The School of Greatness - 364 How to Overcome Fear On the Battlefield and In Life with Capt Dale Dye

Episode Date: August 8, 2016

"One of the great things about being a leader is you tend to forget about yourself." - Capt Dale Dye If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/364

This is episode number 364 with Captain Dale Dye. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness.

Super pumped and excited about our guest today. His name is Captain Dale Dye, and he is a U.S. Marine who served in Vietnam receiving three Purple Hearts. He also spent 22 years in the military before heading to Hollywood. And now he's an actor who has dedicated his career to accurately portraying military roles on screen. He's best known for his roles in Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Natural Born Killers, to name a few. He's also created a company, Warriors Inc., to teach actors how to appeal realistic and war scenes on films. He talks about all of the famous actors and famous war movies that he's consulted on to really train these actors. He puts them through extreme conditions, extreme boot camp style conditions to put them in realistic moments so they can accurately portray what it's actually like in combat on the screen.

I had a lot of fun connecting with Dale and hearing his stories. I mean, he has so many incredible stories and man, he has been through a lot. So there was a lot of wisdom and knowledge here. And you know, one of the things I was fascinated with was how he manages fear and how you manage fear on the combat field and how you translate managing that in the real world, in relationships, also while you're acting in all these different areas. So we talk about how to get to the point where you don't show fear, even if you're feeling fear. Then we talk about emotional strength and physical strength and which one is more important on the battlefield and in life. He talks about his perspective on

women joining the military, how to get through an extremely stressful moment in combat and Dale's experience on managing emotions while in military service. And I asked him, you know, how were you able to express yourself? And did you feel like military hold you back emotionally in any way during the military? And once you got out in relationships and there were some fascinating things that he shared and I'd love to get your feedback and opinion on these. So make sure to tweet me at Lewis Howes and let me know what you thought. Also, check out the full video interview, all the show notes, and everything we talked about linked in this episode at lewishowes.com slash 364.

And share this out with your friends. Share it out because I think it's going to be a great perspective for a lot of people listening, no matter what industry or field they are in. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Captain Dale Dye. Welcome, everyone, back to the School of Games podcast. I'm very excited about our guest today. His name is Captain Dale Dye. Good to see you, Captain. Thankye. Good to see you, Captain. Thank you.

Good to see you. And I want to read your bio because I think it's pretty impressive. I think people will be fascinated with this. Okay. So bear with me for a second. All right. I'll bear. Captain Dale Dye enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in January 1964, correct?

Yeah. Okay. He served in Vietnam, serving 31 major combat operations. He served in Vietnam, serving 31 major combat operations. He emerged from Southeast Asia, highly decorated, including three Purple Hearts for wounds suffered in combat. He spent 13 years as an enlisted Marine. Then he was sent to Beirut with the multinational peacekeeping force. He spent time in Central America reporting and training troops in guerrilla warfare techniques in both El Salvador and Nicaragua before heading to Hollywood.

And he is now an actor who has dedicated his career to accurately portraying military roles on screen. He's best known for his roles in Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Natural Born Killers, to name a few. He's also created a company called Warriors Inc. that teaches actors how to appeal realistic in war scenes in films. Is that accurate? Is that correct? That's pretty fair. It's a little overblown, but yeah, there you have it. I like it. I like it. And a fun fact about you is you joined the Marine Corps after high school because you didn't have enough money for college.

Is that right? Yeah. I'd gone to military schools, Louis, Missouri Military Academy. In Missouri, huh? Yeah. I went to high school in St. Louis. Oh, terrific. Yeah.

I'm from Cape Girardeau. Okay, cool. Awesome. So I really wanted to go to the Naval Academy. Okay. But I was a bit more of a jock than I was a scholar. And so when I took the test for the Naval Academy, I couldn't pass. All right.

And in those days, you know, there wasn't a lot of grant money around and all that sort of thing. So, you know, I wasn't going to play professional baseball, it looked like. And I wasn't going to the Naval Academy. And, you know, poor me. So I cried the poor ass for a little while and then joined the Marine Corps. There you go. Kind of foreign legion thing. Okay.

But you say it's more hardcore than the other academy, right? Yeah, I think so. More of a jock academy, right? Yeah. Well, the Marine Corps is a jock thing. I mean, you've got to be ready to roll at any time and you've got to roll hard. And that appealed to me. Interesting.

I'm curious just off the – what was the most fascinating part for you about boot camp going into that? What was the biggest challenge or – Well, it camp going into that? What was the biggest challenge? Well, it wasn't that big a challenge for me because I'd been through all of the military school discipline, and I'd learned the basics and that sort of thing. So it was really a chance to start studying the military society as it really exists. really exists. And I enjoyed watching the power plays with the drill instructors and how they trained us and how they taught us. I saw through it a bit. I knew what they were doing. And I just thought it was colorful and wonderful. And I kept my mouth shut and cruised through it. And I knew right then, I think, that this was something for me. This appealed to me.

That's cool. Okay. So it wasn't challenging at all. And boot camp, is it two weeks or is it four weeks? Oh, no, no, no. It was 13 weeks. 13 weeks? Yeah, when I went through. Wow.

I think it's down to 11 now or something like that. But it was a tough school, a hard school. When I say it wasn't a challenge for me, I don't mean it wasn't physically a challenge. They will wear you out. Sure. And they did. Okay. And so after that, you spent 13 years in the Marines, right?

No, 13 years as an enlisted man. Enlisted man. And then I put in for a commission, and I was commissioned, and finally finished as a captain after 22 years. Oh, wow. So I'm what's called a Mustang. I came up from the enlisted ranks. Okay. So 22, is that total years?

