The School of Greatness - 745 Defining Masculinity and Its Power with Jason Wilson

Episode Date: January 14, 2019

EMOTIONS ARE GREAT SERVANTS, BUT POOR MASTERS. So many men are hurting, and then hurting others. People don’t want to hear that. But men feel like they’re emotional prisoners. They are committing suicide at much higher rates. They are the ones performing mass shootings. They are reacting in violence. We have to allow men ways to process their past and to express their emotions in order to become the people they are meant to be. It’s not important to “be a man,” it’s important to be human. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about the definition of masculinity with a man whose mission is to mentor boys: Jason Wilson. Detroit’s Jason Wilson is a husband and father of two, and the founder and head instructor of the Cave of Adullam Transformational Training Academy, also known as CATTA. In 2015, he received the Campaign for Black Male Achievement Innovation Accelerator Award. In 2016, Wilson received the President's Volunteer Service Award in Washington D.C. Wilson has also been a guest on The Dr. Oz Show where he discussed his Emotional Stability Training® approach. In 2016, Wilson was a presenter at the White House for the My Brother's Keeper Showcase presented by then-President Barack Obama. What Jason is doing so needed in the world. Like Frederick Douglass said, “It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.” So get ready to learn how to heal past trauma, rule your emotions, and “man down” on Episode 745. Some Questions I Ask: When did you realize your life was full of trauma? (16:00) What should a man do if he expresses a hurt side of himself and he gets ridiculed by his partner? (24:00) How do you rule your emotions? (39:00) What’s your biggest insecurity? (45:00) What’s your biggest insecurity about being a father? (49:00) What should define us as men? (57:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why men need to operate in the fullness of who they are (27:00) The first steps to take to process past trauma (30:00) How men can be better lovers to their partners (38:00) About Jason’s training academy (42:00) The best way women can support men in processing trauma (52:00) Why it’s important for men to cry (55:00)

This is episode number 745 with the inspiring Jason Wilson. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Helen Keller said it best, although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the

overcoming of it. Wow. Today's episode is with a new friend of mine who we've been connecting over the last year, year and a half on the topic of fighting for freedom from emotional incarceration and also toxic masculinity and other things around that. And we've really connected well online, messaging each other. He came to the Summit of Greatness, but I never got to meet him in person until this moment when we had him on. Jason Wilson is the director of the Cave of a Dullam Transformational Academy, a program of the union nonprofit organization that he founded in 2003. And as the founder of one of the country's most esteemed youth organizations, Jason has

decades of experience in strengthening the physical, mental, and emotional spirit of boys and men. And this is an important and powerful interview, and I really hope you dig in and share this with your friends because we talk about the importance of men having a way to express their emotions. We also cover what men can do to practice ruling their emotions, why pain is not meant for us to push through, but to understand, and how men and women can support each other in all types of relationships, that and so much more. I was so moved by his book, Cry Like a Man, and I share a lot of his videos that go viral on my Instagram as well. And the lessons he has, the wisdom that he shares in this interview

is really going to inspire you. It doesn't matter who you are. This is going to be a powerful, powerful interview. So make sure to tag me at Lewis Howes and tag Mr. Jason Wilson on Instagram to let us know that you're listening and share it with your friends. lewishouse.com slash 745 for the full video and show notes and information about that. Super excited about this. All right.

Big thank you to our sponsors. And I'm so excited about this one. Let's dive in with the one and only Mr. Jason Wilson. All right. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We have a very inspiring human today, Jason Wilson in the house. What's up, man? Good to see you, man.

This is really exciting to be here. I'm so glad you're here, man. I think I learned about you maybe two years ago on social media, probably from one of the videos that went viral or something. Started following you, your work. I've shared a bunch of your videos over the past. I shared one, I think, a couple days ago, actually, that did really well.

And I think what you're doing is so needed in the world, and you're just a massive inspiration. So I acknowledge you for that, and I appreciate you because so many men are suffering and are hurting and are hurting others because of it. And we're in a time right now where saying that men are suffering and are hurting others because of it. And we're in a time right now where saying that men are suffering is probably like the thing that women don't want to hear.

They don't want to hear that. They want to hear, well, women have been suffering for so much longer. And so I think there's a fine line of having a conversation about this. But in the video you talked about the other day, the statistics are that men are committing more suicide than women. Men feel like they're prisoners emotionally more

than women and many other things. And because of those reasons, I think men in general suffer worse and they cause harm on other people and themselves because of it. Yes. And statistics show that it's affecting us more than women. And I like to say that we're both hurting. And so you're right, if we focus on one gender, not the other, you know, automatically one side will become defensive. But the reality is that we're both hurting, especially in my community, the African-American community.

We wear trauma like a badge of honor because of all that we've gone through and what we go through now. And so because of that, if you stay in a traumatized mind, you really can't enjoy the blessing of the present. And so your threshold is always here. As soon as the slightest thing happens, you snap or you have a traumatic experience or a breakup like we were just talking about. It's compounded because you haven't released what happened 10 to 20 years ago. And so it's very important that I always say that men learn how to be human. You know, we are more concerned with being masculine. And when I looked up the word masculinity,

it was amazing. It's attributes that are traditionally ascribed to men like strength and boldness. But I said, but they're not ascribed to being a human. And so really, I don't think it's a thing as false masculinity, because really, if you just say you're operating and being masculine, all you're going to exude are those masculine attributes, like aggression, being strong, bold, assertiveness, but no compassion, no caring, no sensitivity. And so because of that, we're not comprehensive. And, you know, again, when we judge ourselves or place ourselves against what this world say a man is, and so you say, man, I like gardening, for instance. Well, that's not being a man. Men don't garden. Now you think I'm no good. I don't

need to be here. Now you say, I can't even get a girlfriend. Now you're going down that path. And then you think of suicidal, you know, taking your own life. And that's the tragedy of not being able to express your emotions. Yeah, and I think the more I've learned about myself and just humanity in general, I really believe that masculinity is being in service for me. You know, that's what I would think of as like a man and someone someone who's masculine someone who serves other people serves himself for their dreams and then is of service to other people it doesn't matter what if it's a strong emotion if

it's compassion if it's something else like as long as they're in service yeah they might need to pull strength they might need to pull compassion in the moment but all of that makes us human but that's why I say I like the the word comprehensive. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, comprehensive man, basically you go in and out of each attribute. You know, I remember I was training in one martial art and my instructor asked, all of us says, who are you? And we say, I'm a warrior. I'm a king. You know, I'm a provider. And he started laughing and he says, next time someone asks you that, I want you to say you're anything and everything that you have to be at any given moment. And he was the first one I wrote about in my book. Actually, I'm there to learn how to fight and defend myself in the streets of Detroit.

