The School of Greatness - 851 Sophia Bush on Speaking Your Truth

Episode Date: September 18, 2019

YOU TEACH OTHERS HOW TO TREAT YOU. Often, we don’t like how people talk to us. Whether it’s at home, at work, or with our friends, there are many times where we don’t get the respect we desire. It feels terrible. But how much ownership do we take of those situations? Here’s the truth- you get what you put up with. Unless you’re willing to set boundaries and tell people what’s not ok, you’ll end up being walked over. If you keep showing up, people will assume that it isn’t that bad. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about what it takes to stand up for the things you believe with an actor-turned-activist: Sophia Bush. Sophia Bush starred as Brooke Davis in The WB/CW drama series One Tree Hill and as Det. Erin Lindsay in the NBC police procedural drama series Chicago P.D. Sophia consistently uses her platform for activism and fundraising and has a new podcast called Work in Progress. Sophia stood up for herself before the Me Too Movement began by quitting a television show where she was being mistreated. She shares her struggle to admit that something was wrong and the tricks her mind played on her in the process. So get ready to learn how to have the courage to demand change on Episode 851. Some Questions I Ask: What’s missing in your toolkit? (31:00) What needs to change for actual change to happen? (53:00) How do we know what to take on first? (58:00) What are the three accounts we should follow to be educated on what’s going on? (1:12:00) Who was the most influential person in your life? (1:18:30) In This Episode You Will Learn: The scary side of acting (27:00) About Lewis’ “Yes and No List” (34:00) The importance of opening up about what you’re ashamed of (40:00) The struggle Sophia had with quitting her toxic work environment (45:00) How to separate yourself from the system that you’re in (1:00:00) Sophia’s plan for the future (1:24:00) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/851 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes

This is episode number 851 with Sophia Bush. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Eleanor Roosevelt said, remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual,

you have an obligation to be one. I am super pumped about today's interview. Very excited. If this is your first time here, then welcome to the School of Greatness. We've been around for almost seven years. Three times a week, we bring you some of the most inspiring people in the world to open your heart, to connect you to your purpose and your mission, to help you grow in your business and your life and your relationships, your spirituality. And today, we have an incredible human being. Sophia Bush is an actress, activist, director, and producer. She was a star on the drama series One Tree Hill from 2003 to 2012

and starred in the NBC drama series Chicago PD from 2014 to 2017. She's also had major film roles like John Tucker Must Die, The Hitcher, The Narrows, and the animated superhero film Incredibles 2, which was a personal favorite of mine. Sophia also raises awareness of world events and fundraisers with involvement in F Cancer, Run for the Gulf, and Global Green Gulf Relief, and Every Town for Gun Safety. And her new podcast, Work in Progress, features frank, funny, personal, professional, and sometimes even political conversations

with people who inspire Sophia about how they've gotten to where they are and where they think they're still going. And we dived into a lot of different things today, probably some topics that I've never really covered and talked about for this long. Why you should make friends with your fear and how to treat it like an emotional investment in the things you care about.

It's one of the first things we covered. Also, how speaking your truth can set you free and save lives, not just close to you, but all around the world. The difference between how men and women share their truth and why we should be sharing our truth more, taking on world issues, how to figure out which to take on and how to pass the baton, but run like a team, and who was the most influential person in Sophia's life growing up. That and so much more. I am super pumped. If you enjoy this episode, make sure to text it to one friend. The link is lewishouse.com slash 851,

or you can just take the link on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening to it and text one friend today. You can be a champion in someone's life today by sending them this information. It's going to be inspiring and powerful, and it's going to help a lot of people. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the inspiring Sophia Bush in the house. So pumped you're here. Hi. I think I got connected to you 2011, 12, through Adam Braun.

Because you were involved in Pencils of Promise. Yeah. I think before me. And I got involved right after. And he was telling me about this girl who was really inspiring, who's up to big things, who wants to give back. And I was like, who? And she was like to give back. And I was like, who? And she was like, Sophia Bush.

And I was like, oh, cool. And I didn't know who you were. I didn't watch any of the TV shows you were in. But I was like, OK, let me research her. And I really loved your integrity. I loved your mission. I loved your heart. Thanks.

Because I feel like a lot of people with a platform or an audience or on TV or movies, you don't always know what their intentions are. And I felt like you're willing to spend your time and your energy and your money to give back. And I think that's really powerful. So that was my first impression of you. And I've been able to watch, I think I've only seen you a couple of times in the last seven years, I think, or whatever it is. I think once at Soho House, maybe a summer series, maybe somewhere else we ran into each other. But I've always enjoyed kind of following your journey, especially online.

I don't watch TV too much. But the online journey of you constantly being a stand for humanity, and that's what I love about the work that you do. You use your platform to make a stand. Whether people agree with the stand or not, whether they think you're right or wrong, you're very convicted in your beliefs of trying to improve everyone's situation. And I think that's really powerful. We were talking about this before, before we started about you passionately,

and I don't know if this is public information before what you were talking about. Is it okay to the... Which part? We're sitting out there talking about the TV show. I mean, there were a lot of things we were talking about out there, yeah. You passionately, I guess, decided to leave a show that you're on. Is that? Yeah, no, people, I mean, yes, people know I left. You wanted to leave because you were standing up for something you believed in. Is that true? Yeah.

And I think that's hard for people to consider, I think, in your position. Because you're getting paid a lot of money. I know how much actors make who have been series regulars for a while. You're making a lot of money per episode. And to say, I'd rather stand up for what I believe in instead of keep getting these big checks and being on TV, I think that's really, I mean, that's inspiring. I think, look, the reality is that we're so much more than what we do. And sometimes you get to the destination and you realize that it isn't what you thought it was going to be. How many people in how many professions have been there? You achieve the goal and go, huh? Oh, okay. What it is on paper, what it looks like through a screen, what it looks like on Instagram, that's not what it is. And for me to have all the things on paper that should go under the dream job title. Right. But not in your heart, maybe.

Yeah. And to feel so miserable and so disrespected and so taken advantage of and so just eaten up and spit out by the environment I was in, I just went, I don't have to do this. And it took a long time for me to get there. You know, it wasn't just a moment. I think it's interesting because some people will say I couldn't I could have never done that like how did how did you stay in this situation or how did you leave this situation it doesn't happen overnight in hindsight and you know cliches are cliches right because they're true like hindsight really is 2020 and in hindsight I knew at the end of our second season that I needed to leave. Wow. And it took me until the first meeting for season four to tell them that if this wasn't all going to get resolved in a meaningful way, I'd leave at the end of the year. And they thought I was bluffing, which was also really interesting given what was going on.

And at the end of the year, when it became really clear that I was leaving, nothing would keep me there. I just realized, you know, I've, I've been a cog in this machine for two more years. It took me two years of processing and then fighting to get free. Why do you think it took you so long when your intuition told you like, ah, I should be done after the first or second season? Well, I think what's really tricky is that anytime we're not involved in a situation, we assume that things are very black and white. We assume that it's like a seesaw and over here is the yes and over here is the no, and you just go between them. But the reality of any situation is that you're in this sort of amorphous spherical space and there's so much at play. There's pain and there's joy and there's upset and there's success and there's the three weeks of misery at work and then you have this one day that's so great.

It's amazing, yeah. work and then you have this one day that's so great. And then there's, you know, and there's other relationships and people who you care about and spaces that you love and friends in the community. And it's not just this or that. And it's hard. And, and there's also, I think for me, um, a little bit of that, like Joan of Arc, like you will not, you know, mess with my space, my stuff, you know, that thing of like, this is mine and you don't get to take it from me. And then part of me went, but what's mine? Why, why do I need to stay here?

For what exactly? And that was a big kind of aha moment. You know, um, I started thinking a lot about how little of something bad it can take. Just like a little bit of bacteria can give a body food poisoning, which is a little bit of exposure can give you Ebola and kill you a little bit of poison in the well ruins the water tower. One mosquito can kill you. And so it became less about trying to create this equal system of metrics of what was good and what was bad and more about how big is the infection and will I survive it? And the answer was no. And so I left. It seems like a lot of confidence

though, to be able to do that, to be able to leave something with that much credibility or prestige or whatever may be perceived and to be able to leave the way you did. And you just seem like a very confident, passionate, poised individual. Maybe you don't feel that way on the inside, but you seem it whenever I'm around you and the way you write and your posts and just your character that you play. You always seem to be very confident and sure of yourself. Do you feel like it's always been that way? I am sure of right and wrong for us as a collective. I am confident and poised, and I am the most passionate person in the room when it comes to doing what is right for people. When it's for me, all of that goes out the window. Oh yeah. Do you think you're insecure when it comes to yourself or your second guess things?

