The School of Greatness - 439 Master Social Skills and Confidence with Jordan Harbinger

Episode Date: January 30, 2017

"The mind follows the body and the body follows the mind." - Jordan Harbinger If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/439

This is episode number 439 with Jordan Harbinger. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. You know, a lot of times I get people reaching out to me and saying that they're struggling

with their life or their business. They tell me different things that are holding them back, challenges to make more money, challenges in their relationships, challenges with their family, and a lot of it comes down to self-confidence and social skills. And if we don't have self-confidence in our dreams, in our voice, in our way of being, in our health, in our thought process. If we are not confident with ourselves, then usually a lot of things will suffer. We'll second guess ourselves when something goes wrong.

We'll not be as intentional about our day. We'll just kind of go about things in a lackluster way as opposed to owning the day and owning your life. And so today we're covering about how to build self-confidence with Jordan Harbinger. And for those who don't know who Jordan is, he is the co-founder of The Art of Charm, which is a podcast, a company, and an experience where they help people have more confidence. And he hosts boot camps and training sessions and works with companies and individuals all over the world about how to increase self-confidence, be more persuasive, confident,

and charismatic in your life. His podcast also gets over two and a half million downloads per month and growing. He's been one of the OG podcasters, over 10 years now, been doing it. It's pretty impressive. And what we cover today is how to develop social capital and why it's so important. Also, what most people don't understand about building quality relationships in business, the crazy stories of Jordan getting kidnapped, not once, but twice in different countries. Also, how he got a podcast going 10 years ago and why he's never stopped. Also, a simple tip you can practice daily

to build your physical and mental confidence. That and so much more on today's interview. lewishouse.com slash 439 is the link if you want to share it out with your friends. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Jordan Harbinger. Welcome, everyone, back to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the legendary podcaster, Jordan Harbinger, in the house. Good to see you, man.

Good to see you, man. Now, you've been podcasting for 10 years. 10 years this month. 10 years this month. It's four years this month for me. Congratulations. I'm like a child compared to you. But they're both eternities in the world of digital anything.

Yes. Facebook, I think, is 12 years old almost. Wow. So think about doing something for one third of the time Facebook has been around. Amazing. That's a long time. Yeah. 10 years, man.

And you were doing it before it was cool and before- Is it cool now, though? Before a million people are doing it. Yeah. 10 years, man. And you were doing it before it was cool and before- Is it cool now, though? Before a million people are doing it. Yeah, that's for sure. What is the number? The 400,000 podcasts out there? I was going to ask you the same thing. I think that it's around-

I remember in 2013, 2014, it was a quarter million maybe. Yes. So now it's got to be 400 plus thousand, right? Yeah. It has to be. It's crazy, man. Yeah. 90% of which are abandoned, like Twitter accounts.

Right. Yeah. They don't get updated. They pod fade and there's nothing left pod fade man yeah people get so excited about it and they launch a few and then they just stop after it gets hard they're like oh yeah okay and and you know how much work this is i mean just people are happy to to buy the lockers and put the plant on the table and get a light set up and then when they go to edit it and upload it and they're like, wait, where's my millions of downloads? How do I, where's the advertising revenue? And then when that doesn't materialize overnight, they vanish. And we had this advantage that when I started doing the show, it was a hobby and I did it

in my friend's basement. And for years and years and years, it was a hobby up until maybe four to five years ago, around the time when you got in the, even right before you got in the game, I started going, I like this. I should take it more seriously. That was both a disadvantage in that I could have been peddled to the metal for five years, could have really concentrated on making it a business. But here's the upside to treating a business as a hobby, any business in the beginning, was since we started the show as a hobby, all I did was go, oh, I want to interview that person. That'd be fun. Oh, I'd like to talk about that. That would be fun. Oh, I didn't get this out today. That's all right.

I'll just release it tomorrow. What's the big deal? And then if I looked at my download numbers once a month, that was a lot. And there were no libs in download statistics. There was no SoundCloud plays. It was just up on a server somewhere. I had to log in and kind of do math. And I thought, eh. So I never looked at that stuff, right? And the downside, of course, is what's measured gets managed. Since I wasn't measuring that stuff, really, I wasn't managing it. But the upside was those numbers probably weren't that good. So if I'd looked at that and gone, when am I going to get internet famous? It just never would have happened. And I probably would have gone, this sucks. I'm going to Instagram or whatever. And I think a lot

of people do that with their business or even in their relationships too. They're like, oh, the next, you know, this is going to materialize into this big thing. And then when it doesn't, they get disappointed, they get discouraged and they quit and they move on to something else. So I think in looking at it, like sports, for example, that, that you do so much of, especially compared to me, you know, that you do so much of, especially compared to me, you know that you don't go to the gym for a week and go, where's my six-pack, man? This is a gym. You know that you've got to work constantly and build up to something and get to the Olympics at some point later on down the line.

It's not going to happen your first season. I know. Right? It's crazy. Definitely not. Ten years. How many episodes have you done? Do you know?

That's a good question. not. 10 years. How many episodes have you done? Do you know? That's a good question. 600 plus all of the Minisoad Mondays, which I think are around 60 plus all the bonus episodes, which are probably like 100 plus all the FanMail Fridays, which are probably like nearing 100. So close to 1,000.

Close to 1,000 episodes, but probably not quite that many. 1,000 episodes, 10 years, 2.5 million downloads per month and growing. Hopefully growing. What would make this, I know, right? I mean, you don't know sometimes. In the December, it was like,

all right, we're going out of business. I'm going to Bermuda. Exactly. Now, what would make this, I usually ask this question before I start, but I want to ask it during. No, I want to ask it during because you've done all these episodes

and all these interviews, 10 years of this. What would make this the most powerful episode you've ever put out? This one? Yes. Man, it's hard to say because if I knew that, I would try to do that before. So you've got me in this kind of like minority report loop going. I like it already in that we're friends. We've been friends before we started doing this stuff, which is cool.

So we have like a natural pour. And I like the fact that I don't have a microphone over here that I have to lean into. I'm trying to convert you into it. Yeah, I'm getting there. Perfect. The plant honestly makes a huge difference. The globe, everything.

It's the globe and the plant. Hold on. There we go. Now, there's a lot we could cover. We did an interview in June 2014, episode 73 together. Oh, wow. Uh, but there's a lot of things I kind of want to share a little bit about you.

So people have some context. I actually don't want to go into the stories of a lot of these things because I think we did some on the last one. Sure. And people could hear it in other interviews that you've done on your show. Cut me off if I started going down that, that road. But the cool thing is, well,

not cool, but the interesting thing about you is you've been, I know you're going with that. You've been kidnapped twice in your life. That's right. Can you just tell the durations of time you were kidnapped for? Sure. They were short durations, thankfully.

So the first time was a matter of under an hour where I was in a fake taxi. I didn't obviously know it was a fake taxi, which ended in being driven way out in the middle of nowhere outside Mexico City, ended in a physical altercation. I was doing, well, we didn't call it MMA back then, but I was doing like jujitsu and we called it kihon, which is like this Japanese boxing type thing. And this guy was like 50. I was 20 at the time. I'm 36 now to put it into context. And so it ended in a physical altercation and he was driving and I was behind him.

So, well, I'm here. So, you know how that shook out. And the second time I was a teacher in the former Yugoslavia, which in this place called Serbia. And I love it there. But I got targeted by their state security guys because guys and gals, I'm sure they're equal opportunity. But I got targeted by them because you're supposed to register with the police wherever you live. But the last time I had done that, they assumed that since I was in the police station at 1 a.m., I wasn't just coming back from a late flight. I must have done something wrong.

So they locked me up overnight so someone could come back and administrate in the morning. And they locked me up overnight with a bunch of these Roma women that were just chain smoking. There were these prostitutes from like a camp and they were chain smoking unfiltered cigarettes the whole night and talking super loud. Worst night in memory. Because not only can I not sleep, I'm inhaling this stuff and I can't even understand. I'm not even learning anything. I can't take part in the conversation.

Nothing. All I'm doing is inhaling secondhand smoke. So I went, I'm not registering with the cops again and that caught up to me so they grabbed me and they took me to a safe house ironic term for a place where they beat you up and like lock you in a basement and uh i ended up in a way talking my way out of that one but my friend who was there who was serbian and uh a mix of nationalities but Serbian. His parents had some organized crime connections from like the 90s, which were not working in his favor at all when we were there. And he randomly, and this was truly random,

he was living in the same building as this arms dealer that they had just busted in Belgrade. And so when they caught us, they were like, wait, you live at this address? Okay, hold on. We got to make sure that you're not this guy. And then you're with this American guy who we think is a spy because he's not registered with the police. And I was a teacher, but the person paying my paycheck or the company paying my paycheck was a US organization that was called ACTRXLs, which is kind of Fulbright-ish, but is sponsored by the Department of Defense.

So I looked hella suspicious. Wow. And they were just not having it. And they were also a little bit under the influence of stuff because we were at this festival. So they decided to take their time. And that was one of those times where I thought, okay, this is going to be awful. I was in a basement with all these rusted pipes coming out of the wall. And there's little wires and car batteries that I'm like, please don't connect that to some part of me anytime today. And I just remember being like

so utterly helpless and then talking and talking and talking, trying to calm the guy down who's interrogating me. And then finally being like, look, I need water really bad. And I think that may be why I drink so much of this during shows like this, right? Because now I'm like, whenever I need something to drink. So they went to go get us water and they left and that was when I was like, I was pretending to be completely out of it, couldn't really move, slurring, but it was fake.

