The School of Greatness - 533 High Performance Mindset Training with Dr. Michael Gervais

Episode Date: September 6, 2017

"Uncomfortableness is how we grow but pain is why we change." - Dr. Michael Gervais If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/533

This is episode number 533 with high-performance psychologist Dr. Michael Gervais. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Michael Jordan said, you have to expect things of yourself before you can do them. I'm very excited about this episode because it's all about how to optimize your performance,

how to take your life to a whole nother level. And it starts with the mindset. I'm super pumped about Dr. Michael Gervais, who's with us right now. He is a high performance psychologist with over 20 years of experience working in high stakes environments with some of the top athletes, musicians, and executives in the world. He is known for his work with the Super Bowl winning Seattle Seahawks, helping them with their mental performance, Microsoft executives, Olympic beach volleyball star, Kerry Walsh Jennings, world record skydiver,

Felix Baumgartner, and PGA golfer, Luke Donald. Dr. Gervais has been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, Fox News, and many other media outlets. And the things we talked about today are really how to optimize the mindset for peak performance, for high performance. And one of the things we cover is what is really going on in the brain when someone is actually in flow state at their most peak performance? What's happening in the brain? And why do we need to be more if we want to do more and how we can be more?

How our mind is like a drunken monkey most of the time and how to manage it effectively. Three tactics to discover your personal philosophy about life and really michael says that this is one of the keys to overcoming a lot of fears is by having this personal philosophy and he teaches you how to find it also what to do about loneliness that comes from pushing your edges because those that want to achieve great things usually have to go to a lonely place, especially in their mind when doing those great things. Some powerful stuff. Make sure to take a screenshot of this right now.

Tag me on your Instagram story at Lewis Howes and share this with your friends who want to achieve more high performance in high stakes environments. Also, a big shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Ash Passion who said, seriously love your podcast. in high stakes environments. Also a big shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Ash Passion, who said, seriously love your podcast. It's very enlightening and insightful. It makes me feel like I'm learning from the top knowledge experts.

I listen when I'm out and about while I'm cooking and cleaning. And if I need motivation, I turn it on. If I want a good start to my day, I check it out. I can't get enough. Thank you. So thank you so much for being the review of the week. And if you guys want a chance to be considered for a shout out on the podcast, all you need

to do is leave a review over on iTunes. We go through those every single week. We take out some of the best and we'll give you a shout out to be considered as the review of the week. So check it out over on iTunes and leave us a review at School of Greatness. Also, we are about a month and a half away from the launch of The Mask of Masculinity. This is the book I've been working on for over two years. It's a journey about how men can embrace vulnerability, create strong relationships, and live their fullest lives. What's in this for men?

Men will understand what holds them back from their most powerful self. They'll develop an unwavering foundation of confidence in any situation. It will help propel them to a level of power and success that they may never thought possible. Embrace and let go of any fears that hold them back from their dreams and so much more.

But this book is not only for men. It's for women too. It's for all the women who want to understand the men in their life better. It's for women who want to learn ways you can emotionally support the men you love, to learn powerful tools to connect more intimately in your relationships,

learn how to get men you love to open up and be more vulnerable and understand what holds the men in your life back. That and so much more. Make sure to go to Mask of Masculinity right now. You can pre-order one copy and get a bonus or you can pre-order multiple copies. I'm giving away a ton of goodies for people that get three copies, that get 10 copies, 250 copies. I'm giving away a ton of goodies for people that get three copies, that get 10 copies, 250 copies. Check out all the bonuses. It's unbelievable what we're adding, how much value we're adding when you buy one book, three books, or more. So check it out

at mascofmasculinity.com. And when you pre-order a copy of your book, make sure to take a screenshot of the receipt and tag me on your Instagram story at Lewis Howes. And I will respond to each person who does that. So check it out, mascofmasculinity.com and tag me on Instagram when you do. All right, it is time to take your mind to a whole new level so you can optimize for any high stake environment you have in your life to get into the flow and take control of your dreams and your life. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Dr. Michael Gervais.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greenness podcast. We have Dr. Michael Gervais in the house. Good to see you, my friend. How are you doing? My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Of course, man. I'm very excited. Now, you are a high-performance psychologist with 20 years of experience working with a lot of high-level Olympians, athletes, executives to just high-stakes performers in general. That's right. And I'm curious, how did this begin for you? Was it originally in sports psychology? I think a lot of people originate from sports, or was it something else for you? Was it originally in sports psychology? I think a lot of people originate from sports or was it something else for you? Yeah. Great question. I'll take you back to how

it started for me, which I think that most trajectories in life begin with some sort of pain. And so if, yeah, if we can get clear on what that is, then, you know, I think the path gets much easier. So I'll start there. But before I go there, the mechanical part is pretty simple. Undergraduate degree in psychology, master's degree in kinesiology. I'll put an asterisk on that for a minute. And then back to a PhD in psychology with an emphasis in sport.

And then licensed as a psychologist in California. And then figured out, I didn't know anything. At that point, I still didn't know anything. I knew all the theories. Yeah, I mean, with all those training. But what I did know is all the base theory theory and i got to stand on the shoulders of giants that have researched over and over again like how the human mind and body work together and what those theoretical

orientations were right phenomenal but you weren't like a tactician at the time yet like working in the weeds with people's minds no not yet not yet. Not enough. And then, so then I went. More like role-playing in class or something. Yeah, it was, right? You're about to go on stage. Let's walk through your fears. Yeah. I remember the first time I'll get to the first question in a minute, but the first time that, so before you, before you become licensed, you have to be supervised for 3000 hours. And that's by another psychologist saying, Hey, why did you put your pencil down at minute 22 in the conversation? You know, and

how come you took the conversation this way? Did you miss a, B and C? And so like, there's an intense amount of training that goes into sitting in front of another human being and having them express what's deep within them, right? Their aspirations, their pains, the dark side, the light side. And there's incredible training just to say that for me, there's incredible training for me to say that now at that point, after the 3000 hours, I still didn't know anything. And so the reason that I knew I didn't know anything is because I hadn't been in the trenches yet with people that were masterful, people that had created enough training that they could authentically express what's within themselves. And so,

therein lies why I got started, is that I grew up here in California, and my first sport was surfing. And there's free surfing and there's competitive surfing. There's two types of surfing. And free surfing, I was a good little 15-year there's competitive surfing. There's two types of surfing and free surfing. I was a good little, you know, 15 year old free surfer, meaning when it was just me and mother nature, no problem. Like it was really good, you know, and the man out there, you're right. Like I could figure it out well enough with the boys. Like it was fun.

And then as soon as competition happened, um, and there was people on the beach and those judges and now, yeah, the whole thing was happening that I felt like a shell of myself. And I'm a 15, 16 year old kid at this point, shaking out in the water and, you know, surf that I'm super comfortable in. And there was one day where a surfer passed by me and we were in heat. There's only three guys out in the heat and he paddles by me. Now he's like the heat. And he paddles by me. Now, he's like a grown man. And he paddles by me and he says, Gervais, you got to stop thinking about what could go wrong. And I thought, I said, how the hell does he know what's in my head?

That's it. Like, I couldn't feel my feet. I couldn't feel my body. It was completely disconnected to my board. And so, like a good competitor, he didn't tell me what do yeah yeah he just told me not to think about like all the things that i was worrying about so i sat for a minute and i said okay well if that's the case let me start thinking about what i want to have happen and so i just kind of mused and you know created some imagination about that about what it would feel like to surf

at my best so that was the first introduction looking back with hindsight that i had to sport psychology and it and i got out of that heat and I said, you know, there's something to like how my mind's worked. It's screwed up. My mind's screwed up. Like I can't be myself as soon as there's people watching and judging me, right? And so call it performance anxiety, call it whatever you want. I didn't have command of my mind. And I didn't know there was such a thing as sports psychology, but I knew that the mind and my craft were, there was an intimate link at that point. And so that's what started it, that intersection of pain of not being able to authentically express what was inside of me. And that's what kind of took me down this path. And so you started researching and studying this

while you're in high school? No. Yeah. I wish I was that switched on. No, I mean, I barely got out of high school and I was the first person in my family, you know, to go to college. I started junior college because there was this moment in time when my mom, I specifically remember, she pulled me aside. It was my senior year in high school and she pulled me aside and she said, Mike, we tried. And your father and I, you know, we went to the school of hard knocks and we didn't know how to support you in this way. But at this point in your life, you need to do one of two things. You need to go to junior college and we'll help you there. Or you need to get out and get a job. And I thought- At 18. Yeah, it was like 17, 18. I started school early. And I said, no, I know how to go to school and

surf. So let me just, let me extend like year 12 to 13 and 14. Let me see if I can just play this game a little bit longer. And yeah, so I went to a junior college and it was at that place that I, there was three professors that saw this, you know, grommet. That's what they call young surfers, this little grommet bouncing around school just trying to figure out how to get out of class. Again, I tested in, this is all sounds really unbecoming, but I think there's a good story to it,

is that I tested into remedial math and remedial English. And it's not because I didn't understand the concepts. It's because I didn't understand how to study. And I missed high school, which is in some ways an assault on public high schools. So I missed high school. Literally, I was in the water surfing more than I was in class, it felt like. I tested in remedial math, remedial English.

