The School of Greatness - 494 Becoming a Man: The Brutal Initiations Boys Go Through to Prove Their Manhood with Tim Noonan

Episode Date: June 7, 2017

"The only way to grow is by looking inward." - Tim Noonan If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/494

This is episode number 484 with filmmaker and adventurer Tim Noonan. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Theodore Roosevelt said,

big jobs usually go to men who prove their ability to outgrow small ones. Welcome to today's episode. I'm excited about this one because I interview a guy that I just found out about recently who went on an adventure for two years to discover all of the most intense rituals that men go through around the world to become men, that boys go through to become men. And his name is Tim Noonan. He's a filmmaker, producer, reporter, and cameraman. And he decided again to embark on this lifelong journey to learn what it means to be alive by exploring the life experiences of people across the globe. And his new TV show,

which is called Rite of Passage, is a 12-part series documenting his self-discovery to unlock what it means to be the ultimate man. Now, he met with the world's toughest men in the world's toughest places to experience their different rites of passage, where boys become men. From earning the tribe's trust to their cultural rituals and initiations. He endured grueling tests of pain to prove himself and earn their respect. I was fascinated by the stories that he told. You're going to hear it in my voice because some of the things he did are quite honestly shocking. And I don't know if I'd put myself through the experiences that he did.

This is a powerful topic for me, as most of you know that I've been doing research over the last couple of years about the mask of masculinity, which is the topic of my new book. And you guys can go pre-order it right now on Amazon at lewishouse.com slash mask. So this is, again, something I'm excited about diving into more, and I was fascinated hearing the rituals and routines that boys go through to become men. So again, check out my new book that comes out in a few months. You can pre-order it right now at lewishouse.com slash mask. And some of the things we cover are what would you say to women about how to support men

in their lives? How can women support men in their lives to become better men? Also, of all the initiations that Tim had to go up against, which one he decided not to actually go through with? Also, why a lot of these manhood rituals are fading away and why they're fading away. What we've lost in our society by letting our rituals go, the truth about how important challenges are to our healthy development as human beings in general, and so much more. Guys, I was fascinated again by the stories you're about to hear.

Before we dive in, I want to give a shout out to our iTunes review of the week. This is from Ashton Blair, who said, I randomly stumbled upon this podcast on a day when I was feeling pretty low. I had no motivation. I was frustrated with so much and all around grouchy. And within 15 minutes of listening to the first podcast, I was hooked. I started going through listening to older podcasts and as well as the new ones. And I felt myself get more inspired each day. I love coming into work and being able to listen not only to Lewis's story and journey, but to be influenced by some of the greatest people in the world that he interviews.

I wish I found this guy sooner. So thankful for this podcast that's motivating me to live out my full potential. So Ashton, Blair, thank you so much for being the review of the week. And if you would like to be considered as a review of the week, then make sure to like to be considered as a review of the week, then make sure to go to iTunes.com slash greatness and leave a review right now.

And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, Tim Noonan. All right, welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got Tim Noonan in the house. Good to see you, man. You too, Lewis. I'm excited about this. A mutual friend of ours forwarded me a video trailer of a TV show that you have.

And it's on a topic about manhood masculinity. It's called Rite of Passage. And I watched the trailer, not sure what I was going to see, but I remember being just wowed by it. And so inspired by the journey

you were taking and also what you were learning along the way and what you could share with all of us. And in a nutshell, share with us what Rite of Passage is and why you started to go on this journey. So I guess to put it into perspective, I basically left a cozy, cushy job in the city. Sydney. In Sydney, Australia, yeah, as a journalist to chase a dream. I wanted to create my own rite of passage, design a rite of passage to become a man in my own eyes.

It really wasn't for anyone else. So I literally just got a map, picked 12 of these crazy places, some of the most remote locations on earth, where they had these initiations that were still culturally intact. And I set about visiting each one of them to try to put myself through their own initiation, their own rite of passage that existed in these tribal communities and see if I could match it with the men.

And it was, yeah, like you can't, you just can't plan or script that sort of adventure. Now, where are some of the locations and what were some of the challenges? So, yeah, I started the journey off going into Siberia. I literally caught a train as far as you possibly could to go live with these reindeer herders who spend their life on the ice near the North Pole. And they live entirely off reindeer. And they're some of the toughest guys. They live off reindeer.

They live off the reindeer. They wear reindeer furs. They eat raw reindeer for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I saw you eating raw reindeer. Yeah, right? Yeah. Raw meat. Raw meat, yeah.

Well, they do cook it sometimes. But part of being a man there is having to learn to survive the biting cold. I mean, nothing can prepare you for existing in minus 40 degrees. It's just brutal. And they were some of the most stoic, tough men, but yet could still smile at the end of the day, never complain. They have to pack up and move every three days and learn to love and care for these reindeer.

But then ultimately you've got to take a reindeer's life. Shut up. And I'd never killed an animal before, you know. So to actually go through that process and have to confront it, look it in its eyes to survive and eat. And then it gets more confronting because the animal will be sitting on the ice and they literally cut it up and you start drinking the blood and eating the raw liver and all the rest of it.

And it's really intense. But that was just the beginning. The first initiation. So they're taking and all the rest of it. And it's really intense. But that was just the beginning. The first initiation. So they're taking care of the reindeer. Yeah. They love their reindeer. They love the reindeer. They exist on the reindeer.

