The School of Greatness - 479 Memory Champion Nelson Dellis on Training Your Brain to Do the Impossible

Episode Date: May 3, 2017

"Train your brain everyday." - Nelson Dellis If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/479

This is episode number 479 with four-time USA memory champion Nelson Delis Welcome to the school of greatness My name is Lewis Howes a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week We bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome to the School of Greatness podcast, everyone. I hope you're having a great day and I hope this is going to make your day and life even better because

we are in the house with Nelson Delis, who is a four-time USA Memory Champion and one of the leading memory experts in the world. He's traveled around the world as a competitive memory athlete, memory consultant, and highly sought-after keynote speaker. He's the founder and CEO of Climb for Memory, a nonprofit charity that aims to raise awareness and funds for Alzheimer's disease research through mountain climbs all over the world.

He is also the co-founder of the Memory League, memory training app, and the co-founder director of Memory League Championships, the only digital format, head-to-head style memory competition. That's right. All things memory. Nelson has been featured in the Today Show, Fox and Friends, the Katie Couric Show, CNN.com, ABC, Dr. Oz, Science Channel, Nat Geo, Superbrain China, National Geographic Magazine, and many other outlets. He is one of the top guys. He's kind

of like Jim Quick, where he just can teach and memorize so many things at the same time. And what we cover today are how to memorize names at a networking event when you feel like you're horrible at names. I know that's pretty much like 90% of people listening. Why memory is a lost art. Also, how Nelson turned his memory work into a business. And again, if you guys don't think memory work into a business. And again, if you guys don't think you can run a business or be successful around your passion and making money full-time, then this is another great example. Nelson did this around just memory,

something he was passionate about. Again, no excuses here. Also, a simple way to train your brain every single day to be stronger. During this interview, I actually have Nelson memorize 50 numbers just by saying them out loud and having them repeat back to me. So pretty cool to see how he does it actually live. And also, Nelson didn't have a powerful memory.

He wasn't great at memory. He was actually pretty average. And he talks about how anyone can have a super human memory the way he trained himself to have it just as well. Super pumped for this one and want to give a shout out to our iTunes review of the week. This is from Lee Booza, who said, I'm usually the guy who's too lazy to leave reviews, but I had to leave one for this podcast. This podcast has been a huge blessing for me this year, helping me stay focused on my goals and getting better each day. I first heard of Lewis Howes on the Model Health Show, another

great podcast. And after hearing his background and how genuinely he seeks to impact people's lives for the better, I quickly became a fan. He gives helpful perspectives in very empowering and practical ways. And the guests he features take things to a whole new level. The show goes beyond stereotypical feel good motivation. And I'm looking forward to getting the school of greatness book sometime in the future. So many episodes to choose from, and they are all quality content. Well,

Lee Booza, thank you for being the iTunes review of the week and make sure to go get the book right now. Don't wait in the future. Get it right now. Go to lewishouse.com slash book and be one of the people who are diving in and getting great results

from the practical tips in the book also. All right, get ready to enhance your memory, to memorize anyone's name, to never forget a phone number again, to optimize your brain for human performance like never before. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, human performance like never before. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Nelson Delis. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast.

We have Nelson Delis in the house. Good to see you, man. How are you doing? Good to see you. I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm excited about this because you are a memory champion, actually a four-time U.S. memory champion.

That's right. And one of the leading memory experts in the world you travel around as a competitive athlete do you call a competitive athlete or yeah like a memory athlete memory athletes depends on what you consider not a mathlete no memory athlete mem athlete yeah mathlete and how many competitions are there like memory competitions yeah there's a few. There's the U.S. National Championship, which is the thing I've won. There's like a world championship.

Have you won that? No. I've competed in a few times. It's a whole other – It's a different type of – Yeah, it's intense. The events are a bit different. And it's been around for longer, and more international people have competed in that and prepared for it for longer.

So it's just like, yeah. What is that one like? I mean, what's the criteria to win? Is it the same thing every year? Is it a different prompt? It's the same thing every year. It's 10 events, so it's like a decathlon. And it's just your total score

over the points you've racked over the 10 disciplines. What were some of the events? So some are the same as the US one, like memorizing a deck of cards as fast as possible. They give you a deck there and you have to memorize it. As quickly as possible. A five minute, you have five minutes to memorize

as many digits as possible. And at the Worlds, they have like an hour where you get to memorize digits, an hour where you get to memorize cards, names of faces, words, random blobs,bs historic dates stuff like that serious whoa how many days is it three three days so you're you're pretty spent by the end of it yeah it's like eight hours a day memorizing wow man sounds probably like a nightmare for a lot of people but it's fun that's a lot man yeah now um what was the

what are some of the records that you have because don't you have some memory records too i do uh and i've i've broken some lost some gained them back um but right now i currently have the one for memorizing names and the most names in 15 minutes which is uh 201 names now people give you the name they they give you the name up front or there's a list of names. It's basically a packet of headshots of random people we've never seen, and with first and last name. People you don't know, not celebrities. No, right.

Yeah, because then it makes it maybe easier to memorize if you recognize someone. But they're all random, and you get 15 minutes to study it, and then you get to write in the names as many of them as you can in that uh in the recall 15 minutes 15 to memorize and then 20 to write out as much as you can how long did it take you to write it out yeah i do pretty fast i mean i gotta get it out as fast as possible because there's like a deterioration of what you recall after you see it, you know? So I probably write out most of it in five, 10 minutes and then spend the rest trying to remember some that slipped my mind, you know? That's crazy, man.

