The School of Greatness - 419 The Psychology of Healing Addiction and Trauma with Dr. Drew

Episode Date: December 14, 2016

"Nothing matters but the important relationships in your life." - Dr. Drew If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/419

This is episode number 419 with Dr. Drew. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone to episode 419.

We have Dr. Drew in the house. I'm very excited about this interview. We dove in deep about a lot of different topics that are interesting to me and I hope you find them interesting as well. We dove in deep about a lot of different topics that are interesting to me, and I hope you find them interesting as well. For those that don't know who Dr. Drew is, he's an American celebrity doctor who is board-certified internist, addiction medicine specialist, and media personality. He hosted the nationally syndicated radio talk show Loveline since the show's inception in 1984 until its end in 2016. inception in 1984 until its end in 2016. And on TV, he's hosted many shows, including Dr. Drew on Call, the daytime series Life Changers on The CW, and he's produced and starred in the VH1 show Celebrity Rehab with

Dr. Drew and its spinoffs, Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew, Celebrity Rehab Presents Sober House, and he hosts and is a part of many different radio and podcasts as well, which we'll talk about on this show. We talked about a lot today. I asked him about why he wanted to get into medicine in the first place and become a doctor and what his mission was growing up in that space and how it almost didn't happen. We talked about when becoming a media personality came to him and why he decided to jump into TV and radio during a booming part of his career. We talked about addictive substances and how to end addiction and if addiction is part

of a gene or if it's something that is caused because of a trauma either emotionally or physically in your life and how to end it. We talked about how to heal the mind and the body along any process of your journey. I asked Dr. Drew about his mission moving forward now that he's created so much in the world. And we talk about the things that he loves to talk about the most,

which is his philosophy on everything. Make sure to let me know what you guys think of this episode while you're listening to it over on Twitter and on Instagram. Just tweet me or tag me on Instagram, at Lewis Howes, and let me know what you guys think of this episode while you're listening to it over on Twitter and on Instagram. Just tweet me or tag me on Instagram at Lewis Howes and let me know. Share this with your friends, lewishowes.com slash 419. And let Dr. Drew know as well. All the ways you can connect with him are back on my show notes.

And you can watch the full video interview as well there. So without further ado, let me introduce to you the one the only dr drew welcome everyone to the school of greatness podcast we've got a living legend dr drew in the house good to see you man that's not the right word for me well i'm grateful you're here and um you know i've known about you for many years probably a decade of just watching different shows on TV which you've been on and that you've hosted and had. I'm just thinking, speaking of legends,

you have a legend. Your wall here is full of legends. You're a medical legend. That's a legend. You're a medical legend. There you go. But you help a lot of people. You heal a lot of people.

You help educate people with a lot of their trauma, getting over trauma. It's true. That's the type of stuff that people need the most is how to let go of things that hold them back from their greatness in my mind. Okay. If there's something in their mind that is consuming them, some type of addiction, some type of pain, aggression, resentment, lack of not forgiving people, then it's really

holding them back from connecting, from opening up, from being their true authentic self, which is holding them back from being the most creative, loving, risk-taking, joyful beings in the world. So you provide an incredible platform for decades to help people, whether it be from radio show to podcast to TV shows that you do to serve humanity. So I want to acknowledge you for your incredible service. Thanks. And we connected through Ryan Holiday. Try to connect me about a year ago to thanks um and we connected through ryan holiday connect trying to connect me about a year ago to you and we've just never been able to

ryan's a great guy right you asked me how'd you meet ryan ryan uh i'm i was giving i was going around i can't remember what it was it was something for something about oh my god it was for college kids like they took editors and writers from school newspapers and they had them meet with me. And I can't remember who was in the group, but it was just sort of, and I can't remember the conceit. It was sort of about what's going on at campuses and condoms. And I think the condom company was sponsoring it

and sort of what's going on in the male-female relationships. And it was sort of during the whole hookup era. It must have been 15 years ago, maybe 20, 15 years ago probably. And Ryan just came up to me afterwards and said, you know, what are you doing now? And I said, well, I'm reading the Stoic Philosophy. I'm just getting into it. You said this to him. Yeah.

That's like his biggest thing. Well, he says it in the book. He says thank you for turning him on to this. And I said, you know, Epictetus just kind of fascinates me right now. And I'm trying to sort of figure out, I'm just trying to fit things together, anthropology and philosophy and human experience and stuff. And I talked to him a few minutes about what I understood about Stoicism. And he just ran with it. He wrote a book called Daily Stoic that just came out.

But he also wrote Ego is the Enemy. Ego is the Enemy. And the Obstacle is the Way. Obstacle is the Way is the one that was written as uh off the stoic gotcha yeah like all of his books are based on this philosophy kind of and they just say just an article in new york times yeah and i called him he was on the front page of the style section and they pissed me off because if you didn't know ryan you would not see ryan in that article and uh as always uh the this is what makes me furious is that finding the truth out of press today, particularly print medium, is almost impossible.

It's impossible. They will not publish an article without first assuming that somebody who they're reporting on is a lying sack of shit. Really? That's the position the editor takes in all circumstances. Wow. And so it's always seen through this sort of prism of, well, we can't trust this guy. And they pitted Ryan against academic philosophers. And it's like, that's not what Ryan's trying to, he's not trying to argue with academics.

He's trying to improve sort of a platform for equality. An old philosophy might inform living today. It's all he was doing. Right. Yeah, yeah. But you guys stayed in touch for 15 years, I guess. Yeah, we stayed in touch all night. My kids, my son went and visited him in Austin the other day.

It was crazy. My kids idolize him and think he's great you have triplets right i do and how old are they 24 24 that's crazy what is that like what is that like well now that they're gone it's probably much different right yeah i mean the first five years my hair was darker than yours when they were born i kid you not and surprised you still have it. Right. And that was on full survival mode. Wow. And it was interesting. My wife and I sort of revivify those moments again looking back. And it's literally like one day we just decided, you know, we're just – it was like playing poker and going, well, here are my chips.

