The School of Greatness - 385 The Art and Science of Epic Adventure with Jon Levy

Episode Date: September 26, 2016

"The fundamental element that defines the quality of our lives is the people we surround ourselves with." - Jon Levy If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/385

This is episode number 385 with John Levy. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone to another edition of the School of Greatness podcast, and I am in one

of my favorite places in the world right now, and that's Ohio. I'm home. I'm back home for the week because the Summit of Greatness is happening this Thursday, Friday, Saturday in Columbus, Ohio. I'm bringing 10 of some of the most inspiring, inspirational speakers and thought leaders in the world in the business, health, relationship, and spirituality world to Columbus to put on an epic three-day experience to help people unlock their inner greatness at summitofgreatness.com.

Make sure to check it out. Get your last-minute tickets. We've got hundreds and hundreds of people flying in from all over the world, and I am so pumped to meet everyone in person. So get your last-minute ticket to Columbus, Ohio at summitofgreatness.com. It just feels good to be here. I'm here about four days early to really make sure I ground myself, that I do all the last-minute planning and details. I'll tell you what, putting on a big event like this, an annual big event, is, at least for the first year, it's been a challenging experience.

I'll say that. It's been fun. first year, it's been a challenging experience. I'll say that. It's been fun. It's been awesome to produce and to create and bring my vision from my mind and bring it to life. I love being able to take ideas and make them come true and bring them into the world so that other people can experience my ideas. For me, that's something, I feel like I'm an artist in a sense, that I create products and bring things to life. That's what I like to do. Our guest today is a buddy of mine.

His name is John Levy. And John is a behavior expert, consultant, writer, and keynote speaker best known for his work in the fields of influence and social experience. He's all about the art and science of creating epic adventures in our life. And he's worked with countless brands and companies to support their efforts in consumer engagement, customer acquisition, and product development. He's also the founder of something that I met him through, which is the Influencers Dinner,

which is a private community and dining experience for tastemakers and industry leaders and celebrities. Combining years of experience running influencer dinners and research, John has developed a deep understanding in designing social experiences and creating influencer programs for brands. He's a fascinating guy. I think you're going to enjoy this a lot. Some of the things we covered are the difference between being productive and being exciting and what that actually means, how the misattribution of arousal creates bonds with strangers and what that means, the story of how John almost got killed at running of the bulls.

There are four stages of adventure that John breaks down that he's created as well. These four different stages and why it's important to end any adventure you have with style and the ways in style and what you can end them. Very excited about this. I hope you guys enjoy this one. If you do make sure to share it out over on Twitter, Facebook,

Instagram, tag me everywhere at Lewis house, Lewis house. If you do, make sure to share it out over on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Tag me everywhere at Lewis Howes. LewisHowes.com slash 385 for all the show notes, the links that we talk about in this episode, and the full video interview is posted there well, which goes to our YouTube channel. So make sure to check that out and like up and leave a comment on that YouTube video also. Make sure to check that out and like up and leave a comment on that YouTube video also. Get ready for episode number 385 with the one, the only, John Levy. All right.

Welcome, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about our guest, John Levy, in the house. Good to see you, man. So good to see you. Pumped for this. You got a new book out called The 2AM Principle, Discover the Science of Adventure. And the cool thing about your book here, you have a little spinning wheel on the front to show people who are watching the YouTube video where you can choose kind of like your own adventure and you kind of break it down here.

So I'm very excited about this. The Science of Adventure. You are essentially a social experience scientist yourself, correct? Yeah, absolutely. And tell us a little bit about that. So I'm a human behavior scientist. I do actual research on human behavior, anything ranging from why do people date on mobile networks or, you know, like Tinder, Hinge, stuff like that, to why people use coupons or not. And I'll do research to kind of figure out what you'll do, how to affect your behavior.

And I specialize kind of on two things. One is influence, what affects your decision-making. And then the second is the science of adventure, what causes you to live a fun, exciting, and remarkable life. Yes. And you have a great quote in here or a great saying about the 2 a.m. principle. And what is that? Oh, that nothing good happens after 2 a.m. except the most epic experiences of your life.

Now, someone would probably have great debates with you and say, well, you know, having a good routine and going to bed by 11 o'clock every night so I have, like, good sleep patterns so I can be optimized during the day. I actually might have a better experience. Oh, yeah. But you say that the greatest experiences you've ever had are after 2 a.m. I would definitely agree on that. And I think that routines are critical, right?

So there's a difference between living an exciting life and being really productive, right? Right. So when I want to be productive, I follow a routine. You go to bed at 10 o'clock at night. Maybe not 10. I mean, I like the quiet hours to get some work done. And it's, and especially I live in New York, so it's so active that I don't even get home until, you know, a later hour. Yeah, yeah.

But those quiet hours are critical, either early in the morning or late in the evening. But when you're talking about excitement, you need something that stands out. And it's really tough to have something stand out and be part of a routine. And so in those portions of your life where you're really dedicating yourself to push your boundaries, grow, you're going to find that you can't – it's tough to grow when you're in a routine in the same way. And so – You grow in a different way in a routine. Yes.

