The School of Greatness - 476 Read Minds and Amaze People with the Mentalist Oz Pearlman

Episode Date: April 26, 2017

"The best form of creativity is a deadline." - Oz Pearlman If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/476

This is episode number 476 with the mentalist, Oz Perlman. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. I am so excited about this episode because I've been waiting for someone like Oz to get on the podcast, to share with me their secrets. Now, I love magic.

Share with me their secrets. Now, I love magic. I love deception and sleight of hand and setting up something in one area and then switching it and really revealing something in another area. I love storytelling. And I feel like magicians or mentalists, they have this art, this craft of really telling a story, setting things up the

right way, connecting to your heart and your emotions, and really putting you on a journey to create magic in real life. And I love it. I love whenever I'm around magicians or mentalists because it's always so fascinating for me. So I wanted to bring in Oz to talk about how he does it. And if you don't know who he is, he's a world-class entertainer and one of the busiest mentalists in the country. His client list reads like a who's who's of the biggest politicians, biggest professional athletes, A-list celebrities, and Fortune 500 companies. And in 2015, he was featured on TV's number one rated show, America's Got Talent.

And week after week, he captivated the country with never-before-seen mentalism routines and became quickly a fan favorite. And in this episode, we talk about why people don't like being tricked, but they do love to be amazed and how to differentiate both of those in your work. Also, his best sales strategies and tactics to get consistently booked for great events. Why your mess-ups are where the gold is in life. How deadlines support our creativity. The craziest tricks Oz has pulled off, even when things went wrong on live TV and so much more. I'm fascinated by all the stuff that you're about to learn.

So get ready to dive in and be fascinated as well. And I want to give a shout out to our review of the week. I love the headline. It says, Love. They make LA traffic tolerable. This is by Nikki Krause who says, I am so happy I jumped on the podcast bandwagon. This one is my absolute favorite.

Love the variety of guests on the show and the five minute Friday quickie dose of inspiration is awesome. Thank you so much. So Nikki Krause, thank you for being a dedicated listener and for your review this week because you are the review of the week. And if you haven't left a review yet and you want to be considered as a review of the week, then go to itunes.com slash greatness and leave your review right now. All right, guys, you can share this out with your friends right now. Tag me on Instagram stories and let me know you're listening. lewishouse.com slash 476.

And without further ado, let me introduce to you the mentalist, Oz Perlman. Welcome back to one of the School of Greatness podcasts. We have Oz Perlman in the house. Thank you, man. How are you doing? Thanks, Lewis. We have Oz Perlman in the house. Thank you. Good to see you, man. How are you doing? You too. Thanks, Lewis.

I'm doing great. We're very excited about this. Now, you grew up, well, you were born in Israel. Yep. Grew up in that state up north that we like to call from Ohio. Oh, Buckeye fan. Just got out of here. Dropped the mic.

Exactly. Yeah, Wolverine here. Grew up in Michigan. You went to Michigan. I went to Michigan. And I heard that you paid your way through school through magic. That's exactly right. Mentalism, right?

So I wasn't really a mentalist then. So it's kind of mentalism, it's very unusual. It's a subset of magic. People ask me, are you a psychic, a fortune teller? No. What I do is based on principles that can be learned and taught, but there's an innate talent. I think it's very similar to musicians. I am tone deaf.

You could have me sing for the next 10 years, have the best person train me. I'm not going to be a professional singer. The same applies to mentalism. Some people just, they don't have the knack, the intuition, but if you have it and you can work on it and spend years, you'll get better. I love it.

So anyone could be a mentalist? I kind of believe that. Yeah, I really think anybody could start at some level. Exactly. Got it, got it. But yeah, be a mentalist. I kind of believe that. Yeah. I really think anybody could start at some level. Exactly. Got it. Got it. Okay. But yeah, that's what I did. I did magic tricks throughout high school, throughout. I just started middle school. And then in college, actually, I graduated high school at 16, very young. Really? And I was, so to speak, independent. My parents moved back to Israel and that was it. They're like, pay for college, figure out what you're going to do. That's, I didn't live with them anymore so I got my hustle going.

I had a couple businesses on the side and I did magic at restaurants. Wow. There's another guy from Israel. He still lives there, I believe, who's a mentalist who I met one time

and he blew my mind. Lior. Oh my gosh. Come on, I'm reading your mind, of course. This guy, my buddy.

How many other guys are there? There's not that many. Yeah, exactly. Blew my mind. I saw him on an event like five years ago at a thing called Summit Series. And he was unbelievable in person.

Crazy stuff. Even just his performance style, just his charisma, everything. I was just like, I've been watching how good he is. I'm like, the trick is fine. The trick is mind-blowing. But just his energy and the way he can move people and just, oh, my God, it was powerful. And his like, the way he can move people and just, oh my God, it was powerful. And then he actually, I remember during my book launch about a year ago, a year and a half ago, I was going on Good Day New York.

And he happened to be there. And I go, this is awesome. This is meant to be. Yeah, so I was like, awesome. I want to see what he does. Yeah. And he goes to me like before in the backstage or whatever before he goes, okay, think of like two numbers, right? Yeah. Think of a sports game that you played in, not score two numbers of the score two double digit numbers and then

literally he just came out and says it like at the end and i'm like how is this even possible just like simple stuff like that i don't know how he does it the most simple and the most direct is what hits the hardest he's like this was your number let me write it down and i was like what it is crazy so uh this stuff has always fascinated me. There's another guy that I really like, Steve Cohen. Oh, yeah. He showed the Waldorf Astoria until they sold that hotel. And I went to it like four or five times.

Wow. Yeah. And I brought a group of entrepreneurs to the show one night. I have this mastermind years ago. And I brought a group of entrepreneurs there. And afterwards, he stuck around and did like a Q&A with us to talk about persuasion and psychology and performance, things like that. And I thought it was fascinating. So this is something that's like –

He's a very suave, elegant operator. He's a great guy. Elegant. Like high-class magic, right? It's a Victorian. I mean the show was so – such an experience. You know what I mean? Yes.

It was great. He did the think a drink. Yeah, that's his signature. Yeah, it's crazy. So anyways, I've always been fascinated with this, like I think most people are. You and me both. Right? Yeah.

And I think it's cool that you got into this. I heard from a cruise ship. Is that right? I did. You saw magic on a cruise ship. So we went on a cruise ship. I had a bar mitzvah where it was like a party with me and 10 people. Very humble.

And then the gift, which we'd never been on a cruise. We didn't really do a lot of vacations. I didn't grow up that well off. And we got the whole family. My grandma came in. Everybody went. We went on a cruise ship for like five days to Bermuda, and I'd never seen a magician before.

And when I say obsessed, my dad got me to go on stage with him, and we did this trick, and I came home. I got every book at the library, went and bought every book at Borders, got like 40, 50 bucks together, bought them back to cover, front and back, over and over. For the next five years, you couldn't find me anywhere without a deck of cards. Really? I had waterproof cards in the shower. I kid you not. It was next level intensity. Now, do you do cardistry as well? So I am a magician. I mean, I'm known for being a mentalist now, but most mentalists started as magicians. Got it. Because the same principles you use with magic, for example.

Let's say I look over here. Misdirection. People will look. When you put something in one hand, you want to make it disappear. The way you kind of manipulate people's attention, instead of using props with mentalism, you start losing the props. You just start getting into people's head and learning how they think. Wow. Yeah.

How do you get to learn how people think? practice practice practice books videos other guys so for example like leor and i when leor is on a tv show and i'm on a tv show i've got a few other people that we know like all over the world i've got a good friend in england good friend in australia good friend in argentina and there's a network of us that i would say are kind of the guys who are doing most of the big media appearances right and that's who we spitball ideas off if we come up with stuff yeah say how would we do this I want to get 250 people in a room to all think of the same thing something Lior recently did which is crazy did he do that on tv show he did indeed I predicted the winner of the super bowl three weeks before it happened I said exactly what would happen I said the Patriots would win at the end of the game

on national tv no way can't even tell you how many people bet on it afterwards. And I predicted who's going to win March Madness two weeks ago. We're going to go on next week and see how I did. Both of my teams are still in play for the record. Both of my teams are still in play. You predicted two people. I didn't tell you. I did not predict the whole bracket. I told them there's no way I could do that. But when the sweet 16 was announced, I gave them a letter and said, keep this under lock and key. We read it out loud of which two teams would get there and the score at the end. You had to deconstruct it.

It's a riddle. And next Friday, we're going to reveal it. And I can tell you right now, I'm still in play. Did you get the score right for the Super Bowl? Oh, no. The score of the Super Bowl, I just knew. I told you who would win and that the Patriots would win at the end. And I said, you'll see.

That is crazy. And then on Twitter, people kept writing me the whole time and be like, you jerk. You lost me all this money. And before the game ended, I go, never doubt me. And it blew up, man. It went crazy. It was great. It was great.

So who did you say for the NCAA? Oh, you got to watch. I can't. Oh, you didn't say it. I'm making you work for it. You didn't say it on TV. I said it, but you had to figure it out. It's a riddle.

It explains what years people won in. It was a riddle that you could deconstruct. Wow. And I'm going to reveal it when I go on air, and you'll see it's right there. Can't be missed. I saw Jay Williams post a video on TV recently, and that's when I was like, I got to get this guy on. It was serendipitous. That was so much fun.

Those guys are so great on Mike and Mike. Yes. And I predicted Gonzaga. I don't know if that's your team or not, but- I don't want to say, but let's just say you're looking very good out there. Okay. There you go. Yeah. But everything else has been kind of busted, but that was my- Agreed. This is fascinating, man. And when did you start to, so first you started to, as a magician, learn about misdirection, right? love card tricks i love card tricks coin tricks i loved the the facet of fooling other people and fooling myself the beauty of magic is you can sit at home you can practice endless hours it's just it's i liked

repetition i liked something that i could perfect a craft that i could endlessly do and and the satisfaction of entertaining an audience kind of when you're an awkward teenager i learned this 13 you know magic before girls what, and then I discovered girls like magic. I go, Oh my God, I'm sad. So I just love the feeling, not of fooling people, because if you create this dynamic where I'm smarter than you, I fooled you, then people don't like that. More impressive is engaging someone in a mystery. You don't really get a sense of wonder anymore we're glued to our phones we're glued to the tv what do you experience day to day just kind of things happening you don't really get that moment that you did when you were a kid when you see

something for the first time right that wonder so that's what i try to instill in people when i'm doing the show i want that feeling of even if you know i don't say that i'm psychic or a fortune teller but when you see some of the things i do and like when you referenced my friend Lior, like when you see some of those things, it just makes you for a moment go, wow, how, and you don't get that feeling very often anymore. Yeah. We have everything at our fingertips. We always have the answer. We always have, you know, everything has a solution. And, and very few, few times are there things that you can just take, I wouldn't call it on faith, but that really expand your mind that go, how, Are there things that you can just take?

