The School of Greatness - 622 Love Everyone Always with Bob Goff

Episode Date: April 2, 2018

“HUMBLE VOICES CARRY FURTHER IN THIS WORLD.” All of us want to be loved and accepted. It’s how we were brought into this world, and it’s how we should be spending our lives. I’ve learned that if you want to get love you have to learn to give it, but it’s not always that easy. I’m sure you’ve found yourself around people who you may find creepy or that may hate on you for seemingly no reason. Your knee jerk reaction is probably to respond with an attack back, but that does the opposite of what anyone wants. Hate breeds hate and love breeds love. At the end of the day, how do you want to be remembered? I know I want to be remembered as someone who lit the way with love, compassion, and really tried to understand everyone I encountered. On this episode of The School of Greatness I’ve brought you someone who has been spreading nothing but love around the entire world: Bob Goff. Bob is one of the most interesting people I’ve ever met. He used to be a lawyer and has since turned his life into one designed to spread love. He is a New York Times best selling author, a diplomat, and a phenomenal speaker. He’s helped build schools and shelters around the world. He’s saved lives by educating witch doctors in other countries, and has even become the Uganda consolut to the US. This was easily one of the most interesting interviews I’ve ever done. Bob’s mission is one I truly believe in. And believe it or not despite everything he’s done he still gets haters on social media. We discuss how he deals with those haters, how you can love deeper, and how you can overcome your insecurities. Discover all of that and much more, on Episode 622. Some Questions I Ask: Are you insecure? (7:34) How do you do what you do? (8:50) What did you learn from the last 25 years of being magnetic? (12:24) Why did you want to become an attorney in the first place? (15:57) When did you build your first school? (21:03) What’s your best piece of advice that does rhyme? (26:17) Who are you right now? (28:22) How do you get in touch with the humblest version of you? (30:06) What does faith have to do with loving difficult people or situations? (32:54) How do you know if you are engaging people too long? (37:05) How do you deal with haters when you’re just trying to spread love? (39:48) You engaged with witchcraft people in Uganda? (43:50) Do you go to the witch doctor graduations? (46:17) What do you still need patience in? (52:27) How did you transfer from being a lawyer to having a massive social media audience? (53:53) What’s the biggest lesson you think you still need to master? (59:50) In This Episode You Will Learn: How people get caught up in stereotypes (6:46) Bob’s boat race experience (10:25) What Bob wants more than anything right now (13:06) Who I want to be in 10 years (14:20) Bob’s first publishing deal (17:33) How to really engage with someone (20:13) How to work towards the success you want (23:01) The way Bob handles haters (30:26) How you can make a large impact in the world (36:04) Why love will be what we’re remembered for (41:29) The biggest lesson Bob’s learned from witch doctors (48:30) Where the best headlines of your book would come from (51:10) Why Bob wrote his latest book (1:00:45) Plus much more

This is episode number 622 with New York Times best-selling author Bob Goff. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Thomas Merton said, our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. Oh man, does that ring true? And I try to bring on the most inspiring people in the world and especially learn the

things that I need to learn the most about in that moment. And we've got Bob Goff on for a reason for so many people. There's a lot of conflict happening in the world lately. I see it on social media, on Facebook. I have it in my own personal life, but I hear so many people talking about conflict in politics and at work and relationships. And man, how do we just love each other fully, even if we don't think they're worthy of our love? We're here to debate this today and really enlighten ourselves on how to love deeper, even if someone does something wrong or they're hurting people, what we can do in that situation

to navigate all of this. Bob Goff, he was an attorney for 25 years, and he left his practice to pursue writing, speaking, and international philanthropy full-time. He is a New York Times bestselling author of the book Love Does, a phenomenon that gave birth to the Love Does organization, a nonprofit providing education to children in conflict zones around the world. He is also a diplomat recognized as the honorary consul for the Republic of Uganda. This guy goes everywhere and just touches people and impacts people in a loving, powerful way. His new book, Everybody Always, Becoming Love in a World Full of Setbacks and Difficult People. It's out. You can get it right now. Again, how do we become love, attract love in a world of setbacks and

conflicting people, conflicting ideas, opinions, points of views, actions, all these things. Not saying people are right by doing certain things that might be extremely wrong, but how do we become love in those situations and not let that consume our body, our energy, our mindset, and hold us back? Well, in this episode, we talk about these things and some of the main things are where our insecurities come from and how to overcome them and why this conflict may arise with a lot of different people in your life. Also, the difference between what's true and what's magnetic, how to think about failure, how to deal with these conflicting individuals and haters that you might have in your life, and what will actually be

remembered for in our lifetime. This is going to be a juicy one, and I am excited. Make sure to take a screenshot of this, post it on Instagram stories, post it on Twitter, on Facebook, lewishouse.com slash 622 for the link to share out to your friends. All right. You were born in love and you're meant to be love throughout the rest of your time. Let's introduce you to the one and only Bob Goff. All right. Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the inspiring and legendary Bob Goff in the house. Good to see you, sir. Hey, thanks for letting me come. Very excited you're here. You've got some of the most incredibly magnetic energy that I've ever seen. So I'm glad you're here. And for a former attorney, that's nice. It's refreshing. Isn't that crazy? Because as a lawyer, everybody thinks you're supposed to be uptight and

argumentative and condescending. But actually, many of the lawyers I've met are actually really nice people. They just sometimes you take on a caricature of who you think you're supposed to be. And that isn't just lawyers. That's, you know, you pick the thing. Everybody has this idea of what they're supposed to be like. And what if instead of that, we were just us? Like you have a big podcast.

It's this great big one. So people have this idea of who you must be without even knowing you. And then they meet you. You're have a big podcast. It's this great big one. So people have this idea of who you must be without even knowing you. Right. And then they meet you. You're like, nice guy. Just a normal dude. Yeah. So what if we just like, I just assume that people aren't who you think they are, that they're just, just assume they're really nice people. Yeah. Insecure in just different ways that you're insecure. Do you feel like you're insecure? I am. I actually, you know, I don't walk around like as a timid guy, but somehow I got in my mind, I think it was in high school, that if people actually really, really got to know me, that they wouldn't like me. Isn't that

crazy? Why? Do you still think that? No, I think that's taken like decades to kind of loop back to say, where in the world did that come from? I'm not really sure the return address on that, but we each get something in our mind. It could be something where you're rejected and, you know, you invite somebody to the prom and they say, you know, actually, I'd rather do something else. Actually, anything else. Did that happen to you? Yeah. Oh, dude, I still remember it. Yeah, I finally got up the guts to ask Paula, right? And then she's like, nope. So the round trip on that was like 30 seconds.

Yeah. But I think if we could figure out, without getting caught in an eddy of introspection, just figure out why do you do what you do. That would actually be really helpful. You could not just get absorbed in introspection, but to reflect on like are you doing it for applause? Because if you're doing it for applause

join the circus. Are you doing it for validation? Are you doing it? Are you doing it because you want to just express love to people? Yeah. That's worth asking. Why do you do what you do? I used to be a lawyer by training but then I switched over. 25 years right? Yeah Yeah, pretty long time. And it was the difference between practicing law and doing justice. And it's just a quarter of a turn. You know, if you go down to downstairs in a wine cellar, there would be like this, these dusty bottles of wine, and there's somebody down there giving them each a quarter of a turn. And I never knew until recently that that's the sediment sticks to the glass. And

that's how you make the wine clear. And I think sometimes what it takes for each of us in our lives is just a quarter of a twist. A lot of people are like a job or two behind who they've turned into. That isn't a bad thing. That's actually how it's supposed to work. My world view is this kind of like we're new creations. I've spent 59 years with old Bob, but I met new Bob like five hours ago. He was fighting traffic getting up here. But to say, who's new Bob? And to say like, you know, newest version of you, newest version of each of the people listening. And to just talk to that person and to just say, well, who do you want to become? Why do you do what you do? And then what's the impact you want to make? And usually it just takes a quarter of a twist.

