The School of Greatness - 47 Life After Prison: Journey to Becoming the World's Best Jazz Violinist with Christian Howes

Episode Date: January 7, 2014

Back with part two, a continuation from last week's School of Greatness with Christian Howes. Last week was all about his experience with prison, how he got there, what he did while there and his trial and tribulations. This time around, we discuss the journey from the prison gates to the top of the Jazz world.

This is episode number 47, the part 2 with Christian Howes. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Hey, hey, hey, greats. Thanks again for tuning back and hearing the second part of this interview with my brother, my hero and the legend, Christian Howes.

hero and the legend Christian Howes. My brother is, again, such an amazing individual and what he's been able to create since coming out of prison. I remember the moment he got out of prison and he called me and all my family was gone to go pick him up. I had a basketball practice and he called me. And I remember just being so, so much joy in my heart hearing his voice when he was driving the car as a free man. And what that felt like for me as a 12 year old younger brother to know that my brother was finally coming home to spend time with us. And again, one of the most memorable, joyful moments of my life to date for sure, hands down was knowing that I was going

to get my big brother back. So this is all about the lessons that he learned from prison, what it was like getting out of prison and entering the world as a free man again, the challenges, the struggles, what he's faced since then, but most importantly, the amazing life that he's created for himself, his family. And yeah, it's just a powerful experience what he's done. And I'm very excited to share part two with you right now. With that, guys, here we go with part two of Christian House. I don't want to not be grateful for just having freedom. You know, like it's, you know, because life can be so bad. And even being in prison, like also I met guys that just I can't even begin to fathom how hard their lives were, you know, and what kind of they went through.

And I, I always tried to remember that. And that's another reason that I've never focused on, you know, how bad I, you know, it was for me to go to prison or whatever. Because all these cats in jail, the majority of them had it far worse than I did their entire lives. And prison was just a revolving door for a lot of them. And they didn't have families like we have. And they didn't have opportunities like we have and resources like we have. like we have. So I try to always be cognizant and aware of that, that like, to be grateful, you know, for what I have and to keep life in perspective in terms of what is really hard and, you know, how good I have it. That was a big lesson. There's a lot of other lessons though that I learned, I mean, about, you know, how good I have it. That was a big lesson. There's a lot of other lessons, though, that I learned, I mean, about, you know, identity, about purpose, about manhood.

What's a lesson about purpose? I mean, in prison, I think, you know, like a lot of people, one of the cliche things people always say, like, oh, that's why you're so good at the violin because you were in prison for four years you know it because they think oh because if because if you know if you go to prison you're just going to practice all the time i mean obviously i mean if i was in prison i would practice i'd be just as good as you too if i'm right like you'd be amazed at how many people like yeah like like i've said to me like that like oh okay well that's why you're so good because well sure you know it's unlike you thinking of myself, man. You just don't get it. But the thing that people don't realize is like,

you could be on a desert island for 10 years and have a violin or a basketball or whatever it is. But that doesn't mean, just because you have that time on your hands, that does not mean that it's going to be easy for you to get, to find the discipline to do it every day. Sure. to be motivated and driven to work out, to read books, to practice my violin, to learn music, to make the most of that time to better myself. And that was my challenge every day was like, I want to better myself. I can't do it. I'm in prison. The only thing I can do is try to make the most of every day to better myself, to be a better human being. And the way I looked at it was like, I can do that through intellectually, through books, you know, I can do it artistically through my music.

And a lot of times I didn't have an instrument, but I still would try to find a way. And physically through working out and even interpersonally through writing letters, mostly through and by trying to develop relationships with people in prison and learning from that, even though these were guys from a completely different walks of life. So every day was a struggle and I had to, you know, sort of fight to like, am I going to make the most of this day or am I going to let this situation beat me down and succumb to the lowest common denominator, which is like play cards, watch TV, you know. Just numb out. Numb out. Numb out. However that could be. Just pass the time.

Yeah. And there's ways that you can do that. And there's ways we can all do that with every day that we have now. You can watch your favorite sitcom. You can hang out with your girlfriend. You can play video games or whatever. There's all kinds of ways, yeah, that we can just like escape. And in prison, you have ways to do that too, even if you're in solitary confinement, it is hard to do push-ups and sit-ups and calisthenics for an hour.

You could sit there in solitary confinement all day and not do those push-ups. Like a lot easier than you think. Like I know you're sitting there thinking, like most people, like probably you too are thinking, if I was all solitary confinement, I'd work out four hours a day. Probably, you know, Lewis Howes, I mean, world-class athlete. I know that you've got all kinds of routines that you could come up with. But it's so powerful, like, the urge to just lay on that, like, great all day long and not. Just be depressed. And just be depressed. So, every day, it's like a challenge to.