So it's like a sim body. Oh, my gosh. So they're like pets, essentially. Yeah. Yeah, they are pets. They're taking care of them. They're grazing them. Absolutely.

Are they also kind of working reindeer? They're like helping move things? Yeah, they migrate. So they spend their lives migrating up what's called the Yamal Peninsula. I mean, it's so remote just to get there. We had to take an ex- Like the North Pole or something. Yeah, well, we had to take an ex-Soviet tank,

and then we were looking for these nomads in the middle of nowhere. And then we got, literally it took us three days by snowmobile, just straight into the- three days to get there yeah on the on the tundra and when you look around there's no markings to show where you are uh in the middle of siberia it's like the middle of nowhere um but somehow they managed to navigate their way find their way to this encampment and then they fall they literally just follow the reindeer as they graze up and down this peninsula. It's just unbelievable. How many men are there?

They normally live in family groups. So sometimes there might be three chum or four chum, which is their version of a teepee. Got it. And so we lived and filmed. So it was just me and one other guy that I filmed with who was my editor. And he packed everything in to come on this journey with me. And we literally were sleeping cheek to jowl with like six dogs, a family, under reindeer skins and stuff for six weeks. Wow.

So it was pretty hectic. And then eventually our guide had to leave to go back for another job. We were left without a translator. So we shot this whole episode trying to communicate without translation. Something magical happens then. You start working out. You can read people just with looks and somehow have a conversation with no words at all. Wow.

It's fascinating. But that was just the beginning. We then went- So the rite of passage for that was- Killing a reindeer and drinking its blood and eating its liver? And earning the right just to be considered a man out there. I mean, they spend all night out in the freezing cold as a 14-year-old trying to make sure that none of the reindeer escape and look after the herd. Wow.

From wolves and things like that as well. But yeah, and if they escape into, you know, reindeer escape into a neighbouring herd, then it's disastrous. Right. Now, how do they kill the reindeer? Is it emotional for them or is it just like a quick slit of the wrist?

No, they actually, it's quite full on, but strangely peaceful. They actually strangle the reindeer. So you have to sit there and hold the rope. No. Yeah, but look, you know, like I'd rather do that than- Is it the quickest way or is it? they they actually strangle the reindeer so you have to sit there and hold the rope no um yeah but look you know like i'd rather do that than quickest way or is it it's kind of the most peaceful way that they don't want to uh waste a drop of blood every drop is precious to them because that's how there's no vegetables or fruit or what like how do they um occasionally they'll

go you know on their way there's a like a little village on their migration they'll stop and they'll go, you know, on their way, there's like a little village on their migration. They'll stop and they'll get supplies and try to measure how much they'll need for months and months at a time. But, you know, there's no way that they can just scoot on back and pick up milk from the corner store or anything, any supplies they need. They've got to survive out there. Off of the reindeer. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't just reindeer.

Sometimes there was fish as well, but they'd drop a line down, pull up some fish from beneath the ice and literally freeze it, and then for breakfast they'd get the fish, cut it in half, and there you go, you'd eat it raw. No way. Yeah. Wow, man. So, but, you know, that for me, that was a –

I'd gone straight into the deep end because I didn't, A, know how I'd survive out there, whether or not I'd come back with a film at all. So to go off there chasing a dream and then pop out the other side, that was a manning up mission in its own right. What was the biggest lesson you learned in that experience about manhood? God, look, I think it was probably actually having to confront the killing of of an animal and probably also surviving just surviving that whole experience i mean for me at that time uh i think a lot of people leaving a very cushy job in the city uh and wanting to go off and have an experience and record it, I think a lot of people probably had thought maybe I wouldn't be able to do it.

So for me, I had a lot of self-doubt. So emerging out the other side, having accomplished it and forming this incredible bond and earning the trust and respect of these men in these really harsh conditions, I did feel like more of a man. And it sort of set the stage for what followed. Right. Wow. So what were a couple of other memorable moments and rituals?

So we went to Mongolia and I learned I had to trap and train a golden eagle to catch a fox in the wild. You had to train an eagle? Golden eagle, yeah, like enormous. You had to trap and train a golden eagle to catch a fox in the wild. You had to train an eagle? Golden eagle, yeah, like enormous. You had to trap it? Yeah, trap it and train a golden eagle. How do you trap an eagle, a wild eagle? So what they do is they – it's got actually a bigger story.

So we got there, we hit Mongolia, and I met my mentor who already had an eagle. He had this golden eagle. It's almost like a dog for 10 years. I was going to use this eagle to hunt. The traditional way for boys to become men, part of the right is for them to be able to fly a golden eagle to be able to catch a Corsair Corsair. We went on this extreme migration.

The temperature got so low that his eagle died. No. After 10 years he'd had this. That's so sad. On the back of a camel. It was devastating. Oh. So we.

It becomes like a child probably or like a pet, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And it lives in the house. Oh, no. With the family. So it was devastating. And then he said, look, stay with me and we'll catch and we'll trap

and we'll train an eagle. Be with me on this adventure. And so we did and we committed to staying with him. And, yeah, he taught me from A to B the whole process and it was just the most unbelievable experience. I mean, nothing can prepare you for a golden eagle flying towards you with these enormous talons that could pierce your skin like the ultimate predator it's just huge and it and it and yet it would land on you land on your arm uh with in the most tender way uh and be your mate and so you know wait a minute wait a minute

so how do you attract it to come land on you in the first place? Do you have like food? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have like a rat or something? Yeah, yeah, rabbit actually. A rabbit, you're dangling in the air? Yeah, a little bit of rabbit. When you see an eagle, you're just like.