How many did you do? 201. 201. Yeah. Do you remember any of those? Well, yeah. Like years ago or something. No, I mean, I know the kind of names they ask.

I'm sure there was like a Bob and a Steve. But that's another difference in the world in the U.S. is that the U.S. one is like American names, which what is an American name? But it's a lot easier than the world ones, which are international. You have to spell it too? Yeah.

You have to get every spelling right for all of them. Yeah, that's the thing. So most of the mistakes I make are like I put an E instead of an A. Like it was Lindsay with an E instead of Lindsay with an A. Well, how many did you remember without getting this perfect spelling? Yeah, I mean – 230 or something, 210. Yeah, so they give right now 234 names.

That's the max. And I look at all of them, which I don't know if anybody else does. And I'd say maybe I get most of them. It's just like 20 of them or something. It's crazy. So for someone who's going to a networking event, a lot of my listeners are entrepreneurs. Of course.

They're looking to build relationships. Relationships are the most valuable asset and currency for them. Totally. For most entrepreneurs. Yeah. And a lot of people come to me and say, you know, I'm horrible with names. I'm sure you get this all the time. So if you wanted to remember just 10 people at an event, how do you go about just the starting process?

If you're basics, if you're the worst memory, how does someone go about that? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, that is the number one thing I get asked all the time. And I think it is probably the most useful skill to have in terms of memory, like most applicable to daily life. Right. Because it's so important. Just simple things, remembering someone's name can make a world of difference in a relationship. Yes.

So the first thing I tell people is if you're going to an event, say it's a networking event, and you want to memorize 10 people's name, is that you tell yourself that you're going to memorize 10 people's names. That's like the very first step. Prep yourself. Yeah. Just like make it a goal of yours, right? Because I think a lot of people think they have a bad memory for names and they'll go into that situation thinking that and then, you know know they're not going to bother or they're going to be like i i just can't do it but everyone can so i'd like to preface uh the show i guess by saying that i didn't have this skill you know before i started something i developed with practice and when i first started memorizing names i was just as good as anybody else you know so the first thing is to have that intent and I often tell people in their heads, just mentally tell yourself, I want to remember this person's name as you approach them.

Just kind of repeat that because it primes you to focus in on that. I think in this day and age, it's hard to focus on something, especially at an event where there's noises, people moving in and out, and you're trying to remember who you need to talk to or what you're going to say. If you can just focus on that, that's kind of the first step. I'm going to remember this person's name. Yeah. Yeah. Say it in your head. Yeah. Yeah. Repeat it. And then, so the next thing is I usually tell people,

choose a feature. So something about the person's face or their mannerism, something that you've noticed instantly. Nothing you have to like study or figure out, just very lightly, easy, what pops out at you. We all do that. I mean, we look at people and we kind of silently judge. Yeah, they're short, they're tall, they're whatever. Yeah, their hairdo's funny, whatever. So you choose that feature and then the interaction happens. You say your name, I say mine, we shake hands.

And then you come up with a picture for the name. So that can be difficult, especially when you're trying to maintain a conversation. But as you practice, you get better at this. And the idea is to go for something that it reminds you of. So like when I say Nelson, what do you think of? Mandela. Okay. Yeah, perfect.

So usually people will say Nelson Mandela, Nelson from the Simpsons, or maybe Admiral Nelson, or like a full Nelson. Right, right. Just a few different things. But Nelson Mandela is one of the top ones. So you would picture him, right? You can visualize him. Yes. And it doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with who I am.

Just you need a picture for the name. And then once you have that picture, you kind of mash it together with my feature that you chose and you make a little narrative, little story or you come up with a reason why those things would be related okay and that process of thinking of that relation will help you remember next time you see me you're going to see that feature and then you're going to remember that ridiculous association you made to that picture sure nelson mandela and then you'll be like okay that's nelson got it yeah what would you do for me so Lewis I have another memory friend named

Lewis and he's actually shaved bald he's a young kid and so I would just picture as simple as imagine you having a bald head which there you go yeah so sometimes you can choose a specific feature or sometimes you can kind of

interact a feature from the thing that it reminds you of to something that you don't have. Just make something that's so opposite or bizarre. Got it. And when you wake up in the morning, what is the thing you think about? Are you thinking of memory or how you're going to remember names, numbers, faces? What goes through your mind on a daily basis? And when you're also just driving over here, are you looking at the street signs and remembering landmarks?

