The School of Greatness - 365 Sophia Amoruso: From Depressed, ADD and a Thief to Fashion Icon #GIRLBOSS

Episode Date: August 10, 2016

"To not make everything an equal priority takes a lot of maturity." - Sophia Amoruso If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/365

This is episode number 365 with New York Times best-selling author, Sophia Amoruso. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome, everyone. I am in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil right now watching the Olympics, having an incredible time, and I'm so amazed at the greatness that I'm witnessing every single day.

I mean, these athletes are coming from all over the world to fight for their dream and it's just so inspiring for me to watch every single day. I'm running around the city, I'm watching all the different events, the Olympic Park, on the beach, going everywhere and just having a great time, meeting people, connecting with the people of Brazil and really learning about this culture in this city. It's amazing. But greatness is something that is a journey.

You know, this is something that these athletes have been pursuing their entire lives. It didn't just happen overnight for them. They didn't just train a little bit and decide to show up in the Olympics and win a medal. No, this has been something they have been focusing on, visualizing, experiencing, going through extreme physical and emotional and mental pain for years and years and years to get here. And they've had incredible coaches and mentors and teachers and other athletes to lift them up and support them in getting to their dreams. And it's all about the journey to greatness, but you've got to have the skills, you've

got to have the tools, you've got to have the mindset, and that's what this podcast is all about. It's about bringing you individuals who can share their stories about how they got there to give you some of those tools, those skills, that mindset approach to reaching greatness in your life. Now, some of you don't want to be Olympic skills, that mindset approach to reaching greatness in your life. Now, some of you don't want to be Olympic athletes and that's fine, but some of you have dreams in your life.

Whatever dreams they may be, they're your dreams and they're very important because you're important. And our guest today, she's an incredible individual and I talk about how I first learned about her when we dive into the interview. Sofia Amoruso is the founder and owner of Nasty Gal, which is the fastest growing online retailer in the country. And at 30 years young, Sofia has become one of the most prominent figures in retail and a cultural icon who has worked from the ground up and landed on top of a fashion empire that has brought in over $100 million in revenue.

She has also revolutionized marketing with a business built almost entirely on unpaid social media from day one. Today, drawing millions of visitors back to the Nasty Gal site every month. She's also a New York Times bestselling author of Girlboss. She's the CEO, creative director, and host of Girlboss Radio Podcast. I've really been enjoying connecting with Sophia and getting to learn more about her, and I'm just amazed at everything she's built and who she is as a human. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Sophia Amoruso.

Welcome, everyone, back to the School of Greatness podcast. I'm here with Sophia Amoruso. Good to see you. High five from the house. How are you doing? Good. We're very excited to have you on. We connected through Chase Jarvis. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we were just in the same room at the same time and it was like, oh, hey. I was like, hey, you're cool. Let's have you on. And then we had sushi. We had sushi at Sugarfish and we talked about internet marketing.

Totally. And how to build online courses and brands and funnels. Yeah. Are you still in that, figuring on that out? A little bit. I think that's like a later phase. Yeah. I think I'm still like audience developing.

You've got so much going on right now though. You've got this book, which is incredible, Girlboss, which has sold how many copies now? Over 300,000. 300,000. That's like top 1% of 1% of all books probably. It's amazing. I don't know. Yeah.

So congratulations. Thank you. For all the ladies especially, make sure to check this book out, Girlboss, hashtag Girlboss. Dudes can check it out too. They tweet me and they're like – It's funny. I thought this book was for girls and it's like I don't really talk about being a girl that much in it. It's really funny though.

There's some good stuff in here. So make sure to check this book out. You also have a new book coming out called – I have a book coming out October 4th called Nasty Galaxy. It's a totally different book, but it's the spirit of Girlboss. It's still super inspiring, really visual. totally different book, but it's a spirit of girl boss. It's still super inspiring. Um, really visual. So it's like 10 by 10 hardcover coffee table, linen cover, just super beautiful.

Um, and it has like inspirational quotes and essays by me and Q and A's with different inspiring women. And Courtney love wrote the forward and, um, you know, uh, a tour of my house. Did I already say that? No, that's cool. And you live in Hollywood. I live in Los Angeles, Los Angeles. I live in different places. I live generally in Hollywood. Yeah. Cool.

I think I can say that. There you go. We met near there, right? We met totally. We met a sugar fish near there. Yeah. And, um,

the book is coming out in October, correct? October 4th. You can preorder it at nastygal.com slash book. There you go. See a cool trailer view. And you also have a show coming out. It's next year.

So it's currently in development. They've been shooting it for a few months now. They're going to be up in San Francisco shooting it starting, I think, next week. And that's called Girlboss. Insane. And it's going to be on Netflix. And it's based on my story. It's based on your life.

Yeah. Your name is the character's name, right? Yeah. First name, last name, or is it just the first name? Just the first name. What's the last name? I don't think I'm allowed to say that. Okay.

Gotcha. I don't know what I can. Whatever's out there, I can basically say. Gotcha. I don't know. Netflix is a beast. Gotcha. That's cool.

I just want to be good. But you have so many amazing things going on. Yeah. And you started a company called Nasty Gal, which I was just in Santa Monica. Oh, yeah. I was going to text you an image walking in your store. Oh, cool. It's huge.

It was amazing. Thanks. On the promenade right there. Yeah. Yeah. So you started this company. Started Nasty Gals, an eBay store, 10 years ago. 10 years ago.