Maybe people say in a routine, well, you're going to get stronger. You optimize in a routine. Optimize, yeah. Right? But when you're talking about feeling comfortable in social situations, you have to throw yourself out there. When you're talking about even growing physically, when you're going to push your limits, then you have to go out somewhere different because you're going to be stifled within the environments that you're used to.

In fact, we know the brain operates fundamentally differently in new environments. Our brain reacts by wanting to explore and understand, right? Because I think the theory is that if I'm alive right now and I recognize and understand the environment, I'll continue to be alive. But if I'm in a new environment, then hold on. I need to understand what's going on in order to continue my life. And so we develop this thirst for exploration when we're in new environments. And that's when I discussed this at length in the book. Now, why did you – were you growing up?

Did you not have any adventure? Were you like this nerdy kid that was scared to risk things or i would say that that would be a lovely description of myself um it was way worse than that okay oh my god i mean like so bad uh and i was the geeky kid before it was cool to be geeky right so at So at a certain point, like people had iPhones and so apps were cool and there were these billion dollar dot com success stories. And so you, oh, you have a startup, you could be really successful and cool.

When I was growing up, there was none of that. I was like the biggest loser because I liked programming and Star Trek and all the geeky things. And in eighth grade, my teacher, like, bless her soul, threw out the seating chart for our classroom and then let all of us secretly submit two people we want to sit down next to and two people we don't want to sit down next to. And through this really unfortunate series of events, I found out that nobody wanted to sit down next to me. And I was heartbroken. found out that nobody wanted to sit down next to me and I was heartbroken. And I had this choice of either like I'd be relegated to a life of solitude or I would dedicate myself to understanding

what causes the decisions that we make and what causes people to connect and relate and become friends. And I said, you know what, what I really lack in social skills, I more than make up for in my love of science. And so I might not be able to approach this the way that like the cool kids in the class can. But I have my own skill set. And if I use that, maybe I can figure this out. What would you say is your superpower then? Wow. My superpower is in finding patterns.

Right? Wow, my superpower is in finding patterns, right? Not like a codebreaker in like, you know, beautiful mind, but more like in social situations. I can see interactions between people and I actually kind of do math when I see people interacting and I can maybe predict to some degree how people will react. So I'll look at a group and I'll say, okay, there's a 30% chance that if I invite them to come with me, that they will. And in fact, last night I was in LA, my dinner plans canceled. I got a call from my brother saying, hey, I'm coincidentally in San Jose, not in San Jose, San Diego, sorry, for a concert come down. So I just hopped on the train. I was there like two and a half hours later. And we went to this concert. We met all these random strangers. We filled a van, went to the hotel, met random strangers at the hotel, convinced them within 15 seconds of meeting them that they should pile into our van, took them all to a night

club, and then danced until three o'clock in the morning. Wow. This was last night. This was last night. And then you got on a train and came here. Yeah, because I'm definitely not going to miss hanging out with you. Exactly. But it's because I've

been studying the science behind our social interaction and put myself year after year after year in these really uncomfortable situations and tested if I approach this group, will they let me in or will I get shunned? So you have like a scientific data in your mind when you see a group of girls, guys, whoever, women, adults, kids, that if you ask them a question to come do something with you,

you're like, I have a 20% chance in this situation based on the weather, the time, the, like, is that the way you think? Yeah. Well, I'll give you examples. Okay. Have you ever heard of the Ben Franklin effect? It's this kind of odd characteristic. People always know that if you do me a favor, I'll, there's reciprocity. There's reciprocity.

Yeah. It actually also turns out that if I ask you or I ask somebody to do me a favor, they'll like me more after because they've invested time and effort into me. If they agree to do a favor. Yeah, yeah. Correct. But what's also really interesting is that if you begin by asking somebody for a small favor, they're more likely then to do a follow-up favor that's bigger. For example, like, oh, can you do me a favor and tell me what time it is? Yes.

Something simple where it's like, oh, let me check my phone. But that's literally what the experiment or one of the famous experiments on the topic was. People would be stopped and asked for directions and most people would continue walking and not give them. But then they stopped, people asked them for the time, and once they got the time from them, asked them for directions and almost everybody gave them directions. Right, like 90% probably.

Yeah, whatever it was. But the point is that if you stack asking for favors, people will feel more committed to you and more invested. And so there's a whole collection of research around this that shows that those kind of, by getting people to invest into you, it creates stronger bonds. So when I approach a group, I might begin by asking them a favor like, hey, do you mind taking a photo? And then they go, yeah. And I take a photo and I go, you know, get in the photo, come here. And so now we have inclusion. And then I keep stacking the interactions between us because my goal is

you know I've traveled a lot I've seen a lot of things and the one thing that drives me more than anything is the people I get to meet I get to discover these incredible stories and cultures and traditions

that I never knew existed and there's no better feeling than at the end of a night or five o'clock in the morning, the sun is coming up. I'm on the beach with these people I've never, like I would have never imagined existed. And I would count them among some of my closest friends now because like we went moonlight cliff jumping in Greece, you know, and those kinds of experience bond us so much.