But he was showing me how to deal with my emotions. He was the first person that told me that I operated with a passive aggressive mindset. the first person that told me that I operated with a passive-aggressive mindset. And so when he revealed that to me, I'm like, man, I can be strong and sensitive, courageous and compassionate. And so that allowed me to experience, I'm experiencing a different type of life now, growing up when I couldn't hold a woman's hand without getting dogged by my boys. Really? Getting beat down in Detroit. Yeah, you definitely, you couldn't at a concert, a rap concert, you couldn't walk holding hands with your girlfriend.

Without getting made fun of or yeah. Or getting rushed, you know, beat down, seriously. And so now I'm studying to find out that holding hands actually releases pain in the body. So here it is as men, we've denied all of these things, these great expressions that God has given us just for the sake of being what we call a man. There's studies and science has shown that hugging someone for more than three seconds creates a sense of compassion and love and dopamine and comfort and all these things. So when we don't have physical touch, we're denying ourselves of these feelings that we really desire. Exactly. You know, that's my whole thing about being comprehensive, meaning I could finally

live from how my heart wants me to. So when you ascribe to just being masculine, you can only operate in those attributes. But if I want to love my wife or carry her or dance with her or tell her I love you or say you hurt me, I can't because those aren't masculine attributes. And so I refuse to be like limited to that anymore. You know, we misconstrued masculinity for being humanity. It's right. It's funny because if you're a man looking to attract the right partner or to attract, you know, a great partner,

my friend, Matthew Hussey, who's like a dating relationship expert and coach to women, he's always talking about how for men, like, it's not that you're strong that's attractive. It's that you're strong and you're sensitive. You know, it's not that you're... My wife was eight years old. It's not that you're funny all the time and you're able to make me laugh. It's that you're funny and you can be like grounded. Yes. It's both. And it's the contrast that makes you even more interesting and more unique in the world as opposed to I'm always strong. I'm always a provider like that gets boring. You can't be strong all the time anyway. And so what's amazing,

I was talking with a friend of mine who desires to get married and I did a video and it was hilarious. And we were just talking. He says, man, she has to always see Batman. She could never see Bruce Wayne. And I said, what do you mean? He says, well, I has to always see Batman. She can never see Bruce Wayne. And I said, what do you mean? He says, well, I can't let her know that I lack confidence or I'm depressed sometime in the mornings or I have a long day at work. I may need to drink to reset myself. I said, well, what do you think she's there for? And so with my wife, we got it together, together. We got our first house together. We, of course, you get the children together, but everything, our nonprofit, without my wife, it couldn't happen. And so it's sad to see so many men miss what they could have based on what

they don't have. You know, another friend of mine, he says, I want to wait till I have my ducks lined in a row. And I laughed at that. I said, when is the last time you've seen ducks in a row? Right, right. Do you know within a matter, I think a matter of months, he married, he got engaged to the woman of his dreams, and now they're off starting their own business together and everything because he felt he had to have everything together. Had to have a certain amount of income and a job.

If that was the case, that means everyone who has wealth or is rich, their marriages are great, and we know that's not true. It's misleading mantras are leading a man astray, you know, like the classic one, no pain, no gain. And I always say sometimes pain is not meant for us to push through it. Sometimes it's meant for us to slow down and think through it. And so me being, I trained in martial arts for years and weight trained as well. I can't tell you how many injuries I have to this day

because of it. Pushing through the pain. It's motivational tactics. It's actually hurting us as men. Yeah, I think the wise man listens to his body and his emotions and knows when to stop. Yes, sir. And checks their ego at the door.

I learned this over the last five years the hard way because when I started doing CrossFit five, six years ago, I was just like, keep pushing, beat the competitor, and then my back goes out for two months and I can't work out. The wise human is the one who listens and checks their ego. You can still be competitive, you can still strive

to succeed and achieve and win or whatever, but when you feel something is off, if you're gonna get injured, stop. You know, if you can deal with the pain, that's one thing, but creating an injury is another thing. You know, interesting we talk about, like, there's so much injury in football. Yeah. You're creating injury, you know.

But, like, with trauma, it's the same way. You know, it's like if you had an all-star on your basketball team and say he fractured his ankle, you're not going to throw him right back out there. Unfortunately, in society, when we experience an emotional fracture, we expect that we're supposed to just go back out and start our day right over and go again. Then we wonder why that broken heart never really heals, why the next relationship fails just like the previous one,

because we haven't allowed ourselves time to really heal. And so that's the same also with our women as well. It's like it's hard when you've been let down by so many men and you have the right one coming and you're trusted. You have to trust right away. But see, all of us as humans in this society, we have to get up and keep going. You can't grieve longer than a week. And then if you have bereavement time, that time is actually spent planning the funeral. So we really never have time to grieve. And we wonder

why we're more sad and we're always in a performance-based mode, you know, instead of just saying, I want to live from who I am and not what I do. So that's very important. I'm hoping, oh, my mission is to let people identify the trauma and emotional pain so that we can release and get healed from it instead of living in it. You've been through a lot of trauma. You write about it in your book. When did you realize that your life was filled with trauma? And how did you learn to start processing pain? That's a very good question.

Because I grew up expecting trauma was just a part of the black experience and it's not you know when I was in the eighth grade a good friend of mine had gotten shot in the head you know an eighth grader yes it was the first school shooting in Detroit history and a classmate was passing a gun around small caliber automatic which is hard to really discharge if you don't know what you're doing and a bullet went off and shot her in the head. And, you know, I didn't even cry and we were close. I didn't revisit that, man, until I wrote about it in a chapter. And it's hitting me now because a guy says, I need you to go back.

You didn't grieve that. Wow. I literally went in my backyard and started throwing ninja stars because I didn't know how to process the pain. Right afterwards. And in our communities, in the black communities, we don't have an abundance of counselors. So when a tragedy happens, this may be two social workers for 400 kids. So how do you help us process that?

So you go from that to I go prior to my grandfather's lynching and beating and seeing it affect my mom, her anger and depression, then my brother being murdered, and then my other brother being murdered, then my best friend dropping of a heart attack. And great shape, beautiful guy. He's a 40-year-old, 41? 41-year-old. Man, he was one of maybe five guys in the gym could bench press the 200-pound dumbbells. Beautiful guy, dropped dead because of the stress and all that he was holding. Emotional trauma.

He couldn't let anyone know. And even though I'm his best friend, he couldn't tell me because he was big D. He was strong. And so I really didn't realize that this was playing a role until my marriage was in jeopardy. Really? I said, wait a minute.

