The School of Greatness - 973 Creativity Hacks and Building Mass Influence with Hank Green

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

“Curiosity is the only way we bridge gaps, the only way we build knowledge.”Lewis is joined by #1 New York Times best-selling author, multi-billion viewed YouTuber, and Internet entrepreneur Hank Green to discuss why attention is the most valuable commodity in the world, why it's smart to think of ideas as business models, and why we need to break down the walls around vulnerability and curiosity.

This is episode number 973 with number one New York Times best-selling author Hank Green. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur, and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Napoleon Hill once said, the ability to influence people without irritating them is the most profitable skill you can learn.

them is the most profitable skill you can learn. And Walt Whitman advised, be curious, not judgmental. I'm super excited today because my guest is a true Renaissance man who has lived a life of both curiosity and influence. Hank Green started making YouTube videos way back in the day in 2007, and you might recognize him from Vlog Brothers, which he hosts with his famous author brother, John, and now he runs an educational media company with multiple online channels, over 10 million subscribers, and more than 2 billion total views. He's also an entrepreneur who founded VidCon, among other highly successful enterprises, as well as a podcaster and number one New York

Times bestselling author. His new novel, A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor, is coming out this July. And honestly, this was one of the most surprising and wide-ranging interviews I've done in a while. Hank's brain really works on another level. And in this episode, we talk about the power of attention and why it's the most valuable commodity in the world, the concept of creativity and what drives its production, how we should break down the walls between vulnerability and curiosity, why it's smart to think of ideas as business models, why donating money to charity is just like buying a new shirt, and so much more.

I'm telling you, this is exciting. And if you're finding value in Hank's wisdom, make sure to share this as well with someone who needs to hear it. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, Hank Green. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness. i'm super excited about our guest today hank green is here he's a famous youtuber podcaster extremely successful entrepreneur educator number one new york time best-selling author and he's got a new book coming out really soon which i'm excited to talk about And the book is actually all about how we devote our attention and spend our time in a modern world. And kind of the new attention economy

is defined by Google and Facebook and these social media applications. And I wanted to, I wanted to ask you to start, why is attention the most valuable thing in the world? Because I think this is a, what everyone wants right now is more attention, more likes, more followers, more people looking at their content, at their businesses. Why is this so valuable? Well, I think there's a really objective reason. And that is that it's the most finite resource. There's, you know, Ultimately, maybe there's a bunch of gold on the asteroids and we'll be able to find that and there will be way more gold and the price of gold will drop. But really, the thing that there is only so much of is our own human lives and how

I spend my attention, whether that's on my work or whether it's on someone else's work or something that I'm loving and enjoying, that's really the only choice I have. It's the only thing I do. And a lot of my attention is spent internally. It's my brain sort of monitoring and conversing with itself. But a lot of it is external. and we kind of let our attention, allow it to be hacked in a lot of different ways by creators like ourselves, but also by platforms. And I'm very aware as a person who makes content

and like my job is often to capture someone's attention and hold onto it for as long as I can, whether I'm trying to teach them something or just make them laugh, there's a bit of a science to it. And it's work and it's hard and it's interesting and it's a great nut to crack. But like it is,

especially if we actually head into this future that a lot of, you know, futurists kind of predict where there's a lot of abundance in terms of like food is very cheap and housing is very cheap. And like we sort of get there. The thing that we will not make any more of is just is the time in people's lives. You know, we can make more of that by making more people and by making them live longer. But like to some extent, that's a finite resource. It's also

very clear that what we care about is often not attention specifically. It is attention of the people that we sort of consider to be part of our in-group, our culture. Like I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the attention of people in, you know, India, despite the fact that like my content actually reaches a lot of people in India. I don't think about it. And so like that, you know, it seems like it's objective and there's a really objective story to tell about it, but it also has this element of subjectivity to it. The other reason is that you can do things with attention. You really, it's getting harder and harder to turn money into attention we're watching this with a

lot of people who are trying to like launch platforms and you know like like quibi is like spending all this money but they only got a couple million subscribers right and people aren't sticking and they have the best content but it's something's not working yeah yeah yeah they got all they did the traditional media thing where you get the famous people and you spend money marketing it and it didn't work so it's kind of getting harder oh why why is that well why let's not talk about that let's talk about why is it harder and harder to monetize attention even when you have seemingly the best things lined up to grab attention so so that's like spending money to try and get attention. And we know how it works now. It's not a mystery anymore. We are very aware of the ways, more and more, every person is becoming more aware of the ways in which our attention is being attempted to be captured. And we are really wary of it.

And we know when it seems fake. You know, if you're paying Rachel Brosnahan to say something nice about something, I can tell the difference when she's being paid versus when she's actually excited. And I just picked a name out of a hat there. I haven't actually seen her. Is that the actress from... Marvelous Miss Maisel.

Yes. I actually loved her in House of cards yeah i don't know if you remember watching that from the early early on in that series yeah yeah so you're saying you can tell the difference between someone giving an authentic when they just say you know i'm not being sponsored by this product but i just love this so much i wanted to share it on my instagram story that probably does better than someone sitting there all professionally like check out this product that's so so i'm really excited people are super aware of it they like we're really culturally sensitive to authenticity now that's sort of the word that we use and i'm

not entirely clear on what that word actually means but we all have a kind of good idea of it but it is always it remains fairly easy to turn attention into money and that's actually getting easier. And so if you can have, like, if you can build up the capturing of attention, the sort of relationship with an audience and actually provide them with value and they trust you, then there are ways to, you know, like even if money is the goal, there are ways to turn that into money. But ultimately I think that money doesn't need to be the goal because I think that there are lots of values to having that attention that aren't money. What's the goal? You could be shifting the world in a way that you prefer. I mean, I think that this is ultimately why we want

money. It's to create a world that you prefer. And this is an environment to create a experience that you enjoy more. And that might be places or it might be shoes. It might be charity. Like this is a thing people like we do a lot of charity projects and people are always like Hank and John are such good folks. And I'm like, I'm just buying the world I would prefer. It's the exact same as a new shirt.

Yeah, I just would prefer a world in which fewer moms die like because that that world brings you more joy more happy yeah yeah and I think it's a more stable world for like the future and for my children and you know child I only have one child right with not children uh yeah and and it that is actually, to some extent, easier to do with attention. And that's why they call people who have our jobs, sometimes they call us influencers, because what we actually do is like, we can good storytelling, which it's kind of hard to have our jobs if we aren't able to sort of capture like ideas into good stories. Yeah. What's the difference between attention and time? That's a great one.

