The School of Greatness - 583 Build a Billion Dollar Brand with Revolve Co-Founder Michael Mente

Episode Date: December 31, 2017

"IT’S ALL ABOUT SHOWING PEOPLE A GENUINELY GOOD TIME." Being an entrepreneur is one of the most difficult tasks you can take on. In fact, some people find it soul crushing if not done right. When done properly, though, it can be the greatest thing you can do in your life. Starting as an entrepreneur means knowing what you really want to do, what your passion is and how to deliver that to consumers. It’s not about pushing it on them but listening to them and seeing how you can serve them. Most entrepreneurs stop as soon as they hit success and sell off their company, but not all of them. On this episode, we are joined by Michael Mente, who has been successful since 2003 when he helped create the incredibly popular clothing company: REVOLVE. “All we are doing is listening to the consumer and giving them what they want.” Michael Mente dropped out of an Entrepreneur program at the University of Southern California to become an entrepreneur by profession. He’s Currently the CEO and Co-Founder of Revolve and is set to bring in $400 million in sales this year. His company is considered the one-stop shop for clothing items designed by some of the hottest emerging designers. Over the years, Michael began developing organic relationships with bloggers to represent the brand on a more realistic level. To do so, Revolve regularly holds trips for influencers to gather, relax, and recreate the lifestyle of an ideal Revolve customer. Michael saw a gap between affordable and high end items, which provided grounds for him to create an online shopping experience that falls in the middle. Supporting up-and-coming designers and digital influencers has become the core of Revolve’s growth and they decided to expand their digital offerings by launching a sister company, FORWARD, in 2008. Since then FORWARD has grown to become a powerhouse in fashion and has become the go-to place for premier luxury fashion. I loved Michael's humble wisdom about what it has taken to create this kind of success in such a competitive industry. Discover all of that and much more, on Episode 583. "If it’s not enjoyable, what’s the point?” Some Questions I Ask: Would you say a lot of your sales come from Instagram? (10:46) In the beginning were you buying clothes wholesale? (13:41) What were you doing before REVOLVE? (15:40) What would you say is your biggest inspiration right now? (18:12) When did you realize you had a business that would take off? (21:38) How much money did you raise from one investor? (24:54) Do you think more people should be tapping into influencers for their brand? (28:41) What’s a good way to start approaching influencer marketers and celebrities? (36:54) How do you deal with the competition of other brands? (42:00) How have you evolved from being an entrepreneur by yourself to running an organization with so many employees? (45:39) What do you still need to learn in order to take your business where you want it to be? (49:00) How have you been consistently excited about your business for 15 years? (50:42) In This Episode You Will Learn: Just how long REVOLVE has been around (8:53) What made Michael say, “I want to get into women’s clothing.” (11:41) How they launched the same year as Zappos (14:56) When he knew he wanted to start his own business (17:24) The biggest risks he’s taken (19:41) When they decided to take on investors (23:39) The point when it becomes challenging for a company to continue its growth (26:06) How an influencer trip works (33:12) The biggest challenge for Michael right now (43:55) The most influential person in Michael’s life growing up (47:00) Michael’s advice to young entrepreneurs who want to start their own thing...

This is episode number 583 with Revolve co-founder Michael Mente. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome back, everyone, to another edition of the School of Greatness podcast. We are starting out powerfully in the new year, and I am just so pumped to be here with all of you. You know, again, as I reflect back on how amazing the last year was and really where we're headed to with this podcast,

almost five years of the podcast happening. And it just blows my mind to reflect on what we've been building together and the movement of greatness that we're all on board with. So thank you all for, again, being a part of this journey. We've got another powerful interview today. His name is Michael Mente, and he is the CEO and co-founder of Revolve, which is a popular online fashion retailer that has become one of the leading trendy fashion brands today.

And here's what I love about it. Revolve was founded in 2003. So in a world where everyone wants to start and launch something quickly and have it sell and make millions of dollars in the first year or first few months, they've been around for a long time. Pre-social media, they've had to learn and constantly reinvent and re-evolve their brand and their audience and so many different strategies to continue to grow. Again, they're getting close to a billion dollars in sales a year right now. And it just continues

to grow and grow and grow, right? And they have almost 2 million Instagram followers. They've got millions of email subscribers. They've got a large following. But one of their keys has been getting the biggest celebrities and influencers to feature their clothes and come to their big events and parties. And they are the brand and the event to go hang out at Coachella and other big events that are happening around the world. And I love the strategy behind what they do to find these partnerships with influencers and celebrities and get people to come to their events, which helps their overall brand and overall sales, which we're going to be talking about today is first, how to build trust with your audience when you're a pioneer in your industry. How do we build that trust? Also, how to decide what and when to scale in your business.

The best ways to build relationships with influencers. So how do you get these influencers to really get excited about your brand when you're just starting out? We cover that. Also, how to deal with massive competition in your industry. The online fashion space is constantly becoming more and more competitive with every influencer now having their own brand. So how do you compete with that? Also, why balance is as necessary as work ethic in order to succeed. And again, as someone who's been grinding it out and hustling for over 15 years now, we talk about really why balance is something that's important to Michael. Before we dive in, I want to give a shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Alec Maggio, who says, I think I'm addicted. And he left a review over

on iTunes. And Alec said, wow, I just found this podcast a week and a half ago, and it's all I've been listening to since. I really feel like a changed man. Inspirational, compelling, motivational, and so much more. You have shown me a completely new world of ideas. Thank you so much for what you do. I now can't wait to see what life has in store. This podcast is what makes me get out of bed in the mornings. Thank you. Well, Alec, thank you for being the fan of the week, and thanks for being a big supporter now, even though you just got in tune with us a week and a half ago. If you guys want a chance to get shouted out on the podcast, make sure to go to iTunes and leave a review, or you can go on your podcast app right now on your iPhone and leave a review in iTunes right there. We pick winners every single week to give shout

outs. As well, if you think you know someone in your life who could use this inspiration, this information, these tools, these strategies to help improve your life, improve your business, improve your health, your relationships, every aspect of your life. We're looking to take to the next level. That's what the movement of the School of Greatness is. How do we improve our lives on every area so we create maximum impact, maximum fulfillment, and maximum income in the process? So don't forget about that as well. I'm very excited, guys. We've got so many good things happening this year. All right, guys, I'm pumped for this episode right now. It's lewishouse.com slash 583. Go ahead and take a screenshot and tag

me on Instagram as you're listening to this. We've also got the full show notes and full video interview back at that link there, lewishouse.com slash 583. Without further ado, this is all about building a billion-dollar brand, scaling it up, and the art of influencer partnerships with Revolve co-founder and CEO, Michael Mente. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. we have michael mente in the house man thank you super glad you're here we got connected earlier this year someone mentioned me about you i didn't know who you were until someone brought up your name and then as i started digging in deeper learning about you being one of the founders of Revolve, this fashion brand that's been around for 15 years now.

