The School of Greatness - 362 The Art of Masculinity with Chris Lee

Episode Date: August 3, 2016

"Men don't realize that the key to their success and their power is their heart." - Chris Lee If you enjoyed this podcast, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/362

This is episode number 362 with transformational coach Chris Lee. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone back to another special, incredible edition of the School of Greatness

podcast. We've got our resident coach and expert back on the show, Chris Lee, my good friend, my coach, and an incredible human being who's been doing transformational leadership training for the last 28 years. And we dive in on a topic that Chris has never talked about, something I've never really talked about, inside of masculinity today, inside of this topic. And Chris reveals some things that he's never shared publicly. And also we cover a lot of main things about this topic. A lot of you know, I'm doing research for a new book about masculinity and the things that hold men back

and how women are affecting this as well and what women are doing to support men and hold men back as well. So we dive in about this topic. It gets pretty interesting at a few moments. Some of the key things we talk about are what are some of the ways for a woman to get her man or any man in her life to open up, whether it be a boyfriend or husband, brother, son, father, a friend, how to get any of their close male friends to open up. Also, we cover the differences in masculinity for straight men and gay men. We also talk about where men's power actually comes from and how men can create more power

in this process, why it's so hard for men to say two simple words, I'm sorry, and why men in our society die earlier than women. We cover a lot of this and so much more, but it's something that I'm fascinated by with and really diving in deep to understand this topic because I think it's now more than ever, it's a touchy subject. It's something that is not very clear for a lot of people. It's a little messy. So I thought we'd bring in someone who's been dealing with a lot of ranges of men and women

working in five-day workshops, very intense, learning about and understanding why people have fears, why people have walls, barriers, masks that they live behind that hold them back from their greatness. Because this is really what keeps us from living our most authentic, true life and living in love in order to move past fear. So I think you guys are going to get a lot out of this. Make sure to share this out with your friends, lewishouse.com slash 362. Send a tweet to me right now at lewishouse and at chris motivador on twitter

and let us know what you think while you're listening to this episode let us know the biggest takeaway you got from this also i think this is going to be a topic that a lot of people share and talk about some of chris's episodes are some of the most downloaded interviews that we have so i hope you guys enjoy this one And thanks for continually asking him to come back because we have a lot of topics we want to cover. But this one is something I'm super excited and passionate about right now. So without further ado, let me bring back on the show, the one, the only Chris Lee. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got my dear friend and resident podcast guest on the house, Chris Lee. Thanks for being here.

Thank you. It's an honor to be here. This is number eight. We just found out. We're trying to figure it out. We both guessed wrong. I said six, you said seven or something. You have been on here 11 times. This will be number 11, actually, with two Five Minute Fridays and a repeat episode when the book came out, which if you guys don't have his book, make sure to pick it up. It's called Transform Your Life.

Ten Principles. Ten Principles of Abundance and Prosperity, which was born from an episode that we did here called Ten Principles of Abundance and Prosperity. I wrote the fore forward to it. It's an incredible book. Go pick it up. We'll have it linked up here at the end of the show notes.

Chris Lee is in town for a few days. We had lunch today and I said we got to do a podcast because I'm writing a new book about masculinity and this is a topic that you essentially brought out of me to be a more vulnerable, loving, passionate, wise man. And when I had a lot of love and joy already, but I was also living in a lot of pain, anger, frustration, hurt, resentment, bitterness, competition, and always having to one-up people and having to win in life. Relationships, personal, intimate business, family, friendships. And I realized that in my entire life I was suffering inside. I was very alone inside because I was so driven to achieve and prove everyone wrong.

But in doing so, I was always alone. And I would achieve and achieve and I would feel lonely and unfulfilled at the end. So when you shifted out of me, when I did the workshop with you and you shifted out of me, what it means to be a loving, vulnerable, masculine man and how being loving and vulnerable doesn't mean being weak or being less than or being, uh, you know, still not winning in your competition, but actually thriving and connecting and being a true leader and rising all the ships around you, it really shifted everything in my life in terms of relationships, business, everything. So first, thanks for bringing it out of me and bringing the awareness to me because I think that's the first step is being aware if we are hurting ourselves or what's holding us back from

our greatness or from achieving whatever it is we want in life. And then second, you gave me a lot of tools to use on how to be more loving and vulnerable. And I think that's the challenge. People aren't aware, their ego is in the way, at least mine was, I speak from my existence, ego is in the way. And then we don't have the tools on how to communicate our feelings, our needs, our thoughts, things like that. So I want to talk about the topic of masculinity because I think this is fascinating because you've been training people for 28 years on emotional intelligence, leadership, and really understanding ourselves, being aware. So you've had so much experience. You've seen every type of human being,

