The School of Greatness - 760 Terry Crews on Success, Accountability, and Toxic Masculinity

Episode Date: February 18, 2019

YOU ARE WORTHY OF LOVE. So many of us hide who we truly are. We bury our shame thinking that if anyone knew we would no longer be accepted. But living this way keeps us from connecting with others. It keeps us from truly experiencing life. I kept my history of abuse hidden for a long time. It wasn’t until I told my story that I could become the person I am today. You have to forgive yourself. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about shame with a person of great courage and integrity: Terry Crews. Terry Crews is an actor, activist, artist, and former NFL football player. He plays “Terry” on Brooklyn 99 and is now a host on America’s Got Talent. Terry was included among the group of people named as Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 2017 for going public with stories of sexual assault. Terry has a powerful way of talking about what it means to be a man. We all can benefit from hearing his story. So get ready to learn all about guilt, shame, and toxic masculinity on Episode 760. Some Questions I Ask: What’s the biggest mistake that was the hardest to forgive yourself for? (5:30) What’s your view on forgiving toxic men? (55:00) How did you learn to forgive yourself? (1:00:00) What do love most about your wife (1:05:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: About Terry’s history of addiction (14:00) Why men need intimacy (21:00) The three stages of every man’s life (28:00) The difference between shame and guilt (31:00) The definition of toxic masculinity (40:00) About Terry’s #metoo moment (45:00)

This is episode number 760 with Terry Crews. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Louis B. Smedes said, to forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner

was you. Welcome to this inspiring episode. We've got Terry Crews in the house. I am so pumped. I met Terry about a year and a half ago when I came out with The Mask of Masculinity book launch. And Terry and I got connected. We met for dinner and had an amazing conversation. And I just said, dude, I can't wait till I get you on the show because people need to hear your story. It's mind blowing the things he's been through, the challenges he went through as a kid, what he did in football. For those who don't know, he's a former NFL football player. He's an actor, an activist, an artist, one of the most talented artists I've seen. I mean, this guy commissioned artwork to make extra money when he was playing in the NFL, and his art is world class. He is the host of America's

Got Talent. He's a star on the sitcom Brooklyn Nine-Nine. He did one of the best commercials of the decade, if you ask me, as the Old Spice guy. I don't know if you guys remember these commercials, but he pretty much made the brand and blew it up with these commercials he did. He's been in a bunch of movies, Friday After Next, White Chicks, which was hilarious, and so many more movies, shows, and everything else in between. This guy has done it all, and he is just getting started. And in this interview, we talk about how Terry reveals everything about his marriage and how he almost destroyed his relationship. We talk about toxic masculinity. We talk about the Me Too experience from Terry being harassed in Hollywood. We talk about keeping yourself

accountable, having other people keep you accountable, and forgiveness when people make mistakes, including yourself. We talk about going over the importance of shame versus guilt, and we discuss the importance of supporting other people who are suffering. Terry's got a ton of energy. You're going to feel this in the episode. If you're not a subscriber to the YouTube channel, make sure to subscribe over on youtube.com slash Lewis Howes. So you can see his passion and his energy. Probably one of the best dressed men I've ever met as well. This guy is a champion and is doing so much good for the world. I'm so excited for this one.

Make sure to share it with your friends. lewishouse.com slash 760. Let's spread this one far and wide and spread some positivity in the world to your friends. Again, a big thank you to our sponsors. And I'm so excited about this one. Make sure to share it with your friends. Tag me. Tag at Terry Crews over on Instagram while you're listening. Without further ado,

let's dive into the one, the only Terry Cruz. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the iconic, legendary Terry Cruz in the house. My man. So pumped about this. Thank you. We met about a year and a half ago after my book came out. I think someone maybe told you about what I was up to. We started connecting. We had dinner.

And I just fell in love with you. So even more than your persona on TV and movies and commercials, I was just like, here's a man of integrity. Here's a man who is speaking the truth. And here's a man who hasn't had a perfect life from childhood, but also has made a lot of mistakes as a man. And you talk about that in your book and publicly about how you've made tons of mistakes in your marriage, with your kids, parents, with other things, right? What do you think has been the biggest mistake that was the hardest for you to forgive yourself that you did? First off, we're getting deep for it.

Oh, yeah, let's go. No, let's go. First of all, being unfaithful to my wife. Let's give you a little background on this whole thing. My wife and I, we've been married 30 years now. As of July, it'll be 30 years. And I got married the day before my 21st birthday. Wow. You didn't even know who you were.

Oh my God. You know what I mean? You're like, oh, somebody likes me? Marry her. You know what I mean? And let me tell you, man, it's weird because you don't know why you do things. Okay. Especially in my culture. And I want to specifically talk about African-American culture. Therapy was looked at as something that meant you were crazy. And it was like, the whole thing is, I'm not crazy. Why would I go to the therapist? And what was so wild is my father was super abusive, okay? He was very abusive to my mom, my family, the whole thing.

He was an alcoholic. Physically, emotionally. Everything, man. Just, emotionally. Everything, man. Just, just, just, man. Nothing was good to him until it was wrecked. Like, anything, if you were having fun, he wanted to suck all the air out of the room. And even to this day, you're like, if you're five minutes having fun, he comes in, it's like, oh my God.

He just, it's that, it's that narcissist, it's It's that guy who just does not like when everyone else is happy. Yeah. So that was one of the things that I learned. And he went to a therapist one time. And when I was a kid, the therapist killed himself. He literally jumped off a bridge. Wow. And I was like, my father went to him, and I'm like, this guy is done.

So in my head, I'm like, you know what? It doesn't work. So I said, we got to fight it out. We just got to do it and make our way and do our thing. But when I was about, I would say maybe nine, nine years old, eight, nine years old, I was exposed to pornography. And I developed an addiction immediately simply because you have numbing mechanisms, things that can get you through. Now, I didn't drink.

I wasn't on drugs. You know, I was a sports guy. But man, porn was like, if I saw it, it was oh my. And this is back when you had pornography in the grocery store. Wow, yeah. I mean, people were still experimenting. People were like, it was, oh my. And this is back when you had pornography in the grocery store. Wow, yeah. I mean, people were still experimenting. People were like, it was Playboy days and the whole

thing. I remember my mother would send me in to go get some milk and there was Playboy and Hustler. It wasn't wrapped up in plastic. Oh, it was right there, right next to people. It was like, and I remember just going, what? And she used to come in like, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Put that down. I'll put it down. But see, that's the kind of toxic kind of thing that was ingrained in me from a young age. But also, my mother was addicted to religion. You got to understand, Louis, when I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to play sports. I wasn't allowed to go to the movies, listen to secular music, dance. Only thing we did was go to church. So you're talking about I had two people that were opposite extremes in the house, and I was stuck in the middle.

And what was crazy is that I had to please both of them at all times. So I was the good kid. I mean, it was like my father would come in. Oh, my God, we got to just straighten up this house. We got to do the thing. You want something to drink? Here's your beer. What do you want?

