The School of Greatness - 339 Rainn Wilson on Acting, Spirituality and Living Your Purpose

Episode Date: June 8, 2016

"If you just believe in yourself, it's a lot of ego." - Rainn Wilson If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video and more at http://lewishowescom/339

This is episode number 339 with New York Times best-selling author and actor Rainn Wilson. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone to this very special episode with the one and only Rainn Wilson. That's right.

Dwight from The Office is in the house today. And I'm extremely excited to dive deeper behind who this human being actually is. And wow, did he blow me away with everything he shared. I'm going to get into who he is and what we covered in just a moment. But to give you a quick recap of what's going on, I'm actually leaving for Argentina tomorrow to go play in the Pan American Championships with the USA men's national handball team. And I am so pumped.

I've played in the Pan Am championships two times before, once in Buenos Aires and once in Uruguay. And now we're playing back again in Argentina in Buenos Aires. So if anyone is listening from Buenos Aires, please come and support the men's handball team for the USA. And I'd love to say hi to you guys down there for all the School of Greatness fans in Buenos Aires. And you underscore Howes, and just subscribe to my newsletter at lewishowes.com to get all the updates. And you can support us by watching live online. of playing in the Olympics. And although we did not qualify this year, it's still an honor for me to wear USA across my chest and go compete at such a high level. And there'll actually be two Olympic teams there that we'll play against. So for me, it's going to be a lot of fun. And I'm always

pushing the limits on my dreams. I'm always going after them. The scarier the dream, the more I want to challenge myself to see what's possible inside me. And that means also building my business and creating the finances and the financial results and the financial gains that I need so I can support my lifestyle of pursuing handball, of pursuing different passions, of traveling the world. And a lot of people ask me, how do I build an online business? How do I build this audience, generate this traffic, generate these programs, and generate

sales? And in about a week and a half, two weeks, I'm launching a free video series called The Master Profit Plan that's going to show you exactly how I've built my online business so that I can have the flexibility and freedom that I do to pursue my dreams as well. So make sure to get on my newsletter email list. It's free. Go to lewishouse.com and subscribe because you're going to want to make sure you get access to these free videos.

I'm talking about the Master Profit Plan. If you're an entrepreneur or you want to build an online business, then make sure to sign up for my newsletter right now because I'm going to be emailing you very soon on when those come out. Now, the man of the hour. I am so pumped. We've got Rainn Wilson in the house. For those who don't know who he is, he's an actor, a writer, a comedian, and philanthropist best known for his Emmy-nominated portrayal of Dwight on NBC's The Office. He is now equally known for his millions of Twitter followers and the inspiring media company he's founded, Soul Pancake, which launched a New York Times bestselling book

of the same name and his own memoir, The Bassoon King, that came out in 2015, which is hilarious. I got myself a few copies. We'll link it up here at the end. Make sure to get yourself some copies as well. And all of the show notes of this episode are going to be back at lewishouse.com slash 339. So if you're already excited about this interview and you know it's going to be amazing, then make sure to click on the share button right now on your podcast app or wherever you're listening to this. Share it out on Twitter and share it out on Facebook, lewishouse.com slash 339. Some of the main things we talked about today, we talked about how much Rain struggled as

an actor before he actually made it on The Office. No, he wasn't an overnight success. It didn't just happen out of nowhere. It actually was a process where he almost quit many times. And he talks about the entire process as a creative actor and all the different struggles and opportunities that he did have. Then we talked about what would he be doing right now if he never got the role on The Office and how does life be? We talk about his role of spirituality and how it keeps him grounded in his career and what he thinks every other actor or entrepreneur should do to stay grounded as well. We talk about the number one big question people have about life.

Also, whether or not we should be focusing on our purpose or the thing we love to do the most. do the most. We actually went pretty deep in this conversation and I think we talked about things that Rain usually doesn't talk about, but actually really enjoyed discussing and diving into and kind of went off on a few different tangents here or there that I thought were fascinating. And it really showed me how incredibly human and wise that Rain actually is. He doesn't just play characters, but he's actually an incredibly intelligent, wise, loving human being. So I am so pumped and excited for you guys to connect, to learn, discover, and adventure on this interview with the one, the only Rain Wilson. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast.

I'm very excited about today's guest. Rainn Wilson is in the house. Good to see you, man. Nice to see you. Thanks for coming in to the Greatness studio. We're neighbors, kind of. You live in LA, so that works. There we go.

Yeah, that works. And you've been actually doing a lot of podcasts lately. I've seen you on a lot of podcasts, Tom Bilyeu's podcast. I think you were on Tim Ferriss' show, too. Tim Ferriss, yeah. So I've seen you kind of getting out there, Tom Bilyeu's podcast. I think you were on, were you on Tim Ferris' show too? Tim Ferris, yeah. So I've seen you kind of like getting out there, which I think is brilliant. Did you see me kick Tim Ferris in the face? I did not.

But I need to look at that now. Because we talked about it. He's been on here too. I kicked him in the, I talked about kicking him in the head on his podcast and then we actually did it and put it up on the, I forget, on Instagram I think. That's good, I like it. I'll check the Instagram, yeah. And you know what? I really am impressed

because you're putting yourself out there in a way with new media that a lot of, I think, actors, celebrities, people in the entertainment business aren't doing or they're more afraid of

or they don't see the value of it. So for me, I'm impressed that you're putting yourself out there and doing the podcast circuit and kind of getting your message out there. I think it's inspiring. You know, it's such a new there. I think it's inspiring.

You know, it's such a new world. I mean, who is listening to these silly things called podcasts? Even five years ago, people were like, podcast? What's that? So that's a new media as well. But yeah, with SoulPancake, a digital media company. And I'm just intrigued by new ways we have of communicating big ideas with each other. So I love being a part of that, even at my old senile age. Well, you're 50 now, right?

I'm 50, bro. It's crazy. Yeah. What are you most grateful for in your life? I'm still fit. I will wrestle you to the ground. Will you kick me in the face, too? Can you reach me?

I'm pretty tall. I'm not going to kick you in the face yet because I would pull a hammy. But I'm pretty spry for 50. Yeah, I'm surprisingly spry. I like it. Right, Tiffany? Exactly. And what are you grateful for recently in your life?

Oh, that's such a good question because that's really what it's all about. What am I super grateful for? I know this sounds hackneyed, but I'm really grateful for my family. It's really been in the last year and a half of kind of semi unemployment that I've just really allowed myself to just be in gratitude of spending time with my wife and my son and being in our home and having a home. My life is so much about my work for decades. It was all career and workaholism and trying to move that, push the ball down the field and the needle up the dial and,

you know, moving things forward and getting things done. And now like we just had Memorial day weekend and it was just nothing better than just hanging out with my wife and son and, and seeing a stupid movie and taking a hike and being with them. So I know it's corny, but that's really what I'm most grateful for. That's cool. And what was life like for you before The Office and then after The Office?

Well, I go into that a lot in my book. Which is called? The Bassoon King. The Bassoon King. The Bassoon King. We'll have it linked up and make sure everyone gets a copy of that. Yeah, that'd be nice. Of course. It's a fun read.