Yeah. I was talking to this young guy. He said, Bob, you've impacted me so much. I've done a 360 degree turn in my life. I'm like, actually, you're right back where you started. All the way around. Yeah, yeah. I just give it a couple quarter twists backwards. Should be 180 maybe. Yeah, exactly. 180 could be like awesome, but 360, not so much. Or even just a small degree. Yeah. One degree can shift everything, the projection of your life. Yes.

To a whole new stratosphere. Yeah, you know what I was thinking about when I was driving up here? There's a race. It's the Transpac race. It starts right off the coast here in Long Beach. And you go to Diamond Head. That's the finish line. And so in the Transpac race, you have right off the coast here in Long Beach. And you go to Diamond Head, that's the finish line. And so in the Transpac race, you have to steer by the stars, right? You can't do GPS and all that. So we had this small crew of guys. We got this 35-foot boat, which is

like two Tercels end to end. It's a pretty small boat. But this guy that was going to be the navigator was a navigator on a destroyer. So we had like this ringer. Well, two days before the race, they changed his orders and he couldn't go. They made me the navigator. By the stars. What a bad idea. To get to Hawaii. Yeah. So I went to West Marine. I said, I'm like, I need a map. They're like, it's a chart. I'm like, whatever. Like, so I got this chart out and a yardstick. I put one end on Long Beach and the other end on Diamond Head. I drew a line and there's a compass rose in the upper right-hand corner. So, I just figured out what the bearing was and we steered that for the first 1,700 miles. Did you know there's a difference between true and magnetic north?

And from here to downtown, it's two inches. But from here to Hawaii, you miss the entire chain. Your first landfall will be Japan. And I think... Where'd you go? Yeah, yeah. We figured it out after 1,700 miles, hung a left, and went the last 500 the right direction. But there's a difference in my life.

Maybe you've seen that too, between what's true and what's just magnetic. So winning arguments, that's magnetic, right? But I want to listen for the truest voice, not the loudest voice. I don't want to go for what's magnetic anymore. I want to give my life a quarter of a twist. And a lot of that means encountering some of the people that have been really difficult to deal with, but encountering them with love. Faith's a big deal for me. And so I just, I don't want people to meet all my opinions. I actually want them to meet love. Yeah, wow.

What did you learn from the last 25 years of being magnetic and winning these arguments, essentially? Because it sounds like you probably won some arguments in the court that maybe wasn't justice, right? Or a lot of people, I guess, win, but maybe it isn't the right justice, but you become so magnetic that you're convincing. Isn't that right? Well, one of the things I think that happens is we're looking for validation. So you can get your validation from your work or your titles or whatever it is.

So it's just I'm right back to that thing of like thinking, why do I do what I do? It would just be such a great thing. Like your feet hit the floor in the morning before you hit the coffee pot. Like, why am I going to do what I'm going to do? I'll give you a couple examples. Like, so I have three kids and I want to be a grandpa more than I want to breathe. So two of them are married right now. And I'm just waiting. Forget Instagram. I want sonogram. So I schedule things nine months in a day in the future. Only nine months in a day because somebody's going to show me a sonogram. I'll finish up what I'm doing. You'll never hear from me again. Because I spent a bunch of my life trying to do things that worked and a quarter of a twist on that. I want to do things that last.

and a quarter of a twist on that, I want to do things that last. And like investing in my kids and being available, this 18-inch like grandkid won't know I'm there, but my kids will know. Because my kids right now, if you ask them,

where's your dad? They'd be like, they just point at earth. Because you're all over the place. Yeah, like Sydney earlier this week in New York, all that. But I just want to be that guy that if you know who you're

becoming, which is a grandpa, and I can be with anybody, then it informs who you are right now. So think of you plus 10 years. So me, I'm 59. So me plus 10 years, 69-year-old Bob, I bet he has a bunch of nine-year-old grandkids running around. That's my hope. Yeah. So think of you at 10 and tell me about that guy. Who are you in 10 years? I'll be 45 in 10 years. Okay. Tell me about that guy. I'm my most authentic self. I'm my best self. I'm following through on all the commitments, the habits, the routines that I want to live into. And I'm making the deepest impact on humanity. Yeah. And I feel like I'm doing that now, but it could always be better. Yeah. Striving to impact more people. Then the new version of you, the new version of me, the new version of everybody that works around us, just to continue to encourage people and point

them towards that. Yeah. The people that have been kindest to me were the ones that spoke these words over me. There's a guy named Brad Quick. I remember in college, they were having like a Bible study at his house. And they said, I got there early. It must have been daylight savings time or something because I never got anywhere on time. And he said, you know what? It really honors me that you got here on time. We're on time. And he said, you know what? It really honors me that you got here on time.

And you know, this was 38 years ago that he told me that. But I got here 20 minutes early. You know why? Because Brad Quick told me 38 years ago, I was that guy. I was the guy that got places on time. And so I don't freak out about it. I just get on time because somebody, just not a mystical thing, they just spoke that into my life. And so I want to just say true words to people talk about who they're becoming not all the versions of who they used to be and what we spend a lot of times it seems like is focusing on who people used to be

and I'm more interested in like this is where the music changes in the movie and like tell me who you're turning into now we got a game wow and why did you want to become a attorney in the movie. Tell me who you're turning into. Now we got a game. Wow. And why did you want to become an attorney in the first place? Back in my day, there was every guitar shop had this sign with a circle and a cross through it saying,

no stairway to heaven. Because that was the little lick that everybody knew how to play and everybody was so over it. And I just didn't want it. I thought I wanted to be like a youth leader guy. There's this outfit that does that, and you can raise your support.

So I raised it all, and I said, so can I be a youth leader? And they said no. Really? I'm like, well, it won't cost you anything. They're like, I guess they thought I wouldn't be good with people. So I went to law school because I wanted to. So your dream, you didn't make your dream come true, essentially. No, I didn't, but it just changed.

I gave it a quarter of a twist. Yeah. And I was a construction lawyer. And I didn't do that because Jesus was a carpenter. It just was interesting to me. And so I just started trying construction cases up and down the coast in Seattle and San Diego and L.A. But I gave that a quarter of a twist. I go in LA. And so, but I gave that a quarter of a twist. And I started seeing the needs when my kids were the age of these kids that were being bought and sold in India and other places. I

thought, man, I want to get some skin in that game. So I kept my day job as a lawyer. I had a law firm that had my name on it, but I gave it a quarter of a twist. And I just started spending more and more time overseas and doing this thing. And I don't think God's wild when we go across an ocean. I think he's dazzled when we go across the street, when you go to the office mate next to you, when you go to somebody who's been kind of difficult, who's let you down. So that's what I've been trying to do.