There was three professors up at this school, Marymount College. And it was a psychologist, a theologian and a philosopher. Those are the three professors. And I'll tell you what, I'd fell in love. They showed me how to fall in love with working to understand the invisible. And it was like, from that point forward, no one ever had to ask me to read another book. That was it. And it just took off for me. Wow. Yeah. It was a catalyst. You had a great catalyst that like finally made you understand the power of learning. Yeah. It was pain and love.

It was those two things. The pain of not being myself and then the love of like this learning that took place. Right. And so I love to share that story. It has very little to do with me. It has to do with, you know, those three professors. Yeah. And so.

Now, was there a moment when um you kept competing and you realized okay now i know what's going on in my mind and i know that i have this anxiety or this fear or whatever it was holding you back and i'm learning how to switch it off so that i can step into my vision or to what i want to create as opposed to what i want what's going to happen wrong was there a moment when that started happening in the water you're like wow it finally started to click yes and no i wish i wish i had that dramatic thing you know and i like i could yeah it's it for me it never quite worked that way it was like this gradual progression and the way i liken it to is i think it's the case for most of us is that you know when you have like a toothache or

you have something that is like aching, there's a pain and then, or hiccups, and then you look back, like time progresses and you go, oh my God, my toothache is gone or my hiccups are gone. Like, this is great. So, this is like this gradual progression, but not this one kind of instantaneous lightning rod moment, at least for me, you know, in my life. So, no, there's this gradual progression where I felt that I was more grounded. I understood because of increased awareness. And then I was, but at the same time, I was learning from these

really bright men and women, some of the best doers in the world. And they were on a very similar journey. And the only difference I had is that they were in the amphitheater doing it. And at this young phase of my life, I just had some theoretical orientation. So early on in my career, I felt like I learned much more than they learned. And then I'm not saying it's different now. I'm still like, I want to be a beginner in everywhere I go. So yeah, so that's kind of the arc, if you will. Sure, sure.

What do you think is the main thing that holds people back from high performance when it matters the most? Well, I think there's two parts to that question. You add the when it matters the most, and that's a really important, nuanced, esoteric phrase. And I love this phrase, when it matters most, because if you listen to ESPN or you listen to Fox Sports or you listen to any of those types of shows, they'll say that big game, defining play, defining moment. And there really isn't such a thing. And so when it matters most is now.

It's not later. It's not the Super Bowl. It's not your Everest. It's not the pitch that you're going to give to a VC firm. That's not the moment. The moment is now. And it's always now. And it's now again. And if we are present, it's now again. the one you have now. Because again, this is very esoteric. If we were to strip away your ability and my ability to live in this present moment, then we don't have life, right? It's the absence of life. But what happens for most of us is that if you think about this moment a little bit like a raindrop, like it's moving, okay? And eventually it'll crash, death, if you will. But like this raindrop that's moving,

we can be on the edges of the raindrop or we can be right in the center. We don't ever leave our raindrop, our unique raindrop. But when we go to the edges of the raindrop, it's like we are not fully in the present moment. And so, what gets in the way? Anxiety. You know, worry. What do they think of me? What if it goes wrong? Do I have what it takes? Am I going to embarrass myself? Am I going to let people down? So that anxiety is a real condition. It's estimated that, well, the research suggests that 15% of Americans suffer, and that's the word from anxiety. The estimate is probably more like 30% suffer and it's a mental disorder

and anxiety by definition is the excessive worry about what could go wrong. So that's at the root. That's at the center. What's the opposite of anxiety? Groundedness. Yeah, a sense of poise and presence. Focusing on what could go right.

Yeah, well, not even that, but like, yes, right? So if anxiety is worrying about what could go wrong, an anecdote for that experience is focusing on what could go right, what could be fantastic. Living in gratitude. That's right. Yeah. Which obviously you're familiar with, but the essence of it is coming back to the center of that raindrop, that esoteric thing I'm talking about, like that falling raindrop

to time your ability to be right in the center. And what does that mean? That you're grounded, you're present, your mind is on time with what's happening. And so you've heard great athletes talk about the game slows down. It doesn't slow down. That's not what happens is that our mind becomes fully syncopated at the speed of life and we're on time. And so when we're finally on time, it's such a relief. Like, oh my God, this is the speed of light. This is amazing.

And so we don't ever have the power to slow down time. We just have the power to increase our ability to be on time. Right? On this moment, then the next moment, then the next moment.

The worried mind is behind time or ahead of time. Right? And so there are times to do, there are moments where we need to think about the future, I mean, for sure, but it's the excessive worry about what could go wrong. And I think that that would be, so it's fear and fatigue are the two kind of cripplers of potential. And so, if we get the fear thing right, we have a relationship with fear, and we look for moments to challenge our relationship with fear, I can talk a lot.

I'd love to talk about that with you, and the other is getting the fatigue thing right, and we've come in modern times to believe that we need to do more to be more, and it's broken, right? It's fundamentally broken. The idea is that we need to be more and let the doing flow from there. Be yourself, be your authentic self, be here now, you know, be grateful, be present, and let the doing flow from those, that orientation is a completely different model that,

you know, it's like I'm spending my life efforts, I think, working to share that and to help some of the best doers and thinkers in the world to reorientate what got them good, but is slowing them down from being their absolute personal best. What's slowing them down? Fear and fatigue still? Yeah. Well, the idea, the framework, the psychological framework that I need to do more to be more. And that's born out of anxiety. Not doing enough yeah could be doing more in the trick stressing about yeah flat out and the trick though there is that that that'll get people good

i need to do more damn i miss that jumper how am i gonna miss that jumper let's keep it like you know drive them to be practice more to yeah yeah. Yeah. So that's this, um, you know, it's like just enough anxiety will get you good, but it will slow you down for being your absolute best at some point, you know? So it's tricky. Yeah. Right. There's an edge. Cause you need to be driven to train and practice with that edge in order to be great at something.

That's right. Yeah. You know, if you're just doing it for fun, it's different. But to be a winner, to be a champion in sports, let's say, or to be a great performer on stage, musician, whatever, you've got to put in the time. Yeah, and I think that-

Deliberate time, right? Well, yeah, it's nauseatingly how truly challenging it is to focus deeply. Yeah. And it's rare. You know, the natural state of our mind is like a drunk monkey. And for some people, it's double-fisted. It's all over the place.

It's, you know, so emotionally erratic. Good thing I don't drink. Otherwise, I'd be messed up. Did you have a run with that? I've never been drunk in my life. Stop it. Never been drunk. Is there a reason for that?

I'll have like a Bailey's on ice every now and then, like a couple times a year but i've never felt like a buzz or anything um i think when i went in high school first i went to a private boarding school so there was no you weren't allowed to drink and i was just kind of like i don't really care some kids were but i was in the dorm and didn't really have access to it and didn't care what were you focused on sports i mean my vision was to be the best athlete i could be and to go you know get a college scholarship play play professionally and so when i went to college i remember when i graduated high school all my siblings were like you're gonna be this drunk jock like we already know it and i think out of spite i was like i'm gonna bet you i'm not gonna

have a single sip of alcohol my entire career in college there you go so i don't have a single sip of alcohol my entire career in college. There you go. So I didn't have a single sip. I went to so many college parties after football games, just crazy drunken parties. I was never even tempted. I think because I just had in my mind, my teammates are losing their edge. The more they drink and the sloppier they are, they weren't recovered for the next day. And it was holding them back the whole week

and, you know, performance. So for me, I was just like, I need every edge. I was just, I didn't have the speed, the strength, the skill as everyone else. I was like, I need the mental edge. Yeah, there you go. And, you know, if being hung over is a significant problem to being consistently great,

like that becomes problematic. And so I had a similar experience too right and mine was born a little bit differently that i had a family of addiction yes right so it was in my family and i saw it and i said i'm not going down that path yeah so it's easy to repeat that when one feels like it's not enough one drink feels like it's not enough but a thousand's you know no what's the saying uh one's too one's too thousand's not enough. So there's like this craving that I felt early on to it. And I said, I said,

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, which I'm so thankful that I had such dysfunction

that I was able to witness. But I knew that if I'm doing what my boys are doing, that I'm not getting up in the morning surfing. Yeah. So forget about it. No,

you're sleeping in here. I love it. Exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. So fear and anxiety. no, no, fear and fatigue. Fear and it. No. You're sleeping in here. I love it. Exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. So fear and anxiety. So. No, no.

Fear and fatigue. Fear and fatigue. Sorry. Why? So it's hard to perform if we're fatigued physically and emotionally, right? But why do we fear so much about what could go wrong? What other people think about us? Who we're going to let down?

