The School of Greatness - 893 Sara Blakely: SPANX CEO on Writing Your Billion Dollar Story

Episode Date: December 25, 2019

NOTHING SHOULD STAND IN THE WAY OF YOUR STORY. We've had some pretty amazing women on The School of Greatness. I've learned a lot from each of them. In fact, I learn a lot from all the women around me (almost my whole team is women). Today's guest is no exception. Male, female, old, young - we could all learn from this incredible businessperson. Not only is she the youngest self-made female billionaire in America (wow, right??), she is also the mother of four young kids, the wife of another podcast guest, Jesse Itzler, and the founder and CEO of the massively popular women's apparel brand SPANX. In this episode, I got to sit with and learn from a legend among entrepreneurs: Sara Blakely. During this interview, I kept finding out new things to admire Sara for. She struggled a lot in school (me too!). She sold fax machines door to door FOR 7 YEARS before she had the idea for Spanx. She was rejected by every manufacturing company she took her idea to. But she didn't let any of that stop her. Sara's hustle and can-do attitude is just one thing I learned about her in this interview. We dive into dealing with grief, how to scale companies the right way, what it's like to be mentored by Richard Branson, and much more. Welcome to an inspiring interview with a powerhouse in Episode 893. Some Questions I Ask: How did you meet your husband Jesse? (30:12) How do you stay so grounded and calm with everything you have going on? (32:00) What did you learn from being mentored by Richard Branson? (44:47) What is more challenging for you – running a billion-dollar brand or being a mom? (49:46) In This Episode You Will Learn: What happened in Sara’s life to prepare her for entrepreneurship before she had her big idea (7:12) The list of possible product names Sara considered before she decided on Spanx (11:46) The hardest part of getting her company off the ground (15:55) How Sara guerrilla-marketed her first order of Spanx in Neiman Marcus (20:01) Why being kind to yourself is so important (32:15) How Sara got Warren Buffet to paint his belly for her new book (36:32) What grief and loss can teach us (43:01) Plus much more… If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/893 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes

This is episode number 893 with Sarah Blakely, the inspirational CEO and founder of the billion-dollar brand Spanx. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. George Bernard Shaw said, life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. And Maya Angelou said, there is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you. Have you been creating yourself lately?

Have you been discovering who you are by taking the actions every day and failing over and over again to create something beautiful that's from within and put it out into the world? Have you been sharing those gifts that only you have with the world? Or have you been bearing an agony of a story inside of you that you haven't let out yet because you've been too afraid to share it with others? This is an opportunity for you. We're at the start of a new year and a new decade coming up, and this is your opportunity to really hear a story from someone who overcame some challenges, didn't hit success right away after school, didn't go off and become this massive hit within the first five years, but experienced failure, failure, failure until she finally reached inside the story that was inside of her and said, I'm going to share this with the world. And this journey led her to an incredible discovery about who she is.

And she created something magical for the world. And if you don't know who Sarah Blakely is, she's the founder and owner of the shapewear brand Spanx, which sells undergarments, leggings, swimwear, and maternity wear in 65 countries. In 2012, Sarah was named the world's youngest self-made female billionaire by Forbes magazine and one of Time's 100 most influential people. In 2006, she established the Sarah Blakely Foundation, a philanthropic organization that

has donated millions to charities around the world, focusing on charities that empower underserved women and girls. And since 2015, she has been a co-owner of the Atlanta Hawks basketball team, along with billionaire Tony Ressler, and has appeared as a guest shark on Shark Tank. She does so many inspiring things for people around the world. She's one of the most positive individuals I've met, got the biggest smile, biggest heart, and I'm so excited for you to hear her in this episode. And in this interview, we talk about Sarah's relentless entrepreneurial mindset and spirit and why she was ready for her big idea when it came.

Talk about the challenges of getting her company off the ground and the lessons she learned the hard way. This was before social media, before all these opportunities. She had to start selling one product to one person. How Sarah brilliantly guerrilla marketed her first order in Spanx and Neiman Marcus. Why being kind to yourself is so important, especially with all the comparison and judgment and different things that are happening online these days, why it's so important to be kind to yourself, and what grief and loss can teach us. I'm so excited for you to listen to this, consume it, and apply the wisdom and information that Sarah shares throughout this

episode. If you have a girlfriend who's starting a business, or someone who's got a side business, or someone who wants to be an entrepreneur, text them this link right now. Do them a favor. Spread the message forward. Be a hero in their life by sharing this inspiration with them. This is a story that is so powerful that can help transform so many people's lives. So if you have a girlfriend, if you know a female who's launching a business, send them this episode, lewishouse.com slash 893, because this will help empower them to believe in themselves and overcome the challenges that they're going to be faced for many years to come. And if you're a guy listening, I'm telling you, when I talked to Sarah's husband, Jesse Itzler, who's a good buddy of mine, he was a brilliant entrepreneur and businessman.

I go, who's the smartest entrepreneur you know? And without a hesitation, he says, my wife, Sarah. I lean on her for so much feedback, wisdom. She is so talented when it comes to business, marketing, brand, design, all these different things. She's so smart, so gifted. So I don't care who you are, man, woman, any human being out there, you should be listening to this. If you're looking to take

on any big dream in your life, whether it be a business or putting an idea out into the world. So make sure to share this with any friends, but girlfriends, I'd love for you to connect and text each other and just hold each other accountable. Help each other up. Support one another. That's what this is about. And Sarah's story here is just so powerful, and I want you to get access to this. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one and only, the inspirational Sarah Blakely.

All right. Welcome, everyone, back to the School of Greatness podcast. We have a living legend in the house, Sarah Blakely. Thank you so much for being here. Absolutely. I really appreciate it. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so pumped. I feel like I should take your order. Take my order. What do you want? I always want a milkshake.

Yeah, chocolate? Oh, my gosh. Vanilla, chocolate, whatever. Yeah, chocolate. Oh, my gosh. Vanilla, chocolate, whatever. Yeah, whatever. I am down. I'm so glad you're here. It wasn't even six months ago when your husband was sitting right there. Yes. And we got to have a good conversation.

He said amazing things about you. And I was like, you know, one day I want to have her on as well. And luckily, you have the book. You're here. Yes. And we were able to make it happen. You're an incredible publicist. You're so amazing, so beautiful, who's just on top of everything. You're an incredible publicist. It's so amazing, so beautiful,

who's just on top of everything. Set it up for me. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for making this happen. And it's so good to connect. Yeah, thanks. And you are the founder of Spanx, which has blown up.

It's like one of the biggest companies in the world, it seems like now, right? There's a lot of butts. Right? There's a lot of butts out there. And I know you've shared how it all started, but for those that don't know Spanx, can you share how it all started so we have an understanding of what it is and how you got into it? Absolutely. It actually started with my own butt because I couldn't figure out what to wear under white pants. And I'm sure you've had this problem when you're getting dressed. All the time. So what ended up happening was our undergarment options were no good. There was underwear that

left a panty line, and then there was the girdle that was way too thick and heavy. And so then they came out with the thong, which just put underwear exactly where we've been trying to get it out of. So that did not help at all. And so Spanx was born out of just being a frustrated consumer. I wanted to wear my clothes. I wanted a smooth canvas. I didn't want to see lines or any kind of things going on underneath. So by taking the hosiery material, which was meant to be seen on the leg until Spanx sort of looked at it with a different lens and said, no, no, no, I want the hosiery material to actually be what I create the undergarment out of. And it was wild trying to convince the hosiery manufacturers to help me make this

product with that in mind, because for so many years they'd been using the material to be seen on the leg. And I said, no, it's just, it's the perfect material to create the perfect canvas for women under our clothes. And it opened up my wardrobe, opened up so many other women's wardrobe. We could start wearing colors we didn't feel comfortable wearing and the models get airbrushed. We get spanks. There you go. There you go. I love it. And when was this? What year was this? This was in, well, I cut the feet out of my pantyhose in 1998. Wow. Yes.

