The School of Greatness - Gene Simmons Opens Up: Coming To America With Nothing, The Mindset That Built An Empire & The Man Behind The Makeup

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!When Gene Simmons tells me about surviving concentration camps through his mother's courage, I realize this isn't just another rock star story—it's an American dream forged in fire. The KISS frontman takes me on a journey from a Hungarian refugee who couldn't speak English to building one of the most recognizable brands on earth, more famous than Mount Rushmore itself. What strikes me most is his raw honesty about the price of success, from decades of reckless behavior to finally learning commitment at 62, and his mother's fearless escape to America that taught him the work ethic that built an empire. This conversation reveals how an outsider's perspective, unshakeable self-belief, and relentless pursuit of excellence transformed a poor immigrant kid into the demon who redefined what it means to be a rock star.Gene’s websiteIn this episode you will learn:Why feeling like an outsider became Gene's greatest advantage in building a global brandHow watching The Beatles on TV at 13 sparked a revolution that led to stadium domination in 18 monthsThe exact mindset shift that turned Gene from victim to victor in every situationWhy Gene believes the hunt for greatness matters more than achieving itHow to build unshakeable confidence that makes others want to follow youFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1780For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Jon Bon Jovi – greatness.lnk.to/1608SCMatthew McConaughey  – greatness.lnk.to/1022SCTeddy Swims – greatness.lnk.to/1611SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Did you ever doubt yourself? Oh hell no. I know that I'm not the best looking gun in the world or the smartest or anything, but I will walk into any room and I will walk out with your girlfriend. There's no doubt in my mind. Simmons and Kiss revolutionized rock in the 1970s and 80s.

One of the most influential rock bands of all time. 30 gold records, 14 platinum records. Kiss, Gene Simmons. Don't ever take from anybody. Just roll up your sleeves and go to work. Wow. What do all great champions do? They psych themselves up. I'm gonna win it. I am the champion. I am the greatest. I heard Muhammad Ali doing that. I never heard a human being talk like that publicly. Like who is this guy? Actually he was stating fact.

It's our problem that we thought, well you're not supposed to say that. Why not? Why not set greatness in front of you and then work towards achieving it? Yeah, that's true. What have you learned about fame that you wish everyone knew?

If you become famous. If you become famous. And I heard an interesting story, or a very powerful story, that when you and your mother were trying to get to America and trying to come here and migrate to America, what was the lesson you learned from your mom and the courage to get over? My father had gone so the provider was no longer there because my mother stayed at home while he worked. So once my father left, my mother was forced to go out there and you know, while I

went to school. So when I come home from school at three, four, whatever it is in the afternoon, I went to school. So when I'd come home from school at three, four, whatever it is in the afternoon, I was alone at six, seven years of age and you know, would cry myself to sleep because my mother would work until late at night, six days out of the week. There was no such thing as five days, two days off. And in Israel, it's the Sabbath, Saturday that you take off. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army.

And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. And I was in the army. America. So they and they already came to America. Yes, right before World War Two.

My mother and my father went to Israel in 1949. And both brothers had already started working in America. And the stories I could tell you about my uncle George, until the day he passed, he loved Wonder Bread. In those days, you could for 29 cents, you could buy a whole loaf, he would buy a whole loaf with water and sit in a park bench in Central Park. And to him, it was like eating cake from kings. He would just eat the bread and drink water. Because you didn't have it in Europe.

There was barely any. The fact that he could eat an entire loaf of bread by himself and nobody would kill him to get a slice of bread was a was beyond anything because Europe never really recovered from the 1929 stock market crash people were killing each other all the time and in concentration camps if you had a loaf of bread They'd kill you for that. It's a different world. In America, the land of plenty, even during World War II, people ate, we grew wheat. So her brothers were already here.

And successful. And successful, so they said, hey, you come over and stay with us? That's right. That's exactly right. Was it that easy to kind of leave the know, lead the country at that time? So when my mother came to America, she had to work, you know, the whole time. And I was, I remember going into my uncle Larry's house and they had their own house

with a basement. I mean, I just couldn't, and you'd look out the door and they were paved streets and cars going everywhere and people were fat and I never saw a refrigerator I mean we had an eye we had a box and if you had a piece of ice it stuck it in there So you can have milk by the way not branded they'd give you a sheet of Newspaper and your week's piece of meat and your week's butter and you bought that there was a new country. There was nothing There are no stores people can't fathom that i remember all that and i remember

just everything was new you know you have branding cups and and canned food i never saw canned food until i got our first till we got our first care package from the UN and we opened up the box. And there was a get choked up with it. And there was a can of peaches. And I never saw a cat. I know people are going to think, well, he's exaggerating. No, I never saw a cat of food. There were no supermarkets or grocery stores, nothing. You lived in hills. And I remember taking the can and there were full color picture of peaches dripping, you know, with the stuff.