10 in November. It's been 10. That's incredible growth in 10 years. It's a lot. But you start when you're 22. You can only hope you grow a whole lot between 22 and 32. Was that always a dream for you to start like this retail clothing? No, I didn't really, I didn't know what my dream was. I wanted to be a photographer, but I couldn't like get over having to like make things up about why my work was important. I just

really enjoyed taking pictures and I thought it was important. There's a whole like, you know, rigmarole around, you know, galleries and the art world. And I just, I got like a whiff of that and I just felt like I couldn't hack it. Probably really couldn't. Um, I mean maybe today I have like the social graces or network, but I don't, I'm not planning on becoming a fine artist anytime soon. Um, I, I was 22. I was working in the lobby of an art school because I needed to get health insurance because I had a hernia. And that was a time when you couldn't get health insurance if you had a preexisting condition.

I guess it's totally different now. But I had to go get a job through an employer because you had to get group insurance. And then they have to take you if you have cancer or AIDS or a hernia. Wow. So that's why I got my last job and I was working in the lobby of an art school in San Francisco checking student IDs. Um, I was like a, like a glorified, uh, like security guard, but my title was campus safety host. Okay. And I just sat behind this desk. 21?

22. Yeah. So I dropped out of community college, decided I wasn't going to go to art school, decided to work at one because I needed to get my hernia fixed and was just checking IDs in the lobby. That's it, all day?

That's all I did. I just sat there. My title was campus safety host. Uh-huh. Anyway, yeah. It was like $13 an hour maybe and even that kind of

seems like a lot now, but- It's not bad 10 years ago. No, right. Yeah. Um, and, and I was just, I had time to dick around on the internet and I was getting friend requests from eBay sellers who were trying to promote their vintage eBay stores to me. And I checked it out and realized, holy crap, like I know where to, how to, where to find this vintage. These girls are just selling stuff that I know how to find for $8. People are bidding on it. The customer is determining the price.

For a couple hundred bucks or whatever? Yeah, $80, $200 for stuff that I knew where to find it, like a goodwill. So I was like, I have a laptop. I've got a digital camera. Actually, I didn't even have a laptop at that time. I think I started the store on like my dome iMac. Sure. That was like a graduation gift when I actually did graduate high school.

I graduated something. I feel like a toddler in this chair. Too short. There you go. Nice. There you go. So you started taking photos. So I got my hernia fixed.

Oh, that's good. I decided to give this eBay thing a shot. Were you double dipping and working at the desk while you were working? No. No. Like emailing people back on eBay? I should have. I should have.

But no, I was just like, F this job. I'm going to get my hernia fixed. I'm going to go like- And then get out. Yeah. Go just buy a pile of stuff and put it on eBay and see what happens. And that's what you did. And that's what I did.

I bought eBay for dummies. No way. Yeah. I think I bought another book called tax loopholes for eBay sellers actually. Okay. Uh, which I never read cause I just like hired an accountant, but, uh, yeah. So I started taking pictures of stuff, found models on my space, made my own, my space page, figured out how to promote it. it, was really engaged, really active with anyone who would accept my friend request and responded to every question on every image that I would post, every item that I had for sale. I would post a bulletin. You know, it was MySpace.

Like, I feel so old talking about MySpace. I was on MySpace. How old are you? 33. Okay, well, I'm 32. Yeah, So same. It's big. Post a blog and a bulletin and then you'd upload all the photos and then there'd be

like a piece of fire on MySpace that was like, so-and-so has 11 new photos. And then people would go, you know, see what- Check it out and go bid on it. I was sending traffic directly from MySpace to eBay and realized at a certain point, you know, and I was doing really well on eBay at a certain point. I was like, wait, why am I giving all my traffic away to this place where people can just comparison shop?

Why wouldn't I? With other people's stuff. Yeah. So like anytime you list something on eBay, it'll say like other items you might like and it has like all your competitors underneath. Like why would you, you know, at that point starting a website was a lot more difficult than it is today. There was no Squarespace. It was like a shopping cart called Interspire out of Australia and had

a friend from high school put it together. But yeah, I was like, why am I giving all of my great customers and all my marketing efforts away to someone else? So I launched the website. Nasty Gal. all my marketing efforts away to someone else. So you built a site, launch the website, nasty gal, nasty gal. It was actually nasty gal, vintage.com. Then it was shop nasty gal.com. And then I finally bought nasty gal.

How much about nasty gal.com for eight grand. That's not bad from nevermind. Okay. Uh, I could imagine. Yeah. Um, so,

uh, not while I'm in the room. Um, um, uh, not while I'm in the room. Um, um, yeah, what was this? When was this? I launched the website in mid 2008,

June 13th, 2008 actually. And it was a Friday and the website just like sold out instantly. Really? I mean all your inventory, all the inventory. So when you're a need, but you have 10 days to let stuff just sit there.

And your auctions go up, and it sits there, and people bid on it. And then you're like, cool, I don't have to ship anything for 10 days. I know when all my orders are coming in, you launch a website, and you have one-of-a-kind items. They expect they'll like. People are like, oh, my God, I have to get it now. It sold out super fast. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm drowning in orders. How do I handle this? I just got, I handled all the orders and I just ended up sick for like two weeks

straight after that. But kept having to stock the store and it was just like a totally different flywheel of, of, of work. Um, that was when I brought on my first employee. Really? Yeah. So you were doing it all yourself first. Yeah. And then you brought your first person on. For like the first year and a half.

So 2008, you had your first employee. Yeah. And how many employees are there now? Do you know? A few hundred. A few hundred. Always fluctuating. Yeah.

So we have a team in Kentucky that does fulfillment, customer care. And then in LA, we have design, production, planning, merchandising, finance, marketing, Advertising, finance, marketing, photography, graphic design and art direction, the executive team, social media, our editorial team. I mean, it kind of goes on. It's a lot of people, yeah. It's running a lot of different businesses, a little bit. Different businesses? Well, when you have that many, you have to be an expert at marketing to have a brand.