That's a great one. Yeah. I, I talk a lot about the, in the first book, I talk a lot about this sort of two qualities of fame. There's the number of people who know who you are, and then there's the level of devotion that they have to you. So like a cult leader. So it's a breadth versus depth.

Yeah. So there's the cult leader who has like 20 people who think he's God. And then there's David Schwimmer who like, everybody knows who David Schwimmer is, but there's no like David Schwimmer fan club. And now I've picked on David Schwimmer who like everybody knows who David Schwimmer is, but there's no like David Schwimmer fan club. And now I've picked on David. Maybe there, maybe there is online somewhere, but it's somewhere. Yeah.

Yeah. Not the biggest group of people. And that's sort of a, to me, a similar thing. Whereas like, like time doesn't matter if the attention is being divided between five different things.

So that's just a math problem then like if i'm playing you know if i'm looking at tiktok while watching a tv show then like neither of those things are really getting my attention and a lot of my attention is sort of being poorly spent because just like refreshing my tiktoks to see how well they're doing isn't giving me did I just hit a nerve there? Oh no, I'm just laughing because I can see myself doing this and other people doing this. Isn't it like that attention isn't being spent on anything useful, but it is distracting me from something that might be a good source for my attention. So attention is actually when like

the mental activity is being devoted to something that devoted to the thing that you are actually spending time doing so attention is devotion time is it's it's like it's like um you know it's like acceleration like you have to have both of them you know you have to have the the movement and the and the mass they're both but i'm hearing you say they're both limited resources right because you said attention is kind of the main limited resource yeah well time is movement and the mass. But I'm hearing you say they're both limited resources, right? Because you said attention is kind of the main limited resource. Yeah. Well, time is ultimately the limited resource because we're all going to die and we only

have so much of it to spend. But we can be paying less or more attention during every moment of our lives. Right now, I'm paying a ton of attention because I'm trying to seem interesting and I'm trying to really listen to you and also understand what I'm saying. And now I'm like doing that in a meta level. So I'm getting confused. And whereas a lot of my day I spend time, but I don't spend a lot of attention. Interesting.

And I sort of. What does that mean? You spend time, but you don't spend attention. What does that mean? You spend time, but you don't spend attention? Because I, I may be like, there might be a lot of inward stuff going on or things that I'm trying to distract myself from, or that I'm trying to find something interesting. And this is the sensation of that. We all, we all know of wanting to be on Twitter,

but not enjoying being on Twitter or whatever the equivalent of that is. And we're sort of like searching for the next thing that will make me like have a sensation that like sensation seeking and and that that attention is not being spent well the the value of that attention is not converting to yeah the the attention is not converting to value right what do you think is the danger of monetizing attention then? Well, I guess there's two different ways to think about that. So as a creator, the first thought I had was monetizing that attention, meaning monetizing the attention that I have been given by people.

So they've given me a certain amount of their time and their respect. So they've given me a certain amount of their time and their respect. And I think that there's a huge danger in monetizing that in ways that I don't believe in or that I don't. And I think this is a big balance with influencers, which is a word I hate. But when we're talking sort of in the marketing world, that's what we're called. Sure. That you need to find the things that are actually going to help the people that are your people and not the things that are you know like ultimately either of us could start a start a pyramid scheme and make a bunch of money right and like we we might eventually go to prison

but probably we just would lose all our credibility yes that that would most likely but like we along the path of of losing our credibility we'd probably make would most likely, but like we, along the path of, of losing our credibility, we'd probably make a bunch of money, but like, you don't want to do that because well, one money isn't the thing anymore. And I think people are more and more aware of that too. There are actually ways to help people and make money along at the same time. And for me, you know, I, I, and I me, and I know that you're the same way, some of that is like, there's this product, people should know about this product, this is why advertising actually exists,

is to tell people about a thing that exists that they don't know about that might help them. They're gonna buy it if it helps, they're not going to buy it if they don't want it. There's also making your own thing. And this is the thing that I love the most. I have opportunities to create a business or a product that, you know, I have this asset that no one else has access to. This like amazing group of people who trust me, whose trust I've earned and who I take, I take them very seriously. And like, they understand,

like we have these shared values and I can imagine a thing that might help them and then have it become real because that's becoming more and more easy these days, whether it's a physical product or, you know, an experience or something. And, and then, you know, I can like make that for them and it can deepen their experience of, you know, the community that they're a part of, but it can also be a big, helpful, like, like add to their lives. As I mean, as someone who is, I mean, it seems like you've achieved a lot in many different areas of business and life. How do you manage time and attention on all the different companies, YouTube channels, podcasts, businesses that you're flipping events? How do you manage time and attention to accelerate the value and monetize them at the same time?

Yeah, I don't do a good job of this. I'm not, I'm not. And I sometimes I think that the people I hear who say that they're good at this are just lying because I can't imagine. I can't imagine actually being careful or like serious about time management. My time management strategies are what is the thing that I'm most excited about? And what is the thing that I'm most worried about? And sometimes those two things are weirdly enough the same thing. Like I love solving hard problems. And so sometimes the thing that I'm really worried about is also something I'm really excited about. Oftentimes, because we are, you know, we are working. The thing that I'm most worried about is something that I would much rather not do. But I, you know, I find ways to do it. And I think that to some

extent that's driven by anxiety. And to some extent it's driven by obligation. Like I care about the people I work with. I care about my audience and I have an obligation to them. I, I have set it up so that like they rely on me to some extent. And that a lot of what drives me is fulfilling obligations that I have to, to people who I respect. Yeah. And, um, you know,

I think that I'm pretty good at, at working efficiently. I definitely get hyper-focused and can drive for, you know, four hours without noticing that I've been hungry the whole time. I have to eat or whatever. You hold your bladder. I can hold my bladder for literally 14 hours without moving on a plane if I need to. Because I've done it so many times. I'm always like, why is it going to help me when I'm like 60? Yeah. Yeah. You just get those muscles real strong. That's how it works. You're flexing them. You got, it's great. So for me, it's, it's kind of the, the intensity of the internal passion and the intensity of the

fire that I need to put out, you know, like either, either compounding or competing. Right. So I, what I really, I'd really do try to set my life up so that I have a lot of free time to screw around. I think this is one of the most important things you just said, because I don't think enough creators give themselves what I call strategic messing around, where you're just throwing a Frisbee, you're walking around the park, you're playing with a friend. I just got a scooter a few weeks ago, and I literally scoot around my studio in a circle and make a game out of it of how many times

can I go around without touching the ground? Stupid, time-wasting exercises that unlock a potential. How important is that strategic messing around or whatever you call it for you? It's so important. For me, it's not usually a

scooter. Like I am obsessed with media. And so downloading TikTok and being like, okay, how do I get my first 50,000 followers on TikTok? Like to me, that's a fascinating question. And also like not just how I would do it, because of course my strategy is going to rely on the last 10 years of audience building and like people having some vague idea of who I am sometimes, but also watching how other people have done it, how they're doing it, what's taking off, what's working, what's interesting. And also, you know, the different areas, like the different cultures that exist on a single platform.