But one of the reasons I wrote the book is – that's a really fun part of my story to tell is that people kind of think that, oh, people on TV shows were just always blessed and just doors just opened for them. And they magically had this talent and they showed up to L.A. and they just get discovered and you just get waltzed into NBC and you're given a show. And, you know, I struggled long and hard. That's what she said. And I got out of acting school around 1990 in New York City, and I did nothing but theater for almost 10 years. In New York. In New York City. And I drove a moving van.

I was on literally like poverty, like trying to figure out like could I afford a Chinese takeout bucket of noodles for dinner. Seven bucks or something. Yeah. Or talking like $3.50. Wow. Do I dinner. Seven bucks or something. Yeah. We're talking like $3.50. Wow. Back in 1990, yeah, right? Yeah, I would get the day-old bagels because you could get six for a dollar. Yeah, exactly.

And my wife and I, I lived in an abandoned beer brewery for a year and a half. And so I had some real struggles going from that. I didn't have a decent agent. I couldn't even get auditions for like – kind of the telling thing about being an actor in New York is like, did you audition for Law & Order? Right. And I couldn't even get an audition for Law & Order. I was there the whole – for 10 years,

I never had an audition for Law & Order, which was crazy. It took me going back to L.A. and then getting some stuff going and then on a trip back to New York, audition and got into Law & Order. Finally was crazy. It took me going back to LA and then getting some stuff going, and then on a trip back to New York, auditioned and got into Law & Order. Finally got it, yeah. But this is all a very long way of saying that my life before The Office was one of incredible struggle just to survive. All the way up until The Office, because you'd done a bunch of TV and movie before then, right? The few years before The Office, I was making a little bit more money.

I would do a pilot here, a little movie part there. But that's the thing about acting is that there's all these incredible actors in L.A. that do these guest spots and appearances on shows and appearances in movies and stuff like that. And that pays really poorly. and appearances on shows and appearances in movies and stuff like that. And that pays really poorly. It's not until you're a series regular on a TV show or a movie star that you actually get the real paycheck. Yeah, exactly.

So I was doing well. I was making $90,000 a year doing acting. And I was like, hey, that's pretty good. But most people on actual TV shows are making that per week. So it's a very different paradigm. And most people on actual TV shows are making that per week. Right. So it's a very different paradigm. So it was a lot of struggle. And so this was 1990 when you graduated, is that right? Yeah, from NYU. 1990 to 2005 is when The Office began, is that right?

Yeah, 2004 when I started shooting it. So essentially 14 years of consistently grinding, not getting the opportunities, trying started shooting it. Essentially 14 years of consistently grinding, not getting the opportunities, trying to make it. Trying to make it. And almost quitting acting. Really? And that's where I really...

That's where spirituality comes into play for me because I would always get to that point of like, do I let it all go? Do I move out of LA? Do I move to Portland, Oregon with my wife and just teach at some college or start a, you know, work in a community theater or something like that? But then I would always get that one. The universe would send me little signs, just like I would get that one better little job,

you know, for like the next three, four months. Yeah, exactly. I'd get some little commercial and all of a sudden a check would move me forward or I'd get a better job. And all of a sudden I'd get on a Broadway show or I would get a, you know, a really good guest spot on a TV show. And or I'd get a better agent or I'd meet some new producer and some door would open. So I would kind of be always really open to the universe. Like, what do you have in store for me, universe? What's happening next?

And as long as doors were opening and there was movement forward, I was like, I just got to stick through this. And 14 years later, I was able to get in the office. That's crazy. I talked to a guy. What's his name? Max Greenfield. Do you know him?

Yeah, yeah. He's awesome. I would work out with him at the CrossFit gym down the street a few years ago. And he was like, you know, for 10 years, I didn't get anything. And I thought about quitting over and over. And it's a similar story. I'd get a little thing here and there, and I almost quit. And then I booked a new girl, and now life has changed.

But you see, but there's a difference between the universe opening doors for you and delusion because you'll meet a lot of actors in LA that are like kind of sunbaked and their brains are a little bit fried and they've been in the world of like ego and self and self-promotion for way too long. staying with it and you just want to say to them, man, it's time to move back to Omaha and teach community college or work in an insurance office or just find something else or go be of service somewhere in the world because it's not happening. So you have to – it's an interesting line between is the universe leading me forward and our doors opening or am I in self-delusion and self-will so much that it's never going to happen, but I'm deluded myself into thinking. How do you know the difference though?

Because it took you 14 years, but I guess you were making enough to get by after whatever. I always made a living. Yeah. And like I said, I always just when I would think about quitting, some new little thing would happen to move me further down the path. And I was like, well, as long as I'm going further down the path, it's like the Amway pyramid, you know, well, as long as I'm going further down the path, uh, it's like the Amway pyramid,

you know, Amway where you have to sell like pencils or moisturizers and like that. And you get to, and then people under you sell like, and my wife calls it the, uh, the Amway pyramid working in LA. Yeah.

What do you think you would have done if you would have quit, say, you know, whatever, a couple of years before the office, if you had to move somewhere else, where would you have moved and what would you be doing? Well, my wife and I are from the Northwest. I'm from Seattle.

She's from Portland. We have a little cabin up near Bend, Oregon. I love Bend. It's beautiful. Beautiful, right? Can you edit this from the podcast? I don't want people moving to Bend. We can.

Yeah, yeah. I know. I have some entrepreneur friends who've moved there and they're like, they're never moving It's heaven. Yeah. So it's some vague idea of living in the Pacific Northwest and doing small theater and teaching, you know, some combination of that. I think that, you know, I grew up in Seattle and kind of by happenstance, my family moved to suburban Chicago and this high school had a really amazing theater department. And that's when I started acting.

I was 17. I kind of started a little late. But my plan was always go to the University of Washington in Seattle and stick around Seattle like most of my Seattle high school friends are. And, you know, teach high school English or something like that. So that's kind of my path was kind of in my mind kind of set. And then all of a sudden this acting thing happened. What was the dream for you growing up? Was it to, if you had like any dream, was it to be an actor or was it to teach? You know, I, I, I knew I liked acting. I never in a million years thought that I would

make a career at it. I never knew anyone who was an artist who actually got paid for making art. My dad was an artist and he wrote a bunch of really corny, bizarre science fiction and fantasy books while I was growing up. One of them got published and I think he got a check for like $500 for it. And I knew we had Bohemian Seattle friends growing up. I was a member. My family were Baha'is, members of the Baha'i faith. And so we knew kind of like kind of hippie-ish Bohemian Seattleite folks who were writing poetry or painting things. And my dad's also a painter. But no one ever got paid for it.

So that's – this is – I write about this in my book. And that's – this is – I write about this in my book, but one of the main things that happened to me is when I moved to Chicago, I started taking acting and I started being good at it. And I started getting cast in lead roles in the plays. And the main reason that I got involved was girls all of a sudden liked me. So I was this totally dorky kid in Seattle. I was on the chess team and model United Nations and marching band playing the xylophone and the bassoon, hence the bassoon king. And then I started doing the acting and girls started liking me. And then all of a sudden, this whole new vistas opened up with the nerdy but but extremely cute theater girls. Um, and so I went to my, uh,

drama teacher and I, I never voiced this desire, this hope, this dream before to anyone in my life. But I went to my drama teacher, uh, Suzanne Adams, who I still keep in touch with.

