The School of Greatness - 557 Courageous Vulnerability and Loving Yourself with Najwa Zebian

Episode Date: November 1, 2017

"THESE MOUNTAINS THAT YOU ARE CARRYING YOU ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO CLIMB." - NAJWA ZEBIAN I started noticing Najwa's Instagram posts for months before I met her. Her voice and thoughts were so compelling, I felt like she was speaking the exact feelings of my heart. When I met her in Toronto to interview her, it was like meeting family. Najwa may have a completely different background than me, growing up in Lebanon and Canada as a Muslim woman, but she is so relateable that literally hundreds of thousands of people read her posts every day. I loved getting to know her story so much, I invited her to speak at the Summit of Greatness this year.

This is episode number 557 with Najwa Zabian. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. If they don't appreciate your presence, they may never recognize your absence.

That's a quote from Najwa Zabian, who is on today. She's become a dear friend of mine, and she is someone who spoke at the Summit of Greatness a couple of months ago and was a massive hit, brought the audience to tears and opened them up in a whole new way. Najwa is a Lebanese-Canadian author, poet, and educator. In 2011, she became a teacher and is currently pursuing her doctorate in educational leadership. Her first book, Mind Platter, blew up and gives a voice to those who need one and inspires those who need a reminder of the power that they have over their lives. Published in the same year, her second book, The Nectar of Pain, is a collection of poetry and prose that the pain of love and loss gave birth to. Both of these books are incredible, and she is such an inspiration online with her messages, her videos, her poetry,

and she's taken over the world by storm, building a massive audience. And in this interview, we cover why our need for belonging can cause us so much pain. Also, the reason we must find a home within ourselves and not putting a home in someone else. Also, how to stop feeling empty inside, whether or not we can overcome the fear of pain, and Najwa's message to men about vulnerability. I am so excited about this. And before we dive in, I want to give a shout out to the fan of the week over on iTunes. This is from Jayhawk O'Brien, who said, I have always enjoyed listening to the School of Greatness,

but when I started quoting Lewis to my friends and colleagues, I knew he had an impact on my life. Thanks for your hard work and leadership. So Jayhawk O'Brien, thank you for leaving your review. And if you guys want a chance to get shouted out on the podcast, head over to iTunes and leave a review over on your podcast app. And if you're listening to this right now or at any point during this, make sure to take a screenshot and tag me on Instagram and tag at Najwa Zabian as well on Instagram

to let us know what you think. I promise you there's going to be some amazing moments that you're going to want to write down notes. You're going to want to screenshot. You're going to want to post about because she is a wealth of wisdom and insight. So without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Najwa Zabian. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. I'm very excited about our guest today. Her name is Najwa Zabian.

Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited. Yes, very excited. I can't remember where I first found you. Probably Instagram. I found you on Instagram, but I think it might have been through the good quote. I think they posted a quote of yours.

Yes. And it was an account that I follow, and I just started checking out your stuff. And I really like the thoughtfulness, the intention behind your words, your message, just your energy and your essence. Thanks. So I started to follow you. And I don't know, I think maybe I was commenting on your stuff, and we a relationship and started connecting over Instagram and then we chatted on the phone and I was coming here and I really wanted to meet you and have you on. So I'm super glad that we're finally connecting.

I'm very happy that I finally got to meet you. Yeah, yeah. You have an interesting story because you were from Lebanon, correct? You moved here when you were 13 or 16? 16. 16. Correct? You moved here when you were 13 or 16? 16. 16. And you came here with your family or when did you, who'd you move with? My family was already here. I'm the youngest of six in my family by many, many years. So long story short, my parents met and got married in Canada and then

had five children. And one day my sister came home from school and my dad asked her a question in Arabic, my first language, and she didn't know how to answer. So it hit him that he needed to take his kids back home to learn the language. So he up and left to Lebanon. And many years later, I was born there. So when my siblings would hit 18, they'd come here to finish their education. And I was the only one who was left there. So I was living with several family members, aunts and uncles. And then at 16, I came here to join the rest. Your parents.

Yeah. So how long were you not with your parents? It was a period of about eight years of on and off. So I would see them for months during the year. They would come visit you or you would come to Canada? They would come visit me during the year and I would come here during the summer. Got it. Yeah.

Until I finally, at 16, I came here with the intention of just staying for the summer. And then the war broke out in Lebanon. I couldn't go back. It was right before grade 12. So it was a sensitive year. So I had to make the decision to stay here, and I hated it. Really? Why did you hate it? I already struggled to feel like I belonged back there

because I lived in so many different places, and now all of a sudden I'm in a brand-new country where people on the streets aren't speaking Arabic. They're speaking English. And although I knew how to speak English, it was just different. Because now it was a whole other world for me to adapt to. And a way to express yourself. Yeah.

Different languages. Yeah. So I just, I kind of shut down for a while when I first came here. Arabic, English, any other languages? No, that's it. I want to learn French one day. French, yes. Arabic. Isn't that Habibi? No, that's it. I want to learn French one day. French, yes. Arabic.