So, purpose, you know, for me was about – So when you got out, did you have this deeper sense of purpose? Yeah, the whole time I was in there, I was developing a sense of purpose. You know, before I got locked up, I didn't have a sense of purpose. I had all these, you know, scholarships. You had all this talent that you didn't maximize. I wasn't – yeah, I wasn't motivated. I didn't have goals and i was just

you know coasting i mean my only goals were like you know getting laid and getting high and trying to be cool or something you know right and uh it was jive you know and and then when i got in there i was like i i had a purpose my purpose was i want to be a better person i want to be a man i want to make my life have meaning i want to be a man. I want to make my life have meaning. I want to do something meaningful with my life. And that became something every day that I was thinking about. And I was winding up like a spring. When I got out of prison, I came out ready to do some shit.

Like I knew what I wanted to accomplish in no uncertain terms. what I wanted to accomplish in no uncertain terms. And actually, because I had been at such a low point in prison, I think that it gave me an advantage when I got out in the sense that I was not afraid to promote myself. And we've talked about this before. I mean, you told me the story when you were well i can't remember if you were 18 or 19 or something i remember you telling me that that uh you know you you were shy around girls and you were you were afraid to talk to girls and you're like so so you made a promise to yourself every day that you were going to talk to at least one or maybe

it was three summer yeah you were like i'm going to talk to at least one or two or three like girls that i've never met before every day i'm just going to force myself to go up and talk you know you you just like felt like you had nothing left to lose and you know you had this purpose and you're going to do it but most people they can't get over their their fear of that you know and and whether and i read a book called call reluctance the fear of self-promotion and it said most people and that was one of the first sales books, business books I read when I got out of prison. I love that book. Because what it said was that, and you and I, our dad was a life insurance salesman and he influenced us huge as a salesperson.

Just how you conceptualize what it is to sell. Most people think that selling is a shameful thing. They're ashamed to promote themselves because they think that they're over promoting themselves. Because we're raised to have good manners. We're raised not to be a stage hog. Not to be pushy, not to be selfish. good manners were raised not to be a stage hog, not to be pushy, not to be selfish. And this book made the point that in our own minds, we overestimate or we underestimate. Well, we just have a messed up perspective of what it is to make the ask.

Like you can make the ask without overly promoting yourself, right? And I talked about this with your friend, Jonathan Fields, you know, this idea of if you're asking for the opportunity to serve people, that's not being overly self-promotional. But a lot of people I knew when I first got out of prison, I was so driven and I knew what I wanted. And a lot of my friends, I think were, they didn't know what to make of it. They thought like,

man, you're, you're being too, you're too serious. You're being too business. Like, just like be cool, man.

And especially in the artistic world, it's like, you know, artists and musicians, they think, man, just, you know,

you should just do your music. And let it come to you or whatever. And it's going to come to you because you're going to be good or you're just going to be cool. And it's just going to happen. I was like, fuck that. I know what I want to do. I want to be a great jazz violinist. And I want to be the best I can be.

And I want to go out. I want to play music on stages with great musicians. And I want to be the best I can be. And I want to go out. I want to play music on stages with great musicians. And I want to get paid for it. And that's what I want. And so I'm going to ask for that opportunity every day and pursue it zealously. So I didn't have the same, as they say in the penitentiary, or maybe they say it outside of the penitentiary, there was no shame in my game. It's like I got out and I was like, man, I'd already been on the bottom. I couldn't be

more in a more shameful position than in the penitentiary. I'd let everybody down, you know? And so I was like, what do I have to lose? I mean, it's just, you know, and so I just like, it was like a spring when I got out, I knew exactly what I wanted. I've been thinking about it for four years. Every day, this is what I want. This is what I'm going to do when I get out. This is my purpose. I've been, I've been honing it and refining it and thinking about what I wanted to do. And, um, I think that was a big part of why I was able to shoot past various phases in my career. Because a lot of people, they get into one phase. Maybe it's a local.

As a musician, I started. I don't mean to say anything bad about being a local musician. Because I think local musicians can be very successful and very happy as well. So that's a complete respect for that. But I was in Columbus. And I was doing the local thing. And then I was, I was like, I want to do something else. I want to go to New York. And then I was in New York and I was like, I want to do more and I want to go to Europe. And then I was in Europe. And then I, I want to, I want to get a gig at Berkeley College of Music. And then I got that gig. And then I quit every gig I had. I was offered a full-time job with Columbus Symphony. I quit that job. I quit Berklee College of Music. I quit touring with major artists across Europe

and some of the biggest names. And a lot of these things that I pushed to achieve, as soon as I got it, not as soon as I got it, but after I did it for a while, I thought there's still other things I want to do. And so I quit those things. And I think a lot of people, they feel like they might have been like where I started when I had success in Columbus, just working around locally, playing in clubs, playing weddings. I could have just been like, oh, I'm cool with this. I'm just keep doing

this. But I kept having that drive, like I want to go farther. I want to do this or I want to do that. And because I was in prison and I had that perspective of being in prison, of how low I could be, in a lot of ways that informed that desire for me and that sense of purpose, clear sense of purpose, and rid of like all the distractions and the self talk of like, Oh, don't be inappropriate or don't, you know, don't offend people.