No, no. So you catch it by actually stuffing a rabbit and then you put it on a mountain, a peak of a mountain, just flapping in the breeze, sorts of stuff. A rabbit. Yeah, and the eagle, that's how they term eagle eye. It's because they can see for miles and miles. It's the sharpest eye.

And so then they'll spot the slightest bit of movement on these barren mountains, fly down, land on the rabbit, and beneath that's a trap, which is covered in felt to catch it. Catches its legs or something? Yeah, catches its legs. And then what? It's like flaring around, trying around trying to get out yeah but then at that point we come in and uh and then start showing the eagle lots of love and attention and the eagle hunters

traditionally will keep their birds for um you know about oh actually it really is only about 10 years 10-15 years and then they'll let the eagle go back off into the wild. But it does become part of the family, and the bond that you form with an eagle, well, it's just hard to top that. Yeah. Yeah. So we actually came, we own an eagle hunting competition. So you, wait a minute.

Wow, wait a minute. So does, you give it a lot of love, but is it like trying to bite you and scratch you, or what, like, how do you put your face next to it and kiss it? It's going to bite you, isn't it? Yeah, initially. But then what happens is you bring it into the house and you shower it with affection and shower it with love and you just keep patting it, patting it, patting it.

You're touching it, patting it. And you feed it until it realizes that humans, you're not going to be a foe, but you want to be its best friend. Wow. And then eventually. What if it bites you? Well, then, yes, they do. In the first instance, yeah, you've got to be careful. Wow.

I mean, I had this eagle. They put a little hood on the eagle to cover its eyes to keep it calm. Yes. And then I was learning to take the hood on on and off oh my gosh and uh and i was just looking at this terrifying his mouth just sitting there about to peck my eye out oh my gosh but it didn't you know and then i don't know it's one of those those things it's just that that bond between animal and bird and human is something you can't really describe. That's amazing. It's like a horse. In Venezuela, I had to tame a bucking bronco, and that was an experience because I'd never ridden a horse before.

Oh, man. So to see this wild stallion on the open plains. Going crazy. Yeah, and then I had to sit on this horse, and they're bucking me off countless times and surviving that until you finally form this bond with this horse. It's just something I'll never forget. But, yeah, look, we did – I mean, there was 12 different initiations

and they ranged from everything in Brazil. The men would scale up into the tree canopy to prove their manhood and hit an enormous wasp nest and suffer these stings. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. That looked terrifying. Yeah. That's my saw that. Yeah. That looks terrifying. Yeah. I mean, that's my biggest nightmare.

Yeah. Have you been stung by a bee before? I've been stung by a bunch at one time. Oh, wow. When I was a kid and it was like miserable. Horrendous. Yeah, it was miserable. But you go up and you initiate.

Deliberately do it. And it's all about confronting the fear. Oh, my gosh. Of knowing that you're going to experience. Go through extreme pain. Extreme pain. Yeah. So, you climbed the tree.

Well, look, part of being a man is learning when to walk away. And so it was actually at that point I'd done so many initiations that when it came, I'd already hit a small wasp nest and I got annihilated. So the final event in this particular episode was hitting a nest that was almost a meter and a bit big and i was looking up at it and i'm just going that it's just not worth the risk because if you fall from the tree canopy which was three stories high so you have to hold yourself you're not strapped in there no no no no so you have to hang on while you're getting

while you're getting stung you can't swat anything And if you get stung on the nose, you fall from the canopy because you black out. Because it's that powerful. Yeah. I mean, I watched and also I'd seen these guys. I'd filmed a group of initiates being stung prior to that. And I'd watched them suffer for hours crying, hours and hours on end, thinking they were going to die. So for me to put myself through that again, sort of gosh i've proven to myself you were man

enough i was mad enough so i did i chose to walk away i still wanted to have kids and get married and have a family and i just wasn't worth the risk oh my gosh but you did like a small one you like i did a small one yeah but still had like a hundred wasp or something oh yeah it was no more than that but you know it was was only that big. But they were still stinging the crap out of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you could at least run away as opposed to like fall down. Exactly.

A hundred foot tree or something. It was only sort of head level, so that was okay. Oh, my gosh, man. So, it was another part in Brazil where another tribe, where they boys become men by suffering extreme fatigue and exhaustion to bring them to a delirious point where they see a vision of their future. Wow.

So that was another place. And in that tribe, they were the toughest guys around, really tough but also gentle giants. And, yeah, so it was a wild ride. What was the most painful experience to go through yourself and to also watch? The most painful was I got – I mean, I'd never been in a fight before, and part of the initiation in that same tribe in Brazil was you had

to confront another rival clan member with a club. A club. A club, yeah. Like a wooden bat. Yeah. Well, it wasn't wooden. It was like clan member with a club. A club? A club, yeah. Like a wooden bat? Yeah. Well, it wasn't wooden. It was like a root of a tree. So everybody gets given a root.