And, and I said on a break, I was like, Mrs. Adams, do you think that maybe someday i could potentially somehow be an actor maybe what year is this for you this is like 83 i graduated in 84 okay and um and she was like oh yes yes you must you yes you're very talented and you should go to school and you should study

and travel the world and fall in love and you should read lots of books and go on adventures and have a great, rich, deep life. But yes, I think you absolutely could. And that was so inspiring to me. That fed my soul and my heart and helped move me forward for years afterward. Years afterward, I would remember what she said because it was so foreign to me, the idea of getting paid to pretend to be people and get paid for that. I mean, I'd seen plays in Chicago. I knew that people were getting paid probably hundreds of dollars a week to pretend to be these characters. But that was always my thing was I never thought – I never sought out to be famous.

I never sought out to be a celebrity or a TV star or anything like that I I just wanted to be a working actor and I thought I was going to be a theater working actor so that would what would my dream have been to be in an ensemble of actors doing great works of theater at a you know a regional theater somewhere wow amazing gosh it's interesting how you you know, I had great coaches and mentors growing up in sports. That was kind of my thing. And having one or two coaches be like, yeah, I believe you can achieve, you can be an All-American, you get a college scholarship, you can play a professional. It was like those moments that we have growing up that really kind of shape our mindset. Yeah. It's crazy to think about. And then when I got out to LA, that just

triggered my mind. It is, it is about mentorship and how important, um, if you are a teacher or a coach, it's important to be a mentor. Yeah. And it's also important to look for those mentors. Um, when I got out to LA, I signed with this manager, Mark Shulman, who was a really great manager. And, um, he, we sat down for our kind of first meeting And he's like, so what do you see yourself doing? And I think the Drew Carey show was on at the time. I was like, well, I could be one of those goofy guys on the Drew Carey show, know, I see it completely different for you. And he was like, I see you starring in a TV show. I see you producing. I see you making content. Wow. I see you writing, directing, whatever you want to do with your name above the title.

And really, the sky's the limit with your talent. And I didn't see that in myself. But he saw it. And that was also very helpful. So sometimes you need someone outside of yourself to kind of recognize the talent that's in you and say, hey, you're thinking too small. You need to think better. But then again, what's the question, Lewis? Because if you think that you have all this capacity and maybe you don't quite have that capacity,

then you're in self delusion. Right. So what is that? I can create anything I want. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be the next Lewis house, you know,

and you may not have that capacity. That may not be your path. Right. You may not be your skillset or your talent either. It may not be your skillset. Yeah, exactly. It's finding that,

it's finding that skillset. And that's, and that's where, that's where, like I said before, I think spirituality comes into play because it's in a process of prayer and meditation and connection and understanding that this physical life that we're on is just part of our spiritual journey, going on a spiritual journey. If you look at your life more as a spiritual journey, you will find those doors opening and find what your place is. I believe more than we live in a culture that values kind of self-will over all things. Drive, determination, can-do spirit, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and self-will. And that's all important. There are important qualities in that.

Determination is important. Perseverance. Perseverance. Super important. Belief. Yeah. Belief in yourself. Love of yourself that's necessary to propel that.

But it can also lead people astray. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, so tell me more about your faith, because this is like the first time I heard about this earlier when I was researching. What's it called and what does it actually mean? Well, so I'm a member of the Baha'i faith. That's B-A-H-A-I.

And my family, I grew up in a Baha'i family. Baha'i faith spread really rapidly in the late 60s and early 70s through the U.S. and all over the world when everyone was on a spiritual journey. The Beatles were visiting the Maharishi and Cat Stevens became a Muslim and Shirley MacLaine was communing with spirits from another dimension. People were just very open to spiritual ideas at the time, just breaking away from the kind of fundamentalist. What they've always been told. Yeah, exactly. In their family life or whatever and learning more about other religions and faiths. Yeah, and they were very open to transcendental meditation or whatever it is.

So a lot of people found the Baha'i faith at that time and became Baha'is, and that's what my parents did as well. I grew up in it. did as well. I grew up in it. I left it for a long time when I part of my story in The Bassoon King is leaving my faith and just wanting to be an artist in New York City.

What's the faith kind of represent? Is it kind of like takes all faith? Is that what I understood? People say that. I think that it's really hard to sum up in a short podcast version. I can imagine. In a sentence.

You could do a whole podcast just on what it is. But basically, Baha'is believe that there is only one God. And this all-seeing, all-loving, unknowable essence runs through everything. knowable essence runs through everything. This dimension, many other dimensions, places, times, beyond time, beyond the laws of physics, let's say. And the way that this all-loving creative force in the universe educates humanity spiritually is by sending down divine teachers every couple hundred, every couple thousand years. So these divine teachers we all

have known and heard of like zoroaster and krishna and the buddha and moses abraham jesus muhammad and these um talking about the metaphor moving the ball down the field they're like my language now there we go i need some sports analog'm trying to use some sports analogies. I could use some tech analogies too. Here we go like this. I'm going to bust this one out. It's like getting a new iPhone every year or two. There you go.

Because you've got the new technology coming out. You need to do the updates every once in a while. Well, humanity is the same way. We need to update ourselves spiritually, just like iPhone updates. And these divine teachers come down and they help advance mankind and move them forward with compassion and love and spiritual virtues and the idea of service and detachment from the material world, from outcomes, from the vanities of self and ego. Exactly. world, from outcomes, from the vanities of self and ego. And so Baha'is are followers of a man named Baha'u'llah, and that name means the glory of God in Arabic.

And Baha'u'llah lived in Iran in the mid-1800s. And Baha'is believe that he's the newest of this line of teachers. Prophets and teachers, yeah. Yeah. And he's the newest divine teacher or spokesperson for God, bringing God's word to humanity in this day and age. And his writings are hundreds of books and letters, and they're incredibly profound. Justice to the importance of a universal language, the elimination of racial prejudice, thinking of ourselves as all one human species inhabiting this planet, the equality of men and women, the essential harmony of science and religion. Some really beautiful progressive ideas, especially coming from Iran in the 1850s and 60s when you can imagine how repressive it is now, even more repressive and backwards then. So why did you leave and then come back?

And how long were you kind of like away from the practice? When I moved to New York City, basically, long story short, I didn't want any morality in my life. You didn't want any morality? I didn't want any morality in my life. You didn't want any morality. I didn't want morale. I didn't want to, the Baha'i faith has, like all religious faiths, it has some moral laws. Some of which are very, very challenging in the modern world. So like premarital sex. Right.

So that was one that I really struggled with. And I was having sex with my girlfriend and feeling really guilty about it. Yeah. Even though in the bi-faith, there's not really a concept of sin and hell and damnation or anything like that. It's like forbidden. It's like a law. It's like a rule. It's a rule.