Almost 15 years, crazy enough. Has now blown up. It seems like every big celebrity influencer on Instagram promotes you guys. It's at some event. It doesn't matter who it is. It's like everyone is promoting you in the female fashion space. We were talking earlier, you're gearing up close to hitting almost a billion in gross sales, total gross

sales for the brand, which is impressive, man. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thanks for having me. It's such an honor to be here. Of course, man. I've learned so much from you from the podcast and books, so it's such a privilege to be here.

Thanks for having me. Of course. And you started, I think you said, back in 2003. Yes. Pre-social media, pre-Google. Yes. Or maybe Google was around, but it was small. They were around, and they were a little smaller than Yahoo at the time.

Yahoo was still actually how we learned. That was the first digital marketing we ever did was Yahoo, and they put us on the map. It's crazy. Yeah. You're promoting on Yahoo, and so much has evolved in terms of marketing in the last 10, 12, 15 years. Definitely.

It's crazy. When social media came around early on, I remember it was Twitter was a big thing. Were you even using Twitter to promote or was it not even an effective platform for you guys? Because yours is more of a visual, seeing the clothes. Exactly. For Twitter, that was one thing that I know so many people use it as a great tool, but I can never crack it. We can never figure it out because it just wasn't visual enough. So honestly, we missed the boat when it was the sweet spot of Facebook days.

We really were great in the Google days, but we didn't really quite get Facebook right. But then when Instagram came out, that was something where a lot of the things we were trying to do were really able to be leveraged in Instagram in that kind of like 2010 and beyond era. But there was definitely so many different phases of having to, you know, evolve and get better and stay current. Would you say a lot of your sales, gross sales,

come from Instagram right now? Or is it pretty diverse? I think it's really diverse, and I think ultimately all of the channels kind of interact where it's like someone may see something on Instagram but then go on Google to search for it or someone may Google something but then ultimately see an ad elsewhere. We're really known for Instagram at the moment because I think a lot of the strategy is a little bit more ahead of the curve, a little bit more pioneering. We're doing a couple of different things or are strategies that other people are learning from, but that's just one layer, and then there's many other layers that have to be built.

So it's just a stack, and I think that's the thing. It's not just Instagram, boom, it's all good. It's like there's the fundamentals of Google, which we did back in the day, and it's still huge. I think Google's still a massive part of our budget. And then, of course, Facebook, Instagram, email, everything. Email's probably where you get the direct results from. When you send something out, you can see sales coming in, obviously.

What made you, early on, in 2003, say, I want to get into women's clothes? You know what's funny? It was purely analytical. Really? Yeah, it was purely analytical. In those days, a real good friend who's still a business partner of ours kind of showed us

you know what the company he was working at where you can you can actually see results of how many people were searching for what terms right and then you could also see

really transparently how much it would cost to be listed on Yahoo you know first or second or third so there's this awesome transparency where we can see people are searching for this when you do the actual women's fashion or shirts or skirts or third. So there's this awesome transparency where we can see people are searching for this.

When you do the actual fashion or shirts or skirts or whatever. Yeah. And then you see the results and they're like, sometimes there'll be results where like none of the results are selling the products. So we kind of like stumbled upon it and we realized that fashion,

there was a lot of people searching for fashion brands, but the fashion world was a little bit slower to come, you know, slower to adopt technology. They were doing retail, they weren't doing online. Exactly exactly they were just expecting you to come into stores or whatever definitely print ads it was a different world so there was like an opportunity there we tried a lot of different things and we were like okay a lot of quick failures of course in the early days we thought this brand's gonna be big this is gonna be whatever and it was like nothing crickets but then we came across again again, by chance,

that designer denim ended up being very important at that time. And that was also something where people were just hearing about it, younger consumer, and it was hard to find in physical stores, or very limited supply in physical stores. And they had to go online, and that's kind of where they're at. Premium denim. Yeah. Wow.

And so you saw it as an opportunity more than anything. You weren't necessarily passionate about female underwear, right? Hey, in different ways, not selling it. But you weren't trying to say, I want to become the new Victoria's Secret. Yeah. You were just like, here's an opportunity that people are missing out on. This whole internet thing is taking off. There's a big opportunity, and these brands are missing out on it.

But at the beginning, you didn't create your own brands, whereas now you have 12 different brands. Yeah, I think 13 now. 13 now. But then you were just, was it you were buying it wholesale and then selling it online?

Were you drop shipping? Yeah, exactly. It was buying wholesale, storing it in the house, and then shipping it to the consumer. And I think we were very lucky again that we were in the area in Los Angeles, and all the showrooms, 90% of the brands we carry

have showrooms in Los Angeles. So that was another aspect of luck that we stumbled upon that access and did a lot of homework there. So you could find people, get them at a really cheap wholesale rate, they would trust you guys and build a relationship. It was a lot of trust building. A lot of people were like, what the heck are you doing?

This is weird. No one was doing that. No, very, very few. Some of the department stores had early websites that were experimental, not necessarily as serious. So they existed. Not much. There was literally a lot of brands with next to nothing.

Or the competitors were there were still quite young. They may have been one or two years old as well. So it was kind of like early, early days. Which is kind of like Zappos was for shoes. Exactly. Zappos was our model. It was something that we did the same exact things at the same time, kind of just by observing

the marketplace. And we kind of weren't aware of them. But then, of course, we started to see them blow up and become something. And we had to evolve to something else. Wow. Okay. Did you guys launch the same year

or were they before you guys? I think we launched maybe a year before us or so. Kind of the same period. Yeah. Didn't Amazon buy them? Yes. Amazon bought them

for like a billion or something? I think maybe a little bit. Yeah, about a billion and change and that was probably right around recession time. 2009 or something? Yeah, I think around then.

Yeah, I think around then, yeah. I think I remember something about their VCs sending out a letter where everyone had to buckle down. They needed to sell it. Exactly. Because how much were they doing in sales? Do you remember a year? I don't remember, actually.

I don't remember what the multiple and what was going on then. I wonder if they were reaching a billion in sales. You don't think they were? It depends on the measurement. But the revenues. Yeah. I remember reading the book. I don't remember the exact year, but I think they did hit a billion in sales. You don't think they were? It depends on the measurement. But the revenue is... Yeah. I remember reading the book.