I've been just, one thing, like in your life, leads to another thing. And then a publisher said, will you write a book? And I said, I don't know, will you build a school? I'll trade you one book for one school. They said, I you write a book? And I said, I don't know. Will you build a school? I'll trade you. One book for one school. They said, how big is the school? I said, a thousand child soldiers and a hundred teachers. They're like, big school? I said, big book. So I wrote the first book. It was called Love Does. And I made them pay me in advance. I didn't know if it'd be any good. And so we built the school and then they sold a bunch of copies of it. So we built

the next school in Mogadishu, Somalia, and the next one in Iraq. We've got one in Nepal and an orphanage and one in India. So we're still endeavoring to start schools. You know why? Because I talked to the next version of me. I talked to Bob Plus 10 and he's going to be at home with his grandkids. So I'm like, let's make some moves. That's a movement, just a bunch of people making moves. So I just hope for each of your listeners that they're just making their next move, whatever that is. But don't make a move towards, you know, like burning down other people's opinions because that doesn't make you right. It makes you an arsonist. So just engage people, engage them with love. And that isn't this

like hallmarky kind of like fluffy thing. You can be love and justice. They can go hand in hand. You were saying earlier where you don't have to agree with someone, you know, you don't have to agree with someone sacrificing a child or selling people, human beings, whatever it may be, but you can also connect with them and engage, right? Yeah, engage. That idea. We were just talking a little bit earlier before I stopped in about how if you get one handful of sand, that's 400,000 grains of sand. Is that terrific? I haven't stopped to count, but I've got it on good knowledge. But if you live 92 years, and I'm sure you will because you're really fit, and you meet 12 people a day. That's 400,000.

So we're going to meet a handful of people. What if you say, I'm going to have 12 conversations a day? This counts as one. I got to talk to some friends of yours before we got started. That counts as two. The rest of the time I've spent, no, no, no, that counts as one because we were in a group. So that's two. And I'm going to spend a

bunch of time in traffic. So I better put somebody on the speakerphone if I'm going to get to 12 because I actually want to have conversations, not ricochet off people. I don't want to just do that. And with what you do, a lot of people know of you, but I want to make sure a couple of people actually know you. And indeed they have because they've heard you speak about things, but it would be a shame if we were known of, but we were like actually strangers to the people that were around us. Right. Like we were in proximity to people and not really present.

Have you ever done that? If you're at a dinner party and somebody's looking right past you at the next person? Yeah. So Sweet Maria Goff and I will play softball together. Like we just play catch. And I don't even like baseball, but we play catch of the ball because if you answer your cell phone, you'll lose teeth. You have to be present. Yeah, you totally go get a softball. You literally just go play catch. Frisbee something, yeah. Whatever it is, just be present. Lose the cell phones. You don't need to put them in a fishbowl.

But just like that idea of just being present, you'll have those 12 conversations. And you know what? You'll change. Instead of thinking everybody else is going to change, you'll actually change. And you'll change into the next humblest version of you. So that's what Maria's hoping. She's hoping when I get back from L.A., I'm a more humble guy than I left this morning. Yeah, so that's what Maria's hoping. She's hoping when I get back from LA, I'm a more humble guy than I left this morning. Yeah. So that's her hope every day. That's cool. Yeah. When did you

start to, when did you build your first school? Let's see. It was 18 years ago. 18 years. Isn't that crazy? I feel like the crypt keepers now. Yeah. So we just started. They said you need to have all these like permission. Uganda had been caught up in this 25-year civil war. Hundreds of thousands of people had died as a result of this. And so we went to northern Uganda, and we just said, let's just start a school. There's 400,000 kids that had never been in school. So we let as many as we could know. Hundreds of thousands of kids said, we're starting a school.

You can come for free. You know how many showed up? Nine. But I wasn't bummed. I'm like, we got a soccer team. And so like that whole idea to just start and this is a beautiful, it's both proverb and it's a saying in Africa, don't despise small beginnings. Just because I think God delights when we just start the work. It's actually Zachariah that talks about that. 410, that's just don't despise small beginnings. And so start small. So if you hear something that resonates with you during the day, I'm just like, what if I just start small? What's like one step in that direction? If you're like me, and I bet you are in many ways, are you done the Enneagram thing?

It's like a personality thing. I'm a seventh. I've done it, but I forget what it is. Oh, we got to get you hooked up before the end of the day. I'm trying to like Myers-Briggs and all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. So Enneagram is like kind of one through nine. So seven is the enthusiast. I think that's probably me. Yeah. Yeah. So the enthusiast wants to spend every day at Disneyland, right? But I don't spend every day there. I spend Wednesdays there. Isn't that crazy? Every Wednesday.

Why do you do what you do? Because I teach a class at Pepperdine Law School on failure. Isn't that awesome? It's the only class I know at a top-tier law school on how to fail. And each week, I just bring in my friends who've screwed up in front of Earth. So I just be like, if you haven't screwed up in front of a. So I just feel like if you haven't screwed up in front of a million people, we got nothing in common. So one of the things that I don't want people to do

is we kind of get this idea that we need to go with this upward trending from one success to the other. And actually, what's marked me is just a bunch of times where it didn't work or some went way awry. But it's kind of what you do next. What do you do with that? How are you going to grow? And you know who I spend most of my time talking to?

Next version of Bob. So talk about that guy. But the important thing for me is to not forget that childlike faith, right? So that eight-year-old version. Tell me about you when you were eight. Oh, man. Tell me about that guy.

Really scared. How so? Really insecure. I was youngest of four, and I didn't have any friends. I was growing really tall and just goofy looking. I could barely read and write at that age. So I just always felt like I was picked on. So for me, I had a lot of passion and excitement, but I was always scared of people's opinions because I didn't have any friends yeah isn't that interesting and so sometimes you can find yourself if you're like me acting like this eight-year-old version all of a sudden it's little Bobby Goff talking I'm like where did he come from I thought we left him behind yeah sometimes it's useful to have that

childlike version of you not childish as guys As guys, we've got childish nailed. But childlike, right? To be like a childlike faith, a childlike approach to things. A curious mind, a passionate, curious mind. Curious about everything. Everything. And then when somebody has like this big opinion about why things, you know, people don't even know why bananas are yellow.

And I'm like, you know, if somebody's telling me about some angel on a head of a horse, I'm like, dude, we don't know why bananas are yellow. So I'll have one of my 12 conversations, but I'm not trying to straighten them out. I'm just curious about how life works for them. This is why I do this podcast. You know, that's why I continue to do it because I'm so curious. There's so many fascinating people in the world that I want to learn from and that I feel like each person I learn, I know an abundance more of information and also feel like I know less of anything. Isn't that true?

It's almost like we're looking through a knothole. And you can see 100% of everything you can see, but you can't see much. Exactly. You just don't realize. I got to learn of everything you can see, but you can't see much. You just don't realize. I got to learn from each person so much, but then I'm like, God, there's so much more to learn that I know nothing about. What if one of the things that's kind of a hallmark for me is this idea of living a noteworthy life? Not noteworthy like other people would know about you, but so engaged in your life that you want to just take notes on it. I bet I send myself 60 emails a day. Just ideas.

