The School of Greatness - 88 Jim Afremow: Think, Train and Thrive with a Champion's Mind

Episode Date: September 2, 2014

"Champions do not leave the mental game to chance or circumstance." - Jim Afremow To learn more about the show you can get the show notes for free at LewisHowes.com/88

This is episode number 88 with sports psychologist and author Jim Aframo. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome everyone today to the podcast. My name is Lewis Howes. I'm your host.

Super pumped about today's guest. He is a sports psychologist and has worked with a number of the top athletes in the world, Olympians, and also worked with a number of the top athletes in the world, Olympians, and also worked with a lot of business executives as well. And it's all about stepping into the champion's mind. That's actually the title of his book, The Champion's Mind, How Great Athletes Think, Train, and Thrive. Now, I saw this in bookstores a while back, and right away, it caught my attention.

in bookstores a while back and right away it caught my attention because for me, I've applied the champion's mind into business, into other areas of my life. I've learned the skills of being an athlete and what it means to be a champion and then I've used it in other areas of my life and that's exactly what we talk about here in the School of Greatness. So when I saw all of the book, I was like, I've got to get this guy on. And I'm excited to introduce you to him and have him talk about how to tap into and how to have the champion's mind so that you can apply it in your business, in your life, in relationships and everything. Okay, super pumped. And with that, guys, let's go ahead and step into the champion's mind with Jim Aframo. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. Super pumped about this interview today.

It's with Jim Aframo. Is that how you say it? That is correct. Aframo. I've been messing it up beforehand. So Jim Aframo, the champion's mind, how great athletes think, train and thrive. Now, Jim, I'm excited. You're like one of the few people I've actually reached out to, to do a podcast, believe it or not. I get requests to do interviews all the time. And I saw your book on in Barnes and Noble, I believe it was probably like six months ago, whenever it came out, I saw it right on the shelves. And I was

like, this is the book I want. And I was like, I'm going to interview him someday. So I've been the book has been on my shelf for a while. I've been going through lots of different books for interviews. And I'm excited to ask you questions about it. Hey, great to be here. I'm looking forward to our discussion. Yeah. Now, for me, as a sports guy, as an athlete, I used to play lots of different sports, competitive in college and then played professional football for a little bit and now I'm playing with

the USA national team for a sport called Team Handball. So I'm still in this mindset of thinking, training and thriving, right? This is like my dream still. And so these are some amazing practical tips in here. And I want to talk about how athletes can tap into these strategies, but also how entrepreneurs and everyday individuals can tap into the champion's mind. So if you can, I'd love to talk about both of those. And you talk about quick solutions for overcoming your inner resistance. I think a lot of people, when I think about sports and big moments or even public speaking or big moments in life,

whether it be a job interview or something like that, I think about resistance and facing performance anxiety and stress and just resistance in general, resistance for fear of looking bad, for failing, for not getting the results you want or the fear of getting the results you want and then what happens. So can you talk about some of the easier solutions for overcoming your inner resistance? Somebody maybe this conversation that we have inside. Sure, Lewis. I think number one, it's self-awareness is the key to change. And whatever we do, there's going to be risks. So there's a risk or fear of failure. You know, I don't want to put my all into this and whatever it might be and fall short.

And then, you know, do I let myself down? Do I let my family down? Do I let my teammates down? Do I let my coaches down? So there's that fear of failure that, you know, I don't want to put everything into this. And then what's that going to say about me as a person, as an athlete, as a performer? And then on the other hand, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's also fear of success, fear of accomplishing everything you dreamed about. And the reason why I think that is actually a bigger concern is because we never talk about it. And so, number one, the risk of success is that the better I do, the better I have to do. And then the demands placed on me become incessant. And can I live up to those? Do I want to live up to those?

Do I want to be in the spotlight all the time? And so I think sometimes we shrink back from that subconsciously because we don't think we're ready. I remember reading about Annika Sorenstam, the, you know, one of the best women golfers ever that said that early in her career, she, she pretty much tanked a few tournaments because she wasn't ready to, you know, give the victory speech and to be interviewed on, you know, on national TV. And so when she was ready, then she really took off. But it was more because of her mental state that made the difference than her physical skills. Those were really the other thing, too, is that the better we get at something, people come out of the woodwork and try to knock us down. I heard an interesting

quote recently that said, new levels bring new devils. So you got to watch your back. But also, I find this actually particularly important when I work with female athletes, because usually when I work with male athletes, the better they do, the more they're liked by their teammates. And, you know, unfortunately, with women's sports, sometimes the better they do, the least they're liked on their team. And I think that that's not necessarily a knock on women. It's just that women are taught to cooperate so that when you stand apart, then, you know, the girls might be jealous or think that, well, she's not that good. So I think the most successful people I've worked with just had to get over the fact that, you know what, not everyone's going to like me. That's OK. As long as I'm proud of myself, you know, I have peace of mind.