I don't remember the exact year, but I think they did hit a billion in gross sales prior to the acquisition. Right, right. Okay. Interesting. What were you doing before all this? Weren't you in a software business or something?

Yeah. Before, I was lucky enough to be in college during that first dot-com boom, but not lucky enough to be out in the workforce long enough to really capitalize. So I worked at a software startup, and that's where I met my business partner. The best thing about that whole experience,

I met my business partner. This was 2000, 2001. And it was a random software startup. Right out of college. Right out of college. And you went to school as an engineer, or what did you go to school for? That's funny.

I went to school specifically to USC because they have a great entrepreneurship program. But the funny thing is I left a year early to pursue startup work.

So I never actually did the entrepreneur program. So it was actually a finance background, a finance major. Cool. And the cool thing

is that now my business partner manages all the finances and he's so ironic. Amazing. So you guys met at the software company,

the company didn't work out or you just were like, let's try something else. Yeah. It was just like all, you know, 99% of the other startups of that day that were just a lot of, a lot of capital flying around and a lot of startups. And conceptually I still, you know, I still think that it was software systems that help manage enterprise strategy. And I think, you know, we still do it a little old school where it's like PowerPoint and Excel. And the idea of making it a little bit smoother and easier and simplified,

but also with depths of data integrated. I like the concept still, but also the methodology and things. There's a lot of challenges there. And it was also that time where selling software to corporate America was very exciting in the 90s. There's a lot of big companies doing awesome things. And then now, post-internet era, that kind of model is a little bit different.

Did you always know you wanted to be an entrepreneur or start your own business growing up? Or was this something through the years that you kind of developed? I think there was always something there. And I think it was not necessarily an entrepreneur. I think for me, the criteria was very clear is that I wanted to be in a field where I could put as much as I can into it and get as much as I can

out of it and there was not necessarily time limitations or educational limitations or this very structured path where I can just go all in, assume some risk, which I guess is very entrepreneurial but I thought that potentially could have happened in other paths, like an engineer or something like that.

That was debating becoming a programmer and working in the world from that side of things. But I ended up going straight to pure entrepreneurialism like Howard Gates. What would you say is the biggest inspiration for you guys right now? Is there a brand or a person that inspires you from what they're doing?

You know, that's a tough one. I think all my examples maybe are a little bit cliche, but super amazing, man. Like Jeff Bezos is incredible. Like, you know, the way he started his business and the way through the different, you know, changes of the world and the different opportunities, he's been able to grow and build and adapt

as the world changes, sees opportunities, big opportunities, and pursues them, but still has an extremely long-term, very, very ambitious goal. I think that's probably a lot of inspiration for a lot of people, but definitely someone that we look up to very much.

Sure, sure. What about Wexner? That's Wexner from Limited Brands. Is that a guy that you're aware of? Not super. I think he started Victoria's Secret too, I think. Yes. I think those guys and also Ortega at Zara,

the top five richest people in the world making clothes. It's incredible. Crazy. It's incredible. Is he from Spain? Is that where this is? Spain, yes. Is the top five richest?

I think so. And the coolest thing to me is that- For Zara, huh? Yeah. They actually have multiple chains, but I think Zara is the biggest one. I don't know. A lot of things on a personal level, we look up to them in the sense that it does zero press,

super low key. And I think that my partner and I would like to do that. I don't know if you can do that in this world anymore where the consumer really wants to know the big corporate anonymity. Who's behind the brand. Yeah. So I think it's a different world. But that's something that we respect about him

and obviously the massive business that he's built there. What would you say is one of the biggest risks that you've taken that paid off and the one that hurt you the most? You've been doing this for 15 years now. I think the biggest risk was really when we first started because we started with just our own capital and we were, call it, two years out of college

so whatever we can save out of for two years was like, alright, this is what we got let's figure something out Let's buy some clothes and promote it It doesn't sound massive but for us it was the biggest bet we ever made but to launch the website and have our first tester selection

was probably about, I think it was $16,000 specifically. And I was like, all right, let's buy $16,000 worth of clothes, see how this goes. Worst case, I don't know what we're going to do. Maybe we'll recover half of it on eBay or something weird like that and start selling one by one somewhere or whatever. But that was kind of like that big leap of faith where it was like

the minimum amount of investment we can make but still have a big enough test where we can see if this worked. So that was probably the biggest risk that paid off. And what happened when you guys launched it with those $16,000 worth of units? You know what's funny? The first few brands that we thought were going to be awesome didn't work

and one of the second tier brands which was a little bit less you know significantly less known worked for us it was like a like there was like the big denim brands and this was like a second tier denim brand and you know celebrities were wearing them it was like a little bit more occulty and that worked for us then started buying more and more and more and then because you know those guys were actually the only ones who would sell to us like the big brands at the time wouldn't sell to us. So we're like, we're going to go to your competitors and see who would be

interested. And then someone believed in us or someone needed that support and needed to sell. Yes, you have money, we'll take it. And it worked. And that was really what got that initial momentum. It wasn't out the gates, but it was probably five, six weeks in

where we're like, okay, we've got something now. Wow. When did you realize that you actually had a business that could continue to take off? Was it right in that moment? Was it year two and three after testing a bunch of stuff? Were you like, oh, we have a brand that did a million dollars in sales, and now we can keep growing?

It was early, but also maybe never in the sense that- Really? Yeah. Still today. Still today. It took some degree because we've been through some interesting times where in the early days, we started to sell some stuff. We started to see some consistent business. The first standard was, I think this can support both of us living.

That was where we can continue to work and we don't have to get jobs. I think that was probably in the first three to six months or so. We were still probably collecting unemployment checks, just trying to figure things out at that point. So I think fairly early on... We're making a few thousand a month. It covers the bills, we can eat, we can pay the rent. So that was kind of like the first level.

But of course, it's still very fragile. But then the company continued to grow, but then 2008, we almost went out of business. Because of the recession? Recession. Really? Yeah, really. Within a two-week period, sales dropped by 40%.

And we had no financial backers, it was just us. And the whole industry just kind of massive slowdown. All of the department stores, everyone just discounted the whole stores at 50% off, and it was just a really crazy time. So even though at that point we were doing maybe $40 to $50 million, we were still like fighting for our lives, and we had no financial backers,

and of course that's when all the banks and those scary times, that's when all the money goes away. So that was a challenging time too. So I think we always still have this little bit of edge of like, 07, we thought, whoa, we're really ahead. And then 08, we're fighting for our lives. And I think now we still have that scar and that fear, like that recession survivor mentality

where it's like, got to be very protective. Who knows what's going to happen? There's always elements of risk, so we're always on our toes. Just 10 years though. It's been 10 years from there, but you're still like, okay, let's make sure we have money for a rainy day or for whatever, right? Exactly. Interesting. And then did you take on investors at some point?