So I- Much more than just like going to a coffee shop with a friend. Yeah. You do something adventurous with someone else, you feel a deeper sense of connection, correct? Absolutely. There's actually something also called the misattribution of arousal, which is, there's this famous study that was done.

And when I say arousal, I'm talking just about a heightened and elevated physical state, right? So your heart is pumping, adrenaline. Sight, man. Yeah, yeah. And so the experiment that was done was men were asked to cross bridges. And in the first scenario, the bridge was a very sturdy, safe bridge. And they just walked across. And at the other side, there was a lovely and attractive woman who asked them, I think, some questions and gave her number

for follow-up issues or whatever it was. And then the second group had to cross a high ropes course bridge. So their heart was racing. And when they got to the other side, same thing, there was a woman there. And what happened was that the men who were on the high ropes bridge ended up calling her disproportionately, asking her out. Really? And the belief is that because they had that elevated heart rate and that elevated state of arousal, then they confused it for attraction. And so it had them act more. Similarly, you can accelerate the way that you bond and connect with people by heightening

the situations that you're in. So when you can create this level of excitement and fun and joy, my belief is that it really goes and accelerates the relationship. What are some examples you could do to elevate that, the arousal in any type of situation? You know what I'd love to do is I would like to give a definition for adventure. Okay. Because I spent a lot of time looking for a unified explanation of what an adventure is. And here's how I define it. An adventure is, one, an experience that is exciting and remarkable.

Now, it has to be remarkable because as a species, we've spent thousands of years passing our knowledge down through an oral history, through commenting on things. And just like why people listen to this show is that the content that you're providing is remarkable. It's worth talking about. Unless the experience is worth talking about, it's not culturally significant. Two, possesses adversity and or risk, preferably perceived risk. Now- Not like a, I'm going to die risk. Precisely.

But I feel like- Yes. Terrified that it could happen. So like if you go cliff diving, if you go bungee jumping or skydiving, right? Skydiving is incredibly safe in comparison to climbing Everest, which has a huge fatality rate, In comparison to climbing Everest, which has a huge fatality rate, which means that you can experience a heightened physical response as if you're in danger without actually putting yourself in any real danger. And then the final is, the third is it brings about growth. The person you are at the end is distinct from the person who started, right? Because if you look at any great journey, the hero or heroine is changed by the experience.

And so just like my hunch is that when you bring guests on here and talk about growth, the benefit of going through a lot of experiences isn't just the stories you get to tell. It's the person you get to be in the process and the person you become. Because when you've expanded, you have a new skill set. And that's what the real prize is, that now I can do all these additional things that I previously couldn't. So things that can elevate the experience are things that just stand outside of our comfort zone. So I say that there's three basic boundaries. You can claim that there are more, but there's physical boundaries, right? I'm scared of climbing over this wall and sneaking in somewhere, right? Or I'm scared of trying to run a marathon

because, oh my God, it's going to hurt, like who knows what. Then there's social boundaries. Now, these are boundaries that aren't necessarily real, right? It's perceived like rules or perceived fears. Exactly. Like, oh, I could never go up and talk to this person and ask them to come on a trip with me. Yes. In 10 seconds, like you've done, right?

Well, yes. And I'll definitely share that story if you want. It's probably one of my crazier ones. But we've inherited a set of beliefs from our culture that we believe are true, and we treat them as if they're physically stopping us. are important for a functional society, right? Because if we push certain ones out of the way, then we alienate people, right? If you stop showering, nobody's going to want to sit next to you. There's nothing stopping you from throwing your food on the floor and eating that, but like to what end? And it serves no benefit. But other social boundaries, there's nothing stopping you from serenading people on the New York City subway, right? Or like, you know, panhandling, like there's just for the experience.

Yeah. Or writing poetry for someone or reading it aloud to them or something. Yeah. We have this internal belief of what's right in society and what's wrong. And in a lot of cases, we made that up in childhood or got it passed down from our parents and a culture that might no longer be relevant. And so pushing those boundaries makes us feel kind of invincible. The problem is that you have to be careful. There's something called the winner effect. And that's when you experience a win, your body floods with testosterone. And in nature, the idea would be then you're prepared for your next battle and you have

a higher chance of success. But if you keep winning and keep winning and keep winning, you get to a point where you think that you can't fail. And then you're at risk of really hurting yourself. So animals in nature that experience this spend too much time in the open and then get hunted or they get into fights that are unnecessary and get themselves killed. that are unnecessary and get themselves killed. And so there's a great book called The Hour Between Dog and Wolf, which talks about how the biggest risk to our economy may have been that stock traders were experiencing this, and then they thought they couldn't fail.

And then they were taking bets that were just not. Crazy risks. Yeah. It's like, I want to win no matter what, and then crash. And frankly, I didn't understand this until I went to running of the bulls in Pamplona. And I prepared for months training in cardio to do the run and survive it. And I luckily made it through the run. And then I didn't know that there's a second half where if you're in the stadium, they let the bulls in one at a time. And you go toe-to toe to toe with them.