Just ideas. I get home at night, I'm like, him again, block. But what I'll do, some people in their faith exercise, they'll have what they call a quiet time. Yeah. And I haven't had one in 20 years. Mine are super loud. And what I'll do is take everything

I thought of the day before, and I'll say, no, it sounds right. Is it actually true? And that's one of those quarter twists. Instead of just saying things that rhyme, because all of a sudden you'll just start giving people advice that rhymes. You know, if you just go with the stuff that sounds right rather than is it really, really true.

Right, yeah, and sounding cool. Bingo. If you ever get advice that rhymes, run. Really? What's your best piece of advice? I'm like, did that just rhyme? What's your best piece of advice that does rhyme? Oh, here's the deal.

Instead of asking, like, how's my life working? If somebody asks you, how's your life working? I would say, awesome. My life's always working for me. I think the better question, a quarter of a twist, is how is your life working for the people around you? Wouldn't that be a great thing to ask some of the people who love you the most? How's your life working? Because I would say for some of us, if our life isn't working for the people we love the most, then actually our life isn't working. And it just

takes a moment of pause and candor with the people and palms up and just say, how's this working? And I've asked that question of Sweet Maria Goff, and she's told me once or twice, you know, like, this actually isn't working for me that great. I've mapped out on a map all the places I'd gone in, like, two years. It was, like, tapestry. I was just, like. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. And I pulled into the driveway after one of these save the world things. I pulled into the driveway and after 33 years

of marriage, this woman has never raised her voice or said a crossword to me. And in the window is a help wanted sign. She wasn't saying she needed help. She was saying I needed help. And she just, in the kindest way, she just said, you know, this is actually not working for me. But instead of scolding me, she loved me. And just like Brad Quick told me, you're that guy. She, in a really loving way, just pointing me back towards the guy that she knows I want to be. And so if we could do a little bit more of that, not telling people what to do, but reminding them who they are.

And that's just a beautiful quarter turn. And you don't even know what happened. You just realize you're like, wow, I just like made an actual beautiful adjustment in my life. But you have to have the conversation. You got to have one of those 12 conversations to get there. Otherwise, if you're just like me, like Tigger, just bouncing off the walls,

you got to find a wise owl. I married one. That's great. Well, who are you right now? Well, think of your life. So I'm 59. So think of when you were like 20, you were guy number two, right? When you're in your 30s, you're guy number three. So I'm 50, 59. I'm like way guy number five, but almost guy number six. I spend most of my time talking to guy number seven. You know, that older version. You're always talking to your future self, not your past self. Talk about that guy.

Yeah, the old guy, that's like, that guy's on the bus. Think about, like, who am I becoming? And so you say some of these patterns and practices, you said, that you've incorporated into your life. You'd want to see those carried forward. The people that help me only tell me what I'm doing today, tomorrow, and the next day. Isn't that great? Why? I want to be present.

I don't want to be thinking about I'm here now and where I got to go next. I'm like, man, you can hook all the electrodes up to me. I'm 100% right here because I actually have no idea what I'm doing after day after tomorrow. And that's super helpful. And, you know, that's the kind of wisdom you can get from the next version of you. I live down on the bay in San Diego. And evidently a lot of people know where I live now. And they'll come by the back of the house on their boat and they'll talk about me.

They don't know I can hear them because their voices carry over water. And you know what I'm learning, probably from the next version of me, is that humble voices carry further in this world. And I think I just don't want to be a loud voice. I want to be a humble voice. And so that moment of pause when somebody does something kind of lame or says something that's a little untoward, to just pause for a moment and say, man, I just want to get a hold of the next humblest version of me. Have that guy do the talking now. How do you do that? I think it's a moment of pause. There's a prudent pause. Some people get paralyzed and there's a difference between being like kind of paralyzed and a prudent pause and

just that idea forget counting to 10 i just be humble just say if someone's coming at you with all they got saying everything that could potentially offend you or attacking you or haters online or whatever you pause you know what i actually do there's three things to say first i just assume they're smarter than me And because oftentimes they'll use bigger words than I can muster up. And so I'll actually try to learn from them. Like I'll look up the words to try to understand. I actually was going to speak at a conference and I wrote a note to one of the other people that was going to speak there. Just said, hey, I'd love to meet you beforehand because you can tell if the people that are speaking, they're all friends, like you know each other and like each other.

And I got this like really mean letter back. It doesn't happen very often because I'm a pretty hard guy not to get along with. But I got this really mean letter back and it had all these words. I looked them up and I just assumed that they were smarter than me. And then I assumed that their faith was more significant than mine, not putting myself down, but I just assumed that they love God more than me and that they were just like doing their thing and expressing where they're at in their life. And I just said, there's a beautiful verse that guides a lot of me. It's to consider others more worthy than yourself. So I just assumed that.

And then the most important step is to think of what's the least creepiest explanation. Because it's easy to come up with the most creepiest explanation for whatever happened. But what if you came up with the least creepiest explanation? I spoke at this gathering. It was maybe six months ago. And this woman, there's 3,000 seats. There's one empty seat in the front row. A woman walks in with a boa around her neck. Not this woman, there's 3,000 seats. There's one empty seat in the front row. A woman walks in with a boa around her neck, not like feathers, like a constrictor. And I'm like, suffering. I'm like, no. And then I'm like, Bob, get ahold of yourself. I just assumed she was smarter than me. All evidence to the contrary. And then I just assumed that her faith was, you know,

more significant than mine, because she was likely to meet God before me on that track. And then I thought, what's the least creepiest explanation? And you know what I came up with? Maybe she doesn't know. I thought she, like, ducked under a branch and wrapped around. I'm like, I'm not telling her. So what if we just, like, just chill out a little bit? It's just, it's just that prudent pause. And that'll keep you from ricocheting off everybody. Because I think that we're, that's keeping us from having some of the conversations that we probably would grow from. Yeah. Because I don't think people like grow where they're informed. I think they'll grow where they're accepted. So, you know, what does faith have to do with loving difficult people or bad situations? Man, faith is so important to

me in that. But I guess I'm not trying to convince other people what they ought to believe. I'm just saying, like, what do I believe? And then how am I going to go about that? And I know that the way that I'm perceived is a guy that's beloved. I actually believe that that is the word spoken over me, you, everybody, whether they are in touch with that or not. Just think about your biggest screw-up, like the thing you don't want anybody in the whole world to ever know about. I just hear God calling us beloved over that. And I think if you're listening in and you're not hearing the word beloved spoken over your biggest screw-up,

it ain't Jesus talking. Just like that whole idea to just be a little bit more situationally aware that we're all going to mess up. You're going to mess up because you're you, and I'm going to mess up because I'm me. But if you can understand in the context of that that we're beloved. And then some of these difficult people, if you want a report card on your faith, see how you're treating the people who creep you out the most. So that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to just engage them. I'm not trying to engage them with all my opinions. I don't want them to meet my opinions. I want them to meet love. But I think we can actually turn into love. You can,

and I can. And so somebody asked me, like, how do you turn into love? I'm like, I don't know. I'm still turning. But I got my eye on the prize because I know where. Here, actually, oh, shoot, if I had my phone, I would figure out where north is. But I will go into a hotel room, and before I put my stuff down,

I'll try to think, where's north? And then I'll guess it, then I'll press that little button on the iPhone to figure out North. I'm always a couple degrees off. And there's something that's beautiful. Like we just get turned around. It's not a moral thing. It's just like a life thing. You're just going so fast. And that's helped me with some people that I found very difficult. I just assume that they're a couple degrees off. But I'm not thinking that I'm the sheriff. I'm not the hall monitor. I'm not their parole officer to bust their chops.

