The School of Greatness - Break Your Limitations, Reinvent Yourself & Become A Champion w/ Phil Heath EP 1272

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

Today's guest is Phil Heath, a legend in the bodybuilding world. He’s a 7x Mr. Olympia Winner, going undefeated in the competition every year from 2011 to 2017. Phil is tied with Arnold Schwarzenegger for the second-highest number of wins, just behind Lee Haney and Ronnie Colman who each have 8 wins. Phil is also the Founder and CEO of Phil Heath Labs and the founder of Gifted Athletics. His competitive mindset has enabled him to be a top competitor in the bodybuilding world as well as a successful entrepreneur and advocate helping others achieve their goals. In this episode, you will learn:Why you shouldn’t be afraid to reinvent yourself.How to be vulnerable with yourself.How to learn from every mistake you make.And much more! For more, go to lewishowes.com/1272Andy Galpin on Weight Loss, Stress Management, and Reversing Your Age: 1247Dr. Joe Dispenza on Healing the Body and Transforming the Mind: 826Gabrielle Lyon on How Muscle is the Key to Living Longer: 1267

You're a salesman of the year, why can't you do that next year? Oh, well, why can't you be straight A's every semester? Once you hit that champion level, that becomes your new standard. Everything else is zero now. Everybody else will look up to you, but you should be looking up. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message I never saw models of men opening up, showing that it can be vulnerable to talk about healing and

that, hey, actually I did go through some pain or some challenges and it sucked, you know? Right. Just to say that. Yeah, it's hard. You get grown men later on that we've seen in their 50s, if 60s, then shedding a tear over it. To me, it's almost too late doing that.

It's hard. Because imagine, I guess the way I look at it is, like my father passed eight years ago at 64. So what I'm thinking is, grew up in Dallas-Fort Worth, so you got to think back then, tough, tough, you know, no crying, no nothing. I'm trying to think. I only saw that man cry maybe once.

And it wasn't like a boo-hoo. It was just like a tear, like watery eye. But I remember my girl Cherie said, let's go see a spiritual medium. And I was like, nah, I don't believe in this stuff. I'm just like, if she's prophetic, all right, cool, we'll do it. But I went to a lady prior to her just to do like some energy work, some breathing and all that stuff. They did like this tapping technique and stuff. Next thing you know, I'm like boohooing.

You're crying, you're bawling. I'm bawling. They're just doing some little tapping energy work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, and she could sense it. She could sense like, oh, don't worry, I'm prophetic. Like, your dad is okay. Like, he says it wasn't about you.

Wow. But you need to let this go. You were a good son. So now it's just like, waterworks, right? Oh my gosh. Now I'm thinking, I'm like,

when he and my mom split and I was only like three, like two and a half, three, and he didn't show up for certain things. He always showed up for my birthday. I will give him that. Like, he always did. And certain other events, but there was a lot of times that he was supposed to and didn't. And I held onto that, like I wasn't good enough. So that anger, that frustration, like, why am I not good enough? Like now I'm seeking that in other people in all the

wrong places and stuff like that. When really it was just, I just wanted it from him. And essentially I had to put like a, I was instructed to visualize what that weight felt like on my chest. And I pictured an anvil sitting on my chest. When was this, when you were? This was like, I wanna say four years ago, five years ago? So this whole time or just looking back, how did that feel like at that stage at that time when

i'm laying down and i'm listening to this woman speak on this and i'm doing this tapping technique and all that stuff and i'm envisioning an anvil sitting on my chest and i have to pull this away from me and now hand it to him holy cow so i envision handing it to him. Holy cow. So I envisioned handing it to him because this was not for me to hold. This was his stuff. This was his generational trauma that came into my life. We share DNA. We share some experiences, but not this. I created that negative belief in my own head based on some experiences that I had that weren't true.

He loved me. Right. I was his first son. He had another one with another woman who I loved dearly and I have a brother from it. But at that time, I'm laying down, I'm like, I must give this to you, dad. So it allowed me to be at peace with it

because I was already at peace. Like when I was seeing him off, I would visit in Seattle where he was, you know, in the hospital. Before he passed. Before he passed. I made sure, and he actually passed away. I've told this story a few times.

I was actually guest posing at a Dave Lieberman show in Cleveland. Really? Mm-hmm. And I was guest posing. I get off stage, find out on the phone as I'm going to meet with some fans to do a VIP event that he passed Wow yeah but it was cool though because I realized like no more pain he's good mm-hmm I get to go spend time with these other people make it about

them they about me make it about them. If it ain't about me, make it about them. Give them a really good experience. But I always look at it now like even going from that part of dealing with early childhood and being an adult, life has no rehearsal. We talked about this. But make that your message, man, and know that you're not alone. Everybody's lost a parent or will or loved one. And it is how we process these things. And as far as a lot of men like myself who grew up without their biological father present constantly,

I admire guys like Tony Robbins. I mean, talk about a man that had to endure those different things. He had it way different than I did. In fact, I think it was worse, but he made that message to a message. So I think it was worse, but he made that message a message. So I think it's very encouraging to have the conversations like what we're doing so that we know that we're not alone. We can express ourselves and we can still be strong.

Crying is not weak. It may be leaving your body so you can just hone in on, wow, this is a really cool experience. What does this mean? Why are, where are these tears really coming from? Why did I think like that? And really dissect our thought process at 12, 15, 30. Yes. So then we don't bring that into a relationship. Because I'm sure as hell, I know I probably messed up in a relationship or two Whether it be guy or girl Because of some generational trauma that I didn't deal with because I carried that with you

Yeah, because we don't have the emotional intelligence Maybe because our parents were too busy trying to make a living sure Yeah, trying to take us to school or whatever Just to try to keep a home together and let us figure out life on our own that was me i was a you know i was i had a key to a house at 10 years old my parents worked non-stop so you know i didn't have a school bus i didn't have i was an only child so i had to deal with a lot of things on my own but i didn't i dealt with school and sports right did you cry a lot as a kid then when, you know, just going through the confusion of being with your mom by yourself and not having your dad?

You know, I was fortunate for her to get remarried very early to a man who was, in his own right, very successful. We weren't rich or anything like that, but he was a very hard worker, very mature. He didn't speak a lot. He just acted. So I was able to play life with my eyes, not by what he said, but what he did. And same with my mom. They didn't really sit me down and say, well, this is how you're supposed to live life. It was just like, we're too busy working and you'll figure this out, kid. You go to school to go figure this stuff out. They put the belief in them.

But no, very hardworking people that I definitely developed a work ethic from. I mean, my mom would get up at like 4.45, five in the morning, I'd hear her on the treadmill. And here we're doing those, remember those old school ESPN body shaping? Sure.

With galahs. Sure, sure. Wow. She would do that. So I understood that getting up early was important for her to go to work by 6.30 a.m. Wow. So for me to get up to go to school was like, she didn't have to wake me up. Because I wanted to be up, and I always hear her on that treadmill.

Inspiring. Yeah. So I think sometimes kids do, actually I think all the time, kids look at their parents, see their habits. What was the biggest lesson your mom taught you? Like your car, you must take care of it, so it can take care of you, but your body's the same. So her getting up in the morning and taking care of herself

allows her to go deal with, she worked in cargo services for a company called Sealand back in the day that got acquired by CSX Lines Logistics Company that later got acquired by Mattson. So she was always, when you talk about the hardest worker in the room, I mean, that was her. Wow. To be in upper level management through a couple acquisitions and stuff like that.

Being a black woman during that time probably wasn't heard of for her to have that type of role of telling people, especially longshoremen, what to do. Sure. A lot of guys don't want to hear direction from any woman, let alone someone that don't look like them. So I learned a lot of work ethic from her. And also my stepdad, I mean, and my real dad too. I mean, they always, they were never unemployed. They were always, they came from that era where you just worked your butt off and you didn't complain.

So I never really saw them complain. They may have done it, but I didn't see it. They didn't see excuses. So how could I produce any yeah so what was um so your father was kind of in and out he was there for birthdays and some events but he wasn't consistent is that right where do you think you'd be if you had this like loving father that stayed with your mom for your whole childhood where do you think your life would be honestly i think it would have been effed up. Really? Yeah, because I think

with two loving parents staying together. I think they loved each other enough to have me, but I think they just weren't compatible. I just don't think they were compatible. As I got older, I realized this. My dad, see, I almost thought that my dad was kind of villainized, but I think he was just dealing with shame that he wasn't able to do both. He wasn't able to be a great husband and a great father. He could do one or the other. He didn't mistreat me or anything like that. He probably mistreated my mom at some point, whatever. They just had disagreement. Maybe not. I don't think they knew how to communicate sure i i honestly don't feel like they knew how to communicate i think when i look at pictures of them both i mean it was just

like most gorgeous couple wow and it does make me think like what if but i don't think you know with why do you think he would have been messed up though because he was dealing with alcoholism and but he was a binge drinker so i mean like it was more like he would binge drink, but I'm, I'm assuming it was because he lost his mother very young and he didn't have the ability to communicate through that because he didn't have time. His father was raising four kids by himself and that was unheard of. You couldn't heal or express your mother. It was a process.

It was just like, dad's got stuff to do, son. You need to go to work, go to school, whatever, be somebody. So he had four kids to raise. So my dad probably just, yeah, he didn't have a stepmom. He didn't marry like that. In one of your videos, you were talking about recently about not having a chip on your shoulder to prove others wrong, but instead being focused on your mission, your vision, your goals, and proving yourself right. Were you always in that mindset growing up?

Or did you think, I'm going to prove everyone else wrong about me when you were building yourself up? In and out. Yeah. There's some moments where you're like, I just want to blend in with my friends because I grew up short.

So I remember not making a basketball team one time, and I'm like, but I just want to play with my friends. So I'm going to get better. So that fueled me. And then when someone would tell me no, I'm like, oh, I'll show you. Oh, I will show you. Or even if I didn't get a good grade on an exam I remember going to I mean this happened in high school this also happened in college if I didn't like the grade I got I would literally go

back with that scantron sheet and say I want to redo this no way oh hell yeah scantrons were scantrons man that was the death of me. Right. Right. Yeah. And I still recall like a time like in college where I was doing a business law class and the, uh, the professor was like, if you don't like the grade, you can arm wrestle me for it. So he was a 77 year old man. He was just talking trash. So I knew this, this was not the grade that i deserved and i believe that he had like the wrong answer key and he did but we had to argue about it so he was like no just take it again i said but use the answer key right i think he just wanted me to work for it i was cool about it i said how about this i'll do the test right in front of you right now give me

20 minutes i'll get this done wow it took an front of you right now. Give me 20 minutes. I'll get this done. Wow. It took an hour, but I'll get it done in 20 minutes because I got practice here soon. I will get this done in 20 minutes. But I guarantee you, you can give me the B test. Here's the A test. Use the correct answer key on that one.

We'll compare. Pretty much same score. But it wasn't that D. It was actually B plus. So I'm like, and he was like, oh, get the hell out of here. But it was good because I was just always competitive. If I didn't like something, I would change it. If I didn't like what my coach said,

I would say, well, what can I do to improve? And where do you think that mindset came from? Just growing up, man. I mean, growing up in South end of Seattle, we didn't have a whole lot. Violence was everywhere. I mean, just up in South end of Seattle, we didn't have a whole lot. Violence was everywhere. I mean, just like any other inner city. I just knew that in order for me to get out

and I just wanna be something. Be something where like my community would be like, we're proud of that guy. Wow, yeah, that's cool. Guns, violence, gangs and stuff was very prevalent. He didn't do that. But he didn't do that. He might've looked like a square,

but deep down we knew that we were just trying to pull him down because, you know, why wouldn't we? So he could screw up too. Misery loves company. But eventually those same people that were screwing up was like, no, don't mess with him. Don't be somebody. He's doing something.

He's doing something greater. That kid's student body vice president and captain of the track team and basketball team. He's all state. Leave him alone. Don't do this. Don't do that to him. Like the OGs would say this. I'm happy about that because I got protected. And it all mattered because I did do something with it.

I did go to college and that helped a lot of other young men and women in my area to do the same. So I think sometimes it's all proximity. Sure. So when you don't see people, you know, living in a nice house, you don't think you could have one. Or driving a nice car, going on vacations, using a passport until you actually know someone that did.

