The School of Greatness - 832 Whitney Cummings on Loving Yourself, Addiction and Creative Success

Episode Date: August 5, 2019

WE HAVE TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES. We learn a lot of coping mechanisms when we’re younger. They help us get through tough times. But so many of us are still carrying around tactics that are no longer needed. They can make us defensive. They can prevent us from developing relationships. And they can hold us back from our goals. We need to “update our software.” Our situation has changed, but our brain has stayed the same. By working through your issues and not being afraid to change, we can learn healthier ways to move through the world. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about letting go of the things that no longer serve us with a world-famous comedian: Whitney Cummings. Whitney Cummings is a stand-up comedian, actress and producer. She created the CBS sitcom 2 Broke Girls, the NBC sitcom Whitney, and the movie The Female Brain. She was also a producer and writer for the ABC revival of Roseanne. So get ready to learn all about codependency and reinventing yourself on Episode 832. Some Questions I Ask: When did you realize you were good at stand up? (6:30) What are you most proud of? (29:00) Who was more influential growing up- mom or dad? (51:00) How do you deal with the Hollywood ups and downs? (1:06:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why we should forgive our parents (20:00) How anxiety can help you (27:00) How to change the type of people you’re attracted to (36:00) Why your relationship needs to be “boring” (41:30) The difference between interdependence and codependency (48:00) Why financial freedom is important to Whitney (1:00:00) About PC culture and stand up comedy (1:33:00) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes and more at: http://www.lewishowes.com/832 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes.

Episode number 832 with the inspirational Whitney Cummings. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Mary Tyler Moore said, Take chances, make mistakes. That's how you grow.

Pain nourishes your courage. You have to fail in order to practice being brave. I hope you're practicing being brave today because that's the way you're going to grow. That's the way you're going to build confidence within yourself when you do those things that are a little bit risky. And the more risk you take, the more you're going to build that confidence within and definitely grow. And I'm excited to talk about our guest today.

I had an incredible time. But before I dive in on our guest,. I had an incredible time. But before I dive in on our guest, I want to remind you that the Summit of Greatness, our annual event, is less than a month away. That's right. We've got so many people flying in from all over the world. Everyone's getting their tickets last minute. It's how people do it, I guess, these days. So if you're one of those last minute people, I do this as well. Make sure to go to summitofgreatness.com. Check out the incredible speakers we have.

We've got some of the most inspiring speakers in the world, workout leaders who are going to lead you with great workouts in the morning and some special surprises like we always do. If you've been to one of our previous three annual events, then you know it's always a time to remember. So go to summitofgreatness.com right now and check it out. We are one month away. I want to high five you. I want to hug you. I want to say hi. I want to hear

about your story. So make sure to get there because there's just going to be so many incredible people you will meet and I don't want you to miss out this year. So make sure to go to summitofgreatness.com. don't want you to miss out this year. So make sure to go to someoneofgreatness.com. Today, we've got the hilarious and inspiring Whitney Cummings. And you hear a different side of Whitney in this interview. We really dive into a lot of things. I think she was a little shocked on some of the questions I asked her, and I was really moved by a lot of her responses. And I really just enjoyed my time and my company with her. I saw her on stage one time, laughed my butt off, and really got to dive into the work she's done. Now, she's a comedian, an actor, producer,

an author who's appeared in multiple TV shows and films, as well as multiple stand-up specials. You've probably seen her either on Netflix or online or one of her movies. One of her stand-up specials was nominated for an American Comedy Award. She created also the sitcom, the massive mega hit, Two Broke Girls. You've probably watched that show. And the show Whitney.

And her TV appearances have been on Comedians of Chelsea Lately, Live Nude Comedy, which she created, starred, and wrote for, and the Comedy Central roasts of Joan Rivers, David Hasselhoff, and Donald Trump. Her incredible book, I'm Fine and Other Lies, was out in 2017, and her film, The Female Brain, which I saw on a plane recently, is now available for streaming. Her latest comedy special, Can I Touch It?, is also on Netflix right now. It's a funny one. Make sure you go watch Can I Touch It? on Netflix also. In this interview, we talk about why desperate energy is repellent. It's repellent. In her business, the Hollywood business, it's definitely repellent, and it's also in almost every career possible. When anxiety can be a good thing in life,

the importance of loving yourself in a way that is also self-aware, the addiction of being a victim and how Whitney broke free of all of it herself, and doing work for yourself and not for the reward. Whitney takes a lot of risks that don't always get massive rewards, but that's what helps her grow. That's what makes her become more brave, more curious, more exciting, more adventurous, and what's what makes people respect her more. It's one of the reasons I respect her because of the risks she takes and the constant work she's willing to do on herself. So get ready for this one. I think you're going to really love it. Make sure to share it with your friends and just share it with one friend today. One friend you think this will inspire,

text them the link lewishouse.com slash 832. Text one friend the link to the podcast that you're listening to or just lewishouse.com slash 832 and spread the message of greatness, of inspiration, of learning, of knowledge. These tools can really help us grow when we apply just one principle from someone who's been there, who's done that, who's achieved great things, who's had big failures. And you can be someone's hero and champion today by just texting them right now. So whoever's on your mind right now that you really care about and think about, send them a text with a link to the podcast app that you're listening to or lewishouse.com slash 832. And do me a favor while you're listening,

leave a review on Apple Podcast and write a review. I don't care how many stars you give me, just write a review of what this specific episode has done for you. I'd love to hear your thoughts, your specific thoughts. And we share with our team, we share with our audience the impact that we make on other people. So I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Just write a review. You can leave one star, five star, it doesn't matter to me. But I just want to hear your thoughts. I want to hear from you. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the inspirational Whitney Cummings. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the inspiring and hilarious Whitney Cummings in the house.

Thank you. I'm super pumped you're here. Thanks for having me. I watched your movie on a plane like eight months ago. Yeah? Female Brain. Yeah. And it showed a different side.

Did none of the other movies load or what was happening? What was you having? She's already got it. She's like zing, zing. I'm just curious. No, because I wanted to learn more about you. I think I saw you at whatever,

a comedy store. Which one is it? Oh, really? Comedy store? Yeah. I saw you there probably a year ago. I've only been there maybe four times in seven years since I've been in it.

Oh, wow. Maybe four or five times. And I went there and you were performing and I was dying. Really? You're so talented. A year ago, I must have been working on new material. A year and a half. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty rough.

So I was probably, yes. That seems like when I was just starting this new hour and it was probably only premises. No, it was amazing. Oh, thank you. It was amazing. And I was in the balcony watching you. I actually tweeted you afterwards, not that you saw it, but I was just like, wow, I really admire the way you work the room, the way you tell amazing stories.

And I think you were even saying, I'm working on new materials, so work with me here. Yeah, yeah. But you weren't allowing any of it to show that you were insecure in any way, which I think you were talking beforehand that a lot of comedians are always insecure. Yeah, which is what drives us. And, you know, I know that we're all on this quest to solve insecurity and make it all go away. But insecurity sometimes drives us to do good things and get better and work harder, you know.

So I think insecurity can be good fuel sometimes. It's not good if you're just, that's your default state. That's something to work on. But yeah, I definitely, it took me a long time to embrace the fact that in stand-up, you succeed by failing over and over again. It's like going to the gym. You're not always going to have the killer day that you want to put on Instagram. Standing ovation, laughing out of their minds,

snorting, yeah, milk. Most people just see, you know, it's like a sculpture. Most people just see when it's done in the museum, right? You don't see the chiseling and the messing up and the fixing and the repasting and the whack-a-mole. You know, that's stand-up when you come and see comedians, you know, cobbling together.

You're going to see comedians at every level sort of figuring it out. I have no desire to be a comedian, but I feel like it would be the most incredible training for my personal growth. I think everyone should do it once. Even once. Fail miserably and get laughed at in a bad way.

I think you wouldn't. I think that you're so authentic and you know who you are. That's the key to it, I think. It's not about saying the thing that's the funniest. It's saying the thing that's the truest and that matches people's perception of you the most. You'll find out right away how people perceive you, which is kind of an interesting exercise. Interesting. Mm-hmm. What was the time that you realized, okay, I'm actually not that bad? You know what I mean? Because there's probably a period of, or were you just always funny

and it always, people laughed and clapped and cheered? I mean, no. I mean, it's tricky because then you think you're great and then you have a bad couple months and then you think you suck and then you, you know, have nothing to lose. So all of a sudden you're great one night just because you don't give a crap anymore. Yeah. And then you go, oh, whoa.

It was the trying too hard that was repellent to people. And so as soon as you stop giving a crap because you think you suck, sometimes that's when you do your best work. So I think that I've never got that right. There's a dysmorphia involved in it. So you still need to prepare and care about your material but not care what people think about you. In a way, yeah. You have to care a ton and then as soon as you get on

stage you can't care at all. Really? It's like this switch you have to turn on and off but it's also, you can do the same set same jokes, same way two nights. One time you get a standing ovation, the next night you just bomb. Really? Why is that? Depending on your energy, depending on how in the moment you are.

I think that I took some boxing classes a couple years ago, and I couldn't believe how much stand-up it was. If you're a second ahead or you're a second behind, the joke's not going to land. You just have to be listening. It's a conversation with the audience. A joke that worked the night before might not work tonight. Like, you just have to be, like, listening. It's a conversation with the audience. You know, a joke that worked the night before might not work tonight. You just can't go into autopilot.

You just have to be right there. You've got to feel the energy. Yeah. Every city is different. Every venue is different. Every group of people is different. There's a bachelorette party in the corner. Weed's legal in California.

It's different pacing in L.A. now. You know, it's just kind of being flexible and detaching from your plan and detaching from the rote memorization or detaching from this worked 50 times. So I'm just going to do the same thing I've done. It's just being willing to detach from all the things that worked for the past year and being flexible, I think. And did you always want to be in comedy, you know, in school growing up? Yeah. I don't think I knew that's what I was meant to do. I was, you know, I hit a couple different walls that I thought, like, I thought I was

going to be a journalist. Really? You know, because I was, like, a seeker, and I was curious, and I was critical, and I always wanted to get the dirt. Like, comics were kind of snitches at heart, right? You know, we're complainy snitches at heart right you know we're complainy snitches that are obsessed with justice and i thought i was going to be like an upton sinclair where i was going to like go into factories and reveal that we're obsessed with that stuff we're obsessed

with secrets and lies and injustices and then um i was also a performer and i was also like doing theater and play and singing dancing, no singing as a strong boundary. How dare you? No, not like a theater kid. I was doing like very serious plays. Like Shakespeare? Like a doll's house, like Ibsen's A Doll's House, which was sort of about this woman and a

bad relationship, you know, so I kind of was like and then when I was hanging out with my friends, I would tell these really long, boring stories about how I like hated how you can't find your car in a parking lot and I don't like the ticketing system. And I didn't realize what I was doing with stand-up. I didn't realize. Those are the conversations that do the best on stand-up. Totally.

And I was just sort of like, oh, I have a huge complaint and I want to talk about it for 40 minutes. This isn't a date. This isn't what you do on dates. This is what you do in front of an audience. This is what you do in front of an audience. Or your girlfriends. I totally, I was dancing around it. I was dancing around it and then someone one day, and I think just to get me to shut up, was like, you should try stand up. It was the way of saying, get this out of here. There's a couple of moments. I'm not obsessed with comedians like studying it all

and going to all the shows and watching everything but i enjoy it yeah you know it's fun for me i watch different stuff when it's on netflix or i'll go to the comedy store once a year yeah type of thing but i remember i don't know if you're friends with them dane cook had us like a cd special like 15 years ago that he told a joke that was still in my mind. Yeah. Something like you talking about the parking ticket system. Whatever it was, yeah. And he was talking about when you're in a parking garage and your tires like squeal.

And for some reason this joke like stayed with me. It's nothing crazy funny or some out of the world experience. It just resonated with you and you felt connected and I think that's what stand-ups do is like you put a bunch of strangers in a room and they all agree on something. They all connect on something. They vote differently. They have different

interests in movies and women and men. Who knows? Different races, different experience backgrounds. They agree on something. Different socioeconomics get together and go, the wheels squealing in the park. We all have that universal experience. It's finding the things that we can all kind of agree on. I think that always interested me. You know, I grew up in a home that was not harmonious, where there was a lot of discord, a lot of disagreement.