However, I would say forbidden is too strong a word. Gotcha. However, I would say forbidden is a too strong a word. It's a rule that helps one grow spiritually and helps one's soul, not our body, but helps our soul become more whole and spiritual and enriched and evolve. That's the idea behind the laws. That's the idea behind the laws. Drugs and alcohol are something that Baha'is refrain from because Baha'is believe that drugs and alcohol get in the way of, again, evolving the soul or spiritualizing the soul. So I moved to New York City to be an actor, and I was 20 years old. And I had a beautiful girlfriend, and I was just like, you know, there were a lot of other reasons, too. I wanted to rebel against my parents. I was annoyed with the Baha'i community. A lot of really mostly immature reasons, but I just wanted to be an actor and live the bohemian lifestyle in New York. So

I wanted to get hooked up and have fun and be in Greenwich Village and do plays. And then it was, uh, it was a really interesting thing that happened where uh i met my now wife we were together at the time um we've been together for a long time and she's gorgeous and wonderful holiday reinhorn she's fantastic and i was starting to work as an actor so really all my dreams were coming true but yet i was really dissatisfied in, in my soul, in my heart. I, it's kind of the thing where you wake up at three in the morning, you're like, what am I doing?

What's my life about? And, uh, I got really depressed and I, and I thought, well, maybe I've just discarded this whole religion thing too much. Maybe I, you know, I jettisoned the idea of God and, um, and spirituality completely to dive into my art and my craft, which in a lot of ways I'm, I'm grateful for, you know, I learned a lot doing that, but I decided to kind of go on a spiritual journey at that time. And so you kind of entered back into it or just reevaluated and started, I started reading the holy books of the world. All the books.

I won't say all of them, but I read the major ones in the canon. I read the Bible and the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita and the writings of the Buddha, the Amapada. I read a lot of other books about religion and faith and ideas. Because I really – there's one – when we founded Soul Pancake, we founded it on this – on pursuing life's big questions. That was how it started as a website and now it's a media company and a YouTube channel. But it was about exploring life's big questions. And really, the number one life's big question – and I know this isn't a spirituality webcast per se. But the – I'm sorry to go here, but I'm going to go here.

This is great. The number one big question is, is there a God or not? Because as Thomas Merton says, who's one of my favorite writers of all time, Roman Catholic writer, he says, either everything is all spiritual or not spiritual at all. So there either is a creative life force that created us, has a purpose for us, or we're all a random assemblage of molecules bumping together. And for some reason, evolutionarily, you and I developed these brains and we have these little headsets on. And here we are having this conversation. And this is all just random chants. And it doesn't have any meaning whatsoever. And whatever meaning happens is because we put our

meaning onto it, and then we're dead. And boom, lights out. And that's the end of the show. So it's either that, or there's an all loving creator. And this physical realm is just a way stop. You know, we were in the womb for a while and then we're in our physical bodies in the world for a while and then our souls move on to whatever is the next phase and then the next phase and the next phase of essentially i suppose maybe meeting this creator um and so that if that's what you believe that puts your life in a very different context. Yes. Not to say that atheists or agnostics and people of faith can't and shouldn't work together and that there's so much that we share. We want to make the world a better place.

We we want to bring joy and love and inspiration to people's lives for the most part. Right. And I think that the whole debate of I never want to get into a debate with an atheist. You know, it's just so pointless. Like, it's not going to convince anybody of anything. But I think we have to find a commonality and a way to move together. But I do think that everyone has to go on that journey of deciding whether or not there is a creator. Yeah. What they believe in.

Yeah. What they believe in. Interesting. Because it's going to inform your life choices. I just find it's going to be hard to, I don't know, if you don't believe in anything, you're going to feel very unfulfilled, I think, throughout. You're going to have a lot of those moments of unfulfillment. And maybe that's what you were feeling when you were kind of even not just connected to

spirituality. It's like, what's the purpose? What's the meaning? What's the reason? Well, what I believed in was self, and that's not enough. Yeah, it's tough. If you just believe in yourself, it's a lot of ego. And that's what I wanted.

I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be successful. I wanted to make money. I wanted people to like me and see me in plays. I wanted to play great roles and be seen and remembered for it. And that's just a lot of self, self, self, self, self. And then it's not about anybody else. And I think it's hollow.

And I think for me what it did is four or five years into my career, it just kind of rang hollow. It's like, here I am. I'm doing the plays. It's draining as well, right? It's like exhausting probably. Yeah, just focusing on yourself all the time and self-promotion and trying to get a better agent and trying to get a better job. And it's pretty exhausting. So what I try to do now, what I try to do and fail a lot

because I still have a lot of ego tied up in all of this. What, you mean you're a human being? You're not perfect yet? I'm not. I haven't achieved bodhisattva yet. I'm not a saint. I try to look at things more as service because you started the conversation with gratitude, and I think gratitude is always the best place to start with anything. people who are lost is, you know, what can you do to be of service to someone else? And you told me out in the lobby when we were before, uh, doing this podcast that you really started this as a

service to have a great conversations and to help people. And, and I feel that, and I felt that in listening to your podcast, this was not just you self-promoting, you're really trying to help people with ideas. And, uh, and I appreciate that. And that's been – it's a tricky thing for an actor because, oh, I want to act. I want to be in front of the camera and play great roles and get this attention at me. But I really do want to be a storyteller that makes a difference in the world. And even doing The Office, as corny as it is – no, it's not corny. As silly as The Office was, my favorite stories of when someone would say, like, my sister was dying of cancer. And we would sit in the hospital room and watch episode after episode of The Office.

And we would just laugh together. And we'd laugh until we cried. And, and the fact that we were able through that show to bring laughter to people and bring joy to people was very fulfilling. It's valuable. Yeah. It's really important. It's necessary. I mean, I feel in a lot of ways I have a similar experiences from my sports background. You know, I wanted to achieve certain things as an athlete. I wanted to be a professional athlete for my ego and for accomplishment and acknowledgement for people to like me. And I achieved all these big dreams that I had. And I remember feeling very like empty inside and be like, after I'd achieve everything, I'd be like the angriest person alive. I was like, why am I so angry and like resentful and

mad now that I just achieved what I wanted for years. And I realized it's because it was more to prove people wrong and to like make myself look good as opposed to do it out of like giving and service like we're talking about now. And once I started to shift that and say, how can I still achieve everything I want but be more of an inspiration to show people what's possible for their life or do it from a place of like I'm going to give my best to show people that they can give their best, whatever it may be. It just became much more fulfilling when I would achieve certain things. And it's still on that path. You know, again, being a podcast host or whatever, you know, having a book, it's just a lot of promotion to get the word out.

And I'm sure you get the same thing with SoulPancake. You got to promote. But I feel like when we come from a place of love and service and giving and gratitude, it spreads a lot easier. It's not as hard and challenging. So it's more fulfilling. I think people can sniff self-promotion too in a way that it's, you know, when you meet someone and you get that little squeezy feeling and you're just like,

what's up with this person? Like we're very good at reading just people's voices. Yeah, exactly. We all have very finely tuned BS meters. So some people try and fake it. I hear you. I hear him. Who was the most influential person in your life growing up? I would say that my dad was, for all his failings as a father, which I won't get into here and now, he might be hearing this podcast, but will say that i one thing i really appreciated

about him was we we had a house of creativity yeah he was a painter he would write stories he would write poems he would doodle he was always creating and he wanted to be an artist he really was never quite successful in his dreams of being a painter and a writer but he always encouraged that and inspired that so we had a house that he was very unhappily married to my stepmom so there was a lot of sadness in our house and a lot of awkward silences and tension and fights and stuff like that. And so that all sucked and has scarred me profoundly. But the idea that you could take all that and transform it into art. And so we were just always painting, drawing, singing, having other artists over, telling stories, reading stories.