I wouldn't call it on faith, but that really expand your mind that go, how can you do that? And you go, you can't, but you did. And it's just that feeling creates a memory that people really remember, especially when you do an emotional hook. So on a card trick, a card trick's great, but it doesn't come close to the heart versus when I tell someone, think of someone that you care about deeply. And then I tell them who they are, what their birthday is, all these things about them. That really sticks with you. Yeah. Can we start with a card trick? Do you have a card? I do not have cards. Okay. No worries. I'm curious if you can,

if you can demonstrate something about misdirection, if you can do something small or simple with me right now, we can demonstrate. Well, misdirection, I mean, is more magic based. But let's, let's, let's switch gears to gears to you yes and how many podcasts have you done at this point what's the number 460 464 humble brag no big deal over here what so you've gotten a chance to meet probably some of your idols i mean people that you before you started this couldn't even dream to have met i'm guessing i mean i've had the same experience where it's amazing to meet people that you looked up to idolize, just really to pick their brain. I walked in here earlier today and I immediately shook your hand. And then you asked me questions. You said, what would I ask you? And I said, what were some of your most moving

interviews? And I told you, think of someone, cause I I've met Tony Robbins, incredible, incredible person. And I said, think of someone you haven't interviewed, but you would absolutely love to meet and pick their brain and think about them. And immediately you thought of somebody on the spot. But then I said, don't do someone obvious because you've probably spoken about them on the podcast, correct? So you changed gears. I'm guessing you changed your mind several times before you finally said, this is the person I'm going to go with. Am I correct? Correct. Now it's really important that they know you didn't whisper this to somebody. You didn't write this. You didn't put this anywhere other than somewhere that you would find it in your own mind. Correct? Like

right now, there is no way that I could dissect this other than getting inside your head. Correct. Here's what I want to do. We talked about misdirection, no misdirection. You're going to answer questions for me, but purely in your mind. So I'm going to ask you, is it a guy or is it a girl? I don't want you to say anything. I just want you to think the word yes when I get to the question. Try not to say anything. Think, is this a guy? Think, is this a girl? So you didn't do much, but you were very clear cut in what you did. You look this way. It's a guy. Tell me the truth. Am I correct. That was easy. Also, if it was a woman, you'd have been a lot more excited. Would have scratched that healthy stubble. Next up, think of what world this person resides in.

I know you, incredibly accomplished athlete. I think that would have been too obvious for you. Don't say, but think if this person's an athlete. Okay, good reaction. Think if this person, what could we do? Is somebody personal growth? Someone kind of inspirational, along the lines, inspirational? No, okay, no. Think of this person, a movie star. Think music. Think what other worlds could we do that I think you would be into? Keep thinking, keep thinking.

Athlete, politician, comedian, rock star. Alive, dead. This person's alive. This person's in comedy. Something about the hair. He looks like me. Are you thinking of Jerry Seinfeld? Yeah.

Lewis is freaking out. Everybody else in the room is about to walk out of here. They're like, stay out of my head. That's good. That's good, man. So I've got your tells.

If you want, we're going to play poker right after this. Let's get some money together. Let's get you down to the wire. Perfect, perfect. That's great, man. Thank you. Let's get some money together. Let's get you down to the wire. Perfect, perfect. That's great, man. Thank you.

That's amazing. Now, the question you always get is, how'd you do it, right? How'd you do it, right? That part's not as good for my job security. It's all good. It's all good. I love it, man.

This stuff is fascinating to me. And you did some other tricks with, or you did some other, I guess, setups for potential mentalism. Well, I just told people, yeah, to think of some stuff. Yes. Really challenging stuff.

Some people on my team. So we're going to have them come in later. For sure. And see if you can guess certain things that they had. Now, what made you want to, now I heard you were in the corporate world. I was. You were in Wall Street. So I went to school and it's very funny.

Certain people, I've met people that are so focused. Like I met this one guy, he's 18 years old recently. Knows exactly what he wants to do. He's been doing magic since he was five. He's going to school and studying like media and communications, all these things that are going to help him. I was not that. I had no idea that this is what I was going to do for a living. Honestly, I went to school, was very good at math. I was somehow, even as a child, almost prodigy level at math. It just came easy. I got a perfect score on the SAT when I was 12 at math. Wow. I was the opposite. When I was 25, I got the worst score. But English and

all those other subjects were so-so, but math, I can't explain it. It wasn't like a showing off thing. I just got it. Do you understand what I mean? It wasn't even I had to work for it. I just clicked in my mind. Like Rain Man. A little bit, a little bit of that. And so I went to school. I started computer engineering. Didn't get into programming, but the closest thing to that was electrical engineering. My sister worked in New York. She's eight years old.

And she's like, get a job in tech. You're going to make money. I didn't know what to do. So I got a degree in electrical engineering, went to work on Wall Street, got a pretty great job at Merrill Lynch. And the whole time I was there, I kept doing this on the side. And it wasn really, you know, normally now when I tell people create goals,

quantifiable goals, people that want to become a professional performer and start making those goals happen, put them down on paper, make them a reality. For me, it's so weird because I just had that hustle in me because this is how I paid for stuff when I was a teenager, when I did this. So when I went to a restaurant, you better believe I would find the manager and say, Hey, let me show you something cool. Do something for her or him. Then get, uh, you know, some of the waiters over, start blowing people's mind. And then I had my sales pitch to be like, do you have any entertainment here? And I go, this is a great spot. And they go, Oh no, we don't do that. And I go, how about this? You guys enjoyed it. Why don't I come on a slow night for you Tuesday? No money.

Don't pay me a dime. And if every single person that walks out of this restaurant doesn't tell you how great of a time they had, how they're going to bring more people and they're going to come back, get rid of me. No harm, no foul, no hard feelings. How do you say no to that sales pitch? Free. Exactly. Free where I'm going to make you look like a star. And I would just, I don't even call it balls to steal. That's just, that was my hustle. I could do that anywhere. And I would make it so that people couldn't say no. I would figure out in my mind in a sales call. I consider myself a salesperson, more an entertainer.

Where are my stumbling blocks, my roadblocks? Where's he gonna say, oh, I have to ask the boss. So right away I take the, I go, you don't have to pay me. Why do you have to ask anyone? You're gonna look like a star if this works. And if it doesn't, no awkward feelings, I leave. You don't have to, everything about it, take away barriers to entry. So I was doing this on the side and I kept getting more and more shows. And it got to the point where I was doing

so many on the side that I said, what if I take a leap of faith? And finally the moment came, I did a show for the CFO of my company. Had no idea who I was. The event planners in my company booked me for it. Really? and I did a trick for him where I made one dollar bills turn into hundreds and this guy's Australian he starts laughing he goes

we gotta get you working here for us and everyone laughs all these senior guys and I go I do work here for you and they think I'm joking around I go I work in your

global technology services department and the guy looks around like befuddled and he goes what the hell are you doing working here mate and right there boom in my mind I was like the second biggest guy at the company just said to me what are you doing

here and it kind of like flipped a switch and i go what am i doing working here and i said what's the worst case scenario if i leave now i've got some savings i'm not gonna starve hopefully i can make it a few months i'll give myself a year to see how it goes and the first year was definitely a bit more lean yeah because you need to be hungry if I had something cushy right off the bat I don't think I would have gone out there and hustled and like every day like give myself tasks meet people go to event planners get things going because nobody's gonna make it happen for you especially in entertainment most businesses you're not out there doing it there is no magic moment where you see

this one agent he sees you goes'm going to make you a star. That doesn't happen. It's like 10 years to become that overnight success. And when did you leave? How many years ago was that? Can you believe this? It's April of 2005. It's going to be 12 years.

It's like shocking to me to believe it, but that's when I left. You've been hustling for a long time. I have. Amazing. And in 2015, a couple of years ago, you were on America's Got Talent. That was the rocket engine, I got to say. That's the big one. So you were just kind of hustling and you would book a corporate gig or a local gig. And then you would just say, hey, bring me back in six months or bring me back next year

or just keep trying to get clients, essentially? I've never advertised. I've never bought an advertisement, ever. Honestly, my way of doing it was at first restaurants where I would go to high-end corporate restaurants with corporate expense accounts. So the people there are movers and shakers. Steakhouse, Italian restaurants, just places where I know you've got movers and shakers,

people that are going to make decisions. Those people could book you for their- Exactly. Somebody with disposable income. And from the beginning, my look, my brand, which I know is a cliche word, was meant to be corporate. Like I wanted to be in suit and tie.

I wanted to be the guy who spoke the corporate lingo and knows that when you bring me in, the most important thing for you is looking like a star. Because if you put your name on the line to have me at a corporate event and I say something off color, if I embarrass people, if I make people feel uncomfortable, that's your butt. So my whole goal was benefits-oriented. I'm going to make you look like a star. This is going to be an event everybody there comes and talks about and comes up to you and says, where did you find this guy? I want to make you look good.

Forget about talking up myself. That's what my promo does for me. I want to make the person I'm working for just absolutely shine and be as low-maintenance and easy to work with as possible. And that's been my MO from day one. You remind me of my brother. He's a jazz violinist. Yeah. He's the number one jazz violinist in the world.

Wow. And when he started, he went to high-end Italian restaurants and would just play on like a Sunday brunch or whatever and hustle and just say, hey, I'll do it for free. Just pay me tips. And then he would start to get paid. And then he would start to get bigger events. And it kind of grew from there. But it was all him selling. It wasn't like someone was pitching him, no agent doing anything. It's fascinating, man. And so what did you start making kind of early on? What was like a gig? Like after your first couple of years out of

corporate life and you're doing this, was this like a couple hundred bucks? It's a couple thousand bucks. It's kind of like- I mean, it would vary in the early days. I mean, four or 500 bucks. Yeah. And then slowly it ramps up. Yeah. So I think that a tough part

when you're your own business. So when you're the sole proprietor of a business, most people devalue themselves, right? So it's a funny thing where if you're doing something you love, to even get 500 bucks to go do something for an hour and a half sounds to me in my mind like a lot of money. I've never really advanced. There's a restaurant I used to order delivery from. It's called Senor Pollo. This is

a ridiculous story, but that's where I would order $16 a meal. I could eat that for two days. In my mind, the way I related wealth was if I just made 500 bucks, that's 30 meals from this restaurant. I'm still that guy. I could have 20 million in the bank. There's still some part of me that always goes back to like that's – I could eat that many times. And so when you are doing a show and you're getting paid what's incredible money for doing something you already love to do, then at a certain point it becomes difficult to start saying, well, I should be charging more. Right?

Because you're still stuck in that mode of I'm lucky to be getting what I'm getting. And so you seem to hold yourself back. And I think for a few years, I was my own worst enemy. Really? Oh, for sure. Charging like $500,000 a day. Yeah, just not being where I should be based on the market and based on my experience. And based on the value you're bringing people. Exactly right.