every type of race, every type of religion, every age, you've trained them all, right? Is there a character type that you have not trained? I can't think of anything. Right. Or any type. And what you're referring to are the walls that we build. Yes. Because you could have a loving environment and you could have success

and you could have all of the trappings of life, but if you walk around with a chip on your shoulder and you're walking around with an anchor that you're carrying with you and you've got these walls around you, then you'll never be fulfilled. You'll never be happy and you'll never be effective. And then what ends up happening is you start projecting that. And what we have is we've got pictures of what a man should be, pictures of what it means to be powerful,

pictures of what it means to be successful. And we have these images and these pictures, and we've got this criteria that we learn from our parents, our dads, the men in our lives, action heroes, media, et cetera, et cetera. But it's not a realistic picture because it's not authentic. Right, right. And for me growing up, I grew up with the same experience with my dad or my older brother and also in sports, it's really common to hear certain

language about don't be a wuss, don't be a girl, don't be this, don't be that, don't be a fag, don't be all these things. There's no crying in baseball. There's no crying. Yeah, yeah. There's all these beliefs. All these things. And so we're taught to not show emotions.

At least I was. Right. Hide your feelings. Yeah, hide your feelings. Don't show pain. Don't show any of these things. And also, as a man growing up, I don't know if you experienced this, but as a man

growing up, what was always talked about was kind of conquering women. It was like what happened last night? Did you hook up with the girl? Did you meet the girl? What happened? It was always like people wanted to know. It was like, cool, if you're able to conquer the woman or get the girl or however, you know, however you did. And so it was kind of like,

you know, you had a game and you're always playing game in every area of your life as a man to like one up and show people that you were better than or that you're worthy of the masculinity that you're wearing or something. And so I want to talk about this. And the reason why I think you're the perfect person to talk about it, and I don't think you really talk about this publicly. You talk about it in your workshops every now and then, but you're not public about this, but you're gay and you've experienced a lot of different things growing up, especially you're 50 where you look 30, but you're 50, but you experienced 51 and you grew up in a time where it really wasn't accepted like more it is now.

I mean, it's a lot more accepted now. It's a lot more open. It's still scary. Not only did I grow up in a time where it wasn't accepted, I grew up in a culture that it wasn't accepted. You grew up in Puerto Rico. Because I grew up in Puerto Rico, which is el machismo. The macho, the Latin.

But gay was a sign of you were literally less than a human being wow really and it was also a very religious country so it was a lot of religious catholic mostly catholic yeah and uh you know we were also americans growing up in puerto rico so i had i had everything stacked up against me to make me feel like what I was was wrong and bad and less. So how did you deal with the masculinity issues? Did you struggle with it? Well, I basically put on an act. What was that? Well, I think we all do. What was your act? I put on my mask. And my mask was that i don't need anybody and i could do it alone and i became the entertainer so my way of getting uh by was by being likable and entertaining and sociable and you know i put on this giant lie and i had girlfriends and I played sports and it was all a lie.

When did you know that you were gay? When I was nine years old. Really? That I was more attracted to the boys in the class than the girls in the class. But you had girlfriends all through high school or college or? I had girlfriends through high school. Gotcha. So you put on the mask. And I had a hidden life because there was a gay bar that I would go to.

When you were 10? No. High school. Okay, gotcha. We were in high school then. Gotcha. 16th, 17th. When I was 16, 17, there was a club and I had not an uncle, but a friend of the family's

that was gay. Right. And he would kind of introduce me to that whole world. Yeah. Okay. But it was all hidden. So you lived a double life. You put on a mask.

Yeah. You didn't show your authentic self to the real world. Right. Because I thought it was wrong. The rest of the world. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. But it was all hidden. She lived a double life. You put on a mask. Yeah. You didn't show your authentic self to the real world. Right. Because I thought it was wrong. The rest of the world. Yeah. Interesting. And so my idea of masculinity, back to the topic, was don't show your emotions.

Don't show your feelings. Don't express anything that reveals any kind of weakness. So when did you start being true and authentic or dropping the mask and saying, well, this is who I am and this is my definition of masculinity? Well, like you, when I went through a series of processes where I had the opportunity to look in the mirror and see whose life I was living. Because what happens is that, and this is true, gay, straight, whatever, we end up fulfilling other people's vision versus our own vision.

Because when you look at little boys, little boys are feminine. A lot of little boys are very sweet and loving and caring. So they have a good mixture of feminine and masculine, which is the authentic self. Little boys cry. Little boys say, the authentic self. Little boys cry. Little boys say, I love you. Little boys will kiss, hug. They love the world. They share.