And I remember at about seven years of age looking at it and my mother, you know, grabbed that out of my hand and she took a big rock. It's no such thing as can openers and she put it on the ground and banged into it and then peeled back the metal. So the sharp stuff was going there and she gave it into my hands and my little hands grabbed it and I looked and saw the yellow peaches inside. And my mother said, you know, in Hungarian, because I spoke Hungarian, Hebrew, Turkish, Spanish and those stuff.

And I remember tasting it and I, sorry, I'm getting a little for climbed here. Never tasted anything. I still tasted. Never tasted anything so sweet or anything and I wanted to show my mother and she was like we were just amazed at this thing and and the fact that this

and it also had a Bugs Bunny book colored with these going down the road and all that. I didn't never heard of Bugs Bunny and a sweater that was all torn. I was reading a book colored with these going down the road and all that. I didn't never heard of Bugs Bunny. And a sweater that was all torn, my mother put it on me and it was all too big, but it was colorful and all that.

And my mother would read me the same Bugs Bunny book every night, but she had to make up the words in Hungarian because she couldn't speak Hebrew. And the words were in English, so she'd make it up. And I'd just to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with

her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with her and I would go to sleep with night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was in the middle of the night and I was and send it to kids in need. Originally through the Christian Child Fund and then became the Child Fund and I to this day support 1,400 kids in Africa who if they don't go to school, won't get clothes and won't get fed. That means you'll starve because there's nothing there, Zambia. You come to school, you get fed and stuff, so

it teaches you that school has it. So I got lost. What was the question? Well really about like your experience when you got to America, you never saw anything like this before. You never experienced the taste, the foods, the refrigerator, all these things. I was in the kitchen with my aunt Magda who herself survived the camps and had some problems and she married my uncle Larry who was my mother's brother and we go into the kitchen because there was always another room there were bedrooms and like a palace you can't believe and there's this big white box or something and a metal thing and my aunt Magda opened it and I was, you know, I was a little kid. I never saw anything like it. And it's just food. There's wrappers and food and cheese and things that pick it on the side. I'll never forget it. My aunt Magda, I was attracted to the red because it was a jar of red.

I later remembered it was schmuckers with a name like that. It's got to be good. It's schmuckers jelly out of Ohio. And my mother said to me in Hungarian, you know, have some. And my aunt Magda opened the camp. I'd never seen that before. You don't understand. In Israel, they'd give you a slab of whatever butter, never jelly. And that would be it for the week. You'd have to make it. There was no refrigeration or anything. So my aunt Magda gave me a spoon. And in broken Hebrew, she must have said, taste it. Because she was fascinated that I didn't, wasn't quite sure what it was. I'm only halting because if you weren't here,

I'd start bawling. And I thought she said, eat it. Because she gave me a spoon. So I started like a Christmas goose. I just started my mouth full of jam I started eating it because she gave me a spoon. So I started like a Christmas goose. I just started my mouth full of jam with the jam falling off, you know, just eating it because I never tasted anything like that,

the entire jar. And both my mother and my aunt Magda were laughing so much, you know, they were in tears and I didn't know what was going on. I was just like, this is the best thing I ever had. And America just kept... And then I was afraid of crossing... I still have the marbles. I was afraid of crossing the street because cars were going by. You know, people crawling... I didn't understand it. So I walked around the block and I saw other houses next to each other. I said, this is like, where are all these houses?

He says, everybody's rich. Yeah, everybody's rich. And I went to the other side of the street and then I had to come back and went a little further than eventually went around. I thought if I went around, I'd get lost. I didn't know that came around to this. I know it sounds strange. And on the other side eventually,

I saw some guys playing marbles on the grass, which would be, I don't know if you have a marble or something, well, whatever. And they're throwing it like this. It's not what we did in Israel. You stood up on two legs and you went like that. And you get really good, because you can aim it on the ground

if you do the marbles like that. You know, the ground would make the marble nothing. And what are you stupid? Can't you speak English? I know, I don't know that good. I got as an idiot. I play, I play, they go, yeah, here. They gave me a marble or two.

I won all their marbles. They didn't laugh for long. Yeah. I still have all the marbles. They didn't laugh for long. Yeah. I still have all the marbles I won, about 80 of them. Really? In an old Dutch masters cigar box. That's cool. To remind me, don't ever take from anybody.

Just roll up your sleeves and go to work. Wow. Make them work for you. How did that make you feel though? When you didn't speak the language, you didn't have any friends, and you're not going to be able to do it. Just roll up your sleeves and go to work. Wow. Make them work for you. How did that make you feel though when you didn't speak the language, you didn't have any friends,

when you came to America, you're in this new world. How did that make you feel? Were you more excited or more scared? I've never been scared. Not after my mother survived Nazi Germany, but I've always felt like an outsider. I still don't feel like an outsider. Maybe that's okay. Maybe I want to be like everybody else.

