The School of Greatness - 619 Experience Your Ultimate Potential with Rich Roll

Episode Date: March 26, 2018

“My desire was to figure out a way to impact the most number of people in the most meaningful way possible.” Success can have a very tricky definition. You can have the ideal job, make a decent salary, have that sports car you always wanted, and still not really be successful. To truly be happy, the ultimate meter for success, you need to be doing things that fill you up. Finding your passion in the world can be the difference between struggling to get out of bed in the morning and being excited to get the day started. Sometimes you need to stop and ask if you’re really chasing the life you want or chasing something someone else wants of you. This is a lesson that was hard learned by my latest guest, Rich Roll. Rich Roll has been on my show twice before, and it was a pleasure having him back. He battled with an alcohol addiction that ruined his life from the age of 17 to the age of 31, when he finally went to a treatment center. Most people only spend 28 days there. He ended up spending 100. When he got out, he changed his life. He pursued a career most people would consider ideal and made a great living. The problem was, it wasn’t the life he wanted and it took a toll on him physically. After having a brush with death in his late 30s, he began living his life for him. Since then, he’s become a successful athlete, motivational speaker, podcast host, and all around incredible human being. You can hear all about his incredible journey and his plans for the future, on Episode 619. Some Questions I Ask: What are some challenges you’ve experienced since this book originally came out? (8:25) What’s the biggest lesson your wife taught you? (13:58) Do you think your 45 year old self would be proud of your 51 year old self? (16:56) Do you think you’ll be doing your podcast for another 5 years? (18:56) Do you think you’ll do a race again at 60? (27:50) If someone is looking to improve their life, what one aspect is the most important to start with? (35:48) Food does something to our physical makeup? (38:57) Why did you stay in the treatment center for so long? (39:56) How has your relationship evolved over the last 20 years? (48:00) What’s the big lesson that you try to teach your kids? What’s the biggest lessons you learned from your parents? (53:57) In This Episode You Will Learn: The biggest personal challenge for Rich the last 5 or 6 years (12:32) How Rich sees his story different now than he did when he first wrote the book (15:13) The thing Rich is most proud of over the last 7 years (18:13) The viking endurance race Rich did last year (21:10) Rich’s long battle with alcoholism (42:13) The journey of Rich’s marriage (46:34) How being a recovering addict taught Rich about being compassionate to others (49:36) The biggest challenge of being a parent (52:52) The biggest challenge Rich is facing right now (54:38) Plus much, much more

This is episode number 619 with best-selling author Rich Roll. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Jeff Bezos said, what's dangerous is not to evolve. I'm super excited about this episode

with my good friend, Rich Roll. He's been on a couple times before, but it's been a long time. Episode number 10 was the first time he was on, and then back in the 100s. So if you haven't heard of him, he is a world-renowned vegan ultra-endurance athlete. He's got an incredible story. He's a best-selling author, wellness advocate, motivational speaker, podcast host, huge podcast, husband, father of four, and an inspiration to people worldwide as a transformative example of courageous and healthy living. He's been featured everywhere, CNN, Los Angeles Times, Men's Health Living, Men's Fitness Magazine. And in 2009, he was named 25 fittest men in the world. He just republished and updated a version of his bestselling memoir, Finding Ultra. And he's got a new vegan cookbook called

The Plant Power Way Italia, which is out right now. And we went into some inspiring topics, really the journey that Rich has gone over the last 15, 20 years from being a recovering addict, extreme alcoholic, to transforming his life, becoming completely overweight, almost having a heart attack when he was in his late 30s, to transforming his health and his diet and nutrition, workout plan, everything, to where he's at now, to almost going bankrupt a couple of times after these transitions and so much in between. And we talk about what it looks like to trust the process when things are extremely tough in your life. Also why it's so important to delegate so you don't burn out yourself. Why committing to a big challenge brings out the

best in all of us. And when we don't have some type of challenge or bigger goal in our life, the challenges that will come when we don't have that challenge. Also, what to focus on if you are ready to make a shift in your health. And what recovering from addiction teaches you about compassion for others. We talked about all these things and so many more powerful things, and I hope you enjoy this one. And if you're listening, make sure to take a screenshot of this right now

and post it up on Instagram, on your Instagram story, at Lewis Howes and at Rich Roll, to let us know that you're listening to it and let your friends know to check it out as well. It's episode number 619. And before we dive in, I want to give a shout out to the fan of the week. We like to celebrate people who listen to the podcast. We have millions of downloads every single month from people all over the world, and I want to celebrate you guys. So the more people that share and comment and leave reviews, we acknowledge you for being a fan of the week. And if you haven't left a review, make sure to leave one right now.

And this one's from Mara Zayas, who said, after we got hit by two major hurricanes in Puerto Rico, I needed to hear a positive and inspiring message to help me get up and be motivated again with my dreams of having my own ceramic shop. In that search, I found this podcast and I'm grateful for it. Thank you, Louis. So Myra, thank you so much for that. You are the fan of the week and super inspired to hear that you were able to get through those challenging times in Puerto Rico. And glad to hear you guys are safe and you're recovering and you're on to living your dreams

again. So congratulations and thanks so much for listening and supporting the School of Greatness podcast. All right, guys, I'm super pumped about this one. Again, it's all about experiencing your ultimate potential. It doesn't matter what age you are. You're going to hear an incredible story right now with the one, the only, Rich Roll. Rich Roll is in the house, everybody.

Super pumped you're here, man. Good to see you. Good to see you. Nice haircut. Thank you for coming to my home. Yes, we've switched sides. I know. We've switched sides.

For people that are just listening, I'm sitting in Lewis's chair, and for people on YouTube, it's going to be a little jarring, I think, that I took over the seat. Exactly. You know, to join you. But it's good to see you. I wanted to

say at the outset before we even get into it that I really appreciate you having me on. I think this is my third time on the podcast. And as we talked about on my show, we go way back. We started around the same time. And I know how it is when past guests kind of hit you up and say, hey, can I come back on again? And it can be awkward. So it's no small thing that you're having me back on. And I appreciate it. I appreciate you. Yeah, you were on in 2013. You were episode 10. Yeah. 2013, then 2015, episode 169, and now 600 something. 600. Wow. I'm at 356. So you've almost doubled my account. Wow. Yeah.

That's interesting. It's been a fun evolution for both of us. You're a little more than five years. You're like five and a half years, I think, right? I think so, about five and a half, yeah. Five and three months, I think it is, because it was five at the end of January. So it's been a crazy journey, right? Yeah.