I love to go into parts of Twitter that I don't usually spend time in and be like, the culture is different here. The people are different here. They care about different things. They talk in different ways. And it's open for me to explore and learn about. For me, that curiosity about how humans connect to each other is a real driver for me. So I can...

So spending four hours on TikTok is not a waste of your time. It's a use of creative strategic time. It can be a waste of my time for sure, but sometimes it is not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the research phase of like the first couple of weeks of figuring out a platform, it's a good use of your time. Yeah. Once you're on the platform and you've got content, you're just scrolling the scroll

every day. Yeah. It's not a good use of what I'm hearing you say. Yeah. I mean, TikTok is so weird because it really is very siloed and it seems the people on the on the app talk about how the sort of the different parts of tiktok and the the part of tiktok that i sort of naturally was placed into constantly derides what they call straight tiktok um what is that like it's not uh it's not just about what's your tiktok handle i'm on there as well, so I'm curious.

I'm HankGreen1 because I didn't get Hank Green. I was too late, I guess. Okay, I'm following you right now. Okay. And I think that straight TikTok is, to some extent, about sexual orientation, but it is more about just sort of like normal TikTok. more about it is more about like just sort of like normal tiktok this is where all that like this is where people get you know tens of millions of of views whereas on our side of tiktok you know beans tiktok it's only getting like hundreds of thousands of views and sort of there's a pride

around like oh i made it to beans tikt beans TikTok. TikTok served me bean content. And so I must be weird enough for TikTok to think I need beans on my timeline. It's really weird. It feels like walking into, it's to some extent like walking into another country. Like I open the app

and I'm like, I have arrived. It's true, man. In a whole new place that I've never experienced before. I know. And learning how to create in a different platform based on YouTube, based on an audio platform,

based on Twitter, everything is, you got to create specific for a platform if you really want to take off. Oh yeah. Which is hard because then you have to create 10 different types of video, one for each platform. For me, I almost never actually do it.

Like what I'm doing on tiktok right now is probably like a month of tiktok and then i will stop forever but i'll be like i get it now and that's what's important to me like you just care about getting it you don't care about growing attention on one platform i think because i just took a quick scroll and like a week ago you had five million views on a video and so it seems seems like you're getting it a good way. Yeah. The question though, so I mean, I don't want this to be a whole conversation just about TikTok, but as an example of how I imagine media, I think it's really important to note that when I get 5 million views on a TikTok, that's a deeply different thing than getting 5 million views on a YouTube video. And there are a couple of reasons for that. One is just the monetization. Like you can't monetize on TikTok effectively at all. And like,

this is a thing that I, I think probably may eventually become a problem for them and they need to figure it out. But more importantly than that, when I watch a TikTok, it is a very low impact experience for me. And so I know that that's the same for those people who watched my, those 5 million people who saw that TikTok. Like that was, did not have a big impression on them. It's very hard. I do educational content. It's very hard to imagine doing, you know, educational content that sort of ties together from video to video that actually sort of tells a coherent story where you learn something kind of deep on that platform. I can see, I can totally see doing some like

informational bits and that's being done really well on the platform. I'd love to do some of it myself, but it's almost as if, well, it's not just as if. They have designed the platform for the content to be a low impact experience. So you don't feel bad about going to the next video and you don't feel bad about skipping something. You don't feel bad about not liking something. And you're always sort of like thinking, well, maybe the next one will be better because sometimes it is. And it feels really fun. And like, that was great.

And that's how you spend four hours scrolling on TikTok. And so like TikTok has very intelligently and very explicitly sacrificed creator benefits for user experience. So as a person who makes content on the platform, the only benefits I get are sort of the dopamine of having somebody see my content or my channel growing or whatever.

But as a user, like it is really easy. It's so much easier than YouTube where you've got all this content on the side, the user experience just isn't that great. Like compared with this like seamless flowing experience, I think it does sort of hurt the sort of long-term ability of creators to sort of like build something lasting on the platform. I hear you there. I'm going to be diving more into TikTok myself, but it sounds like you're creating for a month and you're done for a life.

And you're all- We'll see what happens. Give me some monetization tools I might- Right, exactly. Well, I guess the way you monetize is driving attention, gaining attention, driving attention to the next place, and then either selling ads there or selling products, services.

Yeah, and I've already been doing a little book promo there and that's that's a lot of why i'm on tiktok right now it's like well i need to find another book another place to tell people about my book exactly now as a early creator who has created multiple channels lots of success and just a creator in general i look as a creator as more than just content, but businesses, creator of ideas, books, all these different things who knows you're going to die. And as an atheist,

how do you figure out what your purpose is? If you don't know why you're here, who the creator is, I guess, or, or maybe, maybe you do know why you're here and what the creator is. I don't.

Yeah, I basically have never been a believer. And my parents were sort of peripherally Christian. I don't know if they would appreciate me saying that. More culturally Christian than sort of like believers. You grew up in Birmingham, right? I was born in Birmingham and then I grew up in Orlando, Florida. Okay, cool. And my brother who I do almost all of my creative projects with, he's religious. He goes to church. He was in divinity school for a little while. And so like we, but at the same time, like we are able to like not, there's no tension in our

relationship about this because ultimately our values are not different. And our values actually probably come more down to a kind of humanist belief than to this, to like belief or not belief. So for me, you know. What are your core values together that suffering should decrease that community is important that connection is important that people need to be appreciated and they need to appreciate so both sides of that equation gratitude yeah yeah are super important and we like are losing touch with them in society and thoughtfulness like imagining that other people are as complex as we are because obviously they are but it's easy to forget that. And trying to be thoughtful and careful with your actions. That's not always going to happen.

Sure, sure. I made a TikTok today that was mean, and then I didn't post it. Really? Because you weren't thoughtful. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it was really funny. Text it to me separately and I'll be the judge.