Like a bamboo type of – Yeah, a bit tougher than a bamboo club. But, yeah. And that was intense. And you just beat each other as hard as you can? Yeah, until one gives in. In the face and the head is okay? Not in the head.

Head's out of bounds. But you can, anywhere on the side of the body, you're allowed to hit. But not in the groin? Not in the groin. But when you see somebody walking towards you and he's about to hit you with a club, there's no turning back. You have to fight. Are you in like a circle of like?

Yeah, circle. And everybody's chanting and cheering. It's like the UFC outside. Yeah, for outside yeah for real crap out of each other so i broke a rib oh that's the worst feeling ever yeah because they'd match me with a guy it's actually designed normally they put um the younger kids in to sort of toughen them up and it's and the fathers you know uh guide them into the ring and it's a clan on clan thing. So you don't want to disappoint your clan. So you're against another clan? Yeah, you're against a rival clan. Oh, my gosh.

So my host family, I didn't want to disappoint them. So it was an honour thing for me. Right. And so when – yeah, I mean – because I film it myself. So I'd set up the camera and I put my mate behind it. And then I got back into position and I thought, okay, it's really going to happen. And then all of a sudden I'm in this fight.

You've never fought before. I've never fought before. And so, yeah, I broke a rib and then I thought I'd actually broken my arm as well. But, yeah, that's all part of it. See, where we went, there was no – Did you get a good shot at least? Yeah, yeah, I did. Well, the funny thing about that sequence was I was so high on adrenaline,

I didn't realize I was hurt. And I came back around, I looked through the lens, and I realized I was smiling through the whole shot, and I thought, oh, no, I've got to do this again. So I went back into the ring, and I thought oh no I've got to got to do this again so I went back into the ring and at that point um I had a I had a second round with this guy and he was I mean I broke like five five clubs over this this fella and he just kept coming he wasn't hurt at all um was he bigger than you same size he was the same same size as me so yeah they matched me up

with somebody that was my size my my strength, a bit younger. They usually put someone who's like stronger than you or what? Like the fathers would or? Oh, no, no. It's a pretty even match. Okay, got it. Yeah. He was younger?

Yeah, he was younger. Sure. He was a lot tougher. Yeah. That was the most pain. That was definitely the most painful. Yeah. More than the wasps.

I mean, I've had my ears pierced with like a puma bone in the same tribe because all of these places, they sort of have the mark of a man. So once you've gone through the process of confronting what they perceive to be their greatest fear, they usually sort of get reintegrated back into the community with that mark of a man. And in that case, it was getting your ears pierced. In some places, I was scarred. They took to me with a razor and a knife.

In other places, it was more just like a physical challenge. But, yeah, it was really interesting to me. People often say, like, do you feel like more of a man now you've gone off and done this? And I guess the short answer is yes because, yes, as a kid, I never probably felt quite tough enough. You never did. No, I don't think so.

We grew up in Australia. Yeah. So for me it was kind of important. But you don't certainly – everybody We grew up in Australia. Yeah. So for me, it was kind of important. But you don't certainly – everybody doesn't need to go off and jump on wild bulls and horses and crazy things to prove their manhood. You could do it in normal everyday city life. Should we have to prove our manhood in the first place as men? That's a really good question. No.

But I think you need to prove to yourself. I mean, it's changing, isn't it? Like once upon a time, we were warriors and we'd have to hunt and provide and protect the village or the clan we were in. But that's what these people are still doing. That's what these people are still doing, yeah. The tribes, the people that are...

Yeah. They still have to protect, provide, make sure there's food, shelter, safety, right? Well, not to the same extent because I guess there's no sort of – I mean, unless you go to some places in Africa, they're not warring each other. Certainly in Africa, there are still places where that happens. But in a large part, especially today in the Western world, I think men are probably more confused now about their place and how they should prove themselves, if at all. For me, it was a personal thing.

I felt like I, you know, growing up with farmers all around me, you know, guys that weren't afraid to get their hands dirty and things like that. I think I'd always felt like it was something that I needed to do. But it wasn't about anyone else. It was about myself. I think young boys in particular, it's good to have – I mean, for girls, there's no greater rite of passage than for me to have a child because I can't think of any more extreme initiation that I would have ever been through.

But for guys, it seems like what intrigues me is all around the world in these remote parts, it's not like everybody had a convention. They got together and they said, how do we turn boys into men? They all did it in separate ways. And it was all about this whole separation from being a very dependent child. You know, you grow up completely dependent on your parents. And it's about killing that boy to become a man in these places. So they separate.

It's all about separation. They separate the boys from their parents and they put them in a men's hut and they teach them the ways of manhood in their society so they'll teach them how to be with a woman they'll tell them you know according to them they'll tell them how to survive on their own how to protect how to provide how to make decisions assess risk raise a family and all those things. And then there's always in these tribal places, there's always this certain obstacle that they have to overcome

that they feared since they were young. And during this process, when they're separated and they're in this men's hut, they're told about this. And it's always the lead up to this event that's worse than the actual initiation themselves, without a doubt. the anticipation it's the thought of it what could go wrong or what the build-up yeah for me and for me it couldn't have been more so because a lot of these cultures i had no clue about how i was ever going to say i had to crawl down into a snake's lair and wrestle a monster python out to provide food for a tribe.

So nothing can quite prepare you for overcoming that. To get bit by a snake. You don't get bit. You have to pull it out because they don't have any animals that they live with. There's no other meat. So they eat the snake. They eat snake meat.

So you put your hand down a hole. Well, you actually crawl head first into the snake's lair. Why? Well, that's just part of it. What if it bites you in the face? Well, exactly. And that's the risk. In fact, actually, some of – part of it was putting – I had to put my leg down a snake hole.

And the snake would have to eat – like swallow my leg. What? And the boys would pull my leg out. No, it did not. Yeah, like swallow my leg. What? And the boys would pull my leg out. No, I did not. Yeah. It swallowed your leg. You actually bend your knee after it swallowed your leg and then everybody-

You had a python. Yeah, on your leg. Swallow your leg. I didn't actually because something bit me and it ended up being a tortoise. Yeah, but- A turtle bit you. Yeah, so in the end-

That hurts. We went to another hole and that hole was big enough for me to crawl down. So I actually had to crawl down into the snake's lair. Wait a minute. The hole is- The snake made the hole that you could crawl down. It was that big. No.

So what happens is the snake eats a jackal and overtakes the jackal's lair. So when I was crawling down into the snake's lair, I actually was finding bones. Oh my goodness. Giant bones. I'm's lair, I actually was finding bones. Oh, my goodness. Giant bones. I'm thinking, God, I hope that's not his last lunch. So did he catch your leg? No, no, not in the end, thank God.

But usually that's the initiation, to put their leg down there or their arm to get it caught. Yeah. That is terrifying. Historically, that's how they would do it. These days, a lot of the men actually just use traps. Smarter. Yeah, a lot of these traditions are actually fading away in these places because there's virtually nowhere on earth left without Facebook.

So the modern world is starting to move in. A lot of these ways of turning boys into men are fast being lost. I think identity is everything. And if you don't have that cultural identity of where you've grown up, then I think it's a real shame. So part of actually shooting this series was about capturing these customs and traditions before they disappear forever. But once you've overcome that obstacle that you feared, often the boys will get reintegrated back into the community with a new name

they've overcome this extraordinary fear that they've had um and they 99 of the time they've emerged feeling like self like they're confident men they're capable of looking after themselves and there's like rituals are quite important, I think, anyway. I mean, that's just my opinion. But we've lost that. As in this society, we'll go off and we'll – maybe you'll write a passage. It might have been to go out and – well, let's play football – but to drink for the first time and survive that 21st when you go out with your mates.

Or it might be going out on a gap year and travelling the world. But you come back and there's no real ceremony to celebrate that. And you're not really seen as a man at that point. It's up to you here in the Western world to decide that you're capable. I guess for a lot of guys, it's probably when they they have a child that's the moment they become a man they step in they have a responsibility yeah yeah but in these cultures there's a ritual as a ceremony that surrounds that moment and it's a really clear defined path was there a same age for all these like rituals like 10 15 20 was no no it varied. Yeah, it totally varied.

In fact, in one tribe in West Africa, it didn't matter when you went through the rite of passage, but at some point in your life as a man, you needed to go through this rite of passage. And it would be for six years living in the jungle, having to provide for the elders and be taught the ways of manhood. So a lot of guys would actually – Six years on your own?

No, no, with the group, with a group of men just as initiates in the jungle. By yourselves? Yeah. You never see your family? You sort of live on the periphery or the perimeter of the village, but you're not allowed to have sex. You're not allowed to talk to women. You've got to stay, always sort of be not seen or heard.

And you've also got to provide everyday food and drink. Bring it back to the village. Yeah, for the village and for the elders. Wow. It's almost like they're superannuation. Yeah, super. It's just like a level of, it's like, what is it, like a mission trip or something almost where you're like going out

for a couple of years and providing or whatever. Wow. Yeah. Six years is a long time. Six years is a long time to prove your manhood. It's like becoming a monk. Yeah, exactly. It's like you can't touch anyone.

You can't look, you know. But the interesting thing was like there was like, you know, six-year-old kids as initiates, but also ranging right up to guys that had avoided becoming a man in the village's eyes their whole lives but were you know in their 30s and oh um i mean i think there was probably even one one guy in his 40s oh my gosh yeah what is the thing you learned about it sounds like all these things are overcoming fears it was that's the biggest thing that's it overcoming fear or pain.

Yeah. Well, not so much pain because I think it's the fear of the pain that was for me. The buildup. Yeah. The biggest thing that I learned on this whole adventure was to embrace challenge and try to embrace fear and conquer fear as much as I possibly could because every time I feel that, it means that I've got something more to learn.

So for me, I think as kids we get taught that a challenge is bad or a challenge is negative. But you don't get taught that that's the only time that you grow. You don't get taught that that's the only time that you grow you don't get taught that that adversity is the only way and conquering that adversity is the only way that you can expand yourself because if you're only constantly adored and praised you don't go anywhere you flatline so the biggest thing that i tried to preach um in to myself is that every time that little fear bell goes off that oh there's something else like i've got to do and that doesn't mean again that doesn't mean how you're gonna have to go and jump

on a bull or do something wild and crazy like in madagascar how the boys become men they jump into a bull pit and have to wrestle the bull um that can be in any any aspect of life can be doing an interview or writing a book or chasing your dream or doing something that scares the living daylights out of you and i know that you're a big campaigner for that and you've done that multiple times yeah and you continue to do that um and i think i mean do you agree is that like the the bigger message for you yeah for me i've always tried to just overcome all my fears as well by through self-initiation, I guess. Like no one ever gave me like here's the thing to do.