He always had this rule that no matter how broke we were, we were pretty poor growing up. We were very poor growing up. I used to get my clothes from the Salvation Army kind of poor. But he would say, however many books you want, I will buy you whatever books you want.

So I would go. I'd be like, I'd take them up on it. We'd go to the university bookstore in Seattle, and I'd have a stack of 40 or 50 books. He'd be like, you want all those books? I'd be like, yeah. take them up on it. We'd go to the university bookstore in Seattle, and I'd have a stack of 40, 50 books. He'd be like, you want all those books? I'd be like, yeah. And he's like, are you going to read them all? I'm like, yep. He would buy them all without saying anything.

Did you read them all? I did. Wow. Yeah. Look at you. Yeah. That's good. I did.

A lot of them were pretty corny science fiction and fantasy kind of Conan the Barbarian books and stuff like that. Whatever gets you going, right? It does. And it does. I love science fiction and fantasy for that reason. It really does spark the imagination. That's amazing.

What did you think was the biggest lesson he taught you then? Was it to be creative or the biggest thing you learned from him? I think he taught me the magic of being an artist. And I think there's a spiritual act in being an artist.

I think of, again, I'm sorry to go there. Sorry. It's all good. People are like, I picture all the comments on your blog like, oh, here's God crap. No, man. When you think of God the creator, you think of like a blank sheet of paper and there's nothing there. And then you create something on that.

that you you write a beautiful poem or you create a beautiful picture or painting or you write a song on it or lyrics or whatever it is that we're emulating the act of the creator um in the baha'i faith they call god the fashioner and we're emulating the fashioner by fashioning something and it's our it's our kind of a highest spiritual act to do that, especially if we can do that for service to other people. Um, so that would be, I think the lesson that I got from him the most. Why do you think you were created? Um, that's a great question. I would put that like number two in, in the list. I don't know. I'm still, I'm still finding that out. I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm, I'm really not know. I'm still, I'm still finding that out. I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm, I'm really not sure. I don't, I don't have that answer. Um, there've

been a few things that I have been lucky to be a part of. Um, uh, my family again, that I'm super grateful for, uh, soul pancake, this, you know, company that seeks to uplift and inspire, uh, in digital media and content. Which is soulpancake.com and on YouTube as well. Yeah, a YouTube channel. And we're on all different social media platforms. And we do stuff for TV as well and stuff with brands. And then my wife and I do this work in Haiti.

And then I have acting and producing myself. So I have all these different irons in the fire. And sometimes I feel a little scattered. And I really, I would love to know, I'd love to receive some sign on where to kind of focus my energy. And I'm not exactly sure. Really? What my purpose is. But I will, it's to, I'll tell you my greatest love for me and all of that stuff that I have going on.

My greatest love is playing a character. So I get a script. I love acting. I love getting a script whether it's a play or whether it's a film or a TV show. And your character is named Greg and you look up Greg and Greg is a schlubby idiot or whatever Greg is described as or whatever. And you read through the Greg thing. And then you say, how do I play Greg? How does Greg walk?

How does he sit? What is his worldview? How does he see the world? What's the world looking at the world through Greg's eyes? What trauma has he been through? Is he sad? What's going on inside of him? How does he speak?

Is he articulate? What's going on inside of him? How does he speak? Is he articulate or not? Where does the source of his comedy come from? And taking rain and putting rain into Greg and Greg's shoes is my favorite thing in the world to do. But is that my purpose? I don't know. I think that's what I'll always love the most. I'll always love that the most. But I also, I love that I have these other avenues to help people and inspire people and kind of turn people on to having bigger conversations. That's the whole purpose when SoulPancake, when we started was, let's talk about life's big questions. What does it mean to be a human being? I love that discussion more than anything else. And that's far greater and more important than me playing the role of Greg. Yeah. Should we be pursuing and following what

we love the most and making that our purpose? Or should we be just trying to figure out our purpose and then making that something we love to do? Oh, man. You're good. You're good. That's a good... Because you just said acting's your biggest love. I think you follow what turns you on the most. You have to really make sure that it's not for ego and not for self-promotion. Not to get famous or to get rich. Yeah.

It's like you can love acting, but then if you pursue acting for all the wrong reasons, you can really end up in a morass. Yeah. But you want to – or a musician or fill in the dots or an entrepreneur or a businessman because you want to have a house in Montauk or something like that. That's a very different reason than you have great business ideas. You want to employ people and you want to be part of a dynamic – Solve a problem, right? Yeah, solve a problem and be part of an evolving, dynamic, ever-changing world and helping humanity move forward as a species, the 7, 6, 7 billion of us. I think you follow what turns you on, but then you have to be very sensitized to that journey and doors will open and you have

to be really like you know you hear that story all the time like i want to be a lawyer i want i want to go to law school or whatever and then i was going to law school and um dimitri martin tells that story he's a stand-up comic he's hysterical stand-up comic and he was in nyu law school and then hitting the side he did comedy gigs and he would go do open mics and he just fell in love with it and just again little doors started opening and he dropped out of law school to go be a stand-up comic and he's one of the most successful ones in the united states he just directed his first film and uh he's just a great guy and you have to listen to that that little voice and those little proddings. It's almost letting go of attachment, too, of what you kind of set out in your mind of like, I'm going to be a lawyer.

I already said it, so I'm going to go do it. I'm going to finish it. I'm going to do this thing. So you've got to kind of be aware and open to other things, right? It's letting go of the result of that. Yeah. So I'm going to – okay, I love being a lawyer. I'm going to go study the law. And then you've got to be open to whatever happens along the way.

You take a trip to another country and you fall in love with that country or you meet a woman in that country and fall in love. And then all of a sudden you're working for a nonprofit in that country with the woman that you love and using your legal skills in a different way. legal skills in a different way and you've got to be open to what the universe gives you because i i do believe that um the universe there there is that energy in the universe i know i know when i'm in sync with the energy of the universe i feel right yeah i know that sounds very hippy dippy but um you're in flow i i i do believe that that exists. What is missing from your life? You, Lewis. I appreciate it.

Well, you have me now. Oh. Freaking embrace afterwards. 20 or 30 minutes. Good. What's missing from my life? God, you know, honestly, so nothing is missing from my life. And I really mean that i have health i have enough money i have a beautiful family great looks i have i look amazing uh i have purpose i have faith good friends and uh so in in that context nothing is missing from my life. I'll take the question a little bit sideways.

Kind of where my ego struggle is, is I'm a weird-looking 50-year-old dude who's really known for playing Dwight. And I'm not given many opportunities. I'm not given too many opportunities to play other roles. Really? And that's a struggle for me. I mean, I get offered roles. I just did an indie film. I'm doing another one this summer and, you know, I'm developing some TV shows for me

to act in that are really cool. And I get offered stuff that I turn down, but I'm not getting the opportunities that I don't want to paint this picture like, oh, I'm struggling actor, unemployed actor. It's not that I'm not getting the opportunities I feel that I want and deserve to move forward in my career. And so I'm always, I'm struggling with that. And that, and then I'm wondering like, oh, is that my ego? And how much of that is my ego? And do I just want the status? Do I just want to be in the trades of like, oh, Rainn Wilson got this new great gig and, oh, he's doing so good. Because it was hard.