Around nine years into the business, we took on investors. And I think that was actually one thing, a risk that we did not take that ended up being really good for us. And that from the founding to the recession, we met a lot of investors and we saw a lot of interesting things, but we just didn't feel like we can be partners with somebody. It felt like it was exciting to be like, you're 25 and here's

a $20 million check. I think that took a lot of discipline on our part to be like, no, we don't really want your money. We don't want to be partners with you. We like what we have and we're going to protect what we have because you're going to have a different vision and values than we're going to have. I think that was super important. But in 2012, we'll take the meetings from time to time and we turned down a lot of different things, but we found someone who really understood what we were trying to do in a nuanced way. It was like

a lot of the money in the times past and I think this mistake has happened to other entrepreneurs in the fashion space when a lot of technology investors try to build it and scale it like a technology company but really more of a consumer brand company. And I found the right investors who we felt that understood that and it's been great since

then. It'll be five years ago and like five on the dot in 10 days. It's been a good relationship. Amazing. Are you able to share how much you raised? Is that public? That's public, yes. It was $40 million. $40 million from one investor or venture capital fund?

One private equity firm. It's a little bit blended and blurred. A portion of it went to the business and then a portion of it went to my partner and I. And I think that there's a number of different things where it all made sense, where after the recession, we were scared, very, very conservative. And we were leaving money on the table. We weren't scared to just keep putting all the money back into the business as we did for

the previous nine years because there's no cushion. So this was the perfect situation where we can build a little bit on the side, you know, personally where we could be a lot more aggressive with the business again. And I think that mentality really, really changed the business because since then our growth has accelerated. Since then, you know,

the business has in the past five years, the business is probably, you know, between four or five times the size. So it's been like super beneficial for both of us. And it wasn't necessarily that money into the business, which of course helps, but you know, that's, you know, between four or five times the size. So it's been like super beneficial for both of us. And it wasn't necessarily that money into the business, which of course helps, you know, that's, you know, no doubt was an important part,

but it was really of the mindset of like, be aggressive again and pursue it. The opportunity is there. It's a great time to pursue things. Do you believe that it's really challenging for a company to grow past a certain point without infusing an investment of ad and media spending do you think it's going to be really hard unless you're investing back into the promotional side of things i guess it depends on

and bringing on more people or can you grow with you know the same a small group and continue to two three four x every year i guess it depends on how fast that growth is and like what type of business it is. You know what I mean? For us, dealing with physical products, certain aspects have to grow. There's this portion of the business that has to grow as the revenue grows,

where just things like customer service, picking and packing, things like that. But then for us, there's also other organizations that don't have to grow as much. This team is awesome. The company can be three, four times as big and this team can grow 10% because they're built, they're amazing,

they work together well. Got systems, their processes. Exactly. So I think it really does vary. But also depending on the business, we really see that back into marketing. I guess it depends on the kind of marketing plans where it's like, if there is a good plan,

I feel like we have a good plan. We're in invest mode where we think we have something that works. But there's been periods in times past where there wasn't extra opportunity to invest the money. So we had to be a little bit more patient where certain channels for us, like say a lot of the digital channels,

like we have to be disciplined because if you want to put more money to work, it gets way less efficient. So it's like we're calibrated at a good level. But our brand spend, we feel actually, the more money to work, it gets way less efficient. So it's like we're calibrated at a good level, but our brand spend, we feel, actually, the more you spend, it actually gets easier and there's definitely some scalability for it.

So there's these two aspects of marketing that operate, they work together, but they have different principles and different approaches and we have to separate the two. And when you mean the brand spend, you mean more of the influencer events and things like that?

Influencer events and media and things like that versus Influencer events and kind of like media and things like that versus like the digital side where it's like a little bit more functional where it's like the Google and the Facebook and like the, you know. This is something I think you guys do really well is you've figured out a way to like curate all these top influencers, whether it be from Instagram or YouTube or just social media influencers and celebrities in general. And you do these really high-end curated events for them, right?

Definitely. Where you'll go to different destinations. You'll create content for them. You'll give them clothes, create content, bring them together. You create a unique experience. I feel like that's one of the things that I learned about you guys early on is something you did because I saw your guys' brand everywhere promoted by these influencers. Now, what's the process for that?

Or how much are you allowed to share of what you guys do there? And why are they effective? And do you think more people should be really tapping into influencers in general for their brand? Yeah, definitely. This is an exciting part of the business. I think a part that I spend a lot of time. But for us, the interesting thing is that it has been very organic and very long-term

where we first started working with influencers in 2009, I believe. And that was before they were called influencers. So it's kind of like, they were all bloggers at the time. And that was a platform. You have to literally create your own platform to communicate with the world.

And that was before Facebook was really core and before Instagram was so visual. So that was something that we've been developing and nurturing and evolving for many, many years. The world has continued to evolve. And of course, we're staying very focused on how things go. So our previous experience and relationship with influencers, experimenting with blogs and such really made a lot more sense with the rise of Instagram.

So that created a good platform and centralized platform for all of our consumers as well as all of the influencers to be. And as that's continued to get bigger and bigger and bigger, it's been more and more powerful. We've done some stuff where, it's funny, actually after this I'm going to a meeting to think about collaborations with influencers and the ideas are actually ideas that we tried four or five years ago and weren't as powerful, but we were a little bit

ahead of the curve then. So it's been a long time spent, but I think the one thing for us that's been really key is that it has to just really be authentic and organic. I think if it was a situation where you could spend money and receive the returns, the big guy would always win.

The corporate guys would just be throwing money everywhere and it would work. But I think for it to work, I think it really has to be genuine and authentic. Unique and creative. Exactly. The influencer really, in my opinion, really has to be a fan of the brand for it to really work

versus attempt to sell something that they don't necessarily care about. So I think that was super important. When did you realize, wow, this event was a massive success? These celebrity influencers. It's been so gradual. I think that's the benefit.