Don't be pushy. Don't over promote yourself. Yeah. And, and also there's this idea that we live by a script, you know, that we live by, that we see what's possible for ourselves within really specific confines and that we live by a script, you know, that we live by, that we see what's possible

for ourselves within really specific confines and that we so unconsciously, you know, we live by that script, whether we are aware of it or not. I think going in prison, it completely flipped my script. I mean, cause I was like, holy, this wasn't part of my script going to prison, you know? And then, so it was kind of like, well, all bets are off. I can do anything, you know, my life can go anywhere and I'm going to, I'm going to go all out. So, so from a purpose standpoint, you know, that was huge. There was also the question of identity, you know, and, you know, questioning my identity.

you know, and, you know, questioning my identity. I mean, who am I from a lot of standpoints of, you know, obviously not just studying in college, you know, for all the years that I was in there, four years, you know, taking all these, as many humanities classes I could and examining, you know, identity from the standpoint of class, race, gender, sexuality. But also examining identity on the ground, literally in the prison yard every day, you know, in the real world of prison, you know, confronting, wow, who the fuck am I? you know, confronting, wow, who the fuck am I? Like in this context, you know, and seeing it that way and, you know, hanging out with these brothers, you know, like in the church services, playing gospel music or like in the R&B band. And it really made me do a double take and think like, who the fuck am I?

And then like being a part of that scene or being a part of like the bluegrass band with like these old Appalachian white dudes at the second prison I was at, you know, and just coming into such close proximity on a regular basis and being a part of that community with these people that were so different from me. And, you know, if we're in this world, I mean, in the free world, you know, like, I mean, you live in LA and you go to New York a lot and, you know, I mean, sure, you can go down to Guatemala where you're building schools and you're, you know, and you can go down there for two weeks and you can see how they live and stuff. But for the majority of your life, you know, you're surrounded by other people that are in a certain class or have a certain education. But if you're in prison, you're hanging out with these totally different people. And that made me just confront, well, who am I in a lot of ways? And I went through a journey with that and a parallel journey as a musician. And I went through a journey with that and a parallel journey as a musician because I was intrigued about the music.

I was intrigued about black music, African-American music of all kinds, gospel music, R&B music, jazz, various eras of jazz music. And the culture and the music is so connected. And learning from these guys, these older guys, it made me question what I know about music and what I know about life and manhood and the world and myself. Because the way they conceptualized it was so different. And being educated through school is different than living in the ghetto for four years. You get a different education there. And it's a profound education. If you can open yourself to hear these stories from these men and get to know them and become brothers with them, just the shit that opens up is just so deep. And just this guy, Eddie Hampton, who played the trumpet, taught himself to play the trumpet, you know, on the field gangs at five in the morning, you know, just taught himself to play the trumpet.

And he'd been locked up at the time when I knew him. He had already been locked up for 26 years. And I'm sure I think he's still locked up. I got a letter from him a year ago. He's still down. So it's been, man, 40 years he's still locked up. I got a letter from him a year ago. He's still down. So it's been, man, 40 years he's been locked up now. But at the time, 26 years. And this was a big, strong dude who had been locked up for 26 years.

And he really liked me. He just developed this thing about me. And it wasn't like a sexual predatory thing or anything like that. He just really liked me. He wanted to play music with me. And so he had a trumpet and I played violin. And then it just developed into this friendship. And he would just talk to me sometimes.

And it didn't all make sense what he was saying. Because he came from such a different world. And his experience was so different. And being locked up twenties. And this guy who got locked up when he was 19 and was 45 at the time, part of him was 19 still. And part of him was like 145 because that's kind of what happens when you go to the joint. Like you time stand still, like you, you don't age in one regard because you're missing all the shit that would happen to you on the outside, but you age profoundly at the same time in another way. It's kind of a weird contradiction.

We would play music together. Then we would talk. And just from playing music, maybe I was teaching them or maybe they were teaching me or maybe it was ambiguous. But we would just develop relationships. We'd walk on the yard. We'd talk, you know, and just. So the education. Or wait, no, I of questioning my identity through books in this liberal arts education, but paralleled with on the ground, you know, kind of questioning my identity.

And as a musician and as a person, you know, questioning, you know, just everything about how I saw the world and who I was and stuff. And I went through kind of a journey with that. And even after I got out of prison, I have continued to go on that journey as a musician, as an artist, and as a person. And it's changed. But it was really to know thyself, you know, is pretty important. I think when I was in prison and even after I got out of prison, I still didn't know myself but all those things I was exposed to, all these ideas, all these people,

it really had me asking the right questions. I want to get into life after prison and the business world in a second but I just thought it'd be interesting. I want to actually have you get your violin out real quick. Oh, shit. All right, right right right here yeah this is the bow oh this isn't even tuned up i think this one works i'm gonna play uh my daughter's violin cammy your niece is violent so here's what I want you to do. You really put me on the spot here. I know.

It just came to me. So here's what I want you to do. When you're ready. Yeah, okay. Is it tuned up? Yeah, it's tuned. Okay. So I want you to... imagine... Okay, so I want you to imagine the day you got out of prison.