I want to be an ordinary guy. No, I don't want to be an ordinary guy. I want to be an extraordinary guy. I want to excel at anything that I try to do and I'm willing to work harder than you do. And the only thing that prevented me from getting into sports and everything else is because the pragmatism in me tells me that you've got a short life.

When you enter sports or things like that, if you get an ankle, you're done. But I can be a banker or a lawyer or a teacher thing forever. It made more sense and therefore more dollars. Yes. If you're lucky, there's every kid in every poor neighborhood wants to be the baseball player or the football player and stuff more dollars. Yes. If you're lucky, because every kid in every poor neighborhood wants to be the baseball player or the football player and stuff like that. Cause they 50 million, Carmelo Anthony made it. And for a while I worked with Carmel. They make all this money. You don't see the tens of thousands and millions of carcasses on the side of the road that wanted to this and put all their eggs in one basket and achieve nothing. You only see you know the tip of

the ice bowl. Yeah, yeah, the winners. Oh, that means anybody can do it. That's a fallacy when you so when did music start to come into your life? Because I heard a story that you saw the Beatles on TV when you were 13 was music something you were interested in before then or did that open your mind to a world of oh dreaming that maybe I could be this one day? I didn't put the two and two equals four thing together. I was more an observer on life because in America there was so many attention deficit disorder. There's so many different things going I was a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very

very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very pretty sure it was the Ed Sullivan show. Unlike any show that's ever been on TV. At that time, in 1963, 64, population of America was 170 million people, about that. Now it's doubled that, it's 330 million. And the Ed Sullivan show was so big, they had pooping elephants and comedians and puppet guys and, you know, one rock band for the kids.

And I remember coming home from work and my mother got one of those TV dinners. People have no idea what that is. But you buy them frozen because poor mom had to go work. She could. And it was like this kind of like old shoes crunched into like burgers, their peas and some mashed potatoes and you pour the gravy and that was it. I didn't know anything. I liked it. So I was eating it and ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles, and I'm going, what is that? By the way, I've met the biggest stars in the world,

especially musicians, they all point to that pivotal moment. Scientists call it a singularity. All of a sudden these feminine looking guys with hair over their ears, because in those days, even shorter than your hair, you'd see the meat between the ear and the hairline above it, or like crew cuts. And these guys talk like that. You know, I work my fingers to the belt. What is that? And they're small

compared to Ed Sullivan and everything. Kind of feminine in a way, because Americans were bigger and fatter and stuff. And these guys were all, you know, like bone thin and spoke strangely. I didn't understand. I was watching and I thought, gee, they look weird. And I remember my mother coming in and saying, gee, I think they look weird. And bango. At that moment, I said, no, they're cool. Because my mother thinks they're weird. You want your own thing. You don't wanna do Lawrence Welk. You never heard of Lawrence Welk? Oh my God, kill me now. Oh man.

Lawrence Welk was on every Sunday and it was mom and dad music. Okay. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Got you, boy. And now we're going to do the polka. Yeah. So since your mom said it was weird,

and you were like, that's cool then. Right. Uh-huh. And it's different, and different is better than. It's good. Yeah, different is good. But you were, I mean, you're a branding and marketing genius when it comes with.

That word genius is not right. I've been careful, so I win. Well, you've been a branding and marketing master studying and executing it. Yeah, at studying and executing how to brand yourself. I mean, your book, Me, Inc. You built a personal brand before personal branding was a thing.

You studied how to be unique and different from seeing the Beatles and other people, I'm assuming. Well, more specifically, how to beat Disney without the overhead. But it's not as difficult as people think it is because, unlike other countries, all information is available for free to anyone who wants to put in the time. And it was called, it's the House of God, otherwise known as the Library. Don't forget that second R in the middle. It's not library, it's the house of God, otherwise known as the library. Don't forget that second R in the middle. It's not the library, it's library. And I used to go to

the library every day after yeshiva. I was studying to be a rabbi, but then I discovered girls. So I was in school yeshiva, which means the city the whole day. And afterwards I'd go to the library, which was only a few blocks down. And I'm the only guy I've ever met or talked to who's actually read the Encyclopedia Britannica cover to cover. I am the corniest, most boring guy at a party. When did you feel like you were able to really monetize the artistic gift that you were developing? I will take it more either in the country globally like when did that start to happen?

You said, oh, this is more than just weekend parties and yeah. And 19 even during college. I went to the state university, um, upstate New York. Took out my own bank loan paid for it myself and all that. So afternoons, I'd be the lifeguard at the pines hotel. Up in the Catskill mountains, otherwise called the Jewish mountains. Literally.

