The School of Greatness - BILLIONAIRE Reveals Key Habits of THE RICH! Do This NOW to Make Money & Build Wealth | Michael Rubin

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Today, we have an extraordinary guest who embodies resilience, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of excellence. Michael Rubin, the CEO of Fanatics and a serial entrepreneur, joins us to share his incredible journey from academic struggles to building a multi-billion dollar empire.In this episode, Michael reveals how he turned early failures into stepping stones for success, the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, and his unwavering commitment to making a positive impact through his philanthropic efforts. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned business leader, or someone looking to be inspired, Michael’s story and insights are sure to motivate and empower you.In this episode you will learnHow Michael Rubin turned early academic struggles into a successful business career.The importance of resilience and learning from failures in entrepreneurship.Strategies for building and leading successful teams.Insights into living a life of service instead of scarcity and competition.The significance of staying humble and continuously striving for excellence.For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1624For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Patrick Bet David – https://link.chtbl.com/1547-podChris Anderson – https://link.chtbl.com/1584-podJohn Maxwell – https://link.chtbl.com/1501-pod

So here's the question. When I was 16 years old and I ran out of money and the sheriff showed up at my house every day with a new lawsuit and then I turned that near bankrupt experience into being the largest closeout company in the world. Was that luck? Or was that hard work and just unrelenting personality? Global sports company Fanatics. You heard of it? Yeah, yeah. Founder and CEO. Fanatics CEO Michael Rubin. Very, very, very successful business guy. We got a special guest in the building. Michael Rubin. One and only Michael Rubin. Very, very, very successful business guy. We got a special guest in the building. Michael Rubin. One and only Michael Rubin. Come on.

What are the three things you think about of launching into a space and how to really take over market share? Great question. I'm going to let you into my brain right now. This is like something like I've definitely never talked about. It's fascinating to even examine it myself. I got lots of companies trying to kill me. So like that's my normal day. You're about to lose it all. I was about even examine it myself. I've got lots of companies trying to kill me. So, like, that's my normal day. You were about to lose it all.

I was about to lose it all. Most importantly, and this is the most important thing, every failure leads to your next success. How do you make better luck? I think be a better human. That's the truth. Like, be a good human, you'll create your luck. Hard work and be a good human.

What would you say are the habits of the millionaires, billionaires, or successful that you know who are actually healthy over the ones that are empty inside? I'll give you one example that's jumping to the top of my mind for me, which I really, I don't think I've ever talked about before, but it's super interesting, is... Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have the inspiring Michael Rubin in the house. Good to see you, sir. Hey, good to be here. The legendary fanatics parties

that I've been to, Super Bowl parties, have been an amazing experience. I was just telling you before, but everything that I feel like you do from the people I know who know you and what I've seen from the outside looking in and being at some of your events,

you do it at a world-class experience with world-class people. So I just want to acknowledge you, first and foremost, for having a vision of excellence and for constantly striving to live up to that standard in everything you do. I'm sure you'll say, well, we've got a lot of work to do and we're not there in all these different areas. So you know me well already. I already know. We haven't done shit yet. We've got a lot of work to do and we're just getting started.

But look, we always want to put our best foot forward in everything we do. And we never think we do anything well enough, and we always want to keep figuring out how to do it better. Absolutely. Well, it's inspiring to watch. Thank you. And congrats and everything. One of the things that I've seen you talk about is that you were really bad in school.

You know, you didn't read that well, just like me. I don't read that well today. I still don't either. I had a 740 on my SATs. I'm not sure if that was worse than yours. Wow. I finally't read that well today. I still don't either. I had a 740 on my SATs. I'm not sure if that was the worst than yours. Wow. I finally met somebody who did worse. Let's go. I got a 780. I don't know if that's something to celebrate, but I couldn't get into college because my SAT was so low. So I remember feeling very insecure around my abilities, my lack of ability from school, and it affected my self-worth. And

I wanted to ask you this. You dropped out of college at one point, struggled in high school, probably all the way through school. Did you ever feel a lack of confidence, an insecurity, or a lack of self-worth because of school? Or did you always have confidence to go after what you wanted in business? Honestly, not really. You know, for me, everything you said was right. I consider myself to be an awful student. I barely graduated high school. I went to college for one semester.

I actually posted my, somehow they went back and found my Villanova report card. I had a 1.87 in the one semester that I went to school. report card. I had a 1.87 in the one semester that I went to school. I couldn't then and still don't really read. I haven't read a full book since ninth grade. I haven't really read part of a book since ninth grade. And so like we all learn different ways. And for me, the one thing I was good at was business and I always loved it and enjoyed it. So always you know kind of put everything i had into that and so being a student failing in school or college didn't actually bother me because i always just had this huge desire to just give it everything i had in business and even having failures and that didn't bother me because i just felt like whatever you get back up and do it again and you were an

athlete what happened when you know when something goes wrong you just work up and do it again. And you were an athlete. What happened when you, you know, when something goes wrong, you just work harder. And I just felt like I could always outwork out hustle, you know, everybody else. And so like a lot of people, you know, are taking like failures never bothered me. I've dealt with it my whole life in different things. And I just like, I'm always like, I can, whatever I can overcome it. I can keep pushing through it. And that's just my personality. But did you ever tie then your self-worth to your business success or your net worth as it went up? Or sometimes if it went down or you had failures, did you ever tie it to that? Again, this sounds weird.

Not really. Like I've been through, even in somewhat recent times, I mean, I almost got margined out, which means like pushed out of my company in 2009 during the financial crisis. And I was like near business death. And I thought it was fun. I'm like, this is an adventure, man. Like, I like this. Like, I like the action. And it just didn't bother me. Like, I liked more playing the game. And that was what I really, you know, got me that was what i really you know got me excited was figuring out you know how to try to get more wins than losses how to try to put my best foot forward um you know i don't know i'm not like i'm a pretty thick-skinned person i've always been that

way and maybe it's like you know different people grow up with different different ways like my parents always beat on me to do better like it was it was like, you know, they'd be like, and when I mean beat on me, like, hey, you can do better, not physically beat on me. I had two parents that were amazing, you know, amazing parents. Both were, you know, one was a veterinarian, one was a psychiatrist, but they'd always say, like, you know, nothing was ever good enough.

They were always pushing me. And so, like, I had that attitude of, like, it didn't bother me to, you know, be, you know, picked on, you know, have things go wrong i had every learning impediment like i had a speech you know tutor and this tutor and that like because i had all these things like i was like i had a lot of learning disabilities you know like before people knew what add was i had the worst add is a dyslexia 10 year old and you know i'm very dyslexic today and so but all this stuff for me is just like, I don't know.

I just had fun, like, playing the game. So when you failed, did you ever, like, get down on yourself? Or did you look at it as an opportunity of what you could do better next time? So always what you can do better next time. I think anytime I've had, like, a really bad moment, I just say tomorrow's a fresh day. So, like, I could have a, like, if I just like, if everything went wrong for me in a day or like something really happened in business or something I really didn't like, I'd always be like, all right, tomorrow's a new day. So it might feel bad in that night. But then I, and by the way,

things always, if you get, I don't sleep that much, but even like sleeping five hours, like it's a new day. You feel like it's, things feel like less, you know, intense. You just go deal with the issue the next day. So. What was the biggest loss you had in business, would you say? I've had so many. Really? Yeah.