Blowing people's minds. And they're like, this is incredible. We've got to steal for this. You know? Exactly. And I think that happened for a while and even at certain points

to this day, if I didn't have kind of representation, that was a big shift that happened to get a manager and agent to kind of take myself out of the negotiating process

is I'm a people pleaser. So if I've had a client for five years and they've booked me over and over, I go, ah, you know,

I'll do it for whatever and that's, at some point, that becomes a mistake because people do take advantage and you have to. If you're traveling and over. I go, ah, you know, I'll do it for whatever. And that's, at some point, that becomes a mistake because people do take advantage. And you have to. If you're traveling and you're gone all the time, it's like.

Exactly. You've got a kid, you've got a wife. I do have a kid, yeah, exactly, and a wife. That's amazing, man. Yep. Crazy. So it was essentially 10 years until you got America's Got Talent, right?

Correct. 10 years you got to America's Got Talent. But you were doing big shows locally kind of in the region in New York. And flying around here and there. Here and there, but mostly in the Northeast, it sounds like, right? Yep.

From these restaurants and the corporate life that you'd meet people at. And what made you decide then you were going to go on America's Got Talent? Because it had been around for many years. Oh, yeah. Why that year? Or had you tried to get on before?

I had tried to get on before. So a lot of people, that's the funniest thing, is they'll ask you, well, you got lucky or the timing. I go, no, I tried to get on before? I had tried to get on before. So a lot of people, that's the funniest thing is they'll ask you, well, you got lucky or the timing. I go, no, I tried to get on three years earlier. Really? And didn't get on. Didn't even make the first round. Were you not as good then?

So I think it's twofold. One, luck and timing are everything in life. I mean, you have to make your luck to some degree, but timing is a big part of it. So in that one, I got more of a red carpet rollout. I had a producer call. I had been on Jimmy Fallon and somebody had seen me and they go, let's bring him on. And when I came on, I was doing a mentalism trick, but I walked into a room that was empty. So imagine right now, if I walked into this room with just a camera person and they go, do your thing. And I go, I'm a mind reader.

I got to read somebody's mind. People need to be here. Yeah. You kidding? So it's kind of like a comedian doing a joke to an empty room where no one laughs. So they bring somebody in and it was just a page that wasn't paying attention. And I did it. And even during the middle, he was taking calls and it was just flustered and it was just completely fell flat. Oh man. But honestly, I think it was a mixed blessing, blessing in disguise.

I think that those three years during those three years was the busiest of my life in terms of, I was probably doing four restaurants a week, doing four or five shows a weekend. I was hustling up the 10,000 hours and then some. I did about 200 to 265 events every one of those years. And that's where you learn. When you mess up, that's when I learn the most. When I do a show and something bombs or I mess something up, that's the sweet spot. If I kill it and get two standing ovations, yes, that's good for my ego, but you don't learn anything from that. So those shows and learning how to approach people, like restaurants are so great because you're walking up to somebody, you're invading their space, right? Who is this person? What do you do? What do you want from me? All of those ways to kind of learn how to ingratiate yourself to somebody and take away those barriers. What do they think when I walk

up to them? Is he crazy? Does he want my money? What is he going to do? Is he going to keep doing this? Will he leave? I know every single question you're going to think, and I know the moment you think it, and I know how to diffuse that tension. That's my... And address it right away.

Right away. I'm not here to take any of your money. I just want to, you know, whatever it is. In subtle ways. Exactly that. Where you mentioned, you're so lucky tonight. I'm coming over.

The host brought me in for a little bit of fun and you leave it mysterious. There's so many little tacit implications to what I do, like very subtle things. But long story short, I wanted to try out again because my wife watches the show here and there and then I have a few friends that are massive Howard Stern fans.

Really? One of my best buddy's brother was like, you gotta go on, Howard's gonna love you. And every year something went wrong. One year the best buddy's brother was like, you got to go on. Howard's going to love you. And every year something went wrong. One year the thing was during the Super Bowl and I went to the Super Bowl every year for seven years for a show. Next year it was 14 degrees outside and there was a line wrapped like three blocks around. I'm like, I'm not waiting in this. And finally the year I did it, I did an open casting call, which is you go into a, like an airport hangar with about 8,000 people. You wait all day. I did an open casting call, which is you go into a, like a airport hangar with about

8,000 people. You wait all day. I was there for 10 hours, walk into a room, you know, eight people, very much like no red carpet, just go in there. No ego, do your thing. And went in there full confidence. Like I'm, I got this. And I, you know, blew their minds, blew their minds. 10 hour wait 10 hours man all day were you nervous were you thinking about what you were

going to do or you've done this for years you were just like I already know what I'm going to do you know when you feel the best

is when you don't care there's some power to not caring it's almost as if I would say it's almost like being the ultimate wingman when you walk into the bar

and you're already taken it's almost like it's easier because you don't have that hint When you walk into the bar and you're already taken, it's almost like it's easier. Yeah, because you don't have that hint of desperation. I just talk freely. I feel good about it. And so it's exactly that. When you don't want things,

they tend to fall into your court. So in this case, I thought, I thought I'm not going to get on the show. Nothing's going to happen. Let's go have fun. Screw it. Let's do it. And went in there like I own the place.

I mean, the jokes I made, I go, we could stop. I did a crazy trick for them and I go, we're done, right? Just give me the million bucks. The show's over. I got this. And they just, I go, we could stop. I did a crazy trick for them, and I go, we're done, right? Just give me the million bucks. The show's over. I got this. And they just loved the jokey manner.

Yeah. And it worked out. And every round was just more pressure. It built me up as a performer. Because you've got to come up with something new and better each round. It's crazy. And you know how many eyeballs. It was the biggest show on TV.

I think the finale we did, it was about 13 million people watching. And it's live. And you can't mess up. You got third, right? I got third. How did you not win? I remember watching some of these episodes and I was like,

how is this guy doing this? You did like a whole cut out of Oprah's face. I did, yeah. Howard Stern thought of Oprah and I cut her out, yeah. That's one of my signatures. So the same way you mentioned different people,

the drink thing for Steve Cohen. That's your signature. Somebody thinks of a celebrity and I cut out a silhouette of their face. I'm known for that for the last 10 years. It's a very old, everything's reinvented in our craft. Sure, sure. But this is something from the 1920s that I kind of dug up and started doing that nobody was doing. And I reinvented it and changed it.

It used to be a big stage production. Now I just do it right in front of your face, up close and personal. I did it last night where I had everyone in the audience think of someone no every just like you thought jerry seinfeld everybody and i started telling every single person and then the last guy i took out a piece of paper i cut out a picture of donald trump for him no way do you still have it you gave it to him i gave it to him like i gave him a magnet to put on the fridge yeah wow yeah so it was a trip and they were freaking out, man. This is crazy. Half the people loved him, and the other half were like, you like Donald Trump?

I mean, it was very – Yeah, it's funny. So when you're going through the rounds, how many shows was it? Six. The final. Six shows. You had to come up with six different performances? It's almost like the final four, man.

It's almost like March Madness. And you need to stagger them where you don't want to – You want your best until the end. Exactly. You put your, like one group, they thought they were going to win the whole thing. I honestly believe their second act, there was this dance group that was so amazing in their second act

that they could have won the whole show with that act. They blew it. Exactly right. They went too big. You go here, you go here, and then you go down to here. How are you going to top that? Exactly. You need that element of going bigger every round and stepping it up

now did you know all six performances absolutely not you didn't know that oh my goodness no so you came up with them on the fly

every week so much of it because really yeah and it's very difficult because for what I do so much of it

like later on you're going to bring in Sarah who I I walked in how long did I meet Sarah when I walked in 10 seconds exactly and so for meet Sarah when I walked in? 10 seconds. Exactly. And so for a stranger, when I do my show, so much of what is built into it is making sure that the people chosen are at random. Yes. I did a show in Washington DC a

few days ago for 5,000 people. We throw Frisbees out in the crowd, like little crappy Frisbees that everyone catches. So, you know, there's just no way you could know. And they all stand up and I read every one of their minds when they think of stuff. Wow. So when you're watching that, you know it's not fake. So the problem with the America's Got Talent is you have four judges who are each superstars. Heidi Klum. So I can't tell them stuff about them.

Your daughter's name. I could go on Wikipedia for that. Right, right, right. So you have to create very unique things that people know weren't staged or set up. You've got to do things where they're in the moment, they're live, they're real, and you know, you can see the randomness. Like, for example, my last thing was something where I had them all sit on chairs. Yes, so they pick the colors?

Yeah, like everyone pick envelopes and change envelopes and change chairs, and it's just like a cluster, I won't swear, a cluster, a mess, yeah. And then they all open up their envelopes, and they all have colors. And then we have these pulleys attached, and they stand up from their chairses and they all have colors. Yes. And then we have these like pulleys attached and they stand up from their chairs and you pull off in the red one, somebody was sitting in a red chair and this one and this one.

And at the end I had one with my thing and I say to them, swear on somebody's life that we didn't set this up. Swear. And one person swears on their dog and one person swears on their kid and one person swears on their mom and they turn the sheet around and the names of everyone they swore on were on the back. So you know

that they didn't fake it. That's crazy. But you have to like come up with crazy stuff like that. It's tough. And a lot of time you come up with it

in like a week. You have the highs and the lows. You make it through. You get a vote and you're in. Now what? Exactly.

And while you're on the high the producer comes up to you and goes backstage and like hey by the way we need something even better in five days. Tell us tomorrow what it is. And while you're on the high, the producer comes up to you and goes backstage and like, hey, by the way, we need something even better in five days. Tell us tomorrow what it is. And you're like, oh, your stomach is in knots. So are you talking to like your mastermind of mentalists and saying, hey, I need to come

up with something. What is this? Exactly right. And it's just going to blow people's mind, but not too big. You know, it's I can't tell you the best form of creativity for me personally is a deadline is pressure. Of course, if you tell me you need to do of creativity for me personally is a deadline, is pressure. Yeah, of course. If you tell me you need to do something crazy in two days for this TV show, nothing gets

me driven more than that. And where do I do it? I'll go run. I mean, I'll go run 20 miles. Right now, I'll listen to maybe a podcast, but if I need the zone, zone out. I just go running and I look like a crazy person. I'm talking while I'm running and I'm figuring, I'm like, yes, that would be crazy. And what if this person does that?

And I just like, I don't know how, but that's when the inspiration strikes. The shower and while I run. Running and working out. For me, I get in the zone. I have my best ideas when I'm running too. I always come back

and I'm like, talk to my team. I'm like, okay, we're doing this now. You know, it's like everything I want to do comes from running. And you're an ultra marathoner. I am. You've done like every long-distance race there is

from Badwater to... I did one called Spartathlon, which was my toughest one ever. It's in Greece. Wow. I wonder if your buddy Rich has done it. So the story goes...

