The School of Greatness - 784 Maisie Williams: Be Your Own Hero

Episode Date: April 15, 2019

HOW DO YOU TALK TO YOURSELF? The relationship you have with yourself is the most important. If you’re constantly putting yourself down and judging yourself, eventually you’re going to self-destruct. It’s common to self-sabotage when things are going well. It can happen to anyone- it doesn’t matter how successful you are. We feel anxious. We feel like a fraud. We might even feel like we don’t deserve it. But once you get to the root of those feelings, you can heal the judgments you have of yourself. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk with one of the biggest television stars on the planet about anxiety: Maisie Williams. Maisie Williams is an actress known for playing Arya Stark in Game of Thrones. She won the EWwy Award for Best Supporting Actress in a Drama, the Portal Award for Best Supporting Actress – Television and Best Young Actor, and the Saturn Award for Best Performance by a Younger Actor. In 2016, she was nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series. Maisie was at the height of her fame and success but still felt worthless. She realized that there wasn’t anything outside of herself that could make her happy. She had to find her self-worth from the inside. So get ready to learn how Maisie Williams navigated childhood fame and anxiety on Episode 784. Some Questions I Ask: Why is it so terrifying to be yourself? (6:30) Where does anxiety come from for you? (14:00) What are some of the things you do now for self-care? (30:30) What is your greatest fear? (36:30) What is your superpower? (43:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: How to be there for someone who is struggling (22:00) How apologizing for things in your past can help you move forward (28:00) Why you need to slow down when you’re struggling with mental health (33:30) What Maisie wants to accomplish in the future (41:00) About her new startup Daisie (48:00)

This is episode number 784 with Maisie Williams. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Maya Angelou said, as you grow older, you'll discover that you have two hands,

one for helping yourself and the other for helping others. And Oscar Wilde said, to love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance. Welcome to this episode with Maisie Williams, someone I've gotten to know recently and gotten to spend a few times with, and who's really opened me up and inspired me in a lot of ways. She started acting in the massive hit Game of Thrones back in 2011, she's won a number of awards for Best Supporting Actress, a number of awards for Best Young Actor, and has inspired a young generation. And in this interview, we talk about how acting has affected Maisie's ability to be herself when she's offset. when she's offset. Also how Maisie embraces anxiety and she dives into her anxiety early on in this interview and how she started to really overcome it. The power of self-care and making time for it and the importance of looking within yourself for love instead of outside sources. I think this is a really important conversation we're having. There's a lot of vulnerable and sensitive moments that Maisie has.

And I really honor her for sharing and diving in and opening up about these topics that I think a lot of people struggle with. So if you enjoy this, make sure to share with a friend who you think it could support as well. The link is lewishouse.com slash 784. I really believe this is going to inspire a lot of people and I want to spread this as far and as wide as we can. So make sure to share this out. Tag Maisie as well over on Instagram. She's got an inspiring page and make sure to check out

her new company called Daisy. We'll talk about that later and have it all in the show notes as well. And also many of you have been asking about past episodes. We've had almost 800 episodes on the School of Greatness. And unfortunately, iTunes and other podcast players don't allow you to have past a certain number of podcasts. So we've got incredible episodes with Mel Robbins and Tim Ferriss and Alanis Morissette and Tony Robbins that aren't actually on this platform right now. So we've decided to support you even more by creating a new show called the School of Greatness Hall of Fame. These are the hand-selected episodes that aren't available anymore online. They're hand-selected. We put

them in a curated list that you can check them out, all called the Hall of Fame. So make sure to go search for School of Greatness Hall of Fame, and you can go see the past episodes as well. Again, thank you to our sponsors for helping us make this podcast the way it is. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, the inspiring Maisie Williams. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. I'm very excited we have Maisie Williams in the house. High five. We're in London. We're in your office area, side office for your startup company. In the cool part of town. The cool part of town. We're driving through office area, side office for your startup company.

In the cool part of town. The cool part of town. We were driving through and we're like, man, we feel cool. We actually drove through, I don't know, 15 minutes away. And there was a bunch of kids in like outfits and, you know, school outfits and uniforms. And they looked like Harry Potter kids. Yeah. I was like, where's Harry?

Where's the scar? Where is it? I'm excited about this. We met a couple months ago in L.A. In L.A.? Yeah. And you are a powerhouse in the world. You're a star on a big show, Game of Thrones, which I told you I've never seen. I saw like the first ten minutes of episode one years ago.

I never got into it. Yeah. But now I want to get into it because of you. Oh, thank you. So I'm excited to get into it because of you. Oh, thank you. I'm excited to get into it. You've got the season, the final season is coming out like right now. Yes. April 14th is coming. So it's like a lot of press and things right now. Everything. Yeah. You're all over the place right now. Cover of every magazine. You're doing it all. Yes, exactly. And this is interesting. We were just talking about this before we sat down about how kind of anxious you get before interviews, before speeches,

before photo shoots, before things like this. But you're this massive superstar, millions of followers all over the world, been doing eight seasons of Game and Throne. You are massive, but you still get anxious before an interview with a simple American guy on a podcast, right? I think as an actor, you spend your life playing a character. And then I've been doing press for about a decade. And there are times when I feel like I'm putting on a character and portraying a version of myself. But I think there's nothing that's more terrifying than, like, truly being yourself.

Wow. And, yeah, I get very, very anxious about a lot of things. I think it helps me in some ways. I do a lot better when I put myself under a little bit of pressure, I think. And I think nerves is a way of you sort of doing that, like feeding your nerves. You give a zone more. Exactly. You focus too.