I was 27. Is it 18 years ago? Am I doing my math right? Yes. I was 27. And then I spent the next two years getting it made. I worked at night and on the weekends on the idea while I was selling fax machines door to door.

And then the company was launched in 2000 when I was 29. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Selling fax machines door to door. Where were you living? In Clearwater, Florida. Okay. Where I grew up.

Fax machines. On Clearwater Beach. Are there even fax machines anymore around? No. I mean, thank God I'm not still doing that. I don't know what would have happened. There are no more fax machines. Just like no one watches the movie Airplane anymore?

I'm just kidding. I cannot believe. I need to know. Is he the only one on the planet who's not seen the movie Airplane anymore? I need to know, is he the only one on the planet who's not seen the movie Airplane? I was quoting Airplane as soon as they put the headset on. I'm like, Stryker, you're too low. You're too low. And you just stared at me like, what is she talking about? I apologize. That's okay. So how long were you selling the fax machines?

I sold the fax machine to Ordedor for seven years. Seven years? Yes, I know. And before that, I wanted to be a lawyer, but I failed the LS Seven years? Yes, I know. And before that, I wanted to be a lawyer, but I failed the LSAT, not once, but twice. You wanted to be a lawyer. That was your dream. I wanted to be a lawyer. I was like, I'm going to be a lawyer. My dad was a trial attorney. I used to watch him in court when I was a little girl. And I'm a terrible test taker. I am the worst test taker. Are you the worst test taker? I'm so bad. I was in the bottom four of my grade, my my class all through high school

because i could not take tests and i always felt like the dumbest kid in the world isn't that doesn't that suck i mean it's it was like the most insecure feeling yeah and we ranked we had rankings on our grade cards so i knew exactly how dumb i was always in the bottom four it was miserable yeah test taking why is it so hard test? I don't know. I have trouble reading and comprehending. Me too. I really do. Like those SRAs. Are you too young for SRAs? What's SRA stand for? Forget it. Oh my gosh. I don't know. But everybody in school used to have to take the SRAs and I would read the paragraph and I remember vividly reading it and halfway through, I'd be like, remember what I'm reading. Remember what I'm reading.

Remember what I'm reading. And I looked at those four questions at the bottom and be like, I don't know what I read. So I'd go back up and start over again. You're speaking. This is my life. Really? And I would just like make stuff up constantly.

Whenever I had to comprehend, I would just read the same page over and over and I'd be daydreaming so much that I couldn't remember it as well. I either made stuff up or I sat next to Christina. And just cheated? Yeah, she was so smart. I was the king. My best friend growing up, she ended up going to Dartmouth and was like valedictorian or

something. I'm like, I'll just sit next to Christina. Did you have Scantrons? Do you remember that? No, I'm a... Okay, see? You're a little bit ahead. You can't remember?

Scantrons. We were doing things with a number two pencil and bubbles. Yeah, I did that too. Yes. What's a Scantron? A Scantron. We were doing things with a number two pencil and bubbles. I did that too. Yes. It's a Scantron. A Scantron is like multiple choice. It's like a long sheet with a multiple choice, all multiple choice. Did you have that?

Multiple choice. We had to fill in the bubbles. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's Scantron. And when you skipped a bubble and then time's almost out and you realize you've just done all the wrong bubbles on the whole page.

Yes. Exactly. And you're like, no. Exactly. But I'm on the same page. And you're like, no. Exactly. But I'm on the same page. You're bringing up a lot. I'm remembering all this. I used to cheat because I couldn't comprehend.

So I would have an incredible vision. I would be like this. But I could see through and see all this. You would sit like that? That's a dead giveaway. Like any kid in the class like this, just you knew that they were cheating. No one ever caught me.

All right. It's how I got through school was cheating. I could not have made it through class without it. Christina. You had your girl. That's hilarious. You were a cheater as well. Well,

I'm just saying Christina sat next to me. Okay. Innovator. I was being resourceful. I like it. I was being really resourceful, but I wanted to be a lawyer, but it didn't work.

I wanted to be a lawyer. I failed the LSAT. Not once, twice. So then instead of going to law school, I drove to Disney World and tried out to be goofy. But you have to be 5'8". And you're 5'6". And I'm 5'6".

So you didn't wear heels? No, I didn't wear heels. Come on, Sarah. I didn't wear heels. And so I was the height of a chipmunk. So you got the chipmunk? I got the chipmunk part, but I didn't end up doing it. I put people on rides in a brown polyester spacesuit at the World of Motion and Horizons at Epcot.

Epcot Center. And I would see people that I hadn't seen in a while. Come through. Yeah. I'm walking on the moving sidewalk, putting people on rides, and they'd go, hey, Blakely, is that you? Didn't you graduate from college? And my big Mickey Mouse here said, Sarah Blakely. And I'd be like, yes, get on the ride.

Oh, my gosh. But that's what I did. And then I sold fax machines door to door Mouse here said, Sarah Blakely. And I'd be like, yes, get on the ride. Oh my gosh. But that's what I did. And then I sold fax machines door to door for seven years. Seven years. Did you wake up every morning and say, this is my dream to sell fax machines door to door? Or were you thinking, what am I doing with my life? Exactly. So what happened was a lot of people think that Spanx started when I cut the feet out

of my pantyhose, but actually it started long before that. It started when I was selling fax machines door to door and getting my business card ripped up in my face, being escorted out of buildings all day, every day, that I woke up one day and just thought, I'm in the wrong movie. Like, how did this happen? This is not my life. Cut, scene, director, like call the producer. And I got out a piece of paper and I wrote down, what am I good at? And the only thing in the good column was sales. And I got out a piece of paper and I wrote down, what am I good at? And the only thing in the good column was sales. And I thought, okay, what am I going to do with that? And I ended up writing in my journal, I'm going to invent a product and sell it to millions of people that will make them feel good. And then I asked the universe for an idea

and I was very specific and it took two years and I only cut the feet out of my pantyhose one time and I was not going to squander any idea the universe gave me because I had really asked for it. And then the minute I cut the feet out, I started trying to make it. I started looking up manufacturers on the internet. This was before Alibaba, wasn't it?

Yes. Because I did this about eight years ago and I used alibaba for something and it was easy to find like a manufacturer in china and yeah test different things but how did you find a manufacturer at that time a website called thomas registry.com and it lists all the manufacturers in the country based on category and that's when i found out that a lot of hosiery and undergarments were being made in North Carolina. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, so you got a local. Yeah.

I'm in the U.S., yeah. So I called and called, and no one would take my call, and they'd either hang up on me or say they weren't interested. So I took a week off of work and drove around in person. And just showed up and said, I just showed up. Hey, I want to create a sample. Yeah. Because if they weren't going to get a big order for something,

they're probably like, what's, I got to do a little sample for you. Right. Right, yeah. I showed got to do a little sample for you. Right. Right. Yeah. I showed up with my lucky red backpack from college. It's always with me.