And then when they went to go get me water, I heard the Jeep door close, they left and then I grabbed my friend and just got the hell out of there. Really? Yeah. Yeah, because they just thought, oh, this guy, he's just, he's not going anywhere. Wow. But I was on the move. So you escaped? Yeah, I escaped. Holy cow. How old were you?

25 at that point. That's crazy, man. That's 2005. Yeah, I made front page news in this newspaper over there called Politica. Yeah. I knew that because my friends in Australia who were Serbians who check in with their local Serbian news every morning were like calling me the next few days

and they go, are you okay? And I said, yeah, why? Wait, how do you know what's going on? You're on the freaking newspaper. You're on the front page of the news. Wow. And so I took that opportunity to get the heck out of there

because I thought, oh, this is, they're going to forget about me. Like I'm just going to pack up and leave. And I was at the embassy at that point, but my phone was buzzing and I just thought like,'s the problem i thought this was all squared away because their interior minister had sent a letter to the u.s embassy like look that we got this this is fine he's not a spy he just needs to register with the police so they kind of apologized about it in a weird roundabout way because i went straight to the embassy and was like i just got kidnapped by

cops you know this is crazy and so they they sorted it out, and I thought, maybe I can finish my contract, which is naive as hell. No, you had to get out of there. I had to get out of there. And so I just left. And a lot of shady stuff happened that year, man. I left a couple of friends there, and they were friends with these activist kids that were my age, maybe younger, 23, 24. And they worked for these resistance groups that were against, formerly against Slobodan Milosevic. And at this point they were also against, I don't know,

Kosovo independence or something like that, or for Kosovo independence. I can't remember one of those two things. And my friend came home four days later and I go, why are you home now? And he goes, my friend was found dead in elevator of a heroin overdose. And I go, Ismail? And he goes, yeah. And I go, he doesn't even drink. Of course he wasn't doing heroin. Like he got shot up by somebody and left in his building. That's crazy. So I was like, okay, I'm not going back there.

Serbia is not a dangerous place, though. I want to reiterate that. I'm sure you have Serbian fans. They're going, what? This is not my country. And now I'm sure it's even better. But back then, in that kind of circle that we were in, I think we just kind of edged on the outside of the town or something.

Yeah. Something like the outside of the circle where we were just on radar of bad people. And I just thought, all right, I don't need to deal with this. Wow, man. Crazy. Okay. So that's happened in your life. You also... So that, there's that. There's that. You also, how many languages do you speak now? Five, but some of them not so good anymore. No bueno anymore. No bueno anymore.

Which languages? So English and bad English, like Bruce Willis, right? English, German, I can still speak really well. I was an exchange student there in the 90s. That's cool. And I ended up in the former eastern part of Germany, which, as you know, was part of a Soviet satellite state eastern block. So when I got there, that was no longer the case. But all the kids my age grew up learning Russian and German. There was very little English,

except maybe in the high school level, because things had started to change. So everyone speaking English was like, hi, nice meet you. And I was like, oh, God. I learned German really fast because otherwise it's not like Germany now where they're all like- They speak better than us. They speak better than us. Yeah. So English, German, Spanish, I learned when I worked at the embassy in Panama, which is brief. And then I moved to Mexico, got kidnapped, checked that off the list. And then after that, I moved, I was studying Russian for a bit. I moved to Ukraine to learn to work on that stuff. But then I ended up getting a job in Serbia. So I switched from Ukraine to Serbia, which when you learn languages that are really close together, you get a lot of interference.

So my Russian was starting to become OK. But then I moved to Serbia and it kind of all went out the window. So when I got to Serbia, I couldn't speak Serbian. I could only do Russian. And then after a while in Serbia, I could only speak Serbian. I could only do Russian. And then after a while in Serbia, I could only speak Serbian. I couldn't do Russian. So I did that. And then a few years after that, more recently, the last five years or so, four and a half

years and change, actually five and a half years and change, I started learning Mandarin Chinese because I thought people kept going, oh, you're really good at languages. What do you speak? Like Chinese or something? And I thought, OK, if I think I'm really good at languages, let's put that to the test. Wow. And I started learning Arabic and then thought, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time in these places. And I started researching what I liked more. And I thought, Chinese is a good bet economically. I'm not trying to join the CIA again or something like that. So I'm not going to do that. So I made sure to focus on Chinese.

And I started enjoying it. And I thought, I'm learning symbolic language, which is really good for your brain. I'm not a scientist or a doctor, of course, but there's something to be said for activating this part of your brain that memorizes tons of symbols, learns things in symbols, moves things around in your brain, and puts them together in symbols. And that's what Chinese is. So that's been really helpful in all these weird abstract ways that I probably can't articulate. Right.

Wow. So are you fluent in Chinese now? No, I'm not. I wish. I know 2,200 characters and I need to probably learn another 1,500 more to be able to read a newspaper. But you can speak it or no? I can speak it.

Yeah. Because I take lessons on Skype and on Skype there's the teacher and me and that's it and it's like 12 bucks an hour and it's really cool yeah and I've got a book and they've got the same book and they've got it scanned as a PDF or something like that well I can just converse with them and learn and go through the grammar it's slow going though I mean yeah you run a business I run a business imagine picking up Chinese an hour in the more easy three days a week I mean it's pretty it's kind of like going to the gym once a month.

Maybe 10 years or get healthy or something. Yeah, it's going to the gym, maybe not once a month, but it's like going to the gym once a week. It's a really slow climb in the hill. And then the rest of the week, I'm not watching Chinese TV. I'm not reading Chinese books. I just forget about it. You're not having conversations.

Nah, not really. Have you ever thought about just going over there for six to 12 months and working and just being immersing and then having it so you don't have to go to the gym for 10 years to learn it? Absolutely, I have. Yeah. And I think now before I have kids is probably the best time to go over there and do that. So I was going to do that this year, but I'm getting married this year, which is awesome.

But I don't think I'm going to have time to go to live overseas. Does your fiancee, Jen, she speak any other languages? She does. She speaks Mandarin. So in theory- Why don't you practice with her? Here's the thing.

What? She can't read and she can't write because she grew up here and Chinese is like two languages. You have to learn the symbolic reading and writing and you can learn speaking and she's from Taiwan. Well, she's American,

but she's Taiwanese. So she has a weird accent. She uses different words for a lot of things. Her parents I can understand really well. So them and I will speak in Chinese a bunch. But her Chinese is so strange that I have so much trouble with it. It's kind of massively discouraging. It like hurts you more than helps you.

It kind of does. It kind of drags me off the way. But I will say I was sitting on a bus a few weeks ago. I can't even remember where we were traveling and I thought somebody smells so bad on this bus and I didn't want to say anything because I was in Australia and I thought like I'm not going to just say who smells right but I want to tell Jen I was like do you smell that is what's going on is that me so I told I asked her in Chinese and we just kept we started speaking a little bit in Chinese and I and then

every time I do that though I go alright can you just speak with a Chinese accent you're driving me crazy you know it's kind of like trying to learn English and so you go to South Africa or something or even some crazy version of English

that doesn't make any sense like Singapore where they're like or Jamaica it's like Jamaican English. Sounds cool if you know English fluently, but if you're trying to learn, you're just like, come on. You could even go to parts of Alabama and I couldn't understand half my teammates playing arena football down there. A lot of great people down there, but some of the language is extremely hard to hear.

I had to ask them over and over what they're saying. Well, I got pulled over once in my life by a police officer and I was in Alabama driving and it was a speed trap and I had no idea what this guy was saying. And of course, he thought because he's watching TV, he knows what I'm saying, he can understand me. And he just thought,

what's your problem, boy? You don't understand me? Or are you pretending you don't understand me? Like, you're going to get a ticket either way kind of thing. And I thought, I was just like, can you, can you say that again? Slower? Yeah. And he's just like, have you been drinking? And I'm like, no, I don't need to be drunk to not have a clue what you're saying. I'm in the middle of a highway in rural Alabama. If there, if there's anything other than rural Alabama and this guy was probably from around there and I just had no clue what he was talking about. I did. It took two years to get mailed

back to Michigan. Two years. Everything is slower in Alabama was talking about. I did. It took two years to get mailed back to Michigan. Two years. Everything is slower in Alabama, I'll tell you that. It took 20 minutes to get fast food when I was there. Maybe he kept it for a while and then went, ah, here, I'll send this onward. So you could get yourself an escape from a kidnapper, but you can't get out of a speeding ticket. Not that time. Interesting.

No, not that time. Well, you've gone through all these incredible experiences. You've interviewed hundreds of people over the last decade you've learned all these different languages you've got a school called the art of charm which is your business and brand your podcast name what made you so fascinated to learning about social and human dynamics and everything about how human beings think work work, perceive, act, talk to get them through things, out of things, enrolling people in themselves, their vision, whatever it is. Why are you so obsessed with it? Yeah, I am obsessed with it. That's a great choice of

words actually. It goes back to when I was a kid and I just recently thought about this because I know you wanted to talk about something that I hadn't talked about everywhere and I thought okay that's a challenge for guys like you and I because we're going what have I not told that I actually still remember in my life and it's there's not a lot but when I was little and by little I mean like 13 14 I was painfully shy and I used to skip school because I didn't want to be around other kids because I thought like oh maybe people are looking at me. And like, I always tried to make myself small. I always felt, you know, when you do something dumb and you turn red and you feel hot, you put your head down and you go, uh, that's

how I felt every single day in school all day long, which is good. It's not good for you. It's not good for you. And it's a symbol of like some kind of weird anxiety stuff that's beyond just regular teenager stuff. And I don't have that anymore. So I can't really explore it. I got rid of it. Thank goodness. But what I was doing instead was I was going to school on the bus and then I would just bounce home. And my parents had gotten a computer. It was like the one thing I really wanted. And I got a modem and I was connecting to the internet. And this is 1993, 1994. And I was connecting to these billboard or bulletin board services, which are like mini internets. Basically, we're all like people are connecting.

