The School of Greatness - 697 Rachel Hollis: How to Build Confidence, Believe in Yourself and Become Your Best Self

Episode Date: September 24, 2018

JUST KEEP GOING. There are three fears we struggle with the most: The fear of failure The fear of success And the fear of judgment. The center of all of those fears is “I am not enough.” When we get past that, we can step into anything. People-pleasing is an issue a lot of us face. It’s crazy how we can allow one person’s opinion of us to hold us back. That’s why I really enjoyed my conversation with a bestselling mom who overcame her need to make other people happy: Rachel Hollis. Rachel had been working for over a decade on her career, her marriage, and her brand before her career took off. She wrote six books that hardly sold any copies. Her seventh book became a hit. Her life changed with one viral post that created the momentum for her bestselling book. Girl, Wash Your Face has over a million copies sold and is growing every week. She is host of the RISE Podcast and co-host of the RISE Together podcast. She is a mother of four who was named one of the "Top 30 Entrepreneurs under 30" by Inc. Magazine. She is an amazing example of the power of not giving up. So learn how to follow your dreams and live for yourself (even if you’re a mom) on Episode 697.

This is episode number 697 with number one New York Times best-selling author Rachel Hollis. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Richard Branson said that every success story

is a tale of constant adaptation, revision, and change. I want to ask you, where are you at on your success story? What are you telling yourself every single day? What thoughts do you allow to come into your mind? Are they positive or negative? Do you have more positive thoughts than negative thoughts? Do you believe you're actually capable of achieving something that you desire, that you want, that you love? Or do you believe you're not worthy? Today, we've got a powerful guest on. Her name is Rachel Hollis. She is a number one New York Times bestselling author of the book, Girl, Wash Your Face. It has taken over the world this year, sold over a million copies this year alone, continues to just make a massive impact on the hearts of so many women who read this.

She is a TV personality, top motivational speaker. She has two of the top 10 podcasts in the world right now and runs the Hollis Company. She was named by Inc. Magazine as one of the top 30 entrepreneurs under 30, and she is deeply passionate about empowering women in business. Known as the Tony Robbins for women because of her motivational high energy style, she has a unique ability to empower a female audience, motivational, inspirational, and always approachable. And I had an amazing time connecting with her today. We talked about the difference between a cheerleader and a coach and why we all need coaches. We also talked about why even though you're not good enough when you first start, you must keep going. Also, how it took years of therapy before she would

stop downplaying her business and stop playing small. Why sometimes having an anti-hero is just as powerful as having a hero. And her greatest value is growth. And her mission is to provide women with the tools to grow and reach their greatest potential. This is going to blow you away. Make sure to take a screenshot of this. Tag myself and at Ms. Rachel Hollis on Instagram with the link lewishouse.com slash 697 to share with your friends. Again, tag both of us on Instagram right now or throughout this interview if there's a moment that you like that resonates with you. Share it on your Instagram story and let us know that you are listening.

Again, a big thank you to our sponsors. And I am so pumped about this one. Again, she has been taking over the world, taking over the book world, the podcast world, the speaking world. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Rachel Hollis. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got Rachel Hollis in the house, who's got an incredible book. Girl, wash your face.

How's it going? Good to see you. Man, I'm tripping out. I'm totally tripping out. I can't believe I'm sitting here with you right now. It's fun, right? Yeah. It feels like a really big deal.

The Pacific Design Center is right there. We're in this room with this wall. Love wall. Yeah, it's tripping me out. Well, everything's probably been tripping you out all year because you've worked for over a decade on your brand and your career and your life. Yeah. Marriage, everything. You've written six books that really didn't do much.

Yeah, totally. And then you came out with a book called Girl, Wash Your Face, which just sold a million copies, which is a huge accomplishment. And it sold it in eight months or something? Eight months, a book. What were the books that you sold before? How many copies would you sell? Oh, gosh. I think my first cookbook probably sold 15,000. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot of books. That was the book before this.

Yeah. Oh, that was the book before this? That was the book before this. What about the first book? before this. Yeah. Oh, that was the book before this? That was the book before this. What about the first book? Oh, gosh. Well, so my first book is a fiction book called Party Girl, based on the years that I spent as an event planner. And that one has done pretty well. That one sold over 100,000. That's a lot of books. But it sold over 100,000 like over years and years and years. But never have I, I didn't even know to dream the kind of success that this has had. Yeah.

Because how, I didn't even have a reference point for it. Because a year ago you said you had like 40,000 followers maybe or something small. Yeah, at Instagram I think I had 40,000. And now you have over half a million. Half a million on Instagram. And it's growing like. Facebook has over a million. Yeah, it's crazy.

And it's just been taking off because of this one piece of content. Yeah, I mean, well, so incidentally what really started this ball rolling was a few years ago. I don't know if you know this about my story, but I had a picture go viral. Do you know this story? What photo is it? Me in a bikini. No, you don't know this. Okay.

So Dave and I were in, Dave, my husband, we were in Mexico. I had just run the LA Marathon. So it was like, number one, this is the best shape I'm ever going to be in in my whole life. We got a few days away from our kids. We go to Mexico. Truthfully, I'd had tequila. I had had a shot of tequila, and I had just gotten this new bathing suit. And the top had a monogram.

My family's Southern. Southern women love a monogram. At the time, I had about 5,000 fans on social media. And I thought, oh, I have a bunch of other moms. Like, I'm going to show off this bikini top. And I'd never taken a picture in a bathing suit before. And so I'm like, you do that thing like Instagram husband, like, honey, take a hundred pictures. We'll find one. And so he takes pictures. And the very last picture is, I'm laughing because I feel like the most awkward. I see the picture and in the picture, I have stretch marks all over my stomach

because I carried three babies. And so I start to zoom in. You know that thing you do on an iPhone where you, like, zoom in? I'm going to cut it. And then I'm like, you know what? All the women who follow me are moms. They probably have stretch marks too. So I end up posting the photo, and I wrote something about the fact that I wear a bikini.

Like, I wear a bikini, I have stretch marks and I'm proud of this body and every mark on it because there are so many women I know who would kill to be able to carry children and they don't have that blessing. And so I'm gonna rock a bikini because this is what my body looks like. So I post the picture and this was back,

my Instagram's connected to my Facebook and I posted it goes on both. And I remember we're sitting by a pool and at the time I like went over to see, you know, you like make sure it posted okay. And it had a hundred likes in like a minute. Wow. And I had never, I mean, that's nothing,

but back in the day that was massive for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like, wow, that's crazy. And maybe the algorithm changed. Yeah, yeah. And then like five templates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I'm like, wow, that's crazy. Maybe the algorithm changed. Yeah, yeah. And then like five minutes later, it had 1,000. Holy cow. And then it just, and we sat by a pool.

I've never experienced anything like it in my life. We sat by a pool in Mexico, and we would just watch this photo go viral. And it was, you know, hundreds of thousands. And like immediately, people started, they would go to their bathroom, and they'd take a picture of their stretch marks. They're posting their stretch mark photos. And it went everywhere. Every, when I say that every press outlet in the world picked it up everywhere. And I got to tell you of all the things that you want to go viral, that's probably not it. Like that was very overwhelming. Uh, but it really

was the first time that I saw the power of just like being yourself and how much women resonated with me being myself and showing all of it, not just the pretty stuff. And that was really what started to shift and change my career from like food blogger to stepping into this space. And I think this book is sort of the modern representation of what started like with that bikini photo. Wow. It's kind of like that photo on steroids. Absolutely. I was like, I'll talk about all the things. I'll talk about my stretch marks and back fat and peeing my pants and like all of the horrible, like you don't have kids, so you've never walked through this with a woman, but like all of these horrible things that your body goes through. Yeah. I'll just talk about it all.

Because I feel like if I raise my hand and if I say, I've gone through this, I've walked through this trauma, or I've done this thing that's shameful or embarrassing, if I talk about my stuff, then I hope it gives you permission to talk about yours. Wow. Yeah. And so that was two years ago, three years ago? That's been a few years, yeah. 2015, I think is when that happened. Okay, three. Wow. Yeah. And so that was two years ago, three years ago? That's been a few years, yeah. 2015, I think is when that happened. Okay, three years ago. Yeah.

And then you just started to, the idea for this book came right after that, or? No, so I was still writing fiction, and then I started as a food blogger, so I had some cookbooks in there. So you were an event planner, a party event planner, you wrote fiction books, and you were a food blogger. Yeah, all the things.