You still have it? Yeah, of course. And. You didn't bring it here. Come on. It's with me. It's with me in LA. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So, um, anyway, I went into the host, the manufacturing plants and they asked me the same three questions. And you are, let's say Sarah Blakely. And you're with? Myself. Sarah Blakely. And you're financially backed by? And I was like, Sarah Blakely. So you can imagine how those went. It was like, well, have a nice day, honey, and good luck. And about a few weeks after I made all those rounds, I got a call from a guy in North Carolina who took pity on me and said, Sarah, I've decided to make your crazy idea. And when I asked him why he had the change of heart, he said, I have three daughters. Yeah, so he ran the idea by them.

And they're like, Dad, that sounds interesting. You got to give that girl a chance. Amazing. So he called you back. You didn't follow up with these people. Oh, yeah. I was following up, but to no avail. But he followed up and said, we'll give it a shot. We'll make this. So what was the next

step? Was he just making a sample for you or testing different models or sizes? Yeah. So it just set up to make the garment. While I was making it with his manufacturing plant, I was also wanting to patent the idea. And I was also trying to come up with the name for the invention. So I was doing those three things simultaneously, driving up on the weekends and working with Ted in the back of the manufacturing plant that I'd become very close with. Driving to North Carolina from Florida? No, from Atlanta. I was living in Atlanta at the time. What's that about? Eight hour drive, six hour drive? About four and a half, five. Oh, it's not bad. Okay. Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah, it's not bad.

And so anyway, Ted became my buddy and I went to get it patented, but all the patent lawyers wanted between three and $5,000 and I had $5,000 set aside to do this. That's it, yeah. So I wrote my own patent. I went to Barnes and Noble. No way. And I bought a book called Patents and Trademarks. And I wrote the patent. And then I called one of the patent lawyers that was the nicest to me and said, please, please, please, will you write the claims over the weekend for a discounted price? I've done all the other rest of the patent. Yeah. The legwork you'd done. Yeah. You just

kind of needed to button it up and sign it off. Yeah, you needed to do the legal part. And so he did. He actually admitted to me that when I came to visit him, he thought I'd been sent by candid camera, which let me put it in your words. I know candid camera. I know. He thought he was being punked. Of course.

Of course. Wow. Yeah. He thought he was being punked. Okay. And he thought. Where's Ashton? Where's Ashton?

Yeah, exactly. He thought that his friends were playing a joke on him. No way. Yeah. He goes, who's this girl? I mean, like, you're not the typical person who walks in the door saying, I've got a product and I want to patent it.

So anyway, he did that. Then at the same time, I'm trying to think of the name. I had horrible names written on scrap pieces of paper all over the place in my apartment, in my car, in rental cars, on the back of like Avis agreements. And you want to hear how bad the runner up name to Spanx was? Yeah. Open Toad Delilahs. No way. Yes.

I cannot believe that was even an option. It was the runner up. Like how bad is that? Open Toad Delilahs? I so wouldn't be sitting here with you right now if I named it that. That is the horrible. Yeah. It's so bad.

Wow. Yeah. So anyway. Okay. So. What does Spanx stand for? Well, it's all about the butt makes your mind wander a little bit nobody ever forgets it i had no money to advertise it was

risky it was fun at the time listen now it's become a household name but when i first invented it i would call people and say hi i'm sarah from spanks and they would hang up right so that was probably like a porn yeah they thought i was pranking them i'm called i'm like no really i'm sarah my company really is called spanks and i had a department stores across the country that wouldn't sell it they thought it was too risque of a name yeah and um my mom sent her whole lunch into the wrong website when i first started i was like mom it's with an x oh my god it's super important so yeah anyway i ended up buying the word spanks from a man who said he was holding out from the porn industry. Funny enough that you say that.

I bet. Yeah. I paid Spanx with an X. I paid money for that. But anyway, yes. Amazing. Named it Spanx. It came to me because I narrowed down my thinking.

I knew that Kodak and Coca-Cola were the two most recognized names in the world at the time. And I thought, what do they have in common? I like to think about words and phrases a lot. They both had a strong K sound in them. And the man that created Kodak liked the K sound so much, he took a K and put it in the beginning and the end of the word and played with letters in the alphabet. And I also had a bunch of friends who did stand-up comedy, and it's this weird trade secret among comedians that the K sound will make your audience laugh. So I put all that together, and I'm like, okay, I want my product name to have the K sound in it for good luck. And literally Spanx came across my dashboard in my car in my mind, and I pulled off the side of the road. I wrote it down. I went home that night. I typed it in my computer for $150 with my credit card. And at the last second, I backspaced the K and the S and put in an X and hit send.

So it was accident kind of with the X. You backspaced. I backspaced because I stared at it for a while and I had done research that made up words do better for product than real words. And they're easier to trademark. So then I had the name and I had the patent in the works, got my prototype. And my patent lawyer said, Sarah, I need to know what's in this garment in order to write the patent. I said, okay, no problem. We'll call Ted.

So I get Ted on the phone. I'm like, Ted, can you talk to – The manufacturer. Yeah. In the back. Yes. I'm like, Ted, can you talk to my patent lawyer? He's like, yeah. So we're all talking and he goes – I like ted can you talk to my patent lawyer he's like yeah so we're all talking and he goes i go can you tell him what's in it he's like yeah well it's

70 percent nylon and 30 percent lacquer and i'm like all right and so i'm taking notes my patent lawyer's taking notes and that night i could not sleep i'm up all night and the next morning i wake up i'm like how is there lacquer in this product? What is lacquer? Just so I'm aware. I think it's like paint thinner or something. Okay. So I called. 30% paint thinner? So I called Ted.

I go, Ted, can you spell lacquer? He's like, yeah, L-Y-C-R-A. I'm like, oh my God, lycra. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was like. Got it. Doing all change on lacquer immediately. All change.

My patent lawyer was laughing. He said, you know how fast you would have gotten a patent if you tried to make this out of paint thinner? He's like, they would have been like, sure. So was it challenging to get it? Did you get it the first try? The patent? I did. Wow.

It usually takes a few turns, doesn't it? I got the patent the first try and I got the trademark name Spanx. Amazing. Yeah. So it didn't seem like there was that many challenges once you submitted it or whatever. You kind of got the things you needed in place. You got the orders in. Was there a lot of challenges after that once you got the patent, the trademark?

That was a really hard part. It's just I heard the word no for two years. Yeah. All the manufacturers, nobody thought it was a good hard part is just i heard the word no for two years yeah all the manufacturers nobody thought it was a good idea wow and um and also when you're just yourself trying to break into an industry like you mentioned the manufacturers it's not really in their best interest to slow down machines or try to give a girl with a couple grand a chance unless you're gonna give a bunch of money for a big order of something yeah so right so, what's the point? Right. So that was the hard part. And then once I had it, I cold called Neiman Marcus and that was the first account I called on.

Did you get it? Yes. Well, you were great at sales. So you could sell it. I was so excited. It was my moment. I flew to Dallas. I called them and said, if you give me 10 minutes of your time, I'll come and meet with you. And she said, all right. And this is a buyer? Yep. The buyer. I first called the Atlanta store. They're like, girl, we can't help you. We have a buying office. I'm like, well, where is that? Give me their number. And I went in and halfway through my pitch, I could tell I was

losing her. So I said, you know what? Will you please come to the bathroom with me? And she was like so buttoned up. I mean, Neiman Marcus, like her pen matched her belt that matched her shoes. And she was like, what? Like, what am I going to do in the bathroom? I was like, just follow me to the bathroom. I'll show you my own panty line. And I went in the stall with Spanx in my pants and without it in my pants. And she was like, oh, I totally get it.