I think I'm a human who has all the same fears and insecurities and self-doubt that anybody does. There's this other assumption when we look through screens, right? Where you're like, Oh, all these people have it figured out. They have success. And so they, they have no fear and they have no anxiety. And it's like, everybody gets up in the morning, wishes they looked a little different than they look, wishes they had a little more energy than they had wishes. They're like, we all have garbage. And I think the difference for me is that right and wrong for community, for neighborhood, for city, for state, for humanity is so clear. What we all deserve is so clear. This idea that there is no such thing as other people's children, all the work you and I have done over the years for Pencils of Promise, That's so clear. That's true. Every kid deserves a shot and a chance. That's just true. Truth for

me is obvious, but what's obvious is about this and all the doubt lives in what's about this. Really? And so that's the journey is how do you navigate it? How do you work it? And so the confidence that it's funny the way people perceive you versus how you feel. But the confidence that I think was observable in my decision to leave and the way that I left and the way that I've held very true to what happened and why it was unacceptable. Yeah, those things are true. But it's a larger truth.

What I went through as a woman in the workplace, how could I go out and defend other women if I was tolerating it for myself? Not happening. Yeah, you're out of integrity then. There's no way. Yeah. So I left.

Wow. And the years of reporting and working and asking for help and doing all the things and dotting my I's and crossing my T's that I did behind the scenes weren't enough. So I had to do something big enough to create a lasting change in the environment I was working in. Because the reality was that if I stayed, they continued to go, well, it's not that bad. I mean, she comes to work every day. Right, right, right. She's here. Yeah. So she's all right. And I remember I had a day where I was literally, I was so upset that, you know, when

like devastation turns to anger as a defense mechanism, because otherwise you're going to die and a puddle of tears on the floor. I had that moment and I walked into my boss's office and my whole body was shaking like this and I could feel the lump in my throat. But like what came out was like fire breathing dragon. And I, I, it was so quiet cause I was so angry. And I just said, I don't know what I have to do, but I'm this close. If I do, I need to start flipping tables and throwing computer monitors through the window do i have to cause physical monetary damage to the set for you to do something about what's happening in those four walls because that's where i'm at like if you want the mariah carey breakdown on set it's coming it's coming and and i was like y'all know like the the like boxer in me i'm about i'm about to break everything.

And he was just like, what do you mean? And I was like, what do you, he's like, what's wrong? I thought you were fine. Like I, you know, what's been happening for the last four years. What do you mean? What do I mean? And he said, well, I know, I know that, you know, there's been a lot wrong. And he went on his whole thing.

He said, but you always come in and you're so professional and you never complain. And I was like, cause that's my job. Exactly. My job is to come in here and be a professional. That's my job. And I'm really good at it. That's why I'm a good leader and a good partner and a good castmate and a good producer. That is my job. I advocate for my crew every day because it is what's right. And it is my job. And I take the responsibility seriously. But just because I present as okay in my working environment where I have to do that doesn't mean this is okay. And I don't know why all of the conversations we've had in these offices haven't communicated how not okay it is.

And I realized there was this weird thing where they sort of assumed if I kept showing up, it wasn't really that bad. And or if she were really that upset, she wouldn't be able to work. And it's like, so I'm meant to damage my own integrity to prove to you what a problem, this systemic issue on your set is. No,

never, never going to do that. Never going to do it. But it was a big moment where I went, I just don't have to, I don't have to stay here to prove that I can anymore. I'm good. I think I proved it.

I've like, you know, I've filmed over 60,000 hours of television. Wow. 60,000. Yeah. When you consider, you know, sort of on the average of how many hours it takes to make an episode and then making, having made hundreds episodes of television i've been on set making those shows for around 60 000 hours maybe 55 because when was the first uh main series you were on what year was that so one tree hill is that yeah i don't even know what year that was 2003 for how long was it how long were you in that for nine years nine years the problem is that you so your seasons on a show go from when you start filming,

July through to the end of the following April. So people will ask me, what year did that happen? And I go, I don't know what year it was, but it was season four. So it was either this year or this year. So my whole calendar is totally screwed up. I have no idea. How many shows in a season?

That show we did, depending on the season, we did 22, 23, or 24 episodes a year. And on that show, we made 187 episodes. Total? Yeah. Wow. That's a lot of TV. And then four years on the last show, right?

Mm-hmm. Four years on that show, and then a year on this really fun comedy called Partners. And yeah, the last show was 23 a year-hmm. Four years on that show and then a year on this really fun comedy called Partners. And yeah, the last show was 23 a year also. That's a lot of episodes. You're a seasoned pro. Yeah.

There's probably not many people who have done that many TV episodes. Yeah, a lot of TV. You're in like the 1% of 1% of people on TV probably. That's a lot. Right?

I'm assuming. I don't, I mean, I don't know. There's probably not many people who have done that many episodes. It's crazy. It's like Malcolm Gladwell right 10,000 hours yeah you've done

10,500 60,000 hours yeah exactly yeah that's amazing that's what I know when is it that you doubt yourself the most then

it depends on on the space do you doubt yourself in your profession ever or is it more of course personal relationships oh my god it can be so scary I remember remember. Really? Yeah. Being on set? Oh yeah. It's terrifying.

You're a pro. It doesn't matter. You've done every emotion. But it doesn't matter. It's always new. And the thing about acting, performing, emoting, there's no guarantee. That what? It'll land or that you're going to hit it the first time? Or that it's going to work that day. Like, no, you know, this idea that, that people just cry on command, like doesn't work like that for me. I have to be in a place. I have to be, you know, there there's a sort of ephemeral nature to it. You just never know if it's going to work. And that can be very scary. And especially when there's something you really want. Look, all of us have a scared eight-year-old inside of us. All of us have the 14-year-old who flunked that important test or whatever it might be. Got rejected by the girl.

Yeah. We've all been brokenhearted. We've all broken hearts. We've run the gamut. So no matter what, things are scary. I just, I, I just got asked to read for my favorite writer on a show. And so that brings up a level of like, like one, I just like, I'm going to throw up. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to do this. Like I, I got so scared. You were like a beginner again. Oh my God. Terrified. And it was really funny because I was, I was away with some friends. Um, two of my best friends are like one of my favorite couple, Aaron and Lauren. And Aaron happens to be Aaron Paul, like the legend of breaking bad. I was with them at a wedding. They're the best. And, and we're

having this conversation about creativity. And I was saying how scared I was to read for this thing. And he looked at me, he goes, but you're so good at your job and i went am i and he was like sofia and it was this moment where i was like okay i mean aaron thinks i'm good at my job i'm gonna be fine i'm gonna be fine am i gonna be fine and you go into this like terrified place that never goes away and i remember reading this interview years ago that harrison ford did and he was saying i don't remember what movie he was doing, but he was talking about getting to set and saying that every time he gets on set

for the first day, he looks around and goes, this is going to be the one. This is going to be the movie where everyone figures out I have no idea what I'm doing. Shut up. And I'm never going to get a job again.

And that's Harrison Ford. Wow. Hello? Like Star Wars royalty. Yeah. And I went, oh, right. It never goes away. No matter how much you succeed,

you're always afraid. And I think that when you right. It never goes away no matter how much you succeed. You're always afraid. And I think that when you make friends with that fear, then it gets a little bit better. What I started to do when I got this thing to read for this writer who I am obsessed with, I went, oh, instead of letting the fear swallow me alive, what if I looked at it and went, oh, cute. That means you care. Cute.

What if I started changing the relationship to the fear? That doesn't mean I'm not afraid. That doesn't mean I'm not terrified that I'm going to do something wrong. But what it means is I can take it as a sign of emotional investment and I can wear that with pride. it as a sign of emotional investment and I can wear that with pride. But I still, 16 years into my career, having made more TV than a lot of people, care that much. I still care like it's the first time. Wow. So, okay. Now the thing that felt debilitating feels kind of like a win. I like that part of myself that I care that much. I care that much about you, about the world, about advocacy, and about my job. That's pretty cool.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. You still love what you do. So I'm learning how to have a different emotional experience. And that I think is part of the cool thing about the journey when you do the work. It is. You listen to the podcast and you have the deep talks and you have the good therapist. Then your toolkit starts to look different. That's it.

What's missing in your toolkit? What's missing in my toolkit? That would make you more empathetic or a better leader or a better partner, friend, activist, actress. I think the ability to really effectively manage time and say no more is what I'm missing. Thank you for saying yes to come here. I'm here.

But that's a big thing for me. It's very, very difficult for me. You say yes to a lot? To a lot. Yeah. To like everything? Not everything. I've gotten better. You don't to a lot? To a lot. Yeah. To like everything? Not everything. You don't want to let people down probably, right? I don't want to let people down, sure. I think at this stage in my life, it's a little less of that. It's a little less about the people pleasing.