Nerds are on there trading software and typing to each other. And I would do that all day. And I learned how to wiretap phones. I learned how to copy cell phone data. So you could take your phone, and this is before digital phones, they were analog. So you can take the phone and you could copy something on the, on what's called the EEPROM.

You could copy the little semiconductor data onto another one using your computer or using something else, even another phone. And you could basically like, like tuning a radio, listen to other people's conversations because cell phones are basically two way radios. That's crazy.

So I started doing a lot of that. You could do that. You could do that. Started doing a lot of that. You did this. I do that all the time. I hope the statute of limitations is up on this, by the way. So you could listen to other conversations by-

All the time. No way. Yeah. You can't do it anymore with these phones, huh? No, I mean, I'm sure that you can, but it's probably a whole nother level that I'm not spending the time on these days. And you'll probably go to jail for real this time. I think that's real jail time.

Yeah. Especially because now they're supposed to be probably encrypted and all that stuff. And there's laws about that. Back then, it was just kind of like, don't interfere with other signals. And there were wiretapping statutes, but it was kind of like, are you wiretapping? Because it's wireless, but you're not really supposed to be on this channel. And you definitely had to steal information from a dumpster of a cell phone store to get the numbers and the info.

Wow. And you just figured people who bought a cell phone near your house, there were only a handful of these stores in the whole state of Michigan. So if you bought a cell phone in that store near my house, you maybe lived there or in that area and I could pick up a call or two here and there. And so I did that. And I also learned how to wiretap those green boxes that you see outside that belong to the phone company that had the pairs in them. And I got one of those orange handsets from a lineman's

truck. I was not a good kid. I pinched one of those from a truck and I would listen to the phone calls on that thing. Pinched means stealing. Yes. Yes. It's just a euphemism for borrowing something for a really long time with no intention of giving it back ever. Exactly. And I took that stuff and I remember feeling really bad and going to give it back to the lineman. And he goes, what are you using this for? And I said, I'm opening up the green boxes and looking at how it works. And he goes, you keep that.

And I just thought, what? Maybe he just thought you were like a curious kid. He did. He showed me a bunch of stuff in the box. And he was just like, you didn't hear this from me. And I think he was just kind of like, if you're bored and you're getting in trouble, but you're getting in trouble with this, I don't want to take this away from you. And then you go like inhale, grow or whatever. You know?

Like, what are my options? Right, right. What am I doing? Steal something else. Yeah, steal something else. Get caught. Drugs. Yeah, exactly.

Smoke cigarettes or worse. Okay, so you're learning how to hack and all these things. Yeah, and so I'm starting to listen to conversations. And when you're 13, 14 years old, adults are actually just two-dimensional objects that stop you from doing things that you like and or they buy you stuff, right? And then you have your parents.

They feed you, yes. Yeah, you have your parents who are slightly more three-dimensional, but they got their own stuff going on. And you're 13, you're not paying they buy you stuff, right? And then you have your parents. Yeah, you have your parents who are slightly more three-dimensional, but they got their own stuff going on. And you're 13, you're not paying attention to that stuff. And so, and my parents were great. They weren't dysfunctional. I came from a great household.

I just had, you know, I was 13 and I was more precocious than probably was necessary. So I started listening to these conversations and one of them was my neighbor and he was getting a divorce. Not my next door neighbor. Sorry, Dave, but a different guy. And he was getting a divorce and I remember listening to these conversations and one of them was my neighbor and he's getting a divorce, not my next door neighbor. Sorry, Dave, but a different guy. And he was getting a divorce.

And I remember listening to him talk to his soon to be ex-wife and he was just a monster. And I thought, oh, this guy is terrible. He deserves it. And then he would talk to his brother and it would reinforce the idea. But he felt it felt like he was a little bit trying to be macho about it. And I thought, oh, that's weird. Why is he doing that? He was a little bit trying to be macho about it.

And I thought, oh, that's weird. Why is he doing that? Then he would talk to his sister and he would be like, why doesn't she understand me and all this stuff? And I thought, wait, what is this element of your personality that I never saw coming? Where's the macho thing with your brother? And where's this jerk that you are with your soon-to-be ex-wife? And then he would talk to his mother and he's like, my wife's divorcing me. She doesn't love me.

He's crying. And I thought, wait a minute. Other people have real three-dimensional feelings and brains and personalities just like me. And to a 13-year-old kid who is an only child and kind of self-isolating, that was a massive realization for me. So I started to study people really hardcore online and in real life. hardcore online and in real life. And I turned my whole life into like a science experiment where I started asking myself, how come this person's doing this thing this way? What are they getting out of this? And why does this person decide to do this or act this way or be this way? And that started to fascinate me. And I started to study this subject really in depth a lot in my free time. Yeah, you're like the modern life Dale Carnegie. Maybe, yeah. I mean, I think he did a lot of that stuff too, right?

I'm trying to, I read that book so long ago. How to Win Friends and Influence People, yeah. Yeah, great book. I'm sure he was a really interesting dude. I think, wasn't he a janitor or something at first? Who knows? And he was just probably bored and then started observing people.

Yeah, right? Yeah. Amazing. Okay, so through all these experiences, what is it you, understanding people have three dimensions to them and all these different emotions and feelings and act different ways to different people. What's the biggest findings? The biggest findings are going to be the things

that I get from science, not something that I just came up with on my own. And it's going to be namely that nonverbal communication always trumps verbal communication. What you say with your body is much more, I would say, credible than what you would say. With your words. The things you're trying to say with your words. Because we all know how to lie. We all know how to tell lies. We probably learned that when we were like five years old or something like that. I mean, little kids lie all the time.

And it's kind of funny because it's so bad, right? You ever see your friends with kids and it's like, did you take another Popsicle? And they're like, no. And it's dripping and it's in bad, right? You ever see your friends with kids and it's like, did you take another Popsicle? And they're like, no. And it's dripping and it's in their pocket melting. You know, so like we all know how to do that. But what we can't do very well just as humans,

it's very hard and only sociopaths are really, really good at this. Fortunately for the rest of the population is that you can't have your body kind of back up every lie that you tell. Even people who do it really, really, really well also have flaws in doing it. And most of them are going to be in Hollywood later on next month getting an Academy Award for doing it.

So it's tough. And so I learned that keen observation of vocal tonality, eye contact, or lack thereof, the nonverbal communication that people have, the, and now after this, we're all going to be like, eye contact, right? Yes. The nonverbal communication that you have, the way that everything works together in concert is such a telling picture. It tells a very accurate tale of what's going on in our heads. In fact, I was reading this today, Stephen Kotler's new book that's coming out next month, Stealing Fire.

Yeah. Stephen Kotler's new book that's coming out next month, Stealing Fire, yeah. They were talking about this AI shrink. And this artificial intelligence shrink is a robot. It's just probably an iPad connected to a computer or something like that. It can ask you basic questions. It can generate really basic rapport.

Where are you from? Chicago. Oh, I've never been there. I'm from Los Angeles. It's really basic. But it will measure vocal tonality, where your eyes are going, how fast your body's moving, where you're facing, how fast you're facing, how fast you're talking. And it's taking 60 measurements per second on your nonverbal communication and it's, and verbal communication,

I suppose for that matter, but it's not thinking, Hmm, is that a lie? It's just taking an objective measurement of each of these 60 data points every second and going, this person is in this emotional state, this person is in that emotional state, which I think is fascinating and very, very cool for therapy reasons. that Ex Machina or whatever, remember that movie? Yeah, that's great. It's right around the corner where robots can manipulate our emotions much better than any sociopath ever could because they're not going to make mistakes because they're going to be programmed by experts that have gone through thousands of iterations of the same scenario. It's not going to have agendas

that serve its own biology or emotions because it doesn't have any. A lot of times what gives up a sociopath is they can't help themselves. They find themselves addicted to some sort of psychological stimulation like sex, drugs, money, whatever, ego. A robot doesn't have that. It's only thinking about the end result, which is just like, that could get messy. I don't know how we get on this topic. Right. So that's one of my takeaways, right? Is that the body doesn't lie or it has a harder timeline. And the other thing is that we filter, and there's a lot of these takeaways, I suppose, but one that's been on my mind recently is that

we filter everything through our own emotional filters. So if I send you an email and you just tripped over some dog poo on the sidewalk and you got a call from a friend of yours and they were unhappy with you for some reason. And, you know, all your team called in sick the same day because they went to a concert. Not that you would ever do that. And you're just annoyed. And then I send you a text like, hey, man, what's going on? You might just, you're not going to go, I'm great. What's going on with you?