I just want to engage them with love. I want to see some evidence of these beautiful, beloved, like, finding within this person that's incredibly difficult. And it's a target-rich environment these days. But to just say, like, wow, wow, them two, like like dang. And I'd admit, man, I'm not there. I'm not where I want to be. I'm just hoping that guy 10 years from now will be, but I got my eye on the prize. Like I'm just going to continue to try to see these people as beloved and even when I can't, but that it just takes, I think, maybe a little bit longer look. And I would say there's some people I would admit I'm still looking at and I'm still looking for it,

but I'm not going to speak ill about them because I remember a guy who told me that I was a guy that I wasn't yet, and I turned into that guy. It gets there on time. And so I'm not just blowing sunshine at people. I'm just thinking, man, if I look at it long enough, but I'm not going to just be sedentary and look at things. I'm going to be like looking on the way. So this idea in Somalia,

there's a bunch of people that are starving. There's a famine that's hit. We just took a bunch of the money from Love Does. You can charter a cargo plane. We got hold of the World Food Program. We chartered a bunch of the money from Love Does. You can charter a cargo plane. We got hold of the World Food Program. We chartered a plane out of Italy, filled it full of food in Nairobi, and flew and landed in the sand in the western part of Somalia. And you can actually do that. Again, a bigger deal would be to go across the street to somebody that you've been avoiding, just because they're different.

That would be actually, I think all of heaven would just be leaning over the rails to watch that. So we think of these big things. Gestures, but it's not as big as going across the street. Yeah, let's go with a bigger one, a bigger one, the more difficult one, which is to just engage the person you work with that's actually still on the way. And just come up with the least creepy explanation. Maybe they're insecure too. Maybe they got their feelings.

Maybe they were terribly wounded. What's the difference between engaging people and engaging them too long where it's not working for you or for your mission? And do you stop talking to people after a while if they keep coming at you or if they keep doing things that you don't agree with? Are you becoming best friends with these people that you're not appreciating their actions or their words? I think there's some people in my life and in yours that are just toxic.

They're actually just not good for you. And so there's some people that are actually probably worth keeping a little bit of distance from. You know, at Disneyland, they replant the trees about every 10 years. Otherwise, they'd have trunks that are five feet around, right? Because it's 60 years old. And so sometimes replanting your tree just a little bit further away from someone else's, lets both trees grow better. Sometimes you just need a little bit of a room. But you don't need to cut down somebody else's tree. You can just say, what I do, you know, around your bed on your last day here on earth and mine, there's room for about eight people,

nine if they're thin. And I've just figured out who my eight people are. I sent them all a text message. Literally, I sent them a message. You're one of the eight. And they'll text back like, what's that mean? Don't worry about it. So what if you figure out who your eight people are?

Who do you want around your bed on your last day here? And what if you start surrounding your life with them right now? And if you don't have eight, go get six. Do you know five fruit trees is an orchard, right? But four fruit trees is just a bunch of fruit trees, but five is an orchard. I always wondered who came up with that. Probably some lawyer who had five fruit trees and needed a tax break. But go get an orchard full of friends. If you don't have like five, go get one friend. And there's this place, God made Starbucks so people could have like conversations. If you can get off your computer

and phone. Totally. Just do that. Just be like, this is one of the 12. Find a person. And then I'm just, every person I meet, you included, I'm interviewing for the job of being one of my eight. Right. And just people that you engage to say like, the reason why you do your podcast, you know why you're doing what you're doing. And so if you say, I'm always looking for my eight, and your eight are going to change. Have your eight changed over time? Absolutely. Yeah, you don't have to send them another text message and say, you're off the island.

Right. Yeah, just say, like, just say. It's evolving. Has yours changed? Totally. Oh, yeah, all the time. Over the last year? Oh, yeah, as I've changed.

I think that's how it's supposed to be. Over the last year? Oh, yeah, as I've changed. I think that's how it's supposed to be. But you don't have this send-off party by, like, making some really untoward comment of somebody. Just say they've evolved. They're moving in a beautiful, different direction. I don't know if it's a better direction.

It's just a different one. How do you deal with your saving lives, building schools, making an impact in the world, you know, all the profits to your last book went to charity. All this stuff is happening. You're spreading love constantly online, but you still get haters. Yeah. How do you deal with it when you are doing the best you can to spread love, the thing we all want the most,

and yet people, in general, people are going to attack us for anything we do? Yeah, I just am, like, I think very accurately assuming I got a lot to learn. Because if that is emoting from somebody, then maybe there's something I got to learn in that. And so, yeah, I'm not trying to figure out what they need to change.

I'm like, is there anything? But I don't feel manipulated by that. I just, like, feel like I'm your student. I'm the student of the people that are surrounding you. And you have a bunch of people. I'm not blowing smoke at you. You just have a lot of kind people that surround you. I'm trying to surround myself with kind people,

but I'm not trying to insulate myself from people that are more difficult. And I think that's that quarter of a twist. But I don't need to engage them. You won't see me engaging people online. I'm not going to engage them in an argument. No, I just wish them well on their adventure and assume that they're making big impacts in people's lives and they're passionate, obviously. And so you can just be a little bit more Teflon about that. And it isn't indifferent. It's actually the opposite of indifference. And so

you're so engaged in trying to be the next version of you that can learn something, you become their student and say, is there something I can learn from this? And once you've learned on, then get back to the important work of True North. Right, right. You said this, we'll be known for our opinions but remembered for our love. How does that work? Oh, yeah.

Well, think of every eulogy that you've done where somebody says these words about somebody. Oh, there's a guy. His name is Greg Murtha. And Greg, I was back on the East Coast and sitting with somebody, and they had their cell phone out, and they showed me the text message. It says, do you know who Bob Goff is? And I'm sitting next to him. I go, oh, that's awesome. Well, he told me about this guy, Greg, and Greg had gotten cancer and he'd been through 100 rounds of chemotherapy. He'd been in this phenomenon business and all this stuff, but he's literally on his deathbed. And so my friend texts back to him and said, Bob's sitting

right next to me. And 30 seconds later, there's another text message and says, will you ask Bob if he'll write the foreword to my book? And I mean, there's only one answer to that. I mean, if you say no, you go straight to hell. You don't even die. You're just eternity separated from God. So I said, you know, obviously I would. And the next day he went to dance with Jesus for eternity. And I'd only met Greg one time. So I spent the next month talking to all his friends and tell me about Greg. And you know what they talked about? His love.