That's true. To sell online, you have to be an expert at fulfillment. Traffic generation, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's how be an expert at fulfillment. Traffic generation. Yeah. I mean, that's how it is for everybody today. But yeah,

I feel like there's companies that just become like a marketing agency and that's like the only thing they have to know how to do almost. And then we have to like understand inventory

and turn and- Retail. Like, ah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Staging, right? Yeah, yeah. Like the creative. Absolutely. a lot. It's a lot. Staging, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Like the creative. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's been, it's been a lot of work, but it's been super fun. When you started the first year of this, did you think like, okay, I want to build this into this huge quarter of a billion dollar brand? No.

The first year, I never even knew that was possible. I mean, I didn't even really even consider it a business for a long time. You know, I was like, I've got an eBay store. It's just making you money to survive. Yeah. I mean, I kept the money in the business. I didn't like take it. I didn't want things at that time in my life. I didn't like need vacations. I was 22. I was just like happy to go like scoot around at a dive bar with my friends. And you know, I still do that once in a while, but it gets old at a certain point. Of course.

Um, yeah. So I just kept socking money away at a certain point. Uh, the company had saved, and I have a screenshot of this. I'd saved a million dollars cash in like, just like,

yeah, in profit. Uh, and then I had like, I think I had like eight grand to my name. Like I, you can see both the accounts. It's like corporate ink has to yell corporate accounts. And I had like eight grand to my name. Like you can see both the accounts. It's like corporate ink,

nasty yellow ink, corporate accounts and it's like $975,000 and then mine's like $8,000. I'm like, I don't know. Why would you pay yourself? I was, but I just didn't like,

I didn't really want stuff. I was so busy working. You know, when you find something that you love doing that much that is that rewarding and you can tweak out on it and people enjoy it and you realize that the better you do it, the more people engage and the more customers that you have and the more demand there is, there's nothing more exciting than that. Did you say tweak out on it?

Yeah. I mean, I've never done tweak or whatever. That's the way of it. I mean, I've never done tweak or whatever. You know, I don't even know what, you know. Yeah. That's the way of it. Yes. But I've seen people like do that and it's very descriptive. Now, I'm curious.

The thing that impresses me about you, I think I first heard about you is when you were on the cover of Entrepreneur Magazine. I think that was a couple of years ago. It was a while ago. That was maybe 2013, 2014. I can't remember. I don't remember. I remember you were like, who is this person? I've never heard of you. I've never heard of this company.

I mean, obviously, I'm not a girl that buys vintage clothes. No, it's fine. Yeah, unless you were into vintage. Right. And I was like, who is this girl? And then after that point, it's like I saw you everywhere. You were just on the cover of Forbes Magazine. I don't know if it's still out this month.

No. It was last month, right? It was last month I was on the cover of Forbes. It's crazy. You're like a press magnet. And I don't know if it's still out this month. No. It was last month, right? It was last month I was on the cover of Forbes. It's crazy. You're like a press magnet. And I don't understand. I'm curious how you've done it. Because obviously you've got to have a great company that you've built so you can talk about

that in your story. But you have tapped into something that most female entrepreneurs don't do. Yeah. I think the fact that I'm a community college dropout and have a history of petty theft that I published in my book, my story is different. I'm not proud of, you know, either of those things necessarily. I'd love to finish school at some point.

But, you know, I think a lot of the female leaders that, you know, we've had to look up to are really hyper-educated and work their way up the ladder. And there's less female entrepreneurs that have been highlighted. And I think that's really changed since, you know, I mean, Forbes was who broke my story, not on the cover. But in 2012, they did four pages. And that was like the first business feature ever on Nasty Gal. That's big. Yeah, it was amazing. But today, starting a business is so much easier.

I mean, there's still a huge disparity in women getting funded as entrepreneurs. But there's more and more of us. And that feels really different. But I feel like I was the first one to come out maybe. I don't know. Just be like, Hey guys. Leading the charge. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, I've under, I've learned a lot about marketing and publicity and the power of it. And I used to think it was dirty and it's important. It's important. I think it was dirty when you were doing it on my space or no, because I was like behind a computer, but there's something about like, you know, just your face being everywhere. Promoting yourself. Yeah.

But self-promotion. I was always promoting my business. Yeah. Yeah. That this exactly right. You know, our pose is almost similar. Right. Well, almost identical.

Yours is much more. I don't know. Girl bossy. I have a smaller waist. It's okay. You can say that. You know, it's interesting talking about book covers. I remember when I was writing the book, I was like, you know what? I don't want my face on

this cover. I want it to be like this. I don't know. I don't want it to be about me. I don't want it to be too promotional and self-centered. But to be honest- Your publisher was like, no. They're like, we have to. And then the more I do it, no one recognizes Malcolm Gladwell necessarily walking down the street. Maybe. Now that he's got his face out there for different things. But for his books, you wouldn't recognize him. And I think

it adds a lot of value when you build a personal branch. You can generate more speaking gigs. There's more credibility. People follow people. That's it. Not just like a cover. And people follow authors, but it's a tool. And if you're comfortable, I've gotten comfortable. And I'm still an introvert. Like I was totally wasted yesterday after not drunk, but just like, yeah, I did an all day shoot where I had to like pretend to use

an iPad. Like, I mean, I can't talk about it, but I was just like, you know, I don't know how actors do it. You know, I thought people were like, Oh, you work so hard. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm doing stuff. Pretending to do stuff is really hard. And it requires so much patience. And there's so many people telling you what to do and where to go and go do whatever. I'm just whatever. Anyway, when there's that many people demanding things in person, I kind of melt down.