Getting a college scholarship. All I heard was junior college. Right. All I heard was JUCO right all i heard was juco you know and when i went d1 then more people went d1 right i'm not saying that was because of me i'm just saying i know that that helped absolutely open up someone else's eyes sure so it was very important for me to try to be a trailblazer in my own right take care of my own stuff then go back to that same area and say guys guys, this is pretty easy as long

as you don't screw up. Right. You know, there's a lot of things that are going to pull at you, but if you could just do this. Focus. Focus, hyper focus, and still, look, we all have friends that were doing wrong. Doing some real wrong. Yeah.

Still be cool with them. Just don't hang with them. Just, we were talking about discernment. No. That guy is about to do something stupid. Don't hang out right now. Just don't hang out right now. Holler at him during lunchtime. You're not going to know. He's about to go rob that 7-Eleven. He's about to do something ignorant. He's about to stay out a little too late. Go home. And you got to do that even when you're in business, in athletics, both.

When you start getting some fame, some notoriety, head starts to get big. Head starts to get real big. Oh, he's making some money now. Oh, people know his name. Oh, you start getting invited to parties and stuff like that and then you start veering off. Start losing focus.

So for me it was always like, how disciplined can I be? Because I know in life, that's the only way. And I'm going to fail. I'm going to sin. I'm going to make mistakes. But how expensive is this choice I'm about to make? Right. Because you're going to pay.

Man. Is it a little expensive, small, like a parking ticket? Or is it a DUI? Right. Or vehicular homicide? Something like that. You know, like choices and consequences is something that I always play in my head. We got choices and we definitely got consequences.

And I think the more kids understand that and even adults like we have to know that too because a lot of people make stupid decisions absolutely where we're flawed and we get our information from people that maybe not have our best interest uh-huh we have to use better discernment and realize this choice this isn't a really calculated choice here, man. This could put me in jail or this could hurt someone. Then ask myself, why am I making this choice right now? Is this for my own ego? What was the biggest choice you made? The biggest, let's say, mistake you made that could have led to something much worse for yourself that

woke you up to saying I got to stay more focused whether it was in high school or college or while you were you know doing Mr. Olympia stuff was there ever a time where you're like oh I almost did something really stupid that could have messed up the rest of my life um When I wasn't playing in college, I happened to get really suicidal. Really? Yeah. Why is that?

Because I felt like I was owed something. Here's a guy that was recruited by much bigger schools, goes to a smaller school because he felt like he could be the man. Going to a big D1 school, you're, you know, at the back. Yeah, you're sitting on a bench, yeah. I'm 5'9".

I could dunk, I could do all that cool stuff, but 5'9", playing D1. I mean, eh, let's go to a smaller D1. Let's be the man. And it's because I had played my senior year with a pro. I played with Jamal Crawford. So I knew he was going to go bigger places.

And I'm like, I'm not that good. I'm good, but like that good to where I could go to a major, like Big 10, Big 12, you know, ACC and actually play? Oh, no. I just didn't see that. So I thought, well, let's just go to the smaller school. Everything will work out great. And it didn't.

And, you know, coaches do what they want to do. I mean, at the end of the day, they can play whoever they want. It's their job to put themselves in the best position to win. It's their job. And I just did not like how I was being talked to. I didn't like how I was being treated. I didn't like the fact that I was already being recruited by larger schools. And I felt like I could have been playing somewhere else. And trusted you coach to you told my mama you recruited me I didn't come

to you like hoping you came to me saying you're gonna be a playing time yeah role player yeah and then now you know imagine an 18 year old 19 year old kid you know you go on you go in the game you're all excited you're thinking I just need to get my name in that book. You hit a couple threes and then you get benched and you're like, why am I getting benched? Well, that's all we needed you for. I'm like, but I could do more. I've been practicing for this. What the hell?

And then they tell you, oh, just keep coming back. Just keep coming back. And then you keep coming back. And then you're not getting no time. And then when you do, you don't have game reps. And you know, game reps matter. Now you're not playing as good. So then when you do, you don't have game reps, and you know game reps matter. Now you're not playing as good, so then it kind of justifies why they're... They throw you in for two minutes

and expect you to be an all-star. You're like, that ain't gonna happen. So I started, while everybody else went to the dorm or their college house, I put my sweats on and went for a long run. Really? That's where I cried my eyes out the most. And then next thing you know, I started laying out in the streets, like laying in the medians and stuff, sweats on and went and went for a long run really that's why i cried my eyes out the most and then

next thing you know i started laying out in the streets like laying in the medians and stuff hoping that someone would just end it really freaking all yeah and it's it's it's really you know mental health is a big deal and we talked about this you know earlier i didn't feel like i had anyone to talk to. I was very embarrassed that I even had those thoughts. And I, you know, like I said, I was 20, maybe 21. So I didn't really understand how to communicate. Just dealing with the shame, man. Yeah.

You know, all I wanted to do was play. Now I'm watching other friends of mine playing. Different schools, you know, grew up in the same hood. They had it worse than I did. You're better than them. And then I'm just thinking, man, this ain't working out. And I realized I put my identity into a game that I shouldn't have done.

I didn't look at the bigger picture. But then I realized when, obviously I lived, But then I realized when, you know, obviously I lived, I had to really think about what God is saying. It's like, this is not the way, man. I got something bigger for you. I didn't know what that was. I didn't know what that was. But I knew the disappointment that my parents would have

if they read about me in a newspaper, my real friends, how they would feel. But then most importantly, I'm like, how many times has God saved you from a really bad situation? And then I had to sit there in my room and actually think about that and say, why would you punk out like this right now, you're going to be out of this game soon. Do you really think that this is it? Or do you think you have something else to live for? But I didn't have any certainty of what I was going to do in the world

because you got to think 9-11 just happened as well. Those dot-com jobs, gone. so I'm in IT and in business those jobs went from like first year out of college like 68 65 68 thousand low 40s I'm like I can go be a adjunct professor go get an MBA and make ends meet I could you know do something I was putting money to it. I was like, this is not adding up. And you weren't gonna go play professional basketball. And I had to put some real science to it.

I was like, okay, Phil, let's just be realistic. Write it down. Let's write this stuff down. You gonna go play ball overseas? Okay, you can do that. For how long? Five, 10 grand a year. Yeah, and then bring it back, get taxed, whatever.

You'll be 28 years old with no job experience. The same people that you graduated college with will now be your boss. They'll be very senior. And they will probably punk you. So they'll be putting their thumb over you. So now you've got to work that corporate politic crap. At 28? At 28.

Oh, so now you're like, oh, what do I do? Oh, now you want to be a coach? Now you want to be an assistant at 30 years old? You think you're going to find a wife? Now you got a kid. Now you have a mortgage. Now you have all this other stuff. I'll be 40, like barely getting my feet wet in the college life. Is that something that I really dreamt about? No. Okay, then you need to start dreaming about something else. So I just was like, all right, let's just put one foot in front of the other because life's coming at me a little too fast, man. And then lo and behold,

I found a guy sitting next to me in an IT class that was viewing some images of bodybuilders and stuff. And I was asking him about it. So then he was like, hey, you just come to the student gym. I know you train in the varsity weight room. Just come to the student gym. A lot of us compete.

I didn't know what that meant. Went to a couple of shows. Next thing you know, I'm competing. Thanks, you know, I'm winning everything really I'm how fast that I happen like That was that was like the spring of like so spring of o2. I was done you were 22. So yeah, I was 22 that Full calendar year I was competing and you were winning and I was winning. That full calendar year, I was competing. And you were winning in your first competition. First competition, I did a show in Boulder, Colorado. Won the Novice and Open overall. Just like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did that. How did that make you feel when you had that new kind of hobby? Did that turn into a dream right away? Or was it more of like, this is just for fun to give me something to do right now? It was something dope because I actually took a photograph on October 8th, 2002. I've never shared this online ever. It'll come out later,

but I waited, I was still living in the basketball house. So I did five years of college. So during that fifth year, I was just completing those degrees and then got into bodybuilding. So I needed something physical, you know, to keep myself going.

And from the October 8th point, I said, no more basketball. If you play, it's just to screw around. But you're gonna dive, really take a deep dive into this bodybuilding world. Wow. And six months later, I did a show, April 4th, 2003, in the Boulder Theater. I happened to put on those little exposing trunks, man, and

put the tan on, did all that, and actually blew everybody out of the water. I mean, blew them away. Wow. And didn't know what the heck I was doing. I mean, I only learned from reading those flag magazines, Muscle & Fitness, and then a couple VHS tapes, and just went on a tear. I was winning every amateur show. I turned pro two years later, winning the Mr. USA in Las Vegas. And just went on a tear. I was winning every amateur show.

I turned pro two years later, winning the Mr. USA in Las Vegas. So I was Mr. USA in 2005, Mr. Colorado in 2004. And during that time, I had met Jay Cutler, who was already competing. He was guest-posing at my very first contest. And that following year, he guest-posed again. He was before you, right? Yeah, he was already, yeah. Oh yeah, he was much senior than I was.

So he had believed in me pretty early on. And come 05, we were guest-posing at the same show that I competed at my very first contest. And he pulled me aside, he was like, "'Dude, you're trying to go pro this year? "'Cause I think you're gonna go pro easily." He's like, if I can help in any way, I was like, dude, like you're doing the, you're trying to go pro this year. Cause I think you're going to go pro easily. He's like, if I can help in any way, I was like, dude, like that's, that'd be great. Get my name out to some sponsors, stuff like that.

So send them over some pictures. Next thing you know, I'm flying to Cali. I'm getting picked up by the senior editor of Flex Magazine, Muscle and Fitness, Peter McGuff. Rest in peace, Peter. But, but yeah, he, he picked me up. Got to meet Joe, Joe Weider. Next thing you know, I'm getting a contract I'm like whoa I can get paid right you're what 25 now yeah I'm 25 when I turned pro I'm 42 now so at that time I'm like wait a minute I have no money yeah how were you making money in those three years from college to oh man there was no

working at Chipotle or something? Right, right, right. No, I was working at a Valley Total Fitness. Okay, yeah, personal training. No, I was working retail. I was a retail manager. I was like, you know what? I want to learn how to run a store because I wanted to be in a gym

because I already committed to being this bodybuilder. So I thought, well, where could I immerse myself into bodybuilding? Just be around it. Yeah. So, but where could I use my business acumen from college? Oh, running a store. You do the hiring and firing.

You do all the ordering. You do all the back end of what's on hand, what isn't. And understand the profit margin and stuff like that. And you have to report to someone. So I thought, oh, this is really cool. I can learn a lot. I can move up in the ladder of this company. And I wasn't even thinking like, oh, I'm going to turn pro. I'm going to make money and all this other stuff. You weren't even thinking that?

No. I was just thinking, this is a way for me to pay for my hobby, learn a new skill. And then also I was bouncing on the weekends. I was working security downtown Denver at a couple of nightclubs. So I thought, well, this is easy. I get to work during the day and at night. But, you know, I'm single. So I'm like, I can meet girls at the gym. I can meet girls at the nightclub. And I get paid to hang out at both, kind of. So this all worked out.

All while, you know, I'm still, you know, reading these muscle magazines, but also books. Because we didn't really have the internet the same way we do now. The information highway was a lot different. So you really had to immerse yourself differently. I mean, I would literally get up one day of the month and drive over to the Golden, Colorado, where they used to have the old EAS headquarters. I would wait out there because they would do an employee sale at their factory.

Because I couldn't afford supplements. So I would wait outside. Getting for 60, 70% off. Oh dude, like those Myoplex Deluxe Packets. They used to be like five bucks, I can get them for a dollar. So you think like, I could buy some, then I could sell them to Lewis. Right?

And then make my money back. My friends at the gym, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I was doing that, but that was a way for me to minimize my cost, but then also buy more tapes, understanding like the body, biology, chemistry, all this other stuff. What are amino acids?

What does that mean? Why should I ice over putting in heat? Like, and I already had these things go on already, working in, you know, playing hoop, being on training tables and stuff. But now I understand a little differently. We were in the cold pool every day, man. Right, but we didn't know why.