I want you to really breathe it in and imagine the moment you stepped off the prison grounds and you knew you were going to be a free man. and you knew you were going to be a free man. Four years of this journey of the most heavy, crazy experiences you've ever had. The lessons, the people you met, the experiences you had. And I want you to play something from that feeling you had

right after you stepped off. What your life was going to be like afterwards. It could be a song you already know, a song you've played many times. It could be what's coming up for you right now. It could be anything, but the feelings you had the day that you were free.

Well, I'll probably just do an improvisation, I guess. Whatever's coming up. Okay.... Hmm. So what was the feeling then? What was it like when you got out? It was amazing. It was so amazing you know in my senior speech at school i was like terrified to give this speech i don't know if i ever told you this i i remember about that you you did you you gave a speech i don't remember and i mentioned in the speech that that was the happiest day of

my life was when you got out of prison i remember like we had a big sign for you yeah i said welcome home and you called me i think it was from dad's car phone or something at the time and you were out and i would i just got back from like basketball practice or something i had practice so i couldn't go pick you up with like Kat and Heidi. And I remember you were like, I'm coming home, order a pizza. And I was just like so excited. Yeah, I remember that. It was amazing. Yeah, mom and dad came and got me at the county because after,

once they let me go, I had to go to a halfway house from the prison for like a week and then the county, which was ironic. Because the county sucks. It's like the worst. But, of course, I knew I was leaving any day, so I didn't care. I was in the county for five days or something like that. And then mom and dad came to get me, and I stepped out of the county and just got in their car and just driving home.

And it was surreal. And then getting home, and you and Heidi and Kat were all there and came in, and we all hugged, and everybody was surreal and then getting home and you and Heidi and Kat were all there and came in and we all hugged and I was, everybody was crying. I was crying and we ate pizza and awesome. And, uh, just that freedom. I mean, it's interesting that, you know, you asked me to, to play something and to, and to kind of remember that feeling. And because, you know, part of what I do now, one of the things I'm really into, since, you know, my career has gone into so many different phases, not just as a performer, but, you know, really I've become an educator. And a producer. And then, you know, just constantly trying to find new modes of expression,

vehicles of expression for my own creative growth, you know, and part of that is tied to business growth. But, you know, one of the things that I'm really passionate about is teaching musicians to be creative, to practice creativity. How does someone practice being creative? Creativity starts with infinite choice. Creativity starts with infinite choice. When you start down, whether you're going to write a novel or whether you're going to improvise a piece like I just did, or whether you're going to do a fancy move on the basketball court. I mean, it's choice.

It's a series of choices. And you start off with, I mean, if you're a musician, you're sitting down to write something. You start off with infinite choices, infinite freedom. And one of the challenges with creating is that with infinite choice comes this ironic sense of paralysis. Too many choices. Too many choices and you don't know where to start. It's like writer's block. So, like if I said, Lewis, you know, make something up for me right now. Say something, you know, make up a speech, you know, that's five minutes long right now that That's that you're just making up that you haven't said before, you know, you would be

like, what the, I don't know where to start. You know, you'd be stuck. Like most people, I mean, most people would be stuck. And the same thing happens for musicians, especially like a lot of classically trained musicians. Now for, for people like that I met in prison who were self-taught and, you know, maybe it wouldn't be the same because it's a completely different, I like to say culture of education. Um, but a lot of people

that are trained in music, they don't know where to start. They've got all this self-consciousness or they're, they're self-conscious, I should say. Um, they're uncomfortable. They've got all this conditioning that's, that's at work, you know, all this fear all this conditioning that's at work, all this fear, all this training that's made them afraid that somebody's not going to like what they do, like internalized teachers, internalized parents, this internalized audience. So essentially what I do is I say, well, let's break down those infinite choices. And by the way, this isn't like a hugely original idea, I don't think. I think there's a lot of people out here that probably use some of these ideas i've just put my own spin on it but let's break down all those

choices into narrower and narrower choices and the narrower you make it um i mean the more you confine people or restrict people to what choices they can make the more creative they can be they can actually be more creative. Much more creative. Like if I said, Louis, you've got to dribble only with your left hand, you know, for this. And I want you to do a layup, you know, and it's got to be some kind of spin involved in that layup. You'd be like, got it.

And you do something to be really hip, you know what I mean? Right. But if I was like, do like a cool move, you might sit there for like five minutes and like not know what to do. You know, but the more rules I give you, you know, if I said, Lewis, you know, start a business and you're like, I don't know what should I do? I said, no, I want you to start a business that's a local business that involves, you know, information, you know, training in the food market, the more restrictive, and I want you to only use Facebook,

the more we restrict these choices. And you say this to me all the time as a business person. You say, don't get distracted by the shiny, what do you say? Shiny object or new thing or all the all the opportunities coming your way yeah yeah because we get all these you know emails every day like check this out and use facebook and you should this and use that and it's like i'll just use one thing and like do it really well and be creative with it and like go all the way with it so anyway that's in a nutshell, I talk about, okay, let's divide. So for a musician, like for me, if somebody says, okay, compose a piece or improvise a piece, which you just asked me to do. You asked me to improvise a piece.