And I felt that yesterday. I think I have a little bit of a hangover today actually, which is why it's nice that, you know, I've headphones on right now. It's like you're in a safe space. 500 people looking at us. That's it. That's it. I'm curious, um, without press or building your personal brand, do you think your company would do as well or be where it's at today if you weren't in the news as much as you are in the mainstream TV and magazines? I don't know. You know, you can never, I mean, in terms of my personal brand and girl boss, absolutely not with nasty gal. You know, I think the brand itself has always been strong outside of all of that press and it's always been for the customer and it's always the quality of the products been great. Yeah. It's always been for the customer. The quality of the product's been great. Yeah, it's always been for that girl.

And it has been a lot of word of mouth. Do I think it's helped? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that as a brand, we want to have an untraditional strategy. But it's just, yeah, marketing can be really fuzzy, I think, in how to get it right, especially when you have

a brand that's as unique as Nasty Gal. Sure. If there's a female or male entrepreneur listening who is in the middle of starting a brand or maybe they've already done a couple of years and they're trying to get it to the next level, what would you give them advice about press? Would it be more about honing in on your story and making sure you're unique? And would you say put energy into getting press or into something else first? I would say definitely have other people pitch press on your behalf. Never,

ever pitch your own press. Really? I feel like that's all I've ever done. Really? If it works. For me, it does. But in the same way that if you're going to send a threatening letter to somebody, you want it to be one degree separated. Or if you're going to be like, excuse me, this isn't okay. Having people that can act on your behalf puts you in a position to, I mean, it looks like you have a team, you know? So even if it's you writing from

like a blind email address, like, hi, I represent Lewis. It looks like you've got like more going on. Sure. That makes sense. That makes sense. I think I'm shameless too, but I do think that pitching yourself is tough. And then I think just like bring your A game. I mean, the first thing I learned, you know, there was a woman named Julie Supan who coached me through that first Forbes piece. And I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea how to tell the story. They all write the story that you present to them. They'll write the story of what happens in the room when you're there.

Of, you know, if there is or isn't a podcast producer here, if Lewis answered his own door, if whatever it is, they're going to tell the story of whatever happens. And you can architect that, which is creepy, but strategic. And in many ways,

you can write your own stories. And then I think my last piece of advice would be like bring your A game. Like I learned like you want more space in Forbes, bring them photos that they're going to want to use. So you get four pages as opposed to one. So it's a little superficial, but I don't know. It's like everything is at some point. Just bring your A game. Look at the magazine and say like,

what would, if there's no stylist on the shoot or whatever it is, bring what you think they're going to want to publish. Um, so Forbes wants you to look like you might, you could be a billionaire someday so that later on they could be like, look, we talked about her back in 2012 and I didn't look like a ragamuffin. They want that game and every publication is different. So reverse engineering, what you think the art director or the editor wants, when there's not someone there to do it with you.

Especially someone like Forbes. Yeah, right. They're not having an art director there or a stylist probably. They didn't. Even for the cover. That's crazy. That is crazy, right?

And you know what I did? I went on Net-A-Porter and I dropped a shitload of money and then I wore a dress and I kept the tag on it and I returned everything. And that was like three months ago. Wow. I'm still pretty cheap. What's Net-A-Porter? Net-A-Porte.

Net-A-Porte? You don't know what that is? No. Educate me. It's like a bazillion dollar European. It's like the Amazon of luxury. It's like one of the earliest e-commerce. I buy like t-shirts. That's fine.

I buy like water bottles. For women, they probably know what it is. Women know what Net-A-Porter is. I mean, it's just super expensive. But I like return everything. What's the other thing called? Save the dress or what's it called? Oh, Rent the Runway? Rent the Runway. Save the dress. It's kind of what they're doing.

It's like a luxury. No, that's great. She's an amazing entrepreneur. You should have her on the podcast. Have you had her on yours? Yeah. She's great a luxury. No, that's great. Yeah. And she's an amazing entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah. She'd have her on the podcast. Have you had her on yours? Yeah. She's great. That's cool. Now, I'm curious. Nasty gal's blowing up and then you decide to write a book, this book, Girl Boss.

Why the book? Yeah. Good question. I'm curious. You know, everything's already going so well for you. Why do this? So I met an attorney just randomly because I needed someone to do some work for me when I moved to LA on regular,

just regular stuff like, Hey, can you have a phone call with like an architect or look at a contract? I had moved, I moved the company here in late 2010 from San Francisco. Okay. Um, and I was introduced to an entertainment attorney and I'm not sure why.

Um, who had been at a Ziffern Brittenham, which is just like a huge top firm for 25 years. And not sure why, um, who had been at a Ziffern Brittenham, which is just like a huge top firm for 25 years. And it was like, listen, this is child's play. What do you want to do? You've got amazing stuff going. You want to do, you want to be on TV? You want a book? What do you want to do? And I was like, Oh, I don't want to be on TV, you know? And I've been on TV and who knows what's going to happen. But this was way back. You know, this book has been out for two years, almost two and a half years now.

He was like, a book? I was like, I don't know. A book would be cool because it's such a legacy item. It is something you put on your shelf. You have kids. You have grandkids. It doesn't matter if anybody buys your book. You still wrote a book.