I look over here at the wall of some of the people I've had on. We've got to get a photo of you up there now. We don't have one up there. And it's just like so many lessons learned. And it sounds like to me there are a lot of lessons you've learned since you wrote the first edition of Finding Ultra until now it's coming out with 100 plus pages and a lot of lessons where you're talking about before. After the book came out, the first time you almost lost your house, you were saying, which I don't even know that.

And there was other challenges. What were the other challenges you've learned in the last five years since originally this book coming out? So many. Setting aside everything I've learned as a result of doing the podcast, as you know, like having these amazing people

sit across from you and you get to hold them hostage and ask them everything you want to ask them. I mean, I can't even begin to unpack like how much that's impacted me in a positive way. I mean, it's just been an insane journey. I don't think either of us could have ever predicted that, A, we'd still be doing this. You know, I didn't know that I would still be doing this or that, you know, what we've sort of built with our respective, you know, audiences would have grown to the extent that it has. So super grateful for that journey. And yeah, I started the podcast shortly after this book came out, which was in

May of 2012. I started the podcast in November of that year. And it was really my intention. I didn't even know if I would do a second episode. But once I kind of got rolling, it was an opportunity to just continue the conversation that I think this book began. And one of the kind of core themes of this book, a lot of people sort of mistook it as a book about running or how to be a better triathlete. It's really not about that. It's about how to basically better self-actualize, how to become the best, most authentic version of yourself, however that looks for you. And my story is intended really as a metaphor for, I think, the unlimited potential that we all have. But one of the themes is that when your heart is true, that the universe will conspire to

support you. And when this book came out, I put everything into pushing it out into the world and let go of practicing law. My background is in corporate law. And I thought, okay, I'm going all in on trying to sort of create some kind of profession out of promoting these ideas that are important to me, whether it's speaking or writing another book or whatever that may look like. I wasn't really sure at the time, but I thought, okay, my heart is pure. This is the theme of the book. I'm putting myself out there. I'm stepping out and I'm waiting for that universal signal of support. And I got to tell you, like, it didn't really come. I was like, phone's not ringing. What am I going to do? Money was running out and, you know, I could go do a speaking gig for free or maybe do a little thing

here or there. Try to slap some books or whatever, yeah, in the back of the room. Yeah, you know, I could go do a speaking gig for free or maybe do a little thing here or there. Try to slap some books or whatever, yeah, in the back of the room. Yeah, you know, and, you know, I have four kids. I've got a mortgage. So we went through a very difficult extended period of time that lasted a number of years. I mean, it was like five or six years of touch and go. Julie calls it, my wife calls it, our divine moment, where we were really brought to our knees and forced to really confront our attachment to material things like our house

and our cars. We had two cars repossessed. Well, after this book came out, I mean, it's like, it was the weirdest juxtaposition because I was getting a bunch of attention and I was sort of in the media. And yet at the same time, there was a lot of kind of suffering that we had to experience around how to kind of navigate what we were trying to accomplish and do in the material world. And ultimately, we really had to burn in that fire in order to kind of come out. And I think that required a tremendous amount of faith and persistence and really just being in the moment like day to day to try to figure out what the next step would be. But I think emerging from that, I mean, now everything's great. Like my life is an embarrassment of riches and I have so much opportunity and it's insane. Like I, you know, it's hard looking back to even imagine what it

was like back then. But I think it allows me to communicate with the people that are tuning into my channel and my frequency with a level of humility and honesty and just realness, really, because I know what it's like to kind of be in that place. And that was one of the reasons why I wanted to rewrite the book, because I wanted to tell that story of what happened after Finding Ultra came out

from 2012 to present because I think those events are equally dramatic, if not more dramatic and certainly more relatable to the average person than some of the ultra endurance feats that are chronicled in the original version. Yeah. What would you say is the biggest personal challenge for you over the last five or six years? I think, and this is a theme that you know well, it really challenged my idea of what it means to be a man. As a masculine human being, as a head of household, as somebody who's supposed to be a provider, somebody who's supposed to have all the answers, somebody who's supposed to make their kids feel safe. And all of that was called

into question because I was in a position where, for a period of time, providing for my family was a tremendous challenge. And I would not have made it through without the strength and support of my wife. I mean, there were many times where I was like, forget it. I'm going back to being a lawyer. I'm going to, I'll get a job at a corporate law firm, whatever. Like we got to like, you know, we got to like take care of business here. And she's like, no, you cannot do that. You've come so far. You cannot retreat. That's a move backwards. The only way out of this is through. And I have your back. And if we have to say goodbye to our home, we're together. We're in love. We're with our kids. It's all going to be fine. And it's easy to kind of say those things, but to actually live those things and weather that storm is a different matter altogether. And so it was because of her in large

part that, you know, I even get to sit here and talk to you today. It's a pretty powerful woman. Yeah. It's inspiring. Yeah. She's my biggest teacher for sure really what's the big lesson she's taught you she just has i mean she is somebody who has all who has committed herself from the get-go to always like pushing the boundaries of her own personal evolution like personal growth so whether it's spiritual mental, like incredibly well-read person and just somebody with an extreme amount of personal fortitude, like she's just an incredibly strong person and very convicted in her ideas. And so to have her as my partner who not only – I mean she's the reason I even wrote this book to begin with because I you know, I was a junk food addict, recovering alcoholic, like very unhappy in my professional career, but she was always able to kind of see through that facade, that like heaviness that I was carrying around to this better,

more actualized person within. And she held the space for me to find that within myself. And that's a whole other story that's part of the book as well. But I think just that ability to kind of see the best in somebody and not in a lip service kind of way, but in a very real fundamental way is rare. Yeah, that's cool. Do you see your story different now

than when you first wrote the book? Yeah, in so many ways. It's a weird thing. and I'm sure you can relate to this as well, Lewis. When you get asked to get on a stage and tell your story or go on podcasts and, you know, tell me what happened. And, you know, you get into this space where you tell the story so many times that suddenly you think, and I don't know if you've had this experience, but I certainly have, you think like, is this story even true? Like I've told it so many times that it's easy to kind of like distance yourself from it and just spit it out because you've done it so many times.

And so I've had that experience where I've really had to think, okay, let me, what is the heart of the matter? Like what is really true about this? And what is just something I've said so many times that I think it's true? So I'm constantly in the process of like deconstructing that and trying to examine it. And I think the process of getting up on stage and sharing my story with groups of people, large and small, has helped tell me what it is about my story that connects with people. And I think when I wrote the original version of the book, I thought the story was one thing, and in the process of telling it, I've realized so much more about myself. And so it's changed and morphed, not with respect to the facts of that experience, but I think what the emotional heart of it is.