And we were all in on parenting. We were just – that's our job now is we're parents. I really felt like I was sitting at a table taking my bed going okay i'm putting it over here on child rearing but 24 years ago you were also building your career and getting in the media and doing i was not really thinking about media then at all uh love line i think was one day a week back then it was just i thought i was doing community service on the radio that's funny and i was practicing full time i would get up at five in the morning i would struggle to get home by 10 at night. And I did that for years. And I had sort of three or four different jobs. I had an inpatient medical practice, which includes intensive care medicine, which I was pretty good at,

and outpatient medical practice. And then at that point, I think I was running the medical services in a psychiatric hospital that eventually morphed into running their addiction services. So I had those three things going all the time for many, many, many years. And that was here in L.A.? Yeah, Pasadena. Wow. Yeah, and so I sort of had kind of three careers crammed into one for a couple decades. And that sort of, to me, looking back, that was so much work.

And it was almost like, in retrospect, almost like a little dream state, living, seeing upwards of 60 patients a day and all it was really sick and it was pretty interesting yeah why did you get into this uh the medical profession in the first place uh it's an interesting story uh my dad was a doctor it was always assumed i'd be a doctor and then i went to college and i was always good at science and math and stuff and i went to college and i was like well screw this this is i am not this i did like a semester of pre-med i'm like these people are smart i am not up for this and i messed around for about a year and a half i left college for a while i just was like lost really lost and after about 18 months i was like maybe that medical thing was something i should really think about again because i was absolutely rejecting it for a long time and i

thought i wonder and i started feeling the more i thought about the more i felt good and i thought all right i'll give it a try and as i got back into it something about the male brain male brain does not fully myelinate the frontal lobe doesn't come online until you're about 26 and certainly at 17 when i went away to college in massachusetts i was not ready right and at 19 all of a sudden i was ready i could do this stuff and it was like and not only was i ready to do it i had to like double down because i was running out of time and so i did it and it was and it was every step although it was high wire act getting it all done every step i felt more and more and more and more sort of euphoric about the decision.

And then I'll never forget, I can almost see the hospital where I trained just on the other side of those buildings. No, no, no. The other side of downtown. The other side of downtown. I think you can kind of see the old county hospital up there on the hill. If it wasn't as hazy right now, yeah, you'd be able to see it. No, I think I can kind of see the old county hospital up there on the hill. The one that's hazy right now, yeah, you'd be able to see. No, I think I see it. And the first four years of medical school that I see were there.

And I remember walking out of the parking lot every day my first year and going, oh, my God, I love this. I'm so lucky. This is it, man. I have found what I want to do. And then later in residency. You're like, why did I do this? No, no, no. I really dug it. I liked my training. It was intense. want to do and then later in residency you're like why did i do this no no no i really i found

my i really dug it i really i liked my training i know it was intense but i i the dread some dread set in later when i was over my workaholism really was kicking in right when you had no life it's zero life and no sleep and uh but i was it was because i was so into what i was doing i started gorging on it, I think. Wow. When was like the first experience of you in your practice where you felt like, wow, this is, I'm so glad I did this because of the impact I had or because of the transformation someone had or the healing or a person or a moment where you're like, wow. No, because you're inundated in that all the time. And what I do remember, that had started happening in medical school.

I remember even just being able to alleviate pain was a big deal, things like that. But later on, sort of much later on, actually, I'm always studying philosophy and anthropology, trying to figure out the human experience. And Aristotle had a thing about the good life. And he was saying, you know, service is really important. Wherever you get to it, you find giving back, being a sort of being the other. The other is how you find meaning in life. Always, always, always. And Aristotle was taking a position that you had to have technique, which is skill.

And this is the part that people miss, that they always go, I want to be of service. I'm ready. Let's go. And that's great. And you can go lay it all to sleep. Everyone can do something. But if you have a skill, if you spend time developing skill where you can really make a difference, that is a profound experience. And he always said it was wisdom, technique.

He had a bunch of criteria you needed to really lead a good life. We leave that skill development part off sometimes because you don't think of it that way. I think you have to develop that skill to be of service. It takes a lot of time and a lot of energy to develop a skill that's really impactful these days. Even to be of service to a company or an entrepreneur, I get a lot of people that email me and say, I will move to LA and work for you for free. But I'm like, what can you provide? What skills do you have? And they're like, well, I'll do

whatever you need. And I'm like, to be honest, it's going to take more time for me to train you and figure things out. People miss that part. They don't understand that. It's not worth you working for free if it's going to take up all my time and energy to think about what I can put you in. If you really think about it, it's probably why apprenticeships developed and why schools developed because somebody said we got to pay me to do this exactly stuff yeah and that's where

a profession developed exactly yeah wow so when did the whole media type of thing get involved when you start doing like tv and complete accident uh yeah uh radio was again i was very i really got involved radio 1983 because it was just happening in my neighborhood and somebody asked me to help out in this thing and I was like, Jesus, no one's talking to young people about HIV. It was grids then, gay-related testicle disease syndrome.

Wow. And I thought, somebody's got to talk. It was just an instinct. I had somebody needs to tell, sort of, you know, rock and roll radio had such a, had such a negative impact on people's behavior from the standpoint of their sexual behavior and their drug use.

And so I said, somebody needs to infiltrate this and turn the ship around. And especially with this thing coming, I could see what was happening because we were putting people on the ground every day. Really? Oh, yeah. We didn't know what it was. I would sit down. By my third year of medical school, I was sitting down with patients every day and saying, you have six months to live. No way.

Every day. That's scary. And I was never wrong. patients every day and saying, you have six months to live. No way. Every day. That's scary. And I was never wrong. And that's just what it was. We didn't even name for it yet. It was just starting to be called AIDS. We did not have a causative agent. It started to be called HTLV-3.

Remember that? And then HIV-1. And then HIV-2. We didn't know what we were dealing with. But it quickly, quickly evolved into something weird. And in LA, it was spreading. Oh, ground weird. In L.A., it was spreading. Oh, ground zero. Ground zero.

It was very – people forget how dark that was. And so that motivated me to get on and talk about it and help try to change people's understanding of the biology of their sexual behaviors, which was not being discussed anywhere at the time, especially not to young people. And I did that one night a week for years and years, and then all of a sudden somebody wanted to do it one night a week for years and years and then all

of a sudden somebody wanted to do it five nights nights a week i was like oh crap and i was like where am i gonna do that you're working all day in your practice then you go then i'd go do radio and i sort of found a way to do that and the literally the week that they decided to put it on five nights a week was the week my wife got pregnant with triplets oh my gosh oh my gosh is right what do i do now yeah and um yeah and uh And then these guys turned up and wanted to do a TV show. I was like, that sounds interesting. What's that? How do you do that?