This is me. I caught myself. I mean, literally when I could experience joy, I would be on the couch, folded up, not in a fetal position, but like, I don't want to talk to you. I'm mad. And just stay there. And it's a beautiful day. My wife would take my kids out. I didn't like, what's going on with you? And I didn't realize it until one day I prayed for God to break me because I'm a strong-willed person and I know he needs to use me to help people. And people are so tired of religion and all this other stuff. It's like, can you just show me? Like Gandhi says, I love your

Christ, but I don't like your Christians because they're not like your Christ. And so I said, God, can you please gracefully break me? Because I'm tired of fighting this war what's going on in me that's stopping me from really living a powerful life and that process started with me almost dying from a shoulder surgery wow when was this 2009 and I knew something was going to happen so much so that I had my beard dyed this one I used to dye my beard had my beard dyed and shaved and my son's hair was cut just in case I didn't make it out the surgery. The mortician would mess me up. And so I made it through the surgery. Thank God for my wife being there because my lungs started filling up with fluid once they took out the IV and I think the trach for the anesthesia.

And after that, my mother was diagnosed with dementia. And as a man, you want to be strong. But when you see someone you love so much, like with your father, deteriorate before your eyes, a man who championed you, supports you, taught you when everyone else would tease you, and just therefore you're now, he's not half the man he used to be. You have to cry. You have to release it. And it was so heavy, Lewis, I couldn't be this masculine man anymore. And that's when I said, oh, wait a minute. This is trauma. I can't just go throughout my day saying, it's okay. And a friend of mine told me one day, I says, man, why am I crying every day? What's going on? He says, Jason, that's your mom.

It's okay. As a man, everyone wants to be hard, but we don't really want to do anything that's hard. We'll run in a burning building to save our family. We'll run in gunfire. We'll jump out helicopters. We'll do everything. But expressing how we feel without balling up a fist or punching holes in a wall, we don't want to touch that with a table. Why is that? Because we've been indoctrinated to this form of manhood that's not really being a man. We're human. You can't tell a man that he can only be strong, a warrior, a provider. And if that's it, he's cut off half of his humanity. I mean, it's like having a dog or something, and you only want him to be in attack mode all day.

It's not a fun dog. It's not a fun dog. And he probably won't even live that long. Right. He'll be exhausted. A dog has to have the love, the caring. He has to have family where he can show a different side to. My brother was a veterinarian. That's why most dogs who are fighting dogs, they don't live that long.

Not only because of the type of abuse that they go through, but the lack of love around. You see it in some of the videos I think you shared before where you adopt a pet and you can literally see this dog, his emotions being thankful to the owner because he's not meant to live as a fighting pit bull. Yeah. I think anger really hurts us a lot. Yes, it does. It's a power though. It's a great power if you allow it to process. I love the scripture. It says, be angry, but do not sin. So anger is a great power. So think about what you're doing. Okay. For instance, why I admire you so much. You refuse to allow what

has happened to you, the things that you've went through to affect others. That's anger. So some anger. Now I don't want to see that happen i hear it when you speak you speak in power and it's okay to process things with anger but don't allow it to rule you don't act from anger like exactly well you can but you can't allow it to make you do something that can hurt someone right it's detrimental to why you're angry that the righteous thing that you should do like rosa parks was angry mar. Like Rosa Parks was angry. Martin Luther King was angry. But it was more from a place of love.

Yeah, because of the mistreatment of a people. And then what I love the most, I call it my brothers and sisters from another mother, they joined in in the movement as well because they were angry. So you can see how anger could be used in a beautiful way if we allow to process it. And that's what I do with a lot of my boys. In the video you just shared with my son, Boxing, I said, why are you crying?

I'm not going to yell at you. Why are you crying? Let's go down this rapid trail. Let's see. And if it's legit, either we're going to keep it. If it's legit, if it's not legit, let's cast it and let's move on. And that's what men want. Men just want to be in a safe space where we can say I'm hurting and not be condemned.

It's so hard though. It's so hard because we feel condemned when we express that we're hurting. We don't get rewarded for expressing hurt. We get made fun of, picked on, bullied. Sometimes, again, I'm not saying all women, but sometimes the women in our life are saying, man up. I need you to be strong right now. But they don't understand when you say man up, you're insinuating that he's not doing something right. So I don't even like the word man up.

I like the word man down. Basically, let's shed this masculinity, just living out of masculinity. It's a time to be masculine. Again, but I want men to operate in being comprehensive or human. So you're right. It's like with my wife, could you imagine how I felt even yesterday? But that was a process to say, that hurt me. I'd rather say that than punch holes in the walls like I used to.

And I got to go back and repair it. Right, right, right. But it's amazing. You know, I find that women, good women, okay, you have to be real specific there, same thing with saying good men, that they appreciate when a man expresses that side of himself. So what should a man do if he expresses

a hurt side of himself and his female partner doesn't accept it or makes him wrong or is scared of it or, you know, whatever it may be? How do you get through that? Well, for me, you have to find the peace within yourself. So if I cry, I remember one time I was in an event and I was moved by something that happened on stage. And I started crying. And it's a lot of just guys that are strong.

You know, I think we was at a weightlifting competition but something the guy who did a demonstration I was comfortable in my humanity and MA in all caps because I'm comprehensive so if you're not comfortable with who you are you're always going to be performance based and so so I got tested before when I was crying one time at another event I was helping youth, and a guy thought he could just come and just try to body slam me. I saw a young man just want to give his life to God, and it moved me. I had to grab this boy before I knew it and put him in a control hole.

He tried to body slam you because you were crying? Yes. Just because you were crying? Yes. Just because you were crying? He thought I was weak. He thought I was weak. He's like, oh, this is a great moment to take me. Yeah, seriously. Just because you were crying?

Yes. And this was the first time I cried in front of a group of men. This was years ago. Before I could control him, Lewis, before I knew it, I had tossed him over my head. Wow. Because of the judo techniques I knew. And I was like, oh, no.

And before I got down, I grabbed him and I put him in a rear naked choke. Now, the thing is that I said, wait a minute. There's nothing wrong with me crying. But my reaction was wrong. Okay. So even though I was in a fear of my life, I was more embarrassed that he was trying to call me a punk pretty much. Yeah, of course. So you tried to make him look like a punk, yeah.

I had to, you know, but as I grew past that, now when I cry in front of my students, fathers, I give them the freedom to cry. And so in front of you, I could cry on cameras. It doesn't matter anymore because I'm free, man. I don't live from what I do anymore. I was performance-based. I would work 12 hours in the studio trying to make the hit records and all this other stuff. Even as I got into working with youth and our nonprofit, then I realized, why am I doing this? Because of the lack of affirmation I received from my father and other men that I desired it from. So you were doing it to gain affirmation?