It was just like something that you do. It always felt good. It felt like you got a little pop back in you. You got a little bounce after that cold plunge, man. Every day, that whirlpool with like four dudes. Just freezing 55 degrees. And then you get the person that just had the ice packs, and then you pour the ice on them. And you're like, oh, no.

But learning all those things and just having a willingness to learn new things. And not, for me, it was not about the job title. It was about what I was going to learn and be the best at that. And then next thing you know, like I said, I was able to basically quit my two jobs, focus solely on competitive bodybuilding. What's the most you made in that first year of going pro? So first, yeah, first full year. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So first full year. So I turned pro. I didn't compete until that following year. So I was making like close to like 80 grand, which wasn't bad. And then after I won my pro debut, so I won my pro debut and the show after that. So I won my first two pro shows, back-to-back weekends.

Wow. And then I signed not only, I was already signed with Weeder Health and Fitness, but they allowed me to just be exclusive with them on the publication side, even though they had nutritionals,

but they were selling that part. So they allowed me to go get my own supplement deal. Oh, that's cool. So I was, I signed with Metrix at that time. Uh-huh. So I was making like collectively like a couple hundred grand.

Wow. Like very early. 25. 25. 26, yeah. Yeah, 25, 26 years old, making a couple hundred grand. That's pretty big. And then one of the things I also did was when I had won my pro debut, I qualified for the

Mr. Olympia. I didn't compete because I didn't feel like I was ready. Really? Yeah. So everybody would just throw their name, you know, in like after they compete, you know, after they get qualified. I was like, I am not in a hurry to get my up right now. I need to learn more. So I understood that the magazines just now started putting me on covers and stuff like that. How about I get myself in better shape and grow an audience? I can't grow an audience if I go to my first Mr. Olympia and

get waxed. No, they're going to expect that though. Every rookie, you know, you're a rookie, but try to get in top 10, top 10, you end up 20th. And I'm just not going to be one of those guys that wants to be, Oh, I'm just happy to be here. The pressure I had, I'll be honest, was very big because I had to go to the Weider headquarters and actually tell Joe, Peter McGuff, Robin Chang, who was putting on the event that I'm not doing it. But yet they're paying me, but they're not paying me to compete, but they are, right?

And I just kept telling them, I was like, like just believe just believe in what I know and they're like Okay, you're crazy. Yeah, so then that was in 2006 2007 comes around. I do the same thing again two years You don't compete in mr. Lim now. I'm getting called up by athletes saying I'm scared All this I'm getting called out the mr. Olympia crest conference. I'm just sitting there, and they're just calling me out. Because you're winning other competitions. Yeah, I'm competing, and I placed fifth at my first Arnold Classic, which qualified me for the Mr. Olympia. I went right ahead, went up to Frank Seppi,

who was running the athletes over at Metrix at the time. I said, hey, is it cool that I take a year off? And I do the Olympia. He was like, yeah, sure, no problem. He was like, yeah, but you got to go tell a reader now. Good luck with that. So I'm like, damn. So the second time, that's when the internet became more prevalent.

And that was not well received by fans, by people. But my coach and I, we believe that this was for longevity. This was for long term. I turned pro very quick. Didn't mean I was an expert. So what I did do on the business side was we had a catalog, kind of like a yearbook called the NPC Catalog,

National Physique Committee Catalog. Had all of the pictures throughout the year of different competitions. So if you want to scout other people or just look at shows, you know, like, oh, sure, this is before social media. But in the back pages that every competition in there for the calendar year, along with the promoter's name, email and phone number, guess what I did? Put out that pad of paper, start people up hey lewis this is phil heath 2005 mr usa how you doing oh you're doing great all right cool i see you have a few events going on do you have any guest posers for those oh you oh you don't oh great i would like to provide my services for you i'll fly in i can pay for my own way but you

know do a flat fee of this and if you happen to like it I give you one week to come back and we'll do it again same price but if you wait past that we're gonna have to renegotiate because my stock is probably gonna go up Wow and oh you know okay no problem and click next one next one next one so my goal was how do I get more fans? There was no social media. So you had to wait for the magazines to come out. That took two, three months. Right?

How would they know? Go on a world tour, go on a tour. So I did my own tour. I had no booking agent, no nothing. But I knew, going through that catalog, I'm just going to cold call everybody. I'm just going to cold call them all. And at least those promoters are going to know who I am. They already knew because I was that up and comer. I was on the cover of Flex the night I turned pro. I mean, I was one of them. I was

like Kobe, the LeBron. I was that guy. But they need to also recognize the fact that I was business oriented and that I wanted to work. And you know, sometimes I ain't too proud to get on the phone. So it showed that, you know, I wasn't gonna get taken advantage of either. Not to say that I wasn't at some point in time because I was very green in the business world as far as entrepreneurship,

but at least I showed some, you know, some eagerness to learn and to put myself out there. So during that time, for those two years, I did more appearances than the people getting ready for the Olympia. Really? Think about it. When you get ready for Olympia,

it's four months out of the year that you can't train. You're training, eating, sleeping, rotation. Very few appearances because you're staying clothed. This is back then. Why are you not doing appearances when you're training for the... Because you want people to see what you look like.

You don't want your competition to know. So you're like, I know I'm not going to do Olympia, so I'm just going to do all these guest appearances and build my fan base. Build my fan base, and guess what? I made more money than the fifth place person. Wow. So I was basically getting fifth or even third.

And now the fans in like the, we're talking about like places like, you know, I go to Fremont, Burbank, go guest post there. I go up to Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington. I go to Tribeca, New York. I go to Florida.

I go to South Carolina. I'm going to, I mean, little places like Missoula, Montana. Now I'm starting to hit Kalamazoo, Michigan. Like these little smaller places too. And they speak your praises. Because normally when a person's getting ready for a show. They don't show up to these events. They're just eating. And if they do, they're so hyper-focused on the eating and the sleeping and the training and stuff. You think they're going to have this type of interaction?

No. They're so hyper-focused that they're not. They may say the wrong thing. They may be grumpy that day, but they're getting paid to do a job. And for me, I thought, I get to make this about them. Thanks for waiting in line, Lewis. How can I help you, man? Tell me about your story.

Tell me what you want to know. Tell me what you want to know. Anything you want to know about me, we could just talk shop. Me coming from a different background of sports, majority of the time people just enjoy just hanging out. Absolutely. But they were paying for that too. So it allowed me to help them with their training as well. Like just waiting in line. Me signing an autograph and a snap. Selling a hat, t in line, me signing an autograph, then snap, selling a hat, t-shirt, what have you.

But then they felt like, oh wow, like I actually had some value by meeting him. And I would always tell them like, hey, if you really liked this, you know, and I'd say it on stage, my little pose in the trunk, after I'm done guest pose, I'm like, guys, like, if you really like this, and I put the promoter right on the spot.

Tell them to bring me back. Tell them to bring me back. That right on the spot. Tell them to bring me back. Tell them to bring me back. That's smart, man. Tell them to bring me back. Y'all want to see me come back next year? Yeah. Oh, hey. I'm like, hey, if you don't do it, bro, we're having dinner later.

That's smart. And don't worry, guys. I'm keeping the same price. So I let them know. I'm keeping the same price. For next year. For next year. Even though I'm going to be bigger.

Even though, yeah. And they knew that. Uh-huh. And to this day to this day there's certain like i'm doing an event this weekend in la for one of those type of promoters that i kept the rate the same wow you know could i charge 10 times oh yeah but but loyalty is everything yeah loyalty because of what happened in college right right so that so yeah that's that's really how i played it to my benefit of growing a brand growing and it's just been a it's just been so awesome to share and to just be passionately present with people from all different walks of life yeah my fan base i i'm so thankful because they don't look like me. But we all have a story

and I'm always eager to hear it. Not to make myself feel better, but more like, I just am so curious. Meeting people that have, from drug addiction to sexual abuse to suicidal thoughts to just, oh I I lost 100 pounds, or I had a bad breakup and it made me into a great bodybuilder now. I'm just interested to see these things because I feel like now I'm in this space where I have the credibility and I can have these conversations

in a much more mature setting because Yeah. Because I've experienced more. Of course. And I want to help. I just, you know, that's my job. That's really my calling. Be of service, yeah. Yeah, man. Like, I've been so freaking blessed to, you know, I can say, yeah, what country haven't I been in?

You know, I got murals of me in different countries in the world. That's crazy. Never thought about this. Someone, I got a guy tattooed my signature on his bicep, on his forearm. I got a girl that literally has a tattoo of my most muscular pose, in fine detail on her arm. Another girl on her calf. Wow. What? I didn't, this is a guy that was laying in the street. This guy was willing to not stand up to the pressures of life

and was willing to just pack it all in and God saved me. And I'm so thankful for it. So when I won my first Mr. Olympia, you talk about going from, what was that, 30, 31, back to those different moments growing up,

all these different whys and aroes, all these times where I thought it wasn't going to work out, and I kept going. All those different synapses in your head, and then life flashed before your eyes, and then you're, whoa, I'm here.

10,000 people screaming and hollering. And that's why the tears flow. Because I didn't give up. But even when I wanted to, I had a higher power that was just like, nah, man, I got something bigger. And even now, it's not like, you know, I wanted to win 10 Mr. Olympians. I got seven. How do I digest that into making that not feel like failure? So when you, because you won seven in a row, isn't that right?

And then that next one, did you get second? Is that right? I got second, yeah. How did that feel going from number one in the world, seven years in a row, to number two? Did you think you should have won? Of course. I still do. How did that make you feel though? Did you,

did it, did you lose the confidence? Did you feel, still feel like you gave it your best or do you feel like, oh, now I'm not as good as I once was? I was hurt. Really? I was very hurt emotionally because after I went number seven, I, I had a emergency hernia surgery and in the world of bodybuilding, that's almost like a death sentence because long recovery, but also it's an aesthetic issue. Because you can have a scar or something like that. So, different sport, just patch you up and go back in. Yeah, you play. Bodybuilding.

It's all aesthetic. So, I retore that incision getting ready for 2018 three weeks out oh so to have to deal with that emotionally the physical part

I was able to deal with the pain like the pain tolerance that I have right you're a machine yeah you can push your pain

I'm in my yeah exactly I'm in my subconscious mind I'm just like you're not feeling it no you just push through just push through

but when I realized that there's a high, when I realized that I more likely was not going to win, as I was getting on that stage that night for the evening, for the second day, because there's two days, I said to myself, I'm not going down without a fight. And you can't fight so what what can i control well during the pose down you're going to be as aggressive as possible you're just going to hit shot for shot with this guy you're going to call him out i grabbed his damn wrist and i walked him over and i said no you hitting this shot now, because right now I'm still your senior type seven. If you want this and you're going to

probably win, but you're going to know this is for me too, because I need to see these photos later on. Wow. And I need to prove it to myself that I didn't just let you have this, even though I was told little birds here and there from judges telling my trainer that like, yeah, it's probably not gonna happen for Phil. I still, for my pride, man, I was like, oh no. You could tell me that I'm gonna lose and I'm like, oh, I don't give a damn. Like, I'm going to fight.

And I'm glad I did do that. He probably already knew he was gonna win, so he was like, I don't care. I'll hit these shots, you know, whatever. But the feeling I felt, you're just standing there. The next thing I read is going to be your 2018 Mr. Olympia. And when they said Sean Roden, not Phil Heath, I've been used to hearing Phil Heath, Phil Heath, Phil Heath.

It hurts so bad. I mean, you talk about knives it was more like someone took the sawed-off shotgun and just blew me away oh man but yet i was still alive and i could still see the hole and i'm just like did this just happen and now the roar from the crowd. I was trying to digest that part. Cheering him, not you. I was trying to digest that. Was that more like, what does that mean? At the time, I don't know what that means. Is it just for him or is it the fact that they just hated me?

Because I definitely developed the Tom Brady effect in my industry for sure. Like they just wanted to see me lose. Of course. So you got people that just want to see you lose. They don't care who it is that wins. So I knew there was a combination of all that. But then I'm like, but you have to, you got to acknowledge the guy.

So I hugged him and told him, congratulations, you look great. Ooh. Which he did. congratulations, you look great. Which he did. And I told him, thank God that we can make money for our families doing this. How cool is that?