And so what happens is that based on the vision of the parents or society, we start putting kids into a little box. You're a boy. You're a girl. Girls should. Boys should. And then we start making the feminine side to us wrong and in women and then for women they make the masculine side wrong and so we start living a life that is not authentic to ourselves

until you go through a transformation or you go through a process of waking up and some people never wake up. Some people end up living behind those walls. And what happens is that we create conflict because when you're not authentic and you're not in integrity with who you authentically are, you can't create relationship. And we all know based on the work we've done and the studies we've done, that the key to success is relationships. Your ability to connect with people, your ability to connect to people's hearts is what builds relationships. Key to success, relationship. But the key to relationship is authenticity. And if I'm not authentic with you, then I'm never in a relationship with you.

And if I'm living behind walls, which is what I do in trainings, I crack people's walls. Right. And you had your walls. I remember like it was yesterday. You know, this, I don't need anybody and I got it all figured out. And you're in this proving it over and over competition. I need to be number one. I need to get to the top. And then you would bypass your feelings, your emotions, and the authentic you. And you, as a result of that, by peeling off layers of all of the messages that we get from the people that we surround ourselves with, whether it's coaches, parents,

friends, et cetera, et cetera, when you start deciphering what's real, what's the authentic me, what's the inauthentic me, then emerges from that, what emerges like a phoenix from the ashes is the unstoppable powerful you, which is vulnerable and open and loving and authentic. So were you in your early 20s then when you started to be open and aware and fully expressing who you were? Completely open and aware and dropping the mask. And the other thing is, you said I was gay, but I don't label myself. I just happen to be a man that I'm attracted to men.

I'm also attracted to women, but not in the same way. I love women. I think women are beautiful. But I have – my take on my sexuality is that that's just a piece of who I am. It's not who I am. Right. It doesn't define you. I'm a human being that I just love people.

Right. And my mission is to make a difference in people's lives. And I like vanilla ice cream. You like chocolate. To me, it's that simple. Yeah, I actually like mint chip pretty good. You like mint chip? So do I.

I knew it. Yeah, that's great. So I like mint chocolate chip too. But anyway, so as we tear off the layers of our inauthentic selves, we are able to extract that diamond, that masterpiece. And I think that that's everyone's journey. And those of you listening to us right now, you want to be thinking about what are those walls that you have that surround the authentic you and whose life are you living? Are you living someone else's life, someone else's definition?

Someone else's message. Okay. So you've done 28 years of transformational work. I'm curious, what is the biggest issue or issues that all the men that you go through and work with, that you coach, you teach, you go through these experiences with? What you're saying, the key issue for men is men don't realize that the key to their success and the key to their power is their heart when men access their vulnerability and their heart because they don't need to work on being strong right they don't need to work on being powerful they don't need to most men don't go to my trainings i need to be more assertive i. I need to be more alpha. Some need that.

The question you're asking me is what is the biggest thing? I'm not saying that some don't, but most men, what they go to do work for and what they invest time and energy and money for is to access their ability to understand their feelings, their ability to navigate through their emotions, their ability to understand other people's feelings and emotions, and their ability to access their heart, which is their femininity, which is their vulnerability. And what I have found, and there's studies that back this up, that men become more effective in every aspect of their life when they access their heart. Really?

You see it in politicians. And when you see a politician that is moving an audience, they go right for the heart. When you see an actor or an actress moving an audience, it's through the heart. when you see an actor or an actress moving an audience, it's through the heart. So I think that the key to the power that we have as human beings is accessing our heart, our vulnerability, and men have made that wrong. Yeah. You know, something you told me a couple of years ago before I went on stage for a speech,

it might've been a year ago, a year and a half ago, I called you up and was like, you know, I'm not sure what to really land in this speech. I was actually revealing about my sexual abuse experience for the first time on stage publicly. This was about a year ago, actually. I remember you saying men in general are so driven to make money and be the wealthiest in the world. We're so driven to achieve financial results. That's one of our masks to show that we are worthy. It's like the more money we have, the more we're worthy. And you said, you know, so many of us strive to be the king of diamonds, but really, if you want to be wealthy forever, you'll be the king of hearts, king or queen of hearts. And I was like, wow, that's really powerful.

And I've been saying that a lot more recently. Yeah, I remember saying that too. And I've been saying it a lot. And people are just like, man, that resonates with me so much. So many people are just like, man, that resonates with me so much. That lands for people. So many people are driven by money. And listen, I want to build a business and a financial empire myself. Nothing wrong with having it all.

Nothing wrong with being abundant and prosperous. But when it puts our worth on how much we make or that's all we focus on. But at the end of the day, Lewis, and everyone listening, you don't take any of that with you to the grave. You can't go to the bank every day. The other thing I want to say is everything you own, you're borrowing it. I know it sounds scary, but everything we have and everything we own is borrowed. Because when you die, it's not yours anymore and you're going to die. when you die, it's not yours anymore and you're going to die. And so my message about being the king of hearts is that if you are the king of hearts, then that's a legacy that never dies.