I know I've done my best. Then, you know, I could roll with whatever happens. Right. So, you know, and then in terms of just real quick, in terms of the performance anxiety, it's just realizing that all I can do is the best I can do. I've trained it. Let's go out there and trust it that all I can do is the best I can do. I've trained it. Let's go out there and trust it. And I can live with whatever happens. Right. Gotcha. Yeah. It's kind of just that self-awareness like you talked about. It's like I'm putting everything out there that I've learned, that I've practiced, and there's nothing else I can do if I just give my best. Right. Absolutely. Your best is the best. And the motto of my book is think gold and never settle for silver. And that's really what I mean by that is your personal best really truly is your ultimate

victory. Right. That's interesting. And we were just talking about the interview with Sean Johnson where she got three silver medals and one gold. And she said that she gave her best in those silvers. And she doesn't feel bad because she went all out and it wasn't, it was up to judgment and, you know, someone else might've done better or whatever, but she gave her best in that moment. And that's all she can be. She can't be upset about it. Absolutely not. In fact, she should be really proud of herself. And Natalie Cook, she's a five-time Olympian, Australian outdoor, you know, beach volleyball player. And she shared with me that when she told people that she was going for the gold medal in her event,

when she was a lot younger, people thought she was crazy. And she eventually did win the gold medal. She won it at home in the 2000 Sydney Olympics. And she was asked, well, what if you didn't win the gold medal? What would you have done? And she had a perfect response. She said, I would have painted whatever medal I had gold. And I thought that that was just a great way of looking at it. So it really is about our personal goal. Interesting. I like it.

And as in the champion's mind, any champion's mind, I like this. You have all these different strategies and tips and things that they can practice. And early on in the book, you talk about daily gut check questions. And I love this. I want to have you give me a reason why this is powerful and why athletes or entrepreneurs or anyone should set this for themselves. But basically, you say at sunrise, ask yourself, how will I be a champion today, which is setting the intention for what you want to create that day. And then at night or at sunset, you say, you ask yourself, how was I a champion today?

So you're being accountable. So why is it important to set the intention every day and keep accountable for your dreams and your goals and achieving becoming a champion or whatever it is you're doing? Well, today is all we really ever have. Um, there's a, there's a sign at a bar I once saw, and I think, you know, uh, I've read this before, so there must be a lot of these signs out there, but, uh, the sign at the bar I saw said free bear tomorrow. And you know, what happens if you show up tomorrow? There's no, you know, it's, uh, you know, there is no tomorrow. Um. And so today is what gets us to tomorrow. And so, you know, I really am all about, you know, it's a win the day attitude.

It's, you know, today counts. And a lot of times we BS ourselves, to be honest. We procrastinate. We put things off until we're perfectly ready. And that day never comes. So even if you're at 75% today, don't use that as an excuse. Get 100% out of your 75% and you'll be well on your way to accomplishing your goal. So today plus today plus today gets you where you want to be.

I like that. I think it's, I mean, you've got to have some urgency in whatever it is you want to create. You can't just take action tomorrow. You've got to take action now every moment. And you've got to continue to take action in the moment now today because there is no guarantee tomorrow, whatever it may be. And you may not be able to have that opportunity. So I like that thought.

Now, on one of the pages, I think it was 19, you talk about, this is interesting. I want to get your take on this. You mentioned how good people skills can facilitate and or impede your pursuit of excellence. Now, what does that actually mean? Why would good people skills impede the pursuit of excellence? Well, coaches, their perceptions of their athletes will determine, you know, who gets to start and playing time. And if I'm a coach, I want someone that demonstrates that they're all in, that they bought in to what the team is all about and that they get along well with their teammates.

They challenge their teammates, but they support their teammates on game day, obviously. their teammates on game day, obviously. Um, and that, um, they, they're, they add positive energy, you know, or they add chemistry to the team instead of being the one that spoils it. So, you know, we are social creatures and so you have to go along to get along when you're part of a team. Now that doesn't mean you can't be a leader and challenge and do all those good things, but it has to be for the benefit of the team. Okay. So what are some strategies for developing good social relationships then? I think being direct, being honest, sometimes giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes we read in, we make attributions about others. Someone cuts us off in traffic and we think, oh, what a jerk, when maybe they didn't see us or maybe they're on their way to the hospital

and they're concerned about a family member. So I think sometimes it's important to give someone, you know, to, to give each other the benefit of the doubt if someone's having a bad day, but if it continues, then we need to have an honest conversation with them and say, you know, basically how do we want this to turn out? How can we get along better? How can we push each other in a positive direction? Right. right. I like that. Now, I always hated it when coaches would play favorites.

It's like even when the kid or the athlete would mess up all the time, it's like sometimes they would just let them continue to mess up because they liked them. And if the other athlete messed up once in a blue moon, it's like they could never mess up and they still couldn't get it right. I never liked that with coaches when they, it's always seemed unfair. So I like the idea of being direct, being kind of like open in that communication as opposed to having your athletes wonder like what's happening, you know,

are they playing favorites, things like that. Mental imagery. This is something I'm a big believer in and something i practice constantly i practice it in the morning i practice it at night for sports for my dreams for my goals everything i want to create i'm constantly going through mental visualization and you say mental imagery visualized to actualize now some, some people may think, well, isn't that kind of like law of attraction stuff where you think it and it just happens and you start you think you want to make a million dollars and then you get a million dollar check. And obviously it's not that. So can we talk about what is mental imagery and how does it work to enhance performance?

Sure. What is mental imagery and how does it work to enhance performance? Sure. It's basically seeing and feeling your performance before you actually do it. And, you know, perfect example. I don't know if you remember this, but during the Sochi Olympics, Michaela Schifrin, she became the youngest slalom champion in Olympic alpine skiing history. Wow. She had just turned age 18. champion Olympic alpine skiing history. Wow. She had just turned age 18. And so she was asked by reporters prior to the competition, you know, what's it like? This is your first Olympics.