Yeah. Okay. And how many years as a captain? 22 years? There would have been about seven years as a commissioned officer. Seven years commissioned. Okay, awesome. Impressive.

That's pretty cool. And how many different ranks are there, just so I'm aware? Well, there's nine in the enlisted rank structure, and I made eight of them. And then I applied to become an officer, but I didn't have a college degree. So they made me a warrant officer. And at that point, I was going to night school, and I was trying to get a college degree so I could advance, and eventually I did. To the ninth position? No, no, no. I'd already finished with the enlisted stuff. Okay, I'll got you guys. I was an officer, and I wanted to advance as an officer. Interesting. So I needed a college education. I was going to night school, the University of Maryland, where I eventually graduated. I remember I was out on Okinawa and going to night school, and I was trying for a degree, a baccalaureate in arts degree,

and I needed a week where I had no duties in the Marine Corps. I just had to study because I was challenging the exams and finals were coming up, and if I could only pass these exams, I'd be granted my degree. So I went to see my battalion commander, who was an old time, salty, tough Marine. And I said, sir, look, I really need a week off because I got to study and this is my degree and I'm really trying to advance. And he looked at me and he said, a week off, huh? What's your major, Di?

And I said, sir, it's English literature. He thought for a minute and he said, what are you going to do, Di? Are you going to read them to death? Yes, sir, I probably will do that. He gave me the time off anyway. I was able to complete the degree. That's cool. Okay.

Was the goal always to be captain or was it something else? No, I didn't know what the goal was. The goal was to be able to lead more people. That was always my thrill. Why did you want to do that? I guess it is seeing and influencing other people's behavior and performance, that was a treat for me. Raising other people's children, essentially, is what I was doing, and I loved it. I mean, you could see young men and women in the Marine Corps, in my units, grasping and trying and trying to succeed and try to get ahead.

And they had all the typical problems that young people do. And I liked being Papa Bear. I liked being the guy they came to and said, you know, sir, I got this problem and what do I do about it? And sometimes I didn't know. Sure. But I appreciated that they would come to me and I would try to work out something to help them get along and help them advance. And that was a great thrill for me. Amazing. I enjoyed that they would come to me, and I would try to work out something to help them get along and help them advance.

And that was a great thrill for me. Amazing. I enjoyed that. And so you have to educate me because I don't know about all the ranking and how many things. Clearly you don't, but go ahead. I don't. So educate me and all the people that don't know listening. So at each rank, you're responsible for more people, I'm assuming, when you're enlisted, right?

And then as a captain, how many are you leading at that point? Well, it depends on what you're doing. Okay. You could lead up to 200. I think the most I had at one point was probably 50 or 60. Okay. As a captain. Yeah.

Okay. And it was a challenge because they're all individuals. They're all trying to succeed. They're all trying to survive. They have different desires, wants, needs. They do. Sure, they do. Yeah.

And I would try to recognize those things. Sure. And I would try to guide them along, not to make big mistakes. And it's a tough deal with young folks. And the more we move into more modern society and the more pressures are on young people, the tougher it gets to lead them. But I think they're all looking for it. At least I perceive that. I would always think back on the people who influenced me and how they, you know, tough love, I guess, would be the way you could, would be the way you'd describe it. But they would take me, you know, by the arm and say, listen, you, the following attends, pay attention.

You know, and I'd listen. And usually their advice was right on the money. Not that I wanted to hear it sometimes. I was like anybody else, a little hardhead. Sure. But once you get past that and you know that you're dealing with a mentor, you know, a person who really wants to help you out and does have your best interest at heart, those people make a huge influence on your life. I mean, you know that. Your coaches.

Of course. Some of the guys who coached you. Some of the guys who taught you. You always remember those people because they made such an influence on you. Teachers, coaches, mentors, of course. What was combat like for you when you were enlisted and then when you were also as a captain? What were the differences and what was it like? Well, there's no difference in combat. Look, when somebody's trying to kill you and your mission is to kill them before they do it. You're in extremis. You're in

as far as the person can get. Everything's at stake. And you realize that. Do you ever get used to it? Probably not. But I think you learn to manage the fear. I think you learn to deal with it and pay attention to other things. I've always thought that one of the great things about being a leader, especially in combat, was that you tended to forget about yourself, which I think is magic. I wish more people could do it. I mean, we're way too self-centered nowadays. And it's not about you a lot of times. It's about the mission. It's about what we've got to do. It's about the other people that you're responsible for. And in my case, when I was in bad straits, when I was in dire straits, that always helped me to

get over the fear that I had. I don't have time to be afraid for myself right now. I've got to be afraid for this guy and this guy and this guy. I've got to be afraid that we won't get the mission done. And that's everything. But when it's life or death on the line, it's still challenging, right? I mean. It's a tough one and it's ugly. Listen, you know, I've always thought that in one way, Hemingway was right. He said that war is man's greatest adventure.

And it's true. On the other hand, greatest nightmare. Yeah, it is. It is the greatest nightmare. It's ugly. And you see some things you never forget and you never want to see again. But there you are. That's what you're in it to do it. Yeah. And you've got to do it. And I like the selflessness part of it. And you've got to do it. And I like the selflessness part of it. I like the business of serving and sacrificing, although those have become cliches now. But I like the business of doing something that's being engaged in something that's bigger than myself.

Of course. Carrying a mission and a role that means something bigger than am I going to survive. It means is my nation and my countrymen going to survive. That's what I try to keep in the back of my mind. Of course. I think it's hard to feel fulfilled and happy if it's just about you. Boy, I would think so. Yeah. I mean, every time I've gotten wrapped around my own axle, it's never worked out real well.

