The School of Greatness - 938 Dave Ramsey: Master Your Money In a Time Of Uncertainty

Episode Date: April 8, 2020

“You don’t die from fear.”QUESTIONSWhy is right now in these financially hard times the best time to make money? (1:20)What lessons have you learned from the recessions you have endured? (6:30)What do you tell people that have not been financially responsible? (13:21)What’s the worst investment and best investment someone could be making right now? (21:29)What was the greatest lesson that your father taught you? (31:41)What’s the wisdom you’ve learned from your partner? (33:40)YOU WILL LEARNWhy losing your job is an opportunity (2:00)What a recession is (4:11)How many jobs are being lost per case of coronavirus (5:12)Why now is the time to invest (9:42)What pressure is good for (17:01)How desperation and greed can poorly affect your investment (21:10)The purpose of repentance (28:21)How listening to your partner can help (36:18)If you enjoyed this episode, show notes and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/938 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes

This is episode number 938 with New York Times best-selling author and radio icon, Dave Ramsey. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. I want to start this interview with a quote from Dave Ramsey. He said, you must gain control of your money or the lack of it will forever control you.

gain control of your money, or the lack of it will forever control you. Welcome to this special episode where I am so excited to bring you Dave Ramsey. In a time of financial crisis, uncertainty, fear, worry, and anxiety around many things and money, also more than money, our health, our environment, everything. But people keep coming back to money with me saying, Lewis, I am struggling. I just lost my job. I just went through this uncertain time where I'm not sure about my money, my money situation. I've still got debt. I've still got bills. I've still got all these challenges. And yet here we are with coronavirus and these uncertain times. I've got money in the stock market.

That's going down. You know, my 401k, everything is going down. What do I do? And I have some insights from my personal experience from 2008 to 2010 of what it was like being broke, getting out of that situation in a dark economical time. But I don't have all the answers. And that's why I bring on great people like Dave Ramsey to share the answers. And let me tell you this, Dave blew me away in this episode.

He was like a preacher, motivational speaker. He was a money master, all these things. He brought all of it. I'm so excited that you get to learn from him. If you don't know who Dave Ramsey is, he's a personal money management expert and extremely popular national radio personality. He's got seven best-selling books. He's sold more than 11 million copies combined. This guy is a machine. By age 26, he had established a $4 million real estate portfolio only to lose it by age 30. And using the wisdom he gained, Ramsey rebuilt his financial life and

now teaches others how to be responsible with their money so they can acquire enough wealth to take care of loved ones, retire with dignity, and give generously to others. How many of you would love to give generously to others someday? I know I would love to. Ramsey's radio program, The Dave Ramsey Show, is heard on more than 500 radio stations throughout the United States and Canada in podcast format on iHeartRadio and the Dave Ramsey Show iOS application. Live on YouTube and as well live audio and video on DaveRamsey.com. The man is everywhere, right?

And in this interview, we talk about Dave's experience in the last three to four recessions and what that taught him about financial endurance. Also, now more than ever, why it is important not to make financial decisions based on fear or desperation. Please do not do this. How Dave looks to build leadership and character in his organization of 1,000 employees during this time. And I also got the opportunity to ask Dave some questions I asked The Rock

on his Instagram Live the other week, which were what are the greatest lessons his father taught him and what does he love the most about his wife. So while you're listening to this, make sure to tag me at Lewis Howes and at Dave Ramsey over on Instagram. Share it on Facebook and Twitter and social media and tell your friends about this episode who you think might gain inspiration from this. You have the power to change and inspire someone else's life right now. Just send them this link, lewishouse.com slash 938 to learn how to master your money in a time of uncertainty. And without further ado,

let me introduce to you the one and only Dave Ramsey. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the legendary Dave Ramsey in the house. Sir, thank you so much for taking the time. An honor to be with you, my friend. Thank you for reaching out. We got to connect, I think it was a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago, when I came down to Nashville and came into the studio. You were gracious enough to have me on and have a little chat with me.

And I've been wanting to have you in L.A. come for years now, but you're never here except for maybe once or twice a year and you're pretty booked. So now we've got this time to do it virtually. So I'm grateful we got the time to do it now and appreciate you for, for being here, man. Well, that was back before they closed LA. Yeah, right. Exactly. Is Nashville closed or are you guys? Yeah. Yeah. It's closed. Everything's pretty close. Yeah.

You just gotta be careful. You probably got a lot of your, your team staying at home and just uh almost all of them yeah i mean with that we got a thousand folks on the team and they're all working from home we got a few folks coming in to do the radio show here we got a few skeleton crew things but very minor most everybody's home well you're um i've been loving what you've been posting about on instagram and i'm i'm not sure if you have you have any idea what your team is posting or if it's your agent. Oh, I definitely do. It's amazing.