How does your brain think? Yeah, so it's not so much that I'm memorizing stuff automatically. I still have to try to do that. But what does happen is I do look at things and convert them to pictures. So when I do see billboards or license plates, I do tend to just convert them to the

pictures that they represent because i've studied these systems and um i just enjoy being in that world where things are kind of colorful and weird and try to make associations and stuff not that i'm trying to memorize but just you know it's like a game yeah exactly yeah so you look at license plates you can remember them remember them pretty easily too if i wanted to yeah yeah but like i said it's not like i drove over here and i was just like scanning 20 of them yeah yeah i don't want to do that sure sure yeah what's the hardest thing to remember for you the hardest thing for me is like text um like you know memorizing a poem or a script or something where there's lots of little filler words and you have to pay attention to the tenses

and stuff like that. That's one of the events at the US Championship is how to remember a poem. It's previously unpublished and it's usually very abstract about balloons and springtime and stuff. But you got to remember all the spelling all the capitalizations you spell it out yeah gosh this is challenging yeah yeah

i'm horrible spelling so i would lose at every memory test there is i i get in trouble with that too i'm a decent speller but sometimes like i'm remembering like a list of words and you have to write them out and i'm like how do you spell you know it's the most simplest word and i just fight back and forth is it two c's or one c's you know but yeah yeah okay so memorizing full poems or paragraphs or something like that is challenging yeah so stuff where it's like a good actor i don't know it's funny because i've had my wife shaking her head now uh um it's funny because i've had – my wife is shaking her head now. It's funny because I've had to memorize scripts for little things I've done. TV spots, whatever.

Yeah. And I think the first time I did it, I was like, yeah, I can memorize this at night. Got this. No worries. And I did, right? I did it like I did the poetry and I could say all the words perfectly. But I realized the next day when I was trying to act is that I still have to act, access that information and to do it properly on, on camera.

I have to like be super smooth, like fluid and like, yeah, which is a different thing, right? I can have it memorized, but does it mean I can recite it? Like looked like a normal human. Exactly.

Yeah. Like a robot. Yeah, exactly. Like if I memorize a really long number and I recited it back to you, I'd be like, you know, five,

eight, uh, you know, rather than like 5, 8, 6, 8. You're accessing it in your mind. It doesn't mean I'm getting it wrong, but it's not like smooth. Just put a teleprompter up there, right? That's what they ended up doing, which was ridiculous. But it's funny. It ended up having to happen. Sure.

And before we came on here, you were talking about, you know, we said Apollo Ono was one of the previous guests I had on here. And you said, oh, he's like a number of mine or something. So what does that even mean? Right. So for numbers and cards and stuff, stuff where you have, you know what you're going to get, right? So for numbers, you know that you're going to see digits between zero and nine. No other digits, right? But obviously there'll be longer sequences of them.

And cards, 52 cards names and poetry and words and stuff can pull from almost unlimited data sets so there's more improvisation there so with the numbers and cards we have systems that we create where for example i have a three digit system where every three digit number is a person or a preset image so that when i see that three digit image a three digit number i already have a so 113 113 is ace ventura ace ventura yeah and there's some method to it why i have that assigned um and like 195 is apollo ono um you know i had all i started with a two digit system and 95 happened to be so the system i had i'm trying to remember it's so automatic now nine was an n and five was an e

so i had ne the initials and that to me made me think of new england patriots so 95 is tom brady the original 95 sure and then when i expanded it i said okay 095 will be the original 95. Sure. And then when I expanded it, I said, okay, 095 will be the original guy that I had for my two digit system, Tom Brady. And then all the others, 195, 295, 395, up to 995 will be like popular athletes. Got it. Ideally Olympic athletes. Wow. Yeah.

So you have a thousand names. A thousand names. Yeah. It's not so much the names, it's just I see the picture of the person. With the number, you see the image of the person. Exactly. And you know their name, so you're just

reciting a name. That's the important part, is to come up with people that I know. I don't even know a thousand names, I don't think. You'd be surprised with all your guests and athletes that you've played with and that's friends and family yeah yeah wow but it works and uh it helps you like crunch numbers big numbers into smaller pictures and so that works when someone's like okay give me

50 numbers and on stage i've seen a friend uh do this jim quick i don't know if you know oh yes yeah and he i think he did like 100 numbers. Yeah, yeah. And someone was like writing on the back of the chalkboard or whatever so you could see them. That's right. And he just recited them all back to us like double-digit numbers. It was like mind-blowing. Yeah, I was like, what?

I don't understand that stuff, but it's so powerful to see what the mind is capable of. And in some ways, I'm assuming like it's pretty easy for you after a while. You're like, actually, it's pretty easy for you after a while you're like actually it's not that hard like after maybe i'm wrong but i'm assuming like you've done it so many times where you just yeah it's it it gets a lot easier with practice where it becomes an automatic thing and i think that's an important thing to note is that memory a lot of people think is just something you either have or you don't but it's just like any other skill. If you practice every day and you get used to it, it becomes easy and natural. Now, why is memory a lost art, the skill of memory?

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, this was what people did back in the day when there were no tablets and phones and computers or even mass printing, right? You had to remember something and you pass that story down to someone else and to be intelligent meant to have a good memory because you held the information right right that made the world go round um but you know as books and then computers come around it's like now we don't need to use our brains for memory anymore which is fine it allows us frees us up to do other things. But I think there's something to be said to, in using your memory and training your brain and keeping your mind fit in this day where we're just kind of like mindlessly tapping on things and swiping.

Yeah. Wow. What are some things we can do on a daily basis to help increase memory training? can do on a daily basis to help increase memory training? Yeah. Well, one thing is just to try and do it. It's very easy to use your devices to do that. But make the effort. I mean, if someone gives you their phone number, for example, try to remember it. I'm not saying forever.