I mean, it started, my first big loss in business was at 16. That was my first real loss. And I grew up as a, you remember, I was an entrepreneur before being an entrepreneur was cool, before it was normal, before technology. I mean, so I started with a, you know. Ski shop, right? Yeah. People know this story.

I started with a ski shop. And by the time I was 16, I had the ski shop. So I started with a little ski tuning shop in my parents' basement. Like, you know, first did a couple thousand dollars when I was 12 ski shop. So I started with a little ski tuning shop in my parents' basement. Like, you know, first with a couple thousand dollars when I was 12 in business. Then when I was 13, I did like $25,000 in business by borrowing inventory from other ski shops on consignment and paying them for it as I sold it.

But I opened my first ski shop when I was 14. That's crazy. And I killed it the first year at 14. Killed it the second year at 15. Then I got cocky at 16. And the way the story goes is it didn't snow that year. And when the season was over, I had $80,000 in inventory and $200,000 in bills. And I literally got sued that off-ski season, that spring, probably a hundred times. The sheriff used to come. I've told the story a few times,, probably a hundred times. The sheriff used to come,

I've told this story a few times, but it's actually amazing. Like the sheriff used to come to my house every Monday through Friday. She'd be there with lawsuits every month. Like I would, before school, hey, Michael, here are your lawsuits for the day. Okay, from the hundreds of vendors

that I owed money to. And like, I thought my world was over. And like, I was like, I completely failed. And like, I was a disaster. And I ended up hiring a bankruptcy lawyer who actually told me you couldn't, you had to be 18 to incur debt legally. I didn't know that. Um, I ended up settling my debts for $38,000. It was the only time, you know, I ever went to my parents for money. And by the way, that was a ton of money to my parents. Barring $38,000 was like, you know, a huge amount of

money. And they said one condition, you go to college. But you have to be a normal kid afterward. You tried. I did try. Was it one semester or one year? Well, first, what happened was, good fortune. So I settled my debts for $38,000. And literally weeks later, another ski shop, because everyone was going bankrupt because it didn't snow that previous season.

They went bankrupt. They had $200,000 inventory, got auctioned for $13,000. So I went, I bought that inventory at a, at a, like a government auction for $13,000. I went back to my dad. I said, Hey, great news. I'm going to be able to pay you back the $38,000 more quickly, but I need to borrow another $13,000. He looked at me. He's like, like, are you out of your mind? You want to borrow another? I'm like, no. Like, we, you know, like, you know, your mom and I lent you $38,000, which is a huge amount of money, so you would agree to go to college and, like, get out of this business thing that doesn't make sense. I said, okay, but I'm going to probably go to prison because, like, I made a commitment

to, like, a government auction of $13,000. So I went door to door to my neighbors. Come on. They started knocking. Hey, got a great opportunity for you. of $13,000. So I went door to door to my neighbors. Come on. Knock and, hey, got a great opportunity for you. I need to borrow $13,000 but I'll be able to borrow, you know,

pay you back with a lot of interest. Someone lent me the money at $1,000 a week interest, which I thought was a great deal. Okay? Now I'm like, this is amazing.

So what I do, I got the yellow pages and literally went to ski shops and started calling every ski shop and said, hey, I've got, you know,

these Dolemite boots, these Dynastar skis, these Rossignol skis. And I was able to sell $17,000 of equipment within like three or four weeks, pay back all the money. I had like 80, 90% of the inventory left. Wow. And that literally, three years later, I was the biggest buyer and seller of closeout skis and footwear doing $100 million a year in business and making $10 million. So my point is, near-death experience, almost going bankrupt at 16, to a 21,

number one in the world of buying and selling athletic footwear and closeouts and skis in the world, all from that near, you know, disastrous failure. So it didn't, you know,

it didn't bother me. Like, I kind of like, it was a fun ride. And when I was getting sued every time, it was just like, okay, like, great. If I go bankrupt, like maybe I'm an idiot. I don't know. I'll figure it out. And so none of that bothered me. It's almost like if you didn't have that failure, you wouldn't have had the, I guess the opportunity, you wouldn't have seen the opportunity of like, oh, I can go and buy these things at discount and then sell them for

more in the future and build a business that way. 100%. And that's the way life is. And that's why I really believe every failure leads to your next success. And so we have things that don't work out every day. And yesterday I was sitting in a Fanatics meeting going through our quarterly review in our commerce business. And the guy who took over our international business, who's just doing a great job, went through three things he tested that all didn't work. He was talking about, great, this didn't work, this didn't work, this didn't work. And here's what I'm doing about it. Because that's part of how you grow in business. So a lot of people are scared to take risks and scared to fail.

And then if you do that, then you never go anywhere. Right. Wow. But someone might be listening or watching and thinking, well, that's easy to do as a teenager to take these risks because you got your parents to support you. You're living at home. You know, they're going to take care of you if you fall. But what about a big risk when you had a lot to lose? What was the biggest failure in your 30s or 40s?

So I'll give you the best story I think of off the top of my head. So in 2009, during the financial crisis, I never, you know, my company was a public company called GSI Commerce. And I was not paid, you know, I was paid a pretty small amount of money on a relative basis to run the company. What I actually did was I borrowed money against my public company stock, and then I invested in a bunch of different investments. And that was great from 99 until 2008, till the financial crisis. When the financial crisis happened and our stock, my stock went from being worth 250 million personally to being worth 25 million over a few months. And then the banks went from lending 50% to lending 15%. So I went from being able to borrow 125 million dollars to being able

able to borrow you know whatever 3.7 million dollars i basically it's it's called almost getting margined out of your company yes okay wow so i i remember so i i at one point the most money i owed dom it was actually you know one of the big banks i don't want to name them to not embarrass anybody but you know i i owed 50 million dollars a peak and it worked great for eight years and now they keep you know saying hey you got to pay, hey, you got to pay the loan down. You got to pay the loan down because the stock's going down and the rate, the advancement is going down. And I got the loan down to about $3 million, fighting with everything. I couldn't get it.

I was done. I was calling all my friends, hey, can I borrow a million here? Because I was running a big business. In 2009, no one was lending anybody money. So it was like I was getting notes from everybody. So I sold enough investments to get the loan from 50 million down to 3 million. 3 million, I'm done. No one else will give me money. You had no more cash. Nothing. By the way, my net worth wasn't at this point maybe at a $10 million net worth. Again, this is only 15 years ago. Wow. And my stock that was worth $250 was now only worth $25 million.

I couldn't sell it. And so the bank was basically going to sell my stock and basically throw me out of my company. Push me out of my company. There was one person who I seeded in their hedge fund and I invested and I had like maybe $4 or $5 million with them.

I called them 50 times to get the money back. And they wouldn't give, they said, if I give the money back to you, I have to give it to other investors. Right. And on the 50th try, he called and said like, hey man, I need this money back. Like I'm going to get thrown out of my company.

On the 50th try, he said, you're so annoying. I'm going to give you the money back. Don't call me ever again. Wow. And I got the money back, paid the bank off. They would have started selling the stock the next day. Come on. I sold the company 18 months later for $2.4 billion to eBay. Okay?