It's awesome. And I'm going to put it in seven stores. Wow. Yeah. I mean, just like that. Just like that. It was so unbelievable. I was so nervous.

And then, of course, I had to call Sam. I'm like, in the rental car on the way back to the airport, I called the owner of the manufacturing plant. I'm like, Sam, Sam, it's Sarah. I need more. I just landed Neiman Marcus. And he's like, what? He was in shock.

He goes, Sarah, I thought you were going to give me this away as birthday presents for like years. And I said, no, Neiman Marcus just bought it and I need more. And he patched me through to Ted. He goes, okay, you need to talk to Ted. Okay. So Ted comes back in. He's on the phone.

And I go, Ted, I need more. And he goes, I go, I just landed Neiman Marcus. He goes, well, that's great, but what are you going to do about the crotches? Crotches? Yeah. Exactly. That's what I said. I go, what?

Don't they come with crotches? We've been making them with crotches. He goes, well, yeah, but we only got one crotch machine. It's being used by somebody else. No way. Yeah. So what do you do then? So I just landed Neiman Marcus and I have no crotches.

Oh my gosh. You got a hole in your crotches? I don't know where to go for a crotch. Do you? I mean, where do you go? I actually looked in the yellow pages. Crotch making machines? Yeah, I just, I looked up crotch.

Crotch machine. I looked up crotch. I don't even know how you spell crotch. Okay, listen. This is what I learned. I'm going to teach you something. Okay, so I didn't know this. What's yellow pages again?

Yeah, oh my God. I'm just kidding. It's a big book. It's yellow. It's what we used to look things up. Of course. Hilarious. What's Instagram?

Oh, yeah. You just got on it. Okay, I just joined it seven days ago. All right. So where was it? Oh, crotch. Oh, yeah. Crotch machine.

Wicked up. Yeah. So anyway, in the yellow pages, it's not under crotch. So I learned there's a fancy word for crotch named gusset. Gusset? Yes. What? Gusset.

I've never heard that word. So I started calling gusset companies. They were like FedExing me crotches from all over. My roommate would come home and be like, you got another crotch in the mail. And then I ended up finding a man by the name of Gene Bobo that worked for a crotch company just 20 minutes North of where I lived in Atlanta. And he saved the day and they made the crotches and then I could deliver to him in Marcus. So you had the leggings, they made the crotches and then you sew them together. Is that how it works? Yes.

Apparently. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. So then you had enough. How many did you print the first time? 3,000. 3,000?

3,000 pair of the first Spanx. One SKU, right? Yes. One SKU. $20. One SKU. Three sizes or? Like four.

Four sizes. Four sizes. Yep. 3,000 of them. Yes. And that's what Neiman's ordered. And then I sent them to the, they sent them to the seven stores. I had no packing and shipping department. So the semi trucks were pulling up to my apartment in Atlanta and I was shipping them myself to Neiman's. This is amazing. And then I called every friend I had in those seven cities, like people I hadn't talked to in 20 years.

Say, hey, go buy a few of these. Go make – yeah. Take your girlfriends there. Hi, Christina. Remember me? I used to sit next to you all the time in grade school. Will you please go buy this product called Spanx? I literally called them and I said, and I'll mail you a check.

So I paid all my friends and friends of friends to go buy the product. That is brilliant actually to get some movement. Yeah. I said, go in. I gave them a whole script. I'm like, go in and say, I've been looking for this all my life. I can't believe it's here and create all this excitement. This is amazing. And then of course, a week later, I talked to the Neiman's buyer and she's like, Sarah, we are blowing out. I'm like, you don't say. No way.

Meanwhile, I was buying them all. Yeah. That's brilliant. You have to. Wow. You have to. You have to ensure your own success. Absolutely. So then once I started running out of money, Oprah called and put it on as her favorite product of the year. How long was that for until the time was in Neiman Marcus to Oprah calling?

Like a month. It just happened that quick? A month or a month and a half. How did she even hear about it in a month and a half? She sent it to her in a gift basket. A month or a month and a half. How did she even hear about it in a month and a half? I sent it to her in a gift basket. And her, Andre, who dresses her, put it in her dressing room.

And she put them on and has basically worn them every day since. Shut up. I'm not kidding. It was so unbelievable. I had no money to advertise. I'm in the back of my apartment. I was selling fax machines like a month before that. But I have to say, I was working every night and on the weekends for two years,

quietly trying to get this made. Building this thing, yeah. Building it, yeah. Did you have a relationship get this made. Building this thing. Yeah. Building it. Yeah. Did you have a relationship at this time? Yes. Really? Yeah.

My boyfriend at the time quit his job as a healthcare consultant because he started helping me ship the Spanx out all night, every night. So he was fully in support. Yeah. He was like, do your thing. He was on board and was on board for like the first maybe six years of the company, six to seven years. Wow.

He was amazing help. Wow. Okay. So if you would have not had Oprah bring this on TV. I just have to ask you, did you know what Spanx were before I came on here? Of course. Be honest. My assistant is wearing them today.

All right. Okay, good. Of course. You know I make man Spanx. Well, I heard you. I read that you still have like a men's line now. I do. I have a small cult following for this product.

I've never bought that. I mean, what is it? What are the man's? What are the man's? The man's. Okay. So it's an under, all it is, is a man's undershirt. And I just saw that my husband and my brother and my dad had the same undershirt since it

came out. So I researched it because I think it's interesting things that never change. Like a white Hanes undershirt? The man's undershirt came out in 1918. Not one thing has changed about it. So I was like, oh. It's not comfortable. That's why I don't wear it.

Yeah, and it stretches out. So I said, let me put a little bit of Lycra in it. I'll make it the same cotton undershirt guys are used to, but I'll make it not stretch out as easy, be a little tapered in at the waist so it looks better under. I'm not taking it. I'll go buy them. I'll go to Neiman Marcus.

And then I got men's Spanx underwear that are amazing. They're just comfortable. Okay. We reinvented the pouch, okay? I'll try them out. I'm just going to say the only thing I can say is- Tell me what to get. I'll get it and I'll test it.

The men that have wore it told me it keeps the family together. Hey, I will try it. So I want to go get it. Okay. What store is you in now? You're in every store? Yes. Okay. Yes. Spanx.com, but you have to spell it with an X or you're going to get a real treat, people. Exactly. This is amazing. So where would you be if Oprah didn't pick it up within the first couple of months? Like if you had a year of trying to do this on your own, do you think you'd have got other press or you'd have got the money to build it?

Yeah, I do. I do because I was so determined. I mean, as soon as I got the order, I was so committed. You weren't just interested in seeing if this worked. You were committed and doing whatever it takes. I was in it to win it. You have to remember, right? I was selling fax machines to Oprah to be thrown out of buildings. I had no option in my mind. I was like, I am scripting a new life for myself.

Was this movie about you that came out a year ago? Joy? Yeah. Is that about you? My dad called me and goes, Sarah, I just saw a movie. It's basically your life, except for the dysfunctional family part. I was like, yeah, right, dad. Okay, sure. Yeah, but I could really relate to her. I'm sure. All the hustle and yeah, right, dad. Okay, sure. Yeah, but I could really relate to her. I'm sure. All the hustle and yeah. That's crazy. But when I got Neiman Marcus, I think a lot of people think that's when you've arrived.