So this idea of being like known for our opinions, but remembered for our love. Greg's just a guy who's remembered for being loving people like a linebacker. He would just like just square off. A loving linebacker. Just full contact. Knock you down with love. Yeah, totally. So that's how I'd want to be remembered. I'd want to be remembered. Man, three days after I stopped practicing law, everybody forgot I practiced law. They're like, whatever. But you get to decide what you want to be remembered for and you get to do that. And if you're living a noteworthy life, again, engaged, not noteworthy like trying to grab headlines, but just so trigger locked on what's true north for

you and engage. If faith is a big deal for you, man, just don't put your toe in the water, grab your knees and do a cannonball. If business is your thing, like whatever. If dolphins are your thing, like get in the tank. But like whatever it is, just engage it. And so I figured out my true north. I am headed towards that with everything I've got. Yeah. And it means engaging some difficult people along the way. And you were talking before about engaging with witchcraft people. Is that right? Well, yeah. In Uganda, I'm serving as the consul for Uganda. Isn't that crazy? I'm not the U.S. guy to Uganda. I'm the Ugandan guy to the U.S. Wow. I walk into embassies like, are you the

Ugandan guy? But I've been representing them, I think, for almost a decade, maybe more. And so one of the things that has plagued that country is, and not just Uganda but other countries as well, is these witch doctors will engage in human sacrifice of little children. But in the history of Uganda, nobody had ever taken on a witch doctor because they were afraid of these guys. And part of the problem is there's always a victim, but they usually don't survive. And then they're scared of the bad guy.

So there was an attack, and the little boy survived. And I asked if we could try Uganda's first case. And we did. And the word of this conviction spread to 41 million people. It was like, you touch a kid, it's over. So I like this idea, there's no love without justice, but no justice without love. And so I think it's both and. I'm a pretty upbeat guy, but I know where True North is. And when it comes to doing these things to these kids, I'm not going to just stand by and watch and take some notes.

So you're the attorney on this case. Yeah, isn't that crazy? In Uganda. In Uganda. Wow. And so one of the things that happened though is after the conviction, I started thinking about all these witch doctors and started deciding to engage them. So I send word on the Bush radio that the consul general for Uganda is here and I command every witch doctor to come and meet with me. And they came, I've met with over a thousand and they are creepy dudes. They make little dolls that look like me and stick.

No way. No, no. There's some pretty creepy dudes. But instead of just telling them, you know, if you do these things, this is what's going to happen to them. What if you do both? Let them know what the law is. Let them know that if you touch a little kid, you will never be seen again. But what if we teach him how to read and write? And so we have a witch doctor school and we teach him how to read and write. And the only books they have in witch doctor school are the Bible and Love Does. Wow. That's great. And so there's something awesome about that. We have some pretty funky graduations. But like there's some.

You go to the graduations? Oh, yeah. Every single one. Yeah. It's pretty creepy. But there's something beautiful because I know these guys by name. And I let them know. I let them know, man, you touch a kid, it's over.

What if you lead your life in a way that lets you lead your life? And there's something beautiful that's happened. They've given it a quarter of a twist and they've stopped sacrificing children. It's really been beautiful. I think the power of love unleashed in your neighborhood, with your friends, in your office, with people far away, with people close, people you're married to that you're dating, just to be an authentic version of that. And I know it's scary. I've spent my whole life avoiding the people Jesus spent his whole life engaging. You know why? Because I didn't want to get any on me. And I think the simple message that love gives is to get it on you. Like,

just get some on you. You want to turn into love, you got to get some on you. And so in a strange way, some of these people that have creeped me out the most have been the ones that have informed my faith the most. Because I'm just realizing there's a ropes course, probably a hundred feet in the air. And I take these witch doctors up there and they're in harnesses and all that. I'll unclip them and I'll give them a push. They'll say, stop pushing me. I'm like, stop scaring people because this is how everybody feels around you. Like if you stop scaring them, I'll stop pushing you. But instead of being a guy

that's pointing a bony finger at them, I've engaged them a lot and teach them how to read and write. And there's something about that to find your way. And that isn't for everyone, but find your thing, whatever that is, Find your people. Find the people that have caused you the most difficulty. It might take staring at them for a little while, but just shuffle forward. And I just think that idea of God just delights when we begin these small beginnings, right? You just move a little. It's one conversation.

It's one like scary, vulnerable moment to say, you know what? What happened is that was just me being super insecure right there. So can we have like a do-over on that? And the people that love you the most, they'll go like, you got your do-over. Wow.

What's the biggest lesson you learned from the witch doctors? I think the power of transformation in people's lives, that the power of love, whether that is your faith that causes you to change, that's been my experience, whether for some of these witch doctors, the realization that they're accepted by people,

that that will be where people change, man. People grow where they're loved, not just where they're planted, where they're loved. And so, man, grow love by the acre. And just not this squishy kind of love, but active, engage, roll up your sleeve, let's go do this thing. Try the case, make the trip. Mogadishu is a pretty scary place. Rounding up, there's a total of zero people that look like me in Mogadishu, but they won't teach little girls how to read and write because they're girls. And there's no way

we're just going to be watching that. But find your thing. That's not more noble. That's actually probably tied for first and tied for last in God's mind with engaging the person that you work with, that person that you pass by. We had this mailman. His name is Art, and he's just horrible at being a mailman. I hate to malign him on a national audience, but he's just bad at it. He's been our mailman for 20 years.

He just can't get the mail to the right people. Like, look, my credit cards go over there. Somebody's getting audited. I get their envelope. I have to walk it over. I'm like, stinks to be you. Oh, man. Well, Art finally, after 20 long years, said he was going to retire. I'm like, praise the Lord. And so we decide, we have a parade on our block. We think this idea of loving your neighbor isn't a metaphor for something else. We just really think it means to love your neighbor. So we've been having this parade for 23 years. Well, our block is eight houses long.

And we get together in the cul-de-sac and we pick one of the little ladies to be the queen. And we have a grand marshal. We made Art the grand marshal. Ah, that's cool. And we put him in the back of a convertible. We put a thousand envelopes in there. We said, just Art, just do what you do every day.

Just throw all the envelopes everywhere. 800 people turned out to let Art know just how much he was loved. And you know what he did a week later? He called me up and he said, Bob, he was so touched by this outpouring of love. He said, Bob, I'm coming out of retirement. I'm like, no! For his back. Yeah Or he's back. Yeah, but he's back. And nobody's getting the mail. But that's why we all know each other.

But there's something beautiful that happened. So he's brought you together even closer. Bingo. So just the things that you've experienced in your life, what I've experienced by writing books is that the best chapter titles come later. So think back in high school, like when you felt rejected. That's what I would title when Paula said no to the prom. I would have put the title of that chapter rejected. But actually, many years later, I've realized that was actually release. A time that you felt like you were prevented from something, man, give that a little while and you realize you were actually protected. Maybe something that happened when

you feel like the title for that is I'm out. If you give it a little while, you'll give it a better title and it's like I'm back. And so maybe pausing a little bit before you name other people, like before you figure out who they are, before you give them a name, just pause and just say like, man, they're just dealing with their stuff too. And it's hard to be patient. I mean, I make coffee nervous. I'm like, I'm pretty amped. But what if you're just a little bit more patient? There was a guy, Paul, and he was talking to his friends and he said, man, you know what I'm working on is immense patience. And so those are the words. I'm not big on tattoos, but if I was going to get one, that would be it right across

my face. Like just immense patience for me. What do you lack patience in? Oh, earth. Like, come on, I like to eat sushi just because they don't have to cook it. I don't even like sushi. But I'm just trying to be like immensely patient. So when something happens, traffic, a delay, the book doesn't get there on time, the whatever, just immense patient.

