The School of Greatness - 656 Understanding Human Psychology from the Masters

Episode Date: June 20, 2018

“When people know their tendencies, they see themselves more clearly” - Gretchen Rubin No matter what business you are in, psychology is something you shouldn’t overlook. It’s not just something you should know in order to land the next client, or how to better build your team, but also to help you grow. You need to understand yourself to know what obstacles you need to overcome. When you understand your own psychology, you open a whole new world of possibilities. Getting to know your personality type means you’ll know what to adjust when you meet someone else. It also means you’ll know what to look out for when someone is trying to manipulate you. In every way, knowing psychology can be important to help you achieve the greatness you want. That’s why I put together this new mashup with the bests: Scott Barry Kaufman, Chris Lee, Gretchen Rubin, John Danner and Chris Kuenne In this episode of The School of Greatness, you’ll get a solid look as to various personality types that exist. You’ll also learn about the tendencies we all have and how to turn them into a strength. Each of my guests also give real world examples on how you can use the information provided in this episode. I hand picked the best of the best information from these episodes because I want to see you get out there, use this knowledge, and succeed. Anyone listening to this episode will take away something that they didn’t know before -- I learned new things re-listening to these clips! Get ready to better understand psychology, on Episode 656. Some Questions I Ask: What is IQ and is it effective? (6:48) What are the 4 personality types? (10:46) If I’m a controller, how would you speak my language to convince me to buy something? (14:40) If you’re selling a car, how would you approach these personality types? (27:14) What’s the main thing understanding your tendencies does for you? (30:27) Are we born with these tendencies? (35:23) Can someone be all of the personality types? (39:26) In This Episode You Will Learn: The multiple paths to greatness (5:02) How testing in the school system can cause people to fall through the cracks (8:47) What personality types a leader should have (10:26) What a controller is (11:28) The opposite personality of a controller (16:23) Exactly what a promoter is (20:51) How to spot an analyzer (24:26) How you can understand yourself and others better (30:07) The different types of tendencies (31:12) How entrepreneurs build teams (35:48) John and Chris’s 4 personality types (36:03) Plus much, much more

This is episode number 656, Understanding Human Psychology. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment. Ralph Waldo Emerson. I am pumped because every single week we bring you insights from the greatest minds in the world from the greatest teachers from the greatest human beings

to help you discover what it is you were born to do on this earth how to overcome the greatest challenges in your life and how to accelerate your growth to achieve your dreams faster than you could ever imagine. And this episode is a mashup of some of the best wisdom I've heard on understanding your own personality and core strengths so that you can do the work that suits you best, so that you can live the life that serves you and humanity the best. We've got clips today from the great psychologist, Scott Barry Kaufman. Yes, he is a master. We've got it from Chris Lee, transformational coach of 30 plus years, from John Danner and Chris Keeney,

and the incredible Gretchen Rubin. We've got these masters in here who are going to share some wisdom, some nuggets, and talk about how to really understand human psychology to optimize connection, understanding yourself, why we do the things we do, and how you can improve your own life in this process. This is a powerful one, guys. Some of you haven't heard these golden nuggets before, so I wanted to make sure we bring them to the forefront so you can hear them. If you enjoy this, make sure to share it with your friends, lewishouse.com slash 656. This will be a powerful one for you to truly understand human psychology. And I want to give a big thank you and shout out

to the fan of the week. This is from Matt Holliday, who said, this is a podcast for all people, all ages, colors, all genders, rich or poor, this podcast is for you. I have to say this podcast is especially for people who are in a growth period in their lives and are looking for that extra thing that is going to take that growth to the max. There is always at least one quote in every episode that just gives me the chills and allows me to look at my life a little bit differently. This causes me to grow little by little each episode. Tune in if you are a human that is wanting to make some positive changes in your life and the lives around you. So Matt Holliday, thank you for that warm review. I

appreciate it. And you are the fan of the week, my friend. If you guys have not left a review yet, we've got over 3,000 plus five-star reviews. You can just open up your podcast app and leave a review right there. We'd love that very much. And get your chance to be shouted out as the fan of the week. All right, guys, I'm excited to dive into this one again. Powerful episode all about understanding human psychology. Let me know what you think about this. Take a screenshot right now and tag me on your Instagram story, lewishouse.com slash 656 to let your friends know.