Yeah. How old were you when you wrote the book, 45, 46? I think I was 40. When I was writing it, I was 44, 45. When it came out in 46? So in 2012, that was seven years ago. I'm 51 now. 45, somewhere around there, 45. Do you think your 45-year-old self would be proud of your 51-year-old self? Oh, for sure. You know, I mean, I've far exceeded my expectations for not just the books that I've written, but the level of impact that I've been able to have. I mean, my desire really was only to figure out a way to impact the most number of people in the

most meaningful way possible. And I didn't know, like I said, exactly what that would look like or how I would manifest that. But to sit here today, you know, as a fellow podcaster and author, like I just, you know, I can't even believe that I get to do what I get to do every day. Like, you know, I work really hard,

as I know you do. It's like I'm working all the time, but it doesn't feel like work. I get it. We're'm working all the time, but it doesn't feel like work. We're working right now, right? It doesn't feel like work. I would come over and hang out with you and do this anyway if I had another job. So very blessed to be able to do what I love and also provide for my family and impact people in a positive way. I mean, I can't think of anything that I would rather do with my life, but it's certainly not anything I would have dreamed that I would be doing. Like if you asked me when I was 30,

I mean, I couldn't even imagine. Like I thought I was going to be like a baller lawyer or a movie producer or something. So it's weird. From all the stuff you've been able to do in the last seven years, what's the thing you're most proud of? The thing I'm most proud of is that I know in my heart of hearts that I have shaped and impacted the way people lead their lives in a meaningful way whether that's one person a hundred people a thousand people however many people it is just the feedback that I get I know and I know you get emails like this as well to receive really intimate heartfelt letters from people saying, you know, I tuned into your podcast or I read your book and this is where I was and these are

the obstacles I faced and here's where I am today and thank you. I mean, that's a gift from the universe. There's nothing more meaningful or valuable to me and it's a blessing. Yeah. You've been doing the podcast for over five and a half years. Do you think you'll be doing it for another five years? I don't know. The promise I made to myself was I would do it until I started to get stale or sick of it. And I actually ran up against that around December or January this year where I was starting to feel a little bit burned out for the very first time. And I had to hit pause and really reflect on whether I wanted to keep doing it. And if so, how to configure, reconfigure the way that I was doing it so that I wouldn't have that approach.

Because I want to approach every interview, every episode that I do with enthusiasm and excitement. So you've always been really good about delegating of this amazing team of people helping you. And we've had this conversation a lot of times where my Achilles heel is that I'm a bit of a control freak. And I try to like, you know, I get too in the weeds on the details. And so I've done a better job of delegating and building my own team and also focusing on the things that are most important that only I can do and letting other people handle the rest. And then batching the work. Like I wasn't very systematic in my approach to it. So I ended up sort of working on it a little bit every single day. And I felt like I was just drowning, you know.

So I've now created a schedule that allows me some flexibility with my time. And that's improved my perspective on the interview. So to answer your question, yeah, I'll do it as long as I feel like I'm adding value and I'm into it. The minute I start to feel like, ugh, another one, then it's probably time to either take a break or retire. But at some point, we're not going to be doing this when we're 70, right? At some point, it's going to happen. Larry King's doing it. Yeah, I guess, right?

He's done 60,000 interviews. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he takes breaks. Have you ever taken a break? Me, no. Not in five years. Yeah, so I've never missed a week.. Have you ever taken a break? Me? No. Not in five years. Yeah. So I've never missed a week.

I mean, I took a break. I went to Hawaii last week with no phone and no computer. Yeah, that's good. But I'd worked enough to be caught up. Yeah,

then you've got to work a lot before you go. Exactly, yeah, to batch it ahead. And now I've got to get caught back up again so it's not like needing something for tomorrow.

Oh, we're getting lean. I've got to... Which always feels like that though because we're doing two episodes a week anyways. So you can get banked, but then they're gone the next month. Of course. You did this race last year, right? This crazy endurance race.

It was like 46 miles. Is that what it was? Through like the Galapagos Islands or something crazy like that. I wish it was the Galapagos. The water would have been a little bit warmer. It was Sweden or Switzerland. I hadn't done an endurance challenge since Epic 5 in 2010, which is a big part of this book.

And because in those intervening years, I was going through this dismantling period and trying to figure out how to make my way. And I was very intent on creating a sustainable, professional approach to what I was doing. And so I achieved that. Because before you were eating bad, having fast food, and working nonstop. Even prior to that.

Like when I was, yeah, I mean the story leading up to it, just to kind of catch people up who have no idea who I am, I was a corporate lawyer at age 39, 50 pounds overweight, junk food addict, basically classic couch potato, sliding into middle age on a crash course with lifestyle disease, depressed about my life. And also like having an existential crisis about like my career, my profession, and what I was here to do. And that existential crisis sort of collided with a health scare shortly before I turned 40 where I had like a heart episode walking up a simple flight of stairs. That really brought into focus this desire to change how I was living. And in the sort of following months and years, I overhauled my diet, adopted a plant-based diet,

started getting fit again, went on and conquered all these crazy ultra-endurance challenges, wrote this book, and like all this crazy stuff happened. Is that story even true anymore? Yeah, see, like that's the thing. Like I just told you the thumbnail that I've said a million times. And, you know, we can dissect it if you want, but it's probably outside the bounds of this. But then it was about like, okay, I'm doing the podcast. I'm trying to create, you know, something. You're trying to build an audience that you can. And also like, you know, on that theme of like, you know, my approach has always been like,

how can I have the most impact? And if I'm out on my bike for eight hours or, you know, training all the time, then there's no podcast. There's no, you know, I'm not serving my main, you know, sort of mission statement. But I turned 50 last year and I thought this is a good moment to race again because I wanted to prove that a 50-year-old dude who also happened to be vegan or plant-based could still go out and kill it. And I thought that that would serve the mission statement because there was a service aspect of that. So I committed to this race in Sweden.

Americans would call it Otillo. The Swedish pronounce it Otille, which means island to island. It's a 75-kilometer race that traipses across 52 islands spread wide across the Stockholm archipelago in the Baltic Sea. Leading up to this race, I trained for it for about, I don't know, nine or ten months. I decided I was going to share every single workout on Strava and on Instagram stories so people could join along. And they could see, like, I have bad days. Some days I didn't make training because something else happened.