Just stay out of his way. Get everything right. Make sure you iron your clothes because he hates when you don't iron your clothes. I mean, just that kind of panic. You had to please him constantly. Oh, my God, just idiot. If he looked at you funny, you're like, what's wrong with me? Right. You know what I mean? That was the thing. It had to please him constantly. Oh my God, just idiot. If he looked at you funny, you're like, what's wrong with me? You know what I mean?

That was the thing. It was never a love look. I never got a look of like, man, I love this guy. I'm proud of you. Listen, I will never forget, man. I remember when he was drunk and he was just sitting there and doing his thing and he looked at me. I was a kid, man.

I remember I walked up and kissed him on the cheek because I was like, this is my dad. I want to show him I love him. He looked at me like, he looked at me with such disgust. Wow. And disdain. I said, I will never do that again. I felt so much shame. I remember, I'll never forget it to this day, man. I'm 50 years old. I was like, oh, my God. That look he gave me was like, what is wrong with you? And I was like, I'll never do that again. Wow. And then the religious aspect, because I really could never please my mother, because the big thing with her was that you had to be saved.

Now, in the church I went to, you had to get saved all the time. Every week. You had to be saved every week. And i went to you had to get saved all the time every week every week and it was like okay give your life to jesus every week if you knew one sin now the one thing that blew everybody away is back in the day the whole concept was the rapture that god is going to come back and he's going to take all his saints and and all the sinners are going to be left and okay when i'm nine you didn't really explain the whole thing to me. Because they said, anybody who's left here, your head's going to get cut off. This is the way they did it. Your head's going to get cut off, and they're going to be blading in the streets.

Put fear in you. Oh, they're going to throw you in a kiln. And let me tell you something. I mean, they would tell us this. And they were like, so you want to be good. So this is the deal. I used to have nightmares tell us this and they were like, so you want to be good. So this is the deal. I used to have nightmares, nightmares as a kid. I literally wet the bed till I was 14 years old because of the violence that was happening, but also just panicked feeling of

I'm never good enough. I'm never going to make it. And you know, I I think I told a lie did I tell I don't know Oh my I gotta get saved again Wow, so you have this pressure and I remember just feeling like I was spinning and There was a it was it was a what you would call a holy roll in church So what would happen is when? Music would play people would feel the spirit and my friend would be sitting next to me You start jumping up and down everybody's running around I mean literally sprinting around the church. And the music is going, the whole thing.

And I was like, oh, my God, I want this. Like, how do I get this? Like, how do I, can I, can I, can I have it? And the preacher got up there and he said, you know what? If you don't feel nothing, you must not have nothing. Wow. See, this is words I'll never forget. And I went, no, no, no, no.

And I was like, and so I was instantly wrong. Like I was instantly, I would go home like, I don't feel it. I'm not feeling like jumping. I can't. And then I found out later that these people were manufacturing all this stuff. The pastor that told us that later,

I found out was selling drugs out of the pulpit and had girlfriends all over the church. And then I found everything. It was like this lie that I was living. You know what I mean? But this was the thing. To escape pornography. Right. That helped you numb the pain and feel something.

It was no wrong in porn. And I was like, oh, they're so beautiful. This is like, oh. And I was like, oh, they're so beautiful. This is like, oh. And I just would numb out. And then, see, that was back in the day when cable just started. So they had like these little channels, Playboy channel and the whole thing. And you could, back then, you could actually put the, they would scramble it. But if you held the channel, you remember.

If you held it in between, it was clear. It's like half the screen. Oh, you can't. And I would do that every, I mean, it was like porn every night. You know what I mean? I was like, anytime anybody was watching, it was like, oh. And it became a stronghold. But I never told my wife.

And I thought, this was the thing. When I met my wife, and I met my wife in church, and she was the best woman I've ever seen in my life and I was like I can't believe a woman like this would love me I I can't believe it well she didn't know about you she didn't know your shame I told her as much as I felt she could tolerate I remember just kind of you know I you know I used to watch this porn it was crazy she was like oh crazy. She was like, oh, really? And I was like, yeah, but I don't do that anymore. You know what I mean? But this was the thing.

I thought, once I get married, it's going to be gone. What's going to be gone? The porn addiction? Porn addiction. I thought, oh, all I need is a real woman, and I'll be fine. See, that's the problem. I just need to cover it all up. But I never dealt with it.

And what happened was we spent, during our first year of marriage, I mean, literally months later, I was back. And I remember, because back in the day, you didn't have internet. There would be bookstores. Videotapes. Videotapes, stuff like that. And I was just like, man. And I would feel so much shame. Lewis, I remember every time I was like,

I'll never do this again. I will never do this again. Two days later, back at it. And you just feel like, and then I just said, you know what? Everybody's lying. Then you kind of get rectified where you go, you know what?

Everyone is like this. So everyone has a double life. I get it now. Everyone, you just have to keep the image. Got it. Right. You understand what I mean? So I was just like, all right, the image is all I need to keep. And of course, you know, we all, we can't really keep, you know, we can't really do be that good. So as long as you keep your image up, you'll be fine. And I did that. For how long?

For the next 20 years. Wow. 20 years. Now, what happened is I was in Vancouver and it was my first time working. I had spent seven years in the NFL. My wife had went to the NFL with me. We'd been doing all this stuff because again, with this kind of pleasing kind of attitude, you can go really far. You can get really successful doing this stuff. You become a machine. I was the workout king. I was the business king.

I was the pro. I was going to make it to the NFL. I was going to do whatever I put my head to because you're motivated by, you're kicked into your future. Like, everything is like you beat yourself up. Ba-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka. In fact, I'm going to work out double. In fact, I'm going to do triple

the work. I'm going to do, I got to make it. You don't take no for an answer. You are now so competitive, so like my whole mindset was now I'm going to destroy everyone. That was what it is. I literally, but I would smile now I'm going to destroy everyone. Everyone, yeah.

That was what it is. I mean, I literally, but I would smile and I would be very friendly. But you were competing against everyone. But the whole thing was, it was a ploy. Yeah. You know what I mean? And this was the thing. I finally started acting. And my first job, I was in Vancouver.

And I knew I was no good. Like, because you feel like a farce. It was imposter syndrome times 100 because first movie I ever auditioned for, I got, it's a big Schwarzenegger movie, I'm on it, and I'm sitting there and I would go back, and it was so bad. I remember they told me,

they were like, Terry, we're not going to use you for a couple weeks. You can actually fly back home. I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm going to stay. I'm going to stay. And they were like, well, you don't have to. I'm going to stay. I'm going to stay. And they were like, well, you don't have to. I'm going to stay because I'm thinking I'm going to get cut or something like that.

But I want to go and prove that I was going to be the best actor of all time. Dude, so I'm up there and I'm in a tailspin. I'm lonely, I'm hungry, I'm angry, and I'm tired. You're not working. Dude. I decide, and I had been watching pornography. I decide for the first time to go to a massage parlor. And I'd heard about things, but she's like, well, I'll just, no, I'll go get a massage.