Eventually, put it in your phone because that's hard to keep forever. You have to review them and stuff but when in that inter in that exchange try to you know make the effort to remember or when you go to the grocery store write it out um write out your list and commit it to memory and don't bring the list or don't put it on your phone and i know that makes it a lot difficult uh more difficult for some people because it's like i can't afford to forget something my kids will be hungry or whatever but that'll help you learn i mean if you forget something once you're probably not going to forget this i feel like waiters and waitresses they're great at this yeah i'm like blown away by the orders they're memorizing and i'm like you should write that down right because i'm the pickiest eater yeah so i like have to substitute

everything and i'm like i like things simple and i'm like please don't mess this up you know but they seem so confident they can get like eight people i'm like that's a talent it is yeah they're probably doing similar things right they're associating and i think a big part is that they have to do it every day and uh i think they also note that when you show that you have that uh memory skill, it boosts how people think of you. Absolutely. It's a very admiring skill to have. Wow. What's a challenge I can do with you right now

to see how good your memory is? We could try a number. I don't know if you have a piece of paper to write it down or you can put it on your device. I do. We can do like... Do you have a pen?

Let's try this. What we should do is write like let's do a 50 digit number. 50 digits. 50 single digits. Let's see this. Then we can do it two ways. I can have you tell me the numbers one by one

out loud. 50 digits. Or I can just read it. It's up to you. you can say it back to me yeah yeah well that would be the goal if I didn't do that we'll do it

50 single digits right yeah yeah so it's a total of 50 digits yeah okay so I'll let you write them out yeah sometimes I save yeah I'll let you write them out first

and then I'll when you're done I'll do it okay how long is it going to take you, though? Well, it depends. Do you want to do it out loud? Sure.

Okay. Or I say it, and then you'll repeat it back to me? Yeah. In that case... Forwards and backwards? Yeah. Well, you just say it forwards, and then I'll recite it forwards and backwards. That's what I mean, yeah.

Okay, yeah. But yeah, so in that case, if you could say it like one digit per second. Okay. That would take 50 seconds. Not like... One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. No. Yeah, so some people will do that. They'll be like two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. No. Yeah, so some people will do that.

They'll be like, I'm going to say this number, and they say like 28, 56, whatever it is. Yeah. So I still need time to process things, you know, because I'm doing this thing in my head. You're not like a superhuman? Come on. I know.

Disappointingly, no. Yeah, I'm an average person just with trained skill. All right. How many you got? 25. Okay. So I should, while she's writing that, I'll kind of explain what I'm about to do. So there's the conversion of the number that you'll say into a picture.

But then, you know, you still have a lot of pictures, right? So what I'm doing with those pictures is I store them in what's called a memory palace and this is a castle right yeah it's castle like some people call it a roman room method and what you do is you imagine some place you know very well like a house or an apartment um and you mentally navigate through it placing those images as you go and the idea is that those are pre-memorized, and they hopefully have some meaning to you. You've been there. You maybe have memories there.

So remembering that space isn't any part of it. It's not a part of the problem. It's easy. It's easy. Yeah. Remembering the number of the picture in the space, right? Yeah. And when you put that crazy image in a place that you know well,

it kind of makes it just bizarre and that's what we tend to memorize or remember better so you have an image associated with each number right yeah from one to nine yeah well so as you say when i do them um out loud i'm going to group them by twos just because it's a bit faster okay um so every pair that you say i'll be converting into a picture. So do two at a time. No, just say one at a time. One number.

Five. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You'll pair them though. I'll pair them as they come in. He's already getting, he's like,

when a number came, he was like, yes. Yeah. Okay. All right, so hold on. So I got to place myself

in a memory palace and we're going to do 50. Hold on. So that's, okay. Hold on. So that's – okay. All right. So just keep a pace like one, two, three, like that. What's your Memory Palace? So I'm using a – I'm in Kathmandu.

This is a hotel I stayed in before I attempted Everest in 2011. So it's, it's a pretty memorable place. Attempted. Yeah. I didn't summit. I got within 50 meters. You've done it three times though,

right? Yeah. 50 meters, 50 meters. Yeah. You could just, you know, at the top,

you're like, I wish it was one of those things where it was like, uh, so 50 meters, vertical meters was another hour, right? It's a lot. Yeah. And I was already struggling. I had an issue with my oxygen things where it was like, so 50 meters, vertical meters was another hour, right? It's a lot, yeah. And I was already struggling.

I had an issue with my oxygen mask and it was like, because then you have the return trip down, which is another five, six hours. It was getting dark or it was getting. Well, it was 3 a.m. So the sun was going to come up. And I think, I always think that if the sun was just like a little higher you feel a warmth and and that hope from the sun that i would have pushed on but it was probably a smart decision yeah really yeah and the other two attempts have been ah wait so how many times you attempt it three yeah three so you've never made it to the top close each time but 50 meters is the closest that's the closest

yeah yeah wow and each time you're like i'm gonna make it up there and then yeah that's i mean that's yeah that's the goal i spent there's a two month expedition that i'm two months yeah trying to climb it yeah yeah is it too much training or two months from the the base to the summit well two months you you that's with the whole expedition so i arrive in cam and do usually at the beginning and then we trek to base camp takes about a week and a half and then you spend the rest of the time kind of going up and down and down up and down a little higher because it's so high that your your body needs you need that long to acclimatize wow um it takes about six weeks for your body to really go through some serious um high altitude changes you're like nauseous a lot and yeah the first few days.