So how do you figure out what your purpose is when you know you're going to die and you don't believe in God? I think it's, you know, you look up and you sort of realize how big the universe is. Like you just look up into space and be like, wow, we are this one little thing. And it becomes clear that the thing that matters, and this isn't, like, this is both, I think, objectively true and subjectively true. Like we all know this, the thing that matters is other people and like how they imagine us, how we imagine them, how we help them and how they help us, like where we fit into that equation. And, and I, like, it doesn't seem at all subjective to me, like that, you know, to some people, maybe like you have like sort of a super villain idea that it's just like, well, nothing matters. I like that does not read to me. It does not feel at all true. And maybe this is just about feelings,

but to me, like helping other people, leaving the world better than you found it, you know, trying to solve more problems than you create, like that kind of stuff is... Why does that matter? And I'm not for or against you, but why is that? Why do humans matter if there's no creator or God or source of creation? We decide. Maybe some people think that's too much responsibility to put on, on our shoulders, but we have collectively decided that, you know, we just, we as a society believe that there is a lot of value in a human life and to some extent, infinite value in a human life. We do all kinds of things to help people and to help each other. And especially when it's people that we know personally, like it's, it, it doesn't seem subjective when i think like

i want my wife to be healthy and happy i want my child to be healthy and happy like that doesn't like yeah that's that's sort of an internal thing it's just in me but it's a decision that i that that i would never question and have no interest in questioning right right i'm always fascinated these topics and just creation and i've been you, you know, I've been, I've studied in India meditation and I have a lot of spiritual leaders on. And I know you, you listen to a lot of different people as well. And you follow content that ranges on perspectives to continue to learn and deepen. I think that's important for all of us to do while we're creators and putting out content is to constantly learn and question our beliefs. You know, I've been really frustrated to some extent by a lot of sort of atheist perspective and content in the world, that there's this kind of idea that this is the way forward. And that's not a thing that I feel like it's a, to me, this is like a, if you find your way to believing that people matter and that we need to protect them and decrease suffering and like create stable society

and, you know, pursue justice, I don't really care how you got there. And there's this kind of idea in the atheist movement, and I don't want to get like piled on for this, but that religion is like a source of a lot of the bad in the world. And I, I could definitely see atheism being a source of a lot of bad in the world. Like, you know, I think that any,

any doctrine can be, anything can be used to sort of create in groups and out groups and say that the other, the, the out group is bad. And, and that is almost always a long-term path toward more suffering and less justice.

Yeah, I think the groups that believe in acceptance, believe in inclusion, believe in, you know, okay, you can have your opinion and we can still be friendly and not make people right or wrong. Obviously, certain things are right or wrong based on laws and, you know, hurting human beings in that way. But in terms of just like a belief, if it's not hurting me, then the group, whether it's a religious group,

a non-religious group that supports inclusion, that supports love, being a solution, helping in suffering, I'm all for that. And I think atheists could get a bad rap. People who have religion could get a bad rap because they might say, well, they were so judgmental or they were sexual abusers or this or that and preaching something. And I think that, yeah, people can definitely be hurt by the structures that sort of they're forced into or that they sort of never know that there's an alternative to that.

And I don't want to take away from that for sure. But like people who find joy or, and, and meaning like it can be, it can be astrology. Like there's, there's a lot of like, so I've made like a lot of science YouTube and there's sort of a lot of like ragging on astrology,

which is like, to me, it's like, well, yeah, but I, but like to, if,

if it's, if it's interesting to you, if it's like a way to talk about yourself and discover and connect with other people in your lives. And it brings you meaning and joy. It's a framework. Yeah. Exactly. I feel like it's –

So you're saying the moment you were born that day doesn't dictate your entire life and who you are and all your personality types? Yeah. You'd be shunned here in LA if you said that. I that you'd be shunned here in LA. If you said that, I'm curious about, you know, we have a very similar, I guess, ability and now is our challenge of reading and learning growing up. And when I went to eighth grade, I went to a private boarding school in eighth grade by choice.

Most kids get sent away cause they're bad. I actually grew up in a small town, Delaware, Ohio, and I begged my parents to send me away to this private boarding school in St. Louis, Missouri, because I could see that I wasn't connecting well with the kids in my town and school. I was starting to do things that I wasn't proud of. And I just knew that I wasn't going down a right path. And I wanted to get out of this kind of small town energy vibe. My parents weren't happy and I could sense it at the time they were going to get divorced. And I was just like, get me out of here. My older siblings were off to college. I was felt alone. And so I begged them

for a whole summer to send me away to this school that I learned about. And they wouldn't let me go until you convince someone enough, I guess, you get enough of their time and attention and you can persuade them. They finally allowed me to go to this school. And when I went there, they tested me for my reading and math and everything. And I had a second grade reading level in eighth grade. And for the rest of my schooling there, I always had tutors trying to get me caught up so that I could finish high school and actually get into college. And I almost flunked out of English my senior year in high

school, not having the ability to go to college, barely passed, luckily, to get past the minimum requirements for college. But you struggle as well with reading and learning. Isn't that right? Yeah. I was diagnosed with a learning disability when I was earlier than that, when I was in elementary school and, you know, sort of went off for special tutoring, special classes. I still do not read fast. Thank God for audio books. Thank God for audio stuff. I love to read, but it is, and it is not frustrating until I compare myself to someone else. So for me, if I just, if I just read at my own pace and it's like, this book's going to take me two, two months to finish that, like, I like it the whole time. But then if I like look over my

wife and she's gotten through like 10 books in the same period of time, I get kind of down on myself. And my brother is also obviously like a ravenous reader and consumes a ton, just a ton of books. And there's also, in our own community that we've built online, because a lot of it was sort of early on built on John's career as an author, there's a lot of readers in our community. And so there's a lot of talk about like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to read a hundred books this year, like the 50 book challenge. And it's just like, does not compute to my brain. I could read three books in a year. It's a huge celebration. Yeah. And so it's funny because I'm like the leader of this community, but I can have my feelings kind of hurt by it when they're, when they're talking about, but, but of course that's like, it's just different

abilities. And I, I recognize that I shouldn't feel this way, but I still do sometimes. What do you think is the superpower you gained from not having the reading ability or dyslexia, which I have still today when I read, like even out of my own book, if I'm reading something aloud for a video, I still sometimes have to pause, sometimes say the wrong word that I'm looking at, and then just have to accept myself every moment, not be worried about the judgment of other people.

Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I have to, I read off a teleprompter for a living, one of my jobs. So hard. And that took me, it was, it was, so it's, there's this period of time when you're not good at something where it just like hurts. Yeah. And it's, it's so easy to be motivated when you're succeeding. And I, like that early time and I went home, you know, I started doing this and I knew that it was going to be really hard to do this job. It was my own job. So I could have like done it a different way,

but I knew it was going to be really hard if I couldn't get this down. And I went home and I would just read poems out loud and I would read, I would just like find stuff and I would read it out loud. I'd read it out loud, weird sentences, the weirdest stuff I could find that didn't make sense. And I concentrated on how my eyebrows would move because like if you're, when you're reading, sometimes your face stops moving all the ways it should move. And I like, like, and it was, I wouldn't have done it honestly, if I didn't have all these employees who are going to be sitting in the room with me while I was recording this stuff. If I was going to be doing it by myself, I'd be able to just like take all of the time that it took. But instead I just like pushed through it and, and now I'm very good at it.