Yeah, from people. That's where people-pleasing comes from. We're trying to... We're afraid of the judgments of others. Yeah, exactly. But it's like, I know who I am. This is one thing that's interesting. A celebrity I leave nameless,

and I wanted to text him a heartfelt message because something he had did was very powerful and impacted me. And someone says, you know, you shouldn't text him all of that because he's busy, this and that. And I simply said, if I can't text him this, he can't be my friend because this is who I am. I love hard. And because I love hard, you have a committed friend. You got someone to go to a committed friend. You got someone to go to war with you. You got someone to cry with you, someone who will pray with you. So I have to

operate in the fullness of who I am. And that's what men are scared of. See, the conflict comes when, because we feel it. You feel it in a relationship. You want to love without limits, but you guard it. And that's where that conflict comes in. To actually say, you know what? guard it and that's where that conflict comes in yeah to actually say you know what i'm gonna try being i'm gonna i'm gonna exercise a masculine attribute i'm going to be bold and loving my wife without fear you see how you can use the masculine yeah so that's what i do you know i didn't want to go to my wife last night because to me, I wasn't wrong. I went, I said, let's pray. And we pray like this, like God, you know, it was hilarious. She mad and I'm mad, but I'm tired of losing, man.

I can't keep doing the same things over and over. I, with my daughter, you know, it, um, the years she needed me to love her. You know, growing up, you want to protect your daughter. You want to discipline her. But after a certain age, a daughter needs to know you love her. You know, instead of saying, why are you with that guy? He's no good. I need to say, princess, you're so priceless to me.

You know, what is so attractive about this guy? It's a different tone. It conveys a different message. And I refused to allow me to stay there in that relationship with my daughter. And so one day I came to her, I fell to my knees and I said, I'm sorry for everything I've done. She says, well, dad, you're just trying to be overprotective. No, I was able to trace it back to the wounds that were inflicted upon my heart by my own father. And so you have a lot of good men who are hurting. And they're really, I don't think this is an uphill battle, Lewis.

They're ready to release it, man. They're tired. It's right here. The guy from Saturday Night Live just posted it. He doesn't want to live anymore, the actor. Men are tired, man. The emergency rooms now are seeing an influx of mental health issues because there's nowhere for us to go.

And so we're tired of being judged. The barbershops aren't even safe because everyone there is wearing the mask of masculinity. Putting up a front, making fun of each other, whatever. That's why I love your documentary, man. You did a great job because you allowed yourself to be vulnerable. You didn't boast in you being tough. You show what really happens when you're not really taking care of yourself

and living from what you really want to, you know, living from the heart within you. Yeah, thanks, man. So how do we, if someone has listened to this and they feel like, I'm tired, I've been suffering for too long, maybe I've got some past traumas, maybe I've been hurt, maybe I've hurt other people, maybe I've done things I'm not proud of, how can men start to process? What's the first couple of steps to, it's a lot of stuff that men have gone through and have been holding on to for a long time. Absolutely, yes. So how do we just, it's not that easy to be like, okay, I'm just going to let go.

That's true. I can easily say, you know, my best advice would be to get a long time. Absolutely, yes. So how do we just, it's not that easy to be like, okay, I'm just going to let go. That's true. I can easily say, you know, my best advice would be to get a counselor that you can trust. That would be number one. But we're not going to do that right off the bat. And so what I had to learn how to do was allow myself time to sit still and to allow myself to feel, you know. Why did it hurt you so much earlier when someone, just say, cut you off on a freeway or something?

If I don't process that at night, it carries over into the next day. So for men, I would say. For years and years. Exactly. And then the next situation, you may want to pull over and say, let's fight. Because you didn't allow yourself time. Right? I've almost got in a fight here in L.A. before I started, like, processing all this stuff i've almost got in a fight here in la

before i started like processing all this stuff you almost got to fight a lot of times for one time i was in traffic and i literally chased someone down like you serious this happened like what was this maybe five and a half years ago this is when i knew like my life was like something was wrong with me because I was driving a few blocks away. I don't think I told this story. I was driving, and when you stop at a stop sign, you typically look left to see who's coming. And I pulled too far forward,

and I guess there was a runner coming by on the right. So I turned, and he's coming up. And he stopped, but then he punched the car right because he was like why didn't you see me type of like action okay no that was a trigger that was like that was like abuse in the past trigger yes so he starts running i screech out of there and chase this guy down in my car right this is stupid i'm not proud of this i chase him down he starts running away i chase him down i started started running away. I chased him down. I started screaming at him like, stop, let's talk to man to man, right?

And then I finally like pull over and go after him. And he starts going the other way. And I was just like, it's a good thing he didn't come up to me because I probably wouldn't have had the control to like not want to fight him. And you probably wouldn't be here right now. Maybe. Yeah, I might be. So with that said, so imagine starting at home, sitting still, processing it there, and then being able to walk with it. So a lot in this country, a lot of training I've been through as far as meditation, a lot of people in this country thinks meditation is concentration, and it's not.

You should be able to be in that same state, seated, laying down, standing, and fighting. And people say, well, man, no, you're just a unique guy. No, I get angry when things like that happen, but I quickly start processing. It's like a computer. Is this worth it? Go down the line. This is it. Process your emotions. Are you feeling, is this accurate? Why would you go here? And before I even say anything, I can pull off. And so I would tell men to learn to sit still and express how you feel. Express the pain to say if you're married and your wife says something to you early at work. I always say I tell my men to always go to her before you go to bed. You know, I'm taught through the scriptures is do not let the sun go down on your wrath. You know, basically don't hold on to anger that long. Another proverb I love is like, anger is like hot coals in the lap

of a fool, only he gets burned. And so I would tell men first to sit still and process how you're dealing. How are you feeling? Why you felt that way? Write it down and revisit it so you can see and start tracing what triggered you. And that's the beginning steps. When I started to process all my past and all my hurt and pain, it was the first time I was able to go to sleep within a few minutes. My whole life, it would take me like an hour or two hours to go to bed. I would try to go to bed early. It didn't matter how hard I worked out or how tired I was, it was rare if I fell asleep within 10 minutes. And then about five years ago when I started

to fully process it all, and then at night, I would sit down and either to myself write down what I was grateful for from the day, or express it to my girlfriend at the time and say what I was grateful for. I was like, I could complete the day in peace and go to sleep as opposed to pain or fear, anxiety or anger, which is what I was living in for 25 years. Every time I come home and I lay down on my back, my legs folded and allow myself just to release everything that's happened. I'm okay. I've given

my best for the day. I'm not staying up late because I have to get up early and I'm done. It's finished. And so that's the benefit of being able to not be a slave to your emotions. Another one of my martial art instructors told me emotions are great servants, but poor masters. So I tell a lot of my students, they come, I'm tired. I don't feel like training this. I don't want to be here either, you know. I say, but when is the best time to be tired? They were like, at home when I'm laying down. I say, exactly. So you need to rule that emotion right now because it can injure you if you're acting, if you're lazy and someone is throwing you.