Well, no throwing up, but yeah, you get massive headaches and you're just like tired of everything you do. No energy. Have you studied Wim Hof? No. This guy's climbed Kilimanjaro like, I don't know, a dozen times without, with just shorts on.

Barefoot. No shirt. Okay. And see the guy that goes in the super cold? Yes. With no clothes on. His immune system doesn't change. with just shorts on, barefoot, no shirt. Is he the guy that goes in the super cold with no clothes on? His immune system doesn't change. His heart rate doesn't change. He does it all just by breathing in a certain way, climbing the mountain.

That's insane. It's cold there. Yeah, and he's got shirtless, and he's fine. Nothing's wrong with him. It's insane. He takes people up, much like average people, to do the same thing. To do the same thing?

Same thing. He teaches them how to do it through breathing. I need that because I hate the cold. So if you want to get up Everest, then he teaches you how to overcome the cold

with your mind. Yeah, that is, for me and maybe for you as a tall guy, my circulation, my hands and toes get ice blocks really fast. So managing my heat

on those mountains is hard work. You should go to Amsterdam and take this guy's course. toes get like yeah ice blocks really fast so managing my heat on those mountains is is is hard work you should go to amsterdam and take this guy's course off it'll probably get you to the summit yeah i'll check it out take a photo from the summer for me when you do it too without my shirt on exactly um all right you ready all right did i just throw you off? No, that's okay. Let me just resituate myself. Alright, let's go. 5, 2, 3, 9,

8, 6, 7, 4, 3, 1, 0, 9, 7, 8, 5, 5, 9, 8, 2, 1, 3, 4, 9, 7, 6, 8, 7, 5, 4, 1, 2, 0, 9, 7, 8, 6, 6, 9 7 8 6

6 2 3 5 9 0 2 1

1 5 6 9 1, 1, 5, 6, 9, 8, 7. All right, let me just go over to my head. Okay. Okay, alright, so from the top we have 5, 2, 3, 9, 8, 6, 7, 4, 3, 1, 0, 9, 7, 8, 5, 5, 9, 8, 2, 1, 3, 4, 9, 7, 6, 8, 7, 5, 4, 1, 2, 0, 9, 7, 8, 6, 6, 2, 3, 5, 888-213-497-6875. 4-1-2-0-9-7-8-6-6-2-3-5-9-0-2-1-1-5-6-9-8-7. That's it. Yeah. Have you ever messed up?

Yeah, I usually miss one and then I'll come back to it. I usually figure it out. Got it. And then in reverse, we'll start from the back so seven eight nine six five one one two zero nine five three two six six eight seven nine uh zero two one four 5 7 8 6 7 9 4 3 1 2 8 9 5 5 8 7 9 0 1 3 4 7 6 8 9 3 2 5. Got it. Yeah. There you go.

So what is each photo? I mean, how do you do that? Um, so, okay. So I'm, I'm at the front of this hotel in Kathmandu.

And you tell me, you said five and then two, which to me, remember using my two-digit system, that's Marty McFly from Back to the Future. Okay. And then what I'll actually do is every pair is a person, but also there's an action associated with it. So the next two digits, which were three and nine, I actually take that person and use their action. So that's Chuck Norris, but his action is like kicking something, like a roundhouse kick. So I put those together, and that's Marty McFly doing a roundhouse kick at the front of this hotel. doing a roundhouse kick at the front of this hotel. And I'll tell you why I put those two together is so that four digits now is really just kind of like one image

rather than having to memorize Marty McFly and Chuck Norris, you know? I could imagine Marty McFly interacting with Chuck Norris, but it's easier. It's more memorable getting kicked. Yeah, you give the action to the person and now it just feels like it's just the one person doing something,

which is, I think, a lot more memorable. It's four numbers. Yeah. And then so I moved to the lobby, like the front desk of the hotel. It's just inside. And there was Homer Simpson, 8'6", sword fighting with the guy behind the desk, which is 7'4". And we move over.

There's like a hick kind of guy, like with a straw hat. And, um, that's three one and he's doing jumping jacks. That's zero nine. And then into the other room is, um, my old boss at a pizza place when I was younger, um, die, her name is, and she's seven, eight, and she's reading a book five, five. And then we go up the stairs. I'm sorry, but it's one of my ex-girlfriends but she's taking uh a crap on the chairs on the on the stairs yeah and so on wow yeah so it doesn't seem it's not that hard once you kind of configure out that game in your mind yeah and you practice it enough it's not that as hard as it seems yeah now could you do without that if you didn't have

these kind of like brain game memory tricks, could you be like, if I was like, just set the numbers, would you be able to just... No way. Can anyone do that? I don't think so.

So the rule is, in the literature, is that people can, could do that for maybe seven plus or minus two numbers before it starts to get out of hand. Really? So you almost have to associate it

with a photo or an image or... Yeah. Mindcastle, whatever it is. Right. So that test, you know, it's called a digit span test. And some people do it where you see it. Some do it audio like you did.