Like I had a shot. I had a shot for a while there at movie stardom. You know, when The Office was really hot, there was a bunch of movies I did in a row. I did Sahara and Juno and My Super Ex-Girlfriend and The Last Mimsy. And then I starred in this movie, The Rocker, that completely bombed. And that was devastating.

It was a studio comedy. And then, that no one saw, I can tell by the blank look on your face, you never heard of it. I saw the image of you in your underwear. Okay, and that was enough to keep you out of the theater. I never saw this before. And then after that, I did this movie Super that James Gunn directed who did Guardians of the Galaxy.

And it was a really great indie film that people had kind of high hopes for, but no one went and saw it again. So I had all these – like everything that I went in the feature film world just bombed just shit the bed and it was hard man I mean it because we're at the top of the world for the office yeah it's like every time you step on screen people laugh to now oh yeah and they tried to figure out

how I could work in movies Steve Carell obviously took off in movies crushing insane and good for him and ed helms too hangover and other films that he's done fantastic and john krasinski doing really super well and so my twin yeah you're your twin john krasinski and i uh uh and i'm happy for all of them they're all such good kind uh gentle smart men and they deserve all the success in the world. But that was hard to see that movie stuff crash and burn.

And so what's missing in my life? I have that struggle of I'm not getting movie offers, and I didn't have that career that I wanted to have in film. But then is that my ego? Should I just let that go? I'm doing this other great, awesome stuff. Maybe I need to just let that go, but I want it still. So there's kind of like it's that icky, gooey thing of like – Yeah.

So I don't know. It's somewhere in there. If you have any advice, let me know. Yeah. What's that process like when you're at – Again, when The Office was like the top show on TV for every season essentially, right? Every year? It was a top comedy for many years.

It was hilarious, right? What was that like? Well, first off, I'm curious. I want to go back into this. I want to take a step back. I want to know how you actually landed the role and if you knew it was going to be as big of a deal when you landed it or if you're just like oh it's just another tv thing that i'm gonna get and cool i had um tested against will arnett for arrested development and he beat me out son of a bitch um and then right after that i was supposed to do this other tv thing that fell apart. And then I auditioned for The Office.

And I really thought The Office was going to be like Arrested Development. I thought it was going to be this really smart, edgy comedy that would be on for maybe a couple of seasons if we were lucky or 20 episodes or something. And then people would watch it on DVD. That's what they used to do back then is watch it on DVD. And that's what and that's what we all thought. And we, we, so I went, I was literally the very first person to audition for the U S office. Um, I knew the casting director well, and she liked my work and, and brought me in and it was a long arduous casting process, but yeah, we, um, I had seen the BBC office, which was phenomenal. And I knew we had the chance to make something really great. I didn't understand how we were going to do that on NBC.

Right. Because if you looked at the comedies at the time when we were on, it was friends. It was very handsome and good-looking people, brightly lit, colorful sets with a laugh track and a studio audience. And everyone was just likable and huggable. And then you've got this office with all these really despicable people you know and who and flawed people and kind of odd-looking actors under in bad lighting with bad haircuts and polyester suits and i was like how was that going to work on nbc and we were almost canceled like four or five six times i. I mean, we barely hung on. I mean, people have no idea.

We did the pilot. It was the lowest testing pilot since the Seinfeld pilot, which was also a super low testing pilot. That's good news then, right? If it's compared to Seinfeld pilot. Tell that to the studio network executives, please. And then we were not going to get picked up, but then the head of NBC said, well, I'll pick up five more episodes.

We did five more. And then the next season, we weren't going to get picked up. And then he's like, well, we'll do five more. And then after that, we'll do three more. And then we'll do two more. And we kept getting these little orders. And then all of a sudden, we took off. And then all of a sudden, we took off.

And I think that one of the main reasons was the advent of the video iPod. So this was 2005. The video iPod was just being launched. And they were given as basically Christmas gifts to rich kids. Right. And they would, for some reason, they decided to preload them with episodes of The Office. No way. So all these rich kids got episodes of The Office on their video iPods. Wow.

And they started watching it. And then all of a sudden, we were, on our ratings, we were like 47th. But on the iTunes list of top TV shows, we were number, it would be Office 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Top downloaded shows. And they started – all of a sudden, network executives who hadn't paid any attention to that stuff were kind of going like, wow, something's going on here. Young people are paying money to watch this show and to own it and watch it over and over again. And that's what kind of kept us on the air. So thanks to Steve Jobs, huh?

Yeah. Otherwise, you may not be in the position you're at without that. That's crazy to think about that. Yeah. That's like some Freakonomics type of stuff right there, right? It is. It's like, oh, the iPad made a statement. It just happened right at that time.

Wow. Yeah. And we would definitely have been canceled if we weren't on those video iPods. That's crazy to think about. Now, I had Jenna Ushkowitz on, who was an original cast member of Glee. I don't know if you know of Glee. Okay. But it's a show that I loved.

Yep. That was, I think, six seasons on. Big show for a while. Fox, I believe. And she was making good money and this big star for however many years it was on Glee. And she was like, you know, it's been a year and a half, two years. And it's like it's really challenging to even get in the door for places because they position me as a specific role now. Yep.

And it's challenging to get these other roles that I really want to grow into. Yeah. And you're finding that as well? Or you feel like people are just positioning you as this character that you played, Dwight and then that's all they see you as or what is what is the challenge yeah i think well the challenge is a i'm weird looking okay i think you're great looking i think i'm super handsome but for tv i'm a little offbeat and um uh my wife is actually attracted to me which is crazy but um also I'm older now, I'm 50 years old. So that kind of puts me in a different territory. It's, it's, uh,

it's very different than being 35. And, um, so that limits me. And then I'm very, very well known for a very specific role. Um, uh, and so those are all three strikes i think um and i'm also known for comedy so um it's hard for people to take i'm trying to get into rooms where like can i just you don't have to cast me can i just audition and show that i can play roles other than creepy weirdo paper salesman um that i have a larger range than that because i was doing theater yeah for 12 years before i did any tv or film playing all kinds of roles shakespeare and eugene o'neill and checkoff and um and in comedy and drama and because that's what you do when you're a theater actor which is i love being a theater actor because you get to do all that

kind of stuff. But it's a little bit more segmented in TV and film. I mean, your role in The Office was probably the most challenging to have, I would think. I don't think any other actor could have done – and the cast could have done the role that you did. I mean, it probably took all the years of theater. Carell could have done it. Probably better than me. Really?

Yeah. He's pretty smart. He's pretty smart he's he's pretty he's pretty great one of them i still think it's a challenging role you had that i think the years of theater probably helped you kind of craft that and be able to step into that wouldn't you say yeah you know i did um uh was part of the work that i did for a long time in theater was clowning work where we kind of create these uh not ringling Brothers clowning, but kind of more like I would say like what, you know, like Borat, you know, something like what he does, you know, where he creates these kind of outlandish comedic characters that are really, you could

almost meet them in the street. They're very real and very outlandish at the same time. And so I think a lot of that clowning work did help with Dwight. Who's the actor or actress who you are inspired by the most right now? Who do you think is doing the greatest work or just like they blow you away? Michael Shannon. So do you know his work? I mean, tell me the movie or the role.