And just be totally transparent about the whole thing, which was super fun. And then showed up in Stockholm. And this race is the weirdest thing. It's called swim run. This is the World Championships of something called swim run, which is an emerging sport, mostly in northern Europe. It's starting to find its way to the U.S., but nobody knows about it here. And essentially what you do is you swim and you run. And you do the whole thing in a wetsuit with your running shoes on. That's going to be challenging. Swimming across these waterways and crawling up on granite

rocks on all fours and scurrying across these little islands and then jumping back in the water and swimming again. You do this 52 transitions. It was like a 10-hour race, and you do it in teams of two. So I did it with my coach, Chris Houth, my longtime coach. You have to stay within 10 meters of your teammate the entire time. You can't get too separated. And it was the hardest one-day race of my life. I mean, just the distance alone was challenging. And the terrain was way more difficult than I imagined because on these islands, you're not really running. It's more like an obstacle course thing.

You're falling down on rocks. And the conditions that day were insane. There was sideways rain, just crazy rain. The swells, it was like six feet swells in the water. It was bananas and freezing cold, frigid water in the Baltic. There was one. That's scary. You could drown.

Well, in this race, they would have never allowed this race to take place in the United States like no insurance company would underwrite this thing It's only like the Vikings you know who are like what's the big deal? You know the craziest part of that race was about 2-thirds of the way through There's a swim section. It's one of the longest swim sections. It's called the Pig Swim. And it's about a kilometer across this waterway. And it's the most exposed area of water on the whole race where there's no more islands. There's this Baltic Sea to your right. And the swells were so crazy.

The boats that were out in the water who are sort of charged with making sure everyone's safe. Like these boats, they're going to capsize. Like it was crazy. And I just remember halfway through, I kind of pulled up and looked around. Like it's so disorienting because you're getting washed around like a washing machine and suddenly you're swimming the wrong way. And you know, it's like, you don't know where you are. I just started laughing. I was like, what am I even doing out here? In the middle of the sea. I'm a 50 year old dude. Like I'm in the middle of the Baltic. I'm getting water.

What am I trying to prove? I can't even believe what is going on in my life that I'm here. It was just this moment of realization that all these things that I had done and all the challenges that I had overcome had put me in this position to be in the midst of this totally insane adventure race that was just crazy. It was great. I didn't have the greatest day, to be honest with you. Yeah, you struggled. Yeah, I definitely struggled. Was your coach

and partner, was he like, come on, let's go? No, he was cool. I was like, from the get-go, I didn't sleep well. It's a whole thing. But like, you know, he was mellow. He's like, okay, well, it just is what it is. You know, he could have been two hours faster without me. Well, he's a world-class machine, yeah. But we were still the fastest American team, and we finished, I don't even remember where we finished, like 30th place or something like that. But it wasn't about that. It was just about having this experience, and it was incredible.

It was incredible to do it as a 50-year-old man and to show I can still mix it up with these world-class athletes and do something that scared me because I hate cold water. Everything I'd done prior was in Hawaii and warm water. And it was epic. And the best part of it was just that I got to share that whole experience with the people, you know, that follow me on the various platforms and just demonstrate like, look, I showed you exactly what I did every single day leading up to this. There's no magic. There's no mystery. You know, you saw the whole thing.

And my hope with that is that it inspires other people to rethink their own limits and their own boundaries about what they're capable of. Yeah, it's powerful. You think you'll do it in 10 years at 60? I don't know. We'll see. That would be sweet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, every time I do one of these things, I'm like, okay, I'm good for a while. You know, I'm not like racing all the time. But I am looking for, I'm on the cusp of committing to something. You need a challenge. Every couple of years, you need a challenge probably. I think you always need a challenge. I think when I'm committed to something like that, it gives my life structure and focus. And it allows me to prioritize where I'm spending my energy and my attention.

allows me to prioritize where I'm spending my energy and my attention. And when I don't have a goal like that, it's easier to just kind of go with the flow and I'm not as productive. So even though there's a huge time commitment with something like that, I tend to be more productive in everything else that I'm doing when I have a goal.

Isn't it funny when we put bigger goals on our plate, everything else becomes productive? Because we have structure, we have time commitments, and we can get things done. And it seems like even if we have more on our plate, as long as we have big goals that we're focused on, we just work around that. And when we have less on our plates or no goals, we kind of feel like we're lazier, we're not as structured and organized. Yeah, there's no question about it. I mean, when you have a goal and it's an important goal to you, then you're more likely to create boundaries over what you agree and don't agree to do. Right. And so although, like Like you're like, okay, this is what I'm doing. And I'm just a happier, more productive person when I have that in my life. You know what I think you should do?

What? I think you should create your own race. Yeah, I thought about that. You should create like, but it's different than the obstacle course races and just a marathon, but it's like your own spiritual journey that people go on that is still extremely physically demanding. Maybe there's a swim, there's a bike, there's a run, there's some partner stuff or whatever it is, but something that you get to be creative with and create an experience but also get to train for and practice yourself and then bring to life for your audience. Yeah, that's a good idea. It could be like an annual thing once a year. The only circumstances under which I would do that, Lewis, is if you agree to participate.

I will participate. Well, it depends how long it is. Here's the thing. If it's under 10 miles. It's not going to be under 10 miles. Think about how much your audience would enjoy you preparing for something like that. Yeah, I just got to lose more weight though. I'm just a big guy. How many miles would it be? I don't know. sometime in my life think about how much your audience would enjoy you preparing for something like that gosh yeah

I just gotta lose more weight though if I'm like just a big guy how many miles would it be I don't know the thing is like

there's a lot of people that are doing that but they're not you no I know it's not your experience you have your fans that would come every year

if you did it once a year yeah it doesn't have to be like this monthly thing and travel around the world doing it but do it once a year where it's like an event

and an experience kind of like what's his name? Jesse did. Yeah, Jesse Itzler. Yeah, he started this new thing where he runs up the mountains and all that kind of stuff. Did you do that or no? No, but something like that.

He's coming over to talk to me about it, like I think next week or something like that. But I'm keyed into it. I had a friend who did it, and he was like, it was painful and challenging, but also a really cool experience. Right, I think it was at Killington the first one

that he did and you just run you run up and down the mountain until you've achieved the elevation of Everest Everest

right right right whatever yeah it's cool it's cool I think it's a good idea that'd be fun to do yeah I will support it

and check it out first see how the first year goes. All right, well, if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment below and let me know what you think that would look like or hit me up. I think it would be amazing because I know you're doing retreats now. Yeah. Which is different. Those are more like transformation. Right, but imagine creating a transformational race.