Without further ado, let's dive into understanding human psychology. Understanding Human Psychology. Asking what is the key is the best way to develop greatness. I think the best way is to recognize there are multiple paths to greatness. And that's kind of one of the big points I wanted to make in that book is that every person kind of needs to find out for themselves what their unique value is in this world and what unique package of personal characteristics, including their motivations, their cognitive abilities, like are you a very verbal person? Are you not? Are you a visual spatial person? And figuring out what kind of environments and niches would be best for you.

But what I've discovered in looking at people who really reach those highest levels, they didn't necessarily have all those stereotypical markers that we use to predict potential when you're young. This includes people I studied. I wrote this article recently about what predicts MBA success, for instance. And people would be surprised to know that so many of the things that talent scouts go through and do are just not predicting greatness whatsoever within those sports domains. Researchers looked at this, you know, the NBA combined. You know how they do this. They have all these prospective NBA players like test for their agility, test for their height, you know, their general athletic. Yeah, the combine.

So it finds out that's completely non-predictive of them. It's like a really worthless thing. It shows their athleticism, but it doesn't show their teamwork, their leadership, their emotional intelligence, their ability to bounce back, all those things, right? Exactly. Mental toughness, all the things that really are the most important things for differentiating those at the very top versus those that aren't. Yeah, that's right. Right. Well, everyone talks about, at least when I was growing up in Yeah, that's right. Right. Well, you know, everyone talks about,

at least when I was growing up in school, everyone was talking about IQ and can you talk about what is IQ just so people that don't know, what does it stand for? What's its purpose? And is it even effective? Cause it kind of sounds a little bit about what you just talked about. Yeah. So if we could fast forward, like 50, uh, 10 years from now and have this conversation, I would say IQ stands for imagination quotient because that's what I'm working towards in my own. Nice. Yeah, that's like what the imagination is trying to do is come up with a whole new test. But we live right now in 2014. The IQ, everyone knows intelligence quotient. It's supposed to be this measure of your general cognitive ability.

Think of it just like you go and you do the physical fitness tests. You have to run with the eraser back and forth or you have to do the chin press up or run 500 meters, et cetera, et cetera. And you can take an average of all those physical fitness tests that most of us had to take in high school. And I bet you kicked ass on that, right? I do pretty well. Yeah, you did pretty well. Yeah, it's the physical fitness. And you get like a rough idea of someone's general physical fitness. By the way, I went to high school with Kobe Bryant and I did better with him on the eraser

one. I got the all-in. I won the thing for the show. That's like my one thing. You won the thing, yeah. No, within that sports domain. He kicks my ass on everything else. That's. Your one thing, yeah. No, within that sports domain. It kicks my ass and everything else.

That's hilarious. But anyway, yeah. So you get like this general rough index. And so the same kind of logic is used with IQ tests is that we make people like, maybe like, what's your vocabulary? What's your, you know, mentally rotate objects in your mind? Put these blocks together or what's pattern comes next. And then you just take the average and that's supposed to index your general intellectual functioning. But as you know, with general physical fitness as well, is that some of the greatest athletes have a lot of, they've

developed very, very specific adaptations to that specific sport that make them stand out. It's not the general fitness that necessarily matters the most, but that specific skill set and expertise that you've mastered. Sure. So do you think it's effective then or is it pretty much worthless? I don't. So I'm not anti-Ikea. I'm not like trying to say they're worthless.

Right. But I think the way that they are used in the school system to hinder opportunity, we are effectively letting way too many students fall between the cracks. I can give you so many examples. Worrying disabilities, kids with dyslexia, schizophrenia, behavioral disorders, etc.