I say, well, I can start. I have all these options. So let me divide this infinite choice into smaller categories so i start so i have categories like emotions and techniques like techniques on the violin and then like musical concepts and and then within those i have i narrow down even more so okay a happy emotion or a pizzicato technique or a certain tempo and the more i drill down the more i can practice working within those confines. Right. And then once I work with these confines in lots of different configurations, then what actually it ends up doing is I get used to just being creative. So if you say, just remember that feeling that you had when you got out of prison and

just play something. To me, that's like, that's my shit. Now, that's not to say that whatever I do, that somebody else is going to like. Right. Maybe you were like, oh, that's not what I expected or whatever. But it doesn't matter because it's also about- Because they gave you the rules and you got to be creative

how you wanted to be. Yeah. Well, and I didn't necessarily even need a lot of rules. Like you just said, like tap into this feeling. Sure. But for me, that's enough for me. But also a big part of it is that when you practice being creative, you have to learn to trust yourself and you have to learn to do it for yourself.

Like I really get into this thing with musicians. Like if you're self-conscious, if you're afraid to write something, if you've got writer's block, I see this with a lot of classically trained musicians that are like virtuosos, but I'm like, here, you know, make something up for me.

They're like, oh, I can't do it. And they giggle like, you know. What's at the heart of that? What's it? Why? It's fear. And I would say even more. Securities.

Yeah. And I would say even more specifically, why are you playing music then? If you're afraid to make something up for me right now, then you, it follows that you're playing music to impress me or to impress somebody else in the room. You should be playing music for yourself, for your reasons. You should be doing a business for yourself, not because to impress dad or to impress some teacher that you went to school with or to impress some girl or whatever. You know what I mean? And I think if we can tap into that,

like I play music for myself. In that moment, I really kind of remembered how I felt when I got out of prison. And I thought about for a second, oh, I could do this or this would be cooler or people would respond to this or you probably want me actually to do this or do something slick that people are going to be impressed.

And I was like, fuck that. I'm'm gonna play what i feel right now yeah for me i don't give a fuck who likes it but then the thing is somebody will respond to that somebody will connect to to that you know somebody connected with what i played you know maybe a lot of people didn't, but that's your asset. But if you're always playing to please every other person but yourself, you won't have an identity then.

You won't be able to like... It's impossible. Yeah. You can't please everybody. And people disagree about what's good. I mean, you like techno. I can't stand it. Right.

You know, I like really out, like modern jazz. You don't want to hear that shit. Unless you're playing it. Yeah, yeah. But the point is, like, if you play for you, I think creativity is the ultimate equalizer. And what I mean by that is, I'll go back to the story I've told before. You know, I was the first violin player in high school, you know,

but we had this kid that was last year, second violin, Noah Phipps. And man, the kid could not play the violin to save his life. But he would come in with these four-track tapes that he made of him playing drums and guitar and singing. And it was creative. It wasn't virtuosic, but it was creative. And all the girls wanted to talk to him because that was what was cool. And it's like, if you think about whoever you like, the Beatles or, you know,

Jimi Hendrix or Bella Bartok or whatever it is, the reason you're compelled by them is the distinctive originality of what they do. There's people that don't like it. Stravinsky, I mean, they threw fruit at Stravinsky when the rightest string came out, you know, but he was a visionary and I've wrestled with that a lot. You're always telling me I should do more YouTube covers and you know, I have tried to do some,

but I still have to do something that, that speaks to me. And, and I know even if I don't get 82 million views or whatever, you know, the people that it resonates for, I feel good about it. And I know that there are people that can hear one or two notes and they're

like, that's Chris house. They recognize my sound because it's, it is my sound. And it's come from doing creative practice over and over and learning to be, you know, comfortable with that. And that's why we've talked about this before, but this idea of being the best.

I used to want to be the best and I don't want to be the best anymore because I think as an artist, I know I understand if you're playing a basketball game, maybe some, even a basketball game I think is harder to compare because the guy that gets the most points isn't necessarily the best. I mean, he's got a guy that's blocking for him or stealing the ball and passing to him but i mean you know who's saying is it bolt what's it is it what's it usain bolt yeah what's his first name usain bolt usain bolt i mean he was the best runner on that day it was measured you know what i'm saying but doesn't mean he's going to be five years from now because, you know. But in the arts, I don't know, you always want to measure the best because, you know, for every Aretha Franklin, there's a Joni Mitchell.

And why would you want to have – you need to have them both. But also, it was a struggle for me to wrestle with trying to be the best. for me to wrestle with trying to be the best. And I felt like it was not a healthy thing for me to try to be the best. Because there's always going to be somebody that can do something better than you. You can't be the best at everything. I mean, that's just a fact.