Isn't that Habibi? Isn't that the word? Yes. My love, my baby, my baby. Yes. I have a few friends that are Egyptian who would always say that to me. Habibi, hey Habibi. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's like universal. Right. In all the Arab countries, you say Habibi to someone that you love. Yeah. Whereas there's differences in other dialects. Yeah. That's cool.

Yeah. So you moved here when you were a teenager. It was confusing. You didn't really understand the language that well. I guess you did, but not as well as... I understood it, but it was weird for me to converse in that language. When back home, it was like an hour a week during English class that I had to speak it.

And now everything functioned that way. So it just was weird. To produce a language is different from knowing it. Yeah. I mean, I barely speak English, so I know what you feel. Now what was it like then the first couple of years for you? Were you able to connect with peers? Did you have any friends? Were you just hanging out with your family the whole time?

What was that like? Very dark times. If I think back to it, I honestly feel like I was invisible at that time. Like I see those times. I don't see them in color because they were so, I was so depressed for, and looking for someone to blame for the way that I was feeling at the time. You know, is it the war? Is it my family? Is it me?

Is something wrong with me? And I would go to school, being the youngest by many years also in my class, by a couple of years. I was 16 in grade 12. Usually you're older than that. And the majority of the school population wasn't Muslim. And even the Muslims who were there, you know, we were in grade 12. So you're focusing on school. You're not focusing on those kinds of relationships.

So at lunch, as sad as it sounds, I used to sit in the library and study. I never connected well with people. And I never wanted to. I just wanted to go home and just be alone. Yeah, not talk to anybody. It was like that for a while. So you didn't even go to the lunchroom and just hang out with kids? I remember the first time I went to the cafeteria,

even go to the lunchroom and just hang out with kids? I remember the first time I went to the cafeteria, one of my, one of the girls I knew in math class who was very, very smart, she was like, I just need to get something from the cafeteria. And we walked in and I was like, wow, this is where they come and eat. And it's like in my school. So yeah. Would you pack lunch then or would you go to the cafeteria first, take it to the library? I would pack a lunch sometimes. And everyone would go in there, yeah. And sometimes I would go home. I would walk home for lunch and come back. Or I would just take a tiny snack with me and eat.

Yeah. Food wasn't really a priority. When you're depressed, you don't really think of, well, at least for me. You either overeat or, yeah. My friends always say when I'm stressed out, I eat, but I'm not like that. You don't eat. I don't. I forget. I just focus so much on my pain that I forget anything else, which is horrible, but yeah. Where did this pain come from originally? Originally, I think the pain came from my desperate need to feel like I belonged somewhere.

The age gap that I grew up with between me and my siblings, me and my parents, me and everyone else around me, that was something I was trying to make sense of as I grew up. I wasn't aware that there was a problem there. I obviously thought something was wrong with me for not feeling okay all the time. And then I started getting bullied in school for being too sensitive. Like, very, very bad bullying by friends and sometimes teachers. Was this in Canada? This was in Lebanon yeah up to the age up to grade 11 pretty much and then when I came here that search for a place where I felt like I belonged was the same looking for someone who understood me someone

who listened to me someone who could value my voice without saying, you're 16, you don't know this much. But I always knew that I knew, I always knew that I was mature, like way too mature for my age, but I always got the, you're still too young, you know, get out of this conversation. So that's where the pain started and it just got very amplified during recent years with an experience of finally feeling like I found a home and feeling the glory of that. Feeling like accepted and acknowledged. Feeling loved, respected, feeling like I actually mattered to someone, someone actually cared about what I had to say

and saw me for who I saw myself as or thought I was, someone who loved my sensitivity, which I was bullied for, and saw that as charming instead of... Weaker. Yeah, or you need to get rid of that. And then the pain was amplified when I found out that none of that was really sincere. So to me, it was finding something I've been looking for my whole life and you're coming to tell me it wasn't

real? How dare you? Yeah, so that part of my life, that pain of searching for a home, finding one, yeah, finally finding one, and then going through realizing that it wasn't, And going through realizing that it was just an imaginary home that I built. That's what I wanted to see. That was my perception. It wasn't real. And coming to terms with that, imagine coming home at the end of every day and you're in front of this place and you see it. You're like knocking on the door, let me in.

But there's nothing there. In reality, there's nothing there. And getting that disappointment every day until you realize there is no home. There's no place for you here. You have to let this go. So that realization really did impact me as a person. Also, the message that I'm trying to send out into the world, my writing. This was just a few years ago when all this happened, huh?

Yeah, leading up to very recently. I think the worst point of the pain was coming to terms with the fact that that is not a home. What you found wasn't what you've been looking for your whole life. And the struggle to accept that took a couple of years. And then the struggle to stop blaming myself for seeing it in a different way. That's been taking place over the last year or so, I would say. What's the thing you've been looking for then? Or what's the thing you're looking for now? Oh dear, what am I looking for now?

If that thing you were searching for wasn't actually real or real in that situation, wasn't what you were looking for, then what is it? So I was looking for a home, right? The mistake I made is that I built that home in a human being, in another person, not inside of me or not with that person you know what I mean so I I'm a giver it's my nature so to me investing in this person investing in this home meant giving all of the love and kindness and anything inside of me that was valuable to put it in that home, in that person. And when he walked away, all of that stuff was gone from me and I felt so empty.