There's so many multitude of reasons that could cause someone to do poorly in a little testing session with a psychologist. We have to focus and a psychologist saying what's the one correct answer you know and all these conditions they're so anxiety provoking there's so many reasons why you could score low in this kind of environment and then the school concludes oh well this student is not doing well in school because of their intelligence what i've been trying to tell i'm not trying to say that those tests are useless

or they're not important information, but I'm actually trying to, I would really like to change, like, what is the first thing that we think of when a student is low achieving? And it's not, let's pull out the IQ better and see if they're stupid, if that explains it. Instead, I want to look at so many other factors first,

like engagement, effort, environmental support, family background. Like what are the students' priorities? And, you know, like is the student living in an environment where everyone's getting killed all around them? You know, like that seems surviving seems to be more important than doing well on an IQ test, you know, for that person.

There's just so many like people, I think educators, lots of them have such a misguided view of how we realize potential and what those tests actually measure. that have such a misguided view of how we realize potential and what those tests actually measure. Ideally, a leader has access to all four personality types. So if I know that my audience is one personality type mostly, that I get to speak in a way that they understand and then bring them the message

because everybody listens in a different way. And it just allows me to be more effective. Okay, cool. So let's go into it. What are the four personality types? Okay, so let's talk one by one because each one is complex. So the first personality style,

and by the way, you may, as you listen to this, you may feel that you fit into one. It's possible you fit into two. It's possible that you have a little more of one than the other, a little less of the other than this one. And also, it could also be depending on the circumstance. For example, I could be a personality type in bed. Or I could be a personality type at work. Or I could be a personality type at work.

Sure. Or I could be a different personality type socially. But there's generally a home base. Right. Okay. So the first personality type I want to talk about is the controller. What's the controller? The controller is the person that always wants to be right.

The controller is the person that likes to be in control of himself. So he's in control, but he wants to be in control of everyone around him. So can you give me some examples of that? Yeah, it's somebody that likes to be the source of all the ideas. So even if it's your idea, they thought of it. Really? A controller is somebody that is,

they're usually a leader. They're very powerful. They're powerful with their conviction. They got a lot of confidence and they think they could get it done better than anybody else. So a controller, the gift of a controller is that they make things happen.

These are the movers, the shakers, the people that do whatever it takes. And the gift of a controller is that they make things happen. These are the movers, the shakers, the people that do whatever it takes. And the gift of the controller is that a controller is confident, a controller is a leader, they take initiative. Make decisions. They make decisions. They're all about the result. Yeah. Now- Goal oriented. Completely goal-oriented, results-oriented. Right. So the downside of a controller is that they appear insensitive. They appear mean. They don't listen. They like to be right. Therefore, everyone around them is wrong.

Right. Ring a bell, people. So it's that boss that won't listen to feedback, won't listen to ideas. Can't take criticism. Doesn't take criticism. It's that person that likes to be right. And they don't listen. As a matter of fact, before they'll ask a question, but they'll answer it. So that's the person that is inflexible. So if they have a plan to go to dinner and they want to go to Chinese food, that's it. It's Chinese food, period.

You want to go with them, it's got to be Chinese. If you say, I want to eat Thai food, forget it. You're eating alone. And a controller is, the good news about a controller is that they make things happen. They're powerful. They take initiative and they usually have results. The downside is the biggest cost or the biggest price is relationships.

Because who wants to be around somebody who doesn't listen and who's always right? And so if you're a controller and if you identify with that, well, obviously you need to work on your social skills, your relationship skills, your listening skills, et cetera, et cetera. And as I described some of the other personality types, you'll know what you'll need to work on as well. So if you have a controller and you're addressing a controller in terms of managing them or you want to convince them to do something, you need to speak their language. So if someone's always right, say you're trying to sell me something

or you're trying to get me to do something that maybe I'm not convinced I'm doing or buying yet and you want to speak my language, say I'm the controller and I like it my way, a certain way, like I have something in my mind that it's got to it my way, a certain way, like I have something in my mind that it's got to be that way, how would you speak to me

to convert me into buying or coming along a trip or whatever? Or investing in your company or whatever. Yeah, so first of all, I got to be confident. If I show up wishy-washy or wimpy or unsure, it's over. Then he's not going to trust you. He or she is not going to trust you.

No, because he's going to look at you like you're full of it. And he knows more than you, and he's right. He always knows more than you. So you've got to be confident. You've got to be clear. You've got to show up dressed in a formal way, because controllers are formal. They're formal in their dress, and they're dominant.