Cause every weekend you'd have Jay Lewis there and like all these guys, Milton Burrell. And so I worked right after I'd finished classes and I'd go make some more money. And on the weekends, the Wicked, not Wicked Lester, but what was it called? Bullfrog Beer. That was the college band and we played covers and some of my original songs, which by then I learned how to write my own songs. Not very good. Two of them or so wound up being kiss songs. And during one weekend, I'd make more money with the band, having fun with the chicks and the attention and all that, then I would the whole week working. It started to make more financial sense. Yes, I had more fun. And then I graduated

1972 from the City University at Richmond College and started teaching sixth grade in Spanish Harlem. Segway to being the assistant to the editor of Vogue magazine, assistant to the director of the Puerto Rican Interagency Council, a government funded research and demonstration project where I saved $23,000 by the time I was 23 years of age. I lived at home, makes more sense. You wanna meet and shake up, go to the holiday and otherwise. Save your money. Yeah.

Save your money. Lived at home when I didn't need to spend money. But of course I contributed a little bit. And we, I met another guy who shared the love And we I met another guy who shared the love of English music, which is really American music anglicize. We were anglophiles, the Beatles and the Stones and Zeppelin and you know, all that. And made our own pastiche, our own thing, like they did their own thing of American music and by 1973 we got signed to Casablanca Records a new record label. How old were you this time

roughly? 23. Okay. 22. And this wasn't, was this called Kiss at the time or no? Yes, it was, we became Kiss. And you're doing, you got signed, but how big were the venues where you were playing before you got signed? We played from nothing to everything. Really? Yes, we played New Year's Eve, fourth on the bill

at the Academy of Music in New York City, 1973, 74. And two months after that, the first album came out. We were fourth on the bill, Kiss, Teenage Lust, which was a local band, Iggy Pop, and Blue Oyster Cult. And on the first, by the third song, I'm Spitting Fire, if we're full makeup, my hair catches fire, and we're on the covers of all the magazines and everything. New band out of hell fire and you know all this kind of stuff. I was just glad to be alive. But within a year and a half of coming out before MTV, before cell

phones, we had still rotary calls. Superman was still going into that booth and changing. Of course, people can't see him taking off his pants because he was in a phone booth. While all this was happening, within a year and a half, we're headlining Anaheim Stadium in Los Angeles. Wow. Yeah. Just that overnight thing. We had no hit singles, nothing.

Really? Yes. It became what the Germans called Zeitgeist, the water cooler conversation. The way you spread your brand in those days were rock magazines, Circus and Raves and all these colorful magazines that had posters. We were always on the cover because the rest of the band is just boring. Yeah, they're not visual so our brand and people's you know the fans we started selling out multiple days in arenas before we even had a gold record and

just asked backwards so you guys developed a brand almost before you developed the music that That's right. It's like you were like, let's create the image of us. Let's create the persona. You're giving us too much credit. We didn't know anything. You weren't thinking about it. No.

But that's what happened. You were just rock and roll gypsies. Right. You were glad you didn't have to do nine to five. Right. And be in the same cubicle doing the same thing. That's interesting. Did you intentionally think about let's be so different so that people pay attention?

Or were you just like, let's have fun and just be playful? Or how did this character develop? None of that. Scientists either call it a singularity or an anomaly. We were rehearsing doing these songs that Paul Stanley and I wrote Stanley Eisen. Oh, I said murder. And I started writing and then ace fraile contributed a song or two. And as we're, you know, this kind of sounds pretty good.

And we had Peter Chris on drums and he, everybody could sing, everybody could play. And then instead of doing a market analysis or anything, I recall clearly, because I never got high or drunk, one of us, and I can't tell you who, said let's go down to Woolworth's, which was like a department stop, and it was around Halloween, I believe, and they had a lot of gimmicky things like plastic ice cubes with fake flies in the middle that you could stick in your girlfriend's strings. So she's, you know, or whoopee cushions. You know, the whoopee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sit on it and part. Yeah. Yeah. And we went down there and said, let's buy clown makeup. And we literally almost there and said, let's buy clown makeup. And we literally, almost like our hands were being directed, bought Steins, clown white,

Steins, clown black, black stick. Paul bought red lipstick, a few other things. And we went up to the rat- infested loft where we rehearsed and found ourselves hypnotically looking in the mirror and putting on makeup without anybody telling anybody what to do or what to think or do. It just happened. It sounds suspicious.