You know, you justify. Right, right, right, right. You literally justify. I went there and was unfaithful. And I was like, let me tell you, when it was over, I remember going back to my room and I was like, I crossed the line. Wow. Like the line had been crossed, man. Like, even thinking about it now, it was so dark. You know what I mean?

I remember just going back in the room, and I went back, and I was like, how did I do that? You know, it's funny, because once you've been, once you're caught out there, and the big trick is, it's right, you know, this is going to give you something, this is going to do something for you. And then you realize you've been duped. And I was in that room and I was like, man, how can I do this? How can I do this? And I said, okay, okay, Terry, keep this secret forever. I literally said, I'm going to die with this. Wow. I am going to die with this. And I never told her.

I mean, and what was weird, it affected everything I did. How so? I would go home, and my wife would go, you know, we'd see something, or it'd be a movie about someplace, cheating or whatever. She was like, you know what? I see something. It would be a movie about something. It was cheating or whatever.

She was like, you know what? I'm glad you didn't ever do something like that. And you feel something in your heart, yeah. And you'd be like, yep, yep. Anything she would question me about, I would start arguments so that they wouldn't get that deep. Why do you think? Listen, you don't have any. I would never do anything like that.

Why would you even think that? And it was projection. Lots of anger. And the porn never stopped. Really? Because it's not exposed. And this is the thing. She never knew who I really, really was. And I felt like, my God, if I ever tell her, if I show her, she's gone.

Wow. So it was a farce. So the fear of losing the best thing you ever had, your family, your relationship, your marriage, if you told her, but you had to hold the pain in and hold the shame in, and you felt like you could never tell her, so it was like, either way, you lose.

It was all loss, so I decided, Terry Crews ain't gonna lose. He's gonna fake it. Yeah, yeah. You know what I decided, Terry Crews ain't going to lose. He's going to fake it. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? No matter what. But then it all came crashing down. Now, you got to understand, like, I never went back to a massage parlor.

But, again, pornography, there was, like, these places where you could go and there would be strip clubs and this kind of thing. And I was just like, well, it wasn't as bad as what I did before. So you start, again, you rationalize and you go, well, I'm just a guy. Or then you start an argument with her. And then you go, well, look, you know what I need and you're not giving it to me. Just all this kind of justification is what I could say. And so you feel like, well, I'm not as bad as him. And dude, she knew the whole time.

Because every time you do it, you're not close. It's like you put a new brick in between your relationship. There's a new seal off. And this is one thing I discovered. You know, intimacy is what a man is looking for. I mean, we need intimacy. And what intimacy is, is when you can see me for who I really, really am and accept me and love me for who I am for real. But as guys, if we never show who you really are, how are you going to ever get intimacy?

So it's for real. It's like you're literally yelling from behind a wall saying, how do I look, honey? Yeah. And she's like, I can't see you. But you're like, thank you. All right. Yeah, I'm great. Thanks. And you're like, I can't see you. But you're like, thank you. All right. Yeah, I'm great. Thanks.

And you're like, no. If you show who you really are now, you can deal. But I had a wall. And she was just like, what? She's like, Tarian? It was this night. We call it D-Day. It's really, we're going on the anniversary of it because it was around February 4th

2010. Wow. Coming up. It's coming up. And I remember the Super Bowl was coming up and I remember it was a snowstorm in New York City. I was in New York, she was in LA. So you've been together for how long now? We have already been 20 years.

20 years? 20 years. She didn't know who you were. Did not know. Wow. Again, she had suspicion. Yeah, of course. She knew. Exactly.

And again, I was covering tracks. But man, she was like, what is it I don't know about you, Terry Crews? Another thing I have to say is that I was very successful. Yeah. I was very successful. You were rising. Oh, my God. Dude, I'd already been

through the NFL, already done all these movies and TV shows and this kind of thing. Commercials, yeah. Commercials. And this is one thing I tell people all the time

is that success is the warmest place to hide. Ooh. It's so warm in here because, first of all, remember, the image is the warmest place to hide. It's so warm in here. Because first of all, remember, the image is the most important thing. So if the image is good, people are automatically like, he's good. He's got a wife, he's got kids, he's got this, he's got that. Oh my God, he looks great.

But inside, I knew what I was doing. I knew that my crap hadn't been exposed. And she knew. So finally, she came to me that night. And I was at the Mercer Hotel right there in Soho. Never forget it, man. In fact, I've never stayed in a Mercer since then. Simply because it was just that, the reminders.

So it's such a dark place. I actually have to redeem that place. You know what I mean? To go there on the 10th anniversary. Yeah, you know what I mean? Right, and redeem it. But what's so crazy is that she said, Terry, this blew me away. It cracked my egg, man. She said, what is it I don't know about you, Terry Crews? Because we had been arguing all night.

And those words, I remember just hanging up. And then I laid there in the bed, and I was like, you know what? Keep the lie. Keep the lie. Don't tell her. And something told me, man, and I ain't going to tell you. I don't even have to tell you what. It was like the universe.

People could call it was God. It was Jesus. It was whatever runs the world said to me, Terry Crews, if you don't tell her, I'm going to leave. Wow. Now, I was just like, wait a minute. Like, I've been, it was almost like, he was like, I've been dealing with you forever, giving you a shot to tell you, to really be honest. You know what? I'm done with you. And I felt so alone.

It was, man, Lewis, I can't even describe. It was, again, it was a snowstorm going on. was like everything was dark dark dark and i'll never felt that darkness anything like that ever again it was the only thing i could compare it to was 10 years earlier when i was in vancouver wow it was like the whole thing came back full circle i mean years later right i called her up. We talk again. And I told her, Lewis, I'll never forget the gasp on the other end of the line. It was like, oh, no.

She said, oh, my god. She said, Terry, don't come home. You don't have a home to come to. Holy cow. My life was over. Wow. My life was over. That right there, I was like, and then I kind of,

and this is a strange thing, Lewis. You know what I was like? I felt relief. I said, good. You got it off your chest. You know what? Go ahead and leave then. Right.

Then you probably weren't with me in the beginning. Uh-huh. Again, I still didn't want to give it up. I was like, you know, I'll just find me another girl, and now I'll just start over, because I'm successful. I'm successful. I already have it. Because see, just the thing, Louis.

Hollywood doesn't care if you lose your family. No. In fact, they're like, look, now we can book you for more movies. Right. You have more time. Yeah, now you have way more time. Now you're all good. And I was like, OK.

You know, I'm good. Fine. And then all of a sudden, again, that voice was like, OK, Terry, but it's still you. It's still your problem. You now have no family. All you have is an image that's fake. And some success and some money. And I said, oh, my God.

