom. And you can remember because the word him has the letter M at the end, and whom has an M at the end. So you match the Ms. Will you give me an example then? Yeah. So let's see. If you were wondering, say, who or whom ordered the pizza, you'd say he ordered the pizza. So then it's who, because it's not him. Okay.

But if you say, who or whom should we tell the story to? You say, we should tell the story to him. And so because it's him, it's whom. Whom should we tell the story to? Interesting. I like that. I call it the Himlick maneuver. Himlick.

There you go. I love it. It's so creative. And then I guess the other one people ask about a lot is how to use a semicolon. And it's again, like people are really intimidated and you like whom you will even see essays where people say we should just abandon the semicolon altogether. So it's ridiculous punctuation mark, who needs it? But you know, you use it to join. If you have two things that could be a complete sentence on their own, you use a semicolon to join them.

So I just think of it as a really powerful joiner of sentences. And those sentences should be related to each other in some way. You don't want to join random sentences. But if you have two ideas that are very strongly related to each other and they could each be a complete sentence on their own, you can put them together with a semicolon. Interesting. So why not just make them two different sentences? You could.

You completely could. Or you can put them together. It's just a different style is what you're saying, basically. Yeah, and you can mix it up. You can do a comma with and. I was hungry, comma, and we ordered pizza. Or you could say, I was hungry, semicolon, we ordered pizza. Interesting.

Or you could use a dash. There are a lot of different ways you could do it, and it just gives your sentence a different feel. It's kind of like scoring two points on a basketball court. You can either throw it off the backboard, you can slam dunk it, you can lay it in, all these different ways, but it's still two points. Yeah. That's my analogy anyways.

I like it. Interesting. Um, interesting. Now I want to talk about words and the importance of words and how they impact people's emotions, decisions, feelings, and actions.

And I want to know in your mind, what's the most powerful word in the English dictionary? Oh, wow. No one's ever asked me that before. You're getting it all in the school of greatness. I guess the most powerful word, I'm trying to decide whether it would be love or hate. And I think it's probably hate. Because if you say you hate something or you hate someone, that can have such a negative effect.

or you hate someone, that can have such a negative effect that it just has this horrible power that I think you should avoid inflicting on people. Interesting. Now, so you think that people respond more emotionally to negative words than they do to positive words? I think they do. I mean, think about when you get a review on your book or a comment on your website. It takes 20 positive comments to outweigh the one negative comment. At least for me, the one negative comment will stick with me and make me grumpy,

whereas the positive comments are a lot easier to forget, but the negative ones stick with you. Why do you think words have such a powerful impact on our emotions? I mean, they convey so much. You know, it's funny because I used to think that words didn't have such a powerful effect, you know, like. Effect or effect? Effect, it's a noun. But, you know, like when people complain about using he as a gender neutral pronoun, you know, they say, oh, it doesn't matter.

Everyone knows it could be a man or a woman. But it's this problem in English because we don't have a pronoun that you can use if you don't know whether someone's a man or a woman. So people will use they, but then other, but then you put a singular verb after it and people get all upset. So they said, well, why can't we just use he? And I think before I became so involved in language, I used to think it didn't matter so much, but now I do see how it, it just conveys a certain idea that, you know, it's just men and it sort of leaves out women. And a lot of people disagree with that, but I feel more now that words have power and it's important which ones you use. I mean, if you think about writing fiction,

even, you know, the words you choose create the whole setting. I had a guest writer, Dave Farland, who is a fiction writing instructor. And he did this whole show about how you can tell the same story but change the entire setting. You know, if you have, you know, a man go to the pub for ale, that's a completely different image than if he goes to a bar for a beer you know just just the words you choose to describe the same thing can completely change the visual image that people have of that setting interesting now how does one learn how to create a more impactful visual or emotion or feelings and inspiring them to take action with urgency as opposed to just think about something. I think a lot of it is just taking time with your writing.

You know, I know in college I rarely, I mean, I turned in my first draft of almost everything. And, you know, it's not like the best work it could be. It was adequate and I got great grades, but I could have done a better job if I had done three or four revisions. And, you know, again, I've met a lot of fiction writers over the last few years and talked to editors at my publishing house.

