The School of Greatness - 854 Dennis Rodman on Emotions, Individuality and Being Great

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

DRESS FOR HAPPINESS. People live their lives trying to find their purpose. They are looking for ways to express their true selves. But many are worried about judgment and the opinions of others. Do you deny your destiny? How can you get on the road to happiness and self-fulfillment? You have to ignore the noise. Be yourself no matter what people say. Take the time to discover what makes you happy. And once you find your happiness, work hard to keep it. Keep moving forward, step by step. When you look back, you’ll be amazed at what you accomplished. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about finding yourself and living life to the fullest with Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman is a five-time NBA Champion, seven-time NBA Rebounding champion, two-time NBA All-star, and trailblazer for the LBGTQ community. He recently released a remarkable ESPN 30 for 30 Documentary about his life and career. Dennis is open about his highs and lows, including his rise from poverty and his struggles with alcoholism. Through it all, he is proud of his accomplishments and hopes that others will learn from his life journey. So get ready to learn how to live life to the fullest on Episode 854. Some Questions I Ask: Was it easy being vulnerable in the NBA? (09:30) How did you stay out all night and still have the energy for practice? (18:45)  What makes you proud? (30:50) Who was the best player you played with or against in the NBA? (29:55)  Who was the first person in your life that you respected and admired? (33:05) What is the biggest lesson you learned in North Korea? (45:25)  When it comes to your mother, what makes you proud? (01:00:50) In this episode you will learn: How he lives with enthusiasm (11:14) How he opened the door for the Gay community (11:20) Why he always does something that makes him happy (14:30) How Dennis feels he is never too old to ask for help (54:17) Plus much more... If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/854 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes.

This is episode number 854 with five-time NBA champion Dennis Rodman. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Grace Jones said, I believe in individuality, that everybody is special, and it's up to

them to find that quality and let it live. I am so pumped about this interview because I just watched a documentary, a 30 for 30 documentary on ESPN titled Dennis Rodman for better or worse. And it was one of the best documentaries I've ever seen on a person's life. It was riveting. It gripped me from the beginning to the end. There was so much dynamics in it. And I highly recommend you check this documentary out. It's available for streaming on ESPN.com right now. And it reveals the crazy life of Dennis Rodman. And if you were around in the 90s, when Dennis Rodman was one of the biggest things in the world, you remember how fascinating his life and interesting

and dynamic his life was. And Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest rebounders ever to play professional basketball. During his time in the NBA, he played for the Detroit Pistons, San Antonio Spurs, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Lakers, and the Dallas Mavericks. And he's a dedicated analyst of the game and a tenacious defender. He led the NBA in rebounding for four consecutive years and helped lead his teams to five NBA championships. However, his career went on. Rodman drew even more attention to his off-court antics.

And again, he was one of the most fascinating humans on the planet back in the 90s when all this was going down. He had so much media coverage, it was crazy. And again, he's got this new documentary that shares his journey and reveals the struggles of one of the most talented and enigmatic stars in the game's history. And in this interview, we talk about how he was able to play so consistently despite all of the emotional stress he was under. He talks about his childhood, how stressful his entire childhood was really until he went away around 20 years old and found a family that he found like he belonged in. We talk about how showing his emotions was empowering for him as a man and an individual. He often cried publicly and in the media, and he was showing his him as a man and an individual. He often cried publicly and in the media,

and he was showing his emotions as a man far early before it was acceptable and seen as okay. We talk about the methods he used to become one of the greatest rebounders of all time and how he visualized this every day. The greatest lesson he learned from his absent father, the power he has found in putting his ego aside and asking for help when he needs it. That and so much more in this riveting

interview. I'm so excited for you to listen to this. Make sure to watch the full video over on YouTube as well because, and he really opens up in an emotional way at different points, especially towards the end. So make sure to stick around to the end to hear everything about how dynamic this individual is. Share it with one friend today. Text a friend to lewishouse.com slash 854 or just copy and paste the link on your podcast app

where you're listening to this and text one friend. Inspire someone today with this message by sending them a message and asking them what they think about this interview. Tag Dennis Rodman over on your Instagram stories while you're listening and at Lewis Howes as well so we can both stay connected to you and hear what you're thinking about during this episode. All right, guys, I'm excited about this. Without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one and only, the iconic Dennis Rodman. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited we've got

the legendary Dennis Rodman in the house. My man, thank you for being here. I appreciate it, sir. Cool, man. Very excited you're here. Just watched the 30 for 30. It's unbelievable. It's so inspiring what you've created with your life, with all the challenges you had to overcome. So congratulations on everything. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun.

It was long, but fun. It was long? Yeah. How long did it take to do the whole documentary? Well, it took me, oh, I think I was 15 hours. 15 hours. One day of doing the whole thing? No, no, no, no, no. 15 hours. 15 hours, one day of doing the whole interview? No, no, no, no, no.

It was like five hours one day. Gotcha, gotcha. Five hours the next day, like that. But to sit there for five hours, to just sit there and talk about, oh, my God, dude. I got brain dead. I'm like, you know, it's like when you're driving and get concrete drunk. Yeah. That's what I got.

I'm like, oh, my God. Tonal vision, like, ugh. It's probably the best 30 for 30 I've seen, and I've seen a lot of them. I've seen a lot, too. I think this is more aimed for the new generation. It's amazing. And the music, the storytelling, you know, it's just so dramatic, and it just pulls you in. It pulls you right in.

It pulls you in to your life and everything that you've overcome because you've overcome so much. It's crazy, man. It's so inspiring. So congrats. I think it relates to a lot of people and contents for us living in that generation for us in the 60s and 70s. And going through those poverty years where I think, you know, like guys like Micah Joe and Scottie Pippen, Julius Irving. The people that was in that genre in the late 60s to the 70s, early 80s, living like that, I think they probably get a good grip

of what was going on within the confinements of the situation. But I think the youth of today couldn't really grasp that unless they actually see it. So basically this 30 for 30 is going gonna really put them in the mix of how the guys like me the work our ass off to get to this point yeah and they don't realize that it wasn't a bed of roses at all trying to get to get to this point you know there's been a lot of highs and a lot of them lows yeah and also I think it's gonna stick gonna hit a lot of kids hard a lot of athletes

hard it's amazing I think it's like to hit a lot of kids hard, a lot of athletes hard, too. It's amazing. I think it's like, it's almost like five years of social media in one hour and a half movie. That's kind of like, if social media was around when you were there, this was like everything, the highlight reels. I keep telling a lot of people, I say, Dennis, what would you have done if social media, Instagram, and all these other outlets was out back in the 90s? I said, well, I'd be a B in there. Yeah, exactly. I'd be a B in there. You would be.

Quick, quick, quick to everything, you know. So thank God and damn it. But maybe you would have blown all the money at the same time. Oh, hey, you're probably right about that. But I was going. Do you think you were ready for that type of fame? Because it was crazy. I mean, everywhere, you were like the biggest icon in the 90s.

It was massive. Yeah, I think I made a joke about me and Michael Jordan that I was more popular than he was for three years. I bet. On the same team. Yeah. The team that he built. But I'm not trying

to be like, have the big head but it's true the fact that I went there and I was doing things that people in sports wasn't doing at the time. You know, I was creating a brand without me knowing it was a f***ing brand. Now people are trying to like, manufacture it based on what you do. Yeah, pretty much.

I was just doing it for fun. You know, I wasn't trying to make money or nothing like that. I think that, you know, once you get in that situation, when you have your head screwed in a certain direction and then all of a sudden you forgot, oh damn, I forgot this part, you know, and you're just going at 90 miles an hour and you really don't pay attention about the money

and pretty much the fame, and just going with the flow. That was me back then. We have something in common. You are Dennis Rodman, but I've been calling myself for seven years the Dennis Rodman of Olympic handball. I'm on the USA National handball team, and I'm kind of like the bruiser of the team.

You know, I don't score all the points, but I've been calling myself that for seven years, so we have something in common. You're the OG, but I've been calling myself that for seven years. So we have something in common. You're the OG, though. The OG there. You're the OG. Handball, really. Handball, handball.

Do you know Olympic handball? It's kind of like water polo, but in a basketball court with no water, if you can visualize that. Well, handball is more like you hit the ball with your hand. There's two sports. Handball where you hit one against the wall. I used to play that at school back in the day. It was in prison. It wasn't that special school.