Right. It was just an exploration. That was Loveline on MTV. That was 1996. Wow. So I'd already been doing radio for 13 years at that point. And it just turned to this thing. TV, too.

I was just like, well, I've got Friday afternoon and Saturday afternoon. If you can do it then we'll do it otherwise i can't do it i'm not gonna do it you don't want to sacrifice your practice and you're no leave me alone my whole thing was leave me alone to practice medicine i i can't this media thing is interesting and i hope and it's fun it has a huge impact and i i think it's right but it was just sort of an exploration for me it wasn't something that i was committed to until about 2010 when I was doing a lot of television. I thought, oh, man, you've got to look in the mirror and admit to yourself you're on to your second career. And that's when I stopped doing the psychiatric stuff and let go of the inpatient medical practice, and I just do outpatient medicine now. Wow.

So how often are you working with outpatients? Every day. Every day. In some fashion every day, whether it's emails or phone calls or something. Right. But you're doing a lot more media now. So now since 2011, really, I just said, okay, that's it. You're doing television radio. This is your life. Go do it. Go do it.

Wow. And how has it been since the transition? It's been interesting. It's fun. It's different. It's challenging. What's the biggest challenge for you? Keeping the plates spinning and, you know, finding things people want to watch that also do good. I think that's the hardest thing is doing things that are really still, you know, mission critical, which is making a difference, which is all I really care about, and getting it watched. It's got to be interesting. It's got to be media be interesting it's gotta be media and it's really hard because people aren't watching really anything anymore except nonsense

they're watching the kardashians you know so how do you make a reality show that people will watch it's hard so you got to have a lot of drama but also you got to have some kind of love teaching and some solutions yeah transformation and it's all got to be covert because you be in a white coat no good man that's interesting but i like it i like the creative process i like i've got about Solutions and transformations. And it's all got to be covert because you'd be in a white coat. No good. Man. So it's interesting, but I like it. I like the creative process. I've got about nine or ten different things I'm trying to work on and see if they'll – New shows right now?

Yeah. Nine or ten different shows. Yeah, because I know you have to do that because only – It's a miracle that anything gets on television. It's a miracle. For one season and then two seasons is like – That's like infinitely, infinitely unlikely. Yeah. It's a miracle. For one season and then two seasons is like... That's like infinitely, infinitely unlikely.

Yeah. It's like Rob Dyrdek. He's hit the mark on ridiculous news. He just gets on season after season. Yeah, yeah. It's the most profoundest niche. Well, but to be fair,

I mean, he was sort of doing, you know, more... He had multiple different businesses and things and he had different ways of doing it and he had a good vision and he executed it well. Yeah.

Wow. So you're constantly looking looking you're constantly thinking of new ideas around medicine and practice and therapy or addiction and things like that right no no no new ideas on television yes not necessarily i i i'm more interested in like i'm doing some writing some scripted things i'm interested in just showing people about the human experience generally and if they learn about mental health if they get really what i want them to learn i'll feel very grateful but i just am interested in showing them about the human experience what's the biggest thing you learned about the human experience and all your work yeah to me it's to me it's um i i i because it's becoming background for me now. You know, I'm so steeped in all this.

But I would say that the thing that I'm thinking about all the time that might be interesting to other people is how bodily based a lot of our experiences are. That the idea of, you know, looking in the brain for all the answers is a huge mistake. The brain is a processing unit. There's a lot of stuff going on there. But we've got these other systems that are very complex that are distributed through our body that have a lot to do with the particularly interactive, intersubjective experience of being in and around other people and the self. And that really is the foundation of intuition

and all these other things that really are sort of magical, in my opinion. And then the other thing is how much, so much the human experience is about the embedded context, which is other people. Wow. Okay. And so I work on that biology all the time, all the time.

It's very complicated. It's a complex biology. And the psychodynamic aspects of it, how it's experienced, and then how I can be useful as an instrument, it takes a lot of time, a lot of training. Again, that's that technique part that Aristotle pointed out. Wow. So what should we be focusing on if we're feeling like we're held back in any way? We as an individual?

Yeah, like whether it be emotionally, physically, mentally, health. Should we be focusing on the body? Well, I mean, your health is, you know, your physical health first, right? I mean, you don't have that. You don't got much. And certainly, you know, your nutrition and your exercise and your routines in the day. And I would say paramount above all that is your important

relationships, make sure they're healthy and good. And if they're not get help with that, because there are armies of people that know how to do that. Um, and it really is about then, you know, sitting with another human being with a skillset who knows how to help you craft a new relationship and sort of developing that with you so then you can take it out in the world. And I went to therapy for 11 years. Yeah. And I'm pretty healthy emotionally.

Right. But I was very, I wanted to really dig into it. And it was very important for me. I mean, that was, again, as much a part of my training as my sort of formal training was. Would you say our closest relationships and most intimate relationships affect our body and our mind the most? Or is it more based on our relationship with ourselves?

No, it's other people. Way more impactful than anything going on as an autonomous. Can affect our emotional health, our mental health, physical health. Everything's about the other. Everything. Really? But the problem is, the problem is we get stuck in these characteristic patterns and so whatever is going on in our relationship with other people

is built on some much earlier structures uh and really sort of fundamentally our our biggest uh sort of these days at least our biggest job is to regulate ourselves emotionally, to be able to integrate holistically all aspects of who this being is from within the brain, within the skull, and throughout the body, and how that is experienced with the other person. So I get to have all these crazy experiences with other people because I'm way open to it. I've been in very intense experiences with very sick people with very heavy traumas. And so, you know, I become kind of a weird

sort of a mind reader because I get to, you know, how my body responds to sitting around with a person informs me a ton, a ton. And especially working with addicts and alcoholics, what they're saying is normally bs it's normally just a lot of i i just i almost don't listen to what they're saying what do they usually say what's they're just they're complaining complaining complaining complaining complaining

about about their their life their loved one their care their whatever that's the state i you know i deal with the very very sick in the very early parts of their treatment that's sort of my specialty and i'll just sit and I'll listen. I'll listen not just with my ears. I'll listen with my whole body. And so how I'll start feeling funny things and I'll go, well, I don't normally feel that. Or I'll hear music or I'll, you know what? I'll have all kinds of strange experiences.

And I'll stop them. I go, I'm having experience. I wonder if that's meaningful to you. Inevitably. Inevitably. It'll be deep. It's a substantive. And they'll be able to go, how did you know?