I think that's also our mentality. Test it a little bit, invest as minimum as possible, but enough to get a proper test and then try to scale it up we're never too aggressive up front so i think you know a good example of this is um actually yesterday the team was out in palm springs prepping for coachella and i think we're starting to get known for the biggest party at coachella and i think last year was incredible

i think we had massive parties super fun thousands of people i think it was kind of like a rival to the actual festival, kind of unintentionally. So that was amazing. And the thing was, we had thousands and thousands of people. It was completely free for everyone. And afterwards, maybe we should have charged people. But the funny thing is, it was a very humble beginning where the first Coachella event that we have wasn't really an event. I think it was, I believe it was 2010, and it was with just two friends who were influencers who are still good friends to this day. We all just went and rented a house,

just like friends, like everyone does. And it really started to make a little bit of sense of like, we can make this not just fun, I think next year we can make it a business marketing opportunity. So they went from two influencers, my good friends Ami and Julie, who were actually going on a trip together

I guess only in 10 days. But then the next time we did it a little bit bigger, half a dozen people. And then last year I think there was, between the people that we hosted and people coming, I think it was several, I think close to 500 or so, something crazy like that.

Influencers? Yes. So it's just crazy now. Holy cow. 500 influencers will come to an event. I think the Kios just try to deliver something that we would want to go to. Of course. So we had a mini festival. So we had Rick Ross perform and Migos perform and Ray Schremer.

Actually, Drake ended up coming and Leo Leo was there. And Kendall was there. Kendall Jenner. And, like, you know, it was just like we got to host people, show them an authentically good time that we would want to come to. Like, that's kind of the goal. Like, would we line up to go to this party? If we aren't here, are we going to be, you know, FOMO? Right, right. And I think that's kind of like the standard.

And I think ultimately really being in the eyes of delivering something to them. And I think ultimately's kind of like the standard. And I think ultimately really being in the eyes of delivering something to them. And I think ultimately it comes back. Of course. Yeah. So tell me the model of like a trip you're going to be doing, like you're going on a trip soon. How does that model work? How many influencers will go? What do you provide for them? Is it more about like just having a good trip and experience to some exotic location where you've got video and photographers taking great content from them that they can use. And if they're wearing the clothes, great.

How does the whole thing work? How much would it cost? See, I think we've developed a way where our methodology is like, we can do it on different scales. So over the course of the last year, probably the smallest one may have been maybe like five or six.

The biggest one will be a month in the Hamptons with maybe 70, every weekend for four weeks, and there'll be maybe 12 influencers per weekend. We've developed a way where it's scalable, where we don't have to do a month-long thing where we can do a three or four-day event. So I think that's also the benefit

of we've been able to figure out the nuances of that. And each time there's core principles, but then there's a lot of things that are completely different. Some people you're paying, other people they're getting just like swag and they're getting their trip paid for and it depends on kind of like the level of person it is.

It's a total, total range. It really depends on the people. The people that we work with will be literally the biggest fashion influencer on the planet. Or sometimes on one of the trips, it'll be like someone who's been working with us for many, many years is literally like 0.01% of that person. But still is just a good little community. So there's a whole range of people. So it's a, you know, entire spectrum, but really it's just like, for us, it's, it's so cool in that, like the concept of just like living your best life.

It's also this combination of what, like, what do we think is awesome because it's probably going to be relevant to them and it's going to be relevant to our consumer mistake. We always used to do like, what would other companies do? And then when we looked in the mirror, what do we really want to do? We started like, oh, maybe we should go here and do that. Or maybe we should go to

Croatia for the summer and do this. And we're like, okay, let's try it out. We built up some successes and it worked awesome. So now we're like, okay, what else do we want to do? I think it is the combination of really showing people a genuinely good time. I think that when you see the photos,

there's just a sense of fun. And people are really enjoying themselves. And I believe it's because people really are enjoying themselves. It really shows. The visual imagery, of course, is an important part of it. It wouldn't be as exciting mixing in with just like us at Shake Shack or whatever. But having

a very beautiful aspirational but still accessible kind of lifestyle that's genuinely fun. And I think ultimately the way I look back to and of course this is different for everyone's brand but I think what we sell is a premium aspirational product that's still accessible something that you aspire towards and you crave but also something

that's still inclusive that a large portion of the market can really afford and this type of product is meant for being social in the sense that you know we sell all apparel categories but really it's like that that feeling you get when you put, as a dude, whether it's hanging out with your friends or going out to a party or going to a really business event, you put on your nice shirt or jacket and then you just feel good. Or you even

just go to the gym, you've got your nice gym clothes, you're like, I'm ready to work. And I think that's the kind of feeling of fun and socializing that we try to capture with just a broad marketing. That's what our of feeling of fun and socializing that we try to capture with kind of just a broad marketing. That's what our brand is about. That's great. Now, there's a lot of entrepreneurs that do listen.

And for those that haven't tapped into influencer marketing or celebrity marketing yet, but they want to tap into it. Maybe they don't have these massive budgets, but they've got a little bit of money to spend. And they may be in fashion or some other type of business. It doesn't matter. Any type of brand. How would you suggest is a good way to start approaching influencers and celebrities in order to get them to promote their brand or be a part of their brand? Is it through... Because I get sent swag all the time and I'm like, I just throw it away. So what's the creative way that you think works for you guys that any brand, small or big, could

use as reaching out to potential influencers? I think like that. And building those relationships because you've done an amazing job of keeping the relationships too, right? Sustaining those relationships. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's an important part. But in this day and age, it's easy to actually contact them, whether you're DM or LinkedIn or whatever research you do. Twitter, whatever, yeah.

So it's easy to establish that. But I think it's like, one, there's a whole range of influencers from super mega to micro and local. They are powerful in their own ways. So I think it's first finding the influencers that truly resonate with the brand. Understanding what your brand is about and then finding the people that really represent that.

I think that has to be real. It's not just bigger the better, more numbers the better. Of course that's relevant, but at the same time we all have budgets and we can't just work with the biggest and best. There's plenty of people that I would love to work with i just feel like it would be you know financially irresponsible to do so so i think finding the influencers like kim kardashian

might be like way too much exactly right yeah and it's like you can do it it's possible i'm sure like a lot of us can do it is it going to make sense is she really represent the brand in that right way maybe there makes sense for some brands where her personal brand is in complete alignment with the brand. But I think that has to be there. And then just approaching people as genuine fans. People that we work with, we really respect and admire.

There's people that we don't work with because they're just not necessarily the type of people that we want to work with. But the people that we really work with are people that we're genuine fans as well. And I think that'll come across as important that what they're doing mirrors and reflects and is aligned with what we're trying to do

and finding those right people. And I think that sense of upfrontness of attempting to work in professionalism with that genuineness of like, I'm really a fan of what you do. I think we can do this, something awesome together. And also thinking long term where it's not just

one and done let's you know can we can you tag me or can you do this but like how can we work together in mutually beneficial ways that you know I think that's an important thing that what can you offer them yes and that's when I guess that's like the core of business right where it's like

you're building greater than the parts. Together, you guys are more powerful than you guys alone, the influencer and the brand or business partners, whatever. I think that's something to always keep in mind as well. It's like, how can you support them? And if the brand alignment is there, if the brand and product or service is aligned with the influencer, then it should be quite clear that both can build together.