That we're not worthy enough. Good enough. Why do we fear that? It's a great question. So much. Yeah, it's a really great question. For our whole life. Yeah.

So there's some biological things we can take a look at, and then there's also psychological, right? And then so it's the interaction of those two. Biologically, our brain, as best as we think, and it's three pounds of silly putty that sits in our skull that's more complicated than, you know, like the brightest minds in neuroscience are still amazed by how our brain works. And so, but we think that our brain is designed to scan the world and find what's dangerous, right? And so, our ancestors passed that gift on to us. Your

lineage passed that gift on to you that they were able to survive and so how survive way back in ancient times that they could scan the world and easily discern how to be ready between now let me say it more more eloquently they could scan the world and find what was dangerous or what was threatening so that they wouldn't be eaten eaten by the saber-toothed tiger as the story goes so that they wouldn't be eaten, eaten by the saber-toothed tiger as the story goes, right? Or they wouldn't eat something bad or they wouldn't, whatever, protect themselves. That's right.

So, and then, so then not only was nature dangerous and all the elements in nature, but other humans became dangerous to each other. So, now what we've created is the ability, the heightened ability to read microexpressions. And microexpressions are the small squinting of the eyes, the heightened ability to read micro-expressions. And micro-expressions are the small squinting of the eyes, the frontalis muscles between the eyes. And when those squint or don't move, it's a sense of threat, right? Because we don't know what's happening from that person. And so, if you got this ancient brain that's programmed beautifully to find what's dangerous, and we scanned in an undisciplined way

our environment around us, we're gonna find dangerous things. And in modern times, we're not chased by saber tooth anymore. The new modern saber tooth are other people's opinions. And so we're well conditioned from an early age and this next generation is gonna be even more well conditioned

with Insta highlight reels for everything. My life is better than yours. I'm going to show you via a snap picture. Is that, you know, so we've got this real challenge that to pursue a path of our personal best, we have to override our DNA. That's hard to do. That's really hard to do.

It requires deep commitment to training. And that's what psychology, the optimal opportunities that psychology offers us is just that how to train our minds to override our dna and to use the smaller parts of our brain to scan the world and find opportunity how can we train our minds every single day throughout the day to do that yeah overcome this fear what are the things that we could be doing i could i'll i will not i could i will rattle off as many as you want to hear like tactics and then i also want to put a small little asterisk next to this is that the tactic alone is not enough right it's the stitching of the tactics it's the stitching of the mental skills training to each other and to one's personal philosophy.

So without a personal philosophy, it's like we end up just trying all these different things to get better. But what are we getting better at? What other people want us to be? So there's a fundamental piece of work first. Got it. What would be your personal philosophy? I'll share mine. Cool.

I've spent a lot of time with it. And I'll tell, if I could tell a story of how it worked, I think it will harden it a little bit. Is that, so I needed a mentor when I was growing up and I'm thankful. What's up, Gary? Like I'm thankful for Gary. He helped me out in so many different ways, even currently today. And so one day he says, hey, Mike, I want to introduce you to my mentor. Great. I didn't know there was such a thing as like a grand mentor. Like, am I ready? And so, you know, it was this moment. I said, okay, here we go. And it was this, but to my surprise, it was this small, you know, three-bedroom, two-bath home. And it was well manicured. And it was this pleasant, like 78, 82-year-old woman comes out. And I was just so pleasantly surprised, like, okay,

this is going to get good. Because she just had that sense of wise woman. And it's the setting that you would imagine. The shag carpet was a little bit long. The drapes were just a little bit, you know, outdated. And so we sat at the table and she's pouring me tea and she says, you know, welcome. And so we're interested to meet you. And then we sat down and she said, so tell me what you're about. I said, okay, well, the things that are most interest well okay let me start this way and she looked at me and she looked at my mentor and she said I thought you said he was ready I said oh my I am I I am ready like what wait wait no no no I want to answer that and she

grabbed my tea and she said you know when you're ready sweetie I'd like to share this tea with you yeah so I was like super embarrassed in that moment. Like I thought I let my, my mentor down and you know, it was like this really intense experience. Wow. How old were you? I was at that point. Um, it was right after it was like 26, 27, somewhere in that range. And so I didn't know what to do. And so it was this awkward moment, but I knew that I had, I was not prepared to even answer the most basic question. Who are you? And so that's where, that's where I just want to anchor that because I think that that captures what most of us feel like a lot. Most people don't feel like they know who they are. Yeah.

And so I had this dramatic moment for me, but you know, I think it's a really important process to go through. So let's call it a personal philosophy, but then let's extract one, one level out from that. The greatest and the most influential people across the globe are very clear about their philosophy. The greatest movers and shakers and change makers are spiritual leaders and political leaders for the most part. And now we're starting to see business leaders to do that.

What was Confucius' philosophy? What was Buddha's philosophy? What was Jesus' philosophy? They're really clear. Jesus was, and I want to oversimplify a beautiful set of traditions, but Jesus was more about love and service. Buddha was more about, you know, that all people are suffering. And then so let's work through compassion to live with love and kindness. What was Martin Luther King Jr.'s? Dr. King Jr.'s was about equality, you know?

Malcolm X, equality, totally different tone, totally different approach. Mother Teresa, Helen Keller. What was Helen Keller? She's like, okay, I'm gonna go for it. And like, I deserve to, totally different approach. Mother Teresa, Helen Keller. What was Helen Keller? She's like, okay, I'm going to go for it. And like, I deserve to be educated as well. She changed the educational system. So, the most influential people were very clear why, because they lined up their thoughts, their words, and actions to the thing that matters most to them. And that's what a philosophy is about. Everybody already has one. You have one, I have one. Whether we could articulate it at knife point

in a dark alley, totally different element, right? And so I think that that's a nice litmus test. Like, could you get it out in front of a deranged person who's got a knife to your throat? Like, are you that clear what you stand for? And do you have your personal philosophy? So that's the litmus test for folks I work with. And I'll share mine.

It's every day is an opportunity to create a living masterpiece. And so there's optimism embedded in there. There's creative juices embedded in there. And then there's this idea of a living masterpiece. And so when I met Coach Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks about six years ago, six, seven years ago one of our first conversations it was it was over dinner a mutual friend put us together and we had this really wonderful conversation and it was born out of like what is your philosophy

so he had been on the same similar journey I should say where he was fired from two head coach jobs in the NFL yeah and on on the time he was fired. So from pain creates change. Uncomfortableness is how we grow, but change is how we, I'm sorry, uncomfortableness is how we grow, but pain is why we change. So he experienced pain and said, if I get another chance, I'm going to do it exactly the way that is authentic to me, but I got to figure out what that is. So he just went and scratched down on, you know, multiple pads, spiral, you know, old school spiral notebooks, just wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote, took a second pass at it and said, what are the words that keep showing up? Circled those words, wrote more about those words. And that's how it eventually

spilled out of him. His philosophy is always compete. Always compete for what you say? Always compete to be a great dad, to be a great Always compete to be a great dad, to be a great coach, to be a great friend, to be a great partner, like always compete. And so he says at his core, he's a competitor and he's always trying to become better. And so he's built his whole life around that and including the Seattle Seahawks and USC before that. So yeah, so philosophy is really important to us. And so that would be the most significant investment first. How can someone create their own philosophy? There are three ways to do it.

Okay, so now we're into some tactics, right? Which I think is really important as well. So the tactics, there's three ways to get clear. Be around wise people and have conversations about philosophy and wisdom, right? Be around them. If you don't know one, go try to,

they're rare, but you know, maybe pray about it. Maybe talk about like find wise people in your lives or become one. Yeah. Okay. Or you can watch videos of them or read their books to get started, you know?

Yeah. And yes, start down that path. Nice, nice job, you know? And there's something about being in their presence. If you can, that is different, you know? job. And there's something about being in their presence, if you can, that is different.

Of course, of course. Okay, and there's synagogues and churches and there's folks that you can find these people. They don't have to be spiritual. They can be secular as well. So be around wise people. Write, journal. There's something about forcing words

out of your native tongue, all the words of your native tongue to write down the words and to have a forcing function to choose words that matter. Like there's something about that. And then the last, the third is, and all of them are equally important, is listening. So mindfulness practice. So listening to, it's one of the most ancient mindfulness traditions is asking yourself, it's called contemplative mindfulness, is ask yourself the question, who am I? And just go down that path. Who am I? And you'll learn. You'll learn some ugly things. You'll learn some wonderful things.

And you'll really learn who you are. And so, those are three ways, right? And then there's another easy way. I don't know if it's on our website or whatever, but we've developed a philosophy primer, you know, and I don't think it's up on our website but those would be the three tactics that get closer yeah you know and then if i if i do you want me to go one click deeper you know if mechanically what i would suggest you do is write down a list of all the people that really inspire you like who are those people just write down that list and you don't have to know them then write to the right of that column for each person. Write down the characteristics that they embody, that inspiration comes from.