So how much was the company worth at the time? Because your stock was $250. It was down to, the company was, it was down to $250 million. We sold it 18 months later for $2.4 billion. Wow. To eBay. And you were about to lose it all. I was about to lose it all. And you wouldn't have me here today if that happened, by the way. Wow. Because I wouldn't have then sold my company to eBay, had that be a great transaction, buy back Fanatics, turn it into what it is today,

which was just in the beginning phases. But my point is, I was just unrelenting. I just quit. Wow. And the funniest thing about the whole thing, it was almost a little bit psychopathic. Wow. And the funniest thing about the whole thing, it was almost a little bit like psychopathic. Like, I was never, during the whole period of time, I was calm as a cucumber. Like, I remember my now ex-wife saying to me, like, Michael, are we going to be okay? Like, you know, like, had I got thrown out of my company, I don't know. I couldn't afford the house I was living in.

I couldn't, like, you know. I'm like, we'll be fine. Don't worry about it. She's like, how are you sleeping? I'm like, well. You know, I sleep my five hours. I'm good. My four or five hours. I'm good. What do you think? I mean, most people would be stressed out, anxious and worried, you know, if they lose a little bit, let alone losing almost all of it. What do you think were the three skills that you learned growing up, whether it be from your parents or sports or whatever it was, what were those three skills that supported you through the growth phases, through the losses,

through the high stakes, last minute, lose it all, all of that, what were those three skills? I just want to tell you one thing I'm thinking about, then you're going to have to ask me that again because I'm ADD. Go ahead. You know, I have a question that I love asking people and the answer is like 50-50, okay?

And I, you know, look, when you're in business a while, you meet a lot of really successful people. And I always ask people who really made it big, you know, made tens of billions of dollars, if you could be 10 years younger in the same health and give up everything you had, 100% of your money,

would you? And the answer I get is like 50-50. Really? My answer is 100% yes. I would give everything up I have, okay, to just be 10 years younger because I feel like I could do it again tomorrow morning. Wow.

Okay? Now, a lot of people look at me like I'm, like there's a screw loose in my head. They're like, how would you possibly give up everything you have to be 10 years younger? For me, I'm like, okay, I'm 51. If I can go from 51 to 41, I'm in. Take it all.

Zero hesitation. Wow. So that goes to my mindset of like, you know, I can always figure out how to do it. And that's just like, you know, that's a, I don't know. While I'm humble, I'm confident from that perspective. That's interesting. Speaking of that question, I'm 41. If you could go back to 41 right'm 41 um if you could go back to

41 right now or if you could give advice to your 41 year old self with all the wisdom experience you have now what advice would you give him i give advice to my 41 year old self where were you at 41 yeah um i was really just beginning and building fanatics i say, I think I've always known you need to get the best people in the world around you to really, like I've always known that, but I didn't always practice

as hard as I do today. So it's the unrelenting skill of getting the best people in the world to work with and then making sure they work really well together because you can get a ton of really smart people,

but then they don't work well together. And you play football, right? It's a little better than football, but like go to a basketball people, but then they don't work well together. You play football, right? It's a little better than football, but go to a basketball court. Get three superstars to work together. Not always easy. That's tricky. Okay? And so, to me, I think it would be like, don't just say you're going to get the best people in the world.

Make sure you get the best people in the world and get them to work together. The other thing, if I can give myself advice, in a consumer business, everything starts with the consumer, or in our case, the fan. We've always thought about the fan, but I think I wasn't. The same way you said certain things, but you weren't unrelenting enough. To be unrelenting, everything we need to do needs to make the experience better for the fan. And we've delivered on that sometimes and not delivered on that other times. And I think being unrelenting and delivering that, which is something now that I have so much excitement about it. I feel like every day is a new day to just be better at what we do. And there's so many things we can do better. Wow. Okay. So those two things. How did you,

over the last 10 years, how did you learn to enroll, attract, convince the greatest people to come work with you? And how did you get them to separate their egos and work together? Yeah. Well, first, I think when you're going to get great people to work together, you need to make sure you don't have, like, you need to make sure you get people that don't have egos that are too big. Because if people have, you know, Tom Brady always says to me, like, you know, I've heard him say this so many times, like, there's only so many people you can pass the ball to, okay?

And people need to know their role, okay? So to me, you need to get people who want to do what they do and you need to get people who want to work well together. And some people you can find are amazing athletes or amazing business people, but maybe they're not going to be a great fit to us. That to me is about backdoor reference checking because I'm always, you know, if I meet someone I want to hire, I've never, I've never asked somebody for a reference once in my life. Why? Because the world's small. I'm always, if I'm interested in somebody,

I'm going to find five people that know them, not one. I'm going to ask five people or 10 people, and I'm going to figure out what I need to know about them and figure out like, it's only what you, when you meet someone that's like 50% of it is you know kind of um you know what you see in that interview the more important 50% is what you're doing back to a reference interesting how do you I mean how do you find the right people first off how do you even recruit them or know where they are and then what of conversation do you have when you first meet with them where you want to get them to buy into your vision and be a part of your team or your company? What do you say to them? What's the vision conversation?

Yeah. So to start with, I'd say we have a, especially like a big executive, a big, you know, leader. So I I'd say first the world is really small. And so we're always able, like whenever we've got a key role, we'll do two things. One, we'll generally run a search with an outside search firm or internal search team. But then we'll also do a lot of work on that search ourself. Because to me, if you just hire a search firm, you just do it internally without working it hard, you're going to get a less good result. To me, if you work out of it,

okay, and then you also have great professionals doing it, you merge those two together, you're going to get a better result. That's smart. Generally for me, look, at this point, I think it's us more trying to figure out quickly whether someone's interesting to us. And then if we think they're interesting to us, then we'll go to start selling them. So generally, if you're in a, if I'm trying to get to know somebody, you generally see, I ask you a thousand questions first. Then if I'm interested,

I'll start selling you. Got it. And if anyone's listening to this and they see me, you know, in an interview, they'd say, that's what you'll see. I go from like asking a lot of questions if I'm not interested.

If you want to quickly get myself out, you know, extract myself from that meeting. If I am interested, then, you know, you'll hear me, you know, getting you excited about the opportunity. That's cool. That's really cool. The thing that I feel like a lot of people know about you, at least from the outside looking in,

is that you are one of the most connected people in the world to other successful business leaders and billionaires, you know, the world's greatest athletes, artists, musicians, and cultural icons. They see this from your Instagram and videos that you have out there online. And if people have been to your parties, they see that as well. You know, I went to your party a couple of times to just who's who of everyone is there. I'm curious. A lot of people desire to have fame, success, and money, but not everyone knows how to be happy and have healthy relationships and have a healthy relationship with themselves while they acquire those things. You've been around all the wealthy, successful, and famous people. What do you wish people knew about fame, success, and money

that you don't think they truly know about? Well, I think, first of all, I'm very lucky to have all the exposure that I have to so many great, different, interesting people. For me, that's how I learn. Right? Because I don't learn from reading because I really don't read.'s how I learn. Right. Cause I don't learn from reading cause I really don't read. Yeah. Okay. Um, I learned from listening and that's what I enjoy the most doing is getting so many people with different backgrounds together and always picking up

different things from people all day long. Okay. And so that's my, if you'd say different people, everyone's got the strengths and weaknesses. That's my strength. That's my superpower is the ability to just like be a sponge to other you know interesting people around me and you know that happens every day of my life that i'm just picking up data points that make me better um you know look last week we i'm sure you saw we we launched um with travis scott and cactus jack um our collab with mitchell ness and and fanatics and like with Mitchell Ness and Fanatics. And like just flying with Trav. And Trav's a good friend of mine.