Now I'm completely flooded with adrenaline and testosterone and dopamine, right? Like my neurochemistry is off the charts. And so I decide, oh, you know, it's obvious I'm going to run up to this bull and touch it. Oh my gosh, you're crazy. And so I go and do it. And then I'm like, wait, that's still not enough. I can definitely do something way tougher than that. I can ride the bull. So I run up to the bull and I slap it do something way tougher than that. I can ride the bull. So I run up to the bull and I slap it on its butt. No way. So you touched it the first time. I just touched it.

I was like, yeah, it was fine. And I was like, and then I slap it on its butt and I run away. And I was like, okay, there has to be something more intense that I can do. Oh, so you slap it on its butt, nothing. No, it responded, but I got out of there. There was someone else there that he was chasing or whatever. And then other people do crazy stuff. They jump like parkour style.

Oh, over. No way. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. How do they jump a bull? Like, listen, it's beyond the- The adrenaline is so high, Chloe. Okay.

And so the ultimate test in theory is when bulls enter the stadium, they open two gates and they run up like a plank and they kind of jump in. And what people do is they lie down on the ground right in front of where the bull's entrance is. And the bull is supposed to know just through nature to jump over everyone. And they clear like 12 people, like literally like five people deep, five people wide or something.

Yeah. Oh, you've got to see the photos of this. So I'm like, yeah, I'm going to take the safest position, right? All the way like on the left and the bull's coming at me. And I am like crouched down on the sand. My gosh, you're insane. And it's going to make its jump and it slips. Oh, no.

And I knew like in that moment, I am done. I am done. And the bull misses its jump, lands flat on my back. No way. Full hoof. And I lose all feeling in my torso. Oh, gosh. And, like, there's thousands of people screaming, and it just goes quiet.

And I am not sure if I'm paralyzed or not. And time stops. And I'm literally sitting there thinking, not even sitting, I'm just like pushed into the ground, thinking, I have spent my life living on the edge of craziness. And now I might spend the rest of it in a wheelchair. Oh, my gosh. And I have to be either okay with that or I'm going to regret it for the rest of my life. And I'm like, okay, this is it. I'm okay with this. And I'm not going to change,

even if I'm in a wheelchair. And time started up and I literally was shouting at my legs to move and somehow they started moving, but it was really clear something was wrong with my torso. I'm shouting for a doctor, but literally nobody's responding because there's too many messed up bodies. Everyone's getting messed up. Yeah, so the people are dragging bodies out of the way. Oh, my gosh. And somebody taps me and is like, oh, go. There's triage.

I go in. I start passing out, and a nurse helps me and like shakes me awake. And the pain was so overwhelming. I couldn't speak. And a doctor came over and eventually I was like, no, it's, I wasn't hitting the head.

It's just my shoulder. And he takes my arm, extends it and starts rotating it. I'm like literally holding back screams. And I'm not sure if my shoulders dislocated, broken, like what's going on. But you feel extreme pain.

Oh my God. Not like nothing I've ever experienced. Yeah. And dislocated, broken, like what's going on. But you feel extreme pain. Oh, my God. Like nothing I've ever experienced. Yeah. And he goes, it's just a contusion. Get out of here. And I'm like, first of all, what's a contusion? Second of all, I'm not going anywhere.

I was just going unconscious. And he's like, you have two minutes and a contusion is a bad bruise. And all I could think is like, bruising is what happens to fruit. Not like world-class adventures. This is far too embarrassing. If I had like a is like, bruising is what happens to fruit, not like world-class adventures. This is far too embarrassing. If I had like a broken bone, it would be okay. So I ended up at the hospital and I had this photo of me at the emergency room, separate doctor. And he's like, you shouldn't get on a plane. There might be air trapped around your lungs. And if you go and fly, your lungs will collapse midair and you'll die. And there's this photo of a hoof print in my shoulder.

Oh, my gosh. It's a full, like, you look at it and you see. Do you have this photo somewhere? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. I have to see this. And so it's literally imprinted into my body. It's like two ton of a beast.

Yeah. It's like 1,500 pounds, right? And I took six months of physical therapy. I couldn't get in and out of bed by myself. It was like a total mess. I've been there. I've had experiences like that just from playing football, you know, breaking ribs and not being able to move and just being miserable for months. So I feel the pain, but that's crazy, man.

It was absolutely insane. I still have back problems, but I'm lucky to be alive. That's great. Well, it was worth it? It was worth it to be the type of person that does it. It's not worth it to have the injury. Yes, exactly. Just like you'd never look back at your sports career and go,

no, I wish I wasn't an athlete because it defined you. It defined your character. It made you grow. But I wouldn't be me if I didn't say yes. Yeah. You wish you wouldn't have gotten landed on. Yeah. You could have had the experience without the pain.