Another thing I'm really big on is applying emotional stability throughout our days. One of my pet peeves was when I go with my family to a nice restaurant and I get bad service. And so how many times do we leave a restaurant angry, didn't experience the night that we desired, and we didn't really articulate how we feel as men. We're mad. We eat. I'll never come back again. Let's get out of here. And we talk about it even all the way home. What I do now is when I see the waitress or waiter come over and I can tell they're not here. They're not present with me. They're either something happened with the last table or they may be having a bad day. I say, hi, excuse me.

I'm with my family and I'm really paying to have a great experience. And it seems like you have a lot on your mind. Can you please get someone else to help us? Because I really want my money's worth and I really want to enjoy my evening. My daughter can tell you, my wife can tell you. Every time I do that, they say, what's wrong? Can you, is something, you can see it on me? I'm like, yes.

Then they talk to me. My daughter's not doing well in school and I had to shake it off and come here and help, you know, serve people. And that's a hard job, man. You have to put everything aside. Your tips are based on your promptness and your attitude. But you have problems as well. So when I give them an opportunity to express it by me being able to express myself without being irate. Or making them wrong.

One guy was just so troubled about paying for school. And I said, look, man, you know, I don't want to infringe on what you believe. I said, but what's your faith? He says, I'm a Christian. I said, okay, cool. I said, me and my wife, we're going to act like we're ordering,

but we're going to pray. So we're praying, but we're acting like we're ordering food. We had the best experience ever. And he says, man, thank you so much. I needed that. My day is 100% better. But that's all because I learned how to express the emotion. And the same, like so many men want to be the best lovers to their wives, right?

I hate my daughter's hair what I should hear anyway. I always consider, you know, every man considers himself a great lover, right? Okay. But when you get married, okay, you know, you're making love to your wife, the same woman over and over and over again. What takes it to another level? So for me, I found, and my wife can testify to this, is when I became in tune with my emotions

and willing to be vulnerable, now we're able to connect on a much deeper level. She has, her experiences have heightened like three times. You know, I remember early in our marriage, we would use the little toys in the room, okay? And I didn't like those because to me it... They were Band-Aids. Not only that, it's like a replacement for me.

Like I can't really keep up with a rabbit toy, you know? I just can't. But what I learned, I decided, I said, wait a minute if this piece of whatever can do these things I'm a spirit man I can definitely take you there but it took for me to get in tune and free and not look at four players labor but love it's like that's my desire like I can't have make love my wife without, I don't know, I'd rather her reach that place because the connection is so much stronger. And once I became comprehensive and am able to express myself throughout every area of my life, man, it's a game changer.

And although you and I were discussing earlier, there will always be challenges. Sure. But the person that can rule their emotions can master them all. So how do we rule our emotions? Practice ruling them. For instance, I say everyone wants to, you want to get in shape, right? You want to have a six pack. And so for me, my desire is to remain faithful to my wife until we're gone. You know, I was on a plane coming in.

I saw an elderly couple holding hands, just comforting each other because there's turbulence. It's beautiful to me. But we know we have temptations. And so one day when I was trying to get cut up, I saw in my cabinet a bag of Lay's potato chips. I love Lay's, especially the plain ones, unopened. Because of my relationship with God, I am Lay's, especially the plain ones, unopened. Because of my relationship with God, I am a spirit man.

His spirit is in me. And so I walked by and said, well, you know what? Two chips won't hurt me. But he knows my desire. He said, wow, that's interesting.

If you can't deny those bag of Lay's, how are you going to turn down those Lay's? It's just chips. If I lose to that, how much easier will it be for me to lose to a woman that's beautiful and attractive? And say me and my wife get in an argument and this woman follows me on social media and knows everything what makes me tick. They can fake it all they want. Now it's so easy now because they can just

follow you. Say, okay, cool. I need to dress this way because he likes women who are modest. Oh, he's a man of God. Oh, I'm a Christian today. But I have to- Seduce you, yeah. Yeah. So again, we have many opportunities in life to practice ruling our emotions like road rage. You know, the guy cutting you off, it is not worth it. Learn to look down the road. You have to. In a matter of a second, you can't because you literally can lose your life.

Everything. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. Yeah, so. You started this nonprofit. Yes. Called The Cave. The Union is the nonprofit. The Cave of Adelam is the male academy.

It's under its umbrella. Gotcha. Yes. And when did that start? 2003, I started the nonprofit. Got it. And The Cave has been talked about, and it's been in TV shows and movies and examples of, I think it was in This Is Us, too, right? This Is Us, it was our father-son, we called it was in This Is Us, too, right? Yes, This Is Us.

It was our father-son, we called it the father-son up ceremony. Yeah, the ritual. Yes. It's very powerful. Thank you. And what is that ceremony? Can you explain? It's an initiation process.

So basically, we teach, train, and transform uninitiated boys into comprehensive men. And so I don't know if you've been initiated into manhood. Majority of us haven't. And that's why so many grown men are stuck doing childish things. And so we take them through a series of basic training. They have to learn things about, of course, it's faith-based for us. They learn things about God, the Bible, how to rule your emotions on that level as well as in the world. But then also we challenge them physically because I use the arts and physical training to break them down so the emotions can arise. And that's what I really want. And the beauty piece is that when they pass their part, they still have not completed the test until

their father comes on the mat and does the pushups with them. And so the fathers are really emotional because they desire that they wish they would have their fathers take them through this. So it's symbolic in saying that no matter what you go through, son, I'm going to be here with you throughout the journey, pushing you just like your dad, you know? And so, um, that's basically what the initiation is. And then once they pass there, they go through another five phases and then they go through a final test where they're honored by a community as being men. What's the final test? Secret.