And he said, Terry, you have to hold yourself accountable. you have to hold yourself accountable. And I was like, it sunk in on me that I knew. I said, oh my God. And then I called a friend because it was dark. And I was like, man, my wife left me and she's done with me and the whole thing. And he said, Terry, look, I cannot guarantee you or promise you that your wife will ever come back. But you have a problem. And you have to get better for you. And that's it. He said, I can't make any promise. Cause I was like, I was like, you know, look, I got, I told her and everything. So now I'm supposed

to get everything back. Right? No. And so I was like, I see it. I see it. And it was like a cracked egg. It was like this whole life. Like, one thing I realized is that at certain times in a man's life, he's either a fool, he's a victim, or he's a king. And when you're a fool, you're like, you goof it all up. You know, ah, well, you know. But you think there are no consequences for your actions. But there are always consequences for every act you do. Everything.

Good or bad. But then when you mess your whole life up, being a fool, you become a victim. Now, oh, my God, look, you know what? You know why I did that? Because I was black. You know why? Because I grew up in all that religion. And my father was an alcoholic. You know, he beat my mom. You know that I did that? Because I was black. You know why? Because I grew up in all that religion. And my father was an alcoholic.

You know, he beat my mom. You know that, right? Or look at the situation. I'm from Flint, Michigan, man. It's hard for a black man in this society. And this is the way we did it. I had, and let me tell you, the table is always full of excuses. Because they're valid.

There's a lot of people against you. And you can say, oh my God, this table is full. It's like, man, this is the reason why I'm like this. And this is, this is, and man, you never run out. And you always stay down. Always. You always, but the king stage is when you realize, wait a minute, this is your table. Wait a minute, this is your room. You have to accept whatever you are letting into your life, good or bad. As a king, you can tell people,

get out of your court. As a king, you don't have to accept any of those excuses. As a king, you have to know that you are responsible for your life, good and bad. You did that. So as a king, if something's not right, it's your responsibility to change it. Dude, it was like, I had to go to rehab. I went to rehab. It was this place called Psychological Counseling Services, it was in Arizona,

I mean, yeah, in Arizona, in Phoenix. And man. How long did you go for? Oh man, well, you go for a full, it's like an intensive. Yeah. Where you don't do anything. You're there for like 16 hours a day. This is 2010?

This was, yeah, it was 2010. So, and my wife told me she thought I would never, ever do anything like that. Wow. Listen, we had been going to therapy, but when you're not honest, it doesn't work. You just tell them the game and whatever. Dude, I went in there and I was like, this ain't me. This ain't me in the first couple hours. I'm like, come on. This is crazy.

Then all of a sudden, I like oh my god this is me wow this is me this is the problem this is what I this is the issue I knew I was in tears I was I was broke I was like I was toxic like when you finally can turn the thing around and see yourself as ugly as you were, I was just so, so guilty. Let me tell you, it wasn't shame. It was guilt. There's a big difference. What's the difference?

Shame says you are bad. Guilt says you did something wrong. I was feeling shame since I was a kid. Yeah. And this is the thing. When you are a shamed person and when you try to motivate people through shame, what you're doing is constantly telling them

you are a bad person. You are like this. You are wrong. You are messed up. So you know what happens is no matter where you go, you go back to I am messed up. But when you realize, wait a minute, wait a minute.

It's not that I messed up. It's that I made a messed up choice. Yeah. That changed the framework for me. And I was like, it didn't excuse anything, I mind you. It did not. It was you are. I had to say it.

And the thing is, it's like courtroom, like a court. For you to actually be guilty, you have to say it. Think about it. There's nobody, if you never admit guilt, it will never be presented. You have to say, I am guilty. Wow. I did the crime. And it allows everyone to see you as you truly are.

And I went through the process of guilt, of making sure I was guilty. I knew what, I said, I put my wife through this. I put my family through this. I did this. I did this.

Now let me correct it. But see, shame, you can't correct. Shame is incorrectable. You can't, there's nothing. What happens is shame, you just cover it. Shame is something you just put, you know, let's put some leaves over here and put leaves over the body. You know what I mean? It's like, there's no way you can really, shame is one of those things where you just have to like color it. Image covers shame. But when you are dealing with guilt now, you've been proven guilty. Now there's punishments.

You have to make amends. Consequences, yeah. Right, you have to be accountable. There's all kinds of things, man. You have to come back. You have to forgive people who did things to you. You have to ask forgiveness for what you did to other people. Let me tell you. And I have to say this.

The forgiveness that my wife showed me was, when I say, a card-carrying lesson for any person ever. Because I don't understand why people get divorced. I do. First of all, I should be. But this woman, this is the thing, this is the intimacy that I always, always wanted, because she saw me for who I was, for real. And she said, Terry, I love you anyway.

Wow. Man. Wow. That's all you want. Yeah. That's all I ever wanted. All I ever wanted was to be seen for who I was. And I was like, you love me?

I thought it was real. I was like, you love me? Like, I thought it was real. I was like, I thought she wouldn't come back. But she did. She said, but Terry, I love you. And man,

that blew me away. Yeah. Because I was living this man life and here I am. You see me as nothing. I'm like, I'm feeling about myself.

Like, I feel like I'm worth dirt. And she was like, oh, I'm feeling about myself. Like, I feel like I'm worth dirt. And she was like, oh, I love you. And man, that changed everything. It was like the thing that I needed, I was running from the whole time, Louis.

I was running from it the whole time. And I vowed. I said, after that, I said, my God, my God, I can correct this. This is fixable. This is fixable. This is not something, and this is what I learned through counseling,

and I continue to this day. I mean, it's been 10 years of constant, constant work. Constant just, hey man, I can fix this. Wait a minute. And this is why when I talk about toxic masculinity, I'm talking about me. I'm not in the game to be like, look at you guys, and let me tell you about you and what you've been doing. Hold on, I'm talking about me. First of all, when people clown me about, oh, man, oh, yeah, you got molested, I would have been the guy who did that stuff.

I would have been the guy like, man, you too big to get, man. You just go to smack somebody and get out of here. I would have been that person. So I'm never, ever pointing the fingers at another man as if you need to get it together, brother. I'm not spreading shame. But I am saying we need to say we're guilty. Wow. We need to say what it is we did wrong.

And this is the only way. The only way I can really... Because right now, in our society today, we have a big thing about apologies. You know, hey, I said I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry. So now, you gotta forgive me, and let's keep going.

The only way I can really, really kind of put this thing down is when it's like driving drunk. You hit somebody in a car. You get out of the car. Hey man, sorry. Yeah. And then you get back in the car and drive away. First of all, that is today's version of an apology.

But what we're talking about, accountability, is totally different. Yeah. Accountability is you stay there with that person you hit. Accountability is the police come. You've been driving drunk. You get arrested. Accountability, you police come. Mm-hmm. You've been driving drunk. You get arrested. Accountability, you lost your license. Accountability, you're paying fines and you're paying for the person you hit and you are

paying for their recovery. Yeah, you might be in jail for some time. You might have to- You might. Listen, you'll be cleaning up on the side of the freeway for about six months. For months, yeah. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter what status you are.