When I was terrified of talking to women when I was a 15-year-old, I was like I'm sick and tired of being afraid every time a girl walks by that I'm interested in that I don't know what to say or I feel insecure

or I feel like I'm not good enough. So I was like, enough is enough. Every single day this summer from school break, I'm going to talk to a girl. I'm going to go up and say hi to a girl

that gives me the most butterflies. Wow. Every single day and just say hi and then have a conversation and then ask for her number and just like, just to do it.

Yeah. Whether like she says hi back or not, like it became irrelevant. Is that how you met? No, no. But I did reach out to her through Instagram, actually. Oh, right. But I just got so confident with myself.

I don't even remember any of these girls, right? I don't even think I went on. I didn't date any of them. I might have went out with a couple of them. But it was just the act of doing it every single day built up such confidence in myself. Learning how to understand people better, learning how to connect, relate, communicate,

understanding what people want, what they need. Everyone's got their own insecurities and fears as well. Yes. And I think just going through the process of it, it allowed me to overcome the fear. And that was the big thing, not feeling crippled that i couldn't do something what did you learn about yourself at that point

i think at that point um i don't know i have to go back 15 17 years i think it was just like you know that that people are gonna like me that i'm you know so it was being liked an important thing for you yeah it was i didn't I'm, you know, so it was being liked and important thing for you. Yeah, it was, I didn't have any friends growing up. Yeah. So it was just like,

you know, and then girlfriends would have been, was even more terrifying. So it was like just getting people to be able to feeling like I was good enough to be around people smart enough or funny enough or whatever. So was there a tipping point for you when you found that you felt like you were? Yeah. I think like going into, you know, junior, senior year of high school, like it started to turn. I started to kind of like develop into my body because I was like this tall, goofy looking kid my whole life.

I started to get better and better at sports. And so I just had some accomplishments and had a lot of friends eventually and things started to change. Yeah. Yeah. accomplishments and had a lot of friends eventually and things started to change yeah yeah but i think it was because i was so committed to making a change and overcoming these challenges that i was facing these insecurities and just decided to give myself these own rituals yeah or rites of passage very going through it's very similar to me yeah yeah it was like self-inflicted you know pain but it was powerful.

And I feel like I still do it today. Like even eight, nine, ten years ago, I was terrified of speaking public. Yeah. And I was like. Got to do this. I met someone who was an expert at it, who was the tribal leader of public speaking, right? I went and found like the leader. And he was a professional speaker and spoke all around the world and got paid. And I was just like, what? I went and found the leader. And he was a professional speaker

and spoke all around the world and got paid. And I was just like, what do I need to do? And he said, you need to go and overcome your fear by going and doing it every single week. Join a club called Toastmasters, which is like an international public speaking club where they facilitate you practicing it. You get up in front of their audience,

you practice different things, they give you prompts and they walk you through different styles of public speaking. And I did that every single week for a year and it was terrifying. In the first six months, it was like I wanted to throw up

every single time I went. It was so terrifying because everyone was so good and I was the worst person. But I just got better every single week by putting myself through it, by just showing up and just doing my best. By the end of the year, I just felt so much more confident. It was night and day. And I wasn't afraid to stand in front of a room of people

that I didn't know and share a message because I put myself through the challenges. I think that's what a lot of us need to do is put ourselves through the challenges that we're most afraid of. Whether we live in a tribe that does it for us, most of us don't have that. And so we should be seeing like, how can we do this in our own lives? I totally agree. Whatever the fear is, how can we become Batman? You know what I mean? How can we embrace the bats in our life and be one with it? I think a lot of people get pulled back and crippled because of fear. Like the biggest ripoff, I think, is of people get pulled back and crippled because of fear. Like the biggest ripoff, I think, is when people don't chase something that they might be passionate about or chase what will truly make them happy.

And a lot of people say to me, well, I don't know what my passion is. I don't have a passion. And that's just simply not true. Because you don't have to scratch far to see what they do when they go home what's surrounding them what they surround it in their office or in in their bedroom what brings them joy what they're like yeah you know smile at the most what brings them the most laughter all those things yeah you only have to look back yeah to find out what you're passionate about and like some people i think if they say if they say, well, I just want to be a mom, well, that's brilliant.

You could leave a legacy of children that will fulfill their own dreams. I mean, what better passion would that be? I can't think of much more of a noble pursuit. But yeah, but fear is, conquering fear, I think, is one of the biggest and best things that anyone can ever do. What's been the biggest challenge for you as a man to define yourself as a man? Well, you may have written about it in your book. I mean, like it's certainly not,

I think I went all the way around the world to realize that actually I was a man all along. I just didn't know it. So it's not necessarily having to put yourself through brutal initiations where you get hurt. That's not what it's about. It's about conquering your perceptions in your mind about how you see yourself and being cool with yourself and comfortable with who you are and you can do that in any way

possible like you can do that in the city if you need to just by asking girls out or doing public speaking or pushing it pushing yourself to go for chase that dream or go and find a job that you truly want to do or um you know there's this countless ways that you can do it so i think what i realized about myself yeah was that i was a was a man all along all along and actually and the biggest thing i learned was being comfortable with who i was what's your definition of masculinity um some somebody that is brave in the sense of conquering fears i think somebody that's um that's not afraid to uh to make decisions and and follow passions and pursue them wholeheartedly. Somebody that can treat women with utter respect.