That would be really awesome if on my last day here, people said, you know, that thing about Bob, that guy was immensely patient. That would not be said of me yet. Hey, your future self. I know who I'm aiming for. I know where True North is. So figure out who that is and aim towards that every day. Say, all right, new Bob. This guy's going to be immensely patient. It's going to take some work. You think if you had the tattoo on the cross your forehead that you would actually be more patient? No, I'd be avoided like Immensely avoided be like who's the guy with the tat? Like the woman with the snake. Yes, exactly. What's the least creepiest explanation? I guess he wants to be patient exactly Now you kind of like took off on social media. You built this massive

following pretty quickly, it seemed like. You sold tons of copies of your last book. How did you transition from just being this like lawyer guy to building this audience? Yeah, I don't know. How did it even happen? Well, what I do each day is I have this very loud time, not a quiet time. And then I'll take what I was thinking about the day before. To get ideas. Yeah, yeah, to get ideas. And then I'll check it out, you know, because faith guides the things that I'm doing.

I'll go to all the resources I've got, and I'll take an idea and I'll say, I don't want it to just sound right. I want it to actually be true. You don't want it to rhyme. Yeah, yeah, it can't rhyme. And to say, once I know it's true, then I'll say it. Any tweet you see, any book I read, you're not going to see any Bible verses

in any book I ever write. You want a Bible verse, read the Bible. It's full of them. But what I'll do is I'll make sure whatever I'm saying is actually true before I say it. Feeling the weight of that, I think you have a responsibility that you labor under very well, which is just to just say true things. And I want to do that too. And again, I think there's a place right now and there are many true voices out there

among the smallest of them. But if we had people that were just intent on saying, what's true north on this thing and not swinging at every pitch. Just be like, yeah. It's not that it's an important issue. It's just, I got some gals in Somalia that we're trying to take care of

and that's not a more important issue. It's just a different one. It's your issue. Yeah, it's just a different one. And so that's why I think all together we make one really well-adjusted person. Like parts of the body, right? So we just were all

together and just stay in your lane. Do what you do really well, but with a focus towards who you're becoming, what's going to last, not just what's going to work, what's true, not just what's loud. Like those things, maybe use that to filter before you say something, a prudent pause to ask, is my life working for you? If I said that sharp thing, would it be working for me or would that just be me trying to get validation by saying a sharp word? Because, again, I win arguments, but I'm not trying to win arguments. I'm not trying to be right. I'm trying to be a little bit more like Jesus was.

And he just was kind and compassionate. He engaged people with love. And he's like, show them. Peter, this guy that they said, you know, denies him three times. He didn't say, you're such a wuss. He said, you're a rock. And Peter turned into one, right? That whole idea of speaking into people.

I've got this mirror. I carry it around. When my kids are growing up, I get the mirror out. They'd be like, Dad, not the mirror. I'm like, get counseling later. And I'd hold up this mirror to them, and I would say to my daughter, Lindsay, she's like Mary Poppins with grenades. She's just fearless and courageous and kind.

And I'd hold it up to her. I mean, you're a woman of virtue. And I'd tell her why. And she'll say, you know, that time that you did this. I'll hold it up to my son, Richard, and say, you're a man of valor. And here's why. Remember that time that you. That idea of having the conversation.

I'll just say a word because that's good. That's a great start. But the bobsled race is all the way down the hill, not just the start. So to tell him why he's a man of valor. And when my kids left for college, they didn't take all the teddy bears I won at the start. So to tell him why he's a man of valor. And when my kids left for college, they didn't take all the teddy bears I wanted at the circus. They brought their mirrors. And I bet anything on the fourth day of college, one of their roommates said, what's up with the mirror? And can't you picture them getting that down off the shelf and holding

it up and said, let me tell you about you. I think if we had more people holding up mirrors to other people and just say, let me tell you who you. I think if we had more people holding up mirrors to other people and just say, let me tell you who you turn into, not in a mystical way, just this is what I see in your countenance. I see a kind person. I see an engaged guy. I see somebody who generally wants to love people and learn and care. You could be doing anything. You'd probably be running a small country, but you just decided to do what you're doing. So if we just started seeing people, I see some people today just go,

man, I'm holding up the mirror and I'm like, I just don't get it yet, but I'm waiting. I'm going to hold that mirror up and I'm just right on the edge. I'm like, okay, come on, come on. But I'm just doing that to myself. I'm not working out all my picadillos on social media. That might be a long answer to the question about why there might resonate with some people, because I think- You're speaking the truth.

Maybe some voices that would join in, and there's certainly people I'm learning from all the time on social media. I think social media is just a wonderful place. It could like anything. It has other things. But that's just such a happy place to learn from people. And then even people that are difficult, they're like, wow, I wouldn't have seen that one coming. I could have spun that puzzle piece for a decade and not seen that one. But to just continue to move on.

You don't need to get caught in that eddy. My son Richard, we went down the Nile together. I brought him. We went over this class five rapid. There's no class six. You're just dead. So we go over this class five. He pops out of the raft.

We get stuck in an eddy, and he goes downstream. We didn't find him for 45 minutes. Oh, my gosh. We were looking for him. And he's like alligator. I'm thinking about, what am I going to tell Maria? And we find him hanging from a vine. He just popped out.

And I think that happens with people. Sometimes they get stuck in an Eddie. It can be an Eddie career. It can be an Eddie in some bad relationships can be an eddy in some bad relationships. They need to pick a new eight around. And then just have the courage, if you and I could, and all the people around us, could encourage people to paddle back into the fast-moving waters. Because it feels a little bit safe in the eddy because it feels a little calmer, but you're actually not going anywhere. And if you're actually going to save some people's lives, I think it's just going to be in the faster waters. And you're going to

take a hit. You'll pop out of the boat a time or two. I'm not aiming for that, but if that's the price of admission, I'm in. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What's the biggest lesson you think you still need to master besides patience? Yeah. Patience is what was the first thing that came to mind. But I think this idea of kindness towards people, assuming that their motives are beautiful and elegant, sometimes that's, I think people sometimes will say something and they don't really, they just hadn't caught it in time. So to just come up with a better explanation for what they might be,

or an explanation that's as simple as their word just got ahead of them. Yeah. So that kind of kindness, I've experienced. Have you been around people that are that way? Of course. They're just more generous with not only their finances, but with their thoughts towards people. Yeah, that's what I'm working on.

I could work on that too, probably. Yeah, yeah. And you get a chance every day. It's a new day. Another dozen people, another conversation. Tell me about this book. Why did you write this? Everybody always.

I was actually five years late. You know, you sign something up with a publisher. I know you have. You sign it up and it has a due date. But I just didn't have anything to say. I actually wrote the thing. This is so nuts. So I finally finished writing this book and visiting a friend of mine that's up in San Francisco. He's this big mega church pastor. And five or six years ago, he's moved to San Francisco to work with some really difficult people. Like just, you know,

they're in a really rough part of town. So I went up there. I get rid of a van at Avis, and I drive up to where these guys are hanging out. Well, I'm inside this house, and when I go out to check on something, every window of the van is broken. They've stolen everything. My laptop is gone. It had the book on it, and it wasn't backed up.

Oh, man. Who needs iCloud? It's like a nickel a year. It's like a nickel a year. So I had to start all over again. Oh, no. Of 65,000 words. But you know what?