You're inspiring a lot of people, especially in these times of uncertainty financially. And I remember watching a clip of yours talking about 2008, 2010, that time frame where you said you made a lot of money in the last recession. And I think while people are struggling to figure out well you know I just got laid off and but how can I see this as an opportunity to make money when it seems like no one's buying anything or no one's investing in things but why is a time like this a great time to make money well it's a great time to be introspective and to pivot and to do resets and to try stuff you never tried before yeah because you might as well right we're all sitting

at home we got those free so uh i mean we pivoted a whole bunch of product lines here at ramsey and all kinds of things and we could throw all these offerings out there stuff that we might have messed around with split tests for a year or whatever instead we just dumped it on the street let's just try it just see if we can help some people and give some people something to do while they're at home with some digital products. And so that's exciting. You may have a situation where you hated your job. I mean, statistics tell us that 68% of Americans hate their job. And some of you don't have that job anymore. So you get the opportunity to get one you like now. And you might not have done that on your own. So this could be the best thing that ever happened to you there's a lot of good that comes out of this much pressure uh because it

forces it forces you to reset it forces you to rethink and uh you know two or three four crises ago i don't know back i'm an old guy now i had a personal crisis you know of losing everything i decided i was never going to be the victim of the things I can control when one of these things that I can't control come at me again. And so we got out of debt and we built an emergency fund. And we were in the last downturn of 2008, we were in a position of, we had piles of cash. And so I was able to buy real estate at a nickel and a dime on the dollar. And it was a wonderful time, but there were other times i was broke and couldn't take advantage of stuff being on sale but uh if you're in a position you got money right now the stock market's on sale real estate's not moved much yet but if you're

buying even consumer items other than toilet paper most things are on sale i know how much how much deeper down do you think this will take in terms of you said real estate's not on sale yet but it probably will be how much farther down do you think things are to go and for how long with your you know just your guess on this i mean you know weather forecasters and economists only people can be wrong all the time and still keep their job so i have no idea but i do know there's going to be a direct correlation between how long we stay out and how long it takes us to recover uh no kidding it's kind of common sense the obvious is every week that we're out there's another series of businesses that will never reopen they will close and so and that's a a recession is two consecutive

quarters of the gross domestic product all the goods and services produced in the u.s shrinking rather than growing that's all it is it receded rather than expanded and so recession sounds like a big scary depression type word but it simply means two quarters we've not had one quarter yet shrinkage so it would have to be up into the fall before you can officially declare this a recession or what results from the corona shutdowns a recession. So I don't know. But I'm sure hoping that the folks are not ill and that is the sooner we can get back to work, the fewer people are going to be affected by the economics of this. And it's not saying I'm trading a dollar for a life, but today, actually, we've lost about 100 jobs per case of corona right now.

Wow. So the corona shutdown. You're talking about in America? In America, yeah, we've lost about, you know, the corona shutdown has affected 100 in America. Yeah. We've lost about, you know, the Corona shutdowns affected a hundred families jobs, uh, for every case, uh, not, not death for every case of the virus. And I don't want anybody to be sick. I don't want anybody to die.

And I don't want the hospital bills, the beds and the ventilators running. I don't want any, I don't want any bad stuff. I don't want, I'm not a medical person, but I am an entrepreneur, and every day we're not working is a tradeoff, and it is a good tradeoff because you don't want to kill people. Believe me, I'm not saying that. But, man, it's painful to watch these people lose their businesses. You mentioned you've been through three or four recessions.

I don't want to say your age out here, but it sounds like you've been around the block. You've experienced some stuff. I only went through really, I guess, my adult life when I was 24, I guess it was, the 2008 to 2009 time frame. I just got out of school, and I was trying to figure out my life. I had three credit cards. I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. I was in college debt and I didn't have any skills that I thought were usable to get a job or do anything. And when I look back, you know, 11, 12 years ago, that was actually the greatest time and the greatest gift for me to

develop skills, to work hard, to hustle, to try to see how can I make a hundred dollars here and there, and then turn that into a business. And it was the greatest, it was the hardest time and the greatest time for me. I'm curious with your experience in, in watching these over the years, what were the greatest lessons you learned from each one that you applied in the last three weeks with your personal business? each one that you applied in the last three weeks with your personal business? Well, it is cliche, but cliches come from truth that, um, you know, that, that, you know, it's the greatest time and the worst time in your life. Uh, you don't want to go back there.