It's not fulfilling. It's stressful. There's frustration and things like that. So I just can't – it's just hard for me to imagine. I remember there was a moment in high school where I was like, you know, maybe the military is something I would do. But then I quickly got out of that and I was like, I'd rather be a professional athlete, you know. That was the dream. But I always had – you know, my dream was to represent my country to the best of my ability.

And now I play with the USA national team for a sport called team handball. So I feel like in some way, small way, I'm doing that when I wear USA across my chest. Yeah, you feel that. I feel the pride. I'm like welling up in tears when they're singing the national anthem before every game. It's amazing for me. Yeah. But there's more to whether or not you win the game.

Yeah. My life doesn't depend on it. That's right. If we lose, I'm not going to die. No, but you feel that to whether or not you win the game. Yeah, my life doesn't depend on it. That's right. If we lose, I'm not going to die. No, but you feel that weight because you're carrying that USA. I feel it, and I don't want people to see me. I get it. Yeah, so in some ways I can sort of relate, but not in close.

Who is someone that in your mind reminds you, or who's one of the most inspiring people that you served alongside on any mission or combat? And what was it that they did that inspired you so much? Well, there's, there's been a lot of them. I think, I think the person who probably taught me, um, taught me to conquer fear, um, was, um, a platoon commander that I had in Echo Company, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marines.

We called him Wild Bill Tehan. And Bill was absolutely fearless, or I thought he was, because he would always be out front and running and rounds flying all over the place and people dropping here and there and getting blown into bloody pulp. And we'd be shocky when something like that would happen. But T-Han would get up and say, follow me, and off he would go. And, you know, I just thought he was a lunatic. I mean, this guy.

He would just run into the war. He badly needs to be committed somewhere. But but there came a night we were out and we'd had a really bad day. Tough day. Lots of lots of folks down and getting chewed up. And and I was in a where was this in Vietnam near the Quaviet River. And I was in a hole, you know, trying to stay awake. Stay alive, right?

He dropped into the hole and started talking to me. And, you know, I figured, what the hell, I'm probably going to be dead tomorrow. I'll just ask this guy, you know, what the deal is. And he told me a lot about, you know, he said some things that I've since read later. And I don't know if he had read them or just how he felt. But he said, you know, it's just about not letting anybody know how afraid you are. He said, I've got a platoon here that I need to run. And I need to inspire.

And I need to motivate. And I need to take care of. And in order to do that, they can't see me afraid. But I am. And I thought, you know, I've just had one of these epiphanies. The light bulb just came on above my head. He wasn't fearless at all. He was just as afraid as the rest of us were.

But he knew how to manage it. He knew how to deal with it for himself right so that it wouldn't affect us and i thought well there's a lesson for you huh so is it better to essentially i don't know fake it that you're not afraid or whatever you do to manage it so that you're not showing fear or to be more vulnerable and say hey guys i guys, I'm afraid just like you, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to go after it. No, no, no. That's touchy-feely. Okay.

Especially in the war, you can't do that. You can't go that way. What about life can you go that way? I doubt it. And not a life or death situation. What that calls to mind in my case is something I hear here in Hollywood all the time, and that is never let them see you sweat. I think there's something to that. There's a certain bearing that you've got

to have as a leader and as a human being, and you have to maintain that bearing. Now, that's something that's learned. That's something you have to practice. But when you've got it, it goes a long way toward conquering fear. If someone asks me, were you afraid? The answer is yes. Oh, hell yes, I was afraid. But I managed not to let it stall me, not to let it conquer me. Hesitate. Yeah.

And I think that's what you have to do. How does someone do that? How does someone manage it to that level where they don't show it? Well, the first thing you do is stop thinking about yourself. Look, you have a job to do. And that job can be as simple as existing as a human being, as a male human being from day to day. You've got a job to do. And you've got to stop thinking about how do I feel,

you know? Oh my, you know, I have to get up early this morning. I think I'll cry the poor ass. You know, that's nonsense. You've got things to do. You have to face life. Life is not easy. War is not easy. Business is not easy. Doing what we're doing right now is not easy. But you have to make it that way. You have to make the other person, the other people around you feel that it's easy. If you can do that and forget about yourself, I think you go a long way. You take a big step. And the longer you do it and the more you see it as effective, the more you're training yourself. You're training yourself.

That's right. Yeah. Okay. What are some things that people could do, you think, on a daily basis or weekly basis to embrace that and start optimizing that part of their life of fear not running them when they go to a job interview or to give a speech or presentation or whatever it is so it doesn't rule them? Back off and see the big picture. The big picture is that this job interview may be extremely important to you, and I understand that, and you may desperately need that job. But desperation is not what you need when you go in.

Confidence is what you need when you go in. And you have to back off a bit from how you feel and the fact that you've got a pile of bills over here that have to get paid and they won't unless you get this job. Yeah. That's pressure. It is. I mean, that's got you in a vice here. But you have to back away from it and say, okay, I could go in and fall on my knees and start sobbing and say how badly I need this job.

But is that who the guy wants? No. No, he doesn't want that sobbing mess of goo on his floor there. He wants a guy who stands up and says, look, I've got problems. I need to solve them. And I'm asking you to give me a hand so that I can solve them, and more importantly, so that I can help you solve your problems. Once again, it's not thinking so much about yourself, and it's hard to do. We're brought up in a society where it's all me, me, me.

You know, the sun rises and sets on your posterior. Well, no, it doesn't. And you have to back off, I think, a bit and see that and understand that. And it gives you a different perspective, and I think that perspective is what you carry into those tense situations. Yeah. What would you say, what was his name again? Billy T? What would you say his name?

T-Han. Bill T-Han. Bill T-Han. Okay. So you said he was one of the most inspiring guys. Yeah, he was one. There's been many. Been many.