Did you ever see the movie 300 with Gerard Butler? Like where they're super badass? Spartan. Exactly. So in that story, they show this guy when the Spartans,

the 300 of them, you know, the Persians and they fight them. They sent a foot messenger from Athens to Sparta. And the story goes that in 36 hours,

he ran there and alerted the Persians and that's how they stopped them at Thermopylae. Like if that guy wouldn't have done that run, we wouldn't have civilization. So the Greeks,

they, it's unlike any race in the world ever. Everyone gets involved. As you're running, people are honking their horns. 153 miles. When you get into the town,

all the kids, the local kids ride their bikes next to you for the last mile. No way. You get to the finish, everyone's in togas. You kneel at the statue of King Leonidas. You kiss his foot

and they give you water that was brought up from this river. And then the town, they do a full parade for you. The mayor comes, 20,000 people. It's nuts. It's so epic that anyone who does it once has to do it again. So I did it the first time and crash and burn, man. Crash and burned. Didn't finish it. I didn't know what I was in for. How many miles is it? It's 153 miles. And the challenge is it's in 36 hours. Oh, no. So if you do the math, you have to be running the whole time.

In a lot of these races, you can have a lull. You can have a train wreck. Walk. You can sleep a little. This is a day and a half where if you're not running the whole time, you're out. And you need to be running fast. This person ran 150-something miles? Who did?

This messenger? That's what they say in flip flops. No Gatorade or Nikes back then. It wasn't a marathon. It was a hundred and something miles. Oh, this is six marathons in a row. Wow. In 36 hours.

Correct. Holy cow. And so, yeah, I did it the second time we came back. It was me and a buddy. And man, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. It was nuts. And you finished it? Finished it in 33 hours and done. It was nuts. And you finished it? I finished it in 33 hours and change.

Oh my gosh, dude. How many people race? So that year was the hottest year in the record of them doing it. It was about 95 degrees. It was 90% humidity and there's nothing. There's no ice or anything. Oh my gosh. It was a 19% finisher rate.

So one out of five finished. How many went? I think they allow like three, they cap it. I think it's about 350. Wow. And I think like 68 or 67 of us finished. That's it.

Yep. Wow. And it's all mental. Yeah. So the part about that race that's so amazing is the night when I folded, the first time I did it, when I got to like 78 miles

and I just, I couldn't do it. I dropped out. I saw people come after me and I'm talking like a guy that's 62, a woman that's 58. All of those people are objectively in such worse shape than I was then. I mean, there's no, there is no comparison. I am so much faster. I have better endurance. I have, you know, I'm younger than them and they finished. And the next day I slept a full night, went out there and you're emotional watching these people that gutted it out because at that level, it's all your mind. It's all mental toughness and telling yourself,

I am not going to stop. I will die on this course before I make it to that finish. And you need that mental fortitude. And I didn't have it that year. And then the next year when I came back, there was body bag or finish line. Like that was it. Yeah. You got to, I don't know how to explain it. Like you need to know you're going to finish. How did you feel afterwards? I was a wreck. So like two weeks you're probably like trying to recover, right? I was just – I mean I don't want to spare you the details, but chafing and lost toenails and, you know, it's just – it's a wreck.

Wow. Pain is temporary. Glory is forever. That's how I think about it. Any pain that I'm going to get, it will go away. But that moment, that crossing the finish line, kissing the foot of that statue, that will be with me until the day I die.

Oh my gosh. That's amazing, man. Did someone finish with you or you've got only one? This is my buddy. His name is Michael Arnstein. He's known as the fruitarian. He only eats fruits and vegetables. You crossed at the same time or did you... This is very funny. We did the whole race together. At a certain point, I fell asleep. I passed out during the race we to make it fun at 93 miles they put a mountain in

the middle from 93 to 100 miles straight up a mountain and you know at certain parts you're like crawling it's like bam and so i had to sleep and when i say sleep this isn't you know the four seasons this is me getting on the road rocks and saying to somebody, wake me up in five minutes, like the aid station person. Because I just couldn't move anymore. And he kept going and I caught a second wind. And people that do ultras learn this. Like a marathon is one thing. But in ultra, you have ups, you have downs, and it really tempers you in life.

Like I think of life as an ultra. I think of like things that I go through. I get in arguments with people. I go, I got to get through these. Like I try not to sweat the petty stuff because I know things are going to suck, but they will get better. And that's like a mindset. You really, I've learned it from running a hundred miles because it's never going to be fun the whole time. If it's fun the whole time, something's wrong with you. There's going to be parts where you sit there and you think just like people would that are, I'm crazy. Like, what am I doing here? I could be sitting,

drinking a beer, watching TV. What the hell am I doing on the side of this mountain in the middle of the night? And when you get to the finish, it all becomes worth it. Wow. So,

um, yeah, man, it was, you get a metal or anything else, or is it more like you get some trophy, but I've got those in like a box in storage. Like I put some of them up that really meaningful, but the thing that that it's it's the accomplishment yeah because not many people

have done that uh not many people have done it and it takes a special breed of psycho to want to do it to be honest crazy man now how do you train your mind to be that mentally tough uh personally I really wonder I think that the harder i train the more easy the race is later and also just the um i gotta just wrap up that story i just gotta tell you about us finishing together we finished together arm and arm no way yeah yeah with usa and we were two of three usa guys that finished because the year before nobody finished from the usa wow so it was really emotional but then that we stopped us and they give you like some time at the statue because for a lot of people this there's people that try this thing for years and don't finish years we'll come back but year

after year so i walked up to the statue first which is funny because there was a mat that's a timing mat and he walked up like eight seconds after me we finished together but i always bust his balls now that i'm like oh i beat you beat you. I beat you by eight seconds just because I walked over. But I will train for these races by, I will just go, there's a mountain near us in New York City called Bear Mountain. It's about 60 miles north. I'll go out there with a cooler,

with Gatorade, with gels, by myself, and I'll just run up and down that mountain for eight or nine hours straight. Just like that. Listening to podcasts usually. Wow.

I listen, I remember once with yours, with Tim Ferriss, and then I listened to this one, Dan Carlin, Hardcore History. I listened to like six or seven hours of Genghis Khan just going up and down a mountain. Wow. And you know, there's other nut cases. There's people, mostly cyclists. And they'll be cycling for five hours and they'll keep seeing you and be like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm training to run a hundred. And they're like, I don't even want to bike a hundred.'s crazy. Yeah, yeah. Wow. What gets you, why do you keep wanting to do that? I don't know.

When I got out of school, I was a swimmer in high school. I was never a very good athlete. I was not a runner. That's the weirdest part. I hated running. I did one season of cross country. I merely did it not to be too crude because all the chicks were really cute in cross country.

One of my buddies was dating one. So I'm like, let's do it. Let's see what I can, you know? And I was the worst on the team. The worst. Later on when my cross country coach found out that I've won all these marathons, he goes, O's? How many O's? It can't be the same one. And I got out of school and I started kind of not really being in shape anymore and just going to work and drinking and just, I don't know, like I, I, I didn't have something to look forward to. Now, this is a very first world problem. I really want

to put this in perspective. I'm making good money. I have a roof over my head. I have, I have, you know, everything is comfortable, but I didn't want comfort. Like I needed something that's going to challenge me, something that I see a date in my calendar that I can circle and say, I have to do this, you know, cause if you don't push yourself, nobody else will. And so that's what I did. I did a marathon. My sister did a marathon. She's eight years older than me. She's not really like an athlete. So I couldn't believe she was doing a marathon. I go, this is nuts. And it was sibling rivalry. I'm going to do a marathon too. And my first one was miserable, awful, brutal. I was like crying for two miles. I was walking. Yeah. and uh i said i can do

better than that and that's when i got hooked and i'm an addictive personality yes so the same thing with magic when i got into it when i got into running obsessed i'm gonna get to the bottom of this i'm gonna be the best i can possibly be at it i'm gonna be very competitive i like to win um and i don't know that's i just I don't really do stuff halfway. I kind of get fully into it. Yeah, I think that's the only way you can be great is if you're all in. Now, in your mind, who's the greatest magician and the greatest mentalist besides yourself? I'm not the greatest, but I appreciate that.

Of all time? Or right now. Who would you look at as a magician who you're like, that person is unbelievable and mentalist. So it's like stepping on the shoulders of giants. Like you could say people that right now I admire, but it's kind of like in music, like Chuck Berry just passed away and he created everything else. Like everybody, the Rolling Stones, you look at the Beatles, like he's the guy that started things. So, you know, without them, you can't make it. So like you look at a Houdini, Houdini just changed the playing field of what we do. He was the first person who mastered the publicity stunt of just really exploiting the

public's attention. So I've always loved just amazing. And also a lot of appeal. Like he was a rabbi's son in Appleton, Wisconsin. I lived in Wisconsin. You're there. It's just crazy. David Blaine, epic, epic, crazy. Just interview this guy so bad. You should incredible. And so like, just these are people that redefined a genre. And there's so few and far between that anyone that can do that, that can redefine something, right? Completely change what it is. Catch a bullet in his mouth and hold his breath for like 20 minutes

or something crazy in water or whatever he did. I was in an Uber two days ago. I was right here right by you at the Beverly Hilton. This guy picks me up and he sees me. I have this like silver briefcase that I bring my show in. And it's very attention grabbing. He's like, what are you, man? What are you?

And I go, I'm a mentalist. Yeah, a hit man. And he's like, what's a mentalist? I'm like, it's like a magician, but just for your mind. He goes, I love David Blaine. And he believes, he explained to me that David Blaine is not from this planet, that he's not from this dimension.

It was so funny hearing this guy talk about. He's like, you don't understand. He goes, you probably just do tricks. And I'm like, yeah. He goes, David Bl's not from this dimension. It was so funny hearing this guy talk about it. He's like, you don't understand. He goes, you probably just do tricks. And I'm like, yeah. He goes, David Blaine doesn't do tricks. He's tapped into another dimension. And here's the thing. In a sense, he is.

I'm not going to talk. And so are you. Yeah, I guess. Then most people, you know. I love hearing that. I love hearing that, that that's what he was able to make someone think and convey. And that is so epic. And so to me, that's just a trip.

So long story short, those are two of the biggest, you got to talk about David Copperfield. Huge. There's more inside people that I would know that you wouldn't know that are kind of like pioneers, like people that are behind the scenes, they're inventors, they're creators. There's a guy named Paul Harris. That's brilliant. Just one of the most brilliant minds ever in our art. And when I was starting, when I was like 14, 15, I got all his books and I just like, it had such an impact on me. And I've met him since. He's incredible. He worked with David Blaine on a few of his specials. The best mentalist in the world, hands down, is a guy named Darren Brown. Who's the guy from London?

He's from London. This guy's unbelievable. He had a show for a while, right? He's had so many shows. I've been obsessed with his show. Years ago, I'd watch him on iTunes and I was like, This guy is unbelievable. He had a show for a while, right? He's had so many shows. I've been obsessed with his show. Years ago, I'd watch him on iTunes, and I was like, this guy's amazing. So Darren Brown, again, just is the one who redefined what we did. So whereas it used to be more of a little creepy, a little, I don't know, there were different undertones. He just made it such a classy art form.