And then when we looked around the room, we were fascinated by, wow, that kind of... That kind of cool. Kind of different, wow, that kind of... That kind of school. Kind of different. Yeah, different kind of cool. So much so that, and because I'm kind of a, make a list, check it twice, find out I'm that kind of a guy,

worked in offices all my life, there was no manager. So I was calling local gigs clubs to try to get us and to book ourselves in for, I don't know, And we were in Madison Square Garden. And then the second show was at The Daisy in Amityville, where they had John Deere, and they had a show called The Daisy. And they were playing a show called The Daisy. And they were playing a show called The Daisy. And they were playing a show called The Daisy. And they were playing a show called The Daisy. and Square Garden. And then the second show was at the daisy in Amityville where they

had Jaws and all that and the Amity v'Harr and all that in Long Island. And shortly thereafter we got signed. We barely played any shows. That's crazy to think about. And then a year and a half later, you're selling out arenas. Breaking so much so that within two years of that, we're breaking the Beatles record in Japan and playing five days, I think, at the largest arena, Budokan. And before bands were playing stadiums, we're doing multiple days in Australia in stadiums. 1980, 1980. Where do you think you'd be if you guys didn't put makeup on that first day?

You mean if I wasn't in a band or would Kiss have done as well without the makeup? Without the makeup. Like if you guys didn't go to that store and say, hey let's start putting a makeup on, where do you think the band would be if you never did it like that? But you just said, we're going to go out there and play and wear cool, you know, jeans and look like rock stars, but not put on the makeup or the jeans is so boring. If I'd have to, if I'd have to say. Not as big really you could ask the Beatles what

would you have gotten as far with the same songs and everything if you didn't have the matching haircuts hmm it's always pieces of the puzzle that's how fit that make the hole bigger than the sum of its parts which are fancy words that says all of it helps. It did yeah. And if you take like a house of cards if you take any one of those it's just one card maybe all of it comes down. Interesting. It's so interesting to think about. I get paid a lot of money for this kind of stuff. Yeah, that's fascinating. I'm kind of a big deal. I know, I know you are.

Now, when did you, was there ever a moment in your career where you said early on where you said, I'm actually gonna use this, this is working. Wearing the makeup, putting on the outfits in this way, it's working, I'm gonna make it a character, I'm gonna make it an alter ego or? I was always aware that character was not the right thing.

It's persona. Persona, not alter ego or? Alter ego, and by the way, I know people get so upset when I keep bringing up the Jew stuff, but the idea of the alter ego was created by them also. All the superheroes, Superman, yes, Batman, the Hulk, fantastic, were all created by Jews who dress British, think Yiddish. The idea of the weak man and the secret super man, the Ubermensch, well Well that's Nietzsche.

And all created by disenfranchised people who never felt powerful. So the superhero was created by those guys who were never lifting weights, couldn't dribble a basketball, but they owned the teams. Yeah, or they built the IP or whatever it might be. Yeah. Did you so did you think about building the persona or the alter ego as you were developing the band then? No, it happened very quickly and you react to market the smart people react to the market. And immediately, we didn't think about it. But fans started to make homegrown t shirts. Oh,

they want t shirt. Let's make t-shirts and they wanted oh we were aware that if you were a I don't know a Joe Cocker fan or somebody you didn't necessarily want to look like Joe and chose a fantastic artist. It was music. And somehow we didn't plan it. We wanted to be unique and all that's true, but we didn't quite understand the cultural significance of the idea that you may not be able to be in kiss, but you can feel like it. How many more tennis rackets did we sell

because people bought those and put on kiss makeup and pretended when they were 13 that they were in a band. Because just as soon as you, and I'll show you photos of Lenny Kravitz when he was 13 like all down the line these people going what I did he was kicked out of school for at 13 coming to school dressed like that that's interesting but you wouldn't be kicked out of school for coming to school dressed like George Harrison right right yeah but that's not cool no it is cool but it doesn't But that's not cool. No, it is cool, but it doesn't.

Doesn't get attention. There's nothing negative I can say about the Beatles, but market research, market research is a strange thing. It makes assessments based on the way things actually are. Yeah. So Mount Rushmore, you've heard of it. Could you tell me who the four faces are? Yes. I've been there. I mean, yeah, you've been there and you still don't. Washington. Yeah. It bears noting that market research says the four kiss faces are more well known on the entire

planet than Mount Rushmore. That's great. That's great. You can go to Africa and as soon as they see one of the four faces, they say it's Kiss. If you show them one of Mount Rushmore's faces, they wouldn't know what it was. That's astonishing, isn't it? It is. Did you feel like you were becoming a different person when you would step on stage in that persona? becoming a different person when you would step on stage in that in that persona and what did that feeling what was that a feeling experience like for you on stage in that persona versus Gene Simmons in life offstage? I was a regular normal guy with regular appetites of you know nothing out of the ordinary and

never veered towards self-destructive behavior. Never. I'm curious about how you started to brand yourself even bigger because Kiss became something much bigger than a band. You know after the first few years it was big obviously but for decades you elevated it to... I can't say you it's not fair to Paul the band elevated itself to another level because sometimes of course an idea will come from left field and they go why don't you yeah you know you're right we should be doing yeah yeah so no matter who you are how did you how did you all decide to continue to elevate the brand or or maximize especially in light of the fact that times change tastes change and

different generations come into it cool is a moving target yeah so I give ourselves kudos to be able to be flexible and move around and do that stuff as hair metal hair metal bands came in thrash came in new romance came like all through all the different things. So we started co branding like Hello Kitty. It's one of the largest brands on the planet for young girls for little girls. So Kiss Hello Kitty had about 1500 co licenses everything. That's amazing from training bras to tissue paper to potato chips, you name it. And then we co branded with Family Guy and Archie. We had Kiss Archie Comics and Astro Boy from Japan.