What would you say is the most courageous moment that you witnessed for yourself and for someone else just around you where you're like, wow, that moment of extreme i'm sure every moment is that but there there have been so many lewis i mean i've seen i've seen young guys um get up guys that i thought were absolute duds i mean this clown whoever he is he's dead tomorrow And he isn't because he'll come right out of his socks. When the chips are absolutely down, here he goes. You know, he's this 95-pound featherweight that, you know, you think, oh, he's useless. And suddenly he steps up. Really?

And I've seen that 100 times. And when they do their magic, they're just magnificent when the guys get up and do that sort of thing. And what entertains me about it all is they're usually the guys you don't expect to do that. Really? Yeah. And I've seen the big guys, the horses. Get scared. Yeah.

I've seen them fall. So what that means is it's really the heart. It's really how much character you've got and how that's been developed. The hardships you've endured that make you that rock-solid character when the time comes. Gosh. What do you think is more important, emotional strength or physical strength? Clearly emotional strength. You have to have it.

You can get by without a great deal of physical strength. Usually if you're smart. Because anyone with a gun, you know. Yeah. And if you're smart, you don't, and you don't have a lot of physical strength, you don't pursue tasks or trades that require that sort of thing. But every task or trade requires emotional strength. You've got to be able to face hardship and you've got to be able to back off from that hardship and say, look, nobody's going to get killed, but I have to make the right decision and I have to be brave and I have to be strong. There's other people that may be depending on you. And that's what you have to

look at. The hell with you. Think about your wife or your girlfriend or your brother or your sister or your mom or your dad. Those folks are depending on you. And if you weenie out, there it is. You got to step up and have that emotional strength. Right. As someone who was in the military for so long, was it hard moving from being a soldier to being an actor for you? Was it a challenge? No.

Or was this like, this is so easy? Well, the answer is, look, leading is in many cases teaching, whether it's by example or whether it's formal instruction. You're responsible for motivating other people and getting them to do something they might otherwise not do and want to do it. And I always thought of the teachers who did that for me and the coaches who did that for me. And I thought, you know, what they're doing is they're standing up there and they're performing. That's a performance. And I put that together.

And I was always a great teacher in the Marine Corps because I understood that. I understood that in order to grab you by the stacking swivel and make you pay attention and make you like what you're hearing, I have to bring a smile to your face. You have to say, you know what? This guy's an idiot, maybe, but he's fun and I'm learning whatever the hell he's telling me. I'm entertained. Yeah. And so I kind of applied that. And I think I had a grounding as an actor from that sort of experience. So when people decided, you know, they wanted me to go in front of the camera, I said, well, wait a minute. I'm not sure. These guys have all been to film school and they've all been to, you know, I'm just me. And the neat thing was that that's really all they wanted me to be.

They weren't asking me to play the homosexual hairdresser or anything like that. You know, they wanted me to be the guy I am. So I ended up as the most typecast guy in Hollywood, and that's fine. And, you know, I've often thought I wanted to – I've had a few roles that have stretched me out of that, out of that comfort zone. But most directors say, oh, get me that guy, that white-haired military guy, you know, and have him do this. And so the roles have come very easily to me.

Occasionally I'll get one that's a stretch, and I love to do comedy and that sort of thing. I've got a great sense of humor, or a sense of irony anyway. And so I look for those roles that take me out of typical typecasting, but it hasn't been hard for me, no. Now, today there's a lot more women who are joining the military, right? Yeah. What is that like?

And did you experience that when you were there with a lot of women coming through? Then or no? When did it start happening? Yeah. I always, in most of the units that I had, there were women there, and they were good, solid gals. How do you experience that handling, you know, men and women in combat and in military? Well, you don't have them in, I didn't have them in combat. I've had them in training.

And you have to approach men and women differently. And that has to do with how we're socialized. Yes. Women have different buttons that you need to push to get them to do what you want to do what are those men do well you can you can make a certain emotional appeal to them that they'll they will assimilate more easily than a man will at least men that are normally socialized as we we understand it. In general, yeah. Yeah. The thing that bothers me and has always bothered me, and I think will continue to bother me until we wake up, both in the military and in society in general, is, look, I'm all for equality and I'm all for women being given every opportunity to do everything they're

capable of doing. But we ignore the 800-pound gorilla in the room. And that is that if you take the military, for instance, we've got teenagers, essentially, men and women, with raging hormones, and we put them together in a confined situation, we expect nothing is going to happen. Right. Wrong answer. It's going to happen. And that induces...

Sexually, you mean? Yeah. Yes. Romantically, even, if there's no sexual component to it. And that induces tension. Right. And if you're in the military, that induced tension can be dangerous and it can be harmful. Look, and I guess that gets back to what I was talking to you a little earlier about.

We have roles and missions in society, and we have to eventually come to a decision about what those roles and missions need to be. Now, I'm quite happy with the standard roles for men and the standard roles for women. But if we're going to shuffle the deck and mix the cards, then we better pay attention to that 800-pound gorilla because he's there. Yeah. And, you know, unless something happens to the human race, he's going to be there. This is a fascinating topic, and I'm trying to figure out where I want to really dive in with you on this because you have so much experience in this.

I'm first curious about your emotional experience. Being in the military, did you feel like you were able to express yourself emotionally in any way, or did you feel like you have to hold back? You know, not in combat, but just in general. Or did you feel like you weren't allowed to express certain things, how you were feeling or fears or cry? Or was there anything that you felt like you had to hold back on? Well, yes, certainly there was. Is overt displays, are overt displays of emotion applauded in the military?