Because that generosity and that love and that giving that you as a man are able to pass on lives on forever. And think about it. What are people going to remember more, that he was rich and famous and had a lot of money or that he was generous? Generosity. Yeah, that he was generous, that she was generous. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm curious of all the different,

of these masks that I'll talk about. Is there a specific mask that you've seen more of from men over the last 28 years, either in the training or in life outside of the trainings, the need to be stoic, perfect, invincible, a stud, a champion, or breadwinner? Which one do you feel like is, you feel like they're kind of equal or do you see some as more people want to be one way than the other? What's your feel? What's the main mask you see that men wear?

I don't think it's even on that list. It's they need to look good. What will people think of me? How will I appear to others? So that might be stoic. That might fall into the stoic category. Perfect all the time. Yeah, like don't ever let them see you sweat.

Sweat. Don't let them see you cry. Right. Don't ever let them see you sweat. Yeah. Don't let them ever see you cry. Never show vulnerability. Don't show you're hurt.

A lot of men have a hard time saying these words, I'm sorry. Yeah. I was wrong. Why is it so hard for so many people in general? Because it's our ego. And men are more attached to their ego, their pride, than women. One of the biggest masks that we have is that. It's looking good, being right, being in control.

I call it the Fred Flintstone syndrome. Those of you that are too young to know what the Flintstones are, the Flintstones had this lead character cartoon named Fred Flintstone, who was always right. And even if his friend Barney came up with an idea, it was Fred's idea. It's like the honeymoons, Ralph. So I think that that's one of the key masks that we have as men is that we attach our self-worth by how we look and by what we have. How we look. How much we have. What we have.

Achievements. How much we have versus who we are. who we are. So like to use a quote from Martin Luther King Jr., we measure a man by the color of his skin, by what he has, by his accomplishments, by anything that he has produced in terms of a result, but not the content of his character. And he, Martin Luther King Jr. said, I want to be measured when I'm gone by the content of my character, not the color of my skin. So even he was showing vulnerability and authenticity. I don't want to be remembered by like a man who won the Nobel Peace Prize

and someone who has all these awards. I want to be remembered just from a speech that he's made. I want to be remembered as someone who wanted to make a difference and he did. Yeah. Wow. Do you struggle today at all with masculinity or any issues around masculinity? And if so, how do you deal with that process? I really don't because I don't subscribe to anybody else's belief. So it's not – I've worked through it.

But I do notice that people get uncomfortable by my vulnerability sometimes. Yeah, because you could be very vulnerable. You can go there like instantly. Like even you. Like I need to out you. Like I'll look at you and there's times I'm like I love you and I'll cry and you're like, you know. This is way too vulnerable. Sometimes.

You know what I'm talking about. Sometimes I'm there with you and sometimes I'm like – It's a lot. It's intense. It's a lot. It's intense. It's a lot. But the people – because the people in my life that I love and that – you're not just a student or a client or – Yeah, yeah.

You're somebody that – you're a part of my life forever and you know that. Of course. And so I'm always very conscious that I could be dead in the next airplane. Yeah. And I don't want to leave this earth without being vulnerable and without people knowing the day I die, most likely you'll be there at the funeral remembering this conversation. Of course, yeah. Or I'll be at yours remembering this conversation depending on if I'm pushing you in the wheelchair when you're older. Exactly. But the point is, back to vulnerability, I don't have an issue being vulnerable, but I do notice that some people have challenges with my vulnerability.

Others do. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it wakes up their own. Yeah. But you're not trying to make them wrong for not being as vulnerable as you are. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all. It's like quit being so masculine or something, right?

Not at all. Not at all. It's interesting. No, no, no, no. Not at all. It's like quit being so masculine or something, right? Not at all. Not at all. It's interesting.

I did an interview the other day with a guy named Steve Cook who's a big fitness personality, super strong, big guy, got over a million followers. And I asked him, I go, what's your definition of masculinity? Because he's kind of in this bro scene, which is very like jockey community. It's like fist pump in the air. Yeah. It's all like 22-year-olds. They're just like, let's get big, bro.

You know, it's like. Right, right, right. Bromance. Yeah, exactly. And I like, let's get big, bro. You know, it's like. Right, right, right. Bromance. Yeah, exactly. And I said, what's your definition? And he said, to put others first or to be in service. There's something along those lines. It was like masculinity is putting others first and being in service.

And I was like, that's such a beautiful. That's a beautiful. Beautiful definition. Right. Because he grew up thinking, you know, that Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone were like masculine guys. They were like big and strong and like saved the girl or whatever. But really it was like putting others' needs, being there for others.