I think I have inbuilt perceptions of what it means to be a man from childhood about the pillars of being a protector and a provider. I've got those those perceptions of what it means to be a man that i just can't get rid of like i still want to take care of my fiance and i want to create a family that i'm taking care of but you know like one thing i've learned is that sort of rips off her as well because then i'm sort of saying well i'm i'm better than you when she's just equally uh as talented and proficient at her career as a journalist, if not better than I am. So like if I say I want to protect and provide you, I'm sort of cancelling out any opportunity she might have to protect and provide for me. I'm cancelling out any opportunity she might have to protect and provide for me and to work together to grow and start a life together.

So, yeah, it's constantly evolving and changing. I mean, I think I've dedicated my whole life to documenting the rites of passage of life and manhood and whatever that may bring or mean the day i figured that out was the day i wasn't scared of anything because i thought well you know one of my major passions is filmmaking so i thought well i could just document anything that went wrong like it doesn't matter what happens i can document it uh and then hopefully i can share that and inspire people at the same time. And so, yeah, for me that was a real release because then I wasn't scared at all.

In fact, any adversity, any challenge that came my way, it's an opportunity for me as fodder to explore myself and then share whatever I've learned with other people to inspire them to do the same thing. Yeah. If you had 60 seconds to say a message to every man in the world, child, adult, teen, boy, man in the world, and they were all connected to headsets right now, and they all put on their headsets and they had a direct line to your mic,

and you had 60 seconds to tell them something about how they should be thinking about themselves as a man. Wow, that's a big, big question. And they could all understand you. They could all understand you in their own language. And you had to say a message about what manhood means to you and how they should be thinking about their manhood moving forward. What would you say

gosh the the most important we're all here to grow that's what life's about and to follow a passion whatever that may be because at the end of the day you can't die with immaterial things so all we've got is our experiences and we still no one can can try to explain what what exists what this existence is so the only thing that you've got left is this journey in this journey of life and on earth is to try to explore what it means to be alive as thoroughly as you can. Push yourself. Try to experience every extreme emotion and enjoy it. Embrace challenge.

Embrace every obstacle that comes your way and try to grow as much as possible and do what, while doing what you love. Because I think that's the only thing that we have that gives us pure bliss. And yeah, I don't know. Does that work for you? Yeah, it works for me. But it's not about what works for me. I'm just curious your thoughts, you know, from your journey. Yeah, I mean, that's a big question i mean i could you could go and start

talking about what it means to be a man specifically but it's not the same for every person absolutely yeah you know it's all different now if you were connected to and all the men took off their headphones and now all the women in the world put on a headset. And you've got to have 60 seconds to talk to all the ladies in the world. And they could understand you and their language or whatever. I'd say exactly the same thing. And the prompt is, what would you say to them about understanding the men in their lives? And the best way to be supportive to the men in their lives.

Well, that's the greatest question in the world i men are from mars women are from venus i mean we don't always understand and get each other but that's the allure of being different you know that's why i guess i'm attracted to my fiancee maybe what's she's attracted back to me because I don't know. I think, mate, some of the strongest thing, the strongest thing I ever did with my fiancé was to sit down and eradicate any codependency between us. So what would I say to the girls in the world? I think it would be to allow your partner to grow in his own way without judgment

and see how every adversity that you guys might face can benefit you and vice versa. I mean, it might sound confronting, but my girl and I sat down and we actually were in a position where we were quite codependent on each other and feeling things like jealousy and all the rest of it. And the only way to let each other grow independently, because you want two pillars, right, to be able to grow. You don't want to be dependent on that other person

because that can be really suffocating for both parties. So we worked out all of the benefits of it sounds counterintuitive of not being together until we both felt like we could take it take the relationship or leave it and at that point you this amazing thing happens you decide you want to be together because you don't feel strangled you know that if it all collapsed tomorrow you you could go walk away. Both of you could walk away and still be okay. And so when we both did that, we both realized that, well, we felt nothing but pure love and respect for each other. And I guess the greatest thing for me was that my fiancee never tried to change me.

And she was always, she realized we all have a unique set of values and to not try to impose yours on someone else. And for her then to kick me out the door to go make this series was the greatest thing that ever could have happened. It was permission to be me, to be yourself and i hope that i could do the same back to her that's very nice why is it a few more questions for you why is it that um society in general i feel like we need to prove manhood um whereas i don't feel like it's as much for for women that they have to prove that they're a woman.

No, and it isn't in a lot of these tribal cultures too. I think probably if you go back to us being tribal, like fundamentally from our roots, men were always, you know, we evolved so that we could defend our village or our clan or our tribe. So we would have to go through these initiation rites so there was a period of defence

so that we could not be scared to protect the girls and have to go off and hunt and physically be able to go off and provide. And I think that probably has carried through until today. So fundamentally, it probably is just in us that men feel like they need to prove themselves. Should we still have that nature or should we let it go since technology and other things have changed? Yeah, well, that's the million dollar question. Roles are reversing and all these other things.