How cool is it? I said, congratulations, man. And I remember what he said back. But I do remember now I'm having to deal with more roars. It's just ear piercing. And you're trying not to look in the crowd because I don't know if they're laughing at me. I'm thinking like all of the negative crap. You're embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. I'm the second in the world at something and I'm fairly embarrassed. But yeah, that's what you do when you're a winner. You do feel embarrassed. You do feel like they're laughing at you.

You do feel like you didn't complete the mission. This isn't completing the mission. The mission is to win, to be the greatest of all time. This was taken from me. These judges, they ruined this for me. It wasn't because of my own lack of diet and training and this, but my incisions toward like, what the hell?

Why now? Why? That's starting to play. But as you can see, like all milliseconds, trying to digest, trying to digest. They put the second place around my neck. To be honest with us, I don't even know where that is. So,

I get the handshake from our league president. Try to smile. Try to be cool, but it's like, what's he supposed to do, man? Like, you know, he can't show, like,

favoritism as far as, like, me as a human being. Did it probably maybe hurt him too? I'm sure it did. Because you know, I love that. Because I went from basketball and not having it to bodybuilding and struggling and not having money

to finally earning and traveling around the world and wanting to be Mr. Olympia, going through all this crap, and now you win it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. To not having that feeling. I got on one knee. And I prayed.

On stage? On stage. While they're awarding, I don't know what they're doing with him. I said, Phil, before you walk off, you're going to give credit to your creator because you know what? This is the defining moment of you as a human being, not as you being a champion anymore. This is about you. You can't be a hypocrite. You got on your knee and you pointed up in that sky.

You prayed. You thanked God and all this other stuff. But this is where it matters the most. This is such a character-building moment for yourself. This is not for show. This is not for everybody else, but you made winning habitual. Well, you're going to make these.

These are habitual things too. This can't just matter when you win. And I thought about my future self, what that would look like. So as I walked off, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. I remember having that check.

I was like, this is BS. I took all the medals off. I remember one of the expatriates was like, I quit. I was like, F this. He was like, it's just so bad for me to have sportsmanship, but I was just pissed. I'm like, F this. He was like, it's just so bad for me to, bad sportsmanship, but I was just pissed. I'm like, F this.

I'm done, you know. Because now I got to go get surgery again. I'm just like, I don't know if I can go through that. Like, this is just too much. The internet was getting to me. Like, you know, it was just a lot, man. Because I was knocking on the door of Lee Haney and Ronnie Coleman. And that got taken from me.

So I don't know, like, if I could, if it was really worth it. And that got taken from me. So I don't know if I could, and if it was really worth it. So I go backstage and, you know, I'm friends with Tim Grover. You know Tim. And he talks about that book, Winning.

Talk about Winning. Phil, you're a winner, but not tonight. It's sleeping with him. And all that applause, all those people that were cheering you on or even booing, you loved it. There was someone else right now.

You're walking off stage into something unknown. You've been second at the Olympia before, but it was different because you now lost a title mm-hmm for you got second the year before you won different mm-hmm how do you process this so I'm like scatterbrained and I'm diet I'm depleted I'm trying to figure this stuff out got no sugar yeah so I'm like what do I do I'm like okay subconscious mind where's my bag? Drink some fluids.

Yes. Put your clothes on and get the hell out of here. You know, it's interesting with winning. It's like when you're winning, all the pats on the back, even the people that hate you, kiss your ass. They do. Yeah. They do. When you lose, you get to see some reality.

They're with him now. Right. There was no one backstage. There was no interview. There was no one there. They claimed that they were. But I was like, well, what am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to sit here and wait while you guys, and that's part of winning.

Yeah, you're supposed to wait until he's done celebrating. Until we're done with him, and then we'll talk to you. Yeah. I was like, no, I'm out of winning. Yeah, you're supposed to wait until he's done celebrating. Until we're done with him and then we'll talk to you. Yeah, I was like, no, I'm out of here. Wow. So going to that hotel room, long, long walk, man. I wanted to walk home. I wanted to walk home, get to the hotel room. You know, you have bottles of champagne,

you know, you got the got a big old sheet cake. Do I eat this? No. Oh, Instagram. This is what, 2018? 2018. Give credit where credit is due. Go on Instagram and congratulate them.

Now I got to deal with that. Oh, and do I punk out and leave the comments off? 18. Give credit where credit is due. Go on Instagram and congratulate them. Now I gotta deal with that. And oh, and do I punk out and leave the comments off? Cause there's gonna be some people that are gonna let you, they're gonna get some, they're gonna clap back at you. Oh yeah, you deserve to lose, F you, this and that. I was getting all that. You know, even before, you know, I was winning.

You're gonna get that times 10 now because you literally said that you were gonna win. You know, they're gonna be like, oh, he's arrogant, he's this arrogant he's this he's that let me let me you know them those devils come out man wow because they saw vulnerability so i realized i was so emotionally raw that i had to trick myself into just staying in gratitude. So hard sometimes. Imagine all those years you're being invited to the best nightclubs. I would party at XS and Encore Hotel. They'd shut down the lights when I'd walk in and play.

The champ is here! All right. Oh, they'd do all that cool stuff. I didn't have no after party that year. Ooh. I didn't want it, though. Right. Because I was at the point in time of my career

where I wanted more intimate moments with people who really mattered. Right. And I knew that a lot of my even close friends and relatives were taking advantage of that hospitality. Sure. So I just wanted like,

it's funny though, because when you're winning, you have all those, the entourage and stuff. I literally had 90 people on a guest list going to that nightclub and stuff. You know how much that costs? So much.

So much. Imagine how many people poured me a cocktail. Pat me on the back. That's how it works, though. That's the other side of winning, though. Yeah. You know, you deal with those hanger-ons and stuff like that,

but when you're losing, I didn't have any text messages. What was the biggest lesson losing taught you? We're all, individually, I had to look at life like a space shuttle. It's big when it starts and it blows off. When it gets to the moon and comes back, it's very small. I'm halfway through right now. Parts that fall off. They fell off.

Those are people. And I have to be okay with that because they were necessary. And I was necessary for them too. Of course. But I have to accept that. So that best friend, that best friend,

or that business partner that screws you over, that person, whatever, that ex-wife or whatever, it's still going somewhere. They've fallen off and they got their own stuff. It just taught me that life's not finished, man.

Don't go in a downward spiral because you're so emotionally raw because you felt like you gave it everything you got. Did you give it everything? Yes. Did you get hurt? Yes. Are you the first person to ever get hurt?

No. Did you ever think that you would be the best in the world at anything? No. Wow. Did you not have a conversation with Arnold Schwarzenegger at the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic to say that you were going to win number seven and you were going to honor him? Yes. You won that. Yes. Did you get hurt while you were doing it all those years? Yes. But you still still won 7 Arnold didn't win 7 in a row remember he won 6 he retired he came back and won 7 he won 7 dude

that's a big deal man there's only 3 people in the world that have done 7 if not 8 learn it's not just smelling the roses

right now it's thanking your body and that was very hard yeah because what would be the first thing if you hurt, you get patched up and you, Coach, put me back in. I'm going to handle this.

When it comes to double hernia and intestinal strangulation and, yeah, you know, diastasis recti, where now I've got to put everything back in Titanium staples, mesh here, mesh here. You're going to leave a scar and you got six months of inactivity or very low active. And now you got to sit at home as a loser. That's tough. Honey, can you spike this coffee? Sure. Then I realized I can't turn into an alcoholic.

But I can't go to the gym. That's my fix. So what do you do? How am I feeling? Is that when you really started the process, emotions and feelings? Yeah. On that recovery stage? I had some good friends, man. I had some good celebrity friends that dealt with some stuff.

Because really at that moment in time, there's only certain people that you get advice from. Right, right. Who can really understand what you've gone through. There's three people that reached out, and I'll name them. Who's that? Shaquille O'Neal hit me up the night of. He came to the show, and I was very thankful for the words that he said. He's basically saying, sucks, happens, unfortunately.

Happened to him. You know, you just come back and if you want to come back, you kick the shit out of him. That's what he said. You know, he's like, you just, that's what you do. Recover, heal, come back.

Yeah, and then come back stronger. Dave Bautista hit me up. Told me that, hey, this is big bro hitting you up and don't, maybe stay off Twitter for a little bit. You know? Yeah, of course.

And Isaiah Washington, the actor, he hit me up. And he said, you're too emotionally raw right now to deal with the world. You need to give yourself some time to process. Yeah. So maybe hold off some interviews. Let me say the wrong thing. Did I listen to that halfway? I probably did some interviews that Let me say the wrong thing. Did I listen to that? Halfway.

I probably did some interviews that I probably shouldn't have done. But no one taught me how to be a champion during the social media era either. I didn't have a publicist. I didn't have PR. The whole industry doesn't have that. So no one was willing to even,

no one was willing to do it because they didn't know how to digest it themselves. There was no one from the league office that was like, hey, Phil, I know this sucked. I didn't really get a phone call from, I got text messages. That's not good enough for me. So-

I was seven time champion in a row. Yeah, man, now I'm like nothing. Yeah, call me. Yeah. So I had to rely on the fact that I did have, instead of focusing on the people that didn't show up, focus on the people who did. You got three people that have definitely gone through

some certain things individually in their careers. Listen, write down your feelings. Challenge yourself to write down these honest feelings. You don't have to share them with your world. Because see, what happens with social media is we're going to pull that phone out, we're going to say something, and we're going to look back and say, damn, I shouldn't have said share them with your world. Cause see, you know, what happens with social media is we're going to pull that phone out. We're going to say something and we're going to look back and say, damn, I shouldn't have said that. That sounded stupid. I write it down.

What was the theme, the consistent theme that came up for you? The more you wrote down things over those six months that, that kept coming up. What was that? Really? Then I'm hurt. I gave, I gave everything and I felt like it was taken away. And I'm trying. Really? That I'm hurt. I gave everything. And I felt like it was taken away. And I'm trying to understand, even writing to God, like, what does this mean? I don't know if I can do this anymore. I could do it, but like at what level? To my standard.

To my standard. The standard that everybody else has for me, I've already surpassed that. They didn't think I was going to win more than two. But my standard. The standard that everybody else has for me, I've already surpassed that. They didn't think I was going to win more than two. But my standard. Why does everybody else get to have this moment? They're not even half as good as me. This is my thought process. And people even could watch it now and be like, that's crazy. No. I knew how good I was. Because I was creating so much distance that even the announcers would say it like, the only way he's going to lose is if he

gets hurt. Wow. That's a Madden curse. You know? Like, oh, it happened. So the inevitable happened. Because eventually, we all get hurt. You get hurt or someone's younger or bigger. Yeah, but I was on a roll.

I thought I was really going to win 10 of these things. Really? Consecutive. Oh, yeah. So if you didn't get hurt, you think you would have won 10? For sure. I already had it bookmarked. I was like, I already know how this is going to play out.

I know how to strategize this. Even through 2018, I was like, if I win this one, I'm going to have to get the surgery. I'm going to know how to come back. Maybe I still sit out 2019 and I'm going to come back even better and then win that and then when that ninth one and I'm gonna go for ten and I'm gonna call it the decade of dominance I'm gonna write a book I'm gonna go on tour I'm gonna go non-stop I'm gonna hire freaking PR people we're gonna travel the world I'm gonna go do seminars I'm gonna do I'm gonna do everything cuz I was already doing some will make a wish

I was already doing stuff at USO I was already doing stuff you know like around you know I was doing all these cool things, but then what stopped me? I stopped me because I lost. I stopped my own damn momentum because I was hurt. So I had to learn that. And even in the past couple of years, I had to learn that. Do you think you could have come back and after recovering and won, or was there something that i think covet

messed that up i think when i came back i was also filming a documentary called breaking olympia with um adam scourgey and just the one that rocks yeah this is written yeah this is so cool so like so danny garcia shout out to danny and duane yeah um yeah they were co-producing the Seven Bucks Productions co-producing this. I'm so excited about it. But yeah, I was able to, we were already slated to do this, but it just so happened that the pandemic was going on.

I was like, well, I wasn't really thinking about competing again, but I thought, you know what? So you thought you were done. I thought I was done in 2018. I was like, you know what? I watched the 2018 Olympia

in Denver because I wanted to know what it felt like what? I watched the 2018 Olympia in Denver, because I wanted to know what it felt like to not go to the show. After you lost, I didn't lose, after you got second, the next year you didn't go. I didn't even go. Everybody was like, dude, you should still go. I was like, why?