Right. Experience, a journey. I'd be open to doing it. Be very careful about your words right now. I'd be open to doing it. Be very careful about your words. I'd be open to doing it. There's nothing else that I've wanted to do. Like the LA Marathon, my buddy Matt, he's like, let's do it every year. And I'm like, I just

could care less. But if it was something that was different and unique and like a journey, it's just the long endurance stuff is like hard for me. Like three miles is hard. That's what attracted me to ultra endurance to begin with because as difficult as those challenges are physically, they're really spiritual odysseys.

And at that point in my life, I was looking to connect with myself. I was looking to learn more about who I was and what made me tick. And when you train for these super crazy long races, you're just stripped down to your core. Like until there's no, like all the, it's almost like an ayahuasca trip.

Like all the artifice, like all that shell that you walk around with, your masks, you know. You come naked. Described, yeah. And you're confronted with yourself in a really profound way. And I learned so much about myself as a result of doing those.

But on the other side of that, it's like, okay, I learned those lessons. Do I still need to go and do it? Yes, no, I don't know, you know what I mean? Well, I think yes and no. Yes, you can keep doing it because there's always another evolution of where you can grow into. And I think when you stop experiencing pain,

a certain type of pain, I think you become very complacent in your life and you become lazier. And that's why what you do do is, I think, inspiring to me because I try to do something every single day that's painful. Like lately I've been getting up at 5.30 a.m. I don't want to do it. It's painful. I've been lifting in the morning. It's painful. I don't like it.

I'd rather sleep in, you know, 10 hours a day. I'd rather like it. I'd rather sleep in, you know, 10 hours a day. I'd rather do it. But I feel so much more productive when I inflict some type of pain in my life every single day. Of course. Something I don't want to do. Uncomfortable. And that's why, you know, I think you inspire so many people with doing these endurance, long endurance races at the age you're at and running circles around people my age. The thing, though, that's so funny is that, like, I'll share, like, on Instagram stories,

like, oh, here's the workout I did today. And people will be like, that's so inspiring. You got me out of bed. And I'm like, actually, I just prefer to do it. Like, I choose to do it. Like, I enjoy it. You know what I mean? And, yeah, it's painful.

But that's how you connect with yourself. And that's how I feel alive alive by pushing myself in that way. I think you'd be more impactful in the world when you have something, a challenge, every couple of years that you're tackling. It doesn't have to be a 50-mile Balkan Sea race or whatever, you know, that crazy. But something that you're just doing,

I think you're going to be more impactful in the world than if you're just, hey guys, here's what I did 10 years ago. Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course, yeah, I totally agree with you. And in many ways, like this book, it's like, most of the stuff in here is stuff I did a long time ago. Yeah.

I think you should do it. All right. I'd be interested. All right. I'm going to put some time into that. I'll watch the first year and then maybe do it the second year. Like I said, be very careful. I know.

It would be extreme wannabe. Man, we talk a lot about exercise, meditation, and diet, both of us, the guests we have on. If someone is looking to improve their life and transform their life and they wanted to get started with one aspect, diet, nutrition, physical exercise, and meditation. Which one do you think should be, obviously all of them are equally important, but if they could only start with one for whatever reason, which one do you think is the most important to start with? Meditation, nutrition, physical activity. It's hard because they're so intertwined with each other and it's hard to parse one from

the other. So I'm reluctant or reticent to say one versus the other, but if you're forcing me to do that, I would say focus on your diet first. You know, I think changing your plates and cleaning up the vibration of what you're putting into your body is a portal to the soul. are intentional about that and really focus on trying to eat real foods as close to their natural state. In my case, I eat 100% plant-based diet. If you're not ready to take that entire leap, just try to eat mostly fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, and beans, things like that. I think that that will be a catalyst for future growth in those other areas. And that was my experience. I wasn't ready to meditate or to return to becoming an athlete or any of those

things. I started with changing my relationship with food. And I think when you change that frequency of what you're putting into your body, it impacts you on every level, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, et cetera. And it is a catalyst for progressive growth from there. So I would start with that. And the more you kind of refine that, then suddenly you get interested because you suddenly have a sense of vitality. You're like, oh, I feel like going out and moving my body. I haven't felt like that way. So the fitness will naturally follow. And then you're like, wow, my body feels good

and I'm taking care of it in this way. Like how do I tend to my spirit and my emotions and my mind? Well, I guess I'll start exploring the world of meditation. Yeah, I was watching this thing on Netflix called Chef's Table, have you ever heard of this? Yeah, yeah. Do you ever watch it or no? I have, yeah.

My wife is obsessed with it. I watched it for the first time last night and just happened to turn on a recent episode. It was of a woman who's a monk. Oh, in South Korea. Is that where it is? Yeah, so she is a genius. It was unbelievable. It was amazing.

I forget her name, but she is basically a nun in this Buddhist monastery in, I believe it's in South Korea. And she's like a food magician. She's unbelievable. Totally plant-based, but she grows all her herbs and her own foods. And it is the most artistic, beautiful food that you've ever seen. And her approach to it is so mindful and with so much grace that it is impossible to not be inspired. And the food that she prepares in this monastery, I guess,

and you would know because you just watched the episode. It's called a temple food. Right. Which is like this spiritual food for your soul and your mind. I believe it's 100% plant-based, I'm assuming. It is, yeah. Yeah, but she kept calling it temple food. spiritual food for your soul and your mind. I believe it's 100% plant-based, I'm assuming. It is, yeah. Yeah, but she kept calling it temple food and how it's going to infuse your body

with this spiritual awareness and enlightenment. And they even had enlightened tea with this special flower thing. And there was a New York Times food critic who said he went to this lunch that she had and he was like, it was life-changing. And then I had to go to Korea or wherever it was like it was life-changing and then I had to go to

Korea or wherever it was to experience it for 30 days and learn about it That guy's name is Jeff Gordon yay that New York Times writer and he did a story on me and my family That was in the New York Times called vegans called vegans go glam It came out a couple years ago and when he came to our house to interview us He had just come from that experience. He was like I gotta tell you about he told us the whole story and i was like okay like i didn't really get it until that chef's table episode came out and i was like oh now i get it but but he wrote an incredible piece for the new york times about her and her work that i'm sure people can find yeah that's interesting but food does something to our physical makeup.