And I loved her response. She said, I've been here before in my head for sure. To everybody, this is my first Olympics. But to me, I've been here a thousand times before. Wow. So talk about using visualization so that when she got there, you know, almost been here, done that. Now I can just go out there and compete. The neat thing about visualization is we can use it for so many different purposes. So, for example, if you're injured, instead of just sitting at practice, watching your teammates run through drills, you can visually practice running through those same drills. And some of the greatest, uh, athletes of all time have, have talked about that. And I call them mental reps. Yeah. They get their mental reps in so that when you leave the game physically, you don't have to leave it mentally. Um, so that is so important. Another thing to do

would be, you know, picture yourself dealing with all types of adversity and overcoming it, whether, you know, different, you know, inclement weather, or, you know, it's the last, you know, it's the last shot of the game. So that when you're in those situations, it's more familiar. And you have more confidence. and that you just are able to let your body fly and reach its goal. And you talk about, you say when visualizing, some people might sit and think, okay, now how do I actually do this? Do I see myself? Am I looking above from bird's eye view? Is it me doing the reps? Is it me looking at myself from a different person's point of view? And you talk about in the book, you say, strive to experience the action in a 3D form,

the first or from the first person point of view through your own eyes, as opposed to a third portion point of view through the eyes of a spectator. And you say to see it, feel it and enjoy it. Now, what does that actually mean? Well, if you look through your own eyes so that if you're sitting at your couch or at practice and you're visualizing yourself performing, seeing it from that internal perspective makes it a little bit easier to feel yourself performing as well versus if you're watching yourself, let's say, on TV. Sure. But really seeing it and feeling it. So we're visual. We're so visual and sports are so visual that you really want to see it, you know, so brighten the colors, uh, you know, uh, bring

the image closer, you know, really make it so that you're right there. Feeling it in your body is important too. So when I work with a golfer with your first rehearsal swing, see the ball going to your target with your second rehearsal swing, feel the body making the swing that you want to make. And then just go let it rip. And so the enjoying it part is so important because enjoying yourself is how we let all of our skills come out. And so it gets us in the flow state, right? Yeah, it gets us in the flow state. And if you're, you know, and I think that's one of the misconceptions we all have.

And you mentioned coaches sometimes have, you know, that, you know, coaches have certain ways of looking at things. And sometimes coaches look at, well, if you're having fun, you're not taking it serious enough. And my response is if you're taking it too serious, you know, lots of luck. So, you know, I'd rather you be a little more playful and you know i would say it's fun with a purpose it's not like you're goofing around but if you're not enjoying yourself you're doing it wrong and if and if a team isn't really enjoying themselves then the coach is doing something wrong so it's all stressful and work and you know strict attitudes it's like what's the point of playing a game in the first place. Absolutely. And when you look at the best athletes in the world, we don't say, uh, they work at gymnastics or they work at golf. We say they

play, you know, they play their sport and you know, the rest of us work at it and then wonder why we fall short. So my whole thing with practice versus competition is be a little more serious in practice. Uh, you know, like we talked about earlier, make today count. How am I getting better today is your attitude. But then when you get to the competition, to be honest, it's just a fancy practice. Uh, it's just a special day. It's just, it's just, you know, it's a time to go out there and really express yourself. It's not a time to prove yourself. You should have already proven yourself during the off season and during the training phase. But when you go out there for a competition, just go out there and free wheel.

Yeah, I like that. The days that I was always the more relaxed and enjoying it, it was always a better performance than if I was serious and had to do well and was stressing out, obviously. So it's interesting. A couple examples from my own experience back in college. I used to watch, I was a decathlete and also played football in college. And I would watch a highlight film of this great wide receiver doing all these incredible plays and catches and running the routes.

And I would watch this pretty much every day before practice. I would watch this and try to embody what I saw in the video. try to embody what I saw in the video. And I would do the same thing for the decathlon with, uh, an event I was trying to really learn at the time, which was a pole vault. For me, it was like the hardest event to just learn, um, to be good at. And I would watch this like all-star DVD pole vaulters kind of highlight reel over and over and over again every day while I was in the track season. over and over and over again every day while I was in the track season. And I just felt like having something to mock and to visualize on TV

or on a video screen but also running through it in my head afterwards and visualizing it was so helpful in me achieving my goals and actually creating those same results. It's like I was able to recreate what I saw on screen and in my head in real life. So I really understand the value of doing this type of visualization. And you've got a lot of great examples in here in the book. So that's awesome stuff. The next thing that, again, I love, everything in the book you talk about, for me, it's just like reaffirming what I was doing was working. And it gives some good points.

The next one is self-talk. And you have some interesting research that you have here on self-talk. I believe it's on page 40, where you talk about tasks requiring fine motor skills need instructional self-talk, whereas tasks requiring strength and endurance needed motivational self-talk. Now, can you talk about what that actually means and how to apply that? Sure. If you're doing a complex task, let's say a golf swing or even pole vault, you might need to remind yourself of maybe one or two things before your attempt that are mechanical so that you could bring the whole movement together.

But if you're, let's say, running or doing some sort of endurance sport, it's not so much about the technique. You probably already have that down, you know, when it's time to compete. So it's just about pushing yourself. Overcoming the pain. Yeah. And realizing, too, that there's a lot of pleasure on the other side of that pain. But yeah, it's really because your body, you know, what do we say in, in like cycling is shut up

legs, you know? And so, um, that's where you got to, you know, the body wins when the mind refuses to give in. So for endurance sports, uh, you know, whether swimming or running triathlon, hiking, those are, those are the kinds of events where it's got to be motivational. You know, push, push, push, go, go, go. And that will help you get through that rough patch that you're experiencing in the moment. Right. But if you're running and you're saying, okay, make sure to relax your shoulders and put your arms at 90 degrees and run on your toes and do this, you're probably going to get out of the zone and confused as opposed to wanting to push forward. But as you know, as a pole vaulter, for me, it was really key for my

my coach to be like, okay, focus on hitting your mark with your foot or focus on driving your knee up. Just like one or two simple things where I just did focused on that and then allowed myself to go through the rest of the motion. That was really helpful for me. Yeah, you don't want to before you're jumping a pole vault, for example, you don't want to be. Come on, let's go. Yeah, or giving yourself a full lesson either. But yeah, a couple of quick reminders gets you in tune with what you want your body to accomplish. I like that.