Good Lord. No, I don't want to go back there. I went bankrupt. I lost everything in my twenties. I don't want to go back there there but the lessons that i learned from that pain were so thorough uh pain is a thorough teacher yes that uh you know i i it was a rich time the fertilizer was everywhere lots of place to grow stuff you know lots of poop so you know and and that's you know that's what you had there in 2008 there weren't any jobs you couldn't like you could just i mean there was a contraction of the economy a recession and you had there in 2008. There weren't any jobs. You couldn't like you could just, I mean, there was a contraction of the economy, a recession, and there you are on your sister's couch. And so you found out that the secret sauce in your life is the guy in your mirror, that it's not some outside variable that's going to come and save you.

The Calvary's not coming. Santa Claus doesn't live in Washington, D.C. It's up to you, baby. Get up off the couch. I got to go leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. You found that truth in that moment. I found that truth that, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You know, that old saying, I found that truth. And so nowadays, now that I've been through, you know, Y2K or 911 or all these initials come at you, you know, the horrible thing of 2008, now the corona. The only thing I am sure is we're going to get through this. Yeah.

You get hope because you go, it's not going to kill you. Well, I guess you could get the virus. I don't mean that, but I'm saying the economic stress that we're under, the fear that we have, the concern or the worry that we have. You don't die from it. But you feel like there's this hopelessness, and the truth is that's unfounded. The truth is there's a lot of reason to have hope. By September, where do you really think we're going to be? By this time next year, are you not 90- something percent sure that the economy will be roaring

again and your life will be back to some level of normalcy you think it's going to be 10 years for you to personally recover from this no that's absurd and you know that once you've walked through several of them and so it's just to me it's like yeah you're gonna make it we're gonna be okay yeah and so your personal i guess i'm just curious about your personal thoughts. Do you think to yourself like, I'm fine because I've followed my seven steps for years and I've got, you know, cash and I feel safe and protected. So now how can I shift and adapt and pivot and serve my community and customers more? Or do you feel any anxiety personally at all or oh no none no i mean i'm we're we're in fabulous financial shape it's not a yeah i've got a lot of money invested in the

stock market it's going down i'm gonna put some more money in while it's on sale you know i mean it's if real estate goes on sale again i'll buy some more so no i mean my personal stuff it's it's it's not arrogance it's just i've been doing this a long time. You're the king of it, yeah. I'm the little pig in the brick house, you know. I mean, huff and puff, baby. But it does put you in a position to serve then. And truthfully, you get more joy even in a crisis in serving than you do in sitting in the basement and counting your coins. I mean, so the opportunity, I've got 1,000 folks on our team,

and the struggle and the scratching and the scrappiness and the clawing to keep this place running and all of them not have their incomes interrupted in any way during this time, that's an act of service and leadership. The act of service of speaking hope and life into the communities around America right now is an act of service on my part. It's being on the air three hours a day, the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm saying it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay over and over and over again.

Right now, that's my job. That's what I do. And that's just so much more satisfying than counting coins. Yeah. And that's just so much more satisfying than counting coins. Yeah. Now, I followed your steps when I was, you know, 25, 26, when I started making some money, when I was like, it's hard to follow a step when you feel like you're living off credit cards and in debt and you're not making any money.

You feel like this sense of helplessness, really. And I know I've listened to a lot of your shows with people where they feel helpless. really. And I know I've listened to a lot of your shows with people where they feel helpless and it takes that initial momentum to kind of kickstart it and see little savings here and there and then pay off one thing here and there. But I tell you, once I finished those, I guess really the first five to six steps, I don't have a home still. I still rent for personal reasons, but the first five to six steps and then building wealth and giving, Once I got through these, it's just like, man, you feel so much more bulletproof. I feel so much more bulletproof now.

After 10 years of building into this recession, I feel safe. I feel fine. I feel protected. And it gives me so much more peace of mind since I did follow your steps. So I first want to acknowledge you for that, for creating something so simple for us and providing this three hours a day for everybody. I think it's amazing. You sound like a preacher and a motivational speaker to me in the last few minutes, just speaking life and hoping to us. So I appreciate that.

What are you telling the people right now who are saying, you know what? I didn't follow your advice. I didn't do what I should have done. I still live off of credit cards. I overbought, paid for my house, and I've got this expensive lifestyle and credit cards that I know I'm wrong. I made a mistake. I own it, and now I'm screwed. And I just got 50% cut of my work. I might lose my job in two months. I've got all these bills. Like how do you even, how do you even respond to something like that? Well, I certainly don't say I told you so. That's not, that's not the message because I've been there. I've done stupid stuff too, and that's not helpful.