You did. It's so cool. If anybody else likes it, that's great. I got to put a lot of stuff that I believe I marked a moment in time. It's, you know, if anybody else likes it, that's great. But like, I got to put a lot of stuff that I believe I marked a moment in time. It's like legacy building, you know, and that's just cool, you know, cause so much stuff lives and dies on the internet. So, um, I mean, this is in libraries. Like that's so exciting that people are like, I couldn't afford your book. And I read in the library and like,

change my life. Like the library comments on Twitter. But I was getting a lot of comments on Instagram and on social media, just like, oh my God, how did you do it? I'm starting a business. Can you give me some advice? Some, they'd maybe read some of the business press, knew that this was an eBay store at some point. Some people had followed me from the eBay days and were watching, you know, how nasty y'all had blown up. And, um, you know, I, I met with an agent at WME named Andy McNichol, who's amazing. And she was like, you know, I've since set her up with other people and she's like, yeah, no, they don't have a book in them. Like she, we sat down and she was like, what would you want to do? And I was like, I want to do a gateway drug for the business book section for, for girls because like, and it's not, I mean for girls, it's for anybody, but there's no books that are like funny and entertaining and educational and like really relatable. Like they're all like real square, like we're so

square and they're so self serious and they're really dogmatic. And they tell you that if you follow all these steps, then your life is going to be whatever, fill in the blank. And that's just not how it works. So like a, an honest kind of like, here's what I know, but I'm totally going to unlearn it by the time I write a third book and watch me, watch me. I am. Uh, yeah. Um, you know, here's what I know. Here's what I have to share. Take, take it and then throw it away and then go live your life, you know, take action. Yeah. Um, so that's really what girl have to share. Take it and then throw it away and then go live your life. Go take action. Yeah. So that's really what Girl Boss is about.

300,000 copies later. It's pretty impressive. That's my report card. What's that? That was your report card? Chooses to disturb others. I wish I had some of that stuff from childhood. It's great, right?

Yeah. Gosh. Were yours good or bad? I mean, I was in the bottom four of my class. Oh, wow. All through school. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. I couldn't read until about 16. Yeah. Gosh. Were yours good or bad? I mean, I was in the bottom four of my class. Oh, wow. All through school. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. I couldn't read until about 16.

Yeah. Where'd you grow up? I was in a small town, Delaware, Ohio. I was in the special needs classes with like three kids in wheelchairs and me. Because you were playing sports? No, I wasn't good at sports then either. I was just an idiot. Yeah.

I couldn't read. I couldn't write. I couldn't do anything. I don't believe you, but that's amazing if it's true. I cheated on every single test. I don't think I've actually told this, but I cheated on almost every single test in middle school all the way through high school until I graduated because I literally- It's not because you were dumb.

It's because you were like lazy. I wasn't a good test taker. I would practice and study and study and study. I could not comprehend the information. I couldn't learn it. And then I would just be like frustrated. So I'd be like, screw this. And I would go and I and study and study. I could not comprehend the information. I couldn't learn it. And then I would just be like frustrated. So I'd be like, screw this. And I would go.

And I became a master at cheating. Oh, wow. Luckily for Scantrons. Welcome to the School of Greatness. That's it, right? No, no, no. Exactly. I'm not proud of this either.

No. There's things we both know we're not proud of. You only learn by failing, right? And I learned that. I learned in a different way. You know, the reason I did the School of Greatness was because I was like, there's so many things that they didn't teach us in school that I wish they would have.

Principles that actually help us achieve the life of our dreams, relationships, business, whatever it may be, our health. They didn't teach me that or I didn't learn it. They don't really teach you much in school, though. No. Honestly. In high school at least, it's like, why do I need to know about weird trigonometry and no one's going to tell me

about debt? Right. The things that are important. What to do when credit card offers come in the mail. What do I do? Or get a parking ticket. Come on. Exactly.

That's life. Exactly. I hear you. What's really struggling for you? School? Educationally. I mean, if I was interested in something, I did really well. Yeah. If I liked the teacher, I would do pretty well.

And it was like I just didn't respect, like I didn't respect, I just felt like kind of trapped. You know, I felt like I was put in a room, the same room every day, at least in high school and middle school. You're there for a certain period of time, a bell rings and like a rat in a cage. It was like a drainage rail song or something. You've got to scurry to the next class. Go to the next one every day. Like how soul crushing is that for children?

I'm not going to be like a hippie parent either if I'm ever a parent, but like to like put a child in the same chair every day, have a bell ring and tell them like, go do the same thing. Oh, it's just like, yes, I think education is really important. I just, I don't, I don't have it figured out, but I do think that like everybody learns completely differently. I learned from doing things. I learned from engaging and asking questions. If you talk at me, I like glaze over, especially now that there's like iPhones and stuff. You're just like, what? But I'm like, what? I never heard anything.

If you don't, if you don't text me, I didn't hear it. Like, no, but yeah, we all learn really differently. And I just feel like the public school system was not set up for me. It's not good for me either. Yeah. Yeah. We have something in common. So I homeschooled.

I homeschooled my senior year. Really? And moved out before I graduated. Super introvert then. Yeah. I was just like, I like would go like and cry and like eat my pizza with my teacher. And I wasn't like- Was just you and your teacher?

Was there a couple of you or no? No, I just would go like hang out with my like political, like my social studies teacher or whatever. That was like before I homeschooled. Gotcha. Gotcha. And then I homeschooled. Gotcha, gotcha. And then I homeschooled and just was like, my parents split up that same year and I was like, I mean, I was like an only child and they were kind of strict and I was like, see ya.

Thanks guys. Wow. I've been taking care of myself. I mean, they were great. I love my parents, but I was like, I had to like self fill in the blank in like many ways. I think that grew me up pretty quickly. So who was more, um, influential to you, your mom or your dad? I can't answer that.

Cause like if ever my mom or dad listens to this, they'll be like, you said you mentioned your dad more in your book than you mentioned me. You said you were Greek, but you didn't say you're Italian or whatever. They're, they're great. I'll shift the question. Shift it. What's the biggest lesson you learned from each of them growing up? Yeah. I guess my dad's like a mother-effer. He's like hardcore. We would go on bike rides

and he'd be like a mile ahead of me like, hurry up. It wasn't like, la-di-da. It wasn't like, we're going to, you know, do recreation. This was like, I'm going on a bike ride and you're coming with me, kid. We're training. You know?