And just the public latched onto him, and he created all these things in England, like Channel 4 and theater shows that were so unique and interesting. He's actually performing in New York soon. I'm giving him a plug, and I already bought front row seats, and I cannot wait.

I've never met him. I don't know the exact start date. I'm going to see it end of April. Wow. But it's a limited run, and I have friends that are flying in to New York just to see it because it's such a one of a once in a lifetime. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. He is a fascinating guy and he's like, he can like pick pocket and do all sorts of stuff. He's like, he's into hypnosis.

He just, he's more than just a mentalist. Right. He's all about the mind and just all the facets and explain to you how it works. It's almost like brain games on steroids with an element of fooling you. So I mean, he should use that. I'm going to call him and be like, trademark that. That's your new marketing spiel. I love it. Yeah. David Blaine is amazing though too. I mean, that guy is just like a freak. And when I talk about another dimension, like you guys think different than most people think. Well, we reverse engineer. So my work as an engineer, I don't, I could barely screw in a light bulb. My wife makes fun of me, but the way that I think, the way that we like, the way that I dissect my routines is I first think of the effect. So I think, what do I want you to think happened? Right? Here's what would be really cool to me.

So it'd be really cool to me if I could tell you to think of anyone, but I'm influencing where you're going to go with that person before you even know it. And I'm going to tell you that person's name and I'm going to- Don't make it an athlete. That's too obvious. Don't make it this. Exactly. Oh, so, okay. Narrowed down. Psychology 101. It's the same way that a salesperson, if they're very pushy, the used car salesman says, you get this car, get this car, your guard is up. But if you walk into a place and they kind of talk to you and they go, you know what? This might not be right for you. I'm going to, I think maybe your business is better elsewhere.

You're intrigued. This guy doesn't want my money. What do you mean? That's how you hook people in. There's so many little facets. There's interesting thing. Pickup artists. Did you ever see that book by, uh, by Neil Strauss?

Yeah. Neil Strauss, the game. He's a good friend of mine. So a lot of those guys start as magicians and a lot of what they talk about is very applicable to what I do literally, but not for picking up, you know, picking up like girls or anything. It's knowing how people think in their decision making, knowing how social dynamics work, how people think when they're one at a time or versus in a group dynamic.

And I, you know, I work on that all the time. That's so much of my show is knowing how I'm going to affect and influence somebody when they're amongst others. When somebody is with their peers, colleagues, or whether they're with their boss. All of those things play in when I do a show. Really? Oh, yeah. Huge. So when you see someone, when you go into a room or a restaurant and you're thinking like, when you see someone, do you think like, what's the trick?

Or I mean, what's the thing I want to do? Not the trick, but the thing that I do. Jason Bourne. You know Jason Bourne, the first movie? One of my favorite scenes ever is when they bring him into the restaurant and he tells you everything right now. Boom. I know what that guy is wearing. I know what that license plate is.

I know that. That, no BS, is exactly what I've trained my mind to do. In every room. If I walk into most rooms, like I had a show last night for 85 people in San Antonio, Texas, I knew every single person's name in that room. Every single person's first name. How? That's memory work. So I've worked on memory. So you met every person? Well, during the cocktail hour, I walk around, I say hello. You met everyone. Even if I don't meet them, they have name tags. I'm going to know everything about them. I know

who worked for the host company. I know who didn't. I know who's superior to who. And I've got the social dynamics on this. This guy's got a wedding band. You know, I can see that it's scuffed. I know this guy's been married probably 15, 20 years. I, everything like that is fodder for the show. Sure. Additional stuff feels like, wow, this guy's good.

That is the show. Yeah. So when you hear about cold reading and stuff that a lot of psychics and mediums do, I'm not here to tell you what's real and not real. I just know that so much of what I see a lot of psychics do, I could do exactly the same and I could do with no supernatural abilities. I can do it based on the here, the now, my five senses and what I'm able to do. Asking a couple of questions and yeah, just being aware. Leading questions, knowing where people's motivations are. I know that they want to hear a certain thing. So I'm going to bring them in that direction.

It's kind of like if I knew one thing about you. Let's say, Lewis, I learned one thing about you. Let's say I knew exactly that you were going to think about your brother who's, you know, a world known jazz violinist, number one in the world. What I might do is mention my siblings and go into that and then have a facet where I ask somebody else in here

to think of their sibling. And then I wait that moment and I kind of put the hook in. And I know that I've just said it where you're going to go, well, what does my brother do? And I know that information. Everything I've done is craft a scenario that's going to set in motion you asking me the question that I know the answer to. Everything you do is setting up what you already know. Not always, but I try to do multiple different. So I have, that would be, if I did that more than once, you would instantly catch on.

Right. So what I do is I mix methods in my show. I teach you how I did one thing slightly, and then I do the same thing in a totally different way. And you go, what the F? So that's the fun of it. If I did a show and you didn't understand anything,

you would get very bored and you'd get exasperated and annoyed with me. I like to spread breadcrumbs the whole show. I teach you little things, takeaways, and that's why you have fun. Yeah. So you're teaching people what you're doing as you're doing it. Absolutely. Like elements of it.

You're not trying to hide the magic of it. Oh, no. I will show people how to detect lies during the show. And so I'll do things, body language reads. I'm not teaching you to be a mentalist, but I'm giving away a little bit of the craft while I go because that's what hooks you in. You go, wow. And so as it gets,

every phase gets a little more impressive and then it do something even crazier. You go, well, if he did that, how did he do that one? It just makes it more fun. You need to build. Sure, sure. Does mentalism have to do more with emotional intelligence or observing people's behavior? So it has to do with both in the same way that a hypnotist, if you say to me, I don't want to be hypnotized, I don't want to be hypnotized, not going to be hypnotized. Then at the end of the day, you won't be hypnotized. Does that make sense? The power of suggestion. So, but a hypnotist, a very talented, good one can diffuse that person's underlying tension or why are they so nervous or what are they scared of or what's the problem? So in most scenarios,

I try to get to the root of will this person be good to work with or not? And when I'm doing a big show, I can quickly avoid people that I just don't think are going to be fun. Because some people, if let's say I walk up to you and you just had a really rough day or you got really bad news and I don't want that. I don't ever want to bring up, my show is not ever going to bring you bad news. It's a fun show. It's interactive. So I'll kind of shy away from that. But to answer the question, I think that it's more about observing people

than the emotional intelligence because certain people, I just can't read well. There's no way around it. Yeah, like, so I can do certain things with them, but we won't get to the next level with them. It's just that simple. There's no way around it. And then they'll come up to me in the show and be like, well, why didn't you do something more with me?

And I'm like, I'm sorry, I couldn't. And then they're like, oh, yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. It was a bit more opaque than others. So what's the perfect person to work with? Or who do you see? What's the type of person you see? You're like, yes, that's going to be a good person to work with. It runs the gamut of the extreme. So the people that are most believing and most into it are always the most fun. And also the ones that are at the opposite end that are the most skeptical because nothing's better than having somebody,

arms crossed, body language like this. And I seek them out in the show. I have a lot of funny bits that are just literally finding that person that's going to say, there's no way you're going to know this. And that's the best moment ever when you get that right.

Because that's when you get the explosive reactions on stage, on TV and the ones like the David Blaine things where you just know in today's day and age where everything can be faked, everything can be reshot, but authenticity can't be faked. Like when you see someone's real reaction, you know, it's not actors, you know, it's, you just can't fake it. It's very difficult to fake surprise and being blown away. People can notice when it's off. They can. Is there ever a, what do you call it? You don't call it a trick, but you call it something else. Trick, routine, effect, whatever you want. I don't mind trick. At the end of the day, I'm tricking you, but my goal isn't the trick. If you figure out how I did it, some of the time, it's more impressive than actually not knowing.

There's certain things I do where when you know, if you actually figure it out, somebody will walk up to me and go, you couldn't have possibly done this and this. I go, that's exactly what I did. He goes, there's no way. He goes, that's insane. So some of the things are even more impressive once you figure them out because they seem so ballsy. They go, you just did that in front of thousands of people. That could have gone wrong.

What if? I go, that just did that in front of thousands of people. That could have gone wrong. What if? And I go, that's exactly, that's the rush. Have you ever done a big performance where everything's gone wrong? Never everything. But a big trick maybe that you know you always do really well or that always goes well and then it's like this big aha

and then no, that wasn't what I was thinking about. Oh, 100%. Really? Oh yeah, for sure. How do you deal with that? So it depends where I'm dealing with it. So let's say when I do a stage show, like a corporate event

or somebody's hiring me for a private party, the one thing I have the luxury of is time, okay? So here's what I mean by that. Imagine a director's cut of a movie. Let's say you get to watch the three alternate endings. You didn't even know that could happen. You go, wow, I didn't even know. So in some situations,

the only reason you know what the ending is is if I frame the ending, okay? So something could go wrong that you don't even know went wrong. You don't know

because I didn't say it's not an A to B. It's not think of something and I'm going to guess it. So if I can reframe, just reframe something, then you don't even know it went wrong.

We just move in a different direction and pivot and suddenly that goes right and you think that other thing didn't even matter. Do you understand what I mean? It's all the way that I frame it. You could have ended it originally, but you realize that like, oh, this isn't the end, so I need to go somewhere else. Correct.

If you didn't know, the reason you expect it is, let's say, if I – You said this is the final thing and here we go. If I tell you in advance what's going to happen, if I say, you say this and and here's an envelope, and look what's inside, you're expecting it to be that. But what if it's not that? What if it's something from earlier, and we then go to... Do you understand? There's different facets. Sure. On TV, it's very different.

Yeah. How did you do that? I do a lot of live TV now. Yeah. I'm on the Today Show every month. I do quite... I was on ESPN. You see, I pretty much do usually... Knock on wood, I've been doing about two or three national TV appearances a month lately.

Congrats. Thank you. That's amazing. But you've got to have kind of the end because you only got like five minutes. Oh, you couldn't be more right. There's a clock ticking. And when something goes wrong, and a lot of the stuff I do is very risky. And a lot of other mentalists, like my friends, that will say to me, like, why are you doing that, man?

And I go, because I like to live on the edge, like big risk, big reward, where I will tell somebody, think of something. And I go, right now, change your mind to another thing. And it's like they know that there's just no safety net. If at that moment I don't push them and they don't go to what I want them to do, then there's no outs. Like I did this thing with Al Roker where I had him think of any celebrity. And I said, who's going to run for president in 2020? Make someone up right now. And he goes, George Clooney, right?

And then I said to him, I go, what if you change your mind right at this moment, picked anybody else? What if it was somebody else? He goes, I don't know. I go, just anyone. And he goes, Taylor Swift. And I took off my shirt

and I had a picture of Taylor Swift for 2020. And it is, I'll show you the clip. And they were so freaked out that they couldn't do the next segment. And they bumped the next person who I saw in the green room and she was so mad at me. I'm so sorry. And they kept me on and they just so freaked out that they couldn't do the next segment and they bumped the next person who I saw in the green room and she was so mad at me. I'm so sorry.