And it doesn't bring, it doesn't bring any healing. The thing is this, we all get wake up calls calls. We get wake-up calls in our relationships, our spiritual walk, our leadership styles. We get wake-up calls in our finances, and some people, the phone's ringing off the hook right now. They're getting wake-up calls on a bunch of things. They're at home with their family, and they're starting to realize, I was disconnected from my family. I haven't been plugged in. They got a wake-up call on their relationships at home with their family and it's, and they're starting to realize I was disconnected from my family. I haven't been plugged in. They got a wake up call on their relationships at home.

They've gotten a wake up call on, you know, I don't have any savings and I've got, I'm deeply in debt. This isn't working. And so the, you know, the, the, the cool thing is when you get the call, then you have to make the choice. Are you going to answer the phone? If you pick the phone up, that means maybe it's time to change. And you can look back and you might be 27 years old right now watching this and you're screwed.

You lost your job. You got no money. You got no savings. You feel like it's all over. And I remember in 1970, I was 10 years old and i was in my grandpa's backyard we were tearing down an old deck and i pulled some nails out of those old boards as we were taking the boards off and he taught me to put them down and straighten them with the hammer and save those used nails in a coffee can now my grandpa ramsey was one of my favorite people on the planet. This is 1970, and he was still answering the phone that rang in the Great Depression.

It changed his life. He was frugal and careful and wise with money the rest of his life. And so someday, 27-year-old, you're going to be sitting on the back porch with your grandkid, and you're going to remember back in alt-20, there was the coronavirus, and it changed my life. You're going to be that guy. You're going to be giving dad jokes and grandpa jokes like I am now, and you're going to get that opportunity.

I was 28 years old when i lost everything it was my fault it was the snl crisis the banking climate changed i'd built a house of cards i was stupid and the phone rang it was my wake-up call are you going to answer the phone are you going to change your life where you say never again i'm going to change your life to where you say, never again. I'm going to control the controllables to where I'm the little pig in the brick house. Never again. That may be the only thing you get out of this crisis, and if it is, you got enough. Preach to me, Dave. Come on now.

I love this. What's the biggest wake-up call for you that this has had? Maybe it's not the financial side of things or business because you guys are thriving is there something you know relationship family friendships health is there anything that's woken you up now or in the near future recently well i've spent the last 15 years pouring into our leadership team and then the remsey personalities creating the succession plan of and so um it's not a wake-up call it's more of a source of pride as to how our leadership team and our remsey personalities are reacting in the moment here uh without me coaching them

they already knew what to do they're leading they're out there doing it they're doing it they're not they're not waiting for grandpa Dave to say, what do I do? Tell me the steps. They already did it. They already did it. And then I found out about it, you know, and that's awesome. And so it's just a sense of, ah, this is starting to work. You know, I mean, when Rachel Cruz and Ken Hogan and these guys are doing,

Ken Coleman are doing all these hits and Chris Hogan, all these guys are doing all these hits. He's radio and TV and appearances and all this stuff everywhere. And the networks are calling and asking for them, uh, which is awesome. And so, um,

you know, that kind of thing is, uh, I don't know if it's a wake up call as much as it is. It's very satisfying to say, you know, all that work of the last decade and a half, uh,

of getting everybody ready to win because we were winning in a winning environment but then when you get the pressures on and you get squeezed you see what comes out and it's good stuff coming out what was the last uh i mean what year would you say was the last big wake-up call for you around you know one of the main areas of your life? Do you remember when that was where you're like, oh, I'm eating a little too many candy bars or my relationship? It sounds like you've had the finances down for many years, but is there another time where you're like, oh, you know what? I really didn't do as good as I should have done here.

I guess it's probably leadership, and I probably get one of those calls every day um there's some days i'm a world-class leader and some days i'm just a butt in what way like how are you so i mean sometimes i do a better job than other times as a leader and i uh uh i own it i'm i get it but uh you'd think as old as I am, I'd be doing better. But I know what I'm supposed to do, but sometimes I just don't have the energy to do it. I don't care.