Can you share it? You can share it, yeah. Well. The physical or emotional test? It's comprehensive in its approach. So they're trained on etiquette, grooming, basic construction skills. Of course, martial arts, a combination of jiu-jitsu, aikido, judo, boxing, just to test the emotions

because you can fake it in an intellectually based rite of passage program. You can do all the answers, answer all the questions, look the part, you're strong, you're ready to go, and now they send you off. Not in a cave of a delim. We're going to test you. We're going to see if you really know what you know. We want to see if you really can grow that emotion. And so we challenge them in that way. And so they leave there tested, meaning we have a saying, everyone has a moment on the mat. Everyone will face their greatest fears. Everyone

will face their insecurities. You cannot escape it. And so my whole thing is to give you the test now before you go in life and take the final exam. And so could you imagine as you go through all of these phases, the final test is you go through, you're tested on all of these phases. It's a two day training. And then you cross with your fathers in front of you. So yeah, it's powerful. Yeah, it's very powerful. And so, um, wow. Something I always desired.

And the reason, uh, people say, man, my, well, actually my son said this. He said, uh, dad, how you, how did you become a great dad when your father wasn't? I said, son, I simply gave you what I longed for. And so as men, broken men, you know, instead of living from our brokenness, start practicing living from what you've longed for. It's the saying Frederick Douglass says, it's easy to build up children or raise up children than it is to repair broken men. It's something like that. And I used to love that quote. The problem is I'm sure he didn't mean that we should leave men broken.

And that's what's happened in society. We focus on the boys and the children and the men. You just have to make it, fake it till you make it to your grave. And that's what men are doing. What would you say is your biggest insecurity still? Um... Dancing is one. I wanna dance, I wanna, like I was a DJ, believe it or not.

How can a DJ not know how to dance? But a DJ just has to mix. And so up here, I'm good. I can dance all day up here, you know? You mean the footwork, though. The footwork is like, okay, wait a minute. These have to move, too? You know, so there's insecurity of being laughed at.

You know, no one wants to be laughed at. In martial arts, the biggest issue with not executing a technique isn't that it's really complicated. It's the fact that you don't want to look nasty doing it. Every man wants to look good doing a certain technique, but that's the problem. You're leaving ego outside. And so I would say just being, you know, the dancing piece, but I don't know if that's an insecurity person.

Let me see. Don't you dance in martial arts, essentially? It is the same, you know. Me and my wife were messing around maybe a couple nights ago. I tried a little something, you know, but just that's something I'm going to work through.

So that's a prime example. Do I let that fear stop me? I can't because it plays out in other areas of my life. Let me think. What is an insecurity? I mean, honestly, man, still affirmation, man. Just to be transparent with you. What is an insecurity? Man, honestly, man, still affirmation, man.

Just to be transparent with you. What do you mean by that? Receiving affirmation? Okay, put it this way. So I trained in martial arts for over 22 years. Never attained my black belt in any of my disciplines. Still today? Still to this day.

Why not? Because my basis was trained in a system where they taught us what belts were for it really was never about the belt it was about the knowledge of self training yourself to become better and then but everyone wants that it's like getting a degree right it's like going to college for 20 years but never finishing. Yeah, so I didn't understand until now. I'm like, well, this hurts, God. Why have you denied me? But I could have fought through these things and

stayed with different arts. But it was a blessing that I learned a lot. You became comprehensive. Yes, comprehensive in my approach, but more so, now that I am here where I am, no one can take credit for what I do except God. And although it hurts that I am here where I am, no one can take credit for what I do except God.

And although it hurts me, even to this day, I find myself fighting to go back, because I love Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, that's my favorite now. But a mother told me this one day, she says, "'You gotta get yourself out of the way of those boys.'" What she was telling me is, "'You're living in the past, son. You have more than enough to do what you need to do. Another one of my martial art friends who was a black belt in jujitsu, he says, Jason, you don't need another belt rank. You need four walls. And when I listened

to him- What do you mean four walls? I need my own space to start teaching, get from underneath this system. How are you going to create something for now if you're training with dinosaurs? You have to evolve. That's another reason I love Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu because it evolves, it adapts. And I love the camaraderie and being around men, the struggle, the grapple, but I'm not to be uh the master of any art um i always say i'm not a martial artist i'm a man with a martial heart a man who can love without limits a man who won't allow the fear of being hurt to stop me from helping those who are hurting you know and so um i i you know I didn't grow up with a father,

man. So affirmation peace, I think will always be there. Um, but I'm thankful for brothers like you, you know, um, who, you know, your messages, you know, when you DM me is very encouraging, man, even though it's just something light, you say, check or whatever but just for you to reach out to me is affirming you know just so you would know that and and that's that's what I need you know you need it we all need absolutely and so a connection yeah and that's I would say that's still a sore spot in me interesting okay what's your biggest insecurity as a father now that your daughter has moved away yeah the big la city yeah um not being able to get to her in 20 minutes um as i wrote in my book um i used to try to be God in her life.

You used to try to be that. Basically controlling her destiny, making sure you can't. See, I was so religious, man, that she would have a vision or an idea. If it wasn't in the Bible, it wasn't from God. If it wasn't in the Bible, it wasn't from God. That's why so many kids run away from God and churches because it's like, this is condemning. It doesn't really, it's condemning. It's like, you got to do this, this and that. And then typically the person who judges that way don't even live that way. So here it is. I'm that way, trying to be controlling, worrying.

Like I can control what my daughter does. And I had to apologize and get out of God's way and say, hey, he created us all to be individuals. And it was very tough for me to even resolve in my spirit that she's going to be in L.A. But I had to learn that at every stage in life, we have to learn to let go. So when she was going into high school, I had to learn to let go. When she went to college, I broke down crying, packing my truck. I had to learn to let go. Now I got a beautiful daughter who's intelligent.

And I mean, she, when I mention your name, she, he's on my vision board. I'm like, because I may not agree with it doesn't mean it's not what you're supposed to do. You don't agree with her, me on her vision board? You the man. For her just being here, it's like, I know, I know. So what dad doesn't agree? What I need to let her know is I get your back. If it all doesn't go well, I get you a ticket today and you come home. Yeah, of course.

So just give them an opportunity. I'm a dad, man. I'm a protector, you know. I run through a wall for mine, you know. But it's not good for my health, So I have to learn how to express it, cry so that I can love. Because if I hold that in, she'll call me, oh, I don't want to talk to her, she's not listening to me, all that stuff. But when I can cry and release the stress hormones from out of my body, I'm able to reset emotionally and say, okay, let me look at this again.

And so, and that's how we're able to have a good relationship that we have now. How often do you think men should cry? Well, I tell you this, and this is interesting. So women, now that the book is selling pretty well, and this hasn't been released yet, they're messaging me saying, what can we do to help our men work through this? I say, get a lot of tissue, listen with compassion, and don't respond with condemnation because it's going to be a lot of crying. So I'm 48. I catch myself crying just thinking of something that hurt me. My mother just passed two years ago, which still isn't a long time. I think about my brothers not being here.