But for me, the blessing and the curse of the way that my empathy works is that I see how interconnected every single system is. I see that our liberation is all tied together. I see that I want to advocate for women and that I need to sit at the feet of women of color to learn how to be the right kind of ally to that community that when I'm advocating for the, for intersectional communities of women, I have to invite men to the table and talk to men as my allies, not as my enemies, so that those men can turn around and help me and all of these women defeat the men who are the enemies. Everything is connected.

And gun violence and health care and our political system and corruption in the political system and lobbying. Everything is connected. There's only so many things you can fight for, isn't there? Isn't there one thing we're fighting for, which is like just freedom and equality and opportunities? But if you don't get into the nuance, then your fight is not effective. And so for me, saying yes to a lot is because I understand the connection of a lot. And I am having to learn how I want to design life going forward.

There are a lot of jobs I've said no to. There are things I've turned down. There are other avenues I've started exploring. Everyone is like, you should have left your show and been right back on another show. I didn't want to do it that way. I'm really building a new thing for myself. What are you building? I'm building a lot. I'm building a lot. Tell me, I'm excited building a new thing for myself. What are you building?

I'm building a lot. I'm building a lot. Tell me, I'm excited about this. But it is a thing where, like on Friday I'm sitting down with one of my best friends who has a very organizational brain. I'm a visionary and a storyteller and a planner

and I can help solve for anything. But it's the execution where I struggle. Operations. Yeah. The ops are hard for me. And so we're going to sit down and get like special ops on my life. Like whiteboards, columns, the whole thing. And I'm excited about it.

But I think that some of that will help me build better. And I also think that I have to be a little clearer on what's a yes and what's a no. And that's, that's, that's an area where I struggle. I created a list a year ago with my business partner, a yes and no list.

And it's changed the game for me. Okay. So what, what goes on my business, right? Like, so, um, a yes and no list for you? For my business, right? Sure. But I'm curious how you start to figure it out. It was trying to organize everything

and we're still adding to it. It's like, gosh, I'm exhausted when I do these things. So this is a no. So whenever I try something new and it's like, oh, this is a yes. So yes to a certain speaking fee. Because I just get asked all the time to speak. Some stuff I'll do absolutely free because I believe in it.

It's a friend of mine or whatever. And then I used to just kind of like go in a range. I'm like, okay, I'll do it for this. I'll do it for that. But now it's like, no, here's my rate. Otherwise, I'll do a few for free for friends. And then otherwise, it's a no. As opposed to trying to negotiate.

It's just like, here's my rate. You can pay me this. And if not, sorry, I don't need it. Because if you start going on a range, you are not energetically being clear about what you're worth. Exactly. And then you get met with things that are unworthy. Exactly.

And then you're resenting it later. And that's in relationships. That's in relationships. That's in working partnerships. It's not just, it's really interesting starting to, you know, and I was one of those people when The Secret came out. I was like, this book is so stupid. But when you really, when you, yeah.

There's some power to it. But when, but when you really start looking at things like the law of attraction and, and more than just the law of attraction, boundary setting. Huge. Boundaries are massive. People only love you the way you teach them to. And you get what you tolerate. And you have to do that with boundaries. Yes. way you teach them to and you get what you tolerate with boundaries yes you get what you tolerate oh god and that's it and so it's

same thing with the relationship with your pay all these things you're gonna get what you tolerate and that was a big thing for me leaving the last gig because i was like you kept getting it because you were tolerating it until you said because i because i was tolerating it either you change or i'm gonna leave yeah I'm going to leave. Yeah. And you decided to leave because they weren't going to change. So now you have a new life. And you're not tolerating that anymore. And I wake up in my own

bed. It's amazing. For the first time since I was 21. It's got to feel amazing. I live in my own house. It's got to be amazing. It's amazing. So nice. So you just wish you didn't have construction like I do right now. I mean, listen. I'm game.

At least you're in LA. It's a consistent routine. Also, my contractor is one of my closest friends, which is a real dream. I'm so lucky. That's cool. Because my first contractor was a nightmare. Nightmare. Wow.

Yeah, no. One of my friends was like, if I ever saw that guy on the street, it would take me a minute to not run him over. I was like, also, I understand what you're saying, but we just shouldn't even put the vibe out there. Yeah, I know. I don't want any of the like karmic way of wishing you'll be alive.

Words are a powerful thing. Yeah, I was like, you know, the people who take advantage of people will get theirs in the end. Yeah, exactly. Words are a powerful thing and I think it's also important. I've done so much forgiveness

over the last six years of my life. It's really when I turned 30 when I went on a path and a journey of kind of working on this work of taking down my own mass of masculinity. And I was always like the lovable, fun, joyful, affectionate human until I felt triggered. And then I was like, just not nice. What does that mean? Until I felt like someone And then I was like, it's not nice. What does that mean?

Until I felt like someone was taking advantage of me, like I feel like I was getting abused. Because my trigger was abuse. I was sexually abused when I was a kid. And I started to open up about it at 30. So it took me 25 years to talk about it, even say it. Because I didn't have anywhere to go. The story is I didn't feel like I had anywhere to go to,

to share with anyone. And even just like putting my hand on like a buddy of mine, they'd be like, get off me, fag, gay, what are you doing? You're a wuss, you're a pussy, whatever. They would just, it's just like the language of, you know, where I grew up in Ohio, and I think a lot of places in the country where it's not acceptable for boys

to be affectionate to other boys. It's like put your arm around a teammate. It's so detrimental affectionate to other boys. It's like, put your arm around a teammate. It's so detrimental. So it's like, you could never just put your arm around a teammate and give them a hug. And so I had to put up this mask and this wall of this tougher guy of like, yeah, get off me, or whatever, and don't talk like this.

But it wasn't my natural state. No, it's like a sweater you put on. I was constantly fighting my natural state to try to feel connected, loved, appreciated, whatever. To feel like I could fit into a team, a group, a community, a demographic, something. And in some ways, like I mentioned before, it worked in some ways. I got results by being that way. I achieved athletic success, financial success.

I got the girl, whatever. It worked to an extent until it was never really working because I was always alone inside and always hurting and always feeling like I'm not enough and lacking confidence and all these things. And so when I finally went on the journey of realizing, wow, something is not working. It's working out there, but it's not working in here. What do I need to do? And I started to just open up about all the things I was most ashamed of, which I didn't want anyone to know about. Because I was like, if people really knew who I was, they would not love me.

But that's the lie pain tells you, is that if you share it, you think people will go, whoa. Yeah. But what happens when you share it is people go, you too? It's crazy. It's crazy, isn't it? Yes. I remember when I opened up about being sexually abused, I was like, I did it in a group setting around like 40 or 50 people. It was a workshop, an emotional intelligence workshop that got me to finally open up because I was so down on myself going through a breakup and a business breakup. And I was just like, things aren't working that I was trying anything.

Talking to therapists, coaches, mentors, workshops. And in this one workshop, I opened up about sexual abuse and I ran out of the room because I was like, I'm afraid to just see these people again. I was like, no one's gonna accept me. And one of the most powerful things happened.

All the men in the room came out, followed me about a few minutes later, and they all just put their hand on me and hugged me. And they were like, you're my hero. This happened to me when I was 11. This happened to me when I was 13. And it brought us closer. Like you said, people leaned in. And I think when we start to open up about the things we're most ashamed of, that's when we start to reveal ourselves and people can see true us and they can love us for who we really are and if they're not willing to love us for that then they shouldn't be in our lives probably well there's work they can do too that's so powerful yeah so glad you got to have that experience yeah but it's been it's an ongoing process you know and I think a lot of men are

starting to open up. Because I have these conversations on here all the time. So the men that listen to this show, they know they can't escape. I might Trojan horse them with something they think they're going to get, but then they're hearing this conversation between us, and they start to reflect, oh, how could I change in my life? And that's what I want people to do. And I think that that's such a big deal.

You know, when I left Chicago, I had spoken to the people that I work with, you know, my lawyers and my agents, the people who I was like, this is what's been going on. I'm leaving. This is when I first reported. This is when I second reported. This is when I first reported. This is when I

second reported. This is who I went to. This is who I went to who said they would do something who did nothing. This is when I made it an HR issue. This is when after I reported it to HR. Wow. So you had it documented. Oh, I mean, years. After HR, this is when one of my bosses sat me down and screamed at me and said, do you know what the f**k you've done to me, not to the guy, like just madness. And, and it was really interesting because I worked it out. I got out, I alluded to it with friends who were like, what's going on? You're quitting your job. What's going on? And I will never forget. It took me another year to actually start telling people what happened wow the people close to me to tell

them the story why and well what i think it was and this is what i realized it was about a year later a group of my friends and i we put together this creatives retreat at a place called on-site it's like an amazing no this was like me and my friend Ruthie and my friend Miles who runs Onsite and Kenny and Jed and a whole bunch of people. And we put together a retreat for creatives who often don't have a safe space to share emotional stuff. Wow, how many people showed up?

25 people. Wow. For a week of experiential therapy. It's like actors and artists. And musicians and all kinds of creative people, photographers. And that's pretty cool. We took over this amazing retreat place and we went and after onsite, we spent a group of us spent a day in Nashville together because it's outside of Nashville. We spent a day in Nashville together before we flew home. And I'll never forget. I was sitting on the couch

with my buddy, Kenny, who's been one of my best And I'll never forget, I was sitting on the couch with my buddy Kenny, who's been one of my best friends for, I mean, I've been saying 10 years probably for many years, so longer. And we were sharing some things and I finally detailed to him what I went through in Chicago. And he just sat there and listened with tears streaming down his face. And I started crying and he was crying and I just like there and listened with tears streaming down his face. And I started crying, and he was crying, and I just unloaded it. And at the end of the conversation, he grabbed my hand, and he said, not to make this about me, but why didn't you tell me?

I would have flown there. I would have been there. I would have come to work with you. Your best friend, one of your best friends. why didn't you ever tell me or any of us? And in that moment I was so clear cause I'd been in this like very raw, safe space for a week and we'd been doing all this work and, and it came out of me. Like it came through me. It came from inside of me. It wasn't a thought. It was just the truth. And I said, because if I had ever told any of you what was happening, it would have made it true. Wow. Because I was in a place, I was at work where everybody saw it happening and nobody cared or people were too scared to do something or whatever.

Everybody made excuses. Everybody just needed to get the job done. And so I was in a place that was rejecting my experience. And if I had ever built a bridge between this reality and my friends at home who know the truth, who know me, who are my defenders, my protectors, who I am a defender of and a protector of, if I had told any of those people, if I had told my parents, this like twilight zone would have been impossible to go back to. Right. It'd be fully true now. And to build that bridge, to cross the chasm of this is the environment where in its complication, bad, bad behavior is tolerated to this is the environment where people tell you

that never should you be subjected to said bad behavior to cross the ravine. I don't, I don't think I knew how to do that. And I was physically removed from this and physically in this place. And so there was no way, you know, the body, when you're going through trauma does all kinds of crazy to protect you. There was no way my body was going to allow for that revelation, for that. And it was really interesting. I guess I share that only to say I know what you went through.

Because when you finally say it, it's like every bone in your body gets broken. And it also feels like a thousand pound weighted vest gets taken off your back. It feels like freedom. Like you've been completely remade and you're free and it's crazy. And it's been interesting because, you know, I quit at the end of April of whatever, 2017, I guess. Two years ago. And then in July, me too broke and Harvey broke and the whole industry started changing. And I was like, well, you guys got so lucky.

Yeah, because you left right before, yeah. But the interesting thing about it was when I would see people go, well, why is this person telling their story now? Why is, it's like because now is when they feel safe. They can be free. Now is when they need to get it out of their body. The reason that people tell their stories two years and five years and 10 years and 20 years later is because the story is like a tumor. And the only way to cut it out is to speak it. The only way to get it out of your body is to speak it. And so you spoke it and you began to free yourself.

And isn't it interesting how many other people you freed? It's crazy. Like the people who reached out to me and who, by the way, are still reaching out to me saying, hey, can I talk to you about this thing that happened to me? Can you give me advice on that? It's a whole. It's crazy. It's still the most downloaded link on my website.

Wow. Out of 800 something episodes. When you first shared with your listeners. Yeah, I shared it like five, five and a half years ago or something. And people find it shared every day. We get messages, essays from men who open up and women, but from men who are like, I listened to this and this happened to me. And they share their whole stories and our team will read them and just like,

wow, this is crazy. Because it's one in four, not to go on sexual abuse stats, but one in four women have been sexually abused, one in six men. The challenge, I'm not saying something's better or not, but the challenge is there's never really been a place for men to feel safe to share. And I believe one of my the is like when Me Too was happening and still is happening, but when it was first starting to happen, I think that was around the same time as like the Vegas shooting, Charlottesville.

Wasn't all this happening like around the same time, like in the same year? Yeah, it was a crazy year. Crazy year. All these shootings were happening, these killings, school stuff shootings, I was just like, the common denominator of a lot of these things were men who never were able to express themselves emotionally. It was a common denominator. They had something that happened to them, either a big trauma or little traumas that happened over time, but yet they never verbally communicated their pain. Or maybe they never felt heard. And a lot of it was these men who were just angry. And I feel like they never were able to heal their hearts. And if men, I believe,

were able to heal their hearts, there would be a lot less pain caused in the world. But I feel like men don't feel safe. I can relate in a sense because when I would get angry, I would want to fight someone. I wasn't trying to look for a gun, but I'd be like, I want to push someone. I want to scream at someone. I want to find a guy in like rough house or something. Well, and it's interesting because when you look at the compounding facts of that truth, which is that men have been taught that all of their emotions except for anger are bad and not masculine. So anger becomes outsized, which is a huge problem. And when you see a culture with outsized anger and rage in its men and then you look at a culture that has such systemic violence against the

oppressed and you see those angry men then being radicalized like what's happening with white supremacy in our country is no different than what happens with isis overseas like no different we are radicalizing people and turning them into insane vigilante killers. And we are, we are, we are telling people that rather than the system that is oppressive to them and all people, that it's the people who are the most oppressed in the system who are to blame for their anger and their oppression. It's the most backwards, crazy thing. And you know, you see it in the last week i mean with dayton with el paso with the four young men who've been arrested with essential like arsenals

in their homes planning other mass shootings this week alone crazy it's crazy we have a problem and we we need such a readjustment of how we share and how we welcome sharing it's the welcoming of it because if someone maybe these men have tried to say something at some point like i'm scared but they've just been shot down over and over by parents or peers or whatever it is again i'm not like i'm not validating of them. I'm not saying anything they've done is okay. But it's like if they had the ability to share, I don't think they would do these acts. I think they would be able to heal and they wouldn't have to be so tight and so angry

to explode on other people this way. That's just my personal thesis because I know the power of sharing and how much peace it brought me and freedom it brought me. Did sharing your story help you diffuse that short fuse anger? Yes. Big time. I mean, listen, I still am not a perfect human being. I'm reactive and I get angry at times and I react, but I'm so quick to recognize, okay, I'm coming from a place of like a trigger of abuse or whatever. This is not okay. Who do I want to be? And I'm so much quicker. I was, okay, I'm coming from a place of a trigger of abuse or whatever. This is not okay.

Who do I want to be? And I'm so much quicker. I mean, talk to Tiffany. Just in four years of seeing me and my team and my friends and everyone, I think we're all reactive at some level. But that's why I have a routine where I work out in the morning. I meditate. I focus on just surrounding myself with a positive environment. I remember my whole life, I could never sleep at night.

It would take me about an hour, two hours to fall asleep. And I never knew why. I was just like, I guess I'm just thinking and wired and this is who I am. After I shared, I could sleep within five, ten minutes. And I was always jealous of people who could fall asleep right away. I was like, how do you do that? And now it's like I can pass out in five, ten minutes every night. I just feel peace. That's great. It's crazy. So I feel like if we could accept sharing for men, I don't know. I don't have all the answers, but I feel like that would help a lot.

Well, I feel like if we offered men a space to share and also if we didn't denigrate women's sharing, because what's interesting is so many men don't feel like they can share, but in your experience you did, and it's been this wonderful experience for you. Most women, when we share, are denied, squashed, screamed at. We're told that we're making false comments, that we're exaggerating. And so the irony is that for women, we don't actually welcome it either. We tolerate the conversation. We're having me to this me to conversation has a single thing changed.

Is Harvey Weinstein in jail? Does my abuser still have a job? Does every other abuser in Hollywood still have a job? Does that guy on bull still have a job? Does it like it does? It hasn't been substantive at all. A few people maybe don't have jobs, but not everyone. Harvey doesn't have a job, right?

Sure, but he's not in jail. He's a rapist, and he's not in jail. He's on tape assaulting women, and he's not in jail. Yeah, that's crazy. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence that the evidence is overwhelming. The evidence that the president is a racist is overwhelming for decades.

His corporation was taken to court in the 70s for being racist in its housing policies. And people are like, well, I think he might be a little radical, but I don't know if he's a racist. Why are we having this conversation? So what needs to change in order for actual change to happen?

Yes. Why are we- In your opinion. Why are we in the... We get into these circular conversations and people are terrified to act. And that has to change. We have to say no more of this. And it's on every level. I think the disconnect from our reality, who we're trying to be on the screen versus who we are in life is causing so much pain for so many people that it's making us turn away from sane behavior, i.e. the largest glacial melt in history just happened.

The sea is rising. Like scientists last week were freaking out. I don't know if you watched the video. Like an entire glacier just melted and it's like a rushing river. It's insane. And they're like, you don't understand. This is going to raise the oceans of the video. Like an entire glacier just melted and it's like a rushing river. It's insane. And they're like, you don't understand.

This is going to raise the oceans of the world. Like the temperature is going to get colder, hotter, happening and everything is crazy. And all the fish are dying. And like an article just came out that we are causing this, this crazy toxic reaction in all of our pollinators, bees,

butterflies, all these insects are dying in droves in America because we are using formerly banned pesticides, which the Trump administration allowed to come back into circulation. And like, everything's about to die. And people are like, both sides to science. It's like, there's no both sides. Two plus two equals four. That's a fact. Science is a fact. Warming oceans are a fact. Climate change is a fact. The extinction of bees, fact. But our disconnect from our truth is, it seems to me, on a larger sort of maybe more cerebral scale, making us allergic to the truth and especially to hard truths. So when we go, oh, we're now 11 years out from total climate devastation per the UN global climate report. Again, fact,

we're just not going to do anything. We're all, we're all like ostriching and sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that if we just leave it up to somebody else, it's going to be okay. This is the time for a revolution to save the planet, to save our people, to save each other.

But I think the reason, and I, and there's all sorts of systems at play and dark money at play, and I know, I know, and this is going to sound woo-woo, but like, give me a break. I think the reason that we are ignoring the truth is because we can't tell the truth to ourselves about ourselves. So how do we tell the truth about the world? How do we make change on the scale and level we need to make it? We have the ability. We have all the money. We have all the money for healthcare. We have all the money for schools. We have all the money to get rid of student lunch debt. Students, kids

should not be in debt for eating at school. That just shouldn't happen here. And we have the means to change it. We're just not willing to be radical enough to change the system to make it work for everybody. And this great irony that, you know, folks like you with a successful podcast or me, someone who's been on TV, like, you know, you said something earlier, not ever going to hate on, um, you know, a weekly paycheck from a show, but I've also like never been on one of those big, big hit shows. Like there's some people who make crazy money and even the people in my industry who make crazy money. I'm like, you get it, honey, all the way to the bank. I'm so proud of them. But like the fact that any of us, anyone in the world of like entertainment or media could be called the elite

by the anonymous billionaire class. Crazy. By these people who own islands and airplanes and super yachts and who make billions a year just in interest on their money that they're saying you and I are out of touch and elite. And I'm like, do you know where I work? I hang out on sets with drivers, construction dudes, camera guys. The reason I'm an advocate for healthcare for all and unions is because like, all my homies are union workers. I don't do the private jets and the thing and the, and, and

the fact that the real elite control politics, control environmental legislation, that should scare us. That should make us want to get right with ourselves so that we can go out and fight to get right with the world. I believe that we have the power to do it, but we have to look at systems and we can't look at systems unless we look at the systems we live in. Yeah, that's true. It seems like there's so many things that are happening that need to change. Yeah, it's a lot. Environment, politics, masculinity,

all these different areas of the world, right? The bees, everything's dying. We're all, you know, there's a lot of different things we need to change. How do we know what to take on first? What is most important? What gets the most money, time, attention? Well, here's the thing that I think

is all these systems, our world is connected like a body. There's so many systems in the human body and they all need each other to function. And that's what the world is like. And that's what advocacy is like. And I know that it can sound intense, but I actually, I am on fire with the urgency, but I am hopeful because I know people, I know us, fire with the urgency, but I am hopeful because I know people. I know us. I know what we're capable of. I know how good we are. I know that we can eradicate all of this darkness. And I think that we have to remember that it's a relay race and we pass the baton to each other, but we run as a team. And so where does your sacred rage come from? What to you feels like a sacred duty? The thing that you would get up in the morning to fight for?

Do that. And if for you that's honeybees, do that. And if for you that's women's rights, do that. And if for you that's eradicating toxic masculinity, do that. And if for someone listening it's voter suppression in states like Georgia, attack that. And if for someone listening, it's voter suppression in states like Georgia, attack that. We need everybody to be all in on something. Not everybody has to do everything, but we need everybody to be all in on something. So where does your sacred rage come from? Because that's a fire that doesn't ever run out. And then you're like, I'm in for that fight.

I'm volunteering for that cause. I'm showing up at that march. And it will be the greatest thing you do that week, every week, forever. Focus on one thing that you care about the most. It takes all of us. Yeah, it's true. Because it can seem daunting to be like, well, I don't even know what to do. I'm just trying to figure out how to pay my bills and take care of, take care of my family and I don't have time and I'm stressed.

It doesn't take that much time. It doesn't take as much time as everybody thinks it does. Can you give an hour a week? Can you give an afternoon on a Sunday? Because for me, you know, I grew up in a multi-faith household or multi-faith family. And that led me down the path of exploring all of these other religions and looking at through lines and looking at things. And for me, when people say like,

what's your house of worship nature, what feels like church showing up. So when I go to the city council meeting, when I go to the March, when I show up at the rally, that to me, that's divinity showing up for other people. Wow. It's powerful. And nature, this planet, like we should all worship at her feet. And I think that if we could look at advocacy that way at this is, this is sacred. He's showing up for this, even if it's an hour on a Sunday. It's true. Or an hour on a Saturday morning or a Wednesday night town hall. Just do something.

Your showing up, even in a way that you might think is a little, could be the ripple effect that shakes the world. Yeah, and if everyone shows up a little, it'll start to make a ripple for sure. I'm curious, what's your opinion, what's your thoughts about white men right now? What should white men, because I feel like there's a lot of attention about white men are doing a lot of bad things. What can I do as a white man and other white men to be part of the solution as opposed to always in the headlines of another white man shooting this for another person. Another politician is white old man doing this, hurting us. So how can, you know, I try to do the best I can.

I mean, don't be Mitch McConnell. That's first. Okay. But I mean, it's like, I almost feel like there's a target, you know, again, my life's amazing, right? I'm not going to say nothing. I'm like privileged. I work my butt off. I feel very fortunate, but there's also like everything that I feel like I'm hearing from other kind of like successful white men. They're like, I feel like there's a target on my back. I can't say anything off. I can't do this. I'm not saying like, oh, poor the white man or anything.

I'm just saying like, what can we do to be more of a solution? Right. So here's what I think is really important. Yeah. be more of a solution. Right. And in general is really important. Yeah. I think it's really important that we learn how to create a little bit of distance between our personal identity and a system. So for example, I had a very in-depth conversation with a friend of mine last night. She's a fellow activist. She's an advocate. She's amazing. We were at this group rally together last weekend and we decided to have a little deep dive. And she is a woman of color and was asking me

perspective questions over dinner last night about whiteness and about what it's like to be the advocate that I am and also to fall into the demographic of white women, which overly voted someone like Trump into office and thus voted against as a demographic, our own interests. I obviously didn't vote for him, but you know, nobody's shocked by that. Um, and so I was saying to her and we had talked about a lot of what you and I have touched on, but she and I had the in-depth detail conversation and she was very shaken by hearing about my experiences in the workplace as a woman in entertainment, like very upset. And I said, so I'll use myself as the example. I said,

I understand what a system of a white heteronormative patriarchy is doing to the world. It has nothing for me as a white woman. And it also isn't doing anything good for white men. But I said, I understand I have the privilege of exposure in the circles that I run in, in the town halls that I sit in, with the women that I work with, with the good men that I work with, with having such a beautifully intersectional community and a diverse community and a queer community and a straight community and the whole thing. But like people who really care about looking at a system. And I said, there's a lot of people

who've been in my position who look like me, who haven't had exposure to the intricacies of the system, who might, if they'd been through what I'd been through, sit here and go, I'm a survivor of this. I've been through this. I've lost family this way. These are all the things I've seen. This is all the trauma I've had. You're going to tell me I have privilege. And I understand that. I understand how a person says, I've dealt with all this super hard stuff. What do you mean? Where's my privilege? But the privilege that you might not even be aware you experience is based on this system that identifies you as being proximal to it.

So I experience privilege as a white woman. I experience oppression as a woman, but I do not experience the level of oppression that my sisters of color experience. And it doesn't harm me, and it doesn't take away from my negative experiences or my positive experiences or my trauma or my success or my anything to acknowledge that. And then to look at the system,

to look at the system that created, even after abolition, that created financial barriers for people of color that have had generational impacting lasting effects. So when we're having modern day conversations about reparations and people are going, what are you talking about? We have nothing to do with slavery. But you do because the system has built mechanisms to continue to oppress both financially, in healthcare, in every single way, these communities, and you've never been oppressed that way. When people say, well, I've never been on welfare, do you write

off a percentage of your mortgage? Because if you do, that's welfare. You are benefiting from socialism that is not extended to people who don't look like you. These are things that are really important for people to understand. And so for you as a white male, I think it's really important for you to say, okay, who am I? What's my good? What's my bad? What do I believe is in integrity? And where you say, I've worked really hard and you have, you've built all of this, but

you didn't have the barriers that a man who is black would have had trying to start a company. You don't have the barriers that I, as a female founder, have trying to raise funding when a man can go in, and this is proven study, you can look it up, with the same idea, the same idea for a startup. And the men get investment and the women don't. Same deck, same everything. So it doesn't hurt you to acknowledge that, but what it can do is motivate you to pay forward your privilege. You can say, I didn't have a barrier to entry to financing. I'm lucky.

Okay, what am I gonna do with the profits my company makes? Who am I gonna hire? How am I gonna advocate? Who am I gonna invite to my conference? What conversations am I gonna have on my podcast? How am I going to advocate? Who am I going to invite to my conference? What conversations am I going to have on my podcast? How am I going to spend my privilege? And I think if, if more white men were thinking about that and more white men were willing to look at the system, because by the way, Mitch McConnell and all his old patriarchal supremacist bros who are doing what they're doing, they're damaging the future for us.

He's going to die. You and I are going to be alive and our kids are going to suffer. We're starting to suffer. What's going to happen to our children because of what's being done in this administration and in the last four years of stonewalling during Obama's end of his administration? The impacts on our children will be catastrophic. And I'm angry about that. I see the impacts on the city of LA from Reagan eradicating mental health hospitals in America. There is a direct correlation and people are suffering and dying because somebody decided that Americans were not worth supporting financially. And that is wrong. Americans were not worth supporting financially, and that is wrong. And if we start to look at generational effects of a system, you can realize it isn't helping you either. Yes, you have privilege because you have proximity to that power, but it isn't helping you either.

What's going to happen to your children? So what can I do as a white man besides all those? I mean, I feel like I'm doing the best I can every day to bring on people of different diversity and colors and backgrounds and opinions. It's not just like the white man success show. It's like, who can I give a platform to, to share their wisdom and experience? And I'm sure there's many more things I could do. Sure. I think it's really important to start looking at how we vote for our community and not in our own interests because our own interests serve us in the short term. And I really wish that more successful white men weren't voting for a tax bracket and were voting for their children's futures. Because you know what?

I can say you should be voting for me and the women in your lives. Access to things like birth control and women's reproductive care are men's issues too. Absolutely. And a lot of men would be like, well, you know, but I, but I vote for this.

Okay. So stop doing that. How would you vote for your kid? What future do you want for your kid? The best for them. Exactly. So I need for men to start showing up and not just voting in the short term. I need for white men to say,

I want to be the anti-Mitch McConnell. I want to be the anti-Donald Trump. Figure out how you're going to do that. Who are you going to vote for? Who are you going to give money to? Are you going to give money to Jamie who's running against McConnell? Are you going to give money to Stacey Abrams? Are you going to support initiatives in the city of LA? Will you come to the next Black Lives Matter meeting on a Sunday night? What are you going to do that takes you out of your comfort zone a little bit and puts you into not just understanding the system needs to change, but actively changing it? And people can't be single issue voters anymore. You just can't. You can't tell me that your taxes or, or this thing that was told to you in whatever place, you know,

you worship or you gather is more important than the lives of your fellow community members. And I've heard white guys be like, Oh, well, you know, look at all the shit. Lena Waithe is running a TV empire.

Things are changing. I'm like, what? One, one, one amazing, talented, queer,

black executive producer means everything is solved for you? No. Like the people who go, well, Oprah's a billionaire. I'm like, honestly, I can't have this conversation. No, we need to look at how to make our society more equitable for everybody. And we need to stop acting like the government saying we can't pay for healthcare,

but then giving a $600 billion surplus to the military makes any sense. And by the way, that money isn't going to our men and women in uniform, who I care deeply for. That money is going to like contracts for their rich bros at Halliburton to make even more money. And I'm over it. And you should be too. And we have to start to vote that way.

We have to start to advocate that way. I want white men in the world when they ask, how can I make a change to start showing up to where the groups of black women organizers are working in their communities and following their lead. That's what I want. I think that's powerful. I'm very well connected in this community and I've never been invited, nor do I know where to go. You and I can make a resource list. I'll invite you to all the things. I think there's a lot of men who are like, sure, I'd love to

but no one ever talks to me. No one ever invites me to these things. No one ever tells me where to look at. It requires a bit of research. They need to be like, so what are the three accounts on Instagram, since everyone's there, that people should follow to learn more about all this stuff that you're talking about? Either three people or a CNN or just a media account.

Or what are three accounts that you think everyone should be following just to have a general basic knowledge of all the challenges that are happening and so that they can at least be semi-educated. I think that if you want to get educated on what's happening in communities of color and how to be a supportive ally, follow, sure, but also follow Brittany Packnett. Brittany Packnett. Brittany Packnett is one of the most incredible women that I know and my teacher and my sister on all things. Packnett. and my teacher and my sister on all things. Pack net.

Mm-hmm. Cool. I would follow mom's demand action if you want to understand how to fight this crisis that we are having in our country. And it is a crisis. What's going on with guns? And I say this, by the way, I got my first gun when I was 12.

Like, I'm a longtime gun owner. A shotgun of the young age. Yeah, people are like, oh, you're one of those Hollywood liberals who doesn't know anything. And I'm like, you want to go to the range with me? Because I promise I will. Yeah. I had a conversation with David and a bunch of the Parkland kids about how three days before that shooting, I was at the range with my buddies that are Green Berets shooting AR-15s.

I don't need to take that gun home. Nobody needs to take that gun home. And if you need an AR or any kind of long gun to hunt, you really need to get back and do more target practice. Cause like, homie, you're bad. Come on. Like we all know that this is true. So there needs to be a rational sense of what we're doing.

And mom's demand is like, listen, you want to talk about protecting your home? Fine. You don't need an arsenal to do that. This is not a video game. There is no zombie apocalypse coming, and if we're really having a conversation about like,

well, we're supposed to be able to defend ourselves against the military. Can you get a predator drone on the internet? Because game over. It's over. Civilians will never have tanks or aircraft carriers or whatever. Stop.

We have to stop stop we have to stop we have to get sane about the debate so follow mom's demand um oh my gosh only three this is so hard um you don't want to overwhelm people too much no i know give them a taste i know you're right um i post a lot of news every day so they can follow you follow me yeah and then i will point you to all the people to follow. Somebody actually just sent me the nicest comment and was like, I follow all the accounts you post and I've learned so much. And I thought, great, if I'm your central news source,

let's do this. Also, I think NowThis is a really helpful organization for a lot of people because they take whatever issue is at hand and they break it down into a, you know, two to five minute video that really explains and gives you an overview. And then you can go from there, uh,

and follow all sorts of people. So yeah, those are good accounts. I'll check them. I'll check them out. I'm already following you. So, and now this,

but Brittany Packard, Brittany Pack net, her Instagram handle is miss pack. Yeti M S P A C K E T T I. Um, Brittany Packert. Brittany Packnet. Pack-net. Her Instagram handle is MissPackYeti, M-S-P-A-C-K-E-T-T-I. Oh, no. P-A-C-K-Y-E-T-T-I. Sorry. She used to be a teacher, and her kids, one of her students couldn't say Packnet, and

she would call her MissPackYeti. And so it's been her Instagram handle forever, and it makes me very irrationally emotional. It's not my child, but I think it's very cute Instagram handle forever and it makes me like very irrationally emotional like it's not my child but I think it's very cute yeah she will awaken you to a lot of important things hey and I'm going to make the call to women and people with any issues that they have a passion for to also start inviting people

that they normally don't think would come yeah the people you think are against you may not be people that you're fighting against there's a probably a big group of people in that uh generalization that would be open to learning more yeah and i would challenge you to because no one ever invites me to anything. And I'm advocating for stuff. But if I may, also, yes, we should be reaching out. And what I would ask of you and so many of your listeners is text me and be like, hey, you're doing all this stuff. I think it's really interesting. Can I come?

Yeah. Because you're right. I didn't think to text you, but also. I'm not saying you're not going to text a thousand men who don't know it. No, no, but I think it's really important. And I think, you know, anytime you are curious, reach out to somebody and say, can I join?

And the really amazing thing is you can tailor your social media life to help show you. So, you know, as much as we all hate the Instagram algorithm because it puts us in this vacuum of people who only think like us, if you cultivate who you follow, if you follow advocates, activists, groups, your explore page will become more of those things. Of course. Yeah. People are probably not even aware of it because they never see it.

Yeah. So we can be our own teachers too. But course, yeah. People are probably not even aware of it because they never see it. Yeah, so we can be our own teachers too. But yeah, we should invite and we should ask to be invited. Because sometimes I feel like these, at least the perception, when you see people posting stuff online, you see the same people who are passionate

about the cause together talking about it together to their audiences as opposed to like, hey, we want to invite you and not making people wrong. I think that's together to their audiences as opposed to like, Hey, we want to invite you. And like, and not making people wrong. I think that's one thing. It's like welcome people and not make them wrong and really make it an experience because most people aren't going to think about it. Right. Well, they're not going to think about it. Yeah. And that's one of the things when obviously you have your head and heart in the right place. But when you asked me a question, like what are white guys supposed to do? It's why I try to get really clear on separating you, Louis, the individual from the system.

Because I need you to see the system. I need you to see it. And then each of us can see the ways in which we have either unconsciously or passively participated in it because we all have. And then we can figure out how to undo it because really what we should do is take all these building blocks and take a lot of them apart and build something newer and bigger and better for everybody. That's it. We don't, not one person wins unless we all win. Yeah. You know, it's about all of us. So I believe that there's so much I want to ask you about your personal life, not in terms of like relationships or stuff, but I want to ask a few questions.

Okay. We've been going for a while and I want to respect your time, but I'm curious about. No, I'm like, I love a long conversation. I'm curious, who was the most influential person in your life growing up? And what was that lesson that still sticks with you today that they taught you, the lesson they taught you? The most influential person in my life growing up i mean

my mom was incredibly incredibly influential um which feels like an easy answer but i'll give you a what was the lesson she taught you she taught me so much about education, its importance, about independence, you know, and I think that her teaching and encouragement really were things that helped me strive. helped me strive, you know, not, uh, to not sit back, to not be passive, to not hold back. Um, Use your voice. Yeah. And, and then truly two of my favorite teachers, my English professor in high school, Peter Goss, absolutely helped shape my critical thinking mind and the way that I analyze language and the way that I feel things that I intake. And then my favorite professor in college, Christopher Smith at USC, still in the communications department. If you're lucky enough to be his student and you've ever slept through one of his classes, just imagine me smacking you on the back of the head. And Professor Smith was the first person who really sat me down and said,

you have a mind that is rare. Wow. And the way that you analyze things has meaning. And he said, when you want to write your first book, come talk to me. And I was like, what? Wow. Have you written the book yet?

No. What are you waiting for? But we saw each other. We bumped into each other literally in a restaurant in LA last year, and we both burst into tears. And everybody was like, what's going on? So we've been emailing, and yeah, we're gonna, we're going to get together soon. And I'll probably ask him some questions about that,

but you know, two, two incredible influences in my life and, and who were people who championed my intellect and my empathy and perspective and taught me that those things were really valuable. And as much obviously as my mom is probably the most influential person in my young life, we all do this weird thing with the people who are close to us where you're like, well, you have to think that you have to say I'm smart or I'm this or I'm that because you're my mom or you're my best friend or whatever. So when it's a person who doesn't owe it to you, but who shows you that you earn it, I think it's incredibly powerful. And it's also not lost on me that these are two of the most influential men in my life and men who always made me feel safe and who have been

incredible allies. That's cool. You know, I, I do try to be really conscientious when I have conversations about what women need and deserve to be thankful to the allies, the male allies in my life. Because they matter. And yeah, these two guys were like two of the best. That's cool. Yeah. Imagine it's your last day many years from now. You're as old as you want to be. You can pick the day, the year,

whatever it is, 100, 200, doesn't matter, right? What's the thing that you will regret the most having not done? If it's your last day and you didn't do one thing, what would that thing be? I want to have done the things. Well, imagine you're going to create it, but what's the thing that if you didn't do, you'd be like, man, that's my biggest regret that I didn't do this. It could be small. It could be a big thing. It could be anywhere in between. That's so hard because when I envision where I will be, the things that matter are done.

So what's the thing that matters the most that if it wasn't done, you'd regret that you didn't get it done? There's sort of a tie. I think, to me, family is so important. So if I... Having a family a family yeah and my family i mean and and you know the family that i've built with my friends and you know the world's family yeah like the auntie that i am to so many of my friends kids and like my friend's little girl can't say my name yet and she calls me auntia auntia and it like ruins me i like, do you know that you're just saying aunt, aunt?

Like you're saying aunt in English and aunt in Spanish and like my life is destroyed by the cuteness. But yeah. So what about family would you regret? I just think that if I didn't prioritize family for myself in the way that I prioritize it in my community, that would be hard. Ooh, interesting. But I plan to, so not super worried about it.

And I think that if I didn't, I'm like, would I regret it if I didn't write the book? Probably, probably. Um, would I regret it if in, you know, I feel like I don't feel like I've lived in years. I feel like I've lived in phases, seasons. Yeah. And so I'm in this phase that I really like, but I think like two or three phases ahead, I'll probably run for office just because I'll have made the shows and movies I want to make and told the stories I wanted to tell and, and worked in, you know, the administrations I'm on to making sure that my next generations are doing what it is they want to do for their story and their world, that it'll be time for me to take everything that I've learned and just be full-time public service. Right. That's powerful. I think if I didn't do that, it would be weird. You'd be regretting it. But I also don't know what our political system is going to become.

So maybe in 20 years, I'll be like, no, no, no, no, no. I want no part in this. Or maybe they won't need me. They may not need you. Maybe we'll have done such good work in the next phase of the revolution that- You can be a mom and do whatever you want. Yeah, who knows? We'll see.

Exactly. This question is called the three truths. Okay. I, who knows? We'll see. Exactly. This question is called The Three Truths. Okay. I ask this to everyone at the end. Okay. So we're imagining it's our last day still. Yeah. 100, 200 years from now, whatever year you want to be your last physical day on earth.

Yeah. You've been in office. You've written the book or books. You've done every story you can imagine. Okay. You've written them, produced them, acted, whatever. You've done it all. You have no regrets. You've moved the world the way you want to do it. You have no more regrets. You've done it all that you've set your mind out to do. You've got the incredible family. You've prioritized. You've done it all. You look back and you're

like, I have no regrets. But for whatever reason, this is a hypothetical, you've got to take everything with you. So no one has access to any of the information that you've shared in the world anymore. Your books, your content, your videos, your stories, all the TV shows you did as a teenager, all of them gone, right? I mean, I've worn some very wrong things

on some red carpets. I'd like some of those things to not be accessible anymore. Those would be gone too. Okay, great. Everything's gone. I'm like, some of these things could go. I would be really happy. Everything's gone.

So imagine it's all gone. It's your last day and you have a piece of paper and a pen and you get to write down three things you know to be true about life that you would leave behind to the world, to humanity, as your final kind of three truths to the world. These would be lessons that you learned that you want people to have, kind of like your principles for all of us. What would you say are your three truths? It takes every single one of us and every single one of us is worthy.

Decisions are only made from two places, love or fear. So if you do the work to really break down where you're coming from, make sure you're always coming from love. And the thing I guess that I'd want to share again, because, you know, yeah, I'm 16 years into like, I was a kid in this business. Like everything I've ever said is on the internet. And the thing that has resonated the most and been the most shaping for people that I wouldn't want to be lost is the thing I know to be the most true, which is you are allowed to be both a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously. Oh, that's good. That's great.

That's the one I'd want to leave. Amen to that. Yeah. So we don't have to be perfect all the time? No. I like it. I don't think I've heard that. Yeah. So we don't have to be perfect all the time? No. I like it. I don't think I've heard that one before. I've heard that, but I don't think I've heard that as a truth from anyone we've asked.

That last one. That's powerful. That's my thing. What is it you wish more people knew about you that they don't know? You have a lot of information out there. You're an advocate about a lot of things. But what's something maybe you're proud of that maybe people don't know? You're very, you have a lot of information out there. You're, you're advocate about a lot of things, but what's something you're, maybe you're proud of that maybe people don't know about or something that a lot of people don't know? Um, Hmm. I mean, I think that I really wish that working in the entertainment industry didn't bring my intellect into question

all of the time. Because anybody who sits down with me goes, oh, wow. Yeah. You analyze this? You're not just an actor. Okay. And this whole thing of like, shut up and stick to acting. I'm like, stick to bank telling. What do you do?

I don't know. Right. I wish there was just a little less kind of nastiness or reductive assumption made. That would be nice. Yeah. But I don't know. I mean, there's a lot that I do anonymously because I don't need people to know. I don't need the credit.

I just really want to always be the best advocate I can be and help to call people in and do the work I've been asked to do by the people who I value in my life. And I don't know. I do just wish that in general, women who take up space in the public sphere were respected for who they are rather than constantly attacked that would be really nice um also i really wish people would use google and like know that i am not related to the bush family my dad is an immigrant my mom is first gen american i was i was talking about the a really upsetting thing a stat was published this week that the Walton family profited $56.2 billion on Walmart last year in 2018

and that the American taxpayers ponied up $6.2 billion in tax money to subsidize housing, healthcare, food stamps, etc. for Walmart employees because they're not paid living wages and they're not given full healthcare benefits. And I said, this is a problem. Like, can't you be happy with 30 billion instead of 60? I don't understand. Why are you not taking care of your people? Why do

we allow this in this country? There's a problem that the super wealthy are allowed to operate this way. And like, I mean, and maybe they're all Russian bots who knows, but the number of people who were like hilarious, like your dynasty family, what do you know? You're from a billionaire. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Like I had to help my dad study for his citizenship test when I was 12. And at least if you want to insult me, please do it with something that could be even in the realm of factual, because like, I've also been on TV for so long. Like maybe you should answer this question for yourself by now. Um, you know, just like silly things where I'm like, we still have to have this debate. Like, no, I'm not, I'm not related to that. That's funny. Um, final couple

of questions, but I, you've got a podcast coming out. Yeah. Tell me about the podcast. Is it more of this? Is it, what is it? Yeah, it's more of this. So, so many people over the years have said, do a column, do a podcast, do something. Take the writing and the advocacy and the ideas about self-care and the journey and evolution and whatever into a bigger space.

Because I write these essays on Instagram. Yes, they're great. That's only as long as it's allowed to be. And I think for a while, maybe I was a little intimidated to do that or maybe a little stuck in the imposter syndrome feedback loop or something. But coming on so many great podcasts and then going and doing so many public speaking engagements, I went,

Oh, this really resonates with people. And that quote that I gave to you, a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously has really resonated with people and it has traveled the world and it's, it's taken on a life of its own. And I thought so many of us are stuck in this space where we look through the screen and we think everybody

else has it figured out. Everybody else is in the masterpiece and I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm the one who's struggling. And I thought, you know, we're all a work in progress. And so that's the podcast. It's called work in progress. It is, uh, an interview series and it's really Frank. Obviously I know you're shocked. Um, sometimes it's very funny and it's professional and personal and a little historical with people and it's, it's deep and it's sweet and it's political sometimes. I know you're shocked again, but not all the time. And it, and it really just has created a space to have thought provoking conversations, to look at systems, to look at justice, to look at comedy. With Whitney Cummings,

we were looking at sex robots, like, you know, they're the same thing. Like it's great. It's crazy and fun. And, um, and I'm very, I'm just very excited about it. That's amazing.

Yeah. They can get it everywhere. Apple, Spotify. Yeah. Work in progress. Is it, are you posting about it on Instagram right now too?

Not yet. We haven't announced it yet, but when this comes out, it'll be out. Exactly. So work in progress. Make sure you guys download it. When this comes out, it'll be out. Exactly. So work in progress. Make sure you guys download it when this comes out. Go subscribe

right now when you listen to this. And send a DM to Sophia. Screenshot it. Let her know you're listening and share your thoughts. Yeah, I would love that. I love people's feedback. Last year, I went on Dax's podcast and we had a great chat it's great and like

the feedback from people people there's something about podcasts people are so open and frank and it was very special yeah so i'm excited amazing i'm excited for you i'm excited to do it welcome to the community thank you the podcast i know i finally was like okay all right and now i'm loving it and it's like it's my favorite project i've ever worked on it's amazing to the community. Thank you. The podcast. I know. I finally was like, okay, all right. And now I'm loving it and it's my favorite project I've ever worked on. It's amazing. I'm excited for you.

We support you. Work in progress. Make sure to check it out. Follow Sophia at Sophia Bush everywhere. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you one more time.

Because I acknowledged you in the beginning, but I don't know you that well. And I feel like I got to know you a lot better now. And I feel like I got to know you a lot better now. And I really love your heart and your intentions. And again, I want to just reiterate, you could be doing a lot of things,

just like looking for the bigger gig and putting up with certain things that you don't agree with because of the paycheck or because of the fame or credibility or whatever. And I think it's really cool that you do what you do and you continue to stand for so many people who maybe don't have the opportunity to stand as high as you could in this moment. And the fact that you care so deeply about humanity, about the environment, about these issues, I think is really important. And I think a lot of people can learn a lot from you and I'm inspired by you. So I appreciate you. I acknowledge you and thank you for all that you do

for all of us. It means, it means a lot to so many. So if you haven't heard it enough yet, I really appreciate your heart. It's powerful. Yeah. That means a lot. Of course. I do really appreciate that. Of course. Yeah. It's very, it's very kind when someone offers you a mirror in that way. Yeah. And we don't, we don't get to look in them all that often. You know, a lot of the world is overwhelming and stressful and intense. And so I, I appreciate like a graceful, vulnerable moment. Of course. Yeah. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? moment of course of course yeah final question what's your definition of greatness um just a casual simple little question definition of greatness yikes your own personal definition um integrity i think greatness requires that we show up and stand up and speak up because

success accolades, but like none of it really makes anybody happier. I get that it makes your life easier and that's clear, but what does it mean? Where does the purpose come from? I think, I think the purpose comes from standing with and for others and making sure that you're in your integrity. And when you're not, like you said earlier,

you got to own it and know that it doesn't make you a bad person, but know that you're capable of better. Absolutely. And then try to do better. That's it. Sophia, you're the best. Thank you so much. Thank you. Amazing. Appreciate it. Oh, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I love diving deep. I love talking about the challenging topics. I love getting uncomfortable and I'm so grateful for all the work and the inspiration that Sophia brings to the world. Make sure to follow Sophia over on Instagram and share this on your Instagram story. Tag her at Sophia Bush. Tag myself, Lewis Howes.

I'm sure she'd love to hear from you over on Instagram stories. And put the link of this podcast over there as well, lewishowes.com slash 851. Or just take a screenshot of this right now on your Apple podcast player, on Spotify, wherever you're listening to this, and share it on your Instagram story, on Twitter, on social media, and text one friend today. You can be a champion. You can be a hero in someone's life today if you send them this link

and ask them, what do you think about this? What's your biggest takeaway? Engage with someone in your life where you can start a conversation, where you can inspire them to grow with you. Keep your friends, your family accountable. That's what this is all about. So share it with one friend over a text or a WhatsApp group message, or any way you want to send them a message, send them a message with this link and ask them their thoughts on this interview and send it to them saying, hey, I thought you would enjoy this as well. If this is your first time here, big thank you for being here. Every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we bring you the most

inspirational people in the world to teach you how to unlock your own greatness, to learn the lessons, to figure out how to overcome our challenges, our insecurities, our shame, our lack of understanding of the world, and bring us a better understanding of ourselves to it. If you enjoyed it, leave a review over on Apple Podcast. I don't care if you leave a one-star review, a five-star review. I just want to hear from you. Leave a review.

Click the subscribe button over on Apple Podcast, and let me know what you think. We're always trying to hear from you. So leave a review, click the subscribe button over on Apple Podcast, and let me know what you think. We're always trying to make this better. I want to hear from you. I want to hear from you on who you think we should have in the future. We've got some amazing guests coming up. I'm so excited for you to hear these guests, but go ahead and send me a message over on Instagram. And if you have a direct connection to that individual, someone who's in the top of the world of what they do, someone who is an inspiration to millions of people, someone that has information or a skill set that very few people have, I want to know who they are. Send me a direct message, Lewis Howes over on Instagram. And if you have a direct connection to them, just let me know,

because I would love to hear about who these people are. Again, Eleanor Roosevelt said, remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one. Again, you are a one of a kind. You are a special gift that was brought to this world, that was brought to humanity for a reason. I hope you understand this. And you were born with so much love in your heart, so much purity, love, and kindness in your heart. And we have a long way to go together, you and me, to learn more about this world, to learn more about equality, about humanity, about how we can improve as an individual and as a community, as global citizens. And I hope you continue learning every single week,

whether you're coming to the School of Greatness podcast or you're learning from friends and checking out community events. I hope you continue to grow. I hope you continue to serve others, serve your community, and be of service to yourself. And know that I love you. I'm here for you.

I appreciate you so very much. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Outro Music