So I was like treated like a boy and which I think is many ways is like awesome, you know? Um, and yeah, so just like keep up. I think I learned from, I mean,

he was very critical. So like I learned to be self critical. Um, do you think that hurts you in any way? Yeah, totally. But that's mine to work out. I'll be fine. It's up to you to turn your damage into a strength. It's just to keep learning and taking feedback about who you are, how you behave, what your triggers

are, whatever. Like I don't go to that much therapy, but like I know some stuff. Just three times a week. No big deal. No, no. I'm just kidding. From my mom, gosh, I mean, I think like writing, she's an amazing writer and she's a great communicator and she's like, she's really cerebral to the point of like over communicating

sometimes and she, she wouldn't be surprised. She wouldn't be surprised if I said that. Um, and I've learned to like chill on that because some things, some, you know, I've learned, I've learned about time and space and letting people come to their own conclusions and like subtlety and not just like, I can be very knee jerk and that's my dad. And then I can also be very knee-jerk and communicative, which is like, oh, my God. So, yeah. But being responsible with those gifts is something that I've learned and keep learning. What would you say is the moment growing up that you're the least proud of? Probably a relationship I had in Portland with an alcoholic absentee dad who was a fry cook.

Yeah, it was like I had like my first real relationship was pretty trashy. But I don't even know how I went up there. I just wound up there and you're like, wait a second, like this is so not me. I'm like, I'm like yelling in the sky, like just like through the TV on the floor. Like this doesn't happen. I grew up with this garbage. Like how do I make sure that this is not my future? And I eventually figured it out. I don't yell or throw things or slam doors. That's nice. Yeah. Okay. And what would you say? But I can be really mean. Can you be? Yeah. In what way? I'm not proud. I don't know. I just like...

Things you say, the way you act. But like the best part is like being capable of it and then just restraining yourself and letting people drive themselves crazy. You know what I mean? There's crazy chicks and crazy dudes. Yeah, that's crazy guys. Crazy chicks. Absolutely.

It is what it is. Do you have a lot of stalkers? I had one. Girl or guy? A guy. Okay. Yeah. There's a restraining order. No way. I've never talked about this. I mean, I don't think it goes away. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I never had to put one on someone. If you're out there. I've got a bad hair. I've

got a dog that speaks Polish and only responds to me. Wow. What happened? Are you allowed to talk about this or no? No. Okay. I don't know. I'm allowed to talk about whatever I want, but I'd rather not. Don't get any ideas. Okay. There you go. Wow. Is that scary for you being in the public eye so much now? Yeah.

It's pretty scary. Being a girl? I mean, I feel. Yeah, it's scary. But mostly it's just like cool girls. People get really excited and they jump on you sometimes and you're like, oh my God, my personal space help. It's a lot of like, but I welcomed it into my life.

I mean I love the girls that read the book that come to the book events. It's so rewarding. I mean I had like 400 girls singing happy birthday to a girl who came to a book event on her 18th birthday by herself. And I was like, you guys, it's her birthday. Can you please sing her happy birthday? And like 400 girls sang happy birthday to Barnes & Noble. Amazing. In the square.

Can you please sing your happy birthday? And like 400 girls sang happy birthday to Barnes and Noble. Amazing. In the square. But yeah, as like an introvert, it can be very psychically draining. Yes. So I have to have time to like- Recover. Recover.

Yeah. What would you say is the most proud moment that most people don't know about you? Proud thing you've done or proud moment? Big or small? Proud moment. I mean, I think it was just buying my first car. I bought like a Nissan used. When was this?

This was like 2008 maybe. That same year I launched the website, but I had never really, you know, I had like a $3,000 Volvo that my parents had helped me buy. It was like an 87 and I loved it, but it didn't have any cup holders. I really wanted cup holders and so that's why had helped me buy. And it was like an 87 and I loved it, but it didn't have any cup holders. I really wanted cup holders. And so that's why I got the Nissan. But, um,

yeah, yeah. It was just like, I saved up, like I put like 10 grand down on like an $18,000 car and then had like an insane, like I'd like 11% interest on the remainder. And so as soon as I could, I paid it off. But yeah, like buying, I've driven a Porsche. I drive a different car now. Like I bought that Jaguar F-Type for like four months and I was like, this thing drags every, it drags on the ground. Like I can't even fit the shit I buy like in the back. Like how is this luxury?

I don't know. So I like, I kind of like cars. I saw you driving some vintage car last week that broke down and you had to tow it or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have a vintage Mercedes. And it was like an $87 fix, but I did have to get it towed. But there's nothing like buying your first car. It's just you're never as proud.

It doesn't matter how nice your interior is on the next one. There's a first. You do something the first time. Sure. It's never that exciting again. I don't know. I'm only 32. So sure. What brings you the most fulfillment in your life right now when you're doing what it brings you the most joy and fulfillment? When I'm with my friends and with my friends and my family, because you know, there's work is really important. And a lot of what I do isn't work.

It doesn't feel like work. It's really rewarding. Um, but I would just say like the people who really matter are so important to keep close and they'll be there for you when the shit hits the fan. And, um, yeah, yeah. I think just like leaning on your friends is like, or just them leaning on you, you know, is like, or just hanging out. Like, I don't know, just being like, wow, I've had this friend for 10 years and it's great. That's cool. Yeah. Okay. You know, I feel like women have a challenge right now as female entrepreneurs. I feel like it's, in general, it's harder for them to become more entrepreneurial. I think more and more it's happening. There's a lot of women out there who are doing it.

But what do you think is the biggest thing they're going to have to overcome? Knowing what you've done in the last 10 years, if they're just starting out, they're having a little bit – maybe they're making six figures in sales and their business, but they're trying to grow. What's the biggest challenge they're going to face? I mean, I think it's different for everybody. Um, I think it's, I think it's really like an individual thing. It's really hard to kind of, to be broad about that. Um, I would say, I would say you have an advantage in many ways, um, right now.