Nobody did it. They hit that all day, though. That was at school. So that kind of handball right there with a glove? Different handball. So this is like, imagine water polo with no water or soccer with your hands. It's on a big basketball court. It's played all over Europe professionally.

It's an amateur sport here. That's why I play this sport on the USA team because there's not many people that play it. And it's an Olympic sport. So it's very physical. It's very fast. It's kind of like basketball and football, but you're throwing a ball into a goal past a goalie.

So defense is very important. And I'm kind of like the bruiser that is just trying to cause a ruckus on the court every game. That's how I stay on the team, by being that role. I kind of play your role. My role, right. Because I don't score a lot. It's like playing volleyball with your foot. It's like... I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

It's on the track, right? You've seen that game, right? Yeah. They kick with their feet volleyball, right? It's crazy. But those guys are doing like backflips. Backflips, yeah. It's something like that, yes.

But anyway. So anyways, we have something in common there. But what I really admire about you is that you were consistent in your ability to be great even through the different emotional challenges you were going through. Because I can only imagine the amount of emotional stress you went through questioning things, questioning identity or questioning who are my real friends. But to be able to play at such a high level for so many years, that was impressive. That was tough.

How did you do it with the emotional stress that you were facing? I don't know, really. Today, it'd be easy today because you have so many distractions. You have so many leeways to get out there and just free your mind, do a lot of cool things to reboot and refresh yourself. Back then it was more like you had to be full throttle,

no matter what. When I say that, it's like you had to have some type of aura about yourself to do certain things. Michael had Michaels. Michael was doing Nike commercials, doing this, shooting movies and stuff like that. He was doing all that. I was doing all that and more. I was doing that and going out at 6 in the morning to get on a plane,

go try to fly in Russell the next night. The next thing, you know, go there, da-da-da. I was just doing all these things at once. The next thing you know, I go there, da-da-da. I was just doing all these things at once. And I think maybe once a month, I would have a breakdown. You know, in the locker room after a game, my bodyguard would say, Dennis, go on and debrief yourself and stuff like that. So I just go fall on the ground, just let it all out in motion,

and just try to, like, wow, how am I doing this? Running both ends of the candle. And I used to do that all the time. It was funny. Damn, damn, you know, and it was just funny that the fact that people said,

this is all, this is all fun, man. You should be happy. You should be this and that, but damn, it's a price to pay, you know,

because you want to do so much in such a little time. Sports is so short-lived in the days we've been. And athletes don't understand that. Even though the money is good and stuff like that, but it's like, okay, what are you going to do after basketball? And I thought about that

as I left Detroit when I went to San Antonio. I said, I'm so bored of this game. I'm so bored of life. I need something to have a great, some type of outlet for me to try to enjoy my life after basketball. So on to San Antonio, I just started to do certain things outside the box that most athletes wouldn't dare to do. And I found a new remedy to the founder of you, you want to call it, to reboot myself to enjoy life again. Yeah. So thanks for signing Tony for that.

That's good. That's great. One of the things that you did differently is you showed your emotions. You cried. You weren't afraid to show that. No. And I think that was pre-men showing their vulnerability. No. And I think that's, that was pre, like, men showing their vulnerability. For 20,

30 years pre that, now men are coming out more and more. I wrote a book about being vulnerable as a man and the power of being vulnerable.

You were doing this long before. Did you get, did you get made fun of a lot during that when you were a pro athlete and kind of showing

this vulnerable side or did people embrace it behind the scenes? I think a lot of people thought there was something new. It was like, they didn't think that I was such an individual that was so emotional all the time that he couldn't control his feelings about controlling how to be an adult, how to be a professional player, professional person in general. So I think they look at me as more like,

wow, this guy's not afraid to do anything. And in the same sense of the word, I didn't know what I was doing. I just, that was my passion, to be emotional. I loved it. I loved what I was doing playing sports. I loved making people happy. And I think that I brought out, as they say, you're not a real man unless you show emotion.

And they used to say those quotes, those things back in the day. And now you see just why every man will cry about something. You're not ashamed to do it. And I didn't care if I cried or anything. I just thought that was the way you're supposed to live life. Right. So, you know, you have emotion, you express emotion.

But I think that I've crossed over a lot of barriers back in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s and still probably today. I'm not afraid to show my feminist side as far as a man. I'm not afraid to go to gay clubs. I'm not afraid to interact with the gay community. I think I've really opened a lot of doors for the gay community

as far as the sports world is concerned. I understand men today are pretty much coming out and actually showing their livelihoods as far as if they're a man or they're homosexual or they're bisexual or something like that. They actually come out being free now. back then when I was doing those photo shoots and doing all the drag queens and stuff like that and dressed up as a woman, going to a lot of bars that was content for sports. But even if I did come out and said I was gay back then, I think I'd probably been the first rich gay athlete. Yeah.

Just like you know. Yeah, for sure. It could go in all different ways back then, if I could have done a lot of stuff in different ways, but now no one ever called me homosexual, gay, like you know, blatantly like that, but it's more like, when I did the ESPN cover, and I dressed up in this drag attire,

they looked at me and said, well Dennis, you know, we can't do that, that's not appropriate. And they looked at me like, oh man, that you know, we can't do that, that's not appropriate. And they looked at me like, oh man, that's what I'm wearing, I'm not changing. So I sat there for like two hours, I said I'm not changing, with my birds and stuff, they're talking to each other, I'm just sitting there,

I'm just sitting there, what do you guys think? And they're actually talking to me, it's like, what do you think? Oh, well, they're just mumbling. The birds were talking to you? They're just talking to each other like this, right here, so I'm just waiting until they announce it. Two hours later they said, okay Dennis, we're going to shoot it.

I promise you we're going to put it on Sports Illustrated cover. We're going to shoot it. If you look in your Argyle Sports Illustrated, you see that cover when I'm just all in the deck and all in drag and being so gayish in the gay community. I'm like, oh, bondage and stuff like that. I was sexy with the short shorts and stuff like that. Got my brother right there. And it was funny that they said, you know, this could work.

And I think I crossed over that as far as in the community and especially in San Antonio. And lo and behold, guess what? It was a best-selling magazine in the history of sports industry. Wow. So I did have three covers like that for the sports industry. They should thank you.

No, not really. They should pay you more. Pay me more, right? Yeah. It's funny, I live in the center of the gay community here in L.A. You're right here. I'm in Boys Town, WeHo.

I love it. For me, I've always felt comfortable. Whenever I'm in Boys Town, WeHo. I love it. For me, it's, I've always felt comfortable, you know, whenever I feel insecure about myself, I will just walk down the street and I'll feel good again because of the gate clubs. They're amazing. They're amazing. People are friendly. It's clean. Clean.

People, it's like good food. I'm like, where else would you want to go? They keep the neighborhood clean, which is what I like, too. So I don't mind at all. But back then, I remember when I was growing up as a kid, when I would just put my, I played basketball, football, track, everything. And when I would just put my arm around another boy, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, didn't matter. They would push me off and say, don't be gay. Don't be a fag. Don't be a little girl. Like

don't touch me. And I just wanted to show affection. just wanted you know someone to like me as well because I felt very alone I felt very made fun of and it was never really accepted were you able to show any affection as like a brotherly hug with it with it being accepted in college or in the pros I would just saw a Zubrin just to be doing something cool you I just showed it a lot. If I score a basket, if I made a touchdown or something like that, I just get nuts. I was like, oh man, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool, I'm happy. But it just came naturally for me. Yeah.

Did you get made fun of at all or you didn't care? No, I didn't make fun of it. Nobody really made any type of remarks to me at all. It was more like when I first started doing it, I was in college. And people said, oh, that's just him? In front of like 500 people. I think I'm doing like 200,000 people. And I'm just so happy when I score a basket or block a shot.

I'm just so giddy inside. And then when I brought that emotion to Detroit, people embraced that. And it was seeing them come out and just be happy and just so astute as them by just playing the game. Because most of the time you see most athletes that make a point or get a rebound or die for a ball and they don't react to it. I do. I love it. I'm doing something that makes me happy. I'm doing something that makes me happy. I'm doing something that makes people happy.