And also, I just felt like, in another way, it was just creating, it was just an unhealthy place for me to go at it. So as an artist, my goal is to be honest, is to be creative, is to find my voice and to really be that. Obviously, to try to get better, to try to improve my fundamentals as much as possible. to try to improve my fundamentals as much as possible. But I think it takes courage and it continues to take courage for me every day. And I'm looking to find that courage to really create something that comes from me. And I think this is what, I think you can relate to this idea too, because you're

inspiring people all the time. You're saying, you know, implement, go into action, follow your gut, follow your heart, do the thing you want to do. People are afraid to do it. I think we're talking about the same thing. It's not necessarily about being the best. It's about tapping into your voice. There's some people out there, they're going to want to listen to Derek Halpern and they're going to be more compelled by him than they are by you. You don't want to be like Derek Halpern. You want to be Lewis Howes because the people that Lewis Howes resonates with, that's what it's about.

They're not going to resonate with him in the way they resonate with you. It's different. It's not the best. It's being distinct. It's having a different thing, like a special thing that'll resonate with some people. And then finding that audience and then writing that, and it creates a positive cycle of confidence. And more people resonate with it, and it gets more powerful.

And that's what's happened with you. And the more that I follow that, the more that I feel good about what I do and the more that other people resonate with it too. So teaching creativity has become a thing for me because it's also about me fostering, continuing to be creative in my own life. Because we all want to – I just wrote this article called Finding the Courage to Create. And it's at christianhowes.com. And the whole idea is that the better we get, the more we have on the line. You know, sometimes the harder it is for us to keep taking chances. Because, you know, we're going to make a bigger flop or whatever.

And it's up to us to keep taking those chances, to keep creating. Creating is not rehashing the shit you've done before. It's like doing something new every day. And that could be small. It could be a small thing. It could be like, I only played like 10 seconds, but those 10 seconds, like I was creative in that moment. Yeah.

It's like, and I'm trying to encourage musicians, not on just an artistic level, but also on a personal and on a business level to be creative because I believe that business is a creative process too. I think a lot of artists think that their art is artistic and that business is this other necessary evil. And that if you're good as an artist, then the business will come. And I think the opposite is true. I think you have to look at business as an extension of your creativity. I think you have to do business and that your artistic creativity will follow from that. You have to go sell yourself and get a gig. And once you get that gig,

then you've got to deliver on stage. Right. I mean, you weren't a speaker until you had speaking gigs. I mean, well, you did practice, you know, at Toastmasters, but you really came into your own once you did it. Yeah, failed a bunch doing it yeah and you did you you know you agreed to do a webinar you sold a webinar you didn't even have the product yet then you had to make that product yeah that product has sold for you for the last

10 years but it was only because well i'm sorry five years yeah but uh but that's because you took that creative leap. You're like, I'm going to go out on a limb and I'm going to create this product. Right. So what, what did prison, what did hustle in prison teach you for the last 15 years since you've been out?

Well, you know, I talked about how I developed a sense of purpose in prison and drive. And, and I think that was, that's what it was. Um, that was, that was really it. I just became really driven. I sense a purpose. There was a fear of becoming depressed, you know, in prison there was once, at least once where I was severely depressed in prison. And, um, every day, you know, I, I sort of developed a fear of that kind of depression,

you know, cause I thought, man, this could really slide into a bad thing. And I don't want to live my life like that. I don't want to go into this darkness, you know, so I'm going to fight every day to try to, to make something positive, to make something good, you know? Um, and as I also mentioned to you, I always tried to keep in mind you know how bad things can be sure you know and so all those things have contributed to my continuing to hustle from the moment I got out until and now and and you know I monitor a lot of times the peaks and valleys and you know and am I afraid and why am I in a rut what do I need to do and you know, I monitor a lot of times the peaks and valleys and, you know, am I afraid? Am I in a rut?

What do I need to do? And, you know, you've seen me quit gigs and question. You know, when I got the gig at the Berklee College of Music, it was a huge. I mean, I became an associate professor at the Berklee College of Music and I was there for three years. And that was really prestigious and fulfilling and rewarding on a lot of levels. And for a variety of reasons, you know, a lot of which had to do with family, but a lot of which had to do with my sort of determining my own destiny and creating my own career as an entrepreneur. I decided to quit the job and I really wrestled with that decision. Um, so you've seen me go through a lot of those, you know, it's not like, it's not like

we're just on a straight path up or a straight path down. You know, we go up and down every day and I've gotten a lot of good motivation from you in the last few years as I've watched you pursue this incredible, you know, upward path. I mean, six years ago you were sleeping in this house on my couch with no income and no money. Well,

I was paying you two 50 a month. That was my payment. I started making a little bit of money doing these LinkedIn events. So I was making like a thousand bucks a month, like maybe, or every like couple months or a month like maybe or every like couple months or started to like kind of bring something in but you still but six years ago yeah you were sleeping on my couch and you had no income 2009 yeah or i mean yeah the year

before you were at the music music house you had zero income zero negative income zero you were Zero. Negative income. Zero. You were working with Chris Hawker, the inventor, as an unpaid apprentice, really. Yeah. For a while, for six months or something like that. He started paying me a little bit, but yeah. But I mean, I don't know, very small amount. Paid for food, yeah. Yeah, for food. I mean, you took on an apprenticeship and you were just six years ago.