Yeah. But yeah, also can be just very nerve wracking, I think. You know, there's a lot of people going to listen to this. Why is being yourself so nerve wracking? Because I think for a long time, I wasn't really sure who I was. So I couldn't really be authentic because I was trying to search in so many other places for who that was. And I guess it's that sort of fear of being found out and trying to say the right thing and trying to be the person that you want me to be in this situation which I sort of tried to scrap about a year ago and then I think since then my nerves have definitely got a lot more intense but

nerves are more intense yeah when I've tried to just sort of like drop that I don't know yeah I just had a lot of you get it a lot when you're younger when you you grow up and you try something and then you know a lot of people have a lot of opinions and say that you're not being authentic. And when you're just trying to figure that out yourself, I think it's quite a jarring thing to hear. And for me, I have always felt like I don't really know who I am. Really? Yeah, if I'm not pretending to be someone. A character.

Yeah, yeah. Do you think most, because you're 21 now, you're going to turn 22 soon, do you think most teenagers feel that way, even if they're not on a big show and everyone's looking at them? Absolutely.

I think, you know, whenever anyone can see through my facade and they see me for, like, the nervous little girl that I am, I think actually

it's quite, I get quite a positive reaction from that. So I've really tried to just embrace it a lot more because I think people can relate to that. And, you know, getting on stage and doing a TED Talk is terrifying. And I think, you know, to see someone find it terrifying is, you know, makes you feel kind of good. Like, yeah. You're not a superhuman.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's quite a natural thing to be a little nervous to stand on the stage and talk to people. Is it different being on camera in front of a film crew? I mean, I don't even know how many people are filming and being on set, 20, 50 people while you're doing a scene. Is it more nervous when the cameras say, okay, action, time to go, hit this at this time, you've done it 20 times, now we need to get it right.

What's more nerve-wracking that or a ted talk for 15 minutes in front of a thousand people a ted talk why is that acting performing that's like in my bones and being able to switch that on and like i can pretend to be like still and calm and like focused and thoughtful and that's what my entire job is on Game of Thrones. Arya is very calculated and she can command a room by doing very little and I understand that feeling and can portray that and can convince people but my hands are shaking right now so you could do that on a camera and be super calm but on stage or yeah in a simple little podcast with me you still get a little nervous or anxious yeah and i think it really is just the act of creating a character, of pretending. And I think people do it all the time.

People live their entire lives pretending to be someone that they're not. Being a character. Yeah. Putting on a mask or doing something. People don't truly know who they are, and you do that for so long that you really lose touch with who you are. you do that for so long that you really lose touch with who you are. And I think, you know, being able to do that so strongly and so convincingly means I've created a career from it. But, yeah, when I strip that away and decide to drop that,

like, I am a very anxious person. And, yeah, I don't know if there's ever, like, a way to fix that about myself. I mean, I've definitely tried I've sort of gone to therapy and I've been medicated and like I've tried a lot of different things but I think the best like medicine I was ever given was really just trying to embrace it and stop trying to fight it really and just accepting that that's how I deal with things and not letting it stop me from doing a TED Talk. I'm still going to go and do it, even though it means that I'm going to be

uncomfortable and probably make my anxiety worse, or do a play. I did a play for three months at Hampstead Theatre here in London. Was that nerve-wracking? Completely. On opening night, I looked at myself in the mirror, was alone in my dressing room, and I outwardly said to myself in the mirror, what made you think you could do this? Like, said it to myself. That's probably not the best thing to say right before the first night. past Maisie had thought that this would be an amazing idea. But then you have to stop and breathe and realize that I'm not going to let this hold me back from doing the things I enjoy, because ultimately I enjoy performing. I enjoy being on stage. I enjoy that sort of thing. And I enjoy helping other people. And I know that the words that I wanted to say in my TED Talk could be inspiring to other people. And I want to do that. And it's difficult, but it doesn't mean that I shouldn't.

Right. Yeah, so it's like trying to not listen to those voices in my head. Yeah. How did the play and the TED Talk go for you personally? How did you feel they went? The play was amazing. I felt so proud of myself afterwards. Nice.

And I want to do more. The TED Talk the thing about a TED Talk is you do it on the day in front of those people on stage and then it lives on after you. It's recorded and yeah. On the day, delivery was not strong.

There's a lot of pregnant pauses where I looked at the crowd and thought what am i doing what am i doing here who thought who would have thought i should be doing this yeah and then got it back and you know but you know and and i won i was really beating myself up after it i was with ruben and we walked back to the train station. I basically cried the whole way back to the train station. Really? Looked at the floor. I couldn't even look at him because I was so embarrassed and disappointed in myself.

Then we just got to the train station and I sort of pulled myself together and we were just looking through a shop while we waited for the train. And this girl came up and she said, Maisie. And I turned around and she was like, I just was at your TED Talk. It's so interesting to me that you're so terrified and like don't beat yourself up about that because yeah you know it wasn't the most punchy talk that anyone's ever given but the fact that you like let down that wall and let people see that you are just like an anxious person I think it's like quite humbling

to people to hear so that was like what I needed for me to just be like suck it up like it's bigger than that and it's okay that you did something wrong and and then they edited those out and then now the video is doing great wonderfully and people are happy so there you go yeah I don't need to beat myself up for the rest of my life now where do you think anxiety comes from for you? I think my entire family are quite anxious people. And I think mine's definitely sort of enhanced. Because you're the youngest of four, right? I am, yes. So am I.