So, if it was like, let's say Martin Luther King Jr. And you say, you know, courage or intelligence or people person or conviction. Okay, those words matter. And then as you go down your list, you'll start to see some characteristics. You'll start to see some stuff. And then once you go down your list, you'll start to see some characteristics. You'll start to see some stuff. Yeah. And then once you're clear, I don't know, we talk about going from clarity to conviction. And that's the entire arc of mental training is first you got to get some clarity and then

invest in your craft and invest in your mind so that you can live a life of conviction. In any environment. You can be about you in any environment. And as as humans there's only three things we can train everything falls within one of these three buckets we can train our body you know that professional sport you know and and has done great to show us what that looks like you can train your craft and we all have a craft right like athletics or arts or music it's easy to see that you know your your craft. And we all have a craft, right? Like athletics or arts or music. It's easy to see that, you know, your craft of interviewing and writing and many more probably. But there's also other crafts that you have and that we all have. It might be things that we're not paid for,

but we're passionate about. Okay. So, it could be parenting. It could be a guitar. It could be lots of different things. Okay. So you can train your body, you can train your craft, and then you can train your mind. That's it. Those are the only three. So we don't see training the mind as being extra. Who's got extra time nowadays? There's no extra. It's fundamental to becoming your very best is training one of those three elements. And if you train all three of them, it's an accelerated path. What's the best way someone could train their mind on a daily basis if they have 30 minutes a day yeah good so start with your philosophies that's that would be mental training right get clear down your philosophy that's the

first part of that out yeah and that's lonely deep deep work and that might take years or could pop right spill right out of you you know right so start now um yeah the the Dalai Lama has something, or it was actually a former Dalai Lama said, enlightenment takes lifetimes or the next moment. So pay attention. So that's the first. And then the second, I would say, the second largest pillar would be to invest in mindfulness. I'm happy to talk about that, but you can train confidence. You can train calm.

You can train your ability to be focused in the present moment. train confidence you can train calm you can train your ability to be focused in the present moment you can train optimism which is an accelerant is an accelerant to mental toughness i know that you have great value for training gratitude and so martin seligman did a wonderful piece of research out of upenn that just writing down at the end of the day, three amazing things that you experienced has a significant impact in life satisfaction. It can impact your relationships with others. If you are depressed, people that came into his study stabilized their depression. People that were not depressed that came into this study after, I think it was one month,

three month and six month follow-up, they had a significant overall increase in their overall life satisfaction. It's as simple as writing down three amazing things, right? And so that's one way to train optimism and gratitude. So there's lots of ways to do it. And I don't know if you want a specific tactic or- Mindfulness, do you mean meditation or you mean other type of practice? So mindfulness, yeah, you could substitute the word meditation for mindfulness.

Yeah, you could substitute the word meditation for mindfulness. Meditation for us conjures up a term that there's a lot of stigma attached to. And that stigma is changing. But I spend most of my time in very rugged and hostile environments. And to talk about mindfulness in those environments is a stretch. You know, although, no, I'm sorry. To talk about meditation is the stretch. Mindfulness feels like, okay, mindfulness training, what is that? What's about increasing your awareness? Oh, yeah, that's important. Meditation has that all other baggage.

So, is it the same thing? Close. Mindfulness is a state and a skill. Meditation is the skill training mechanism for it. And so, let's just for simplicity call it mindfulness training. And I mean, do you want to go deeper? Sure. Well, if the definition of mindfulness is the ability to be here now, to be where your feet are without judgment, without the noise, the idea is to get to the signal. And the signal is always now. And to gate out the noise. I mean, engineers right now are going, yeah, that's what it's about.

Signal to noise ratio. But that's what it is for our minds as well. And remember, our natural state of our mind is like a drunken monkey. So a disciplined mind, a still mind, is rare. And mindfulness is increasing your ability to recognize when your mind is away from the present moment and bringing it back. And it's not about not having thoughts. That's an old thought that most people are recognizing that that's not the case.

But mindfulness is really about once you recognize that your mind has wandered from a particular state or there's judgment around it, to gently bring it back to now. And that now can be a breath. It could be the next thought, whatever, right? And so there's two types of mindfulness, single point mindfulness training, and then the contemplative style. Single point mindfulness is as simple as focusing on one thing for an extended period of time. So master the inhale, then the exhale, and then master the inhale again, and then the exhale. So that's just focusing on your breathing, right? One breath at a time for, let's call it six, seven, eight minutes. That's the minimal effective dose to get some

therapeutic effect from it. And then the optimal dose is 20 minutes a day, according to research and science. Focusing on single point. Just single point. And then so on your inhale, your mind will wander, right? And an inhale takes about four seconds. So just the inhale, your mind will wander. And then once you notice that it's wandered, great. That's the moment of awareness. And then just bring it back gently, swiftly, quickly.

And so you're training the skill of refocus. You're training the skill of awareness. That's single point mindfulness. It could be a dot on the wall. It could be a mantra. It could be a sound. It could be your breath. It could be lots of things, right?

That's single point. And then the other is contemplative which is it involves some sort of relaxation strategy to relax yourself just like the single point and then just watch just watch what happens watch your thoughts you know watch where thought a how it transforms to b to to b1 to b2 to three, to maybe over to C, and just watch without critiquing or judging and just go on that ride. And that's kind of the second tactic to mindfulness. Who are some of the most impressive performers you've worked with that you're allowed to talk about?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. There's so many that I would love to share with you. Yeah. Well, I'll do one that's nameless right now, and then I'll do a couple that have been public about it. And this is one of the challenges of being licensed as a psychologist, is that we create an environment between client and myself. We create an environment that is unlike anything else, where the sanctuary of trust and the depth of the conversation that we go in are like no other normal conversation so out of respect and trust for the code that we've established that i don't share names in that way and but some some have been public and they've shared names and so i'm happy to talk about within scope of what i can talk about there but there. But there's an artist that I'm working with right now

and a musician producer that has had, when he worked last year, 50 nights, and every night that he books, it's 1.6 million a night. So a significant global influencer from a music perspective. Oh, no, no, no. You know his music, everyone listening. significant global influencer from a music perspective oh no no no yeah he's you know his music everyone listening but what's impressive is that it seems like they are from a different

planet but they're not they're they're just like you and i they're they're humans that have the same exact ambitions the same exact fears and worries, the same relationship struggles that we both have. And they have just figured out how to be more attuned to the signal than the noise. The signal meaning what? The present moment that is aligned with his philosophy and also matches the vision of how he'd like to see himself in the future, the vision of what he'd like to see.

And one of the great psychologists of our era, his name is Dr. Albert Bandora. And Dr. Albert Bandora introduced so many really influential theories about how the mind works in optimization. One of his theories is self-efficacy. Efficacy is a word for power. And part of being an efficacious or powerful person

is that we have clarity of how we would like our future to be yeah it doesn't mean it's gonna happen now yeah right like because you got it back in an incredible work but right imagination of having a vision of what that is and then back into how to make that happen this sounds so like it sounds so simple and you know psychologists and folks for years have been talking about this. It really is powerful, though. It's a really powerful tactic to do. So anyways, this musician has the same fragility that you and I have,

and at the same time is more attuned to the signal. And that's who am I, my philosophy, where am I going, my vision, and then great awareness of my thoughts, words, and actions lining up to make that work. So they're better attuned to signal. Okay. Now, I'd be remiss to not include two world-class performers that I've learned so much from, Felix Baumgartner.

And so, you might not recognize the name, some people might, but he was the athlete in the Red Bull Stratos Project. And so the Red Bull Stratos Project, it was back in 2012, where a team of scientists and an athlete, Felix, were working to sort out what would happen if a human were to jump from the edges of space without a capsule. It was a life-changing experience for everyone involved crazy i remember watching it on youtube or something or wherever streaming

yeah yeah it was what was your experience watching it um my experience first was like man this guy must be in a lonely isolated space right now physically but also mentally i'm sure there was earpiece and you know he had communication radio and everything but the place your mind goes with that much time like the more you rise and the pressure you're feeling and all the worries and fears of what could go wrong and feeling like i'm alone in this situation even though there's millions of people watching and i have people in my ear or whatever it was i don't know if it was an earpiece or if there was a radio communication. I'm assuming there was. Yeah. Even with that, they're however many miles away from me right now and I'm by

myself here. No one can save me or help me essentially. If something goes wrong, it's over. So the amount of fear, pressure, uncertainty, insecurity, what could go wrong? What if the whole world sees me die or fail? All of that. And so I was just wondering how he was able to train for that. Yeah. So, okay. Great insight because the loneliness that comes from pushing on your edges is a real human experience. And it's so hard to push right on the edge of instability, psychological, emotional instability. It's really hard to do. For a long time, we thought we could get people there from physical exertion, get their heart rate pounding. That's not quite it.

Yeah, I see how you're responding to that. It's pushing to the edges of emotional instability, emotional capacity. And so, if you don't practice that, you cannot become the best version. And it's a little bit like a balloon, right? So, you blow air into a balloon and it stretches. And then there's more space inside the the balloon to play okay and

then it contracts and if you blow more air into it and that blowing of air is pushing to the capacity of the balloon two breaths it's like okay there's even more space but there's lots more to go right there's 24 what if it pops that's that's the interesting thing yeah when's it gonna pop how much can it go it actually doesn't yeah you know so we have this fear about like psychologically cracking now that can happen it can happen i'm putting an asterisk next to it can't but it is so rare that a person in so extreme circumstance such extreme circumstances that a person mentally has a breakdown it's actually more rare than we think what we're actually feeling most of the time for people is this chronic level of stress where we feel overwhelmed, but we're not ready

to break. That's not what's happening. We're just exhausted. We're overwhelmed. Yeah, fatigued. And in modern times, we're not sleeping enough. Yeah, we're emotionally overwhelmed. Our nutrition is bad or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Relationships, everything. On the world stage, we don't talk about working harder. That's a given. Everyone on the world stage we don't talk about working harder yeah that's a given everyone on the world stage is like grinding you know at a world-class clip we spend more time on the science and art of recovery you know to get that right so that we can wake up tomorrow and form high again be ready you know for for what pushing against the limits physically and emotionally yeah you know that's it okay so back to yeah felix back to felix yeah um yeah he changed he changed the way the world understands what's possible and he pushed right up against his limits now this was like a multiple year

project about halfway through the project he reached a limit where he became claustrophobic and he wasn't able to be in his space suit anymore and that's where I was asked to be part of the project could we work with his mind to extinguish fear wow no pressure and I look back

in that experience and all the bright minds and the scientists that were part of it beautiful experience and yes we successfully helped Felix extinguish his fear of being in the suit so that he could have clarity and command of his mind to execute a lifelong dream that he had as well as change the nature of what the rest of us think is possible yeah yeah what were some of the things you guys did well there was yeah so all the stuff philosophy and vision that we just talked about that was really get his philosophy on his uh on who he is on who he is yeah you know like did he have that before well we all have it but could we get it out under knife point you know

and so ideally you want to try to get it down to a page and then try to get down to 25 words and then a sentence yeah or maybe three words or whatever you know so what did he come up with yeah that's not public okay yeah that's a great question i wish it was there's going to be a documentary coming up um i'll share that yeah so it's coming out soon so i'm sure he'll share that assuming it's breaking limits or something you know yeah it'll be you know what i mean yeah yeah well anything's possible you know what yeah something you didn't say it but i'm saying yeah that's good and so um okay so that was part of it and then the other part is um if we need to extinguish fear Yeah, that's good. And so, okay, so that was part of it. And then the other part is

if we need to extinguish fear. So anyone that's- Before we go there, when he got clear on that, did a lot of his fears start to fade then or was there so much more that needed to happen? Yeah, there's still more, right? Then we need to actually train the mind.

So getting clarity is really great. It's the foundation. Yes. And then it's like the two anchors, clarity and, I'm sorry, philosophy and vision are two really important pillars or anchors in the system. And then the space between clarity and conviction is the place of training the mind.

So we spent time identifying the thoughts that got in his way. And then we spent time on strategies on how to change those thoughts to, or work with those thoughts to have more optimal, productive, progressive thoughts. Can you give an example of,

um, maybe not for example, general example. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, I'm afraid I'm going to die this shit again.

You know, like that's a thought, like I got to do this shit again. That's one, something like that. Or another one would be like, Oh my God, the pressure's really on today. That's one, something like that. Or another one would be like, oh my God, the pressure's really on today.

Or something like, man, I'm going to let some people down. It's all the stuff that we've already talked about. But it's increasing the awareness of that destructive, negative, counterproductive thought. So if we're forever going to look bad or if we're going to let someone down, what's something we could do to reframe that? Well, okay, So go back to your philosophy. It probably doesn't have anything to do with others, like living to their standards.

It probably has to do with caring about others, not caring what they think about you, somewhere in that range. So there's this necessary work I think that is required for most of us, which is a decoupling between what we do and who we are. And if you can pull those two things apart and no longer be bound by I am what I do, and if you can pull those two things apart, then there's great freedom. And it's the freedom to say, you know, I can love you and not give a shit what you think about me. the freedom to say, you know, I can love you and not give a shit what you think about me. And if you can find that space to love other people as best as you possibly can, which is can only happen by the way that you love yourself, right? So our relationship with ourself is really important.

So I love you and I don't care what you think about me anymore. Incredible freedom on that side. So we needed to get some of that. incredible freedom on that side. So we needed to get some of that. Um, and the other part was, um, recognizing that the, the counterproductive thoughts, having a way to work with those thoughts to get over to something that is more productive, more positive. And that sounds all wonderful, but the way that you do that is that you've got to be credible with what you say to yourself. You credible, you can't say to yourself, like I'm a tough mfr and you're not if you haven't done the work yeah you know like what was your first sport i mean was it i played everything football i mean

i played basketball football yeah so let's just college and then yeah that's what i thought so let's say i play with usa handball team right now still oh yeah i knew that yeah yeah that's really cool that's really cool okay so let's let's go i hand coordination or something you know and if i say yeah i'm freaking i'm good at that now and then you say oh okay cool let's go play i just i'm not i'm not as good as you and i'm certainly not as good as i could be i haven't trained it so i'm gonna get exposed so i can't say to myself yeah yeah i'm gonna take him down i can't i can't say that fake it you can't there's there was some ways you can fake to make it but you got to put, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to take him down. I can't say that. You can't fake it. You can't. There was some ways you could fake it till you make it, but you got to put on the reps. Yeah.

There was some idea. There's some scant research on fake it till you make it. I just cannot nod my head to that idea. Yeah. It's like changing your physical body posture does not alone change your thoughts. The awareness that you've got a bad posture and the awareness that you've got negative thoughts, that's the game. Increasing the awareness of what's happening inside of you.

And then so it's a two-part game, awareness and then the skill to refocus. Okay. And then so if you're going to say that I'm a stud at something or I'm good at something or whatever, like I've got what it takes takes then what we say is for every epic thought that you're going to have write down at least three reasons that give you the right to say that thought so we call it back and practice every day for two hours because i do this because i've had i've done this i've done that like i've owned it here i've owned it there and if i've done that i can do this right and so it's like you got to back it up. Yeah. But just saying it to yourself,

you know, thoughts are invisible. So they're hard to work with. So write it down, you know, get it out of your head, externalize that, that hard drive that is so powerful for all of us. Our thoughts,

our mind is invisible. So get it out of your head. So, so we did that. Some of that work, we did a bunch of breathing work. We did a bunch of mindfulness work and and um just re-anchored him to like how is he going to tell this part of his story so that's a nice way to kind of think about

in the future how are you going to tell the story to yourself this moment in time this phase of your life how would you tell it to your unborn son yeah you know whatever like how will you tell the story and so that helps to shape and govern behavior as well. Right. That I failed miserably or that you. Well, that I got scared and I couldn't do it. That's okay. But that just needs to be your authentic story. Or, you know, so there's, in high stakes environments, there's only a few outcomes for story. I trained and I backed off.

Right. Because of the fear. Like I got to the edge and then I backed off. That's one story. Another story is I trained ridiculously. I got to the edge, and I jumped, and I died. You don't get to tell the story, but that is the story. I went for it.

I went for it. The third story is that I trained ridiculously. I got to the edge, and I hesitated. I worked it out, and I committed, and I hesitated. I worked it out and I committed and I, you know, it was successful, you know? So there's only like in binary situations,

there's only three outcomes. And I think his situation, well, I think to all of ours, actually. Yeah. The stakes are really high in life. You only get one pass at it.

As we know, as we can confirm, there might be multiple eyes. I, you know, I don't know that science. There's lots of traditions that would suggest that. So we get one go at it and we only get one go at this moment. So the work really is the stakes are really high. If we only get 1,440

minutes a day, that's it. That's all we get. And then once one is spent, you can't get it back. So the stakes are super high. Life is happening. It's happening fast. And we're really busy as a human race. So figuring out how to be more present more often, the stakes could not be higher. And so that's why training the mind to be here now feels fundamental. It doesn't feel like it's extra. And if you can't train your mind to be in this present moment, you cannot access your craft, the thing that you care most about, your mind to be in this present moment, you cannot access your craft. The thing that you care most about parenting or business or communication or sport, whatever it might be. You know, there's people that I feel like they're isolated in their minds a lot.

They feel alone. Even when there's people around or if there's a team around them, they feel alone and isolated. And especially when there's not a team around them, you know, Felix had a team, but no one was actually physically touching him. And like, you got this. He was by himself in a capsule, right? For how long was the ride up? Yeah, five plus hours. Five hours. So for those that feel alone, like they're about to go out on stage

or they're alone in an interview or they're alone in whatever game, tennis match where you're just by yourself there and everyone's watching how can we is it just like what you said it's a little bit of breathing the philosophy you know reframing the thoughts is that how we can continue to make sure that when these high stakes moments are happening obviously every moment is high stake but when it's like yeah the whole world is watching high stakes how can we i don't know just overcome those moments of isolation and fear in that moment i want to be really thoughtful about that because it's it's a really important conversation to have and the first part of

deconstructing that is that just because people are watching if you haven't done the work to say i love you and at the same time, I don't care what you think of me. I'm not going to be beholden to what my imagination tells me you might be thinking of me. That's the first thing. It's not caring, caring, but not caring. No, the first thing I think is to genuinely love other people, right? To start there. No matter what they think of you. Yeah. No matter what, like what like that's not that's you never really know anyways like right as much as we're having a really cool conversation now and let's say we did this conversation every day for the rest of our lives and we really went under and under and

under the surface it still i think would be almost impossible for you to know me i don't think it's possible for another human to really know another human and i've been in my relationship with my wife for you know 20 i should know this like married 22 years but dated before that for a number of years like for you know sub 30 years and it's still it's still a mystery that's unfolding so to really love another person not but not care what they think of you. That's the first part. So when you do that, you find more freedom and that freedom to go on stage, if you will, to use that analogy.

It just changes the nature of the moment because it moves from a threat-based experience to an opportunity-based experience. What's the opportunity? To express the ideas that you care a lot about, and hold that opportunity with high regard because you're asking other people to be present with you on the ideas that you have found to be important. And then there's a high responsibility to be able to articulate as clearly as you can, you know, with regard for other people's attention. So that's the first thing that I would suggest to do.

That's great. Yeah. And then so how do we know how to love others? We have to figure out how to love ourselves. And it sounds really soft. And I spend my time in the most alpha competitive, rugged environments. Seattle Seahawks are full alpha competitors. And I've been fortunate enough to learn and be part of that ecosystem for a number of years with Coach Carroll. And Felix Baumgartner,ner alpha male the most intense human being that you'll find if it doesn't work with those types of people carrie leash carrie lee walsh jennings you know um four

time olympian gold medalist you know unbelievable alpha competitor and it it keeps coming back to the relationship you have with yourself first so the dialogue and the conversations you have with yourself first. So the dialogue and the conversations we have with ourself are really important. We are our best coach or our worst coach. We are our best friend or our worst friend. We are an asset to ourselves or we are a debilitator to our future. And so that's where it begins.

And without awareness, every world-class athlete, and that's a huge word I just said, every, every world-class athlete and i'm that's a huge word i just said every every world-class athlete that really is interested in pursuing their best they have great awareness there are knuckleheads that eat mcdonald's that show up they're freaks of nature they don't train they usually don't sustain that for you know a decade of time it's like a couple years and then something happens yeah yeah i a thousand percent agree with you you know and but those that are deeply pursuing their personal best awareness is part of the mix yeah and that's a trainable skill yeah yeah mindfulness is the way

to train it who's the most impressive uh trained mind human that you've seen i don't i don't want to answer that. You know, they're saying, is it me? You know, like I, I'll tell you this statement. Humans are amazing. People are amazing. Um, we are not fragile, uh, psychologically and emotionally. We can do amazing things. Um, and so I've got stories in my head right now of an athlete who I said, I asked, what was your hardest moment in your life? He said, you know, you'd think it was when my mom was chasing me around the house with a two by four nails in it to kill me, that that would be the hardest time, but it wasn't the hardest time of my life. And he's a, he's an elite athlete right now. The

hardest time in my life is repeatedly showing up and all of my things and my family's things were on the lawn because we're evicted again that was the hardest time yeah so to be able to go from those places to be able to you know i don't know who cares what they drive but they drive the nicest cars wonderful houses but private jets yeah but to tap into their potential and to know what it feels like to be an artist of craft, of words, or movement, people are not fragile. We have fragile body parts. Body parts break. And some are so intense that they could take life.

But for the most part, we are really robust, highly resilient. Is it possible to reach our potential or is it always expanding? I love that question. The word potential is problematic, right? Because it's a crippler for many people. Oh, you have so much potential. Uh-oh.

It's like the pressure's on now, right? Yeah. Well, because of the way that we've just interpreted what that means. And that pressure- The stuff where you can do, go do it. Oh, he's not doing what he could do or she could do. That's right.

They could do. But there's like this thought that comes with it like, oh, that person sees potential in me, so I don't want to let that person down. So that's why we've got to go back to that decoupling, who I am from what I do. Also the decoupling of loving other people and not caring what they think.

But when somebody sees potential as it can be a great gift, if we say, yes, there is more, show me how, you know, like, what do you see? Well, I see this. What do you see Mike? Oh, I never saw that. Really? You think that's possible? I mean, we have to be around people like that to bring the best out of us to really challenge us to say, that's not good enough. I love you, but that's not good enough. That's what a great coach does. Yeah. I'm sure coach Carroll's doing that constantly. Like we gotta be better every day. How do we step up? Yeah. The Seattle Seahawks under coach Carroll's guidance is a relationship based organization. We produce football and some, some alpha alpha

tough minded people, right? But we are a relationship based organization. It begins with our relation that there are each person's relationship with themselves, and then so we can have a great relationship with others. Because to do extraordinary things, we don't do it alone. There's always other people, but most of the time the execution is alone. Yeah, so Felix was alone. That loneliness that you were talking about before is a real deal.

It's one of the six, we call it the six dimensions of being human. Like every human has that place, that recess in their experience where they are truly lonely. Going back to that thought that I'm not sure that others can really know all of you. So there is an aloneness. We come into the world alone,

we leave it alone. We're not sure what happens, you know, in between after death, but that loneliness and tapping into it and feeling it and knowing it and being familiar with it, that's a very powerful experience to do. And I know it's super heavy, but it's really important. I remember I used to be really insecure growing up

and scared to be alone. I hated being by myself. And when I was like 15, 16, 17, and then in my early 20s, I was just like, I am going to conquer this because I just hate the feeling of feeling scared or like no one cares or whatever, feeling alone. And so I said, okay, I'm going to go out as often as I can by myself. I'm going to go to dinner by myself, a movie by myself. I'm going to take walks by myself, whatever it was, I was going to be alone and start to learn more about myself.

And that craft or that art or that practice was one of the best things for me because now it's like I love being alone in certain moments. I love being around other people, but then I'm like, okay, I need some space to actually be alone. And I'll go to dinner by myself and go to movies by myself still. And I find it powerful personally. Where did that come from that for you? That, that I was just, I was afraid. I just hated the feeling of being alone. I just didn't like that feeling because I didn't have much friends growing up. And so I was just like, yeah, no one's going to like me. What's wrong with me? You know, why am I not good enough to have like friends? And then I was just like, screw it. I got to figure out who I am. I think at that time and start to fall in love with myself. So I just wanted to discover who I was and figure out

all these things then. It's a beautiful model that you're describing because from pain, yeah. Right. Um, is a wonderful impetus to go on a journey of self-discovery. Sure. And part of that self-discovery journey, it's a requirement to push on the edges of instability. And for you, being alone, there was those edges. Yeah. And really, it's about alone with your thoughts. Yeah. But alone is different than loneliness.

So loneliness is that sixth dimension I was talking about. Even in a group of, surrounded by a group of friends or loved ones. You can feel lonely. You can still feel desperately alone, lonely. And so, yeah, it sounds like you've done exactly what I've seen so many people that are on the path of mastery do, is that they push on their edges as often as they possibly can, and they're hungry for it. And it's not like there are some that are unsettled by not doing enough. There are some of those, but there is a general sense of like, man,

I put a solid day of work in today. Can I do this again tomorrow? Yeah. Okay. Let's get it right. There's that sort of tone to getting after. It sounds like you did exactly that. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's just like like I had a lot of emotional, mental pain growing up. And I was just like, I don't want to feel this anymore. Did you adopt the model like I need to do more? Is that why you got into elite sport? I think early on, it was just like I didn't have any friends.

And I remember getting picked last on sports teams a lot, like in elementary school. And I was just, I hated that feeling of not being wanted or needed or like that was good enough. And so I just said, I'm going to be the best in the world at what I can do so that I'm always needed.

Yeah. It was kind of like that early drive. That's right. It left me feeling very unfulfilled trying to prove others wrong. You know, I would achieve all, I was all state and multiple sports, all American,

you know, whatever. But it was like, I was always unhappy. It wasn't enough. So it drove me to do more until i realized i was doing it for the wrong reasons like yes i found joy in my craft and i was like fun and all these things but at the end of the day when i achieved the goals

it was so unfulfilling that's that that's that model i was referring to that is broken we need to do more to be more it never arrives yeah the being it never arrives you know so we need to be more be more of yourself and each one of us has an authentic self that is wanting and craving to be expressed and that journey of self-discovery is a lifelong journey yeah it's wonderful it's hard it's rare's rare. And it sounds like from pain that you figured out a broken model and then figured out, okay, that didn't work. And now what is the upgraded model? Okay, I got to figure out who I am and be about it. Yeah, when I started to figure out, okay, all these achievements I'm having, acquiring, aren't filling me up, then I started to shift my model even more.