No. That's when I double-timed. I mean, I got on a plane and was gone for two years straight. And I went to every department store in the country that sold Spanx, every Neiman Sachs, Nordstrom, and Bloomingdale's. And I would go before the store opened and do an all-store rally and tell them what my product was, explain it to them, do a demo, give out free product, and then stand there in the department for eight hours a day and tell customers what it was. Because I didn't have any money averages. I was selling it for them. But what I didn't realize I was doing was I was building a sales force, not on my payroll because all these people started to become so-

Ambassadors. Ambassadors. And they were rooting for me and they loved the product. And so that was a really important part of the formula. And then I learned what my next products were going to be because I was standing right there with customers and- Let's say what they need. They told me what they wanted. I can't do this. They told me what they wanted.

Amazing. Yeah. This is unbelievable. You were willing to do whatever it takes, above and beyond. Totally. So when Oprah had you on, or she didn't have you on, she had the product on, you didn't go on, right? I didn't go on, but they called and they said, Sarah, it's her favorite product of the thing.

She doesn't have people on this, but she loves that you're taking on this billion dollar industry and she wants to film you and kind of just show a little bit of B-roll. So they landed in Atlanta and came to my apartment, and they had all this official stuff, and they go, we discussed on the plane we want to film you in your headquarters. Oh, my gosh. Your headquarters is like my living room. Yeah, I'm like, you're here. And then they wanted to film me having a staff meeting and I had no staff.

So I called Connie. You went to the factory and you're like, call up Sam and. I know, listen, I called Connie that I'd met at mailboxes, et cetera, because she'd been FedExing pantyhose for me. And she left work and came with three other friends of mine. And that was my staff meeting on the Oprah show.

Amazing. What did the sales do after that? It was amazing. I mean, I went from when I saw somebody order that wasn't my mom's friend, I was dancing around my apartment, and then to all of a sudden, 30,000 orders. It was just... Was this online at the time? Yes.

It was on spanks.com. Wow. Yeah. 30,000 came in, and what type of time frame? Pretty quickly. Like a week? Yeah. 30,000 orders in. And what time frame? Yeah. Pretty quickly. Like a week? Yeah. 30,000 orders.

Like in a week or two. Yeah, it was crazy. I was up all night, every night shipping. I had friends coming over helping me pack and ship them. And this is how clueless I was. I was sending everybody's product in regular mail. So then I started getting all these emails and phone calls from people going, my product never showed up and I didn't have any way to track it. I was like, oh, okay. I guess they're supposed to be tracking with this.

That X and everything else. Yeah. Wow. So then I, you know, that's how I did the whole thing. I stumbled through it. I always tell people what you don't know can be your greatest asset if you let it, because it ensures you're going to do it differently. Absolutely. And when I landed Neiman Marcus, all these people came up to me and said, I have been doing this for seven years, 10 years, five years. How did you land Neiman Marcus? And I said, I called them. And they just looked at me and I was like, why? What do you do? They're like, well, I go to trade shows and I set up my booth and I'm waiting for the Neiman

Marcus buyer to come by. And we've been doing it every year for seven years. I didn't even know there were trade shows. So sometimes just not knowing how it's supposed to be done. You have to have the courage though, to say, even though I wasn't trained in this, because a lot of people think, well, I didn't go to school for this. So how could I possibly know? But you know, it's inside of you. Yeah. And you were willing to be creative and risk failure in a way that most people aren't. You put yourself out there in a major way and you said, hey, come to the bathroom with me and I'm not going to do anything weird. It's amazing. It's incredible story. My dad used to encourage me to fail. So at the dinner table growing up, he would ask my brother and me what

we failed at that week. And if we didn't have something to tell him, he'd be disappointed. And I vividly remember being a little girl and saying, I tried out for this dad and I was horrible. And he would high five me and he'd go way to go. So he's reframing my definition of failure. So failure for me became about not trying, not the outcome. What was the biggest lesson he taught you? Was that it? Yeah, for sure. And what about your mom? What's the biggest lesson she taught you? My mom is so supportive. She's the most lovely, sweetest person I've ever met in my life. And

she's an artist and she's super creative. So I like to think and hope that she passed on a little bit of the creative side to me. Who would you say is more influential to you? Oh, both. Yeah. It was such a balance. Yeah. Yeah.

I got really good. My family's very supportive. That's amazing. So, you know, some people I hear about when they get these big orders or a lot of press for something, they're not set up or ready to take it on. And it actually kills the company because they don't have the funds to buy the product or the goods. But for you, that didn't happen. You were set up, you were good to go. Well, it was close. I mean, I was in my apartment and I had $5,000 that I'd started it with. And I stayed self-funded from the start. I still own 100% of Spanx. I never borrowed any money or went outside of.

And how many employees do you have now? Over 200. 200. Yeah. And based in Atlanta or New York? Based in Atlanta. It's amazing. It's unbelievable.

Now you have Jesse who was in here before. Yes. How long have you guys been married now? Eight years. Eight years. And when was Spanx started? What year? 2000.

2000. Okay. Yeah. We actually started our companies at the same time. We didn't know each other. He started Marquee Jet in 2000 and I started Spanx. Wow. And you met eight years after, because it's been 16 years since you started, right? So eight years into Spanx, you met. Yes. And how did you know that you guys were going to be married and start this life? Because you were in another relationship before, it sounded like, correct. Yes. And how did, um, that, you know, how did you know that you guys were going to be married and start this life? Cause you were in another relationship before it sounded like,

correct? Yes. So how did, how did it come about? Well, I was a customer of his and our sales rep kept saying, you have to meet the owner and founder of this company. And they kept inviting me to things and I couldn't go. And then she said, we have a poker tournament in Vegas that you have to attend. And it's a customer appreciation. So I went and that's where we met in Vegas. I met my husband in Vegas. Oh, all right. And you guys just hit it off and you just knew right then? I pretty much knew right away. Really? Yeah. Okay. And were you out of the relationship before then? Or were you transitioning?

Or was it kind of, it was fading? My boyfriend at the time was supposed to be with me. Oh, my gosh. And he got sick at the last minute. No way. He didn't come on the trip. No way. Yeah.

And so my friend Julie came with me instead. And then I just had a feeling when I met Jesse. I was like, wow, this guy, I just felt something like that, that he would somehow end up in my life. And we stayed in touch casually for the next like six months. And then when that relationship stopped, wow, Jesse called.

Really? Yeah. You kind of heard about it. Gotcha. Amazing. And now you guys have, you have four kids together, right?

Yes. All under the age of seven. This is amazing. Three in diapers right now. I'm like, what's my name? What's going on? I understand how you're able to, and you said a joke before, you're like, if you ask me how to balance it, I'm not gonna be able to give you a good answer. But how do you, you seem so graceful right now. You're so clear and lovely and friendly and happy and joyful when you have this,

you know, however big your company is to, uh, four kids, a husband to traveling around. You've got a book coming out right now. We're going to talk about, you've got working on multiple products,

different things all the time. I don't understand how you're this calm and lovely, lovely and amazing. Well, thank you. I don't understand how you're this calm and lovely and amazing. Well, thank you. The work-life balance thing is I am a work in progress. I don't have any wonderful advice to dispense. I wish that I did, but I don't. But I will say the one thing that I feel like has helped me the most is to be kind to myself. So I realized that as a mother, when I became a mom, I spent a lot of mental energy beating myself up, like feeling so guilty. And when I was working, I was beating myself up that I wasn't with the kids and mentally. And when I was with the kids,

I was beating myself up with that. So I think a lot of mothers were our own worst enemy. And when I really stopped and said, I don't know how to juggle all this. Some days I feel like I'm doing it right. And some days I feel like I just want to cry. I, at least I made that change and it was a huge change for me. I just catch myself when I start doing that to myself and I just, I change it to kindness and forgiveness.