Isn't that interesting that the more, you know, for me, I was terrified because of my learning disability of public speaking because in school when the teacher would ask us to read aloud like a paragraph or whatever in class, I don't know if they ever did this with you, we would read aloud in front of the class and I would just tremble and stutter and just literally pee my pants. Just miserable anticipating my turn on how I can get up and go to the bathroom and how i could stay past without them making fun of me whatever right right and when i learned public we know that you can hold your pee for 14 hours exactly it can't be that exactly and um i i remember after i graduated college i was playing actually arena football in Huntsville, Alabama, near where

you grew up. And I got injured. And as I was trying to figure out what I'm going to do the rest of my life, now that my one dream, my one skill and talent is over, what am I going to do? Because I have no other talents. I met someone who was a public speaker who said, the greatest skill you can give yourself is learning public speaking. And there's the ability to be able to communicate your ideas, your thoughts, your words in some type of format that makes sense peacefully. And whether you have a job, you're a business owner, you're going to need to be able to communicate ideas. And that was the greatest gift I gave myself, which was going to Toastmasters every week for a year, humiliating myself and continually showing up until I could speak confidently enough to make sense.

I feel like the fears we have are the things we need to lean into. The disabilities we have are the things that when we go all in on them and master it, now you're really good at this thing, right? Yeah. And I, I mean, I don't, I am not dyslexic. I have what's, what was then called a sensory integration dysfunction. I don't even know what they call it now. And, and so like, there are just pieces of pieces of information that take extra long to sort of like get from my senses to my brain. And not all information is that way. And some information is magnified.

And this was extra the case when I was a child where physical touch could be really hard for me. And that's not a thing for me anymore. But also, like, would definitely have been diagnosed ADHD if I was growing up these days. I have a, you know, obviously, there's a lot of people with ADHD who are really effective. And, you know, I think that there's, there's like a misnomer that just because like, you might not be perfectly suited for the environment in which you are supposed to learn in the society that you are not like capable of doing like all kinds of other things. But I do feel like I have some, I don't know what these, like what my abilities to like synthesize information for other people really effectively.

Like I feel like that comes from me having a hard time getting the information into my head and also being like, like mindful as that process is happening and understanding how my own information synthesis works, how my own knowledge building works. I don't know why I'm really mindful of that stuff. Maybe it's because I've just been trying to teach people for the last 15 years on the internet, but I'm super mindful of how I learn and I think that that helps and maybe it's because I had a learning disability and like I I was sort of like by tutors told like like as I was learning stuff we were sort of like looking at the ways I was learning it that I you know I can sort of like rewind my own process of knowledge building

and then like do it again for other people, but explicitly instead of just like, you know, trying to build it, trying to have them build it themselves. Yeah, that's what I really admire about you. And I think we're similar in a sense that, you know, with your YouTube channel Crash Course, which is like these two minute, three minute clips that just simplify something

complex. That's what I think is really interesting. And you make it visual and you make it fun and make it interesting where it's like, oh, I can break this down. Whereas when I look at a big textbook, that's 500 pages that it says psychology 101, it makes me want to fall asleep in the sense of, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to get through this. So because it's packaged in a challenging format, this must be challenging to understand. And why even try when I can't even read the words on the first page and I have to read it over and over for 20 minutes to just remember the first page. I guess I don't understand psychology. I guess I don't understand sociology. I guess I don't understand history, whatever the topic is. So when you synthesize the information and put it into, oh, here's a dummy's version of videos, I guess, for, I don't know if that's what you guys were going for, but that's what

I looked at. It's like the how-to dummy guide for life and everything. I was like, this is the answer. And that's what I try to do, which is like bridge the gap from complex ideas of guests I have on to people like myself can understand it yeah and it's really effective like what you do is also really effective i i i love that format where it's you know it's like this you know it's not like you don't know stuff it's you don't know that stuff. Yeah. And, but also like the lack of shame about it, where it's just like, of course I don't know this.

Like I'm, I feel like one of the greatest things that we can do is like break down our sort of walls over vulnerability and curiosity, where it's just like, we're not supposed to know everything. I'm not supposed to, anytime any person in this world feels shame about being curious about something, I think is like the worst thing that society can do to people. Because curiosity is the only way we bridge gaps.

It's the only way we build knowledge. It's the only, like to me, it's one of the things that's always there for me when I am failing and do feel down and can't really find the way to, to like continue my, my process of self-development is like, I always find joy in, in discovering new things about the world. I used to be, uh, never raised my hand in class because people would laugh when I would ask dumb questions. right? And it made me stop wanting to be curious in school.

And it's why I really didn't pay attention in school because I was like, everything is going by so fast. Every lesson plan, I'm not getting the concepts. And so I just cheated my way all through high school. I've said this a few times before. I cheated on homework. I cheated on quizzes, on tests. I used my other abilities of vision to see the Scantrons around me and say,

how can I hack my way to getting a D plus and just getting by? Because there was no other way, no matter how many tutors, how much time I studied a night. We had mandatory study hall for two hours. I just wasn't able to with that system. And what I realized is after school is when I said, I don't care what people think of me anymore of the dumb questions I ask. I'm just going to ask them because I'm curious.

And I think for the last 15 years, that has been one of my best skills is asking the dumb questions that I used to get made fun of for asking. People still want to know the answers to because we don't know everything how we're going to memorize every subject in school and be like this. I mean, except for my producer, Ben, who's like a fact wizard, every time I'm like, who's this guest? And he lists off 20 things about each person. I'm like, you're a machine. But for human beings like myself, it's, you know, I got to ask these dumb questions. So yeah, and you know what that reads as as adults it reads as confidence you know it it reads as like i don't know this thing and i want to

and i'm not ashamed that i don't know it and that that doesn't read as you know stupidity it reads as confidence i like that i like that a lot now you you know you've chased a lot of i guess dreams over the years you've done a lot of things uh guess, dreams over the years. You've done a lot of things. We talked about this for a little bit, but I want to dive in a little more. The difference between the power of chasing one dream and going all in on it versus doing lots of things, which seems like you did a lot of things really well, but if you would have went all in on one or two things over the last 15 years, do you think you would have been more successful, more financially well off, more, a bigger audience, more famous? What is the,

what do you think? Yeah, maybe. I don't, I, I convince, I say that to myself all the time, that like, if I could just focus on this one thing, it would be so big and good and powerful and useful and but i but i keep you know getting distracted by that other thing over there that i've also that also requires my attention and i have lots of obligations to to fulfill in in that space as well but also with those two things there's also this third thing that i haven't even started yet that I'm really excited about that I'm going to go for. And then 10 other things that I have ideas around. Yeah. So I try not to think too much about it because, like, I think that that's sort of a negative thought that I'm – it's like a self-sabotage thought.