Like, man, he would be proud. That's worthy of tears. Yeah. Because it hurts. Dr. William Frey said that he discovered that tears contain stress hormones, tears that are due to emotional stress. That's why when we cry from emotional pain, we feel better typically afterwards. So many men, I say we need an emotional enema because we're backed up. And so once we have that enema as our women, you know,

and this is, and as you said earlier, it's unfortunate. It seems like our women always have to be there for us. You know what I mean? It's like you hear the stories, well, if it wasn't for my wife, I wish she stayed here when I was drinking and hanging out, partying. And you're like, okay, what about my issues? You know, and it's like, well, for African Americans, for instance, you know, I'm probably just two generations away from slavery. Wow. So how do I expect my father to know how to father? He doesn't.

I was talking to another friend of mine who's Irish-American. He talked about just the bravado that came with being Irish and how his fathers didn't love their mothers and things like that and how it affected him and how he has to work through his emotions. But then when you find out there's an old proverb, an Irish proverb that says, never trust a warrior who cannot cry. Then when you look at Sir Lancelot, the stories of him crying over, I can't think of the name of the woman he was in love with, or the samurai crying in war and then after war. So something happened in society, and it's really hard to pinpoint. But men crying, we should cry as often as we feel we need to.

It's no judgment, man. You know, the greatest warriors can cry in front of, you know, this is what's comical. So you can win, me and you can win the Super Bowl. We're playmates on the same team, players on the same team. We could cry. And no one says a word. But yet when I experience trauma, my friend gets shot or a relationship, a breakup, I get demoted from a job. This is what crushes my spirit. When I see my brothers from another mother, other ethnicity besides African Americans, specifically we say white, successful bankers,

and you hear it, they lose their job. Then they go home, kill themselves and their entire family. It's crazy. What's happened is that they can't release the pain. They've been put on this pedestal that they have to perform. There is no fail. So I lost my job. I'm done.

We're going to lose the college tuition. There's no reason to live. And that's a lie. Because you made it. There is a difference in our culture. lose the college tuition, all that stuff, there's no reason to live. And that's a lie. Because you made it. There is a difference in our culture. When I was a good friend trained in Aikido, he was telling me, it's different for

you. It's harder. You have to work harder. It seems like the system is against you. So you can lose your job and you come back. And he admired the fortitude. And I had to tell him, you can lose your job and you come back. And he admired the fortitude. And I had to tell him, you can lose your job and come back because you're able to manifest the work ethic to get it. You can get another job. It's not over. And until we as men, regardless of ethnicity, can say,

of ethnicity can say, okay, this does not define me. Me not winning a championship does not define me. Me not getting the pay raise does not define me. See, we allow this world to define what success is for us. My success, I've already succeeded. There is no failure anymore. I have a family, I have a beautiful daughter and son, and I'm healthy. I am successful. What should define us? In my opinion, who we really are. Who we are behind closed doors when no one is looking how the people see us and love us the person that I could be here and everyone say man that's a really cool guy man he said I would love to talk with him but if I go home and I'm a hole what is that so to me when those close to you when the

lights are off when no one is looking and you're the same person, you've arrived because it doesn't matter where you go. There is no pressure anymore. I'm free. I may have a little nervousness coming to an interview or whatever. But after a moment, I say, hey, what's the worst that could happen? I got my family. Even if I lost my family, just say the tragedy, God forbid. For me, being a spiritual man, I know I see him again.

You know, you can't threaten me with heaven. And so to find that place in life, every man desires it. We just have to learn to live from it. Wow. What would you say, Alexis, is the greatest lesson your dad ever taught you? It's so many. Well, I feel like I've adopted many things from him, even my vision statement, to be something that I haven't seen.

But to just be authentically me. Like if I can't be Alexis, then like you said earlier, like we don't need to be in relation with one another because I can't be myself. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I've learned so much, but I think the top thing that I admire is his ability to genuinely be him. Like, I feel like that plays a role in everything I do. If I can't show up as me, there's no point. Yeah, that's cool.

Wow, man. You do a great job with that. Showing up as me? Put it this way. Well, that's why I want to get to know you more. Yeah. Because I see other things, you know. I see a smile, but I see hurt.

Yeah. And I have hurt as well. The key is being able to process it and keep processing and keep releasing. It never goes away. I mean, it goes away. It's always there, and it's a reminder. And it could come back as pain if you don't continue to don't release it so continue to release it when it comes up yeah or again like a breakup i could grieve i'm really grieving for me losing my mother two years ago not really over a six-month relationship but it's compounded because i

haven't had time to really release yeah and so as helpful as you are to millions of people, I can tell you wake up like, man, I got to say something to inspire somebody. You're wired that way. My thing for you as your friend is to make sure my friend Louis is saying, hey, Jay, let's sit down. I just want to flush some things out. That's what I would want. That's admirable that you want to be some things out. That's what I would want. That's admirable

that you want to be a change agent for this world. But I want to make sure you're a change agent for Lewis. Absolutely. That's major, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, for sure. I have the awareness to have really good coaches and friends and spiritual mentors

that I lean on a lot. And talk with and process a lot with because i know that if i hold it in then i'm going to suffer and i know that i don't have all the answers and people are much wiser and more experienced than me so i'm always reaching out to them and you know i'm the same way i uh i listen to a child man you know um i don't know it all and i don't really want to know it all. I just want to learn and keep growing. It is a journey, but I said this in the video about suicide. just because something is wrong with you doesn't mean something is wrong with you. So just because I'm sad today or I'm depressed, many people shun those emotions because it's going to stop me from attaining my goal. I got to follow the seven steps to happiness.

I hope that's not a book. I'm just joking. I was just saying in general, what if that sadness or being depressed in that moment is to get you out of a bad relationship? But if you keep faking it. Get you to wake up and learn. Yeah. But if I got to stay happy, got to keep going, it's all good. You're going to miss that blessing that could come from you sitting still in that sadness. To say, wait a minute, why am I sad?

Oh, he said this, that was offensive. Or she did that, that was offensive. Or this happened with this business transaction. I shouldn't do that anymore or speak up in a way where they will know if that happens again, we're going to have to cut negotiations. Yeah, yeah. I love this, man.