And even you mentioned visualization with pole vault. I've worked with a lot of pole vaulters. And that is so important because you can only take a certain number of jumps in practice. So that's where mental practice comes into play, where either between jumps or let's say at the end of practice, visualize yourself making several more attempts. And one time I worked with an elite college pole vaulter who had a mental block at 17 feet. He was a freshman. And I said, okay, close your eyes and visualize yourself

clearing 17 feet, clearing the bar. And he wasn't able to do that. And so I said, every day, practice yourself doing it. He said, after a while, it became like playing a video game for him. You know, these are like physical skills. The more you do it, the better at it you get. And he wasn't able to clear 17 feet until he was actually able to picture it in his mind first. So I thought that was really interesting. Wow. That is really interesting. And I feel like that could be a great translator for people in business as well when it comes to building a business, launching something,

creating something, making a certain amount of income. I think a lot of people when they don't believe that they deserve to make over a hundred grand or a million dollars, they're probably never going to make it. But when they start seeing it happening, and I don't know the exercises you could do, but like seeing yourself creating what you want to create and seeing yourself depositing checks in the bank or some type of act like that maybe. That's kind of interesting. I'm visualizing it first. I can give you a personal example. When I was writing my book, The Champion's Mind, I actually, this was more spontaneous. I didn't necessarily plan that I was going to do this, but I visualized and I could see it and feel the book in my hand. So before it was even accepted by a publishing company. And so, you

know, I wasn't obviously able to look at what that exact cover would look like, but I could, I could, you know, almost with my hands, you know, tactically, tactilely, uh, feel the book. And so those kinds of things help. Now you mentioned the law of attraction. There's nothing wrong with visualizing great things, but you also have to have the law of commitment to follow up on it. Right. Yeah. You got to take action once you visualize it. Yeah. You have to see it, feel it, and then actually do it. I like it. And you talk about some breathing. Actually, before I get into that, the breathing stuff, what tips do you give your athletes to get refocused when they get distracted or they drift off? You're going to get distracted. And whether it's from a mistake or just human nature, our minds will wander. So you need to have a cue word

or a key phrase that will get you back on track immediately. And so some of my favorite ones are be all here. So if you show up to know, if you show up to practice, but your head's still in class, or you show up to a meet, and you're thinking about maybe what didn't go so well last meet, you got to tell yourself, be all here, you know, every time your mind starts to drift, and you know, or next place, but you know, next play will be my best play, or effort and focus, you know, so you can have some fun phrases as well. Right, right, right. Yeah, next play or leave it behind and let's move forward, whatever. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, all the way through is another good one.

Or just even if, like we mentioned endurance sports, go, go, go, push, push, push. Just real quick little sayings to yourself are important. To get refocused, yeah. I like that. Yeah, because when you think about it, if you're a hundred percent focused, then you're not at full power. So Michael Phelps says, uh, in interviews, he said, uh, when I'm focused, nothing in the world could stop me. And so if you're focused, you know, I like your chances. If you're distracted, you're going to be defeated. Yeah. Interesting. Or you may, if, or if the other team is less

focused, then you may win, but it's not going to look pretty. Exactly. Something like that. Yeah. Let's talk about breathing. Now there's people, I don't feel like enough people understand the importance of breathing and practicing breathing, actually not just breathing in general on autopilot, but practicing it deliberately. On the chapter on breath control, there's an interesting quote that says, your breathing determines whether you are at your best or whether you are at a disadvantage from an author and teacher on breathing practices. Now, why is breathing so important for athletes and just, you know, high performing individuals in general? Under perceived pressure, we tend to hold our breath. And then, you know, obviously, we're not going to have the oxygen to our system that we need, but also our muscle

tension will increase. And muscle tension is the number one enemy in sports. And so if you're a swimmer, you're going to go slower. If you're a pole vaulter, you're not going to jump as high. So deep breathing helps to clear our mind of, you know, whether stress or expectations, those kinds of things, but then it also relaxes our body. So I think it's important to have either a meditation practice or just throughout your day to take a deep breath and notice whether you're breathing easily and deeply. Okay. And you have kind of three simple steps to taking deep breath and centering your breathing.

And I wanted to see if we could actually, you could maybe coach me through this if you're interested in doing that so people can kind of like follow along as an example. Okay. Do you know? Yep. Okay. if you're interested in doing that so people can kind of like follow along as an example. Okay. Do you know? Yep. Okay. So the 15-second centering breath is what I call it. And I want you to go ahead and breathe in through the nose, if you can,

for the count of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. And go ahead and hold it for one and two. And then breathe out through the mouth for a count of one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and eight. How was it? It was hard to breathe in that long and then hold it. It's a big breath, isn't it? It's a big breath. Yeah. And usually what we do is we think we're breathing deeply. So it's funny. I've had some athletes share with me, you know, when I

bring up the topic, like, Oh, I already know about deep breathing. And so my response is, let me see your deep breath. And it's a, you know, to be honest, it's a very shallow breath. And so when we take a full deep breath, it's not like you're going to be taking a 15 second breath all day long. Uh, that would be impossible, but this is just a reboot your, your breathing. Uh, but, uh, but a deep breath is a real deep breath and it's, and it's all the way in and all the way out. And the key is the exhalation here is a little bit longer and that's the relaxation response. Most of us, when we think about taking a deep breath, we just think about the inhale and just taking that big inhalation. And that's actually the stressful part. Exhalation is the key. And that's when I want it to be a little bit longer, get all that air out. And then that really helps you to feel your best. So like a lot of athletes