But flying with Trav from LSU to Texas and then Texas to USC. And just the questions I'm asking and the conversation we have. We're each learning. And he's doing the same thing for me, by the way. We're each learning from each other. And I'm doing that in every interaction, no matter what someone's background. And it could be someone who just started a job at Fanatics. And, you know, and by the way, I learned so much from my teenage daughter about how they, you know, consume information differently than how I consume information.

So I'm always just picking things up from people. But I think so I start from the place of I'm very fortunate to have such great exposure that teaches me what i learned every day i'd say what i would say is some people really struggle with it more than others like look i've had you know you know some of the financial success you know i i think you know i'm you know i'm the least well-known person of you know a lot of people we do we do business with sure um you know some of the biggest athletes artists artists, celebrities in the planet. I think for some people it's really, um, natural and for other people, it's hard to deal with it. You know, for me, I'm just always paying attention to studying and even look in the last few years, I'm probably more well-known,

but for me, it's like, I'm humbled by it. Like, you know, anyone who wants to stop and ask me a question who wants to, like, I'm just like, I know how lucky I am. And so, you know, but I think it is, I think for, you know, to answer the question directly that you asked me, I think for some people it's really hard. It's an adjustment. A lot of times this stuff can happen quick too. I know.

So, look, you saw it. I mean, you know, you played at a really high level from an athletic perspective. Some people can deal with this great and others can't. What do you think it is about? I mean, I know you probably, you don't need a name. I'm not asking you to name names, but I know you know people who are billionaires and super famous that are happy, that are truly happy and grateful human beings. And a lot that aren't. And a lot, probably more, that are stressed out, overwhelmed, bad relationships, constantly living in fight

or flight or competition versus collaboration. What would you say are the habits of the millionaires, billionaires or successful that you know who are actually healthy, which is probably a smaller percentage, over the ones that have it all but are empty inside? So I'll give you one example that's jumping to the top of my mind for me, which I really, I don't think I've ever talked about before, but it's super interesting, is, and all of my good friends know this about me. You know, you could get, a lot of people would say they know this about me.

I want all of my friends to do great and do better than me in any way they can. Cause like, I'm living my dream. Okay. So why would I know what I want to do great around me? A lot of people feel like they're in competition. And it's one thing, like you're playing football, kill your competitor. You're playing basketball, kill your competitor. If I'm in business and there's someone I'm competing against, that's a different story. Okay. But I'm talking about in life, I want my friends to do amazing. I'd say like, I have certain friends who are like hey if you could make x or i could make 50 times i'd rather you make x because like i'm good and i'm happy i'm having a great time and i'm living my dream so i think it's i think it's the healthy people want the best for the others around them one of the

things i see a lot of time is like cultures of like people trying to bring people down i hate that and i'm always i'm always saying this to like my daughter because she's 18 and she's like, you know, she's developing the same way I'm still developing. I'm always like, you want to always be inclusive, you know, bring everyone together and have people want to do great. You know, that's what I say is an interesting observation is a lot of people don't want people to do great around them.

And that's like really weird to me. Do you think that's what makes them, you know, stressed and miserable or unhappy or have broken relationships is because of that? Look, people think, it's just so hard to say. I'm going to get ridiculed for saying this, but people think money fixes things.

It doesn't, okay? You're either going to make the most of your life or you're not. So obviously with money, you have more access to so many things, okay? But, you know, I tell you, I outwork just about anybody. I'm still working 18 hours a day, 350 days a year, and I love it.

And that, for me, is fun. And I enjoy it. I'm learning and growing from it. So it's not like I'm trying to, like, I'm not like, you know, people see, like, oh, they see the white party. And, you know, great. So I do, you know, three fun, you know, I do the white party, the Spanak Super Bowl party, and together the reform alliance, which, you know, when the founders of, we do the, you know, we started last year, the gala. So we do three big events a year. So those are fun moments people see, but my life is about grinding day in and day out. And I like that. That's not every day. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the grindings every day. I mean, three days a year. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Do I do a fun Christmas vacation? And you know, I used to be able to make fun of my friends publicly. Now we have to do it privately because I get rid of Kudo if I make fun of my friends now. What do you think is the energy that drives people? Again, I think a lot of people that want to learn from you or someone that's like you with a massive net worth, big businesses, all these different things. I think a lot of people want to know, how can I do that or my own way of doing that in my life while also being healthy and happy, because I see a lot of people get burned out. celebrities who are young not know how to manage

the success of the fame billionaires go bankrupt, all these are just do things that maybe don't align with the values. So I guess I'm curious about if you think it's possible to be actually healthy and happy, have good relationships with your family and friends, and be uber successful? And if so, what does it take? What are the key habits that your friends who are that do on a consistent basis? Yeah, I think it's 100%.

It's 100% doable, and a lot of people do it but some people you know look the thing with a lot of really successful people is like what makes me also it does make me a little bit different is you know barely having made it out of high school not having gone to college not reading like i'm not an intellectual i'm like you know i'm kind of like a you know you know just like a street smart know, I still feel like a kid even though I'm not. So that's like a lot of really successful people. They're naturally, they're awkward. They're not like, they're just like, they're a little uncomfortable in their own skin.

You know, you've gone out, you've had all the success and you're not sure how to deal with it. Like to be like still like a normal, logical, rational person. I'm still like, you know, you know, if you listen to the conversations I have with my friends, we make fun of each other the same way we did 10 or 20 years ago. And we, you know, I take more from people. I take than I give, although I give a lot of it as well. You know, I think it's just like, look, you know,

look, I see the greatest people in the world do great with hand-handling. I see a lot of people that get, you know, huge success. And, you know, it's really hard for them. I say like, you know, keep an eye on the prize. For the way you're asking the question, it's a really small percentage of people. They're super lucky. Appreciate that. Look, I know it's easier to say that, but people say to me all the time,

anyone who stops me, I always try to be as nice as I could be. And people say, why are you always like that? I'm like, because I'm lucky. If I'm not, I'm a bad person. There's a problem if i'm not like that right that's probably what keeps you fulfilled and happy yeah and like i'm all i'm rooting for everybody too yeah i'm rooting for everyone to do great i think that's a key differentiator because most people that i think are unhappy with success or with what they have at a big level they're competitive in terms of they don't want to see their friends and they think of more, it's win, I have to win and you have to lose versus how can we all

win together? Yeah. Look, I know a fair amount of people who've gone down in business because you just, you meet a lot of people, you know, and a lot of them have handled it great and some haven't, you know, and it just depends who it is. It just depends who that person is. The thing I like to see by the time is someone who can do something, who can do it two or three times. Like, you get one success, it could be luck.