That's accountability. You pay the price. And accountability says, it says now we can get back to even here. Now it's about amends. Some balance, yeah. You know what I mean? And that's what I have dedicated my life to doing. Yeah.

My life. It's funny because when I look at even the massage parlor that I went to, I became an ambassador for the Polaris Project, which deals with sex trafficking. It talked about how many of the women that are involved in that whole thing are not free. Yeah. They're not free. Yeah. They're not free. They're basically indentured servants. And they're basically trying to pay off debts to get out from some pimp or get out from under someone who's got them. And I played that whole thing out in my head

because I said, I did that. I got to correct this. And so I became an ambassador for Polaris Project because to stop human slavery today, the fact that at every opportunity that I can see, I'm really trying to tell my story in order to just bring light to, man, we've been hypnotized as men. We've been hypnotized, man. This masculinity thing is to a point where i could understand the taliban right wait a minute i knew taliban in the african-american culture we have a black taliban it's like if you don't do

black the right way you're out really if you are not this kind of black man you are instantly this is a lot of thing white people don't know but there is a sector that is so pro-black Taliban. I call them the Ankh Rite, which is the Ankh symbol, the Egyptian thing, that they actually line up with white racists. Oh, my gosh. And they go attack black people. Let me talk about black people. And it blows your mind. This is Taliban.

I was like, this is, but it's as toxic as it comes. And I remember being, like, having attitudes and things. I remember my wife would tell me stuff. We would have arguments. I was like, you know, that girl, she's got to watch what she's wearing. She's like, Terry, it doesn't matter what she's wearing. Nobody should be able to touch her without her permission. I was like, yeah, but she's wearing it.

It doesn't matter. Because I was in a framework and a mindset where you're like, man, let me tell you, when you come out. And it's wild because it's almost like falling off a cliff. You fall and you just hit the ledge. You think you're on the bottom, but you hit a cliff. It's like things are revealed. And things are like, man, look, look, look. Man, look, look, look.

In 2017, my wife and I went to this party. And this agent, who was the head of William Morris Endeavor, his name was Adam Bennett, literally represented Michael B. Jordan, Sylvester Stallone, all the super big stars, Adam Sandler. It was actually Sandler's party. And this guy comes over to me. I mean, he's licking his tongue out doing all this crazy stuff i've got my wife's hand let me tell you something once you out of that you know what toxic masculinity looks like you know and i have to say the term toxic masculinity has been overused people toxic you know what it is? It's abuse of power, quite simply.

It's an abuse of power. Anywhere you see this kind of stuff, where you see an abuse of power, we're talking about these kind of problems. This guy came over to me, man, and he's licking his tongue. Now, I know drunk, and I know drugs. I grew up in Flint, Michigan. I know the crack epidemic. I grew up, Michigan. I know the crack epidemic. I grew up with it. I know people who are high as hell.

He was high on something. I don't know what it was. He was out of his mind. Eyes dilated, going crazy. And I'm going, what is wrong with this dude? And you're with your wife. I'm with my wife. He comes over to me.

He gulps me in my gym. I mean, not even, he just grabs a handful. I'm like, yeah, hey, man, get back. What are you doing? He's laughing, and he comes back again. All right, I'm going to get, dude, dude. And I grab his hands. I restrain him.

I push him back. I mean, he literally falls into other people. Wow. And I can't believe what I'm, I mean, this is my agency. These are people I pay millions of dollars to. So I go, okay, okay. My wife has seen me before in my toxic days. Get aggressive.

Yeah, yeah. Football days. Yeah, in the football days. She's seen me throw people over her head. Wow. Literally. Wow. She's seen people get beat down in the street.

And she was like, years earlier, you know, this was during the therapy times and during our comeback time, she said, Terry, you cannot let anyone pull you into any sort of altercation because you're going to lose everything. Wow. She would always tell me, always like, Terry. You can't react. You can't respond. You can't react. Because this was also part of my therapy. Because I had anger. I had big anger.

You wanted to fight. I said, man, that's how I got in the NFL. Yeah. Seven years in the NFL is a fight. That's all you do. Man, you got two good parents, you probably ain't going to make it in the NFL. No. I'm just trying to tell you.

You get that kind of peaceful life, yeah, you're too soft. You're too comfortable. You play on pain, dude. You play on my daddy beat my mom. I'm going to beat your ass just like that. My holy skill was my ability to take tremendous amounts of pain. That was the deal because I was angry. It's like jail anger.

I tell you, I knew NFL players. You put us in any prison, we'll run it. I'm just telling you because i could go to prison now and i know i would i could be fine wow because that pain was something that you like man don't touch me you enjoy the fight so you want to you understand what i mean yeah you look for it you're like you bring it and she like, now you're different. We have to work this. And I said, you're right.

And I had that question. Why would I want to just snap on somebody? Why would I love to just put somebody's face in the pavement? Why can't I walk away? Let me tell you, man, that was the biggest test I ever had, ever. Because I grabbed her hand. Because I was going to kill this dude, Lewis. Dude.

Someone grabbed your hand. Listen, what people don't even fathom is the aftermath of these kind of actions. I know. Because imagine, even if I would have just, pow, and he fell and died. Your career's over. Your life's over. Life's over. Wait, life's over. But wait, he may not even have been there to tell the story.

Everybody would say, Terry Crews just killed a man. Well, was he high? I don't know. No, he bumped into Terry. He got mad. I wouldn't have been able to say, well, he did this. They'd be like, yeah, right. Right.

Dude, I got in that car. I cut my hands on the steering wheel. I was going to drive back in. I literally was going to drive, like, it took everything I had to drive away. All right, go back. Yeah. She said, my wife was like, I'm so proud of you. Wow. I'm proud of you, Terry. I'm proud of you, Terry.

I'm proud of you. And I was like, now, next day, go right to the agency. I'm like, hey, man, what are y'all going to do about this? This is crazy. Guy calls me up. I'm sorry, I was drunk. Instantly, I knew he was lying. When you tell me you're drunk, I know you're lying.

So now you're not dealing with this thing. Now you're not willing to say you're guilty. You just got back in the car. You're making an excuse. I'm on the ground. You got back in the car. You drove off. You just made an excuse.

And he was like, sorry about that. So I go up. I talk to my agent. I said, dude, you gotta do something about it. We're gonna handle this, we're gonna handle this at the highest levels, we're gonna do whatever it takes, Terry, you watch. I got zero.

I waited, waited, waited. It was like eight months later and I'm going, nobody's doing nothing. And I couldn't believe it, I was like, hey, nobody's making a move. This is ridiculous. And all of a sudden, the Weinstein story breaks. And these guys all over the Internet are going in on these girls about, they kept their story.

You know, now, why are you telling now? Why are you doing this now? Why are you doing that now? And I just got so angry. I couldn't believe it because I said, this happened to me. I was molested. And I didn't go public. You know what I mean?