And I was like that's a power way of thinking about a true definition of masculinity. Well, to me it's humility. Like the man that is the most humble is the most masculine to me. Because humility is about – not about bending or lowering yourself to the world to me humility is about lifting others up so it's not like i don't need to be a martyr or a doormat to show that i'm humble humility is i'm a proud human being i'm, but my mission is to lift others up. Yeah. And to me, that's what true masculinity is. Now, how has masculinity changed over your lifetime? How is the definition or has it stayed the same since you were younger?

No, it has shifted because – And how has it evolved with women being more masculine now in the workforce and in relationships? Well, the roles are shifting. A lot of women are the breadwinners. A lot of women are making more money than the men. A lot of men are taking on roles at home that traditionally you never saw before. There's a lot of stay-at-home dads that are the ones who take care of the kids while the wife or the girlfriend gets a degree or gets work or goes to work. There's a lot of shifting in that. And I think that the world is becoming more open to men's vulnerability.

I even saw ads in – this is interesting that we're even talking about this. I love it. I think it's an important topic and an important conversation to have. I was in Bogota, Colombia, and I saw an ad about what a true man is. And it shows a man tearing up a wall, like tearing down a wall. And then it gives people the option. Is it that man, the one that could bust through a wall? And then it shows a man holding his newborn son and crying.

And then it says, which one's more macho? And then, of course, they give the answer, and it's the man holding his son. Because it takes being macho to be vulnerable and to be open and to be loving. And it was such a powerful message that the world is saturated with aggressiveness and guns and violence and all of this pollution. Segregation. Yeah, and separation, discrimination and walls, et cetera, et cetera. And what the world needs is love And what the world needs, you know, is love. And what the world needs is compassion.

And I think that the roles have shifted. And the other thing is even how men dress, you know, the whole term metrosexual, you know, men now are more aware of there's more products. Look at that. Take care of their hair more than women. Look at the hair products for men, the skin products for men the skin products for men you know now it you don't need to be gay to get a facial or a manicure or pedicure or there's a there's a man's salon that i go to it's not a barbershop anymore it's a man it's a salon and uh you know men now dress very nicely and you know and all that and so so i think that my you know a lot of the diehard old-fashioned people have a big resentment against what's happening.

Are men becoming less masculine because of this? And I say no. I think that we live in a time where we can make choices and those choices need to be authentic. So whatever is authentic. and those choices need to be authentic. So whatever's authentic. How does a man, say a man or a woman's listening now where they realize, well, maybe there's some things in my life that I've been wearing a mask and I haven't been as real

or as authentic or vulnerable, whatever it may be, with people in my life. Now I'm aware. Now I'm aware, but I don't know what to do. How do I actually drop it and really step into it? It's terrifying to me. I feel like I'm going to get judged. I'm going to get shamed. I'm going to feel whatever. People are going to laugh at me or make fun of me if I am vulnerable or talk about feelings or any of these things. What's something, an exercise,

an example, something that someone could do to drop the mask for the man? And if they're a woman, what's something they could do to have a conversation with a man, a brother, father, boyfriend, husband, that maybe is wearing these masks and hasn't been able to break through to them? What's a conversation that's disarming that could open up the awareness to move the man forward? So that's disarming that could open up the awareness to move the man forward so that's two long questions there but if you're a man listening what's something a man could do to move forward and exercise or something for them to practice because it's a muscle you've got to

work at it you know it's not just like i'm vulnerable all of a sudden and i'm open and i'm not defensive and i'm not going to try to win and attack you know it's like uh i'm gonna take some time to evolve into that. But what's a man can do and then what can a woman do? Well, there's a couple of things a man can do. I think that number one is identify what are the beliefs that we have surrounding certain things. Like if I'm open, what does that mean?

If I'm vulnerable, what does that mean? If I share my feelings, what does that mean? If I'm vulnerable, what does that mean? If I share my feelings, what does that mean? The reason why we don't do or we do is based on a belief structure. Our belief structure is a GPS system that we use. The same way you listen to Siri or you follow Google Maps or Waze, those are GPS systems that navigate you through the world in terms of going from point A to point B. As human beings, in terms of masculinity, in terms of what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman, what it means to be vulnerable, we are also serving a GPS system. And that GPS system is something that we need to investigate. And one of the ways to investigate is journaling.

I think journaling is very powerful. We don't do it enough. We don't even write anymore. We type. I mean really get out a notebook and just write. What are my beliefs about being open? How do I feel? What's my fear about sharing my feelings, my emotions?

And look over those beliefs and ask yourself which one of those beliefs are facts. Can you give us an example of beliefs? A belief could be that if I'm open, I'll look weak. If I share my feelings, people will laugh. If I say I love you first, then that means that I need to now marry that person. If I wear a color that's soft, then that means I'm gay. So those are all beliefs that surround thoughts or choices. And then what you want to do is look at the beliefs and ask – this is like a journaling exercise – is ask yourself which one of those beliefs are absolute facts.