And, you know, it forms a connection now where the person starts to trust that they're really being heard and understood. And, you know, a big part of treatment is just hearing that other person and letting them know that they're heard. That's half the battle, huh? That's the beginning. That That's half the battle, huh? That's the beginning. That is not half the battle. That is the opening volley that allows the battle to play on. Then they feel like they can express all the things that are hurting them. Then they feel like they're in a safe environment and they're contained. What's called the context, the frame where they can be held safely,

where they can start to have interesting experiences. Wow. And they don't do that in normal life. In normal life, we just sort of interact. You mentioned the self earlier, and that self is sort of a highly structured phenomenon that relates in very predictable ways with other people, and we tend to seek out certain kinds of people that fit with that. That's not good.

That's limiting. That's limiting. These days, it's a, very, these days, it's the very rare person that is as open as you described in your opening volley where you're, where you're truly open to every, you know, everything and have that creative experience happening all the time. Yeah. That's rare. Right. Yeah. What would you say is the, the root of addiction then? Well, root of addiction, fundamentally addiction is a genetic problem, right? And so you either have that gene or you don't.

And it's not aging. It's a genetic burden. And it may be a mild burden, maybe a heavy burden genetically. And then that typically has to get activated by some kind of environmental hit. And that environmental hit can be just simply I'm a truck driver and I need to stay up all night so i'm taking meth but typically if you get bad enough addiction that you need to see me that environmental hit is trauma childhood trauma interpersonal trauma and that emotional sexual abuse whatever and and that ruptures the the frame of where people develop that capacity for emotional regulation so they never re-enter the frame in a in an open way again and they start trying to

regulate any way they can well they find drugs and alcohol that works and off they go so they end up by the time i see them there's two problems there's severe addiction and whatever comes with that the neurobiological consequences the and all the everything comes with addiction and then there's the trauma so you know you can't still cannot... You're still holding on to. Oh, sure. It's in their body. It's embedded in them. It's not... It doesn't...

It's fixed. It's a fixed phenomenon once somebody's been traumatized. And... But that trauma can't really be treated until the addiction is well in hand. You can't start treating the trauma straight off the top.

First of all, they can't access it. And secondly, it just fuels the addiction. They're going to... You've got to stop the addiction first. You've got to treat the addiction first. You've got to treat the addiction. Treat the addiction and then you can address the trauma.

Maybe. At some point, hopefully. Wow. Yeah. And that may be six weeks, six months, six years down the line. It depends on the case.

So it takes a long time to treat a real addiction. What's the most effective experience or process that you take people through to kind of let go of that trauma and acknowledge it and then allow it to be not holding them back their whole life? Yeah, but it takes long periods of time to treat that. Again, you're talking about changing the wiring of the brain.

The whole system, yeah. And the brain wires very slowly and then it has to be, as we always say, when you repeat the behavior or the experience, the wiring becomes more fixed. So you have to sort of create the wiring and then re-experience and re-experience and re-experience. So the wire becomes fixed. So the regulation becomes more fixed. And that takes, you know, brain grows slowly, super slowly. And unfortunately, there isn't any resources for that these days. Most people can't afford it.

A lot of practitioners don't practice that kind of treatment because there's nobody that can do it. It's very sad. Thankfully, 12-step itself is configured in such a way that if done properly, some of that treatment happens automatically. People in 12-step

in their relationship with their sponsor will create a frame, will have intense experiences with that person. That person hopefully, having gone through it themselves, will be sort of open to that and that creates a version of trauma therapy in my opinion. How many people would you say in America or the world have

addictive genes? About 10%. 10% are addictive? The potential, yeah yeah have that genetic potential and you know the really interesting question is you know well this is such a bad disease why does it why didn't this gene evolve out of the gene pool a long time ago right it's been fixed seemingly for a long time so how would you answer that question hey why does this gene persist in the human population well it must have some adaptive advantage, right? It must be something about it that's useful, that also has

a liability. And what I've found, and this is sort of a simplistic way of looking at this, but there's clear adaptive advantage in extreme circumstances. So addicts, before they develop their disease, before they develop addiction, make great extreme athletes,

fighter pilots, all these extreme situations. Physicians are, yeah. Physicians, yeah. Again, military, you know, short stops. They're fantastic at that. So when you look at populations that are repeatedly assaulted, like even genocidal military assaults, you see the gene for addiction just come up like crazy. So you look at

isolated populations, particularly Scotland, Ireland, where there was multiple generations of extreme brutality, alcoholism emerges. These are the survivors. They survive better in extreme adversity. Now when you're out in a normal civilization

with peace, this other thing emerges, this thing we call alcoholism or addiction. Wow. Yeah. This is fascinating. How long have you been studying this addiction in general? This particular thing?

Really got into it in the late 80s, early 90s. Okay. And I was running medical services in a psychiatric hospital, and all the medical problems were down in the drug unit. I became an expert in drug withdrawal. And then, lo and behold, I got interested. I watched some people have these amazing recoveries.

And I just thought, what was that? How does that work? I didn't learn about that in medical school. What the hell happened? And I learned a lot about it in the school what the hell happened and uh he learned a lot about it next 10 years how many i guess of peak performers or extreme athletes or you know creatives or artists or musicians at a top level how many of those individuals would you say have addictive personalities ones are obsessed with peak performance and achieving i don't know that that you know obsessed with perfection is different than uh I make a good fighter pilot. It's a little different because sort of the system calls down to people that just matter of factly with or without the genetics.

I mean, there are many other factors that go into these personality characteristics that result in people craving performance, I would say. So I would bet it's a relatively low number. Gotcha, gotcha. And what would you say is more traumatic in general, the emotional abuse or the sexual abuse that people go through? Well, sexual abuse is pretty shattering, especially if it's at the hand of somebody they trust

because the body is violated in addition to the emotional system. And unfortunately, I think we just went through an epidemic. I remember back in the 90s, I was having to convince people that that it happened it was so weird like oh well you're just talking about it more no no we it is happening at an extraordinary rate and then unfortunately there was a big period uh later 90s where there was child and child sexual abuse which was also very child on child yeah a child that has been sexually abused by an adult will act out on other children and this just happens it's just how it goes she doesn't know and uh and that is traumatizing for

the objects of that abuse and so we had this huge wave of that and and people didn't really know that that was so traumatizing they because the trauma survivor always sort of thinks the trauma is something they have quote dealt with i dealt with that it's no problem it's back it's and what that is is a walling off neurologically of the experiences and the pieces of self that are so hurt and injured and then the body is also sort of unregulated and often cut off i mean there's different wiring as a result of this yeah and so people end up with chronic pain syndromes and all kinds of stuff that addiction or well addiction is the the other thing that's that That's if they have that gene and the trauma.