And I realized that we all do that. We all invest in a person or in a place or in an idea. We put all of our heart into it. And then once it's gone because it's not meant for us or it never really was ours, we're left thinking, we're left feeling betrayed. I've invested so much and it's gone. I invested so much and it's gone. So I realized that the home I need to build is not in a person, not bound to one place. You know, having searched for a physical home, literally, for a long time, like one consistent place that I'm in,

I also tend to attach myself to certain places because I want those places to welcome me. I'm not like that anymore. So when someone tells me, let's travel, I want to travel. Or why don't you think of moving somewhere? I actually don't care about leaving the place that I'm in because I'm moving the little homes, the little pieces of who I am from certain places that accept those pieces into myself. And I say, wherever I am, this is who I am. And what makes me who I am belongs inside of me, not in a certain place or with a certain person or attached to a certain dream. I don't know if that makes sense. Of course. Yeah, yeah. No, it in a certain place or with a certain person or, you know, attached to a certain dream. I don't know if that makes sense. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. No, it makes a lot of sense. I remember

you doing a video recently about that on Instagram about the home with someone else. Yeah. That was part of my TED talk. Yeah. Yeah. Explaining why we feel so empty because you put all that stuff into another place and that place left. It's no longer there. Now you're gone. All the stuff you have is gone. Yeah. So that feeling of emptiness is actually true

because it's literally like investing your money into a house, right? You make a nice kitchen and you create an in-home cinema and whatever and then you get kicked out of the house. Yes, you lost everything you had, of course. So you feel like you're starting from scratch. And it's the same thing with feelings.

It's the same thing with that feeling of belonging somewhere. So instead of investing in a house or a place or a person, we should be investing in ourselves? We should be investing in ourselves. And that home, that virtual home I'm talking about is the feeling of being welcomed somewhere into someone's life or feeling like they accept you and they love you. It's like if you and I were in a relationship and I came home to you at the end of the day, do you know what I mean? That's the other home I'm referring to.

So I was in search of both of these homes. Yeah, a relationship and a physical home. Yeah, yeah. Like a stable physical home at least. Yeah. And I did have that when I came here. But it's still, you know, because of the gaps I had in relationships with my family. Your siblings were much older.

Yeah. And they're great people. I love them very much. But when you spend a long time far away from someone, even if they're a family member, especially if they're a family member actually, Even if they're a family member, especially if they're a family member, actually, ties get very rigid. And they're at a different stage in their lives. Yeah. What do you think pain has taught you the most about yourself?

It taught me, it really showed me how strong I was or I am. I have a very high threshold for pain. That just tells me you're not good at getting out of it. You just like to stick at it and go deeper and deeper. Yeah, I'm an empath, so I believe in people. I give people excuses. And the person that I was stuck with happened to be a narcissist. And those, you know, having an empath and a narcissist is like the worst thing. It's like a dream world for him. Exactly. Because a narcissist wants someone to make excuses for them. And an empath is a person who makes excuses for people.

A narcissist lies and an empath tries to look for reasons. You know, maybe he had a troubled childhood or maybe he never had a positive role model or all that stuff. So yeah, I am an empath and I'm too kind, way too kind. I believe in people way more than sometimes they deserve to be believed in. But I've learned to shift my perception from what they deserve to who am I as a person. If I'm kind to you and you take advantage of that, I shouldn't stop being kind because you're taking advantage of my kindness. You're the one who's at fault. Me being kind is not a problem. It shouldn't be a problem.

So when I start to shift my perception that way, instead of reacting to people, saying this is who I am and this is what I believe in. I believe in kindness. I believe in telling the truth. I believe in not judging people based on experiences I've had with other people because this is who I am. So who you are is not going to affect me or affect the way that I am going to react to you. I'm going to be strict with my, you know. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's great.

Yeah. How do we overcome the fear of pain? Are you afraid to go back into that space you were for many years and repeat the pattern? Oh, dear. Yeah, I am afraid. Of course I am. Of course I am. Because as much as you think you know

and as careful as you can be, you have no idea how someone is going to hurt you or what life is going to bring your way. You could be as prepared as you want to be, but there is no way to shield yourself from the pain that's going to come. And if you say, you know, I've experienced something horrifically painful, which is what I experienced. I went through an experience of gaslighting. I don't know if you know what that is. What's that? It's literally like me telling you, like me walking in here and telling you I have no idea who you are. And you'll be like, we spoke like an hour ago.

I texted you. I'm like, no, I have no idea what you're talking about. So it's a psychological manipulation that really makes a person question their identity. It stemmed from a 1930s play where a girl falls madly in love with a guy. They get married and she has like the dream story. And then the term gaslighting comes from when he wanted to make her feel like she was crazy so that he could walk away from the marriage instead of blaming himself. He wanted to blame her. He would go to the attic and dim the gas so the lights would dim downstairs.