And they kept me on and they just kept saying like, how did you, Al was in it. I since know them because we've developed quite a relationship in the last year. But to this day,

he goes, that's the one. He goes, because in that moment, I could have said anything I wanted. And he goes, you were wearing a shirt. And then I told him the joke.

I go, I was wearing George Clooney underwear. Don't worry. But no, it's that kind of stuff is in the moment my heart is racing. What if he doesn't say it? But I'm super calm. That's like all the,

it's kind of like when I line up at the race day, all my nerves are gone once I start running. Once I get in the zone, if I am too nervous and I don't believe it, then it won't happen. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but the visualization, I'm sure, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, they did their races a thousand times in their mind before that gun

went off. So in my mind, every single scenario, I'm so focused in that moment when I'm on TV and I know that millions of people are watching that if I don't believe it's going to happen, it might not. It's not going to happen. I swear. So how long were you thinking about this routine with Al? How long were you thinking? It was just like a couple days before, weeks before? Yeah, probably.

I mean, most of them, you don't really have, it's not like one of those things where you tell you you're going to be on two months from now. They're like, on Monday, they're like, hey, we want you for Wednesday. Pretty much.

It's usually about a, let's call it seven to 10 day notice. So you think about it. Yeah. And are you thinking, this is what I want him to say? This is where I'm going to wear this shirt. It was very clear cut. And he's going to say Terry Swift. He better. And are you thinking, this is what I want him to say? This is where I'm going to wear this shirt. It was very clear cut.

And he's going to say Terry Swift. He better. And are you going over in your mind, like just visualizing it for the whole week? Like, this is what I'm going to say to set him up. This is where he's going to go. All the time. Every run, all the time, thinking about tweaking it, thinking about where will he think. I just know, imagine just one of those, I don't know what those, what are those charts

where you, this goes to that and this goes to that it's like a spider chart so I'm eliminating all of those branches by what I'm saying and the way I'm influencing him the way I'm tapping him and like I know right when he thought of that when I tapped him he just went away from that and oh it's just layers on layers it's like inception almost wow that's what I try to do so how did you set it up for him oh Oh, you'll watch it later. Oh my gosh, man. A video's worth a thousand words. Yeah.

Because if I tell you, people won't believe it when you see it. I'll believe it. Yeah. That's amazing, man. It mostly sounds too BS-y when I tell it. Now, is it more about you believing it in your mind and seeing it actually happen? Or is it more about what you say, your touch, what you don't say? All of it. All of it.

So you're thinking about every element of how to influence him to say Taylor Swift. Yes, 100%. Wow. This is fascinating, man. It's still, with all that due diligence

and all that work, I still can't get my wife to say the restaurant I want to go eat at. I'm like, where do you want to eat she's like anywhere you want and I'm like sushi she's like no

then I'll say like four more things and then she'll finally be like no I want this I'm like why didn't you tell me from the start even a mentalist has the same issues that all the rest of mortals have

so I married her I have no idea what she's thinking that's funny now have you ever done something on TV where it went wrong where you're like

you had the Taylor Swift shirt underneath or whatever the shirt is. It's never been that deep. They were like, Donald Trump. The hooks have been that deep. And you're like, now what? I mean, it will happen.

In very bad way. That will be my last TV appearance, right? But no, it will invariably, it will happen one day. But for the big ones, for the big reveals, like the stuff that's like the end point, it's never been that. Even then, to be honest, the thing with Al Roker, I didn't know he was going to say George Clooney first. I swear to you, I swear to you that that was, at that moment, that was as laser focused.

You tried to get him to say something else first? I wanted him to say Taylor Swift. The first time? Of course. Oh, and then you said switch it. Well, you didn't know that that would be the case. You didn't know that was part of it. Obviously, if I have the Swift. The first time. Of course. Oh, and then you said switch it. Well, you didn't know that that would be the case. You didn't know that was part of it. Obviously, if I have the shirt.

You needed to. So at that point, for me to say to him, I go, what if, I go in this very moment, look at me, change your mind, anyone else that you could ever think of in 2020, and he went to her. And to be honest. So you could do that maybe like two more times.

Yeah, I'm like, let's go, Hillary, who else? We were on the clock and he goes you have 45 seconds left when I was doing something for them it's an amazing moment and I had about 15 seconds to do it with him

and I ripped off the shirt almost like popped the buttons when I revealed it but if you if you watch it it was just at that moment it was just laser focus

where I like had to really like Vulcan mind meld look him right in the eye and say if you change your mind right now who would you change to and he goes like this

he's like exasperated he goes I don't know I go just anyone he goes Taylor Swift and it was just it made it all it must have felt so good just like

it's not even a rush like my stomach dropped everything so to answer your question it hasn't happened yet but even in the moments when it's been close I've been able to

find a way but it will one day it will one day wow I'm going to have to watch that one and see, um, let's bring in, let's bring in, uh, Matt, Matt, either one, either one, bring them both in. Bring them in real quick. Can I stand up or is that going to mess things up? Cause it's, uh, I'm a little more mobile. We got here. Okay. So for those who are just listening, you're going to want to go to the YouTube channel and watch this right now. But you'll understand what's going to happen. Matt

is here. Cesar is here next to me. And then Oze is across from Matt. So go ahead. So I got in here today, literally from the airport, disheveled, opened up my suitcase, and I just started throwing stuff out there. Imagine planting seeds. And I asked you to think not of work, but make it like a little more like vacation, something that was amazing. And I give you some time. Is that right? And you came up with something. Did you come up with something pretty good? Now I know you initially deliberated and you thought of one trip, a vacation, and you switched your mind, correct? I could tell. The first trip you were thinking of, you mentioned, was it a place you've been to more than once mind, correct? I could tell. The first trip you were thinking of, you mentioned, was it a place you've been to more than once? Okay. And I could tell just based on the hand motion, you were there, you weren't alone, you're with other people and it's somebody

close to the heart. So go back to the first thing you just thought of before you change your mind, somebody with you, really close to the heart, older, this is your dad? Were you thinking of your dad first? You were, right? You were just thinking of your dad. No, no, no. But this is crazy because then you changed your mind. Am I right? Now, certain people,

I told you group dynamics, Matt knows everybody in this room. So he doesn't feel like he's got to impress you. Some people when I tell them think of a vacation, they're like, oh crap, I got to really,

like if he said Florida, you're going to look at him and be like, that's the best you could do, buddy? So you probably didn't go with like Tahiti or something nuts. I think you probably did a place you've been to more than once, but it's just awesome. It's just got a place in your heart. Am I right about this? Now, you thought of your dad the first time. And so when you changed, you probably went to a female,

plus you're twiddling your thumbs. You look excited. She's not related to you, is she? She is not. Okay. Here's what you do. Think of the place. Think of where on the planet. So imagine like we spin the globe and I think this is, holy crap, this is somewhere in the US. Am I right? Is this domestic? Okay. Think.

It is somewhere in California. Am I right? Holy, oh man. But it's a good one. There's no way I can know this. The person with you, think of the first letter of her name. Think of the first, don't say, don't say. Listen to this noise, like a chop.

It's either a C or a K, am I right? Okay. How many years back? How many years ago was this trip? Okay, so you went there five years ago, but you've been there more than once. Would this have been like 2012? Am I doing the math right on that? Or like more earlier? 2000 what, give or take? Okay. Which one do you think? 2010. You'll check later. It was actually 2011, but whatever. No,

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. 2010 it is. Is there any way that I could have found this out? Is there some way, shape or form that Lewis, Sarah, anybody in this room could have told me or given this up? I want you guys to see this in my pocket. I'm reaching in here. I'm going to pull this out. It's stapled. We're at the school of greatness and I wasn't taking any chances.

Prediction. This thing is stapled shut. Can you tell us, Sawz, it's stapled everywhere. Did I miss a corner? Did I do anything? Was I stapling anything here? Rip it open. If it's a photo of you and her there six years ago, I'm kidding. A photo? Our camera person's going to faint. People have gotten restraining orders. Not a photo.

Just humor me. Where was this trip? Santa Barbara. Oh, beautiful place. Read out loud what I wrote folded and stapled shut for them. No way. I'm picking up a vacation to Santa Barbara that happened in 2010 and someone with you

named Kendra. Holy! Holy! Give him CPR. He's not breathing. He's starting to sweat. Yeah, that was it I even said five years and then

when you went back 2010 I went through every one of his albums on Facebook this morning you have no idea I have 38 other envelopes all over my body

his trip to London is chafing my right thigh right now. I'm kidding. I know. Tell me about it. Couldn't even do it with him. Wait, get Sarah in here. Where's Sarah?

Grab Sarah real quick. Go over there. All right, Sarah, we got you on mic. All right, Sarah, here we go. Here's what I want you to do. I want you,

please turn on your phone and take a step back so there's no way you think i can see your mirrors or anything and i want you to start scrolling through the names kind of like you've done a million times before and what you're seeking out here is this random person of the day somebody you didn't even know why you picked them initially am i right going through and i see you going up, going down, scouting, looking at this guy, this girl, finally stopping on one specific person. Did you find them? Now take your time with it. Is this the person from before? Yeah, yeah. You've got somebody right in mind. Did you even know why you picked this person initially or was it just totally

random? Totally random. Okay. And then put it against your stomach once you found them. This is the person that she picked before, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wait, when I say picked before, it's very important. The random. There's no, this is like, you didn't tell anybody. This is like somebody you just picked out of your phone for no rhyme or reason.

In fact, when you first looked, you didn't even look. You were just kind of scrolling at, put it against your body. Now, I can tell it's a guy. Am I right about that? Yes. Now, I don't know how your phone is laid out.

I've never seen your phone, touched your phone. You didn't write this or whisper this or anything. Like right now, the only way that you have this information is you looked in your own phone. Is that correct? I want to be sure. I watched this too. And I didn't tell you, go there, go there. You just went through your phone. Is it a first and last name or is it just the first? Okay. Think of how many letters are in the first name but don't count it with your mouth don't use your fingers tell me when you've counted it that was instant

lewis i call that an instant read if the name was like mitchell that's a struggle man m-i-t-c-h that's like yes but if the name is really quick like joe like a dan or a bob or a bill exactly right i think wait why did you smile? Because she laughed when you said one of those words. No. No? That was weird. She laughed at you and got very tense.

Oh. No BS. What? Did he just read your mind? Is the name actually Joe? What? Dude, bring it in. School of Great.

How did you do it? Shut up. The tension. I didn't even read her mind yet. I was just getting there. But she got very tight and tried to look not serious. And then she looked at you right after. Wait, wait.

Go to his last name. No way. No, don't say. Put it against your body. Dude, you got the gift, man. Put it against your body. Put it against your body, though. Joe, do you remember his last name?