You're going to respond in an emotional filter. And that's an obvious consequence of a, of a certain exchange. However, if I send you a text that says, Hey, what's the deal with your new book? You might be like, why you don't like it. Right. Instead of if you're in a positive emotional state, you might go, yeah, I'm super excited about it. It's awesome. The cover's done. Let me send you a picture. It's going to be read. Can you check out the first chapter? Check out the last page. I got this infographic in there. Right. You're excited about it because you're in a positive state. If you're not, though, you filter through an emotional filter of negativity and that guides your response. And I realize that we do this in every single area of our life. So no matter

how you react or no matter what kind of stimuli come into your world any given day, it's always going to be filtered through the goggles, the virtual goggles that you are wearing that are your emotions. And that's interesting because a lot of times we can control our emotions and that it's hard to do that, but that will color the way that we experience our entire life. And this has head nods to probably every ancient tradition and religion and Buddhist thing out there. However, it's cool to see now that you can – not only can you see this in real time in yourself, but you can start to take control of it. And science is finally starting to back this stuff up. Science is finally starting to say, oh, all right, if you wake up on the proverbial wrong side of the bed

and you experience all these different things, you can kind of tune and dial in the way that you want to experience pretty much everything in your whole life by trying to access and change your own emotions, which you can control. And it goes back to these old maxims of focus on the things you can control. Don't worry about what you can't. And I don't know who said that. There's probably a hundred people who said that from the Dalai Lama to the guy who works at the front desk of your building. But focusing on what you can control

is not just, oh, I can't do anything about what that person says, but I can control my response. It's that, but it's also very granular in that we can focus on our actual individual emotional responses when it comes to things like that and realize in the moment, oh, I'm not mad at my wife or my girlfriend or my dog. I'm not mad at the delivery guy for showing up late. I'm not mad at my neighbor, actually.

I'm mad about this thing. Well, wait, am I mad about this thing that happened yesterday? No, I'm mad about what that thing says about me in my own mind. Okay, wait, I need to change that perception. Wait, where does that perception come from? It comes from this, it comes from this, it comes from this. And then you find yourself tracing, you go Freud on this ish, and you find out like, oh, this thing that happened when I was in fifth grade that got compounded over middle school has been impacting the way that I deal with money, women, family, business, friendships for my whole life. And only then at that point can you let it go. And this isn't like meditate on this grasshopper, right?

This is like do some writing and soul searching and look at your actual responses. If you throw a book at the wall tomorrow because your sales letter didn't convert, it's probably not because the sales letter didn't convert. There's something else going on. Exactly. I think that's interesting because a lot of us go through these. We have these habits of triggers.

We're triggered by different things in our lives that happen. I think that happened to us or around us, and then we're automatically triggered to respond in a certain way, whether it be we close off and are scared or depressed or we get aggressive or we lash out or we start fuming or whatever it may be.

And like you said, it's not that thing that happened in that moment that triggers us. It's something else that we built up over time and our perception of what's happening as a protection, as a defense mechanism yeah right and unfortunately our defense mechanism mechanisms often just make things much much worse it's a bigger story i mean i got freaking triggered today because i i've got a one-star review on the show on itunes

and that drives me the worst right you're like do you know how long i've been putting energy this come on 10 years of hard work and especially when you get one and it's just like stupid. And you're like, that's it? No criticism? There's no measured response? And there's no name on it? No. It's like they bash their hand on the keyboard five times.

Right. And I know that that's a 13-year-old kid who's like, I'm just going to click dislike on this because it's at the top of iTunes right now in front of the one I was actually looking for. Or this wasn't the search result I wanted, one star. Or it's the guy whose foot I stepped on yesterday. But I also know that my response to that is unreasonable because it doesn't actually say anything about my work. It has to do with their perception of maybe not even their perception of my work. And even then, though, but I put so much pride into what I do that when I see it, I love when people email me and be like, here's why I don't like your show.

I get that. I don't like when it's an anonymous coward on iTunes or somebody who's just firing something off on 4chan. That drives me crazy. Tell me your name and your website so I can reply to you. Yeah. And we can have a conversation. Dialogue.

See how I can make it better and get real feedback. Yeah. Dialogue. And I know logically that works, right? However, our emotional responses are the opposite of logic. Our logical brain is completely disengaged. All it is, we're in throw the book against the wall mode. That's entirely, it's the lizard brain takes over. It's completely unreasonable and it always does us a disservice. And so that mindfulness key concept is important, but it's also important to not just go, hmm, I'm feeling the emotion of distress right now. Let me calm down.

Right. You got to trace it back. Yeah, exactly. You got to trace it back or you're always going to be effed up, and the triggers are always going to be there. You can't just buff it out. You've got to replace the little panel, the wooden panel that's got the dent in it, right? Yeah. So let's talk about perception then because I think there's a lot of people listening who would like to have – who would like to create more in their life.

They would like to have a bigger business. They would like to have people supporting them, promoting them, whatever it may be, get the job they want, things like that. They want more in their life, health, business, relationships, everything. And perception and first impressions, what we were talking about earlier, plays a big role in how you create what you want in your life. You know, if I had, you know, a lot of everything is perception, right? It's the way you build your brand around you, whether it be your business, your personal brand of you just showing up in the world, it's a brand. And if you put out a negative energy or negative brand, you're going to have a negative perception about yourself, the way you speak, the way you look, the way you talk,

the way you look at people in the eyes, the way you touch all these things. It's either going to connect to a positive perception, which people are going to have that for a long time, unless it's shifted, or it's going to be a negative thing or an off thing where they're not inspired either way. So how do we, and I know you have a tool for this or some type of process or drill, you said, but how do we really set ourselves up to win so that we create a positive perception in the minds

of everyone we come in contact with as often as possible? Obviously, we're going to have off days and stuff like that, but what can we do? Sure. So one of the sort of common misconceptions is that our first impressions that we make on other people are the first thing that we say or the first interaction that we have. And that sounds reasonable when you're thinking about making a good first impression with people in general. However, what we know from science and what we science, and I'll back up and prove this real quick,

is that our first impression is not made when we open our mouth. It's made when we become a blip on the other person's radar. And so what I mean by that is our perception of other people, and this is evolutionary psychology 101 here, is that we do snap judgments of people based on what we see. And we have to do that. It's a safety thing.

Women are 10,000 times better at this than men. That's not a scientific measurement. Because they have a safety question that is just the elephant in the room every single time. Is the person safe? Is the person safe? Whereas you and I, I only think about that when it's like face tattoos and serious like dark alley type stuff. Some huge dude.

Yeah. Even then, if I'm in a movie theater and there's a guy who's 6'6 and has face tattoos, I'm like, hey, man, pass the popcorn. I don't care. Right. But if I'm outside at night in Hollywood or something like that, then it's a different story. But for those perceptions that we make, they're made completely non-verbally. And you can test that just by going out for a walk right now, or maybe after the show. Go out for a walk and see when you make a judgment of the next people that you see.

And it's going to be before you talk to them, unless they sneak up on you, in which case you've got other issues. But the reason this is important is because since we're making those judgments the second we see people and it's happening at a subconscious level in our brain, that means that our first impressions are always made non-verbally. And so this is really, really important because people who spend a lot of time thinking, what do I say? How do I start this conversation?

What do I do to approach this person and get them to like me? That all becomes far less relevant. It's not as much important about what you say or right even how you're saying it it's more about who you're being yeah and the way you're saying it in beforehand exactly yeah it becomes far less relevant to the the actual connection that you have with that person and before you get into the drill I'll back that up by giving you know as a positive example of this there's so many times like when i was single years ago even like not even the last time i was single but years ago like in my early 20s when i

was just like you know trying to like say hi to every girl sure yeah i always yeah i always felt like i never knew what to say i always felt like this dumb kid it's like i don't have anything clever to say i'm not like this smart kid but i was like you I don't have anything clever to say. I'm not like this smart kid. But I was like, you know what? Let me just practice using the gifts that I do have, which is I can smile. I can smile and come up to someone with like positive energy. Yeah.

Be open hearted and just like smile and look them in the eyes and not like stare into their soul or whatever, but just like creepy style kind of make them like a little bit like uncomfortable. Like, Oh, that's interesting that the person has the confidence to look at me for like two seconds and smile. And then just kind of like keep walking or whatever or say hello and when I

would do that I would always feel like if I came with a big smile like genuine almost 100% of the time the girl would talk to me or whoever I wanted to talk to talk back and it'd be like this friendly conversation just like that one little cue of big heart, big smile. And there's a lot of switches being flipped in the subconscious mind when that happens, which is the safety switch. Well, okay. Dangerous people often don't smile, which isn't true by the way, but it is, that's why dangerous people do overemphasize the smile is because they're often overly charming because they are dangerous and they're predators. It's another, that's another thing for, I did a show with Gavin DeBecker, The Gift of Fear.

We talked a lot about that. Wow. But yeah, you're right. You're flipping a lot of the right switches, which is, look, this person is friendly. This person is maybe safer. This person isn't judging me right now or has judged me in a positive way, which is great. So there's approval there.