And, you know, some fiction writers revise their work 15 20 times you know it's it's a matter of going back and thinking about what word you want to use there and thinking about thinking about the setting you want to create and what words will create that setting and sometimes it just takes percolating in your mind before the right phrase comes to you. So giving yourself some space and time to let your writing sit and then be able to go back to it and evaluate your goals for the piece and then see how you can make it better. I know that's really hard with blogging or email that's just not possible. But if it's a really important project or something, I think it's worth giving yourself a little extra time. to tears when they read it or moves them to action with just such certainty that they want to buy

something or that they want to vote for this person or that they want to you know step up and take action on whatever whatever it may be what what is something that someone can learn or resources that people can check out to increase their i guess writing vocabulary you know in some ways i think that's more psychology than writing i i read a wonderful book a year or two ago i think it was just called yes or i think it was just called yes but it was all about the psychology of selling and it i remember it talked about just how using different words on like you know when you stay in a hotel and they want you to reuse your towel? Right.

Like, the way they put that message on the little placard in the bathroom had, like, different wording made, like, a mean, for lack of a better word, tricks that you can use to be more persuasive. That was absolutely fascinating. I'm pretty sure it was just called Yes. Interesting. I'm going to check that out. This hotel put, please reuse your towel, as opposed to saying some interesting way of like how it's saving the economy or the environment and all these other things and persuading them to reuse their towel in a cute way then maybe it would increase that and i think i think if i remember right the most powerful one was implying that

other people had done it so implying that other people you know you know yeah and that's i mean that's that's old advertising you know bandwagon that's like an old advertising. You know, bandwagon. That's like an old advertising theory. There's bandwagon. Everyone's doing it. Supplies are limited. You know, hurry now. I mean, a lot of those things still hold true. Interesting.

Well, what are some ways that people can increase their vocabulary in general without feeling like it's schoolwork? You know, I worked on a series of books called 101 Words. And it was 101 words smart people should know, 101 words high school graduates should know. And there are four of them. And it was a fun project because what I did is I paid extra attention when I was reading things or listening to podcasts. I paid extra attention when I was reading things or listening to podcasts, and I would jot down words that I heard, but I didn't know exactly what they meant. And it's amazing how many of those words you encounter every day, but just don't take note of. But when you're actively

looking to increase your vocabulary or find interesting words like I was, they pop up all the time. Like four or five times a day, I would come across a word that was a candidate. So, and then I just took the time to look them up and some of them had fascinating stories. So, like gregarious, if I remember right, that comes from the word, it comes, its root word is related to a flock of birds so it has to do with like being part of a group and you're gregarious if I remember right I could be wrong but I'm 95% sure I'm right and you know and so when you look up word origins you start finding these fascinating stories that then help you remember what the word means and and you can find interesting ways to use it maudlin is another one

i definitely remember it's it comes from mary magdalene and you know her weeping so a maudlin person is very sad and and weepy and it comes directly from the name of mary magdalene and the way she she wept you know and so and so that, you know, when you know that, then there are particularly interesting or clever ways you can find times to use those words. Like, I found a quote, a nun was saying her, I think her convent was being shut down, and she said, well, we're not going to be maudlin about it. And I was like, ah, that's the perfect use of it, because she's a nun, and it was Mary Magdalene. I bet 98% of people don't recognize what a fabulous use of that word it is. So I blogged about it. I was so excited. And, uh,

you know, I think just, you know, the best way to improve your vocabulary is just by, you know, just paying attention to it. Interesting. Now, not all of us get off on words the way you do and when someone uses it and how it's related to the meaning so how do the average minds like myself uh remember some of these things or create the time and energy when we i mean there are also really good i'm sure there are word a day podcasts and word a day email newsletters you know and and i mean i think i get a word a day email newsletter and i don't often open it but think about it would take me what 30 seconds to open that email newsletter and and uh and learn a new word so um you know it doesn't take a lot

of time but it takes no matter what it takes a little bit of time and then i guess it's also you could find words that you know i know you're really into sports so you could like particularly try to find sports words that are interesting to you and that would be a way to start now do you do a word a day no i don't why no i don't know because i i i subscribe to the one from like webster dictionary or one of those dictionaries online but again it's like it's like i have to learn it's like Webster dictionary or one of those dictionaries online. But again, it's like, it's like, I have to learn. It's like a textbook feel. Now, if I got a word a day that was from someone like you that was like, okay, here's the word and here's a quick trick on how to remember

it, then that would make sense. Well, I do my email newsletter once a week. That's all I can do. Yeah. I mean, you probably know. It's expensive to send out. In some ways, it's hard to justify. I mean, I think my email newsletter list is 80 or 85,000 people, and it costs money to send out to that list. I mean, daily would probably kill me. I get it.