Exactly. Sometimes you get a little messy when you go after some adventures. Yeah. And this one was more risky than others. And you knew that people get injured every year and that the possibility is 50-50 probably. You never know. Yeah. It's completely unpredictable. And a lot of people also get injured because other people act crazy. And so they stampede on each other.

So it's – listen, those things are dangerous. And I do not recommend it to anybody. And like there are people every year that don't come home. Yeah. It's crazy, man. Yeah. It's crazy. List off maybe like the top three other adventures, just something like a sentence, like a synopsis

of like a few more crazy adventures you've done. So every year I do a travel project. So one year I, and the reason I was in Pamplona is I said every month I'll go to the biggest event in the world, wherever it is. Now, I had no idea I was going to pay for it. Right. I just set an audacious goal and I was like, okay, I'm going to announce this to all of my friends. And my friends were like awesome about that. Like come and stay with me. And here's a book. And people like literally mailed me books with like lists of crazy cool things around the world. And so one of the things I did was I went to Cannes Film Festival in France. I didn't really enjoy the film festival, but while I was, because like it's, you know, it's not my scene. I'm not in film or anything.

anything. But while I was in France, I was alone one night and I dropped myself off in Nice with no place to stay. I don't speak French. I've never been to Nice, don't know anything about it. And my deal with myself was either I was going to convince a stranger to put me up for the night or I was going to sleep on the street. I've done that. Go ahead, tell your story and I'll share mine. So what ended up happening was I, it, at the beginning of the night, I had no idea what I was going to do. And I was walking through the streets and it was like quiet because I think

it was a Wednesday or something. Nothing was going on. Sure. And eventually I got directions from somebody at a bar and they said, Oh, check out this, this expat bar. And when when i walked in it was packed like hundreds of people standing on tables live cover band all that and uh there was this really cute

uh girl that all the guys were walking up to trying to hit on and failing miserably and i was like you know what would make this story amazing is if she put me up for the night. So I see it's like 90 degrees in there because of all the dancing. It's a kind of closed room. So I have the waiter, the bartender, deliver a bottle of water, like a large bottle of water for her and all of her friends. And she came over to me to speak to me. And she's like, why not a drink? And I'm like, because it's so hot.

I'm sure all those other guys offered you drinks. She's like, good point. She's done something different. Not only something different, but I tried to put myself in their state. Every other guy is looking to just take advantage or get her drunk or whatever it is. And I'm more socially driven than I am like the other aspect, right? Like I love bringing people together and the more the merrier. And so it was about her and her friend.

Anyway, I get into a conversation with her and I really underestimated how much the language barrier would be an issue. And so for like 20 minutes, every time I spoke, I just was like in quicksand. Neither of us understood each other and it had nowhere to go. And I was ready to give up and just be like, okay, I'm going to sleep on the street. And so every time I grabbed a drink, there was this group of four guys there that were like very dapper and dressed and British. And I was like, hey, maybe if I befriend these guys, they'll put me up for the night. And so it was like one or two in the morning at that point. And I treat around to shots and I'm like to the adventure and let's make it epic. And we ended up going on a bar crawl through Nice. And then they're like, okay,

let's get in a cab. And we went 25, maybe 20 minutes out and I had no idea where we were. It's like close to four o'clock in the morning. And when I get out of the cab, they'd left me with a bill and disappeared. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm totally screwed. I don't know if I have any enough money to get another cab. Like don't even know how to call one here. And I realized that they're walking in, like, I see them, they walk into this house and it's a three-story chateau on the border of Monaco. It turns out that every one of these guys came from some, like, prominent British family. I never asked who they were or their background or anything.

None of that mattered when we were, like, hanging out. And so I ended up in this gorgeous house with a full service staff. I cooked everybody breakfast. Oh, my gosh next morning he pulled out like a Bentley or something and drove me back into town. And there I was on like a train thinking back, like, how did I go from being homeless to staying in a castle? That's amazing, dude. I did. I had a similar experience when I was, uh, God, I had, I must've been 25, 26. I was poor, sleeping on my sister's couch. And there was a sports film festival in Philadelphia that I wanted to go to to start meeting some people, professionals in the sports industry. I bought a Greyhound ticket to get there.

I literally had maybe $100 total for this whole trip. I bought a Greyhound ticket to get there. It took like 20 hours or whatever because it's a million stops. I have one sport jacket, like suit jacket. That's the only nice thing I have. And I'm trying to look professional, but this is my first event I've ever been to. Wow. With like adults, right? And I

remember I had a hostel for the couple nights I was there. And it was like $16, $17. The first night I get there, 20 bunk beds in the room, all European guys. And I get back late, probably three or four o'clock at night and there's throw up all over the door,

all over the floor, in the bathroom, everywhere. And they're just snoring like European dudes. And I was just miserable. But I was like, this is all I can afford. The next night I go back there, they say, sorry, we overbooked. We don't have your bed anymore.