And now you've sold over 10 million. I don't know, last year over, I don't know if I'm allowed to say how many millions of dollars you've sold of business that you've done. Like millions upon millions of dollars of business and so many projects. And you've had a million, I think almost a million downloads on this podcast, which you've only been running for a year. And who knows how many other products and, you know, affiliations. And, you know, I remember you reading, you know, I gave you Tim Ferriss's book, The 4-Hour Workweek, five years ago, I think, something like that. And you were fascinated by it. And we both were.

And motivated by it, we both were. And then you just went straight forward from there. I mean, you just – I went ape shit. I mean, you made a believer out of me because I've watched you all these years, and I thought, oh, internet marketing, oh, lifestyle design, oh, I don't know. That might be a big scam or whatever. There'd be times when I doubted it, but then I'd see how much you were doing. And I was like, this is real, man.

My little brother's doing this stuff, man. He's like crushing. And so, you know, you're a huge inspiration in that way. But I guess the point is that, you know, I don't want to make it seem like that every single day that I have that same drive, but I try to keep myself, pick myself back up and go for it. And I'm starting a new project, you know, where I'm going to be teaching musicians to take their business in their own hands. Yeah. to, um, to take their business in their own hands.

Yeah. What I want to ask you is what are the one thing that you, maybe not one thing, but what's something you've learned over the years playing on stage in front of audiences? What's something you've learned about how to captivate audiences and keep people connected throughout the entire performance and really just connect with them. Cause I know whenever we go to gigs, a lot of people come up to you afterwards and just tell you how much it means

to them that you're playing, like how inspired they are. And so what is it you learned to do over the years to really, is there a techniques or is there a stories you tell or strategies or eye contact? And what's the things that you've learned to have this poise on stage that really connects people in this magnetic way to be inspired and moved by that's interesting you know it's funny because uh a sort of a protege i guess there's a protege or a student

of mine her name's a former student sort sort of online student, Victoria Yeh, Y-E-H, Victoria Yeh. She's in Toronto. She's a really, really wonderful violinist, but she also does a lot of different things in her life. But she gave a presentation at my annual Creative Strings Workshop, which is the one-week summit for creative string players that I do every year in Columbus.

We've done it for 12 years. She gave a seminar last year on stage presence. And I was kind of like, wow, what's stage presence? But then she did it. And I was like, wow, there really are these great things that you can do. I was really floored because she did a great job showing these sort of like certain physical cues that you can give the audience, right? And almost like politicians, they know about, you know, certain things that they do and you've learned in Toastmasters. Honestly, I haven't learned a lot of that stuff. Like, I mean, what I do as a player, I think,

is I'm really just focused as a player. I mean, sure, I speak and I tell stories to people on stage and stuff. But, um, what I, what I have always focused on is just from a musical side. I mean, since I am an improviser, since I am a jazz musician or a creative musician, um, I focus on trying to find that creative, um, path every night to do something a little bit different. Um, and even if you're giving a presentation or when I'm teaching, you know, um, you find things that you do over and over again, but I'm always trying to do it a little different. I'm always trying to push myself to be on that edge. And that can be tiny chances. It can be small little changes that you make,

but just constantly always thinking, let me just do it. Something take those chances. Cause I think when you take those chances and that's part of being creative, you're, you're taking those chances and live as an improviser, there's this freshness that comes and there's this transcendence that like you eventually you, you, you keep growing through that. Like you're every day you're changing, you're transforming and it's making it fresher and on the edge and people feel that. And there's this power that comes from, you know, being right on the edge. Um, but I always, I always, as a musician, even as a classical musician, I was always intensely focused in on how to make the music powerful, you know, how to, not just how to play the notes, but, but how to, to make a phrase as powerful as you can make that phrase be. I haven't studied that

as a speaker. And I think you have maybe in Toastmasters and stuff like that. Um, I've just only a little bit, you know, but as a musician, I definitely think about every time I'm on stage, I definitely think I'm going to leave it all on the stage. For me, being on stage playing my violin, that is the sacred time for me. That is the sacred moment. In a way, it's like, that's what I live for. I don't corrupt it. You know, I don't drink beforehand or smoke beforehand or anything like that. You know, it's like, I'm in that space. That's

everything I have. And that's everything that I've done up until that moment is for that moment. And, uh, I mean, literally everything. And so I don't know that it's always graceful. I don't know that it always is scripting the audience in the ways that I could to maximize like whatever. But I think that from a musical standpoint, and people, I think, see that in the physicality of what I do or whatever.

But I mean, they see that I'm intensely involved in it. And I think people, you know, they get into that, but, but it's really, if anything, it's that it's just about giving everything I have in that moment.