I was like, okay, why am I doing these things? And what's the reason I'm going to be doing these things moving in the future? And I started to shifting from trying to prove people wrong to trying to lift people up and lift myself up and show myself what I'm capable of creating and to also have a more loving, joyful experience. But I'm always thinking of like,

where's my biggest pain and how can I look at it straight in the eye, kind of embrace it to a point that I like go deep within and see why I'm feeling this pain and then how can I work on it and practice on it so that it's just, you know, I can be alone for weeks and be okay. You know, I don't need to be worried anymore because I've done years of practice.

You know, same thing with girls. I was terrified of like talking to girls when I was a teenager. And I gave myself a summer project where every day, whenever I felt nervous around a girl, just a random girl I didn't know, I was going to go up to her and say hello. And then go up and ask for a number. And then, you know, try to ask for a date. It terrified me to do this, but I was just like, I don't want to be afraid to be able to just have a conversation with another human being just because they're attractive or whatever. And so

I try to find that in every area of my life at every stage, you know, it was public speaking in my early twenties. I was terrified to speak. So I went to Toastmasters every week and practiced and, you know, stuttered in front of people and just continued to fumble until I gained a little more confidence and put in the reps. So for me, it's all about discovering the pain, having a clear vision of what I want to overcome, and then just putting in the reps. Like a trained athlete in life. Yeah. As simple as you make it sound and as simple as we want it to be, it is that simple. It is.

But it's hard. It's terrifying. Yeah. And I look at it as like a sport. As long as I have someone who can give me a little coaching or just say, go try this and here's the game plan. Then I can be the athlete student and say, okay, I'm just going to put in the six hours of practice today and I'll report back and give me feedback. I just saw I apply everything from my sports training into

life. Yeah, that's really good. You know, sport gives us so much, so much. And at the same time, every craft can offer the same exact opportunities, right? Sport is just so tangible, physically observable, but every craft offers us, even parenting. You know, like, where do we go to get better at parenting? Where are those people that help us? You know, there's a couple manuals. You know, and ideally those people are supposed to be psychologists. But unfortunately, psychology was born out of studying what was broken at the human mind.

psychology was born out of studying what was broken at the human mind. And it's just, it hasn't been to the last 30 years that we're really advancing the science of the optimal ways to use your mind. And so it's like, you know, before the mics turned on, you asked like, what are you excited about?

I'm so excited about this point in time right now that people are really finding value and interest in how to condition their mind and it's this incredible swell that's taking over the industry is exploding yeah the the value of being present is talked about all the time mindfulness and strategies and we're seeing the swell even in the most rugged sports like like the nfl six years ago there was one and a half sports psychologists and now over half team half of the teams of the 32 teams have a sports psychologist you know so that's like saying yeah we've always known that the mind is important and that now there's this group of people that are highly skilled at it to be able to condition it so it's

like god it's it's really an exciting time the greatest coaches from the past like the woodens and the lombardis were almost like modern day psychologists at the time they're phenomenal they were the ones who were able to like connect on relationship level and the mental level with their players it sounds like otherwise there's in the phil jackson's of the world otherwise there's no way they would have been champions that many years without having the mental game mastered or trying to master it and building that relationship with their athletes. So that's how the field, the entire industry and the science of sports psychology started is, okay, there's a question like, how do the best work? Well, let's go study them. And so you're right on the money.

And if you just look at like great coaches, let's call it 60 years ago, they did everything. They, they nutrition, physical training, technical training, mindset, you know, they did everything, recovery, everything. Yeah. Right. And then some progressive coaches said, Hey, you know, if we got these strength coach guys in here, you know, maybe we go bigger, faster, stronger, have a fourth quarter advantage, so to speak. And then that started to work. Okay. everyone has a strength and conditioning coach right so now bigger faster strong and then what do you need you need medical because they're bigger faster stronger working right so you need better medical atcs and medical medical and all of that that comes with it pts and atcs and then what happens is nutrition so we saw that wave of 10 years ago right it's obvious

nutrition is part of the game right it's part of the fuel yeah and then so now we're in this current wave where it's my training yeah so it's a competitive advantage where do we go next next let me finish on the mind thing it is a competitive advantage to know your mind to condition your mind we call it front loading so you want to do your mental skills front loading. So you get there ahead of time of the test, right? Before the lights are on. You're visualizing. You train your mind before. You train optimism, calm, confidence. Where's confidence come from? What you say to yourself. That's it. It's not your past success. It's not if you do well in the warmups. That's a totally broken model. So, you know, you can train all of these things in a very structured way. And then,

because it's really hard to show up on what's called an ultra marathon and physically bonk. You put in a lot of physical training, but then you over-train maybe, you get to that ultra, you get to the marathon even, and then you bonk. That sucks. But you know what happens a lot for most people they do all the physical technical training they show up and they tighten up and constrict yeah that's a mental error that's a right so constriction and expansion those are the two kind of threads that we're working on what are the thoughts that create expansion space what are the thoughts that create constriction or smallness and you know we're responsible for that in our mind so it's a really exciting time where do we go next probably spirit probably spirituality is like really yeah a reconnecting to our purpose yeah that's probably

where human evolution is going to go next like a real investment there along with technology like there's going to be some genomic um you know micro splicing that's taking place as we're following right now that you know blue eyes blonde hair like that scary type of thing you know is like it's it's real but then have you are you following some of this stuff not much okay so right now we think about you know competitive advantage train your mind your body your craft you know great great great but what if you want to become the fastest human what if we want to create the fastest human but we take ostrich legs and put it with a human upper frame it's real according to result according to lab research they, they are surviving in petri dishes.

So how far away from that? I don't know. Like what happens? What is surviving? That, what I just described. A human top and ostrich legs? Yeah. What?

Yeah. What do you mean? How? Yeah. I mean, I'll show you all this stuff. What? Yeah. Take a look at CRISPR.

It is. Is it creating a human from scratch or is it... It's genomic splicing. From nothing or is it a human with no legs that they're putting legs on? No, no, no. Yeah. So take the DNA of an embryo, right? The DNA of a human and DNA of an ostrich.

They're putting it together. Put it together. Already. Sequencing those... I didn't know they were testing that specifically. Yeah. Check out CRISPR. How big has this grown?

Well, it's scaring us. It's scaring a lot of people right now. Shut up. Yeah, a lot of people are talking about AI and how that's going to influence human performance. That's 10 years out. Five years. Five to 10 years, that's really going to take hold. I think.

That's my prediction. I'm not bullish on it yet. It is coming, right? Like some of the companies that I've been exposed to, like that stuff is really cool. Some of those cool like dog robot things are pretty, yeah, there's some stuff there. It's just not there yet. The most powerful thing that we can do is train our mind. Artificial intelligence is the closest cousin we can get to it. That's going to take a while. Watching tape and watching film is a reduction of down from that. But playing the tape in your mind ahead of time,

it's the most powerful tool we have. But it requires discipline. It requires focus. But we can train those. Right? Okay. But AI is going to help get people that are a bit, no, it's going to help people with the undisciplined mind to get better

at it. But it's still clunky. There's lots of friction around it. But microgenomic splicing is coming. It's crazy. When I was a decathlete in college, I was just training all day for every sport. But at night, my weakest sport was the pole vault because I had very little training on it. And I had six months where I decided I'm going to try the decathlon and I'm going to try to be an All-American in six months when I made the decision. And I hadn't done a lot of the events. So I had a six-month window. And pole vault was the hardest. I was maybe like a 10-foot pole vaulter and was horrible form and everything, I would watch this pole vaulting hour-long video highlight tape every single night over and over again for that whole time.

I would plug it in as my VHS tape and TV at the time in my dorm room and just watch it until I fell asleep. Then I would go in the next morning and try to just mimic the greatest pole vaulters in the world. And throughout the whole day, I was just visualizing my form and proving a little by little and seeing myself go over the bar. And it was one of the most powerful things. I mean, that's when really I saw the power of visualization was kind of during the

decathlon training because everything was so technical. Yeah. Every movement of the shot put the pole vault and the javelin is so technical kinetic sequencing that is so cool in that sport and having to see like the lineup and the hips of just everything and the discus or whatever i was just trying to watch the perfect way to do it and try to replicate it every single day but i'm you know one of the biggest believers in visualization for everything you know i i we i don't use the word visualization i use imagery you know same thing right and but imagery gives me the space to to also talk about not just seeing it but feeling it smelling it using experiencing it experience so this is an

ability imagery is an ability visualization is an ability which anything that's an ability you can get better at and how do you get better at it well know know what science would suggest know what greats do how they do it and the the easiest way i can describe it is that you and i both know this is that when you close your eyes and you imagine something sensual, you imagine a woman or whatever, you imagine that thing, your body will change. Ostrich's legs. Yeah, ostrich's legs. That's where you want to go.