I didn't make a big deal. I'm waiting for them to make it right. I didn't say, William Morris did this right off. First of all, if I'd have made a police report back then, I would have been laughed out of the station. Right. They'd have been like, what back then, I would have been laughed out of the station. Right. They'd have been like, what? Who cares, yeah. What?

They grab assing, man. Because, first of all, you're talking about a complicit system. I mean, imagine the women that come through. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, whatever. Look what she was wearing, man. Right. Hey, I couldn't resist. And, dude, I would have been laughed at.

There was nothing I could say. But when that happened, I backed those women up right away through 16 tweets. My wife didn't know, publicist didn't know, agent, nobody knew. I was on the set of Brooklyn Nine-Nine and I did those tweets. And I knew, I was like, oh my God. I said, if I had remained silent, I would have felt like a fraud. I said, those women were being sent out in the fire. Like they were just out there and these guys were just lambasting them. And I said, I got to support you.

I have to support you. Their courage gave me my courage. And because I know what it is. I know what this shit is, man. And they were gaslighting me, dude. So finally, when I did these tweets, and I remember I didn't name a name. Did not say a name at all. Yeah, yeah.

They usually calls me. Hey, Terry, you all right? We saw your tweets and the whole thing. I said, so why are you calling me? And he said, well, you know, we didn't saw that your tweets and all the thing. I said, so well, why are you calling me? And he said well, you know, we didn't know Terry. We didn't know this was one of the higher-ups. He's like we didn't know I said, well, why are you calling me? Because I didn't name anybody in those tweets Could have been anybody

You knew mm-hmm so stop playing this fucking game with me. I mean, literally, that's for real. And I was like, dude, are you serious? The great Ari Emanuel, president of William Morris, the man. He's like, I am going to grant you a meeting with me. That's what he said. Grant you a meeting? I'm going to grant you a meeting with me.

He said, would you like it to be at my home? Or we can meet at the Four Seasons. I was like, you know, I'm not going to grant you a meeting with me. He said, would you like it to be at my home? Or we could meet at the Four Seasons. I was like, you know, I'm not going to your house. Let's meet at the hotel. So he sits there. He comes in. He's like talking, oh, man, I juice. Do you juice?

I'm going, we really going to talk about juice right now. OK. I said, look, I pulled out a letter. I pulled out a letter he wrote that said said Mel Gibson should be blacklisted from Hollywood. Why? Because of anti-Semitic remarks. He should never work again. What I did, I took that same letter.

I crossed out Mel Gibson. Put Adam Bennett, his agent. Crossed out anti-Semitic remarks. And I put sexual assault. And I said, read that. Now you know what you have to do. He said, it's different, Terry. So what's different about it?

He said, well, you know, I said, first of all, anti-Semitic remarks, as reprehensible as they may be, are not illegal. Sexual assault is a crime. punishable by law. What he did to me, you go to jail for. He was like, look, okay, what we're going to do, he's going to lose his title and we're going to suspend him for 30 days. Is that good enough for you? I said, wait a minute. Why are you asking me what's good enough for me? I said, first of all, it's not my job to tell you

how to police your people. I said, dude, he has to go. You cannot do this to a client and go back to work. I am accepting nothing less than his dismissal, Mr. Ari Emanuel.

And he said, do what you got to do, Terry. Wow. And that started our year saga of courtrooms. And then they went public and said that I basically tried to take advantage of the Me Too movement and piggyback on this movement that real women had been really molested. And they protected him. They stood by him.

They were like, he did nothing wrong. We went into all this hoopla. And finally, it all hit the fan because more people started coming forward. Oh, wow. More people. And finally it all hit the fan because more people started coming forward More people and they've just kept they've got we oh we just found this out that you knew this shit from the beginning, right? So you just want to play me out and listen I have big-time stars Big time people came to me and they said Terry they told me not to work with you Wow Terry they told me not to work with you. Wow. Terry, they told me not to do it. They were planting wrong stories.

They had stories planted about me and prostitutes in Monaco and the whole thing, ready to go to all the press. And that was my second honeymoon. And I was like, no, no. So what I did, I just went in. I put all their stuff and put it out myself. Wow. And I went vocal. I went public. I went, see, because this kind of thing, you

got to call out a heckler. You understand what I mean? When these guys get mean, these people who want to abuse, they pray for your silence. Silence is violence, man. They pray you never tell. But what I did, I went on a tour. I went on Dr. Phil. I was on Megyn Kelly. I was on every talk show everywhere, name and names. They were like, gee. To the point where they couldn't stand it. I mean, their own clients had to be like, what's going on here, man? Right. And then he resigned.

They gave me my money back because I never wanted any money. I didn't want to die. He had to go. I accepted nothing. They actually were talking about, well, what does he want? What does he want? They sent lawyers to do that. I walked out.

I was like, I'm not playing this game. They said, what do you want? I want him gone. Well, that's not going to happen. I said, well, then it ain't going to happen. Yeah. So he agreed to leave. And there we go.

And they gave me my money back. But at the same time, I had to think, oh, my God. I spent $400,000 of my own money. What is a young girl going to do? Who doesn't have the funds and the resources and the platform. What young girl wants to be in Hollywood, get off the bus? She's trying to do it. She gets molested.

She gets raped by her agent, nonetheless. What's she going to do? Not much. Nothing. And I said, damn it. This has got to stop. This is a thing where we have to, as men, it's our

job. And this is how, I understand my boundaries, Lewis. I'm not here to talk about the white man. I'm not. I'm not here to be like, but what about this guy? I'm not here. I'm talking about me. Listen, black men need to hold other black men accountable.

Men need to hold other men accountable. Americans need to hold other Americans accountable. See, you see how that boundary keeps working? It might grow. It might go big. Some people were like, well, what about, because I talk about my community and they'll say, well, what about Catholics? I'm not Catholic. I got nothing to say about that. But Catholics need to hold other Catholics accountable. You understand what I mean? What's happened is it's the people you're next to. It's your community. Hey, man, if you live in Greenwich, Connecticut,

you have to hold other Greenwich, Connecticut citizens accountable. And now this is what they, what about toxic femininity? And I heard that all the time. And I'm like, hey, man, I'll leave that so some woman can have her own conference on that. But I can't speak for them. Yeah. I'm curious about what do you think about forgiveness through toxic masculinity when someone has done something to you that you feel is wrong and is wrong,

illegal, or whether it's illegal or not illegal, you feel is wrong. Yes. Just in the way your wife forgave you because you took accountability, you took certain actions. Maybe or maybe not she wouldn't have forgiven you, but she did, and you're here now together. What's your view on forgiving toxic men or toxic actions that men have taken in the past but are working to improve and i don't know

anything about the agent and what he's doing right now but how do you in your own heart feel about forgiveness where people have done something wrong to you first of all forgiveness is a requirement i remember when donald sterling did all thing. I went on a press tour. I was doing a press tour for Blended. And that whole Donald Sterling thing was going on. And I said, we need to forgive Donald Sterling. You can look it up on YouTube right now. Wow. And black people were like, hell no.