I'm making an assumption here. You tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you can reach out to them and say, hey, we'd love to do just a free photo shoot or video shoot lifestyle of just you and your day and we're happy to give you some of the clothes or we can just give you some great photos that you can use. It might be something that you do.

I'm not even sure. Totally on that level. Especially when it's very scrappy and bootstrap days, that's exactly how we'd approach things. Where it's like, we definitely can't, we don't have this budget, we don't even have a budget, especially when we first experimented. And I think when we did actually start working with influencers,

it was zero budget. It was just like, we can't allocate money to, because this is just like, could be completely wasted. So it was like, how do we do it in ways that are effective that will give us a conviction to put money behind it. And it was done

in a very organic low budget kind of just like person to person connection. Right. How can we build together? That's cool. And are you reaching out personally to these influencers

or is it other people on your team that are kind of At this point now it's a lot of other people. I think like over the past you know I think there's some loose numbers.

I think over the past year, we may have worked with around 5,000. So it's become a little bit more process and system-oriented. You can't do that all day yourself. Exactly. But a lot of, majority if not all of the people that we work with that are the most established people and the most powerful people are genuine personal relationships

that we've developed over the years. Or it's like, I know, you know, I just found someone and I'm friends with her sister. Like we'll, we'll like spend time and, uh, you know, do running together or whatever it may be. Sure. Sure. And, uh, we're friends, you know, and have relationships outside. So great. Now so much has evolved in your business and the industry where you were just selling other people's clothes for the first, however many years many years to you decided to do your own brand right you started to hire your own designers in-house manufacturer you know create your own brands now you have 13 i think you said yes what's the challenge been i guess since like 2012 there's been it seems like thousands of new brands yeah definitely almost seems like there's a thousand new brands every year that come out in fashion. Maybe I'm wrong here, but it just seems like tons of new brands. And then every

influencer now wants to have their own brand. So how do you deal with that competition? Is that a challenge where maybe some of the influencers you've been working with and sponsoring or helping out now are assuming some of them have their own legging lines or whatever, their own brands. Is that right? Definitely. How do you manage that when each influencer is now like, you know what? I'd rather not promote you anymore because I got my own brand.

What's that like? I think it's dynamic. And I think every situation is unique. Like, no doubt, there are so many brands coming out. And it seems like across the fashion industry, but across everywhere. Everything's so much more accessible. Manufacturing isn't

how challenging it was 20 years ago. It's a little bit more commodified. I think levels of playing field, which is amazing in many ways. Why we're able to create our own brand so powerfully is that we have the competitive advantage, is that we have a lot of data. We can see that, oh, wow,

people are really rapidly clicking on this category and we don't have a good selection here. Let's go make some stuff. So it's not really like what the designer and the human creative is just, I want to do this. It is data and opportunity then layered in with someone who can interpret that very well.

So that's why we're able to launch these brands. You're doing the same thing you did in 2003. You're finding what's the data, what's the opportunity, what do people want, and then you're selling them that. Yes. You're doing it yourself now.

You're right. I didn't put that together, but the core principle is exactly the same. People wanted premium denim then. You found the right partner, and now you're just like, oh, they want this now. Let's go create it.

Exactly. And then now there's a more nuanced version of like say with denim where it's like people want the specific type of denim, and we knew it, so then we created it, and it's been great. I didn't put that parallel there,

but yeah, all we're doing is really just listening to the consumer and trying to understand and give them what they want. And what's the biggest challenge for you right now that you face? Is it all the competition? Is it just there's so many brands out there? Is it the influencers are now starting their own thing and they're taking their audience with them?

Is it just scaling? What's the challenge for you? I think the real thing is that this hasn't always been the case. But I think that right now we're in a position where in times past, I always would identify, this is a gap that we need to fill. In times past, we weren't always good at influencer marketing.

So it was like, we have to figure this out. Before, we had no clue about how to make clothes, so we had to figure it out. And now I feel like, able to layer the stacks of different competencies, and I think that now the challenge is making sure they all work together and are able to grow and scale

at the same time. It's a different type of challenge, and I think that's why I get so, I'm still so excited about everything, because now that, as soon as you figure something out there's a new challenge and there's always opportunity for growth. We're blessed with a lot of opportunities. So really coordinating

everyone as like no longer scrappy startup entrepreneur. Now it's more like a little bit more of a larger company CEO kind of responsibilities of management and training and culture and integration.

But it's fun because my team is awesome. I think there's a lot of culture, there's a lot of camaraderie, and there's not a lot of cattiness and infighting and politics. It's like everyone is focused and everyone enjoys working with each other. So it's kind of like a high-functioning sports team

when we're all in it together and rolling. So it's challenging but fun. That's great. How many employees do you have? I actually just got a report yesterday. So I think 749. Amazing. And how have you evolved into, again,

being an entrepreneur by yourself to now running an organization with that many employees? Where did that take from you? That's the other benefit. The fact that I have been doing this for 14, 15 years, I have had the luxury of time to grow. It wasn't like overnight the whole world changes or one year later the company explodes

and I'm in a totally different space. It's been this steady, long journey. Before it was really roll up your sleeves, figure out how to do the process, figure out how to do the you know the process figure out how to do the work do a lot of it yourself and then build the process and get other people to do it and make it you know scalable and then I've had to do that my partner and I have had to do that in different areas over time where first it was website design and buying and then later on it became more the planning aspect of things

and digital marketing. Then later on, it ended up being brand marketing. And later on, it ended up being manufacturing clothes. So for me, building the different aspects and competencies of the organization took a lot of time. And then now, I do feel that the team is good. All the positions I need are there.

There's a few things that we're layering in. And now it's just like the orchestra of everyone working together, which is chaotic. Right, exactly. Well, who would you say is the most influential person in your life growing up? Someone who made you who you are today? Early on, my dad was definitely influential on me in a different way, in that Asian kind of household. And it's definitely... You grew up in malaysia is that right i was born in malaysia but grew up out over here okay and i think uh in the asian at least in

culture that i grew up it was a little bit more of like stoic mask it was really not share your emotions it was really that you know so it wasn't really through like communication and kind of like traditional you know teaching but my Showing affection and communicating your affection and things like that. Yeah, and really teaching a specific lesson, but what he really showed me, hands down, was hard work. It was just work ethic,

and that was one thing that I knew was a responsibility, and I'm happy to see that role model. It was like times were tough? Well, the only job is in Santa Barbara, so we've got to commute to Santa Barbara. And then, oh, during that time, it's tough, but you. Well, the only job is in Santa Barbara. So we got to commute to Santa Barbara. And then work. And then, oh, during that time it's tough. You still have to work on the weekends.