So they're dominant, and they're formal. So they're dominant and they're formal. So you got to show up formal and you got to show up in a, not necessarily over-domineering, but you got to show up that you're powerful too. So you got to match their energy. So mirroring them. Yeah, you got to match their energy. And to convince a controller,

you got to make everything their idea. So you got to turn the thing into, well, you need to agree with them. And as you're agreeing, you're inputting whatever it is you want them to do. Once you have their trust, once you have their attention, then you could convey your message. So almost stroke their ego in a sense. Stroke their ego, but it's- Without being stroking it, but you know. Yeah, yeah.

No, you need to connect with them at their level. Yeah. You know, powerful people like to be around powerful people. Right. And they're not going to put money into someone that shows up wimpy. Right. Or not sure or unclear. Right.

So a controller is someone who's dominant and somebody who is formal. So you've got to present them in a dominant and formal way. The complete opposite of a controller is the person who's a supporter. And a supporter is somebody who, they're not so concerned about the result. They're more concerned about the feelings. And so they're about feelings. They're about love and acknowledgement and self-worth and respect. And the supporter, the positive thing

about a supporter is that they're loving and they're caring. They're the nurturers. They're the caretakers. They're the people that will give the shirt off their back for other people. They put other people first. They're always focusing on your needs. Giving, giving, giving.

Givers, total givers. The downside of a supporter is that they show up like a doormat. People take advantage of them. People walk all over them. They don't stand up for themselves. They don't stand up for themselves. Their voice doesn't count. And so if you have somebody in your life that's a supporter

and you try to dominate them, then they're just going to shrink. They're going to go into their cave and they're not going to come out. They're going to shut down. They're going to go into their cave and they're not going to come out. They're going to shut down. They're going to feel abused by you. And so if you're a controller and you're in a relationship with a supporter, you've got to access love and care and stroke their heart. In other words, they respond to acknowledgement. They respond to love.

They respond to great job. I'm proud of you. Thank you. That you will inspire a supporter that way and they'll be loyal for life. So if you're a supporter, you got to work on your voice and your courage and your self-confidence and you got to step up.

And if you're a supporter that needs to motivate a controller, then you got to own your power. You got to step up. And if you're a supporter that needs to motivate a controller, then you got to own your power. You got to show up confident. You got to speak up. If you're a supporter, you can't... One of the things that I talked about is how we put ourselves on a box. And we say, well, that's kind of how I am.

And so the idea of these quadrants is not to put yourself on a box. The idea of these quadrants is to identify where you are and to shift. And we have the ability to shift. What does shift mean? It means moving from one space to the other. And if you learn these quadrants and you learn to navigate through these quadrants, you could access the positive gifts of each quadrant, therefore becoming successful.

Right. And the greatest leaders probably have access to, they're probably a little bit of, the positive gifts of each quadrant, therefore becoming successful. Right. And the greatest leaders probably have access to, they're probably a little bit of, they probably have one or two dominant, but then they can always access the other two at any time. Absolutely. I mean, I'll talk about me,

where I operated from before and because of this work, what I do now. Right. So being a supporter, they're feeling oriented. The questions that supporters ask is why, and why is this happening, and they're easygoing, they're informal. So their way of being is casual, easygoing, informal.

They go with the flow. So if the controller goes, we're eating Chinese, or the supporter hates Chinese food, oh, I'll find something I like. It doesn't matter. Very flexible. Super flexible. A supporter, the gift of the supporters, they're the heart of every organization.

They're like the best customer support. Totally supportive. They're great encouraging teams, and they're peacemakers. They avoid conflict. Controllers love conflict. They're like, let's confront this now. Let's see who's right.

Right. And so a supporter needs to shift their way of being. So that's the second quadrant, I would say, in terms of- We've got the controller, supporter. You have the controller and you have the supporter. Which are opposites. Yeah, they're opposites. One is results-oriented.

The other is feelings-oriented. Okay. One is about, okay, what are we creating? And then the supporter is why, which is a non-confrontational question. And a non-results-producing question. They're like, why is this happening? So then we go to the other two quadrants.