Just a lot of. What was the biggest licensing deal that Kiss did? Kiss. Beyond the band, what was the biggest co-branded or licensing deal? Oh, co-branded. Or deal beyond. Yeah, old Kitty would probably be the biggest. Yeah, because they were endless.

And then they changed CEOs. Actually, the CEO flew into L.A. We had dinner and he and I are sitting next to each other. We're talking about the future. OK, we're going to ramp up this clearly working and everything. And he said, as soon as I get back to Japan on Monday, it was the weekend coming up, I'm gonna draw up papers

and we're gonna do some big, big, big stuff. And then he passed away. And the new CEO just didn't see it. That's a bummer. Where is the biggest revenue come from these days then with the brand? Is it licensing? Is it still royalties? Is it still music? All of it music less because entire generations of fans don't pay for music. They download and file share. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show.

I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show. She's co-writing a song right now with the writer who wrote,

do you believe in love, you know, for sure. What a small world. Yeah, it just, and she's- No, small world, that's a Disneyland. It's a what? It's a small world, that's a Disneyland. It's a small world after all. As a matter of fact, I recorded When You Wish Upon a Star

for my solo record because of how emotionally Jiminy Cricket affected my life. I thought when that little insect in the movie goes, Gene, when you wish upon, I thought he was singing to me. I was 12. I went out there like in a religious epiphany, I can do great things, because Jiminy, your dreams come true.

I can do it. And that's why I like, if you're not a bad guy, that's why I like guys like you, because sometimes some place in Wisconsin there's somebody who can who possibly might do great things and the only thing holding himself back is himself and if you can just light that little fire in the belly that you know that that puts the light on they'll do amazing things. Did you ever doubt yourself?

No. Really? I doubt yourself? No. Really? I couldn't afford it. So you never had any insecurity or self-doubt? Oh, hell no. But I'm delusional. I am aware of it. I know that I'm not the best looking guy in the world or the smartest or anything, but

I will walk into any room and I will walk out with your girlfriend. There's no doubt in my mind. And part and parcel of that has to do with a mindset that's really important that I was only able to recognize many years later. You're a tightrope walker. And various ideas and ideals can come into your mind before you walk that tightrope, you might say, a lot of people who try to walk this tightrope, there's a decent chance that like, oh, and you're here, you're hearing and thinking what you're saying. So all the negativity is

contributing to the chances of you failing. And what do all great champions do? They psych themselves up. I'm going to get out there and I'm going to do this and who's listening? You're listening. I'm going to win it. I am the champion. I am the greatest. I heard Muhammad Ali doing that, Cassius Clay at that point. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word.

I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word.

I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. I'm not a man of the word. Why not? Why not set greatness in front of you and then work towards achieving it? Yeah, that's true. So I've spent time with Mike Tyson and I hope he considers me a friend, I consider him a friend. And when you listen to Mike's story, there's no logical reason in the world

why he would become the most dangerous man who's ever been in the ring. Nobody, yes, I know Foreman and everybody else. He's too short, his arms aren't long. He fucks like, you know, he hates it when people do that thing. All the negatives you can imagine except his unwavering belief in himself and the will to win. The will. Doctors still talk

about people who aren't in deathbed and they can't explain why a week later they walk up and walk out the hospital live another 10 years except for the will to win. And there are other people who drop dead when they just give up. Yeah. How did you how did you prepare your mind then or psych yourself up? There's no preparation. When you go on stage though, did you prepare or no? Just the plane doors open. Go.

What do you got to lose? In America, you cannot fail. You can't fail. If you lose all your money, you declare chapter seven or chapter 11 and you can start all over again. And when that first chick said, would you like to go out with me? She says, no, too many fish in the sea. This tall wants short wants fat wants to just keep swaying that bat.