And she would tell him the lights are dim and he'd be like, I don't know what you're talking about. So the only person who could do that to you is someone that you trust. Because if you trust them, then you trust that they're telling you the truth. Right? Wow. Yeah. So when you go through an experience like that for a period of years, and you get out of it,

you could easily say, I've experienced one of the worst pains in life. That means that any other pain that comes my way, I'm not going to feel it. That's not the truth. You will feel any new pain that comes your way. The difference is that you know just because you overcame the pain before it that you will overcome this. That's the difference. Yeah. Yeah. You can't overcome your fear of pain. You can't. There's no way to shield yourself from it. Every person that you meet, every person,

people who look like they're the happiest, they all have pain. We all have pain. We all have something in our lives that's not working out the way we want it to. And even if we have a period of, you know, pure joy and gratitude, life brings something else our way, right? Yeah, of course. What do you think is missing in your life right now?

What's missing in my life? Definitely not a person because I'm not there yet. I'm not ready for that yet. More liberation, more self-liberation. What's that mean? What does it mean to me? I live in many different worlds. I live in the world of education right now. I live in the world of my culture and my religion and my family. I live in the world, in this bigger world, of my writing, of reaching out to people. And that's the world that I feel mostly like myself in.

And I feel like I am trying to balance out all three worlds, like 33%, 33 to 33, when it should be, I should be devoting most of my time to the world that is calling out for me right now. So that is what self-liberation means to me because it is a decision. Like as much as I sit there and say, you know, I can't, I can't, I just, I can't let go. That's, to me, it feels like I'm weakening myself when I say that. Yeah. So I need to make the decision. I think it's challenging.

And we talked about this on the phone a little bit. I've lost many friends over the years. And I've been distant to my family. I left when I was 13 to be in a private boarding school. So I was just away from my family in general. And I'm the youngest of four as well. So they were gone and off to college and off doing other things. And the more I went into my calling, I felt like the more I had to let go of certain people in my life who weren't supportive or who weren't lifting me up in that sense, I guess. And it was a challenge to be like, well, I want to still have these friends and I want to be there for my family all the time that I can be.

But my calling was driving me somewhere else. And unless they were along for the ride, it was like some people were left behind at certain times in my life. So I think it's hard to balance 33, 33, 33 for everything. But I know what you mean. It's scary, though. It's hard, especially for someone who wants to belong. It's hard to leave somewhere you feel connected and accepted and acknowledged. And I also don't like hurting people's feelings. But I do have to recognize that

sometimes the way that people feel isn't my fault. Just like I'm reflecting, they need to be reflecting as well. And in terms of talking about losing people, people. You know, it was easy for many people to lose me along their ways of life, not because I wasn't supportive, but because maybe I didn't seem like a, they didn't see the greatness in me. They didn't see me as a person and they weren't interested in seeing me as a person. So I have been to a certain extent alone for a long time anyway. It's just been since January of 2016, since I put Mind Platter out into the world, of 2016 since I put mind platter out into the world that even I started to see the greatness inside of me as greatness instead of seeing it as what's wrong with me you know so I am definitely okay with not sticking around people or not begging people to let me keep a place in their lives if it means you know sacrificing where I'm headed if someone loves you and respects you

they need to push you and raise you instead of you know pull you back and say, don't do that because you're going to ruin this relationship between us. Right. Yeah. Again, like I've lost so many friends who I felt like were trying to hold me back from my vision. And it's just like. Their loss. Yeah. I mean, I feel, I feel bad because I don't want to let people down either. You know, I want to please people. I want people to be happy with me. But I'm just like, I never want to look back and regret saying like, oh, I stuck around these three friends and I stood by their side and I was loyal to them and not loyal to my dreams. Yes. I just feel like that would be the biggest crime I could ever commit. And I don't care what someone says about me or if I'm not a good friend. It's like, I have to pursue that calling. Yes. And I'm glad you're, I'm not a good friend, it's like I have to pursue that calling. Yes.

And I'm glad you're doing that now because we've been talking about that. Now, why do you think people have resonated with your message so much? Because you don't look like every other woman out there. What's it called that you wear again? Hijab. Hijab. Yes. You wear hijab.

Yes. Muslim. I mean, you're in Canada. Yeah. But you look different. You have a different background than, I guess, most people. And why do you think people are so connected to your message, especially now? I think when people look at me, I read a poem not long ago at an event in London. It was actually a rally where I started by saying,

you know, if you ask to hear my story, I wonder what story I would tell you. Do I tell you the story of the little girl who was bullied in school? Or do I tell you the story of the girl who moved to a new country at 16? Do I tell you the story of the girl who never felt like she had a home? And I asked all of these questions and then I said, what story do I tell you when this, and I referred to my hijab, is the only story that you see? So I think, and that was really powerful for them because it's true. When someone sees me, the first thing they think of is different, the first thing they think of is different, Islam, sheltered, oppressed. Many people think that.

And I don't want to hear what she has to say. And many people make the assumption that I talk about religion. But if they take two seconds to look through my writing, it has nothing to do with religion. It has nothing to do with me, you know, judging others for their beliefs or any of that. So my writing is about basic human feelings, things that we all share. Like, I doubt that there is one person out there who could read my writing and not be able to relate to it at some level. There's nothing in there that just refers to me as a Muslim woman. Oppressed Muslim woman. At all.