Because you weren't going to compete. I wasn't going to compete, so why do I need to go? You weren't ready to compete yet. No, and actually I probably could have. But there was something about me, like in the mind and the spirit that it just wasn't, because to me, I have to have all of that going on. All connected, yeah.

All connected. It can't just be for the money. It can't just be, you know, it can't just be for ego. It has to like really make sense. And I also needed to know, I was trying to find answers. Is this what I'm supposed to be? Like God, is this where, like, I'm trying to be humble about this.

Like, how about I just take a time out? That's interesting. Because I felt like the first surgery, it was four months. Second one, six months. Eek. That's painful. So why put that type of stress on yourself? Recover.

Get a full recovery. Yeah, get a real recovery. See what that feels like. And honestly, see what it feels like to be home and if you really love it. If you miss it. If you miss it. Yeah you're got the itch. And then, but be away from it.

And also see if people miss you. And they're like, hey, where you at? We miss you. And then people were doing that and I'm like, but I think it, That was 2019, right?

That was 2019, but I think what happened then was that a lot of people thought that they made up their own narrative that I hated it or that I was a sore loser or whatever. And it was, and I tried to process that and I was like,

well, maybe it's because you're such a big time competitor that they just made this. But you don't have to prove yourself to these people. And I think that was the biggest thing is that I would have been going to the Olympia in 2019 just to prove to people that I'm tough enough to sit there and watch it. And it's like, but I sit there and watch it. I'm gonna be a fish in a fishbowl.

They're gonna stare at me, stare at my girl. They're gonna analyze every reaction to everything why put us through that that's more stressful why not just we sat around we went to a mexican restaurant we sat around and put the phone up like watch it there yeah i was like this is bull like i should i should totally and then the waiter was like aren't you supposed to be somewhere around the same time of year i was like yeah but they're waiter was like, aren't you supposed to be somewhere around the same time of year? I was like, yeah, but they're like, oh, yeah, that. Aren't you supposed to be doing that? I was like, and then that's when I start messing with my head. Oh, you're not doing that no more?

Oh, you're retired? Are you, you're washed up or you're? So I'm trying to play with that. So then in 2020 came. Did you think you could have won it that year watching it on TV? Hell yeah. Really? Hell yeah.

But that's how I feel though, right? Were you physically, was your body ready? The problem is that I wasn't training for it so I don't know. But if you would have taken the three months before

and really trained. Might have. But should have, could have, would have, like, you know, we're all champions in our own mind. Yeah, yeah.

I can still throw that football to the mountains. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, a Rico type of talk, right? So, you know, and that's disrespectful to everybody competing too. So I thought, you know what? View this as a real spiritual, emotional timeout.

Because you already got the physical part. This is a real timeout. Let's figure out who you are as a man. You decide to come back. After watching that Olympia, I was like, let's just do it. But then when March 2020 came, I was like, well, how the hell am I going to do this? How am I going to do this? But then I thought, this would be even better.

Because what if I do win? During a pandemic? And you're filming this? It's already being documented? Wow. What would your story be of triumph? And if you lose, and this was really cool cool because I remember meeting up with Dwayne. Dwayne was shooting Titan Games.

And I was in his trailer and he was. Out here in LA, right? No, he was in Georgia. Okay, yeah. So he gave me some really good advice and he was like, you know what, you have to figure out why you're really doing this. Why are you coming back? Yeah. What's the point? And it might have to be this is your last one.

It might have to be that way. You might have to put yourself in that mindset. That's what he said to you. Yeah, because there's other goals that you have that may not coexist. They may not coincide with one another. They may not work. Because I want to get in TV and film and do other things. Start businesses.

Businesses, coaching, seminars, all that cool stuff. It takes a lot of time and energy. Exactly. You can't focus all your time, training. I can be fifth at the Olympia going halfway, no question about it. But to be the best, that's not going to satisfy me. Chasing a paycheck like that, that's not going to, no.

You become a weaker version of self just chasing, no, I'm chasing history if I'm doing this. But then I started figuring out the upside. What's the upside? If I win, one of the greatest comebacks in history if I lose it'll depend how you lose and how you honor yourself because they've not seen you for

now 27 months I got third did I like it I don't know I'd be lying Did I like it? I don't know. I'd be lying if I said it. Dang. Did you think you could have won? I think I could have.

It was the first time in my career that I felt like my coach and I, we missed our peak. Because in bodybuilding, it is about peak week and stuff like that. We're able to nail down that formula. But during COVID, we weren't able to see each other. He lives out in the Bay Area. In Denver, he was dealing with his father. I passed away due to covid and this and that he's dealing with california restrictions i'm dealing with denver restrictions it was just like there there's a lot of things that probably could have changed i felt like i looked really good two

three weeks out where i should have won and it's a timing issue and this is how i've beaten so many other people is that i got the timing right. Even Arnold Schwarzenegger said in Pumping Iron, you got to get the timing right. So you want to run this race with world-class, world-record speed,

not in the semifinals of the 100 meters. It's the Olympic final that you want to do. Yeah, exactly. Right? You want to peak in the playoffs, not like during the regular season.

Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't do that. I felt like if I would have, no question in my mind I would have won. But that didn't happen. And I have to deal with that reality too. So when I was announced third, I didn't like it. The crowd didn't make a sound, which was very interesting.

When they announced you as third. Yeah. No cheers, no nothing. No, because they're like, they realize, the way I digested that was they're not used to seeing me lose. But they're also trying to figure out how I'm receiving this information.

That's how I digested it. So it triggered me to think back when you're playing ball and you're in practice and your coach is putting you through this thing called attitude check. They call a penalty or something in practice and you're like, that clearly wasn't a penalty. Oh, foul. You know, technical foul on field. But the ball was out of bounds.

You didn't call the foul. Double T, yeah. Right. And they do this in practice to teach you not how to react. They teach you how to learn how to respond better. So respond to the negativity of that bad news. So I was like, okay, well, this is bad news. I think it's total BS.

But eyes are on you, not just in this arena, but all over the world. You got third at your first Mr. Olympia in 2008. This ain't too bad, man. You've dealt with injury. No one has a story that you do. You've beaten these guys for over 10 freaking years. You also had what, 40 at that time? 41 or something, yeah.

Like what are you tripping, like you know, I'm trying to, as I'm walking. This is BS, this is BS, this is BS. Oh man, this is so stupid. Damn it, I thought I should at least got second, but really if I got second, it wouldn't matter. It might have hurt worse. Actually, you're right.

Cause you're like, oh, it was that much closer. And then maybe come back the next year. You know what I mean? Like you're still chasing. But without them cheering or booing, it was just like, they're observing. This is a very interesting point in my career. Then let them see you smile.

Yeah. I got on my teeth. Yeah. I'm good. And I'm honoring myself. I'm honoring myself. Thank God I was able, you know, now it's more gratitude. Like, thank God that I was able to do this for so long.

You're healthy. You're not injured now. Yeah, man. Like, third in the world. You got people that have competed for 20 years that never even got third. That don't even make the Olympia.

There you go. And who, who are you going to inspire right now? Your entire fan base and the entire world that's watching. Because they're going to look at you as a human being right now. You're, it's not like you as a human being right now.

It's not like you're not Mr. Olympia. It's not like you're not Seven Time anymore. You're still Seven Time. And try to find as much gratitude as possible in that current period of time. So I did, and I had to remember, oh my goodness, the guy that won in 2019, Brandon Curry, just lost his title in 2020. So you think you're upset.

He probably pissed. And then you got one of your other friends, Big Ramy, he won, and he looked up to me so much. Congratulate him. So I congratulate Brandon, because I knew everybody wanted to beat me. Of course, and that first win for someone is probably like, they're probably like, man, even though I got second,

I still got a chance to say that I placed ahead of Phil, regardless of how he looked. Like I got, that's a scout, that's a helmet. Like he can say, hey, I got him. That burns me up even now, you know, because the competitor, I'm like, damn. But then I'm like, you look great, the snap, go up to Ramy, I'm like, you look great, this and that. Go up to Rami, I'm like, you look great, man.

And he's like, I love you, man. I'm so happy, you know. He's a big old 300-pound mountain of a man. And I told him, this is your time, but you better come in better. Because I could have beat this, and you know it. Wow. I said, but I love you, man. But as champion, you have to be better.

When we talk about Ferrari and stuff like that, you got to be 0 to 60 in 98 seconds. You got to keep going, going, going, going, faster, faster, faster, better, better, better. You got to be better in your performance all the time. You're a salesman of the year. Why can't you do that next year? Oh, well, why can't you be straight A's every semester? Once you hit that champion level, that becomes your new standard.

Everything else is zero now. Everybody else will look up to you, but you should be looking not down, not even straight ahead, you should be looking up. And that's how I looked at it. Another mountain that I have to climb. So I had to remind him that,

because if I can be, my nickname was always The Gift. What can I give him? What can I give him? This is a person I'm competing against. But what can I give him? Because what do I really want to do is imprint my soul within this sport. Yes. I must give him a piece of me.

Wow. No matter how much this hurts right now. This ain't about me, though. It's about him. He put in the work. You did too, Phil, but this is his moment. And you know how it felt when people didn't give you your shine. They didn't pat you on the back.

They talked trash about you even though you won. You're not going to do that. You're going to be better. You're not going to be bitter. You're going to give him a piece of you. Wow. Because in order for this sport to grow, we have to do that. And if I decide to come back, he knows that I elevate everybody's game.

I have that effect. I didn't give him secrets or anything, but I'm telling him what this means. You got this title, but you must be better. Because if you're not, you might lose it. And I know how that feels. And it's not okay if you don't give it everything. Plus, it's not, you know, when people talk about the nth degree. I'm not the biggest mathematician or whatever.

But why not n plus one? That's what I live by. It should always be N plus one. Oh, you gotta go to the Nth degree. Huh, add one to that. Try doing that and people start squirming in their seat. Because they don't want to do it. Because they're afraid.

They're afraid that they have to reinvent themselves. They're afraid to, your salesman of the year pat on the back here's the check the bonus you get to take your wife on the cruise January 1st

budget cuts and your quota goes up 25 more percent and you're supposed to be winner how do you do it? you start complaining majority? You start complaining. Majority of people start complaining, no question about it.

But if you get hurt, so what? I was hurt in 2016. Still trained. 2017, still trained. Still dealt with the pain. Understood that the pain did not matter because what I was trying to,

my why was too big and I knew my purpose was if I quit now then I just I crap on every person that poured into me every fan that waited in line for me I I was probably one of the first guys to after I would win I would go with my trophy to the end of the stage and put my hand out just to shake their hand. Because I wanted them to feel what I was feeling. Wow. Because physical touch is amazing. It's huge, yes.

You see NBA players, and I can't stand it, I'm just going to call it out. NBA players, NFL guys, they all do it. This is what they do when they walk out. Imagine when you look up and they do this and they touch. Sometimes they just want to touch you, man. Now, I get it. Everybody ain't like that, but why not look at the person and say, thanks, man? Maybe their dad or their mom, that was the first and only time they were able to see you. It ain't it ain't gonna be about

how many titles you win. It's gonna be about how you make people feel. Mm-hmm. And I get being a winner and you gotta have this game face and this and that, but can you do both?

Yeah. I was able to do both and I wanted to share that because now, I already won. Like, let me shake your hand, man. So it's always been about like trying to deliver

different moments for people. Yes. And that's why I'm here, you here, fortunate enough to chat with you. Yeah. It's all about sharing different philosophies, mindset, but also just understanding that we have to deal with our own emotional traumas as we go through it. We have to raise our hand to say that this is not right. We all need to give ourselves some type of rest. We also need to understand when we are on vacation, we are on vacation.

And you're laughing because I'm sure you've been on vacation. Working away. Yeah, yeah. Working away. I've been on vacations where the nicest places in the world, and I'm too busy worrying about the next. But that's the hard part too. So we talk about winning. You're always, you know. Strategizing, thinking. Oh my gosh, I'm already thinking on Olympia stage where I'm going to be doing for next year or next month. You know, how I'm going to detox

and then get ready for the next one. But sometimes you still, even if it's for just a couple of days, you can just have to write it down and say, for the next two days, I'm going to make this about my family. Plan for rest and recovery, yeah. I need rest.