I mean, there's still rites of passage in terms of football or team sports or things like that where guys have to put themselves through some sort of initiation and they emerge out the other side. But I think probably what would help even more would be some sort of ritual and ceremony, greater rituals and ceremonies around that that are being lost. What do you think about whether or not guys need to go through initiations and lots of passage today?

I mean, you're still doing it. Yeah. I don't think we should have to prove to anyone else. With yourself. It's all about. it's all about just being okay with who you are and i think in order to do that you need to go through some type of adversity challenge i think it's important because at the end of the day you before you can give truly to somebody else you've got to be cool with yourself yeah Otherwise, it's fruitless. That's it.

Are you hoping to have kids? Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if I'll put my kids through the same rites of passage that I've done. How would you try to raise your son if you had a son? All about. I think I'd probably sit. I'd like if I had a son or a young girl, but probably more so a son would be be to sit down and, no, both actually, both sexes,

would be to sit down and every night talk about what scared them today and what were the benefits of that and what could they get out of that and try to breed, I guess, a mentality of not being frightened of anything, but trying to embrace that, embrace that fear. I think that's the strongest legacy I could leave. That's smart. Yeah. I like it. What's the thing you're most grateful for recently, Tim?

Probably the challenge of, like most recently, probably the challenge of coming here, the show's about to be launched in the States on a network called El Rey. And it's, yeah, it's been a really exciting time for me because I'd spent two years making this series on the road and it was a lot of risk that I'd spent two years making this series on the road and it was a lot of risk that I'd taken like also I'd proposed to my fiance before I left um and I guess I'd walked

away from my career and I'd risked physically you know um reached a lot of failure had a massive fear of failure and I'd risked my life so many times. So coming here now and having the show being seen by so many people around the world has been an amazing experience and it's tested me because I had that same fear probably that you did of not being liked and things like that and criticism. So that's been a really cool thing for me to embrace and realize that you can never, ever please everybody.

You know, you're always, everybody is always going to have, it's going to be a balanced 50-50 percent of people that will like it and 50 percent of people that won't in everything. And also realizing that there's an innate balance that the universe gives in every situation, in every moment of your life. And that's probably another thing that I try to teach my kids, to see that and understand that. This is called the three truths.

So if it was the last day for you, you can always share three lessons that you've learned. This is what you'd be remembered by. Are these three truths or lessons? What would you say are your three truths? It could be about anything. It doesn't have to be about manhood or masculinity. Ooh, three truths. Ooh, three truths.

That the only way to grow is inward, is by looking inward. That you should always pursue your greatest passion, your bliss, follow your bliss, and that our lives are innately, we all have a hero's journey within us that we have to follow and to embrace that journey for the rollercoaster that is life, I think. Does that make sense? Of course. Yeah, of course. I mean, I struggle.

I told my fiance i wouldn't go here and talk about this but i struggle with reality and what it means to be alive almost every day um and the only solace i get is doing what i love yeah so there you go because it's, yeah. I see where you're going. I see where you're going. Awesome. It's timnoonan.tv, correct? Yeah. timnoonan.tv. You guys can check it out in the show notes.

Watch the trailer. It's going to blow your mind. Watch the show. Connect with you on social media. It's all timnoonan. Yeah, no, just Facebook slash timnoonan.tv. Awesome. And then, of course, check out the Rite Tim Noonan TV awesome and then of course check out

the Rite of Passage new TV show yeah check it out it's a game changer I want to acknowledge you for a moment Tim for going on a journey

and tackling your biggest fears because most people don't do it not even men but most men and women don't go and tackle their fears

the way you did and also doing it in a way where you could benefit in multiple ways. For yourself personally, you were able to create a piece of art and work out of it. So you were able to sustain yourself. You were able to give back to the world by showing people what's possible for themselves through these rite of passage episodes. So I feel like your journey was not just for yourself, but you did so many things

along the journey. So I want to acknowledge you for that and for being so creative and tackling the things that you're most afraid of, because I think that's our biggest challenge is we're not, so many people aren't willing to go after their fears enough. And I think that's what's on the other side of fear is incredible joy, fulfillment, awareness, love, all those things. So big props to you on there. And the final question is what's your definition of greatness? Being the best version of yourself that you can possibly be, I think. I'm yet to meet anybody that doesn't want to be a better person

or at least try to be a better person. I think that's what binds us all. And so, yeah, I think it's exactly that. Awesome. Tim, thanks so much, man. Appreciate it. Thanks, Lisa. There you have it, guys.

If you enjoyed this one, make sure to let me know. Tag me on Instagram stories or Instagram feed, Twitter, Facebook, all those good places, at Luis Howes. Let me know your thoughts. Post an image of you listening to the show or watching the show, as I love to interact and connect with you guys on social media. Share it out with your friends, lwishouse.com slash 484. Again, I was fascinated by hearing the stories of the rituals and the tests and the initiations

that Tim went through. So if you were as well, share it out if you think it'll inspire men or women in your life. I'm so pumped for what we have coming up. Some big, big things. If you guys have not signed up for the Summit of Greatness, it's coming in a few months. Check out the incredible speakers we have coming at summitofgreatness.com. It's going to be a mind-blowing experience, and I hope to see you there. And as always, you guys know what time it is.

Go live with passion. Pursue your dreams. Be good to people. And you know what time it is. Go live with passion. Pursue your dreams. Be good to people. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.