And yeah, most psychologists will measure that the average human can memorize about seven things before, you know. And I think they did this study at Florida State University back in the 90s where they took like a runner. I think he was a runner, athlete, student. And they did this test to him every day. And he didn't have a system. and they did this test to him every day. And he didn't have a system,

but over time, I think he got to about 80 digits in a row with no technique. But he kind of was developing some type of technique and what he said he would do is he'd turn sequences of numbers into like running times. You know, like he'd say to himself, oh, that's like a really good mile or something

time or that's like the distance it takes me to do this many uh reps or whatever you know um so he was turning them into pictures kind of without having it so formalized like i do but um that was the only way that he was able to get so far wow now is there like a manual for this or is there like a who taught you this um i used an audio book by a guy named dominic o'brien who's a eight-time world champion from like the very early days he doesn't compete anymore and um that got me somewhat introduced to everything um but then from then on there wasn't much literature out there when i started so i just kind of figured by trial and error.

I'm working on my own book which hopefully will be out next year. Wow. What are these? Are they all the best in the world? Are they doing something similar in terms of the association and the rooms?

Yeah. So what you'll find is that everybody at the top is using some form of a memory palace and some form of encoding, which is turning the things into pictures. Got it. Some people have more elaborate encoding systems,

which some makes them slower because it's more time to process, but some people it's made them faster. And so my times for a deck of cards and numbers are quite good, but not the best. And I'm in the process of trying to rewrite some of my systems so I can kind of catch up. So the deck of cards is the same thing we just did.

It's just two more numbers. You would just like... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So for that, I have a picture for every card. So there's 52 people. It's much less than the numbers. And, yeah, I combine them in kind of this person action situation

and place it in a memory palace. Sure, sure. Yeah, that's cool, man. People love that one because it's like, is it a card trick? It seems like a lot of information because of the suits and the numbers. But it's pretty easy for you. Yeah. One card is one image.

So it's a lot easier than people think. And I've taught people how to memorize decks of cards. We're like, no way I could do it. I could teach you too. How long would it take? Well, at some point you need to sit down and say what all 52 cards will be, which can take some time. But I have done it where we just take the suits.

So just like the Jack, Queen, King of every, sorry, the face cards of every suit. And we just kind of give it whatever it looks like. Like King of Clubs, I usually tell people, okay, think of Tiger Woods because he's the King of Clubs. Well, maybe not anymore. Probably more. Yeah.

Jordan Speed or whatever. Yeah, exactly. That's interesting. Yeah. And we could place it around the very room we're in and people right grasp that grasp really quick yeah because it's something we all can do it's that's the crazy thing about memory is like people are so like i can't memorize anything and my my memory's gone

and all i'm doing is using stuff that our brains are i think naturally primed and and good at doing and once you kind of realize how to approach memory, use some association and store it in a spatial location that you know well, that's like sets our brains on fire. So a phone number is probably like the easiest thing to remember for you, right? Yeah. And it's a fun little thing because I ask people for their number and they say, are you going to write it down? I'm like, no, I got it. I got it. And so I'll ask for the zip code. I usually make a comment about it because I usually like to try and figure out where someone's from based on an area code.

And then the rest of the number is just like a picture. Yeah. So how would that work? So, well, for the average person, so if you didn't have a system, you just try to make a sense of the number sequence. It helps if you are familiar with the zip code, right? If you're from, I mean, the area code. So like in Miami 305, if someone tells me that, I don't even think that. You just remember the next seven numbers, right?

Exactly, yeah. And so for me, I'll do like the three digits that come next is a person for me. And then the next pair is a person. Yeah, I'll do like a person. It's like one-on-one. Yeah, so that's the Mad Hatter from Alice in Wonderland. That's a lot of digits you've remembered, man. Yeah, that's a lot of practice for that.

It's not necessary for the average person. But if I'm competing, I've got to do those. 9-3-2. 9-3-2, that's Pluto. That's crazy. See, there's a little bit of lag on the three-digit ones just because it's still a bit of a lookup. Really? Yeah.

What do you mean lookup? You just have to like access it? Yeah, yeah, because I know the two-digit ones like super quick. Yeah. 32 is Charlie Brown. And then so all the 32s are like Mickey Mouse like character people. Got it, got it. So you just have to remember the like-32, the 4-32.

Got it. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. You got a system down. Do you think we should train our brains more or our bodies more? Good question. I think it's a mixture of both.

I think, I mean, they both work hand in hand. I'm all about fitness for both. I always spend a lot of time in the physical gym every day. I do a lot of CrossFit. Big guy. Then I make sure to work out my brain too. Every day? Yeah.

What does that look like? We always start off the day going to crossfit for about an hour an hour and a half and then um i'll come home and start doing my training so memorizing i usually break it up into what the events are and do drills around it so like memorizing the cards i'll spend some time on that uh then i'll do the numbers and this is full time for you yeah yeah that. You can make a living doing memory training? Yeah, I guess. When I first started, it was just a hobby.

I was a software engineer and kind of did it sometimes on the hour, but mostly at home like when I was rushing to get to work or coming home. But then people started asking me, as I won a championship, my first one people started asking me, do you come and teach people how to do this or speak? I was like, I guess, sure. And that's kind of what it's become now. I love it.

I love teaching people and showing them that they all have this skill. It's just a matter of kind of unleashing that power. So now it's a full-time business for you, right? Yeah. that power. So now you've got a full, you're making, it's a full-time business for you, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So teaching, training, speaking, books coming out, programs, courses, whatever.