And the other quadrant is the promoter. And the promoter is the passionate, life of the party. They're outrageous. They're all about relationships. If you invite them to the party, they're not going to ask, why are you inviting me or what's going to happen? They want to know who's there, who's at the party. And if I like them, I'm there. And if it's fun, I'm in. So promoters are all about being the center of attention. They want to shine and shine bright like a diamond. You know, they want people to remember their name.

And, you know, the gift of the promoters, that a promoter is outrageous and passionate and energetic and talkative. You can imagine what quadrant I fall into. I love, you know, being outrageous and passionate and communicative. Expressive. I love being in relationships. I like doing things with groups of people,

and that's my home base. Like speaking in front of audiences. I love it. You could put me in front of 2,000 people, and I'm feeling it. Yeah. And meanwhile, somebody who's the opposite quadrant, you put them in front of 2,000 people and they freeze.

So a promoter is relationship-driven. A promoter is all about fun and energy, and that's the gift of a promoter. And so if you want to inspire a promoter, you can't be boring or cold. It's got to be exciting. You can't be too soft. You've got to show up exciting

if you're going to sell your idea to a promoter or you want a promoter invest his money his millions of dollars in your business you got to make it exciting got to make it passionate the next big thing yeah this is it this is it yeah and uh you know you can't control him and you can't just be wimpy with him either because a promoter is actually dominant with their energy. They're very dominant. They love their ideas. And at the same time, they're easygoing.

So they're casual in terms of their approach at life. They're pretty casual. You can see them in a suit. You can see them in flip-flops. A lot of directors are that way and you've seen these directors Hollywood directors that make millions of dollars and they look homeless

they're promoters they're full of energy and so a promoter has a lot of energy and the gift of the promoter is the ability to communicate their ability to express their ability to make people feel good the downside is that they have so many ideas, they don't finish any.

The lack of focus maybe or the consistency. They suffer from ADDDDHD permanently. Right. Like when the next shiny object comes up, they're gone. Right. So I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that. All the promoters are like, that's me. And of course, me is one of their favorite words.

So a promoter, if you want to inspire a promoter, you've got to be passionate. You've got to show up alive. You've got to show up with energy. And if you want to coach a promoter, you've got to coach them on how to create specific goals and stick to them. Because one of the downsides of promoters

is that they break their word. They say yes to everything. So they have to break somewhere. Yeah. They probably feel overwhelmed at some point. Completely overwhelmed. I just agreed to everything. Right, and people get mad at them.

And they also show up, since they're so energetic and passionate, they also can show up inauthentic. They can show up like phony, like actors, actresses. There are a lot of people in acting that are promoters. Great energy, but little follow through. And of course, the opposite of the promoter is the analyzer. The analyzer is somebody who is formal in their way of being,

like very strict and structured. But they're easygoing in the sense of that they don't really push through their ideas. So they could ponder on something for a long time. Before they make a decision. Absolutely. So buying a home could take five years. Exactly.

Looking at 100 homes and analyzing every square footage. They'll take a contract and they will dissect it, decipher it. They'll talk to 10 lawyers and then they'll sign. Right. So an analyzer, the gift of the analyzer is detail, structure, organization. Notice what promoters don't have. Their detail, structured, organized analyzers are their word.

So if they say they're going to do something, take it to the bank. But before they give their word, they need to think about it forever. A promoter gives their word and thinks later. Right. And says, sorry, later. Sorry, I thought I could make it.

So an analyzer, what's great about an analyzer is they're great with numbers, they're great with computers, they're great with structure, organization, detail-oriented. The downside of the analyzer is... They can probably run a company well. They can run the structure off of it. Have the spreadsheets. Down to a T.

Yeah. And then the downside is they lack passion. They lack spontaneity. Sometimes you have to put a mirror underneath their nose to see if they're breathing. Because a lot of times they show up dead. Right. There's just no expression.