And I should just care more. I really shouldn't be such a grouch. Oh, no, you care a lot about a lot of people. I'm curious, what's the best dad joke you share? Oh, Lord, I can't. I have no idea. Oh, you got me. I'm not a dad joke guy really other than just a stupid stuff off the cuff that doesn't even make sense generationally. So yeah, no good dad jokes. What, um, what is the most common thing that you're hearing with your, your, the people that are calling in for you right now? What's the thing

that you hear over and over again that they need the most support with? I think there's a sense, I think when hope gets gut-punched the way it has for folks right now, the answers fall, a lot of them fall in the category of this is not going to last forever because there's this sense that

you know stock market's down do i take my investments out well only if you think it's going to stay down forever right uh because you know you're you're 35 you're going to be investing for 30 more years you don't think it's going to come up in 30 more years i mean really you're predicting the end of america i mean that's that's silly but your emotions tell you lies when when they're based in fear and when they're based in anger and they tell you lies and and they tell me lies we believe those lies in situations like this so uh you know i lost my job i know but that's happened before and probably happen again just get you another one well there's a lot of people hiring right now there are a lot of people hiring amazon amazon's hiring a hundred thousand people right now yeah so i mean there's

jobs it may not be the one you want but you can get some food yeah uh i mean get you a leaf blower and rich people are afraid of leaves you know i mean you can make some money so there's some stuff to do out there but the uh uh so the thing that the sense that that that the thing you're afraid of is going to last longer than it is yeah uh whether it's the actual virus whether it's the shutdowns whether it's economic repercussions of the shutdowns whether it's the employment situation uh whether it's the quarantine it feels like it's going to last forever but i mean the chances of you being in the exact situation you're in in a few months is almost zero your life is not a snapshot you're not trapped in this moment it's a film strip the story's going to continue to unfold yeah and so

that that when hope takes a gut punch though we and we get down in that fear or we're mad or however it is we manifest that stuff, that those negative things, the emotions that we all have in these situations, that's where a lot of my questions are coming. They're all built in that. And I'm spending all my time going, yeah, but it's not going to last forever. Yeah, but it's not going to last forever. Yeah, but let's visit this in May. I think you're going to be okay. By June, are you even going to be okay uh by june are you

even going to remember this it's the great toilet paper shortage of the spring you know i don't know i mean what is it you know it's you know some people are going to have devastating horrible things that are going to be life changing but that that's a very small percentage compared to the number of that are worried about it yeah and so you know and you're gonna get out of it you're gonna get out of it okay most i mean you're you're gonna be okay i like i like preacher dave man this is a this is a preacher show you know i like this what is the worst investment people should be making during this time and what's the best investment they can make um in my life when i have become desperate right after that's when i become stupid yeah and explain the other one the other one is when i get well when you

know when you get scared and you go rushing towards something out of fear that does a sense of desperation this thing when you do that you're getting ready to screw up i mean just count on it uh and the other time you do that is if you're greedy uh if you think you okay i got this one i can take advantage of this and uh i mean greedy as a lack of virtue greedy i don't mean greedy in a a positive way where i'm being ambitious okay i mean the negative sides of greed and so if you're functioning in desperation or in this no holds barred i've i'm gonna just clean up on other people's pain thing That's when you're getting ready to screw up and you're getting ready to make a major mistake. And so you're set up also for con artists when you do that. And so if you're functioning in high emotion, your brain just doesn't work good.

My friend Art Laffer says, when you're panicked and when you're drunk, you don't make good decisions. My friend Art Laffer says, when you're panicked and when you're drunk, you don't make good decisions. And so, you know, when you're on high emotion, your brain is, your critical thinking skills shut down. And so, that's when I've made the biggest mistakes in my life is when I was desperate. And the few times that I was greedy where I thought, oh, I'm going to slip in there and that's going to be easy money. What was that? Easy money. Could you share a story of one of those greedy times where you tried to jump in?

Yeah, a buddy of mine, I was in my 20s, and a buddy of mine was buying gold. Now, this is in the 80s. It's a million years ago. And he's buying gold. And he had this friend that was a gold bug. He was picking gold. And this guy had picked the gold prices where they were going within a dollar like 14 times in a row and so we both dropped five grand into this thing and if we had hit it was a it was a margin deal and so I would have made 50 grand and I thought I'm putting

five thousand bucks in here I'm gonna make 50 grand but it's a margin play which means you're either gonna make 50 grand you're gonna make zero and so he picked it right 14 times the time i got in the 15th time missed it i got zero turned 5 000 bucks into zero instantly last time i bought gold last time i played stuff on margin last time i got greedy was there is there ever a time where, so what's the difference between greed and a great opportunity of being ambitious? Can you make money? Can you make money fast in certain things? Or is typically most things take a certain amount of time and energy and

effort. The vast majority of people who are successful financially and successful have done it incrementally. There's very few people who you see a meteoric rise in their wealth or their success that keep it. And I think because you build your character along the way to be able to hold on and be able to do it. I think that's, that's my theory on it.