It's not always like, I mean, the nice thing about it is that memory is something that I think people always need help with and in any field or career,

you know, it can be applied. Memory can help you. So that's good. It's sometimes, it's hard to like get it across to people that yes you can do it too you know some people just write it off as something that they can't do and it's a challenge on my part to convince them you know what have you learned about yourself since going on this journey yeah you know uh when i first started um i used to always i loved getting into new things that stuff that would make me stronger or more skilled and um i'd kind of scratch the

surface and be like okay and move along so i i guess uh i'd be good at a lot of things but not great at anything um yeah so this was kind of the first thing that I mastered. You went all in. And I went all in. It was funny because when I started, it wasn't the goal. It wasn't to become a champion. I did it because my grandmother had Alzheimer's and when she passed away I was kind of like, man, I need to see

if I can make my brain strong. And so it started out of this passion and that inspiration from her and then before i knew it i was um getting really good at it and i i don't know i just kept doing it every day and the better i got and after winning a championship or two i realized okay i'm i'm i'm one of the best in the world at this and that was kind of the coolest thing and it helped me realize that like okay if you work hard at something no matter matter what it is, even something as crazy as improving your average memory,

then you can almost do anything. Maybe not some Everest, but I'm working on that one. And when did you start? When was this? That was 2009. I had kind of heard about it in 2008 and played around with it, but 2009 was when my grandmother passed, and that's when I flipped the switch.

Do you feel like this could help anyone with Alzheimer's before they get into that state? Yeah, I'm a big proponent of training your memory every day, just in the same way you stay physically fit to ward off all sorts of diseases and future age problems um i think if you train your brain you use your brain challenge it not necessarily always memorizing i mean there are other things you can do like i i think the the best thing for training your brain is to try to tackle something that's

uncomfortable for your brain and memorizing me, and learning those vast systems was one of those things. And I think those kind of things are what keep people sharp and give longevity to your brain health. What's a thing that would challenge your brain every day? So something that is new. Trying a new skill, like learning a language or playing an instrument. a puzzle um or putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation even you know like

going to like an improv class or something you know like where you're you have to think you have to be on your toes yeah it's so easy to get comfortable and i think yes i'm sure you know that and it applies to other fields is if you get comfortable in something you're not gonna get better at it or grow absolutely um and that applies to anything i think yeah wow what's the one thing you want to achieve through this journey that you haven't achieved yet yeah um i think my goal um ever from from the beginning was was so that i wouldn't end up in the same um kind of way as my grandmother did. But I think that's kind of morphed into trying to spread the message that nobody should end up like that.

And I want to inspire people to think about using their memories and that you can have a good memory and that mental fitness is a thing and it shouldn't be overlooked. It's not just about the body. I mean, your brain is a part of your body. It runs everything else. So why not value it more than,

or equally as your body? Sure. When you're climbing Everest, are you doing memory challenges as well or is your brain not have, is that a time where you shouldn't be doing that because you need all your energy into it? Yeah.

No, I actually – I'll go to places and try to recall things I've memorized or I will try and like I'll navigate through my memory palaces. I do try to distract my mind when I'm on those climbs. Yeah, because a lot of the climbing days are really like long, boring slogs and they're painful because you're struggling for air and it's it's steep and you know your body's just like that has no energy hasn't slept and you're wasting away at altitude you know so right so you're thinking you're playing games you're yeah yeah yeah that's actually been very helpful in getting through some of the the tough spots yeah wow 50 meters is so close i know i know it's right at the hillary steph right i'm just messing with you yeah when are

you going back i don't know those are that's in discussion oh really yeah do you want to go back or no i yeah i i love the mountains i love that place and a lot of it is i love the the memory that comes from it you know like that experience, the growth experience from it and meeting all these people and the culture that comes along with it. It's beautiful out there. How do you feel every time you come back? Yeah. So it's a very similar feeling to this feeling I have after winning or losing a memory championship where it's like you feel empty. After you win, you feel empty?

Yeah, surprisingly. Gosh, I know that feeling. Yeah, I know that feeling. And it's like you've got to search for the next thing. And sometimes I wish that I had never gone into those kind of things because I'm always trying to match that goal- goal-seeking high and it's it's tough to match even especially with the everest thing it's like there's nothing more uh exhilarating than a full expedition like that it's crazy so um but that's something i always end up finding something and it's good i think overall because it gets me to somewhere else. Exactly. I didn't expect. Exactly.

Wow. What's something that anyone listening could do every single day for 10 minutes to train their brain? Yeah. I would say get out a piece of paper. No. I would say ask – well, somehow find a list of words, right? i'd say 10 to 20 words and just sit there and try to memorize them um random words or yeah random better i mean not like a sentence but like random yeah just like random words chosen in a list like a list form um and find a place

that you know like your house mentally and and take yourself there and place those images for those words on a route around your house. Just try that. I tell people to have maybe two or three memory palaces that they can rotate between with 10 to 20 locations on each. And by locations, I mean I was using in that hotel, I was telling you about the front of it, the lobby desk, the sofa there. So I make, those are like specific locations.