No life. It's like from the neck down, not connected. Wow. I'm talking about severe case, obviously. Sure. So the gift of the analyzer, of course, is that they are disciplined, they're organized, they're structured, they could set up systems

and they could decipher problems and problem solving. The downside is by the time they get to it, someone else thought of it and did it. So if you have an analyzing client, you need to make sure you got the information because not having your information clear is like being caught with your pants down. It's like, got busted.

So you got to have the facts, the details. If you're selling an analyzer or a car, you got to have every single detail about that car. You got to know your product. You got to know what you're communicating. Same thing if you have an employee that's an analyzer, you got to explain them all the details so that he can finally feel confident and obviously coach him on being passionate and coach him on being spontaneous. So to give an example of that, let's say you're selling a car. If you're selling it to a promoter, you would say, this is the fastest car on the road and you're going to

have the best time. It's going to be the talk of the town, the way it looks. You're going to look good in it. You're going to look amazing in it. You're going to feel good. People are going to want to ride the car with you. You're going to feel confident. You're going to be a superstar. If you're selling to an analyzer, you're saying... You're going to want to ride the car with you. You're going to feel confident. You're going to be a superstar.

Right. And if you're selling to an analyzer, you're saying. You're going to get X amount of miles per gallon. And the warranty is amazing. And the structure of it. And look, it's got lithium. And it's got this. And it's got unbelievable lights and steel.

Yeah, exactly. And then the air conditioner has all these modules. They want to know all the details of the car and how much money they're going to put down and how much they're going to save and how being with you, they're saving money and all the details. And if it's a supporter.

And if it's a supporter. If you're very safe for your family. You're going to be safe and you're going to be able to carry your entire family with you in this minivan because they all have minivans right because they want everybody in it lots of space yeah lots of space groceries the dog that yeah yeah you're going to be able to carry people's luggage and help people take people to the airport carpool exactly so i mean yeah and and if it's a controller they got to feel that how it that Take people to the airport. Carpool. Exactly. So, I mean, yeah. And if it's a controller, they got to feel that it's never going to break down.

It's reliable. It's reliable. You'll be able to get to work on time and you won't miss days of work. It's efficient. Yeah. self-knowledge i mean i really think when people know about the four tendencies they really do um in my vanity i have to believe that they really do see themselves differently and more clearly and then they understand other people better too. And they can see how to set up situations in a way that just allows everybody to, to thrive. Lesson with thrive, but it's also give you like peace of mind and clarity or what is it?

What's the main thing it does for you? Well, part of, well, it's peace of mind, but it's, and it's also compassion. It's like, I understand, like I, like you're struggling with something that's easy for me instead of feeling disdain for you or like being puzzled or frustrated that you're not following through in a way that would make sense to me. I think, Oh, well, somebody else just needs things to be set up in a different way.

So let's set up a thing, set up the situation in a way that is going to allow you to thrive. The fact that I wouldn't need this to be set up this way doesn't really matter. It's like, okay, well you need something different from what I need. like, okay, well, you need something different from what I need.

So, okay, well, let's just figure that out. Yeah, and Christine was going over these tendencies and she is the obliger. Okay, well, that's the biggest tendency. That's the one that most people fit into. So, it makes sense. She said she's like, when there's challenges or rules that other people give her, she like lives up to it. But if she sets her own rules, she's like, eh, I can slide on other people give her she like lives up to it but

if she sets her own rules she's like yeah i can slide on these things that's obliger right yeah she's like that's me that is the definition of obliger and then what am i christine i'm a rebel if somebody asks or tells you to do something you're very likely to resist yeah i'm likely to resist unless i it's like my idea that's See, rebels can do anything they want to do. So should I go through the framework? Let's do it, yes. Okay. So it has to do with how people respond to expectations.

Outer expectations like a work deadline or a request from a friend or inner expectations, your own desire to keep a New Year's resolution, your own desire to start, but write a novel in your free time. So upholders readily meet outer and inner expectations. They meet the work deadline. They keep the New Year's resolution without much fuss. Upholders.

Upholders. Anything that they set for themselves or anyone else asked them to do, they do. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So like- Why do they do that? Hermione Granger is like the most, right now is probably the most famous upholder in the world. Then questioners. Questioners question all expectations. They'll do something if they think it makes sense. So they make everything in the world. Then questioners, questioners, question all expectations. They'll do something if they think it makes sense.