I need real rest. And I need some real time to reflect and write things down. And then look back at those things I wrote down because it's very interesting to see what you write down in those moments, right? Absolutely. I'm curious, when in your life were you the most insecure? Was it pre-Olympia days, during the height of your Olympia success or since, you know, the last few years? I've had insecurity probably throughout my entire life in some way, shape, or form.

Really? Growing up as an only child, yeah, you know, it took me until, let's say, like, 16 when I had a, or 15, It took me until, let's say like 16, when I had a, or 15, when the varsity coach of my high school, Mike Bethea, he's still there, knew that I had a killer instinct inside, but I was always trying to be liked and just blend in with the crowd sometimes. I mean, I was a hard worker, don't get me wrong,

and I was still competitive, but I could have been better. So, for instance, like, I could dunk a basketball at 15. That's crazy. At 5'9". At 5'7", back then. It's amazing. But I would lay it up. And it would get beat up off the glass, you know. And he benched me one time. And he yelled at me and made me run sprints during halftime. Everybody else was doing their thing and and made me run sprints during halftime everybody else is doing that thing you got me running sprints as a punishment to saying like you I will drill this into your head one way or the other I will embarrass you he yelled at me Mary hit me on the shoulder one time my mom wanted to run down the

bleachers and but you can't touch my son you know I'm like mommy's got we had our own relationship he was like father to me because he saw, he saw it. And he knew that I was just, just holding onto something like, what was it? And I, you know, I didn't know what it was. And I was just like, oh, I'm afraid. I'm afraid of missing or I'm afraid. And he was like, you're gonna learn.

He put me in that game. He said, if you don't dunk this damn ball, I will bench you. Remember dunking that damn ball so hard. Really? I dunked it. I mean, it was like dunking so hard, you know, the ball bounces. And then I was like, I did it. You know, it was like one of those moments like in my mind, like I did it.

And I'm like, but you've been doing it in your backyard. You've been doing it with your friends, but you didn't do it on a bigger stage. So that was one of those moments of insecurity of like, I can do that. What else can I do? Oh, I had an AAU coach that would say, if you can shoot six out of 10 on any place on the floor, you can do it in a game.

You could just pull up. I don't care. Pull up on fast break for a crying out loud and just shoot three. I don't care. But if you can make it six out of 10 with a hand in your face and practice, you can do this in the game on all day because that's going to translate to maybe like four out of 10 in the game. I face and practice, you can do this in the game all day because that's going to translate to maybe like four out of 10 in the game. I don't care.

I'll play percentages. That's what got me to college. Just having that confidence. But I needed someone to pull it out of me. So I'd say that in bodybuilding, I had some good friends that were just trying to pull that out of me just to say, you know, drop your pants and pose.

You know, you're like, wait a minute, man. I don't want to do this. First bodybuilding show, you're like, wait a minute, man. I don't want to do this. First bodybuilding show, you're like, wait a minute. I wear gym shorts. I don't want to use posing trucks, man. I mean, I'm good. I got a physique, man. But I was so worried.

Like, you know, I was naked. And I was worried that other people wouldn't like it. Because you are being judged by strangers who are physically judging you and then in the audience so there's that insecurity and then just when you looked yourself in the mirror where you're into the height of mr olympia were you insecure or were you more confident i probably say after number the second one after the second mr. Olympia win, I really owned, oh, this is amazing. You owned your body,

you're on yourself, you're on the moment. You don't have to have this crazy face all the time and try to be something that you're not. It's like winning can be habitual, bro. You don't have to be like everybody else to make people think.

You know, a lot of the time we may put on a front because we think if we look a certain way, we talk a certain way, people think we're serious. If I can just get the job done with a smile on my face, that means I'm a real professional. Bruce Lee didn't have to be like, he was just like, chill. I'm just in my mind and I can punch you I can do this I know what I can do

I don't remember Michael Jordan have to be like oh grunting cuss and this and that they just do I don't need to put on a show for you I am the show you coming to see me and that may sound arrogant to certain people but technically you are here to see me and that may sound arrogant to certain people but

technically you are here to see the champion either win again or be dethroned right I earned this place I earned it so I used to have to I would argue even with my coach my nutritionist you you know because we'd be peeking for a show and he'd be like very very nervous well that's just who I am I'm like that's you but don't bring that over here, man. We've been here before. We've been here before. I ended up drilling in his head.

I almost shake him sometimes. Literally like we fight like brothers, you know, tell him to go F off and this and that, walk out the room and I'd be like, dude, you don't get it. What worked for the first one or the second one, don't have to do that now. Once you have a system in place, I don't have to, I can be more mature and be more wise and say, this is a more controlled aggression. I should

know how to do this. I should know how to strategize and operate. I should know how to adjust better. I should make people have to guess what I'm actually thinking now. Like playing poker, the person that's sweating or the person that's chill. I know who I am. So around that third Olympia title, I was like, oh, dude. And that third one I won, I only

did one call out in the pre-judging, which is unheard of. That hasn't happened since like 1988. Where you do like one comparison and they're like, Phil, back in line. We don't need to see anything else for a two-day show. Wow. Actually, for a two-day show,

that's never happened. For a one-day show, that happened back in 1988 with Lee Haney. So explain for people that don't know, what is that? You just go out there

for a few minutes and you pose? Yeah, the pre-judging lasts anywhere from an hour to two hours. It just depends on how many comparisons they want to do with different numbers. Let's say there's 20 people. They bring her out

in groups of four or five. You just do quarter turns, maybe hit a couple different poses. They basically see you come out individually as well. So then after they've seen you individually with a group, now they see, okay, we've seen all 20 people. Let's compare some of them, yeah. We've seen everybody individually, so we kind of know who's on, who's off, but we don't know until we compare them. We compare them in a group numerically, and then and then we say okay out of the 20 people we need number five number seven number eight number 20 number you know 16 and then we compare them

quarter turns hit front double bicep all these different poses and then they may bring in another person move people around because the judges are sitting like this so the judges are sitting different angles and stuff imagine going going through that, you know, first full call out of the top five, who the judges feel is top five. They move me around to the center. Usually if you're in the center, you're the guy. They're comparing everybody to the center.

And then they brought us out one more time, and they just said, feel back in line. And the whole crowd gasped. And I'm like, oh. Which means you won. I just basically, unless if I do something stupid tonight going into tomorrow night,

this is a wrap. We're going to do some victory laps right now. But instead of thinking like that, I'm like, straight up Kobe Bryant style. Job's not finished. Let's go ahead and pour it on even more. Let's go.

Oh, let's like create, now, let's create, let's create a real moment. Let's create some real distance. Let's remind them who the hell I am. Ooh.

Let's, when you're on stage and you can actually feel someone's energy, and I'm sure you felt this on the field. It could have been like coin toss. It could have been after a play. I don't feel anything from these guys. Ooh. It could have been like coin toss. It could have been after a play. I don't feel anything from these guys. Ooh, I just snatched their souls.

I just snatched their effing souls. Oh, and they know it. They know. Ooh, you know, in my mind I'm like ooh. Shame on you. But then I'm like ooh shame on you but then I'm thinking what are you going to do with it

you going to get arrogant about this you're going to keep going N plus one N plus one N plus one and that's what I did so I wanted to be so good that even if I was off

I was so much further ahead that they could say well this isn't his peak performance but it's so good that he's going to win. And I know that that was hard to digest for certain fans. It's not like you can't expect Kobe to hit 81 every game, Jordan to hit 69 every game. His off night could still win. That's what determines who's the greatest and who ain't. Your greatest is like my average. And that's what determines who's the greatest and who ain't your greatest is like my average

and that's what i did wow and a lot of people like i said it rubbed people the wrong way because i would literally go all east i'm like i'm gonna win this and people were like what i'm like so you're trying to tell me that i'm supposed to down talk myself when i've put the work in and I have the social proof. And then even fans would chime in. And I hated that because I was like, I would never tell a child or even an adult if someone said, if I said, Louis, so I hear that you're doing this business venture, this and that. Tell me about it. Oh, you shouldn't do that. But I'm sure you've heard people say, oh, you should reconsider this. Why are you telling me how to run my life? If I need to run my life?

If I need to bump my head a few times, maybe just tap me on the shoulder after I bump my head once and be like, I was going to tell you. Don't do that again, bro. Let me help you. Sure. But we live in a society where it's hard to share everything

because people are going to tell you what they feel based on their own insecurities. They're not living my life. They're not the director of my life. They're not the lead actor of my life. They're not even the co-star of my life. They ain't even the co-pilot of my life. I'm the lead.

I'm going to do what I want to do. And I've got to live with those choices and consequences. And it all worked out. It wasn't perfect, but life ain't got no rehearsal, brother. You've got to just know how to move, know how to bob and weave. And you're going to get hit. You're going to take a standing eight count. You're going to take that eight count. out of bottom weave, you know? And you're gonna get hit, you're gonna take a standing eight count. You're gonna take that eight count.

You're gonna take that time out. Because if you don't take that time out emotionally, you cannot battle physically in anything, whether it be in a relationship, business, anything. You gotta know like, okay, this is a sign that this didn't work. And yeah. And one of the other things I've learned is that you can't be a sore winner either.

Because when you're trying to do stuff to please other people so much, thinking that after you do succeed, you think that that's going to satisfy the world, it may have just pissed more people off. Right. So then you get angry because they're not giving you your respect. So I had my Kanye moment numerous times throughout my career.

Like, you ain't giving my respect. Like, but really, does that matter so much? But it did. The opinion of others, that's where the insecurity is. But then I had to dissect that. Was that one of your biggest fears? Was it fear of failure, fear of success, or fear of other people's opinions?

Well, it started off with fear of success because you know that once you attain a certain level, that becomes your new standard and anything less is, but it all kind of ties in together because once you get to this standard, people accept that. and anything less is, but it all kind of ties in together. Because once you get to this standard, people accept that. Now they may judge you even worse.

Your bullies actually, the people that talk the most trash, I call them bullies. And how did you learn to really overcome the bullying or the opinions or the judgments of so many people? Just keep working. Whatever I had to say to myself, if I had to curse them out in my mind, I did.

Fortunately for me, I had the gym to use as a profession. It's not like everybody else where they have to go back in that boardroom and stuff like that. A little different. I had the weight. You could get it all out. I could literally get it all out. And that was my job.

So it's not like I could go do this for an hour and then make it three hours if I wanted to. A CEO of a company can only make it maybe an hour and then they still got to handle that board meeting and stuff but i think what coexists is um making sure that you got it out in that period of time yeah so then you don't hold on to it so much because it will make you a sore winner and you won't deliver your message because it'll mess with that frequency of your voice. And because real ones can see, oh man, he's hurting. That's why he's lashing out on Twitter or Facebook, this and that.

There's something different with him. He's smiling, but he's not happy. And I would look at some of my old pictures and I would realize there's many years where I, yeah. I thought I was happy, but I was masking it. Mask my divorce, mask getting screwed over in business mask, mask, mask dad dying, stepmom dying

still winning during those years though so when you win in I just label things that happen to everybody but I still had to be the best in the world it's not for me to do this it's for the fact that I knew what I was dealing with and I'm like, and even now I'm like,

how the hell did you do that? Because I have to speak to people about these things. I focused on winning. A lot of people think that winning is such a bad thing. When the chips are down, man, there's winners and losers, man. That's it. And everybody's got a gift to themselves to the world man and you give yourself an opportunity to be successful by understanding that it will rain but it also will shine the sun will come out eventually man like

it but if you're in a dark place man be be light. Yeah. I can't be my own light being negative all the time. You can only go so far with that. Now, I'm the first one to raise his hand, both hands, and say, using the dark side is dope. But at some point, even Darth Vader realized he was Anakin, man, and he didn't like it. He didn't like it at the very end, though. I'm fortunate to realize that there's a time and place for that, dark side.