You get two or three successes, that's proven skill. By the way, you win one Super Bowl, you're really good, but, you know, you win a couple, you're really special. That's another level. Yeah. Speaking of Super Bowls, what do you think, you're close with Tom, I'm supposed to be interviewing him next week at an event. What's something about him that makes him so unique that other people, other athletes don't have? He's one of the most unique individuals on planet earth. Look, he's become a really close friend of mine in the last few years. become a really close friend of mine in the last few years. I'll tell you that when you see his determination and grind, you see why he had the success that he had. And, you know, he's very

athletic. He's not the most athletic guy relative to, you know, whoever would be the most skilled or whatever. He did it based on will to win. And I see when you're going to text me after, when you're going to say, like, I gonna say sure like i fully get this guy is a beast and he's gonna win whatever he puts his mind to and so when i look at him having won seven super balls i'm like yeah i would expect that like he's more determined like by the way i talked to him at 5 30 in the morning you know more days than i talked to him at nine o'clock in the night he's so disciplined he's so focused and you see it in business too. And he's one of the greatest human beings,

one of the hardest working human beings. And I will tell you, he's had no luck. That's all. Really? That's all will to win. Wow. Ask him to tell you the story of how he came back 28-3. He'll probably give you a little bit of a PG version of it.

Okay. But tell him I told you to ask him. I will. But it's just like, it's his personality. Like I put in, we had a meeting with our biggest investors and I asked him to come

and interview him in front of our investors. And like, you just like, you literally, you're there, you're just like, I want to get up

and go kill everyone. It's just like, he inspires you like that. And it's like, I know people who are some of the greatest athletes in the world, they just don't have the heart,

man. He's got the heart. But it sounds like you've got the heart in life and business. How did you develop that heart? Or is that from parents? Is that from kids? Is that from not being good in school?

Like where did the heart come from and how do you sustain it for decades? I think it's a combination of one, not being good at so many things. Like I was the worst athlete always. I was always picked last on every team. Like, it was a joke. Like, you go to pick teams as a kid, I was always the last kid picked. I was that uncoordinated, okay?

How did that make you feel? That a little bit, maybe angry, okay? But that fire was good for me. It just made me want to work harder in business. Like, okay, if I was going to be a loser in sports, let me be a winner in business. made me want to work harder in business. Like, okay, if I was going to be a loser in sports, let me be a winner in business. Let me go to what I do best. The school

thing bothered me less, I thought. I was like, I mean, I was like Ferris Bueller in high school. You could be out of here, yeah. I did a co-op program in high school where in my 11th to 12th grade years, I got out of high school at 11 o'clock

in the morning to work at the ski shop that I owned. And my grade, 50% of my grades came from the grade that my landlord gave me. He just said, pay my rent on time. I'll give you an A on your co-op. And I still almost didn't graduate high school because I couldn't pass chemistry. Like, I literally couldn't pass chemistry. And so, so like that stuff was all motivation to me and even if like something if something makes me mad or sad it's motivation period end of story motivation by tommy is exactly the same way you're gonna see that next week yeah but what makes you motivated though and how do you sustain motivation to be driven to overcome all the obstacles that come in your way every single day? You're working with big business challenges.

People trying to kill me every day. Like, the bigger we get, people trying to kill me every day. That's just the reality. You know, you close one eye and there's someone coming for you behind. Yeah, 100%. That's business. How do you stay calm, though though during the chaos and stay motivated when everyone's coming after you? Well, if you're not calm, you're going to make worse decisions.

So I think you need to be calmer during the most important times. Also, by the way, something I've always believed, I actually put something out when I put Tom in front of our thousands of employees, we were talking about how do you deal with the most high pressure situations? thousands of employees, we were talking about how do you deal with the most high pressure situations? Always be calm during these situations. Interesting. So, you know, look, I think some of it you're born with it and some of it you can just muscle to. But the most interesting thing I guess is there's never a time I need to work less and I've never worked harder because to me, business is my drug. Okay? That's what I love because I'm overall good at it.

By the way, there's lots of things I need to improve my game on, but I'm overall good at it. And that's how I, you know, that's how I, I don't know. Let me ask you a question. If you're a professional athlete, do you want to stop playing sports

or do you want to play as long as you can? I wanted to play as long as I could. I got injured, which made me stop. And most athletes want to play as long as they can, right? For me, the great thing about being in business, I think I can do this sport for the rest of my stop. And most athletes want to play as long as they can. Right? For me, the great thing about being in business, I think I can do this sport

for the rest of my life. Yeah. So you don't have to worry about, you know, injury holding you back from playing. Yeah, yeah. You can still be injured

and be on the phone and negotiate deals. I worry about mental injury, which some might argue I have already. You and me both, man. One of the things that I really appreciate about you

is that, obviously, you've built, you know, massive businesses, but you care a lot about philanthropy and giving back as well. Make-A-Wish Foundation, you guys have did a big partnership with them, which I think is really cool, but also the Reform Alliance I think is really inspiring. It's really about criminal justice reform. Growing up, my older brother went to prison for four and a half years, And just watching what happens to inmates in prison, after prison, is a challenge. It's supposed to be rehabilitation. Yeah, exactly. And in a lot of cases, it's actually getting you stuck in the system.

And I know there's a lot of people who will say, oh, once someone does something wrong, they need to be in prison. That could be the right answer in a lot of cases. But the point of prison is to help rehabilitate someone, not to entrap them for the rest of their life. Exactly. So I really acknowledge you for not just wanting to make the most money and build the biggest business, but also for trying to make change in different areas with kids, with prison reform, all these different things that you do. And a lot of these things are public and you have partners on all these things. But I'm curious, what's the thing that people don't know about you that you're most proud of? The stuff that's not out there online, the stuff that isn't public information. What's the thing about you that you're most proud of that people

don't know? Well, first, you brought out the things that we try to do to make the world a better place. That's our responsibility. If you're in the position that you have a responsibility to try to make the world a better place, I don't responsibility. Like if you're in the position that I'm in, you have a responsibility to try to make the world a better place. I don't think we can do enough of that. And I really feel that way. I also will tell you something that I didn't know. Remember, I was a person, I've been very public about this.

Until 2017, I would always give money to people that were important to me, causes that were important to me, always help financially. I never did the work. My work was just giving the money. And then obviously I went through the experience that everyone knows, my friend who went to prison for not committing a crime. And seeing that firsthand, being in a courtroom, watching someone go to prison for two to four

years for not committing a crime, for going for a probation violation, for pumping a wheelie on a motorcycle, I felt powerless and hopeless for what was happening to my friend for the first time because I couldn't help him and I think putting the work in for that changed my whole perspective because up front people thought um and what everyone said to me is don't get involved with this it's going to hurt your business you know everyone told me I just went with my instincts like you know I had to be there together with you know we had another friend that helped as well to help make a you know to help fix this and the most interesting thing was a couple years later when the pandemic started we did this giant um you know kind of fundraiser called the all-in challenge it was you know pretty spectacular raised 60 million dollars for you know

for food insecurity and we were sure it was going to hurt our business and ended up helping. We thought, hey, we're going to be asking our customers to donate to this at a time when there's no sports and we're a sports company. It's going to hurt the business. What actually happened was it created a halo for our business. So one of the fascinating things, if you do the right thing,

some way, somehow, you're going to get paid back in karma eventually. And I didn't know that before. Really? So I will tell you, I just gave money my whole life until 2017. Then when we put the time in, I spend real money.