That's very welcoming for a lot of people. And then, of course, you having other friends in the same room is also very helpful. Any situation like that that comes about can add to a positive first impression. But I never said anything like unique or clever. It's just like, oh, we can have conversation by just being positive. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of guys, I think when they're dating, especially if they don't know how to start conversations, or even if you're going up to your favorite speaker at an event or something like that, often people are like, I don't know what to say. And it's like, well, it doesn't really matter because here's what's happening. If you're not saying anything, I'm getting a weird vibe from the creepy, quiet person who's

just staring at me trying to figure out what to say. Because your body does weird stuff when your mind is otherwise engaged. So it's better to just turn that off. Because if you're thinking, hmm, what do I say? What am I going to do? Then you just look like, you look strange and you look unapproachable and the gears are turning. And we don't think, and you guys can probably back this up, if a guy walks up to a female and he is nervous,

a lot of times if he looks like the type of guy who shouldn't be nervous, like if it's Louis and he walks up and he's like nervous and fidgety, you're not thinking, oh, how cute, he's nervous. You're thinking, okay, what is going on here? This is creepy. I don't get it. Why is this person creeping me out? And we mirror people naturally. Like, I will mirror your emotions. Women will mirror our emotions. They'll mirror each other's emotions. That's a human thing. So if I'm nervous and anxious, other people are going to start to

become that way in the interaction. And they're not going to go, oh, well, you know, he probably just has a little bit of anxiety because he's not used to being in a room full. No, that's not what's happening. What's happening is they're going, he's nervous. What's he going to do? Because I'm nervous now and I don't know why. And since I don't know why, I'm just going to leave because that's going to make me feel not nervous, which is where I want to be.

That's my comfort zone. You end up making other people feel strange, whether through eye contact that doesn't match the rest of your body, eye contact that seems like there's an intent behind what you're doing that's not the words that you're saying. So all of these things goes back to the body can't lie, that first takeaway. The body can lie. It's just very hard. But the body certainly will give away and betray your intentions. It just might be that the other person's perception of your intentions is incorrect. Does that make sense? Of course. Yeah. And so what we try to do

is create positive first impressions that we now know have to be nonverbal and they have to be positive. They have to be open and they have to make sense and they have to portray the intent that we have, which is hopefully positive, friendly, open, loving, whatever positive adjective we want to throw in here. Right. So what's the drill then? So the drill, I call this a doorway drill is this kind of an art of charm staple. And what this is, is, you know, when you're confident, you naturally are upright. Like you, you basically just did this upright, open body language, smile on your face, chin up, ideally chest back or chest forward, shoulders back. You don't have to be like, you up, ideally chest back or chest forward, shoulders

back. You don't have to be like, you know, Superman pose or anything. Those power posing things have kind of been there. Those studies are hard to replicate. I'll put it that way. But if we, if we remember what we look like in this position and we're doing this socially, and this is how we feel positive, open, loving, open hearted, I think is the word that you used.

If we do that every time we walk through a doorway we no longer have to do this manually because what a lot of people do is they go oh good right open tall positive body language put a smile on my face that's going to work next time I go into a place and start a conversation but the problems crop up when you're trying to do what we just talked about what you just talked about and you're trying to remember to do that at all times. Not going to happen. It's kind of like telling yourself, remember to notice things. It's an impossible task, right?

You can't do it. You can't be mindful of your verbal and nonverbal communication and stay present in a conversation. It's too many things for your brain to concentrate on with different parts at the same time. It's very difficult. I don't know anybody who's good at it and still looks natural doing it. So we have to relegate the positive, open, friendly, nonverbal communication to the level of habit. And the way that we do that is with the doorway drill, doing that upright, shoulders back, chest up, chin up, smile on your face every time you walk through a doorway, even in your own house.

When we have that, when you have that posture going, I don't know how I should count how many times I walk through a doorway. And I'll tell you to illustrate my earlier point, I've tried to count in a day how many times I walk through a doorway, but you can't because you just can't remember to count every time you walk through a doorway, just like you can't remember to straighten up, put your shoulders back every time you have a conversation. It's impossible. You're not going to do it. You need to make it a habit. If you do it every time you walk through a doorway, let's say you walk through a doorway 100 times on an average day in your office or house,

you will eventually have the habit of having upright, positive, nonverbal communication. And you've got to do it every day because I just got off a plane. I've been sitting like this for two hours. You've got to reset. And you have to constantly reset every time you sit up, stand up, whatever. This is great because if you do this and you relegate this and you create this habit over time, the next time you go downstairs to Starbucks, do you drink coffee? I feel like you're not a coffee guy, but I could be wrong. Normally, I don't, but I've been doing Bulletproof lately.

Dave came over and was like, here's a bag of coffee. That's what he did to me. He's like, here's a bunch of stuff that you're going to feel really guilty about not lately. Yeah. Dave came over and was like, here's a bag of coffee. That's what he did to me. Yeah, right. He's like, here's a bunch of stuff that you're going to feel really guilty about not using. Exactly.

So here it is. I do that, but sometimes I don't need it. I mean, yeah, I've never really been into coffee. Yeah. And I still don't feel like

it does anything to me. I agree. Like, yeah, I can drink coffee at midnight and fall asleep. Oh, shoot.

I'm sorry. I can drink it in the opposite. I can drink it in the morning and still feel like I have the same energy as if I don't drink it. So it's not like I ever feel like I'm exhausted. I need it. Yeah. But I kind of just like the taste and you know, the idea of it. I have, I have the worst of both worlds. Here's my coffee experience and I'll get back to my earlier point in a second. I drink coffee in the morning and I go, I don't think that worked. And then I know that if I have a second cup, I'm just going to feel jittery and irritable. But then I try to go to bed 12 hours

later and I'm like, crap, what's the problem? Oh, I had coffee this morning. Caffeine half-life is so long that you still have caffeine in your body. It's not worth it. But what I meant to say before my, and now you know that I have AD back. When you walk downstairs to Starbucks or when you go to that networking event or when you go to that next meeting, it's automatic. And then you can focus on your verbal communication, which is so much more difficult for us to stay present in the conversation. Think about, all right, what am I trying to do with this conversation? Where do I want this to go?

What am I going to say next? That's a whole different set of, I would say, skills slash problems of self-management and self-actualization and authoring that get us past that. However, to not then worry about your nonverbal communication is so powerful. And if you don't do it, not only are you not going to be present, but you're going to run into this type of situation. And let me give you an example here. You're going to walk into, let's say I'm going to meet you at a bar with a bunch of our mutual friends, right? And you guys are on the right and we're all single. Let's go back 10 years or whatever. And there's a bunch of cute girls on the left and we're in college or something like this, right? We'll do a dating context thing because I know a lot of people watching are of

that age group and in that mindset. If I walk in and I walk over to you guys and I'm just, you know, tired from the day. And I'm, I just, I didn't have my coffee, my bulletproof and I'm going, all right, let's get a drink. So I'm going to ordering a couple of drinks, even though we don't drink, but let's pretend we do. We're doing that and we're hanging out. And then I noticed, oh, there's some girls at a table over there. Let me have another one. Let me, let me pretend I'm watching the basketball game. You know what I'm talking about, right? You're watching at the bar,

like, Oh yeah, the yeah, bullets. Cool. And then eventually I walk over there after three Jack and Cokes and I'm like, Hey,

what are you guys drinking? And they're like, Nope. And it's not because of my height. It's not because of my skin tone. It's not because my hair doesn't have enough stuff in it or too much stuff in it. It's not because my opening line wasn't clever. It's because when I walked in

the door, they noticed that they're noticing the other people in the venue. They noticed me when I walked in or at some point thereafter. They saw me standing around watching the bullets, the spurs or whatever with my hands in my pockets. They saw us sitting over there drinking liquid courage, maybe not smiling because, you know, we're liquid courage maybe not smiling because you know

we're guys gotta be tough you know hang out take up way too much space they saw all that stuff and they went oh that guy's insecure so I don't we're done with that

next and then they might not have said it but they're subconsciously thinking it all subconscious the feeling yes 100% 100% subconscious

and they might even think oh my first impression was when he walked over here. But the brain isn't troubling their conscious mind with the real deal, which is we already wrote that guy off 20 minutes ago. You don't even have to worry about him, Angela. Just let him go. And you may not even have looked at the person for even a minute. It could have been like a quick second. But the brain automatically associates with a certain perception. Exactly.

Of the energy you're putting off. Exactly. And whenever I go to an event, you've been to a lot of events, I've been to a lot of events or bars or just places with lots of people in it. There's really only a couple people

that maybe stand out that you notice that you're like, oh, they've got something different about them. And it's always their energy, their posture, the way they smile, the way they look, their intention, what they're doing with their hands.

There is a level of comfort that they have that you're like, I want to speak to that person or that's the girl I really want to talk to or the guy who's like, I wish he came over and talked to me type of thing. Or this guy's just curious. I just want to know who this person is. I want to go say hello and introduce myself. There's only really a few people. And maybe there's more when they listen to your show.

There's tons of people now, but usually I only see a few people that I'm like really stand out and I'm like, there's something different. And when you go back to thinking like, what is that thing that was different? Like they're usually, you know, not sloppy dress. They don't have to be over flashy, but there's just a level of confidence, comfort in their own skin. So how do we, you know, and I think the quote you said last time is something about, and I remember specific things, but I think this was something about we default to the level of our training. Yes. We don't rise to the level of our expectations.

We default to the level of our training. And I can't remember who said that. Probably some Navy SEAL. I got it from a Navy SEAL who started the, one of the guys who founded the SEAL Team 6 dev group. I got it from that guy a long time ago. What is it again? We don't rise to our what? We don't rise, and his name is Dick Marcinko, if you want to look it up. But I think that the quote that I remember it is, we don't rise to the level of our expectations. We default to the level of our training. And I think it was maybe originated by him or at least appropriated very aptly by the guy who started this organization.

So we essentially need to train being comfortable in our own skin every single day in order for us to rise to the expectation of doing that when the moment comes, right? Right, because you're basically, you're setting the bar of where you train. And what he meant by that is when the bullets start flying, you're not going to become Superman. You're going to default to whatever your lizard brain knows you have to do.