And you'll realize that they're not facts. They're just interpretations. And you'll realize that they're not facts. They're just interpretations. And so what I would invite people to do is to look for a positive interpretation to replace the negative one. So if I open up, I'll actually get closer to people. If I share my feelings, people won't laugh. They'll know me deeper.

If X, then that's just one way. Replace negative thoughts with positive thoughts, negative interpretations with positive ones. Then I'll be more freed up to do it. Another thing I recommend is for men to role play. Role playing is very, very valuable when you role play with somebody. You know what? I have a hard time expressing my feelings. You find someone that you're safe with, that you're comfortable with. Kind of like I've been that for you. We've been in a dyad for a couple of years now. Yeah, yeah.

A dyad means communication between two people. We've had dyads about everything. Yes. But sometimes you'll run things by me and they might be uncomfortable and scary. But once you get it out there, it becomes easier. And so I think that men could actually start practicing. You know what? and scary, but once you get it out there, it becomes easier. And so I think that men could actually start practicing, you know what, I have a hard time sharing my feelings, but I'm going to trust you, and this is how I feel about you, and this is what I'm feeling about this, and start practicing that vulnerability. Yeah.

I think a great way to start off is saying, you know what, it's really hard for me to do X, Y, and Z. Right. Say that first. And so you're letting the other person know, like, this is a great way to start off is saying, you know, it's really hard for me to do X, Y, and Z. Right. Say that first. And so you're letting the other person know, like, this is a challenging thing to open up, to talk about, and maybe ask for permission. You know, do I have permission to share how I'm feeling? It's kind of weird for me or it's scary, but do I have permission to share openly without judgment or something in return, right? And another thing that people could do is do things that are out of their comfort zone you know start risking you know start uh you know if adding a heart a

little couple hearts to your text is like a risk for you then add a couple of those emojis you know if um you know taking somebody out on a date instead of you know this action-packed movie that you're used to going to see because it's so masculine, then why don't you go to a movie that your girlfriend wants to see? The rom-com. You know? And actually cry at the movie.

Give yourself permission to cry. Hey, go to a sports movie. I'll always cry. Rudy, I cry at the end every time. I did too. I loved it. It was amazing. It was great.

It was great. So that's what a man can do. He can role play. He can journal. He can talk about the different exercises there. What could a woman do when she is in a relationship with a guarded man or a man that's constantly wearing a mask? Maybe it's around one issue. Maybe he's amazing all the time, but he doesn't express his feelings or he's –

That's interesting that you're asking that because today I was talking to somebody who is dating another person who does not open up, does not share, but she's never had the courage to tell him. So that's number one. It's scary for a woman. Be honest and let your partner know how important it is for you for them to open up. Women, you're not mind readers. Men, women, though they appear psychic, they're not. You know, they need to know what's going on in your head. And most men are Neanderthals in regards to feelings and emotions, especially in a relationship. You know, they are the missing link. You know, they have a hard time expressing how they feel because they think it's

unimportant. But just because it's unimportant to you doesn't mean it's not unimportant to the person that you're dating. So women can actually empower men to actually share. And if men have a hard time languaging something, women, you could give them suggestions. For example? For example, how do you feel about this relationship? Do you feel A, B, give them multiple choice. A, you're committed, you're excited, you're in love, this is like what you've dreamt of. B, you're in the getting to know me stage.

You got to give them simple stuff, simple baby steps, especially somebody who's not used to being open, not used to being vulnerable. But I think that with love and compassion and support, little by little, people will start breaking down those walls. And, of course, something else that everyone can do is hire a coach, participate in seminars like the seminar that you did with me. You know, workshops are a great environment and, you know, you could research, you know, leadership workshops. They're great environments to actually stop the press of your life, stop the stress and kind of evaluate where I am. And one of the things that you're going to be looking at are the walls that are in between you and what's possible, especially in being vulnerable and reinventing masculinity.

I think that the issue is not masculinity. I think the issue is the definition of it. Yeah. And what's your definition of it? Being humble. Being humble. Somebody who's masculine is someone who's humble and vulnerable and willing to share how they feel, willing to express their emotions, willing to show weakness, which doesn't necessarily mean that you are a weak person. But we all have strengths and weaknesses and someone who's vulnerable and humble and also the person who's willing to lift other people up. Yeah.