So they make everything an inner expectation. If it meets their standard, they will meet it. No problem. If it fails their standard, they will resist. They hate anything arbitrary, inefficient,

or unjustified. Whenever anybody uses the word arbitrary, it's like a big warning sign that it's a, it's a big signal that they're a questioner. Then obligers. So this is Christine obliger. They readily meet outer expectations, but they struggle to meet inner expectations. Like I had a friend who said, oh, well, when I was on a track team, I never missed track practice. So why can't I go running now? It's like, oh, well, when you had a team and a coach waiting

for you, you had no trouble showing up. But when you're just trying to go running on your own, you struggle. And then finally rebels. Lewis, you're a rebel. So rebels resist all expectations, outer and inner alike. They want to do what they want to do in their own way, in their own time. If you ask or tell them to do something, they're very likely to resist. Typically they don't even want to tell themselves what to do.

Like, like they might not say like, I'm not going to sign up for a 10 a.m. spin class on Saturday. Cause I don't know what I'm going to feel like doing on Saturday. I don't like planning. That's the thing. Spontaneity.

Wait until the last minute. Then I'll plan and commit. No, a lot of spontaneity. Again, there's certain things that people say and you're like, that's a tip off. When anybody's trying to talk about it's important to be spontaneous, I'm like, I bet you're a rebel. Someone who likes to schedule out a year in advance. Who is that? Well, that could be upholders or questioners or obligers, though it's very typical of upholders. But the thing about rebels, and I think you're a great example of this, Lewis, is they can do anything they want to do.

They can do anything they choose to do. You and I are both friends with Chris Guillebeau, a brilliant, great guy. He's a rebel because once they make up their mind, they can do anything. But the fact that you're telling them to do something is not going to make them do it and might make them be like, you know what, you're not the boss of me.

I'm not going to do that right now or I'm not going to do it at all. Right. Because. It's almost reverse psychology. You tell me I can't do something, then I'm going to rebel against you and say, you know what, I'm going to show you.

So in that people can use that. So for instance, let's say you have a rebel in your life and you want to encourage that person to quit smoking. You wouldn't say you have to quit. You wouldn't say you should quit. You shouldn't say the doctor says you have to quit. You shouldn't say you promised me you'd quit. I bet you can't quit though.

Yeah. God, like you, you've been smoking 10 years. You're addicted, man. There's no way you can quit. There's no way you can get big.

Tobacco's got you right where they want you. You're pouring money into their pockets. Yeah. Why even bother? Don't even try. You can't. Don't even try. Yeah.

Keep smoking. Yeah. Yeah. Big tobacco. You're the guy there depending on. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're stuck. You can't. Don't even try. Keep smoking for the rest of your life. Yeah, keep smoking. Yeah. Yeah, big tobacco. You're the guy they're depending on. Yeah, yeah. You're stuck. You can't quit.

Yeah. And then often they'll do something in their own way too, like doing a typical cessation program. They're like, no, I'm going to just go hardcore and quit overnight or I'll have my own system for doing it. So that's that. Come up with a process for them that works. They want to do it their way.

Yeah. So sometimes you could say, well, sometimes this works for some people or some people like this and this, I've seen people have success with this and maybe you want to think about this when you're thinking about what would work for you.

But then it's just whatever you think, you know, whatever works for you. And you know, I've seen you do amazing things in your time. If you make up your mind that you want to quit,

I don't know, maybe you could quit because I've seen you do some pretty powerful stuff when that's what you want. So when you make up your mind, you know, that kind of thing. Are we born with these tendencies or are we, we are? I think we're, I think they're inborn. I think they're part of our, our personality. Or is it triggers of things that happened in our childhood that like make us start resisting and

reacting and then we become rebellious or whatever now? I really think that these are inborn. You're not one at 20 and one at 40. You're not one at work and one at home. They're really hardwired into your personality. What's fascinating about what we found in interviewing thousands of entrepreneurs is that there's not just one way to build a team. And so when we looked at a whole series of factors that make up one's personality or we call it your builder personality, what we discovered is that there are actually four types.