And I always kind of wanted to get everyone to agree and laugh. Interesting. It was always like to try to sort of just manage tension. It was always like, if I can make this person laugh, maybe Christmas will be fun. You know, like it was always kind of just trying to manage people. And then, you know, as an adult, it's almost like a herding dog, a shepherd that wants to get everyone in one place. I just sort of have this instinct of trying to go like, we actually have more in common than we don't. Yeah.

It's something that it's just like an instinct that I don't know if you can teach. Are you a younger sibling? I'm the youngest. The peacemaker, always, yes. I mean, we've got some illegitimate ones floating around, but three that we know of. So I'm the youngest of four. For some reason, I just knew that you had an older sibling based on the way you were talking there. Always. Youngest of three.

What was the biggest discourse within the family? I mean, it was, this is not, you know, I have no victim stuff about it or regret about it. You know, there's just the divorce and alcoholism and a lot of mental illness in my house growing up. A lot of, you know, we're very lucky. We're at a generation that has podcasts like yours and books like this. Tools to learn from. My parents didn't have those tools. It was passive-aggressive communication.

It was everything's fine, everything's fine, then a huge explosion of resentment. There was no, like, talking about that. I also grew up with a mother that I'm really proud that I had, but she was the kind of first generation of women that was balancing full-time career and kids. So she was under a tremendous amount of stress and didn't have child care and was just always so stressed out and exhausted. But taught me, she was up at 6 a.m. and she was home at 7 p.m. and she brought me to work with her but I just saw her trying to manage everything and you know it was always like how do I just make things easier for everybody else and the joke kind of to me was like a magic trick. I was like whoa that was easy. That

was an easy way to get love. That was an easy way to cut some tension. Yeah. So I learned early on how to kind of tap dance. We all did you know think we all grew up in, we're the first generation that isn't turning to alcohol and anger and rage and some kind of just quick dopamine hit. Or doing other dopamine hits, which is like meditation, working out, eight hours of sleep, eating healthy. A false sense of control. It's our new addiction. It's trying to optimize certain things that we can to ease the pain. Maybe overcorrecting it is in a way. This is crazy because-

Self-help-ism is kind of the new-ism. It's crazy because we're very similar based on what you're telling me. My parents were passive aggressive. There was no love or affection. Zero. It was like they forced the love to try to show it. They should have been divorced before I was even born. Was there shame around getting a divorce?

Yeah, they stayed together because of us, right? It wasn't because they loved each other. Maybe they loved each other in some sense, but they were both working full-time jobs to pay for all four of us kids. And my mom, she was working full-time and then trying to take care of us. It's almost like they went crazy.

Yeah. And you're watching overwhelm. You're watching. Stress, overwhelm, screaming, fighting, constantly leaving the house and uncertainty. That's right. Inconsistency, stormy. And it's also, I think, as a kid, because you don't understand the emotional one plus one equals two. So you're just trying whatever you can.

And the same thing you're punished for one day, you're rewarded for the next day. It's like, to me, I never understood what added up. So it was like, be funny, be loud, tap dance, come out. So I was always sort of experimenting with what worked. But I grew up in, and I wrote a book about codependence, which is something that is kind of a word we use to describe like relationships where you spend a lot of time together, which is not really what, it can be codependence, but I didn't understand that I grew up in a, you know, alcoholic home, but also a very codependent home, which were

people did a lot of things out of obligation. People pleased to feel, yeah. And which is very, it's part of like tradition, I think, in our culture. I won't speak for other cultures, but it is, you go to church on Sunday, you have to do this. You have to go to this bridal shower. You have to bring a gift. You have to go to this housewarming. There was a lot of sort of love that I now realized was obligation, socializing that was obligation. We have to go to Christmas. And so many people were divorced that it was like going to nine people's houses for Christmas. And I didn't really learn do what you want to do that makes you feel.

It just forced yourself to do things, white knuckle through things. You do things out of obligation. And be resentful the whole time. That's right. And codependence breeds resentment. So I'm just going to be miserable. And socializing is joyless.

Like I really had to work hard to make socializing joyful later because I just didn't have a concept that it wasn't work. It's interesting. You know, I felt very similar. And when I was 13, I begged my parents to send me away

because I just didn't want to be in the environment anymore. So this is why I went to St. Louis. I went to a private boarding school. I've met some kids that were just more positive. I was like, I want to be in the environment anymore. So this is why I went to St. Louis. I went to a private boarding school. I've met some kids that were just more positive. I was like, I want to be around these group of kids who are thinking differently, who just feel like they're in better environments, better family environments. And I begged them for a whole summer to send me to this school seven hours away from Ohio where I was living.

And it sounded like you tried to escape as well. Yeah, I didn't ask to be sent away. It wasn't as, that sounds very civilized. Yeah, I kind of got sent. I had. Oh, you did? Yeah, I got sort of sent to Virginia. Oh, wait, how old were you?

Because I was acting out. I was 12. Shut up. I know, we have a similar thing. That's a trip. Holy cow. Yeah. So you got sent away. I was 13. We have a similar thing. That's a trip. Holy cow. Yeah. So you got sent away.

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. I got sent away because there was, you know, various family drama. Oh, my gosh. Hardcore. Yeah. And it was like my parents kind of just, it was too much for them. So I went and I lived with my aunts in Virginia for a while.

About an hour and a half, two hours away? Yeah, a little more. Like four hours away. Four hours away. Wow. For how long? About three years. So you went to middle school, high school for a little bit in Virginia, away from your parents.

You see them in summer? I see them on weekends or, yeah. You know, and I think that was okay. It's interesting. You know, we're so, it's, you know, and I have all sorts of scars around that and character-building moments, you know. But maybe it's American. Maybe it's, I don't know. You guys will correct me in the comments, I'm sure. But it's just so odd to me that we're like raised by two people and that's

it. You know, it's like, we're kind of designed to be raised by many different people. That's right. And, you know, as odd as it felt for my parents to go, like, we can't take care of you. We're leaving you here. Like at the time, my brain was like, you're not good enough. You failed. You're unlovable. Like all those narratives that of time my brain was like, you're not good enough. You failed. You're unlovable. Like all those narratives that of course my psyche was going to write because my psyche, you know, I, I know this is a common thing, but I'll speak for myself is that when our parents fail, that's too much for us to handle. So we have to blame ourselves. So that was a really big part of, you know, the way I developed. But looking back, I'm like, I feel really lucky that I got to be exposed to so many different kinds of parents and caretakers and their flaws and their strengths.

And, you know, I grew up in D.C. and then I grew up in Virginia for a while. So I got to kind of get like, you know, and I think that's part of what makes me a good comedian is I'm not just in this like elitist blue state. What makes me a good comedian is I'm not just in this, like, elitist blue state. I got to see how people live that aren't in metropolitan areas. And see the value of that and learn community and connect with animals. And so I feel really lucky that I got to have a little bit of both growing up. And you went back when you were 15, 16? And then I went back to D.C. when I was 15, 16, yeah.

They were less exhausted? I think so, yeah. Your siblings were probably older. They were in college now. Yeah. There were some scrapes. It was not ideal, but I don't know where

we get off as people expecting our parents to have any idea what they're doing. When you look around and look at your friends that have kids, you're like, they're having kids? Why? You look at your friends and get have kids you're like they're having kids like why like you look at your friends and you're like oh my gosh like my parents none of no one was ready for kids no one my parents said my brother when they were 19 they're like in school they don't know who they are i just feel like for the most part i mean look a lot of really tricky things

happen to me as a kid i have a lot lot of trauma. I'm the whole thing and I do EMDR and I'm in 12-step programs. And I, you know, I, a lot of people I think know about all the things I do to fix what happened. But for the most part, like, I think we have incredibly high expectations for our parents that are just too high. If you study history or you study the timeline of sort of what we know about neurology and psychology it's only in the last 20 years that anyone stood a chance and when we can learn to forgive and accept and have compassion for our parents that's when we can really heal those relationships and heal ourselves for not beating ourselves up or feeling like we're less than or not good enough or not lovable yeah and it really

was like they did the best they could and i don And I truly don't think my parents were like, how are we going to mess up Whitney today? Like they were literally just trying to keep their head above water and given the tools that they had. It sounds like if you had a perfect life, you wouldn't be where you're at. The adversity is what makes you stronger. It's what makes you more creative and what makes you able to break out of your comfort zone and try things probably. And it just is what it is. There's nothing I can do about it. You know, so I think we spend so much time in blame.

And that is just like, to me, I have such an economy of energy brain. I just say, do you have spending any time being mad at someone? I just don't do it. And I love what you said about forgiveness because I remind myself on a daily basis, like we forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness. We deserve. But because we deserve peace. That's it.

It's not about them. No. I'm not saying it's okay what they did. Forgiveness is selfish, you know. It's for your inner peace. It's just taking things out of your backpack. It's just like, why am I carrying this around, you know? Yeah, my mom has enough shame about what happened.

Like, I don't have to be mad on top of it. It's just not. It just doesn't. Guilt her until she dies. It just doesn't work, you know? So if it worked, I'd do it. But it just doesn't. Blame doesn't work. You're not more connected and more loving with each other.

I don't get a check every time I get mad at my mom. It just doesn't pay any bills. Man, I'd be rich. I do, totally. I just don't. I'd be rich, right? See the point, you know? And I, you know, you might know this about

me, but I've learned a lot about myself and about sort of the error in the ideas I have by training animals. And even when I have the best intentions, I make mistakes and I screw up and I, you know, and I just, it makes me have so much more compassion for my parents. I love watching your videos of you with your horses how many horses do you have one I only have one but yeah it seems like there's many because yeah I know I work with many but I I only and um I think there was one a couple weeks ago of you walking away and it's just like your energy she's like look she's gonna walk or he or she yeah yeah yeah and um now if my energy's, she's going to walk or he or she. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now if my energy is bad, she's going to back off. It really, you know, I think I spent so much time. I wasted

my 20s really and nothing's waste, but I really did was unconscious in my 20s because I was trying so hard to control other people and trying so hard. My subconscious brain was working so hard to figure out ways to make myself feel safe and to avoid abandonment and avoid rejection and avoid criticism. And as a result, I just, I realized in equine therapy is really the only thing that helped me understand it besides Al-Anon and 12-step programs and codependence recovery, how desperate energy is repellent. So repellent. And the more badly we want something, when we push something, we push it away.

When you have two desperate people, you can come together and be like, away and together, away and together. That's very codependent, right? Yeah. Two desperate people. That's right. And just sort of like the unhooking

and the only way to win is to not play and to don't just do something, sit there. Because to me, my drug is taking an action. My drug is, and it becomes this sort of, the tighter you pull something, the notch. Because to me, my drug is taking an action. My drug is, and it becomes this sort of the tighter you pull something, the not just gets tighter and tighter. And that really is what I think about when I think of my 20s. It was just me trying so hard to be loved and respected and heard and seen that I was like, it's just, it's annoying. It's repellent is the best way to put it. And, you know, working with prey animals

really helps you understand. It really holds up a mirror to your energy and what you're giving off and what is needy energy. And so my horses really helps me with that. What are you most proud of about yourself that you've done in the last 10 years from your transition to 20s and 30s looking back? That's a really good question.

And I have a couple. Like there's the financial things I'm proud of like owning a home and having a 401k and just sort of. The basic self-care of that. You know, I grew up poor. Like just having health insurance is a big deal. So I think times where I'm like, I didn't get this and I don't have this many things and I don't have this much money. I'm just like, the fact that I have health insurance is a miracle with what I come from. I think we forget our basic gratitude lists.