No, they're not. Are they there? Yeah, they are. Sure, they are. We're human beings, and we have an emotional side. And those emotions are going to come out in certain instances. Do you have to be guarded about it? Yeah, you do.

instances. Do you have to be guarded about it? Yeah, you do. And I think the more you get into a confined situation like the military, the harder it becomes because those emotions are in there, and they're boiling. And you want to. You've got to do something with it, right? Yeah. It can be anger. It can be sorrow. It can be any of the gamut of human emotions. But you've got to express them guardedly. What do you mean by that? Well, you can't become a blubbering mass on the ground and lay there and kick your feet and say, I'm unhappy. That's not going to work. And it shouldn't work. That's unmanly.

Right. Okay. And it's round on and it should be. What about women expressing that? Same thing. Yeah. If they're in a confined military environment, a very structured military environment or a very structured business environment for that matter, I don't think becoming a blubbering mess and, you know. In that setting.

Yeah. And sitting there crying and, there crying and being overly emotional. I think that's counterproductive. What is productive for people when they're going through extreme sadness or guilt or anger that their best friend just got killed or something happened that is unfair or whatever they're feeling? What is a good situation for them to express that in the military setting? Well, you have to call on an inner strength, Lewis. You have to say, I'm destroyed here. I'm terribly sad.

Something has happened that is just ripping the hell out of my emotions. But is it productive at this point for me to just sit here with my face in my hands and cry? Or is it more productive? And is it a better mark of character if I'm able to deal with this, if I'm able to keep my emotions in check? Now, in check doesn't necessarily— That's right. Manageable. Not expressing yourself.

You've got to hold on. Yes. You're not going to go throw yourself off of balconies. Rightageable. Not expressing yourself. You've got to hold on. Yes. You know, you're not going to go throw yourself off of balconies. Right, right. You're still expressing them in some way, but not letting fully go. Gotcha. And I think human beings recognize that. I mean, we all have these emotions.

And they will recognize that you're dealing with them and that you're holding them. And they'll have empathy. I think there's a lot more empathy than we give people credit for. Really? I mean, I can tell if you're angry or if you're sad, and I'll know what not to say. I won't go in there and dig around and push that button because I know what you're dealing with,

and I respect you for dealing with it in a proper manner and dealing with it internally. And so how do you have compassion for someone or how did you during those experiences? Would you, was there physical affection? Was there just talking to them? Yeah, many times. Sometimes you just reach over and touch a guy and all it means is I'm here and I understand and I'm feeling what you're feeling, pal. But we got to deal with this.

That's sometimes it's all it's required. Sometimes it's a look. You're about to embark on something that's dangerous or something that's that that you fear, something that's making you antsy, something is making you nervous. And you look at another person, you just nod. And that's that empathy, that human empathy. I know what you're feeling. I know what you're feeling. I know what you're going through. I'm here too. Let's do it. What was it like for you transitioning out? Were you able to, do you feel like you're able to open up your emotions more?

Did you kind of keep the same managing process of emotions from being in the military to now out of it? I was so well-trained that it was difficult for me. It's difficult for me as an actor when someone says, you know, I need a big show of emotion here. I say, well, that's not me. I wouldn't do that. But on the other hand, this guy's just hired me to do that, so I have to find a way to do it. And it has to do with touching baggage. We've all had horrible things that happen to us in our life.

You know, losing a parent or losing a spouse or, hell, losing your dog. You know, these painful scar us emotionally and and they're and they're painful so if if i'm in that situation that's what i do i take a minute and i go to that place where that pain was and i try to remember that and it if you're lucky it comes through your eyes and and will see, at least they'll see enough to become empathetic. Okay, I know what he's feeling. And that's about all I can do. That's it, huh? Wow. What do you feel like your life would be like if you didn't go in the military? I have no idea. I would probably be down on Skid Row somewhere. I don't know.

um, you know, down on skid row somewhere. I don't know. Um, I haven't, my life has been so eventful and so lucky and that I haven't really contemplated that question. Uh, I'm, I'm kind of afraid to, because I have no idea what would have happened. Uh, I don't think it probably would have been good. would have happened. I don't think it probably would have been good. Okay. What was the, was there a moment in combat where you felt like I may not make it out of this or this, you know, this is, this might be it. Like, this is the dumbest decision we're about to make right now. Like, I don't know if we should do this, but we're told to, so we're going to go in. Who knows? It's a, you know, 50,50 chance. I think everybody that's been in combat has felt that. Really? Oh, yeah.

Nothing seems real smart when you're getting shot at. Let's go back, guys. Wait a minute. Maybe we should go back to the bunker. I think I've felt that many times, Lewis. I think anybody that's been in combat has felt that. Lewis. I think anybody that's been in combat has felt that. You know, when that round snaps by your ear and it's so close you can actually hear it break the sound barrier.

Or you get hit and you suddenly look down and you're bleeding and, oh my God, I'm still alive. You know, those are moments that imprint deeply. Like a foot over could have been over. Oh, yeah. Closer than that, you know, inches. And you realize that, you know, you're you're playing for keeps here. This is our game. There's no take two here. Wow. So you you feel those things.

And I think that goes back to the business of conquering the fear that we talked about. The fear is there, but you have to manage it. You know, you have to say, OK doesn't see me, or I can kill him and reduce the chance that he'll get a second shot. And that's what you do if you've got it under control. How many times were you shot? Well, if you include shrapnel and various things from high explosives, three times. Three times. Actually, more than that, probably four or five. But three Purple Hearts for being injured.

Yeah. Those are the ones where they have to bandage you up and haul you out. Wow. What was the worst one? Oh, I don't know. I got hit in the head pretty badly. There was a round that hit the rim of my helmet and split and got me up on the eye. And that one was dice that was dicey.