Like I spend, I'm sorry, I spend real time, not money. I spend real time in addition to money, trying to do things to make the world a better place. Those things, whether they pay dividends to yourself,

how you feel, whether it's the people you help, whether there's overall just good karma that comes back to you they always benefit in the long run so I'm always saying to big business leaders man do the right thing personally helping people you'll get that payback for sure yeah I've seen that a thousand times over and it may not happen this year or right away doesn't it that you just if you're just you're building up chips yeah you're building up chips yeah and look so i used to give financially but now you're you're giving more

i only i gave zero energy only money until 2017 yeah yeah and i used to me the question hey you're you're someone that's important to me you have something that's important to you how can i write the check as quickly as possible to get you out of my office so i can go back to business and then i had this life-changing experience with my friend and that really opened my eyes. And then we've done so many charitable things since. So like doing Make-A-Wish, oh my God, what an honor. By the way, if you don't care about Make-A-Wish, I say this all the time because Make-A-Wish is like the greatest thing we're involved with. No one can say they don't like Make-A-Wish. You could say you don't believe in criminal justice reform. There are a lot of people that say, hey, they don't care about your

brother. They don't care what happened to my friend. You know, they made a mistake. They should go rot in prison. Okay. I've heard that a thousand times it's been said to me. Okay. I don't agree. I believe we should help people get a second chance, a third chance, but that's up for debate to who you want to debate it with. But helping kids who are terminally ill. Right. If you don't like that, you're a bad, I'll say right now, you're a bad person. If you don't like make a wish, you're a bad person. Like, like tune me out of your life. Okay. So what an honor it is for us. Like, I remember I just, I was at an all-star game and we had these, these kids and, and, and, you know, we, we brought them to all-star weekend with Make-A-Wish and, you know, where they, we do all the sports things we do together, you know,

with Make-A-Wish and Finax, you know, we do everything together in sports. And like, I said, these kids, you guys are so gracious to me like i want to thank you because you're inspiring me you're inspiring our company all the people that get to work with make a wish man they're inspired by you and it's such a you know it's such a great thing to do that's beautiful man um but what would you say is there a moment or something that you're most proud of that people don't know about it's probably the this look there's so many little things you do every day to help people that that you know you never talk about you just you want to do it to make a difference for people yeah

you know and and and i care about that because i think i'm lucky and so if i'm lucky i should be able to to you know give back in whatever way i can absolutely how do you think someone creates more luck in their life so i'm a so I'm a pretty superstitious person, which might sound weird, but I'm a pretty superstitious person. By the way, I'm the type of person that can't like, if my team is winning, I'm not moving. I'm weird like this. I've got some weird

superstitions. Don't switch seats. If I'm playing blackjack in a casino, I'm not switching up. Like, I believe in keeping what's working going. How do you make better luck? I think be a better human. Like, that's the truth.

Like, be a good human, you'll create your luck. Okay? Hard work and be a good human. Yeah. Do you ever feel guilty for your luck? No. No. I feel appreciative. Yeah, that's good. I feel appreciative, but I don't feel guilty. Yeah.? No. No. Do you ever feel like, oh, this...

I feel appreciative. Yeah, that's good. I feel appreciative, but I don't feel guilty. Yeah. What would I have to... You know what I feel... The things I would feel guilty about would be like, if I miss something, if I let somebody down,

that's where I feel the guilt. Why do you think some people who have created more opportunities for themselves sometimes feel like bad for the success they've created have you ever seen that with anyone um not much to be honest no i think look at the end of the day you make your own luck anyone who says like you know look to be successful in business you need to you know be smart have a good strategy get the right, outwork your competition and luck to that. You need luck to go with that. Okay. So it's a component, but I think like you make your own

luck too. Do you think if, you know, you would have chose a different business model or different industry, you'd be able to create what you've already created by now? Or do you think a lot of it is kind of timing, the luck, being in the right place, right time to get you launched. But obviously you have to keep sustaining it year after year, and you could go out of business like you almost did in 2009. But do you think you could also just do this in a completely different industry at this time as well? I do, really. I do. I know it sounds obnoxious and confident, but I do. And I'm not going to lie about that. So here's the question. When I was 16 years old and I ran out of money and the sheriff showed up at my house, you know, every day with the new lawsuits for three months straight. And then I turned that near bankrupt experience into, you know, being the largest, you know, closeout company in the

world at age 21, doing a hundred million dollars and making $10 million a year, was that luck? Or was that, you know, hard work and just unrelenting personality? You know, when I almost, you know, got margined out of my company and pushed out of my company in 2009, was that luck? Or was that, you know, my just unrelenting attitude? I would say I made my luck in those situations. Now still, like, I might leave here, look at in those situations. Now still have good, like, like I might leave here, look at my phone and someone might tip me off to something that I need to know

about competition or something. And like, that's, you know, something, but it's a common, it's kind of like, again, great relationships, build great relationships. That'll make good luck for you too. Wow. That's great. A lot of people here who are watching and listening, there's a lot of entrepreneurs here. I see people struggle as they don't have a lot and they start to earn more and more. If they go from zero to 100,000 in sales and then to a million, then 10 million and beyond, you see people's energy start to shift as they earn more. Did anything shift for you energetically inside or emotionally when you went from your first million to a hundred million to a billion? Yeah. I got hungrier. I'm just being honest. And

by the way, I shouldn't say this, but I think it's lame for the people who got more lazy and more complacent. Like I have a friend who we will not name or give any hints to, but the person made tens of billions of dollars. And I was sitting with them once. We won't talk about where, so I don't call anybody out. And they were just like, they were done. They didn't want to do it again. I was so uninspired by that. I was like, this is lame, man.

I left like I had no interest in that person. Interesting. But besides hunger of wanting to create more, give more, all these different things, contribute more, was there an emotional energy shift of like, oh, this is more exciting. I have more money in my bank account or my net worth. Now it's like I've got a different feeling or identity about myself. Because I think a lot of people's identities shift when they hit certain financial marks or exit companies. So mine have never.

People might call on that. Go for it. Yeah. I will tell you because I'm always paranoid about, you know, what's going to go wrong. Okay? And if you stay paranoid and you stay hungry, then I don't think that you, I don't feel those things. Like when we do, like we have great things that happen all the time. Like I'll be like, okay, we can celebrate it for 60 seconds.

Let's get right back at it. But I think it's more the fear of, I recognize like, I built, we have three businesses today, Finanx Commerce. I built it from a $250 million business to a $6.3 billion business. And I look at that and some people would say,

oh, that's great. I'm looking at what are all the things we need to do to reinvent the business, to get from where we are today, to get to, you know, our next chapter. For us, it's about, you know, we haven't been good enough from a consumer experience. We need to be great, not good. Okay. Getting 99% right. If you get 1% wrong, when you have 70 million transactions a year, that ain't good enough. Okay. And we're worried about how do we become just great a product where we haven't been great at product. So, like, I'm always thinking about how to, like, I'm not worried about, I'm not saying, oh, this was some great accomplishment.