Well, I am a massive book nerd. Like I read crazy amounts of books. And I think most book nerds who also have to do any sort of writing for a living, so I was writing this blog, start to daydream about what it would be to write their own thing. So I had started to dream about books and I read fiction, so I wanted to write it. And that's where I got started in the space. And I was actually, I was on a trip to Ethiopia with, do you know Jenna Hatmaker? She's a big. I just started following her.

Yeah, she's great. You'd love her. But I was on a trip with her to Ethiopia. And we're sitting on a bus. And she is massively, massively successful in the nonfiction space for women. And she was like, hey, sis, what's your next book? And I was like, oh, okay, get ready. So there's people and they're superheroes. And I started describing my next fiction book. And she's like, no, no. What's the book? What would you tell

women if you could tell women anything? And I never thought about it, ever. I never considered writing nonfiction. She said, what would you say if you could say anything? And I knew the answer because I had had years as an influencer with women all over the world sending me DMs. I'm sure like you get DMs and emails and all of these things asking, how do I save my marriage? How do I get my son to stop using? How do I lose the last 50 pounds? How do I, how do I, and what I want to say, which never felt appropriate to say is stop reaching out to a stranger on the internet and fix your own life. I had never encountered anyone like loving women, but also challenging them. Most writers and speakers, female writers and speakers in this space tend to be more of a

cheerleader. And I'm not a cheerleader. space tend to be more of a cheerleader. And I'm not a cheerleader. I'm a coach. Like a cheerleader roots for you no matter what. A coach challenges you to see something in yourself that maybe you don't see. And so she's like, what would you say if you could say anything? And I was like, and I literally, I started doing this with her. I'm like, girl, like get off the floor Like, girl, stop crying. Girl, get a hold of your life. Girl. And she says, girl, wash your face. And I wrote the first chapter on the plane ride home from Ethiopia. Wow.

Yeah. So she gave you the title. Yeah. And it's dedicated to her. I saw that, yeah. Yeah. Because she's the champ. I also love that story because I think it's such an incredible example. It was pivotal for you because you had an idea of doing something completely different. Totally. And then she was like, no, that's not

the right fit. Yeah. Which is like, you are doing this for me in real time. And so many people in this space are doing like, you're looking behind you at people who are coming up and you're like challenging them to see something in themselves. This woman is a leader in this field and many people would be challenged by the idea of like oh let me help like the next generation to so I just think it's so incredible that uh she wasn't there is this like scarcity mentality or this me me me and she was like no let's and now of course I've heard like so many people like yeah Jen did that for me too she yeah so I want to be I want to be like her that's pretty cool. Yeah.

And that was a couple years ago. Yeah. On a trip. On a trip to Ethiopia. Came home, I wrote that first chapter, sent it to my agent. I was like, I know we haven't done anything like this before, but see what you think. And we sent it out and it was the first time ever in my career where people fought over a book.

Really? You know what it's like. Sure. Well, maybe you've only ever had people fight over a book. I've been sending something out and it's like crickets. And it was the first time. But this one, everyone wanted it. Really? Yeah. The first line of the book and the first chapter that I started, we sent out was, I peed my pants last week. That's literally the opening line of the book. And so I think it was in an Instagram perfect world, there weren't a lot of women who were like, no, I got all the things.

Let's dig into them. Wow. It's interesting because I think you know Jenna Kutcher, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to Tennessee with her in a couple weeks. We're taking it. Yeah.

She's amazing. She's the best. We're having a girl's trip. She's amazing. But she kind of had that similar moment earlier in the year where she did a photo. Yes, with a post about her husband. That went viral. Yeah.

And her whole career business life has changed because of one image, one post. Same thing that happened with you with that image at that time. And this book at this time changed your life. You're saying how you can't even go to the grocery store without moms coming up to you and being like, you changed my life. Stalking you at hotels at midnight and doing all these things. Learning to navigate it. But what most people probably don't know is that you really didn't make much money for the first five, six, seven years of your business, right? You were just working extremely hard, coming up with content.

You wrote multiple books. They weren't making a lot of money, it sounds like. No money, no attention. No followers. Yeah. I always had a community of money it sounds like getting money no attention this is no followers yeah I always had a community but it was small and I wasn't obsessed with the idea of how do we like I get this question all the time like how do I grow my social following I'm like serve the audience you have add value to the audience you currently have I I have the community I have because they keep talking about me to other people. Sorry, that's a side note.

But for years and years, every single penny that I made, I invested it back into the company. Yeah. Because I knew that I wanted to scale, and I knew I wanted to build something bigger. And we had revenue, but not enough for me to take a salary. And I was really blessed in that we could live off of my husband's salary for a long time, which we did. This is the first time in years, years and years that I have put money. Like I put a check in my bank account for the first time two months ago and I cried like a baby because it wasn't, I'm so blessed that we were able to live off of Dave's salary, but there was something like psychological for me about being able to

contribute. Like I put money in our bank account. I don't know. It was a big deal. So yeah. So I just kept reinvesting and it really has felt like, I don't know, like a snowball rolling down the hill. Like all of a sudden it just took speed and went crazy after like pushing it for years and years. But you had a lot of people saying no and a smaller audience for a long time. And you came out with book after book and speech after speech. And it wasn't like this overnight thing.

No, gosh. Which a lot of people think it is. Like, oh, she just came out with a book and it's crushed and a million copies. And I should be able to do that right away. Yeah, yeah, no way. It like drives me insane, actually. Because there's a little part of me,

people have, as their books have come out, their first books, they're like, It drives me insane, actually, because there's a little part of me. People have, as their books have come out, their first books, they're like, oh, I hope it does. It's a New York Times list. I hope it does this. I don't say it, but in my head I'm like, how dare you? How dare you? You're aiming at the wrong thing. My hope as a writer, and still is, is I hope there's one person that it resonates with.

You know that feeling? I know you do, where you like go to an event or you have a signing or you get to meet someone who's been affected by your work and you're like, oh, it was for you. It was for you. If you were the only person that got value out of this, that was worth it. So I just feel like, no, don't get me wrong. I was super freaking happy when it made the list. Like that's a big deal. But if that's what you're chasing, you're here for the wrong thing because was super freaking happy when it made the list. That's a big deal. But if that's what you're chasing, you're here for the wrong thing because you don't know when or if you will ever get the accolades that you're hoping for. Writing for me, that's my creativity. That's my craft. I think you write or you take pictures or you draw or you dance because you have a God-given ability to do that. I feel like

that's, you know, that's our potential. Like our potential is our gift from our creator. And I can't think of anything more horrible than like that just dies inside of you because you're too afraid to do anything with it. So I'm like, I'm so grateful that it's resonated the way that it has. Yeah. What do you think has helped it take off? You know, you launched it. You put it out there. Did it take off in the first two weeks? No. Or was it kind of like, was there a few different moments, like that photo you posted a few years ago, that that was a big spike and then it snowballed into this and into that?

This is 100% word of mouth. I've never seen anything like it in my life. And if you go, I think it has over 75,000 hashtags on Instagram right now. This is just women telling other women to read it. I'm so grateful for my community because they are who made this successful. This was not, like, you can't as one person, you know, do it. And we didn't have a budget to put against it. It was just like, hope it works.

Yeah. She didn't have a big campaign and press and media that was a that was a it was the first time that i'd done a book like this so there was no proof of concept you know the publisher was like well we hope it works uh they didn't do much to push it out necessarily and they're like the team is incredible and they worked really hard but you know how it is like depending on what your name is and how much clout you have, you get certain levels of help or money or whatever. And we just kept talking about it. And I wanted so badly to make the list, like so badly.

I did. I did. Truthfully, I really did. I did, too. I listened. You did a podcast, like, right before mine came out where you were like, here's what I did. I was, like, taking notes in there. So I was listening to all the things.

taking notes in there. So I was listening to all the things. And the day that, so a week later, so your book comes out on Tuesday and a week later on Wednesday is when you know. And I knew that that was the best chance I would have because of pre-order. Yeah. First week, pre-order sales. You didn't hit it, did you? Didn't hit it. How did that feel? It's just like heartbreaking, right? It was truly heartbreaking for me. I cried so hard. Oh, my gosh. I cried so hard. And the thing was, I had told, I never had called my shop publicly, ever. Because, you know. I'm going to hit it.