It's funny when they tell me you're oppressed, I stand up there and I'm like, well, if oppression means publishing two books and teaching and being a doctorate student and speaking and all those things, then sure. I wish everybody were oppressed, but you know what I mean? It's, there's a lot of misinformation out there, a lot of misinformation. But sometimes I find myself falling into, you know, I receive messages from people saying, how could you be Muslim and talk about the things that you talk about?

Because I know that it's, you're not supposed to be talking about those things. Like love before marriage? How? I thought Islam said you're not allowed to be in love before you're married. certain things because I do want people to look differently at Islam not just because I want them to look differently at Islam in particular but at anything that's different altogether like last month I marched in the pride parade in London I was the only girl wearing the hijab there. The only one. There may have been a few more, but I didn't see anybody. And that's what I was told. You're the only one I saw. I see her today. And you're the first one I see at this pride parade in London, you know, through the

years. I think this was the third or fourth time they've had it. And just so I'm clear, would traditional Muslim people not be supportive of that? No. So they would say, you know, homosexuality is a sin and we're completely against it. See, for me, the struggle is have your religious beliefs all you want, but you can't, you can't belittle a person because of what you believe, then what does that say about your religion? Like belittling a human being for something that they have that is different from what you have, that doesn't show acceptance, that doesn't show compassion, doesn't show empathy, and I don't stand for that.

And if we were in a country where, you know, it was the Islamic rule, which I don't think that religion and government should come together. I think there should be a separation of religion and state. But I always say if we were living in a government where it was Islamic, then you'd be able to say that if that's what the government said, but you have to realize that there's a separation there. Your rule isn't the rule that everybody should follow. So I get hate from people who don't like Islam and I get hate from people who are Muslims as well because I go against what the traditional belief is. Or maybe not go against.

I hate using words like that, but trying to, like having a different understanding myself. Does that make sense? Of course. No, of course. And I think you wrote something about this where you mentioned, you know, that you really don't appreciate when someone is judging other people from a place of religion.

They're starting judging other people that goes against religion. What's the purpose of religion altogether? Isn't religion supposed to be acceptance and welcoming and community, not judgment of people? Yes. And that's what the challenge I've always had. I grew up in a Christian religion and no longer practice per se, but it's just kind of always the challenge I had with a lot of religion. And maybe it's just certain people in religions that kind of ruin it for everyone, I guess.

Yes. Or they are very judgmental. They are very negative and very right and wrong. And it's all about hell and heaven. I stood in front of a group one day and I told them, if I was speaking to you 10 years ago, like when I first arrived here, I would tell you all, you're all going to hell. And I said, I've had to unlearn so many things from that time till now. And that's what I hope for you as well. I want you to do that. Just, you know, I've done it. I've sacrificed a lot of things. I've got into many arguments with people

who I thought were dear to me to defend your rights. And I hope that you would do the same for me. We all learn certain things that we need to get rid of because they're just, they're false. Why do you think so many people come from that place of, in religion in general, come from that place of like, you're going to hell unless this, and are so committed to being right and vocalizing it and constantly like preaching that to people? Why do you think people come from that space? I think talking from my own experience, of course, and also my, my like poetic-ness, I would say, and my understanding of people, I would say it's a way for them to feel better about themselves. You know, I'm better than you because I wear the hijab and you're not wearing it. You're showing your hair. So I'm better than you.

And then that way you take away from, you know, how good of a person are you compared to how good of a person I am. We don't care about that anymore. It's about the way that we look or whether we pray a certain way or show people that we are devout in a certain way. So I always ask people, like Muslims, for example, who send me hateful messages, and I say, you do know that in the Quran it says that gossiping and backbiting are huge sins. They're like worse than killing a person. Really? Did you know that?

Gossiping is? Yeah, gossiping and backbiting are very, very bad. They're on the high level of sins. There's one verse that I don't remember exactly how it's worded, but it says that backbiting, and I hope that I'm remembering this right, is worse than killing. No way. Worse than killing someone? Why, is worse than killing. No way. Yeah. Worse than killing someone?

Yeah. Why is it worse than actually taking a life? So the Quran is very poetic as well, and I think that it's just to show the severity of it. Yeah, it's just to show the severity of it. And then I say, so, you know, you leave this message in comment, and then you go to your family and you talk about me, like like you're committing a huge sin too not that i'm you know i'm not i'm not trying to have like an eye for an eye but i'm just trying to point out the irony like very stupid thing but a couple weeks ago i posted a picture you probably saw on my instagram page in jeans. Yes. And you should have seen some of the messages I received.

Watch yourself now. Get a little risky. Get a little risque out there. Yeah. Revealing too much in jeans. So I couldn't believe the amount of hate I received. And then you posted another one with your jeans, right? Yeah.