I'm saying, man, here are all the things we don't do right so we can be that much better in the future. You know, in our gambling business that we've just launched, we're now in 20 states with FNAC Sportsbook. I'm like, hey, I got fans doing draft kings that own 80% of the market. I want to figure out how I take real share from them. By the way, I'm friends with both of them. Great companies, but we're playing a game.

I want action. Let's go, baby. Wow. Okay. In the collectibles business that I just got in three and a half years ago, I got lots of companies trying to kill me. So that's my normal day is people trying to get me from behind, all kinds of shit going wrong.

So you just got to be smart, be disciplined, be thoughtful, prioritize, and like focus. Wow. So when you go into a new, I guess, business, like the gambling business, let's say, and there's already different market share leaders. There's a couple, two or three people that are kind of having the market share. What is the mindset you go into of like, we're going to launch into a new space. Sure. We've got a big customer base already, a big brand, lots of money, resources team, but they own the market right now. What's the thought process of saying, we're going to go into this, and what are the three things you think about of launching into a space

and how to really take over market share? So it's a great question. I'm going to let you into my brain right now. This is something I've definitely never talked about. take over market share? So it's a great question. I'm going to let you into my brain right now because this is like something like I've definitely never talked about. And it's fascinating

for me to even examine it myself every day, which I do. So when we started in the merchandise business that we call FinanX Commerce,

we were the third player in the market. And through, you know, a lot of hard work and innovation, we became the number one player still with so much to do. Like we have so much to do to be better in the market. And through, you know, a lot of hard work and innovation, we became the number one player still with so much to do.

Like we have so much to do to be better in that business. Of course. Okay. But you're number one. We are. And in the collectibles business, we were- Side note there, from how long did it take you to go from third to number one after launch?

Third to one was probably only three or four years. Three or four years. Okay. Sorry, go next. By the way, 24-7. Like I'm worried about everything. Obsessed. Paranoid about everything.

Obsessed. Okay. Okay. And I think what's more interesting for me actually is where we are today. How do we completely reinvent ourselves? Because now we're only focused on how do we become the best consumer company in the world? Anytime someone gives us shade over something we screwed up or something that didn't go well, it actually hurts me. It bothers me. I sit up, I'm obsessive. I sit up and look in social media. I don't look for people saying great things. I

look for the negative comments. Are they right or wrong? If they're wrong, I don't care. If they're right, how do I use that to be better? I'm sending notes to people all day long saying, how did this happen? How do we be better? Just to use it to make us a better business. Okay. In the collectibles business, we weren't in the business three and a half years ago. Now we're the top player in the business and we're innovating. And we're making the consumer experience and the collector experience so much better. And we're marketing that hasn't been done before. It's fascinating. But the interesting thing is we're the, you know, I'd say we're the leader in each of those two businesses. In gaming, I said, okay, look, gaming, online sports betting, and iGame is going to be a really big business long term.

Okay? Potentially, if we had that same type of leadership, it would be the best of the three businesses. Okay? But today we're not in it, but we have some real strategic advantages. We have 110 million customers. We do 70 million transactions a year, offline and online. We can, you know,

use that to kind of cross-sell customers into gaming. But now I'm a year into, I'm a year, I came up with the idea three years ago. We're now three, we launched a year ago. We're just, as of today,

we're in 20 states, 19 under the Fanatics brand, one under the Points by Brand. We'll be all under the Fanatics brand April 30th. Okay, everything will be under one brand. And what we've been focused on is obsessively building the best product. And then once we do that, getting ready to cross on, the most interesting thing is, I don't know sitting here today, am I going to win or not?. Now I have that confidence that I've done it in commerce. I've done it in collectibles, but I have that concern. Hey, you got FanDuel, DraftKings, MGM, great

companies. Okay. That are really good competitors, but I love playing that game. That to me is so fun. And so not knowing exactly what that, like, am I confident? Yes. But do I know that game. That, to me, is so fun. And so not knowing exactly what the outcome is. Am I confident? Yes. But do I know? No. So what do I need to do? I need to build a great product.

I need to have great relationships with my customers. Okay? I need to leverage all the assets that I have at Fanatics. The relationships with 110 million customers. The relationships with thousands of athletes. And use that to build our business in a way that's great for everybody. But I don't know what the answer is yet. This is fascinating. So if you're listening, make sure you give us a chance.

Go to Fanatic Sportsbook. Get on the app. Try it out. I think you're going to like it. There you go. My only pitch. I like it. I like it. So when you're thinking of a new space to launch into, you did the commerce, you did the collectibles, you did now gaming. Are you did, you know, now gaming.

Are you thinking, this is a really interesting space. I could see it blowing up. We should get into this. Is that kind of part of the philosophy? So what I'm generally thinking about is, is it a big enough business to be worth our time?

Yeah. Which is probably a billion dollar minimum. I'd say at this point, we need to think it's a billion dollar profit business long term, not revenue, profit. Okay. So number one, is it billion-dollar profit business long-term, not revenue, profit. Okay? So number one, is it a billion-dollar profit business long-term?

That's actually our number. Number two, is it completely synergistic with the rest of our business? And most importantly, and this is the most important thing, can we make it better for the fan? Okay? Than what's already out there. Yep.

Interesting. And by the way, in some cases you have, what's out there there yep interesting and by the way in some in some cases you have what's out there has not been good enough so better is you know still not good enough you know we're still not great yeah right and and we've been there certain times but at this point it's like can i do something that's better for the fan is it completely synergistic is it a big opportunity if we don't get yeses to all three, we're out. That's interesting. I love getting inside your mind now. Now, when you're thinking of like, okay, here's, you know, gaming, betting, all these different things. Are you then checking out all the competitors that are out there?

Maniacally. So you're downloading the apps. You're checking out. You're researching it. How many of their business model, everything. I'm talking to everybody known to mankind. I'm meeting with the companies. I'm meeting with the analysts. I'm meeting with employees. I'm talking to everybody known to mankind. Really? I'm meeting with the companies. I'm meeting with the analysts.

I'm meeting with employees. I'm interviewing people to learn. I'm learning everything I can. And how long will you... I can't read. Right, right. So you're interviewing everyone and researching. How long will you do that research phase for?

Is that a few months? Is that a year before you decide we're going all in? It depends. There's sometimes like I've researched media for years and said, we're not doing anything. Really? I researched ticketing and said, we want to offer tickets to our customer. We don't want to be a ticketing company. We just want to work to have them for our loyalty program, for our most important customers. So I do a lot of research that nets out of not doing it. Interesting. Okay. For me right now, we have three businesses, Finax Commerce, Fina Fanatics Collectibles, Fanatics Gaming. They're all massive opportunities. I don't want to do

anything new. Anything I do is to support those three businesses, to be better in those three businesses, to make the fan experience better. Wow. And so you'll research yourself. I'm sure you'll have teams researching as well. But I'm a big, I will say on something new, I'm the biggest researcher myself always. Right. That's always how I'm learning. You have to love it and be excited about it look look we just started a new business called fanatics events uh which is basically you know i went to there's so many of these local trading card shows and they look like they're you know they look like they're flea markets from 30 years ago mom and pop stuff yeah yeah then i went to comic-con i'm like this is incredible how do i do this for sports and then we said we're gonna launch this by the way i did that and i walked into comic-con 10 minutes later

i said i'm launching fanatics events and I'm hiring the CEO of Comic-Con. Really? And I called, get this guy in my office and we hired this guy. And now, yeah. You hired him just like that? Just, just, I made the decision in 10 minutes. There are other times I'll look at something for three years and say, we're not doing it. Okay. How did you get the guy to leave Comic-Con to come, you know, run your business? What would be more fun than building the biggest and best sports event in the world with Fanatics? I mean, think about this. Do you want to, I mean, Comic-Con, you know, Fanatics Fest.