I mean, I got rich quick. I started with nothing. And by the time I was 26, I had $4 million worth of real estate. I built a house of cards, you know, and I had a million dollar net worth. I made $250,000 in 1984. I was making 20,000 bucks a month and in my twenties. So, I mean, but you thought I had it all figured out, meteoric rise to the top. But the very thing that caused me to go so fast that I missed the blind spots. I missed the detour signs. I missed the bridge out signs.

And so I built this house of cards I thought was a stone house, but I was naive and didn't know. And along comes some regulations changes, a few shifts in the economy, a little SNL crisis and kaboom. It all comes down uh you know all of a sudden dave looks like an idiot instead of a genius uh and so it turns out i was a little of both because you don't build something like that at 25 if you're not somewhat of a genius but i was obviously an idiot in the way i built it and so i get to do it again get the opera the wonderful opportunity to start over and go the right way yeah yeah but i mean

in the midst of that as i was falling over it took two and a half years to lose everything i had stuff presented to me i almost got conned serious con like people just a real con artist type guy there's not many of them out there right most of the time you get screwed by well-meaning ignoramuses but these these were real con artists coming into my path, and I was about to give them money because I so desperately needed to turn quick money into big money to save myself. I was desperate. And right about the time you get desperate is when you get stupid. So don't make those decisions. So there's not really, so what I'm hearing you say is the wealthy, wealthy people, it takes time and it's incremental. It's not an

overnight thing. It's not a quick rise. There might be some spikes here and it's incremental it's not an overnight thing it's not a quick rise there might be some spikes here and there but it's typically over time it's okay to take a spike but anytime i get a spike i'm always a little suspicious of it really it makes me it makes me even more careful i draw back and i go well that's really cool is it okay you know because it's not normative normative is incremental uh And so I always tell entrepreneurs, it's okay to be on the cover of Slow Company magazine. I love this. Now, something that you mentioned and something I just know about you as an individual, your values and the values of your business and your brand is how important character is from every person that comes there.

and your brand is how important character is from every person that comes there. I think it's a 12-part interview series before someone can be hired. Is that correct? Yeah. 12 interviews. I'm not sure how public that is, so let me know if I'm wrong. That's okay. That's fine. You go through the ringer to get in here.

Yeah, exactly. It pretty much takes you six years to get a job. Not that bad. To talk to your spouse and your dogs and everything to make sure that you have great character. And this is what I love about you is your leadership on a certain standard for the human beings you surround yourself with and who are part of your, your mission. And I think it's really inspiring. And I look up to that. I'm curious, how do you teach character for people that don't have what you want yet? And maybe not everyone's at the level you want, but how do you, can people

change their character over time? And how do you shift that? Oh yeah. I mean, it's a decision. You can just decide. I mean, think about it. What's integrity, integrity. I can just decide I have it. Yeah. And now now i do and i start acting out of the fact that i am a person of high integrity uh i'm a person who's dependable i'm a person you can count on i got your six i got your back i'm not gonna i'm not gonna cut your throat from behind uh and you can just decide to be that today maybe you were the world's worst gossip before and none of your friends could count on anything except you slitting their throat from behind. But you can just decide just like that to change. And so it's a wonderful decision. In Christianity, we call it repentance. You're walking one way, you stop, you turn, you walk

the other way. That's all it is. You turn around. You do a turnaround. And so for most of us, it's a journey. You don't do it instantaneously i can decide to control my tongue i can decide to speak life over people rather than death and filth over them i can decide that uh i don't always do it right i just told you a minute ago sometimes i'm a jerk right uh so but it's just and we don't by the way we don't have any perfect people working here we have people that are trying you're not perfect we had no just read the articles okay but but now the uh i mean that that the thing is we got people that are trying yeah they're humble in the sense that they know they're not but we're listen we aspire to be people that can be counted on we aspire to be people of value we aspire to be people that can be counted on. We aspire to be people of value.

We aspire to be people of noble character. And when we don't, then we know that we didn't. But most people just go along and their language is filthy and their life is filthy. And then they wonder why they're not attractive. And they wonder why they're not winsome. And the opportunity does not come to them. It's because opportunity runs from that. People don't want to do deals with people they can't count on who are crooks. They don't want to do deals with people who, you know, run around on

their wife, because if you run around on your wife, you're probably going to mess me over in a business deal. I mean, you know, so this is a lack of character. And so I'm always leery when I run into that out there in the marketplace. When we're doing deals, we're hiring a vendor. We're bringing somebody on the team. We're interacting with new friends we have and so forth. And it's not that I'm being judgmental. I just want to be wise because, you know, you become who you hang around with for sure. Your speech patterns, you read the same books

you have the same thought patterns you're hopeful or fearful based on who you run around with your inputs um you know you we know this because those of us that raise kids we don't let our kids run around with juvenile delinquents because we know they'll come home acting like juvenile delinquents hello right so and adults aren't any different they're the same thing i read the same books my best buds read i'm i think the same way they think and so i have to be careful who are my who's my inner circle who's my posse that's influencing dave and so that's the kind of stuff we're doing and you know as a person of faith that means i'm going to church on sunday and uh it's not because they have some kind of magic pill down there uh it's because i need to be connected to god because i'm not going to get this by myself otherwise.