might hyperventilate a little bit and, you know, right before competition. And what they're really doing is they're not exhaling enough. Really? Yeah. So they're quick exhaling and inhaling long. Exactly. And notice the effect that has on them. So the key is if you're really feeling stress or tension, pressure, check in with your breathing, take a big full breath and then exhale a little bit longer, you know, a couple, couple seconds longer, uh, than you inhale. And you'll

notice right away how helpful it is. Um, I liked that a lot. Yeah. One of my favorite, uh, favorite, uh, uh, quotes on breathing is, uh, it's an old Chinese proverb and it says, if you know the art of breathing, you have the strength, wisdom, and courage of 10 tigers. Whoa, that's cool. Not too bad. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. And what I noticed when I was doing it is I immediately breathe through my chest as opposed to through my diaphragm, uh, which, you know, I wasn't concentrating on it. So I just went to my natural default, which the breathing through the chest. And it was a stressful, you know, it was challenging at the end. So definitely breathe from the stomach, right? Yeah, you want to breathe, you know, think of it more as a belly breath than from the chest. And so even though you're not really

breathing from your belly, like you said, you're breathing from your lungs, you're breathing from your diaphragm. But you want to push your diaphragm down and your belly starts to extend a little bit. And then when you breathe out, it starts to come back in. So you could almost one way is to imagine that you're there's a balloon in your belly. And so you fill up the balloon, give it a color, fill up the balloon, hold it and then let all the air out of the balloon. But, yeah, we have a tendency to hold our breath or breathe too shallowly from, from the chest. You say, give it a color. Yeah. Make it a little bit more, uh, uh, more creative and memorable. And, um, you know, it adds a little

bit to the experience. So, you know, if I'm working with a team and I say, uh, or, you know, individual athletes say, you know, take a big belly breath, you know, picture a balloon and then go ahead and do it. Then, you know, I kind of a trick question is what color was your balloon? And if they didn't have a color, then, you know, maybe they weren't doing it right. So, um, so giving it a color is pretty good. What's a good color to use? I think blue, anything that's relaxing and calming. So I think a light blue, blue, you know, uh, uh, something reminds you of the ocean water. I think blue anything that's relaxing and calming so I think a light blue blue you know uh uh something reminds you of the ocean water I think it's really helpful because the neat thing here it's such a mind body connection that when you relax your body you clear your mind and uh you

know when you're playing your best your your mind is like still water uh so So this is a great technique for being in the right frame of mind. Now, is visualization, mental visualization or mental rehearsal, plus breathing, plus meditation, kind of all wrapped? Could it all be kind of the same thing? There's a lot of overlap, but you could also use them together. So for example, before you visualize, so let's say I'm going to sit down and visualize myself going through my golf swing or my long jump or whatever sports skill, you could focus on deep breathing for a little bit to kind of get the garbage out of your head to relax your body and then go through your visualization routine, you know, or you could meditate in between those two. So, um, it's really about quieting your mind

and relaxing your body. And then really that's going to make the imagery even more powerful. Interesting. Okay, cool. But definitely breathing, visualization, meditation, doing some practice daily. I like to do it in the morning and at night but i would you recommend that doing something daily is going to support you in being a high performer as an athlete or in business absolutely you can uh champions do not leave the mental game to chance or circumstance so the great thing about this is uh in terms of mental training, is it need not be time consuming. So 10, 15 minutes in the morning or before practice or, you know, and or at night can be really helpful. Also, mental skills and strategies can be used in parallel with what you're already doing. So they don't need to necessarily take up any time at all.

So, for example, if you're waiting in line at practice to do a drill, uh, go ahead and picture yourself accomplishing it before you actually do it, or go ahead and take a good centering breath or, you know, check in with your body language to make sure that you're standing tall and, you know, walking strong. So it, it doesn't have to be time consuming at all. And, uh, but yeah, you're right. Doing it on a regular basis is how we really get it down to a science. Now, let me ask a quick question about this. If I'm in line, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

If I'm in line about to go do a route in practice, and if I think about what I'm going to do right before I do it and start getting in my head a little too much, wouldn't that kind of mess me up or maybe not keep me in the flow of just like stepping up and doing it? Or do you think it would be okay? Well, look at, you know, again, it's what works best for you. There's no right way. Practice it. what works best for you. There's no right way. So, for example, I've worked with NBA players and some of them like to visualize the ball going into the basket, you know, making their free throw before they shoot it. Other ones say, you know what, I don't really need to do that. I just take

my deep breath. So, you know, other ones have their routine where they bounce the ball a certain number of times and they get the feeling in their body of how they want to shoot the ball. So whatever works best for you. I've worked with NFL wide receivers that when the quarterback is calling the play, they're actually visualizing themselves. If the ball's coming to them, they're visualizing themselves making the catch. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay, cool. You talk about actually something that I do and I've been doing since I was playing college sports, but also when I transitioned into kind of the business goals and dreams that I had, what I started to do was I would have a dream or a goal that I wanted to achieve within about a year. And I would actually write it down specifically with the date and frame it kind of like a certificate, like it's already been achieved. And I would put it