There's no question about it. Yeah. I mean, you transform your physical body and your energy transform when you transform the foods you ate. Yeah. And, like, you know, I don't want to sound like a crazy woo-woo hippie, but I believe that— You sleep in a tent. Yeah. We can talk about that if you want. I'll grab that if you want. When you take high vibration, live foods into your body,

it's gonna have an impact that's different from taking in something that is dead, you know, and heavy. Yeah, I hear ya. Ever since moving. It's my direct experience. An N of one experiment. It's so funny though, there's other people, there's this guy Mark Bell, have you seen, you know who this is?

No. He's got a podcast and he's on Instagram and YouTube. He's a big bodybuilding guy. He used to be, like, really overweight. Not overweight, just a big, massive guy. And he's leaner than ever. He's still huge and strong. And he's on, like, the carnivore diet, which is all healthy meats. But he looks healthier and younger than ever and leaner than ever.

And I'm just like, there's so many different diets out there, but I'm, I'm a big believer in a plant-based diet. And ever since moving to LA, I've been surrounded by you and my other friend, Bill Glazer, who's just like been vegan. Bill's all about it. It's been vegan for a while. I go to more vegan restaurants and I just start to eat more vegan foods, but it's just like a, it's like a switch. I have to find a switch to be able to turn it off about meat. And it wasn't until I watched Okja. Did you watch the documentary?

Oh yeah, Okja, yeah. It wasn't until I watched Okja where I actually had an emotional connection to meat, but it only lasted for about a month. And then, I don't know, I can justify it some other way. There's other doctors who talk about how meat is good for you when you're having certain types or whatever. So it's challenging. But you gave me some good advice. You said if you're going to eat meat, at least don't eat dairy.

Yeah. That's what you told me, I think. It's like dairy is one of the worst things in your mind. Yeah, cut out dairy and limit your meat intake if you're not ready to go 100% plant-based. So right now, even if you're the most informed and diligent consumer and you're poking around the internet, it can be very, very confusing. There's so much debate and acrimony when it comes to this conversation that we're having about what is the optimal human diet. most of the experts and certainly the ones that I respect the most will agree upon one fundamental fact, which is that a diet high in fiber, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, beans, these things, is really the path forward. And when you kind of look at the blue zones and the people that live the longest and the happiest, these are people who are eating a very small amount of meat at most, maybe some fish.

And their diet basically consists of what I just mentioned. And so I think there's wisdom in that. And we want to overcomplicate it. We want to be reductionist about it. It's this, not that. we want to overcomplicate it. We want to say it. We want to be reductionist about it. It's this, not that. So for anybody who's listening, who's struggling because they are confused by all of that, like if you're not ready to cut meat out, you know, just make it a side dish and make the main entree tons of vegetables. You are a recovering addict, right? How long were you

alcoholic for? So I was now, I was an alcoholic. It was probably my first drink around 17, and I got sober at 31. I am a recovering alcoholic. Alcoholism took me to some pretty dark and dire places. At age 30, 31, I was somebody who had really squandered a lot of potential and opportunity. When I was a senior in high school, I got into every college I applied to. I was an Olympic hopeful. I don't know that I was good enough to be an Olympic hopeful. Maybe I was with an emphasis on hope and practicality. But yeah, no, I was a world-ranked swimmer.

I swam at Stanford in the late 1980s. We won two NCAA championships when I was there. I was a benchwarmermer though. Let's be clear about that. And alcoholism really, you know, destroyed my potential as an athlete. It undermined every aspect of who I was. It stripped me of all my ambitions and potential. And by the time I was 31, I was a pretty broken human being. You know, I was alienated from my friends and my family. I was, you I was the guy who just never showed up and would lie to you. I was sleeping on a bare mattress in a shitty apartment with

no furniture in it, about to get fired from my job. I had two DUIs, and I just could not stop drinking. I could not stop drinking. Of course, I knew I was an alcoholic, and I just had that moment of clarity one day that you hear about with people that are in recovery where I was like, I just can't, I can't live this way anymore. I ended up going to a treatment center in Oregon where I thought I was going to go for, you know, the 28-day deal that most people do. And I ended up living there for 100 days, which is kind of a long time. Did you feel like you needed to stay because you weren't ready to leave and go back to the real world of temptation? What happened was I got there and I started telling people

how I was actually living and what I was doing for the very first time. And the counselors there were like, dude, I know you think you're going to spin out of here in a couple weeks, but we really think that you need to stay. You have, very vividly recall this one guy saying, you have a case of alcoholism that we only see in 65-year-old lifelong drinkers. And if you don't get this right,

you're going to go back out into the world and you're going to die. And I see it all the time. And I was able to hear that. And I was very aware that my best thinking had me essentially in a mental institution. And as somebody who was that guy who had so much promise, you know, it was a pretty precipitous fall. And I never wanted to have to go back. And so I thought, I'm going to stay here and I'm going to make sure that I get this right. And that's what I did. And then in the wake of that, you

know, came back to Los Angeles. And my priority was to build the strongest foundation of sobriety that I could. And that was my number one thing, going to AA meetings and immersing myself in the community here, the recovery community in Los Angeles. And then trying to repair all the wreckage that I had created as a result of my- Relationships. Yeah, relationships and just professionally. And really, I was like, I used to be here, I fell this far, I got to get back up on top. And in retrospect I was like, I used to be here. I fell this far. I got to get back up on top. And in retrospect, looking back, I wasn't really aware of it at the time. I took a lot of that compulsive addict energy and I put it into my work. You know,

I was like, and I justified it by saying, look, you know, I have this potential. I got to regain it. You know, I have to repair this. and it worked, you know by the time I was 39 I had succeeded I had repaired those relationships You know I was seated in this successful lawyer like partnership track a law firm had a portion the drive I had all this stuff but that's when that existential crisis started to percolate up because I I never really thought like is this what I want to do I Just it was more like I need society to perceive me in this way.

And this is what somebody of my education is supposed to do without ever really taking a beat to say, well, what is it that I want to do? Like, what's unique to me? What gets me excited and out of bed in the morning? That was never part of the inner mental dialogue and nothing that I ever really considered in a real way. And that just played it out, played itself out as long as it could until I had that second bottom, you know, on that staircase, which was very similar to that bottom that I had with drinking,

you know, where I realized like my life is unsustainable. Like I need to make some significant changes. And when did you get married? I got married about 17 years ago. No, actually, well, Julie and I have been together about 20 years, but we didn't get married for a long time. So we got married, my daughter's 14. We got married about 15 years ago. So you met her after you went to rehab? I met her when I had a year of sobriety. Gotcha. Yeah. And I was celibate during that year, because when I left rehab, they were like, look, your relationship with women is very intertwined with your drinking. And we think that you should hit pause on that and take this time to really figure out who you are. And that was another thing that I took seriously.