Well, he was in the Superman Returns. He was the villain Zog. Is that his name? So he was that. And then he was just in this movie called Midnight Special. I've seen him in the theater in a couple of things. And he was on Boardwalk Empire, and he played the really corrupt, tortured FBI agent. Okay.

And he's insanely good. again theater background it comes from the steppenwolf theater in chicago and boy he can do anything he's he's like he he blows me away i don't know how he does what he does uh but uh i aspire to be like one quarter of the actor of Michael Shannon. What do you think are the qualities that great actors have that the rest of us could apply to our daily lives that would help us improve intimacy, connection,

our business, our careers, anything? You know, that's a really tough question to answer because here's the thing. Some of these really great actors are really terrible at interpersonal communication and being a human being and connecting or being intimate. intimate um and at the same time they have an incredible ability to uh observe human behavior and uh and turn it on and take it in and um and you know and use that and use that in their craft as of acting like they're incredibly observant um but they're almost like aliens observing humanity and yeah some of the

some of the really great actors that you'll meet like will be will be some of the most awkward conversations you'll ever have but they they know human nature inside and out it's really it's interesting so i don't know if there's great lessons to be learned from that. Yeah. I wish I had a better answer for you there. No worries. No worries. I want to ask a few more questions.

I know we're almost at the end of time, but I'm loving this conversation, so I appreciate all the sharing. Before I ask the final few questions, what can we take action on today? You got soulpancake.com where you create – is it daily content you create there or is it – We do it about three times a week on our YouTube channel. Yeah. But yeah, that's one thing you could take action on. So make sure to go follow Soul Pancake and go there and subscribe. Check it out to the YouTube channel.

You got over a million and a half followers there. Yeah, we have almost two million subscribers. It's amazing. We're doing all kinds of work in the media landscape. But we did Kid President. Yeah. I met him. You met Kid President.

I spoke on stage at a conference with him and his uncle. Brad. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Very nice guy. That's cool. And we did My Last Days, The Science of Happiness, a lot of really successful shows and we've done some stuff in television as well and um we you know again we strive to do inspiring content we've

got a really exciting um thing coming out this summer called new age creators where we found these essentially teenage like do you know casey neistat the i've had him off yeah yeah yeah amazing guy smart so these are like teenage casey neistat making their own video content they're video artists um younger than millennials we call them generation z and they're from all over the world with someone from portugal spain england new zealand uh germany and these they call themselves new age creators they kind of came together as this coalition and we gave them the keys to our youtube channel this summer and these new age creators are going to be putting out new content uh every every week a couple pieces every week and they're beautiful they're personal they're video diaries they're collage they're stories um they use music and

and visual arts um effort. These are kids who have just grown up with social media and iPhones and, and, and cameras and, and music and editing software. And they just, it's in their genes and they just, as they live, they create, and we're really excited about making this content for, um, for our millennial audience. We call them, This content for our millennial audience, we call them, you know, what is it? Positive millennials, you know, upbeat millennials and people and altruistic Gen Zers. So altruistic teenagers that really want to change the world. And this is content for them.

And we're really excited about that. That's cool. And you also got your book, The Bassoon King, which you'll learn more about everything in your life and a lot of personal stuff. More that we talked about today in depth, so make sure to pick that up. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, anywhere books are sold. I'm assuming they're everywhere. It's everywhere. I think so. Yeah, pretty

much everywhere. Everywhere except your bookshelf, dude. Well, we'll get it. Okay. We'll get it now. But you got Arnold Schwarzenegger up there. Exactly, yeah. We'll have that up here soon. I'll get a. Okay. We'll get it now. But you got Arnold Schwarzenegger up there. Exactly, yeah. You got another one. We'll have that up here soon. I'll get a few copies and put them up there and give them away. Please.

So we'll have that. And then a couple of final questions. If you could write your own script, let's say it's a long script, but let's say you're going to paraphrase it down to a paragraph or two, of the rest of your life, the story you'd want to write for yourself, of everything you'd want to create, what are you going to create moving forward? If you could write down any story, what would happen for you? Oh, man.

You're killing me. Any movie that came true? I did not prep him with these questions, so this is all off the cuff. Yeah, he's just stumped me here in person. And maybe it's just one or a couple of things that you know kind of come to mind that really meaningful for you that you would like to live out and create well i will say that um i mean i could go on and on about you know i'd love to make you know important movies and tv shows that help turn people on and make the world a better place and want to see Soul Pancake thrive and want to see my son and wife thrive and help them and be of service

to others and become a better person as I go. But just this morning, Louis, we have a nonprofit in Haiti that my wife and I started called Lide. And we, I wrote a mass email to a whole bunch of people in the industry because we wanted, we realized that the girls need more tutoring. So we do, what we do is we do arts and literacy work with at-risk adolescent girls in rural Haiti. arts and literacy work with at-risk adolescent girls in rural Haiti. So we're working with about 500 girls in eight different locations in the really remote parts of Haiti, like places that Haitians don't even go to. And you ask a Haitian, you know this city, they have no idea. And we do arts education, we do drama and writing and photography, and we do literacy,

and we give them, and we give them scholarships and prepare them for a life of getting an education and kind of changing their circumstances. And we realized that they needed more tutoring, and that part of what they needed tutoring on was computer skills and basic typing and some basic computer stuff, which there just aren't any out there in Haiti. So I sent a blast to LA, and we got a whole bunch of donated old laptops, you know, like the Mac that from 2010 that you decided to get the new one that's been sitting in your

closet. So we got a bunch of like 2010 Mac laptops and we sent them down to Haiti. And I just got, I'm going to show you when this is over. I just got a whole bunch of pictures, photos of these girls using these computers for the first time. And the expression on their faces of just, of joy and wonder and possibility. Possibility that a computer equals like them, you know, being able to get an education or maybe to even be a secretary or work in an office or go to websites or these are girls that are too poor to even have a flip phone. It was really uplifting.

And I would say that, you know, I really would like to see our program thrive. So many nonprofit initiatives stumble after 5, 10, 15 years and just trail away. I really want to build up Lide, Haiti and reach. We're at 500 girls. I'd like to reach 5,000 girls. What's it going to take to reach more girls? It's just going to take finances, resources. It's going to take money.

We have a great infrastructure in place. We have a great executive director down there, and we're currently employing about 15 Haitians and running it. So we can expand, and there's lots of places that want us to come in. We can expand. We just need resources. If someone makes a donation, what will go towards their donation? Like what? resources. If someone makes a donation, what will go towards their donation? It'll go towards either hiring more Haitians to help expand our programs or it'll go for scholarships to

get girls into primary or secondary schools. How much does a scholarship cost? Can we know? It's about $500 a year to have a girl do primary education. That's nothing. $500 a year.

That's books, tuition, school uniform, the whole thing. It's about somewhere like $1,000 a year to give them more like secondary or college education. Gotcha. So that's one of the reasons we started working in Haiti is that your money can just go such a long way. that your money can just go such a long way. There's much less bureaucracy. And, you know, with the way that they're so poor there that a little bit goes a super, super long way. We built schools for Pencil of Promise.

I don't know if you've heard of that. But they built schools for kids in poverty in Laos and Guatemala and Ghana. And, again, the money just goes so much further to kids there who have nothing. So, well, we're going to make a donation and sponsor one girl. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. We're going to make a donation and just afterwards I'll tell them where to send it. Oh, man, that's very generous of you.