up there on the wall and I would look at it constantly every day and then take the actions to create that happening. But I would visualize it kind of like you did where you had the book in your hand and you saw it before it was even sold. That's what I would do for different goals. And do you ever talk about that kind of like framing goals or creating like an award like it's already happened with what you want to achieve? Yeah, I think you need to be crystal clear on what you want to accomplish. And, I think you need to be crystal clear on what you want to accomplish. Right. And so have a big picture goal or several big picture goals and then use each day to chip away at those goals. But I really like creating an environment of excellence around you that prompts you to stay on the right track and a positive track. So I, you know, I think dream

boards are great. I think getting a whiteboard and on a whiteboard, write down some of your favorite quotes and, you know, little acronyms, like how bad you want it, um, writing what you want to accomplish. And the thing with, uh, if you write down your goals and you tell others about it, research has shown that you're 30% or around there, you know, it depends on the person in the study and what they're looking at, but 30% more likely to accomplish those goals. So rather than if you just keep them in your head and, and, um, you know, cause they could be out of sight, out of mind. So I think, uh, I think writing your goals down is really helpful. One, this, you reminded me of one, uh, Olympic athlete I worked with. And the first session we met,

I said, tell me about your goals. And he said, hold on a second. He took his goals out of his wallet. He was on an index card and he showed me his goals. And so I thought that that was so cool versus some athletes I work with that aren't as accomplished. I might say, what are your goals? And you know, I don't know. And so one of the sayings I really like in sports psychology is a vague goals lead to vague outcomes. So you want to be crystal clear on what you want to accomplish. And it's totally okay to switch around those goals if you need to, depending on whether your interests change or whether you surpass your goals. So you don't want to get tunnel vision necessarily or get rigid about your goals. But I do think that writing them down and displaying them

helps you not to BS yourself. How bad do you really want it? What are you willing to do to accomplish what you say you want to accomplish? Right, right. And I like that you said you can shift your goals at some time if you want to. You don't have to be attached to the outcome. Because I've seen a lot of people in business be so attached to this one business idea, this goal that they want to launch something or, or get something to a certain level. And it's just not working and they're trying everything and it's not working. And it seems like more stress for them than anything. And it's really, the goal just isn't effective. So I don't think it's, you should be afraid to change it. You know, you're not breaking your commitment or

you're not failing. It's just, uh, you're shifting your goals. Yeah. And your priorities. And I think that, so you want to have like a Western approach, which is, you know, write down what you want to accomplish and then maybe, uh, include a little bit of an Eastern approach, more of a Taoist approach that you're open to everything that comes your way. I like that. I like that. So, yeah, I think goals are important. And, you know, and never settle for those goals. I think that one of the things is we sell ourselves too short. Think big, you know, but act bigger, like we talked about. And, you know, dare to do great things. You know, we get excited about a lot of pro athletes that we might follow or our favorite sports teams. Well, they have big goals and dreams. Why not us? Right. Yeah.

I like that. Um, going into athletes recovery, uh, you talk about five stages of loss and athlete goes through after an injury. And I wanted to see if you could share these stages because I'm interested to talk about it after I've been injured and I've experienced this and wonder if you can talk about it. Well, injuries are part of sports, as you know. And in fact, the first time I worked with an NFL player, this was about 2003. During my intake interview with him, I asked if he was dealing with any injuries at the time. And he laughed and he said, at this level, we're always injured. It's just how bad, you know, so athletes are never at a hundred percent, but, um, in terms of injuries, we tend to go through the similar,

uh, group of stages to, uh, to a death or a loss. Um, and so, you know, there might be some shock, um, some denial, you know, it's not as bad as what the doctor said. There's, you know, there might be some shock, some denial. You know, it's not as bad as what the doctor said. There's you know, there's there could be some anger. You know, why now? Why me? There could be some sadness or depression. You know, I'm never going to get my game back.

And eventually it leads to acceptance. If you go through the stages and really by acceptance, I don't mean that you are happy about what happened, but you're going to make the best of what happened. And so the key with dealing with injuries is to make your injury rehab your new sport until you get your game back. So it's amazing how many athletes I've worked with that when they're injured, you know, I don't see that same attitude, that same swagger. You know, they look like, you know, they've lost all their self-esteem. And then when they go to the training room to rehab, they don't think about using visualization or they forget about the importance of self-talk

or good body language. So the key is recovering from an injury should be considered a physical challenge just like your sport. Wow. And so. It becomes the sport. It is your sport. Yeah. And so obviously, like we talked about before, if you go to practice, you know, go run through the same reps that your teammates are going through just in your head. You know, a lot of times we might think, well, that's not that's not the same.

And, you know, well, it's it's you can do and, and it can definitely help. Um, but, uh, but dealing with an injury, um, you know, anyone can get injured, but are you going to be an all-star and are you going to have a great attitude during the recovery process? And that should be your aim. Right. Right. Yeah.

You know, I'm a big proponent of gratitude. It's, I ask people constantly, what are they most grateful for on my voicemail? If you want to leave me a message, you have to tell me what you're most grateful for that day, just because I feel like that energy brings raises all you know, boats to the highest level or whatever, I guess, right? You talk about some strategies of action to keep gratitude at the forefront of a daily practice. And you also say gratitude is one of the acts of most successful people. It's what most successful do is they're grateful.

Can you talk about some strategies for having us be grateful throughout the day? Yeah, I think you want to make sure that you have an attitude of gratitude. Not only to feel your best, but to perform your best. And one athlete recently shared with me said, he said, you've been really helpful. And I said, well, what's been helpful? And he said, you helped me stay positive in a negative sport. And I think when you really think about it, any competitive, you know, any competitive, you know, or demanding endeavor can be negative because you could always do better. You know, there's always people trying to knock you down. It takes a lot of hard work and, you know, any competitive, you know, or demanding endeavor can be negative because you could always do better. You know, there's always people trying to knock you down. It takes a lot of hard work and, you know, patience and commitment.