So if our habits, our lizard brain says, all right, well, every time I go anywhere, I straighten up because I walk through a doorway and I smile. You don't even have to know why you're doing it. You don't even have to know that you are doing it. And then since we also know that the mind follows the body and the body follows the mind, and this comes from the Botox study, which I can talk about in a bit as well, we know that you'll eventually start to feel differently in terms of the way that you interact with other people. But the other side of the cycle, the virtuous cycle also takes part here, which is when you see those exact people that you just mentioned, you treat those people at a subconscious level a little bit differently than you would treat somebody who's like, hey, Lewis, I like your show.

You would treat that person well, but you wouldn't think, wow, that's the kind of guy I want to surround myself with because there's a certain type of communication that's happening here. because there's a certain type of communication that's happening here. So when those people that have that little extra air of confidence, they look a little put together, they're comfortable in their own skin, you treat them differently. And when those people go through their whole life being treated differently, you need a charger for that sucker. No, it's good. When they go through their whole life being treated differently by people

in a positive way, they start to fulfill that role because why wouldn't they? We almost always allow other people to train us how to act. We allow society to program us, whether it's program us to be confident with a cool athlete guy who's popular in high school or whether we're the kid who skips school because he turns hot and red when he thinks people are looking at him even though nobody gives a crap, right? We allow that outside influence to come and program us. No matter how tough, you think, I don't let anybody. No, you do. It's subconscious. You can't stop it. Don't try to stop

it. Shape it. And one of the ways to do that is the doorway drill. And the reason, by the way, I want to prove stuff because I like science and I like to not just have people take my word for it. When I say the body follows the mind and the mind follows the body, the Botox study was super interesting. We know that there was a study a long time ago and I can't remember what this, a long time ago, several years ago. I wish I'd looked this up beforehand. When they gave depressed people, well, first of all, Botox, for those of you who don't know, is a toxin that you inject into your face and it's supposed to stop wrinkles. So it's actually botulism toxin, AKA the plague. They shoot it into your face. It's very popular in your neighborhood, actually. And what it does

is it causes your face to take these unnatural kind of paralyzed forms because the toxin paralyzes the muscles in a tense way in your face. And that's what makes you look younger slash makes you look like a clown mask from Beverly Hills. But when you inject that in your skin, it stops the muscles from doing what they're going to do. So they did a study where they injected this into the frown lines on people with depression and their symptoms were either partially or largely alleviated. Wow. And they went, wait, what's happening here?

They thought maybe the botulism toxin was having some effect on the brain or was da-da-da-da. They figured out by stimulating the nerves manually that it's very, very hard to get sad, stay sad, be sad, default mode sad. Where you're smiling. You can't move your face, right? They figured that out and they figured, oh my gosh, what other things will cause us

to change emotional state? And you end up with the research from people like Amy Cuddy, which I said, there's some, let's put a little asterisk by that because there may be some difficulty reproducing that study. But we see power posing. We see some of the Tony Robbins stuff. We see a lot of

emotional state shifting as a result of changing your body. And we all know we can do certain movements, right? And we also know that things like exercise release endorphins, which are also released during certain types of physical motion. So it's not just Jordan said the body follows the mind and the mind follows the body, do the doorway drill. It's look, the science is there. It's maybe not all packed in, jammed tight, but I'm not going to wait for there to be an exhaustive 100-year study to try something and see if it works for me.

Right. Right? If it doesn't work for you, my bad, but try one of the other bajillion drills that we give away on the show. But I think this will work for you because I haven't met anybody that it doesn't help. You know, I went through many years of being insecure.

I was not the popular high school athlete kid, you know. Really? I totally just pegged you as like the guy who always, you know, rocked it. Because I was the youngest. You know, my freshman year, I was like on varsity sports. So I was like the one they picked on. Like the young, like rookie. I was always like the young one because I was playing up.

And so it wasn't until I was a senior where I was like, oh, now I'm the oldest and I'm not like the little brother that everyone's picking on and making fun of constantly. Even if I was like one of the best athletes in the school, it was still a lot of insecurity. And so I didn't have comfort talking to other people. I didn't feel comfortable in small groups. I couldn't speak in front of an audience without trembling. I could never go up to a girl and say hello.

Yeah. So I started doing these tests myself because I was like, okay, I want to become Batman. So I need to become the bat. And I was like, that means I need to go talk to girls every single day, even when I'm scared of it. And it became a habit. Nightmare. But it was terrifying, right? When I was like 16 in the summer, I made a commitment to myself every single day when I see a girl that gives me butterflies, I'm going to go up and at least have an interaction. Now, the first month, it was like, I didn't know what I was saying.

I was just fumbling over, trying to not look like an idiot. But I was like, okay, it wasn't that big a deal if they ran away from me. Whatever, there's another girl down the street. Let me go try again. And I got comfortable being uncomfortable and experiencing rejection over and over and started to feel like, okay, what works where I get a positive response, where someone smiles, and then where they actually reply to me, and then where they give me a hug

or they give me their number. I would just be like, okay, I can just be more myself, be more natural, and it works. And I started practicing certain things because I grew up really lonely and insecure and depressed through various times. My brother was in jail for a number of years. Yeah, I remember that. Parents were divorced. A lot of different things happened. So I just felt very confused. Now, I'm a white male. I grew up in America, so I'm very blessed in that sense. But I also had a

lot of inner battles emotionally, which made me feel like my life was chaos inside, right? And I remember practicing certain things where I would just stand in front of the mirror, maybe this is like Tony Robbins-esque or something, but I would stand in front of the mirror and just smile at myself. And when I would see a smile back, it was like it brought more joy to me. So I said, let me practice this with other people

where I smile in front of them and see a smile back. Like if I could just get them to smile, it would like bring so much joy to my life. When I would like walk down the street in New York City, when I lived there, I would smile at people and just see if I could get them to smile. New York. Exactly. And they're like, creep, get away from me.

But like you always see like a smirk at the end. Yeah. Because it's a freaking physiological reaction. And you're just like a genuine smile, not like a creepy smile not like a creepy smile like a genuine smile just like hey you know and someone would smile back it's like okay i created a positive response in that person which brings me more fulfillment and joy which makes me want to smile more exactly stand up taller just naturally i'm not even thinking about it right but i feel better and so i would just smile throughout the whole day so i one of my drills is every time I see someone, it's a smile.

Great. Even if I'm in a negative mood. But if I don't smile, I'm going to stay in a negative mood. Right. You're going to stay. You got to break that state, right? You got to break it at some point. Now, obviously, there's time and place for just like being in a rut and having your moment

or whatever. You got to allow it. Yeah. You can't just be fake all the time. Like, everything's great. My dog just died. You know what I mean? Pull a Nicole Kidman.

Exactly. Face is always the great. My dog just died. You know what I mean? Pull the Nicole Kidman. Exactly. Face is always the same no matter what. But I mean, I think if you want to get out of this estate that's not working for you, like smile at the next person you see and just keep smiling at the next person and see if you can get a mirror. Yeah. I love it. I love that.

And I feel like what you just mentioned with being that guy in high school, also illustrates a little bit the earlier point that we always let other people program, or inform, I should say, not program, how we feel about ourselves. And that can be really destructive, as it was for both you and for me in our time in school. However, now, when we know how to change the raw ingredients that go into that impression that we're making on them, we can cause the world to treat us differently, which then will, of course, positively inform the way that we feel about ourselves. So you can't reject outside influence. It's a tough guy bro-ism like, I don't give a crap what anybody – you care so much what other people think that you're telling us about how much you don't care. That's a, and that's not good. And so rather than trying to fight that outside influence, you should actually use it to your advantage. And that's, that cascades into all of those reasons why you and I like to hang out with ballers and awesome people that are

really cool and positive. And that's why I will send you a text when I feel like crap about something and you'll be like, actually, this was good and I liked that thing. And I'm like, I was glad I texted Louis today. I felt like crap earlier, you know? Right, right. And I can count on you for that. Even though like you and I are still dudes

in the same space, so we have this like, oh yeah, well, you did that. Well, I'm doing this. Like there's a light competition, but I don't feel like it's gone to the level of where it's unhealthy or weird. And I feel like I can still open up and go, God, you know, sometimes I just wonder what the hell I'm doing here. And it's, and it's fun. And it's nice to do that. And then get reassurance. Like we had a call two weeks ago or a week ago. And I remember hanging up and going, I'm so glad I'm not the only one having these problems in the business because we are on – we are in objective terms to successful people by pretty much any measuring stick that you can use that I can hear of, right?

You've got a great place here. You've got a great team. You have good friends. You're in a relationship. This setup is cool. We're both on the upward swing. And yet you can still walk outside tomorrow after getting up on the wrong side of the bed and go, this is a bunch of crap, you know, and it's raining

outside and it's raining inside and you just can't do much about it other than try to change the internal stuff that's going on, which is rolling that boulder uphill. I think it was Prometheus who's doing that. Or you can try to change the way that the world reacts to you by tweaking a few levers in the way that you present yourself. And that is what we try to do, seek to do every day at The Art of Charm. Yeah, that's cool. I want to ask a few more questions. Tell me about social capital and why it's so important. Right after my – I hope this is... Is this a sponsor of the...

No, it's not, but... Oh, well, in that case. They're getting some free promotion. In that case. Social capital is a term that we use for... And it's not just... I don't think we even made this up. It just sounds awesome.