Uh, cause more and more people want to invest in female run businesses. I would say if you can get into something that isn't like, um, I guess they call it shrink it and pink it like just obvious women's stuff. Like I got into fashion, but I took investment way before like, you know, fab.com like went bust and you know, e-commerce is just in a different space in terms of taking investment. So if you can be in a science or technology or engineering area, you're really rare. I think just like going where other people aren't going is always a good idea. And just not showing up in the room and being like, I'm, you know, fill in the blank.

I'm different because I'm a girl. I'm different because I don't have a college education. I'm different because I haven't done what everyone else here has done. I just think like showing up and not being cocky, but like knowing that you're in the room for a reason is really important. Um, and participating like you belong there. Um, and that goes for anybody. Sure. What do you think people misunderstand about you the most? I think people think that I'm like, um, you know like, you know, I'm not smiling on the cover. You're smiling on the cover of your book. A little bit.

I'm not. You've got a little curl. My eyes are a little soft. A little soft. Yeah, I'm like sneering. Sneering at you. Yes. No, you know, I'm like in a power pose and I have like a harsh haircut and, you know, I think my hair, you know, I, I think I can

look severe, but I, but like once you talk to me, I'm like really generally pretty easy to talk to. So I think it's maybe the perception that I'm like, you know, some like Russian spy caricature who's like, you know, whatever. Do you know what I mean? Sure. Of course. Like I don't, I just, it's not the case, but I do think that I, I, I photograph that way.

So. Yeah. It's all good. It's a great shot though. Thanks. What's the big fear for you right now? I mean, again, a quarter of a billion dollar company, you've had so much success, book, Netflix show, podcast, which I want to make sure everyone goes and listens to as well,

which we'll talk about. Fear. Do you have a big fear of anything? Big fear. You've gotten so big now. Is it too big? I mean, the fear is like, yeah, living up to the noise. And some of that noise is my own creation.

Some of it's the creation of other people. Doesn't really matter. You take responsibility for it publicly regardless. Um, I think, you know, continuing to win. I think that even though I had to have a really honest story, like I've achieved something and it's expected that I just like keep winning. And so far, like I'm not, you know, like I'm'm not like losing but there's ups and downs to anything and what if I want to drop off the planet for a year what if I just want to like go chill

or like do something for myself I have a responsibility to an audience as to you you know that I think is you know that's just it's you know a fear yeah I think is like not I mean I'm not going to live up to it I think my fear is just knowing, I'm not going to live up to it.

I think my fear is just knowing that I'm not going to live up to it. Right. Live up to what? The hype. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you don't, you just,

and maybe you're the only person that knows that. Right. And maybe you just die in fear. I don't know. Sure. Do you feel like if you, so inspiring, do you feel like if you spent,

you know, let's say six months to a year where you're like, I'm going to take a vacation from it all. Yeah. And no more press, no more social media. Yeah. I'm not going to be creating content, no more podcast, no more book writing. And then you try to come back.

Yeah. How hard would it be for you to come back and be kind of at the top? I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know. I'd have to ask people who have done that or have worked with a managed or been publicist or agent. I'm sure people have no idea. I don't know. I'd have to like ask people who have done that or have worked with a managed or been publicist or agent. I'm sure people have done that.

I think you tell a story around it. Like they had a baby or like that's a good, that's probably a good excuse. You know, it's the only reason to have children. Do you want to have a family in the future? Yeah. At some point. Some point. Yeah.

Yeah. What, um, I'm curious what your vision is next. Again, with all this going on, like why do you keep bringing new things on? I'm a masochist. The next book. I'm a masochist. No, I really am. I like have an idea and I'm like, nobody said I can't.

Right. Well, I'm going to go do it. You know, that's it. It's just like, stop me. Do you have a vision or is it just random? No, it's not random. Uh, you know,

I've learned to pace things out better than I used to. I used to be like, I want to do everything at once. And that's just, that's so hard on teams. It's hard on your, it's really hard on your, it's really hard on yourself.

It's hard on anything. So, um, I would say my vision is to keep doing stuff that inspires people. That's honest. Um, that is fun where I get to create things. You know, I get to do projects now I get to executive produce a show and see what that's like. I get to write a book and, um, you know, be a podcast host and, um, you know, it's so fun to stretch yourself in ways that you never would have anticipated.

And who knows where that will go? I think it's as much about like personal growth and enrichment for me as it is about like the actual thing that I'm doing. I think a lot of it is just like stretching, you know, expanding. Like, you know, like a thing you put in a shoe that's a little too small. That's just like all I do all day. That's good. Okay. But you've learned to pace it better now.

I'm yeah. A lot, a lot, especially having, I have a really great assistant who's like, she's out there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think just, she's like, I think this is a little too much. And you know, I've had assistants who are also great, but we're like, you know, maniacs like me. And they were like, let's do it a little too much. And, you know, I've had assistants who were also great, but we're like, you know, maniacs like me. And they were like, let's do it. Let's bring it on. Let's just do everything. Like, you know, to not make everything an equal priority takes a lot of

maturity. Yeah, sure. I have a little maturity now, so that's good. That's nice. What's a question no one's ever asked you that you wish they asked. I don't like wish people ask me questions, right? Like who like wakes up and says like, I wished, I wish people will just ask me like, I don't know. Um,

or is there anything that you've always wanted to share that you haven't been able to share yet? I've shared everything. Yeah. It's disgusting. We've got three final questions for you. Okay. Uh,

before, before I ask them, I want to make sure everyone goes, book, Girlboss, and also download the podcast, Girlboss. It's in the top 100. It's crushing it on iTunes. You're only interviewing women, right? Yeah.