And that was a very empowering thing to be celibate for a year and really kind of opt out of dating altogether because you're really not forced to deal with yourself. And then at the end of that year, I met Julie, and then that was it. Wow. Yeah. Do you think you guys would be together if you'd have met two years prior? No way. I would have been a wreck, and she was married.

No, it wouldn't have happened. Yeah, it wouldn't have happened. And on paper, Julie was not the person for me, and I wasn't the person for her. It didn't really make – she was older. She was coming out of a marriage. She had two young boys. Like I was thinking my next girlfriend is going to be, you know, five years younger than me and like really just no drama, you know, no complications or anything like that. But, you know, the heart wants what the heart wants.

Right. How has that evolved in the last 20 years since you've known her? It's been incredible. You know, I mean, prior to meeting her, I couldn't sustain a relationship. I couldn't be honest. I couldn't be faithful. And I was really scared to be in a relationship with her, especially since she had two boys. And, you know, we're going on almost 20 years now. It's been incredible. And it's been, you know, it's been an evolution of trying to figure out how to cohabitate with another human being for that long period of time is challenging. And I think one of the things that's allowed us to continue to grow alongside of each other is that she is very independent and I'm independent and, you know, I'm not looking at

each other. It's like, it's like you complete me. It's like, it's not that like we're on our own journeys. Our personal growth trajectories are between ourselves and our version of God really. And I don't rely on her to fix me and she's not looking to me for the same. And so we can come together and like make magic. And, you know, we work together too. We write cookbooks together. We do retreats. So we're professionally enmeshed as well as we are personally enmeshed. And, you know, as parents of four kids, I think it's easy to allow a relationship

to then be defined by what you guys are doing together in a career context, you know? Like all your conversations are about like, okay, we got it. Did you email that person back? And what are we doing about this? And so we've had to be very diligent about making sure that we know when we're working together and when it's like personal family or personal time. Yeah, that's cool. And what has being a recovering addict taught you about compassion for others? Oh, it's been huge. It's been huge. All the tools that I've learned to navigate the world began with what I learned in rehab and what

I continue to learn in recovery. It's made me much more compassionate towards other people because I've come to understand that, you know, we all have our own pain. You know, when you're in the recovery community, you're constantly meeting people and hearing their stories, what it was like for them, what happened and what it's like now. And you become very connected with that journey of how life can be very difficult. And I think whether you're an addict or not, we're all walking around in the world with our masks on. And it's easy to just presume or project onto other people that they have it easy or that they're not having the same struggles that you are having.

But in truth, I've come to understand and learn and really take to heart that you don't know what people are going through. And I've gone through a lot and I've been in a very dark, low place. And so I don't really judge other people's experiences. And that's a perspective I brought into the podcast too even when I have people on that I don't agree with or don't see the world in the same way

I'm able to have empathy for them and I'm able to kind of find a way to you know respect wherever somebody is coming from wrong yeah well what's the big lesson that you try to teach your kids now? I think the big lesson, well, it's multifold, but I think at the core of it is teaching them that the most important thing, well, as parents, the most important thing I want to instill in them is a sense of self-assuredness and self-confidence. Belief in themselves. Yeah, belief in themselves. And then with that, I try to encourage them to find something that they care about. And I don't really care what that is.

I just want them to have something that excites them. And then my job and my wife's job is to find a way to fuel that and support that. Because I think that's the engine that will propel an individual to success later in life. Rather than saying, you should have this career, you should have that career, like whatever it is that they're naturally gravitating towards, like I try to pay attention to that and then find a way to be a support system for that.

So for example, my 14-year-old daughter started painting when she was like four years old, five years old. She sold paintings to our friends when she was a little girl. She moved away from it for a while, and then she came back to it. And then she decided on her own that she wanted to apply to get into the performing arts school here in Los Angeles, which is very difficult to get into. So we got her a mentor, this young girl who had gone to art school here in Los Angeles, which is very difficult to get into. So we got her a mentor, this young girl who had gone to art school. And she worked with her for over a year, helping her learn how to paint, putting a portfolio together. She applied to this school and she just got in. So it's super exciting. And the analogy is it took me a very long time to find something that

I cared about that I could invest myself in. And my message that I put out in the books and what I write about in the podcast and all of that is like, you know, find what is true to your heart and pursue that with everything that you have. So I have to believe that that is true for myself and the people that I'm communicating with, that it has to be true with my children as well. Yeah, yeah.

What's the biggest challenge of being a parent? The biggest challenge is understanding that you can't control their environment. You have to allow them to have their own experiences and come to their own conclusions. Even if you know what's best, your job is to kind of guide them gently in a direction that you see fit. But when they stumble or they end up making a bad decision, you have to sometimes step back and allow that to unfold without getting overly involved in it.

That's got to be so challenging for a control freak who wants them to be like, do this. No, no, no. Yeah, but like, you know, I've learned from the way that I grew up that it's important to provide a little bit of space and freedom. And you can't insulate them from the pain that life is inevitably going to deliver. So your job isn't to make sure

that they avoid that at all costs, but to make sure that they're loved and supported when something like that inevitably occurs. Yeah, and are your parents still around? Mm-hmm, yeah. They live in Washington, D.C. They do? Yeah, they're still together.

Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the biggest lessons you learned from both of them? That's a good question. My father is a gentleman's gentleman, a very successful lawyer in Washington, D.C., and now he's become an author himself. So we're both writing books, and we can bond over that. That's cool. I think what I learned from him is, and from my mom as well, who's an educator, the importance of learning

and education. Like that was something that was impressed upon me at a young age. Probably not in the healthiest way, maybe a little tick too much, but a respect for the importance of learning, not just in school, but throughout your life. That's cool. And what's the biggest challenge you're faced with right now? I think the biggest challenge that I'm faced with right now is learning what to say no to. I hear you there. Because my life is big. Opportunity, overload. Yeah, as you know, I'm sure you're in this situation all the time.

You're on the receiving end of a lot of cool opportunities. And it's because life was so hard not so long ago, like now I'm in a position to take advantage of things that were not being offered to me then. And it's all awesome. Like I want to say yes to everything because it's all super cool. So the challenge is being clear

on what it is that I'm actually doing and making sure that the decisions I'm making are driving that forward rather than using those opportunities as distractions that ultimately prevent me from being as impactful or successful as I know that I can be. Instead of being good at lots of things, being great at a few things and staying focused.