I'm going to make sure you guys get this book. It just came out recently. Or it's pre-ordered right now? It's pre-ordered now. Actually, this, man. I'm going to make sure you guys get this book. It just came out recently. Or it's pre-ordered right now? It's pre-ordered now. Actually, I'm sorry. It's available at Barnes & Noble. There you go. It's called Cry Like a Man, Fighting for Freedom from Emotional Incarceration. It's funny because

I've spoken out of prison a few times. I've actually visited a prison many times. My brother, who you'll meet, he's actually here. He was in prison for four years. And you saw him perform, I think, on stage. Yes, I sure did. Yes, yes. And so I would visit him every weekend for four years when I was a child, eight years to 12 years old. And so I would go to a prison, and I've been in a prison here in California in the last year, a few times to do some workshops on the mask of masculinity. in California in the last year, a few times to do some workshops

on the mask of masculinity. And it was always fascinating to be in a prison because sometimes there are men behind bars who are emotionally free. Not all of them, but you meet some that are so at peace and are emotionally free and are able to cry with their families there and are able to express their feelings finally.

And there are men who are in the outside world who are prisoners in their hearts and their minds. And, you know, there's nothing worse than being free physically but emotionally trapped. You know, we cry. It just looks different. It may not be physical tears. It's pornography, addiction to pornography, we cry. It just looks different. Yeah. It may not be physical tears.

It's pornography, addiction to pornography, alcoholism, spousal abuse. Drugs, whatever, yeah. It's going to come out. So why not allow it to come out the healthy way? Yeah. And that's what's happening, man. You know, we was doing a study on, like, mass murderers and violent crimes. And it was interesting, the few times we saw women, like it's very rare you see a woman mass murderer, okay?

We started noticing it was in tandems. It was a man and a woman. Right. I mean, this is some interesting stuff. And so could you imagine if men learned how to process these emotions before they go grab a gun and go shoot up a place? They probably wouldn't shoot up a place. They just need a way to process.

It was a guy who I don't even want to name him. He killed an elderly man on Facebook Live. And he says it because I teach about it in my workshops. He says, man, I know this is something. He was on Facebook Live and he killed someone? He killed the guy. Oh, my gosh. It's called the Easter Massacre or something.

Oh, my gosh. But he said, he's deceased now, but he said, this is some punk stuff, man. And in the video, he's ranting that people wouldn't listen to him. My girl just shuts me off, ignores me, and that's why I'm going to go on this killing spree. He literally says that. And so I'm not saying that's why all mass murderers do what they do, but in those cases, you need an outlet, man.

That's it. If you don't have an outlet, you'll create an outlet. You're going to create one, and now look at you. And so, like I say, crying like a man isn't about just shedding tears. It's about releasing the emotional pain and trauma we've held in our heart and our minds for years. Setting yourself free.

Yes, sir. You've got some amazing chapters in here. I really enjoyed going through it. I'm going to finish the rest of it soon, but powerful stuff. Make sure you guys get it, Cry Like a Man. Final few questions for you. This one's called the three truths. I want you to imagine it's your final day here

on this physical earth. You get to pick the day many years from now. Could be a thousand years, could be whatever you want it to be. But you get to leave the world with three final truths or lessons that you've learned. No one has access to your work anymore your videos your content you've got to take that with you but you get to write down on

a piece of paper three things you know to be true that would be the only thing you get to leave behind what would you say are three truths Peace is within you. That's number two. And number three, family is a blessing. I never had it growing up. So I cry now because I'm so thankful that I have it. Growing up and all you hear is, you know, you go through so much violence, you lose loved ones to gunshots, gun violence, and just not having a home, a traditionally stable home. Everything is an adventure. And to have that for my kids and experience the love from a woman who loves me for who I am. Family is a blessing. And I don't want men to miss it because of their hurt and their pain and their insecurities.

It is the greatest blessing a man could ever have. Everyone wants to be wealthy, wants to create generational wealth, but you can't create one without a family. It's the greatest blessing God has ever given us. That's great. Those are powerful. Thanks, man. If there was a microphone in front of you right now and every man in the world got to put on headphones and listen to you say something to all the men of the world? A message. One message. The switch turned on and they can hear you. What would be that message? Be free. Be human. Express yourself. Live from the love that you feel and not the fear. Be free. Be human.

That's what I would tell them because every man feels it. We're human beings. Stop allowing masculinity. Stop misconstruing masculinity with humanity. Restoring masculinity with humanity. Live from your heart, love, and watch how much freer you'll become. That's what I would tell men. That's good, man. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Jason, for just being the example, being the father that the world needs. Because I know that you didn't have the relationship with your father or the example that you wanted.

And you're creating that for so many young boys, men, myself. And you're being an example of what's possible for us in this generation, in this time of mental confusion, emotional confusion, sexual confusion, stress, anxiety. So I just want to acknowledge you for your heart, your kindness, your love, your generosity to humanity. It's very powerful. And you're setting a great example for me as well. So I appreciate that. That means a lot. Of course, man. Where can we connect with you online? My handle is at Mr. Jason O. Wilson. And for the Cave Over Delamont, they wanted to know more. But actually, just go to crylikeaman.com. And eventually the cave over Delamont, they wanted to know more.

But actually, just go to crylikeaman.com. And eventually, that's going to be a hub for mental and emotional health services for men, resources. A safe space where we can really be free. Crylikeaman.com. You can get the book there. You can follow you there. You can see everything. Final question.

What's your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is the same as success every person has to define it for me it is being a servant of God a loving husband a faithful father and a community servant man a lot of people congratulate me by with a lot that's going on. It's not really celebratory to me because I'm on a mission. To me, this opportunity is like God dropping a pallet of ammunition in the middle of a battlefield. I'm not, yeah, hey, I'm not doing that. I have my rifle or whatever, M16 or AR-15. I'm running to get this ammunition to go help more boys, men, and families. And so I'm content. I'm taught to be content in all

things. Does that mean that I don't strive for additional things? No, but I don't burn out chasing anything anymore like I used to. I'm okay with going to sleep if the five other things didn't get done. So success for me is having a family and being content, man. Life is too short to be chasing the world. Jason, appreciate it. There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. Such a powerful, moving, inspiring, and emotional interview with my friend, Jason Wilson. Make sure to share this with your friends, lewishouse.com slash 745. All the show notes and information is there, the YouTube video, everything else. You can get his book, Cry Like a Man. Check it out right now.

It's a powerful read. And give it to a man in your life as well. Buy a couple of copies for some friends. And to bring things back to the beginning of this interview, Helen Keller said, although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it. It does not matter what you've been through. It doesn't matter how much you've suffered. You have the ability to rewire your emotions, to change the story about what has happened to you so that you are in control and have the power back in your life. And those situations and traumas don't have power over you. I love you so very much. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there

and do something great.