I said, I didn't say I'm going to, but I said, I've wanted this since I was a little girl. And then the community, like, they took it on their back. And they're like, we're going to help you make the list. And so now I feel embarrassed. And I feel like I've let them down. And so I have a good cry, just get it all out. And then I thought, wait a minute, I spend my life telling other women that it's okay to fail. I spend my life telling them to take big shots, even if it means that they fall on their face. This is like, this is such a gift right now because I get to practice it in real time. I called my shot.

I didn't make it, but dang it, I'm going to stand back up tomorrow and I'm going to keep going because that's not what this is about. And then I think I made it week 11, so that's a while. Crazy. And they called my office. I was there by myself. They called my office, and I answered the phone, and my publisher, like the head of the

publisher was on the phone. He said, Hey, I'm here with Jeff, who's the head of marketing. And I thought, well, I've either made the list or I'm about to be fired. I don't know if you could fire an author, but it might be happening. And they were like, we just called, we're looking at the New York Times and your name's on the list. And I couldn't like, I couldn't feel it. I couldn't feel that emotion. And I was like, thank you. Thank you. And I got off feel it. I couldn't feel that emotion. And I was like, thank you, thank you. And I got off the phone with him. And I called my husband at work.

And I made his assistant pull him out of a meeting. He thought someone was dead. And he got on the phone. And I was like, I made the list. And he started freaking out. And his emotion broke my emotion. And I was like, I fell to the floor. I was crying.

This is very dramatic. Oh, man. But if you've had something in your life. And dreamed was like, I fell to the floor. I was crying. This is very dramatic. But if you've had something in your life, which dreamed of, yeah. And for me, it was publishing. Like I always thought if I just, if I could just finish a book, someone will publish it. And then I did finish my first book and everyone turned it down. And so there was this part of me, I think that thought it's like, Oh, you're not actually a sucky writer. You're not like, we're sorry that we gave you a stick. Like, you're great. I was reading something the other day about

like all these stories, like Michael Jordan or different people where it's like, he got cut from his varsity basketball team or all the stories of people who got turned down the first time. And that there's this idea that Michael Jordan, like that the guy got it wrong, that his coach got it wrong. Or that with my first book, like the publishing world got it wrong. No. You weren't good enough. I wasn't good enough yet. I wasn't good enough yet.

And he wasn't good enough yet. And we had to keep doing the work to get to a place where we could be here. And that's the thing that I think people miss is like you have to keep going. You don't even know who you're going to be. You don't know who you're going to be half a decade from now or 10 years from now because you stop. Why am I successful and other people who want the same things and started at the same time aren't? Because when they heard no, they listened. I just kept going.

I just kept going. Boom. Boom. I like that. Oh, man. I feel like if I got a reaction from you, I must be doing something. K kept going. I just kept going. Boom. Boom. I like that. Oh, man. I feel like if I got a reaction from you, I must be doing something right. Kept going. And the thing that you did, you kept going with a family.

You had, what, two kids, three kids by then? A couple years ago. You have your fourth kid now. And what do you say to moms who have one kid or two kids or multiple kids about what's possible for their dreams? Well, I think— If they feel overwhelmed, overworked. Yeah. Their face is really dirty.

Yeah, they need to wash that face. They can't wash it because every day there's another poop stain on their face from their kid that they've got to wipe in a diaper. Yeah, yeah. Throwing up on them. You have like a really twisted image of what parenting is. Poop and throwing up all over you. When you're covered with poop all over your face. No, no. I think the first thing that I would love for women to understand, especially moms, is that you're allowed to have a dream for yourself that doesn't involve these babies. And not only that, I think that's the point. I think that's the calling. I think that's why you're here. I think that it's possible to be both an incredible mom and an incredible wife, if that's your thing, and to pursue your version of more.

I think that there are plenty of women for whom being a stay-at-home mom is the goal, and that's incredible. I think you should just want to be the best version of a stay-at-home mommy can be. But if you have something else, if you have the tugging on your heart that like, what if I built an app? What if I started a business? What if I went back to school? What if I got out of debt? What if, what if, what if? I think that what if, that's your potential. You can't get it out of your heart because you're not supposed to. You're supposed to pay attention to that thing. So you're allowed to have a potential. You can't get it out of your heart because you're not supposed to. You're supposed to pay attention to that thing. So you're allowed to have a dream. You're allowed to chase something, even if it doesn't make sense to anybody else. In fact, maybe especially if it doesn't make sense to anybody else.

You are in real time showing these babies what it is to be a grown-up, what it is to be a woman, what it is to be a beingup, what it is to be a woman, what it is to be like a being with your own hopes and dreams and desires. And not only that, but these kids are going to grow up. And then what? And then what? When they leave and your whole dream was to be a mom. Yes. Which is like great. But then what are you going to do with the rest of your life? Yes. Like so many women, the number one thing I hear at book signings is women who come up and they say, it's moms. They'll say, I've lost myself. I don't know who I am.

I don't know. I don't even know how to find my why. I don't know what my passion is. I don't know. And I'm like, who were you before you were their mom? Who were you before you were his wife? Who were you before you were his wife? Who were you before you were with your partner? Who were you? What were you into? What did you love? What lit your heart on fire? And a lot of times the things that they loved, they feel stupid about. They're like, well.

The dance. Yeah. Art and music and singing. Exactly. I loved choir. I loved somewhere along the way we got the idea that if we couldn't make money at something, it didn't have any value in our lives. No, dang it. That's the point. That's the point of living. What are you doing if the only thing that you have in your day is how you show up for other people? Well, it's no wonder that you've lost who you are. I'm also super obsessed with the idea, this is a lot of what the next book is about, is women, from the time most of us are born, most societies that I know of raise women that to be a good woman is to be good for other people. So if you can be a good wife to your partner, if you can be a good mom to your kids, if you can be a good daughter, good friend, which means that all of your value is wrapped up in the

way that other people perceive you. So like, I never hear people who are like, oh, look at Sarah, like she practices self-care, like, oh, she's such a good mom with her self-care or like, oh, look at Jamie, like she's running another marathon. That's like, oh, the definition of a good mom with her self-care. Or like, oh, look at Jamie. Like, she's running another marathon. That's like, oh, the definition of a good wife. No, it's all about how you show up for others. So then you have, like, it's no wonder that women struggle so much with their perception of themselves or other people's perception of them because we've been taught that that's our value.

So, of course, you don't think there's any value in you being part of show choir on weekends because you've been taught that what he wants for you is more valuable than what you want for you. Man, if you have something on your heart, if there's something that keeps showing up that you think like, this is, like, I'd really like to do that, but what if they laugh? I'd really like to do that, but what if I fail? I'd really like to do that, but what if I fail? I'd really like to, but I'm going to have to find childcare. I'd be like, dang it, sister, listen to that.

Listen to that voice in your head. Listen to that voice in your heart. That is the real you begging, begging you to step into who you're called to be. Yeah. Do you think that's the biggest challenge for women is that they are, let's say, moms, that you see is that they're not stepping into who they're supposed to be? Absolutely. Or they don't believe they have the capacity to or they're not allowed to?

Is that the challenge? I think it's a lot of everything comes back to other people's opinions. People-pleasing. Yes. They are drowning, women, myself included, drowning. I used to drown inside of what other people thought I should have for my life. It starts with parents, right? Yeah, yeah. I didn't come from a society and I didn't marry into a family where it was super normal for a woman to be an entrepreneur, for a woman to be

a writer, for a woman to be a speaker. Both Dave and I came from really traditional backgrounds where like dad worked, mom saved a home, and raised the kids. And so I had navigated that for years of I really wanted to build a company. It still exc me, like, trying to figure out, okay, how do we scale this? How do we grow here? And it was fine. People thought it was fine when we needed the money. When we needed the money, when we were newlyweds and we needed the money, everyone was supportive of, like, this cute little thing that Rachel did. And then when he started to make enough that we didn't need that and we had kids, everyone immediately, like, when are you quitting?

When are you going to stop? And I was like, I just worked so hard to build this business. So I didn't want to stop, but I also didn't want to bother anybody. I didn't want to put anyone out. I didn't want anyone to be mad at me. And so I spent years and years building this thing. I don't want to say, like, in secret, but I would never talk about it. If I went to an

event with Dave, we worked in the industry. And if I went to an event and someone asked me what I did, I'd be like, oh, I'm a blogger. I like had a staff, full-time staff of five. We're doing really good revenue, working with some of the biggest brands on the planet. And I would be like, I'm just, I'm just a blogger. Yeah. My little, my little side hobby, my little thing. You were playing small. Absolutely. We'd go to family parties. I wouldn't talk about business at all because I knew that it would make people uncomfortable.