You'll hit it. No means nothing. That's a good mindset. Well, what choice have you got? Yeah. Soon as you say no, as soon as you say, well, I guess I'll give up. it. No means nothing. That's good mindset. Well, what choice have you got? Yeah. Soon as you say no, as soon as you say, well, I guess I'll give up your dog. Why do you think so many

people though live in self doubt or insecurity and don't go for their dreams? There's no reason for it. But why do you think so many people live in that space? Well, it's safer. Your people are lemmings because it's safer in numbers. You know, you don't want to be that one person who said, but that's what leaders are. The leaders are the ones, you know, most people have a problem getting up on stage and speaking their mind because you will be judged. People don't like to be judged. Get over it. It's just like, it doesn't matter. Like like what not everybody likes Jesus either

Did you ever care about being judged or being not liked no, I think too much of myself You think highly of yourself it doesn't they're not qualified to have an opinion on Yours truly. I'm qualified. I know where I've been what I I'm doing, what my dreams are, what I'm willing to work at. Anybody's other opinion is an opinion at first glance. Why do you think so many people care about other people's opinions? Because you don't, it sounds like. But why do you think so many of the world? Or precisely, I could give a fuck.

Right. But why do so many people care about others? It's safer. I mean, I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going

to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going to be a leader. You're not going millions of dollars. Some of them are not very bright people, but they have this presence. If you take a look at the most powerful people in history, good

and bad. They weren't super tall. They were usually pretty short guys. They had a presence. Excuse me, but they had a presence. Excuse me? But they had a presence. Yeah. Some illogical belief in themselves. Yeah. Whether it's Caesar or Hitler or Napoleon,

if they have no right to have this, you know, and some of them are real bad guys, small people with, but on the inside giants, giant bad guys and giant good guys. I'm curious with all the, you know, experience, the travel, the people you've met, who in your mind is one of the greatest musicians or the greatest leaders in the world that you've met or seen? Let's talk keep it in the music world who's in the top in the music world that you're like man that guy or that gal's got it or that group has got it beyond yourself and Kiss who else who've you seen or met

or watched that you're like wow they really have it. Well, clearly the Beatles are beyond, above and beyond anything that anybody's seen in music over 200 years, easily, not since the Renaissance, which is how you say it, not the Renaissance. You have to understand they only existed seven years and they came from a place that was a pool filled with liver, liver pool, where nothing ever happened, high unemployment rate, no experience, no resume, no nothing. And yet, I want to hold your hand. What she loves you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that last chord, that minor ninth is as sophisticated a chord, if you know about music. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That thing is almost like a jazz chord unheard of in rock music. And okay, look, I'm going to give you something you'll be able to understand. Satisfaction is one of the great songs. It takes about 40 minutes, 40 seconds to get to the first thing. I can't get no

The first thing, I can't get no. Yeah. Or anything. Sunshine of your love. I did it backwards. It's a bump bump bump bump. Takes about 50 seconds to get. I've been waiting so long and all that on and on and on. The Beatles.

I just wrote a new song. What does it call? It's called help. How's it go? It goes like this. Help! I need somebody help! Not even an introduction, nothing. Got another one for you. What is it called? It's called Yesterday. How's it go? It goes like this. Yesterday I got... I got another one for you. It's called Michelle. How's it go? Michelle. Got another one for you. It's called Hey Jude. Not only does it be begin with Hey Jude, the word Hey. It's before the music before the music. Hey, dude. And then the chords come in. Those are what's called perfect songs. Not only that, but. The title of the song is the first word of the song. It's the most memorable song. And it's the last word in the song. Yesterday,

last song, because I believe in yesterday. Who writes songs like that? It's undeniable they're writing them. McCartney especially by far is the most successful songwriter in all of recorded history. There have been over a thousand different artists who've recorded just yesterday. Did you get to spend some time with them? With Ringo. What was that like? Just yesterday. Did you get to spend some time with them. With Ringo. What was that like.

Well, there are 2 stories in the shared days used to have these disco roller skating parties world celebrities will go on I I didn't care. I mean I appreciate you're lucky to be a celebrity but oh my God, it's Ursula Andras. I didn't care. I don't mean to be dismissive. Just, oh, there's that person from that commercial TV show. And I'm sitting, because I didn't, you know,

Jews on roller skates is hilarious. So I didn't, I just sat on the sidelines watching them, sat on top of the bowling, anyway, on the side with my legs going up and down. I was a little kid. I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid.

And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid.

And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And I was a little kid. And they came up and one's gonna, oh, I'm a big fan of yours. They're gonna speak with an English accent. Oh, it's okay, sure. Doing an autograph.

And then I look up and in back of them, Ringo Starr starts coming towards them. Oh, and I'm, you know. And you're big at this time. You're like Kiss is massive at this time. Oh, massive. But the Beatles, I couldn't shine their shoes. So Ringo comes up, puts his hand, puts his arms around him

and he says, I hope me boys aren't thinking, Ringo's sons are asking me for an autograph. Wow. To slap their little putz faces and said how dare you talk to me your father's a beetle. It happened again we were playing oh one of the time we were having a party up in the Hollywood Hills and Ringo had a LA manager at that time a guy named Eric Gardner manager at that time, a guy named Eric Gardner. And Shannon, my wifey and I are saying, I'm eating salads. I hate salads.