Someone who's vulnerable and humble and also the person who's willing to lift other people up. Yeah. What are the similarities or differences, if there are any, for masculinity stereotypes with a gay man versus a straight man in your opinion? I think that it depends. There's different kinds of gay men. There's different types, stereotypes. There's masculine. There's feminine within the gay community. There's different types, stereotypes, there's masculine, there's feminine within the gay community, there's aggressive, there's passive, there's different definitions within the gay community. And I think that men as well, there are men that are passive, there's men that

are aggressive, there's men that are analytical, There's men. And I think that the biggest difference between straight men and gay men is that gay men have or feel that they have more permission and it's more accepted for them to be vulnerable. And men are so afraid of being labeled gay. And that's something that I find fascinating. Because the viewpoint of gay is it makes you weak and makes you less of a man. And it's still that way. You know, it's everywhere I go, when the topic comes up of gay and straight, straight men make jokes. Straight men, you know, uh innuendos it's kind of like there's a fascination among straight people about the gay lifestyle because to some of them it's so

foreign or for some of them there's another feeling or desire that's within them that they haven't exposed so they make fun of it or they try to put it down because they don't right there's a lot of people that are bisexual that don't act on it, that don't own it, that don't observe it. It's their own mask. It's their own mask. Interesting. And you notice that people are super – like you, you're super comfortable. You know you're heterosexual.

You love women and you're very aware of it. You have no intimidation. Our relationship, we could sleep in the same bed and you're totally cool with it right i live in the middle of like the gayest community in la you know i live in boystown so i'm very comfortable and you're and when you get hit on you don't freak out you're like you like feel better you know like thank you great compliment but that's also uh that's also a symbol of masculinity that you're so comfortable in your skin. A lot of men aren't comfortable in their skin.

Yeah. I could walk in a gay club and feel completely fine. Right. I mean, there's moments where I'm like, okay, I don't need someone. Well, no. If someone's trying to influence you on something, that's disrespectful.

But I'm comfortable in my own skin. I think there was a time when I was younger where I probably wasn't as comfortable. I was more ignorant to it. I felt like because my teammates would say things about the gay community or whatever, that I was like, I had to say things. Or they would ride you in terms of – not literally, but they would literally – they would make fun of somebody. They wouldn't give up. They wouldn't let up on it.

Hold on. They'd keep calling you names for months and months or whatever. And what about even heterosexual boys that tend to be a little more passive and a little more feminine? What would those kids do to them? They call them gay or they bully them or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of you listening were probably called gay and were called you know weak and and whatever because you

were more you had softer and more vulnerable than than others and of course put that wall right up yeah which is why a lot a lot of homophobic people are probably people that were bullied or abused or sexually abused or have fears of of exploring their own sexuality. Yeah. And I know there are some that they get so big and strong, they become like machines in the weight room to defend themselves of that attack or bullying or name-calling or whatever. So a lot of people get big and strong for some type of defense.

And a lot of people ask themselves, so what does being vulnerable and loving and kind and generous and humble have to do with success? My answer is everything. Yeah. And I say that in the training. I think you remember that. Of course.

When I put you in a situation where we're not going to reveal it because it's confidential and people need to go through their own process. But you did something that you would have never done before. Well, there's many things I did I would have never done before, but yes. No, but in a specific situation where you were able to – It was unbelievable. It was like a role play. It was unbelievable.

And it was beautiful and it was moving and it was uplifting and just – The whole room is in tears. Everyone's in tears and I was in tears and it was moving and it was uplifting and just – The whole room is in tears. Everyone is in tears and I was in tears and it was just beautiful. I would have never done that before. Of course not. Yeah. And then of course that – and it wasn't about the act. It was about accessing vulnerability and openness and being loving.

And I want to make another point about this whole thing is – and I've been saying that lately a lot, it's possible to be loving, which is vulnerable in what we're talking about, feminine, and powerful. Yes. You don't need to give up one for the other. And a lot of women think, well, you know, I can't be loving and powerful. I could only be loving and I give up the power. And my point of view is if you're just loving, then that shows up as weak. If you're just powerful, that shows up as aggressive.

Or egotistical. And selfish and abrasive. When you combine both, which is both energies, the vulnerability and the masculinity, the love and the power, then that's like an unstoppable combination. And it's a dance. It's an art. It's constantly evolving and growing and learning. And it's a skill. We've got to learn to develop this communication style of when to step into a more powerful role or a more loving, aware role.

And it's not easy. It's definitely not easy. And that's why leaders are leaders, because they can access that. They can access their understanding of every situation. They're aware. They're confident in themselves. They master different skills. And they can step into any type of role they need to in any situation.

And giving up what people think of me is a very important element of this. I'll give you an example. I was watching a movie on the airplane and it was one of these movies that by by the middle of it i'm like sobbing crying i'm having a moment i'm having a moment yeah and people around me were like what what is wrong with this guy he's like like, I think it might have been. No, you know what it was? It was Eddie the Eagle.