Our basic, if you had told me 15 years ago that I would have a 401K, I would think you were, you know, on LSD. So I think it's important to also have, you know, gratitude about those little things. I think it's important to also have gratitude about those little things. But for me, I would say it's so simple for me. Handling a conflict with grace is like the biggest achievement I can make at this point. Because achieving things and getting things and winning things and selling shows or making specials, that's all. You know, I know how to do that. specials. That's all, you know, I know how to do that. But to me, the biggest challenges are sometimes just being able to shut my mouth for 20 minutes and listen to someone who's wrong. Wow. That to me is one of the biggest accomplishments. Listen to someone who's

wrong and not try to make them right or not try to fix it and just go like, that sounds hard and not try to change someone's neurology in a conversation. Not coach them or give them a solution. Nope. I'm sorry you feel that way. Not try to be like's neurology in a conversation. Not coach them or give them a solution. No, I'm sorry you feel that way. Not try to be like a guy, essentially, right? How dare you. How dare you imply that I talk about the differences between men and women. That, to me, is what's been the hardest thing for me.

Wow. Is to be able to be in a relationship with someone, working relationship, romantic relationship, and not try to control their behavior, opinions, neurology, and to be able to tolerate the discomfort of others and other people being wrong. Wrong is subjective. So what does that even? So the hardest thing for me is becoming a boss and having employees and just going, you're not doing that the way I would do it. And I'm just going to have to accept it. And I'm not going to spend the next hour obsessing over how I would have done it and micromanaging the person. It's just that kind of taking the hooks out.

Wow. For me has been a big one. Being able to tolerate the discomfort of others, the flaws of others. That's my biggest thing. It's interesting you say that because in the beginning before we started recording, you said about um how you don't how we shouldn't love ourselves in like a cheeky way you were like we shouldn't just be all love yourself for who you are because then you're not going to work to improve yourself is that right yeah and i don't i was driving over here and i was like god i hope i'm a good fit for this show because i am so like you know i see all this self-help stuff

on instagram and i just am like i don't like generalizations my brain just doesn't do well Because I am so like, you know, I see all this self-help stuff on Instagram. And I just am like, I don't like generalizations. My brain just doesn't do well with them. Like black and white, love yourself. Like I see this war on self-deprecation. I see this war on anxiety. That's all I hear about is I have anxiety. I got to get rid of anxiety.

Anxiety is great. It is why our species has proliferated. Anxiety is information. It tells us what situations to get out of. It tells us what people are not healthy for us. It tells us, it's our gut, you know, and I know there's anxiety disorders and I've struggled with it, but it usually is information telling me, do less of this thing, cut this person out of your life, you know, and I think anxiety is important. So is adrenaline. So is cortisol. I think that we're leaving neurology out of a lot of these conversations and we're leaving sort of a evolutionary biology element out of a lot of these conversations. So a lot of the things that made humans so successful, we're now trying to

get rid of. And we have such a big problem with people self-medicating in our country, and I think a lot of it is like, well, we've got to get rid of our anxiety. It's like no human is allowed to be uncomfortable ever. Stressed ever, yeah. Ever. I'm not pro-anxiety, but I do think that anxiety is our gut sometimes telling us information we need to know. Yeah. I think if you look at it as intuition, like if you're starting to feel anxious about a moment or stressed

or like something's off and you feel anxious, okay, you don't need to hold on to that for 30 days or for three years. Like you shouldn't stay in that space

but listen to it and figure out a way to adjust something in your life, right? Yeah, it's just there's, I think that we tend

to pick and choose the pain and discomfort that we want. You know, you don't go to the gym and go like, oh, this hurts,

I'm not doing it. Like you go, no, this You know, you don't go to the gym and go like, oh, this hurts. I'm not doing it. Like you go, no, this is like, I don't know anything about exercising. I'm going to tear the muscle and get stronger, you know. And I think for me, this whole like love yourself, like I wrote a book on loving yourself and overcoming codependence and building self-esteem. But that term to me doesn't honor neurology and how self-esteem or the frontal lobe works. And it also is just like, love yourself if you did something. What are the esteemable actions? You know, if you want high self-esteem, you have to engage in esteemable actions. This idea of like everyone just deserves to love themselves all

the time. Like, I don't know. I mean, some people. I think you should. I think it's like there's something to be accepting yourself for where you're at and how far you've come. Yes. And say, okay, I accept and love where I'm at right now. Yes. But I also know there's more available for me.

I think for me, I need an engine. I need, I... You can play since you've been around all day. Yeah, I just, for me, it's not possible to just go, oh, I love myself out of nowhere. That's just not how nature or nurture works so I think for me I'm really into achievable

goals but I do think there's this sort of generation of people that maybe love themselves too much and haven't like you know so and that's maybe my comedian brain kicking in and I think that there's self acceptance there's self love I think I just and this is just yeah

probably me trying to make a joke about it. But a lot of the people that I see saying like, I'm going to love myself today. I'm like, aren't you the same person that just tweeted something nasty about it? You know, I'm just like, why would you love yourself? So I think that we just need to, I think self-love coupled with self-awareness is important. This radical, I'm perfect the way I am all the time. Look at our environment. Look at our world catching on fire. We might love ourselves too much. I think we build more confidence by the actions that we take. It's by being our word consistently, whether it be in a

relationship or if you say you're going to work out five days a week and actually following through to your commitments. I think that's what makes you feel like, okay, I love myself. I'm like, appreciate myself more for the actions that I took and for being a good human being. Yeah. And I guess for me, what I, and I don't think I'm being clear, like my problem with love yourself is like, I try not to set goals that are so unachievable and vague that I then feel disappointed that I couldn't. So when I go, I'm going to love myself in five minutes, it's just like, that's not fair. I'm setting myself up to fail. I'm trying to change 36 years of neurology and God knows how

many thousands of years of epigenetic imprinting. I'm trying to overcome it because of like an Instagram meme I saw that said, love yourself. You know, it just feels like a shortcut that is not attainable. And I'm just going to be more disappointed in myself when I can't achieve it right away. So I like to take like bite-sized pieces of goals so that I don't, you know, a big thing we do in 12-step programs is you, you know, in order to honor your word, you only set boundaries you can actually follow through with and you don't make threats. Or so if you and I are in a relationship and you're on your phone while we're talking, I'm like, if you ever do that again, I'm gone. And it's like, nope, you cannot threaten something that you can't follow through with.

That's not attainable because then of course you're going to check your phone again. And then I, and then I'm not going to leave because it's that I just said and made an impossible threat that's that I can't fall through and then I'm going to it's going to start to erode my self-esteem because my word means nothing right you know and you can't take me seriously and I can't take me seriously and then I don't respect myself and so I just try to resent everything did you do this in many relationships it sounds like I don't know what you're talking about no I've heard that people do this. Do you struggle in your current relationship because you're engaged, right? I am engaged.

And I'm really lucky. I, you know, by the time we started dating, I had been in a 12-step program for almost eight years. I've been doing EMDR for about four. I've been hearing EMDR is amazing out here. It's a game changer. It's a game changer. Again, like, I'm not a this is the panacea that's going to fix everyone. If you have-

You need lots of tools. Yes. Try different things, yeah. And I had also been in a 12-step program for whatever, five years by the time I got to EMDR, so I think I had the tools to even receive what it was. I'm also a big fan of the placebo effect. It's an effect that works whether it's psychosomatic, whether it's scientific. I don't care.

It works. I was in a place where I could really receive it and I was ready to change. So I think that there's no point in doing it if you're not ready to change or if you don't buy it or whatever. But it was at a time where I was really ready to release my character defects and put down all the weapons that I needed when I was a kid. Wow. Because I was carrying around a lot of armor and a lot of weapons that worked great. A lot of masks. When I was younger, yes.

I had a mask on. I was the, you know. And I was just ready. I was ready to stop fighting. It was like something we say in, you know, Al-Anon is the war is over, you lost. And it's like, you know. Surrender. Yeah, totally.

And we're like running around on a battlefield of a war we lost with our guns and our harpoons and our cannon. And it's like, no, we're not. And the war is meaningless. It's been over for 20 years and you're running around like a maniac. You know? Isn't it interesting? Until we kill ourselves, we can't become something greater. Like we have to kill our old self, kill our ego.

It's such a shame because. Shed off these things, right? Because I think in something that I talk about in codependent recovery stuff, it's like the person that grew up in the home, that's a superhero. I think we tend to look at our character defects as failures in some way or as that weirdo, that psycho, I was crazy. It's like, no, I was perfectly equipped to fight that emotional war. I was perfectly equipped to deal with mental illness and addiction and codependence and rage and whatever.

I just don't need to be the Hulk anymore. No. You know? It's exhausting. It's exhausting and it's just not useful or smart and it's an energy drain. And it's like, it's the funhouse mirror. It's just. It's exhausting and it's just not useful or smart and it's an energy drain. And it's like I'm just, it's the funhouse mirror. It's just my perception. I just need to sort of update the software is what I call it, you know?

Yeah. It's that things have changed and my brain stayed the same. Wow. So it's just really acclimating to my new circumstances. So how is this new relationship that you've been in? I guess you've been in for a few years now. But how is this, your partner now, with all the work you've done, how do you feel like, what's your rating? Well, I think for me-

What's your grade card? If you're like a D in other relationships, are you like a B plus, an A minus, are you like the gold star every day? I took, oh God, I give myself a B minus, I would say. That's a lot of room to improve. A lot of room to improve. But hey, I was a C student, so that's what I mean. It's not so bad. I mean, I also am a perfectionist, so I'm sure my version of a B minus is probably another person's A minus. Yeah, so I feel like check for inflation. I feel grateful. I also took this sort of course on how to kind of change the type of person you're attracted to because I'm sort of obsessed with Harville Hendricks and how we're attracted to people who have the negative qualities of our primary caretakers.

Isn't that crazy? Crazy. So I kept recreating my childhood circumstances. Over and over and dating my dad and dating my mom and dating my siblings. And it was just like incest. At a certain point, you've got to stop dating your dad, guys. And it would just trigger me. And, you know, I had to do a lot of, I even did a lot of sort of like body trauma work.

Because, you know, our bodies react before our brains. Oh, it keeps us sore. Totally. My favorite. So, we are the same person. This is alarming. You're just much funnier than me. my favorite. So we are the same person. This is alarming. So I would, as soon as I, not at nine and a half, but as soon as I would get into a defensive, I was gone. It was like, I would just

go offline and I would just turn into this robot who was just, and so I found myself being attracted to people that I had to take care of, people that were a mess, people that were chaotic. And it was just adrenaline. And you know, and I'm also identified as an addict. So adrenaline turns into dopamine. So dramatic situations are addictive. They are. Dramatic people are addictive.

Drama is addictive. Correct. Correct. Stress. Yes. Drama. And being a victim is addictive. Being in a relationship where you're like, well, he doesn't do this and he doesn't do

this. It makes you feel- It's your responsibility. in a relationship where you're like, well, he doesn't do this and he doesn't do this. It makes you feel. It's your responsibility. It makes you feel interesting. It makes you feel bonded to other people. Complaining is addictive. And I was in all of these really hectic relationships, secret relationships and cheating. And, you know, you always feel like you're in your own action movie and you feel important.

And this, you know, so I found myself on that hamster wheel for a long time. And I was addicted to addicts and sick people and malignant narcissists was my drug for quite a while. You know, so we call them Christmas trees. Like you, you know, when you have not recovered your brain and the type of thing that you're attracted to, you can walk into a room and it's just like the most messed up person will just light up. It's the only person. This is my person. I'm going to rescue them. They're going to make me feel more important. They're going to need me. We call it passion. We call it chemistry. We call it butterflies when that's really just your body saying, stay away from this person.

Anxiety. It's helpful. We go, oh, screw that anxiety. No, screw the person that's making you. Well, don't. But, you know. I mean, it's really a reflection of us, though. Mm-hmm.

Totally. We attract what we are. Vibrate. We just vibrate on a different frequency. So find it. It might be a different level of messed up that we are. Mm-hmm. So it took me a long time to realize, like, chemistry is a red flag.

If I vibe with somebody, turn around, get in your car, and just leave the party. But you should still vibe with the person you're with in a different way. You should get along. But if it's like, something else is going on. Right. For me personally. Right, right, right. You know, I found that if you, like, enmesh with someone right away and you're like, we spent five days together straight, like, that is, for me, addictive.

And I kept getting into these addictive, entrenched things where you fall in love before you know the person, you know. And so it took me a long time, you know, because I kept being in these relationships with unrecovered codependents, unrecovered addicts, unrecovered narcissists, and as if that's something you can really recover from. And my brain labeled it as chemistry, passion, soulmate, all these sort of things that we tend to romanticize. And it took me understanding neurology to really realize I was just kind of a puppet of this dopamine-oxytocin cycle. Wow. So that was really helpful for me. Learning neurology, I think, is the biggest game changer. And when you said, like, what are you proud of? I think for me, that's the biggest one, to be able to just honor neurology and not make everything so romantic or personal or cinematic. It's like, oh, that was just oxytocin. Right. They're not

your soulmate. That's all that was. It's okay. You know? So for me, it was really, I had to write lists and I wrote about it in my book, like lists of, you know, what I wanted, what was, would be nice. It was like a list my therapist made me do. It was like- Dream list. Requirements with someone, which is like requirements, like not budget. Not negotiable. Not negotiable. My bottom lines. This is what I must have. This would be nice and red flags.

Right. And the red flags were like not negotiable. Yeah. You know, so that I really had to figure out. They can't be an addict. They can't be whatever it is, yeah. Correct. Married, you know, on my space.

Things like that. They can't be married right now. Hard and fast rules you know because i think that the problem with chemistry clouds are front of lobe you know dopamine crowds are judgment you know clouds are judgment and so for me i had to get really self-aware about my judgment yes no list so it's clear yeah i had to really treat it like a business proposal and for as non-romantic as that sounds. Because I found that my relationships were draining me

and depleting me instead of energizing me. And that's a bottom line for me. No stripper poles. No stripper poles. No thank you. I'm good. My therapist said something to me that was really interesting. She basically went,

your relationship needs to be boring. And I was like, no way. What do you mean? They have to be exciting and this. You're going to bring the excitement. It totally, she was like. You've got action and energy. What she made me realize is what's boring to you is really just serenity.

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And you need to have peace when you go home. That's right. Your you need to have peace when you go home. That's right. Your home should be a sanctuary. And I love that Flaubert quote, which is like, you know, isn't it be boring in your personal life so you can be brave and violent in your professional life and take risks? And a lot of the most successful people, at least in my field, are the ones that are like have been married for 35 years.

You know, Will Ferrell and Steve Carell and all these guys where they're not outdated. It's a time suck. It's a full-time job. It's so much energy. And I realized I was chasing people whose love I couldn't get, that I could never get, because of this addiction to, I think, rejection and abandonment and this addiction to auditioning for approval. So I would be like— Auditioning for approval, as you said?

I'd be magnetically attracted to people whose approval I could like never get like your dad, like my dad or a malignant narcissist who just can't, you know, or I would need too much from somebody who couldn't give, you know, I was just really constantly in those relationships. And I was in relationships where I would do 80, they would do 20. Cause to me, like my workaholism, like that was just my comfort zone. Make it work, yeah. And so I really, it took me a long time to get out of that. So to answer your question, it's kind of a triumph, really.

A victorious triumph that I'm in a relationship that's healthy and peaceful. And, you know, he's just useful and calls me out on my shit and sets boundaries. That's good. He stands up for himself. Yeah. He's not just letting you me out on my shit and sets boundaries. That's good. He stands up for himself. Yeah. He's not just letting you walk all over him. No. And I can be authentic with him.

And, you know, it's really like he has the tools to have these conversations, which is really helpful. You know, I think you have to date someone that has a similar toolbox than you. It's emotional intelligence, yeah. Or else what are you doing? And if he doesn't, it's like he's able to say, express that he's not and so am I. You know, and we're really, you know, and I also, I, I, this was something that I think was really helpful in this relationship. I didn't throw all my crap at him right away. I used to think that my trauma was the only thing that was interesting about me. And your heart is interesting.

Really? Absolutely. Thank you. Of course. But I didn't sort of give it all at once. You know, it started long distance, which I think was really helpful for an addictive brain because it was able to pace. You can't spend 24-7 for two weeks with them. It's not sustainable. Success over like every little detail. No. Don't do it. I'm in long distance right now, and actually it's amazing because I miss her. And I'm like, God, I wish she was here. But I'm also like,

wait, let's wait. Let's give her more time. Let's like really enjoy the process. Like we're communicating on the phone. We're not obsessing over certain things. She's independent. I'm independent. We're building like a foundation. I feel really. It's really, I mean, this is just such a basic thing and we didn't i didn't learn basic things like this when i was a kid get to know someone don't just fall in love don't just get to know it's very simple you know i mean this is um you know for me i was just so sloppy about it and i think for me again like i my biggest fear in life is being boring, believe it or not. And so my thing was like, here's all my trauma, and here's all the terrible things that happened to me, and here's my, you know, all my, and it just. How interesting and complex I am. It gives you this false sense of emotional progress with the other person, this false sense of intimacy that's just not real, and you're in this house of cards.

So for me, it was really about kind of doling out my personal information with him. I mean, in a way that was organic, healthy. Yeah, it was organic. And it wasn't like, I'm going to show all my victim. So then now you're attracted to a victim and now we're in this unhealthy thing, you know? So it was really important to me to sort of curate and still be authentic, but kind of just curate and be boundaried about what I shared with him when, because I was trauma bonding with people and wasting six months at a time. What's the thing you love about him the most? Oh, wow. Different type of podcast. I love this. This is, these are questions that nobody ever asks me. I love it. The thing that I love about him the most is, you know, and I think this is so obvious maybe,

he really is endeared by a lot of my, I don't like when people call themselves crazy, and I try not to do it to myself. I'm really careful about it. Be careful about your words. So careful. Become what you say. My idiosyncrasies. He's entertained.

Quirking. Yeah, yeah. And he understands, you know, recovery, and he's very like, you know, he's like, I'm going to stay in my lane. He doesn't try to control me. He doesn't try to fix me. That's amazing. My thing is I have enough notes for myself. I don't need more notes. I want to hear your feedback, and I want to improve.

But he's not, you know, he's entertained by it, which I think is important. You need someone that is kind of your fan and isn't disappointed when you do something. He doesn't take personally my behavior. How about that? He doesn't. It's not like everything I do is effective. Yeah, if I don't text him back, he's just like, what happened? He's not like, where have you been?

He's just very like, did you lose your phone again? I mean, he's just like kind of. Not a secure jealous. No, he's just exactly. He's very just kind of endeared lose your phone again? I mean, he's just like kind of. Not a secure jealous. No, he's just exactly. He's very just kind of endeared by, you know, I have five. Every day I come home with a new dog or a pig or a horse. Like he's a very patient man. He's a very patient man.

And I need that. I interviewed a friend of mine named Devon Franklin. That's familiar. He's produced different movies, written books. I don't know if I have one of his books up here. His wife's Megan Good. Is that her name? Megan Good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's like a pastor, a speaker. Oh, cool. And I said, he wrote a book called The Wait, where he waited to have sex with his wife until they were married, right? And he talks about relationships. And I said, and I went through a breakup

at the end of last year, and I interviewed him afterwards, and I go, when do you know you found the right partner? Maybe not like your soulmate, but like the one who can be the one. Yeah. And he, without hesitation, said, when you feel at peace.

Yeah. I never thought about that before. So simple. Well, you just mentioned this, how it's like peace at home, so you can be chaotic and take risk in the world. I can't walk into my house and get, like, I mean, I can say to him, I mean, I feel really lucky that I can go, I don't have a lot to give this week. Wow.

I can say that. I don't have a lot to give today. You know, you need someone who is able to get their internal needs met without you. Have their own friendships. Have their own life. Get their own, derive their own value from their job or their work or family or whatever, you know? And he also, I think for me, you're never going to find the perfect, that's not a thing. It's like, are you with someone who's willing to course correct? Are you willing to be with someone, are you with someone who's willing to grow for you if that's

what you need? So for me, there was like, you know, a couple of things like when we met, you know, I was like, this doesn't work for me. Is that something you're willing to change or not? And if you're not, I just got to go. We're not going to, you know, it's figuring out what your bottom lines are and seeing how flexible the other person is. So this is the first time I entered a relationship like as a business deal. Wow. You know, like, okay, here are the things I need.

Here are the things that don't work. Are you willing to change those? If not, I got to go. No love that don't work. Are you willing to change those? If not, I got to go. No love lost. How many things did he have to change? I'm talking about 20 things.

I'd be like, dang, this guy's... I had to change some things too and they made me better. He had some non-negotiables. He was like, all right, you're...

We made each other better, I think, you know? And there's some things I'm like, that's not going to change. I don't have time to change that. Yeah, yeah.

This is who I am. I just, this, I don't hate, I don't, you know, so it's really like a, it's a negotiation. It's emotional negotiation. It's like what's tolerable. But I think to me the thing that is the most valuable is that we can be in the same space and not be talking or touching each other. You know, that to me is a big deal because I used to think that intimacy was about proximity. Always. Always.

Like silence. My horse taught me that. You can coexist with somebody and not be so close that you're going to put each other in danger all the time. There's this thing I love that we say in program is that if you are holding a handful of sand, if you hold it like this, you can hold it forever. But if you hold it like this, you're going to lose it. You know, so the goal is to always hold it like this. Anything. It can leave in a once. That's it. I love you. Keep going. You know, is our always hold it like this. Anything. It can leave when it wants. That's it. I love you. Keep going, is our thing. I love you. Keep going. Go do your other thing. Go have your, do that. Because this is just, you never want to be here. You want to be here. So that's not.

I was thinking about being here, like moving up together, side by side. Well, that's right, right? This is the other thing. Forward or up, yeah. People have to, I mean, I didn't learn this as a kid. This is your. They teach this in, we like, maybe this is so obvious, but something that, you know, someone explained to me, this neurologist, she was like, if two trains are going like this, they can go forever. But as soon as you're here, you crash. Yeah. And you can crash in relationships.

You're just so him and I can coexist in the same room. I can be on my phone. He can be reading a book. We're not, what are you doing? It's not him having a life is not a rejection. And me having a life and ambitions is not a rejection to him personally. And I'd only been in relationships where me going on a trip, he has to come. And if you're going, I have to come with you. This sort of interdependence, not codependence, was something that took me a really long time to learn.

Who was more influential for you growing up, mom or dad? God, that's such a good question. God damn it. You're asking such good questions. I think it was probably my dad. I don't know. I don't know. Probably know probably my my in influential in different ways sure you know um but yeah maybe my dad what was the biggest lesson he taught you uh whether through actually him saying a lesson or just example or what he didn't do yeah um that you know he said something to me that i love that i i I didn't understand how good his advice was until he passed. Like I didn't, I didn't, you know, cause I, I had this narrative that I had a crappy dad, I had a crappy mom and that's all we focus on, you know? And then you do

a little work on yourself and you're like, okay, there were some major gems in there. He used to always say, ask other people questions. They just want to talk about themselves. And I never, it took me so long to take that advice because I thought when you meet someone, you have to entertain them and you have to impress them. And you have to show them all the things that you know. It didn't occur to me like, no, just ask the person about themselves. That's how you connect with somebody. Like I thought every time I met someone, I had to perform for them, you know, and I just thought that that was the arrangement. And it took me a long time to understand that the easiest way to connect with someone is to just ask them questions about themselves. I know that sounds so obvious,

but it's such a life hack. And it's such a great way to me now in business to find out who I'm dealing with because I like to decide who somebody is and then when they don't match how I've cast them, I get confused. I'm not interested in who you are. I'm interested in who I think you are and then you disappointing me. Like it's just like the most backwards,

I've made an assumption about you and then you didn't match my assumption instead of actually just doing the field work and finding out who somebody is and if it's a good match. That was really helpful for me. And he also gave me some really good advice where he said, be careful with how independent you come off because it doesn't occur to other people to help you or give you any kind of emotional support. Because what I would do is I'm a strong woman. I'm independent. I'm fine. And da, da, da. And they're like, why isn't anyone helping me? Like, why are you doing everything alone? It's like, it would never occur to anyone.

So just asking for help was a really big deal for me for a really long time. Just saying, can I get some help with this? And it not being a shamey, gross, I owe you, you owe me, now I'm keeping score. Because in my household, asking for help or involving an adult in a problem came with guilt or shame or you're needy or you're, you know, something. There was just too much of an emotional aftermath. You're not good enough to do it on your own or smart enough or whatever. Totally. Wow. Totally. So just little things like that, that probably, but he also, my dad was gone a lot, you know, and I definitely have been defined by the absence of a dad when I was a kid, you know,

and it took me a really long time to not decide all men were that way or to not let it frame the way that I saw the world. How did the relationship end for you when he passed? With my dad? Oh, it was. Were you in a good place,? With my dad? Oh, it was... Were you in a good place, do you feel like? No, not really. I mean, you know, I don't, you know, I think that's, that death is such a defining part. You know, it's interesting because, and I don't know if anyone wants to hear about death, but all the things that I'd been working on for so long kind of click into place when a death happens. Working so hard

on boundaries, working so hard on saying no, working so hard at reducing the amount of things on my plate, working so hard to not do things out of obligation. I've spent so much time doing that. And as soon as I lost my dad, it was like, I'm not doing that. Nope, I'm not going on a hike with that person. It just, everything becomes so clear what's important and what's not. So it's interesting. It's sad that it needs something like that to happen for us to course correct our life. Or just me. It could be me and what I needed, you know? And, you know, I think that, and I don't know how that tool is helpful. Don't kill your dad to emotionally make the progress you need. But, you know, it was something that was a little

bit like, you know, his passing kind of was just a really big part of, you know, things, you know, clicking into place. And in a weird way, I think it's the gift he would have wanted to give me in a weird way. And he had a stroke. Both my parents had strokes, which is a big part of why I got so into neurology and had to understand it really quick because I was all of a sudden in ERs looking at brain scans and people talking about the prefrontal cortex. And I'm like, I have no idea what that means and finding out what part of the brain, you know, affects what. And so I think that like ultimately he gave me this incredible gift that as a side effect of something kind of tragic. Wow. When did he pass? About a year and a half ago.

Oh, wow. Yeah, almost two years ago. And it was interesting because you really find out who the people are around you when someone in your life passes because grief makes you boring and makes you unable to give anything. Wow. And you really find out the kind of people that can show up and tolerate you grieving really calls out your circle because it's you realize like the fun one the entertaining one

or the like are you still my friend if I'm just staring at the wall like a zombie crying for six days like am I still someone that you want to be friend you know be around so that was every the tectonic plates really shift in your in your life when something like that happens. And I had just started dating the person I'm with and the way he handled it, I think is really what made me understand. What great partnership is. What he handled everything. Like he just went into handle it mode. And I was like, okay. So I feel grateful that I think it's like the very, a lot of the damage that my dad, I feel like I got from him, him passing at the time that I had started dating, Miles gave Miles the opportunity to step up and show me who he was.

It was kind of kismet. It was sort of this weird divine thing where I was able to sort of him passing is how Miles was able to step up. I was able to kind of undo passing is how Miles was able to step up. Passing the torch. I was able to kind of undo the cycle kind of thing through it. It was pretty surreal. Do you feel like you got to say everything you wanted to say to him? No. That's okay.

You felt peace about everything or you wish you would have? I'm so not this person, but I'm going to be this person. I did do ayahuasca a couple months after he passed, like six months, because the grief was just, I didn't know what to do with it. Strong, yeah. Yeah. And I think that because I'm such a keep moving to get out of your feelings anyway, I really didn't want to run from it. And for the grief to manifest in other ways, you know, I didn't want that energy to come out and like the workaholism or the codependence or whatever. And I actually think what happened for me with ayahuasca and why I think it's a helpful tool is I didn't hallucinate on ayahuasca. I kind of realized that I was hallucinating every day.

And on ayahuasca, I kind of saw things clearly. And I was able to take on a lot of the things that I thought were weaknesses for my dad as strength. And I was allowed to sort of accept the things in me that I got from him and alchemize them into positives. You know, it's like he was always working and too much. And I was just trying to find ways to use what I thought were weaknesses of his and make them strengths and accept the parts of him that were in me. You know, I don't want to be like my dad. I don't want to be like my mom. That's all we say. Maybe they had good things about them. Maybe we're just seeing them wrong.

Or maybe we're just so wrapped up in our own judgment and blame that we can't see it. You know, my dad had a very skeptical take on people. He always called everyone liars, thieves, and worms is what he would say. And it's so negative. But I don't know. I, I, I found myself overcompensating the pendulum swinging too hard and trusting too much and being going all in, all in trusting everybody. Yeah, sure. Manage my money. Sure. I'll come stay at my house. Sure. And I just, I didn't have enough of that sort of what I call like healthy skepticism and healthy

boundaries and a healthy sense of like seeing red flags, you know? So I kind of, it helped me stop like divorcing myself from this story that my parents were so messed up and I want to be totally different than them. Do you feel like you do things to make your dad proud? Oh my God. Still? Oh God. You're so good at this. I, i when my dad passed i had somewhat of an existential crisis because i realized so much of my engine was to try to impress him just him when he passed

when he i think more my dad my mom not so much my mom was more like physical stuff like body appearance stuff that i've had to sort of work through. You got a great combo. It's a whole other thing. Yeah, real doozy. Real one-two. They were made for each other. You know, and I realized when my dad passed, I did have felt like I was sort of in a free fall

because I was like, do I even want to do comedy? Like the person that I was trying to impress is gone. Like I don't even know why I'm doing any of this. Wow. And I canceled a bunch of projects I was doing. I checked out of a lot of things. I had to sort of completely revamp my priorities and figure out what I wanted. What's the priorities now? The priorities now are, you know, for me, I, and this probably sounds gross, but I'm big on making money because it is freedom. And I didn't have

that growing up. So I do try to make decisions based on it being lucrative enough to be able to help a family member out if they have an issue. You know, my family, a lot of my family members don't have health insurance and they didn't go to college, you know, so for me, it's, I take a lot of pride in being able to earn so that I can help people. You know, that just, I don't have cars and, like, that's not my thing. And shoes and clearly clothes is not my thing. I like to be able to, you know, give people the ability to sleep at night because they're not stressing out about money, you know. So I do make a lot of decisions based on earning.

You're not making millions at the comedy store every week? I really know that. $15. The night you saw me, I made $15. So I work for free a lot because stand-up is like bodybuilding. You're in the gym for a year making nothing, and then you get your special or whatever. So I definitely, once my dad died, I got a little more mercenary about the way that I spent my time because I worked for free for so long and continued to until my dad passed. And then just really high quality, like, is this going to

move the needle or not? You know? And after that, the first thing I did was with, was Roseanne, which did not end as planned. Isn't that crazy? It was so big. Yeah. Like the launch and the show was so big and then one tweet and the show was so big. And then one tweet ruins it all. I don't think it was one. It was other stuff. It seemed like one tweet was what? Ruined thousands of people? Ostensibly, yes, exactly.

It was one, the tweet that broke the camel's back. But there was definitely more before that I hadn't seen. And that was my mistake. I didn't follow her before. And, you know, like my dad said, ask people questions. I didn't ask enough questions and I didn't do enough research and, you know, but I did, you know, at the time it was like, you know, we're going to reach a bunch of people that we wouldn't reach normally. And I think that Hollywood, we forget we're in this echo chamber and we are talking to such a small number of people and this was an opportunity to talk to more people, you know. So I think that since my dad passed, I've just tried to such a small number of people. And this was an opportunity to talk to more people. You know, so I think that since my dad passed,

I've just tried to be a little more big picture in the things that I take. I don't take jobs anymore to impress people. I don't take jobs anymore because there's a celebrity involved who might, this person might think is impressive. Like, I don't have those sticky motives anymore. It's like, do I want to do it or not?

And the answer is usually no. Like, am I going to be proud of this? Am I going to get paid of this am i going to get paid in pride is a big thing for me now that my dad has passed because he used and pride is the double that's right you know am i proud of it am i paid by it that's good that's sort of the way that i i live now because it used to be like oh like whatever i'm trying to think of a celebrity so and so julie roberts is a producer on this I'll be able to tell my dad that I'm working with Julia Roberts. You know.

He'll love me more. Totally. It used to be that stuff, you know. And, it's kind of not like that anymore. It's like, would I do it for free?

Right. Because you love it. But I wouldn't. But I want to make a lot of money. I don't, and it's, and it's, I just,

I know that it's gauche to say that, but I think it's important to know your value and to know your worth. I think financial freedom is a powerful thing. Having resources, you can serve humanity in a bigger way. You can create the

products you want, you can create the life you want, you can help the people around you. So I don't think it's wrong if you know yourself. But you're not buying it to freaking buy gaudy stuff and flashy. This shirt was $45. How dare you? It's $45 as well. We're the same person.

That is a very fancy shirt. It's just a blank t-shirt. I don't know. In LA, those are like, it's a big deal. It's like what they call a basic tee, I think. Basic tee. $45. It's not a V, so we're good.

I like Vs. You like a V. I feel like you're a deep V guy. Not a deep V. Just like a simple V. In Turkey, you're going to have those Vs out. I'm glad to hear the nipples out. I mean, I do live in West Hollywood

there's lots of deep V's but just like a little just a little classic yeah a little tiny V slight suggestion of a V just like a little have that clavicle peeking out

a little flirting oh hey oh uh oh oh man so pride and pain it's like my bar is higher and lower you know

and the bar is changing. So for me, it's like, you know, 10 years ago, five years ago, I'd be like, I'm not going to do a casino. Like, that's selling out. I don't have that anymore. It used to be like I was trying to impress people. I was so worried about, like, if I post this ad on Instagram of me performing at a casino, what are comics going to think? Like, I just don't have that anymore. I don't have the same kind of shame around my choices. It's just, I get to be a little more selfish in a good way. I like it. A good kind of self. How do you deal with, I remember I talked

to Steve Aoki when I had him on and I was like, what's one of your biggest fears or concerns? Something like that question. He said, being irrelevant. And I think I see a lot of people in Hollywood who like, they get the special and then like next year, and then they don't get picked up again for the next season. So they're hot. And then it's just, they're chasing to be hot again. There's so much excitement and expectation or hope that it's going to work out. Mm-hmm. How do you face that?

Because you had Two Broke Girls, huge hit. You had your own show, which was like two or three seasons, I think, right? So maybe it didn't last as long as the show you were creating. How do you deal with that just aspect of Hollywood, your career of hot, maybe not as hot, and then really hot, and then okay, slow? Yeah, the vicissitudes of the in and out. How do you deal with that emotionally?

Yeah. And maybe you're better now because you're choosing things. You don't really care what's working in that way. I guess to me, I think you put something out when it's good, and that's how you stay relevant. No, it's like I agree with Steve, and I feel that a lot too, but I also know feelings aren't facts, and I know what feelings are valid and which aren't.

So it's like to just put stuff out to stay in the zeitgeist is, I just personally don't know a lot of comics. It takes a year to put a good special together. In order to make good art, you have to have a life, and you have to make mistakes, and you have to go out in the world. You know, so I found that when I was doing, you know, three shows and there, you know, it was this whole thing. And everyone thought of me as this big success. It was, I was in a writer's room all day and I wasn't having a life.

And in order for art to imitate life, you have to have a life. And I didn't have one. And so I was limited in how good of an artist I could be. have a life and I didn't have one. And so I was limited in how good of an artist I could be. So now I believe you, you know, you make something and you go off and you live more and you grow and then you come back and make something else. And hopefully your work is actually evolving. If I just only kept putting things out, I'd be putting the same thing out. How could I improve? So I just am a big fan of going away, growing, restoring, living, coming back, and elevating. You know, that's just my process. And, you know, and I also do lots of different things. So, you know,

I'll go do a special and then I'll do a show and then I'll do a book. And then, you know, I'm also A robot. I made a robot. I just, I don't care if people are interested in me. I just want to be interested, you know? In what you're doing. Because otherwise it's not going to be good. This is what I like. I feel like we're siblings or something because. Past life twins or something. I do a lot of things where my peers are like, why are you doing that? Yeah. Like I wrote a book a year and a half ago about masculine vulnerability. Great. It's called The Mask of Masculinity. Love it.

And everyone was like, this is the worst business decision. Like you should do something else based on your last book and keep building upon it. And I was just like, this is what's going to be interesting to me. Yeah. And what I feel like is needed right now in the world. Yeah. That I'm proud of. Yeah.

You work so hard. Yeah. And you're not allowed to do, like, I'm being on like, this one's for me and that one's for you. And this, you know, this, I do that with jokes sometimes. It's like, there's a couple jokes where I'm like. No one laughs. I know that's never, this one's just for me. I like this one, you know.

This is like a, you know, it gets like 70% of the reaction of the other ones. But like, I like it, you know. I just, I think that we're so afraid of being boring that we're boring ourselves. You know, it's, I just, I don't know how to put out authentic work if it's, the engine is just to keep putting out work. Who's benefiting from that? I mean, there's just so much to choose from now. And making something for the sake of making it, I'm always big on why. What's the why on this?

Why am I going to give this thing a year of my life or whatever? And, you know, like making the movie, for example, that was just an experiment. We made it in 15 days for not even a million dollars. Oh, it was like, I mean, you can, there's the coverage. It's like, you know, it was very, I'm just editing and everything else. Yeah, totally figuring out in post and fixing it in post. And, you know, doing that weird little, I wanted to learn about neurology and I wanted to make a movie about, I loved it. I just was like, I wanted to make the thingy, and I wanted to make a movie about it. That's great. I loved it. I just was like, I wanted to make the thing that I wish it had existed, and no one else was going to make a movie. That's what I always say. I'm creating what I would want.

I want a movie about neurology that I wish when I was 23, there was someone explaining to me oxytocin and dopamine, and when you're in a relationship for a certain amount of time, that you start producing less oxytocin and it's not personal and how cortisol works and how, you know, organizing things reduces cortisol. That's why I'm so obsessed with how everything, you know, I just, for me, it would have, I would have saved so much time with taking things personally and over-pathologizing myself, you know, and other people. And I've been like, he's not mad. That's just cortisol. I'm going to give him a couple of days it to wear off, and then we'll talk about it.

You know, I guess I just wanted that to exist. And then as far as the book, like, this one, I mean, couldn't have been. It came out the day of the Vegas shooting. So there was some interesting cosmic thing where it was, you know, the universe is going, we're making sure you're doing this for you and for the right reasons. Because glory isn't always going to be the reward. And then I think when something comes out based on the success of it, then you decide if it was worth it.

That's so unhealthy to me. It should be like it's successful because I'm proud of the work I created. If one person reads it or a million people buy it, right? Yes. The reaction is the only thing that matters anymore. And I found that I was chasing a reaction, chasing a reception, and chasing a feedback. And an applause. And an applause.

That's exactly right. And so for me, I just want to be able to look back and be proud of the choices that I made instead of like I was just like on a hamster wheel trying to stay in people's timelines. Right. You know, and some of the people's career that I respect the most, they, you can, it's like when we're talking about relationships, you want to miss someone a little bit. You do. You know, I think that right now we're in such like fatigue of people, you know, I just, I think that I also experienced being ubiquitous and having a.

You were everywhere. And it didn't go great, you know, I think I I also experienced being ubiquitous and having a – You were everywhere. And it didn't go great. You know, I think I'm good. Financially, maybe it went okay. It went great. But I just – I'm good in small doses. I also know that about myself. Because you had what?

You had like a – you were a comedy tour. You had the creator of Two Broke Girls. You had your own show, Whitney. Yeah, I just was like – You had like a bunch of stuff happening at once. Yeah, and I just think that i don't know i think that artists um being ubiquitous is you don't want to over what's your where you're welcome what's your thoughts on someone like a steve harvey or kevin hart who's all the ways everywhere all the time those were such weird people to pair together

what comedians wait steve harvey and kevin hart they're Both comedians. Wait. Right? Steve Harvey and Kevin Hart. They're both comedians, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, Kevin Hart, I think that he has, what he has done is amazing and he does it so brilliantly because, I mean,

it's like he has, what, a movie come out a year and then... And a comedy special a year. Yeah, but I'm not sick of him. I don't know why. I think he's just so endearing and he's so charismatic

and maybe he, you know, is the exception to the rule. But I don't feel like a fatigue on Kevin. You know? Because he's real and he's authentic. He's not forcing him maybe. Yeah. I don't know why. I don't feel that.

I'm not sure why. I think it was Steve Harvey because he's got like multiple shows at once. Yeah. Oh, God. Does he? Yeah. He's got like Family Feud. He's got a Steve Harvey show.

I'm behind on Steve Harvey. I don't know why. He had the kids show, like the kids celebrity show. America's Got Talent for Kids or whatever. Right, right, right, right. He had like three or four shows at once. Yeah. A radio show.

Yeah, that's right. You're right, you're right. Okay, okay, that's fair. But you know, I just can't think that way. I just, in desperation to be relevant, I don't know. That feels like chasing. That just feels like a motive that's, you know, to me I just try to be relevant. I don't know. That feels like chasing. That just feels like a motive that's, you know, to me, I just try to be authentic and if I can and honest with myself and to just try to

like keep up with everybody, which is what I used to do, frankly. I just didn't, it didn't yield the kind of work that I really felt like I could be proud of. Like I'd rather just be mindful about it, figure out what I want to put out in the world and put it out when it's ready. What's your biggest fear now then? I mean, being irrelevant is up there. I just know it's an irrational fear, you know, because for me, the fear of being irrelevant triggers codependency, rushed culture. Needing something, yeah. Get it out now instead of when it's right, this chasing.

And then it doesn't get the reception you want, and then you feel worse. And that, you know, so my biggest fear now, you know, being boring is one that I struggle with. That's a big one. Podcasts are helping me with that because I'm just like, is this interesting to anyone? You've got to, I mean, you said the answer because I was always very insecure growing up because I didn't think I was interesting enough to people. And I would say stupid stuff that people would be like, whatever. It happened two or three times and it stuck in my mind that, like, people didn't want me around.

Yeah. Because I was just stupid or ignorant or whatever it was. Just youngest kid. Yeah. And I, in high school and in college, I really shifted to just be like, I'm going to ask amazing questions and just listen. I'm not going to try to say anything. I'm going to do the opposite. And someone told me later, they were like, you do a really good job of asking and listening.

You're amazing. Thank you. And you said the most interesting person is always the most interesting person. Just what you said. And I think it's something why the podcast does well because I just want to ask questions. But you also ask questions that nobody else asks. And you're very thoughtful and mindful about it. And you also ask it and then let the person answer.

There's a lot of people that go like, what scares you the most? Because what scares me the most? And you're like, you know what I mean? You really wait for the answer. It's a practice, though. It's actually jarring because I keep waiting for you to change the subject. I'm like, oh, he's really, I really have to answer this. It's actually kind of jarring.

It's not a comedy podcast where everyone's interrupting each other. No. Why not, baby? I'm like, is someone going to do a bit or prank me? You know, you're really, you land, you stick the landing. You know, and it's a lot. It's uncomfortable sometimes. You really are just, silence is your tool of success.

Like you ask the question and you wait for the answer, which is unbelievably. It's called an interview for a reason. I know, but it's jarring because I'm usually good at squirming out of things and not with you. But I think that that's a skill that I'm so happy for all your listeners because if people just did that on dates, it would save them five years of bad, toxic relationships if you actually just asked a question and listened to their answer, which is the advice my dad gave me that seems so simple. And not try to be interesting or try to tell the joke all the time.

Have your reaction, the joke come in, you know, like just to really listen and let people reveal themselves. And then once they do. People want to be heard and seen. People always tell me like, gosh, I don't even know what he said to me, but I talked to him for 20 minutes and he's just like the most coolest guy. Yeah. He's just such a nice guy. I don't even know what he said, but I want to help him. And I spent so much time trying to get love indiscriminately from people whose love I had no business engaging with.

You know, I spent so much time going like, I don't even know if you're the kind of quality of person I should be with, but I'm going to get your love regardless. And it was always like how to beguile people, how to charm people, how to get them to like you. And then you're stuck in this relationship with someone. And you're like, oh, God, why did I work so hard to get your approval? You're a nightmare. You know, so for me, I'm learning a lot from you because I don't do this enough in my hiring decisions. I don't get to know people enough in my hiring decisions. Hire slow. Fire fat.

And I get to know their character defects and their song and dance. It's not easy. And I don't really ask mindful questions to find out what their character is. It's so hard as a business owner as well when you need to fill a spot because you're doing too much of the work you don't want to do or you're suffering in a situation. You want to put someone there quickly.

Yeah. But that's where you should wait. And I don't ask enough smart questions and listen to the answer. You should let other people interview them first on your team. Oh, that's good. I just brought on a new assistant.

My other assistant had been with me for six years and she's transitioning to start a family. And so I had my assistant interview people first. They need to meet your requirements. Then when she found a few people that she liked, they go to my COO. He interviews them, and you meet his standard. Wow.

Am I going to like this person? Are they going to fit into our culture? What's the biggest thing you look for in somebody? For me, it's attitude. I can't stand people that make excuses or don't have the willingness to figure it out. You know what I mean? You can make mistakes. You just have to admit you made one. If you can't admit you made it, then we're in insanity. You can make a mistake a day if you want. A huge mistake a day.

Just don't do the same one over and over. Yeah, but if you did. Correct. Yeah, my bar is really low. What's wrong with that? No, but if you can't admit I was wrong, it's like that's my biggest sort of bottom line and red flag with you all. Yeah, exactly. So attitude, effort.

For me, I was never the best athlete, but I was always the MVP because of my effort. Huh. And my willingness to have, like, clear vision. And I was willing to get up early, work out. You know, I never drank my whole life. Really? Never had a sip of alcohol in high school, college. I was just like, I need a superpower.

Yeah. And it's got to be effort and my mindset. Love it. So effort, attitude, the desire and willingness to continue to learn. Someone who doesn't need to hold their hand. But how would someone be able to construe that to you in an interview? I would tell them this. Oh, got it.

I would say, this is what I'm looking for. Yeah. You know, I need effort. I need an attitude. So I would ask them questions like, what would you say? I don't know. I would just think of a question about, you know, if you made a big mistake and I got upset, how would you react? Yeah.

Or you knew you messed up, how would you respond? Just kind of feel it out. If they're like, well. Interesting. They're like, I would own it. I would take responsibility. And I would want to see how I could get better. I would want coaching.

Yeah. Cool. I set traps. You set traps. That's healthy. I do. And it's the same thing I learned in relationships. And this probably sounds like manipulation. You set traps in relationships. You have to sometimes, you know. You's healthy. I do. And it's the same thing I've learned in relationships. And this probably sounds manipulative.

You have to sometimes, you know. You've got to test people. I think, you know, your listeners might think that I'm off the grid on this. But I go like, what was it like at your last job? Yeah. And if they say negative things about their boss, I can't hire you. The same way if you're dating someone and you say, how did your last relationship end? And they say, well, she's crazy. It was like, I already know that you. The same way if you're dating someone and you say, how did your last relationship end? And they say, well, she's crazy or he was, it was like, I already know that you blame people.

And I already know that you, you know, the way you do anything is the way you do everything. And it's important to like when people reveal themselves to just. I think when you take ownership for everything in your life and responsibility, that's when you're like, okay, I can trust this person. Maybe they're going to mess up. Maybe they're going to make mistakes. But they're going to own stuff and Maybe they're going to make mistakes. But they're going to own stuff, and they're willing to grow. Yeah, and I think we have to really remember that we are wired to have a common enemy. It's something we bond over.

And I think it's really important to know how we're wired and to just honor that. It's the same way, you know, people with dog breeds, they want to say, like, this dog was bred for this, but we can't. And then people go, breed doesn't matter. It all matters. You know, nature and nurture both matter. say like this dog was bred for this but we can't and then people go breed doesn't matter it all matters you know nature and nurture both matter and i think it's important we just have to understand part of our nature sometimes and when you're dating someone new and you both get to be mad at the person's ex we're bonding over something because that's what we're wired to do negative

right but then you go zoom out and it's like oh no that's a red flag it's not healthy's not healthy. I want to ask you a couple of final questions, but I want to make sure people check out your book. I'm fine. And otherwise you guys can go get this book right now, since it was such a big hit the day it dropped. So wild, really funny stuff, but powerful about anxiety, overcoming all the challenges you've gone through. It's about addiction. It's about codependence. It's about eating disorders. It's about freezing your eggs. It's about, you know, sort of a lot of sexual assault. It's about sort of everything we all have dealt with.

And it was interesting because to come out the day of a tragedy, at least to go like, you're going to have to wait two weeks to promote it. And we have to relaunch it. Like all of so much of the book is about not trying to control. But you're drowning. What you can't control. You're drowning. So for that to have happened, for me to not surrender and surf that wave would have meant this book was for nothing. Yeah. You know.

But yeah. And I have a new stand-up special. It's on Netflix, right? Yes, sir. The promos are hilarious. It's called Can I Touch It? And it has a robot in it. Which I touched already.

You did. You touched. I touched it. That's right. You gave me permission. It's called Can I Touch It? Ask for permission. For many reasons.

Yes. Because I talk a lot about all this sort of harassment stuff in the news. And, you know, in comedy, we're at this place where it's like, can I touch this? Can I talk about this? Can we talk about this? Can I say this? Can I, you know, in comedy, we're at this place where it's like, can I touch this? Can I talk about this? Can we talk about this? Can I say this? Can I, you know, have this opinion? I feel like it's sad that comedians are getting shamed for so much.

In some ways, maybe there's some crossing of lines, but sometimes. But I feel like we're just so wound up. Like, everything is personal to people. Yeah, there's a lot of self-righteous indignation. And, you know, but comedy's always been a democracy. It's just that where people vote is changing.

Yeah, so you have to evolve with it. Yeah. Otherwise they're not going to laugh and show up. Yeah, so it's like funny's funny and, you know, I don't think

there's words that I don't, there is a shift happening. I don't think that people should be silenced. But if you don't get a laugh, it... But I think it makes you be more creative.

It's not because the audience is stupid. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Well, you guys are laughing because you're PC. It's like, no, I always give the audience the benefit of the doubt. I think the audience is always right. And I think that because taste is changing and like what you just said, what's funny is changing. Because what we see in the news all the time, it's so brutal that I think what people want to see on their night off is changing. Because what we see in the news all the time, it's so brutal that I think what people want to see on their night off is changing. Because it used to be like, we make fun of the president and we say the things no one can say. We hear about that all

day every day now with Twitter and we're constantly seeing negativity all day in the news. So I think what people want to see on their night off when they're paying $80 is just changing. Yeah. And that's okay. $80 a season? Yeah, I mean, look. I'm in the wrong business. I'll tell you what.

$80? Well, not when you saw me. No, that was. But yeah, so I think it's just, to me, and your listeners are obviously all about thriving and success, and you cannot stick to the thing that worked a year ago if it doesn't work anymore. In your relationship, in your business. In anything. How many times are you going to stub your toe on the table before you either move the table or go around the table? You know what it's, it's, you know, 12 step one-on-one. God helped me to accept

the things I cannot change it, you know, and what can you change? What can't you change? And then go from there. I like it. You know, cause right now we change, what can't you change, and then go from there. I like it. You know, because right now we're just going like, this thing, the thing I did five years ago isn't working. It's like, yeah. Got to grow. When's the special out? July 30th.

July 30th. Yeah. Netflix. Netflix. Watch it. Post it. Share it on Instagram stories when you're watching it. Tag you. It's going to be amazing.

The trailers are incredible on your Instagram right now. I feel like I half said that serenity prayer. I was like, do I even say it? I'm assuming everybody knows that for some reason. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, control the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Is there anything else we can? You're hilarious on Instagram.

Oh, thanks. Whitney Cummings on Instagram. They can see you on tour in LA. Yeah, I'm not touring for a while. It's, you know, kind of my stand-up special. I'm working on a new show. We'll see what happens with it, but I'll start touring soon. Whitney 2.0 is a new show.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I've got a robot that I'm going to start sending out for me. It's amazing. I love it. I want to acknowledge you for Mama Whitney because you have an amazing heart. Oh, that's moment, Whitney, because you have an amazing heart. Oh, that's so nice. You really do have an amazing heart. And I think that is a thing that people recognize the most about you. Obviously, you're extremely creative, talented,

hilarious, all these things. And you tell incredible stories, but you have a powerful heart because you continue to desire to get better. And you want to improve. And I think that's what's really special about you. So I acknowledge you for your heart. Thank you. So my final question, if there's a pause, is what's your definition of – I actually have two final questions. This one is – so maybe it'll pause for a second.

This one is called The Three Truths. So maybe it'll pause for a second. This one is called The Three Truths. So I want to imagine that you are giving the last performance stand-up of your life. And the whole world is watching. Just imagine. It's 50, 100 years from now. You still have all your capabilities of communication.

But you're like, all right, this is my last farewell tour. And eventually, soon after, you're going to die. But you've created everything you want to create, all the specials, books, robots, whatever you want to do in the future, right? But you have one last tour and one last performance. And you do this amazing show. People are laughing, they're crying, they're enjoying,

whatever you want it to be. But at the end, you get to leave people with three things you know to be true about your life and the lessons you would leave behind. It's what I like to call the three truths, that this is all people would have to kind of remember you by, these three lessons. What would you say are yours? And I say them and they get,

believe them. Like it works. Whatever I say works. You say it and this is your truth. This is like, you know, a lesson that's for me is like when I always live in gratitude, I live a better day. Like I want to, I want to leave that behind for you as like a truth. Okay. Okay. When I'm in gratitude, that would be like, yours would be that. I'm just making something up, yeah. Or like, you know, the health is the most important thing in your life. That's the truth. So just give me examples. What are your truths?

I don't want to make something up for you. I'm saying from what you think would be all the lessons you've learned up to now, imagine it's the last performance you get to give. But the world is watching. Are these more emotional? Are these more? Any truth you you get to give. But the world is watching. Are these more emotional? Are these more... Any truth you want it to be. For me, you know, it can be lessons of life.

Not like when you see a dog bite or something. But like a lesson that you would want to leave behind. This is all people would have to remember you by. What would you want to leave behind as like these truths, these lessons? This is a nightmare question. This is hard. Can I have an example of one that you've liked? Yeah.

Someone said Sam Harris. He's like, always tell the truth. He's like, it solves so many problems when you tell the truth. It might be hard. Totally disagree. He said it might be hard. Sometimes you have to lie to people to get them to leave you alone. Okay.

There you go. That can be your truth. No. Well, some people lie. I'm such a big fan of Sam Harris. I'm totally joking. That was one of his truths. I need to take that advice.

Yeah. Because I'm always like, sorry, I can't make it today. I can, but I'm not going to. Yeah. make it today. I can, but I'm not going to. Yeah. I mean, I'm so, because I really need guidance to know how to, you know, I really need like walls to operate in because I get too. Yeah, imagine it's your last day. You've created everything you want to create in the world. TV, movies, whatever, the family you want, but you've got to take it all with you. So no one has access to any of the work you have anymore. So they don't have your content anymore.

Social media is all gone. But you get to write down three things to be true. You get to say a message in front of an audience that you can leave behind and this is all they have. These lessons to live by. Kind of your commandments. I should have prepared for this. I know everyone else does. No, they don't.

Really? It always goes like this? It's better organic. Because you're dealing with a bunch of perfectionists that want to get it right. I want to win this one. It's better organic. I want to beat Sam Harris.

It's better with what's on your mind right now or what's on your heart is even better. It's tricky. Now you're getting an insight into the part of my brain I'm not proud of because I get really indecisive and I get really dichotomous in my thinking. Because my first instinct was you don't owe anyone anything and no one owes you anything. That's something that really helps me when I walk through the world because I'm like nobody owes me anything, nobody owes me anything when my expectations start getting too high.

But at the same time, I want to say like kindness fixes everything and forgiveness fixes everything. But then I'm like, but you don't owe. Do those contradict each other? Am I a hypocrite? Is that a truth or no? No. Okay. None of these are good yet. Okay. Number one, what would you say? What's something that you could be proud to leave behind as a truth? But am I trying to like fix problems? Am I trying to fix the world?

I'm trying to make, what am I? Just your final message. You don't have to fix anything. I wouldn't do the show. How much am I getting paid for the show? If I only had one show left, I wouldn't show up. I wouldn't go. What's just, you know, what are you feeling right now?

It doesn't have to be, you'd always tell me later, hey, I would add this other truth. It's okay if you need like seven truths or 20. But if you just three things that you feel like in the last few years that you're like, yeah, those are good lessons. I'd want to share that. If you've met more than two assholes in one day, maybe you're the asshole. I know it sounds like a quote. It sounds like a... Never heard that one.

It's just like you have more power than you think in terms of, you know, maybe it's you. Because I think, you know, blame is such a drug and, you know, and it's tricky because we're seekers and we're people that are constantly proving ourselves. But it really made me feel a power I didn't have. When someone's like, when something's your fault, at least I can do something about it. There's something liberating in it being your fault. I love when things are my fault. I love when I'm wrong because at least I can fix it.

When someone else is wrong, there's nothing I can do. Yell at them, shame them. Totally. There's nothing you can do. Manipulate them, scream at them, and then you're in insanity. So I think that probably be quotes that you've heard from other people that worked for me. That's fine. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. That helped me a lot. So I know that to be true. Okay.

That's one. This is going to sound like me being, having an agenda. And this is a quote. There's people, like 50 people have said it and nobody knows who actually said it. It's assigned to like 50 people. But I do think we are so disconnected

from the other species on our planet. It just helps. The way we treat animals is our legacy because animals are just what have less power than us. So the way we treat our animals is the way we treat our women, the way we treat our children, the way we treat anyone who's more... It's how we teach the next generation to abuse their power. So I think that that is something that just the way we treat our women, children, and animals is who we are. Ultimately, I don't know why, I don't know, this comedy show is going to be awful. My last show is going to be terrible. You've already made people laugh. Now I'm going to be bombing. I just want to hear a message. Like, I think it's, you know,

mistreating people doesn't make you powerful. You know, mistreating something with less power isn't power. Yeah, I love the quote or the meme that's like, my father always taught me to treat the janitor that's the same as the CEO. Or it's like, always treat people with, like, equal kindness. Yeah. The way you treat other people is a reflection of how you feel about yourself, you know. And I think that when you disrespect other people, you're just ruining your reputation. You're hurting yourself. So I think that that's something that we don't understand or something that maybe there's a little bit of a dissonance on. The way you treat other people is very much

a reflection of who you are and how you feel about yourself. Are you choosing to toxify your environment? Are you choosing to purify your environment? That's probably. Okay, that's two. Your final message to the world. I don't even like that last one. I like it. How you treat other people is a reflection of you?

Yeah, but that's so obvious. That's obvious. Truths can be simple. They can be simple. It doesn't have to be something like, I think simple is profound. That's one of my truths. That's a good one. Okay, that's a really good one.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Less is more. I don't know what to do. This is so hard. What's another good one? What's in your heart right now? Just pure confusion.

Because you're analyzing. Confusion. You're analyzing. I know. I just want it to be good, yeah. Am I going to win this? Mm-hmm, yeah. But if not going to win this. Yeah. But if you had a lesson that you could share with your heart, a lesson from your relationship maybe, relationship with your parents, relationship with your fiancé, what's a lesson?

I'm too analytical for this question because I don't like truisms. I don't like super. Lesson? Love yourself. I don't like super... Love yourself. I don't like that. We talked about this because it's like... This is going to be

a comedy special one day. This is a nightmare. A guy asked me about what my three truths are and I couldn't figure out And I jumped out the window. I mean, I'm going to... Because I don't like

things that if there's even one way to disprove it, debunk it. It's not true. I don't like it. I just go, well, if it's not true once, it's not true. Then a't like it. I just go, well, if it's not true once,

it's not true. Get a lesson. Yeah, that's a better one. A good lesson then. I feel bad about that love yourself thing. No, it's all right. I think people are using the self-love thing to not take responsibility for their behavior, but I'm going to love myself. It's like, you still should process your consequences and ramifications. There is this new radical self-love thing that is giving people permission to be jerks. Or unhealthy. Yeah, I'm going to just love myself. I drink four glasses of wine a day, but I love myself.

And you're like, no, that's... There's consequences to loving yourself that way. It doesn't mean radically just be irresponsible and don't take inventory of your behavior. Look at the ruckus you're causing around you and the damage you're doing as well, if so. We don't forgive others because they deserve forgiveness. We forgive others because we deserve peace.

That's a good one. That's a great truth. That's a good one. That might be the most powerful one. No one's ever said that. That's the best one. That is a banger. It's a banger.

Resentment is a disease. It's correct. It crystallizes in your heart. Rat poison. You're drinking and you're trying to give to someone else. Yes. And it just calcifies and you project it all over the place. You create an energetic cancer in the world.

Yeah. I like this one. So you won with that. I agree. Sam, take that. This is so, this is a good one and I don't think I'm going to phrase it eloquently first, but I do like it. And I'm sure someone said it in some way, but just that it's a big thing we say in program is just like, you're not your story. You're not the story you wrote about yourself. Or you can be a new story.

Sorry, I interrupted you there. No, please. You can be a new story. Yeah. You can be the new story. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, that's right.

You're not the old story, but you can create a new story. You cast yourself in the wrong movie. Yeah. It's just, you know, and I think that, like, most of your thoughts are science fiction. I mean, that's the other thing. Like, a lot of your thoughts and beliefs just aren't true. And that doesn't mean you're an idiot. That doesn't mean you're stupid.

It's just that person's mad at me. That person doesn't like me. Like, they're not thinking about you at all, in fact. They don't care. They're in their own insecurity. They're worried if you like them. They're obsessed about their selfie or, you know, whatever. You know, we obsess about what other people think about us

until we realize they're just not thinking about us at all. Good news, bad news. So I think that like a lot of our beliefs being science fiction is really helpful to me. A lot of the things that I, I think that's, a lot of people don't like that because they're like, what do you mean? You're calling me dumb or, you know, it's just, it's no, that's a relief. A lot of the things that are in your head, the voices in your head aren't yours. Yeah. You can let go of it. Yeah. They're voices that developed when you were a kid and under different circumstances.

Is that two? That's three. Are you sure? I bombed this part. Did you give us one? Yeah, that's a good one. This one that you just said, the story? There's no difference between the way you treat other people.

And the story. And then you're not your story? I like these three a lot. I don't think I've ever heard those three as a combination. I don't even know if I like these three a lot. I don't think I've ever heard those three. It's a combination. I don't even know if I've heard two of the three I don't think I've heard. He's a liar. I'm not.

I can't remember if they happened. Yeah. They're very powerful. Your inner monologue's just not true. That's kind of helpful sometimes. Mm-hmm. Sorry. You got like seven and a half in here. I like it.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. That was like solid, solid C minus. This is all good. I feel like. It's not a competition. No, it is. No, it ain't.

Let's be honest. Life's a game. I'm looking at this role. I'm trying to win. And I'm like, okay, I'm failing this. These are perfect. I think they're beautiful. Maybe this is so stupid

but I think it's an artist like mistakes sometimes are the best part of anything except for this section of this it's just mistakes are always where the magic is

in everything you know I think that's that's has taken me a long time to learn I love it you know this is amazing

I really acknowledge you for staying in this through the construction through the oh gosh the analytical, through the analytical brain, through the robot deformity. Oh, yeah, that's right. Everything is happening.

But I really am glad that I got to know you because I've just seen you on your show or special and at the comedy store once or twice. But getting to know your heart is really inspiring. So I'm really glad we connected right now in this moment in time. And I hope we get to do more stuff and I can support you in any way. Just let me know. If anything, look, your listeners, I have no idea what their takeaway from this is. But if anything, branding. And I'm not. I'm a, if anything, I'm a big mess and I have success.

You can be a mess and have success. Like I'm looking at your wall and it's all these like overachieving, like A plus, like incredible people. I make mistakes and I'm an addict and I had eating disorders and I had a, you know, and I'm still, I have not fixed everything about me and I still have success, you know. So maybe that's a good takeaway.

You can just be a train wreck and still have success. Live in the world. You don't have to be like you, like, you don't have to have read every single book. You don't have to, like, you know to be giving inspirational seminars in order to have success. That's great. Maybe that's imperfection is also okay. It's perfect. God, this wall is really intense.

It's like all professional healers. I know. You know some of these healers? Yeah, I know a lot of these people. I've been through it all. You don't have to meditate every day to be a success. I'm about to totally ruin. I'm about to debunk everything. You don't have to have rituals. You don't have to write in a journal. You don't have to wake up at five. You don't have to work out. You don't have to be keto

or paleo. I don't even know what I'm saying. You don't have to do any of that stuff. You don't even know what I'm saying. Like, you don't have to do any of that stuff. You don't have to take vitamins every, you can still be successful even if you're not. Perfect. Yeah. Doing all the things that. Life hacking. Yeah, whatever. That's good. You can be a hot mess.

I love it. I got to come to your show. Do you do every week down here at the Comedy Store? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm there a couple nights a week. I got to come more often then. You've inspired me to want to come out more, so I'm going to come out and bug you and heckle at you.

Sometimes I cancel. Sometimes I flake. Sometimes I'm imperfect. I'm a flaming mess. I love it. This is my final question for you for this interview, and I hope I do more with you in the future. But the final question is, what's your definition of greatness my definition of greatness is uh

I don't know I'm pretty hard I'm pretty rough about this it's excellence and authenticity in the same do you know what I mean yeah if you're someone else's version of great that's kind of whoops I think and this is maybe because I'm a comic and an artist, and I think it's greatness is like, at least in what I do in my personal life, I don't even think I can really speak to that. Because I think greatness in your personal life is more about your behavior instead of other people's behavior. You know, what you don't do instead of what you do do.

Greatness is about shutting your mouth and not saying that thing or not giving that criticism or not losing your temper. Greatness is more about being stoic. But I think for what I do for a living professionally, it's about making sure someone, before they see you and after they see you, they're changed in some way. Leaving some kind of impact,

like making them think differently, see something differently, laugh at something they never thought was funny. It's at least what I do. The movie I made, if you don't leave that movie knowing more about neurology than you did, then I've failed. There's no greatness in that. If you leave a comedy show that I

did knowing less or not having tweaked your perception of something, I've failed. There's no greatness there. So I think it's like greatness and what I do is just leaving an imprint on somebody in some real way. You know, otherwise, what are you doing? You're just wasting someone's time.

It's just masturbatory. But that's really specific. Yeah. I like it. Changing someone's mind about something, I guess. That's what we try to do here. That's what I told you I wanted to do with this interview. I was like's what we try to do here and that's what I told you I wanted to do with this interview I was like I want people to leave better than this that

they feel inspired to make an impact they want to take an action think differently share with a friend because I just get a little bit I get stuck in that and sorry now I'm rambling I get a little bit stuck in the whole like affect people and because that sometimes goes into my codependence it's not your job to fix people or you know that's or not fixed yeah it's your job to fix themselves like greatness isn't isn't martyrdom you know you don't grow out of martyr yourself on people rescue people emotionally you know care take people that because so that's when I get a little bit like oh wait a second greatness is staying in your lane and fixing yourself because you're the best way to is to lead by example you know so that's why i'm kind of like tripping up on it it's also like what i'm hearing you say is

like creating a piece of art through your work that empowers people to think in a way to improve their life yeah and have conversations they wouldn't have normally or change the way that they think for the better or you know change their mind about something or even if it's as simple as like oh women are funny oh like even if it's as simple as like, oh, women are funny. Oh, even if it's that simple, even if I'm setting an example or a woman going like, oh, maybe I can do that thing I was scared of doing. I think leading by example is important. So I think greatness starts with, you know, making yourself, instead of focusing on how can I help other people. Like, we'll get your shit together and then we'll talk about what you can do for other people.

But you're, you know. You're a mess. Cleaning up your mess and then we'll talk about what you can do for other people but you're a you know you're a mess cleaning up clean up your mess and then we'll talk about you know so I try to sort of stay in that space I also think there's just like a simple greatness like would I make a better decision today than I would yesterday I think also there's that we get so and you're such a like big picture healer that I think sometimes there's this pressure to, like, do something. Sometimes greatness is, like, can be tiny and incremental. Absolutely. And just, like, today I didn't text that person back. That can be greatness.

Because sometimes that's the hard, you know. Yeah. Or small acts every single day are great. Yeah. Yeah. I think to me I get so. Smiling at someone on the street. I think to me I get so – Smiling at someone on the street.

That's why I'm getting so daunted because I'm like greatness. Like oh – like this is such a big – I think greatness can be really tiny. This is why my definition used to be something like go be the best in the world. But then it shifted to discover your unique talents, pursue your dreams that you enjoy, and make an impact on people along the way while you're pursuing the thing you love. Yeah. For me, it's like, there's no way in the world to be number one in the world and make a billion dollars or be so successful that everyone loves you. It's do the thing you love and help people along the way by being positive. Yeah, because I think that we always forget about the lead by example positive. Because it's, yeah, because I think that like it's, I think always forget about the lead by example thing.

It's like people can look to you and go, I might not have a podcast and be a brand like him, but I'm a teacher. And if I just teach these five kids, you know, Impact these people. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

Like what's your version of greatness? That's it. That's it. God, these questions are really stressing me out. I'm stressed. All good. Well, this is the last question. So I appreciate it. Again, these questions are really stressing me out. I'm stressed. Okay. Well, this is the last question, so I appreciate it. Again, thank you for your heart.

I really, I don't know, I really like hanging out with you. I don't want to say I like you. I don't think I've ever called someone I really like you. Does he do this all the time? I feel weird that I'm saying I like you. I hope so. I don't know. I just enjoy the level of work that you've done on yourself and continue to do and acknowledging of it and processing constantly.

I think it's rare to see someone in your position do this much work. Oh, wow. And talk about it openly and be, like, proud of it and not shaming yourself. Yeah, I just, I think we all like, I don't know, for me, I like to lead with my failures and mistakes and flaws. And because I think there's right now, there's just this perfectionism culture and this brag about only your wins and don't talk about any of your losses culture. And I just, I think it's, it's just, it's no good. But I appreciate that you say that. I appreciate you being here. Thank you, sir. I hope that was perfectly imperfect. A big thank you, my friend, for being here and listening to this episode.

If you enjoyed this, you know what to do. Spread the love. Send a text to one friend. I don't care if you're using WhatsApp or you're DMing a friend or you text them, Facebook Messenger, just message one friend this link, lewishouse.com slash 832, or take the link on the podcast app where you're listening to this on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you're listening to this,

take the link and message one friend. Be a champion. Be a hero. Be a leader, an inspiring person in someone's life today by sending them this interview and recommending them check it out. Whitney has had an incredible life experience. So many things she's been up to, so many mistakes and failures and lessons and successes that you can learn from and your friends can learn from too.

So make sure to share that out with your friends. And do me a favor and leave a review. I don't care if you leave one star, three star, or go five stars like most people do, but just write your thoughts. I want to hear your thoughts. I want to hear how I can make this better. I want to hear if you enjoyed this interview or not, what you gained from Whitney, and what you'd like to learn more of. So share your thoughts, write it down. We share this with our audience. We share with our team and it really helps us continue to spread the message of greatness. In the beginning in here, we had a quote. We had a quote from Mary Tyler Moore who said, take chances, make mistakes.

That's how you grow. Pain nourishes your courage and you have to fail in order to practice being brave. I hope you're doing something that scares you today. Every single day, I hope you're doing something that cultivates your courage, that allows you to be brave. It's hard to be brave if you're just sitting on the couch and not doing anything that scares you, if you're not taking any risks.

But you become more brave. You build the muscle of bravery when you take risks and chances and do things that risk being embarrassed, that risk failure, that risk being judged. Put yourself out there. Continue to step into who you were born to be. As always, I love you. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Bye.