I had to mature and to understand that it's always, it's still within me. I can transfer this into business, into everything I put my mind to

based on my experiences but I can do it much my experiences but I can do it much more mature and I can do it with a heart of knowing that I just love people. The reason why

I competed so hard is because I really loved people. I still do because I realize if someone was to make a mural of me that means that they

love this physique so much that they actually this is not their physique. These are not like, just like some stick figures that they're doing. This is like real, like 30 foot murals in different countries and stuff that I can show you online.

Like, what the heck? This person put a lot of time and effort, his own resources, her own resources. People, like I said, the tattoos and stuff like that.

Wait a minute. This is inspirational. I want people to aspire to be like this not like me but like to want better for their own life you know

you talk about the school of greatness everybody can be great yeah but when you're hungry for greatness that's one thing man I've been starving

for greatness there's a difference yeah see so before you decide to use that that's mine yeah

but it is it's one thing to be hungry everybody's been hungry uh huh See, so before you decide to use that, that's mine. But it is. It's one thing to be hungry. Everybody's been hungry. It's different when you're starving. Why were you starving? What made you have that? Because I wanted to win. I knew what it felt like.

Whether it be an A grade on a test. Excellence is excellence. Break down how does it feel to do things the right way. Does it feel good or not it feels good when you run through a marathon people there's some people that run through the finish line and there's that one person they look like they're dying yeah and they crawl through that finish line there's always the one person it felt like they were dying and they still finished and within an hour they it's not that they can do it again,

but they could probably run 400 meters if they really had to. I hated running the 400 meters. I was a one in the deuce, that's it. When I had to run that four by four in high school, I hated. I hated when I puked every time. But okay, so you puked.

30 minutes later, oh, let's go for burgers. You know what I mean? But what did that feel like to cross the line? That's life. It's gonna hurt, it's gonna hurt like hell. You're gonna wanna pass out during the squats. That's why I always tell people, if I were to say, hey, let's go train arms or chest,

everybody sign up. Train legs or maybe back especially legs oh man the wife and the kid you know like it's gonna take too much time and I want to slow you down Phil but what changed mm-hmm negative belief yeah you asked me to go boxing tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. I might have to do it just because it's something different. Sure. Try it out. I mean, I'm going to be a novice.

Yeah. I might fall in love with this. Maybe this is a sign that I should do it or not. But you don't know what you don't know. Absolutely. And I think variety is the spice of life, man. Absolutely, man. And you have to ask yourself, so why?

Because I'm not good enough. I look stupid. He's better. What are they going to think? Okay, we just said all kind of negative stuff. Let's talk about the positives. I get good cardio from this. I get to learn a new skill.

I get to have a moment with someone I just met. This could turn into a new hobby that I can actually afford. And like I said, I said a useful skill that could turn into something more relatable because I'm meeting all other type of athletes. And I could say, man, you can't bodybuild and I can't box, but man, we could talk about, you know, and it's just another conversation. It's like when you learn a new box, but man, we could talk about, you know. And it's just another conversation. It's like when you learn a new language, you learn a little bit of here, a little bit of there.

Why not just learn a little bit here, a little bit there. And I have to say, sitting here with you, I really appreciate it because I know you get to meet a lot of different types of people. I'm curious, what would you say is the greatest mental skill that you developed? Whether it was in the gym training, whether it was visualizing at night when you're thinking about, you know, the events you're going to compete at, was it the strategy, was it the nutrition game,

was it the ability to not feel any pain or go beyond the pain and just do rep after rep, even when you knew you're just ripping your muscles? What was that the greatest skill that you developed? Was it a belief in yourself? I wasn't afraid of myself. I wasn't afraid of myself, meaning I decided to put no limitations on myself. That really summarizes everything, right?

I would still go to amateur bodybuilding shows. Obviously, Iizes everything, right? Like, I would still go to amateur bodybuilding shows. You know, obviously I would do guest appearances and stuff, but I'd still go to the pre-show and watch people.

What do you learn? From amateurs. This guy's a really good poser. Maybe I should try that. I never heard about this diet. Maybe I should try that in the off-season. Hmm.

And I get to travel around the world. So I get to do seminars and that, talk about what I believe. But then I, you know, I start being able to meet with different doctors. I think my willingness to try new things, especially on the recovery side, because I knew that if I could recover faster, smarter than everybody else, I could have more frequency of training. So if you can't recover in bodybuilding, forget it.

I mean, we put people through workout like, oh, I'm too sore to go back the next day. It's like, but what if I could teach you how to recover faster? So I learned that. So I knew how to recover faster. And then obviously, I enjoyed hurting people's feelings.

How so? Just by dominating? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a road game. You know the feeling, man. Just blow them out by 30. Just blow them out.

Yeah. And I'm just being honest. It felt awesome to know that I had that much rent in their head. I would screw with people so bad as far as the competitors. And maybe, I guess we should ask them, but I would train multiple times a day. But I wouldn't put it on social media of me showing you that I'm training, but I'd show you that I'm there. So if you're over in Italy, Egypt, whatever, I'm training at 10 p.m. Mountain Standard Time.

You're just not waking up or you're just getting your day going. Phil's already in the gym. When you go to sleep, Phil's in the gym. Just messing with people all day long. All day long because I have keys to the gym. Wow. So I was just relentless in my approach.

And if you showed signs of weakness, I was going to expose gym. Wow. So I was just relentless in my approach. And if you showed signs of weakness, I was going to expose it. Wow. But I was humble enough to know that if you, like you talk about boxing. So like if a person has a good, you know, jab that you know how to stay away from it, you try to neutralize that opponent's strategy, especially their strengths. So then they have to deal with yours. Yes. And you minimize your weaknesses at the same time. So bodybuilding is the same thing. You have big legs. I don't have as big legs. It doesn't mean I have to have them bigger than yours. Maybe I can find out what I'm really good at. For me, I was always good at very good conditioning and I had more bubbly, like rounder physique. So therefore I didn't have to get 300 pounds in the off season. I could be 270

off season, but I could look bigger than everybody else when I stood next to them. At 270 off-season. And then pre-contest, I would be 240, 245. They would be 300 pounds. Holy cow. 280 pounds. I still beat them. How?

Because I focused on the shape. I focused on what I was really good at. See, they were so concerned with being the biggest person. Size, yeah. And they didn't allow themselves see they didn't allow themselves to adopt a different philosophy they didn't even try by the time they tried it was too late because now they're asking their body to do something last minute i was like nah man you guys should just focus on being conditioned and see where see where it goes so i was always willing

to um listen to myself not listen to others But my greatest strength was just my competitive spirit. I think ultimately I just raised everybody's game level. If they said that I didn't, then they're lying. But I've had people on record say that when we knew that Phil Heath was coming back in 2020, we stepped up. We stepped up our game. We're in the gym a couple more times a day. And even the fans knew.

If Phil comes back man like you know and that's good to know because we so it's really good to know that you get people to believe in your own expectations too

they may not have believed at first but then they they believe in your standards yeah because you're gonna prove it it's one thing to like run your mouth

and not have the goods. Yeah. You got the goods. Oh no. Look at this. Uh-huh. Larry Bird did it. Jordan did it.

Everybody did it. Usain Bolt. Yeah, man. I'm like, no. There is no way. You, you worked too hard to get there. you hey if you didn't bring it

man such for you michael felt splashing the water yeah he letting them know better brought you lunch man if you ain't ready if you're not for peak top performance if this isn't the the best of your life oh man you just got a front row seat to watching me do it. To watching me do it. My whole goal was letting people know who the hell I am, giving them a show. But then in life, I should be able to transition and take that, knowing who I am. If I'm a public speaker, I got to know who the hell I am to convey a message. I got to be willing to write down notes, review film of myself.

How was my body language? Oh, maybe I cursed too much. Maybe I said this too many times. Maybe I said, uh, or the, maybe I wasn't comfortable. What was going on that day? Oh, you got a bad phone call, this and that and the other. Or you lost a business deal. Well, that, let me readjust. See, I looked at every posing routine that I've

ever done and I normally wear the same color of trunks every year just so I could compare. I even micromanaged every posing that I did getting ready for the show. I would get on the scale. But I'd also have the food diary of what I ate. What I also trained. Because let's say 10 weeks after the Mr. Olympia, last year, I was 260 pounds or 270 pounds. Let's say I was 270 pounds 10 weeks out. But my chest looks flat. Did I look at my diet?

And look at what I trained the day before or the day of? Maybe my chest is flat because I just trained legs and my legs look bigger than 10 weeks out the previous year because it was flip-flopped. See, I micromanaged everything

because you're going to have this self-doubt. It's like when, I remember Tim Grover saying this, like he counted how many steps Michael Jordan took in a practice and different points on the floor and this and that. Yes, that matters. That is the 0.1% that one must take.

Sales guy, how many phone calls did you actually make? Yes. How long did you hem and haw on the phone with someone that was already sold? That you could have said, all right, Louis, that's cool, man. We'll chat later. I got some more calls to make, man. I know you got got things to do give the wife and kid hug and kiss but if i spend too much time with you i'm not i could have less productivity yeah so all of this stuff matters so i was always about going all out, reinventing everything,

but understanding when you talk about lifting, like, oh, you gotta put on the music, this and that and the other, but were you really feeling it though? Were you feeling every rep the best that you could? Maybe not, maybe not, but maybe you got through the set. Okay, well, I can shoot two free throws, but I ain't Steph Curry.

There's a difference. I can shoot 10 free throws, but I ain't Steph Curry. There's a difference. I can shoot them. We can all shoot them. But can we make 10 out of 10? Or I'm sure Steph Curry could probably make 100 out of 100 or 99 out of 100. If you give him an opportunity, I'd probably make 75, 80.

There's a difference. Break down the mechanics. Am I confident? Break everything down. So I have to now do that in business as an entrepreneur. I have to do it continuously in my current relationship. I've been married before, so that didn't work. So let's break that down.

I've conquered certain things with that. Immaturity, this and that, lack of communication, lack of accountability, lack, lack, lack. Also acknowledge the good stuff, but what can I learn from this and actually learn from it now that I'm in a new relationship? Because I can't ruin this one. Because now the common denominator is me. But how many people are open to criticism? Feedback. But own self-accountability. when you talk about like like david

goggins a huge fan of his i love that guy i gotta meet him someday yeah he's great accountability mirrors are important man what do you say to yourself in the morning what do you say every time self-talk is so freaking important you live in a world where man stuff is messed up things on the phone will make you doubt who the hell you are you're comparing your life to strangers non-stop based on something that you saw

that you can't quantify if that's real or not oh but he's on a yacht in the snap but man that's his friend's yacht that's his friend's car or maybe he's money a yacht in this net. But man, that's his friend's yacht. That's his friend's car. Or maybe he's money laundering. Who knows?

You don't know. You don't know what he's doing. Maybe he's doing it right. Take the characteristics of how he really got there, how she got there. Maybe start digging that out. And if you can't find anything from that, maybe they are a fraud. You can probably figure it out pretty quick. Sure.

But we have to be better concerning and discerning individuals to figure those things out. So true. Discernment is key, man. What's the thing you're most excited about now? You mentioned this documentary. What are you doing now and this new chapter, this kind of like what you're creating in your life? My

goal with the documentary that'll be released later this year. That's exciting. Where's that going? so that's the cool part is that the cool part is that I've never had an opportunity to have it be with someone like a Danny Garcia and Dwayne Johnson they're awesome to have more eyeballs from like Netflix ESPN and NBC Universal is just's just amazing. It's such a good blessing to have people that are very interested in purchasing this. So we are very excited to unveil this at a film festival here later this year.

Wow. I want to come watch it. We are definitely pumped for that. Obviously, it's something of my life's work. It talks about a lot of the things that we discussed here in more depth and you get to see it rather just to hear it. I'm very happy about it

because it's about me as a human being, not just a bodybuilder. And I enjoyed filming that. That produces so many other things, obviously, entrepreneurship. You know, I'm looking into different endeavors, whether it be in supplements, clothing, stuff like that. I'm working with various brands at the moment. And I'm actually considering, you know, being a part of the Olympia

in a different way, whether it be on stage as a commentator or actually maybe not competing, but maybe giving back in a certain way. I actually got with a company who I'm partnered with. It's a hormone clinic that actually our mission, well, I went with them because I had COVID pneumonia and I needed to get that blood work done to make sure that my blood cell counts and all that stuff were intact and liver, kidney enzymes were intact. There was a lot of death in the sport.