But yeah, the sort of experience of the self and the body is all disconnected, dissociated, we call that. And there can be bodily-based dissociation. There can be self-dissociations, emotional dissociations. And their main means of regulation is by disconnecting. And then what comes out of the body is sort of an unregulated and scary bit of neurological material that can't be processed. It's interesting. I was sexually abused when I was five by a man that I didn't know when I was at the babysitters.

And I remember for 25 years I didn't open up about it. I didn't talk about it because I was so guilty, shameful. Yeah, you felt responsible for it. Everything. I was just like, I don't want people to feel bad. I don't want people to look at me differently. And I remember being always so aggressive whenever I felt like, in sports specifically, I took all my aggression out in sports.

I was driven to be a great athlete. And anytime I felt like anyone was trying to attack me in any way, whether it be verbally or like a physical little sidearm or something or just whatever i would react in such a you know just aggressive manner like i couldn't control it it was like i always felt like i had to defend myself my manhood my whatever yeah until everybody so so what happens is is that you know every threat becomes potentially that again. It's crazy. So you go from zero to 100 with –

So quick. People always be like, why are you reacting so much? That's why I hate the idea of anger management. What, you're going to manage that anger? No. Couldn't even control it. No. You're going to deal with the trauma, and then the anger goes away or reduces.

Exactly. Or it can be focused, or you you can use it that kind of thing and so a few years ago i finally went through an experience where i started talking about it i started sharing with all my family members my friends i started opening up about it all the time good and went through an experience like a physical experience where i really just released it all you know just emotionally doesn't really work like that but you had a big experience. A huge experience where I felt like it didn't own me anymore. Yeah.

And I can talk in front of you calmly without freaking out. Like if I thought of this three years ago, there's no chance I would have opened up to you or thought about it. Yeah, yeah. And by no means am I perfect. I still react and get aggressive

and things like that, but it's like I'm so aware. Well, you know what would be really good is something called EMDR. I've heard of that. Yeah, because the idea is that'm so aware. Well, you know what would be really good is something called EMDR. I've heard of that. Yeah, because the idea is that there's still a piece of you that is sort of left behind, and your body can't reacquaint itself with it

without specialized kinds of care. Yeah. It literally has to be in another person, metabolized and handed back in a weird way. Right, right. And you can't do it by yourself. You just can't. You can improve it like you've done. literally has to be in another person metabolized and handed back in a weird way. Right. And you can't do it by yourself. You just can't. You can improve it like you've done.

You've done great things. This is awesome. Yeah. But to really get that little piece brought back into the whole so you can be a whole thing again requires a little specialized treatment. It may not be that much even after you've done too much work on your own. But it is something that I just have never seen it spontaneously. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's been three years,

and I've been working on it consistently. Good. But I think I still have a lot more work to do, obviously. But, you know, what you were talking about, we kind of contain it. For 25 years, I contained it, and I didn't talk about it. And I was like, oh, that's in the past. Oh, I'm down with it.

I'm fine with that. No big deal. I don't need to talk about it. Yeah, it's all good. But then I realized when I opened up, like, I was, whoops. I was, like, trembling and crying. It was just, like, everything. It was just, like, a release of, like, this fear and pain and, you know, healing, everything at once.

I couldn't, like, control my body. You know, it was unbelievable, the process. And I think that's, you know, if anyone, I've talked about this many times in the podcast now, and I've had other people talk about their experiences of any type of sexual or emotional abuse. But I feel like that's one of the things that holds us back the most. Well, I was emotionally abused growing up. And I was left with a lot of feelings of emptiness. Yeah.

And disconnect and anxiety. I had anxiety, anxiety, anxiety. And I still have anxiety disorder. I'm sort of wired that way. Which is fine. I can use that as an, you can use all these things as assets later you know all that anger stuff like for sports you used it exactly you did it i channeled it yeah um but um the emptiness was a real challenge for me uh and i found that in a really well managed what's called that in a really well-managed what's called mentalizing therapy or transference therapy you can be safe in a frame to fall into that emptiness and then learn to come in and out of it and then it goes away imagine that because

it feels like it's just there and and I don't know how that really I can tell you experientially how it happens but no one really knows how it happens it's probably different for different people. But what I found is I would actually just go into these. A guy named Alan Shore, who really writes a lot of the neurobiological material on this, he wrote a book called Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self, which is my Bible.

And he calls them trauma-associated dead spots. I just call it emptiness. And you'll fall into them, and the therapist has to be very skilled at keeping you there and getting you out. Wow. And then you start going in and out, and then it goes away.

And that's that specialized. For me, that was my version of the specialized care I needed in order to really close this wound. Sure. Yeah, it's funny because I channeled all my aggression and anger into sports to being the best that I could. That's good. I was skilled and I trained like a maniac.

And all my sports dreams and goals, I achieved them. But it's funny, after I achieved every one of them, I always felt empty and lonely. I always felt like, oh, it's not enough. I'm still not good enough. I still need to create more. But isn't that what people talk about is filling the void. It's never enough. It's like people make lots of money. It's never enough. Never enough. People have lots of women's not enough. I'm still not good enough. I still need to create more. But isn't that what people talk about is filling the void. It's never enough. That's why people make lots of money.

It's never enough. People have lots of women. Never enough. And that's the nature of how we're configured as human beings. Once we get one of these injuries, we do what we can as individuals to fill it. It will not fill without the other. Bottom line.

And the way you're connected to the other it has to be a very it's has to be different than what you're accustomed to yeah because what you're accustomed to will be based on the wiring of the trauma right right yeah and trauma does the other crazy and this is the craziest thing of all and i see see a lot in culture and in a lot of people's behaviors and stuff is it makes us reenact the trauma. We will create relationships and circumstances. We'll be attracted. This is the part that people miss. We'll be attracted to people and circumstances that are much like the perpetrators in the environment which our original trauma occurred, no one knows.