Thank you, Louis. Of course. I appreciate it. And if you send me those photos, we'll put a couple of them in the show notes for people to see so they can make a donation and send them to the link as well. Nice. I appreciate that. Yeah, of course. Okay, a couple send them to the link as well. Nice. Appreciate that. Yeah, of course. Okay.

A couple of final questions. I keep saying this. I keep saying this. This is called the three truths. And for everyone, we'll have all this stuff linked up that we just talked about on how you can connect with rain and the book and all this stuff. So we'll have it on the show notes here in a second. This is called the three truths.

And again, I haven't prepped rain on this. So the three truths, let's say it's 50 years from now and it's the last day for you and you know it's the three truths. And again, I haven't prepped rain on this. So the three truths. Let's say it's 50 years from now and it's the last day for you and you know it's the last day. And everyone you care about is there. And you're happy. You're healthy. You've achieved everything that you want to achieve for your vision. And for whatever reason, everything you've created has been erased.

Movies, books, works, audio interviews, they're deleted. DVDs of the rocker. DVDs. Those have already been erased. No, I'm just kidding. And there's a – your great-great-grandchild comes up and gives you a piece of paper and a pen and says, well, you write down the three truths, the three things you know to be true about everything you've experienced in life, all the lessons, if you could boil it down to three simple things that would essentially pass on to us, since we don't have any of your books anymore, any of your work, what would those three things be? I think that one is that life – it's hard to make things not sound like a Hallmark card. But I do believe that life is a journey and not about the destination, but it's about the process of being alive while we're here in these meat suits.

So I would say that life is a spiritual journey. There's that great quote by Père Teilhard de Chardin that we are not human beings having a spiritual experience, but we're spiritual beings having a human experience. So life is a spiritual journey. Here we are being spiritual beings having a human experience. That would be number one. I think that number two might be something with there's we have a twofold moral purpose. When I say moral, I mean it in the grandest possible way, not like right or wrong. But our moral purpose is, one, to make ourselves, to maximize ourselves, to be the best possible version of the human being that God wants us to be. And at the same time, and the other hand in hand with that is to try and make the world a better place.

So we have to be doing both of these at the same time. We have to be improving ourselves and making the world a better place so we have to be doing both of these at the same time we have to be improving ourselves and making the world a better place at the same time and i think every human has that obligation and i think you know we could fuck around uh for a long time humanity's around through most of the 20th century and it's like let's have some wars bomb some shit pour pesticides and everything and genetically modify food and pour carbon into the atmosphere and overfish and you name it. We could just kind of – we were like drunken teenagers at their first party just going crazy. But now it really is every human's responsibility to do both of those things and number three would be um

rock and roll baby i don't know man i don't know two is good those are two good ones yeah you had like five in the first two so okay there okay yeah can you break those down break it down it's perfect i love it three is uh have have a good time while doing so. I like it. It's a good one. Yeah. We got to remember to have fun. Yeah. What's the point of doing it all?

Exactly. Laugh. Remember to laugh. Yeah. Laugh more. Yeah. That's good. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Rain, for your

incredible youthful spirit. I think for how much you've done, you have this beautiful, youthful energy about you. It's very creative and you're so wise. I want to acknowledge you for your wisdom because you've gone through a lot, you've been through a lot. And I think a lot of people could position you as maybe not this intelligent, wise human being, but you have so much wealth of information and just connecting with you for an hour here has been incredibly profound for me and it shows me why you achieve the results you have in your life because of your humility your passion and your gifts i want to acknowledge you for wow that's that is super nice i can't

believe you're saying that that's making me i'm gonna have a i'm gonna tear up like i'm on oprah or on jim rome i'm uh uh but no i i, I really appreciate that. And that's one thing that's always hard for me and I think hard for many people is to take a compliment. So I'm going to try and take in that compliment and not kind of in my head go, oh, he's full of shit. So thank you. It's the truth. It's what I see in you. So you're welcome.

I think it's a challenge. Most people have a challenge of receiving. Yeah. Receiving a compliment is really hard. We want it, but we can't receive it when we – Even with our 11-year-old son, my wife paid him a compliment the other day, and he kind of shrugged and rolled his eyes. And we were like, wait, wait, wait a second. We're going to give you a compliment here.

Can you just breathe and take it in? And she gave him the compliment again, and he had to kind of sit there with it. Sit. It's uncomfortable. It's vulnerable. Yeah. It's challenging. It's vulnerable. Yeah. It's challenging. It's very vulnerable.

Yeah. Well, the final question, and I really appreciate you being here, is what's your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is I guess that it has to do with capacity. We all have different capacities. We all have different capacities, and I think that you achieve greatness by maximizing the gifts that you are given and the capacity that you have. So I don't know how to get there or what people's journey is to do that, but maximize capacity. And one of the ways we maximize our capacity is by helping other people maximize their capacities. It's in being of service to others and upraising and uplifting and inspiring and helping others and helping them reach their capacities that we expand our

own. Thanks for coming on, man. Thanks, Louis. Great. This was a lot of fun. Thanks.

And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode if you loved it as much as i did then please make sure to share this out on twitter lewishouse.com slash 339 and you can connect with rain and all of his information about his books about soul pancake make sure to subscribe over on his youtube channel, follow him everywhere, get his books, all that good stuff. And you can watch the full video interview, again, back at our show notes at lewishouse.com slash 339. Let me know what you thought of this interview.

What was the thing that you enjoyed the most of this? What was the biggest takeaway? Share that over on Twitter. Tag me, at Lewis House, and tag Rain as well. Let him know, as I'm sure he would appreciate your feedback, your thoughts, and all of your love. And again, make sure to support the podcast by leaving us a review. The more people that review this, the more people find it on iTunes. We're currently in the top 100 in the world, but we're looking to distribute this message and this content of how to achieve greatness in your lives and inspiration to more people. Currently over 1.3 million downloads a

month, but I want to double that. Let's get up there. Let's continue to spread the message of greatness and I can't do it alone. I need your support. So I'd love for you to again, subscribe. If this is your first time, just click on the subscribe button so you get all the updates every single Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Leave us a review as well. You just click on the iTunes section where the podcast is and leave us an honest review. And then share this. If you felt this was moving or inspiring or helpful or useful to you in any way, then just share it with a friend. You can do it by forwarding this via email.

You can tweet it. You can post it on Facebook. Wherever you feel will be the most appropriate for you. I love you guys. I hope you are pursuing your dreams because it's the most important thing in the world. It's the thing that brings us to life. It's the things that gives us purpose and meaning when we pursue our dreams. Just like Rain said, no matter how challenging it was for him, he continued to stay in the

game because he loved it. Now, I'm not saying you're going to be a huge famous celebrity if you pursue your dreams, but you'll have the opportunity to be the most fulfilled and inspire and impact the most people around you when you're in that pursuit. When you're not pursuing something, when you're not pursuing something, when you're pursuing something you don't love. It's challenging to really impact people and build a legacy and live a life of meaning. So please pursue that thing that is speaking to you and calling inside of your heart because it'll be the most rewarding thing that you do.

And you'll look back at the end of the day and you'll never have to say, I wish I would have. I regret that I didn't go after my dream. Make sure to go after your dream today. And you guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.