Because I'm new, Bob, I wrote a different book. Yeah, it was a better book. It was more accurate. It's new, Bob. And so what had happened then is things started getting a little wonky in our society. Oh, right, right. More difficult people. Oh, more difficult people. I'm like, I got a book in me. But hopefully, kinder Bob wrote it to just say, how can we become love in a world full of setbacks and difficult people? Because I've had

a couple of setbacks. How about you? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Because it's great. It's easy to love God when everything's going my way. But what happens when what I want doesn't happen? What if there's a setback? I built a lodge up in Canada and it burned to the ground because somebody made a mistake. So what am I going to do then? I just got back to work. And so I'm not going to stay in the eddy. I'm going to paddle back into the fast-moving waters. And so hopefully this book would encourage some people

that have encountered some difficult people. I think that would be earth. To engage them with love. And it's just a bunch of stories. That's what Jesus did. He never spoke to anybody without telling them a story. I think I know why. Because if people give you facts, I'm like, I can't get my mind around it.

I'll forget them just as fast as I tell them. But a good story, I'll remember that. I'll remember you as a young guy, eight years old, being really insecure because you painted that picture. But then somehow you turned the corner and decided, I think whether it was conscious or not, you said, I'm actually going to turn this thing into love. I'm going to turn that insecurity into love and engagement.

And so as you engage people and find them and see what they did, I'm going to tell you one last thing. There's a guy, his name is Lex, and he lost his sight when he was eight years old. But by the time he got to college, he figured out he could run like the wind. And so Lex went out for the track team. Blind?

Blind. But you know what he did? He had a buddy that ran in front of him and called his name. Isn't that beautiful? And he just ran towards a voice he could trust. Well, he had to pick an event, and you know the event he picked?

The long jump. Now, that's just a bad idea. You run down a two and a half foot wide path for 110 feet six inches. You have to hit a six inch board. Jump off a board you can't see. Throw your body into the air as far as you can go into a sandpit. But you know what he's got? He's got a friend. And his friend stands at the edge of the sandpit and claps his hands and calls

his name. And Lex just runs towards a voice he can trust. Isn't that beautiful? Well, he was at the World Games trying to qualify for the Olympics. He got back to the end of the track. His friend went to the edge of the sandpit, started calling his name. Lex starts running towards it. And when he jumps, he's crooked. And he misses the sandpit entirely. And he crashes and burns on the concrete. If it was me, I'd be out.

I'd be like, I'm blind. I jump big. I hit hard. I'm out. But Lex has a friend. And his friend got him a new uniform because he was mooning everybody. And he walked him down 110 feet, 6 inches, went right back to the edge of the sand pit, called his name. He did the biggest jump of his life, won the entire meet.

And I want to run towards voices I can trust. And I think what the world is looking for is a couple voices that they can trust. I think you have a following here because yours is a voice people can trust. I think what we can do, whatever our station, is just become a voice we can trust in our neighborhood, in our community, with our family, with our friends. Just be a trustworthy voice. And you don't have to be the loudest voice, the truest voice. That's beautiful. Yeah.

A couple of final questions for you. I want to make sure everyone gets this book. It's called Everybody Always Becoming Love in a World Full of Setbacks and Difficult People. It's out right now, so you guys can get it online or in bookstores everywhere. This is called The Three three truths, this question. And I ask everyone at the end. You've achieved a lot in your life already, and you're making a massive impact in the world. You've written some books.

You speak everywhere. And imagine you reach 10, 11, 12, Bob, whatever number you want to reach. You make it. And you get to choose the final day for you. You've gone. You've got beautiful grandkids. You've had the life you want to reach, you make it. And you get to choose the final day for you. You've gone, you've got beautiful grandkids, you've had the life you want. Everything you wanted to create, you've done it. But for whatever reason, you have to take everything with you, all the works you've created, all your messages, your books, everything that come with you when it's your last day. So there's nothing else to be remembered by you physically or online or

whatever is in the future. But you have a piece of paper and you've got your eight around you and they ask you to write down on this piece of paper three things you know to be true about your experiences in life. The things that you would leave behind in these three lessons and that's all that they would be able to have to share the world to remember you by. These three truths. What would you say are yours? Yeah, what a great question. I would say the first belief and truth that I have is that I'm loved,

that I'm beloved by God. I would want people to know that, that they're just, whatever it is that happens, whatever it happens, you are beloved. The second thing I would want people to know is that it'll probably work. I want people to just, that thing that they're just like hesitating, or go like, oh, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. It'll probably work. And the third thing I'd say is to live on the edge of yikes.

You know that yikes moment where you just look, yikes. Just like live right there. Make that your resting position on the edge of yikes moment where you just look? Yikes. Just like live right there. Make that your resting position on the edge of yikes. Because comfortable people don't need their faith. Comfortable people don't need other people. People who are living on the edge of yikes, people that are desperate in their faith, desperate in their relationships,

in the most beautiful ways, actually engage life and engage the world. Wow, those are great. Yeah. Well, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Bob, for being an incredible grandfather because I'm already seeing the future happening.

And I already know you're going to be the best grandfather that anyone would ever have. So I'm excited to see that come to fruition for you hopefully in the next nine to ten months yes only also acknowledge you for constantly taking those quarter turns or those one degree turns in your life and not just sticking to what you've always been good at and building a business and a law firm and staying in it because you were successful but seeing what else is available for your life and other yikes moments for you. And I think you're setting a great example

of what's possible for all of us. So I really acknowledge your humility, your patience, and your love. And I appreciate it, yeah. Final question, make sure you guys get the book. Everybody always follow you on social media, at Bob Goff, is it? Yeah, that's it. Everywhere everywhere at Bob Goff, right?

Yeah. Okay. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness? Oh, somebody who knows what love is. When my daughter was in high school and, you know, it's time to have people ask her to the prom. I want her to be a nun, but she waved off. I said, you know, when these guys ask you to the prom, ask them what their definition of love is. And if they tell you, it's like, you know, they're guys, so they won't

know. So send them home. And when they figure out what love is, come back and ask you to the prom. And if they say it's like butterflies, like you can get that from bad pizza. But love is sacrifice and commitment. And so people that I've found that are going to change the world are people that know what love is, and they know it isn't just this rush of feelings, but it's sacrifice and commitment. And it's that edge of yikes. It's a quarter turn. It's all the things we've been talking about. You show me somebody who knows what love is, I'll show you somebody who's going to change the world. Wow. Thanks, man. Thanks a million. Appreciate it. thanks man thanks a million appreciate it there you have it my friends i hope you feel more love today more loving and i hope you spread more love to those around you especially to those that you feel like maybe you don't connect with

that well or maybe someone who has a different opinion or maybe you feel like someone who's wronged you lately how can you at least spread love internally so that they don't affect you, so that they don't hold you back? And maybe you can start to listen to them in a different way or take it on a different approach in the way that Bob has talked about it. I loved his message.

I love his approach. And it was such a pleasure connecting with him. If you enjoyed this, make sure to share this with your friends, lewishouse.com slash 622. Lots of tweetables and shareables out there. So you can head back to the show notes again, lewishouse.com slash 622 to get all those quotes that are up there for you. You can just click and share them out to your friends on the show notes. You can watch the full video interview as well. Check out his new book. Again, Everybody Always, Becoming

Love in a World Full of Setbacks and Difficult People. It's a powerful, powerful message and something I get to personally continue to work on pretty much every day of my life. I'm not sure about you guys, but I know I get to work on that for sure. Again, we were born in love and were meant to be love and give love. And Thomas Merton said, our job is to love others without stopping, to inquire whether or not they are worthy. I love you very much. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Great. Bye.