Right. Well, for example, like somebody says, hey, we want to pay you a bunch of money to come and speak at this conference and at some really cool resort and we'll put you up and all of that. And it's like, yeah, we want to pay you a bunch of money to come and speak at this conference and at some really cool resort and we'll put you up and all of that. And it's like, yeah, I want to do that. Then you're like, but if I do that, then that's all this time away and I'm going to fall behind in this other project that I'm working on. So in the balance of things, like what is most important for me to do? Yeah.

You know. I hear you. So saying no, having boundaries, that's difficult for me. And, you know, I'm a people pleaser at heart, you know? I hear you. So saying no, having boundaries, that's difficult for me. And, you know, I'm a people pleaser at heart, you know? Yeah. So it's difficult for me to say no to anything. I hear you. I'll make sure not to ask you in front of me. No, you can. I'm just kidding. Before I ask the final few questions, I want to make sure you guys get the new book or the updated book, Finding Ultra, Rejecting Middle Age, Becoming One of the World's Fittest Men, and Discovering Myself. Very powerful, updated, expanded,

100 plus new pages, nutritional stuff in there as well. Make sure you guys check this out. Very powerful story, journey, insights, all the things. You got a new cookbook out too. Yeah, that's right. So this second edition of Finding Ultra just came out. Super excited about it. And I appreciate the fact that you had, it was there. This was sitting up there. Yeah, it wasn't there. I could see it in all your videos and I really just pulled it down.

I was like, how long is that going to sit up there before he swaps it out? Keep the favorites. Yeah, thank you. I wanted to take the opportunity to rewrite it for the reasons I already mentioned, to bring it up to speed. But it's about 100 pages longer. It's got a brand new prescriptive chapter that has all the tools and the resources and the strategies that I employ to transform my life. It's got a new forward.

It's got beefed up appendices. It's got a recipe section. There's all kinds of bells and whistles. So even if you read it originally and enjoyed it, there's plenty there for you to enjoy the second time around. And then, yes, on April 24th, we have a new cookbook coming out called The Plant Power Way Italia. We had, my wife and I wrote a book several years ago called The Plant Power Way. This is, yeah, Italia is Italy, Lewis, Ohio boy. This book is like next level, 125 plant-based recipes. Italian plant-based recipes.

Everything's Italian. It's informed by these retreats that we do every year in the Tuscan countryside, working with chefs there and taking groups of people through a week-long transformation. And we took all of that, put it in this amazing book, and super excited about that. That's pretty cool. Yeah. It's good. The photography, everything. It's like a coffee table book. You're going to want to leave out. You're going to want to use it. All the recipes are very family oriented, family friendly, delicious, they're gonna fill you up, it's not just salads, it's all the good stuff

that you love about Italian food. Wow, sounds amazing. And I heard a rumor that if you pre-order a copy of that, you're entered into a contest to potentially get a free ticket to the next retreat, is that what I heard? Yeah, that's a, wow, you did your homework. So, yeah, we just announced this contest. We're going back to Italy in May 19th through 26th

and we're taking a group of about 35 people. It's sold out, but somebody, a woman had to back out for some reason. So we have this extra, this open spot and we were thinking, well, we'll just, we'll sell it. And then we thought, well, let's use this opportunity, this pre-order campaign, to offer this spot to somebody who wants it. So it's a woman only, because it's in a shared female room. So it's only available to women.

But if you're interested in learning more about that, go to my website, and I have a blog post up that has a form to fill out and all that good stuff. Yeah, so you gotta buy the book and then enter the form, I'm assuming. So that's richroll.com for that. Very cool. Final couple questions. This one is called the three truths. I think I asked it to you last time, but I'll ask it again. If this was your final day for you many years from now and you've achieved everything you want, you became your greatest self, tackled everything, every challenge. Any dream you had, you made come true.

Wrote all the books, everything. But for whatever reason, you had to take everything with you on your last day. So nothing could stay for us to have access to these books or the content you put out there. It's all with you in the grave and gone into another spiritual realm. But you did have the opportunity to leave behind one piece of paper with the three things you need to be true about all your lessons in life, all your experiences that you would share with the world. And this is the only thing that we would have to have access to your words and wisdom. What would you say are your three truths?

Wow, man, that's tough. Let's see. You did not ask me this before, so this is new. I would say live true to yourself, give freely to others, and love deeply. Not much more than that is important. There you go. Powerful. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Rich, for constantly showing up. I mean, you're 51. You put me to shame with your health, your abilities, everything, but your compassion towards humanity and wanting to just love on people in the sense of not judging people, making people wrong. I think that's one of your biggest superpowers is your ability to lead through humility

while putting yourself through any type of challenge or adversity and just share your story. And I think the art of storytelling has been lost for a lot of us. We don't think we are, who are we to share our story publicly? And your ability to do it and continue to show up and share it even though it's not perfect every day for you,

is really inspiring and powerful. So I want to acknowledge you for that, man. Thank you, my friend. Of course. It's a privilege and an honor to sit across from you once again. Mad love and respect for everything that you're doing and what you've built here and the service that you provide to so many people. So always good to see you.

Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is really probably a variation on what I would leave behind. To be great is to live in a way that has fidelity to who you truly are. Like, are you fully self-actualized? So to be great is to live in that self-actualized way and to give away freely the wisdom that you've

accumulated as a result of trudging that road. Rich Roll. The legend. He's my friend. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. See you.

I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, make sure to check out the full show notes lewishouse.com slash 619 check out the full video interview all the links the resources check out Rich's book over there as well and big thank you to Rich again if you enjoyed this take a screenshot on your phone right now of this podcast, post it over on your Instagram story, tag me at Lewis Howes, tag at Rich Roll. Let us know what you think. We're pretty active over there. And if you send us a message, most likely we try to respond to as many as we can. So check it out over on Instagram at Lewis Howes at Rich Roll. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Super pumped excited about this and if you did make sure to again spread some love out to your friends online leave us a review over on iTunes and as always let

me know what you think about this episode over on social media Twitter Facebook Instagram and subscribe over on YouTube we've got a quarter of a million people who have subscribed to our YouTube channel it's youtube.com slash Lewis house And what I loved about the quote we talked about in the beginning, Jeff Bezos said, what's dangerous is not to evolve. If you're not growing every single day, if you're not challenging yourself, stepping up into a bigger goal, a bigger dream, then that's what's dangerous. It's staying comfortable, staying in your comfort zone and not allowing yourself to progress.

And it's been inspiring to see what Rich Roll has done after 50 to push the boundaries of human potential. I love you guys. I hope you enjoyed this one. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Bye.