And that particular memory palace, I have like 60 in a row that I've designated. 60. Yeah. So I can put a lot of numbers. But so think of your house and choose like 10 or 20 pieces of furniture or locations. And if you have two or three of those different places, maybe one's your house, maybe one's your office, and maybe one's like your favorite drive or park or something. You can have those as your go-to memory palaces when you need to memorize a list on the fly or if you want to memorize something that's useful for you. Like you just wanted to know Super bowl winners over the last 10 years right you know um so i say list of words uh try

with list of words but maybe try something that's meaningful like if you actually wanted to learn sure you know some facts or the presidents in order or something or names of people in your company or whatever you're yeah yeah exactly yeah interesting but but it all comes down to just trying to use your memory every day. Yeah. That's really what you should be doing today. It's a simple thing, but just try. Yeah.

Where do you think it'd be if you didn't start this memory process journey? Man. What would you be doing right now? Yeah, I don't know. I studied computer science and physics. Were you married? Were you guys together when you started this

no not at all I've been doing it longer than we've been together so I've always like I said I always am interested in many different things so I would have found something I think to apply that that hunger to master something which I hadn't found yet

but I don't know. I feel like maybe I would have always come back to it somehow because I've always been fascinated by the brain and what's in here that we're not using and what the potential there is. That's cool. Very cool, man. Well, where can we connect with you online? Yep.

So my website, nelsondellis.com. You can get my links to my socials and my YouTube channel. I'm trying to post a lot of memory how-tos on there. Yeah. Nice. More and more these days. And I'd love to make a shout-out to one thing where people can help out. Sure.

I work with this research company trying to help fight Alzheimer's and brain diseases. And all we need is a bunch of people to take this memory test that we have. We're trying to look for a million plus test takers for the research to be super impactful. Where is it at? It's extrememorychallenge.com. It's a five, ten minute test.

It's free. There's no catch or anything. It just helps our research. Does it give you tools on how to optimize it afterwards? I think you compare you get to compare your scores to mine which mine were nearly perfect but um of course sorry but um but you know i have a lot of tips on my website as well and on the website there they how-to videos and you teach people how to do this stuff yeah that's great awesome a couple questions left for you one is um if you could remember only one thing and everything else you forgot but you could have a one memory yeah the rest of your life

what would that memory be oh man uh it's either no it would have to be my wedding day yeah good answer yeah she's here i would have said that either way, honestly, because that was such a perfect day. That's cool. I wouldn't forget that. Okay. That's cheesy, but it's true. This is called the three truths. So you've mastered memory, you've mastered climbing, you've mastered all these other

things for the rest of your life. Whatever you want to go after, you make it happen. Every single dream comes true. Okay. You're 100 and something years old, and it's the last day. Okay. For you on this earth. Or however old you want to be.

All right. It's the last day. And you get to write down three things you know to be true about everything you've learned and experienced in this world and this life. These dreams you've gone after. Okay. And these are the final three things that the world gets to remember you by. So they could be simple lessons, truths, or three things that you would want to share.

And what would they be? All right. So one is work hard. That's the only way you grow and get better. Nothing comes for free like that. You got to work at it. That's the only way you grow and get better. Nothing comes for free like that. You got to work at it. That's one. Two is climb a mountain.

I think that's one of the best things anybody can do. It doesn't have to be huge, but just climb something. Travel somewhere and climb something. A friend of mine was asking me to do a little video thing. They're traveling the world right now. They're like, we're going to put together some people who like to travel and what their travel recommendations are. And mine, I was thinking about it would be if you're traveling somewhere, find a mountain and climb it. I think that's the best way to like get a cool experience

where you're going. You achieve something interesting in the place you traveled. And, achieve something interesting in the place you traveled and um yeah so work hard uh climb a mountain and um wow this is for me but i think just like just like accept like love and stuff like go for that stuff like be passionate about that i mean that made a lot of moves for this one over here and i think that's one of the things that's made me the most happiest. So I love it. I love it. There you go. Do you remember what they are?

Yeah. Before I ask the final question, I want to take a moment to acknowledge you, Nelson, for your ability to go after something that maybe you didn't think you were good at. And you became one of the best in the world at. Thanks. Yeah. And you're showing people that, hey, it doesn't matter if you don't think you were good at and you became one of the best in the world at thanks yeah and you're showing people that hey it doesn't matter if you don't think you're good at something right now that if you go all in on it and you find a passion for it that you can figure it out and be

one of the best or at least enhance your life in a certain way and i think it's awesome that you're doing this not just for your own benefit but you're doing it to give back to a community of people who have a disease that they aren't capable of growing. And you're teaching people how to train their brain so that hopefully they don't have to go through that as well. So I think it's amazing you're doing it for yourself, but also you're coupling it with giving back. And that's, to me, amazing. So I want to acknowledge you for that journey. Appreciate it. And the final question is,

what's your definition of greatness? Wow. Greatness, I think it's more of a personal thing. Greatness, I feel like, is judged by people outside. That guy's great or he's the greatest. But I think greatness is more like you doing what you love every day um to its max right um and as long as you believe that that's that's that's being great i don't think it has to be a huge label but as long as you feel like

you're fulfilling the things that you are super passionate about yeah then that's great there you go awesome thank you so much thank you appreciate it bro cheers there you have it guys I hope you enjoyed this episode with Nelson if you did make sure to share it out with your friends lewishouse.com slash 479 and tag me

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and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. you