And I'm eating salads. And Ringo's coming up to say hello. And he sent me a birthday. He said, oh, I'm at the birthday, Gene. If you can't tell me, you can't say how much that means to me. And I'm eating salads. So I give him the thing. And he comes up to me.

And I'm much bigger than he is. So I didn't know what to do. So I picked him up and his feet are dang, wrinkles about five, six, five, I don't know, or maybe five, six, two. So I picked him up, you know, because I wanted to hold him. I don't know what else to do. I didn't want to shake his head.

I'm excited. More means more. And I'm smiling. I didn't even remember what I'm talking about. And he said, well, did you put me down? So I put him down and he walked off. All right. And I'm smiling, looking at challenge. He goes, you got Godzilla. Oh, my gosh. Like salad in your teeth.

Like a big thing sticking out. I'm like his face is right here. And yeah, just get over yourself no matter who you are. If you're the pope, I know you got to poop just like I do. Right. Nobody's I don't have that hierarchy thing. So I've met everybody from his holiness to Dalai Lama to Presidents Clinton and Bush and everything. And they've achieved greatness in their field, but we all fart. What have you learned about fame that you wish everyone knew? If you become famous, not always, but by and large makes a good living. The rest is how you can handle

it or not. Because there are, I would say lots of famous people, rappers, a lot of rappers who surround themselves with yes men and yes women. A posse so that and I admire rap don't misunderstand so that when you go someplace you have that cushion of support so it says publicly I am somebody. Whereas if you didn't have the fame they they wouldn't hang out. They're parasites and vampires. They're only around you because you have money and favor. And they get free booze and free chicks and free all that stuff. They're using you. You're using them also to say, look, I'm somebody.

So why do rappers, a lot of rappers, some sports guys, why do they go to clubs with a group? To advertise that there's somebody. I won't play that game. I drive here myself, I wipe my own ass. You have no pasta, yeah, you came alone here. No, I'm just happy I can earn a living, a good living. And the rest doesn't mean anything. I mean, you've made a lot of money though at this point.

What's a lot? Made a lot more, 99% more than most people in America probably, right? Like the amount of money you've made. I would say that's true. 99% more, yeah. So you've made a lot. What number is a lot?

Because it's all relative. Of course. What is driving you at this season of your life? To make more money. What's driving you to make more money when you have made 99% more than most people? As an athlete yourself, if you've broken the, if you're the fastest human being on two legs, and after all the cameras are out and the chicks are gone and the awards are gone and the money people, you're just there by yourself, Do you wake up at the crack of dawn the next day and try to break your own record?

Yeah. Of course! That's what made you a champion in the first place. So I'm gonna be 76, I'm 75 now. I don't know about you, but the race is closer to being over than the beginning. I don't know about you, but when it looks like the race line, the finish line is coming, I'm going to be a little bit closer to being over than the beginning. I don't know about you, but when it looks like the race line, the finish line is coming, I run faster. Don't you?

Yeah, to finish. Finish strong. Yeah. What are you going to do? Just or sit back and watch somebody else's ballgame as they go by now that's if you appreciate life if you love life man-o-man I'm glad every day I can have a hot futz Sunday and a good back rub a lap dance every once in a while and then you die that's all yeah gee this has been really powerful we've been going for a while now a lot of fascinating stories I want to I want wanna close with one final question with you. Before I ask the question, I want people to follow you, Gene Simmons on Instagram.

Oh, I hate that. Where should we go follow you? GeneSimmons.com. You can do Instagram, but my kids take care of that. I never go on there. 30 seconds of somebody watching, 30 seconds of somebody showing

how they can pick their nose. So GeneSimmons.com has got all your information because you're doing the solo tour, you got different stuff, different businesses, projects. Company and restaurant chains and a lot of stuff. Crushing it still. You're finishing. You're going strong.

Go start strong and finish strong. This is a bit fascinating, interesting, but I have one final question for you and that's what's your definition of greatness? You will never reach greatness. You shouldn't think of it that way. The hunt is always what it should be about, not the kill. Once you kill something or once you finish the, you know, it's fine, but it's fleeting. But when your blood's pumping, your heart's pumping, and it's always about the hunt, that's what life is about. And I'd like to think the very last breath I take is going

to be like, yeah, been there done that. In fact, I know what it's gonna say on my tombstone. Thank you and good night. Because I would imagine to lots of tombstones, I wish I coulda, woulda, shoulda, coulda and all that stuff. No regrets. Kissed a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man.

I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man.

I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. I was a good man. In fact, wouldn't it be great if all of humanity, and there's about 8 billion of us before we drop dead, if we could make the world just this much better times 8 billion, imagine

the profound difference it would make. You don't have to give everything away, just little bits. Gene, thanks for the fascinating conversation. you wanna make it flow, you wanna feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is gonna help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has

told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.