It's suffering, too. Yeah. Yeah, where it's like, if only I could. If only – but, like, I can't, like I have to be one, I have to be true to who I am, which is like, and, and also I have to use the fuel that I have. And I recognize that I like to start things more than I like to finish them more than I like to sort of grow them. Yeah. And, uh, and I know that, um, but that doesn't mean that I don't like it. So I like it. So I'm going to do it. And I also have to be aware, and I'm better at this now, that I need a plan for if this thing

succeeds, I need a plan for how to do it year two when I have less fuel around that idea. What do you say to the creators? Because I get this all the time. People ask me in our private membership site, well, Lewis, I've got this business idea and I've got these three other things that I'm so passionate and excited about. Which one do I do? What do you say to people that are super creative and want to do a lot of things, but obviously there's only limited time and resources. If you don't have the investment, if you don't have the team and it's you kind of as the solo creator uh solopreneur type what do you say to people like that i say if you have the the the gas in your

tank which is like it's it's usually mostly made out of enthusiasm for the idea and like where that enthusiasm comes from it varies um if you have the gas in your tank yeah light light it up turn the ignition go and and yes focus on on one thing the thing that is most exciting to you and when you are and this is this is very important and i know this about myself when you think i'm gonna work on that other thing for a little bit, know that thought and understand that that thought is self-sabotage. And it's saying to you, I'm not sure that this is actually going to work. So I want to focus on something else, even though this is much more exciting, more interesting, and I've chosen this to be the thing. That thought that you want to go work on something else or you want to focus on something else is coming from a place of, I'm worried this

might not succeed. And so I don't want to try, I don't want to focus on this anymore because now I'm afraid of the potential outcome. If you're afraid that it might not succeed, you either have to determine that it won't and say, this will not succeed. And so I'm going to stop working on it, or I'm going to sort of backburner it, like, maybe sort of like have it in the back of my head and still be working on ideas for it. Or you have to, you have to convince yourself that you're wrong and that it will, and that it does have a good chance of success. And in general, one of my, the early creators of online video is one of the first guys to make video blogs,

a guy named Zay Frank. He ran Buzzfeed video for a long time, but before that he made this show that was not even on YouTube because it was before YouTube. He just uploaded it to his website. He has this idea called brain crack and brain crack is that idea that you're keeping in your head because it looks so beautiful and perfect when it's in there. And the moment you start to take it out, it gets all dingy and dirty and full of the dust of the world and it's not perfect anymore. And so you keep it in there and you're addicted to it. And you just like keep coming back to this perfect idea that's in your head. And you're thinking about the idea instead of doing the idea. And your brain, like what we understand now that we didn't really even understand back then is that you're like,

by thinking about that idea, your brain is getting the satisfaction of kind of actually doing it. We do this with exercise too, where we, if we think about exercise, it actually convinces us we don't need to exercise because we like thought about it. if you're thinking about the idea but not executing it you are actually preventing yourself from executing it you are doing a thing that is slowing you down you just need to get you need to get it out onto the table or into the code or however you're going to execute this thing yeah and and what does it do to us when we think about the book idea for five years, when we think about launching the video channel've written two novels. When I just written one, I feel like I couldn't use that phrase, is that thinking about a book and thinking about a story is nothing compared to writing it. Like writing the story is at least 10x the creative endeavor as sort of like ideating around it. Like typing is where all of the work gets done.

You know, I can, and it's important to like take breaks from the typing and go for a scooter ride or take a shower or something and like work on a problem that you've got with your, you know, with your characters

or with the plot or something. Because book writing is a lot of problem solving but all of the best work gets done when my fingers are on the keyboard and and i don't know what it does to me internally to just think about it but what i what i do know is that those ideas in my head i'm not seeing the real problems with them i'm seeing them as perfect and that it's going to be great and it and like until i start to write, I don't understand the magnitude of the problem I'm trying to solve, the magnitude of the plot I'm trying to create, or how that's actually

going to end up playing itself out. And doing is at least 10 times as effective as thinking. What would you recommend to someone who's got three big ideas in their mind? One's a creative project. One's a business. One's a whatever. And it's like, okay, my friend Rory Baden talks about, he calls it procrastinate on purpose, where he's like, okay, you've got this really great idea.

You want to do this thing? Don't think about it right now unless you're going to do it right now and put it like on the back burner where you're not obsessing about it you're like i like this idea for the future this is a six month out goal to start and then if six months comes okay you know we're still not ready it's another year out goal if you put it on the back burner as opposed to talking about this thing yeah what advice do you have to creators who are thinking about all these ideas and aren't doing it well i mean so the ideas are not all the same um but i i tend to think of things in terms of business models yes which my publisher likes uh because it means that i'm thinking about the marketing of the book yes i'm thinking about the audience for the book while I'm writing the book. I'm thinking about the audience for the book while I'm writing the book. It's a creative

endeavor for me, but part of that creative endeavor is imagining how it will reach people, which is a huge thing when you're making online video. Nobody makes a YouTube video that is successful without, it happens very rarely, without thinking pretty critically about how it's going to reach people. But like build a business model, like take the time. And like if you've got these three ideas, spend time on each of them. And there's some great tools for how to build a business model. There's like a I think it's called Business Model Generation is a book that I've used. And it's sort of like, you know, not every business fits exactly into the sort of like stakeholder, like, like thing that they've created. But like, sometimes you just don't fill in every box on the sheet. But even if it is a creative project, I think that it, you know, I think it's, it's worthwhile to sort of like put it into a framework, write those three ideas down and see which one has the most problems and discard that one for now. Yeah. See which one is the most exciting

and that you're most enthusiastic about. Because like, I really think that the creativity requires a lot of fuel and people's fuels come from very different places. But I think it's really powerful to identify what thing is going to drive you the most because you need drive, especially if you're like working a full-time job and trying to do this thing and trying to take care of your family and

trying to maintain relationships. Like you need, you need drive. You do and your health and everything. I mean, and your, so your book is coming out very soon. It's called a beautifully foolish endeavor, appreciative of people who teach lessons in a story like the alchemist is my favorite book one because it's short and it's easy to read um but it tells life lessons in a cool story yeah should we be thinking about influence uh should we be thinking we need to become famous as a personal brands and build influence to get attention or, or not build a personal brand. Isn't personal branding and a business brand mixing a lot. Now you kind of need a base now with the company to make,

to connect to an idea. You can't just have a logo of a brand with no face anymore. Everyone's an influencer. Like I'm asking a bunch in one question, but what's your thoughts? What's your thoughts on what we should be thinking about as individuals in terms of building a personal brand and businesses? Yeah. I mean, I think, so one of the things about fame is that the, one of the reasons why it's so valuable is that it is inherently scarce because of the inherent scarcity of attention.