To do work on the weekends, just to keep level. And you got to do what you got to do. So I think that was like, that really, really resonated. I really internalized that. And I think that, to this day, that really influenced the person I've grown up to be. Actually, I don't even know if I've ever told them that. I hope he listens and hears that. What about your mom?

Biggest lesson she taught you? I think she really was able to teach me a lesson, but skill was really listening and really understanding people. I think it was like, she is the type of person where she's like, will talk a lot, but also is always able to develop

a lot of relationships with people in terms of just like having that empathy and understanding where they're coming from and how you can help people out and why people are acting

a certain way and how you build. So I think those two things together are like, the blended are kind of the foundation of why am I able to grow and succeed.

Sure, sure. What do you think it's going to have to take from you to still learn in order to take your business to where you want it to be? What do you mean by that? What do you still need to learn or what lesson do you need to take on or what do you need to let go of within yourself in order for you to take your business to the next level

you want it to be at? Well, I think the one thing that very recently I started to focus on is that that work ethic aspect was always there and it's there, but it's also like balancing that. It's like you can't be like at 10 all the time and you can't push everyone to be 10 all the time. I don't think it's capable for us to succeed in the next level by just everyone outworking everyone. In the earlier days, I felt like it's essential.

That was the core competency in the day one. We're two guys with nothing to do but work all day and all the energy in the world. But now to get to that next level, it can't be just like our teams are happy. I don't know if they're happy, but our teams are committed that when it's time to go, it's go time and everyone looks back like like we're going to do this and there's

like a really sense of like we're doing this together sure I'm trying to now at this point really minimize those times where everyone has to be like buckle down and duke it out and really suck through the challenges I think now it's really like what's the elegant simple way for us to accomplish the goal without burning out the team and challenging everyone and having to push everyone to succeed just on that sheer willpower? I think it's going to be how do we succeed and achieve even greater results but in an elegant, fluid way that's smoother and more enjoyable for all of us. Because if it's not enjoyable, what's the point?

I like that. In a world where it seems like every entrepreneur wants to start a company and then sell it within three to five years, how have you been consistently excited about your business for 15 years? When it seems like you're kind of like an old business now, if you're around for 15 years, you didn't sell yet, right? Definitely. now if you're around for 15 years. You didn't sell yet, right? Definitely. So how have you stayed? And what's your advice as well?

How have you stayed inspired every year? And what's your advice to younger entrepreneurs that are like, oh, I just want to build this and sell it in three years? I don't know. I think it's a number of different things. I think it's really complex. I think one thing for me is that the people on our team through and through, the people I work with directly

or the people that I continue to meet in the organization, there's a culture that resonates and I really enjoy it. I can't imagine not working with these people. I think that's something there.

Also from a business perspective, we've always been fans of the long term. And I think ultimately when you're focused on the long term, when you're focused on the long term, when you're executing in the present, I think that's when the big magical results can happen.

I think that was something that my partner and I, from day one, and it's interesting, we were 22, 23, we were like, let's build a business we want to own forever. When you want to own it forever, if you ever change your mind, it's going to be very valuable versus trying to build a business that you're trying to sell. Well, if the people you're trying to sell to aren't interested or if the world changes, I think honestly, you know, that was influenced by us

coming into the workforce and the entrepreneurial kind of like community in the first recession in 2000, 2001. We were in that world where everyone was trying to build this company to sell it to so-and-so or to do so-and-so. It was really a short-sighted kind of play. If you can't do that and you can't go there, the world changes, then you end up with nothing. The business collapses. Exactly. You get burnt out, you're bored,

you're whatever. Or the potential acquirers end up, which you have no control of, their business may evolve. So with us, we always have that long-term mentality. And I think that's, to this day, I think one of the rare ones who says that,

like, I think I want to do this forever. I think we're also just so lucky that the opportunities keep coming and coming. And I think, you know, there's a wealth of opportunities that we can pursue. And it's like really our responsibility to stay focused on what we have to do. But I could definitely see myself doing this forever as long as the opportunities for growth are still there.

I like it, man. So what advice would you give to young entrepreneurs who want to start their own thing? What advice would you say to them? Is there any principles you would say? Is it to build something to hold on to forever that you would want to? What else would you offer advice to? I think there's so many different ways. Ultimately understanding

what you want to do. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with building a business and trying to sell it. Certain type of businesses and opportunities may be ripe for that. I think that might be really smart in certain zones. I think that really aligning what your goals are

with kind of what the market opportunity is and making sure that those go together. Whether it could be starting the awesome donut coffee shop that's really awesome and you're into it, and you delight your customers. Is that a success to you? Or is it like you have to scale it to be 500 locations? Nothing wrong with either of

those but it's like understanding that and ensuring that the opportunities out there really make sense sure sure i like it man this is called the three truths we're getting to the final questions here it's called the three truths and this is uh if it's the end of the day for you many years from now you've done everything you want to do in your life you've built the business you want it to be you've achieved everything you've made your parents proud for achieving what everything you want to do in your life. You've built the business you want it to be. You've achieved everything. You've made your parents proud for achieving what they want you to do because I know that's important in the Asian community, right? Of course. You've done all those things.

But for whatever reason, it's all erased. Everything's gone. And all the interviews you've done, the content you put out there is gone. So people don't have your information, your words anymore. You've got a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true. The three lessons you've learned from your life

that you would pass on to other people. And this is all they would have to remember you and your information by. What would you say are those three lessons or three truths? It's a challenge. I wish I was more prepared here. Well, I think one thing for me that's important is we're always so metric focused, you know, myself, you know, no doubt, but ultimately

the human aspect of things is super important. So it's not just the business that we built in the numbers that we achieve, which is something I think about, you know, every day, but it's also who I did it with and how they were uplifted and benefited. I think that's super important to me and to the way we go about business is that it's all of us doing this together. Everyone who's committed to what we're doing, we're committed to their lives and their happiness.

And that's something I'm extremely proud of in our company. So it's like not just what we did, but it's also who did I do it with and how did they benefit? Yeah, that's great. So that's number one. Yes. Okay.