Literally, your physiology will change. When you think of something sensual. Yeah, sexual or sensual. You know that. Everybody that's listening knows that. You just close your eyes and you have this amazing experience in your mind. Your body body turns on yes yes it does okay so that's why um okay so we you don't need any more research to know that and every 14 year old little boy

understands this intimately okay can't control it they cannot control that okay so take that principle and layer it on the thing that you care most about okay so what does that mean that means when you close your eyes because the more That means when you close your eyes, because we're visual creatures and you close your eyes, there's so many visual distractions. Close your eyes, you've got to warm up your brain and your mind. So your brain from a sensual standpoint, senses standpoint, not sensual, but senses.

Wake up the senses of touch, sound, smell. Wake up all of your senses. And the way that we do that with athletes is keep saying we you know it's like but um see a fruit see a fruit in your mind's eye become familiar with the way it tastes the way can you control it and move it what's the color and the texture and the feel wake your mind up that way because a fruit is so tangible right and then if you're really good you can taste it your mind yeah yeah yep because a fruit is so tangible, right? And then if you're really good, you can taste it. Your mind, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then see if you can control it. Can you manipulate it, move it around?

Because that's what you have to do in imagery. And then go straight into the thing you care about. You've got all of your senses lit up. Your mind is committed to focusing on the thing that is important to you and slow it down, right? And then when you're better, speed it up. When you get even more skilled, speed it up again. And so if you can go full-time, real-time

with all of your senses in play and you can really feel it, you're onto it. A couple more questions for you. You talked about pillars of recovery. What are those pillars and how can we incorporate that in our lives? Yeah, so a great question. So again, in the world stage, we definitely talk more about the science and the art of recovery. Everybody works hard. And so there's four pillars. The

first is sleep well, and that's a given, right? Just saying it though is important because science is very clear. Most humans, 68% to 70%, you know, one standard deviation from the norm for people is, uh, requires seven to eight hours of sleep, independent of job function, independent of geographic region. It's a human experience. Most of us need seven to eight hours. When I ask people how much they're getting, most aren't getting seven to eight. So what's going on? There's a lot going on there and we can go on and on about like the tactics for that but most people do know the tactics it's a discipline thing they put down tv to put down instagram to put down whatever um and you know get your room as dark as you possibly can cold yeah cold you know 68 70 degrees somewhere in that range and then um

so sleep well and to really value that. Those, our brain does something funny. If we study some research here, people that for five days have five hours of sleep when they do a pre-post and a post-test on reaction time. So if you go to sleep for five hours for five days at the end of that period and they measure you, your reaction time people humans reaction time is no different than a drunk person they would not be able to pass wow um you know a 0.08 0.08 um driving test so sleep well the the next is move well so get oxygenation throughout your system you know like get your heart rate up sweat yeah sweat like really have, you know, like get your heart rate up. Sweat. Yeah, sweat. Like really have a, you know, general guidelines are about four and a half hours a week.

Of movement. Yeah, two hours. Physical movement. Moderate to intensity, two hours of, you know, non-cardio. So somewhere in that range. And then, actually, let me do these in order. Sleep well, eat and hydrate well, move well, and then think well. Those are the four pillars.

There is a social aspect that's important for recovery, but I want to just focus on the ones that you can fully control. Sleep, you got it. Eat and hydrate. Eat colorful foods. Plenty of hydration is really important. Make it really simple, like 40 ounces before 2 o'clock, 40 ounces before 4.

Make it super simple. And exact nutrition is a science. There's a science to that. Of course. ounces before two o'clock, 40 ounces before four, like make it super simple. And, and like exact nutrition is a science. There's a science to that, but, um, and then the, the other two, you know, uh, get your heart rate up, move well, and then think, well, be optimistic. That's great. Yeah. What's the question that people should be asking you more or that they're not asking themselves enough? Yeah, that is a super thoughtful question. And I think that what most people do ask is, how can I be better?

I don't think that's the right question. I think the right question, and like, listen, if you knew what I knew, and you might know, what it, the path and what it takes to become an Olympian, let's say. For your child to go that path, you probably would not encourage them. But we are littered with crazy, anxious parenting, trying to help their kids do well in life.

But it is a dark, dark path. So I think the real question is, how can you help me know who I am? And what can I do to become myself? I think that that's like, you know, that's important. But also at the core is, you know, what is the human experience about? And my answer is, I can't tell you, but that's the right question. Go and figure it out. Go discover who you are and what this journey is about. And it's not about being the best in the world. I can't tell you how many times people that I know have been on the podium,

and they get off the podium crying or whatever, and the world thinks that they are celebrating this moment of achievement. And they get off and they say, Jesus, I thought I was going to be different. I'm still that same. It's crazy. Yeah. So know who you are and, and, um, and figure out the, what the human experience means to you. I like that. Um, this is called the three truths. Uh, if, if this was the last day for you and you had no podcast or content or anything out there anymore, it was all erased. So all the information you had was gone, but you had no podcast or content or anything out there anymore. It was all erased. So all the information you had was gone, but you had a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you

know to be true about your experience, about life that you would pass on to the world. And this is all people would have these three lessons or three truths. What would be yours? For sure. It begins with love. The second would be courage. And the third would be a path of self-discovery. Yeah, those are cool. I want to acknowledge you for a moment for your gift of helping people open up about who they are and for helping people learn the tools and the strategies to overcome so much pain and suffering and anxiety and stress

that a lot of the world is facing that in my mind is pointless for people to have. It's holding them back from their potential or from their living who they truly authentically are. And I'm just really grateful that you are in the world doing this work in an authentic, loving way and pushing the boundaries of what's capable for all human beings. So thank you for all you do. That's really cool. Thank you for that. Yeah, I appreciate it. And congratulations on everything you've done. Thank you. You're definitely making a dent in the space and increasing people's awareness about what is possible and some ways to go about it. So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. I got one more question

before I ask it. Where can we connect with you and learn more about your work? Where can we get your information? Oh, cool. Yeah. I appreciate that. Two ways. One is Coach Carol and I created a business called Compete to Create. It's on.net.

CompeteToCreate.net. And that's where we help organizations and CEOs and companies understand how to train their minds to become their very best. And so that's been a really fun process. And who's that for? Like teams of organizations? Yeah. So if you're inside an organization and you're interested in that, we've got a digital training

experience. So it's an online course. We've got some in-person stuff where our staff are Olympians and sports psychologists that go right in and they understand our methodology to help people transform and become their very best by training their mind. So it's been, we have had so much fun, you know,

working with influential people in the business world to do that. So that's one. That's cool. The second is finding mastery.net. And so I'm sorry, finding mastery podcast and the website is finding mastery.net. And that's just been a, I think you and I talked about this earlier,

just a wonderful journey about understanding what goes into people that are on the path of mastery and what they're doing. So that's a fun podcast. I'm grateful to be part of that and curate that. And then social media is at Michael Gervais. That's Twitter G E R V A I S. And Instagram is at finding mastery. Sweet. Sweet.

Awesome. Final question for you. What's your definition of greatness? Yeah, thank you. Being able to authentically express yourself in any conditions. Michael, thank you so much, man. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. I could have gone on for another hour just listening to and diving into the mindset of how we can really optimize the mind and figure out anything that holds us back anything that makes us fearful in life and really use it to our advantage to move towards it and overcome certain things so that we can create better results in our life i'm all about

finding the tools the strategies the techniques to help optimize and have a better life. That's what the School of Greatness is about. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends. I'm at Lewis Howes over on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. Tag me anywhere you want to share it. You can check out the full show notes, video, resources, links that we talked about at lewishowes.com slash 533. We'll have some great

quotes up there. You can tweet those out if you want to. And make sure to tag Michael as well whenever you're posting this out. Again, if you're an entrepreneur or freelancer or startup creator, or you just have a book that you want to put out there or some social media graphics, check out designcrowd.com slash greatness. You get a $100 VIP offer when you go there right now. Again, I use them for a lot of my projects. I just did a book cover with them. I just did a project on one of my new courses.

I had them design our full new logo. We've redesigned websites. Whatever it is, designcrowd.com slash greatness is a great solution to help you create amazing designs for your projects or your business. Check it out at designcrowd.com slash greatness. And also, if you have not got a copy of the Mask of Masculinity, please pre-order your copy right now. The pre-orders will help so much in getting the message out there for me during the first couple weeks of our launch. And if you go to mascofmasculinity.com,

you can learn all about what's in it for men, what's in it for women, how it can take your life to the next level, and all the different bonuses we're offering. Again, if you buy one copy, three, 10, 250 copies, we add so much value with some of our programs and courses and never before released content that you can't get anywhere else. So make sure to go to maskofmasculinity.com, pre-order a few copies, and when you do, screenshot

your receipt and tag me on your Instagram story. And as Michael Jordan said it best, you have to expect things of yourself before you can do them. Guys, we must expect more from ourselves. And it starts with optimizing the way we think and the way we're being in order to do more in our lives. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music