That's the way I view it, and that's what we do around here. I'm curious. I've got about six or seven minutes left with you. I've got a few questions left. I asked a question. The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, had an Instagram Live over the weekend, and I asked him a question on Instagram Live, his first Instagram Live. And I asked him a question just via the text, but he said,

Lewis Howes, great question, and he responded to it. And I'm going to ask you the same question. And I'm curious your response. The question to him was two questions that he answered. One, what was the greatest lesson that your father taught you? So I'll let, I'll let you, uh, answer that one first. What's the greatest lesson that your, your father taught you? My dad was in the real estate business when I was growing up and was a student of all the great, uh, sales trainers and positive thinkers of that day.

So, I mean, we had breakfast, lunch, and dinner with Zig Ziglar, Earl Nightingale, Paul Harvey, Cavett Robert, Charlie Tremendous Jones. And he infected us, my dad did, infected my sister and I with the belief that we can do anything. I really believe I can do anything. Now, I'm not going to be in the NBA, okay? I'm not going to play in the NFL, okay? I don't mean that.

But I'm saying if I apply myself and I figure out what the steps are and what the blockers are and I do the steps and I overcome the blockers, it's up to me. The the calvary's not coming and so it was a wonderful wonderful childhood in that regard very entrepreneurial household that goes with that obviously uh but if you will get up and leave the cave kill something and drag it home you'll be okay love that answer uh the second question i asked him was, what is the thing that he admires and respects the most about his wife? And I'm curious for you as well,

the thing you admire and respect the most about why you decided to be with your wife. She has uncanny, scary wisdom. Her insight, she can read a room. i just go in a room and have a party and then wonder about the people later she can walk into a room and reads everybody's mail before we leave and she comes out and she goes you know that guy over there that's a good guy you know gal over there she's getting ready to be in. She's getting ready to step in a bear trap. And she has this discernment, this ability to read people, and this level of wisdom.

And I've got to tell you, that's a really handy decision-making tool to have her, you know, standing beside me going, uh-uh, we're not doing that. I'm like, every time I go against that suggestion, I lose $10,000 or more. So I'm not doing that. Right. So do you lean on her for a lot of, uh, feedback or, or wisdom on big deals that you

do or decisions in the business? One of the things we learned when we went broke was, was that I was not listening to her. Um, and, uh, she wasn't speaking up either. She was kind of doing the, uh, uh, I'm I'll stay home and she's Southern, you know, I'll stay home and raise the kids and uh and meanwhile she's thinking bridge out bridge out bridge out you know and not saying so so she had to learn to find her voice in this but there's a proverb that says who can find a virtuous wife

for her worth is far above rubies the heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain interesting wow so i decided i didn't want a lack of gain and so uh i i uh and she's virtuous so i can count on her and uh if she's not virtuous i call her on it uh but when we get ready to make major decisions, a major purchase of an asset at the office, a major hire of a leader, when we first started hiring people, that's where we learned to interview spouses. Sharon and I would go to dinner with you and your spouse with our first 30 or 40 team members that came on board years ago. And I'm just looking for her discernment because she's got those antennae on her head. She can go, weirdo, weirdo, and she can spot them a mile away, and I can't. And so, because I just like everybody. I'm just like a Labrador retriever, you know.

But she helped me figure out that we're not going to hire. And sometimes their spouse spoke into it. So it's a two-way street. You know, we just have dinner. It's not a formal interview. We just have dinner with you. And our team still does this in the hiring process.'s the final thing you mentioned it earlier spousal interview we call it it's not really an interview but it comes from that proverb and it comes from that idea we don't uh right now our ramsey family

foundation our charitable giving stuff is run by my daughter denise she's our director of that for the last decade and she's very competent as the director of a substantial foundation. But when we're doing something weird that's off budget, she emails in to Sharon and I. And this afternoon, I got an email, large amount, got the ability to pay this caterer to go in and feed all the nurses and feed all the docs at this hospital. go in and feed all the nurses and feed all the docs at this hospital do we want to spend that and sharon and i make that decision together and so quick email took 30 seconds yeah we got the budget got the room in the budget yeah we got a miscellaneous category tap it do it game on okay wasn't really a tough decision because all the mechanisms were put in place ahead of time