What's the next two? The other one, I think this is maybe a little bit newer lesson for me, is that you don't have to sacrifice your personal life and your health for your professional career. And I think that's something that I see a lot of people doing. career. And I think that's something that I see a lot of people doing. I've been the guiltiest of it at so many different times, whether it's not being able to be in a good relationship because it's so secondary to the professional or sometimes neglecting health because the professional career takes precedence. I think it all goes together. I think there's a harmony when all three of those aspects come together. And that's when a healthier, happier life really comes together. I think there's a harmony when all three of those aspects come together and that's when a healthier, happier life

really comes together. When you're healthy, you have great relationships and you have a thriving professional career. There's no priorities. It's all one. And I think that was, learned that one the hard way. Right, yeah. 12 years of slugging it out, yeah.

Definitely. Okay, that's number two. And the third truth or lesson? The third truth or lesson the third truth or lesson i think this is somewhat related to the second point and if this is something that's like i'm trying to put a lot more attention to is that the hard work and the grind and that effort there is obviously huge value to that but at some point that's not the goal and actually enjoying it this is super cliche

but enjoying the work enjoying everything is more important than achieving it it's no point of we build a business that's this big or whatever how many billions of dollars if I didn't enjoy the process of building it then it was rather pointless

super cliche but also challenging to really internalize. That's a personal challenge. I think that's for me, this year was a very challenging year in terms of like professional challenges. It was a very successful year in terms of the metrics that,

the goals that we've achieved. But other aspects, I think I didn't do as good of a job and that I really was a little bit too intense and focused, which detracted from my ability to enjoy it. And looking back, it should have been a more fun year. Looking back, and I really feel like I didn't really, you know, wasn't quite fully present to really enjoy.

What a great year. I look back and remember the hard work and the struggle, which is important, but it should be mixed in with that enjoyment and fun. So that's the goal this year is to maintain this intensity, but also enjoy it much, much more. And I think that's something which goes back to the,

it's very similar to that balancing of everything. What are you committed to creating then every month to ensure you do that? How are you going to keep yourself accountable on that? It's the balance. I think it's going to, you know, in terms of like prioritizing, ensuring health. And it's the balance. I think it's going to, you know, in terms of like prioritizing, ensuring health.

And it's also, so like working out and eating well, you know, the super fundamental basics, investing more into personal life. I think it's easy for me to, to just work and not, not,

you know, as a single guy, just not put as much energy to, to nurture that aspect of life and really make a little bit more better planning. I can plan work and I have plans that go out many years and things, but I'm bad about planning like, how am I going to enjoy this weekend? Or can I get my friends together to go on a vacation in three months?

Those are the things that are always the best moments. If you look back, those are my favorite things that I, those are my favorite times when you're traveling with your friends, but at the same time, I don't even put that much energy to make those moments happen. So I think that's another thing that I'll try to do a lot better.

That's great. That's great, man. Where can we connect with you online, personally? Where do you like to hang out? I'm probably more, you know, Instagram. So at Mmente, you can find me there. Drop by, say hello. I'm always excited to hear from everybody.

And of course if you're into women's clothing and men's clothing you know revolve.com is you know the main business

and actually we have a designer business higher end designers fwrdforward.com as well where our men's selection there is

Louis you gotta check it out that's our men's selection fwrd.com is the men's stuff it's men's and women's but the men's selection is real good over there. It's not on Revolve. There's some stuff, but Forward is really got the good stuff.

I'm going there and picking up some stuff tonight. Awesome. Well, before I ask the final question, Michael, I want to acknowledge you for everything you've built over the last 15 years and your ability to be aware and recognize the things that you've struggled with. I think there's a lot of people when they build something that big, they lose themselves and they forget to take care of their health and their personal relationships.

So for your clarity and awareness around the importance of humans in your team, importance of humans in your life and your health, is a great reminder for all of us. So I want to acknowledge you for that and all you've done to inspire people. Thank you so much. Yeah, man. Thank you for everything.

You know, we've all, you know, I have a big group of friends who, you know, we all like to help each other and you've done so, you know, your work, you know, the books and the podcasts, we've all learned so much from. And I think a lot of that, you know, a lot of the things that, you know,

I was mentioning I feel is because you think about it in a similar way. There's very few sources where I can be inspired or I can learn about health, relationships, and business. There's a lot of business, but it's treated separately. But I think I've learned so many times from you and from Mike, my own experience is that the same things that make us weak in our personal life also are the same things that make us weak in our personal life also are the same things that make us weak

in our professional life. And I think integrating those lessons learned are things that I've really started to see as I get older versus it's usually compartmentalized. And I think that's, I know I see a lot of that from you and I see that from the books, I see a lot of the challenges with masks. It's in your personal life,

it's in your professional life and different ones. And so it's learned so much from you, so honored and happy to be here. Thank you so much. Of course. We've got one final question. We'll let you go. And that's what's your definition of greatness?

I think greatness comes from happiness and happiness comes from making other people happy and ultimately being your authentic self and appreciating and being happy with the person you are and the life that you have in front of you. There you go, Michael Mente. Appreciate you, man. Thank you, man. Thanks, man.

It's been awesome. Thank you so much. This was great. Ah, the movement of greatness is strong and I continue to be inspired by all the people we bring on here. If you guys are inspired by this episode, let me know. Take a screenshot right now and tag me on your Instagram story at Lewis Howes.

The link for this to let your friends know is lewishowes.com slash 583. Again, you can share it out on Twitter, on Facebook, Instagram. Just tag me and let me know so I can respond back to you and we can have a conversation over on social media. The full show notes and all the things we covered and talked about, the quotes from Michael, the video is back at lewishouse.com slash 583. Share it with your friends. We've got to get this message out there. We've got to let other people know that they can have that inspiration, the tools, the strategy to help them grow their business, help them grow and launch their ideas and live a bigger, better life. Again, it means the world to me that you guys continue to show up each and every week to support the School of

Greatness. And my only request is that you implement and take action on at least one idea each time to improve your own life, your own business, your health, whatever the subject we're talking about, that you implement it in your life. And then you share it with a friend and let them know how it impacted you and how it supported your life. That's how we continue to grow. This message is by you guys taking action, seeing big results, and then letting your friends know, again, this is a free podcast. So again, thank you for all of your support.

And the link is lewishouse.com slash 583 for all the full show notes, the resources, the talking points, the video interview, all that good stuff. And Doug Ellis said, if your business comes from relationships, then relationships should be your business. I want you to evaluate the relationships in your life.

How are you serving people? How are you giving to them? Or are you a one-sided transaction? Are you only looking for things to get out of relationships as opposed to give? Relationships are gonna be the key to making this year great for you in your personal life and in your business.

It's all about relationships. Everything we do is relationships. So I hope you guys are optimizing the ones you're in and adding new people in your life who can support your vision that you can support as well. I love you so very much. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Bye.