Okay. Let's say that I dump Scrabble tiles right here on the table. And you take them and you spell his last name with the Scrabble tiles. And I won't make you count it because I see you looked a little confused. You went back and forth which means the name is long.

I want you to imagine you put all the tiles on the table and you know how the Z has a lot of points and the Q has a lot of points. I don't care which one you pick up

but I want you to reach down and pick up one of the letters out of the middle and I want you to come on over and imagine that they're laid out right here the Scrabble tiles. I want you to pick one up out of the middle. Please pick one up and hold it in

your hand. You have a tile in your hand, correct? Now I saw when you went down, did you see how she did this? She went like this. Question that's weird, but you didn't know which one to go with, which means you either changed your mind or weird question. Did the letter you pick up, is it in the name more than once? Okay. Okay. That was because you did that. It's a vowel. Am I right? Not a vowel. Okay. Okay. Let me see it. Think of that letter. It's kind of near the end of the name. Okay. Okay. Go back to the, okay. Put that down. I really thought it's not an, it's not an N, is it? It is an N. Am I right?

Yes. Hold the applause. Good idea here. Because I saw you waver from an N, and you were thinking of an E. And you know what? I know you were about to do it, and I don't know if I'm spelling this right. Everyone always gets mad. It's not a spelling bee.

It's a mind reading. Can you close your eyes for us, please? Close your eyes. Uh-huh. And I feel like, and do we have a, are we zoomed in on that? Yeah? We got a shot? Open your eyes. I feel like and do we have a are we zoomed in on that yeah we got a shot

open your eyes she didn't see it's like Italian right Joe what Gianetto Joe Gianetto what that's crazy

wow oh my gosh that's crazy. Wow. Weirdest part, she barely remembers who he is and he's going to text her in three days. She's going to freak out. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. She's like, do you know Joe? Wow. Joe's going to hear this and he's going to be like, come on, tweet me back. That's crazy. Where do you go from there, huh? Lewis is like, all right, let's get back to the podcast.

How did you do all that crap? All right. That's what we did at the end. Crazy, man. I tend to ruin productivity in workplaces after this. Do you guys have any questions? Yes. Do you have a question?

Do you have a question? How much did I sell my soul for? Wow. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Amazing, man. Ba-boom. It's mind-blowing.

Now, a lot of that, the name thing, that's just crazy. But a lot of that is also persuasion, right? A lot of it is also tells and persuasion. Some of it. Oh, yeah, the part with the letters. I mean, she could have thought of anyone. I know she changed right at the end, and I knew the vowel. People are indecisive sometimes, right?

Yeah, yeah. Wow, man. This is crazy. What's the one effect that you've always wanted to learn how to do but you've never been able to do yet? So there's one thing that I really want to do, which is publicity stunts. So like David Blaine did amazing things where, I mean, things everybody knows about.

Like stood on a pole. Exactly. Stood on a pole for like 48 hours. Didn't eat for 40 days. 40 days, didn't eat. That's what they said. Yeah, he was in a glass box in London, um, that they kind of, you know, had hanging and he's just done a lot of these stunts, like being buried alive. And so those types of stunts, I've always wanted to do

one. I haven't fully figured out yet, but I want to do a minor thing. Not so much. So those stunts, there's two elements that will capture attention, right? The first one is danger, right? So either you're starving yourself or you're putting yourself, you're shooting a bullet or something where could this go wrong? You know, kind of that same feeling, that mentality when you're at a racetrack where you don't want anyone to get hurt, but you're like, this has that danger element, right? So the other one is if I'm not doing something dangerous, which is things like a Russian roulette. Like in a lot of shows, there's a famous trick that mentalists do where they'll put a knife or a spear under a paper bag and famous trick that mentalists do where they'll put a knife

or a spear under a paper bag and they'll get blindfolded. And they'll tell one person nowhere it is and he can feel where that person's tension is and he'll smack every single bag except that one. David's done that too, right? I've seen him. I mean, everyone. It's a famous trick. It's scary. I know a guy who went right through his hands, right on video, one of my good friends in Israel, knife went right through. And this is your livelihood we're talking about. So there's real elements of danger, but that so many people have done. So if you either do danger or you do something that's endurance, like what if I literally just, you know, could walk up to every single person who walked up to me and read their mind with something simple.

Like if we played rock, paper, scissors, or we flipped a coin. And you do this with a thousand people in a row. And if I lose, I'm going to pay you a million dollars. Wow. So that would be the next level where you don't introduce an element of danger, but you introduce an element of, wow, what if I could?

So that's the only way a real publicity stunt could work with mentalism. Unless you want, I don't personally like the danger because what do you want to happen? People actually want the bloodthirstiness where you actually want it. Otherwise at the end, it's a bit of a letdown. You feel relieved they didn't get hurt, but part of you wants to see it. It's just natural. It's the gladiator. It's Roman Coliseum. So I don't know if I want to kind of incentivize people to

want to see me get hurt. Some people do, don't get me wrong. Some people, when they hate me, like at the end of the show, they're like, yeah, I want to see this guy get stabbed. But more of how many people's minds could I read at once? Because it gets exponentially more difficult. One-on-one, the show is easier for what I do. But you suddenly incorporate 10 people, 15, 20. It's not 10 times as hard. It gets to be 1,000, 10,000.

So you have to watch everybody at once. And that's where it would be exciting for me and for everyone else. Is that Lior? Didn't he do something like that on TV? Yes. Like a mass hypnosis effect. Where everyone wrote down a name

and then they flipped it over? What was that? A drawing. A drawing. A star. So that was very cool. So yeah, it's something he worked on for a while. A star is probably easier,

a symbol is probably easier than a name, I would think. Oh, 100%. So everyone can just, you know, if you influence everyone's minds to go into a star, I'm assuming is what you did, right? That's crazy, but still, in the whole audience.

It was like everyone had drawn a star, and then one person in the corner had drawn a penis. It was hysterical. You get 250 people on TV, someone's drawing a dick. Yeah, it's, you know. Wow. PG-13. But wasn't he like, okay, don't make it like something

like a tree or like this or like that. Of course, yes, yes, yes. Don't you say, you're eliminating things, right? Yep. I'm like, okay, what's the next thing? Yeah, still, that's impressive. That's very impressive. That's a power of suggestion.

Yeah. Unbelievable, man. What's the thing that you've learned from the power of suggestion in human dynamics in terms of sales? Sales? And how you sell something. So if there's an entrepreneur listening or watching, what could we take away that's more about persuasion or about sales or about negotiation? Oh my goodness. I mean, what I do is so rooted in the skills of negotiation. What's a few, maybe one or two

things that everyone should be doing in a negotiation? So these aren't things that I've invented, mind you. These are things that I use and that as a mentalist, I'm just a little more keenly aware of when people are going to react based on their body language. But that expression of he or she who talks first loses in a negotiation is so true. People are scared to pause, to just let air settle. So for example, I almost never, when I used to do negotiations, would ever mention price. Just never talk about money. There was never, I would tell you everything about it and wait for you to ask about it. You know, everything about it until there, because otherwise you make that situation awkward. There's something to be said for allowing people to simmer, to get excited about something, to build it up. And say how much. Exactly. Before you go to how much. And

then with the how much question, as soon as you list something, now this is obviously more rooted in a service versus if you're selling a product or a widget or something else, then obviously negotiations don't really matter. So many things are the art of the deal, right? I mean, if it's renting an apartment, if it's buying a car, if it's all these different things where there's different levels of power as to who wants something more than the other and finding that balance, I mean, it's not going to be applicable to everyone's business. But once you're done speaking

and you've laid something out, do not speak again. If you start backtracking, if you say, oh, it's $2,000 and then they just let it hang and you let them go, well, what do you think? Right there is the sign of weakness.

Allow that other person to digest it. And honestly, I've let 5, 10, 15 seconds go by and that's an eternity. Forever. When you say the price or when you don't say the price? It's just changed now because I have somebody. But when I was doing it, I would give a price, and then I let that sit. That's it.

At that point, let them say what they want to say, whether it works, whether it doesn't work, where they want to go with it. And then you move from there. Uh, giving options is also a great thing. If you were to walk into a store and you don't really know what you're going to pay, there's a lot of things in this world that you don't know what you're going to pay until you get married. You probably don't know what a DJ or a wedding photographer, anything's these things cost, right? So if you give out packages, like here's silver, here's gold and here's platinum, people always don't want the cheapest option. They want to feel like they got a deal, but on something that's better. There's always that feeling of you want to feel like you got a deal. So if you can build that into the cake, that's always great.

That's always great. But if you negotiate on things, you're always going to negotiate. So there's something risky to be said where if you're always negotiable, people will know that and they'll always know that they can negotiate you down. So you need to decide where you want to be with that. What's the skill you've yet to master that needs to take your game to another level? There's persuasion, human dynamics, there's suggestion, there's memory, there's all these different things you've mastered to a certain level. But what's missing for you? Something I'm trying to always work on more and more is listening, is honestly finding mentors and listening to them.

So whether that is people that are in my field that are better or that have things to offer me or even if they're not, even if I don't think – I shouldn't have said better to be honest. I can learn things from others no matter where they are because there's people, there's things they'll know. And if you become closed off to that and think, oh, this person doesn't perform as much as me, they don't make as much money. You can start to not take other people's opinions and get too full of yourself. I meet so many interesting people. It's probably the best part of my job that are incredibly successful, incredibly motivated people at kind of the top of their fields, like billionaires at hedge funds, CEOs of corporations, people that have mastered the game of what they do. And I try to deflect conversations as often as possible because as soon as I do a trick, people are like, wow, that's crazy. Do more. And I want to learn from them. So I try to

ask poignant questions about them that are going to give me takeaways. The moment you think you know it all, you're dead in the water. You are dead in the water. Like I like to learn from others. Why did you do this? How did you do this? Even if I don't know why or what it will apply to my life now, I try to learn that for the future. So I'm not, I don't do it often enough. I really, really make an effort to listen to others. And that's how I learn names. When you asked me the best trick is how do you learn all those people's names? Most people, when they actually hear a name, they're not listening. It goes right out.

Well, you're thinking about what you're going to say, or you're in motion, or you do something. Or if you didn't really catch it, stop, pause, shake their hand again and say, I'm so sorry, I missed that. What was your name? Or just say, oh, and then you'll give a compliment. Oh, Louis, I love your shirt, man.

That looks really great, Louis. And you say it twice, and it gets anchored. And it'll get anchored in your short term, and it'll be anchored probably for the next 25, 30 minutes and you relate something to them. So there's just tricks to the trade that aren't anything special. But the biggest one is most people don't listen when they hear a name. They're doing something, they're thinking something. And so they're not open to really remembering it. Imagine if you had just met your idol, right? If you had just met Paul McCartney and you're a Beatles fan, you're going to digest every single word he says. You're going to be taking it in like it's a moment in your life that you will never forget. It'll be imprinted.