Wow. And simultaneously, and I can call this out in women when I see it all the time now, is that when women do this, the number one symptom that happens when you do this is anxiety. Like when women tell me that they're suffering with anxiety, I'm like, who are you trying to please? Because it, like it always, if I keep digging, it always comes back to that. It's like you're living, it's almost like you're living a double life. Your heart is telling you you're one person and your brain is telling you, but you've got to fit into this box over here. And so for years, I did this. And for years, I suffered from anxiety attacks.

And it took a ton of therapy and a ton of work to get to the other side of it to be able to have the courage to be like, no, this is who I am. Wow. And not this is who I am, like middle fingers up, like a Beyonce song, like get out of here, you can't. No, like I am going to be so full of love with myself that I don't need to beg you for it with the way I live my life.

You don't need approval from anyone else. Exactly, exactly. Because you can be happy alone or full of love alone. Yeah, totally. I like making people uncomfortable. I like either making people uncomfortable to get them out of their situation and get them to rise to their greatness. Or I just spend time with people that support my dreams.

It's either one. But for me, it's like if I'm going to be around you and if you're not going to be on board with what I'm doing, because I'm on board with what you're doing. Whether you want to play small or not, I'm going to be on board with your life and excited for you and wanting to push you to do more. But don't try to pull me down in any way. Well, but see, the flip of that is I think that's accepted for a man. Is it? Yeah. And I don't think that it often feels like that for women.

Interesting. I feel like we sort of raise men to be ambitious, chase your dream, do the thing, be yourself. And we raise women to chase men. Really? Yeah. Everybody that I grew up with, everybody that I grew up with, like that was your goal was you're going to get married and you're going to have babies. Like that is why you are here. And I know that's not every culture, but it's a lot of cultures. Even subconsciously, maybe. Maybe you're not saying that, but it's like you feel it.

Yes. And I mean, I hope, God, I hope, you know, I have a daughter 18 months old. Like, I refuse to teach her this narrative. I refuse to teach her this narrative. And I hope in this next generation, I hope that in a younger generation, I hope the girls on my team who are in their 20s, I hope they would tell you something else. I hope they would say, no, I was raised to go to college. I was raised to build a career. I was raised to build my dreams.

Like, I hope that's the narrative. But I'm 35, and I can tell you that for the friends that I know and the women I interact with online, that was the goal. And it's so hurtful. What if you're gay? What if you're not interested in men? Or what if you don't want to get married? Or what if you don't want to have babies? Like, so then you have no value because you're not the way that society says you should be.

So I think that it is, it's a really hard thing to come out from underneath. I think of it too, like when you're a little girl, the value that you have a little girl is how other people perceive you as a daughter for your parents. It's like, oh, she's so cute. She's so funny. She's so precocious. She's so, so you learn at a very early age that, oh, oh, when I please other people, that makes mom and dad happy. Like when I do, okay, so I'm going to keep. And so we, we are taught to like live our lives for how other people perceive us. And then you hit 35 and you're like, well, I don't know who I am.

Who am I? Yeah, I don't know who I am. I've lost myself along the way. When did you feel like you found yourself? So I, yeah, so when I was having really bad anxiety attacks, I. How old were you? This was probably five years ago. 30 years old.

Yeah, 30 years old, having really bad anxiety attacks. Like have a company to run, have people who are counting on me, and I could function. I had a double whammy, so I was having anxiety and I was having horrible vertigo. Like room would spin, didn't feel comfortable driving. Of course now I can look back and be like, hello, you had problems. But at the time I was like, I'll just work harder. I'll just drink more caffeine. I'll just, you know, like I was a nightmare, right? I was a horrible workaholic, like horrible workaholic, hustling for my worth. Just kept thinking, I'll just keep growing, growing, growing, and then we'll see what

happens. So I was having really bad anxiety and I wanted, I got to a place where I was going to have to be on medication. Wow. And how was your health? And yeah, like, like meaning like I'm going to have to take something to calm myself down. Wow. And were you in good shape physically? Physically great. Running marathons, doing, you know, eating well. So you're a workaholic on all levels. You're like, I'm on all levels. I train, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. Yep. And frankly, I'm going to say this and you're going to understand it. I could have gone on that way forever. But when it started to affect my performance, then I was like, I got to get help. Because my performance is like my ability to show up, my ability to do work.

That lights my heart on fire. So if I can't do this anymore, yeah, I was going 100 miles an hour, and I had really bad anxiety, and I was like, I'm going to have to get medicine. I would have anxiety attacks, and I remember Dave would be like, babe, like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I can't tell you what's wrong. I don't know what's wrong, but it's bad, and I can't function, and I'm crying in bed like that.

Have you ever had an anxiety attack? Not an anxiety attack. I feel like I've had a lot of emotional, I don't know if they're breakdowns, but just like moments where it's hard for me to get past it. Yeah, totally. Totally. But I wouldn't be like, ah, it was just more like in the fetal position, like sad. Yeah. Well, I had like a lot of extended family members who had abused prescription pills. And so I had a fear of that. I had a big fear of that. And so when I felt like I was going to have to get on medicine, I was like, you got to do something.

And honestly, if you need medicine, like, get on it. Do the thing. Work with a doctor. Get past it. But for me personally, I really didn't want to have to go there. And so I was like, then you better do some freaking work. So what did you do? Got in therapy immediately, read every book I could find, started, went to therapy,

helped with the anxiety, still had really bad vertigo. So just communicating and talking about your stresses helped you relieve it. Well, the irony is I realized how much anxiety for me was triggered by people pleasing. So, I mean, I could be cut off in traffic. Like, not even I did something. I could be cut off in traffic and someone, I could tell that the person in the car was, like, mad at me. Like, you know, LA.

Like, they flip you off or they do something. And it would send me into an anxiety attack. Like, anybody being upset with me. It's funny you say that because just yesterday I was thinking that. How I can be, if I'm not clear with my intentions every single morning of how I want to show up that day, if I haven't meditated, if I haven't thought about my day, I can be driving and someone can react to me or honk or flip me off for some reason, and I can be so reactive quickly. Yes.

This defensive reactiveness. You're like, where did that come from? I'm like, what am I doing? So that's why every single morning I really focus on when someone does this today. Yes, not if. How do I want to show up? Because it's going to happen with something in my team or my audience or someone outside, whatever it may be. Someone's going to say something or look at me the wrong way, especially being in West Hollywood.

Yeah, hello. Totally. People beg for money and then if you don't give it to them, they're like, you have, you know. Yeah, you're like, what? I didn't have any change. Or if you give them some money, they're like, look at you like it wasn't enough.

Yes, only in LA. Someone is going to be upset at you throughout your life. Totally. Multiple times, probably every single day. And that's why I think it's important for us to, you know, it's interesting you say this because I think there are three fears that we struggle with the most. The fear of failure that a lot of people struggle with, and that's why they won't take on something

in their life because they're afraid to fail. The fear of success, which is, I never had that. Yeah, me either. I was always like, I want to achieve this. Yeah. When people ask me that in conferences, I'm always like, oh, I don't even know how to answer So many people, when I say, how many of you are afraid of success? A lot of people say that. Yeah. But there's a weight and a responsibility of leaving people behind. Yes, that is, you're so right. That's always the thing. It's like, well, if I do this, my family and friends won't. Yes. They'll like try to pull me down or something. And the last fear, which I think you and I have and had is

the fear of judgment, being judged for who we are, what we want, who we want to be, the things we say, the things we do, the passions we have in life. And that fear of wanting to please people and being judged. And at the center of all three of those is just, I'm not enough. We believe we're not enough. And that's why we have these three fears. But when we can get past the fear of failure, success, and judgment, that's when we can step into anything. Absolutely. Anything. Yeah.

But that people-pleasing is something that a lot of us face. Yeah. So what did you do to get past the anxiety of pleasing everyone? So I was going to therapy. I was doing all these things. And then the honest-to-God truth is I went to UPW. Yeah. Yeah.

And it changed my life. Yeah. And it changed my life. Yeah. And it was my first. For those who don't know, it's Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins, Unleash the Power Within. It was my first personal growth conference like that. Super powerful. And it's like four days of therapy.

Intense therapy. Group therapy. Group therapy. All the feelings. Getting it out. Yeah. Catharsis. Screaming.