So it's like 2 a.m. at this point. I try to call my buddy who had an apartment there. He was already asleep. I'm literally walking around with my carry-on luggage or whatever in the streets of Philadelphia. And I'm like, I'm going to have to sleep on this thing here, the bench or wherever, because

my Greyhound isn't until later the next day. What am I going to do? So I go into a bar, and I don't drink, but I go into a bar and just strike up a conversation to see if I could have someone let me crash. And I remember convincing this guy to let me crash on his futon and just like building a relationship, building rapport. I'm not sure what favors I asked or anything like that, but I was just building connection. It was like, I have nowhere to sleep tonight.

Can you let me crash? And ended up letting me in, and it was great. I have nowhere to sleep tonight. Can you let me crash? And ended up letting me in. And it was great. I don't remember his name. That's incredible. But it's amazing what we can create as human beings if we put ourselves out there. Yeah. If we give ourselves a challenge and we're able to connect with other people and really go for it, I think we can do anything we want.

With no money, with no plans, we can make it happen. One of the things that I say is that I discovered there's four stages to every adventure. And contrary to popular belief, people think that most adventures happen by random luck or chance. But if that were true, we'd all live similarly exciting lives, right? If it's just random. And we don't. So there's something that people embody that live really exciting lives and other characteristics that people embody that have them live more tame lives. And so when you're the first step of any adventure is to establish the right elements in place so that anything can happen.

Most important is the people you're with. Right. And I'm sure you have people often come on and discuss how like, oh, you're five closest friends or you're the average. And there's research by, do you know, has anybody ever discussed Nicholas Christakis and James Fowler's research? No. This is, and listeners, you are going to love this. This is one of my favorite studies of all time. Christakis and Fowler were curious about the obesity epidemic.

And what they did was they were curious if it was an epidemic that transferred from person to person like a cold, right? Somebody sneezes, it passes. Or if it's a percentage of the population, right? Certain diseases that just randomly occur, percentage of the population. And which one is it? It turns out it transfers from person to person. So if you have a friend who's obese, then just knowing them increases your chances of obesity by 45%. Let's say I don't know that person, but I'm friends with you. So I have a 25%

increased chance. My friends who don't know anybody else have a 10% and their friends have a 5% increased chance of obesity. Christakis and Fowler found that this effect is also true for smoking, voting habits, divorce, marriage, happiness, and so on. Wealth. Probably generating wealth, right? Everything. Like all of it passes through your social network. If all your friends are making a lot of money, you have a greater chance of making a lot of money. Absolutely.

If all your friends eat junk food, you have a greater chance of making a lot of money. Absolutely. While your friends eat junk food, you have a greater chance of eating junk food. And that's exactly because if I'm at a meal with you and you're eating a lot and you're probably eating more than me because you're an athlete and you're a big guy, then I'm compelled to eat more because I have permission now. And so that's just one of the many ways that we affect each other. And so the most important thing you can do to have an adventurous life is curate people around you that support that. Just like if you want to be successful, you want to have the right people around you. And so, and in addition to that, I also say that it's important to explore a new location because as we discussed, your brain operates differently. But beyond that,

something that you pointed to right now are the constraints that we have on us. So I think it's critical to have a mission, some goal that drives the behavior. And having fun isn't a mission. Having fun is a byproduct of the activity. So an end result is what you're saying. Yeah. Like, for example, a mission could be as diverse as I'm going to take somebody out on a date. And by the end of the date, we

will have performed three acts of kindness for strangers. Oh, that's cool. Or what if it was, and then we'll add a constraint, okay? A constraint could be, we can only spend $5 to do it. Now, because of the constraints- You get to be creative. You get to think. That's exactly it.

Explore. Precisely. So, environments that seemed really mundane, like you live in a small town and it's like either the bar or the theater. Right, right. Now you can say, okay, well, at $5, let's go into CVS, see what we can come up with. Maybe we can create a simple meal. Maybe we can create a beautiful postcard to support somebody who's homeless to know that they're not alone. Right?

And all of a sudden, the entire experience transforms because at that point, you're doing something that's exciting and remarkable, possesses adversity and or risk. You have a challenge. You have these constraints that you have to deal with. There's a risk of success and failure. And three, the person you are at the end, I'm sure would be different than the person who started

if you've been a contribution to three random people. Absolutely, Yeah. But it could be that on one end to, you know, my little brother has never kissed anybody, right? Like, let's help him meet somebody cute to whatever it is, right? Maybe it's instead I am going out for drinks. I'm not allowed to go anywhere I've already been. Right. And then you're exposed. Maybe you'll end up at a biker bar,

even though that's not a place you'd normally go to, but you'll have a diversity of experience. And we've found that creativity grows as the wealth of experiences that you have. So when you're exposed to all these different cultures, hey, you know, it never occurred to me to maybe go to a transvestite fashion show, but attending that increases the wealth of experience of my life. And so my policy is say yes to anything

that won't kill you. There you go. I like it. What were the four parts then of the formula to create your adventure? So that was just the first stage. The first stage is establish, where you put the right elements in place so that anything can happen. Not that it will, but so that it can. The next stage is push boundaries. You have to cross some kind of social, physical, or emotional boundary. You have to grow. The third is increase, where you maximize the emotional value of the environment you're in.

So you went to grab some drinks with some friends. Well, if you're in a bar, maybe you can create a challenge. I challenge you to go talk to that group. I challenge you to whatever task it is. Get a free drink. Yeah. Something. It could be anything from tie a cherry stem with your tongue to like, you know, yeah, talk to strangers.

Or maybe there's some game like Buck Hunter or whatever. You could do whatever it is. Maybe there's some game like Buck Hunter or whatever. You could do whatever it is. You could do surprises, intrigue, where you draw people in through unknown elements to whatever it is. And then the last stage is continue. Here, you have to decide if you're going to go back through and loop through the process in a new location. And to consider that, you look at something called the rate.

The rate is the risk and unpredictability of the next location so if you increase risk it increases excitement you might want to do that if you want to uh make the group more active or if they've just experienced something very tough and you want to calm them down you want to reduce risk right activity and ambience so what you're actually going to be doing. Transportation, right? If I'm with somebody who's wearing high heels, I can't walk that far. If people have been drinking, we can't get behind the wheel of a car. Right. If we're a really large group, transportation in Ubers or cabs becomes complex.

Yes. So it has an effect on how far you can go. And if you decide to continue, you loop through the process. But otherwise, the E is for end with style. And so it's one of the most important things, and I cannot emphasize this enough, is to end with style. And the reason is researched by Nobel laureate Dan Kahneman. He wrote a book called Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow. He's one of the great minds of the past hundred years. And I think this will serve as an example of why. Let's say you go on a date. You're single. You are totally head over

heels for this person. It's your first date and you were just having the most incredible time. And it's three hours in and you realize that you're just about that point where like you guys are going to lean in for the kiss and the butterflies or you're feeling them. And in that moment, they look you in the eyes and say the most God awful thing you have ever heard in your life. And you go home and your friend asks, good date or bad date? And you say. Bad. Bad date.

It was good until the end. Yeah. But most people would be like, oh, it was a bad date. Yeah. So it's the last impression, right? Mm-hmm. So Kahneman discovered that we don't really process the duration of pleasure or pain. What we remember are the peaks of an experience and how they end.

To the point that he ran a series of experiments where people experienced more total pain, but because the ending was lower than it was earlier on, they preferred it to shorter and less pain. At the end. Yeah. Wow. So his experiment was about how adding more pain in terms of duration, but at a lower level. But finishing with style.

Yeah. Finishing at a lower pain point actually caused people to remember it more pleasantly. So it was like – Even if it's like agony the whole time, right? No, but it's seriously like they did with people who were getting a prostate exam, a proctological exam, and they left the instruments in a little bit longer but in a non-painful scenario and people remembered it more fondly. They also did one where they had people put their hands in ice water for 60 seconds versus

90 seconds. But in the 90 second version, the last 30 seconds, they slowly raised it one degree. And so it's a virtually imperceptible difference. But people were then asked, which do you want to repeat? And they chose 90 seconds of discomfort. Over 60. Yeah. Because it ended slightly better. Wow. That's fascinating.

So what happens is that people often try to push their experiences way past the point of enjoyment. And so what they'll end up remembering is something less fondly. Then they'll also be more tired the next day if it's at night, be regretful the next morning, and be less likely to participate in the future. So what you end up with is a confluence of negative feedback. And so the 2 a.m. principle is nothing good happens after 2 a.m. except the most epic experiences of your life. And epic is establish, push boundaries, increase, continue, the four stages of an adventure. So the book is designed to guide you through the process of living this epic life and know when to call it so you remember it fondly or when to push past those boundaries, ensuring

that you have this incredible experience. I love this. Make sure you guys go get the book, The 2AM Principle, Discover the Science of Adventure. Check it out right now. The book is out at this moment. I'll also have it linked up here in the show notes. I want to finish with a few final questions with you, John.

And one is, what are you most grateful for recently in your life? I have to say I'm constantly struck by how fortunate I am to have the friends and family that i do i you know who you end up with in terms of family is a lottery and i have an incredibly loving supportive uh family that and i was a difficult child dyslexic i grew up with all these learning disabilities and everything and they just stuck by me and i never thought i'd be able to write a book but they're like no you go me and you same man the same thing it's crazy uh and yeah i have

this incredibly supportive community of friends i've been very careful to to bring them together which is how we met yeah absolutely and i was like i want good people in my life so we ended up becoming friends absolutely uh and that's probably what i'm most thankful and what do you uh you also have the influencers dinner which – tell us quickly what that is and – Sure. So I looked at how to connect with the most influential people in our culture. I developed a model to understand it. A scientific model, of course.

Yes. Yes, exactly. And then from that, I created a dinner where 12 people are invited at a time. They're not allowed to talk about what they do or even give their last name. They cook dinner together. And when they sit down to eat, they get to find out who they're sitting with. And they find out that it's a famous author, a Nobel laureate, an Olympic medalist, a popular podcaster, and a best-selling author like yourself. And I've hosted over 800 people across 80-something dinners in seven cities, two countries.