You know, the press wants us to believe that you have to be like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. And in fact, that personality type exists. Right. But it's only one of four. This genius savant type of like. Well, it's that and it's hard driving. And the other key aspect of it is someone who focuses more on the product than the people or the problem or perhaps the mission. In fact, John will tell you a little bit about. So the driver is this.

We like to say he's product or she's product fixated. But quite different from another type that we call. Like obsessed with the product. It's got to be their way. It's perfect. That's when you hear the stories of Steve Jobs punching people or throwing stuff in the fish tank or whatever. It's like, there's air bubbles in there or whatever, right?

Exactly. Exactly. But very different from the explorer. John, I'll tell you a little bit about the explorer. The explorer is really the puzzle solver. The explorer is drawn to the intricacy of some challenge. the puzzle solver. The explorer is drawn to the intricacy of some challenge and almost see the entrepreneurial activity as a way of commercializing this ingenious solution that they've come up with. They have a tendency to shift their curiosity because the next new puzzle may attract them

before they've had an opportunity to fully scale the benefit. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to keep them focused on one thing for a few years or even a few moments. Or to recognize the diversity of the talents that they need to surround themselves with so that the business can actually scale based on that initial solution. As opposed to just being the million-dollar idea guy.

That's right. No, that's right. I've got this million-dollar idea. Let's do it. Yeah, that's the first one. That's the driver. Million-dollar idea. It's all about the idea.

That's not the explorer. Yeah, so that's the explorer. That's the systems. That's the systems analytic. That's the driver. Million-dollar idea. It's all about the idea. That's not the explorer. Yeah, so that's the explorer. That's the systems. That's the systems analytic, the puzzle solver. Puzzle solver. The puzzle solver. So the third one is what we call the crusader. And the crusader is somebody who is fundamentally inspired by a long-term vision,

sometimes not even a vision about the business per se. You might become an entrepreneur by accident almost. If you think about a couple of crusaders like Ben and Jerry's, was Ben and Jerry's created to sell ice cream or was it created to sell social change? Using ice cream and using the social benefit and the quality of ingredients as a way of getting the message out to millions and millions of people. So those are the first three. And then the fourth one. Yeah. And the last one is the

captain. And so if the first one's about product, the second is about problem, the third is about mission. The captain is really most about people. Of course, they all have to worry about people, but just like when you played sports, the captain of the team could tap the inner productivity of the team, right? Could go to the guy who's not playing well and say the right things that get him or her to play better. So the captain taps that sense of productivity in a way that the others don't. Right. So if you're a driver, then you need a captain on your team. Such a great point. Right? Such a great point.

So you can't do it on your own without having a captain. You are an amazing dude because you just went to the very last chapter where we talk about the fact that these four actually pair quite elegantly in terms of their ability to teach one another. The driver needs to learn from the captain and vice versa. The crusader from the explorer and vice versa. Can someone be all of them or a mixture? Well, it's interesting. Let's use you were a decathlete earlier in your career, right? So we suggest that basically at some point, yes, you have to know yourself.

We pay homage to Socrates, of course. But if we were going to amend that statement, it would really be apply yourself. Use the knowledge that you have and then put it into action. Oh, yes. There you have it, my friends. Understanding human psychology, lewishouse.com slash 656. If you enjoyed this one, make sure to share with your friends. Tag me on your Instagram story and let me know what you think. This is all about how do we understand ourselves better? How do we understand the way we think, the way we feel, and optimize this process so we can optimize our lives?

Again, a big thank you to our sponsors. Big thank you to the fan of the week, Matt Holliday. If you haven't left a review yet yet you can head over to the podcast app right now it takes two seconds click on the star you want to leave for the review we've got over 3,000 plus five star reviews so thank you to everyone who has left one already

and as Ralph Waldo Emerson said to be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment. Again, you are a unique individual in the world. No one is like you. No one has your makeup. No one has your abilities.

You are different. You are special. You are unique. And it's important to understand your own psychology, what makes you tick, what makes you unique in that way, so that you can learn to connect with other people and pursue the life of your dreams. I hope you enjoyed this one. I love you so very much. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music