Yeah, you talked about it. Oh, yeah. And I'll continue to do that. Why do people hate so much on that just wearing jeans they remind me that you know as a muslim woman you should dress a certain way and um you know how how dare you represent us that way you represent the religion i say i actually don't you can't put the responsibility of the religion and all the atrocities that are happening out there. I don't even hurt a bug, you know, like I'm the type that if somebody got me a

cup of tea and, you know, I forgot it somewhere and, you know, I would text them later and say, I'm so sorry. You know, you went through the effort of getting me a cup of tea and I forgot it and I didn't drink it. That's who I am as a person. You can't tell me that everything that's going on out there in the name of Islam, you can't tell me I'm the one who's representing it. And why now? Why are you messaging me now? Why not for the last year and a half since my writings have been out to say?

Point something out that they don't like as opposed to acknowledging things that are meaningful. Exactly. Yeah. As opposed to acknowledging things that are meaningful. Exactly. Yeah. So, but at one point I stopped responding because it was just getting. Not worth it. Yeah. Sometimes when you give people the, when you're kind to them, they come back and they're like,

well, I'm questioning your intentions at this point. You know, like I shouldn't have spoken in the first place. Exactly. Yeah. Not out of lack of respect, but you get it. What do you think humanity needs the most right now? Empathy. Empathy.

We need to be able to put ourselves in other people's shoes, feel exactly how they're feeling before we utter a word. And that takes a lot of authenticity with ourselves and with the world. Because if we are not aware of our own feelings and are not willing to admit how we feel, acknowledge how the experiences that we went through shaped us. If we can't do that ourselves, we won't be able to relate to another person. So it has to start with being authentic with yourself to say, yeah, man, that was hard. So you see someone else struggling and you say, that must be hard. I'm not struggling the same way, but we share the struggle.

That's what our world needs for sure. Yeah. More empathy. More empathy. I've got this, you know, I'm working on this new message, this book about masculine vulnerability. And I feel like a lot of challenges arise from, especially right now in the world, are from men who are wearing masks. Yes. Who are showing up not their loving,

vulnerable, authentic selves for whatever reasons. The pain they're feeling, they're feeling rejected, they're feeling not accepted, they're feeling they need to protect their, what is their right, whatever it may be. What message would you have for men? The challenge is, here's the challenge. The reason I'm writing this book about masculinity is because I love Brene Brown and Oprah. I love Brene Brown. I just interviewed her. She's amazing. Really?

Yeah, she's amazing. I wish she was here before I was here. She's amazing. And I love all the women who are sharing these messages of being real and loving and authentic and opening up and being truthful about yourself, things like that. What I feel from my personal experience growing up in a sports mindset, most of the men that I grew up around were not open to those messages. And we had this conditioning from our peers,

from coaches, from media. Family, society. Just everything. If I ever tried to show any emotion in elementary school, it's like the other boys would just say, suck it up or don't be a wuss or other names. Be a man. Yeah, be a man. Man up. And women would say this too, you know, in relationships at times. Women would be like, just man up. Like, own it. Quit being so whatever. They need to come talk to me. Right.

But I mean, so there's a lot of mixed signals for men, I think. Yeah. And listen, we all get to be responsible for our actions and own things and, you know, be in ownership and not make excuses for whatever's happened. Yes. And the reason I'm doing this is because I hope men will be able to see me and judge me in a way and be like, okay, maybe I can relate to this guy. Judge me in a good way. And say, okay, he looks like me. He talks like me. Like he kind of gets it. You're using your privilege in the right way. That's my intention

to Trojan horse men in some sense to get them, hey, come hang out. Let's be bros. Yes. Because I can be the bro at the best of them. And just start to have more real open conversations about this and create a safe space for men to really just share the things they're shameful about, reveal things that maybe that really hurt them that they've never talked about that just have been bottling up inside. And I hope that I'm able to be a catalyst for some people. Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of men aren't willing to listen to women. Some aren't.

But if they were willing right now, what would you say for them? First, I'm going to give you some hope because I get many messages from men. That's great. Thank you for the writings that I do and how I talk about vulnerability. Going back to the previous question that you asked me, authenticity, empathy, but at the root of that is vulnerability. You can't be authentic if you're not vulnerable, right? Because vulnerability, that is the birthplace of connection, right? You don't connect with someone unless you have that authenticity piece.

So if men were listening, and I don't want to generalize, just to not make anybody feel like they're... And I try not to as well. I've been attacked by so many people. So I try to be as politically correct in my language as possible. Sometimes I get men who message me and say, no, not all men are like that.

Of course, no, not all are. You have to realize that I'm talking to a person who shattered me to dust. So I'm going to talk with that kind of passion and pain. My pain is driving what I'm writing, right? So not to generalize, but to say this to men, I think... Men may be who aren't vulnerable or open. Or afraid of being vulnerable because, oh, I also receive the messages that say, well,

I've been vulnerable and they just use it against me. That's true. Yeah. And that's when men put their masks on even stronger. Yeah. They're like, okay, I'm going to defend myself even more. Yeah. I felt the same way at times. Because girls like bad boys and all that stuff, right? So there's a lot of even stronger. Yeah. They're like, okay, I'm going to defend myself even more. Yeah. I felt the same way at times. Because girls like bad boys and all that stuff, right?