Yeah, we sit in the same place in the family, the baby. You think yours is enhanced? Yeah, it's just, you know, mine gets worse with, like, being famous. You know, and the things that come with that, like being stopped in the street. You know, so I don't know that that's, like, the root of it, really. I feel like I maybe would have been an anxious person anyway, even if I wasn't famous. So I don't want to say that because I think that that's untrue. I think just self-doubt.

Really? Me and my entire family. You doubt yourself a lot? Yeah, I think we all do. You're this big star. You're on shows. You're celebrated. I don't think that's where your self-worth comes from, though.

Where does your self-worth come from? I think real connections with people um like I pride myself and I judge myself based on like how many people are like good to me and help me and how many people I help like one-to-one like I feel like that's how I feel like I'm worth something, if I can be that friend to cool. Wow. Or if I can find, if I have someone to cool. I think that's like kind of where my self-worth is. Yeah. Is that bad? No.

I don't know. I'm even doubting that. The intimate personal connections you have, the relationships you have, if they're strong or if they're not strong. Yeah. And so I think the reason why it sort of maybe got worse is because I have got this fame and it's hard to understand what people's intentions are. And it's hard to have time for those relationships. And so, you know, if you go too long away from home, then it can get a lot

worse. And I spend too much time away from my family. But I think, you know, for all of us, it is just a bit of self-doubt. And I think we have quite low self-esteem and, and, you know, I can look at every single member of my family and I think I can pinpoint, you know, I can see it in their eyes, like things that I feel and things that I think about myself. And as soon as, you know, one of my siblings says something to me, which is a sentence I probably say to myself, you know, I hate this about myself. I hate, it destroys me. And it's really hard to be like, don't you dare? Because I know I'm exactly the same. So I think that it's just something within us, but we're getting much better

at talking to each other and being more supportive of one another. How do you think you can shift that personally for yourself moving forward where you're not saying negative things about yourself or who am I to do this? Yeah. Well, I definitely, I used to tell myself I hated myself like every day. I'd say outwardly to myself. Before, like before you started the show, during the show? No, so this maybe started when I was 15 or 16. Really?

Yeah, and I would say to myself. At the top of your career, you would say out loud what in the mirror or just like? And sometimes I would say it, but like, you know, it started just in my head. Like I'd think of something and then be like cringe or like, you know, feel disappointed or for whatever. And I'd be like, I hate myself. And then it started getting worse and worse and worse until like, sometimes I'd just be with people and we'd be like talking. And then I'd say, I hate myself. And people are like, what?

And I'm like, nothing, sorry. And it's just because thoughts in my head were getting so overwhelming that I would just say it out loud and not realize that I'd done it. Wow. Yeah. It was quite like, I was very, I felt very negatively about myself. Why do you think that is though? What could have changed on the outside for you to think differently? You had the biggest show, you know, you're getting on the outside for you to think differently you had the biggest show you know you're getting on the cover of magazines you have all these opportunities tons of people are loving you but on the inside you weren't loving yourself it sounded like what would have to change on the external world for that for you to shift i think that was the point was that i was waiting for

something on the outside world to change and it wasn't ever really going to. So I think it was important for me to find peace within myself. I think I, you know, had a lot of like rocky relationships with friends and my family, you know, had a lot of thoughts about, you know, why did I get this success, you know, next to like my siblings and, you know,

how much. The guilt or things you might've felt. Yeah, definitely. And so I think what I needed to do was stop punishing myself for that. And that was what it came out as. I would punish myself for being successful. Wow. Yeah. I'm surprised you've made it this far. I'm surprised you're still on the show like this long for that much like internal hatred and punishment you gave on yourself. It definitely hit rock bottom before I got to where I am now. We wouldn't have had this conversation a year ago. Yeah. You're in a much better place now. Definitely. Yeah. What was a year ago like? And I know you say you don't want to cry and be emotional, but this is powerful stuff.

Yeah. No, I want to tell my story. About a year ago, I was in a relationship, but I had unfortunately got into a relationship where I wasn't ready to love someone else. And I had had, just before that relationship, I'd had a very big argument and a huge like rift within my life and in my heart and a huge, you know, like loss of friendship and like a very difficult thing that had happened. And I met this person and I fell in love with him

and our entire relationship was beautiful, but it was so separated from anything that I was feeling before. I created this new avenue of life with this person. And I think it got to two years in and I realized that I hadn't actually righted any of the wrongs from two years previously. I had just cut, like cut an arm off basically and said, I'm not dealing with any of that. had just cut, like cut an arm off basically and said, I'm not dealing with any of that. And was angry at the world because I was obviously upset about this, you know, huge part of my life that I'd cut off and just filled it with this relationship. And I couldn't love him, you know, properly. And in turn, I didn't love myself and he couldn't love me properly. And so that ended up ending and I went on a very self-destructive path.

For how long? Maybe like three months. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like crazy. But I realized in that time, like I hadn't, I couldn't be alone with myself without just being awful to myself. And I couldn't even be with people without feeling like I hated every single person there and myself. Like I didn't have any connections with my friends that I was with at that time. I think people listening to this would think, and people have said to me, like I'm so awful that I wasn't there for you.

And people couldn't have even been there for me, even if I'd have got a call from my best friend. It wouldn't have been like the calling that I needed. I was like dead set on being very self-destructive. Never really had a very good relationship with substances anyway. And it just all started to sort of come out in those few months. And I just got very, very sad. And yeah, I just had a lot of overwhelming feelings of not really wanting to be here wow um and then yeah and then I met someone who just listened really and I think a lot of people

want to help you and when you see someone who's in pain you want to help them like coach them or tell them what to do or yeah you want to take that pain away i was watching this thing about a marathon trainer and he like trained this girl and like he says like you want to feel the pain for them and you want to run the marathon for them and you want to be that but you can't you have to just let them just figure it out and discover it as it goes and i think a lot of my friends are people who want to make me feel better, but you have to do that yourself. And no one had really tried to ask me the questions that I need to be asking myself. What are some of those questions they should have asked you or that this friend started to ask you? Yeah. Why do you find it so easy to think bad thoughts than good thoughts. And I really loved being negative and getting into a hole.

I used to say, like, I'm in a hole. I felt like I was in a hole. Jeez, I don't know how you even did anything in your life. I don't even know how you were an actress or any of these things. Yeah, I had a bit of time off last summer, and I think it was very, very good. Through that period of time, it was quite good for me, you know, to get all of this because how do you because how do you say I hate myself I'm in a hole I'm no good or whatever else you were saying to yourself yeah but also go land this like great

part and keep like booking and this is the thing about medication though so I was on a lot of like beta blockers um which i understand but i think are actually kind of the worst things yeah so i would you know one like big memory and this is something that i hope will make people sort of realize where i was at it was like the um like the final it was like a big celebration of game of thrones the final season and i was taking this sort of medication that was like just very numbing and like... So you didn't feel anxious? Yes, we didn't feel anxious.

But I mean, I really didn't feel anything. And everyone around me is sobbing and crying and hugging. And we're looking at pictures of us when we were children. And I just couldn't for the life of me like feel a thing. You felt nothing? Literally nothing. Just like was just floating through these last few months of the show wow yeah yeah and then i think you know when did start to sort of bring

myself out of that started to love myself i think and now i wouldn't dream of telling myself that i hated myself and it makes me so sad to think that I was like that and I was because everything is so wonderful now yeah and um it's a beautiful life isn't it well I'm glad that you have someone and people who can really listen to you and ask you the right questions so that you can start to shift those conversations yeah and I questions so that you can start to shift those conversations. And I think, you know, I used to have those conversations with myself as well for many years. And I think a lot of people listening or watching have had those or having them now. So I think it's beautiful that you're sharing this and I really appreciate it.

That's okay. I'm happy too. If there's a tissue back there, maybe you grab a tissue. I don't know. Might be a little. I love that someone asked you this question. Why do you think, why is it easier to say bad things or think bad thoughts than it is to say good thoughts? Yeah. Because I'm all about the positive things we tell ourselves the intention of yeah saying something positive because the opposite isn't going to help you it's only going to create more anxiety more stress more frustration and anger what are the other questions that he was asking you or your friends were asking you it was, I think, I feel ridiculous now.

We would stay up and have conversations for hours and hours. And now I'm like, what did he say? What did he say? What was it? What was the things that helped shift you to start looking at your life differently? Like, oh, wow, maybe I do say all these negative things that I shouldn't be saying. What else am I doing that I shouldn't be doing? I think what I first realized was that I was punishing myself for my success. Because your siblings, your family wasn't achieving that, or your friends weren't achieving that?

So I had a bit of a rift within my family anyway. So I was disconnected from them, which means I was kind of disconnected from the truth because when you are disconnected from someone you can tell yourself whatever they you can you know convince yourself that they think something you know people do all the time and so I think realizing that a lot of the things I was telling myself were based on other things I was just telling myself and not like facts and understanding that I didn't need to punish myself and actually that my family were really proud of the things that I was doing and wanted to support me and cared that

I was you know I didn't feel jealous or angry or bitter they were actually very very supportive it was something that I was more just afraid of, I guess, and I'd made it, you know, a problem. I think after that, I was looking for apologies and was looking for... I wanted people to feel bad for the things that they'd said. And I realised that that wasn't going to happen. But I still felt very bad about things that they had said. And I realized that that wasn't going to happen. But I still felt very bad about things that I had said. So I decided to apologize for those things,

even though I wasn't going to get anything in reply. And I didn't. Yeah. So you did this in person with people or on the phone? Yeah, on the phone, like Skype, FaceTime, things like that. How did you feel after you apologized to all the people that you said bad things to? Yeah, I was, I mean, I was shaking. It was like, you know, a conversation that should have happened like two years ago, three years ago, you know, and I was like, panic attack, you know, on the edge of that sort of like, yeah, just that feeling. Then I was with my best friend, Sophie Turner at the time. And so I went

into the room with her and I said, I just had this conversation and she knew a lot of the backstory I just had this and this is what they said and this is what I said and and she was about to speak and I was like but I'm okay with it all and it's fine it's at peace and I want to just move on with my life now and she turned around to me was like you are the most stubborn person I've ever met and I can't believe that you're saying this to me right now and that was when I knew I was like I'm making progress because I feel good even though I'm terrified I feel better and you know I could then sort of close that chapter of my life and know that you know I had yeah exactly and then I think the last step really for me was just realizing that I just need to take time to care for myself and I need to say no to things and people and I need to

like actually take the time to sort things out when I feel sad or, you know, if I'm, because it just makes you the most ineffective person when you just stress about a million things. And it could all have been solved by, you know, that two weekends ago when you wanted to do that thing that was going to make you feel good and you didn't. And now you're paying for it in like a week of low time. paying for it in like a week of low time. So I think like actual time for self-care and yeah, stop doing things for other people because you know what made them feel good, but makes you feel kind of horrible. Right, right. Well, I'm glad that you said yes to me to do this, but you know, maybe you didn't want to. what are what are some of the things you do now for self-care well i think like do you get massages do you go like just walk in nature

do you journal do you just chill out and i do a lot so i'm more creative now i do a painting oh that's cool which i I like. I write words. They're like poems, but I'm telling myself that I'm just looking for my Elton John and then there'll be songs. Yeah, I just take a lot more time of self-care. I get eight hours sleep every night, but an hour before, I like to get ready for bed and it, like, makes you feel good. Like, in low times, like, it's quite common for people, but, like, you just stop caring about yourself completely. You don't do anything.

You don't eat good food. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, I think I just, like, I stopped binge eating. So I'd struggled with that sort of thing. Just a box of brownies and cookies. Oh, so good. Just stop that. Stop that. I stopped a lot of things.

I don't binge drink anymore. I quit drinking, but now I will have a glass of wine with my dinner or something. But I don't binge drink at all anymore. I just live a lot more simply now, I think. have a glass of wine with my dinner or something but I don't binge drink at all anymore I've just lived a lot I just live a lot more simply now I think and like I spend just a lot more time with myself um I used to fill everything with seeing people and doing things and like you know trying to be there for you know do things for other people but I think really now I look at my life and it's like five miles an hour and it just looks like peaceful and like very calm. And I think that was like the biggest

change for me is like having a free evening and, you know. Not booking your schedule to do everything all the time. Yeah. Just cooking dinner and not being, you know, not ordering delivery on your way home at 1130 at night and eating it in bed and then going to sleep and then waking up at six. And that's what it was like. It was just around the clock mayhem. And now I just feel very calm. That's great.

What advice would you have for other young women who maybe feel super anxious, super stressed out, hate themselves, ask themselves, why am I even here? What advice would you have for them or coaching or guidance if they're listening to this i think to just slow everything down to write things out to i mean i think it really depends but i think like giving yourself the there's lots of different types of like therapy that you can go and do um you know cb cbt or something i don't know that but if that's not really for you i think it's like just asking yourself really really difficult questions like questioning getting

to the root look further and further within within because the answers are all there. And I think you're capable of finding that on your own. Ask yourself, why do you make yourself feel like this? Because no one else is doing that to you. Right. Why? And don't stop until you've cried every last tear about the reason why. Keep picking yourself and keep trying to understand it I'm still you know on my way to figuring that sort of thing out I think you know

it's definitely like just like layers and layers of like you know trying to understand that but I think it's all within you and I think to find, getting support and help from friends or boyfriends can be, like, really, really wonderful. But at the end of the day, like, you can't mask any of your problems with that. Because they'll just come back in three years' time when it's even harder to grasp. Yeah, because you did that. You, like, got into a new relationship. And then you masked it and everything was good for a while. But you were still angry underneath later. Because you hadn't addressed certain things that you were

frustrated about before exactly so i think it's just like it's all within you yeah understanding that and you know every day i live my life differently now i feel like even being aware today that i'm anxious like an understanding that i I, if I, you know, if I come off a certain way, like I'm just aware I don't come off in a certain way now because I'm just understanding that I'm anxious rather than pretending that I'm not and being mean or, you know, however it comes out in different people. Snobby or whatever it is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I think, you know, just it's like not just, I think like looking within yourself is like the answer to so many problems in life.

Yeah. Have you read the book, The Alchemist? No, it's Ruben's favorite. It's his favorite? It is. You got to read this. I do, I do. But it's all about the treasures within you, you know, the answers within you.

It takes you on a beautiful journey to discover that. What do you think is your biggest fear right now? My biggest fear? Not like spiders, but you know. I think I have no doubts that I'm going to do wonderful things with my life, but I have a tendency to judge myself based on other people's opinions of me. And that's sort of where a lot of my anxieties have always been. And something that I'm trying to change, but I don't know, you know, one year of doing that isn't going to solve that. And so I think, you know, now with the show ending and moving forwards into my life and deciding what I want to do.

I just worry that if people are very vocal about what they think on my life, that it might affect me, even if it just upsets me. Like, that kind of scares me because when I get upset, it makes me just forget a lot of the things that I've worked so hard to try and understand. Because you put that energy on that upset or people's opinions. Exactly. As opposed to the good things you've done. Yeah.

Or your mission or what you want to create. Yeah. And that's when it starts creeping back in, you know. It's like one knock or one thing you read and then it can just spiral. And I know that I'm still very capable of doing that. So it's just that's what my biggest fear is for the future because I don't want it to stop me from doing things I want to do. But other people's opinions do still really affect me. So how do you detach your emotions to what other people say about you?

Positive or negative? I don't know if this is the right answer, but for now, what I'm going to do is uh not see them don't read any newspapers don't read social media comments yeah i mean that's definitely not the answer um that's helpful i think too yeah but i think for me it's going to be about coming away from sort of social media and you know if i'm trying something new i want to be able to try it and realize it and figure it out before I like have to present it to someone for their opinion. But the thing is about being famous and doing anything is that people are always watching you. So you can't, you know, I can't

ever be a beginner at anything again because everyone's like waiting for you, you know, judging you. Exactly. It's like, what makes you think that you can do that? I'm like, well, I don't know. I'm just figuring it out right now. So I think, you know, at least locking myself away until I, you know, know exactly what it is that I want to go out and do next. I think that's important and something that I'm so excited for, just to be able to take time out and be creative on my own and maybe even study again. I always told myself I'd never go back to school, but I think I might.

Ah, there you go. Yeah. Because you've been doing this show for, what, 10 years now? Yeah, 10 years in a few months. Wow. It's consumed your life. My whole adolescence. I was a full child, like 12 years old,

and now I'm a full adult. But, a full adult, but you know, over 21 is like, you know, you're officially an adult. Exactly. So at least age wise, emotionally. Emotionally, I think I was more grown up. Yeah, no, it really has been. Yeah. Everyone's watched me grow up. Yeah. Are you more excited about the show being over and seeing what's next? Or are you more worried about, well, am I going to book a big show again with a big role? Because I know some actors, we talked about this last time, they've been big stars for years. The show ends and then they can't even get a casting for the next three years. Yeah.

My idea of success for my future isn't trying to do something that was as successful as Game of Thrones again. That's smart. Most people don't have that point of view. Yeah. I think that's where I've clashed opinions with a lot of people in my life for what I want my future to be. And for me, I don't see success as always going bigger and better and bigger and better because it's not what I want. I have no intention of being any more famous than I am right now. I'm happy for that to just get less and less. And in terms of like being an actor and the characters that I want to play and the emotions that I want to sort of portray, it's very rare to find those sort of things within, you know, very, very big movies.

tray it's very rare to find those sort of things within you know very very big movies and they sometimes don't ask questions that are you know moving enough or deep enough or real enough and I think that I really want to tell stories that are heartbreaking or I want to just like feel really, I'm a very emotional person. I feel things very, very deeply. And I love that. And I want other people to feel that watching movies. And when things are kind of sugar-coated and, you know, just kind of a little offensive. When it's too weak, yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. So you want to create more opportunities too weak, yeah. Yeah.

I think, yeah. So you want to create more opportunities like that for yourself. Yeah. And, you know, and even not just in the acting world, but, you know, other personal achievements and things that I judge my life on. And, yeah, I don't want to run a marathon, right? By when? We're not talking about it.

What age do you want to complete it by? Well, this is the thing. It's like, I don't want, I want to do it for myself and no one else. And so it's like, I don't even want people to know when I'm doing it. I don't. And like, you know, I could raise so much money by doing a marathon and, you know, I'd rather just donate that out of my own pocket than, like, having this, I'm doing this. It's pressure. It's not about anyone else. And, yeah. That's cool.

So it's just, yeah. So it's things that I want with my life that I think, like, you know, it's hard to convey to, like, a manager or someone. Right, right. Yeah. Personal stuff you want. Yeah, just personal little things that I want to do with my life. That's cool. What would you say is your superpower?

Empathy, maybe? I don't know if that's... It's a powerful one. Yeah. That's a very powerful superpower. I feel like I've felt a lot of emotions, and I can feel them for other people and I have friends that aren't anywhere near as like emotional as me and I love that and I can see it and like you know the pure

happiness and joy of like the amazing things they've experienced in their lives and it's like so beautiful but at the same time like i feel like i can just feel real sadness for other people um and like it can really yeah consume me sometimes but it's a superpower it can also be your kryptonite exactly yeah so you got to learn how to manage it yeah sometimes yeah exactly and like be proactive like on your empathy like use it happy yeah help someone you know see what what's making them sad or whatever it is and like you know be able to understand it enough within myself about what I needed to do at that moment and, you know, how I can help someone in that moment. I like that. Yeah. Who was the most influential person in your life growing up and what was the biggest lesson they taught you? My mother was the most influential person in my life and she taught me,

I mean, everything. But I think, know I'm two things are coming to mind right now she taught me to never like put a limit on anything that I'm capable of um she like according to my mom I can rule the world and having that sort of support makes you when you ask like how did you manage to get through all of that when you were like putting yourself down so much just never believed that I couldn't do something um so she taught me that and then I think through seeing my mother um grow up and I think understanding the way my mother feels about herself definitely sometimes negatively impacted me. But I think in turn, now that I've understood it, has made me love myself for her, even if she sometimes can't love herself. You know what I mean?

Right. So I think that was something that is very fresh to me, and I can see a lot. Wow. That's cool. She seems like an inspiring woman. She's incredible. My mother has done everything. She is just, there's no one quite like her.

She's done a lot with her life. Wow. Yeah, she's very special. very special. If you were 30 years out and hypothetically you're still here right now, but then you're 30 years older, 51, and you were seeing yourself right now going through everything you've gone through in the last five years, especially in the last year, what advice would you give yourself now, with hindsight, 30 years out, for the next chapter of your life? Just keep running.

Try everything. What are you waiting for? I think I'm very excited for the next 10 years of my life. And I definitely have no idea what's going to happen. And that's so exciting to me. And I hope by the time I get to 30 years down the line, I've done everything, everything that there is to do in this world. And I've met everyone.

And that's what I want to have achieved. I don't want to be stuck anywhere. I think I've relied so heavily on this really great opportunity that I was given so young, but it's like I want to run away from it and just live a normal life and see what I can achieve on that. Yeah, I want to try it all. I'm a very creative person. I hope I've explored all of those avenues in 30 years. Yeah.

That's good advice. I like that. I want to do a couple of final questions and we'll wrap things up. You've got a new startup called Daisy. I do. Now, I just saw kind of behind the scenes of it. You were showing me a little bit of it. It looks really cool.

Yes. Can you explain what it is and what your mission is and how people can get involved if they're listening or watching? So I started Daisy for artists and creative people. People always say if you want to break into the industry, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And I think when you know nobody, that's kind of a very jarring thing to hear.

Depressing. Yes. So I wanted to create like a social media platform for artists and creative people to be able to discover and network other people across industries and collaborate with them on projects

that you know they want to build so whether that's like a musician who needs a videographer to shoot like a music video or it's like a photographer who's going to shoot you know an artist in their new gallery or across industries and people being able to really like source these people that they need to be able to elevate the work that they're already doing. I think the key to success is collaborating and finding new audiences. And I think the more people you can work with and the bigger your network can become, even if it's at a very basic level and an amateur level, I think that's the sort of thing that really starts to catch people's eyes and help you break into the industry. So that's why we created it. And, you know. All types of creatives can be artists to graphic design to

photography. Yeah, film, fashion, music, photography, art, literature. Writing, everything. All of it across the board. We want you to be a part of our platform and we want you to find like-minded people and find your place amongst, you know, I think a lot of creative people feel rejected from social medias like Instagram or, you know, they feel like they're not part of the cool club. And I think Daisy is really about celebrating that messy middle and giving these people a place to really express themselves and find the people that love what they do and don't think it's weird. That's cool. Yeah. Right now it's in beta, but people can get on a wait list or they can sign up for the next. Yeah. So May will be when people can find us. We're www.daisy.com. Daisy with an IE, like my name. And you can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, see all of the updates or join our mailing list.

And yeah, you'll be in very soon. In the club. The cool club. Artist club. The club of like the anti-club. The anti-club. Yeah. I love it.

So daisy.com, D-A-I-S-I-E. D-A-I-S-I-E. D-A-I-S-I-E. Daisy on social media as well. Make sure you guys join that. That is happening right now. You also have a podcast that you're launching. Yeah, Thinking Big.

Thinking Big. Thinking Big with Maisie Williams. Oh, snap. It's about childhood dreams and, you know, when you're a kid, what you wanted to be when you grew up and how that compares to what people are doing now. And then, you know, the idea of like from now, what's your big dream for the future? And show that, you know, the idea of like from now, what's your big dream for the future and show that, you know, that evolution never really stops.

Yeah, it's been really, really wonderful. I've just speak to a lot of really creative people. And I think it's really interesting to see that for so many creative people, it's like their career is taking off. But usually that means that you're sort of crying into a pillow. So it's interesting. Yeah.

When their career takes off, they cry into a pillow? Yeah, I think that was, isn't that a line from, I think it's Devil Wears Prada, something like, like if your career is going well, I don't know. I'm going to misquote it,

but there's a really great line from Devil Wears Prada just about like, you know, when your career is taking off, like your personal life is usually. Oh, your personal life is like suffering. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you put all your energy into your career or your dream, but then you lose yourself over it. I think you talk to so many people. And, you know, I've not talked to many for my podcast, but in terms of interviewing people for Daisy.com and, you know, the magazine or the profiles and, you know, content that will all be up on the website soon, I think what I've really learned from creative people is that like there's a lot of pain that's what makes you so good but

that's what also you know makes you apart yeah and trying to balance that is like the the mission for so many people wow yeah and it's just like a constant like teetering on that scale of am i gonna lose it all or am i gonna be very very successful it's just always like that and i think you know for anyone who wants to get into the creative industry is like it's um it is like that you know it's like people who have this drive and this mentality to go all the way it's like it's not within a lot of people it's very powerful it's going to be toxic too if it can control you and consume you i mean that's where you see some of our greatest most talented artists of our you know of our generation in their 20s 27 is usually the age where they kind of either go the other way through and make it

through or they just yeah and the amount of like add brains that have spoken to people that like struggle with this disorder and it's like made in these like incredibly incredibly creative people who are going to do you know amazing things with their lives and like you know it's very interesting what i thought add was and then meeting these people and realizing like oh it's people that don't have you know their focus yet they don't have the thing that makes them tick yet yeah and when you do oh my goodness yeah people like you know this artist Chloe Wise who like hashes out of painting in five days and she's like this huge canvas and she's like that's it I'm done and then she

goes on to the next one this is like, like it's like painted pictures of like pictures she's taken of her, of her friends. And it's like multimedia kind of. And she like will just go and paint and paint and paint. And when she's done, she's done. She will not touch it again. She'll move on to the next one. You know, artists can't do that a lot. It's like a very interesting part of her brain that can just churn things out like that.

It's incredible. It's crazy. Yeah. You know, you can't lock someone in a room and just say like paint 17 canvases. It's hard. You know, a lot of people can't do that sort of thing and find that sort of thing insane. So yeah, I think it's been really interesting to me and seeing these oddball people and realizing like, no, that's what makes you successful. Yeah. And I think, you know, for, for people, it's very important to find those oddball things about yourself embrace them yeah

and go all in uh you got daisy you've got thinking big the game of thrones all happening right around the same time it's gonna be very exciting next couple of months for you it is uh is there anything else that you want to share talk about let us know about that we can support you with no i don't think so there's all of that crazy stuff going on but i think just like you know to remember that it looks all very superhuman but it's just a girl underneath it all just a girl looking at a boy what's that line what's that line asking him to love what movie is that it's uh notting hill is that? It's Notting Hill. Is that Notting Hill? Oh, that's here.

Yes. We've got to go to Notting Hill soon. We do. I've got to check it out. That's Old Speller Road. You should go. Yes. I've been there before, but I've got to go take some photos. Go and see the blue door.

Okay, yeah. Travel bookshop. What's the line? Tell me the line. Just a girl standing in front of a boy asking him to love her. I love that we're in London right now. Okay, so we can follow you on Instagram. Instagram, yeah.

Even though you want to be less famous. I'm going to be maybe like sort of drifting away from all of that sort of thing soon. Which is Maisie underscore Williams? Maisie underscore Williams, yeah, on most social platforms. So if you guys, before she goes away from social media, go follow her right now. Take a screenshot of this video or audio. Tag her on the Instagram story. Let her know what you enjoyed about this the most. I'm sure she'd love to hear the thoughts and feedback on this. So make sure to tag Maisie and let her know. I've got two final questions for you. This is

called the three truths. Okay. So imagine it's your last day on earth 100, 200 years from now. You have superhuman strength. You live as long as you want. But then one day, you got to call it quits. You got to move on to the next chapter, the next scene, if we want to keep it in theme there. You've done it all. You listened to your 51-year-old self who said, go adventure, go do everything, meet everyone. You did everything you wanted to do. You lived the most incredible life of your dreams. You look back, you have zero regrets. And you get to leave the world with three lessons, three truths that this is all they

would have to remember you by. From every lesson and experience you've had, the people you've met, the things you've loved, the losses, everything, three things you get to leave behind for the world to remember you by? From every lesson and experience you've had, the people you've met, the things you've loved, the losses, everything, three things you get to leave behind for the world to remember you by. What would you write down as your three truths? I think the first would be, I don't know how to put it into words. I guess it's like how I'm remembered by other people means nothing unless I feel good about myself. So I don't know how I turn that into like a truth. So kind of like the opinions of other people doesn't mean anything unless you feel good about, unless you love yourself. Exactly. I like that.

That's a good truth. Exactly. I like that. That's a good truth. The second, take care of the people around you. Put out good energy into the world. Be a beacon of light even in some real dark days that we're going through right now. I think the last one would be to look up when you're in the world.

Because I don't do that. And I think that we can all learn a lot from realizing how beautiful this world is. a lot from realizing how beautiful this world is. I want to acknowledge you, Maisie, for opening up. Thank you for sharing, even though I know you said you didn't want to be this vulnerable. I acknowledge you for your gifts, for being a beautiful young woman, for caring deeply about people, because I think that's an incredible superpower, that most people don't have empathy like you do. So I acknowledge you for that and I acknowledge you for waking up just realizing that way of living wasn't

powerful for you and it wasn't helping anyone else and now you can do some beautiful things in the world even more so so I acknowledge you for all this thank you very much I have one final question. Okay. And that is, what is your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is that feeling. The feeling of not being able to be brought down. And it's not arrogance and it's not disregarding other people's feelings. But greatness is a feeling that you can achieve anything. You can be anything. It's that feeling that will get you through that next hurdle. Greatness to me is like your best day when you wake up. And my three truths that I spoke about, like you're going to do every single one and it's going to be like no sweat and it's going to be just a beautiful day. Greatness is that feeling that

you get. Amazing. Appreciate you. You rock. Thank you. Thank you. It's amazing. There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this interview with Maisie Williams, such a young, incredible star who is tapping into her heart in a big way and inspiring the world. So grateful for her for sharing and for all that she's up to. Make sure to check her out on Instagram. Take a screenshot of this podcast. Let her know what you thought. Just shoot her a tag over there on your Instagram story. Leave a comment on some of her stuff and send her some good vibes and some good love her way. If you want to listen to the full video or watch the full video, you can go to lewishouse.com slash 784 and watch there. Make sure to subscribe to us on YouTube. If you listen on Spotify, you can listen to us there as well. SoundCloud and all the other places that podcasts are listed.

Make sure to leave us a review. If you enjoyed this, please leave a review. It helps us spread the message of greatness far and wide. So head over to your iTunes app or your Apple Podcast app and leave us a review over on School of Greatness. I know some of you are struggling. Some of you are dealing with emotional anxiety, stress, overwhelm. Some of you are dealing with insecurities. Some of you are dealing with depression and other challenges.

And Oscar Wilde said, to love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance. I can't emphasize how important it is to take care of your own heart and your own thoughts and your emotions. The things you say about yourself, you manifest. So if you talk negatively and continue to say how ugly, how stupid, how unlucky you are, how undeserving you are of love, then you will manifest and create that in your body and in your environment. I used to be this way for many, many years. and in your environment.

I used to be this way for many, many years. It used to cripple me. It used to always be anxious, stressed, overwhelmed. I used to always beat myself up emotionally and it manifested in other ways. You are so deserving of love, but it's your choice and you have to choose in every moment to love yourself or not.

I choose to love myself. It's something that takes a lot of practice and was weird and unfamiliar when I started to do it because I never really felt like I was deserving. But when you start to develop the habit of love for yourself, it starts to become a norm. And you look back after the years of doing it and you say to yourself, why did I ever beat myself up? Why did I ever doubt myself? Why did I ever question that I was deserving of love? It's something that is foreign, but then becomes so familiar and you're so grateful when you're in that state. but then becomes so familiar and you're so grateful when you're in that state.

So I want to remind you that you can have the most incredible romance if you just start loving yourself. And this doesn't need to be some egotistical love, but it can be a calm centered love knowing that you are worth deserving of that love. And as Maya Angelou said, as you grow older,

you will discover that you have two hands, one for helping yourself, the other for helping others. I think both are equally as important, but it's really hard to serve other people in humanity when you don't help yourself. I love you all so very much. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.