I didn't see it. You didn't see Eddie the Eagle? It's just the downhill skiing one or whatever. Yes. And he was bullied his whole life. And he was like the nerd. And no one paid attention to him. And he kept breaking his glasses and he kept –

It's a true story or no? It's a true story. Yeah, I never saw it. It's a true story. It was good though. He qualified for the Olympics and everything. But the movie was so moving. It was like the underdog makes it.

Right. And so I'm watching the movie. It's like Rudy. And I'm watching the movie. It's like Seabiscuit. I'm watching the movie and I'm having an attack. And a part of me almost went back to the old me. And I stopped myself because I saw people looking at me.

And I went, you know what? That's no problem. I'm like sobbing. And then this guy comes up to me and he goes, you must be watching Eddie the Eagle. Wow. He goes, when I saw you cry, I know that you were watching that movie because I was crying. It's like it validated his cry. Like it was okay to cry.

Like he felt guilty about crying, but when he saw me crying, he thought it was good. Yeah. But it's interesting how we are as men and how we do that. And I think expressing our emotions however we do it, if we don't express it either verbally or through tears or through physical exertion or whatever it is, if we hold in the emotion and expression and we don't communicate it out in some way, it's going to bottle up and hurt us in the long run. Whether it's physical pain, emotional pain, it's going to come out in cancer. It's going to come out in attacking someone or hitting someone. Well, they say that men die earlier than women in our society because men don't express how they feel. Wow. Because most men die of a broken heart.

And what happens is that men, what they do is men are experts at stuffing their feelings and stuffing their emotions. And so what you're saying is so important that part of the myth of masculinity is not to show how you feel. People die and you stuff it. People break up and you stuff it. You lose a job and you stuff it. But that stuffing it gets manifested, like you just said, in a lot of different ways. I've seen it in my training rooms. I could tell. I could tell people walk in, people that are addicted, people that are workaholics, people that are miserable,

people that have mansions and no one in it, people that have cancer. They walk around with a bag to go to the bathroom. It develops cancer, heart disease, all of the – think of the word disease, dis-ease. I'm not at peace. I'm in dis-ease. When you're at ease, you're in peace. When you're in dis-ease, that creates disease. And so this podcast can save your life.

Really listen to it because as we start letting go of our feelings and our emotions, that rejuvenates us. Is there any final thing you want to talk about this topic? I feel like we could go on for a while about it, but I want to kind of button it up and give people some things to do. We've already given some great exercises. I've given them some information, some awareness. Is there anything final point about what men or women could do to move forward in their lives around this topic? I think educating yourself. I think reinventing the definitions, like what it really means to be a man. And I think that what it means to be a man or a woman has to do with your values and your principles

and what's the legacy you're going to leave behind. What gift do you leave behind when you go? It's not the man with the most toys that wins. It's the man or the woman that touched the most hearts that win. That's my final message. I love it. Make sure to get Chris's book, Transform Your Life, 10 Principles of Abundance and Prosperity. We'll link it up here in the show notes.

You've already given your definition of greatness. You've already shared your three truths. so I'm going to acknowledge you for the last moment to acknowledge you for constantly showing up with a huge vulnerable loving heart and educating me, educating our audience. I think there's been over a million

downloads from all the episodes you've been on so you've impacted so many people's lives so thanks for being a constant giver giver, giver, lover it's amazing, I appreciate you it is my honor and make sure to connect with Chris Giver, giver, giver, lover. It's amazing. I appreciate you. It is my honor. Yes.

I appreciate it. And make sure to connect with Chris at Chris Motivador on Twitter is the main place you hang out. And Instagram, Chris Lee 65. Chris Lee 65. Facebook, Chris Lee Motivational Trainer. Awesome. We'll link it all up. Thank you, Chris.

Thank you, Louis. Love it. This is home. This is it. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, what did you guys think of this episode? What opened up for you? Share with me over on Twitter or over on the comments on the YouTube channel, on the blog, anywhere.

Let me know what opened up for you. Again, at Lewis Howes on Twitter, at Chris Motivador on Twitter as well. lewishowes.com slash 362 to get all the resources, all the links to watch the full video interview, to get the one-line quotes that you thought were awesome. We have all those linked up as well for you to share them out and to have the conversation about what you think is masculinity and what the art of masculinity is like for you. So let me know what you think. If and what the art of masculinity is like for you. So let me know what you think. If you enjoyed this episode as well, and you haven't yet left a review over on iTunes,

now is your chance. We have over a thousand five-star reviews, but I want to get more people leaving feedback and reviewing because that's going to help spread this message out to more people over on iTunes and in the world. We get over 1.3 million downloads a month and we're looking to double, triple, quadruple that as fast as possible to reach more people and help them live their best life and live in their greatness. So please leave a review at itunes.com slash school ofness. I love you guys. Again, share this out with your friends. Let me know what you think.

And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music