The School of Greatness - 677 Leslie Odom Jr: The Art of Booking Gigs

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

"YOU HAVE TO TRY BEFORE YOU CAN QUIT." When Leslie started, his only dream was to be in Rent. When he made it, he was left to find a new dream. He struggled for a long time not finding any work. One day his eyes were opened by a mentor as to what he was doing wrong. He wasn’t respecting his industry. He had to show the universe what he wanted. He started taking beginner acting classes, and really researching every brand, role, producer, writer, etc before going out for an audition. The moment he made this mind shift, the universe responded and he was booked non stop for six years. Amazing. You really need to learn from his wisdom on this one. So, learn how to combat your fear of failure, mentally prepare for huge opportunity, and how to be an advocate for yourself, on Episode 677. Some Questions I Ask: There was a time you thought you’d end your acting career, is that right? (8:22) What do you think is the biggest lesson you learned from your mentors? (10:59) Were you proactively calling people at the time? (20:43) What did you see when you watched your audition playback? (28:32) How do you show up with the same passion and drive when you have so much to lose? (30:06) What did you say to yourself right before the mic turned on? (34:23) What was your dream growing up? (40:02) What happens if we dream too small? (42:33) How long did you think before you made your decision not to take the money? (48:04) How did you keep your belief? (53:43) In This Episode You Will Learn: The importance of mentors (9:39) What made Leslie take action (17:06) Why you need to respect your industry (24:26) How he lost his fire in his twenties (29:46) What Leslie says to himself before a big performance like the Super Bowl (31:34) How you can be a stronger advocate for yourself (36:53) How Leslies deals with finding a new dream (41:38) Leslie’s struggle between Hamilton and a big TV deal (44:54) Why it’s good to be the worst in your class (52:34) The song Leslie most loves to sing (54:43)

This is episode number 677 with Leslie Odom Jr. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow said that perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock

long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody. Welcome to the podcast today. We have the incredible, the loving, the inspiring Leslie Odom Jr., who is an actor and singer. He's performed on Broadway and in television and film, and he's released two solo jazz albums. He is known for originating the role of Aaron Burr in the Broadway musical Hamilton, which was a mega hit success that is taking over the world currently today. And a performance which he won the 2016 Tony Award for Best Actor in a Musical and the Grammy Award for Best Musical Theater Album as a a principal vocalist. He has been on several TV shows, films, and is author of the book, Failing Up. And wow, we go into some serious inspiration today. I loved connecting with him. I wish we had more time because this is amazing. Make sure to take a screenshot of this, post it on your Instagram story, tag myself, Lewis Howes, and Leslie Odom Jr. Put it on Twitter,

Facebook, all that good stuff. Things we cover today are the advice Leslie got from his mentor when he was about to quit and give it all up in acting. Also, how to combat fear of failure once you've tasted success and big status. how to mentally prepare for a huge opportunity when the whole world is watching you. We talk about that. How to be an advocate for yourself and your talent, even when no one else is for you, and why it's good to be the worst in your class.

This one, I'm telling you guys, it's really juicy, and I really think you're going to love this one. Big shout-out to the fan of the week, Lindsay Capel, who said, I first discovered podcasts when I made the decision to move away from my home state and start a new life. I was driving for Uber in between jobs and came across this podcast. Now this podcast is part of my daily routine. I make breakfast and listen to this. It sets a positive tone for the day. I appreciate your inspiration, drive, and of course, this podcast. Lindsay, thank you so much. I appreciate it. It always is inspiring to know that it's funny. I've been in Ubers and Lyfts, and actually people are listening to the podcast as I get in there.

And so many people send me messages when they're in an Uber or a Lyft that their driver is listening as they are in the backseat driving to their next destination. So it's always fun. I really appreciate that. And a big thank you to all the Lyft and Uber drivers who are listening when they have customers riding in with them. And if you guys want to leave a review, you can always go to the Apple Podcast section and leave a review right there.

Before we dive into this episode, which I'm telling you guys is really powerful, and without further ado, we've got the most incredible guest on today. Here we go. Leslie Odom Jr. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We have the legendary Leslie Odom Jr. in the house. Good to see you, sir. Good to see you, Lewis.

Glad you're here. Thanks, man. Now that I know we're neighbors, hopefully I'll run into you more often. Yeah, man. Congrats on everything, man. It's been amazing to see your journey. I was just telling you off camera about how I first found out about you from the video called Seriously, a song you sang that Sara Bareilles wrote a couple years back. We'll have it linked up in the show notes.

But the way you sang this song, for whatever reason, just resonated with me. I didn't even know you were the Hamilton guy. I didn't know everything that you'd done before. But the way that you showed up, your way of being was so profound for me. I listened to it a hundred times plus and it just moved me. So I appreciate you for your voice and for your ability to connect an idea with people. It's really powerful. Yeah. And you've got this book, Failing Up, How to Take Risks, Aim Higher and Never Stop Learning. Make sure you guys pick it

up. Christine read it in about an hour and a half. She said she couldn't stop reading it and diving in. So it's really powerful. And I wanted to dive into some of your lessons in this. Because you had a journey where you kind of had some success early on. You were on Broadway as a teenager, I believe. Is that right? Yeah.

But then for about 10-ish years, you were kind of working a little bit as an actor, but never really breaking through. And there was a moment where you thought maybe you'd end it. Is that correct? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was out here in LA. I came here. I never thought I would come here.

But after college, I had some response out here in Los Angeles. So I came out to try my hand at it. And it was a lot of fun. And it was, you know, so new. It was a new, I didn't know anybody on TV. I didn't know really anybody in entertainment growing up. So, you know, I never saw myself doing TV and movies and stuff. Because you sang, right? I sang, yeah, I sang. And then you said Broadway when I was, I did a show called Rent when I was a teenager and so it's a small show well so you know I saw I saw the line from me in Philadelphia to me on stage

you know I could see how to make that happen this jump out here I never saw so anyway I was out here and I'm sure your audience has heard it's a challenging business it's a difficult business and it was getting me down and And basically the central lesson in the book is sort of the words and advice that I got from my mentor and that changed my life and led me back to theater and everything in a fuller, greater way. How important are mentors in your life? They're everything.

They're surrogate parents in a way. You know, your parents can only, you know, we only allow them to take us so far. There's a lot of reasons why that is, but where your parents leave off, your mentors and teachers can kind of help to complete and supplement your education in these life lessons and things that are just really valuable. I've had a handful that have been meant so much to me. Yeah.

Who is the most influential mentor in your life? Well, today, it's hard for me to say the most influential. I mean, there's been five or six in my life. So it's not like there's so... There's been about five or six real ones in my life that most of them are still around, thank God. And so they continue to... I don't have it all figured out by any means, you know, so I still, I check in with them, you know, when I have, you know, when I'm at Crossroads or, you know, I have a major decision to make or even, you know, it's really helpful to process with someone where you are, you know, to look at the book or look at the movie that I've done. Project, the song. Yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah.

What do you think of that? Did I meet, you know, what I've been working on and where I was. They sort of can help chart your growth in a really useful way, too. What do you think is the biggest lesson you learned from one of your mentors? The one that I write about in the book was, you know, I turned 30, which is, you know, a big deal. Did you think that was a big, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. 30, which is, you know, a big deal. Did you think that was a big, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.

30, a lot of things shifted for me. Well, first off, when I looked at kids, I looked at them differently. When I hit 30, I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like I felt something different when I saw like a one or two-year-old. Right. In a different way. Right. Not like these are annoying little kids, but like, oh, I could see this one day.

Right. I don't know if you felt that. Well, I think what tripped me out was like, financially, I was still such a kid. You know, financially, I really- Were you in debt still or no? I was in debt. Really? And I had no stability, you know, in this profession. I had no- Do many artists have stability? No. You have to reckon with that. At 30, I was reckoning with, am I comfortable with this? The uncertainty financially, constantly. If I'm comfortable with it now at 29 going to 30, am I going to be comfortable at 39 going into 40, at 49 going into 50? Because there's no certainty that you're

going to get some big gig because for 50. Because there's no certainty that you're going to get some big gig because for 10 years, it's been uncertain. So that's what I, you know, you talk about seeing kids. I mean, I could, you know, I was like, how will I ever pay a mortgage? How will I ever take on these responsibilities if it's always like this? What's going to change about this? Right. And I was not ready. I was not willing to sign up for another decade like that. I just wasn't. So you were already in your mind like, something's got to pop and it's got to work now, and I'm going to start making money, or I got to go find something else.

I just said I have to grow up. I just have to grow up. I have to be able to pay my bills. Because it was the high highs and the low lows. Those lows are low, man. Dark. They're dark. And they can go for a long time. But there's not a gig or...

It's ugly. You could book a pilot and think, I'm going to make all this money. You already think, oh, I'm making 15, 20 grand an episode. And then it gets dropped. Right. And you get nothing. Nothing. But six months of your life was built into this one thing.

You couldn't audition for other things. And so it was like I couldn't, you talk about the, you know, there is a certain picture or whatever that you're trying to see when you hit these milestones, be it 25, 30, 35, 40, whatever they are for you, you know what I mean? And you assess, you look at where you are and you're like, does this look like what I imagined it to look like? And it didn't for you. No. And so what did you do? And you're like, does this look like what I imagined it to look like? And it didn't for you. And so what did you do? A mentor of mine, Stuart K. Robinson, out here in LA. He's brilliant.

He was an acting coach for many years. Brilliant businessman. A life coach, really. He's one of my mainstays. I met with him for career counseling, really. I wasn't looking to him to like, hey, help me stay an actor. It's like, you know my skills that I have. What else can I do?

You were already out the door. You know, I was applying at a hotel. No way. Yeah, right over here to be a night clerk, you know, not too far from where we are right now. Wow. Yeah, I was, you know, I was like, I don't necessarily want to be a night clerk, but is it the hospitality industry? Is it being an executive at a network? I mean, what casting?

I mean, what do I transition to? And he said, he listened to me, and he said, okay, listen, you can quit, and we can talk about that. There are ways that I can help you do that, for sure. But I'd love to see you try first. Wow. I'd love to see you try before you quit. Weren't you already trying for a decade? This is after a decade. You're right. So I'm looking at him like he's insane. And he says, well, I think what you're doing, if I'm hearing you correctly, is you're sitting at home and you're waiting for the phone to ring. And when the phone rings, you show up and you do a great job. You put on a nice outfit, show up, you're affable, you're a nice guy, you're prepared. And when the call comes in, you can deliver. And a lot of times, you know, you can turn that into an opportunity for yourself, but the phone didn't

ring today, right? So what did you do today for yourself in the absence of a ringing phone? Did you call anyone? Did you read anything absence of a ringing phone? Did you call anyone? Did you read anything? Did you write anything? Did you email anybody? Do people that you've worked with, do they even know you're out of work? Have you reached out to the people you've already worked with? He said, you got a pretty nice voice. You're not singing at all. He said, do you know that there are coffee shops in Los Angeles that would love to have you play the lunch hour? Wow. You can get a little band together and play the lunch hour.

He just made me aware of all. I was sitting in my apartment in West Hollywood like waiting for the phone to ring. Wow. Angry that it wasn't ringing, not understanding why it wasn't ringing and why I hadn't proven myself enough that these opportunities weren't coming to me. And what he did was he got me off my couch. And so since that day, I haven't stopped working since that was six years ago. I haven't stopped working in six years. I haven't stopped working in six years. Six years. Because there is a healthy amount of incoming calls, but I'm never waiting for the incoming call ever.

Even today? Even today. You're proactively creating the life you want. 100%. I'm never, ever waiting for somebody to call me ever again. After that lunch, it was like I left that lunch like, oh my God, what have I been doing? You know, I was ignoring, as a freelance business person, I was ignoring at least half of my business. Wouldn't you say? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. More than that. I mean, you were probably doing auditions, what, two times a week on average. So you're waiting for a callback on these auditions, which there's a hundred other guys who are auditioning as well. They probably only call three people or whatever. That's a hard game to play. Yeah. That was what I needed to hear. I love that NDR quote, right? You know the truth by the way it feels. I knew that thing was, you know, that he was telling me something true.

So you were already on the way out, though. You were already checked out, done, tired of doing auditions, tired of waiting for the phone to ring and said, I'm done. Give me help on how I can get a job. Yeah. So one thing he said to you reignited the fire inside of you to say, all right, I'm going to try for six months or something. What I talk about in the book is it's really not about necessarily even having, leaving a lunch like that or today starting something and having a list of 50 things, if you feel yourself inactive, if you feel yourself sitting on that, symbolically even, you are sitting on your couch, it's one thing.

It really is as simple as a of, you know, spiritual guide to, and I just really believe that if you take one step, the universe will meet you where you are and help you take two. You will be aided. You will be, it responds to that, the world, people around you, it responds to your action. It responds to you doing one simple thing. I love this. I just did this movie about time travel and A friend of mine posted this quote in the middle of you know me doing this movie about how a lot of people Think and imagine time travel right as going back in time getting the opportunity to go back in time to change one thing That radically affects the your life, right? If I would have just went over and introduced myself at that moment, or if I would have just picked up the phone

at that moment, you know what I mean? But very rarely do we think about the little thing we can do today that's going to radically affect. We think about going back and that one, you can do the little thing today. What is the little thing you can do today? That your future self would wish you would have done. Yeah. Wow. And so what were those things that you started to do over the next few weeks? The first thing was, Stu at the time taught this class for 25, 30 years.

Action class, right? He just stopped teaching it. It was a commercial acting class. And I was, you know, I was a classically trained actor. I'd went to Carnegie Mellon University and done pretty well. So commercial acting, it's literally acting for commercials. It's Crest commercials and Taco Bell and car commercials. It is not always glamorous, right? It's a style. It's a format. It's a, yeah.

And it's sometimes looked down. Not Broadway. Yeah, but right. It's sometimes looked down upon. You ain't winning no Oscars for commercial work, right? It's a style. It's a format. It's a, yeah. And it's sometimes looked down. It's not Broadway. Yeah, but right. It's sometimes looked down upon. You ain't winning no Oscars for commercial work, right? There's some good money in those gigs. Okay. Great money. Stu taught a commercial acting class, which, you know,

can be looked at a certain way. But Stu said, hey, come take my class. Come take my advanced class. You're not doing anything, right? So, look, start there. Come next week. It's a six week class. Come take my advanced. I hadn't taken an anything, right? So, look, start there. Come next week. It's a six-week class. Come take my advanced. I hadn't taken an acting class since I'd been out of school almost a decade.

Wow. So I slept on it, and I said, he's offering me something. I'm going to take the beginning class. I'm going to start. I'm not doing anything. You're a trained professional. I've been on Broadway and everything, but I'm going to start at the beginning. Wow.

Commercial acting class with Stu. If it takes me six months to get through all of the curriculum. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'll work my way up to advanced or whatever, you know. I took two classes. The very first class changed my life. By the second class, I didn't finish the six-week course because I started working so much. You just started getting gigs right away?

Right immediately. And it was what I was learning, but I also think that it was the universe responding to the fact that I was doing anything. And the energy you were putting out there. Absolutely. So it was going to reward you. Yes, I felt it.

I mean, it was. Now were you proactively calling people at that time or just the act of you doing that, people started to respond what happened was i took the class like the class was the immediate action that i took so like the next week say i was in class it was a three-hour class and when i tell you i mean the bells and whistles that were going on off in my head during this class you know i, I... Like what? What was going on? There was one exercise that we did. There was one exercise that we did

where it's a class of like 25 people and most of the people are new to LA. These are, you know, these are very, very green people. All different ages, you know, because commercial work employs all different sizes, all different types of people.

These are moms whose kids are finally out of the house. These are teenagers, you know, kids. Beginners. Beginners, right? From all over the country. You're thinking to myself, what am I doing here? What am I doing here? A little bit.

So one of the first exercises Stu does is two things in that class, the very first class that blow my mind. Number one, he says, he hips us to the numbers that are involved in the commercial world. So Pepsi-Cola wants to do a new ad campaign. I'm going to get this wrong. Right. But Pepsi-Cola wants to do a new ad campaign. How much do you think they're going to spend on a new ad campaign? Just so you, you know, what do you think? Millions. What do you think?'re going to spend on a new ad campaign? Just so you, you know, what do you think?

Millions. What do you think? On a whole campaign nationwide? 50 to 100 million. Oh, you should have taken the class. You're exactly right. Some are probably thinking. We're thinking 5 million.

Right, small. 15 million, 20 million. Right, right. These are the answers that he's getting. We had no idea that the numbers were 50 to a hundred million dollars. So there's a, there's a line. There's a lot of money in it. There's a line out in LA that you hear, you know, they don't know what they want. Commercial, you know, you go in for these commercial auditions and they don't know what they want. And Stu says to us, so we're spending 50 to a hundred million dollars on an ad campaign. We don't think we know what we want.

50 to 100 million dollars on an ad campaign. You don't think we know what we want? We know exactly what we want. We just don't want to tell you. Wow. We don't want to have to tell you. We expect you to know what we want. Right. Like he's shattering like a myth, an L.A. myth.

This is what actors tell themselves in L.A. that they don't know what they want. We know exactly what we want. And we spent 50 to to $100 million. So right there, it's like, number one, respect us. Respect what you're coming in for. You know, yeah, it's a Jetta commercial. We've spent $50 million on it.

Yeah, a lot more than a TV show. You've got to have a certain amount of respect when you're going in for something like that. If you're trying to be a partner, if you're trying to be a business partner with these people, you're trying to fulfill. We have a need today and you've come in to fulfill our need. So when Stu would talk about the research involved in a commercial audition, OK, like figure out who we are. What commercials have we done in the past? Who are we? What's our brand ethos what do we stand for what's our message because if you're trying to book these commercials and i

was like you said you know commercial is this was i wasn't eating you know i mean like this is my rent money you know i want to collaborate with these people he was just telling us all the ways that like we were not respecting this industry he's like it is very easy for you to go from you feel like you're going in you're rolling the dice it's very easy for you to book these things you know these are the ways all the steps do the training show up prepared i booked like two national commercials the next week. No way. I promise you. Just by following the principles. Just by respecting the industry. So then what I thought, Lewis, was,

okay, so now I'm applying this to commercial acting. To be honest, I haven't been applying this to my other auditions. Wow. I haven't been applying this kind of respect. When you get an audition for a CBS show, who are the creators? What other work have they done?

Who is ABC? If you're not self-made, if you're not, listen, if you're producing your own work, if you're writing your own books and you're making your own content, you don't have to do that. I was, at the time, I was an auditioning actor. I wanted to collaborate with people

and I was not holding up my end of the bar. You knew the rules of being a good actor, a great actor, but you didn't know the rules of the game of booking the gigs. No. And it's a whole different art. Yeah. It's a whole different performance that you have to do in preparation to get ready to step in. Oh, yeah. I was still sort of working by accident.

You know what I mean? Right. Because you had talent. Yeah. But you could have booked a lot more, it sounds like. Yeah. And you started to once you learned the rules of the game. I did.

Of booking. Yeah. There was that. And then there was the other lesson that he, I'm trying to get him so bad to start his brand of helping because he continues to teach and like get me out of my own way the other thing that he had this exercise where everybody in the class would get up and it was he said we were auditioning for a toothpaste commercial and so um some commercial auditions they can really feel like there's like there's nothing, not much to hang on to.

Right. So he- Except for that big check at the end. Okay. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So he had groups of like six or seven go up in front of the class, line up, and Stu was behind the camera and he would go down the line and he would ask you a question.

What's your favorite dessert? And you'd answer, what's your name, first of all? On camera. On camera. What's your favorite dessert? And you'd answer, what's your name, first of all? On camera. On camera, what's your favorite dessert? And then you'd go to the next person. What's your name? What's the last great vacation you went on? Went down the line.

Then the next six or seven people. And in the class, I'm watching everybody do it, and I'm trying to form, you know, I'm forming my own. I wonder what Stu's looking for. I know what I'm like, you know, God, people are so green. And, you know, I mean, what's, you know, I'm trying to gauge who I think is the best and who's not. I thought I did pretty good. You know, it's my name and answer a question. I can do that. So then he gets to everybody in the class and he does this thing where he said, you know, sometimes we've got a lot of things to do in a commercial casting office

and the thing that we're looking for is going to show up. It's not about what you actually say. So we sometimes watch these things with the sound off. Wow. So he turns the sound off and we watch it back.

Blew your mind probably. Blew your mind probably, what you saw. Blew my mind. Because you probably thought you said something interesting and your tone was so powerful and flowed, but how was your body language and your facial expression and the smile and the eyes? The light, the light inside. What mood are you actually, it's not about,

what are you actually creating in the viewer? What do I actually feel? And some of those green people, those people that are just- Crushed probably. Because they were love and they were light and they were joy. So it's like it doesn't matter what you said. It doesn't matter that you didn't say the right thing. I would call them back.

That's what beginner's luck is. Because they don't know. That's what beginner's luck is. They're being this passionate, joyful person. They're excited to be there. They want to express themselves. They're not jaded. They're not angry. They're not trained. They're not trained. They're not sad. They're not, you know what I mean? All those things that over time, the heartbreaks and the rejection and all that stuff, that's what I saw when I saw myself. And I saw it immediately. What did you see? I saw somebody, and I understood him, but I saw somebody that had something to offer but wanted you to let him know that it was okay to bring it.

Let me know that it's safe first. And then I'll give you everything that I have. Make me feel safe first. So it was guarded. I don't have time to make you feel safe. Right. I don't have time to make you feel safe. Commercial director or booker, they need to know who's going to be great right now. Let's go. Right. And so I was in my own way. Wow. The rejection, the heartache, all that shit was in my way. And so the mantra that I had after that, I said, I'm going to come rushing forward in every single room that I'm in. If you don't want to hire me, that's okay. There's someone behind you that's going to, though. So move.

It's not you. Thank you very much. Is it you? I have something to bring today. I have something to offer. It's not you. Who is it you? I have something to bring today. I have something to offer. It's not you. Who is it? Wow. I'm not going to let that make me cagey or hide or all that stuff. You know what I mean? I had to. So those two things, respecting who I was going in for and coming rushing forward in every

room. I haven't stopped working in six years. Wow. Do you feel like you kind of lost that in your 20s where you were more hesitant? For sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's what I saw. That was a result of- You gave yourself feedback. You're like, okay, if I was a casting director, this person has low energy, they're insecure, or whatever it was. Yeah. They weren't certain, they weren't passionate. Oh, yeah. When I went on that rent audition when I was 16 years old- Fired up. I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know any different. Beginner's luck. I booked the first thing I ever did.

You know, that's beginner's luck. I wasn't afraid of anything. Yeah. Bring it on. Right. You know, I didn't have any heartache. I didn't have any. There was nothing to be jaded about.

What about now? Since you have been working for six years in a row, you've got the Tony Awards. you've got the, you know, performing with the president, all these things have happened. Now you do have something to lose, potentially. You could think that way. Oh, yeah. How do you show up with that same passion and drive when, if you get rejected, maybe it'll hurt even more? Oh, yeah. That's the work.

That's the work you have to do. Because, yeah, there is more to lose now. I've got a wife. I've got a kid. I've got reputation. Yeah, you know, like these things in life. And yeah, they can kill your art. That fear, that worry, those kinds of things, they can ruin a good career.

They can ruin a good instrument. That's the work. That's why you keep honest people around you. You stay honest with yourself. You look at that stuff. It's hard to do, but I watch my work. I listen to my work. Really? Oh, God. I can't listen to myself back. Oh, it's awful. It's awful. But it's like, you know, you've got to check in with yourself to go, where can I improve? That's not quite right. And that's the work. Wow. What do you say to yourself, I think, about before performing at the Super Bowl or a big moment like that?

How do you bring it with poise and passion and love and light and not worry? The Super Bowl was, I don't know, when I'm given an opportunity like that, it's a blessing, right? It's a real blessing. You're given, even for a minute to a minute and 30 seconds, you're given a platform. They're giving you, or you're borrowing a platform, because it ain't my platform.

Right. But they're giving you, and so, yeah, you come up against it. Who are you? What do you have to say? It really is borrowing a platform platform because they didn't tell me how i should arrange that song or no what i should wear or what what my vibe should be all that kind of stuff and so you have the chance to say what you intend to say and so what is the what is the feeling that you're trying to create in people what do do you want to say? So in that moment, I wanted to honor, I had some people in my life, in the world, you know, I wanted to honor. I wanted to, you know, make some people proud. Who were those people you were thinking about?

Well, I think that it's been the NFL, as we all know, you know, there's been some players, some professionals that have been really trying to use their platform. They're getting penalized for it. This season, it looks like, yeah, some of them are going to. You were thinking of them? I was thinking of them. I was thinking of my ancestors. I was thinking of my ancestors in this country.

this country. And without sugarcoating it, not necessarily, I can't all the way answer what they would feel about me standing up singing a song like America the Beautiful, right? I don't know. But these are the questions that I'm asking. This is what I wonder. This is who I have to keep in mind in a moment like that. Does that make sense? And so when you stand up in a moment like that, you haven't necessarily answered all the questions, but the fact that you're asking them brings a certain integrity to the work. It means that you're not going to get up there. I can curse, right? Sure. You know what I mean? Like my mom was, you're not going to get up there and show your ass. Right. Because you have people

that have made a moment like this possible. You have people that you owe a certain amount of dignity to, you know. Gratitude. Gratitude. You know, so it's just asking questions like that. How do I make this song? How do I arrange this song? They told me they wanted me to sing with the choir of children.

How do I? That's all they told me, but what is the arrangement? What is the sound of it? How do I imbue this moment with all of these things that I'm feeling? That's it, that's the gig. What did you say to yourself right before the lights turned on and you were standing there in front of the mic? Blackout. Meaning?

You don't focus on the... You don't focus on the... How many people watch the Super Bowl every year? What is it? 100 million? I don't know. Yeah. I think it's something like that.

Something like that. You don't focus on the 100 million. You don't even focus on the 66,000 or whatever in this room. There's a camera. I tried to do an intimate thing. Yeah. Think of one person or five people. Right. You've got to.

Yeah, make it small. These are the people I can see right here in my vision. There's a camera right there. You know, how do I make this, you know? It's interesting you say that because when I speak on stage and if I'm in front of, it doesn't matter if it's 500 or 10,000 people when I'm speaking,

I used to get really nervous back in the day. And then someone told me, I said, what do I do when I'm just nervous and I feel like I'm blanking out or I'm forgetting something or I messed up? What's the secret? And this is a guy who performs in front of 20, 30,000 people speaking every week. He's in his fill town. And he said, whenever I feel like I'm losing myself or the audience, I focus on one person and I'll connect with that one person and think about what their life is like and what they're going through and connecting the message to just that one person. And by doing that in an intimate way, I usually connect with the whole room. And so I started to do that and I realized, wow, there's so much power in presence and intimacy

with a few people as opposed to how do I captivate the whole world or the whole room? But really, how do I focus on what a few people might be going through and speak to them? It sounds like you were thinking that. How do I, you know, connect with a few of the players who maybe have stood up or taken the knee or, you know, however you want to say it. And a few of my family members or people like that. These kids behind me, you know, what example am I to them right now in this moment? Because they're going to feed off my energy. You know, I was in front of like 11 and 12-year-olds.

What do I want to show them about courage and integrity in this moment? You said something in here I highlighted. You have to be both a harsh critic and a strong advocate for yourself. And I love that because I think a lot of actors, musicians, artists are their strongest critics all the time. And they forget to advocate for their gifts and their work and their value. How can people, it doesn't matter what business they're in, or art they're in, or who they are, how can people be stronger advocates for themselves?

Not in an egoic way, but in a way that propels them forward, as opposed to always, I wasn't good enough, or I messed this up, or I suck. How do you balance that? Well, number one, I'll say, I'm going to give away a little secret right here but um number one i say i both of those things are true but though a lot of those artists the truth is whenever you put yourself out there whenever you stand up in front of an audience of people

whenever you are auditioning even but but especially when you're performing that is you saying that you believe in yourself. That is you saying, I have something of value to offer. And so we just, we don't, you don't often see the pep talks that we give ourselves. You know, we don't show, because they're weird. We don't show them to people, but you know, it's on the drive over. It's before you step on for the Super Bowl.

You have to believe that you have something to share, something of value to share. You have to believe that. You study any of the greats, you know, any of the people that you love, you realize that you forgive them anything. You forgive them anything. What do you mean? What I mean is those of us that are trying to, you know, be great, you study the greats, and they weren't perfect all the time. Sammy wasn't perfect all the time. Michael wasn't perfect all the time. Frank, Marilyn.

They seem perfect. Nina. But Miles, the whole sort of last third of Miles' career, he's exploring the margin because he can play it perfectly. I've already done that, though. What's the rub? He's exploring the imperfect, right? What I'm trying to say is what your audience is responding to is not your perfection. what your audience is responding to is not your perfection. What's touching people, what's moving people is not the fact that you're perfect. We're responding to your courage.

We're responding to the God in you, to the inspiration in you, to the honesty in you, the vulnerability in you. We're responding to you bringing us your truth, whatever that looks like. So I guess the answer to the question is really analyze what it is you love about your heroes and you'll see these things. And so you'll have some patience and you'll see these things and so you'll you'll have some patience and some like you'll let yourself alone a little bit because you're on the same path it's like yeah if miles was here right now would i care if miles played a flat note no you'd be like this is amazing i get to watch my heroes if michael was here right now or nina was here right now would we care if she forgot her lyrics?

It's like pull them up. Somebody get them on the phone. We don't care about that. We love you for something else. And so realize that. Yeah. The energy they bring. The passion.

Yeah. It's not about perfection. What was your dream growing up? Was it to be a Broadway star or was it something else? growing up? Was it to be a Broadway star or was it something else? Once I really had a dream, once the Rent thing happened and I sort of, because I say it in the book, I did not, my dream was not to be in show business. My dream was to be in Rent. Wow. That was my dream.

To be in that musical. To be in that show. Wow. Like, that's as far as I saw. That's it. And so just the way my life has worked out, you know, that happened. And so then I really had to dream a new dream. I didn't have any dreams beyond that. You know, it's like the Olympics of your dreams.

Go to the Olympics. I did it. What am I going to do now? You know what I mean? Like, you sort of have to do that work and like dreaming and so i think part of me after that had a dream of like well i'd love to see what i because i jumped in on that moving train i'd love to see what it feels like to be a part of something like that from the beginning and that's what hamilton was you were in there

from the very beginning, right? Yeah. Didn't you see like an early taping of it or something, an early scripting? Yeah, and so that's sort of where I find myself, you know, the last few years. The world or, you know, the fans of the show really got to see me living my wildest dream.

And so then again, you have to go, who am I? What do I want that's more than that? Because that really was it. And now you've achieved the second biggest dream. And so do you struggle as well? Do you struggle with discovering a new dream? Because you're like, okay, I can book anything I want, but what do I really want?

Not that you struggle with, I can book anything I want. Well, things are coming to me much easier. Yeah, it's different. You know, it's certainly different now. But yeah, no, you have to be careful what anything I want. Well, things are coming to me much easier. Yeah. It's different. It's certainly different now. But yeah, you have to be careful what you wish for. Yeah. Because you can have it.

And the challenge is, I think Warren Buffett said the difference between successful people and really successful people is that extremely successful people learn to say no more than successful people. If you want to really achieve your dreams, I think I'm butchering that quote, but if you want to really achieve your dreams, you can't say yes to everything at a certain point. To get to a place, you've got to say yes a lot, and then you've got to start saying no to everything to go after that few things that really are meaningful.

For sure. You mention in your book about dreams. What happens if we dream too small? I mean, I think I just said, you know, it's really, it is about be careful what you wish for. Because you can get it. And so if you dream small, small dreams show up. They do. And you go, oh, it doesn't quite feel like I thought it would feel.

So it's been really important to me to check in with myself and ask myself what it is I want and why, too. Also asking why you want the things you want. What is that now and why? Well, I think what I want, I ain't going to tell you everything. Give me a little teaser. Give me a little taste. you know what I mean? I think I would like, the music thing is something that I'm really pursuing and I have a sort of vision for how it looks and how it. More jazz stuff or?

It is the same lane, the same lane that I'm in. But, you know, I want to expand that and grow that part of my business. And I would like to do that. I don't want to do that to the detriment of my family that makes it you know because it's because when your daughter you yeah and it's against be careful what you wish for because that you know you could be traveling all over the world non-stop because people want you and you can pursue that thing where like you're on the road for two or three years. So I don't want that. I don't want that, but I do want to continue to pursue it because I love it and it's interesting.

Who do you think has done a great job in your industry in doing that? They've pursued the music career, and they have a model that you like where they have a family and they've got kids, but they're not constantly stressed on the road. I think Buble has done it really well. Because he kind of comes out like two months a year it seems like and just crushes it. He's done it really well and I know they just had the tragedy with their one kid. But he lives in Italy with his family.

That's where he lives. He doesn't live here. He lives in Italy with his family and he makes his music when he feels called to make it. He goes on the road and then he goes back to Italy. He does his Christmas specials and crushes it. Yeah. I think he's found that he could, you talk about saying no, he certainly could do more. Right. I bet there's a lot of people that would love him to do more. That would love to see him all the time. But he says no a lot, I think. I think he's done it really well. Wow.

I heard also that as you were developing Hamilton, because it was a couple-year process, right? Yeah. I heard that you got some big gig, TV show, that was going to pay a lot of money. Yeah. And you essentially had a decision to make. Like, do I go and finally start making some real money with this show and move to L.A. or keep doing this Hamilton thing where I believe in,

but who knows what really could happen. I think it's going to be big. How did you navigate that? A really talented friend of mine came, called me from New York this week. There's always confirmation, too. I remember when I first got to L.A. and I, you know, was facing all these challenges and stuff. And I didn't really have anybody to call that had been through them.

And I think I say this in the book, too, that if you find yourself in that, sometimes you will find yourself mentorless for a moment. And I think that that's because you're walking a path that you will then be able to help somebody. Be the mentor. Be the mentor to somebody. Because it's like, you know, in your little circle, not you're the first person to walk on the moon, but in your little circle or whatever, you're the first person to go through it, these specific things. A guy I really respect in New York called because he's trying to get his concert career started. And he just wanted some advice about it. Again, I'm so honored by a call like that because I get to just give somebody some love and pour into them for a second. After I got off the phone with him, I texted him. And I said, there's one thing I forgot.

You've made a new decision. And I'm not telling you which way to go, but you've in making a new decision in your life, know that something is going to come to test your resolve. An opportunity is going to come to test your resolve about this new decision. And however you answer that opportunity will speak to what you really want. just want i don't know what the test is going to be but like when you say this is what i want something's going to come to say are you sure and that's what that tv show was yeah you say you wanted this theater thing you know that you want to be part of something from the ground up, okay, here's a whole lot of money and...

To test you. Yeah, a whole lot of money and a chance to... This other thing that you've sort of been pursuing as well, this TV thing,

there's an opportunity for that or you can go do an off-Broadway show and make $800 a week to be a part of something that you really love, that feels really, really good.

Who are you? Who are you? And you have to answer that. I tried to get comfortable with the money. My mom needed a new roof, and like, who am I to turn down a half a million dollars? Like, you know, when you have nothing?

Like, to go make $800, are you an idiot? Go to bed and, are you dumb? Like, go to bed, take the're an idiot? Go to bed and are you dumb? Like go to bed, take the money. Yeah, yeah. In the middle of the night, I wake up like in a panic attack. Like my body was just like, that's not who you are. You've never been that guy. Like I can't do that.

So yeah. So you felt it. How long did you think on it before you made the decision? Maybe two, three months. But after I'd made the decision, then the tricky part was contractually getting out of that other thing because I was contracted to do that job. Where you can't do other gigs. Yeah. I was contracted to do that TV show. And Hamilton, I was not technically contracted to do. Hamilton was the gamble in every way.

But it was like deciding that I didn't want to do it and then trying know, was the, Hamilton was the gamble in every way, but it was like deciding that I didn't want to do it and then trying to figure out how to get out of it. What am I going to do? It was a stressful. Then I heard you emailed the executive and like, pretty much just begged in a sense. You're just like, please let me. Yeah. Kind of like it was that thing of, um, the troubleshooting, you know, when you call and when your cable's on the fritz and you call and you're asking for, you know, how to fix my cable. And the first thing they say, well, okay, is it on? Okay. Is it plugged in?

Let's check. Plug it in the back of the box. Yes. Is the light on? Right. Yeah, yeah. Like those kind of things, you know, that you start there and you work your way up. That's usually where a lot of the challenges are for people. Right. It's like you press right? Yeah, like those kind of things you know that you start there That's usually where a lot of challenges are for people. You know, right like

Press on on your computer first. Yeah, you know hold it down Yeah, yeah, it was like that. I had been thinking of all these different ways How am I gonna you know maneuver out of this contract and it was like There was somebody that gave me advice And it was like, there was somebody that gave me advice, something, you know, somewhere in there too. But like distilling that piece of advice down was, why don't you just ask? Right. Like before I try to think of the way, and then I'm going to have to hire a lawyer and a public, and just open your heart.

Just like go with a humble heart and ask. There's probably no way, but start there. Start there. And you asked, and what happened? They were like, sure. Right away. And you're like, oh, why did I stress about this? They were like, okay.

We got five other people that probably want this gig. Sure. We're sad to lose you, but if you're crazy enough to turn down a TV show to go do an off-Broadway show for $800 a week, good luck. Right. Yeah. Moron. Yeah. It worked out. But then you got the guy tickets or something, right?

I did. Yeah, yeah. It was a thank you. Yeah. You mentioned also, I like this, the work you put in when no one is watching will matter far more than the work you put in when the cameras are rolling. Why is that in your mind? You look at this movie, David's movie right now,

Blindspotting, that everybody in your viewing public and listening public should go see. Is this on Netflix? No, it is in the movie theater this weekend. Promise me you're going to go this weekend. Is it out tonight? Tonight. I will go.

Tonight? I just got tickets for Skyscraper, but I'm going to have to go now. You have to go to see Blindspotting. You will go tonight i just got tickets for skyscraper but i'm gonna have to go now you have to go to see blonde you can go see i'm sure that's great go go see tomorrow yeah yeah or sunday promise sunday night okay tonight or sunday night okay great got you i will text you when i'm done okay in the theater perfect yeah it's so fucking fantastic wow and this is what i mean about work in the dark this is a movie they've been writing for 10 years really 10 years it's like la la land all over it's like seven eight years they've been working on it for 10 years and like nobody cared nobody cared five minutes ago

they were working on a thing just just quietly toiling away on this thing that they cared about for 10 years and then the second david you know moment, they're like, maybe we can make our movie now. And people invested in it and they made their movie and it's beautiful. And the 10 years of work shows. Lynn worked on Hamilton for six years. Wow. Six years. So that's what I mean.

There is a certain amount of work that we can do once we get a gig or once the cameras start rolling, you can still keep working, but this guy spends time in the gym. My trainer's here. You know what I mean? Like that work that you do before, you know, there's nothing that beats the work that you do, the good eating that you do, the work you do in the gym. Sleep, everything, yeah. Before it's time. Stay ready if you can. Stay ready. You don't have to get ready. Is that what they say?

That's what they say. That's what they say. I haven't been to the gym in months. Really? So that's why you're going right after this. You're like, let's go. He's like, what's happening, man? You got to go on the road with him.

Get him up at 6 a.m. Why is it good to be the worst in your class or peer group? Because you want to train the people that are better than you. You want to be around people. Yeah, I say if you find yourself, you find a situation where you're the best in your class, you're the best on the team, like you might need to find a new team. You might need to find a situation where you're the best in your class, you're the best on the team, you might need to find a new team. You might need to find a new team. You might need to find a new

class because that'll stagnate. That'll cut you off. You just, you want to be around people that are gonna keep you striving and keep you reaching. Carnegie was like that. The Hamilton Company was like that. You know, I was on stage with Lynn and Daveed. Stars. Oak and Anthony you reaching. Carnegie was like that. The Hamilton Company was like that.

I was on stage with Lynn and Davi. Stars. Oak and Anthony and Jasmine, Philippa. These people, it's like we made each other better. Wow. In the best way. It was all love. It wasn't competition.

No, no, no. You want to keep up. You want to prove that you deserve your spot on the team as well. You know, because you're playing, it's all-star. So these were all-stars who were playing for 800 bucks a week. Oh, yeah. That didn't know that what was going to happen, right? I mean, you guys believed, like, this is going to be amazing.

We're going to make it on Broadway, I'm assuming, because you wanted to spend two years of your life for nothing. Yeah. So how did you guys, I mean, it's crazy. The belief you guys had in the vision, how did you guys, I mean, it's crazy, the belief you guys had in the vision. How did you keep that belief? We just all...

When everyone probably had other opportunities. You know what you know, man. You know the truth by the way it feels. You know what you know. We didn't know that other people would like it,

would care about it as much as we did. That you never know. You don't know if it's going to connect with, if other people are going to, would care about it as much as we did, that you never know. You don't know if it's gonna connect with, if other people are gonna see what you see. But, like. But you know you loved it.

Oh yeah. Like I hope you feel about blind spotting the way I do. Yeah. But I know what I think of it. David and Raphael know what they think of it. Wow. So you don't know if it's gonna connect with a wider group,

but it's like, when it gives you the goosebumps, when it makes you feel alive, stay there. That's the juice. What's a song you love to sing the most? It changes, but in my concerts, sometimes I do this Duke Ellington joint, Come Sunday, that I like. I did it on my PBS special. I like it. It's simple and if it's well-placed, if it's well-timed in a set, it can really drop everybody in the room and feel good. Imagine for a moment you had one last opportunity

to sing a line in any song ever written. Your song, another song, a song in your mind that you haven't even sung yet. Okay. What would be the line of a song if this was to be the only thing that you could sing last for the world, what would that sentence or line or chorus be? I want to thank you for such a simple question. I want to thank you. Without letting you prepare. Yeah, I want to thank you for lobbing just the

softball at me right there. Or at least the one that maybe comes to mind right now, maybe the one that's on your mind or on your heart. I got it. Yeah, what would that be? Amen. How would you sing it? You won't... I f***ing just answered

that impossibly hard question. Imagine the world is listening and you got to say amen the way you wanted to. Amen. And you just die. I like that. Just drop that.

That's powerful. That's powerful. I like it. Why amen? What does that word mean to you? I think because you hope that there's some part of your life that has walked a spiritual journey. You know what I mean? There's some part of your life that has been leading you to where you're supposed to go.

So that this whole thing has unfolded like a prayer. Like a Bible verse. And the story of Lewis. The story of, you know what I mean? Like that it is all played out and worked. We all hope, right, that we die with our family around us and in our garden and at noon, you know what I mean? Like you hope, you know what I mean? The sun coming to your face, yeah. It doesn't happen for everybody, but you know, if you talk about the way you hope, you know,

you hope that it's had meaning and purpose and that in the end you would glean some of that in the end you would understand some of that and you would have peace at the end and you would you know have resolve what's the biggest lesson your wife's tell you through all this she continues to teach me how to be a partner mmm she continues to teach me that through her example and also just through her partnership you know her companionship she teaches me and also I learn on my own and she continues to teach me how to show up for somebody you know I used to think that it was about partly because the way I, too, and like the way that my dad thought it was supposed to go.

That was my example. Learning a new thing now. But, you know, I used to think that it was about sort of like perfecting someone. You know, with love, but, you know, you let people know all the different ways that they could be better right right and um that becomes weighing after a while that's for sure you know that it really i think with my dad too like you know a lot of that was about like the more i'm looking at you the less i have to look at myself you know so, so really it's, you know, spent a good amount of that time pointing right here.

You know what I mean? You become more good with yourself the better you're going to be for somebody else. But watching her like have this moment now, like this, her waitress moment and getting to support her in that. Yeah. I might go watch her next week. Is it next week?

No, dude. She starts September 4th. So she's there. You'll come to New York. that. Yeah. I might go watch it next week. Is it next week? No, dude. She starts September 4th. Ah. So she's there. You'll come to New York. September, October. Six weeks, right? She's there for eight weeks. Oh, perfect.

I'll watch it again. I saw it with Catherine McPhee. You saw Catherine. And it was pretty good. Yeah. You got to see Nicolette. She's going to be great. I'd love to see her, yeah.

She's going to be great. Well, she sang a duet with you, right? On your, didn't I hear? Yeah, we sing all the time, yeah. Yeah, I heard it on Spotify. It was beautiful, man. Thanks. Yeah, you guys really connect in that way.

I love to watch her. So when is that going to be? September? September and October, she's there. Go watch Waitress on Broadway. Amen. Okay, I've got a couple few questions left for you. Okay.

Softballs, I'm sure. One of them will be. One of them won't be. What do you wish more people would ask you about? I'm sure people will ask you about Hamilton all the time, but what's the thing you wish more people would ask you about? I'm sure people will ask you about Hamilton all the time, but what's the thing you really wish people would ask you about? I don't have one of those. I'm pretty good at, I'm pretty good at taking whatever somebody hands me and like talking about what I want to talk about anyway. So if there's something

that's on my heart, I'll stop. And if there's something I want to say, I'll stop it. And if you'd be like, you know what I really want to say? I saw this thing today, blind spotting, go see it. Like, you know what I mean? Like waitress. Yeah. I'm pretty good at that. That's great. How can our community support you? What's the big things you've got going on? We've got the book. Make sure you guys grab a copy of this book. It's never too late to learn to risk. What else has got going on for you? There's going to be a record out next year that I believe in very much. So I hope that if they've never heard of me before

or if they listen to stuff now, I hope that people give that record a shot. Yeah. I'm going to link up your music and stuff. I'm going to link up the video of Seriously. I don't know if that's the title of that. That is exactly.

It's called Seriously. This video is unbelievable and you do an amazing job of singing and performing it. This is called The Three Truths. Again, a softball for you here. Lobbing it up.

So imagine we are at your last day. It's noon. Your family's there. You've got the sun glistening on you in your garden. And you've achieved everything in your life you want. Every dream, everything you want to do. You've had the experiences. You've met the people. You've had the life that you want,

right? With challenges and heartache. But you're looking back. For whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you. Your books, your music. You've got to take it with you when you leave. So no one has access to your words or your music or videos anymore for whatever reason, hypothetical. But your family gives you a piece of paper and a pen and says, will you write down the three things you know to be true about your experiences in life? These are called the three truths. And every other guest gets this softball question at the end, so don't worry, you're not alone. And whatever's on your heart right now, or on your mind,

the three lessons you would leave behind in that moment, what would be your three truths? You're gonna find God the quickest and easiest in nature. It's not gonna be in your devices. It's not gonna be in nature. It's not going to be in your devices. It's not going to be in technology. If you're searching for God, if you're searching for connection, if you're searching for,

if you're looking for God, look for him in nature. Look for it in nature. Family is everything. Be good to your family. Friends are family too. That's great. Great truth. See, simple one. Softball. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Leslie, for your incredible gift and light to the world and your ability to inspire so many people

through pursuing the thing that you love to do, even when it wasn't the sexiest or the most financially successful or the greatest opportunity at the time. But you pursuing the thing from your heart and being fully expressed, that's what inspires the world. And I acknowledge you for that. And I acknowledge you continually pursuing those things, pursuing the types of songs you want to sing, pursuing the lifestyle you want to live with your family when you could be doing a lot of other things as well. So you're setting a great example for all of us.

And I acknowledge you. Yeah. Where can we follow you on social media or your website? What's, what's the best place we can connect and support you? I try to keep it really simple. It's Leslie Odom Jr. everywhere. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook too. Yeah. Where do you spend the most time? Instagram, Twitter? Um, probably, yeah. Instagram and Twitter and like less and less, but yeah, but, but it's, but it is, it's the new fan mail, right? It's like instead of people having to put a stamp on something,

they can just let you know, hey, I saw you in this thing and I dig it. That's cool. So we'll follow you there. And the final question then is what is your definition of greatness? I mean, this is probably going to be like the lamest answer. I just think of somebody that's skilled. There's lots of different ways to be skilled. Janis Joplin is skilled in a very different way

than Beyonce is skilled. Rihanna is skilled in a very different way than Michael Jackson was skilled. But I just look at somebody who's highly skilled, who's, I think this is what it is. I think I'm landing on it. Because it's about individuality. So greatness is maximizing your individuality.

Like the fullest potential. I want to see the fullest, most fully realized version of who you are. That's greatness. My man, Leslie. Thank you, bud. Appreciate it. Amen. Powerful. Amen. I hope you guys enjoyed that one. Big shout out to Leslie Odom Jr. for coming on. guys enjoyed that one big shout out to leslie odom jr for coming on loved this inspirational human this actor this artist the singer he is a empowering creator uplifting humanity again if you enjoyed this take a screenshot and share with your friends over on instagram tag me and leslie odom jr the full show notes are at lewishouse.com slash 677 where you can see all

the links that we talked about from today all the resources over on the show notes are at lewishouse.com slash 677, where you can see all the links that we talked about from today, all the resources over on the show notes, the full video interview, subscribe to the podcast over on YouTube. If you haven't yet, we just about to hit 300,000 subscribers. So if you do subscribe there, thank you. If you don't yet, make sure to get on that. So you get notified there as well with all the great behind the scenes and full video interviews. Again, if you enjoyed this, take a screenshot, share with your friends all over the place on social media. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow said, Perseverance is a great element of success.

If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake somebody. Let's go. It's time to go. And this is the perfect moment for me to share about my show on perseverance. It's taken a long time to get this out. 10 years I've been developing myself and developing an idea for this to come out. Perseverance is the key. If you want to hear the behind the scenes of the talk show

launch, you can listen to the previous episode on this podcast as well, where I cover everything behind the scenes. You have an awesome opportunity to achieve great things in your life, but you must be willing to persevere. You must be willing to persevere and continue on. You must be willing to persevere and continue on. I love be willing to persevere and continue on. I love you so very much. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា Thank you.