I'm doing something that contributes to win. And that's my whole thing about life. I want to win. I want to be successful. But I know the fact that in my journey, I said, my journey had to pay the price.

A big price because I think without the negativity, it's going to sound kind of up. Without the negativity, I wouldn't be here. I didn't become Dennis Robin to be good, because I was good. It was all the other stuff that made Robin, who he is today. And now, by me saying that, if I was good all the way through, I wouldn't have left Detroit. I wouldn't

be sitting here. I wouldn't be doing a lot of things. If you were good all the way through. All the way through the journey. If I was this good, you know, just straight-laced guy all the way through, I think I wouldn't be... Clean, not going out, doing... No, I think I wouldn't be here today talking to you or talking to anybody or doing the same format. Where would you be?

I couldn't tell you that one. Yeah. If you were to say that, where would you be when you was 18, 19, didn't have a career, didn't have anything to focus on to be something significant in life, I'd probably be dead in jail. Seriously, just like that. No chance I would be living today. Yeah. What brought you the most joy

throughout your time playing professional basketball? What were the moments where you felt the most fulfillment and joy? Because you might have had fun, you might have looked like you were having fun during some of those games. I had fun. I know a lot about times. I had fun.

I know a lot about that. I had fun. I think the most enjoyment is the fact that I was able to be free through a lot of that process. It made up my mind to say, you know, Dennis, life is not that difficult. Life is not that hard. Even though the bumps and the roads have been bumpy a lot, but now you have the opportunity to go in there and say, okay, great.

We can do this. We can go this road. We can go and say, okay, I got three hours to do a job I like to do and be happy. Or I can make it an all-day adventure and be sad and just miserable the rest of my life. I say, okay, great. I'm going to take that road. I'm going to take the road where they pay me to do a lot of things. They pay me to make people happy, to do this and do that.

And also, I'm happy doing it. And I just put my life in that genre where, okay, great, I'm going to do three hours. If I don't do three and a half, I subject that. I do that. And I said, I got 21 more hours to do it. What can I do? What can I do? So I look at it like, what am I doing?

Have fun. Okay, great. This is cool here. Oh, man, I got all this time now. Stuff like this. So I just looked at it like that at the end of my career. I said, well, I had a hell of a road. Yeah.

How did you, I mean, in the documentary, it's amazing. People need to watch this. They really need to watch it, too. It's unbelievable. When you, you know, it shows you just like going out until 5, 6 a.m. every night and then having four hours of sleep, then going to practice and being a gazelle. I think someone said you just look like a gazelle. You're sprinting. You're passionate.

You're happy. All these things. Right. How did you do that mentally? How did you focus right before practice to say, I'm going to still dominate, I'm going to be one of the best? I think it's more like I'm a routine guy. When I first came into the league, I knew it worked out.

I just go play basketball and go home and go to the arcades and play like three, four hours and go home and go to sleep. Go to the gym, okay, practice, go to arcade, go home, go to sleep. That was my routine that I never worked out. And then I think by my fourth year in the league, I started to work out. I started to take care of my body. I got to loving that every day.

So I think for like 15 years straight, I worked out every day, pretty much every day, six days a week. Wow. 15 years, I stayed like between 185 to 1 to 2 15 for like that's it until I was like 45 I'm at 240 now so the routine thing got me got me hooked on the reason why this this so well in Chicago and San Antonio, doing all the activities, playing basketball, going out to 4, 5, 6 in the morning,

you know, sleeping in meetings, but then wake up and go like that. Did you sleep in the meetings? Oh, yeah. I had to have so bad. I couldn't be here that way. Somebody going to sleep that night. Yeah, that was me.

They didn't care, huh? No, they didn't care. As long as you delivered and performed. I delivered, I performed. I delivered and tried to perform. But I bought me in practice. I go downstairs to practice for like an hour, work my ass off, practice. And then after practice, I stayed there and started a game of basketball with my friends. And all the guys that left, we worked out.

I have all my friends come in to help me with my game as far as a rebound and play defense. I used to have my friends, how I became a great rebounder, I used to have my friends spot around the court, the free-point line, and ask them to shoot the ball. And I would turn around, and I'd have someone shoot it, and I'd just turn around and watch the ball hit the rim. And I'd position myself where the ball was going, and I'd just ask other guys to shoot it anywhere.

I'd just turn around and just watched the ball hit the rim. I did that every day, every day. And I tried to play a trick on myself. Okay, great, I'm going to blindfold myself and do the same thing. Wow. Now, blindfold myself, I just didn't know where the ball was going. I just heard the rim. So I heard, okay, great, bounce this way.

Boom, boom, okay, great. So I tried to act to it. And my friends would say, yeah, you almost had it. You almost had it the right direction. But that's how I became a great reaper. I studied the ball. I followed the game. I followed the movement of the ball and stuff like that.

If you see on the tapes, I never really out-jumped anybody. You just were in the right spot. I was right in the right spot. You just had the position. Yeah, the position. So I just went and I did a lot of – Yeah, because other people were jumping high. You were had the position. He had the position, so I just went and did a lot of... Yeah, because other people were jumping high. You were kind of jumping and doing the splits and different crazy...

All the crazy stuff, but down this level... You didn't have to jump high, you just were there. I was just there. That's powerful. Timing is everything. Vision is everything. It seems like you have the right vision. Do you think you'd be 2019, Robin,

do you think you would be able to stay in the NBA as long now with the same personality? Or do you think they would have kicked you off the teams quicker and said, okay, if you're not going to show up on time, you're getting fined more. You can't sleep in meetings. We're not allowing this at this time and age. Well, at today's age, on today's game, I mean, you can do anything. Really? Oh, I'm going to take a week off. Thank you.

I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. So whatever. I'll be back next week. So this is easy today. This is very easy. Really? You're making $40 million and saying my back hurts.

I'm going to take two weeks off. Okay. Don't worry about it. I'm like, damn, what was that at back then? You can take two weeks off and still get paid and then go to Vegas, go to Tahiti, Fiji. Fiji. That's where you're going after this, right? Fiji.

And you get paid for it. And then all of a sudden you see the person that want to take a vacation. Oh, where is he at? He's in Fiji. Look at it, guys. It's on Instagram. Look at it. He's on Fiji waving on a banana boat.

He's over here on a fucking yacht. So then he comes back. Oh, you having a good time? Yep. I would love to be in today's world. Really waving on a banana boat. He's over here on a fucking yacht. That's the day he comes back. Oh, you having a good time? Yep. I would love to be in today's world. Really? Oh, hell yeah. Do you think you'd be able to compete at the same level?

If I had the same body, the same speed, the same jump in the building, stuff like that, oh, hell, I'd be a monster. Really? I'd be driving like over 20 rebounds a game, playing like 40 minutes a game. I would love it. Do you think because people are softer now in certain ways and with your intensity?

Well, I don't really care if they're soft or hard. I just want to go out there and do me. Let's go play basketball, man. It's more like I think I'll probably be, I think, more famous just because you have this outlet. With social media and everything. Oh, yeah. I think I'll be way flamboyant.

Even more? Oh, yeah. Do you think you would have been more destructive then with this type of reach and opportunity for following and press? Oh, yeah. I think I'd be a rock star and a superstar in basketball. Because I think I probably would have followed a career and tried to be a rock star. Yeah. And imagine being a rockstar and a basketball player.

Do you think you would have been slept at all? Too much sex, right? Too much sex, right? Damn. She's loving it. So let me say this. I mean, just like, wow, you're really a rockstar. You got your scene. You can do all these things.

Then you go to the basketball court. We get to see your legs and everything you do. And what the hell. Oh, my God. Really? You got all the world right there in your hands, man. Yeah. But I think that, you know, for me, I think I would get burned out real quick.

Yeah. Especially because there's so much going on. So much. So much. You can't gravitate to anything anymore. I think I probably have four or five years in the league. And then go into entertainment afterwards. Oh, man.

Quick. I mean, quick. Seriously, I go there quick because if you look at it, I think the people that is more branded is athletes and entertainers, music people, right? I mean, who don't want to live that life? Right, right. Especially young kids today.

And so, they just had something on the TV today about legalized college football players, athletes, to sell their names. Really? For like merchandise? Merchandise. They did it today? They did it today. Because they've been talking about it for years.

I said it in California. Nobody else here. It's legal now. Or they're talking about making it. They're talking about doing it. I think they're seriously doing it. I think they're going to about it for years. I said it, California. Nobody else here. It's legal now. Or they're talking about making it. They're talking about doing it. That would be powerful. As soon as they're doing it, I think they'll have a vote tomorrow. That's huge. That's huge. I'm saying, well, let's see.

I remember Reggie Bush, Matt Liner, O.J. Simpson, all those guys, UCLA, UCLA. Man, they weren't letting those condos for no reason, weren't they? Back in the day, driving those Bentleys and, I don't know, Rolls Royces and stuff like that for no reason. But now it's going to be legalized. So I'm like, wow, what a great business move for the kids now. Now they can't. Now they can't now.

So you can make money now. It's OK, great. Yeah, exactly. And also, which player did you learn from the most when you were playing either against them or with them? Who taught you the most about life, about the game, about? I think Detroit, the Piston. They taught me how to actually be a part of something that was great. I know, I left Oklahoma.

There was a great bond there. I think when I got to Detroit, we became as one. Thirteen guys became as one for five straight years. And I really liked that, you know, that they taught me a lot about living life, growing up as a man, growing up as a professional athlete. And I think that if I wasn't drafted by Detroit, if I was drafted by the Lakers, I'd be out the league quick. Quick.

I would. What would have happened if, hypothetically, everyone stayed together for another five years in Detroit? Well, no, no, no. It had to end because they was getting older. I was like 28. Sure, sure. And a lot of guys like 33, 34, 35 was they was getting older i was like 28 sure sure and a lot of guys like 30

33 34 35 and he was getting older so basically i think it could have had another run but it was just that time but where would you be because that's when things started to shift quickly after that in san antonio you know yep the identity shift and the the bad boy image even more so right the personality came image even more so, right? The personality came out even more. Right. Yeah, San Antonio. Where do you think you would be if you had another five years of, like, family unit stability, those types of feelings?

I don't think. Do you think you'd be here now? I don't think I'd be here. Wow. I would not be here at all. I mean, I'll be on planet Earth, but I won't be in this situation. Wow. I think the course of action, the fact that I've become really popular in Detroit, in the Midwest.

I think when I went to San Antonio, I became more all-around famous. If you see a clip on 30 for 30, you're going to see it. I said, you know, I don't give a damn if you like me or hate me. I'm just here to get solid. And I took my hat off, and that's when things started to happen for me. In a place in San Antonio, Bible-bombing city of the United States, I mean, you've got to be good on your toes. So I went there and just totally rebelled, totally rebelled,

but I wanted to win in the same process. And a lot of people get out of this, a lot of athletes and people, professionals will get out of this, the fact that when I left Detroit, my mindset as far as doing my job never wavered. I went from Detroit to San Antonio

to go there and average 19.2 rebounds a game. From another team that was averaging 18 rebounds, I went down to San Antonio and went another team in the West Coast. Not the East, the West Coast. 19.2, 18.9, those two years. And going from East Coast to West Coast,

I went down, did my job in Detroit, swerved down to San Antonio, I did my job there, didn't sway my head because I wanted to win. Then after that didn't work out, then I went back to the East Coast, Chicago, went there and won three more rebound titles. I was doing my job all the way through this whole cycle.

I didn't change at all. I just went to a certain different location, location, and just did my job. It wasn't even about the money at all. It wasn't about the money. A lot of players will say, I want to go there for the money. No, I never did.

I just want to go play and win, and that's what I did. Yeah. Who was the best player you played against? Played against? Yeah. Or with. Or with.

Well, Michael's there, Scotty's there, James Worthy. You know, I was looking at people that was my style of play. As far as like lane and speed and agility and stuff like that. Those guys. Worthy was probably the hardest because he was, I hated playing him because he was in that damn wing. I had to go across here, across there, get picked all the time. You wanted to stay down low.

I just wanted to stay down low and get up front. But he was just like so difficult. He was just so difficult to guard. I just wanted to stay down lower and get up front. But he was just like, it was so difficult. He was just so difficult to guard. But Michael Jordan was probably the hardest. What are you most proud of from your time in the league? I survived it. You survived it. Oh, yeah.

I survived it on and off the court. On and off the court. The hard part was just getting in and trying to fit in. The easy part is trying to come out alive, you know, on my own two feet. Because I was just running it hard. You know, I wasn't doing cocaine or, you know, any other substances. You know, I got into alcohol. It was kind of really, they could take control of me.

I think that was more of a motivation for me to try to fight both of those sides of me. If that was anything that had to disrupt me from basketball and cut my career short at the age of 37, I think the lifestyle off the court did that. That was going to stop me because I liked having a good time on and off the court. So I was just surviving the NBA pretty much. Yeah. I'm curious, who was the most influential person for you growing up? To this day? From, like, the time you were, you know, a kid until 20, before you went to college basketball,

who was the most influential individual in your life growing up? I don't know. Who? Was it a sibling or was your mom at the time? Was it a- No one. No one. No one.

No one influenced you? I can't even think of anyone if I was- Before you left town. Was there a kid in the neighborhood? Was there older? No one. So I pretty much was a follower. I didn't have any sense of direction.

So whatever I saw somebody did, I was a see monkey, do monkey guy. So that was me. A do monkey guy? What does that mean? If you see somebody, you do it. So you see somebody do it, you don't do it. You mimicked it.

I mimicked it pretty much. So if somebody goes to see a watch and they think it's cool, oh much Yeah, so if somebody goes to the wash and think it's cool. Oh great I go over do the same thing. I think it's cool, but I only want get caught Okay, wait I'm the one getting caught so he did not thought it was cool. So that was me back then I didn't have any Anyone to look up to who was the first influential person in your life that you really respected and admired i think it's like two people well not really i think one person in in particular i think when i went to oklahoma and lived with that family james rich yeah but that's the the father of the father of the other white family and boche to oklahoma population 602 one stop light so he was

he was one of the most influential people for you? Oh, man, he was right there, man. He literally did, you know, a kid with his head cut off. How about you going from the projects, living in a racial tension town, it was like 16,000, 17,000 people, didn't go on that blind,

didn't understand what's going on in that town, and're black and you go into a university there small like 20,000 people going to a dorm and then you walk out the dorm you walk down to the to the gym and all you hear is hey black person go back home they say what are you doing over here da da da da dada, da-da-da. I mean, what was that? I hear it every day. So, and I'm like, I'm like, just thought it was like, it was common. I didn't think it was like, oh, I hate that, I hate that, I hate that. I thought it was just common because I'm just so used to seeing and hearing it, you know, in the neighborhood and stuff like that. So I was like, all right, great, it's cool, da-da-da.

But when I met that family, I mean, it was cool. I didn't like it in the beginning because I didn't know how to behave. I'm being the custom, being just going out wild with shorts on, no shoes, and running around with a kid's hair cut off and didn't have no structure. But

that family taught me a lot about structure. Really? And stuff like that. I try to cut the long story short. The more I was so involved with that family, the more I distanced my real family from me. And I think that was a good thing for me. If I didn't distance myself from my real family,

I'd be in trouble for being there legit. Really? Yeah. What was it that your own family wasn't giving you that you felt like you really wanted or needed? He knows that. I think I'm about to work on notice today. I think it was just more love and more understanding.

I didn't get that. I didn't get none of that. Your sisters or your mom? Because your dad was gone. He was gone. Nobody taught me that. You know, you never saw it in the neighborhood. All the kids were running amok.

Yeah. And you never saw anyone getting loved or hugged or anyone getting beaten and whatever you hear, what you mimic. Yeah. So I think James Ritz was the most important person at that time for me. What did he provide for you besides structure? Did he give you hugs and affection and love or acceptance and understanding? He just treated me like one of his sons. He had three sons, and he just put me right in the mix.

Come to the table, eat. Put your shoes off. Go to bed on time. But it's funny. It's a cute story. You're going to see it in the documentary. When I first went to this family's house, I laughed at this.

It's funny as hell. People will think it's funny. I think it's funny as hell. So when I first went to this family's house, and I laughed at this. This is funny as hell. People will think it's funny. I think it's funny as hell. So when I first went to the house, everyone was shocked to see that I was black coming into this country forum. So the little kid, hey, Dennis, come on, sit over here. Come sit over here.

I said, all right, great. And I don't know what to do because I've never been in this setting before. I usually go in and get a get a turkey, like that, or crackers and stuff like that. I'm like, okay, great. I sit down at this table. I had all this crystal and glasses and glass.

I mean, all different types of glass. Civil wear. Civil wear. I never seen that shit, right? I was like, all right, great. He said, what are you sitting right here beside me? He's a little boy, you know. So I'm sitting there.

Then he looks at me and looks around the table. And he gets up. He takes the glass in front of me. He said, I'll be right back. So he goes over. He goes to the cabinet. And he goes up there. He jumped from the top of the counter.

He goes, reach way up here and get this big-ass mug. He said, all right, great. So he comes up. I said, what did you do that for? I said, what did you do that for? He said, what did you do that for? He said, oh, I figured that your lips are too big, you can swallow. No way.

I said, what? He said, your lips are too big, I had to get this for you. I said, oh God, really? I thought it was funny as hell, I thought he didn't know any better. He's trying to be courteous. I said, okay, all right, thank you, man. I'm like, wow. I can drink water out of any cup.

I can be something too small in class like that small. So he got this big mug. I had to pull it. So from that point on, we're trying to cut the story short. We ain't got that much time. But me and that little kid, we're trying to cut the story short. We ain't got that much time. But me and that little kid, we really bonded. He was like 13, 14 years old, right? No, he was like, I was 22.

He was like, I think he was 13, 12 or 13. But he was a skinny little kid. I really bonded to this kid. And we got to know so well. Out of the 22 years I had in my life in Texas, I never bonded to anyone like this. And this little white little kid and stuff like that. And he didn't care what I looked like, what I said, or this or that.

He thought everything I did was cool. And I thought what he did was cool. I'm not going to play in his role. He's playing my role. Right, right. And every night, we would sit down and go play basketball every night, like 11, 12 at night. And Mom used to come out and say,

Dennis, you guys got to go to bed. I said, all right, great. Then we'd go to bed. I mean, that was going on for three years straight. But I think that right there really got me out of the negative part of my life to try to do something positive in my life. And that just put me in the position I am today. Did you feel like a sense of peace

for those three years sleeping there? Did it feel like you could finally relax and kind of just take a deep breath? Well, it was just more like, mm. And I felt good to just be in something that was very solid. Very solid was cool to wake up in the morning and like, oh wow, you get to eat good. Take a shower. You get to do that. Very solid, it was cool to wake up in the morning and, oh wow, you get to eat good.

You get to take a shower. You get to drink water. It just felt good to just wake up and say, wow, you're going to have a great day today. Wow, that's powerful. I appreciate all, everything, though. I hated getting up at 530. Where we got to get up at 530?

For what? For what? For what? They say, well, I got to go to practice in a couple hours. You know, you got to go out and feed the cows. You got to go out there, break the ice. You got to go out there and, you know, lift hay. I'm like, oh, my God. I did that for three years straight.

Summer, winter, and fall. I mean, all season we did that every day for seven days a week. And I think that right there really made me appreciate the hard work that I put into it and make people happy. So there was no money involved with that. Same thing in college. And it just propelled me to the NBA. Yeah.

What was the greatest lesson that Father taught you? Oh, to be humble. Really? Be humble. Were you not humble? Humble and patient. Were you not humble or patient then? I didn't know what that was. I didn't humble? Humble and patient. Were you not humble or patient then? I didn't know what that was. I didn't know anything about humble and patient. I think that

I was just living life through them, through their eyes and trying to figure out what direction I was going, if it was college and what direction I was going to go after college. But I just watched them every day and see how they perform as a family. And the dad was more like, he was more the cool one. The whole bunch. He would come home 530 in the evening, sit there, drink his little scotch and whatever, sit out there on the porch. And he always said, Dennis, you know, what do you think?

He always talked to me outside, me and Brian. We sit there with him. We go down the pond and fish. We catfish every day and just sit there and talk, we go down the pond and fish, we catfish every day. And just sit there and talk most of the day. And I got so used to that, it was so peaceful. Instead of thinking about that nigga, who's dying today, who's getting stabbed tomorrow, who's getting whooped today, who's getting beat today.

I'm like this, you heard that every day in the project. But for once, I went there and it's literally at peace. I'm expecting people to beat on the walls, shoot someone, or someone screaming. But there it was more than so peaceful. And it's like, wow. And I got so used to it, I never want to go back. Wow. Do you still have a relationship with them today? Well, yeah. Times have changed. But I think that they, I don't know, I really haven't contacted them in a couple of years. But my friends, I've contacted them. I think they're still doing better.

They're doing better now. That's good. Yeah, yeah. At the end of the documentary, I'm still in like five, ten minutes to finish it, which I'm excited to do right after this. Because I just got the link. Right. That's why I came here. It gets to the part of Kim Jong-un

when you start connecting with him and the whole trip over there. I really want to go to that part of this documentary, which we don't show too much of that in our career. And it's your agent's fault that it all started, right?

He's responsible for all this. He's not responsible. I think it was just more like it was just handed to us. It was just handed to us and it was more like he got debriefed by his friend, and he's like, oh, blah, blah, blah. He says it better than I do.

You want him to tell you. Every time I say it, I get it all fucked up, screwed up. Were they bringing basketball players over there before, or were you kind of like the first one to be invited to go there? I think Darren was telling me that. I think Muhammad Ali went there. Who else? Who else went there?

Ric Flair went there. I think it was for a wrestling event and stuff like that. But I don't think they knew the magnitude then what was going on. I think they did the same thing I did. Just went over there and performed. After that, I wasn't really worried about getting killed or being in prison, stuff like that. And when I went there, it was totally different.

It was a couple of years ago. It was just totally different because I think if they had that situation back, I don't know, was it in the 90s? I think it was the 90s or whatever. I think they had that situation back then. I think nobody would have went over there. What was going on when I went there a couple years ago, people getting kidnapped and put in prison and beaten and whatever.

They said it was happening. But I was just fortunate enough just to get the opportunity just to go over there. And I didn't care. I just wanted to be safe. Once I'm safe, I don't care. I go. Yeah. As long as you're on the phone, you're making an impact, you're getting paid, you're good to go.

I'm good to go. So when did you go originally? 2013? 2013. How many times have you been? A few times after that. A few times after that? Yeah.

I guess it's a shame that Donald Trump won't let me go back. He won't let you go back? Why not? I guess he just closed the border for some reason. Oh. For any Americans to go or? Is it for any Americans? For anyone to go.

Really? If you let me go. They want me to come back. Really? Are you in contact with him? Well, you can't contact him directly. I think, you know, Vo, I think my assistant is there. I think he's pretty much in contact with the right people, the right contacts.

So we're not directly in contact, but I think they pretty much know how to get in contact with me, him, or both, the three people that they need to contact. So if they have to sit there and find Dennis Rodman, I think they can find Dennis Rodman. Sure, sure. I'm not hiding nowhere. I mean, he's a very controversial individual.

What's the lesson you learned from's a very controversial individual. What's the what's the The lesson you learned from him with your time just in his presence with your time connecting and talking through translators and What's the what's the thing that the biggest lesson you learned from him? I think a bit the biggest lesson I learned for him and the fact that he really don't want war Hmm. He don't want it. I think he's just under pressure because I think his family has left this regime to carry out what his father left. But what I told him, it's not like that. He really wants to go into the 21st century.

He don't want to give the power up to anyone in the world. I think he wants to keep it where he's in hands of that. to anyone in the world. I think he wants to keep it where he's in the hands of that. But he can give a little more, you know, at least to certain things to certain people who he trusts.

But I think he still wants to have the empowerment of his own country. And I don't see anything wrong with that. I mean, but the good thing, the best thing

I can see is the fact that he's actually talking. Talking to Donald Trump or whatever he's saying. I think it's good the fact that he's actually talking. Talking to Donald Trump or whatever he's saying, I think it's good the fact that he's out, actually being a human being. When you saw him in Beijing,

once he went to Beijing, Singapore, right? The last time I was with him, the last year or two years ago. Did you see him go out on the water, after walking in the streets and stuff like that, did you see him doing selfies with himself? Yeah. You never see him do that, huh?

None of the presidents do that. They took pictures of themselves smiling and having a good time with the people. You never saw him do that. I mean, whoever's in the parliament over there, but he wants to do stuff like that. And if you see North Korea, it's grown in the 21st century,

and people haven't seen it. And all you see is all the negativity. But you don't see all the new stuff he's done right for the people and um i think that when he opens the door for for someone to go back over it's gonna i'm gonna be right there not gonna do it you know mark not gonna have his door right i'll be right there and say you you know what? And the next time I do go, this is going to be for a real reason. A real reason. A real reason why I'm really going over there. To actually interact with him and trying to write a little documentary about me and him and the visit over there.

Really? Just me and him. Me and him and the trying to see if I can get the reason why we can't really get along. I don't know a reason why. I don't really look up to the history of North Korea and America. I don't really want to go that in-depth because, you know, things change every day now. So I would love to get that part of information from him

just to sit there with me and just chit-chat like this, you know, and put it in good contents for the world to see it'd be powerful in his mind not his father or his grandfather in his mind so people can get

a good light on him like they did with everybody else among great leaders around the world so if I can do that I think that's going to change a lot for anyone

that'd be powerful yeah where do you think you would be right now if you had a a loving father and a loving mother for your childhood? I wouldn't be in sports.

You wouldn't have gone to sports? I'd probably be like playing piano for the church. Really? Singing somewhere? I'd be playing piano for the church. I'd have four or five kids. I'm just serious. Buried still.

Buried still. That's what I'm going to bury still. That's what I'll be doing right now. I wouldn't be in sports at all. Because I think, like I said, a lot of negative things that came in my life have driven me to this point. And I look at that whole scenario and I said, why have I had a father

back then? And knowing the fact that I wasn't playing sports and knowing the fact that I would probably get beaten every day because I'm not doing anything. Oh, I probably have to do the chores. I probably have to do this. I probably have to be in the camp. Some type of structural environment.

But it was more like I said, thank God I didn't have a father. Thank God I grew up like that. Thank God that someone had the hope and the desire for me to not have to make that major mistake to go and just create this whole image about negativity about, oh, you're going to kill somebody, you're going to do drugs, or you're going to rape this woman when you do this. Thank God someone had a hand on my shoulder. When I did screw up, there was someone who came and pulled me back. Come here. Come here. You know,

something's good. Someone's waiting for you. And every time I went back to the other direction, back to the negative side of it, somebody kept pulling me back over and over. I don't know what it is, what happened, because I had a lot of opportunities to go over there and say, okay, great. You know, I can shoot you. I can do this and this. I never did. And then when I can shoot you, I can do this and this. I never did.

And then when I did anything bad, I tried to redeem myself by, okay, great, I'm going to go steal 50 watches that's worth about 60, 70 grand, but I'm going to do the right thing to do. I'm going to go to my school and pass them away for free. Not make money, yeah, yeah. I also took out that dumb f***ing criminal. The dumb criminal, yeah.

Here's a Rolex. Don't worry about it. Just me and my friend. Don't worry about it. Here you go, guys. Take them. So that's the circumstance right there. Those are things I was doing.

I wasn't doing anything to make, satisfy me. I was just trying for people to like me. You know, because I was an outcast looking in.

I was like, here, I'm going to steal a car so you'd like to drive it for me? Right. You know, you don't mind that, right? Sure, sure.

You know, here's the doorway. Come on and steal my mother's purse. Thank you. You like me now? Right. Stuff like that. It's just like, you know, those things pretty much prepare me to understand now today's life. And I look back all the time on these little things that could have went wrong.

Yeah. One thing. One thing. It went wrong, but it didn't go wrong enough. Enough. Enough. I can relate so much. That's right, it'd go too far where I couldn't come back.

And even in the NBA life, and even in the celebrity life, it's the same thing, I would go so far. So far. But not to a whole lot. Not the whole thing. Oh my God, then, okay, great, let me try it again.

I do it again, God damn it, I can go a little higher. Then all of a sudden, then it gets to that crisis moment. Oh man, okay,

da, da, da, da. I think the, I think the crisis moment for me, being an adult, I'm being 58, a lot of people used to have vets

in Vegas, they used to have people used to have bets in Vegas. They used to have like a chart for me in Vegas. Oh, so Dennis' birthday is today. So is he going to live to 54, 55? Really? It was really a true story. They used to have bets for me living a certain year. And for me, I think it was kind of like, I think I'm going to die next year because of

the way I live. You would think this to yourself? Oh, yeah. You would think, I think I'm going to die next year because of the way I live. You would think this to yourself? Oh, yeah. You would think, I think I'm going to die next year? Yeah. Wow. There was no control of me for a moment there. I would go and just be on these bands, man, just go drink for like four or five days straight.

It was like, I was on that septum. It was like, I don't care, whatever, man. I'm Dennis Rodman. I'm famous. Wow. I was doing it every-destructive mode. It's like, I don't care, whatever, man. I'm Dennis Rodman. I'm famous. Wow. I was doing it every day, man. Do you feel more balanced now? Do you feel like you're going to die every year still?

Or do you feel like you're in a good place right now? No, you know, those thoughts have crossed my mind once in a blue moon. Not like every other day. Like I said, I got good people that surround me. He's walked a straight narrow road for 11, 12 years now. He's doing a great job. We got a new book out there, Amy and Hyde. You know, he's only, what, five foot seven Jew right there.

Jewish boy right here. You know, but he's changing a lot of people's lives in the world. That's Darren Prince. You don't see his ass right there, guys. He's right there. You know, I think you know him around the world. Got a lot of cool clients, you know, stuff like that. But he is actually evolutionizing the Opus epidemic. If you guys can check him out, guys, check him out.

Darren Prince, live, somewhere in your city. Seriously. But he's been a very integral part of my life over the last 22 years, 23 years. How has he helped you improve and grow and overcome a lot of the negative thoughts you've had about yourself or the addictive things you've gone through? Well, he's tried to challenge me sometimes, trying to be firm and tough. He's only 59, 40, 40, 49, or 50 right now, and I'm 58.

He's trying to tell me, oh, man, come on, do I need da. I'm like, oh man, come on, do I need this today? And sometimes I kind of like have to put my ego aside and say, oh man, I actually do need this because things are not going too damn well. So I do bow down and listen. Like I said, you're never too old to need help. You're never too old to ask for help. I said that to myself

for many, many days, many, many years. Yeah. Or to learn something new. Something new all the time. You know, you think you're smart, but everyone needs help.

Yeah. You know, so I think he's been there for most of the tough times, the sad times mostly because, you know, because he knows I get sometimes lonely

to myself because, and I feel like that I've done so much, I don't deserve anything else. Really? So he's actually been trying to give me some uplifting spirits and hope to just keep moving forward. So he's good at that. You read the book, he'll say that in the book a lot. Always don't doubt the word hope and faith. Wow.

It carries a long weight. Yeah. Why do you feel like you don't deserve anything more? It's been like that all my life. Yeah. Like that all my life, man. And people, like I said, I can't say enough about my life sitting right here. Yeah.

But this documentary is going to change a lot of people's perspective about how they conduct certain things in their lives, especially kids. Yeah. You know, there was one piece there, one piece that keeps showing all day and yesterday about me and my mother. My mother said, you know, I never tried to run Dennis. I just wanted to run Dennis. I never tried to run him. I never tried to run his life. I never tried to what? Run Dennis. I want his life. I'm not trying to control him, but, you know,

I should say in a soft voice, like, I just want a piece of him. I just want him to know that I love him and stuff like that. And then they click over to me, and I'm just going nuts. Like, oh, you know, where was you when I need you? When I became famous, when I was broke, you didn't want me, you threw me out the house. This is what I'm saying on TV. Yeah, yeah.

You know, so like that. And people are going to look at it and say, wait a minute. I never heard an athlete, a person, talk about their mother like that. And on the 30 for 30, I don't relinquish. I keep going. Yeah.

And that's the first thing that's coming out of me. And I'm retired 34-30. I don't relinquish. I keep going. Yeah. And that's the first thing that's coming out of me. And I'm retired at this time, and I still haven't hashed out this whole bad image about me and her, about the days that she kicked me out the house. And you're going to see it here. And people, as far as the sports figures, as far as entertainment people, are going to see the fact that I don't hold back. Yeah. And a lot of people don't hold back. Yeah. And a lot of people

want to hold back their father, their mother, and try to say the most perfect thing about their family. I don't hold back. I just say it straight up. I don't say I hate you,

but I think I just resent it. You still resent her? Oh, I don't resent her now. I think that I've overcame that. I think the fact now I've prepared myself to try to sit there and reach for the higher level

of love with her. But I just got to put one foot in front of the other and try to reach that higher level and say, hey, I apologize. I haven't came to that point yet, but I'm trying to get there. You haven't apologized to her? Right. What do you want to apologize to her for? I was a bad son. A bad individual to you. But I think I'm trying to convince myself if I did a bad son. A bad, you know, individual to you.

But I think, I'm trying to convince myself that if I did that to her, for me, to her, I think I'm looking for her to say the same thing to me. Has she ever apologized? I don't think she didn't know how. I don't know how to apologize to her. I think that's the reason

why we came like that. Wow. What do you think would happen if you guys came together face-to-face and both apologized to each other? It would probably be me. She'd probably be hurt. So she'd probably just be subdued, and I'll be like, look at her, and stuff like that. No wonder the fact that my eyes are saying more than words,

and my body can react to what my eyes are feeling. So basically my eyes are loving her and holding her, but my arms and my body are numbed. So that's how I would do it like that because I never reached over and hugged her like that. I never reached over and cried to her. I don't know how. So I think everything I'm visually seeing to her

and thinking about her is all right there, but she don't know it. But I can physically be able to sit there and express it. And that's what the only thing that's holding me back. I'm doing that for her. Everything else is intact. How long have you been thinking about doing that for? A long time. A decade?

Ten years. Ten years. What will it take for you to make it happen? Me? I put that one foot in front of the other. Over ten years. What will it take for you to make it happen? Me? I put that one foot in front of the other. That's it. It's all about me. I'm not selfish.

I'm there. I just can't. I don't know why I can't turn that corner and just tell her. How often do you see her? Not often enough. Once a year, once every couple years? It goes like five, six years at a time. So you haven't seen her in five years?

I saw her last year. Yeah. She saw my kids for the first time last year. I think they were 17 or 18. What do you think it would do for your heart to have that type of healing and peace? I don't know. If you said, I'm sorry, Mom, and you actually, whether she said I'm sorry or not, but if she said it back, how do you think that would help your heart heal? I don't know.

I think I wouldn't feel it. Really? Because I've been living this life without having the love and attention for 50 years. I don't know how I can take that. Yeah. You know, I think that it would probably takes time for me to be around her a lot to understand the reason why she did what she did and the reason why the things that I did.

I think we need to hash that out. And I think a lot of people, like I said, by me saying this on the documentary, you don't see what I'm talking about. It's not that easy to, you know, to people. Stubborn people that are... Yeah, stubborn people. Stubborn people that are... Yeah, stubborn people. But I'm not stubborn.

I'm very, like, I'm very caring and very loving, but I just don't know how to show because I never knew how to, and I never had a father, and I'm partially a mother, but I love it at death, though. I mean, when I see it on TV, I'm like, wow. And I think I just want people's other opinions to show me how to feel towards her.

If you understand what I mean. Yeah, for sure. And other people to show me how to feel towards her, even towards my kids. It's the same juncture. What are you most grateful for about your mom? She's persevered through a lot. She persevered through a lot. She was in a coma a couple years ago and she came out of it luckily. But I didn't know about it until like six months into it but I never even went to see her then. I think that was very selfish of me

but I just felt like that it was an appropriate time for me to see her. I was just hoping that she came out of it, and luckily she did. She came out. I saw her. She came out the coma, and she came back full recovery. And I went down to see her and brought my kids. So I thought that would be something for her before me or her die. So she wasn't in good shape, but she managed to come and see me. That's good.

She wasn't in good shape, but she managed to come and see me. That's good. But, yeah, like I said, this documentary is going to be historical for kids and for athletes. So I want people to prepare themselves to understand what I'm trying to say. It's very powerful for people. Just really take it all in. And so I go to memory about some of these documentaries. People say, oh, my God, that was awesome.

I said, yep. This is me. This is what it is. Yeah. So. Do you feel like if you never got the chance to say what you really wanted to say and apologize to your mom that you would regret it if she wasn't around here in the future?

I don't know. I believe that I would. You would regret it? I think it would soak in. I think it would soak in. Like I said, I'm. You regret it? I think it wouldn't soak in. I think it wouldn't soak in. Like I said, I'm very honest. Yeah. I don't think it would soak in.

I think if the time, it was sinking for me. I think if I was about to die, then all of a sudden I would have to sit there and look through my eyes why I didn't fulfill something that I should have fulfilled. Wow. I think it would take that much for me to sit there and realize that. And I understand that about myself. And I say, well, I think that's my mentality as far as that is concerned. But I'm so loving

to everybody else. But your mom. But my mother and certain people. But I'm so loving to everybody. You see me. I'm always giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. But I don't realize that if I turn that way, that's the most important thing. And I see it, but I just don't want to reach out for it.

Wow. But it's, like I said, it's coming. It's surely coming. We got to make it happen this year, Dennis. I want you to happen this year, man. We got to commit to it this year. After this documentary is out, now's the time, man. Now's totally coming. We got to make it happen this year, Dennis. I want you to happen this year, man. We got to commit to it this year. After this documentary is out. Now's the time, man.

Now's the time. Darren's going to make it happen. He's going to get a meeting between you guys. It's going to be like. It's going to be the minds over here. Exactly. Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen.

So, yeah, so. I want you to have healing, man. I want you to have peace in your heart. I can't sit down with that guy. I can't sit down with that guy at all. This guy will make me fucking, he'll make me just, oh, God. I got to sit down with somebody that's cool.

It's cool. Maybe get that slowly. He wants to go that fast. So he did it fast. He's got 11, 12 years going on right now. So he's still battling the addiction. Yeah. But to touch on something else, I think a lot of people should understand that, yes, I was an alcoholic.

I still am. I'm not ashamed to say that. Why not? So I always be an alcoholic. I think my presence and my actions show a lot different these days. So I hope people recognize that. But I do recognize that there's totally an issue with that with me. And like I said, I got good people around.

And as long as they're around to keep me, you know, if I sway away that way, they always got enough room to run me back in. Come on, Dennis, stay on that, stay on that. We got you, we got you. Okay, great. So the record be straight. You know about the alcohol problem I had in this documentary. You'll see a lot

of that. So I'm here today living, breathing, staying healthy, trying to. So I got a lot of life to live now and a lot of healing, a lot to look forward to pretty much. That's good, man. Lots of healing. We always got to heal. Every day I'm healing my past

and we all got time to heal. So I got a couple final questions that I want to ask you. This has been really powerful. So thanks for being open and vulnerable and sharing with me everything. This is called the three truths. I asked this question.

I asked this question to everyone at the end. And I want you to imagine it's your last day many years from now. And you get to live as long as you want to live. 25 years? You get to live whenever you want.

25 is like, 25 is 83. You get to live as long as you want from here. Okay. You get to live another 100 years

if you want to. I'd love to live 100 years. 20 years, whatever you want to live. Yep. But it's the last day. You got to like, turn the lights off, right?

Right, cool. And imagine you got to achieve everything you want like turn the lights off right and imagine you got to achieve everything you want to for the rest of your life it's like taking acid right was that exactly

exactly take one of those and turn the lights off no just see how much you gonna trip exactly so

imagine from now until the end of your life you achieve every dream you want to accomplish you apologize to your mom you have a relationship with your family you want you have whatever you want to achieve you go you want to accomplish. You apologize to your mom. You have the relationship with your family

you want. You have whatever you want to achieve. You bring North Korea and America together. Anything you want to do, you make happen. You write the books, the movies, whatever you want to do. You want to ask me? Okay, ask me. But for whatever reason, you've got to take everything with you. All your awards and accomplishments, your body of work.

It's got to go with you to wherever you go next in the next world. And imagine you get to leave behind your three lessons to the world, three things you know to be true about your life and the lessons you've learned that would be lessons you would share to other people after you're gone. What would you say are your three lessons or three truths? Three lessons. That was a difficult question, right?

Three truths, right? Three truths, right? Three truths. Three things you know to be true that you would want to share with other people that they would have. Three lessons. Well, it's very difficult,

but it's a fine line between three lessons, three truths. It's a fine line between the first truth that I give people, you know, the truth about me

that I can leave to people when I leave. I think if you actually truly understand how to live life, live it. If you understand how to live life, live it. So that's one. That's one, okay. Okay. Live life?

Live life. If you understand how to live life, live it. You got time to understand it, but live it if you have the time to live it. What I've learned and what I want to leave to the world. You know, a lot of people say that you have to earn love. If you ever read the Bible and you ever see the truth on TV or visualization, what is love? Do you share it? Do you endure it?

What is love? Can anyone explain that to me? I'm still looking for it. Because love is like a dying breed. What is love to anyone that's living on earth? What is love? Yeah. So that's a hard one right there to really get in depth with

because a lot of people are looking for love in all their own places. Kind of gay, right? But I was looking for love because, you know, love can heal and love can destroy. So what is love? I'm looking for it. Okay. All right. That's number two.

Number two. This is the one I always, always, I think I put this number one, but I'm going to put it, keep it, I'm going to try to show it to the world. I'm not looking forward to die. You're not looking forward to die. I'm not looking forward to die. Forwarding to die. I'm looking how to die. Wow. How do you want to die? That's the question I want to know. How do I want to die?

How? Right now I have no clue if I want to die a certain way. I just don't have a clue how to die. Because I had too many opportunities in my life to die. And I wrote a book called I Should Be Dead by Now. And I believe in it. I should be dead by now, but I'm trying to find a way to know how to die. Wow.

Because I put my life in too many vulnerable situations to put myself in six feet under. But someone has had this light of love that I don't understand. Just keep rising me from the dead and saying, you're not done yet. You're not done yet. Where are you going? I'm not done.

And it keeps me hoping and believing that I can still change. I can still evolutionize the fact that, hey, there's a reason why I can still change and still evolutionize the fact that hey, there's a reason why I'm still moving and grooving, still living still trying to perpetuate myself to understand why am I living because I shouldn't be

so take that thank you guys thank you guys these are powerful I've got one final question before I ask the question So take that. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. These are powerful. I've got one final question before I ask the question. We've got the 30 for 30 out now.

People need to watch this. It's unbelievable. It's powerful. It's moving. So with an Emmy or Oscar, maybe someone with an Oscar nomination, whatever the same, it's good for everybody in the world. Please understand. It's powerful. It's powerful. But it's good for everybody in the world. Please understand. It's powerful.

It's powerful. If he's saying it, come on. You're also on Instagram. You're on TikTok. Now you get to express yourself on social media, which I think is cool. So they can follow you there on all these platforms. What else do you have going on right now that we can support you with or follow or be a part of? There's a lot of things, man, but I don't want to get too in right now.

But I think I've been having this vision about me doing a one-on-one special, talking to one individual. One individual. I didn't want to have this one-hour special just talking to one individual. That's it. And this one individual is the world. One individual is just no script, no nothing. It'll be powerful.

I just want someone to say, you know, and just talk to that one individual. That's it. It's the world. And the world is the fact that I'm talking to this individual. That's the world. And when it's all said and done I'm actually talking to me I'm trying to find a lesson

a life to learn, a lesson to learn I'm actually talking to the world but when it's all said and done I'm actually talking to me trying to make some sense so that's going to be powerful too it's coming, that's what I'm working on right now talking to me, trying to make some sense. So that's going to be powerful, too. It's coming.

That's what I'm working on right now. I'm trying to orchestrate this moment for life, for the world, so one can see what I see. That's what Jesus and God want for everyone. He said, follow me. I'll show you the promised land. I don't want that. I just want to follow me to make everyone happy. That's it.

Yeah. Well, Dennis, I want to acknowledge you, man, because you're a… This guy, the clean-shaven guy over here. Look at him. What, he's like 30 years old? 36. Oh, hey, there you go. I want to acknowledge you, man, because you're authentically you 100%.

No doubt you do what you want. You're authentic. You're expressive. The nails, the hair, you've gotically you 100%. No doubt you do what you want. You're authentic. You're expressive. The nails, the hair, you've got anything you want and you want to feel and express, you do it. And so many people are afraid to express themselves.

I'm not saying you're perfect. And we all got a lot to learn and grow, but the fact that you are able to express yourself fully and really not care what people think is a powerful gift. And I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing on here today. People makes you watch the movie. Final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

No one's ever asked me that. What's my definition of greatness? Came to the right place, man. I know it came to the right place, but it's like, definition of greatness, I don't know. You know, God and Jesus and Moses the definition of greatness, I don't know. You know, God and Jesus and Moses, they didn't foresee greatness, did they? They died.

They left something for us to hold on to, right? What is greatness? You want to see greatness, I guess that you have to go hold hands to people that left us and left us something to hold on to. If you want to go see greatness or be greatness, they're already gone. And people are still looking for what is greatness, what is love, what is life? How do we live? What are we doing here? Why are we moving so fast?

You want to see greatness? Okay, great. Let's go find out what greatness is. It ain't here. It seems like we're all fighting every day. Let's go find out what greatness is. It ain't here. Seems like we all fighting every day. Let's go find greatness. It's somewhere. It ain't here. And everyone always

has something to always look upon. They always like it. Right. You want to go see greatness? That is. Your time will come. He's going to see greatness that is your time will come he's going to see you sooner or later

thank you there you go thank you brother there you have it my friend I hope you enjoyed this one powerful episode blew my mind and it was just an amazing time to be in Dennis' presence and to experience some time with him.

Really loved getting to know him. And I really hope he takes action on connecting with his mother and expressing how he truly feels. Sharing his apology with her, forgiving her, and allowing her to apologize to him. I think it would be so healing for both of them to be able to witness that happen. So I truly hope he takes that on. And I'm glad he was willing to open up and talk about that. And I want you to think about someone in your life that you haven't apologized to that you feel like you should. Maybe you've been holding on a grudge for six months or a year, or maybe it's been decades where you've been holding on to something that is tearing you up inside. And maybe you've been rationalizing with yourself

and saying, it's okay. I don't need to apologize. They hurt me. They weren't there for me. They did this to me. I get it. I felt that way at times as well. And it's not fun doing that and being the one to go and apologize. But there is power in your apology. There is power in finding peace in your heart, whether they accept the apology or not. You coming from a calm, loving place and apologizing and allowing someone else to apologize can be healing for you. So if that's something that you've been thinking about for a long time, or maybe you've forgotten about, it might be time to bring that back up and have the courage to do that today.

Don't wait three weeks or three more years or whatever it may be. Do it right now. Life is now. You never know what's gonna happen tomorrow and the next week, the next year. There's never going to be the right time to do something unless you do it right now. I hope you enjoyed this.

Please share it with a friend, someone you might think this would be powerful for. You can spread the inspiration for someone. You can make an impact in one person's life by just sending them this text message, lewishouse.com slash 854, or copy and paste the link on the Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Just copy and paste the link and text one friend and say, hey, I was thinking about you today. I thought you might find this episode interesting with Dennis Rodman.

Let me know what you think. We'd love to get this message out there. Share it on your social media. If this is your first time here, please subscribe to the podcast on the Apple podcast. Leave us a review and a rating and let me know what you think. I always want to hear your feedback on how we can make this better, how we can make it more insightful and helpful for you in your personal life. Grace Jones said, I believe in individuality, that everybody is special, and it's up to them to find that quality and let it live. What is the personality within you that you've been holding back?

Where could you be more courageous in expressing your true essence, the true personality that only you have within you? No one else can replicate who you are ever in the world, never before, never again. It's only you. If you're hiding behind something, if you're trying to fit in too much, if you're trying to please everyone, you've got to start getting your personality out there even more because different is what's going to help you stand apart from everyone else and help you achieve your dreams even faster. Not trying to fit in, but trying to be more of who you are. I hope this was powerful. I love you so very much.

And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Bye. Outro Music