And so we have to keep on a positive channel, you know, thought channel during that time. And gratitude is one way to do that. So whether once a day or once a week, you know, at the end of the day, at the end of the week, write down, jot down some things that happened, you know, earlier in the day or earlier in the week that you really appreciated. So maybe someone complimented you about your work ethic, or maybe, you know, a coach gave you a really good tip that helped you with your mechanics. Or maybe you just heard a, you know, a new song by your favorite band. And it sounds corny, but it's really powerful. So I remember at Arizona State University, where I worked for a long time with the student athletes there, I started saying,

well, I got to practice what I preach. I got to walk the talk. So I started doing a gratitude journal. And I remember just one day I was walking around campus going, wow, this is a beautiful campus. And look at that bird. And wow, this, wow, you know, like, you know, this is just a really pretty place. And so I realized, you know, that I, that I was probably taking the campus for granted. You know, I was just used to it. And so the attitude of gratitude and having a gratitude journal just takes a few minutes here or there, and it really has a profound impact on your mood. I think part of it is, you know, I mentioned that sports can be negative, on your mood. I think part of it is, you know, I mentioned that sports can be negative,

but our brains are hardwired, you know, our brain is hardwired to focus on the negative, and that's for survival purposes. So if you're walking through a jungle and you miss a beautiful rainbow, well, that's not going to ruin your life. But if you miss the tiger or the lion behind the bush, you know, that might be the last thing you see. So I think we're, you know, we're usually thinking about, well, what we didn't accomplish or what didn't go well, those kinds of things. So I think that the attitude of gratitude approach really helps you stay on a positive track because things are a lot better than usually we give themselves credit for. Right. No, whenever, you know, and I don't think that's, I would think you'd probably agree with, you know, if you have an experience that sucks or you get injured or stuff just isn't going your way, I think you can still experience your experience, experience your feelings, don't mask them and just say, oh, everything's okay, I'm grateful. But would you agree to that? Like, it's okay to at least experience how you're feeling but not to be stuck on it forever?

Yeah, no one's positive all the time. Right. And I don't know if you'd really want that. I think the key is to be vitally engaged in life. And if you are doing the things you value most and giving it your best effort, if you do that, then you're going to be happier more often but you're not going to be happy all the time. Uh, and, and when something does happen,

you know, if you, if you lose a tough game, well, then it should feel like someone punched you in the stomach. It's going to hurt for a little bit, but I totally agree with you. Don't pitch a tent in those feelings, you know, don't stay stuck. So, uh, feel what you need to feel, talk about what you want, need to talk about, um, and then move on. Um, and part of that is having a debriefing process. So in the book I talk about, you know, after, uh, you know, it could be a tournament or a competition or even the season, you know, what went well. Um, you know, a lot, it's amazing how many times I ask athletes, you know, tell me what you did really well last competition. Oh, I didn't do anything perfectly. Well,

I didn't say perfect. I said, what went well. And, you know, as we talk, they start saying, oh, OK, I did this. OK. And I did that. OK. You know, give yourself credit where credit's due and then maybe just pick one or two things that didn't go well. And how am I going to turn those around? How am I going to work on those so that I do better even next time? So what I find with most most high achievers and, you know, and most serious athletes and, you know, business professionals is I think they're afraid of doing that because they think that, well, if I'm too nice to myself, if I give myself credit for things that I did well, then I'm going to settle for less than my best. And I've never seen that. I think when we start giving ourselves credit for what we did, what we do well, then we're even more motivated to keep doing it. And so I think it's human nature, though, to when we're doing super well is to rest on our laurels a little bit. And what I found with champions is the better they do, the harder they start working and they never think I have it totally made.

think I've had it totally made. So I don't, you know, so the key is when things aren't going well is, you know, have the confidence in yourself and the patience to, to move through it. And then when things are going really well, step on the gas, you know, keep working really hard because there's that tendency to say, uh, you know, I think I, I made it well, that's not going to last very long. You got to keep gunning for it. So I love when coaches say, Hey, we can't win. You know, we, we were not repeating. Uh, we're not going to try to, to, uh, defend our title. We're going to try to win a new one. And I think that's kind of the attitude I'm getting, you know, that I'm, I'm trying to, to, uh, talk about right there because you're always gunning for something positive. Right. Right. Interesting. Now I got a couple of questions left, but I love this book,

so I want everyone to go get it. But you talk about becoming a champion sleeper. And I've had a sleep expert come on and talk about the importance of sleep for productivity, for living longer, for getting bigger, faster, stronger, everything. Now, why is it important to be a champion sleeper if you want to be a champion in sports or in life? Resting well is mandatory and everyone works hard. You know, when you start getting into the elite high school, college, you know, pro Olympic athletes, they're all going to work hard for the most part. but I think one thing that can help separate, uh, the top from the, you know, from all others is they balance the hard training with, uh, with regeneration and good recovery. And so what you end up doing, if you're burning the candle at both ends,

you're going to wear down. It's kind of like leaving your face, you know, if you had your favorite race car and you left it running all the time, it's going to eventually break down. So you gotta, you to turn it off. You've got to take out the key from the ignition and give it time to rest and recover. And then you start it up again the next day. So the goalie for the U.S. World Cup team, he mentioned that he takes an hour nap every day between then, uh, goes to bed by 10 o'clock every night. So the best at, and I think it was Tim Howard or Tim Howard.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, and he, he, he talked about how in, you know, just recently in interviews that how important his rest and recovery is, especially as he's getting older as a player. And so the best athletes in the world are very, very serious about protecting their sleep and their rest and recovery time. And, you know, and even having some time where they just shut off their brain. So they play video games or they just hang out with friends just so they're not grinding every second of every day. But with athletes that aren't getting enough sleep, usually what I find is they're

more likely to get sick. You know, their body starts to, uh, you know, their, their, their physiological defenses start to break down a little bit, but then also they're more likely to get injured. So, you know, cause they go out on the field and they don't have the reaction time they normally have if they're fatigued. So, um, so you want to make sure that you work hard, but you balance that with resting well. Yeah. And in the book, you've got a whole page on some tips on becoming a champion sleeper.