Who are just crushing it in life and business, entrepreneurial brands. You've got some amazing people on there. I saw you had Jessica Alba. What are some other names you've had on there? Jessica Alba hasn't been on it yet, but she was at my office and I Instagrammed. Gotcha. We've had – We have Farnooshan, who's a mutual friend of mine.

Yeah, yeah. We've had Beth Comstock, who's the vice chair at GE. Charlize, who's producing the Netflix show, was the first guest. I've had Kate Cannon, who's also working on the Netflix show, who wrote Pitch Perfect and Pitch Perfect 2. It's not super celebrity heavy. I've had Alyssa Mastromonaco, who was the Deputy Chief of Staff to President Obama. She's now the Chief Operating

Officer at Vice. She's amazing. That's a really good one. Top girl bosses. Top and in the middle. Women who have like an interesting story, everyone's started in a different place. Some of these women went to great schools. Some of them didn't go to school. Some of them are creative. Some of them are business people. And I try to find like a humanizing, like common ground element through

that, which is just that everybody starts somewhere. Sure. That's cool. Okay. Well, make sure everyone go and download it. Girlboss Radio. Girlboss Radio. Check out the Netflix show, which will be out in, what, a year? Yeah, sometime next year, 2017. And get the book when it comes out. You can pre-order it right now.

Yes. The new book, Nasty Galaxy. Yeah. And then do you have a personal site as well? Just girlboss.com. Girlboss.com. Yeah. And all your socials on there.

Follow you everywhere because you're hilarious and amazing. Follow me at Sophia Maruso on the Instagram, the Snapchat, and the Twitter. The Insta Snap now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't even know about Snapchat. Forget it. I don't think I'm going to be on it anymore.

I still like messaging. I do like messaging a little bit. But you can do it on Instagram. Oh, you can do messaging too? Yes. You just turn it off for everyone. Oh, the DM thingy. Yeah.

I still like Snapchat better because it disappears. So does Instagram. I don't know enough then. Well, it's only one day. It's been out for a day. It's been out for a day. Give it some time. All right, I'll give it some time.

What are you most grateful for in your life recently? I'm grateful for adversity. I'm grateful for the garbage that shines a light on the things that really matter. So I can constantly be reminded of like why life is worth living and why I still have so much to learn. That's great. Yeah.

A lot of adversity right now. I mean, yeah, personally. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is a question called the three truths.

All right. Okay. All right. So imagine your life many, many years from now. Uh, and it's the last day for you, but all of the books you've written,

the thousand books you've written at this time, cause you're a maniac and you write that many, all the movies, TV shows are gone for whatever they're erased. They're gone. Something happened to them. They're gone. Uh, to them. They're gone. And everyone's there.

All your friends and family, the people you love the most. And they say, we don't have anything else to remember you by. Can you write down three things you know to be true on a piece of paper as your final three thoughts? That's a great question. So what would be your three truths? Oh, man. It's like what I am or what I want to be. That's a great question. So what would be your three truths? Oh, man. It's like what I am or what I want to be.

That's the question. And I can pick, you know, I can flatter myself or I can be honest. Three things that you would. That I want to be remembered by. Or your three truths for the world. Yeah. Creative. Honest. Maybe generous. Okay. Yeah. Uh, create creative, um,

honest, maybe generous. Okay. Yeah. These would be three things you want to be remembered by. Yeah. So what about three things? Like things like books,

like a, like a three messages, truths, truths. So like love is all you need. Oh, like, okay.

Like a message that you would give to the world. Okay. How to live. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Those three things are great about you. I the world. Oh, okay. Of how to live. Not like about me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. Those three things are great about you. I like those.

All right, whatever. Thanks. Those work. Okay. So three truths that you would give back to the world is like, here's my three points of the Bible. You don't know shit. Uh-huh. Don't give up.

And be compassionate. Those are great. Yeah. I like those. Okay. Do you feel compassionate? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Okay. I've got one final question before I ask it. I want to take a moment to acknowledge you, Sophia. I want to acknowledge you for your incredible drive and your incredible creativity, your incredible passion and energy for the vision that you had and bringing it to life. Thanks. There aren't that many people that have done what you've done, especially 32-year-old women who have used to dive in dumpsters to get food and check IDs all day and build something from a simple idea without having proof or evidence that it was going to come to life like this. So I acknowledge you for the inconsistency over a decade of just showing up and constantly

learning. You just have to keep showing up. It's amazing what you've created. So I acknowledge you for all of it. Of course. The final question is what is your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is being happy with the results of how you spend your time. I don't know.

I think it's like, I think it's just, it's a personal definition that you have to make for yourself because other people make it for you. Probably never going to get there. And even if you make it for yourself, you'll probably never get there. I think it's just showing it's again, it's showing up every day. That's it. Like, I think that's greatness. Awesome.

Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, that's fun. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Make sure to check out the full show notes and the video interview at lewishouse.com slash three, six, five, and check out her book, Girl Boss.

Go pick up a copy today. Let me know what you think. Make sure to send me a tweet at lewishouse and let me know what you thought of this episode as well. And share your feedback with Sophia. Connect with her on social media, on Twitter, Instagram, and let her know what you enjoyed most about her interview and what she shared.

Again, lewishouse.com slash 365. And if you haven't signed up for the Summit of Greatness yet, make sure to send an email, lewis at schoolofgreatness.com with the password. And let's get you signed up ASAP so I can see your pretty face in Columbus, Ohio in less than six weeks. All right, guys, I'm going to get back to the Olympics and watch some games. Thank you so much for being a part of this community. Thank you so much for giving your heart and sharing this episode with your friends. It means the world to me. And I know Sophia will enjoy that as well. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do

something great.