What's, what's your definition of greatness? I like what Tim Ferriss said on your podcast. It was that episode number 45, School of Greatness? 44? 44. Trying to get better every day, you know, trying to manifest something that your former self would have thought impossible. But sort of what I was talking about earlier with this idea of being creative.

being creative. I think if we're really sort of living lives for ourself, like, you know, not for other people, and I don't mean that in a selfish way. I mean, if you're doing things for your family, if you're doing things for, you know, for others, that can still come from you, you know, but you're not doing it because someone told you to do it. You're really being authentic and finding your voice, what makes you distinctive. Searching for that, searching to be authentically you. I think a lot of people are obsessed with being the best. And we've talked about this before. The competitive spirit is great. But as an artist, for me, I've, I don't know if you want to say resigned myself to not pursue being the best.

Of course, I want to be among the best. I want to be world-class at what I do as an artist. But that comes from your limitations as well as your strengths, especially as an artist. You know, Les Paul, with whom I played for 10 years and who I considered a dear friend and mentor, he played with basically two fingers and a thumb on his guitar until he was 94. I mean, I know that Les Paul knew that he couldn't play as fast as a lot of other guitar players. But he was so Les Paul.

Nobody else could sound like Les Paul. And he used everything that he had. And he worked within the profound limitations that he had. Joni Mitchell, I think from what I've heard, her hands were mangled too. But because of the limitations of Joni's hands, she came up with these open string tunings on the guitar that nobody else had. Miles Davis, as far as I can tell, could not play as fast as Charlie Parker. And once he quit chasing Charlie Parker, and once he started to do the shit that only Miles could do, that was part of the revolution of cool jazz. It was about saying less and saying more with less.

So you find all these great examples of artists who work with their limitations to do something that's profound, that's game changing. It's not because they're overcoming their limitations. Sometimes it's about accepting those limitations and saying, this is a part of who I am. Now let's make it great. Let me accept it and do everything I can with it that's truly authentically me because that combination is unique and nobody else has it. And if I can really buy into it all the way, invest in what I do and find out what that is, let it really evolve and manifest, that is going to be great. People are going to resonate with that in a profound way.

Somebody, some thousand people, some 10,000 people, some five people are going to resonate with it so profoundly. And as an artist, I feel like every person has the ability to do that. Every one of us has the ability to be immeasurably powerful because of our unique voice that we each have, the unique thing that combination that we each have, if we can follow it through. And as artists, you know, and as people, it's easy not only just to recognize how immeasurably powerful we can be, but it's also easy to acknowledge how insignificant each of us can seem. This creates a contradiction which can really stifle

us. And what we have to do is we have to overcome that contradiction. We have to live within that contradiction, recognizing how fallible we are, how limited we are, how insignificant we might be in the scope of things, but at the same time, how immeasurably powerful we can be. And if we can be okay with who we are, with our weaknesses and our strengths, then I think we can be great. So to finish it up, I want you to play one more song. That was a letdown, that last one for you, wasn't it? No, it wasn't. That was a letdown, that last one for you, wasn't it? No, it wasn't.

I want you to play a jazz song that... I want you to play your favorite jazz song that... Can we just put a tape on or something at the end of this interview? No, your favorite jazz... It can be part of it, a minute or something. Favorite jazz tune. People can either know it or they don't know it. It could be yours or someone else's. something favorite jazz tune people can either know it or they're not know it it could be yours or someone else's and i want you to play it with the vision you have from here on out

what do you mean the vision i have vision you have for yourself in the world so i want you to play with that type of inspiration it could be a you know a jazz song that you've either written or that people don't know of and you play it with your vision of yourself and the world moving forward.... Thank you. Hmm. There you have it. Where can we find you online? Christian Howes. hmm there you have it where can we find you online christian house same same spelling as you h-o-w-e-s christian house h-o-w-e-s.com uh thanks bro for uh for having me on this amazing school of greatness thanks for coming on oh no not another one man what an experience what a journey chris has been through after going

through prison and getting out of prison and everything he's created for his life ever since and it's uh it's a pleasure again for me to have him come on. And I appreciate all of you for staying engaged and staying tuned in for both episodes. Again, this unique interview was like a jazz piece for me, but it was a lot of fun. And hopefully you guys got something out of it, as I'm sure many of you did. Again, leave your comments over on lewishouse.com or schoolofgreatness.com and go ahead and check out all the show notes over there there's going to be some videos of chris some other links to his website things like that and i would love it if you shared this over on facebook on twitter on google plus on linkedin anywhere you want to share it online share this with your friends

about this experience and what he's been able to create in his life and this inspiring message of his vision. Wow. I love the songs that he played and I just love the entire experience. Again, thank you guys so much for tuning in. Means the world to me. I appreciate you all. I'm very excited for the guests that I have coming on in the near future. There's some big, big names coming on. I think you're going to love it. But make sure if you have not subscribed yet, go ahead and subscribe on iTunes, on Stitcher Radio, and over on SoundCloud. I'm very excited for the Future of the School of Greatness podcast and where it's going. Again, it was ranked, I think, top 39 overall podcasts on iTunes recently. And with your help, we can get it up there in the top 10.

So thanks again for sharing. Thanks for listening. I appreciate you. And make sure to go out there and do something great. Thank you. um Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon Thank you. Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon