The School of Greatness - 689 A Coach's Guide to Success with Rick Pitino

Episode Date: September 5, 2018

A TRUE LEADER ISN'T AFRAID TO MAKE THE FIRST MISTAKE. Coach Rick is a former American basketball coach. He’s been head coach of several teams in NCAA Division I and the NBA including Boston University, Providence College, The New York Knicks, University of Kentucky, The Boston Celtics, and University of Louisville. He is the only coach to lead three different schools to the final four. In 2013, he was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. He is the author of the book Success is a Choice, he wrote an autobiography in 1988 called Born To Coach, and has a new book called My Story. In this episode, we dive into what it takes to get the most out of someone’s abilities. So get ready to learn how to be a better coach and a better leader on Episode 689. Some Questions I Ask: How do you get people to buy into a system? (12:40) What’s the speech you give the first day the teams all together? (14:20) What happened with the Kahwi Leonard situation? (21:00) Why did you leave Louiseville? (27:00) How have you been handling the aftermath of Louisville? (33:20) Do you want to coach again? (35:45) What’s more important- recruiting great players or having great plays in a game? (47:00) How do you support your mental health when you’re going through something hard? (1:02:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why delayed gratification is what we should be looking for (14:00) College basketball vs. NBA- which Rick enjoyed more (17:15) The greatest lessons we can learn through losing (17:55) Mental and emotional ability to rise above (24:40) How ego can get in the way of greatness (37:00)

This is episode number 689 with coach Rick Pitino. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. John Maxwell said, a leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way. And today we've got a great coach on. His name is Coach Rick Pitino, who's a former American basketball

coach. And he's been a head coach of several teams in NCAA Division I and in the NBA, including Boston University, Providence College, the New York Knicks, the University of Kentucky, the Boston Celtics, and University of Louisville. And he is the only coach to lead three different schools to a Final Four, which is massive and extremely hard to do. And in 2013, he was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. He's the author of a book named Success is a Choice, and he did an autobiography in 1988 called Born to Coach, and he's got a new book out called My Story. And today we dive in about what it takes to get the most out of someone's abilities as a coach. And this applies to whether you're coaching someone as a teammate, you're coaching someone in your business, at your work, whatever it may be. So listen up based on all ways of coaching. Also, why delayed gratification is what we should be looking for long-term over short-term.

What he enjoyed more, coaching in college versus the NBA, the greatest lessons we can learn through losing and what he really learned through losing. Also, how ego can get in the way of greatness and the mental and emotional ability to rise above. Again, if you wanna learn how to get the most out of people, then make sure you pay attention during this one. Share it with your friends. Tag me at Lewis Howes on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and the link is lewishowes.com slash 689 and let me know what you think. And without further ado, let's learn how to become

a better coach and become a better leader with Rick Pitino. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the legendary coach Rick Pitino in the house. Good to see you, sir. Great to see you. Very grateful that you're here and excited about all we're going to talk about today. You've got an amazing story. You've been coaching for, is it four decades now? Right. And is the stat correct that you've taken teams to the final four over four decades, every decade for four decades? I've taken three different universities to the final four, two different universities to the national championship. They're all different schools,

although two are in Kentucky, Providence College is a small school in Rhode Island. They're all different experiences. Been to seven final fours, and each one has been unique. Really? Does it ever get different? Does it ever feel like easier, or are they all special? The last ones you appreciate more, because it's gotten so big.

You're playing in front of 60, 70,000 people, covered all over the world. In the beginning, the first one I went to, it wasn't as big. But now it's gotten so big that the nerves after the Sweet 16 really pick up. You were coaching when the three-point line was introduced. When was that, 1980? 1987. We led the nation, and you'll get a kick out of this. The first four Big East games we played, I think it was Luke Harnasek,

Aroli Massimino, John Thompson. They didn't make a three-point shot at all. They didn't want to take it. They didn't believe in it. They were totally against the rule. I had a very mediocre team, and I said, the one thing I can do, we're going to lead the nation in three-point shooting. We played the Russians in an exhibition game, and I said,

we're going to take about 12 a game and lead the nation. I said 12 to 15. The Russians in an exhibition game, because they used it at three-point. International play was already using it. They took 32 in that game. No way. So I realized my analytics were way off. I increased it.

I said, we have to take 18 threes a game, make seven or eight, and we'll lead the nation. Wow. And a young man by the name of Billy Donovan was an expert in not only passing it off to people at the three-point line, but making it himself. And we led the nation that year, and it got us to the Final Four. Where did you learn how to become such a great coach?

Was there a mentor you had early on, or was it just by coaching and learning by tons of mistakes the first few years? That's pretty much it, because I was a head coach at the age of 24. Early. I remember seeing that. I was like, man, right after college, you were a head coach. I was Jim Boeheim's first assistant. And then I got the head coaching job at Boston University at 24. I was coaching players 21 and 22 years of age.

How is this possible? Because that wouldn't happen today, right? Maybe like a 31-year-old, maybe. Possibly. And like a D1 school that's really young. Yeah. I got lucky because my college coach was a great player at Boston University, and he recommended me. So I got lucky with the job. I didn't know. It was all trial and error, not until I became the assistant coach of the New York Knicks. Now, I learned all about the zone with Jim Boeheim. He was a great tactician, but I really learned basketball from a scouting,

motivational standpoint when I was assistant coach at the Knicks with UB Brown. The two years I was with UB Brown as assistant with the Knicks really was like going into a basketball library for two years. Now why the scouting motivational side of things? Well, the pros is all about scouting. It's all about preparation.

It's all about motivating the pros because they're playing 82 to 90-something games depending on the playoffs. And they're fatigued. They're constantly fatigued. And you've got to motivate them. And what I call find their motive and turn it into action because they're all different.

You know, Patrick Ewing is much different than Mark Jackson. Mark Jackson is much different than Charles Oakley. Charles Oakley was the physical presence on the team. And I remember calling Doug Collins and asking him about him because we traded for him. And he said, Coach, he'll either kill you or kill for you. Wow. So Oak was going to be my best friend. So you're more of a psychologist and an anthropologist of understanding what makes people tick as a coach.

Very much so. I believe, you know, we all have our way of coaching. I'm a running, pressing coach. Defense is a premium with us. But to me, it's all about getting the most out of someone's abilities. And that's the way I recruit. I don't go after necessarily top 10 basketball players. I go after guys I learned a long time ago,

Mario Gabelli, a financial investor in New York City. I went to him to try and invest Jamal Mashburn, one of my players, money. Helen Mashburn asked me to find somebody to manage his money. And I visited Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Merrill Lynch at the time, and Mario Gabelli, Gabelli Assets was the last person I visited in Rs, J.P. Morgan, Merrill Lynch at the time, and Mario Gabelli. Gabelli asked us, was the last person I visited in Rye, New York. And I tried to sound intelligent.

I was young back then as the Kentucky coach. And I said, where do you get your talent from? University of Chicago? Harvard Business School? Wharton School? He said, no, not really. He took me to a back room where everybody sat. He said, I look for PhDs.

I said, that's strange to look for PhDs in your business. He said, look, I look for poor, hungry, and driven people. I don't care where they go to school. And so I changed it to passionate, hungry, and driven people. I like that. And I go after passionate, hungry, and driven athletes who really want to pay the price to get somewhere. And then I put the team together.

How do you find that PhD? How do you find that within someone? Is it something they say? Is it the way they look at you? Is it the hunger they have? Well, when I bring them in recruiting-wise, I want them to watch us practice. We go really hard.

And some players right away, you can tell they don't want to work that hard. If it's not exciting to them, they're out. They don't want to work that hard. If it's not exciting to them, they're out. They don't want to work that hard. You can tell. You can check what other schools are interested in as well. And they watch practice. What'd you think? I said, boy, you guys go really hard. When they say that, you know they're not for you. When they say, boy, I really, really like that intensity, you know they're for you. Interesting. You create an environment for them so they can experience something. Then you ask them a couple of questions

and see how they're going to respond. Very much so. Now, what if they seem hungry and then two weeks in, a month in, they start to realize, wow, this is a lot more than I thought. Like, I thought I wanted this drive, but you're putting me through the ringer coach

and I'm dead here. Well, a lot of them go through that as freshmen. Freshmen are like rookies in the pros, and they look for ways out because they don't see gratification right away. And these young people today, they want it now. They don't want to start at the bottom and work their way up. They want to start in the middle and get up in two weeks. Right.

So it's— They want to score 25 in the first game. They want to be dunking from the free throw line in the game, everything, right? And it's the entitled generation. Everybody talks about it, the entitlement of this generation. So you have to show them where it's going to take them. You have to point it out to them. Look, this is where you're going to get.

How do you get people to buy into a system or a belief of the whole season as opposed to one game where you're going to score a bunch? How do you instill that belief in people? Well, a lot of them want to transfer right away because they're not getting, you know, they're not starting right away. They're not getting the playing time. And they're not getting, and it's more, it comes today, believe it or not, from the parents. The parents really, they call and say, how come he's not playing? And he's going to play and he's going to be terrific, but he's going to be terrific. But it's going to take a little time.

A perfect example is this young man I coach, Russ Smith. I call him Rusticulous. Didn't play as a freshman. He knew he wasn't going to play as a freshman because I told him. He wanted to transfer right away. And he said, I said, well, I told you you weren't going to play as a freshman. There are better people ahead of you. And the dad, fortunately, knew me real well. As the Knick coach, he said, Rush, you're not transferring. And he asked me,

is he going to play next year? I said, well, he's going to have to change his practice habits if he wants to play. He changed. Now, nobody recruited him out of high school, no big-time schools. Well, he ended up a first-team college All-American. Wow. First team. Sophomore or later? His senior year. Uh-huh. Wins a national championship, goes to China, and scores 61 a game in China. Wow. So he had a fantastic career, played in two Final Fours and won a national championship,

but he wanted to leave as a freshman. Yeah. It's a delayed gratification is what we should be looking for. Yeah, I think you have to understand the journey you're about to take. And it's the last stop is where you want to get to, but you're going to have to work along the way. What's the speech you give the first day

everyone's together? What's the message you send to people about the season and the journey, especially in college? I meet with them individually first, and I tell them, I'm going to get you to where you want to go. And most of them, it's the NBA. Right. And if it's a realistic thing, I say, I'm going to get you there,

but you're going to have to put the time and effort because you're not ready to get there. So I put them through in between classes, I put them through the player development workout. And it's 45 minutes of offensive basketball. It's what you need to become a pro. But you're gonna need it five days a week for as many years as I can that you need to get there.

This is before practice? Before, in between classes. Just like ball ball we'll do shooting three-point shooting wow we'll do um one-on-one moves with the ball without the basketball and by that i mean you'll move without the ball you'll catch it you'll rip it you'll ball fake your shot fake i'll put you through all the drills necessary the fundamentals the fundamentals of becoming a really well-rounded basketball player. Not just an athletic phenom, which a lot of these guys are.

They're probably just athletic freaks. Yeah, great athletes don't necessarily make it anymore in the pros. Because now centers, back when I first started coaching Patrick Ewing, you had Hakeem Elijah one, you had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, you had all the great centers in the game from Moses Malone. Today, those guys, and Shaquille O'Neal is probably the last dominating one. Today, the 6'11", 7-footers are shooting threes. You know, you have Cousins shooting threes.

You have Durant at 6'11", shooting threes. So the game has changed dramatically, and these guys, no matter how tall they are, they want a perimeter game, and that's what you try and teach them. Why do they want that? Because they want to score more? Because they watch it on TV. They want a perimeter game, and that's what you try and teach them. Why do they want that? Because they want to score more? Because they watch it on TV. They want to be kept in the red. It's not as physical.

It's not as demanding in the body. You're not getting fouled every other play, probably. It's more glamorous. Yeah, right. Wow, and when was the last time you were coaching in the NBA? Was it 2000? Last time I was coaching was 17 years ago with the Celtics 18 years ago. And that was a different experience in the Knicks. Yeah. Cause I took over a program that won 14

games, got it to 36, 38, but I was unhappy. I was also president of the Boston Celtics. And that was my big mistake. I shouldn't have taken on that dual role. The president and the head coach. Well, I wasn't ready to be an administrator. I wasn't ready to run an organization. And it took away from my feelings as a coach. I was making trades based on saving money. And as a coach, your job is to win. You can't pay attention to those other things. Yeah.

You've got to be working with the president saying, this is what I need to win. Give me this. Right. Not worried about saving the owner money or the salary cap. That's challenging. Wow. What did you enjoy more, coaching college athletes or professionals?

It's going to sound a little trite, but wherever we won is what I enjoyed. I like that answer. Because we won with the Knicks. We won the Atlantic Division Championship. We won at Providence, Kentucky, Boston University. But we lost with the Celtics. So I didn't enjoy the last part of it. We lost.

When you build a winning culture, the team gets along better. Everybody strives for the common goal of winning. And it all comes together when you win. Your relationships are better with the players. When you lose, it goes the other way on you. Really? Especially with professional sports.

Yeah. What's the greatest lesson you've learned through losing? Well, failure is fertilizer. You know, there's no question about it, to help other things grow. And you understand the steps, where you make your mistakes, and what not to do going down the road. I'll give you a prime example. I coach this young man, Bill Cartwright, with the Knicks. Seven-foot center, great guy.

And we had to have him for this game. We're on a huge winning streak with the Knicks. And I called him. He missed walkthrough. He said, Coach, I'm sick. I've got to stay in bed. I'm hoping to make the game. I said, hey, Bill, you've got to make this game. We need you. And he said, Coach, I just need to relax. I said, OK. Then all of a sudden, I told the trainer. I said, look, we need to get him in, get a shot from the doctor to stop his stomach problems. Get him in early and get him in.

And Bill wanted rest. So you have to be your own messenger. I now sent a trainer to go to him, get him into the city. He's got to travel from New Jersey into the city, 45-minute drive. He wasn't up to it. He wanted to stay in bed. He gets him in. And my whole thing was to see the doctor,

get the right medication to help him feel better for the game. Give him a chance to play the game. Bill took it as I didn't believe him that he was sick because I wasn't my own messenger. I sent to Traynor. Traynor now relays the message. Hey, Bill, coach wants you in a city right away to see the doctor He didn't say why we needed him. I needed your big bill to play the game the whole bed and

so now he gets he's upset and I couldn't figure out why Two games go by I said Bill what what's the problem when I went on the same page here? Mm-hmm He said you didn't believe that I was sick. Of course. I believes I had to have the doctor see you right away so you could play in this game. He said, well, that's not the way I took it. I took it that you didn't believe I was sick and you wanted me to go see the doctor because you didn't believe it. So you have to be your own messenger, and especially in the pros. In the pros, you have a problem.

You can't let it fester. You deal with it right away. Wow. And you don't understand the communication. You've got to let them talk. You have to be a great listener to be a pro coach. Really? You have to because the guy, he's not playing,

and he wants to know why he's not playing. You've got to be a listener, and you've got to explain it to him. In college, you don't necessarily have to do that. You don't have to listen as much? You're sort of a little bit more authoritative. You're the father figure. It's your way. But in the pros, there's so many personalities

and everyone's got an opinion and you need them to play for you as well, so you've got to listen to them. No question. Yeah. Wow. I wonder what happened with the, you don't have to comment on this, but the Kawhi Leonard situation. Does he not communicate or is he not? Well, he's a quiet young man from what I understand.

But it all depends what age group you are. I remember asking Red Auerbach a big question, the legendary coach of the Celtics. I said, Red, we're losing and these guys, they just don't pay attention as well. He says this to me. He said, you know what you should do? What I used to do when I coached Bill Russell and Bob Cousy and Tommy Heinsohn. I said, what's that? He said, you're always sitting the guys down, diagramming plays, moving your magnetic pieces around. Why don't you let them stand up in the huddle and say like I did, hey, Cous, what do you think we should run? Havlicek, what do you think we should run? Hey, Bill, what do you think we should run?

Let them come up with the play. So the next game, we're playing the Lakers at home. I said, I'm going to try it. I sit the guys down. I don't want them to stand up. They're exhausted because we've been in a great game. And I turned to Antoine Walker, who I coached in college, Walter McCarty, Ron Mercer, three guys I had with Kentucky, playing for me with the Celtics. And I said, guys, what do you think we should run? With Del one, so many seconds left in the game, what do you think we should run? Did their jaws drop?

Because they were like, wait, you asked. They didn't answer me. They're staring at me. Finally, I said to Antoine, Twan, what do you think we should run? He says a profanity, which I won't mention. He says, coach, you get paid to coach. We get paid to play. You come up with the damn play. We're tired. No way. So I called Red that night and I said, Red, you want to hear the answer they gave me? He started laughing hysterically. He said, wait till they

get a little older. They won't shut up. They'll all come up with different plays. They'll all want to be the coach. But he says, how the hell will we know? We're tired. You come up with the play. Amazing. So the most challenging place was when you were losing. Yeah, losing in the pros because there's so many things that go into it. When you lose in the pros and you're out of the playoffs, they all go for stats. They want their stats because it's money time, and that's what they're based on at that point. They're not going to make the playoffs. So if you're not in the playoffs, they lose their interest,

and they want their stats. Trying to shoot the ball. It's not as much of a team. Winning is not as important when you're out of the playoffs. I'm curious. As a coach, you're either a hero or the loser, and people are raving about you, or the next day they hate you. As a city or an alumni, whatever it may be, how have you learned to let go of what other people think about you, whether you're winning or losing?

Well, today it's difficult. My son's the head coach in Minnesota, and he reads everything, and his wife reads everything. And it's like injecting. In the media, you mean? Yes. Well, you go on the Internet and you could have, he's in Minnesota, and you could have Wisconsin fans, Ohio State fans, Michigan State fans, get on the Internet and just kill you.

And it's like injecting yourself with poison almost. So you've got to have blinders on. You can't lose focus as a coach. Your job is to motivate the team, put them in the best situation where they have a chance of winning. Give them everything you can from analytics to scouting to preparation to player development. Give them everything you can. And you can't lose focus. You have to have blinders on. If you pay attention to the internet, if you pay attention to what the media is saying, it opens up Pandora's box.

And it's a big negative. And we have right now a president that reads everything and listens to everything and watches everything and then turns around and responds. You just can't be that way as a coach. You have to have blinders on and focus on the game at hand, which is winning. The next game, player development. And if you don't have that, if you start getting distracted like that, you lose your ability to win. How did you learn how to not let it affect you emotionally, you know, during any time during the season?

When you're on a winning streak or when you're on a losing streak And everyone's against you. How do you how do you put the blinders on? Fortunately for me it's happened only once in my life with the Boston Celtics outside of that we've you want we've won Gotta be nice. Well, it's you don't win right away because you you're taking over programs that are down and You understand them and you explain to the to the fans this is what's going to take this is the period of time and you hopefully you you come through earlier than expected right and that's a key but you tell them right up front this is what's going to take some time it's going to take a couple years of recruiting yeah and then if you get the the one great player that turns it around quicker because in basketball football, the one player can turn it around for you.

Really? You know, you get Michael Jordan to come to the Bulls. You get Jamal Mashburn to go to Kentucky. You get the one guy. You get LeBron to go back to Cleveland. And then it takes a couple more players to get involved with that one player. And then you got to turn it around.

You got a team, yeah. Mashburn, he was good. He was good. And he turned around the process right away for us. And interesting footnote to that, Jamal Mashburn's been my business partner for over 30 years. No way. Yeah, we have a company called MAP, which is Mashburn, Avar, and Patino. And we've been together for over 30 years. No way, what do you guys do in that company? Well, we own car dealerships together. That's probably the biggest thing that we have and a lot of other side businesses. Amazing. And you're involved in horse racing

as well. Is that right? Well, Jamal's not involved in that. That's a hobby with me. It's a losing hobby. It's a fun hobby, right? It is. You don't really win much money in that because you're spending so much on the investment, right? You don't win much at all. It's like going into a casino. You may want to play blackjack or craps for a half hour, but you're going to lose. Yeah. Wow. Are you part of the derby then?

Is that what? I was until I left Louisville. I went to like 24 to 25 straight derbies. Wow. And had two horses run in the Kentucky Derby. Wow. Anyone win? One finished fourth and then went on to finish second in the Preakness, second in the Belmont. Wow. And had two horses run in the Kentucky Derby. Wow. Anyone win? One finished fourth and then went on to finish second in the Preakness, second in the Belmont.

Wow. Okay. And so let's talk about Louisville now, because you've got a book coming out talking about your story about what's been happening over the last couple of years. Why did you leave Louisville? Well, I was fired. Yeah. So that's why I didn't want to leave.

That's why I didn't want to leave. Basically what happened is this. A scam artist is trying to negotiate payments from Adidas and these other people in the room. And he's trying to scam these people into giving them money to try and buy these athletes. Right. Adidas to give him money to then pay to the athletes. Athletes' parents.

Parents, gotcha. So he mentions my name as someone who's a big shot with Adidas, and we'll call Pitino up and get him to call Adidas and get us more money. Well, he's BSing them because I would never go for any of that. But the Southern District of New York, they're being wiretapped. The FBI is there. They're the people he's trying to scam. They obviously indict him. And they mention my name and also Jim Laranega, the coach of Miami. And the Southern District of New York puts us in the complaint.

Not a shred of evidence with us, just a scam artist mentioning our name. Well, we get called in, my athletic director, who's the best in the game, gets fired, five minutes before me. I get fired, I'm there 16 years. I'm asked to go back, they said, will you resign? I said, of course not.

I didn't do anything wrong. No explanation, no story or anything. I was told to clean out my office. I said, well, I have to speak to my team. Wow. And I had a very emotional meeting with my team. And by the time I went upstairs, they were changing the locks on my door. No way.

Yep. That quick. That quick. And I will say this. this is not the university of louisville or the university that i love this was a new board of trustees and what i go into in the book is this board this was all started at the governor's level he got rid of the board of trustees at louisville that was very loyal to the ADN, to myself, and the athletic programs. He put in a new group of trustees.

I think out of the 12, 13 people, only two had any affiliation with the University of Louisville. The rest were people like Papa John the pizza guy. And then totally foreign to athletics and to us. And they just, we're bringing in different people, we're doing it over, And then totally foreign to athletics and to us. And they just, we're bringing in different people, we're doing it over, and you're all gone. Wow. There was no explanation, you didn't get a chance to talk about it, or?

Well, the other things happened. You know, I have no problem with anybody who wants to change coaches. Right. But don't accuse me of something that I'm totally innocent of. If you want to change my coaching because of things that happen, I'm fine with that. Perfectly fine with it. A new CEO comes in and he wants to change the people working and they want to bring in

his own people, that's fine. Do it in a dignified way, do it with class, don't do it the way they did it. So the book explains, it's called Patino, My Story. It takes, there are a couple of scandals that we deal with. We talk about the shoe companies and their influence on the college business. It's half memoir of my 40 years in coaching. And it's also dealing with the things I've had to deal with in the last.

The business of college athletics and what's happening in it. I've had to deal with in the last... It's the business of college athletics and what's happening in it. How much of the shoe companies play a major role in the young athletes' lives? The shoe companies aren't corrupt. You know, I don't want to sound like they're corrupt. They go out and they pay Ohio State $200 million.

They pay UCLA... Nike, Adidas, Under Armour. Yes, Under Armour. They pay... Adidas official... They buy these franchises. The schools Adidas, Under Armour. Yes, Under Armour. They pay. Adidas official. They buy these franchises. Yeah. The schools, universities, are their franchise.

So they buy Louisville for $180 million. For a certain amount of years, 10 years or something. Right. They buy Notre Dame. They buy, and that's their franchise. So they're investing $150, $200 million to this university. They get all the marketing products back. They get to market their name, and now everybody identifies Louisville as an Adidas school.

So Adidas wants Louisville to win. So at the lower level, Adidas, the grassroots level, where the high school kids are, they're paying these AAU programs not $150 million, they're paying them $150,000. programs, not $150 million, they're paying them $150,000. And these AAU programs now represent Nike, Under Armour, and Adidas, just like the colleges. So they're being paid at the lower level. The colleges are being paid at the higher level. And anytime you throw around that much money, their interests are in that company. So now everybody wants the Adidas school to win, the Under Armour school to win, the Nike school to win. And it's not about room, board, books, and tuition anymore.

Right. There's a lot of money involved here. And that's what the NCAA is dealing with right now. When this scandal broke, Adidas was paying these athletes. And they were paying the athletes through these scam artists. Yeah. And the scam artists yeah and the scam artists would won a because it was it wasn't it was legal it was more legal i guess through a scam artist than because you couldn't do it through a coach well it's not legal you can't

pay you can't funnel money to an athlete anyway it doesn't matter how many steps it goes it's been going on i never heard it through shoe companies. I heard it through agents. You hear stories. An agent got to a family, paying the family. But you have no proof of this. It's just all gossip, what you hear out there. But never did it come from the shoe company directly until the scandal broke. Really?

So the shoe companies were starting to pay, or this one company was. Adidas. Adidas was paying. Adidas, and it's this one person who right now got indicted, but he said, I'm representing Adidas. What I did is against NCAA rules, but it's not against my rules. You know, his job is to go out there

and sign the best athletes. So he wasn't doing it to benefit the University of Louisville. He was doing it to benefit Adidas. Sure. Wow. How have you been handling all this over the last couple of years? Well, I'm a routine guy. So I'm used to getting up at 5.30, getting in the office at 6.30, doing my four individual instructions, getting my exercise at lunchtime, having a coach's meeting, getting ready for practice, calling the recruits at night. And then all of a sudden it comes crashing down and it's gone. 41 years. 16 years in the same school too. Right. 41 years in coaching

and it's over. And you wake up the next morning and it's 5.30 and you have no place to go, nothing to do. You move to a different town. It was very difficult, but bitterness gets you nowhere. We're all given gifts and it's what you do with it. And bitterness is not a gift. So I'm into motivation. And what I'm going to do now is I'm going to go around to speak to about 20 colleges in September and October, watch them practice, motivate their teams, talk about what teams have to do to about 20 colleges in September and October, watch them practice, motivate their teams, talk about what teams have to do to get to a Final Four, what sacrifices they must make, how you have to play for the name on the front, not the name on the back,

for all of you to get where you want to go. And then talk about how individually they can get where they want to go if they put in the right work the correct work and talk about the right analytics to them it's not just how many points you score per game that the pros are interested in and talk about that with them and start out with people i've coached in the game like patrick ewing's at georgetown mick cron, who was under me, is at Cincinnati. And go visit those schools first, and then open it up to some other places. Yeah. So that's the path right now. That's right now.

The book's going to come out September the 4th. I'll do some things with that for a couple of weeks. And then I do a lot of motivational speaking to companies. But I'm really interested in learning as well. And while I motivate the players and the teams but I'm really interested in learning as well and while I motivate the players and the teams I get to watch practice discuss with the coaches afterwards what I liked and what I didn't like but also it's I get to learn yeah because when you're coaching it from 24 years of age to 64 wow you know you haven't learned as much as you need to learn so now I get

to watch some other coaches what's the thing much as you need to learn so now I get to watch some other coaches What's the thing you think you need to learn the most? Different ways to do things I have my system our defenses our offenses and I get a chance to experience different offenses and different defenses and See what I like see what I don't like gotcha and do you still want to coach again? I'm not sure about that. I Love teaching love motivating, but I'm not sure if I want to coach again. The way I left at Louisville, there's a hurt inside that I can let go, but living in Kentucky, I wanted to die a Kentuckian. Really? I really did. I love living in Lexington. I love living in Louisville and

It was part of my my passion and so it hurt and I don't know if I want to start I'd have to have the right athletic director the right goals. You know, if somebody said You're the guy for us. We want to go to a Final Four, but we want to do it the right way and We believe in your system, it may change my mind. Right. Right. You never know. Yeah. But you don't know if that opportunity is going to happen. Hard to find that. Yeah. And where are you living now? I live half the time in Miami. I'm out here in the San Diego area for a month, and then I'm going to go to New York for four or five months. Okay. You like Miami? Well, it's my home. Yeah. I have two children there. So I get a chance to spend time with them. And that's your legacy. Your children

are your legacy. That's it. Yeah. It's not the amount of games you win. That's true. But you've had an incredible career as a coach too. So there's a lot to be celebrated there. What's the difference in your mind between a great CEO or a great player or a great person pursuing their dreams and someone who misses the mark of achieving greatness? Well, I know what stops greatness and ego stops greatness. I call it edging greatness out, ego. In a spiritual sense, ego is edging God out ego in a spiritual sense ego is edging God out yeah but that's good like that yeah he goes always I'm not talking about confidence you have to be a confident person but ego really gets you

to you think you've arrived you think you know it all you stop learning you stop listening learning and listening are important for great leaders. Great leaders have to listen and they have to continue to learn and surround themselves with people that are better than them. At least in that type of humility, whether they are or not, you have to believe that they are when you hire them, that they have the ability to help you. hire them, that they have the ability to help you. And I've had 31 college assistants move on to become head coaches. Wow. That's because I hire people that I've learned from, really terrific coaches. And I built a bridge and we've all crossed over that bridge together. That's a great legacy as well. But I listened to them. They wanted to listen to me, but I listened to them. They wanted to listen to me, but I wanted to listen to them.

And I think great leaders have to have that ability to listen, learn. And then you communicate from there. And I look at leaders right now that we have in our country. I'm not talking about the president. Everybody else knocks them, so I'm not going to subscribe to that. I'm talking about you can't be a great leader unless you're humble. You have to have humility. You have to be eager to learn, and you have to be willing to listen.

Those are the qualities you have to have to be a great leader. And then you have to be able to motivate your team. How do you motivate? Well, I do it differently than some. I do it collectively, and I do it collectively and I do it individually. I constantly meet with the people. So I get a sense of their purpose. I want to know what they're all about. And that's the way I can turn on their switch. But in order to do that, I call you in. I said, tell me what you're thinking. Tell me where you are in your life.

Tell me where you want to go. And I sit back and I listen. I always say, listen four times to the amount you speak. And then I find out in recruiting, especially, if I listen, what to say and what not to say. And I always remember a great recruiting story. I was with Billy Donovan. He was my assistant at Kentucky. And we went on a recruiting trip. And he kept saying to me,

coach, we get this kid, we're going to another Final Four. We just came off of Final Four. We gotta get this kid. We gotta get this kid. His name was Deuce Ford from Memphis. And I went in there and started speaking about the Roman Empire of college basketball Kentucky.

The Roman Empire. 24,000 people every night. You don't live in a dormitory in Kentucky, you live in the Wildcat Lodge, 56 all-Americans, greatest facilities ever. We're on TV every single game, the Roman Empire. And then 45 minutes later, I noticed that everybody had their legal pad out with questions on it. But I went nonstop 45 minutes talking about this Roman Empire. At the end, I said, ma'am, you must have questions to the mom. Dad, you must have questions, and they answered me one by one, high school coach and player. No, coach, I had seven questions. You've

answered them all. Dad, same thing. The high school coach. No, coach, you explained the style of play, how you're going to play, how you're going to use coach. You explained the style of play how you're gonna play how you're gonna use them You've answered all my questions Even the girlfriend of the athlete now. She didn't have a question. Nobody. We walked out and Billy's we got in the car and said coach. That was brilliant. They bought into it. I said no way Billy I blew how many years were recruiting that young man? He said two. I said, I blew it all in 45 minutes. Wow. He said, why?

I said, I never listened. I never formed the bond with those people. I never built trust. All I did was speak about the Roman Empire. And I never forget Billy's response. He said, Coach, you're reading too many of those motivational books. He said, we're fine. We've been leading with that kid for two years.

We didn't make the cut. Wow. We didn't even make his top five schools. The next day, I went into Brownsville, Tennessee, and Billy said, Coach, we're going to cancel this one. This young man, Tony, is down to Memphis, Tennessee, and LSU. Let's not go in. We're not in his top five. I said, no, let's go in.

I walked in. Two brothers who played Division II basketball. Mom I said, no, let's go in. I walked in, two brothers who played division two basketball, mom, dad, girlfriend, high school coach. I walked in and I said, ma'am, I see from Tony's application that he wants to go into communication. He can't go into communication. He needs to be like his brothers, go into business. He has to learn all about business. She went on five-minute dissertation about that. I asked the two brothers a question. I said, you know, a lot of schools are recruiting Tony as a two-guard.

I'm going to play him as a combo guard, little point as well. They go into, if he doesn't learn to play the point, he's never going to be a pro. Each of them, they speak for 10 minutes. I sit back and listen and looking over at Billy and he's realizing going to be a pro. Each of them, they speak for 10 minutes. I sit back and listen and looking over at Billy and he's realizing I didn't talk about the facilities, didn't talk about the academics, I didn't talk about individual instruction, nothing. I asked the data question. He talked for five minutes. I took out my clipboard to the coach and I said, I watched you play last year. You ran a great three-point play for Tony. Can you diagram that play for me?

He diagrams the play. An hour and a half have gone by, and I haven't talked about anything about the virtues of Kentucky. Nothing. Billy points at his watch and says, we got to go. We got to catch a flight. And the mom looks at me and says, you know, coach, I have to apologize. I haven't even offered you anything to drink or eat. We're going to have a barbecue. Would you like to stay? Now, we have to catch a flight. Right. And Billy goes, I said, we'd love to.

We stay another hour and a half. We miss our flight. We go to the airport. We rent a car. We drive to Lexington. I think it was five hours. We drive from Brownsville, Tennessee. And Billy goes, what was that all about?

You didn't talk about the weight room. You didn't talk about the lodge. Nothing. I said, Billy, we're at the University of Kentucky. They know all about us. All I did was we're in the hunt for that young man. The next weekend he visited with his entire family, everybody in that room. The high school coach said it was the

best visit they had out of the 13 schools that came in. All I did was listen, laugh, and find out what not to say in that meeting. Had the barbecue, had a meal. Deuce Ford, the young man I lost out on, unfortunately blew out his ACL, transferred schools was a good player at lsu i think he went from memphis to lsu turned out okay not a pro tony delk who went on that visit who i listened to in that meeting went on and won a national championship and he was the mvp at a 96 national championship played 11 years in the nba wow all by walking in that room and forming a bond, building a trust by listening and finding out what not to say. Wow.

That's a great story. Now, do you think the key to recruiting is listening? I think you have to find out what they're looking for. What makes them tick, what they're excited about. What, if they want to play right away, if they want to be in a certain style, if they want to have the comforts of being able to get in the car for four hours and go see their son play, you find out if distance is a factor. You find out all things by listening. So when you walk out of that room, you know what you have to overcome. If distance is a factor and

you have to overcome that, you have to sell other things to the families. So you know where you stand by listening. Was there ever a moment when you recruited someone, you got them to sign and they were coming, they're already committed, they're there. And for whatever reason, you knew that you were off in the way that you communicated, not saying you were out of integrity or lied or anything, but you painted a picture or spoke into the things that maybe they weren't thinking about, but you got them to commit and then realized, you know what?

This probably isn't going to work out. Like, because you didn't either sell them or speak into the thing that they wanted the most and then it didn't work out. Was there ever a time like that? I think sometimes you feel bad when you say this.

Am I going to play as a freshman? And I know I have two players that are seniors ahead of this young man. And I say, you're going to have the ability to challenge those two seniors. And if you're better, you're going to beat them out. But deep down, I know they're not going to beat them out. They know my system. They've played in that system. But I am being honest with saying,

you'll have the chance to beat them out. And if you do, you'll play. But deep down, I know you're not going to beat them out. Yeah, did anyone ever do that? Was there ever a guy, a freshman, that did beat them out and they came back and surprised you? No, because our system is very complicated

it's based on a lot of defensive principles that you have to know and Maybe if you're into January you're into league play. Maybe you have a shot. You're gonna get your playing time Well, it's not a start but to beat those two guys out. It's gonna be difficult. Yeah, they know the system so much It's like a rookie quarterback in the NFL hey even though you're you have all all the talent all the skills to probably throw it harder better than the guy ahead of you he knows all the schemes mm-hmm what's more important recruiting or having the right plays in a game well Well, if you recruit great players, you're going to have a great program. If you recruit great players that have a great work ethic,

you're going to have a great program. If you recruit great players with a poor work ethic, you're going to probably be overrated. So you've got to get great players that have a great work ethic. If you can combine those two things, you're going to make it, and you're going to make it big. So recruiting is a big part of it, but you have to recruit people with a strong work ethic in order to get where you want to go. Was there ever a time in your coaching where you were in your own way and you realized, man, I just need to get out of my way and let these guys play?

Sometimes you overcoach. That could be a hindrance to a team. And they're overthinking, and then they're not just loose. Yes, very much so. And you could be, you want to prepare them, but I call it pressure's your ally. Everybody loves pressure. You wake up in the morning, you love pressure. You can't wait to get going.

It's a big game. You're going to get the most out of your abilities, either as an athlete or a coach. You're going to get the most out of it. Stress is your enemy. You want no part of stress. So you got to make sure you don't stress your players out. And you want to put pressure on them, but don't stress them out. How do you create pressure and eliminate stress? Well, when you take, oh, we're going to get ready to play Duke. It's the Elite Eight game. Big game. It is a big game.

And this is go to Final Four. And if you start building Duke up to such a level where the players feel now, now you want to build them up so you realize that. They play hard against them, yeah. You have to reach a certain level to beat this team, but you don't want to build them up so you realize that you have to reach a certain level to beat this team, but you don't want to build them up that much where you don't play a stuff that had what I call darkness of doubt. We can never beat these guys. Yeah, and that's stress there.

So you have to build them up by showing them their abilities, but this is what it's going to take to beat them. We're going to win this game, and this is what we have to do. Don't leave any doubt that we're going to win this game. Wow. Remember the young man whose knee blew out? His leg, shin blew out. Kevin Ware. Right in the middle of the Duke game, his bone came out of his leg.

Almost like Joe Theismann, same injury. When was this? This was 2013, when we won the championship. This is when the guy landed and the leg came out? Exactly, exactly. Was that your player? That was my player. That's right.

I remember now because the floor came down a little bit over there, right? He was right on the floor and you guys were on the bench. So we're all crying. Oh my gosh. We go in at halftime, the score's tied. That was so... And I had to get my team back because we were all crying. I was crying.

We're in the locker room, and I said, look, we've got to get ourselves together. Oh, my gosh. And I had to come up with a story almost to distract my team at this point. And I said, guys, I've never mentioned this to you, but we're within a day of 25 years ago when Christian Leighton had beat me with that shot, Duke, Kentucky. So here we are playing Duke 25 years ago to today. No way.

And I'm telling them this story to get their minds off of Kevin Ware. And I said, I've never talked about that shot. It's bothered me. But here we are playing the same team 25 years later for the Final Four. Same thing at stake. How eerie is that? And now they're all looking at me. I said, but you know what, guys? They beat us with 2.3 seconds when Grant Hill threw that pass to Christian Leighton. He made that turnaround shot. I said, now it's Ty's score, and Kevin's in that hospital. He's going to be fine. But I need to erase Christian Leighton's shot from my mind.

There's only one way. And they're all looking at me. I said, we need to go out there right now and not only beat Duke at the buzzer, we need to go out there and kick Duke's ass by 20, 25 points. We need to go out there and just lay it on them. So now I've got their attention, and now they're fired up. I said, then we're going to go to the hospital. We're going to visit Kevin, and we're going to take him to the final four. Let's go get this.

And we went crazy in the locker room, and we went out there and beat him by 20 points. Oh, my gosh. I love this. Wow. By the way, I didn't erase Christian Leighton's shot. It's still in my mind, but we went out there and beat him by 20 points. Wow. That's an inspiring story. I think also, I remember that now.

Gosh, I forgot that was your team. I remember that and just being so sad for that player because, one, it was terrifying. It was scary to watch. But just like, man, he's doing so well going to the Final Four, but it was great to see the team rally behind that. It probably almost gave a bigger boost to them as well. Like, we've got to

play for our teammate now, right? Yeah, no question. And then they went... But we had to erase, because we were all around him. Oh my God. It was right by your bench. Yeah, I went to lift him up, and then I looked at it, and I said, and now the trainer threw a towel over it, and everybody was crying. Everybody was sick.

And then I had to get their mind off of that sight and experience. How did you get out of that? Well, I knew Kevin was going to be fine, but it was traumatic. It was something I've never seen before. On TV, national TV. I've seen ACLs. Not a bone popping out of a leg. Out of your skin.

Oh, my gosh. That was crazy. Yep. It was right in front of the bench. Right there. Oh, my God. That is a crazy experience. Have you ever seen anything else crazier than that moment?

No. Like on the basketball court, was there anything else? I've had players blow out their ACL, and you've seen that. But nothing in that big a game, in that big a moment. That type of injury. Yeah. And it was funny because the NCAA took that championship away, and they took the banner

down. And I tell my players, my players now are suing the NCAA. Good for them. For defamation, for taking the banner down. I say, guys, sue them. That's fine. But understand, a championship cannot be erased and taken away. They can take a banner down.

They can take the money away, but they can't take your championship away. I said, that's part of history. That's true. So don't ever lose that, and we talk about it all the time. How does that affect you when they took it away? It's unjust because what went on in that dormitory was ugly because it was my brother-in-law's dormitory. I named it after him. I lost him in 9-11.

And it was what went on in that dormitory was not right. It was repulsive. But it was one person doing it behind closed doors. To this day, people say, oh, this person knew it, this person. Six of my players on the basketball team did not know what was going on. My nephews, the son of Billy Minardi, who I lost in 9-11, they did not know what was going on. My assistant coaches said they did not know it was going on, and I did not know what was going on. Security in the dormitory did not know what was going on.

But it was wrong, and we had to pay a price, but not a championship. Why is the whole team, or why is the whole championship taken away for that? Because they think, they said it was an extra benefit, which is absurd. It was a strip party, and it dealt with sex, and it had nothing to do with performance. They weren't taking steroids. It's not a performance enhancing in any way. It's an act that should never have taken place. Sure.

It should never have been. But not taken away at championships. No. Guys can get kicked out, things like that, right? No question about it, but it's, the NCAA, which I'm part of, is run by committees, and this committee said, these acts are repulsive. We're taking as much as we can away from you. And it's absurd.

You can't take championships away from kids who've earned it and deserved it. Can't do that. And I keep telling my players that all the time. I said, you didn't lose it. They took a batter down. Always remember that. You're champions. You've earned it.

You did the work on the court. That's it. That's the way you didn't take money or something like that yeah no what are your thoughts on paying student athletes at the big schools with a football basketball they are paid right they they they get their college scholarship then on top of that if their families can't afford it they get a pell grant they can get up to eight8,000 besides their scholarship. A year.

Yes. Now. Through grant money. Yes. Billions of dollars are made with the NCAA tournament throughout the years. Billions. And the NCAA is just giving a scholarship and that. So here's why families cheat.

So I'm a family and I'm from a poor family. I'm a great athlete. And I believe there's less than 10% of cheating that's going on in college athletics. Less than 10%, in my opinion, throughout my 40 years of experience. All sports. Well, let's just talk basketball for now. I think it's less than 10%. So what happens is somebody goes to the family,

an agent goes to the family and says, look, here's $100,000, here's $50,000. You can go see your son play. Take flights and go see your son play, and I want you to sign with me after it's done. So they know it's wrong. Why would they take it in jeopardy? Well, they say, the school's making millions of dollars using my son.

I can't even get on a plane and go see him play. So I'm going to take it. And they take it, not thinking they're ever going to get caught. They go with that agent. But that's what happens in the game. Well, the Golden Goose is going to game. Well, the golden goose is gonna get killed because now the pros, in 2020, they're gonna take away the one year.

Right, so you don't have to go to college. You don't have to go to college, so you're gonna go from high school. To pros. Now here's the dilemma though. The high school kid today is getting a great education. See, the college kids that go for one year, they take online courses, they're out in seven months. They're not getting an education.

They go to Duke. They go to Kentucky. They go to Louisville. They go to UCLA for less than a year. They're not getting a college education. Right. You're taking the basic classes, just getting by. And they're getting online and their interests of the NBA. But the high school kid has to get 16 core requirements and a certain grade point average to go to college and get a scholarship mm-hmm so he's being educated the high school level to get in to get into college but once you know that you're going to the pros here you stop here's the dilemma I'm a freshman

now in high school and I overrate my abilities, I'm going to be a pro. I'm not going to study. I'm not going to worry about these classes anymore. I'm going right to the pros. On top of it, if I don't make the pros, I'm going to go to the G League, the minor league system, so I'm not going to go anymore. So the colleges are killing the golden goose. They're now going to get marginal basketball players. And who's going to sell, who's going to pay millions of dollars to these schools?

If they're not getting the all-stars, yeah. Everybody's going to the pros. True. So it's going to be a watered-down product. But the colleges, they have to react and be proactive, but they're not. The NCAA is not proactive. What they should do now is I should be able to pay you, let you go market yourself like the Olympic model.

So Rick Pitino, Lewis, let's go market ourselves. We do commercials. We do signings. And we go out there and we make money while we're in college. Yeah. Like any other student can do. In the Olympics. Yes. So I want to go market myself any other student can do. In the Olympics. Yes.

So I want to go market myself. I want to do a commercial on TV while I'm in college playing ball. And I make $50,000. Fine. Now, the wrestler can't do that, but I can do it. So while I'm in college, I'm making money, and I'm not in a rush to get to the NBA. So you have to, and that's Condoleezza Rice said that, they should be able to market themselves.

And that's one of the proposals she came up with. Colleges are not proactive enough to let that happen. Why is that? They're going to kill the golden goose because they got away with it with the one and done. But now if kids go right away to the pros, college is going to be watered down and TV is not going to pay the NCAA millions of dollars anymore. So then on the best players, they're gone.

They're gone. LeBron, Kobe, they're gone. They go right, the great ones go right away. And then the ones that aren't great, but they think they're great, they immediately say say I'm going pro I'm not gonna study they're not gonna be only get accepted into college I'll go in the minor leagues or whatever you're the Jeep it's called the G League yeah and just work there and develop for two years right like going to college

right there's one player this year that committed to Syracuse and instead of going to Syracuse and went to the G G League. Really? Yep. For one year? One year. So you don't have to go to college. You just have to be one year removed from high school. But college has always been a good feeder program for the NBA. Absolutely. You're playing every day.

You're in big arenas. But now they're going to lose that. Wow. So if you were in charge of the NCAA and you had the decision to change it in a moment with how the rules to either players marketing themselves and making money on their own or paying beyond the grants, what would you do? I wouldn't pay athletes. I would let them sell themselves. I would let them make commercials. I would let them do signings, autograph signings.

I would let them, and here's the problem that they're gonna get into down the road. So, Louisville's an Adidas school. What happens if the young man wants to wear Nike? So you're gonna say, okay, you gotta go buy your Nike shoes then. They're not for free. But the contract says your players have to wear Adidas. Crazy. But the kid wants to wear Nike. They haven't run into that

yet. And that's an interesting, the athlete has no rights when it comes to that. And it'll be interesting to see. I said, no, I want to do my own Nike deal. So, and Nike will pay me. It hasn't gotten to that yet. Right, right. But I do think they should be able to sell their likeness. I think they should be able to do commercials and basically stay in college longer then. Right, because you can't sell your likeness in college, right? You can't do anything. You can't do a commercial.

You can't. Can you get a job? You can get a job. There's no time for a job. Exactly. Your full-time job is training exactly and then you don't get paid for that that's where the challenge is right so olympic athletes yeah they can they can go out there right and make money yeah sponsorships other things like that yeah

so why why can't the college athlete that's the answer to keeping your talent and being proactive, is letting them do that. How do you support your mental health when going through a bitter experience in life? How do you support your emotional and mental health to rise above everything that's happened? Well, my children didn't want me to write this book. They said it go dad let it go it's hard and I said no you know I'm gonna write the book because I'm gonna tell the truth mm-hmm everything in this book is the truth yeah as a head coach for 30 plus years I have never given an athlete an elite illegal inducement I don't believe in it. I think it's difficult to get people to work hard when you're given something illegally.

Because they always have something on you. And you really can't be a leader of men that way. That's my belief. So I've never done it that way. And here I'm being accused of cheating. That's tough. And it's wrong, so you have to fight for your reputation.

Absolutely. And I'll leave no stone unturned to fight for my reputation because I know I'm 100% innocent. Now, did I hire the wrong people? I take ownership for that. I take ownership. I've taken a lot of bows throughout the years for the assistant coaches who have gone on to be head coaches.

And I've gotten a lot of credit from my tree of coaches. So I have to take the good with the bad. I've also hired two coaches I shouldn't have hired. Why were they hired? Well, one was a player of mine. And I still believe in him. Something went wrong. I don't know what it was.

He was involved with the strippers and bringing women into that dormitory. He had great parents. He worked his butt off for me. He was a terrific young man. Something went wrong. Somebody got to that young man and derailed him. And it's sad. It's sad for me as his mentor his his leader That he went the wrong way and my heart breaks for him and his parents The other young man, but he was taught to do the right things by his parents and me The other young man was taught to do things the right way Now for he got fired and he actually didn't get accused of doing anything illegal

he was fired for being at the wrong place and being part of something that could have gone the wrong way. So I take ownership for that. I hired them, and they didn't do things the right way. And any time you're the employer, you're the boss, the buck stops with you. Yeah, of course. So I am responsible for them, but they were taught to do it the right way. And I know that. So that's why I'll fight.

Yeah, 40 years of hiring people, there's going to be a couple, you know, people that make mistakes and do the wrong things. Yes, and they're big mistakes that cost a lot of people. You know, when something like that goes down, there are so many, the trainer's family, the equipment manager, so many support people and

their families with children get hurt. It's not me. I've been coaching 40-something years, and the other people I feel so bad for, and the program, you know, I love the University of Louisville, and to see the program get hurt really bothers me. Yeah, it's tough, because it's, you know, it's only a few people that really, you know, made the situation worse for you. But the community as a whole, you know, the people that you know there, I'm sure you still have a good feeling about, right? Oh, very much so. In the city, it's where I wanted to live. But, you know, as you look at it today, you have, on one side, you have the Southern District in New York and the FBI that mentioned my name.

That's an awful thing to do without any evidence. And when you look at, well, why did you do that? When my lawyers said to them, they went and said, you left this man blown up on the side of the road, and he coached the right way. You know what their response was? We deal with collateral damage all the time.

You know what their response was? We deal with collateral damage all the time. And I'm not saying that the prosecutors are corrupt or the FBI is corrupt. I'm saying what are they doing trying to nail assistant coaches? This is the FBI. I mean, do you know what it costs to wiretap someone today? No idea. It can wind up millions of dollars.

Really? Because they have to, so if you're in a conversation with you, you're doing something illegal and now you're in a conversation with your girlfriend or your wife. They have to turn it off. It's called minimizing. They also have to hire a private company to do the wiretapping. They don't do it themselves, the FBI.

They hire a company to do it. So they have, suddenly they have to, this company now will contact the FBI and say, I have something, they'll immediately listen in. But then they're saying, he's on the phone with his girlfriend, they have to minimize, shut it off. It's hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they will wiretap in these assistant coaches

and these scam artists for two or three years. Wow. We're wasting the skills of the FBI on assistant coaches in college basketball? This is what we're trying to do with all the problems we have in this country right now? Crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. What was it, Colorado?

What's going on there? Right. I mean, that's what the FBI should be involved in, not nailing assistant coaches. Sure, sure. For giving kids money. Well, I want to end on a positive note. A few questions left for you, if that's okay.

Sure. Well, let's just say it's a championship game for you. You've got a new team. You're with a new school. You're not sure if this is going to be your last year. Maybe you coach a few more years, but you're not sure. Either way, you've got two minutes before the game starts. Your team has worked hard for you the whole year.

They've done everything you've asked for. They've made some mistakes, and some guys you've had to discipline over the season, but they've come back together, they've rallied together, and they're at the championship. What would you say in those minute to two minutes before the game? Before the game, before we take the floor. You've already done warm-ups and everything, whatever it may be.

Okay, we've gone back in the locker room. Now this is your time. We've said our team prayer. Yes. And I would tell them how proud I am of them. I know the struggles. I know the work it took to get to where we are today.

But now it's time to win it all. I said, it's not time for the silver medal. It's not time for the bronze medal. It's time for the gold.

It's time for us to stand on that podium on that top level and put that gold medal around our neck. It's time to us to stand on that podium on that top level and put that gold medal around our neck. It's time to win the championship. It's your time. Go out there and play as if it's your time.

Enjoy every minute of this basketball game because when it's over, you're going to be champions. And I want you to remember every minute of this game. I don't want you to just think about standing on the podium. I want you to cherish every minute of this game. I don't want you to just think about standing on it. I want you to cherish every minute of this game and go out and win it. And let's stand on that podium together and put that gold around our neck. Get the chills. Love that. And I hope I get that moment again. I miss it so much being in the locker room.

Wow. So I try to channel it in different directions now. Sure. It's not the same, but yeah. A coach is, the thing I miss most about coaching after 41 years, it's the ability to help the young athlete get to where they want to go. We don't win games. Coaches don't win games. Right. We prepare, we coach, we may set up the play for that player to take that shot, but we don't make the shot. We can set the play up. The athlete makes the shot.

So I miss those moments. Very much so. How are you able to recreate that? Are you helping mentor young athletes still into going into the pros or other things that you can do to help people? Well, I spent a year right now writing a book and doing other things. But this year I'm going to go out there and try to help other programs, help ex-assistant coaches, and spend a year traveling, watching, observing, and I said earlier, learning and listening.

But I follow about 30 different programs right now. My son's the head coach of Minnesota, so I follow every minute of every game. Wow. I try not to get too involved with him right now because he wants me to be his dad, not his son. Not the coach of him, yeah, yeah. And has it tainted your love for the game at all? No, my passion is greater than ever. Really?