We just launched a summer camp, which was insanity. And so I'm really, really proud that I've been able to convince that many people to cook me dinner. It's a cool experience. I've done it. And it was definitely cool. We didn't know. No one could ask what you do. And you're just kind of like having fun.

And your guard is kind of down because you're not trying to really impress anyone. You're just like connecting. And then, oh, the person across from me was a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Oh, I didn't even know that. You know, so it's like it's a cool experience. It's, I think, mind-boggling. Yeah, it's really cool. I remember.

You said you had like Isaiah Thomas cook you dinner one time and like wash your dishes or something like that. Yeah, yeah. So people's memories are often like I walked into John's house and Isaiah Thomas was washing dishes. That's funny. And he's the nicest guy. But at that same dinner, people were making guacamole and some tall woman, she was 5'10". I was talking about like her Division III basketball career and had no idea who she was telling about this. And so at the second half when we were sitting and guessing, everybody guessed what Isaiah does.

And he's like, actually, I'm a pretty popular basketball player. I was MVP this many times. A lot of people didn't know? Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, when you have that diversity of backgrounds. Yeah, that's true. And it was like 15 years ago or 20 years ago when he was playing. But he's one of the top 50 basketball players of all time.

And the woman literally like slumped in her chair, hit behind the napkin and goes, Isaiah Thomas? I bragged about my Division III basketball career to Isaiah Thomas? That's funny. What is wrong with me? And she didn't want to talk anymore. That's hilarious. Very cool. Yeah, you get these kind of odd moments.

I love it. Where can people learn more about that? The influencers? Yeah. So if you go onto my website, johnlevy.com, J-O-N-L-E-V-Y T like Thomas, L like lion, B like boy dot com. Then there's plenty of information. I think there's also

somebody made a Wikipedia page. Sure, sure. Pretty easy to get a hold of. You can just message me there. I'm happy to answer anything. Very cool. This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths.

Say it's the last day for you many, many years from now, and everything you've ever created has been erased from time, but you have a piece of paper to write down three things you know to be true about all the experiences, the adventures, the relationships, the times you've had in your life, three lessons that you would pass on to anyone important in your life or the world and that's all they would remember you by is these three truths. What would you

say are yours? The fundamental element that defines the quality of our lives are the people we surround ourselves with and the conversations that we have with them. By far. So surround yourself with people that really make a difference and who share your values or people you admire.

A second would be the size of your life is in direct proportion to how uncomfortable you're willing to be. So I hope you have a really uncomfortable life full of amazing experiences. I like that. bit and uh holding on to grudges anger uh all of those things regret uh or even your own embarrassment it's none of it's worth it uh it's not worth being angry at people it's not worth spending your life bitter there's just too much that needs to be done and that mental effort and energy could be used to build something extraordinary. So figure out how to let it go. I like this.

Those are great. Thank you. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, John, for being a curator of curiosity and adventure and allowing so many other people to follow in your footsteps to get out of their comfort zone and to live richer, fuller lives. to follow in your footsteps, to get out of their comfort zone, and to live richer, fuller lives. And for bringing so many incredible people together like you do for your dinners, your adventures, everything you do is all about community. Bringing people together, shared incredible experiences. So I want to acknowledge you for being a curator of curiosity and adventure, man. Thank you very much. Yeah, of course. I really appreciate that. Of course. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

really appreciate that. Of course. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness? So I think my definition of greatness has to do with looking at being. So if who I'm being is consistent with my values and what I want to create for the world, that is greatness. John, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. This was an absolute pleasure. I had a ton of fun. Thanks, man. There you have it. I hope you enjoyed this one, greats. I love that you continue to come back every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday when we release new episodes. 385. We're getting so close to 400.

It's getting crazy the amount of growth that this podcast has had over the years. I'm so grateful and blessed that it's almost always in the top 100 on iTunes. We get over 1.3 million downloads a month. We've got some incredible speakers coming up next. We've got Meatloaf, who is one of the most iconic singers and performers and actors of all time. He's coming on in the next episode. You're not going to want to miss this one with meatloaf, unbelievable storyteller and human being.

After that, we've got Ryan Blair, the, uh, mega, mega entrepreneur and multimillionaire who went from rock bottom to rock star and is a number one New York time bestseller. He's coming on after that.

We have TJ Dillashaw, former UFC champion of the world,ller. He's coming on. After that, we have TJ Dillashaw, former UFC champion of the world. Super pumped for him coming on. And some incredible guests coming up, guys. If this is your first time here, make sure to subscribe and leave a review over on iTunes because each week we've got more and more incredible, inspiring guests coming on to reveal and share their tips on how to be great as well. So make sure to subscribe. If you enjoyed this one, share it with your friends, lewishouse.com slash 385. Let me know what you think over on social media. Follow me everywhere

at Lewis House. Let me know how you're feeling so I can make sure to connect with you over there as well. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music Thank you.