And so it's, you know, there are ways, and like this is something that I think a lot about. I think that when we are like the first, our first sort of exposure to, you know, people who have a lot of attention being paid to them, the tendency is to think this isn't always, but most people think that looks really desirable and it's not something that everybody can have. And so there's that scarcity. It's just like gold where it's like, there's not very much of it. So you want it just by its inherent scarcity. There's also the element of influence. There's also like,

you know, the knowledge that there might be, you know, money and power and, you know, whoever you're attracted to also might be interested in that. And so, like, there's a lot of, a huge amount of value there. But we also tend to focus on the ways that it happens that we are paying attention to, which is the people who are most famous. And so that's sports stars and it's musicians and it's actors and politicians. Yeah, exactly. But what I've seen as I've gotten older is that, you know, I live in Missoula, Montana, not a big town, not a lot of famous people here. I have the most Twitter followers of anyone in Montana, which is, you know, I would be like 8,000 from the list if I lived in LA.

I have this, and it's one of the reasons why I live in Montana, is because I get to like watch people find value in these really wonderful ways that are not about having hundreds of thousands of people pay attention to you. I know I have a lot of friends who are involved in community theater and, you know, we have a great community theater here and

they make amazing shows and they put them on for audiences of a hundred or 200 people and they do that for a couple of weeks and then the show ends. And it's extremely valuable. You know, it's such a wonderful experience to be in the audience. It's also a wonderful experience to be in the show. And I also have that experience with like friends who work in organic agriculture and like they are really well respected in the organic seed movement. And like, I don't, I wouldn't know that the organic seed movement exists if I didn't have my friend who works in that, that world. And wrote the PDF of the month for the community. Yeah. She's like super influential and important in that space.

And, you know, we, and like she gains a lot of value from it, both because she's important and influential in that space and also because she's doing really important and good work. So do we need to build reputation? Yeah. Do we, like, are we now in a world where personal reputation really kind of is going to

start to and already is superseding brand reputation yeah and uh and and i mean even with k i mean with everyone being canceled and cancel culture it's like it's even more important and it seems like it almost doesn't matter how much good you do if you say one thing wrong or do one thing against the mob your whole reputation is canceled and it doesn't matter if you say one thing wrong or do one thing against the mob, your whole reputation is canceled. And it doesn't matter if you donated a hundred million dollars and won five Superbowls or whatever it is. It's like, you have to be. And I think a lot of times it's like legitimate misunderstanding. I think sometimes it's like, sometimes it's,

it's like people get a little bit too in their heads about how, how great they are. And so they don't think they can make a mistake. I like to be very aware of the fact that I can make mistakes, very ready to talk to other people about when they think I've done something wrong. But one of the mechanisms of influence is that like, it's, you know, one of the ways that you can gain influence is by finding a problem and calling attention to it. And if you think you found a problem with someone and you're like, this person, you know, has said some really hurtful things that I think does society a lot of harm and sort of build a narrative

around that, like to some extent, this is another way of influence transfer and it can happen really fast. It's like you can be the one to call out one person have no following but then get views on your video and then all of a sudden have perspective and influence yeah and and sometimes i've i've seen that happen in both ways where it's like legitimate like we're legitimately finding something that like oh this person is bad and then i've seen it happen in ways where like they've taken things out of context really intentionally and made a video that has a really clickbaity title and it's getting tons of views. And I'm just like, oh my God, now I have to like weigh in on this and be like, no, this

person is good. And then everybody's going to be mad at me. I know, right? I mean, I love the quote from Jim Carrey. I just pulled it up. I hope everyone could get rich and famous and we'll have everything they ever dreamed of. So they will know that it's

not the answer where yeah i'm hearing a character in my book who says who says uh who says that uh one of the characters helps make the other character really rich and says um i didn't just make you rich and famous so that you would know that uh so that you would know that that that won't make you happy but But that was a nice benefit. It was a good side effect. Because now you know that it actually isn't that great. Right. But the key, what I'm hearing you say is we should all be trying to figure out creative ways to gain attention, to get our work out there. And I think to build reputation. Yeah, to build reputation. And that doesn't have to be on the internet. You know, like that's part of that is in our lives.

We should have a reputation in our families for fulfilling obligations, for caring for each other, for, you know, helping out when times are hard. We should have a reputation in our communities as simple as like that guy is really nice to the barista at the coffee shop. Like we should build good reputation in ways that we can. And I think that that's one of the really strong mechanisms that actually

holds society together. So, but then like outside of that, as it gets bigger, as you start having, you know, more following and as fame has fractured, it used to be that like,

there are way more famous people now than there used to be. It's just that the number of people and the level of attention that they have from Bing Crosby days, where 50% of America listened to one radio show, that has fractured. And there's been a lot of that and it continues. And I think that Twitter and TikTok are really effective ways of seeing how that fracturing has happened. But I think that it isn't about becoming LeBron James. You know, I think that every time you ask the question, how do I build reputation? How do I build attention? You also need to be asking, why am I doing that? What is the purpose? What is the

thing that I'm going to do with this asset when I have it, while I have it, how to use that? The thing that influencers do with almost all of their influence is build their own influence. And that's sort of like ignored, but like, that's what mostly we do. But like, what are you going to do with that once you have it? Are you going to shift attention towards doing good in the world, towards solving problems, towards helpful solutions? Yeah. Yeah. And no, I don't't i don't know if this is like uh if this is universal but for me anyway that actually feels much better than having the attention like doing something useful with it well i mean the science of happiness is all about when you

do for someone else is when you're some some of the most happiest people are because they do for someone else whether it's their family member, whether it's giving time, whether it's a kind gesture, whether it's money, whatever it may be, it's the act of gratitude. It's the act of doing for other people. That's when we're the happiest. I have a friend who's PBS. She's a PBS show that's launching today as we record this. So not today as it's coming out and um and i met her when she was in college and she was just like so smart and interesting and funny that we've worked together on some projects and i mentored her some and like now she's got a pbs show that's great

it's i'm so much more happy that emily has a pbs show than i would be if i got one. Sure. And like, I would be extremely happy, but like there's something much more pure about that happiness that it's about like. Seeing others succeed that you've helped and you've mentored. And I just know that she's like such a great person and she deserves every bit of it that I, like that just feels really good.