Dancing. Talking. But the most powerful thing that he said that day was. all the feelings. Getting it out, catharsis, screaming, dancing, talking. Yes, everything. But the most powerful thing that he said that day was, and this is in the documentary that's on Netflix. He says this line, he's talking to someone and he says, which parent did you crave love from most? Not who did you love most? Who did you crave love from most? You wanted your mom or dad? Dad. Absolutely dad. Dad was a Pentecostal minister. I did not have his attention and I wanted it. And he says, so who did you crave love from most? And I'm like, okay, dad. And he said, and who did you have to be to get his love? And so for my dad,

by the way, like everyone, everybody's limiting beliefs are wrapped up in this thing. Like I believe this to be true. So for me. Who did you have to be? I had to be a performer, an achiever. Perfect. When he wanted to pay attention to me. And the second he was done, children should be seen and not heard. Wow. So this was this horrible dichotomy for a little kid, which was.

Turn it on. Yeah. And then shut up. And shut up and go to your room or just sit there. Yes, so then I'm like, oh, now I find myself as an adult working myself to illness. I can't stop achieving. The second I achieve something, I'm already trying to figure out what the next, I mean the second.

I don't celebrate anything. On to the next thing and simultaneously keeping it super small so it doesn't offend me. Not telling anyone. No. Not telling anyone out of the van. I'm like, in this huge 14,000 person thing, like behind my, like, oh my God, is anyone else getting this?

It was so powerful for me. Wow. And I came home from that trip just on fire, like on fire. You walked on fire too. Yeah, the whole thing, like I'm so passionate and alive and feel more like myself. And I came home to a husband that was not interested. Like he thought it was all, you know,

it's all a cult. You're crazy. He was actively not interested in where I was. And now I came home and I'm on fire and I'm getting up at 5am and he's grouchy and grumpy and not having any of it. grouchy and grumpy and not having any of it. And it was the first time in our relationship that he didn't like something and I kept doing it. So you didn't please him. You didn't stop to please him. I didn't please him for the first time ever in my life. I was like, this is not about how you feel about me changing. This is about how I feel about me changing. And I just kept going. And the interesting thing is about three months later, I'm still on fire. I'm still doing all the things.

He was like, okay, I want to go. Really? Like, I want to know what this is all about. I want to see. You got past, like, needing to please him. And you kept going. And you hurt his feelings probably a lot and upset him. Made him very uncomfortable.

Because I think any time, this is another question I get, is women are like, I want to change or I want to build my business, and my partner hates it. It's like, well, yeah, because you're changing, and now they're afraid that you're going to not love them anymore, right? Because you're growing and you're changing. What if you don't need them? Feel judgment. Yeah, what if you don't? We're all like little precious snowflakes at our core. So, yeah, I just kept going. And he, like I kept living into myself and believing big things and doing all the work. And he was like, okay, I want in.

And we went to UPW. I got him Christmas. You went together. We went together. And it changed our marriage. Like if you are looking at our social today and the things that we're doing. Was this two years ago? A couple years ago, yeah.

When all the stuff was going down, which we've talked about, the struggles that we've had there. But we went together after I had that hard conversation with him. And what was the conversation you said with him? We said this on our podcast. You can, like, go find the episode. But I knew it was bad for a long time. He was really unhappy with his job. And here's a guy who was a president at Disney,

right? He's making seven figures as a salary. The dream, the dream. He has a dream job and he's super unhappy. And so he dealt with that by coming home every day, put headphones in, he started playing video games, drinking too much, you know, not showing up for the kids, not really being present with me. And simultaneously then being angry at me as I'm trying to like pursue a better version of myself. So for months I knew I needed to have a conversation with him, but I was like, maybe sick to my stomach. Like, this is bad, right? I'm like, this is getting bad. Where I think started to see like, man, if this keeps going the way it's going, you're here and I'm growing, like we're not going to be together.

But how do you say that? Because I, the thing was. You've been married for how long? Right now I've been married for 14 years, together for 16. So at this point we've been together 14 years when this is happening. And I'm thinking. Mostly I didn't want to hurt his feelings. That was the, I knew it was going to crush him. I knew it was going to hurt his heart so bad. He's also the most, like our conflict resolution styles, I shut down, he will battle you to the death. Like he will battle to the death. So I'm like, oh gosh, like if I try and talk to this guy about this huge thing, he's going to debate me until I'm like, you know what, you're right. You know, which is what we had done for years. And you just pleased him. You're like, okay. Okay, you're right. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, I got what, you're right, you know, which is what we had done for years. And you just pleased him. You're like, okay. Okay, you're right.

I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, I got to do this. So I, for the first time for months, I thought about and planned it and prayed and thought, like, for months I planned this conversation in my head. Like, how do I have this conversation with him in a way he can receive it? That's what I kept wondering. Like, I don't want to talk at him. I want him to be able can receive it. That's what I kept wondering. Like, I don't want to talk at him. I want him to be able to receive it.

And so we had gone on a family vacation that was really bad, really bad. He might have told you guys about it. Two weeks, he's completely, yeah, shut down. I remember this. He was supposed to be relaxed, and it was, like, miserable. Yeah, shut down, not involved with the family at all. Just, like, not, he drank a lot. Like, just bad.

We've all been in situations like that. That was his time. And after that vacation, I'm like, we've got to have this conversation. So we come home. Literally that day, put the kids to bed. And I go in the bedroom. I'm like, I need to talk to you. And I need you.

I need so badly for you to please try and hear it. Please don't be defensive. And it was about a two-hour conversation. And it was he kept getting fired up, and then we'd have to talk himself back down. But the gist was, I said, if I keep growing and you stay the same, two years from now, we're not going to be together because it's just impossible. The Bible says in a marriage you can't be unevenly yoked, meaning if one ox is bigger than the other, the yoke, I don't even know if that's resonating with you.

Four people who farm are like, I got you, Rach. But you can't have one person, one part of a relationship that's growing and changing and being the best version of themselves and someone else who's stagnant. It's not going to work. Because one of us or both of us is going to start to resent each other. And then it's going to become something bigger than it is in this moment. So we had this really hard conversation, and he's devastated. He's devastated. You weren't saying, I'm ending it.

You were just saying in a couple years. No, I was just like, we have a problem. And I don't know how you are with your relationship, but I know with Dave and most guys I know, they want to be their partner's hero. Absolutely. You want to be the hero. Otherwise, you have no meaning in that relationship. So for him to hear that, like, I was that unhappy was devastating for him. But it also was a wake-up call.

And so, you know, hey, let's do the work. He started going to therapy. He did all of his stuff. So he was receptive. He was receptive, and I got him UPW for Christmas, and we went together, and it was incredible. It was incredible. It's why we are so passionate about live events, because I've had my life, and he has had his life changed at a live event. Because you're immersed, right? Like when people go to your, you're in there. Like it changes your way of thinking for a period of time. And then you can kind of see the world a little bit differently than you did before.

That was the thing for us. And we are who we are because of that season we walked through. Wow. That one conversation. Yeah. Changed everything. You may not be married right now. That is absolutely correct.

Wow. Yeah. And we're like the best. He's the best. And he also left, what, four months ago his dream job that he wasn't happy at to come essentially work for his wife. Yes. Yeah. To not be like the man at this big company and have this identity anymore but to be like, oh, I work under my wife

essentially, right? Well, what's interesting is that in order for us to make this decision, I had to step down as CEO which was very hard for my ego. Very hard. So he's the CEO.

He's the CEO. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done it. He wouldn't have done it and that was a conversation that we had. He was like, babe, if another company, and this was over many conversations,

he was like, if another company tapped me right now to come and i would be the ceo some other startup and it's good that he did because i would have continued to try and run it and do all of it and do all of it and the whole reason he's here is because i was struggling to do both like i can't run the company and be the face of the company simultaneously. It's hard to be the talent and the, I mean, I struggle with it. I know. I was like, I, but I don't have four kids. It's like, I do it all because I'm able to at the time I have. Exactly. So we talked about it for a long time and that was, I really didn't, I just loved like, Oh, self-made CEO, female CEO. And then I had a girlfriend who said, have you ever just written down which parts of your job you actually like to do and see if they're the CEO job? And I did. And I was like, oh, holy crap. No, I don't want to be CEO. I don't want to figure out the

finances. I don't want to hire people. I don't, what I care about is the content. I care about the way it looks. I care about the experience that you have. I want to write. I want to look at the visuals. Like, I'm the creative, chief creative officer. Yeah, I don't want to go talking to the banker. Yeah, and you were able to get it to where it's at with your skills. But to get to where you want it to be, you needed someone else to support who's got that experience. Yeah. And who's better suited for that role, potentially.