And it's something that I found in the scientific literature after we started creating this product. But basically what it is is a fancy term that encompasses things like referral currency, strong relationships, friendships, and your network, which networking is a dirty word. So we don't want to talk about that. Like networking reminds me of like, here's my business card. Call me when you need a financial manager.

And now you're just like, you know, that's what people think of networking. It's a dirty word. With social capital, we're taking into account the people that you surround yourself with. You only go as high as your five closest friends is a favorite quote that you and I probably have beaten people with over and over. Is that Jim Rohn? Jim Rohn. Yeah, exactly.

And it's super true. And so I thought, okay, I want to surround myself with great people so that I can rise to that level. And you're doing the same thing here. There's pictures that prove it on your wall in the studio here. And those people inspire us. They get us to do the right thing. Our shows are largely about this, right? Surrounding ourselves with these people virtually wherever possible. And in order to do that, you can't just call up Tony Robbins or Chris Voss, Rob Durdeck, Prince. You can't do that.

Most people can't do that. We've worked hard to get access to some of these people and get their wisdom available to our fans. And so what we've tried to do with the social capital course that we run and the concept of it at AOC is to show people, look, to our fans. And so what we've tried to do with the social capital course that we run and what the concept of it at AOC is to show people, look, social capital is how you get promoted inside your organization. It's how you create a new social network when you move to a new town. It's how

you create newer and stronger relationships or repair relationships with your family. Because a lot of us, I would say the majority of us, when we grow up, we're not thinking, I better manage this relationship that I have with my parents. We figure that stuff out after we leave the nest. And then, I don't know about you, but I left home and then I was probably like, yeah, cool, I'm free now for a few years. And now I'm 36, I'm going, oh, I should probably talk to my parents and manage this. Like, this is the finite

nature of these relationships is starting to become apparent. And so we work on these skill sets that get us access to people inside our company that will help us, mentor us, move us up the ladder. We get access to higher quality friends if the people that we are surrounded by now are satisfied with mediocrity, which, by the way, is the majority of us. The majority of people anywhere have people in their circle that are satisfied with mediocrity. And it's your job, like a bonsai tree, to trim and prune those people while also trying to bring them up, right?

Because you don't just want to reject everybody. That's not serving you in the right way. You want to help them as well. That's part of it. Empower them. It's your job when you get to the top to send that elevator back down. I think that's a showbiz quote, actually. And so we want to teach those skill sets, and we want to help people not only in their family and in their job and in their social circle, but we also want to help people apply these things in every aspect of their life. Because as you probably have also noticed, the highest leverage thing that anyone can do is create relationships because

that's your Archimedes lever. That's where you're going to find other people helping you do the work. I can't just promote my show to everybody with one-on-one Twitter messages or something like that. It's impossible. But if I have an army of people that are referring Art of Charm out to everybody because they like the content that's on the show, they're interested in what we do, that's how you get something that's incredible to grow. You can't do it alone. And that's no big secret. But what I found has been kind of hidden and secretive by accident is the individual tiny little, little tiny steps that are necessary to build those networks and to nurture them. And that's, that's what social capital is for us. And that goes back

to the doorway drill and the first impressions and the follow-ups and the offering, delivering value to people to make sure that you create relationships with them that are valuable. It's a whole set of skills that most of us ignore until we find ourselves knocking on the door, trying to get up and people go, who are you? I've been here for 10 years. Well, this guy who's been here for five years has been working on all these different projects. He's the one who got promoted or, and I learned this, the, the hard way slash the easy enough way on time. And I worked on wall street and Wall Street and I got hired by this guy named Dave. Dave was never in the office.

He was a guy from Brooklyn. He had a tan, which is strange. But I figured he knows something other people didn't know. And he was never in the office, like I said. So he's, how are we billing in six minute increments? How are you making money for us, Dave? What's the deal?

When I finally asked him this, he told me, look, I bring in the deals for the firm. I bring in the business. I bring in the relationships that generate revenue for the firm. And I thought, wait a second, I've been trying to outwork people my whole life. I've managed to do that all the way through college and law school. I've tried to rely on my smarts my whole life. I did that all the way through college and through law school. Now I'm on wall street. Everyone's smart. Everyone's hardworking. What's my lever? What's my Archimedes lever? What's my competitive advantage? Then I didn't have one and that freaked me out. And I

thought, I'm going to get fired. They're going to figure out I don't belong here. Imposter syndrome, classic. Then I saw that Dave had a lead on what looked like a secret third path, right? Nobody's paying attention to this path, the relationships and the networking nobody's focused on it nobody's learning the skills involved and so i decided to dedicate and focus more on that to double down on that because as much as i've been studying humans relationships persuasion that obsession you mentioned earlier i figured i'm a lawyer now you know i'm good i don't need to worry about that it's it turned out to be even more true at the top of the corporate ladder or anywhere on the corporate ladder than it was even throughout my regular life, dating with friends and anything like that. It was even more true then. And so I started to

focus on that. And I realized that the people, when the recession hit, Dave walked into another firm as a partner. Everybody else that was working at this firm got laid off. A lot of the partners retired early, fancy speak for basically being unemployable anywhere else. And they didn't want to be a mid-level associate after being a partner. I mean, it was just not in the cards. And so these guys were out of luck. And I thought, wait a minute, these guys didn't not know what Dave was doing. They were benefiting from the deals that Dave was bringing in. And then it really hit me that if you're not working on your networking, your relationships and creating those relationships, you're just being willfully ignorant of the secret game that's being played around you.

And Dave did that to his advantage and all those other partners did it to their disadvantage. And the same thing goes for everyone listening right now and watching this, which is if you are not focusing on your relationships, you're not focusing on that social capital, you're not focusing on those connections between people, you're being willfully ignorant of the secret game being played around you. And eventually, of course, as with any game that you ignore, you will eventually lose because you are in that game whether you want to be or not. It's just that some people have their foot on the gas and some people have their heads in the sand. Which one are you? Boom. That was good. It comes down to everything you're saying right now comes down to two quotes for me that resonate really well. One is people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Oh yeah. And the other one is, I think Maya Angelou said, people won't remember what you said, but they'll remember the way you made them feel.

Yes. Are those both Maya Angelou or just the one? I think the first one's Roosevelt. Oh, yeah. Maybe it's Eleanor Roosevelt. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.

Man, those all blur together. But they're both essentially similar in terms of, again, they're not going to remember what you said to them when you opened the conversation, that starter line, that whatever topic. They're going to remember the way you made them feel. And people don't care how much you know, how smart you are. They don't care. Until they know how much you care. So I think that's what it comes down to. If you can understand the science of that game, if you want to call it.

I don't really call it a game. I call it like the world of understanding human beings and what makes people tick and what makes people feel safe and feel lit up and feel inspired and feel driven and empowered, all these other things. If we can understand that aspect of life, you will be extremely rewarded, in my opinion, if you know what to do with it. I could not agree more. I mean, this is what we've dedicated our life to doing at AOC. It's, of course, related to everything that you're doing here at School of Greatness as well. And so it's cool to be on the same mission in many ways with you doing this because there's not a whole lot of people focusing on this, even though I think, and I agree with you. It's the single most important thing you can focus on right now, especially if you're younger. And at work, just using it in one context, in your work context, if you're 24 or 28 or whatever, your first job out of college, your first real professional gig, you are probably just as equally qualified as every single other person on your rung of the ladder.

The only way to set yourself apart is by having great social capital and networking skills. The soft skills will set you apart. The hard skills are all commoditized at that level. And then as you progress through the ladder, it's all about who you know. And people put stank on that. You should use that to your advantage. It's all about who you know. And then you get to the top.

And then you go, wait a second. you know, and then you get to the top and then you go, wait a second. Everything that was true at the beginning of my career about soft skills and social capital is a hundred X more true now, because how come that guy's been working here for 10 years? How come he's a partner and I've been here for 15 and I'm not, I'm of counsel, which is a position that you get below partner or as a nice little pigeonhole in a law firm. And you can end up going, oh my God, I've been heads down at work. And it's easy to feel like you got robbed, but really they focused on something that you didn't. And you can try to say you didn't know,

and you can try to say that you focused on the right things, but really you probably ignored the secret game being played around you. That's it. That's it. Final few questions for you. And one is called the three truths. Okay. And so if this is your last day on earth many years from now, and you only got to share three things, that would be your final message to the world. The three lessons, the three truths from all the interviews you've done, the experiences, the things you put out there.

There would be no memory of those things anymore. And you would have a piece of paper with three lessons or truths that you would share with the world. What would be your three truths? Oh, man. This is hard without going into straight-up cliche mode. I would imagine a lot of people go, love and peace and happiness.

Oh, God. I don't know. Let me think right now before I just answer firing off at the hip. I think it's really easy for me especially. I can only speak from my own personal experience. So I'll just dive in there. These probably aren't going to be the three most important things in the world. Your three truths.

My three truths. Yes. The people and the time that you spend with those people is the best part of your life. And it's very easy for guys like you and I and hard charging guys and gals, entrepreneurs and stuff like that to go, well, I don't want to go out with my friends this weekend. I got too much stuff to do. I don't want to go to your parents' house for dinner. I got too much stuff to do. I can't watch this movie or I'm going to check my email while we do this. That type of thing, I've spent so many years doing it and it actually became hard for me to enjoy time when I wasn't working on something and I spend it with people that I love or, you know, friends, family, whatever, I always realized that that was a really, a really, really good use of time. And then I

really needed it. And I found an important truth about myself, which is that spending time with people that have nothing to do with my business or that have, maybe they have something to do with my business, but we're spending quality time together outside of that, that recharges me more than I ever thought possible. And I think a lot of people think, oh, I'm an introvert. I don't really need that. I need to, I think people will surprise themselves if they actually set aside time to enjoy the company of other people.