So you're probably not going to be that much when you meet a new person, but if you can get 10% of that, of that focus, when you see them, look them in the eye, repeat their name, give a compliment, you will know their name for the next half hour. Yeah. Wow. What's the dream for you then moving forward? You've been on America's Got Talent, you're doing the biggest shows in the world, the biggest stages, you're on the press all the time. Where do you want to go? Man, I want to keep it going. I would love, I think right now it's such a changing media landscape where people can do stuff online and get huge. And there's so many different facets.

But TV is still, at this moment in time, the biggest way that everybody can see it. You can create kind of a persona, a legend, captivate the public. So honestly, a TV show would probably be where if you told me where do I see 12 months from now, a killer TV show or a TV special where I can really debut my type of mentalism? And that's hard work, man. It's tough. It's tough because, like I said, luck, timing, everything. Would it be kind of a street performance show or would it be more of like a – I think that there would be some element of just performance where you would watch it and go, wow, that was crazy.

But I think that what is so cool about mentalism that's different than just magic is the takeaways, is the things you could watch and learn from and see and dissect. And if you go home and suddenly know some of these body language things, that's really cool and that's really fun. And you do it in a way that makes people feel good. Yeah, of course. Maybe I wouldn't say I'm going to be teaching. It's not a bringing

but like that type of thing where people learn more about the mind in a freaky way I like that yeah so when's it gonna happen I'm trying to make

that dream a reality I wish I knew what's the date it's gonna be on air for now I'm just keeping the hustle alive going into meetings doing what I can do

doing shows and having fun all around the country all around the globe that's amazing man what's missing in your life? What's missing right now, my son and my wife, they're traveling too. So I haven't seen them in like 12 days. It's killing me. I got a six month old. He is the apple of my eye. I cannot, I love this kid so much. Fatherhood was a game changer.

Really? Yeah. It's like incredible. How does it make you think about your career differently? Well, it just makes me think of, I value my time in a way that I didn't used to. It used to be just, I want to make money and I didn't really come from money. So now the fact that like I'm able to earn it, it's security, but it's at a stage in my life where I realized that that money I'm making, I can't buy the time that I'm missing back. You know what I mean?

Like I can't, these 12 days when he's like this old and he's this funny and he's this, you can't get that back. So I really am much more particular about things I do. And if I don't enjoy them and if they're not worth it to me and if they're not a value,

and the same for races, I'll put a race ahead of making money or doing a show or doing something important because I know that 10 years from now, I'm never going to look back and be like, I wish I would have done that show and made that amount of money. I just, even if I'm broke, that's not going to be the moment. I can't give you a value to crossing that finish line for Spartathlon. I can't give you a value.

It's like certain times when I'm with my kid and he's so funny and we just have like a crazy moment. You're going to remember that. It's like, it's, yeah, it's a little bit, a little bit cheesy, but it really is worth more than money. Some of those things. And it's taken me a long time to learn that. Wow. That's cool, man. And how old are you now? 34. Me too.

Yeah. When was your birthday? 82. 82. I'm 83. So you'll be 35 soon, huh? Yup. What's the month? Getting up there. July. July. Coming up, man. Wow. That's awesome. It's amazing what you've created.

Thank you. A couple of final questions, man. Wow. That's awesome. It's amazing what you've created. Thank you. A couple final questions for you. Yeah. It's called The Three Truths. And if this is your last day on earth and you only have three things to share with the world, three lessons, three things you know to be true from everything you've learned about fatherhood, life, relationships, mentalism, anything, what would you say are your three final truths? One is my ultra running mantra, which I didn't make up, but it can't always get worse.

So when I'm, it will eventually get better no matter what, no matter what you're doing, no matter, I mean, if you're sick, if you're anything, if you're unemployed, if somebody's close to you, a heartbreak, anything like that, when you're in the lowest of lows, you will get out of it. Like it will at some point improve. And I've just experienced that in a running where I'm, my legs aren't working. I'm on the ground. I'm, you know, miserable. I'm just despondent. I'm broken, like a broken person. I've never experienced as much as during like a really awful one of these races. I have to have that mindset where if I think this is it,

I'm going to quit. And I tell myself, this will get better. It's kind of like if you just force yourself to smile at certain points, even though you feel like crap, just try it. Just smile for the next five minutes. You will somehow feel better. It's a physiological thing. It's the same way that, you know, you yawn, somebody else yawns in the room. It's a physiological thing. So that's honestly, number one is whenever i feel like crap and i just i'm down and i'm moody or anything you know you can try to be thankful but in my mind the one that really works for me is just saying it's going to get better whatever i'm doing you know stopping a

baby this will get better focus on that kernel of like where it will get better and it always does wow okay so that's that's one. Yep, number two. Number two, a truth of my own or truth that I've learned from others? Either one. These would be your final three things you'd share with the world. Final three things I would share with the world.

Wow. The lessons. So tough, huh? That's number one. Number two, man, I gotta say it, happy wife, happy life. That one is man, I got to say it. Happy wife, happy life. That one is definitely up there.

She makes my life great. I am very lucky, man. I found an incredible woman and that's very true. So that, that's one of them that I focus on quite a bit. There you go. That's a good one.

The third one, third one, third one, third one, third one. And I, I think, I think like friendships and family, those are the people that are going to be there for you in the long haul. And those things you really need to nurture.

And, uh, everyone's family is nuts. My family's pretty crazy. And I just recently like going through some stuff here and there, and I'm really trying to fix things up quite a bit. And I try to always remember that, that like, if these are the people that wiped your butt when you were born and these are the people that were with you and you did stupid stuff and like, you can't put a value on that. So I really like, I missed a buddy's birthday. I got to make it up to him. And I really try to take time, even when I'm busy, even when a lot's going on in my life, to put those people forward and listen to them, talk to them, see what's going on and maintain relationships. I always try to call people on the phone.

And now, especially when it's just a texting society, you lose a lot of that. You lose a lot of that. And I'm traveling so much with work. I might be on the road two, three weeks out of a month that I really try to make a point of, I don't know, staying in touch. Cause that those are the people that in the end are going to mean everything. Especially when you're in entertainment, things can be fickle. Suddenly famous, you're're this you're that things happen like that's where i get grounded that's the people that my buddy will still bust my butt i could go do a tv show and then he just comes back and bust my balls and makes fun of me and that's what you need you need like that kind

of thing to you know i don't i yeah it's just that those are the people yeah that's what matters at the end of the day i like it yeah because bigger you get, you want to make sure you always stay grounded. I'm not that big. But even no matter how big I ever got, I assure you, I would still get put into my place by my wife, my mom, my sisters. That's not going to change. Yeah, right. I love it. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Oze, for your incredible gift to move people.

Thank you. To have people shock, awe, wonder. And again, to think differently than they normally don't think. Right. In a society where we're constantly texting and on the phone and not experiencing these emotions. You bring it out of so many people. And you did it when I saw you on the show. You've done it today. And I just want to acknowledge you for your incredible gifts, man.

It's inspiring to see. Thank you so much. You see. Thank you so much. You too. Thank you very much. Before I ask the final question, where can we go to connect with you? What's your site? Do you have anything we can learn more about online?

So I perform all over. It's kind of like I can't plug one thing because that thing will happen and there will be 10 more. Is there tour dates on your site? Yeah, so everything is on my site and then the social like if you know twitter instagram all that i'm at o's the mentalist and o's looks like oz like wizard of oz so it's oz the mentalist okay and that's everything i mean you can go to my website too but i don't even know if people go to websites

anymore right it's ozperlman.com o-z-p-e-a-r-l-m-A-N.com. And I do events all over the place, big and small. I end up doing a lot of NPO charity work, like fundraisers that I do quite a bit. So those tend to be ticketed and you can kind of go see those. And then occasionally I tour as well. So it's one of those shows where I say this as humble as I can. You really have to see it to believe it because I'm the biggest skeptic in the world.

I don't believe any of this crap. So that's how I got into it. I see them and I'm like, I don't buy it. I got it. So I'm the one who wants to dissect and learn it. And when you see it, I never embarrass people. You're never put on the spot. It's, this isn't like clucking like a chicken. It's a wholesome interactive experience where you simply don't believe what I can figure out about you and how I can figure out your body language and your tells and just in an entertaining way that connects people. You walk out with somebody next to you and you have a joint memory that you're going to talk about forever. And that's a lot of what I do at companies is I go in there and it's kind of like a social lubricant. People that don't know each other leave because, you know, if you go skydiving,

if you do walk on fire, you know, across fire fire with Tony Robbins like if you do some of these things that are harrowing and different and unique it bonds you to somebody else and that's what I try to do I try to create memories that you're going to remember for years to come more than fool you that's what I want I want you to walk out of there laughing and remembering and coming back to me five years later and be like how the hell did you know my dog's name from when I was six? That's what I want. And they're not mad at me. They just love that moment that they had at that, like how? Amazing. Yeah. Amazing.

Well, make sure you guys go check them out on social media at Oz the Mentalist. Yep. On all social media. OzPearlman.com. Boom. Go to check out your tours, everything else you're doing. It's amazing.

Final question is, what's your definition of greatness? Definition of greatness. you're doing. It's amazing. Um, final question is what's your definition of greatness? Definition of greatness. I think my definition of greatness has got to be achieving more than you thought was possible. So if you're just status quoing it and you're living comfortable, that's great, but that's not greatness. Greatness is something that you thought you could never do. And I want that for the rest of my life. I hope I can do that until my dying breath. There's something, and that's what racing has been for me.

That's what family has been for me. That's what everything I do is I want something that's just out of my grasp, that I don't know if I can do. And that's the reason when you asked me why I did that thing with Al Roker, because I didn't know if it would really work. I hoped it would work.

I sure as hell thought the odds were in my favor, but I didn't know. And so if I didn't do it, then I wouldn't be able to live with myself. So I want something that I haven't yet done. It's kind of like, I mean, I'm not into mountain climbing, but if I did one mountain, I think the next one I'd want to do is Everest. Like I constantly want something that's in my calendar, something that I can look forward to. And no matter what that is, it's like if I'm like when I'm feeling sick, I want to get healthy. When I'm eating like crap, I want to eat better.

Just something, the next level. So greatness is taking it to the next level, whatever that could be for you. If you're a couch potato doing nothing and you want to go walk a mile

and you don't believe it, that's greatness. You need to strive for something you didn't think was possible and make it happen. That was promo. Thank you so much.

Thank you. It's awesome. Thanks. Boom sh awesome. Thanks. Boom shakalaka. There you guys have it. I hope you enjoyed this one. Again, if you did, make sure to share this out with your friends. LewisHowes.com slash 476.

Connect with O's on social media. Tag me at LewisHowes and let me know what you thought. We all have the power to achieve greatness in our lives. It may not happen overnight. In fact, it's highly unlikely that anything great happens quickly. But one day at a time, if you continue to give your best, stay clear on your vision and surround yourself with a community of inspiring people that lift you up and that support your

dream. It is all possible. I love you very much and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.