Because you had a helmet on. Well, yeah. You know, you think you're going to lose your eye. Right. But, you know, in the end, I think the fact that I survived them is really what gets down to it. I mean, you were so happy that you've survived that the injury doesn't mean that much. You know, that comes later.

You're just so grateful you're alive. Yeah, right. Wow. Why do you think you were, you know, didn't die? You know, all these different experiences. I'm assuming there was a number of people around you that you went through the years that didn't make it. Why do you think your life was spared?

You know, that's one question that I do contemplate every once in a while. And I like to contemplate it because it leads me to celebrate the fact that I did make it and that I have succeeded. I've succeeded to an extent that a lot of people don't. I've succeeded to an extent that a lot of people don't. I've had a really good life, a really rich life, and got to do wonderful, weird things. My life has been anything but humdrum. And I think back on those occasions when I got hurt or when I got hit or when I got terribly disappointed by the set and the other sort of thing. And again, that's backing off and taking a look at perspective, you know, and say, why am I worried about that?

You know, yeah, I got nicked a little bit here. I got whacked, but look what happened. I don't know why, you know, the Lord chose me to be the guy who makes it here, but he did, and there you go. And I think those are things that help you put life in context. You know, you know that life can be cheap. And you know that your success is something that you paid for. You went a long, hard road. And I think that makes you, if you're smart, it makes you appreciate what you've got.

Of course. What was it like with, did you have a girlfriend when you were in combat in Vietnam or were you married? And what was that like? Was it challenging? Well, it was devastating. It cost me that marriage, which probably in the end was a good thing because neither one of us were old enough or mature enough to really make much out of it. Yeah. The whole business of going home to the girlfriend and the hearth and so on and so forth, that's on your mind. And that's an added pressure.

It's just one of the things you have to deal with. Wow. How has the military, I guess, shaped you or affected you in relationships after the military? I mean, have you been able to build positive relationships? Yeah, it's smartened me up. You know, I went through a couple of marriages. And some of them ended because I was an idiot, and some of them ended because it just wasn't right. And then eventually, you get old enough, and I think your judgment matures,

and you find the right person, and that person has such great similarities. You're so simpatico with that person that it's a natural fit, and it works out. It has for me. That's good. Yeah. So now you've found a good fit. Oh, yeah. That's great.

My wife's a great gal. Okay, awesome. If you could go back and talk to your 20-year-old self is me right now. Yeah. And you could tell him about what it means to be a man. And knowing everything that you did from stuff in the military with other guys to relationships you had with people to whatever happened, what would you tell him about being a man? What does it mean?

happened, what would you tell him about being a man? What does it mean? And if you can kind of give him your list or definition or speech that would inspire him to grow up and maybe change some of the things that you didn't do, what would you say? Well, it would be a very long conversation. Okay. And it would be one-sided. Sure. He'd listen, I'd talk. Okay. Well, I'm listening. Okay. Well, I'm listening. But I think I'd say this. You know, look, you have a role in life. That role has been given to you because you were born with a certain set of genitals and a certain emotional makeup. There's nothing you can do about that.

That's a good thing. Don't fool with it. And you're growing up in a society that has a certain Judeo-Christian ethic. That ethic has been good for all societies who've adopted it. So play your role. Your role is to be a provider, a defender, a teacher, and your role is to step up in the hard times. Now, that's going to take some doing. It's going to take some thinking. It's going to take some courage. But you need to do it. And if you will do it in the hardest of times, your life will be rewarding.

No matter how many troubles you go through, no matter how many hard times, no matter how many emotional pits you fall into, if you'll step up and remember that you have this role and that you must perform in that role, your life will be rewarding. And don't let anything pull you off that track. Okay. Because there are people out there who will try to do that. All you've got to do is look around at our society today, the roles of men and women. They're confused right now.

And I think that leads to a certain chaos in our society. Og had to crawl out of the cave and go kill the woolly mammoth to feed little Mrs. Og and all the little Ogs who were back in the cave back there. Those roles are okay. That's all right. And you have that role. You are the guy who goes out and kills the woolly mammoth. What if that role doesn't, uh, that doesn't resonate with someone? What if there's a, you know, a young man growing up who's like, that doesn't feel right to me, or I don't feel like that's who I am. I would say you're doing way too damn much feeling. Okay. Okay. And not enough

thinking. Okay. Look, I'm not, I'm not saying that you have to, you have to be the guy who sharpens the stick and stabs the woolly mammoth. There are other things to do. But you can't simply back away from your role and mission in society. What about Mrs. Person who comes into your life? What's that relationship going to be? Is there a structure for that relationship? Well, there should be, especially if there are children that come into it.

So you're saying if the roles are confusing, then it's going to be hard to have structure. Yeah, it is. More challenges, more problems. Well, the lack of structure breeds chaos. And if you want chaos, have at it. But your life is not going to be rewarding. Your life is going to be chaos. So structure creates more harmony. Structure is important to human beings.

Especially in the military, I'm assuming, without structure. Yeah, of course. But it's important outside the military. It's important in life that we have certain structures, that we have certain roles and missions. And why we fight those is beyond me. It really is beyond me. Why do you think people are fighting it so much more now today than ever? I'm hoping that it's a knee jerk. Look, as a society, we've made a lot of mistakes and they're easy to pinpoint. Slavery is one. The lack of equal opportunity for females in our society, that's another one. The denigration of females in our society by males in our society.

These are things that we've done badly. And because we've done them badly, I think over the years, over the decades, there's now a knee jerk. And that threatens to take us over a precipice that we should be fearful of. I just, I think that's the sort of thing that creates chaos in a society, and it shouldn't. chaos in a society, and it shouldn't. What would you say if you were going back to your 20-year-old self and he was asking you, you know, when I get married, what should my role be in a marriage? Like, how should I be there for my wife? How should I show up in general in hard times and crazy times when she's actually like this?