Yes. That's the good thing about it. I can't let the Southern District of New York, a board of trustees at Louisville, sour me. Can't do it. I've got to let bitterness go. I know there's good people that believe they're doing the right things.

And if I'm collateral damage, I'm collateral damage. I'll live with that. But I've got to get on with my life in a positive way. Yeah. And who would you say are the one or two collateral damage. I'll live with that. But I've got to get on with my life in a positive way. Yeah. And who would you say are the one or two most influential mentors in your life right now? Well, like I said, I started at 24. So I've taken a different path than most people.

There are people in the game I respect so much. I have great respect for Bill Belichick in football. I love what he does, the actual coaching, the teaching part. I love what he does. I love how he creates that winner with the Patriots every single year. So there are so many college coaches out there that I admire, so many pro coaches I admire. Popovich with the San Antonio Spurs. I love the job that he does with that team because he runs great things offensively and defensively. He runs

great things. I love the way the Warriors play. I love to watch them. I would pay to watch Steph Curry play and Durant. I like their games very much. And the college coaches I admire, so many of them I admire. Even in the league, I admire them. I have a lot of favorites out there. I don't necessarily have any mentors because I'm 65 now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe younger mentors. There might be some younger.

Yeah. I'm going to find out this fall who they are. On your rounds. Who were the players in the last 10 years that you played against in college that have shocked you or surprised you in the pros? So you're like, yeah, they were good, but, man, they exceeded your thoughts about how they would do. Well, I think Steph Curry's one.

I didn't expect him to. Probably every coach thought that, right? Yeah, we knew he's a good player. Did you play against him? No, just watched him on TV at Davidson. We didn't play against him. But there are athletes out there. We played against Shaquille in college, and I had a very mediocre team,

and he had three NBA players on his team. We beat them. It was my first year at Kentucky. And I knew Shaquille would be good. I didn't know he'd be that good. You know, there's so many guys that there's so much talk about the greatest of all time, you know, the GOAT. And Michael and LeBron, everybody talks about which one's better.

I'm an Ohio guy, so you know where I'm going. Well, they always go with the most, the contemporary one, the current one. Yeah. with the most, the contemporary one, the current one. So LeBron is one of the greatest physical specimens I've ever seen on a basketball court. Awesome talent. Michael's one of the most graceful specimens I've ever seen in a basketball court. And I could never say which one's better. I've been in a league with both of them and I can't say which one's better. They're both great athletes, great specimen, graceful, powerful, both highly intelligent basketball players. Vision. They have it all.

They have the intelligence. They have the athleticism. They have it all. But I would put another guy in the same category with both of them. Who's that? That's Magic Johnson. See, I was coaching at a time with Magic. I've seen Magic play.

He's 6'9", legit. And when Kareem got hurt, Magic moved from the point to the center position and carried his team to a championship playing the five spot. Wow. So how many now? LeBron's probably capable of that, but Michael's not. Michael can't play the center position. So I would put them, those three together as the greatest of all time. And that's not to take away from the greatest winner of all time, Bill Russell or Kareem or

any of those guys, Kobe. Kobe's awesome. But to me, those three are dead even. The three of those guys are dead even in my estimation. Now LeBron's with Magic. Yes. What's your thoughts on that? I think LeBron is going to make the Lakers a big winner. But he needs help because he's in the West. See, LeBron can do it in the East. But you need a lot of help.

The Warriors. The Warriors. Houston. He's going to need a lot of help. The Warriors. The Warriors. Houston. He's going to need a lot of help. I don't think he can, as great as he is, I don't think he can surpass Houston. Definitely can't surpass Golden State. Wow. But I think everybody knows that, who they're going to get to play alongside him.

But at least it's going to be exciting for Laker fans. Wow. Amazing. This is a question I ask at the end to everyone. It's called the three truths. So I'd like you to imagine it's your last day on earth. You live to as long as you want, but eventually you got to call it quits. And you've achieved everything you want to achieve as a coach, as a father, as a human. You do what you want. And you have no regrets.

You do it all. But for whatever reason, all the books you've written and the speeches you've done and conversations you've had, you've got to take it all with you when you leave Earth. But you get to write down on a piece of paper the three things you know to be true about all your lessons and experiences of life. And this is what people would have to remember you by in physical form, right? This piece of paper, three lessons, three truths. What would you say are yours? To leave, to leave behind. Yeah, this would be like the message you would leave behind. Three different lessons that you would share from what you've learned, your experiences,

the things you know to be true that you want other people to know? Number one would be nothing can take the place of family. Family's always first. That when you leave, your love for your family is number one. No question about that. The second thing I would leave is you're never going to reach any goal that you want to reach without a strong work ethic.

You can't cheat your work ethic. It has to be your common denominator. And the third message I probably would leave behind is it's not worth it unless you're humble about it. Humility is really, really the number one gift that you get. And if you're not humble about it, then you're never going to, it's never going to be worthwhile. So those are probably three things that stick out right away. Yeah. Spontaneously.

That's great. I want to acknowledge you for a moment before I ask you the final question, Coach, for your humility, for your ability to share, for your ability to learn, to listen, and for giving so far. I think you're going to coach again. So for me, giving four decades of your life so far to educating young human beings into becoming better humans. Obviously, you're coaching basketball, but you're teaching life and teaching how to be a better human being. teaching life and teaching how to be a better human being. And it's incredible the amount of people you've impacted over the decades. And I hope that I'm able to impact as many people the way you have as well. So I acknowledge you for all that you've done, the inspiration that you are.

Your book is out very soon, but you guys can pre-order it right now. You can go to Amazon, you can go to Barnes & Noble. It'll be out soon, but you can preorder it. And are you on social media by any chance? Are you on? I'm going to have a podcast myself during basketball season talking just basketball. Awesome. Talking how teams are progressing and have coaches on and try to update it each week with different coaches from the past as well as the present. That'll be inspiring.

I'm sure people would love that. What else can we do? How else can we support you besides get the book? And is there anything else we can do? No, the book for me is just to tell the truth about not only the good things, but the bad things. I want the truth to be told the right way. And that's the most important thing.

That's why I call it my story, because it is my story. I like it. I like it. Make sure you guys pick up a copy of the book. We'll check out the podcast when it's out. We'll have this all linked up. But the final question is, what's your definition of greatness? Well, greatness for a coach is different than greatness for a business person or greatness

for an athlete. My definition of greatness is when you can lift others up around you to levels that maybe they didn't think they could get to. That's greatness. You have to define it as a coach. And as a coach, it's about lifting others up around you. And that's what a coach does. Yeah. Coach, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. That's what a coach does. Yeah. Coach, I appreciate it.

Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this episode. lewishouse.com slash 689 for the full show notes, video interview, and all the other information about how to connect with Coach Rick Pitino. Again, leadership is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way, said John Maxwell. And we go through lots of different challenges and adversities through every season of life. And it's what we learn through the challenges, through the failures, which make us a better

leader in our lives, in our relationships, in our health, in our businesses, in our careers. And that's what this is all about. It's constantly elevating our game to reach our ultimate potential and continue to elevate each step along the way. If you enjoyed this, let me know at Lewis Howes over on social media. And we've got some massive interviews and episodes coming up. So many of you are telling me what you've enjoyed about these past interviews and episodes. The one with Dr. Joe Dispenza has been a huge hit recently. The one with Humble the Poet.

The one with Leslie Odom Jr. We've also had the one on managing anxiety and overcoming overwhelm. That's been a huge hit for so many people. So if this is your first time here, make sure to check out

some of the previous episodes over the last couple of weeks. And so many people. So if this is your first time here, make sure to check out some of the previous episodes over the last couple of weeks and so many episodes that we've got here. We're constantly elevating and bringing this to another level for you. We've got some big interviews and episodes coming soon. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you. Bye.