So there's a lot of mixed signals. Yeah, there's a lot of challenges there. I would tell men to be vulnerable for their own sake and for the children that they will one day have. Be vulnerable for the little boy who's looking up to you, who's going to be a man one day. Be vulnerable for yourself, not for the person who is receiving it. Because when you think, when you attach your vulnerability to the way that your partner reacts to it, you're going to hate it. because you're going to say,

I was kind and, you know, she took advantage of me. I was, you know, I'd listen to her at the end of every day and where I'd come and talk to her at the end of every day and she would tell me to man up or whatever. Don't be vulnerable just to please the other person because you think that that's what they're expecting. Be vulnerable for yourself because it's such a liberating feeling to know that you are being honest and you are being authentic and you're not hiding anything. If the person that you're with takes that as weakness, that's not the person you're meant to be with. And trust me, there are many people out there, including myself, who see vulnerability and love seeing it. And they're actually seeking it or think that it's very rare. So focus on what your vulnerability does for you instead of what it does for the person

that you're giving it to. I think the more I've become vulnerable over the last four or five years and really starting to open up more about my experience, I felt like it's been the ultimate power, to be honest. I felt like it's been the ultimate power, to be honest. Like I've been able to powerfully lead my life with clarity, freedom, without suffering and the pain that I used to be attached to. And also it's allowed me to connect with people on such a more intimate and deep level that I never could before, which supported my vision,

which helped me in my business, which helped me in my relationships. It all helped me more because I was willing to open up more. I think when we hold back, we can never truly connect with people in a way that is going to move us forward in a powerful way. Holding back is like covering yourself. You don't feel like you're authentically yourself unless you are with yourself you're you're isolating yourself from everyone else around you and it becomes a very heavy weight to carry with you but when you open up and you say this is who i am i know you might judge me i know you might

not like this version of a man who i am, but this is who I am. This is what manliness means to me because this is what humanity means to me. Being a human being means to me. And if we really want to advance the human race, just thinking of future generations, we need to break, we need to let that mask fall off. We really do. That's it. Yeah. I want to have you read a poem from each one of your books.

Okay. Let's start with Mind Platter. Let's start with Mind Platter. And what was the context of this book? Why did you write this? Okay. Mind Platter is a compilation of journal entries. These are my journal entries.

I wrote them not thinking that they would ever be published. I never thought I would be a writer. Did I tell you what I did my undergraduate degree in? No. Guess. Engineering? No. I don't know. I was just trying to think of something. Science.

Okay. No one believes that because I actually, I don't look like I'm a person who's into science. I did it because my family wanted me to. So I started writing when I started teaching a group of refugees who came to Canada. And I started healing from the pain of that 16-year-old when I started helping them adapt to life here by writing for them. So these are journal entries that took place over three years. I would share these writings with them. They would share them with their friends and families, and then a few teachers here and there would see them, and they all said, you need to put this into a book. So I just compiled them

and put them into a book. That's the context. Yeah. The one I will read today is the very first. I actually would like to read the dedication of mind platter. It's just short one. And then I would like to read you are the sun to the heart and you don't be afraid to feel to the sun and you don't be afraid to shine to the love and, don't be afraid to shine. To the love in you, don't be afraid to heal. To the ocean in you, don't be afraid to rage. To the silence in you, don't be afraid to break. That's the dedication. And you are the sun. For them to see you shine, you must stay far away. For you are just like the sun. When you're too close, your light makes them blind. And when you're too far, they seek you.

So let them seek you. They're getting your light regardless, but appreciating your presence is different from recognizing your existence. If they don't appreciate your presence, they may never even recognize your absence. So this stemmed from a personal experience. See, they all did. From this one.

That one. Why did you write this one? That one was, why did I write that one? The nectar of pain. The nectar of pain. What does that even mean? The sweetness from pain? Yeah.

So what you could, how you can turn your pain into sweetness. Because we tend to make our, to allow our pain to make us bitter. So I will read the dedication of this one to give the context. So I started with, why the nectar of pain? They asked me, how is your soul able to give so much love to this world? I said, there is a sweetness in the nectar that bees seek for honey. There is a sweetness in you that every sting and every pain seek to make love. Do not allow your pain to make you bitter. Turn it into the sweet nectar that your soul contains and gives as a

sign of strength and resilience after it's shattered. So that's the meaning of the nectar of pain. This one is one of my favorites. The day you walked into my life, I felt like the chosen one. How could a king like him love a free soul like mine? How could he love you, you fool? The distance you'd have to run is far too far. And the soldiers of the battles you'd have to win are gone, long gone. He's championed wars, and you're still training to fight. He's run marathons, and you're still learning to walk. He's conquered cities, and

you're still learning the maps. He's sailed oceans, and you're still building your boat. He sailed oceans and you're still building your boat. It must be your foolish mind crafting stories with invisible ink and reading between lines that don't exist. Then you told me that you loved my smile and the time after that you asked me what perfume it was that I wore. I felt so lucky that a man like you wanted me in a kingdom like yours. And when the gates opened and I entered inside, I saw nothing that pleases the eye. You see, you worked so hard to build your fort, but forgot to tidy what's inside.