Fanatics Fest can be so much more fun. That's cool. We're launching our first event, August, Javits, New York City. I bet you we have 100,000 people come to this with the best athletes in the world, best brands in the world, all the sports properties doing incredible stuff. That's amazing. Yeah, it's exciting. It's fun. But I still sweat it. Like, I'm'll worry every day is everyone gonna show up you know by the way is

everyone gonna be or is everyone i need to be there gonna actually be there i mean it's it's no different like you know you still have these crazy you know thoughts sure sure tonight i wanted to ask you about the fanatics athlete immersion program can you share more about that? Yeah. Look, first, without the incredible athletes that play on the field, on the court, on the ice every day, we got no business. I got nothing. I'm in a different industry. So we're super appreciative of that. One of the things that I'm always getting people reaching out to me and asking me from current athletes, professional athletes is like, hey, I'm interested in business or hey, you know, I want to figure out what, you know, how I could build this business. So we thought like we were the company perfectly positioned to create like the dream intern program. And so basically

we've played around with it for several years, but in the last couple of years, we said we want to go on and do this. So we're now taking 60 professional athletes, three classes of 20. We're now taking 60 professional athletes, three classes of 20. We've got a class coming up in July that will be NBA and NHL players. We did – I saw the NFL one you did. Yeah, we just did an NFL and WNBA one, and then we did one in November that was baseball and WNBA. And we'll have curriculum from having, you know,

the CEO of Mitchell Ness talk to them about how to build their own brand. The person who runs our social impact talk about how to make the world a better place. To, you know, our CFO talking about how to build the business. To, you know, our strategy talk person talking about, you know, how we decide what to do and what not to do. Then we bring an outside guest. We have the CEO of Verizon, the CEO of Anheuser-Busch, you know, the CEO of, you know, the CMO of Visa, you know, Robert Smith, who's the richest, you know, black guy in the world, you know, come in and, you know, talk to these players about how they built their businesses. So it's like Fanatic's giving them, you know, kind of the day course of everything that

we can show them and then getting great outside speakers. It's amazing watching the look on players' face. They're just like, so they love going through it. It's like, and we do it for one week and it's a great program. That's amazing watching the look on players' face. They're just like so, they love going through it. It's like, and we do it for one week and it's a great program. That's amazing. There's so much stuff people can find out about you. I've got two final questions for you,

but I want people to follow you on Instagram, Michael Rubin on Instagram. Where else should we go to be of support service to you and learn more about everything you're up to? Well, first we love, like we love, you know, cause look, we're in the consumer business. I mean, you know, go tell us what we do well and we don't do well. And by the way, you know, we like when you tell us we do well, we also like when you tell us we don't do

well. That's helpful input. That makes us better. You know, where do they do that? Where do they send that message? Um, you know, people, people, people, a lot of people, people email you, they, they, they, they hit the company. Sometimes they hit social, but we're, we're looking at everything and we're, we're, we're trying to fit anything. By the way, look, we're the consumer business. We have so many transactions. We've touched so many customers. 70 million transactions a year. Yeah.

And we don't get everything right. And so, you know, if we don't get everything, we own that. We want to be better at it. So we love feedback, you know? So we love the good feedback. We love it. Like I went out, you know, what we did last week with the launch, it was like the feedback was amazing.

You know, there are other things that, you know, we'll just, you know, look, you know, we'll have issues that go wrong with things, but we always want that feedback. That's how we get better and we learn and we grow. That's beautiful. But we care so much. That's beautiful, Michael. Well, I want to acknowledge you before the final two questions for your drive, man. It's inspiring to watch your drive at this season of life with the success you have.

What do you mean? I'm a kid. I mean, you're a little older than me at least. I don't believe that. You're a kid. You're older chronologically, but biologically you've got the heart of a kid and the drive of a kid. Always.

But the thing I appreciate about you for my interaction is just your desire for feedback and your coachability and saying, how can we get better? We're not perfect. We make mistakes. We want to get better. Send us feedback. And I think that's one of the things that if people can take away a lot from this interview, but great athletes have sustained it for years are coachable, just like in business, you know, great individuals, great people in relationships. And so I love that you say, I know I'm not perfect with all the things we do,

but I want to get better at giving me feedback. And I'm not going to you say I know I'm not perfect with all the things we do but I want to get better give me feedback and I'm not going to take it personally I'm going to say awesome thank you now I'm going to go improve it and I think that mentality and mindset is one of the keys that has supported you continually in making you greater products greater business uh greater teams and all these things so I really acknowledge you for your drive thank you your commitment uh just your your passion for business. You make business look fun. It is.

You make it look exciting. I don't make it look fun. It is fun. It is fun. Well, some people, it's exhausting. Well. And they're drained and it takes a life out of them. But you show a different side of it.

Then you miss an opportunity. Exactly. By the way, when you played football, was it exhausting? But it was also fun. It was a lot of fun, man. But it was also exhausting. But I don't know. Two people. One person could say it's exhausting. Another person could say it's also fun. It was a lot of fun, man. But it was also exhausting. But I don't know. Two people.

One person could say it's exhausting. Another person could say it's fun. I look and say it's fun. Exactly. It's exhausting sometimes, but I love it. Yeah, exactly. But thank you. Look, I think that is a strength of mine.

And I got lots of weaknesses, but that's a strength of mine. And I'm loving every minute of what I do. That's beautiful. Final two questions. This is a hypothetical question. So bear with me for a second. Imagine you get to live as long as you want in this life. Hypothetically, you can live hundreds of years old and you get to accomplish and create

everything you want to create in your life. The businesses, the philanthropy, the success, all of it, it all comes true. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your content with you. So this interview is gone when you, you know, in a hundred years, anything you put out in the world of interviews or messages or social media, it's all gone. So no one has, but no one has access to your content anymore. The things you said, but on the final day, you get to leave behind three lessons. And this is all we would have of your information and your content.

I call it three truths. What would be those three truths for you? Rolling on this planet for so long, maximize every minute, enjoy every minute. And to me, enjoying every minute is doing what I do at work for the most part. Two, get the right people around you the right people take you everywhere the wrong people um take you down yeah and so get the right people around you and by the way learn from each other and third um you know failure is an opportunity don't let it bother you. We all fail in life. We all have lots of failures. Take each one of them, learn from it, grow from it.

Those three things would be three that I think of right off the top of my head. Those are beautiful, man. Final question, what's your definition of greatness? That's a really good question. I would say, I would think about two things for me. So I'm not giving you the exact answer you asked me. One would be winning at the highest level. And the second would be, you know, doing it the right way every minute of the day.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox

over at greatness.com slash newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I wanna remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.