Yeah, and that was what was hardest for me, honestly. I cried about it a lot, is I thought, he's going to come on. Like, I've pushed this for years to get it right to the pinnacle. And now right where I'm about to take off, he's going to get all the credit. And people are going to give him credit. And I said that to some friends who run a company together, husband and wife. And it was like, oh, this is your pride talking. It's like, do you want to have a successful company or do you want like a pat on the back?

What do you? I think, and I think the greatest leaders give everyone else the credit. Yeah, totally. It's like, oh, this is good. This is humbling for me. You'll get all the photos. Yeah. It's a good, it's been a really good lesson to learn.

It's been, it feels like a very mature thing to have done. What's the biggest challenge of working with your spouse? I feel like being married and working in business. Well, that part has been super fun. He is legitimately my best friend. We could hang out a hundred hours. Like we have so much fun together. Like it's dumb. And we were a little nervous about, Oh, if we work together, are we going to still like each other? And it's been incredible. Truthfully, it's been incredible. Wow, that's cool. I think what is—I'll be super transparent.

There is a part of me that—I said something earlier which might have, like, clued you into this. It feels like I've had to work so hard to get to where I am. And he has just—he would tell you the same thing. He is super charming and he's super smart and he's had a very easy road. Like from childhood to where he is today, he's had a very easy road. He didn't work hard to get this job. He's worked very hard, but not the same way. But not, and he'd tell you that.

Like if you don't have resources, if you don't have money, if you don't have an education, if you don't, But not, and he'd tell you that, like, if you don't have resources, if you don't have money, if you don't have an education, if you don't, and you're building a business in Los Angeles, you're going to do that by the hustle, right? Yeah. And so there is a part of me that's like, he skipped the line. He didn't go through adversity. Yes, he, like, skipped the line. The challenges. And I'm like, that's not fair. I mean, that sounds so, my gosh, like, that's so ego and terrible.

That's not fair. I mean, that sounds so, my gosh, that's so ego and terrible. But that's the truth. That's been the hardest part to navigate for me is all of a sudden we're in this together. All of a sudden, this is a silly thing, but it's not silly to me. We started doing a podcast together, you know. When did that come out? A couple months ago.

Yeah. We got two podcasts in the top ten in the world. Yeah. It's crazy. Crazy. We tape two podcasts in the top ten in the world. Yeah. It's crazy. Crazy. We tape them like on our iPhone, which is the best. We do not have this fanciness yet. But we started doing a podcast together and immediately we started showing up in things and they'd be like, Rachel and Dave Hollis.

And I was like, this is not a wedding invitation. I am Rachel Hollis. I've earned the right to my name by myself. Like Rachel Hollis and Dave Hollis. It's not Rachel, like don't lump me in. Like it was like as soon as we started working together, it became, I don't know, I sound terrible. This sounds terrible, but this honest truth, this is what I've struggled with. So what the struggle was, you didn't want to feel lumped in with your husband? We started going to book signings and people would ask him to sign the book too. Really? Yeah. Even though he didn't write the book? That bothers me. Ooh, that would bother me too.

Because I'm like. Like, no, no. This is my book. I, what? Like that. But he didn't help with any of this, did he? No. No, no, no.

I mean, this is like a lot of it is our story. Sure. But like, no. But that is, again. And if your name's not on the book. Yeah. You shouldn't sign it. You shouldn't.

But it's also like that is 100% my ego talking. Yeah. I have to say it's been like a really hard season. I just am like trying to get over it. It's like how is this for me? Like I'll be super honest. Share it. So y'all went to on a fishing trip.

Yeah. And you weren't invited. I was not invited. Well, no. It was all men. I understand that it was men. But it was, oh, hey, Rachel, the biggest personal development people are all going on this trip. Does your husband want to go? Like that was a really

interesting the whole time. Like he knows this. It was like the biggest personal self-therapy I've done in my entire life was like, okay, okay, how is this for me? How is this for me? What am I supposed to learn from this? That's why when I sent you like a text or video, you didn't respond to like, he got back. Yes, because I was like trying to process in real time. You know, we've talked about this. Like all of these, everything that's happened with this has been overwhelming. And so I have been praying for guidance from people in this field, praying like, oh, I wish that I could talk to someone.

I wish that I – and you and Ed and Brendan have been so incredible to come around me and support me. But I'm like – so I'm like, okay, Lord, how have I been praying for this? And then you give it to Dave. Truthfully, I'm at home with my four kids by myself going like, okay, why? I'm missing out on this. But then I'm like, okay, I can think of all kinds of reasons why. Maybe he needed it more than you did. Probably.

Maybe he needed this community. You know how much he's needed a community of guys that can lift him up and encourage him. Stop being so selfish. Maybe he needed this more than you did. Maybe you needed this. Maybe you needed to sit at home and be okay with this attention on him. Okay, so what and how I would have managed that years ago, and I told him this when he came home, like how I would have managed it years ago is that I would have shut down. I wouldn't have responded to his texts. I would have been totally passive aggressive, manipulating his, I would have shut down. I wouldn't have responded to his texts. I would have been totally passive

aggressive, manipulating his, I would have ruined the experience for him. Made him feel horrible the whole time. Totally. What she already did, like most guys, if they have to leave a wife and kids are like, I'm sorry, babe. So he already was feeling guilty about being gone so much. Like I had the opportunity to support him in that or make him feel like crap. And every time I was just like, oh my gosh, live your best life. Now I'd hang up the phone and cry. You know, I would. I told, that's the truth. I would. I really struggled with it. And by the time he got home, I was like in such a good place. Cause I just thought, okay, here, self care, self therapy right now. Wow. Cause it's like, why? Yeah. I think also you're going to be celebrated constantly. You're getting acknowledgement through every post you do, every podcast, every time you

go somewhere, you're getting celebrated. You don't need that as well. You don't need all of it. And you're going to need him to feel acknowledged and celebrated for the gifts he brings to the mission as well. Totally. And so you should be encouraging that to see the business thrive. Well, the thing was, it wasn't about acknowledgement.

It was like, I was like, I just want, like, y'all did, what's it called? Like, you would, like, mastermind. You'd be like, oh, babe, we're going to, like, go in the living room and mastermind someone right now. I'm like, I want to mastermind. Sure, sure. So, you know, it's just I want that connection. And there aren't.

It's me and Mel Robbins. Like, tell me the other women. Gabby, Marie, but they're different. It's not the same thing. And so I want a community with people. I want to go shoot a gun. Create it. Yeah.

I know. Call up Mel. She's amazing. I know. She's incredible to hang out with. I know. Have you connected with her yet? Yeah, I have.

She's amazing. Yeah. No, I'm going to, like, have yet? Yeah, I have. She's amazing. Yeah. No, I'm going to have a thing, and I'm going to invite men and women because— Do your thing. —shoot guns too. Brendan, he's going to be so mad at me for saying this. Do your thing. That would be amazing.

Yeah. Wow. What do you think will be the biggest struggle you have over the next 12 months? Because here's the thing. He will face a big challenge at some point with this business because every new season, something new is going to happen. And as you continue to grow, I hope it keeps growing for you nonstop. But at some point, it's not going to grow to the same level at some point. It may go flat and back, you know, may grow in different ways.

And who knows when that's going to be. Might be years. Yeah. But at that point, he's going to have to face some challenges. Like, now what do I do to reinvent what we're creating? Yeah, totally. Or if the algorithm changes or this, and I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah.

Now I've got to learn all these things because. What do I think is going to be the biggest challenge in the next, I think right now it's really trying to navigate how do you continue to show up for people and not be overwhelmed by people. A lot. Yeah. The more people that want your time and attention. Yeah.

Need you. You have four kids. You've got a husband, a marriage. You've got a team. You've got millions of people. Yeah. When I feel overwhelmed, my gut is like, go hide away. And it's so funny.