The years had tainted your every corner with the torture that you'd inflicted on every visitor. And now I look back and think, what a fool you were to think that you could conquer a queen's kingdom like mine. What a fool. Powerful. What a fool.

Gosh. I love it. I love it. Yeah, that's one of my favorites in The Nectar of Pain. I think that was one of the turning points. And talking about the things I found inside, that's the vulnerability piece. Of course. And uncovering things.

If you don't work on tidying what's inside, no one wants to enter. And anyone who wants to enter will just leave scarred. And that will define who you are as a person because you scar people, right? Yeah. I want to wrap it up with a couple of final questions. Yeah. Is there any question that you wish I did ask you first? Yeah. I want to wrap it up with a couple of final questions. Yeah. Is there any question that you wish I did ask you first? No.

I think you asked everything. Okay. Yeah. This is called The Three Truths. Okay. And if this was the final day for you many years from now, and you've achieved everything you wanted to achieve, lived the exact life from here on out,

all the pain and the love you experienced at all, wrote every book you wanted to achieve, live the exact life from here on out, all the pain and the love you experienced at all, wrote every book you wanted to write, but for whatever reason, all your creations were lost and erased. And all you had was a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you knew to be true about all of your experiences in life. Oh, God. These could be three lessons that you would leave behind. What would you say are your three truths?

Things about me or things to my audience? Things that you would share. This would be kind of like the message that the world would have about. To remember me. To remember you. Again, the lessons. One second. Yeah.

Perfect timing. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. I'll have to think. That's a strong question. Tell me three lessons that you would share. Like if someone, you know, your three lessons about life or your experience. The very first one is be yourself for yourself, not for people. So focus on your own actions instead of reacting to people. The second one

would be the one who broke you cannot heal you. Healing has to come from within you. Self-healing is the most important thing, taking ownership of your healing. And the third one is these mountains that you are carrying, you're only supposed to climb. No struggle that comes your way is meant to be carried with you everywhere you go. It's meant to be conquered. It's meant to be climbed and championed. Those are the three lessons that I would leave. I love that. That final one is powerful.

I want to acknowledge you for a moment. Oh, dear. I want to acknowledge you for a moment for your incredible courage to stay empathetic and compassionate, even through the pain and the hurt and the struggle that you face when someone took advantage of you or multiple people have taken advantage of you, because it takes a lot of courage to continue to be loving, open, giving, and put your message out there. So the fact that you continue to share your truth, even though you may look different or sound different or be different than so many people, is so courageous in my mind.

Thank you. And I really acknowledge you for having that courage to share your truth. So thank you. Thank you very much for saying that. Yeah, of course. I thank you for the same. to share your truth. Thank you very much for saying that. I thank you for the same. Before I ask the final question, I want to make sure people get your book. This is the new one, The Nectar of Pain. Go grab it right now.

First one, Mind Platter. We'll have it linked up on the site as well. And we can connect with you on Instagram. Yes. It's Najwa Zab Yes. It's Najwa... Zabian. Zabian. It's just one word.

We'll have Najwa Zabian. We'll have it all linked up for you guys. Do you have a website as well? Yeah, NajwaZabian.com. Okay, perfect. Yeah. Anywhere else we should connect with you? You can find me on Facebook, Twitter.

Everywhere. Yeah, pretty much. You tweet a lot too, yeah. I do tweet a lot. Yeah, I like that. I see you on there a lot. I remind people of many things lot too, yeah. I do tweet a lot. I like that. I see you on there a lot. Remind people of many things. Yes, yes.

Cool. The final question then is what's your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is being true to yourself, Being true to your story. Owning your story. Being authentic with yourself. Because when you do that, that greatness honestly emanates from inside of you. And it just effects change in the world. It has to start with you. It has to start with you. It has to start with you being truthful

with yourself, with what your true core is, what your weaknesses are and strengths, being true to that, admitting what you went through, how you overcame it, owning all of that, saying this is who I am. that alone makes you great. And it just gives you that push that will propel you into the world. That's my definition. Bravo. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Appreciate you. Thank you. There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. I hope you're courageously leading your life with vulnerability, being your real and authentic self, and finding a way to love yourself fully and unconditionally. It's all about that inner growth, that inner peace. Again, big thank you to Najwa.

She was a massive hit at the Summit of Greatness. So make sure to share this out with your friends. The link is lewishouse.com slash 557. The full video interview is back on the website as well with all the resources and information about her books and everything that she is up to. My friends, thank you again so much. Again, from the words of Najwa Zabian,

if they don't appreciate your presence, they may never recognize your absence. I hope you're finding the time to connect to yourself today, to appreciate your own today, to appreciate your own presence, and to surround yourself with those that love you, that support you, that are there for you, and that want to lift you up into your greatness. You were born for a reason. Remember this. You were put here for a purpose. It's your duty and responsibility to figure out what that is every single day and walk one step closer on that path towards your purpose and your vision. I love you so very much. It means

the world to me that you're a part of this community. Make sure to come out on the book tour in Chicago, in Los Angeles, in San Diego, in Charlotte, lewishouse.com slash events to come see where I'm going on the book tour. If you haven't got your copy yet, check out the mask of masculinity. I love you and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.