But I said, listen, listen. The big, big thing about forgiveness is that it's not for him or them. It's for you. It's for you. Now, forgiveness and accountability go hand in hand. See, what people think is forgiveness means now I'm free. No, it doesn't. In fact, holding you accountable is a part of forgiveness. I forgive you, I let you go, I'm filing this lawsuit. You understand what I mean? That's as far as forgiveness goes. I forgive you, meaning, meaning, hey man, you know what?

I'm not going to let anything you do affect me in a negative way. You understand what I mean? In fact, I'm going to let it propel me to do more courageous acts to help other people. I had to forgive my father, man. My youngest memory is my father hitting my mother in the face and knocking her out. Okay. I had to forgive him. the thing is forgiveness is great but he expected okay so now everything's good

I'm like no no you can't come in my house and ruin my house yeah I mean I actually forgave him and then blocked his number yeah

do you see what I'm saying sure see but that's where we're getting it mixed up because what happens is when a smooth toxic guy knows how to manipulate that come on, baby You forgave me right? Let me back in it's like ah

You've already crossed that line now forgiveness is like, you know, I forgive you go your way. Mm-hmm. Goodbye That's the best kind of forgiveness ever. Yeah Unless maybe you know Would you ever bring someone back in your life if they showed accountability for a while and you felt like it was sincere and true? I've already done it. Again, just like what your wife has done where you took the actions, you were sincere. Yes. Working.

I have to say this. It's wild because I have a really good friend who I could say betrayed me. And he literally worked his way back. And now we're back again. Really? I'm telling you, it's so amazing. My wife will tell you. We went through the whole thing.

Straight betrayal. And I was like, what? And he was really, really apologetic, really sorry, and he was really accountable. And let me tell you, now he's right back. In fact, because of what we went through, we're right, right, you see what I mean?

We're closer than ever. And we talk about this stuff. And before it was an image and things he was covering, and now there's nothing there. Now we're closer. We're actually intimate. You know what I mean? And let me tell you, my wife and I, way closer than we were before.

And what I mean, man, I can look in her eyes, she looks in mine, and we go, oh. Listen, I would say if there's a way to not go through what we went through That's the best way I would never ever recommend the health because let me tell you it was hell It was hell. Yeah to come back. I mean there were times I would come home And she'd be in the kitchen just crying, just standing there. And I knew, you know, there's nothing worse than knowing you did that. And I wouldn't even have to ask.

I would just come over, give her a hug, if she wanted one. I would say, can I hug you? We'd just hug. And it's about empathy, man. you. We just hug. And it's about empathy, man. And this is, again, with this apology thing, you know, people feel like, well, I said it once and I don't have to apologize again. But that's saying you'll never be wrong. You always have to be open and forgiveness is necessary. Forgive, forgive, forgive. It's I have to forgive in the morning and you forgive at night. It's I have to forgive for more in the morning and you forgive at night

how did you learn to forgive yourself for 20 plus years or 30 years or whatever it is of doing things that you felt like you betrayed yourself for And other people that came from doing a lot of from reading Brene Brown she's in her I Mean her dealings with shame. She's amazing. Dude, it just, it literally told me, wait a minute, man. You are not evil.

You see what I mean? Because that's the way you forgive yourself. Yeah, because you can't forgive yourself as long as you think you're evil. Right. You know what I mean? You can't. It's impossible. I am an evil person.

There's no forgiveness. But when you realize, no, I did something wrong. I did bad things. I don't do them anymore. Now you can forgive yourself. Now you can start to, I don't do that anymore. I don't watch porn anymore. I don't do these things anymore.

In fact, I'm working against these things. In fact, I am correcting these things. In fact, because of my vulnerability and because of my transparency, my God, it's like I'm having a therapy session right now. Right, right. As we talk. Yeah. And it reminds me, it was like, Terry, hey, man, you're making right moves now. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You're doing the right thing now. Mm-hmm. And it's so funny because you can relate it to almost like food. People eat emotionally. You eat when you feel bad. Yeah. You know, you might not be hungry.

You might not be there. But you go, oh. And then all of a sudden, you know, the bigger you get, the worse you feel. And you just say, this is who I am. And then all of a sudden, you are in an unhealthy state and you just decide, this is me. This is the way I am. And it's like, no, it's not. No, it's not.

Because there is an ideal weight. You know what I mean? I have never shamed or anything. I don't believe in it. But everyone should have an ideal weight. There's an ideal weight for you that's healthy. And if you don't know it, you probably have a problem. You know what I mean? And that's the way I'm gauging my thing, you know? And I look at this thing as, hey, man, when you look at your own life,

it's constant introspection, constant correction, constant like, do it right. Do it right. Wait a minute. Why do you feel this way? I've been so mindful lately because there are times when I'm sitting around and I'm like, why am I irritated? Why am I irritated by something? And then I realized there was something I said or something I feel. Before I go into any interview, I have to check my own heart. There's times I might be mad at my wife and I take it out on somebody in the interview. Right. You know what I mean? And you go, whoa, why did I say? Man, dude, you have no idea how deep you go. That's the deal. People are like, ah, no, I don't know. No, no. Listen, and this is another thing I know, the knowledge that I am capable of unspeakable evil means I can counteract it.

Yeah. But when you just think, no, man, I would never do something like that. Don't ever say anything like that. I would never. Because the whole country of Germany thought we would never do that. Right. Hey, man, there was a time when I was a kid, we were riding the back of flatbed trucks on the freeway at 70 miles an hour and waving to cops. And the cops waved back.

Hey, man, hey. Until kids started dying on the freeway. Like, maybe we should buckle up. And there was a time when everybody just accepted, like, you can drive in the back of a flatbed truck on the freeway you can do that but you can't yeah

and those things just we think we know but I think we're just right now on the cusp of realizing

who we are look at any 80s comedy it's cringeworthy dude it's bad it hurts you laughed back in the day

I laughed it was funny then We were all like ha ha ha You laugh you look at it now like oh my god. Yeah, I can't believe I laughed at that. Yeah Yeah, I want to respect your time because I know you gotta leave I know I got I love your stories and I have like so many questions that I haven't even got I know I'm just letting Them go next next year. We're gonna come back. Yeah, we got more to do I want to ask you a few final questions, and I'm going to ask you to keep them brief so I can respect your time.

I'm sorry. You're good. I would listen to you for hours, man. I know, I know. I wish this was two hours. Damn it. You got another interview. Believe me, I know, I know.

One question is, what is it about your wife you're most grateful for? I've got to be brief with this one. Go on for an hour on this. Yeah. You know what? I guess the thing I'm most grateful for I gotta be brief with this one. Go on for an hour on this. Yeah. You know what? I guess the thing I'm most grateful for is her friendship.