And people, it's just how we work as humans. The real question is, what is the evolutionary, you know, in the environment of evolution adapted us, why do we develop this thing? Why do we do that? And I think it has something to do, my suspicion is, I spend a lot of time thinking about garbage like this, but my suspicion is it allows us then to transmit information about major traumas that affected populations in the remote past. In other words, if you're going to try to transfer information about what happened in Egypt during the Passover, if you try to tell that story generation and generation, it's going to get lost. But if we engage in a ritual every year,

where we reenact the trauma, we're never going to forget this. And we still do Passover today, many thousands of years later. But that story would have never lasted. But the ritual does. And so in a weird way, it's sort of a ritual reenactment of the trauma so it must have had an adaptiveness for the population but for the individual it's maladaptive right does that make sense of course yeah yeah okay interesting speaking of rituals what's a ritual that you think or that you do or you think everyone should do on a daily basis to live a rich full healthy life do some kind of physical exertion something and and i i for me i'm an i'm an auditory learner that's why maybe i'm liking podcasting and by the way i have two very important

podcasts i want to promote i forgot go for it one's called this you got to go to dr.ru.com to get on my podcast i do one with adam carolla still yeah i'm a dr drew podcast great i do another one on the carolla uh network called the dr drew podcast was sort of celebrity and medical related then i do something called Weekly Infusion with another doctor. If you are a Corolla fan, it's Dr. Spaz, Dr. Bruce Heishover, which is strictly medically related, but it's sort of medical incredible stuff. And then I do another one with Bob Forrest, the guy with the hat and glasses that I did the celebrity rehab with.

And that's called This Life. So please, This Life and Weekly Infusion needs your help. So please, everybody, go to Dr. Drew.com. Listen to those. Thank you. DrDrew.com, iTunes. Listen to Lewis. But anyway, what should you do every day?

My thing is you must physically exert yourself every day in some fashion. At least five days a week. You're not doing – you're underserving your body. And what that – as they always say, what exercise should you do? The one you'll do. The one you sweat exercise should you do? The one you'll do. The one you sweat. Whatever it is, yeah. The one you will do.

I don't care if it's playing handball. I don't care if it's lifting weights. The one you will do, the one you should do. Because you'll, you know, we all have our own sort of zone for what we like and we'll do.

And I like lifting weights, so I will lift weights every day. My garage is filled with stuff. That's cool. Are you still in Pasadena? Yeah, yeah. And I will literally go down there. Like, as soon as we finish here, I think I have like a half hour every day my garage is filled with stuff that's cool are you still in pasadena yeah yeah and i will literally go down there like i'm as soon as we finish here i think i have like a half hour

somewhere i'm gonna cram it i'll go downstairs my garage do it and but the other piece this is the other thing that i think is important is some so my wife is texting me uh some sort of um uh meditative something something for your brain and me, it's listening to lectures. I listen to lectures about, you hear me already, anthropology and philosophy and psychology and stuff. But I'm a very astute auditory learner, so I can lift weights and listen and really take in the information.

I understand everyone's brain's not configured that way. Sure. But for me, it's almost, it's elevating whatever brain state I'm in so whatever that means to you that's what you should do while you're working wow what's the one audio book or lecture or book that people should read oh my god you're going you're taking me down the nerd path because stuff i love hey it's cool you know i want to know what you love. Stuff I love. To optimize their health or their stuff.

There isn't such a thing. Okay. Listen to what you – here's what I like. I like iTunes U. You ever been to iTunes U? Oh, my God. Every university in the world essentially submits – it's an app, and they'll submit their great courses. And you can listen to – Free. Wow, and they'll submit their great courses. And you can listen to it.

Free. You can listen to the great courses. And I'm telling you, Yale and Berkeley and Emory are my favorite. They have the best stuff up online. All right, I'll tell you what. Here's my – Emory has – I'm going to see what my thing is. Well, here's my page. I'm going to Instagram story this while we're doing this.

Emory has something called the Center for Mind, Brain, and Culture. Let's see it. Let me see. This is your page. Well, this is one of my pages. Dr. Drew's page on iTunes, right? Your courses. Wow.

Look at this. Super nerd. But I have pages and pages of this. I mean, it goes and goes and goes. And it's this app. That's the app right there, right? Oh, I've seen that. Yes, yes, yes.

And I listen to an hour of lecture every day. And now I'm having trouble finding the one. There's some good ones. The UCTV has some great stuff. Carta. Jeez, Chicago has great stuff. Yale has great stuff. Amazing.

But I started with the basics, you know? I just started with great ideas. Right, right. That's stuff but I started with the basics I just started with great ideas that's really what I started with just really making myself familiar with the great ideas and going from there what are you you've done so much in your career you've helped so many people

you have like 40 hours in a day you do 7 shows a day it seems like all these different podcasts, I don't know how you do it all you're healing 60 clients a day. You do seven shows a day, it seems like, like all these different podcasts. I don't know how you do it all. You're healing 60 clients a day. You're doing everything. I'm manic. Manic, yeah.

You've got three triplets. I'm hypomanic, I think. You're driving all over the place. You have to drive from Pasadena to West Hollywood, which takes four hours of traffic. But I found a way to use that time. I listen to the iTunes. You learn. Or I make phone calls.

I do business. I make phone calls. I talk to patients, whatever is needed. You can always use your time. Or I make phone calls. I do business. I make phone calls. I talk to patients, whatever is needed. You can always use your time. You can use your time. When I was a kid, I've never talked about this. This is an interesting idea. When I was a kid, I always wanted to take my home with me if I had to go away.

I had this dream that I could shrink my house into a – something about my home was very, I don't know, reassuring to me. I don't know uh it wasn't the happiest place for me but but it felt like i wanted to take it with me and my dad would always say just think about it figure it out he goes think people figures more different more difficult things out figure that out figure out a shrink your home and then land it wherever you want it and and as i early on i bought into that and later i was like come on stop it get me to go how about at least give me motivation to do something that's possible stop it but then i started realizing that what i was interested in was sort of internally taking my home with me

right so being an inside thing and the travel part was somehow something that i didn't like and and so i found ways to use travel as something other than travel whether it's on a plane or in a car that's time to do work or listen to things to learn things and so i don't think of it as travel anymore i just think of it as study hall going to school yeah yeah it just happens to be the time so i don't think of it as travel anymore. I just think of it as study hall. Going to school. Yeah, yeah. It just happens to be the time. So I don't regret my travel time anymore. I used to hate it.