In bodybuilding. In bodybuilding over the last couple of years. Really? Over 40. 40 people died. The guy that beat me in 2018, Sean Roden, passed last year. So I had to go on tour with a lot of these guys and meet their families.

I always say you don't know what you don't know. Where are the deaths coming from? We don't know. So you could say it's anabolic steroid use, right? You could easily say that. That's the first thing someone's going to say. Well, it could be a combination of that. It could be a combination of, you know,

were they just too big during their off season? Because if you're 300 pounds, you're 300 pounds. I don't care if you're muscular. It's a lot on your organs. Exactly. Joints, organs, everything. And then are you really getting a physical? Every woman that watches this gets a yearly. How many men get a year? Unless you're playing college sports, you know, and when I say yearly, like yearly physical, real physical,

right? I'm 42 years old. I raised my hand saying I didn't get my prostate exam. They probably should go do that. You should probably get routine blood work. And then I thought, well, okay, if you're not going to compete this year, what can you do to help the sport that you love? Get with a company that will help provide blood work for athletes. Not to make it mandatory, but to give them an option because you've got choices and consequences, right? So you could say, well, these athletes, maybe not, maybe they feel like they can't afford it. Maybe they're just scared to do it.

But maybe they need to hear from someone like myself. So using my platform and actually getting with a company that I can actually speak to, and that's the beautiful part about being who I am. I can actually sit down with CEOs and actually have dialogue and ask questions. And one of the questions was, would you guys be interested in partnering up with the Olympia and whoever qualifies for the Olympia, maybe we give them a discount or a free blood plan. Just so they know certain things. And if they wanted to get it done repeatedly throughout their

prep, they can. So in the event that there was a marker that is out of whack, at least you're informed. You can catch it hopefully early. You can catch it early on. If you're a female that says, you know what, at least you're informed. You can catch it hopefully early. You can catch it early on. If you're a female that says, you know what, I want to have kids, you catch it early on.

Now you know. So it's all about gift giving. I could easily just say, oh, yeah, I work with this hormone clinic and I'm on testosterone just to keep myself going and feeling energized and this and that. Or I could say, you know what? I want health benefits for athletes. I want to make sure that we don't see death.

I want to make sure that these guys and girls are doing things in a more healthier way. And if they don't have, because not every pro is making a ton of money. See, so, and maybe they don't have those resources available to them. If I can bring them those resources through what I've accomplished, then that's not for me to be on some pedestal. have those resources available to them. If I can bring them those resources through what I've accomplished,

then that's not for me to be on some pedestal, that's for me to share. That's for me to say, don't worry, you're gonna be okay, because I'm very thankful that I'm 42 years young. And I get my blood work done every three, four months. I know what's out of whack, I know how to adjust it. The beautiful thing about being a competitive bodybuilder

is that you do know how food works. You know how PEDs work. You know how everything works. But it's about having a certain type of understanding that you can just sleep well at night. So that's another endeavor that I'm very excited about and a ton of other things. Overall, my goal is to be a man of service no matter what. And whether you're a competitor, whether you're just a person that's just wanting to look good,

to feel great, have the confidence. Sure. Look, no further. I'm your guy. I'm your guy that will visit with you. No shout, no shade to any other professional athlete, but I'm more accessible. Sure, sure.

I can go to a local gym. We don't have like professional training facilities that only we can go to. Yeah. I can go to a local gym. I'm around. You can ask me a question. And this is about your life.

I used to drive to the gym and I'd cut through this cemetery to get there a little faster. And I remember having the guys from Flex Magazine Muscle Fitness with me in the car and they're like, why are you talking about this? And I said, everybody's going there. Everybody.

You see people embracing each other see people crying see people laughing you see people celebrating you see people I mean mourning hard and I have an opportunity to do something that I never thought I could do growing up I have a privilege of being a professional at something where I get paid a lot of money and I get to now share my experiences with people. I'm working toward that. I'm working toward if something, one day I'm going to be in the dirt

or be in the ocean or whatever. What will people, oh man. Holy smokes. Son, come here. Grandson, come here. what will people oh man holy smokes son come here grandson come here this man right here changed my life this is Phil Heath

well who's Phil Heath well he's seven times Olympia but it wasn't even about that I met him at a store and he was signing

autographs and he talked to you he held you when you were a kid took a picture with you that's cool I'll show you too when you get home

I can't believe he's buried next to grandpa I look forward to that because I get to meet so many people so I want to meet everybody this world better open up and this better stay open

I know that it's where to hug everyone I have to I want to cry with them I really do because I know right now people are dealing with

so much pain so much adversity and so much uncertainty young men grown men need strong men and so much uncertainty. Young men, grown men need strong men. Because the world is messed up. But it always has.

But I just feel like right now, like if I don't speak up, if I don't have these moments, if I don't put myself out there, if I don't let people see me, hear me, say it's okay, I'm going to meet people this weekend. I want them all to just, I didn't even people see me, hear me, say it's okay. I'm going to meet people this weekend. I want them all to just, I didn't even bring an autograph.

I brought no merch. People were like, why are you bringing merch? My team were like, why are you bringing merch? Because I'll be too busy selling merch. Just want to say hi to people. I just want to hang out. I'll have the same, I even told the organizer, you don't have to give me this massive booth.

Just give me a stand. Say hi to people. I just want to say hi. Because you can say hi to people. I just wanna say hi. Because you can buy stuff another time. I actually took everything offline. Because I just, I needed time to just recalibrate everything. And this is what I like. I love competing, but I love meeting people.

Anyone that is lined up to meet me at an event will probably tell you the same story, which is it didn't matter what you look like. It didn't matter if you were buying something or not. I gave you my time. And I want to continue to do that. Now, I know I only have so much time to give, but I'm going to give it. I will give you my time because I love to talk and I love to hang out with people. And I know everybody has a story.

And I don't want everybody, I don't want people to feel like they're alone. I don't want people to feel like, oh, this guy has this big ass exterior and he has no depth. Or they have all these questions and they're afraid to ask. It could be the dumbest question in the world. It could be the most common question in the world. I'm going to give you my time. Yeah. And I think that's something that people need. Because I

have to finish this back nine of my personal golf course strong. I got to do it, man. Because I know without focusing on money, there's enlightenment that awaits. And my future self depends on how I stay in gratitude during these moments in time. Absolutely, man. My future self depends on how I handle the good, the bad, and the freaking ugly. And how much personal work am I willing to do? I literally have had to make some nasty, not, I shouldn't say nasty, I was gonna say nasty phone calls,

but I hated confrontation. I hate it with friends, family, et cetera. I've had to make those phone calls. That's good, man. I guess you're growing. And just confront and say, this hurt me. Or if I hurt you, I didn't know. And I'm apologizing for that.

I can't go back and change it, though. But I can change who I am today. And I have done that. And if you feel that great, if you don't, case or else, you're up, man. I got to keep going, though. Yeah, of course. It's good chatting with you, and I got to go.

I got more things to do. Overall, brother, I just want to continue to impact this world. I just want to do it in a different space. I don't want to have to wear posing trunks to do it in a different space I don't want to have to wear posing trunks to do it you know what I'm saying I love it man

yeah man I'm excited to watch the documentary wherever it comes out oh yeah whether at the film festival or on a streamer or wherever it is

on TV in the movies you've got amazing content man I love your inspiring content on Instagram people can check you out your inspiring content on Instagram. People can check you out there. Phil Heath on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all the places, YouTube as well. This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths. Okay. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's your last day on earth, many years away. You live as long as you

want to live. You accomplish everything in the back nine, maybe go 18 more rounds, whatever it is. And you live a beautiful rest of your life. But for whatever reason, everything you create, all your content, your information, the videos of you, social media, this interview, it's gone. It goes to another place. So when you go, all your information goes with you. No one has access to it anymore. But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world. Three things that you know to be true from all of your experiences that you would leave behind as your lessons. And this is all we would have. What would you say are yours, Phil?

Three truths from you. Be as vulnerable as you can with yourself and with the people who you love. Learn from every mistake and always have faith in yourself. I love those, man. I got one final question for you, Phil, but before I ask it, I want to acknowledge you, man. It's been a pleasure to connect with you here

and to see someone who is the epitome of a strong masculine man be vulnerable. You know, you haven't had a perfect life and you've made mistakes and things. No one's perfect, but you are the image literally on covers of every magazine of what it means to be the biggest, strongest, most masculine man in today's society. Right. Projected, right? Winning the Mr. Olympia seven times in a row, all these different things. And yet you show up with a vulnerable service-based heart.

And I really appreciate and acknowledge that from you. And thank you so much. Sharing how to be okay with yourself as a man when you lose or when you get second place or third place that it's not the end of the world that it's just a lesson and there's another there's another element for you to grow from that so i really acknowledge your journey your growth your incredible success and where you're at now in your life man it's really beautiful yeah and i'm excited to see what you create moving forward i am too and i just want to tell you, it's a real honor and privilege to be here with you and share this time.

Because, you know, I think timing is everything. We could have done this years ago and not have the same interaction, right? And I definitely was not in the same space. So I always look at these moments of saying thank you because you allowed me a safe space to be that way. Yeah, of course, man. And that says a lot about you as a human being because in order to get that out of me, you have to have a good heart. Yeah. So I appreciate that very much.

And I wish you all the best as well because, you know, life throws you a lot of curveballs, brother. But you can step in the batter's box and take a freaking swing, man. Absolutely, man. I know you're doing it. And I wish you nothing but success. But most importantly, just that confidence of knowing that you're giving it everything you've got. Yeah. That you can want more.

And I know you already have it, but it's just like you want more. Because I want people like yourself to elevate. Because when you're friends with people or you look at people like yourself to me i'm like i like what he's doing proximity is everything yeah i want to be affiliated with real people that are doing yeah that want more though uh-huh and i know you want a ton more of course man and i love just getting started that's what i'm saying you're just getting started saying it's like i just want to see it because of course how cool would that be of allowing like this space and time and you've met a ton of people yeah you can only be so-called friends with so many people but just to know like

over what 1300 episodes and stuff i look at that and i tell myself why not me and why not right now yeah of course i have that van halen right now yeah right now it's good can't wait for tomorrow yep right now come on it's everything yeah right i'm gonna probably have to come out to that next time that's good that's good man because because think about it right now and right now you're doing this. Right now we're having this two masculine dudes like talking about stuff that really impacts our lives and other people's lives. And I just pray to God that people receive this as well as they can.

Of course, man. I just want to tell you thanks, bro. Of course, man. I appreciate it, man. I got your back. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? Ooh.

How you impact other people's lives to do great things. I believe in a higher power. I believe in God. So he gave me a lot of cool things. But in order for him to be happy, I had to use it. Yeah. And I gave him all the glory because I have used a lot of it. I've messed up a lot but you know I continue

to work harder just to show him that you know you gave me a lot of great things and I didn't waste it but I feel like I have an opportunity to give people something to maybe it's just a reminder of who the hell they are yeah and go after it but just having that will to to go after it when the chips are down and having that journey and that story of triumph, that's what develops greatness. You have to go through it. It ain't going to be perfect.

In order to be great at something, you must learn how to deal with the crap. And it ain't the same crap as your crap. Mine is different. And you're in a different phase in your life than I'm in in my life. Therefore, I can't compare. You have to strive for your own personal greatness in everything you do. And that requires vulnerability.

That requires a heavy faith-based system, in my opinion. And you just, in order to overcome fear, you have to become freaking fearless and be okay with just knowing who the hell you are and say it. It's okay to be great. It's okay to say it. We did it this big. I'm going to be the best soccer player. I'm going to be the best lawyer. I'm going to be the best.

And it stopped at 13. It definitely stopped at 18. It stopped at 30 because people stopped asking you. Don't worry about everybody asking you. You tell yourself, I'm here to be great. I am not here to blend in. That is lame. I'm here to stand out. Because when I stand out, When I stand out, I know in my heart that I gave it my all and I became great based on caring about my dreams and creating reality and knowing that life has to suck. When I go through stuff, I'm like, ooh, this burn, this hurts. What's on the other side of that pain greatness that's it man that's it man there you go yeah my man phil yes sir the gift the gift keeps on giving you know i appreciate it man

thank you so much for listening i hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.