How should I show up when I'm uncertain? How should I show up? What would you say just for general? Well, I think your role should be as a provider. I think your role should be as helpmate. Notice I don't say dominator. I said helpmate. Your role should be as an empath. You have to understand what's going on. And that's difficult. That's a hard thing because we're not wired the same way. If we were wired the same way, okay, but we're not. Nor are we socialized in the same fashion.

And so I think you have to be a spouse. And that includes being a provider, a helpmate, an understanding partner. But you still have a certain role that demands you to step up and be a man. Yeah, I'm hearing the common theme of the roles. Yeah. Okay.

Roles and missions. I mean, it's the old military thing. We have a role in life to play, and the mission is to make that life productive and make that life something more than just me and myself. Right. Hmm. This is fascinating stuff to me. stuff to me. I'm curious about the things that men hide behind, the emotions that they hide behind, the masks that they hide behind in the military. Do you feel like there was a place for you to communicate certain things ever? Or did you feel like you always had to hide behind and manage

these emotions and only just get the look or the touch or the, you know, the, whatever it was, you know, a little bit here and there was, or was there ever a place to really show what express what you're truly feeling? I think, I think you develop if you're a half ass good person. Uh, I think you develop friends. I think you develop, you develop close friends behind the scenes. You're able. Yeah. And, and I've, you know, you go and have a beer friends. Behind the scenes, you're able to. Yeah.

And I've, you know, you go and have a beer and you say, hey, you know, this is really screwing me up here. Gotcha. And he says, yeah, I get it. And you talk about it. And there's no expectation between you. That's what a friend really is. He's not demanding of you to feel one way or feel another way. He's your pal. He's your buddy.

Or she is. And you can just say, look, this has got me up against the rails here. I don't know what I'm doing. And they're not going to say, well, then you're clearly a weenie. Suck it up. Yeah. You know, they're going to say, okay, I got it. You know, and that's all you really need.

And do they coach? Do they have any training on this? Because I'm assuming that this is a challenging thing for people. I don't think so. I think it's a human thing. And I think it transcends the military structure. You make very, very close friends. When you train with the men extremists, when you serve with the men extremists, you become very close.

And sometimes you don't even need all the conversation. You know, the conversation is superfluous. You just don't understand each other. It's extraneous. Yeah, you just go. I feel you. And you get it. I feel you.

Okay. Okay. Final few questions for you. What's your definition now of masculinity? What do you think the definition is? I suppose masculinity is a task that falls upon those of us who have a certain number of chromosomes. of us who have a certain number of chromosomes. And I think it is our task to recognize that and recognize its value.

Not beat our chests and scream and yell and say, you know, we are the conquerors of the world, but to understand that we have certain responsibilities that come along with our sex. And to preserve those roles within our society to avoid chaos. That's as succinct as I can be. What would you say is your definition of feminine? Well, feminine to me is always going to mean nurturing. It's always going to mean the instinct to mother, the instinct to provide for the continuity of our society. And that's a wonderful thing. That's a mission that if you're a smart man, you envy.

The business of bearing a child, the business and all the physical complications therein involved. But the business of nurturing that child, the business, because mothers, all of our mothers, I think, good, bad or indifferent, have a massive imprint on their children. It's always mom that you seem to remember. I mean, dad was this, but then there's mom. And it's that nurturing spirit that's wired into females, or most females, most that I've met, and I've met a bunch, that I think makes them very special creatures and enviable in a society. Yeah. Do you feel like men should embody feminine qualities or feminine energy ever in any situations

or should it be strictly masculine only? Listen, I wish that I had half of the energy that I've seen in some women. It's amazing. And it's to be admired. I don't know. Can we, can males ever completely emulate that? I don't know that they should want to. I think there's a yin and a yang. And I think it's wonderful when that yin and yang comes together because they tend to make a great whole, a very strong structure, a very strong relationship. I think you may work and fail and work and fail and work and fail to find that yin and yang. But when you do, you should recognize it and understand that there's the other half.

There's the part that's missing. And you should celebrate that. That's cool. That's cool. Okay. Final few questions for you. What are you most grateful for in your life recently? Well, I'm grateful that I've had 25 years of success in show business.

I mean, that's good lord. That's a pretty long time. Yeah. And if you go back further than that, I'm grateful I survived some of the dumb ass things I did in my life. But I'm very grateful lately since I've been getting old and long in the tooth. I'm grateful that I've had an influence on people's lives. I mean, I love it when the actors I've trained, you know, always want to talk to me and they call me at two o'clock in the morning, half drunk and want to know what to do because they've had an argument with their girlfriend. Look, that's irritating. But it says to me that

I've influenced their lives in some way, that I've helped, that I've gotten away from myself and worried about other people and helped them maybe get a little grip on what they do in life. So I think, you know, I was thinking about the other day that there was a reporter for Daily Variety or some showbiz paper that or some showbiz publication that was doing a story on me after I think it was after Platoon, in fact. And at the end of the story, it said that, well, if nothing else, Dale Dye has changed the way Hollywood makes war movies. And I've always thought, you know, that that may be a great epitaph, And I've always thought, you know, that may be a great epitaph because I've been able to touch so many people in my life, both in uniform and out of uniform, and make a kind of a difference in the way they see things. I've had young actors call me and say that after going through the training that I put them through and the education that I gave them in the time that I was with them, that their entire perspective on life changed.

And that's pretty heady stuff. I mean, so I guess what really pleases me is that I've lived a life that has had a positive effect on some folks, as cliche as that sounds. I think that's really the deal. That's cool. And do you put the actors through boot camps yourself or some type of training? Oh, yeah. What's it like?

It's tough. How long is it? It is compressed. Well, it differs. Okay. It depends on how much time the producers will give me. Right, right, right. And it's isolated, and there's no phones, no agents, no nothing.

You live in a hole in the ground, and you eat what I give you if you don't piss me off that day. And then if you do, you don't eat. Wow. And it's very, very rugged physically. I'm going to grind you down to the lowest common denominator so that I can then begin teaching. So all that's on your mind is how you survived that white-haired demon. S.O.B. Yeah, yeah. And then uh i've got you i can teach you i can show you that there is something you know young actors uh and it's it's a little bit sad uh young actors because of the nature of what they're

trying to do uh they grow up thinking that the sun rises and sets on their butt. I mean, it's all about me, me, me, me, me. How's my hair and how many lines have I got in this scene? And that's the antithesis of the way we think in the military, the absolute opposite. So I try to give them a little different perspective that it's not all about you, pal. It's about what this project, this mission that we're doing. And you need to see it in that perspective. Yeah, it's bigger than you. Are you allowed to share some of the actors that you've put through the boot camps?

Oh, you've, you know. Who are some of the big names? Oh, there's Tom Cruise and Tom Berringer and Tommy Lee Jones and Sam Jackson. You put them all through training? Yeah. Some of them days or weeks? Yeah. Depends.

I mean, if you look at Platoon, when we did that back in 1985, I guess, we had 33 actors in the field. You never would have known who Charlie Sheen was. You never would have known who Tom Berenger was. You never would have known who Willem Dafoe was. You know, what I think what I give them stands at roles differently, roles that they're offered. They often call me when they're, you know, if the young actors are still auditioning for things and who aren't big stars yet, you know, they'll call me and say, Skipper, how should I do this and how should I do that? And, you know, I try to provide some information if I can, if I've got the context. And those things lead me to believe that what I've been able to do with them is valuable.

That's cool. That's really powerful. This is a question I ask at the end for everyone. It's called the three truths. Okay. The three truths. So let's say it's the last day for you many years from now. Yeah.

And you get to write down on a piece of paper the three things you know to be true about everything in your life that you've experienced. And all the things you've gone through, crazy, good, bad. Three final things that you would share your message to the world. What would those three truths be? Life is hard, but it's also good. Stick with it and don't give up. Love bigger than you hate and never stick anything larger than your elbow in your ear

okay cool um i want to take a moment before i ask the final question i want to take a moment to acknowledge you well thanks for your service incredible service on all walks of life for serving, obviously, this country for many years at the highest level, but also serving so many people to get a real depiction of what it was like. Because we'll never fully know unless we're there. That's the reason I do it, Lewis. We'll never know. I want you to get some taste of what those young men and women are going

through for you and for this country. And you're welcome because you're worth it. I appreciate that. Yeah. Well, thank you. And I want to acknowledge you for all that you've done. So it means a lot to me. Before I ask the final question, where can we connect with you personally online or the websites? Are you on social media? Sure. Yeah.

I've been interested. I guess I can ramble a bit here. You know, there aren't always war movies for us to do. So I've expanded my company. We've done things like music which has just gone great guns now. And it's designed to tell military stories and publish military books so that otherwise folks wouldn't find any place else. The agenda that I had when I started all this 25 years ago was simply to let people like you who don't have the experience get a little look at who those men and women in uniform are electronic media or showbiz, movies and television. I've done everything I can to advance that agenda. And I can't remember what your original question was. The website. The website. Yeah.

Which is warriorsinc, I-N-C, warriorsincorporated.com, and Warriors Publishing Group. And you can find all this stuff there. Yeah, all the books are up there. You have like 20, 30 books up there. So, yeah, it's cool. And are you on social media too or no? Yes, I'm on – you know, I have yet to tweet. Okay.

Yeah, it's just I don't like the word. All right. It sounds strange to me. Okay. Why am I tweeting? I don't want to tweet. Okay. So, anyway. It's the best way to – But I'm on Facebook. Okay, Why am I tweeting? I don't want to tweet. Okay. So anyway.

So best way to what? Email you on your website. But I'm on Facebook. Okay, cool. And that sort of thing. Okay, awesome. We'll have it all linked up for everyone on the show notes here. They could have called it anything but tweet.

Could have called it chat or something, right? Yeah, something. Anyway. Okay. Final question for you. Sure. Is what is your definition of greatness? Final question for you is what is your definition of greatness?

I think greatness is living a life that's not so self-centered and going through life with the understanding that you are your brother's keeper. And you do have an obligation to help when and where you can and you should go out of your way to do that if you if you can just do those things you're great dale thank you so much for sure appreciate it my pleasure thank you all so very much for listening and for connecting and sharing this episode out if you haven't shared it yet, please do. LewisHowes.com slash 364 or just click on the share button on the podcast app or right on the website. Also, check out the full video interview back on the show notes as well. Let me know what you guys thought.

I want to get your feedback. For me, I thrive off of hearing your comments and hearing what happened for you, what opened up for you, what you learned about this. Did you agree with Captain Dale Dye on his message and some of his points? Or do you disagree? Let me know. Share with me so I can feel it out and hear what you have to say. I'm all about hearing what you have to say. So we've got some big interviews coming up, massive ones.

I am super pumped about each and every guest and the perspective they bring. We do this every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So if this is your first time here, then thank you and congratulations. Let me know if this is your first episode over on Twitter and subscribe to the podcast over on iTunes. I am so blessed and grateful to be able to interview these incredibly inspiring guests, and I couldn't do it without you. So thank you very much for all that you do to show up every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday when we release these episodes. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music