As opposed to beating yourself up. Yeah. I'm just like, okay, it's all right. Yeah. And, um, and then that, that helps me stay more present also. Is there a woman or a mother that you really admire that you see that is doing it gracefully

as well that is a good model for you or any of your friends or moms out there? Yeah. Well, any of your friends or moms out there? Yeah. I think any working mom. I mean, when I see working moms, any mom, really, honestly, stay-at-home moms. I mean, it's a full-time job no matter how you slice it. I don't know how you guys do it. It's really impressive.

I think women are really incredible. You are. Yeah. I don't know how you guys do it. I like to hire moms because I know that they are unbelievable at multitasking and getting multiple things done. Most of my team is women. Yeah. I have one guy on my team and the rest of them.

Smart. Smart man. Yeah. Because you guys are extremely talented. Thank you. Yeah. This is amazing. I agree.

And what is the book? You've been working on a book for seven years. You said seven years, right? I did. It's true. You took a photo seven years ago. Seven and a half years ago. And what's the book called? It's called The Belly Art Project. Okay. And I did. It's true. You took a photo seven years ago? Seven and a half years ago. And what's the book called?

It's called The Belly Art Project. And I'm super excited about it. It started with my own pregnant belly three days before I delivered my son. I woke up in the middle of the night and just thought, oh my God, my body is amazing that it can do this. Like the state that my body's in and what women's bodies can do. So I saw my belly as a canvas and thought, I want to do something artistic with my body in this moment in time. It may never be like this

again. And so I wanted to turn my belly into objects. And I wrote down three in the morning, watermelon, beach ball, basketball, Mr. Potato Head, and went back to bed. And the next day, a friend came over and painted my belly these objects. I ran around Atlanta and posed in different environments and gave them to my husband as a gift. And that's when he said, you got to do more with this idea. And seven and a half years later, and over a hundred more women and bellies from around the world that all painted different fun objects. The book is out now. It's out. It's out.

Go get the book. Because it takes so long. I mean, think about it but it's not like i can do a casting call for nine month pregnant women i was stalking them in airports nail salons other people's weddings them and then finding them i'd read about them in the press and then start calling them and say please would you be in this book and then each woman that you photograph i'm like okay now we have nine women i can't do a book with nine all right let's find a tenth then i'd be 10 and be like we need another one you know and so was it enough? And we have one man in the book who painted his belly. And I bet for all the money, you couldn't guess who the man is.

Is it a celebrity? Yes. He's famous. He's the only man in the book with his belly painted. Does he play a sport? No. He's over 80 Larry King? No, that's a good guess He's been on the show, that's why I thought of Larry King But over 80, Stan Lee?

No I don't even know, who's over 80 that it's a famous dude, I don't know The most unlikely person maybe that you could guess His name starts with a W Wes Walker Who's that? Wes Walker? The most unlikely person maybe that you could guess. His name starts with a W. Wes Welker. Who's that? Wes Welker?

No, Les Welker is what I'm thinking. Who's the guy who owns Victoria's Secret? Oh, Les Wexner? Les Wexner. I had the football player. You totally botched that. I had the football player. I'm glad I said who is that. I had the football player.

Wes Welker is the football player. All right, all right. But I'm from Columbus where Victoria's Secret and Limited is at. Okay. So that's what I'm thinking of. All right. Les Wexner, right? Yes.

I don't know. Who is it? Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett? No way. You got him to do it? Yes. You're painting his belly?

Yes. That's worth buying the book just for that. I know. You have to see it. Oh, my gosh. He's such an amazing trooper. He's so generous with his spirit and everything. And he sat next to me at a lunch and I said, he said, what are you up to? And I said, here are the pictures. And he laughed

for a minute straight and said, I want to be in the book. No way. Yes. He paint, what is the painted? So we were on a plane to Omaha to paint Warren Buffett's belly. We were freaking out. I was so nervous and so excited. And then we were all rehearsing, like, how do you ask Warren to take his clothes off? Like, do you ease into it? Do you say, hey, do you make small talk? And he came in and he was just such a good sport. He just took his dress shirt off and said he chose the yo-yo. So we painted a yo-yo on his back. That's amazing.

Yeah. All for the cause. So 100% of the book proceeds goes to Every Mother Counts and gives back to Christy Turlington's foundation. She's doing amazing work. My foundation's about empowering women, but this creative idea felt much more in line with pregnancy and childbirth.

So I wanted to gift the money to a foundation that was much more on the ground, knowing exactly how to make a difference for maternal health. Amazing. And every two minutes, a woman dies in childbirth on the planet. So this book hopefully will help make childbirth safe for women everywhere.

Amazing. So you got to get the book. It's a beautiful coffee table book or it's a cool shower gift. I'm hoping – I also sell a belly painting kit. So you can buy your own. Yeah, I'm hoping women will do it at showers. That's cool. Like paint the girl's belly at the shower.

That's cool. Have fun with it. belly at the shower. That's cool. Have fun with it. Post your pictures. Belly Art Project. Bellyartproject.com or.org? .org. .org. And you can get the big limited edition book, the coffee table book at Spanx.com.

Okay. You can also get the belly painting kit at Spanx.com. And the smaller book that's $29.99 is at Amazon and Barnes & Noble and everywhere. Belly Art Project. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm excited. Make sure you guys pick it up.

Yeah. What's the thing you are most proud of that a lot of people maybe don't know about you? What a good daughter and granddaughter I've been. It's always been such a priority to me to take really good care of my mom and my grandma and be close. And I think just, you said what people don't know about me,

so I was trying to think about it, but I'm most proud of the fact that I was able to achieve this in a really kind way, that I can look at myself in the mirror and just, I am where I am and I feel really good about it, really good about myself. I didn't feel like I had to compromise. You know, when I first started Spanx, I was at a cocktail party and three guys came up to me and they said, Sarah, we heard you just started a business and invented something.

And I said, yes. And they go, you know, business is war. And I just looked at him and then one guy, you know, pat me on the back and he said, yeah, I hope you're up for it. I hope you're ready for war. And I went home that night in my apartment and I sat down on the floor and I literally started crying. And I remember thinking, I don't want to go to war. Like, why does it have to be war? I want to go about this in a completely different way. And so the whole journey of Spanx, I really took a feminine approach to it. I mean, I didn't know business. I'd never taken a business class. I didn't have a business plan.

I didn't go out and raise VC. So I trusted my gut. I stuck with intuition. I just did things what felt very, yeah. I think traditional business has felt very, yeah. I think traditional business has been very male energy. And so I wanted to see what would happen if I took a very feminine energy approach. How have you handled kind of the recognition,

I guess the fame of the business you've built? I think the, I don't know the actual stat, but you're like one of the only self-made billionaire women. I think that's like the line or something. You're one of the top 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine. How have you handled the exposure and the awareness and all the things that come to you? I believe money just makes you more of who you already were. So if you weren't kind, you're going to be kinder.