but major hires major major purchases, major donations, that kind of stuff, uh, she speaks into, uh, and now we buy copier paper without talking to her. Okay. That's not what I'm talking about, but, but, and, and, you know, most of the hires down here, she was not involved in 98% of who works here today or 90% of who works here today. But, uh, but still there's a tremendous benefit to having that wisdom in my life. Amazing. That's beautiful. It's one of the reasons I'm vastly successful. That's good. That's good. A great partner, great wife will support you in either being greatly successful or a failure, I guess, or falling down over and over. I want to be mindful of our time because I think we have

maybe two minutes left. So I want to make sure I ask this last couple of questions quickly. This is called the three truths. I ask this to everyone at the end. I want you to imagine a hypothetical situation. It's the last day on earth for you. And it's a hundred years from now or however long that you can live. But at some point you got to say, okay, today's the time that I go. And you have achieved everything. You have built this amazing business. You've seen your family grow up and people are happy. You've done it all. And for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your audio, videos, books, you've got to take them with you to the next place. So no one has access to your content anymore. Again, hypothetical.

And all you could leave behind were the three things you know to be true. That would be the three lessons you would leave behind with everything you've learned in your life. I call it the three truths question. What would be your three truths? God is real. You can count on him. People are worth the investment. They'll be your greatest joy and they'll break your heart, but they're worth the investment and everybody needs a dog. I've never heard that one, but I just got a dog six months ago and it's like the greatest joy of my life right now. I love that answer. Dave, how can we support you? You've got an amazing radio show. You've got so many books. Where can we go to learn more about our finances and our life and all the things you're doing?

Ah, man, we're great. Just hit DaveRamsey.com, and if we can serve you and help you with your career, your money, your marriage, any of the stuff that we're doing over here, it's what we do, and it'd be our greatest honor to be able to serve you as you walk through a transformational time in your life. And we're not, we're imperfect people helping imperfect people get better. You're not perfect yet? That's the third time you've asked that question. This is my, I'll leave you with the final question. Before I do, I want to acknowledge you,

Dave, for the consistency you've had over decades of serving people at the highest level while being imperfect, yourself constantly learning, growing, and acknowledging the imperfections you have. Thank you for, for being a preacher today. I think people really needed to hear that it's all going to be okay. It may take months. It may take a year, but eventually you'll have the strength to move forward.

And I just now acknowledge you for your joy and, and constant giving nature. It's really beautiful to see someone that I admire and respect to be at that level and with such a great character. Very kind, my friend. Of course, man. And hopefully I'll see you soon in LA when you're out here or when I'm in Nashville next time.

The final question, what's your definition of greatness? I have to probably wordsmith that a little bit, but it's going to have something to do with service. There are very few people that are great that don't know how to serve. There are very few people that are happy that haven't learned how to serve. Whether the service becomes generosity or whether it's a servant leader or whether it's a dad who gives really good hugs to his babies, it's got to be around service.

Dave Ramsey, thank you for your love and generosity and your wisdom. I really appreciate you. Thank you very much. Appreciate your friendship, brother. Thanks for having me. Of course. I hope this brought you some inspiration. I hope this brought you some education and tools on how to really master your money in

a time of uncertainty. If you enjoyed this, please let me know. Subscribe to the podcast over on the School of Greatness on Apple and Spotify and leave us a review over there if you enjoyed this episode. Please share this with a friend. You have the power to transform someone's life, to change someone's life, to improve them in a powerful way right now. life, to change someone's life, to improve them in a powerful way right now. Just text one friend or send a message in a WhatsApp group chat to lewishouse.com slash

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If you enjoyed it, thank you so much for being here. We've got some incredible interviews and guests and topics coming up like mastering your intimate relationships during times of isolation. The previous episode was all about how to launch a side hustle business during times of economic stress and struggle. And we've got so many more goodies coming up for you. So make sure to subscribe and stay tuned for more great content on the School of Greatness podcast. And I loved this quote in the beginning of the show. Dave Ramsey said, you must gain control of your money or the lack of it will forever control you.

Don't allow this to be a waste of time where money controls you in the future. Take command of your financial education and information about your finances. When you understand it better, when you know what's happening, you will be in more control and you'll be able to make better decisions moving forward. It's not going to be easy all the time. It may be challenging. It may be hard,

but it will be worth it and you are deserving of it. I appreciate you. I'm so grateful for you. I hope you know how much you matter. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.