So I'll let people, uh, get it to get that information. Um, what's a, you know, last couple of questions here. What's a simple game plan that everyone can follow to have a champion's mind, whether they're an athlete or have a big dream in business. What's, what's a simple game plan? I think the thing in the book, I have a mental game checklist. So what I would recommend is go through the mental skills and strategies that I mentioned. So whether it's enjoying, you know, enjoyment, whether it's confidence, focus, and rate yourself on a one to 10 or one to 100 scale and pick out what you're

doing well. And how can I continue doing that? Well, and then, uh, maybe select one or two key areas for, for growth and then decide I'm really going to hit those areas. And, uh, I'm going to have daily goals to follow through with it. And that's going to help you get to where you want to be. So for example, if, uh, let's say that you, your body language isn't very good and you've heard that from, you know, teammates and so on, then decide for the next 21 days or whatever it is that I'm going to act like every time I show up to practice, I'm going to act like a champion. And that means, you know, my head's up, you know, big smile on my face. If I don't make a great play, I'm going to, you know, clap my hands,

slap my thigh and say, next play, best play, you know, but I'm always going to look like I'm winning. And I love what Nick Saban, the head football coach at University of Alabama, he tells his players that if your body language is down, you're telling the other team beat me now. Wow. So body language is key. And our thoughts and feelings and behaviors are all interconnected. So if you act like a champion, it's easier to think and feel like a champion. But pick some of these mental skills. I discuss them in great detail in the book.

And then decide, you know what, for the next X number of days, write it on your whiteboard or put it on a sticky note and say, you know what, in addition to what I'm going to already do at practice today, I'm going to work on my breathing or my body language or my self-talk or my visualization. And it's amazing just in a few days, a few weeks of doing this that it could make significant positive change. Wow. And what was that you said earlier? You said thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are all interconnected. Is that what you said? Yeah. So if your body language sucks, then, um, there's probably some stinking thinking going on inside your head. And, you know, if you're not feeling what, you know, like if you're feeling angry, sad, depressed, well, you're definitely not having positive thoughts. And your body language probably doesn't look too good either.

So, you know, and physiologically, too, if you have butterflies in your stomach, you're probably thinking, you know, you're getting, you're losing perspective and worrying about the outcome before you even get there. So it's kind of like four wheels on the on a race car, you know, when one moves, the other ones move. So that's where you always have an opportunity to work on one ear. So if you're not feeling good, check in with your thinking. If your thinking isn't going too well, well then fake it till you make it by having good body language. Man, I love this stuff. Uh, last two questions. First one is what are you most grateful for recently?

I'm really grateful for the positive feedback I've received about the book. I put a lot of effort into it and I wanted it to be something where people actually felt like, you know, uh, this is helpful. You know, um, I got a bunch of ideas or, or like you even said, I'm appreciative of what you said that, um, this reaffirms some of the things that I was thinking about. And so, uh, that's something, and I'm always grateful for my wife, uh, and my daughter. So it's the best of both worlds kind of family and, uh, and, and work. I love it. Final question before we get to the final question, where can we connect with you online? Uh, I'll have all this linked up with the show notes that I'll talk about here in a second, but where can they get the book? What's your website? The book is The Champion's Mind. It's available wherever books are sold. And you can get on Amazon, Barnes & Noble,

Powell's Bookstore in Portland, Oregon, all over the place. So online, in person and then, uh, my website is, uh, gold metal mine.net and, um, on Twitter, it's gold metal mine. So, uh, gold metal mind and the champions mine are synonymous. Very cool. Okay. And I'll make sure to link up everything here in the show notes here in just a second. But what, uh, the final question, that's what I ask all my guests. It's what's your definition of greatness. My definition of greatness would be peace of mind where when your head hits

the pillow at night, did I give it my all? Did I have a, you know, complete effort and a great attitude doing the things that I value most. And if you can do that, you know, your body might be really sore from a, you know, a tough day from a tough day at the job or on the field. But if you could say that to yourself and you have that peace of mind when your head hits the pillow and the pillow is your best friend every night, then to me, that's greatness. Great definition. Jim, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks so much for the work that you do to support athletes and individuals to become champions. Thanks so much, Lewis. I love your show and it's been an honor to be a guest on it.

And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode and make sure to go ahead and go back to the show notes over at lewishouse.com slash 88 to learn more about Jim and all the things that we covered here today in the show notes, lewishouse.com slash 88. Again, big shout out to our sponsor, 99designs.com slash greatness. You're going to get that free $99 upgrade for the power pack. It's really to support you in getting in front of better designers to give you a better chance of a brand and design that you want. So check out 99designs.com slash greatness to get that $99 power pack upgrade. Again, guys, I'm so appreciative of your time and your energy for coming on and listening to these episodes. If you have yet to subscribe, please subscribe to the podcast over at itunes.com

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