If you're a jerk, become a bigger jerk. You know, insecure, you become more insecure. I see it as a magnifying glass, like, you know, money. So money didn't change me. It doesn't feel weird to me to, to, you know, for me, it was really about, I was so inspired to make a product that was going to make a difference and make people feel good. And especially women, I feel like the industry had stopped caring about how we felt in our clothing. And I was really, I wanted to take that angle of like, no, I do believe we can feel good and look good at the same time. It doesn't have to be like uncomfortable. Yeah, it doesn't have to be a compromise, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. What's your biggest fear right now? Losing someone I love. What's your biggest fear? Am I allowed to interview you? You can ask me anything you want. You know, it's interesting that you say that because it hasn't really been a fear of mine until recently because I'm just like, I have so many good friends and people that I've met over the last few years, especially with the podcast. They have all these great relationships.

And I'm like, gosh, at some point, it's either me or someone else. I'm not sure who it's going to be. Something's bound to happen to someone I know just because of the odds. And I don't want it to happen either. I don't want to say it's a big fear. I just feel like it's going to happen at some point. It's just like a feeling,

and I don't want it to be someone really close to me. You know, it's scary. I've had a lot of loss. Really? Yeah. A lot of people close to you.

Really? Yeah. By the time I was 31, I'd lost 11 different people close to me from separate tragedies. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I've been, you know,

dropped to my knees many times in life by grief. I mean, just, it's like unbearably painful. But I will say that, you know, going through that, I always think there's a hidden blessing in everything that we go through in life. And one of the blessings was that facing my own mortality at a really young age had all these hidden gifts. I use mortality and sort of the insignificance of all of this in a positive way. It doesn't, just how temporary this all is to fuel me and to say, why would I ever not do this? What? Because I'm afraid that person, that person's not going to remember me five minutes after I make a fool of myself anyway like let's do this we're all here for just a short period of time so it freed me up um in a way that I think most people in the natural course of life you know

maybe starts to think about in their 40s when they might lose a parent or a grandparent or something so yeah really how do you get through a challenging loss like that? What's your process? Oh, my gosh. One day at a time. I mean, it is just one day at a time. Yeah. Wow. My best friend, she died in a tragedy.

And I was her roommate, and I started Spanx in her bedroom. No way. Yeah. I've never really talked about that. But yes, Spanx Headquarters was in Laura's bedroom. And so that's pretty cool. I feel like I had a- A little piece of her in the company. Yeah. And she was always really so supportive of me. Were you guys roommates or was this-

Yeah, we were roommates. She passed away when you were living together? Yep. She was riding a horse and was hit by a car on the horse. Oh, my gosh. In Chapel Hill. A 92-year-old man said he never saw her or the horse when he came around the corner. Oh, my gosh. So sad. And she was so awesome. But anyway, yeah, many, many different things like that have happened.

Eleven different. Yeah, I've lost very close people in my life. Well, you've come out in an amazing way and been such an inspiration to so many people. So it's made you better. Thank you. It sounds like the experiences you've learned from it sounds like so. Thank you. Speaking of learning from lessons, you've been around a lot of incredible entrepreneurs. Yeah.

And I know you did a reality show with Richard Branson. This was 10, 12 years ago, you said. What was that like and what's been a big lesson you've learned from him and what was the show and what'd you learn? Yeah, the show was called The Rebel Billionaire and it was the apprentice version, Richard Branson's version of that. They were looking for 16 entrepreneurs. So I'm like, Hey, I'm an entrepreneur. I want to do this. And I really wanted to meet Richard. I sort of had set intentions out there that I was going to manifest him becoming a friend in my life. So when I heard about the show, I was like, oh, this is interesting.

This might be how this happens. So I applied for it, and it was wild. And how big was Spanx at the time? Was it really well-known? Was it like just kind of picking it? It was pretty – I mean, it was four years in. It was doing great. Yeah, multiple seven figures and sales a year. Yeah, my lawyers begged me not to do it? Was it like just kind of picking it? It was pretty, I mean, it was four years in. It was doing great. Yeah. Multiple seven figures and sales a year.

Yeah. My lawyers begged me not to do it. They're like, what are you doing? You own this company, you're going to do a reality show. I was like, I just want to know Richard. I just feel like this is a chance. So, yeah. And all the business challenges took place around the world in different cities. And instead of, if you didn't win the business challenge, going into a boardroom to get fired, you had to do a crazy stunt, like a world record breaking stunt. Cause Richard is obviously like a huge adrenaline junkie guy. So, um, in addition to being an amazing entrepreneur and the very first day of filming, I had to climb the side of a hot air balloon at 9,000 feet in the air on a dangling rope ladder and have tea climb to the top and have tea on top of the balloon with Richard. It's insane. It's insane. So what did you guys talk about on top? Oh my God. I talked about like, how do we get down? And that's what

he said. You climb back down. I was like, what? I didn't think about that. It was so scary. Yeah. Yeah. So it took me 48 minutes to climb to the top. It's at the height of a 17 story building and the dangling rope ladder was just like hanging out into the abyss of nothingness. It took me 48 minutes to climb to the top. It's at the height of a 17-story building. And the dangling rope ladder was just like hanging out into the abyss of nothingness. It wasn't anchored to anything. So I'm like climbing it. And there's cameras up there? That was the first day of filming. So two months later, I know.

And there's cameras up there? Yes. I mean, helicopters circling. I have to watch this. I have to watch this. I had to do all these crazy stunts. The next stunt I had to do was I had to jump off the side of the Victoria Falls Gorge in Africa with a bungee cord attached to me. And my guy on my team was dangling on a wire, on a crane, 10 feet out from the cliff.

And each person had to come up and stand there and you couldn't run and jump. And you had to stand still and jump. And if he caught you, you were okay. And they'd put you back on the cliff. And if not, you fell 385 feet on a bungee cord. And so I am beyond terrified of heights. It's like one of my,

I'm so afraid of heights. I cry on airplanes still during takeoff a lot of times. And I was one of the only people to make the jump. Richard didn't make the jump. All these other guys that were like amazing athletes didn't make the jump. And I like to talk about this because I always talk about aiming high and the importance of aiming high in life. And then I think all of us, we don't aim high enough. And so watch where you're aiming.

And that saying, you know, if you shoot for the moon, if you miss, you're at least with the stars. And afterwards, everyone was like, Sarah, how did you make that jump? You're literally like the only contestant. Look at you. I said, well, I was aimed at the pulley six feet above his head. Where were you aiming? And I aimed, I didn't even look at him. I aimed six feet above his head and I landed at his waist and he caught me and everybody else was aiming at his face and landed at his feet and missed.

Amazing. So it was like a really just poignant example of the importance of aiming high. In all areas of life. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. This is fascinating. So what was the biggest lesson you learned from Richard?

Richard is a really, first of all, he's such a bias for action. It was fun to watch him have, he doesn't think things through to the point, you know, I mean, it's unbelievable. He has an idea and before you're even done saying, well, wait, writing it on the napkin, he's doing it. Yeah. He doesn't sleep much. He requires almost no sleep.

Wow. And he's always got a notebook. He doesn't sleep much. He requires almost no sleep. Wow. Um, and he's always got a notebook with him writing ideas. He delegates, he's really good at delegating. He's very good at empowering the people around him. And he didn't ask us to do any business challenge, any crazy challenge that he didn't do himself.