I get it. Now, what about a daily Word of the Day podcast? I've thought about it, but other people do it. I get it. Now, what about a daily Word of the Day podcast? I've thought about it, but other people do it. You know, like I think other people probably do a really good job. I don't know that the world needs another one. You think they teach words better than you, huh? Probably not. Just something to think about.

Just something to think about. I have to tell you, when I was a kid, my favorite book was If I Ran the Zoo. So, you know, I always liked to be in charge. I thought you were a trailblazer, but maybe not. Maybe I'll take that back. No, I'm just kidding. Well, interesting. What's this new app that you've got out right now?

You've got some cool new app, right? Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm so excited about it. So I made an app called GrammarPop. It's for the iPad right now. I'm working on the iPhone and Android version already. People are clamoring for it. You match words with their part of speech.

And it's such an obvious idea. I mean, I couldn't believe a game doing this didn't already exist. It was really a game that I wanted to play and it didn't exist. And I guess after working on it, I can tell you why it doesn't exist because it was really hard. And there are different schools of thought about parts of speech. So I ended up having to consult a linguist to make the game fun and not confusing.

But it's really fun. You just get a sentence with each word in its own cloud and you pick the part of speech speech, and then you match it to the word, and you pop the cloud, and it makes a happy noise. Wow. It's kind of like Tetris for words. Yeah, kind of. What's really neat is that it came out and it did really well. Again, because of all the podcast listeners, it made it up to number four in education at iTunes, which is phenomenal. That's a really competitive category.

And then what we're seeing now, it's been out three or four weeks, and we're seeing an increase in academic purchases. So just last night, I heard from a teacher who's going to recommend it for the curriculum committee at her whole school. So again, it's really exciting. And it's what I'm all about, finding a fun way to help people learn parts of speech. So it's called Grammar Pop. And I developed it myself. I learned to make games using a tool called Game Salad.

So not only was it an exciting, challenging project because I learned to develop a game myself, but then it's really rewarding to hear that people are loving it and using it with their students. You turned your idea into a creation and now people are loving it just like you did with the podcast. There's no better feeling. Amazing, right? Yeah. Love it. Now, Mignon, what I really want to know is what has always been your childhood dream that you have not achieved yet? Oh, childhood dream.

You know, I did always want to work at a newspaper. You got it. I have not done that. I went and toured the Seattle Times last time I was up there and it was such a treat. Interesting. So why aren't you doing that right now? I'm so busy. I mean, I'm busy doing what I do.

I work all the time. I don't have time to go work at a newspaper. You can always freelance, right? I could. Actually, yeah. I am writing a book review for the New York Times for their holiday edition. So I was really, really excited when I got the freelance contract for the New York Times.

I felt like, I guess, a little bit of that dream had come true. There you go. It's not like being in the newsroom. Is there any other big dreams you have right now? Oh, big dreams. I want to make more games. I'm just itching to move forward

as fast as I can and make more games because it was so fun and I just want to do more of it. What's the name of the call again? It's called Grammar Pop. Grammar Pop. It's on the iPad, right? Right. And I'm hoping to have iPhone and Android out within two or three weeks.

Okay, cool. What's the price of that? It's $1.99. Nice. I'm going to go check it out right after this interview. Well, I appreciate it. I want to ask one last question before I let you get back to your words. And the question is, what is your definition of greatness? I think my definition of greatness is being happy with what you're doing and as much in control of your own destiny as you can be. Simple as that.

I love it. Where can we find you online um i'm grammar girl at facebook and twitter and you my website is quick and dirty tips.com i love it thanks so much for coming on mignon thank you lewis yeah yeah great and there you have it great I hope you enjoyed this episode with Mignon Fogarty make sure to check her out

over at Grammar Girl Podcast on iTunes or grammargirl.com I really appreciate her coming on so feel free to send a quick tweet

over to her on Twitter saying thank you. That's at grammar girl. And again, make sure to tag your pictures on Instagram of where you are listening to this specific episode in the world. And be sure to tag me at Lewis house over on Instagram so I can check it out. And maybe I'll give you a quick shout out on the next episode. Make sure also guys to head over to iTunes and please leave a review and a rating for the show. The more ratings and reviews, the better. And I'm always going to be appreciative of anything you have to say. With that guys, make sure again to surround yourself with people who inspire you, who inspire you to become better person each and every day. Do things that are uncomfortable that are going to push you to grow into the type of leader that you want to be. We've got some big episodes coming up next week, guys. And again, I'm going to be doing two episodes

Each week moving forward So with that you know what time it is It's time to make sure To step up And do something great I don't feel, I don't feel, I don't feel the love