All of you, all these guys are like, don't listen to that instinct. Ed said this to me. He's like, you need people who are further along than you so they can look back at where you are and tell you that you're safe. Like, you're okay. You're safe. You're on solid ground. Like, don't be freaked out. Just keep, stay here, stay with it, keep doing the work. Because when I'm like at the grocery store with my kids and my six-year-old's having a meltdown about wanting cookies I won't give him, and he's screaming and someone comes up and they're like,

can I just get a quick selfie? Like that's overwhelming. And so trying to navigate that is hard because former people pleaser, I want to say yes to everybody. I want to give you all the pictures. I want to do all the things. And I don't ever want to start to resent the place that this success has gotten me. I realized in retrospect that I was overwhelmed by everything that was happening with the book because it surpassed anything I could imagine. I had always had these big lofty dreams for myself, but I never imagined something like this. And so just trying to navigate that now, which sounds like, it sounds obnoxious. Like I feel like if I heard someone saying like, oh, it's hard to manage people asking

you for an autograph, I'd be like, shut up. Go cry somewhere else. But it's weird. It's weird. And the thing is, I know you have this too. People don't come up and say, hi, I like your book. They tell you their whole life story and how you changed their life. Yes, because there's a lot of hard things in this book. And so they want to tell you their hard thing. And if I'm at the grocery store with a six-year-old and you're telling me about your divorce, that feels like I don't know how to have boundaries. It's a lot of energy. It's a lot of energy.

You're taking on a five-minute story, and it's hard to just clear that space in your heart right away. But I want to keep, for me, I want to keep coming back to the why. Like, why are you here? What do you, like, if you can just keep coming back to that thing. And that picture you showed me earlier, was that Brooke? Like, was that Juliana Huff's, where was all you guys? Brooks. Yeah. Yeah.

Brooks, yeah. So I was listening to him on a podcast, and he said, not that I haven't heard this before, but it was something about that day that I, like, needed to hear those words. He was like, what's your why? Like, why are you here? Why are you here? Why are you on this planet? What gets you out of bed in the morning? And in this season, I just needed, I need to remember, oh yeah, that's what I'm doing.

That's what I'm doing. It's not to sell books. It's not to be on lists. It's not, I want to be a better version of myself every day. You were talking earlier about your values. My greatest value is growth. It's the greatest thing I could hope for in my life. I want to be a better mom, better wife, better boss, better writer, better every way that I show up. I want to be better just by a little bit every single day.

And my mission is to give women the tools and the opportunity to understand that they are also capable of that. So by an inch or a mile, like the next book, we were saying this earlier, like there's no way. Like this is a, you get a once in a lifetime, this is crazy. The next book, maybe 10 people are going to buy it. But if those 10 people get something out of it, then I have accomplished my life's mission.

So I just want to keep coming back to that why. And even if it's at the grocery store and it's like, okay, in this moment, the way that I can show up for this woman is to talk her through this in the cracker aisle. That's what I'm going to do. The gluten-free aisle. Yeah, the gluten-free. What do you think you'd be doing if this sold 20,000 copies, you grew 20,000 followers over the last year and didn't hit the list. What would you be doing and how would you be feeling about yourself if it didn't blow up? Oh, I think the exact same way that I am right now. Yeah, I don't think this, this has not adjusted my perception of myself at all.

Let's say it bombed and people are like, eh, I don't get it. I don't like it. Would you write another book? Oh, yeah. I'd always write. Writing is my thing. Writing is, I feel like it's a gift. If you can create anything, that's a gift and you should do it just because you can. So I've been writing since I was a little girl and I love that there are people who want to read it. But even if people didn't like this one, I'd just hope that they'd like something else or I'd go back to fiction or yeah, I'm not writing. I'm not writing like I hope that it resonates, but that's not why I'm writing. I'm grateful for the success of the book, honestly, because I get to speak on bigger stages now and I really like speaking. I like teaching in a group setting

that really lights my heart on fire. So that's probably the biggest change is that I get to do that on a more massive scale. But I'd be the same person. Yeah. I mean, I still drive a Mini Cooper. I don't. I still shop at Target. I don't. I'm trying to think of what would be different.

I bought some really nice booties for winter. Shoes? Yeah, Chloe booties. That was like a big splurge for me. But other than that, I feel like I'm the same OG. Interesting. And what do you think is the, once women know that they have the ability to own their self-worth and they have dreams bigger than what other people

want them to do. What's the next challenge for them? How? I mean, I feel like you set me up like as if you know the next book and you're being a friend to me right now. But that was the number one question I got when I was writing this was like, or when this came out was like, okay, how though? You tell me to pursue something more for myself, but how? So the next book is, it's called Girl, Stop Apologizing. It's like, stop apologizing for who you are. The tagline is a shame-free guide for embracing and achieving your goals. Like, how do you achieve something? So I was able to look at my life, like professionally and personally, whether it was running a marathon or building a business or getting a book deal.

And it was all the same roadmap. So maybe you're the same way. Maybe this is not like new, but this is how I did it was I would start with a goal and I would work backwards and would break it down into manageable bite-sized pieces. And every single time I got to a new spot in the map and I didn't know how to achieve something, I did the same three things to try and get me uncluttered and then I'd move forward and I kept moving forward. That's the question people always want to know is like, okay, I'm in, but how? I mean, how do I do that without feeling sorry about it?

Because so many moms especially have the desire, but they feel so terrible that them pursuing something for themselves means that their partner has to watch the kids or means that they're going to miss. Their friends are like, we never see you anymore. You don't come out with us anymore. You sort of let people talk you into giving up on the goal that you had for yourself, which is crazy because, man, those other people are not the ones who are going to have to live with regret for the rest of their lives. Your friends are not the ones who are going to watch everyone else go on family vacation

and you can't afford to take your kids anywhere. The other people aren't going to have to live with the choice that you made, but you allow them to talk you into doing something you didn't want to do. I heard a pastor say years ago, don't let someone in the cheap seats have an expensive opinion in your life. Don't let someone who's not in the ring get to decide who you are and what you

get to be. Isn't it funny that one, two, or three people can decide our life based on what they want us to do or what they think we should do. And we hold onto that judgment or people pleasing so much that will allow one person's opinion of us hold us back forever. It's crazy how powerful someone's opinion of us influences us. What's cool on the flip side is that when we hold onto someone's belief about us, when no one else believes in us, but that one person says, no, I actually think you can do this. And we get to hold on to that idea. And we stick with that. And then we pursue our dreams.

That's also a really cool thing. I feel like that's like the sports analogy sort of coming out with you. I love that. I don't feel like I had that in my life. No one believed in you or said you can do this? Well, I met my husband when I was 19, and he's always been a cheerleader for me. That's right. But I think that my dreams actually scared him more than made him.

He would be like, what, babe? You want to do what? But I did hear someone say, I always quote podcasts, and I'm probably going to quote your podcast to you on Accent right now. But I heard someone say recently, like, I always quote podcasts. I'm like, I'm probably going to quote your podcast to you on Accent right now. But I heard someone say recently, like, sometimes having an antihero is just as powerful as having a hero. So I think a lot of what propelled me was growing up and thinking, I don't want to be like this. I don't want this life. I don't want these things.

And that propelled me to, like, prove that I wasn't want these things. And that propelled me to like prove that I wasn't. So I only say that because if there's someone listening right now who thinks, yeah, I wish I had someone to speak that truth and belief into me, but I don't. I think that you can still sometimes like. People you don't want to be like. Exactly. Models that you don't appreciate. Yeah. It's like dating a bunch of people and be like, okay, these are all the types of people I don't want to be with.

I definitely don't want to be with that kind of person. So now I know and let me go find the other path. Totally. Okay, so you got the Rise podcast, which is like the top ten in the world. You've got Rise Together podcast, which is with you and Dave and you talk about sex and nipples and back fat. All the things. And when kids are jumping in your bed and you're all naked. How do you manage running a business together? And how do you manage the tough conversations and conflict resolution?

How do you be intentional with having an incredible relationship? Because we just didn't feel like there were a lot of conversations about that. And any of the success that you see with the book or anything, honestly, for anyone who's in business and you're like, man, I wish, like, what's the edge? Everything that you see that we're doing that's successful is our fans have asked for something and we've created it. Yeah. That's my life too. Yeah, right. You're in it every day. So you're talking to them every day. You know what they love. You know it. And if you're like, man, 57 people have asked us the same question. Well, shoot, I should probably do a podcast about that. Let's write a book about this.

Yeah, exactly right. So with the couples podcast, it was just we kept getting so many questions. We were like, oh, let's answer these. Yeah. So Rise Together podcast. Go subscribe. Yep. Rise podcast.

Yep. The book, Girl, Wash Your Face. Girl, Wash Your Face. We got into all the things. I should have suspected this with you. Over a million copies sold and growing faster and faster every week, which is crazy and inspiring. You've got your big events coming up. What's the events? So we actually have our first couples event, which is this weekend in Austin.

Amazing. I know. I'm like, oh, please let us do this. It's called Rise Together. It's called Rise Together. And then our big, our massive conference, women's conference, is in Minneapolis in June. For women only. Women only.