It's her friendship. Even if we would have been divorced, she still would have been my friend. Like, she still cared. There's nothing like having a person on earth that wants to see you win in every way. That's amazing. Like, come here, come here, Terry. Come here, come here. Let me get that out your eye.

Let me get it right. Okay. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. You look great. Checking your jacket. You see what I mean? You see, she's like, no, straight in the back.

Back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man. This is why you don't have eyes on the back of your head, because you need somebody to watch you and to check you and to make sure you're right, man. She's my friend, dude. Like, that is the ultimate. That's cool. That's cool.

This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths. You've got a lot of truths. Yeah. And imagine it's your last day on earth many years from now. You get to pick the day, you get to pick the year, but at one point you've got to go. Let's just say hypothetical, right?

And you've done everything you want to do. You've achieved every dream. You've had the most incredible marriage, great kids. Everything you want to accomplish, it's happened. The impact you want to make in the world, it's happened. The man you want to become, you've become it. That's a great day. It's happening.

But for whatever reason, all your work and your interviews and your content and your movies, you've got to take them all with you. So no one has access to them anymore. They just have memories of you. anymore. They just have memories of you. And you get to leave, you get a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true about all your experiences in life, all your lessons, the challenges, the love. And this is what the world would remember you by, these three truths. What would you say are your three lessons or three truths? Wow. Number one is accountability. I would like to know that I taught, I gave people an example of what being accountable looks like.

That's a value that is extremely important to me. The other truth is love. I mean, love, I say this before and I'll say it again, it's impossible to love someone and control them at the same time. Most of these bad things we're talking about are attempts for people in power to control other people. And so that's where every abuse occurs, because you're trying to control what people think. I was trying to control my wife by not telling her the truth. But love gives you all the options, and then you get to pick. And if my wife loves me, like if I kept her in a cage in the basement, that's control.

That's not love. Right. But when she can come and go freely and she comes home because she wants to be with me, that's love. Let's see. And the third thing, I would say creativity. Creativity. You can do it all. My thing is, I never saw, once I cracked that egg on the inside of me, the image and who I was became one person.

I could do anything. There was no rules. Go. Host. Act. Create a furniture line. Paint. Paint. Do whatever, there's no rules. There's nobody to tell you, hey man, that's not what a man does. No, no, no.

Creativity works like do whatever you want. Whatever your vision sees. In fact, as far as you can take it, Pablo Picasso said, whatever you can imagine is real. That kind of creativity, man. To me, those three things, man, they can say, man, Terry did that. That's what I want. When you see all the stuff that he went for and he tried.

This is a kid from Flint, Michigan, man. I never, never was supposed to get this. Wow. People are still shocked that I'm here. Yeah. I shock myself. But it's through creativity. Yeah.

Man, those are powerful truths. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Terry, for your incredible heart. A lot of people see you as this big strong guy and you you're probably the most attractive man I've met but you're physically fit right exactly your physical strength is impressive but your your heart strength is really what's inspiring to me and I think to so many people that you're willing to continue to use your platform for a place of service and impact I think that's,

for me, a true measure of a man is someone who's in service. And I honor and recognize that in you and acknowledge you for all you do to be accountable for yourself. You know, I know we've talked before, I've made tons of mistakes in my life and I'm not perfect and I'm constantly owning up to that accountability personally. And for you to lead the way, it's really inspiring for me and so many men and women in the world. So I acknowledge you, my man. I hope we get to do more interviews in the future

and dive in, because we didn't even talk about your art, your creativity. Oh, we got more, yeah, I got a whole deal on that. Terry's one of the best artists I've ever met. But right now, they can get the book, Manhood. Make sure you guys go pick this up. Get it for yourself. Get it for a man in your life.

And for women, if you're living with a man, how to understand men better. This is a great book. Check this out. You're on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Is it out right now? You're filming right now, and it's out. We're filming now. And it's out.

And I'm hosting America's Got Talent. America's Got Talent is huge, man. Congrats on that. Huge. I've been watching your stories and everything. It looks so Got Talent. America's Got Talent is huge, man. Huge. Congrats on that. Huge. I've been watching your stories and everything. It looks so inspiring. It is. It's so great, man.

I was baked for that show, dude. You are the perfect person. You are freaking like, it's unbelievable. What else? How else can we support you right now? We can follow you on Instagram. Yes, just at Terry Crews Instagram, at Terry Crews on Twitter, Facebook, you know, TerryCruz. And, you know, I'm just always doing stuff.

Oh, I have a children's book coming out that I illustrated. Is it coming out? It's literally coming out next month. We are getting the whole thing together. It's self-published. It's called Come Find Me. And it's an augmented reality book where it's a first-time reader. It's in Portuguese, English, and Spanish.

And you open it up. You have an app. You can put the phone or your iPad on the pictures, and the characters pop right out of the book. We are going all out. Come Find Me. Where can we get it? Can we pre-order that on Amazon? Actually, it's comefindmebook.com.

Okay. It's literally coming out next month. Sweet. We're lining it all up, man. It's my first children's book. Let me tell you, this is the thing. What broke my heart more than anything was when Bill Cosby went down. I grew up on Little Bill, Thad Albert, the whole thing.

And I said, man, now that wiped out the whole legacy. I knew something had to replace that. And I created this book. And it's two characters, Marcus and Anthony, two little young African-American boys who are based on real people. I co-wrote it with my friend, Ken Harvey, who was a pro football player.

And his kids are all grown. They have master's degrees, the whole thing. And they're wonderful kids, but they're based on them as they were little kids. That's cool, man. Come find me. We'll link it up. We'll promote it out. 30 seconds as they were little kids. That's cool, man. Come find me. We'll link it up. We'll promote it out.

30 seconds or less. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? Wow. My definition of greatness is vulnerability. Because vulnerability, you have no courage without vulnerability. And there's no way you can be great until you can hear it and be vulnerable. So that's my definition.

Terry Crews, you're a legend, man. Appreciate you, bro. Love you, man. Thank you, bro. You guys, thank you. It's amazing. And there you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one.

Such a powerful interview. I only asked like four or five questions and Terry just went and shared stories like a madman. I love it. His passion, his enthusiasm, his ability to connect and his creativity. The guy has done so much over his career and he is just getting started.

Make sure to follow him over on Instagram. Make sure to follow the shows. Brooklyn Nine-Nine, America's Got Talent. Make sure to let him know that you enjoyed this. Tag him on on Instagram. Make sure to follow the shows, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, America's Got Talent. Make sure to let him know that you enjoyed this. Tag him on your Instagram stories to let him see that you're listening to this episode as well. And the link to send your friends is lewishouse.com slash 760. Again, I hope you guys enjoyed this one. And remember, it doesn't matter what you've gone through in your past.

It doesn't matter what you're going through right now. You can always make a decision in this moment to change your life forever, to do something powerful with your life, to take one step in a different direction towards the vision of your dreams. I believe in you. I've got your back. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you. Bye.