Right. And now we have smartphones. Yeah, and I can do a lot of stuff. So I'm going to get in a car accident, of course. But somehow that early idea that he planted became this. Interesting. That's cool. You know, when I moved here four and a half years ago.

Where'd you move from? I'm from Ohio. Yeah. Moved to New York City for a year and a half and then moved here for a girl. Of course. Didn't work out quickly. Good times.

And great lessons, though. And it all works out in the end. But I remember driving on the 10 in traffic one day trying to get like two miles. We're going to devolve into an episode of the SNL California. Exactly. We took the 10 to the 405.

Remember that episode. When did you get off the 91? Yeah, it was hilarious. And I remember sitting and I was like, just going through this breakup. I was frustrated. I was like,

why did I leave New York? It was amazing. I was at the top of the world. And I was like, there's got to be a better way to be in this traffic and inspire people who are frustrated like me

in this moment. Yeah. And that's where School of Greatness came from. Oh, good for you. See? I was like, I want to create somewhere where people are traveling. They have some inspiration. They can learn something from the most inspiring people in the world like yourself.

Wonderful. Yeah. We have about 10 minutes left because I want to make sure I'm on time for you. Okay. Thank you. You've done so much in your career. What's your vision and mission moving forward? Everything I've done has always been without a blueprint.

I don't know quite. And to me, that's sort of part of the creative process. That's cool, yeah. For me, it's been all about being willing to take risk and open a door and walk through it and see what's there. Because I've done some pretty scary stuff for a physician yeah you know put yourself on the line a lot yeah and and i've always just been willing to do that if i my instinct was that it would be good for people in the long run that i do it would do something good um because i i know that as we talked about

earlier in the hour i gotta trust people that know how to attract eyes. If I'm going to make a difference, those eyes have to be there. Absolutely. And so that means creating environments that I may not be familiar with or feel comfortable with. But, okay, let me see if I can make it into something worthwhile and deliver some good information. And that started back in 1983 when I showed up on that radio show. And I was like, oh, my God, what is this? And I went through some very tough times with that on every front.

I've always been taking heat for stuff I've wanted to do to help because I know, I know you can't just do it the way doctors would traditionally do it, the way we would do it as didactic teachers. It just doesn't work, not on a mass scale. Wow. And media has a huge impact. And it needs physicians it needs our point of view it's not enough you guys doing it and we have to be willing to be creative and different in how we approach it and we've got to lay

off our peers that decide to do it yeah support them so yeah did I answer that question I think so you're vision and mission moving forward no no the mission moving forward is just keep one foot in front of the other for as long as my blood pressure. Yeah, as long as I can handle it.

I wish I had more of a mission, really, because it would be probably more comfortable. You know what I mean? At least I had a track to roll down. I sort of could gauge myself better. Well, with no mission, you're still doing great. But so much of my stuff does not have a precedent. So I'm sort of always in kind of a frontier sort of mode. You're scaring me talking about it.

I'm all about having a vision and just being like, you know, as an athlete, every season at the beginning of the season, our coach would have on the chalkboard, okay, what's our vision for the next three months? Yeah, I get that. What do we want to achieve? So it's a period of time, not like your whole life. get that and and with things with athletic performance i think that's necessary because you're always having to you know eke out little improvements which make a big difference relative to the next guy in my world it's more like a philosophy and so that's

sort of what i have is and you've i've been talking about my philosophy uh and i think that's sort of what I have. And I've been talking about my philosophy. And I think that's something I work on every day is what is that philosophy and how can I improve that and how can I make a difference, more of a difference, and how can I bring that understanding to bear and use it in a way that helps people. It's very simple. Have fun, do good, make a difference. Yeah, simple life. Who's been the most influential person in your life and what's the biggest lesson they taught you my dad was a pretty big influence he was sort of a pain in the ass but he was a pretty big influence

uh his thing was always put patients first and that was pretty good. In fact, I bought onto that even more than he did. The work thing from him. He was a workaholic too. I think that was an important thing. I had a professor in college that was very influential. He's sort of out of vogue now, but I just liked the way he made me think and a guy named hedley arkis that is now being attacked because he's he takes very rigid

sort of points of view but he made me think about philosophy and things that i'd not thought about and i was busy out in the sciences and stuff too and so to have a political science professor make me think in a new way whether i agreed with his point of view or not was important to me um i'm sure if i thought about it i put 30 people on that list yeah i mean it depends i had a psychiatrist colleague that was deeply impactful on me i want to write about him a little bit this guy that studied it was a psychoanalyst who was in psychiatry for 50 years and she sort of saw the whole arc of all what was happening in psychiatry. And I sort of listened to him and spent a lot of time talking to him and adopting his philosophies and things.

I had medical trainers, trainees. I had a professor in intensive care medicine that I took away. It's little pieces from everybody. This one guy chanted at me always, diagnosis, prognosis, treatment, book. Diagnosis, prognosis, treatment, book. He just chanted that at me. And his point was,

if you don't come up with a diagnosis, you don't have a treatment. And a lot of doctors don't get this. They start trying treatments before they ever make a diagnosis. So treatments are studied in the context of a particular diagnosis and if you're not treating that diagnosis your treatment's bs right yeah you're just that's just a guess

but so so you make sure your diagnosis is as accurate as possible apply the treatment diagnosis prognosis you know offer a prognosis to everyone based on that diagnosis, prognosis, treatment wait, wait, diagnosis, prognosis so you can prognosticate first and then offer your treatment and then go back and study and do research and study so diagnosis, prognosis, treatment book and that's always been with me

and I had a cardiologist that was deeply impactful on me I had an infectious disease doctor I've come back around and took a dinner a couple times to show my appreciation for how it would impact me. There are people that the way they think,

they just don't get things wrong. I try to be one of those guys even though I'm not. These guys that... I'll give you a quick story. I remember I called for an infectious disease consult. I was looking at this kid in the emergency room. It looked like measles to me.

It was a 19-year-old kid with morbilliform rash and fevers and tongue was red, blah, blah, blah. The usual measles stuff. And this friend of mine, an infectious disease guy, took one look at the room and he goes, have you ever heard of septic scarlet fever? Of course, him knowing that I'd never even heard of that. And he goes, this is septic scarlet fever. And course, him knowing that I'd never even heard of that. And he goes, this is septic scarlet fever. And God damn it,

he was right. So this gives you something to live up to. Wow. Interesting. Okay. This is one of the final questions that I ask all my guests at the end. It's called the three truths.