Men cannot buy tickets. We never turn anyone away, but we've never had a dude. It's probably, it's all speaking for women. We're going to talk about, like, you know, I'm going to make jokes that are not going to be for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so it is for the ladies. Primarily women, yeah. Yeah.

Okay, that's in Minneapolis. That's in Minneapolis. Where can they learn about all of this? You can, the easiest way is go follow at letsrise.co on Instagram. That's where all of our event stuff comes up, and you can just get inspirational quotes and the whole thing, but you can find out events as soon as they're ready to go. Okay, cool.

And rachelhollis.com or where? Miss Rachel Hollis. Oh, Miss Rachel Hollis on Instagram and MissRachelHollis.com. That's where all the information is too. That's all the info, yeah. Amazing. I can get the book online, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, all that stuff. And you hang out the most where?

Facebook, Instagram. Yeah, Instagram's my favorite. And you do like a morning live show every single day. We do a live every single weekday morning at 8 a.m. Central. Yeah. And again, that was just like the audience loved it. And gosh, we'll do about 5,000 or 6,000 people live and then 150,000 people watch it every day, which is dumb for something. 100,000 people every day watching.

Every day. 5,000 or 6,000 live. 5,000 or 6,000 live. And then they just keep watching throughout the day. And they just keep watching, yeah. Crazy. So, I mean, that's why people are like, why do you do it every day? I'm like, because.

It's working right now. It's working, exactly. But if like 5,000 people watch after are like, why do you do it every day? I'm like, because. It's working right now. It's working. Exactly. But if like 5,000 people watch after a while, then maybe it's done. Yeah. Then you just sort of. That is something I think in the social media space that people really miss. This is one of the reasons I love Gary Vee is that he is the king of you can't be romantic about how you get the message out. Yeah.

Five years ago, everybody saw everything on Facebook. That isn't the case anymore. You have to. You've got to reinvent. Yeah, you've got to everybody saw everything on Facebook. That isn't the case anymore. You have to reinvent. Yeah, you got to reinvent. And what's working now might not work in six months. And if you're crying about it, you're going to miss the opportunity. A guy at the airport the other day was asking me, like, he saw me in the book. He's like, how are you? You know, and I said, well, social media is a huge thing. He's like, I'm older. You know, I can't be on social. I'm older. And I was like, did you know how to drive a car before you, you taught yourself because it was a tool. Social media is also a tool. Stop saying that you don't know how to do something because you're old. Like this is from your podcast. So

I'm going to repeat something back to you. But it was, I think it was, what's the doctor? Dispenza. Joe Dispenza. He's amazing. I love him. And he said, in an age of this much free information, ignorance is a choice. It is. And I was like, oh, that's so good. Because it was like 10 years ago, people were like, now you have the internet so you can Google stuff and you can figure it out. But now it's like a decade has gone by. There's more information that's being created. You can YouTube tutorial anything.

Yeah. Learn anything for free, essentially. Yeah. You get to dig a lot. It's a. Learn anything for free, essentially. If you have to dig a lot, it's a choice for sure. Yeah, totally. Every single thing that you want to know how to do right now exists on the internet or at your local library for free. Exactly. Maybe if you don't have internet, then that's, if you can't get to it somehow, then maybe that's the excuse. Yeah, that's your rationale. Go to the library. Exactly. Free internet. Yes. It's so true.

All right, well, everyone's going to go get the book. I'm sure a lot of people already have it. They're going to follow you on Instagram, download your podcast, go to your events, all these things. Yeah. I got two final questions. Yeah. One is called Three Truths, and I'm curious, do you know what the question is? Yes, and the thing is, I'm having a heart attack in my heart because do you know how many times in my life I have imagined, like I'm listening to your podcast for years and you ask me this, and I'm like, what am I going to say when Louis asks me this question? And holy crap, I forgot to prepare it.

I really did. So wait, ask me. So imagine it's your last day on earth. Yes. You choose the day. And I get to pick three things that they belong to. Three lessons that you would leave behind to the world because you have to take all of your content and books and documentaries with you so they don't have access to it anymore. But you've achieved everything you wanted, and these are the three things that you would leave behind, the three lessons or truths. So the first one is what I feel like is my life's mission, which is, I say it's for women, but honestly, it's for

anybody. You are in control. You are in control of what happens next. You choose a good life. You choose a bad life. You choose your perception. You are in control of this. And if you are unhappy, that's on you. That's the core of this book is, gosh, like if you don't like something, change it. the core of this book is, gosh, like if you don't like something, change it. If you don't know something, learn it. If you don't have the resources, get them. Like I am a living example of someone who's walked through trauma and horrible hard things and like I am here and I am thriving because I figured it out. So that's the first thing. The second thing that I would say, and I like cannot, I can't stress this enough, and Dave hates when I say it

because he's like, it sounds so negative, but I am not special. I am not special. Because too many women are gonna watch this and they're gonna see my social media numbers or they're gonna hear about this book or they see me speak and they think that there's something special about me,

that I'm wired in a different way or or that I have special genes, or I had, no, I just kept working. I have to say it over and over and over because I do not want anybody to have an excuse. I don't want them to talk it out because they're comparing their beginning with my middle. This is a decade of work to get to where I am right now. I posted this the other day. Like 10 years ago, 10 years ago, I was going and speaking at like mops groups, which is mothers of preschoolers. You don't know what that is. I was speaking at mops groups in like the local senior citizen home.

And I would like shake. My hands would shake. I'd be so, you know, with like sweating through your clothes. I was so terrible at public speaking. but I really wanted to be a good public speaker. I feel like you've talked about this too. Like we suck at first, but I just kept going. I just really believed that I could have anything that I wanted if I was willing to work for it. So if you take nothing else away from my work on this planet or my time with you, let it be that. I am not special. I have just worked really, really hard.

The third thing, if I could leave anything behind, I guess because it's on my heart right now, is that you are allowed to have a dream and hope for your life, even if it doesn't make sense to anybody else. You're allowed to want something. You're allowed to pursue something because it makes your heart come alive. And it doesn't matter if your mom understands it or your boyfriend or your wife or your kids. It doesn't matter that it makes sense to anybody else. It only matters that it makes you come alive. I just can't fathom anything worse than going through the rest of your life on this planet and not listening to that spark or allowing yourself to be lit on fire for this thing that brings you joy because you were worried about someone else's opinion of you. for this thing that brings you joy because you were worried about someone else's opinion of you.

So not only are you allowed to have that, but I think you should want to have something more for your life. Made for more. Made for more. That's it. I love it. Well, I got to acknowledge you for a moment, Rachel, for the consistent work that you've put out in the world for the last decade and beyond, for sticking through the fire with your husband and having the challenging conversations, which I think a lot of people don't have. And then they live settling for something they don't want. And also for being an incredible example of how to be a great mother while running the things that you love and following your dreams. Because I think there aren't enough mothers who are doing what you are doing. And it's an amazing example.

So I acknowledge you for all those things. Thank you. Of course. Final question is, what is your definition of greatness? Oh, gosh, how did I not prepare these? My definition of greatness is just being a little bit better every day. That's all I want out of my life. That's all I could hope for for my kids or my marriage or my business is just every single day we move a little bit closer to a better version of ourselves. It's the greatest thing

I can imagine. Rachel Hollis, thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, brother. thing I can imagine. Rachel Hollis. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, brother. There you have it, my friends. What a powerful interview. If you love this one, if you enjoyed it, if you got some value out of it, make sure to send me a message on Instagram story right now. Tag me at Lewis Howes and tag at MS Rachel Hollis and let us know what you think over on your Instagram story. We'd love to hear from you and love to know the part that you enjoy the most. Share it with your friends,

lewishouse.com slash 697. Post it out on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the places, as I want to make sure that we get this message far and wide. You have the power, my friends, to change your life in any moment. Richard Branson said it best. Every success story is a tale of constant adaptation, revision, and change.

It doesn't matter what you're going through right now. It doesn't matter how bad you have it or how much you feel stuck. You have the power in any moment to start changing the way you think. And when you change the way you think, you can structure your life to start changing the way you think. And when you change the way you think, you can structure your life to start changing the way you act. And when you start changing the way you act and the decisions you make, you can start building better habits, working towards goals, getting unstuck in the situation you're in right now. You have the opportunity to do incredible, great things. It's all about building the belief in yourself through repetition and constant adaptation, revision, and change. I love you so very much. And you know what time it is.

It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music Bye.