It feels way, way better than any, like almost anything else I've ever done. Oh, that's cool, man. That means you got a good heart. That means you got a good mission. Well, and you're, but you're right that like the research shows that this is true. It's not just like good people. It's like people are happier when they help others than when they help themselves. That's it, man. So I, you know, I've been saying this a more a lot lately is that, cause everyone talks about, you know, I ask about greatness and everyone asks me about greatness.

And I've been saying a lot more lately that success is for ourselves and greatness is for others. You know, when you achieve greatness is when you go beyond yourself, when your own desires, your own dreams for me, for what I want,

what I'm not getting, what I want to accomplish towards. Okay, yeah, I want to accomplish certain things and be of service to other people through that act, through that creative endeavor, through, yeah, I want to accomplish certain things and be of service to other people through that act, through that creative endeavor, through that business, through that artistic expression, through that song, whatever it may be. And so I think that intention is what makes people great when they create, make, live, be in a place of service. I agree with you. And I think it can be, it can be hard to get to that space because our minds often tell us that the main thing is like fulfilling that, that hit.

I was actually talking to Ben, your producer a little bit before this, and he had a great point that, you know, I was sort of making the case that a lot of people are trying to build influence to, to make money and to, and to build more influence and just have more of it. And he was like, yeah, that's true. But also I think you need to recognize that people are doing it just because like, it feels good. They're not even thinking about it. It just feels, and he's absolutely right. The dopamine hit. Yeah. Like that short-term feel good that like, it's not going to last at all. It's like drinking a Coke, you know, it's just like, that feels good. I like that. Liketerm feel good that like it's not going to last at all it's like drinking a coke you know it's just like that feels good i like that like i won't i will in no way feel better five minutes from now because i had a coke but i enjoyed it that instant that it happened yeah

how do we get away from uh you know building influence to feel good in the moment towards building influence to impact others long-term? I think it comes with mindfulness. It comes with thoughtfulness, actually thinking about it, noticing why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling and sort of thinking, okay, I have these powers, I have these privileges, I have these things that not everyone has access to. And it's not about whether I deserve that because I think that that's a totally wrong frame. I don't know that anyone, it's very hard to sort of imagine deserving

being a sensical topic when there are billions of people who don't have clean water to drink. So it's not about deserving. It's about what you do with the things, the gifts that you've been given who don't have clean water to drink. So it's not about deserving. It's about what you do with the things, the gifts that you've been given, the power that you have.

Yeah. I love this, man. I'm really glad we got connected here. And I hope when you can travel to LA, we can hang more. I've got a couple of questions for you. And I want to make sure people get your book because i think it's going to be i think it's going to be really powerful for people to learn about these things in a story

format and i know your last book was a number one new york time bestseller so i can only imagine how much better you are this is the this is the sequel so if you want to start with the first one it's extra it's cheap because it's in paperback it's called a an absolutely remarkable thing uh so you can start there if you want there you want and this is the the sequel a beautiful yeah a beautifully foolish endeavor which is all about attention and influence and how to get it and why we need it and the evils of it and all these things yeah yeah and also the the platforms that consolidated and how much dang power they have now right and the privacy issues and all that stuff which which I'm sure you talk about in the story. You're at HankGreen.com, HankGreen on Twitter, HankGreen on Insta, Facebook.

HankGreen 1 on TikTok. HankGreen 1. You know what I got earlier? I'm at Lewis Howes everywhere except for TikTok. I got at Lewis. Oh, nice. I probably should have kept the branding all the way through but it just looks cleaner that i want to get on insta as

well that i'm like you know so anyways um you've got a lot of cool stuff i loved your video in the past i think it was four or five years ago about honey badgers remember that one so uh you've got some great stuff that people can check out. And if they just go to Hank green.com, they can see it all. And the book will be there to get your books, all that stuff. Thanks. I want to ask you a couple of final questions. This one's called the three truths. So I'd like for you to imagine for a moment, a hypothetical question, even though you don't believe in the, the afterlife or, or, or those things. Imagine this is your last day on earth many, many years from now, and you've created every dream you could ever want to make.

You've written a thousand books. You've changed millions of lives. You've done the ideas. It's all happened. The family's great, all that stuff. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your writing, your work, your videos with you to the next place, wherever that may be for you. So no one has access to your content, businesses, apps anymore. But you get to leave behind a piece of paper where you get to write

down three things you know to be true from all your experiences, all your lessons that you've learned that you would want to share with the world. What would you say are your three big lessons or three truths you'd share with us? I think, yeah, it's, it's interesting. I think we hit all of them in this talk. I think number one, you've got to let yourself be excited about things. You've got to care about stuff and you know, yeah, I guess that's the,

that's the simple version that the vulnerability that comes along with that is strength not weak weakness um helping others succeed feels better than success and i guess just stay curious because i think that's the thing that we're all born with and i think sometimes we lose it and it's not something that like you should become curious you should hold on to it oh i like that one stay curious i feel like that's all i do is just ask questions yeah i'm a curious mind yeah uh i want to acknowledge you hank for for your curiosity throughout the years of diving into creative endeavors and putting that curiosity out through your your body of work your your artistic endeavors, through events to businesses,

to videos, to everything you've been doing. You've got an incredible gift of taking ideas and creativity and alchemizing it and bringing it to the world. So I acknowledge you for the consistent effort of showing up and putting things out there, which I know how challenging it is, but it's been extremely helpful for the world and it's been a big service. So I acknowledge you for that. Thank you. And I'm just grateful for our time today. And my final question is what's your definition of greatness? This is what I've said before, but solving more problems than you create. Yeah. I love it. Hank, thank you, man, for being here. I appreciate you very much.

Yeah. Thank you. My friend, thank you so much for taking the time to listen today to this episode. Make sure to share this with someone who you think will find it valuable. You have the ability and the power to change someone's life today just by sharing this message. Then make sure to go follow Hank on all of his platforms and check out his new book, A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor.

Again, please leave us a review. A five-star review is always welcome. And let us know what you thought about this episode. And if you want inspirational messages from me every single week, then text me right now. That's right. You can text me the word podcast to 614-350-3960.

Make sure to check out the podcast description right below this on your Apple podcast or Spotify for links to other impactful podcast episodes related to this one. And I want to close with a quote from Barack Obama. When we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. I'm so grateful for you. I love you. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.