And it's hard to do when you're running your own ship. It's really hard, but it's just as important as any business meeting that you'll have. Okay. That's number one. Oh man. The second thing, the second thing is that health has to be your number one priority. And I mean, emotional and physical health. Um, I won't go into the whole self-care emotional stuff as much because maybe that'll be truth number three, but truth number two is look, I've played that game where I can't work out cause I'm too busy. I've played that game where I've got to eat something unhealthy because I'm too busy or

I don't have access to something. You can always figure out a way to eat healthy and work out even if you're living in airports. And you will do that if you treat health as your number one priority. And people often pay lip service to their health being their number one priority, but they don't actually put the systems in place to handle it. You'll put an email system in place. You'll put a Pinterest strategy in place, but you won't put a strategy in place to make sure that you have something healthy to eat for breakfast because you got an early flight. You won't put something in place to make sure that you can work out in the hotel or the Airbnb where you're staying. Oh, there's no gym around here. Guess I'm off the hook. No, come on, man. We're adults

now. Put the strategies into place. Treat your health as a number one priority because just as with other business meetings, your health has to, that time at the gym has to be sacred. Don't care what you do. You have to take care of yourself. I spent a long time. Oh, I've got to be home and check my email. I got to be, I'm buried in this. I got to get this work out the door. I got to do this show. You have to, I've canceled shows to go to the gym. Don't tell anybody. Right. But I, cause you have to, you will drive yourself nuts and your body will go, all right, you don't care about me. You're going to see the consequences. And then you can't give your gifts to the world.

It's impossible because you're falling the frick apart. Yeah. Okay, that's number two. Number three, it's got to be still self-care. It's got to be still self-care because I feel like we neglect a lot of this stuff. And this is going to be emotional self-care this time. Not just spending time with others, not just treating your health as your number one priority, but looking at things that you're doing and checking in with yourself regularly.

Am I still happy with what I'm doing? It's very easy. You could look one day and go, kind of sick of interviewing all these people. Some of them show up late and it's irritating. These orange lockers are driving me crazy. I keep banging my toes into them, but we don't do, we don't do that, right? Because we think, no, I built this. I have to keep building it. And what this is, is just a big picture, 30,000 foot overview sunk cost fallacy in action. And what I mean by that is a lot of times we can look at the family we built on autopilot, the business we built largely on autopilot, the friends and, and relationships that we have largely on autopilot, the friends and relationships that we have largely unconscious autopilot that we've made these choices. And instead of going,

well, wait a minute, this person always complains and drives me nuts every time I talk to them. This food isn't good for me and I eat it and I eat lots of it, but I just, I don't know. And I've been doing that my whole life. Oh, I always show up late just because I don't know. I mean, who cares? Those types of things that we don't question, that autopilot that we use to run our own lives and run the way that we interact with other people and that we treat other people, a lot of that is done unconsciously. And the second we start to go, hmm, maybe this can be done differently in a way that serves me better, that's a daily thing that we have to keep asking ourselves. We have to ask ourselves every time we do something,

well, let's be realistic. We have to ask ourselves every day maybe with one thing. Do I still enjoy this? Is this still delivering value or am I doing it just because I like it? Am I- Or if I'm supposed to.

Right. Do I like golf or do I do it just because networking, corporate, pink polo? I don't know. Do I like the type of exercise that I'm getting or am I just doing it because I've got to go to the gym? Do I like the sports games that I go to? Do I like the sports that I play? Do I like the people that I surround myself with? It does sort of encompass the last two things that I said, but this truth is about mindfulness and making the choice every day to continue with what we're doing. And so when I get up and when I do a show and when I do an interview, I make the choice to go, look, this is something that I want to do.

This is a person I want to talk to. This is the way that I want my show and my business to be. And this is the impression I want to make. And if you constantly manage that at a conscious level, you're going to find that you're guiding, you're driving, you're guiding the horse, not the driver leading the rider. And I think that's very important. And I feel like years of

my life have gone by where I went to college because that's what you're supposed to do. And I went to a law school because that's what will get me a better job. And I woke up one day on Wall Street and said, what the hell am I doing here? And that was the day that everything changed and that we started taking off with AOC. And this is where we are now. Wow. Amazing, man. Amazing. Well, thanks for sharing those three truths. It's powerful. And before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Jordan, for showing up, for changing your life, to make an impact on other people's lives and do something you actually want to do. So I think a lot of people do get stuck and they say, well, I've got the golden handcuffs and now I'm stuck here because I got the kid and

responsibility. So this is my life. I'm stuck. And you set a new example and you're an inspiration to so many people by taking action in a different route and by doing something that you do love and supporting people over the last decade with your work. Yeah, 10 years. I want to acknowledge you for your incredible gifts, man. And for constantly taking on your life every year to learn something new and grow. I think a lot of people will stop after a certain amount of time. If they've been successful, you're taking on a new language. You move to a new city to try something new. You're taking on new things all the time to try and explore.

So again, thanks for being a great example. Dude, I love it. I would be lying if I said, oh, I do it all for everyone. That's complete and utter rubbish. I do it largely for myself. Sure, sure. And the fact that it happens to be something that I am able to give to other people, that's a great rewarding joy. But I don't think anybody should lie to themselves and say, oh, you know, it's all about giving. It's really not. It's about, you can only give as much, and there's probably a cool quote or concept in here.

You can only give as much as you're able to do yourself, right? You can't give love and knowledge and expertise and an example to other people when your own ship is just sinking like the Titanic. So, but thank you for that acknowledgement. I appreciate it, brother.

Of course. Uh, make sure you guys go check out the art of charm podcast, art of charm.com. You're on social media at art of charm. Yeah. Everywhere at the art of charm on Twitter. And I don't do Snapchat.

I know you probably love Snapchat. I like Instagram more. Yeah. You're all over Instagram and we're at the art of charm on Instagram on Instagram as well. The Art of Charm online on social media, artofcharm.com, iTunes, Art of Charm. Check them out. And the final questions, what's your definition of greatness? I should have seen this one coming. My definition of greatness, man, I don't want to give a cliche answer, so give me just a second here. Sure. Okay, this is probably a cliche by accident, but I just a second here. Sure. I really think, okay, this is probably

a cliche by accident, but I mean it. The greatness to me is really not accepting any excuses from yourself. And I don't mean beating yourself up because we're all eventually going to do something where we go, I shouldn't have eaten that burrito, right? I mean, I just did that literally today. But you can't accept excuses from yourself in terms of, well, you know, I'm just too busy to go to the gym. I mean, how easy is it to say something like that? Or people often go, why are you learning Chinese? There's no real benefit. I mean, I guess, man, maybe you'll teach your kids. And it's cool that you can talk to Jenny's family. But like, man, it's like 10 hours a week, six hours a week you're spending on this.

And it's so easy to go, well, yeah, I just don't have time. I should focus on this. What am I going to do, though? Check more email. If you don't accept excuses from yourself, you'll find and you call yourself out on this stuff. Oh, why are you drinking? Do you enjoy it? Well, no, but, you know, I'm just I need to relax.

You can't relax in any other way by doing other than doing something that's bad for your health. All right. Well, that's true. When you put it that way, you have to relax. You can't relax in any other way by doing, other than doing something that's bad for your health. All right, well, that's true when you put it that way. You have to have that conversation with yourself. Oh, well, you know, I can't be like Louis and Jordan because those guys have this type of privilege. They were born this, they have that. They live in these places. They had this opportunity.

Louis is tall. I can't do this, right? I mean, whatever. You have to have that excuse conversation with yourself and you have to not believe your own brand of bovine excrement, because if you start to believe your own excuses, other people will humor you and you'll tell other people your excuses and they'll go, oh yeah, totally. You're so busy. And then they'll turn around and not accept excuses from themselves.

And in 10 years, they'll look down at you and go, oh, you poor bastard. You just led yourself, you just lied yourself all the way into an early grave and a mediocre lifestyle, and you're so unhappy because you believed in the short-term gratification instead of calling yourself out on stuff. And I think greatness will come from people

who every day, day in and day out, with exceptions and a room for error and forgiveness of yourself, call themselves out on every single excuse that they can possibly find in their life, whether big or small, and instead take the high road. Instead, walk outside in the rain,

uphill both ways, or whatever your grandpa said the way to school was. If you can do that, you will be great. Jordan Harbinger. Thanks, brother. Thank you, man. Appreciate you coming on.

It's been awesome. Yeah, man. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with your friends. Again, the link is lewishowes.com slash 439. Or if you're listening on SoundCloud, Stitcher, iTunes, any place you're listening to your podcast, click on the share button and tweet it out or post it on your Facebook page. If you know that your audience would enjoy learning about how to build self-confidence and how to master those social skills, share it out and be the hero of your network for sharing

great free content. And if you missed last episode, we just hit four year mark for the school of greatness where we announced it last week. And I'm super pumped and proud of what our team has created, what we're building and what is to come. There is so much incredible greatness coming your way. So if this is your first time here, thanks for joining us in the four year mark. If this is your first time here, thanks for joining us in the four-year mark. If this is your fourth year here and you've been on every episode, thank you so much for your support.

Again, make sure to subscribe. Leave a review over on iTunes so it'll help spread the message of the podcast even more. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Bye.