First. He was doing it with you. Yeah. He'd already done it. He did each one that we did himself also. Amazing. Yeah. Wow. Would you say he's the most inspiring entrepreneur you know? Probably. I mean, he's just, yeah. He's so much fun. He's a multi-billionaire that still lives his life like he has $20 in his pocket. What does that mean? What do you mean? It means he's up for anything. There's no entourage about him. He's not afraid of anything. Sometimes I've seen some people become a little bit more reserved or careful.

He still takes risks. Oh, yeah. Amazing. Have you been to his island many times? I have. Yep, Necker Island. That's cool. Yeah. Amazing. I'm curious, what is more challenging for you, running a billion-dollar brand or being a mom and a wife? Being a mom, because it's a moving target.

Like what worked yesterday doesn't work today. Exactly. I'm like, wait, that worked on you yesterday. Just wait until we're teenagers, right? Yeah, it's the most humbling thing. I mean, I feel like I gave birth to four teachers to me. I mean, your children are here to teach you. I'm a believer in that too.

So I'm a student right now and it's fascinating. So being a mom, more challenging than running a business for you. Yes. Wow. Being a mom and running the business and the brand just required a lot of hustle, just a tremendous amount of hustle. I always say that anybody you think is really, really lucky, there's a lot of sweat behind that luck. Amazing. Final few questions. I really appreciate this. I wish I could talk to you forever, but I know you got to get back to things. What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

My children. That's easy. Yeah. My four children. I think every mom has to say that, right? Or it's just like- I mean, it's true. It's really how I feel.

I'm also really grateful for being a woman born in the right country at the right time. I had nothing to do with that, and I'm very grateful. And I wake up all the time thinking of that. You know, my mom, we're only 21 difference in age, 21 years. My mom, her choices were so much more limited and what was expected of her or what her opportunities were. So, I mean, if you think about how long we've been on the planet, some people think a couple thousand years, some people think a couple million. Anyway, it's a long time. And by just 20 years in the right country, I feel like I was born

and had the opportunity for Spanx, you know, to fulfill a potential or something inside of me as a woman that was in me. And so I'm grateful for that. That's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. This is something called the three truths question that I ask everyone at the end. Okay. So if this was the last day many, many years from now for you, and it's your last day, and you've achieved. I have no idea why, but mustard came into my mind.

Okay, perfect. We'll see if that's a part of it. Okay. I don't know. I just thought I would share that with you. I was like, I want mustard. Is it like a mom thing after you have kids? I don't know.

Maybe it makes everything. Random cravings. Just put mustard on it. Perfect. Okay. I actually don't like- The last one on the planet. No, you're not the last one on the planet.

What's the question? No, no. This is the last day for you many years from now. Okay. It's the last day. you many years from now. So it's the last day. You've achieved everything you want. Everything in your business, your family, everything you want, you've got. But for whatever reason, everything you've created has been erased. Your books, your projects, your companies, it's all been gone. And your whole family and friends are there. And they say, we don't have anything to remember you by.

So can you write down on a piece of paper and a pen the three things you know to be true about the lessons you've learned in life that you would pass on to us? So three truths. This is so heavy. It's not that heavy. You can make it light. You can make it light. It can be simple. Oh, my God.

Wait. And this is off the cuff. So, again, three lessons that you would pass on to your friends, family, and the world. It can be anything you want. You can say, eat mustard as number one. Mustard makes everything taste good. Okay. Three truths. Geez.

The more you experience in life, the more you'll have to offer others. So, experience everything, anything and everything. Don't hold yourself back. Smile and be kind and don't take it all too seriously. Remember to laugh along the way. Those are great. Is that okay? I love those.

That doesn't have to be heavy, right? And use and pack mustard. I like it. Before I ask the final question. Oh my gosh, there's another one after that? Yeah, before I ask the final question, I want to know, is there ever a question you wish people would ask you

that they don't ask? No, I think you did a pretty good job. Okay. Yeah. Okay. How about that question for you? I'll tell you off camera. Okay.

I'll have to think about it. I don't know. I'm so focused on you right now. Again, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Sarah, for being an incredible inspiration in the world, for being a leader for women where I think a lot of women didn't have a lot of great leaders before you came around. And you've really stepped up to show people what's possible to have it all in all areas of life, family, relationships, career, business, friendships, your health. And you're an amazing example for so many people. And your generosity and your sweetness and your kindness is even more refreshing because of what you've created.

You're still a genuine, kind, caring, loving person. So I want to acknowledge you for the incredible gifts you are. Thank you. Yeah. That was so nice. Of course. You're welcome. I really appreciate that.

Of course. I took that in. Good. Yeah. Thank you. Good. Make sure everyone follows you on Instagram. Yes Instagram and you're going to do a giveaway. Yes, please.

Yes, I am going to do a giveaway. I just joined Instagram. Yes. Okay. So I ran around the airport asking people to follow me. There you go. In the airport. You're like hustling just like you were with Spanx.

I can't help myself. I'm like, hi, I'm Sarah. I just joined Instagram. Everyone in the terminal is like, who cares? It's funny. Okay, awesome. Is there anything else that we can do to support you before the final question? Because I still haven't asked you yet. I haven't asked you yet.

I haven't asked you yet. I just keep promoting you. So what else can we do to support you? Go buy Spanx. Buy the book. Follow you on Instagram. Yes, buy Spanx because I give back to help women. So the more Spanx that are bought, the more I can do to help.

It's all full circle. There you go. It's like a full circle thing here. Yeah. No, I think you did a great job. Thank you. And the belly book, the belly art project, buy them for everybody you know. It's all for, I mean, it's a gift that gives back. 100% is going to help moms in need. There you go. Love it. Okay. This is the final question okay sarah blakely what is your definition of greatness my definition of greatness would be going for it no matter what despite fear and making the absolute most of the life that you are given because it's not a dress rehearsal sarah blakely thank you so much. That was amazing. Absolutely. Appreciate it.

Wow. I'm so inspired by this episode. I loved this interview with Sarah and I wanted you to have access to this. She's such an inspiration and I love her story about failure, how she constantly was empowered to fail by her father. And I think that's so important because I think a lot of us are afraid to actually dive in and fail because of the embarrassment or the fear or whatever it may be, the discomfort. But when we can start to embrace that failure and really get excited about it and have fun with it and play with it, then we aren't afraid to fail as much. We can start to make it a game. And I think that's really cool.

We can learn from it quicker and try to improve it. And the more you're willing to put yourself out there, you're going to fail. But you continue to do it, you're going to learn and you're going to grow in that failure. And you're going to really succeed in a lot of ways. So if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. lewishouse.com slash 893. Text your girlfriends, your guy friends, anyone you can think of, send it to someone and say, hey, I really think you would like this. Let me know your thoughts on this. Also, you can text me at 614-350-3960 and text the word podcast. Every week I send out motivational and inspirational audio messages

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So check it out, lewishouse.com slash inner circle. And as George Bernard Shaw said, life isn't about finding yourself. It's about creating yourself. And Maya Angelou said, there is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you. You've got this story. You've got a gift. Don't let the fear cripple you and hold you back from sharing it with the world.

The greatest thing you can do is spread the gift, the gift of light, the gift of love, the gift of peace, the gift of fun, creativity, adventure. You've got it inside you. Now's the time to share it and spread your light. You've got it inside you. Now's the time to share it and spread your light. I love you so very much. Thank you for being here. Whether this is your first time or you've been a subscriber for seven years,

thank you so much. I'm so excited to continue this journey with you. And as you know, now's the time. It's time to go out there and do something great. Thank you.