Okay. Now you've got a lot of messages you put out that you've been on the radio for ever 30 something years. 1984. I was 84 as you said? 83. What month?

August I would say. Okay. March is when I was born. 83. As long as you've been alive. Sharing content in the media and the radio and TV and all your writing and everything for a long time. Imagine that it's the last day for you many, many years

from now. I'm dying? I'm on my deathbed? It's your last day. Last day. Okay. Last day on earth. Last day on earth. Yeah. You've created everything you want to create. Yeah.

Taken all the risks and they've all worked out one way or another. But for whatever reason, everything you've created is now erased. It's gone. No one has access to it for whatever reason. Okay. Hypothetically, obviously. Yeah. But someone by your bed gives you a piece of paper and a pen and says, will you write down the three things you know to be true about everything you've

experienced in your life? Three lessons, three simple truths that you could pass on that this would be the thing that people remember you by, these three truths. What would you say? It's not fair, is it?

Does everyone freak out? So, I'm going to distill it down oh i'm going to distill it down to what i've seen works with people who are in who are dying frankly um who who are you know in extreme circumstances and And these three things tend to, everything seems to, you know how things kind of go down into a single dot when you're really in the moment?

And these three things I've seen to be true. Have faith, whatever that means to you. Develop some concept of faith and that can be God, it can be just a faith in physical properties of the universe. I don't care what it is. You need faith.

Have hope. And again, that's kind of a big concept too. It may be based in reality. It may not be. Have hope. And nothing matters but the important relationships in your life. That's it. Those are powerful. Nothing matters but the important relationships in your life. That's it.

Those are powerful. That's what people usually, those things, if they can hang out of those things, when it really, the rubber hits the road, shit hits the fan, those three things tend to keep people moving forward. That's great. Those are great. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Dr. Drew, for your incredible contribution to humanity. Again, all the work you've done, all the, here's the risk you've taken.

Humility is very important too. So don't, don't. It's, well, I want to take a moment. I want to take a moment. It's hard for me to take that kind of thing in. So I appreciate you doing that, but I will try it. Cause it'd be good for me to do so. So I want to let you, uh, practice patience for a moment and not speaking.

Okay. So I want to let you practice patience for a moment and not speaking. And let me for a moment acknowledge you for, you know, sparking so much inspiration in me as someone who watched you on TV many, many years ago. Before I got into any of this, you really inspired me as a human being to, even if it was crazy or whatever the context was, it really showed me how to be a better human being and how to heal myself. And I think the work that you do on a day in and day out basis for almost 35 plus years now, just on radio and TV alone is so profound in making impact globally, not just one-on-one, which is also extremely important, which you constantly do,

but trying to use all of your energy to make the maximum impact on the maximum number of people. For me, I want to acknowledge you for that. Yes. I thank you. I will say that it's somehow more real and meaningful for me to hear that I impacted you. What I do on a big scale feels – I hope it does. Yeah.

But that's harder for me to take in. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. Before I ask the final question, where can we connect with you? DrDrew.com? Yeah, go there. Where else do you like to hang out?

Social media? In Los Angeles, I'm doing a radio show every day at noon to 3, KBC, 790 AM, which we're having fun with. I'm probably going to go back on CNN soon. I'm going to be producing some interesting projects, I think, coming up that keep an eye out for. I can't really talk about them yet, but I think they're going to make a difference, too. Which social media do you hang out the most? Dr. Drew.com. Oh, oh.

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. I monitor Twitter the most, but I hate it the most. Okay. Because it's so abusive. You check it out every day, though. I check it out a couple times a day, but it's so abusive. You probably get so much backlash. God, it's so abusive.

So send him something positive about this interview. It's bad for my soul to have the negative stuff. At Dr. Drew on Twitter. At Dr. Drew. At DRW on Twitter. And I have a Facebook I don't watch too much. Instagram I watch a little bit. If you watch out there, when I do put stuff up, I mean it.

It's important to me. Otherwise, the website, dr.com, is mostly where I hang out. So on Twitter, let Dr. Drew know exactly the thing that you're inspired by the most. Or get on our contact list at Dr. Drew.com is mostly where I hang out so on Twitter let Dr. Drew know exactly the thing that you're inspired by the most get in our contact list at Dr. Drew.com

it's slash contact and we'll send you emails and you can send me emails my wife monitors all of that so it does get to me okay perfect cool

the final question is what's your definition of greatness the last question what's your definition of greatness my instinct is greatness is what

you say it is, and that is what you define as greatness and you want to be. It may not look that great to somebody else, but I think the individual has to determine what greatness is. And, yeah, I think I can say that. Greatness is an individual, and from my opinion, it's an individual measure, and it's something that you should establish for yourself. Dr. Drew, thank you so much, man.

Thank you. Appreciate it. This is great. Thank you for your kind words. Of course, of course. And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this powerful interview and episode with Dr. Drew.

And after the interview was done, I remember I wanted to ask him a few more questions about masculinity because of my new book. And I was like, oh man, I'm so bummed that I didn't get to ask you. And he said, yes, that's actually a topic that I want to talk about and dive in deeper. And he said, I'll have to come back on because that's a whole nother hour interview. So if you enjoyed this one, we're going to have Dr. Drew back on at some point in the future. So make sure to tweet me or tweet Dr. Drew and let him know what you're most inspired by from this interview and other questions you may have for him in the future.

Again, share this with your friends, lewishouse.com slash 419. Guys, if you've been here for a while and you have not subscribed yet on Stitcher or iTunes or SoundCloud, make sure to click the subscribe button right now. And also, if you have yet to leave a review, it would mean the world to me. The more reviews we get, the more people find out about it on iTunes. So go ahead over there right now and leave a review if you felt like this has added any value in your life

because that will only spread the message of greatness to more people. And it's my mission to impact the maximum number of people with the content that we're developing here at the School of Greatness. We're bringing on some incredible guests. I hope you would agree because you keep coming back to listen and you keep saying they're incredible. So just make sure to do your part and share this out with other friends of yours. Email them, post it on Facebook, Twitter, tag people on Instagram, let them know about the

podcast episodes you like the most. and leaving a review will be extremely helpful for the show as well. And I'll leave you with this. We get one life. Make sure you're taking care of the different areas of your life to help you live with the most joy, passion and love in your heart.

You owe it to yourself to take care of your mind, your body and your soul. Make sure to take care of yourselves today. I love you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.